Libertarian History/Philosophy

Surveys Say: America Still Trending Libertarian

The death of "the libertarian moment" is greatly exaggerated.

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Yesterday, The Washington Post's David Weigel (a former Reason staffer, btw) gazed upon Rand Paul's flagging presidential campaign and asked whether "the libertarian moment" was over

Above is a chart created by David Bier for the Foundation for Economic Education (FEE). Published July 2, 2015, it tracks a number of trends that support the notion that "America is not getting more liberal—it's getting more libertarian." 

Reason.com

It's embedded in a post by the Cato Insitute's David Boaz, who's also the author of The Libertarian Mind. He's quoted in the Weigel story and writes at Cato's blog:

We shouldn't judge freedom by what politicians and voters are doing in any particular year. We live in a world where we have extended the promises of the Declaration of Independence to more people – gay people can get married! – where we have all the knowledge in the history of the world in our pockets, where politicians and police are increasingly monitored, where unregulated or lightly regulated technologies are challenging comfortable monopolies….

If we move beyond the United States to the world, it's pretty clear that the large trends in the world – not without counter-trends – are toward human rights, women's rights, gay rights, democratic governance, and freer markets. If we're not quite in a libertarian moment, we're in a libertarianish era.

Read the whole piece here.

In February, Reason TV interviewed David Boaz about the libertarian movement and contemporary politics. Click below to watch and go here for a transcript.

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  1. I don’t know what to believe anymore. #LibertarianMoment

  2. What’s the difference between optimism and insanity?

    Insanity can be medicated.

    1. Alternate joke: “I’m getting better!”

      1. You’re not foolin’ anyone!

    2. I think it was Einstein who said that insanity is writing over and over again on the move towards more liberty and each time expecting a different libertarian moment.

  3. The MoarFreeShitarians laugh at the Libertarian Moment. It was so quick no one noticed. Meanwhile, the state advances everywhere.

  4. Winston hardest hit.

      1. You Know Who Else was willing to be delusional to annoy someone they hated?

        1. Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius?

  5. The people want the government out of their lives… and then vote for politicians who do the exact opposite.

    So basically, the voters are idiots. This isn’t even a case of “fool me once… fool me twice…” This is a case of “fool me since I was 18 and every 2 years until I die”.

    1. Those same politicians then go and confiscate by force absurd amounts of private property to pay for all the free shit. But I guess that doesn’t count.

      1. As long as people aren’t taught Say’s Law (you must produce in order to consume), they will continue to think that government is magic and can make stuff from nothing.

        If the person doesn’t realize that you must produce in order to consume, they are economically illiterate. If the person does realize that and still wants the free stuff, they are morally reprehensible.

        1. I think most of the Free Shit Brigade does realize that and still wants the free stuff.

          1. I’m of the opinion that the majority are true believers in government. If you told them that you had to produce in order to consume, they’d think that government could produce. Stupidity is almost always the simplest explanation.

            1. They do seem attached to the odd idea that government is productive.

          2. The Free Shit Brigade has 80 years experience that somebody, somewhere, somehow produces and delivers their free shit, so there is no evidence to change their minds.

        2. I think Say’s law says more like “someone must produce in order for anyone to consume”.

          The idiocy of the left isn’t so much that they think free stuff magically appears (though a lot of the voters seem to think so, I guess), but that you can actually sustain a society based on redistribution of wealth by force.

          1. No, it was created by TEH RICH PPLZ!!!! who are hoarding their profits just so they can pay burger flippers minimum wage.

          2. “The idiocy of the left isn’t so much that they think free stuff magically appears ”

            I used to think this, but a couple of weeks back during the Greek meltdown, my local radical left wing radio station was pushing this idea they were calling “GMI” – a Guaranteed Minimum Income.

            The logic is that the “Economy” produces all this great stuff, and it is deeply unjust that only rich people get to have that stuff, and everybody else gets left out *for no reason.*

            This was their logic for why it was so unfair that Greece wasn’t simply being *given* all the money it “needs.”

            1. That’s still redistribution. They don’t think it comes from nowhere. They just think the Germans need to pay up or something. There is loads of other economic stupidity in there, but they know the money comes from someone being productive somewhere.

              I think I would take a GMI over a complicated welfare state.

              1. I suppose what struck me was this insistence that “the economy” is what produces, not people, and that anyone occupying the airspace of said economy is “part of it” and deserves their “fair share” of it.

                But abstractions aside, I would agree that a basic GMI would be preferable to what we have now.

                1. I see what you mean. It’s as if they think that there is a bunch of wealth floating around in “the economy” and rich people are just rich because they managed to grab more of it before other people could.

                  The odd think in my experience is that you can explain to people that wealth is created by people, isn’t fixed, etc. and they get it an accept it, but then go right back to talking about it in the same strange ways.

          3. Smarter people than I explaining Say’s Law.

            https://mises.org/library/says-law-context

            1. Looks interesting. I’ll have to give it a good read.

    2. The people want the government out of their lives…

      For the most part, this is true. However, most people are reluctant to allow other people to live as freely as they would like to be because they assume others will take advantage of that freedom (Progressives are most guilty of this) and do things they don’t like. So, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

      1. And then they think they’re Spock…

        What they fail to understand when they paint themselves as the hero in the story is that all the heroes who sacrificed themselves using a form of that argument all did it voluntarily and selflessly. It’s charity when you give from your own production; it’s theft when you give from your neighbor’s.

        1. Shut up and pay your fair share, kulak!

      2. The people want the government out of their lives…

        Nope.

        People don’t want the government interfering with their choices or decisions, but they still want government support.

        They want to do what they want to do, whether it’s sitting on their sofa masturbating all day and receiving a “disability” payment, or it’s starting and growing a business. But, then, they want government to “support” them (give them free shit like public education, contracts and/or subsidies). Even productive people like government as long as they’re getting a piece. The rare person is the one who can see the negative consequences to the free shit dilemma. Most people just don’t want other people getting more free shit than they do themselves, and they don’t want to pay for other people’s free shit (while they want their free shit paid for).

        So, they want to be permanent children. Nick is delusion on this topic.

        1. sitting on their sofa masturbating all day and receiving a “disability” payment

          Wait…that’s an option?!?

          1. Yes, but mind the chafing.

        2. The rare person is the one who can see the negative consequences to the free shit dilemma.

          Our job is to explain it to them; this allows the question to become a moral one. Perhaps they will develop enough guilt to rethink their position.

          At the very least we can separate “the chaff from the wheat” as it were. Instead of having masses of stupid people, we can recognize the good ones and evil ones. Then socially stigmatize the evil ones.

          1. Then socially stigmatize the evil ones.

            That only works if they are in the minority.

            1. Not always. You can stigmatize the majority.

              Would you trade with someone who is outspoken advocate of theft (if you had any other choice)?

              1. Would you trade with someone who is outspoken advocate of theft (if you had any other choice)?

                I’m a ‘commerce with all, alliances with none’ type of guy. Nevertheless, to me at least, stigma implies a certain level of social power.

                1. Let me rephrase, would you trade with people who admit they send men with guns to take your stuff? I wouldn’t, they’d use their profit to steal from me.

                  Jerks.

    3. Do you think randomly selected voters, had they taken office themselves, wouldn’t’ve produced the same results?

  6. OK, are you just trolling the commentariat at this point?

    Four individual graphs:
    -Guns
    -Marijuana
    -Gay Rights
    -Immigration

    Truly pot, ass sex and Mexicans is what defines a Libertarian moment.

    1. We’ll always have the sodomy. [sad music]

      1. I’m pretty sure th original lyrics to Billy Joel’s “Honesty were:
        Sodomy
        Is such a funny word
        But what I’d like to do
        To you

    2. I don’t really understand the MJ thing. I can’t buy a fucking Sudafed without filling out the equivalent of an visa application. I’m calling that a push

      1. Also, it costs billions of dollars to get new drugs approved by the FDA and the process can take up to 15 years. But slightly more of us are ok with pot being legal! Libertarian moment!

        1. Slightly more = majority

          Seriously, stop doing that.

        2. Why not be happy about a few positive things? Is there some prize for being gloomy and depressing that I don’t know about?
          I think we all know that libertopia isn’t about to happen. So make the most of what you’ve got, I say. Not that more pot and ass sex is a good substitute for more substantive increases in personal freedom, but at least not everything is moving in completely the wrong direction.

          1. It’s called being a realist.

            1. Not really.

            2. No. Not really. The positive trends are part of reality too. I’m not saying ignore all the bad stuff. But there is nothing wrong with being happy about the good stuff sometimes.

              I hate the current political climate as much as anyone. But we do live in a world where more people are better off and in many ways freer than ever has been the case.

              1. The welfare state has never been larger. The regulation state has never been larger. The response? You might as well lay back and enjoy it.

          2. IMO, the fact that libertarians see the improvements on the social issues and think LIBERTARIAN MOMENT says something significant about libertarians. While technology and the general intellectual inventiveness of mankind has provided wonderful benefits to us in the past couple centuries, there’s a realistic chance that those circumstances maybe used to limit freedom very shorty. The NSA and the various corporations providing data to it? Snowdon’s revelations? The suggestion to eliminate actual currency and use only government issued electronic credits?

            There’s a real threat to economic freedom brewing and technology may be used against us.

            Yeah, I’m delighted we’ve made progress on the social side – but it is a sideshow to the big event. Economics is the nuclear weapon of tools and we are definitely loosing on that front.

            1. losing.

            2. I’d agree that “libertarian moment” oversells it a bit. But Reason needs to sell magazines (or ads now, I guess). Lots of things are going in the wrong direction. All the more reason to find something to be happy about.

              1. I have lots of things to be happy about in my personal life and those really are the focus of my daily life. I’m not getting any happiness out of being a libertarian and don’t think it’s really possible. Laughing about it is the only remedy.

                But good luck to you.

                1. I’m late getting back to this debate but this is exactly my sentiment too. I also have things to be happy about, politics is not one of them, and I also try to laugh about it. Yeah I’m cynical, but I don’t let it run my life.

                  1. Frankly, I’m somewhat suspicious of people who look for fulfillment from politics. It’s not your friend.

      2. Not putting people in rape cages and not empowering violent cartels is far from a fucking push. We get it: you really enjoy posing as the ‘cynical skeptic’.

        I can come up with better arguments against this article, but yours are just nauseating.

        1. I can come up with better arguments against this article, but yours are just nauseating.

          Spare the douche level theatrics and come up with some then

      3. But Sudafed hasn’t gone back to being a prescription-only drug, as it was when I was a child, so still ahead on that.

        1. I had to sign a logbook to buy iodine antiseptic. WTF.

    3. Guns: 90 percent allegedly support common sense gun laws.
      MJ: Illegal for recreational use in 48 states.
      Gay Rights: How many States legalized gay marriage through the legislative or initiative process? You know, the parts of government most sensitive to the public mood? How many were forced to through the courts?
      Immigration: Donald is polling at 25 percent, mainly because he made a bunch of inaccurate and hateful comments about Mexican Immigrants (legal or otherwise). Enough said.

      Something, something, statistics and lies.

      Oh, and I don’t see anything suggesting the public is serious about reigning in spending on entitlements or the military.

      1. Oh, and I don’t see anything suggesting the public is serious about reigning in spending on entitlements or the military.

        You expect the Free Shit brigade to give up their free shit and their war porn? What kind of monster are you?

      2. We’ve had “common sense gun laws” for a long time now. Guns still aren’t banned and that still seems very unlikely to happen.
        MJ is legal in 4 states now (or will be soon). Alaska and Oregon. Things keep moving in a positive direction there. And a significant shift in public opinion does seem to be happening there.
        Whatever arguments exist about gay marriage, people have really shifted attitudes about gays in the past few decades in huge ways. The gay marriage thing is in a lot of ways a huge distraction in the advances of gay rights that most of us can agree are good. A lot more has happened there than marriage, which really isn’t a very specifically libertarian issue at all.
        Immigration, I don’t know what to say. I doubt anything will change significantly there one way or the other.

        As I often say, I have little hope that we are moving toward being a very libertarian society politically. But that doesn’t mean that some things are positive and worth being happy about.

        1. MJ is legal in 4 states now

          The only reason this is the case is because our betters have decided the public is no longer buying their BS about it being “unsafe”. It has nothing to do with liberty.

          1. Not locking people up or stealing their stuff for doing nothing wrong is an increase in liberty, whatever the reasons for the change. And seeing how the legalization has all bee through ballot initiatives, I think there may be more to it than our “betters” throwing us a bone.

            1. Not locking people up or stealing their stuff for doing nothing wrong is an increase in liberty

              Sure it is, but for every substance that is being “legalized” it’s easy can find at least 2 or 3 being regulated or banned. Bath salts or CO2 anyone?

    4. Yeah, I really don’t see what Nick’s on about when he talks about this so-called libertarian moment. Because things are marginally better in a few areas (and in the case of pot can all be reversed if a dedicated prohibitionist like Christie gets into the W.H.) that somehow makes up for the mountain of shit that’s getting worse.

      Hell, even when things get marginally “better” they’re not really a net increase in liberty. For instance, gays can get married… and bakers or florists who don’t want to serve gay weddings can be forced to against their will by the government. And this is supposed to be a libertarian moment how? At best it’s a wash.

      1. Does nick say that it makes up for all the bad stuff that still happens?

  7. If the libertarian moment isn’t predicted can it happen?

    1. NOBODY expects the Libertarian Moment! Our chief weapon is surprise…surprise and fear…fear and surprise…. Our two weapons are fear and surprise…and ruthless efficiency…. Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency…and an almost fanatical devotion to Ayn Rand…. Our *four*…no… *Amongst* our weapons…. Amongst our weaponry…are such elements as fear, surprise…. I’ll come in again.

      1. Does anybody NEED 3 or 4 weapons?

        1. especially when children are starving

          1. So, if I buy more will more kids starve?

          2. Cardinal Fang! Bring out….THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!

            *glares at lap83*

            1. +42 soft cushions

  8. Crony capitalist healthcare with broad support, a fucking socialist about to be the democratic nominee and you think we’re trending libertarian? Maybe a portion of the right wing. These issues can be cherry picked to make the argument go either way.

    1. I doubt Bernie has a better chance at Dem nominee than Trump.

  9. In spite of my grim outlook I will concede that we are freer in many ways today than probably at any time in the recent past. I think it is because of the vast amounts of wealth we have created. Wealth does empower people. The more of it you have the less beholden to others you are.

    When people start spouting the politics of envy, how we need to do with less, what I hear is someone who wants to put us in chains.

    1. Being able to bear the costs for regulating the air we exhale is true freedom

    2. I would say we (humanity) are more free than any time in the distant past. Using God Emperors as my metric. But America was a much more free place in the past vis a vis general liberty, with some aberrations like prohibition thrown in. Prohibition which now has broad bipartisan support and no longer even requires a constitutional amendment. Think about that for a moment.

      1. Also, huge aberrations for minorities should never be overlooked as well. I certainly wouldn’t want to say everyone is less free to a black man who was an adult pre sixties.

        1. “huge aberrations for minorities should never be overlooked as well.”

          This is hugely important, I think.

          The radical left wing radio station I mentioned above also plays a daily afternoon show that’s essentially 2 hours of Black Nationalist ranting.

          The ranting is surprisingly libertarian-themed, in the sense that they tend to be pissed off about all the same things libertarians are. They just tend to replace “white supremacy” for “government” as the object of their rage, and they don’t tend to see things as “government vs. business” but as “white power vs. us.”

          All they *really* want, in the end, is the freedom to live their lives and run their businesses without interference, but they do not trust even the Democrats, let alone Republicans and Libertarians, whom they see as simply big fat liars and racists.

          When they hear white people talking about “freedom,” they don’t automatically assume that includes them, and when they hear libertarians’ nostalgia for the “freedom” of the nineteenth century, they think to themselves “that doesn’t look so attractive to me.”

          Unfortunately, the movement of government over the past century has been to make *less* freedom for white people rather than *more* freedom for others. This is what makes the trend seem negative to white people, less so for others.

          Still, I do believe that everyone in the end values liberty, and I think we’re heading there, but we have decades worth of encrusted political bullshit before we get there.

          1. I do believe that everyone in the end values liberty, and I think we’re heading there, but we have decades worth of encrusted political bullshit before we get there

            And in those still to pass decades, there will be an economic calamity like we’ve never had before and when that happens the people will be all to happy to give up their freedom for the promise of economic stability and material comfort.

            Enjoy what we have now because it isn’t going to last much longer.

            1. Hear. Hear.

          2. Unfortunately, the movement of government over the past century has been to make *less* freedom for white people rather than *more* freedom for others.

            This is pretty much it. And considering we have some black civil rights activists on record saying that if more white people were shot under questionable circumstances by police, that would make the situation better, I think we know where this is going.

            Still, I do believe that everyone in the end values liberty, and I think we’re heading there, but we have decades worth of encrusted political bullshit before we get there

            As I’ve said before, the fatal flaw in western liberal democracy is it seems inevitable its constituents eventually figure out how to loot their neighbors through the democratic process. Europe figured this out a while ago, and America has begun this process in full swing.

            Sure we’re more free, but it’s a government-subsidized freedom built on printed currencies, crushing daylight cronyism and vast self-serving regulatory systems.

      2. Prohibition which now has broad bipartisan support and no longer even requires a constitutional amendment.

        Interesting – why didn’t they just ban alcohol back then? You know, for our own good?

      3. Stop pining for a ‘Golden Age’ that never was. The Good Old Days had the Comstock censorship, Jim Crow/other forms of institutional racism, lots of cronyism, and really really terrible trade policy. I weep for the wealth destroyed by the massive tariffs of those times.

        1. Comstock censorship

          Right! Back then we covered up boobies! Now we just cover up political speech.

          Jim Crow/other forms of institutional racism

          See my followup comment which you missed.

          The entire civil rights movement was to give the inherent constitutional freedoms to minorities that white people enjoyed. The good news is, no one enjoys them any more!

          I weep for the wealth destroyed by the massive tariffs of those times.

          $18 trillion in debt and still counting. It takes two incomes to purchase and maintain a house for most families. No wealth being destroyed there.

          1. “no one enjoys them any more!”

            With bullshit like this, I think I’ll pass on your followup comments and your other comments, except to mock them and your insipid faux-edgy cynicism.

            1. God you such such a douchey infant.

          2. $18 trillion in debt and still counting

            Don’t forget the $125 trillion of unfunded liabilities!

            1. HALT WITH THE INSIPID FAUX-EDGY CYNICISM!

    3. Just hope someone doesn’t catch you committing one of your Three Felonies a Day and destroy your life over it.

    4. My family and I were way more free when I was a little kid in the ’80s than we are now. I could walk around the neighborhood on my own to my heart’s content. If I let my own kids do the stuff that my buds and I did back then, I’d almost certainly be arrested. Heck, I could even set up a lemonade stand in front of my house if I wanted to without some low-rent Nazi harassing me.

      I will readily concede that if gay butt sex was my thing, I’d probably be happier today than ever. Other than that though, the modern situation stinks on ice.

      1. You’d be happiest with the gay butt sex if it was w Mexicans. While smoking pot. & shooting guns. In the back of a food truck. Where ferret was on the menu.

    5. I think that another part of the current trend of slowly expanding liberty has to do with the internet.

      Politcal debate has completely outstriped the ability of media executives to define and categorize it. People with views that in the past would have been difficult to express and find passive acceptance, much less agreement, can now go on-line and find they really aren’t so alone.

  10. Doesn’t something have to be born first to be dead? Or was this aborted as an unviable tissue mass in the womb?

    1. Trump gave it the metaphorical scissors to the base of the brain.

      1. ick!

    2. What is dead may never die!

      1. Zombie Libertarians

        Zombie Libertarian Moment

        Passable band names?

  11. The libertarian moment that never was.

    The Cato Institute just published “The Human Freedom Index” and the US is 20th. “The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave” was beaten out by Chile.

    It’s not a perfect measure but it shows that we’re not moving towards greater freedom. The reaction of the polls to the Christie-Paul exchanges showed Christie staying where he was and Paul on his way back to Kentucky.

    Donald Trump has sealed the deal with virtually incoherent policies, not even policies really, more like LSD flashbacks, that he supports with non-existent facts but 25% of Republicans swear it has to Donald.

    1. The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Hong Kong, Switzerland, Finland, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Ireland, the United Kingdom, and Sweden. The United States is ranked in 20th place. Other countries rank as follows: Germany (12), Chile (18), Japan (28), France (33), Singapore (43), South Africa (70), India (75), Brazil (82), Russia (111), China (132), Nigeria (139), Saudi Arabia (141), Venezuela (144), Zimbabwe (149), and Iran (152).

      http://www.cato.org/publicatio…..edom-index

      The top ten is loaded with liberal democracies none of which I would trade place with.

      1. It is shocking to hear you say something sensible.

        1. Must have gotten a SW upgrade.

          1. More like the hard disk got jostled.

      2. But you would vote for Hillary who would then lead the charge in that direction.

        Ha ha ha ha!

    2. From the paper:
      Safety and Security.
      Literally half of their criteria involve security and safety (about half of which is rule of law). The other half? Personal freedoms.

      I do not think freedom means what the Cato institute apparently thinks it means:

    3. “The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave” was beaten out by Chile.

      And Canada!

  12. I made an alternate chart plotting actual laws and regulations passed and enforced. It doesn’t look like your chart of feelz.

    1. This.

      If people really were tilting more libertarian, they would actually fucking vote for one (or something akin to one a la Rand) instead of just talking about it.

    2. I made an alternate chart plotting actual laws and regulations passed and enforced

      I’d like to see it. Link?

  13. Keep telling yourself that.

    I came back here because the derp was so bad elsewhere. Everyone’s sarc detectors are broken. But I thought, “Surely, teh REASON will not have people with broke sarc detectors. SURELY there will be REASON and humor at REASON….”

    And I come back and THIS is posted….

    *puts .357 Mag to head and pulls trigger*

  14. If we are any freer now than 40 years ago, it is only because the government can’t keep up with new technology. But they eventually regulate every human activity into total submission.

  15. You know who else thought their time had come….

    1. Daenerys Targaryen?

    2. The Chambers Brothers?

  16. I’d like to believe the country is getting more libertarian. I really, really would. But the key part of this survey, the “is the federal government too powerful?” question, is vague to the point of meaninglessness. Everyone thinks the feds are too powerful when interfering with what *they* want to be left alone to do.

  17. Oh I’m totally fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

    I just believe that the rich need to pay more to contribute their fair share, businesses need to be forced to cut back on pollution, all the immigrants and their families need to be rounded up, we need to attack Iran before they get the bomb, certain classes need to be legally protected from private discrimination, and we don’t need to cut anything from medicare or SS.

    That’s what fiscally conservative and socially liberal means, right?

    1. The rest of that shit is cray, but I’m OK roundin’ up the furriners…

      /Trumpette

    2. That’s what fiscally conservative and socially liberal means, right?

      No. It means using the same The Army Painter primer for all of your minis, yet having painted armies for the Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos.

      1. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE LANGUAGE OF MY PEOPLE, FOUL XENOS SCUM!

        /Brother-sergeant

          1. I’m actually painting an Imperial Fists successor chapter right now that’s all based on Imperial China. I’m using Qing Dynasty iconography on all their vehicles, and I made them an Imperial Fists successor chapter to use the yellow and red color scheme, and because the Fists are known for building fuckhuge walls. I’m going to name all the leadership models after characters from Three Kingdoms.

            1. And once that’s done it’s off to Dark Eldar, because I played Dark Elves forever in Fantasy (RIP).

              1. I had a Lizardmen army when I was in college, but I gave them to a friend for safekeeping when I went abroad. I most do Force on Force now.

                1. I still have half a Lizardman army somewhere around here, though I think it’s just some Temple Guard and their Slann, and maybe a Stegadon.

                  I hadn’t ever seen that game. I do play some Flames of War, but I’ll look into that Force on Force.

            2. That’s really, really cool. I was always a Guan Yu fan.

              1. I have a small shrine in his aspect as Guan Di in my living room, with an incense bowl in front of it, to protect the house.

                1. Excellent. I gave a Guan Di image to my buddy in Bangkok, who was a cop in HK for 25 years. Guan Di is the protector of both the cops and the Triads.

                  1. He’s also the patron god of tofu.

                    The Legend of Guan Di.

                    1. He’s also the patron god of tofu.

                      As anyone who played this game knows.

                    2. I keep waiting for the Total War guys to do a Three Kingdoms one, but they supposedly don’t want to step on the toes of Dynasty Warriors.

                    3. I was always more of a iof Koei’s R3K strategy games. But I liked Nobunaga’s Ambition and Genghis Khan even more. Aerobiz is still one of the best airline “tycoon” sims.

            3. Reading this sent me on a tangent – when my son was younger he loved to watch Avatar – The Last Air Bender. I used to watch it with him to and really enjoyed all the Chinese stuff, even though I’m sure it was heavily dumbed-down.

              1. really enjoyed all the Chinese stuff

                Find some good translations of books by Jin Yong/Louis Cha if you can. You might dig wuxia.

            4. I’ll never forget drinking in the campus pub with some buddies – one another former Marine – when one of the group started going on about how poorly planned Marine island assaults were in WWII.

              Dumbshit, a vocal Sinophile, stated that Marine leadership of that era were oblivious to the teachngs of Sun Tsu and his Art of War. Dumbshit himself was oblivious to the fact that one of the best known contemporary English language versions of that book had been translated from the original Chinese by a Marine general still serving at the time.

      2. Holy shit, there are others! I’M NOT ALONE!

        1. You are never alone in the light of the Emperor, brother.

          UnCivilServant also made a comment about Nagash once, so I think he’s one of us, also.

    3. Fiscally Conservative / Socially Liberal sure seems to mean facts play no role in their thinking.

      The worst question ever asked on a survey is “Is America going in the right direction or the wrong direction?”

      40% of the respondents will say wrong direction because America is going left. Another 40% will say wrong direction because America is going right. The remaining 20% think everything’s just ducky because half of them think we’re going left and the other half think we’re going right.

      Result – 80% of Americans think we’re moving in the wrong direction. The joke is that 95% of Americans couldn’t tell left from right if their lives depended on it or even if America was moving at all.

    4. Gojira,

      You left out “war on drugs, Rah! Rah! Rah!”

  18. I’m also sure the executives of Uber could use a bigger libertarian moment. Or, anyone trying to start a business in this country.

  19. “NOW! Does anybody NOT wanna march up and down the square all day??!!!….JOHNSON!!!”

    “Well sir – there is this really good book I’ve been reading, and if I could go back to my barracks and read it…”

    “RIGHT! OFF WITH YOU!!! Does anyone ELSE not wanna march UP AND DOWN THE SQUARE ALL DAY??!!!”

  20. I’ll take the olden days of America – say the nineteenth century – over what we have now… sure it wasn’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but a man (or woman!) could pick up and leave to the frontier. The Feds had just a speck of the power that they have now.

    Identification cards— what?

    Gun control? May I interest you in a Gatling Gun?

    The buffoonery of Washington DC rarely touched the general public – unless a war came around. And even then it was probably easy to duck out of being drafted.

    Yeah – I know it was actually worse in so many ways (medical stuff, socons, etc) + a hint of romanticism of the past, but a man can dream, can’t he?

    1. +1 Children of the WasteWesternland

    2. It’s too bad there isn’t any frontier left anywhere aside from Alaska. Too cold for my tastes.

      1. GLOWBAL WARMING!!!!

    3. When my mother and father were in high school during the Kennedy years, many of the public high schools had gun clubs, and the students could bring their firearms back and forth from home to school. And I’m not talking about the Ozarks, I’m talking about New York City.

      Could you even imagine the notion of a public school gun club today? Simply bringing the idea up would probably be enough to get you arrested or put in some facility.

      1. *gets the vapors from the mere sight of the word “gun” – faints*

      2. I used to bring my .22 back and forth to day camp. I can’t imagine the hysterics that would cause these days.

      3. My mother’s high school – which was in a pretty affluent area of Chicago back then – had a shooting range in the basement.

        And, oddly enough, they also taught Russian. (just in case the USSR took over?)

        1. Nah, they taught Russian so that their students could infiltrate the Soviet Union, and, after we took it over, run the place.

          1. But – they’d run it the Chicago Way, right? And that would have been better?

            1. Better for them, sure.

      4. At my high school in Kentucky in the mid-90s, you could still have weapons up on racks in your truck as long as they stayed in the parking lot. Too many deer hunters lived there.

        I do believe that changed though shortly after I moved to Texas (1997) because of a school shooting there.

        1. I do believe that changed though shortly after I moved to Texas (1997) because of a school shooting there.

          Amazingly, all of the hysteria and new rules haven’t stopped the school shootings…

    4. Well, it was awesome assuming you were a) a white man, b) were okay going to jail if you sent a naked picture through the mail, c) didn’t care much about rampant book censorship on obscenity grounds, etc.

      My pretty much perfect country would be America’s regulatory state in 1895 only applied without racist or sexist discrimination and with stronger 1st Amendment protections.

      1. So you are telling me that access to porn is the measure of freedom? You can go to prison for decades now if you download the wrong picture off of the internet. How is that any better?

        And as far as it being so bad for black people, have you seen our inner cities? I would rather have grown up in the Jim Crow South with parents who gave a shit about me than grow up to day with no father and a mother on welfare living in some place like Baltimore.

        And beyond that, so fucking what? Couldn’t we have got rid of the segregation and giving you your all important porn without taking away all of those other freedoms?

        1. Tell us about how the Scopes trial was all a set up John. And how Fiorina was totally right to merge with Compaq.

          1. Since you are illiterate. I doubt you will be able to read this. But maybe they have it on tape.

            http://www.amazon.com/Summer-G…..opes+trial

            Try actually knowing something sometime. Profoundly ignorant about everything is no way to go through life son.

        2. John, are you fucking with me right now?

          So you are telling me that access to porn is the measure of freedom? You can go to prison for decades now if you download the wrong picture off of the internet. How is that any better?

          No, John, that’s why I included it in a list of multiple other issues. And the issue of obscenity laws wasn’t just about looking at porn, it was about basic press freedom which included the right to publish books (note: Classic novels like Lady Chatterley’s Lover and Tropic of Cancer being banned as late as the 1950’s) and the right to publish stories and articles in privately owned magazines. It is a major private property issue in addition to an assault on a free press.

          And as far as it being so bad for black people, have you seen our inner cities? I would rather have grown up in the Jim Crow South with parents who gave a shit about me than grow up to day with no father and a mother on welfare living in some place like Baltimore.

          At the time, poor blacks were living in fucking shacks with a standard of living that was outright barbaric, even by the lower standards of the 1890s. If you had to live in the sort of dirt poor community blacks in 1895 were living in while being attacked by Klansmen, I suspect you’d have a slightly different view of things.

          1. Also, LO Fucking L at the dude who freaks out continuously over the gross indignity of bakers getting forced to bake for gay people now basically shrugging off the evils of the Jim Crow south. Gays attacking Christian rights to free association are horrible affronts to human dignity, but blacks not being legally allowed to MARRY white people and getting attacked if they slept with white girls is apparently no big deal.

            Who even gives a shit? Now if they’d been forced to bake a cake John might be upset enough to flip his shit, but as it stands who really cares?

            1. Take it up with Thomas Sowell. He is on multiple occasions said blacks were better off when he grew up than they are now. That doesn’t fit your narrative but I think the man probably has a point.

              Beyond that, I ask again, so fucking what? One has nothing to do with the other. The fact that you can read your Henry James now, and you could then. No one went to prison for having it. Couldn’t we have done that and not gotten rid of so many of our freedoms? Every aspect of our lives is controlled now. You have just grown so used to it and are so fooled by the bread and circuses of available porn, you don’t fully realize it.

              1. Is Thomas Sowell the unquestioned authority on everything relating to the black community? Is his opinion representative of the black community’s thoughts in general in that regard? He also didn’t grow up in the late 1800s, so his anecdotal opinion based on personal experience is completely worthless for the time period in question.

                1. It is certainly a debatable question. But he is more of an authority than you. And if he says it, it is not unreasonable.

                  1. “But he is more of an authority than you.”

                    If only there weren’t millions of other people who can speak on this subject with authority that would agree with me.

                    “And if he says it, it is not unreasonable.”

                    Smart people can have unreasonable beliefs. Suggesting growing up on welfare with a single mother in the 21st century is worse than growing up in a dirt poor 2 parent household in the Jim Crow South in the 1800s is unreasonable. To suggest that the former have their liberty more restricted than the latter is laughable.

                2. no. But Thomas Sowell is smarter than you and he is black and he is old and Ameircan. So to tell him you know more about blacks in america than him is racist.

                  therefore you are racist….so STFU.

                  This is a fact of life in modern politically correct speech code america….sorry racist btichez!

          2. What? No running water? Heating was the fireplace and a stove? You lived on squirrel, jarred tomatoes, and potatoes for six months a year?

            Wait- that was my mom in 1945.

        3. John, perhaps you might not be the most qualified person to compare the conditions of black people today to under 19th century Jim Crow? It’s not like there aren’t still people alive who lived under Jim Crow in the early to mid 20th century, and I’m pretty sure they overwhelmingly wouldn’t take that over the situation today, as flawed as it is, and living conditions in the mid 20th century were significantly better than in the late 1800s.

          1. Take it up with Thomas Sowell.

            1. So you have nothing other than the academic equivalent of the “I have a black friend” defense?

              1. Most of my friends know black people. just sayin.

      2. There was also the terrible import tariffs and KKK impunity.

        1. And no income tax. And virtually no banking controls. You could go to any country you liked with as much cash as you liked and no one would bother you. Try that now.

    5. Again, you’re reaching for a golden wage that didn’t exist. High import tariffs, racist government policy, cronyism, etc. Look forward, not back.

      1. Cronyism? Check.

        Racist government policies? Check.

        High tariffs? OK, got me there.

        I don’t see how there can be any doubt whatsoever that the government is far larger, more pervasive, more intrusive, and more embedded in your everyday life today than at any point in our history.

        Ye Olden Tymes weren’t a golden age (nice straw man, BTW). But they were unquestionably more libertarian.

        1. There was a time when you could be arrested and thrown in jail (or de facto legally lynched) for sleeping with someone of a different race or the same sex (and in the latter case, that ra ended this millenium). How much more intrusive and personal can you get? Not to mention the 90 years where the government legally enforced the bondage of chattel slavery for millions of people. Oh, and there was the eugenics movement in the early 1900s. And the time Japanese Americans got put in concentration camps. And the time women had very limited legal rights. And the time Native Americans got massacred or forcibly herded onto reservations. Your opinion shows a major lack of perspective and/or historical knowledge.

          1. *era

          2. It’s like he’s wantonly ignorant of the whole ’30s and early ’40s. FFS ever heard of The Draft Mr. RC Dean?

            It’s clear you like the ‘it’s worse than ever’ talking point and will never let facts get in your way.

            1. I’m aware of the draft. I’m aware of Jim Crow.

              I’m also aware of the fact that government is now bigger, more intrusive, and is more embedded in your everyday life than at any time in history.

              Sure, some things are better now. You could even put together a decent list, I’m sure – homebrewing, airline dereg, no more draft, the repeal of Jim Crow (tainted as it is by the abrogatrion of free association and contracts), etc.

              But, in the big picture, the grand scheme, I don’t see how anyone can seriously argue that the government is smaller, less intrusive, and less embedded in your everyday life now than it used to be. Ever.

              It consumes more of our resources, employs (directly or indirectly) more people, has more rules and regulations, more prisons, more surveillance, less accountability.

              But go right ahead and believe that at some point in the past, it was bigger, more intrusive, and more embedded in everyone’s day-to-day life.

              1. He’s just pissy that the doesn’t have his Stirling engine Segway yet.

              2. “But go right ahead and believe that at some point in the past, it was bigger, more intrusive, and more embedded in everyone’s day-to-day life.”

                There’s a couple of issues with framing things this way. Liberty isn’t something that’s directly proportional to the mere size of government. Don’t get me wrong -bigger government tends to result in less liberty. But there are other factors. A slave in the antebellum US probably didn’t interact much with the government. But the government was always in the background enforcing the laws that kept them in perpetual bondage. How do you quantify that in terms of intrusiveness and embedding in people’s lives? For people in states with segregation, the government determined day in and day out where and/or how you could eat, live, stay, work, and who you could associate with in your personal and professional life. Sodomy laws, laws against birth control, etc. were all very intrusive. As far back as the late 1700s you had the Alien & Sedition Acts that tightly controlled speech and negated due process and legal rights. For most of the 1800s women, or at least married women, had essentially no property rights and limited work opportunities.

              3. It’s kind of dumb to compare things now to the 1800s as life has changed drastically since then. Most people back then lived as simple farmers. Life is a lot more complex and diverse nowadays, and with that brings a lot more opportunity for the government to involve itself in areas it either couldn’t or had no reason to in the past. Obviously the government couldn’t collect phone records in 1830. There also was a lot less wealth back then, which limits the ability for a welfare state to exist, and also exasperates the impact taxation does have. I don’t disagree that things have gotten worse in certain regards, but I nonetheless think you’re hand-waving away some massive violations of very fundamental liberties that outweigh anything going on today. I’m not a fan of Social Security, the IRS, and the EPA but they’re not as bad as chattel slavery, segregation, ethnic cleansing, and a lack of basic freedoms all of the examples I’ve given represent.

                1. That is indeed RC Dean’s problem: using an unreliable means of measurement.

          3. Yes, now you can just get arrested and thrown in jail only if you pay them. Prostitution was generally legal in the 19th century.

            Your property can be confiscated to give to other favored parties, not for the public good. Or it can be confiscated on the whim of law enforcement. Want to build something on your land? First you must complete an environmental impact study. Might there be an endangered species in the area? Well then it’s not really your land to use, is it?

            In the 19th century you could consume any drug you wished.

            In the 19th century there were no minimum wage laws. Want to freely contract? Whoa there, pardner, don’t go all crazy on me. Are you meeting your quotas, er, “diversity?” No? Well then let’s have a little talk…

            No NLRB. No EPA. No IRS. Today the IRS can “accidentally” release your tax information if you don’t belong to the right club. And barring that they can always give you a special hug and dig through the last seven years of your life. I hope you kept those receipts.

            The government can take over half of your income (trust me, it’s greeeat!). I realize unless it’s 100% it doesn’t count, but for simpletons like me that’s a problem. And combined government does take ~40% of the total output of the country. So in a practical sense 40% of the country is enslaved to the other 60%. But hey they’ve still got enough to be comfortable so they should really shut the fuck up.

            Your opinion shows a major lack of contemporary knowledge.

            1. “Yes, now you can just get arrested and thrown in jail only if you pay them. Prostitution was generally legal in the 19th century.”

              Do you seriously think illegal prostitution is worse than the anti-miscegenation laws and anti-sodomy laws that outlawed all consensual relations between groups? Ignoring all the other various reasons why that isn’t the case, it’s a lot easier to discreetly engage in illegal prostitution (as a client or a prostitute) than it is to have a full-on relationship/marriage with someone illegally.

              “Your property can be confiscated to give to other favored parties, not for the public good. Or it can be confiscated on the whim of law enforcement. Want to build something on your land? First you must complete an environmental impact study. Might there be an endangered species in the area? Well then it’s not really your land to use, is it?”

              The regulatory state wasn’t as big back then, but there was a lot of corruption back then that negatively affected property rights, labor rights, and other economic rights that you’re glossing over. The property rights and economic rights of certain classes of people (women, black people, etc.) were also severely limited or nonexistent.

              “In the 19th century you could consume any drug you wished.”

              Don’t disagree with you that drug laws are worse today. Although the push that led to them was well under way in the 1800s and culminated with major victories (for the prohibitionists) in the early 1900s.

              1. Never mind miscegenation & sodomy; fornication was illegal. In many jurisdictions there was no need for a law against prostitution, because sex w a stranger was illegal whether for consideration or not.

            2. “No NLRB. No EPA. No IRS. Today the IRS can “accidentally” release your tax information if you don’t belong to the right club. And barring that they can always give you a special hug and dig through the last seven years of your life. I hope you kept those receipts.

              The government can take over half of your income (trust me, it’s greeeat!). I realize unless it’s 100% it doesn’t count, but for simpletons like me that’s a problem. And combined government does take ~40% of the total output of the country. So in a practical sense 40% of the country is enslaved to the other 60%. But hey they’ve still got enough to be comfortable so they should really shut the fuck up.”

              If you seriously think that is as bad as the examples I’ve given then you are out of your mind. No one said you can’t complain about any of that. What people are taking issue with is the notion that as a whole things were more free back then and that liberty has undergone some constant decline since we had Peak Freedom after the Constitution was ratified. I don’t like the income tax either, but it’s nowhere near as bad as chattel slavery, that’s ridiculous.

    6. Better still, in the period a couple generations before that, politicians would duel over differing opinions. Imagine a politician who would literally stand his ground over his convictions.

      And whether you agreed with those convictions or not the world would be a better place having removed a politician from our midst.

  21. From Bush to Obama to Clinton: America’s Clear Libertarian Progression
    And how every industry in America from Finance to Energy to Healthcare to Housing haven’t actually been infected with a cult of hyper-regulartory progressive meddling doomed to hamstring growth and bring about European-Style Fiscal Insolvency as soon as possible

    Available at all fine bookstores in your local alternate dimensions

    1. You get a license to publish that book??

    2. You and your negative waves Gilmore. Can’t you just enjoy your pot and government sanctioned ass sex instead of bringing everyone down?

    3. We are just as bankruptcy-bound as the Western Europeans but, unlike us, they had a fifty-year long party on the way there. We’ll just get a pauper’s funeral.

      1. They sure did. Must have been nice having the US Army, Navy and Air Force guarding the frontier while they lived it up.

  22. This world is too broken to fix. The only chance for a Libertopia is in space. A bunch of freedom-loving scientists need to develop faster-than-light travel and establish a colony on a distant world. Of course, once that happened it’d only be a matter of time before authoritarians attempted to control everyone. At which point it’d be time to move onto a the next planet…

    1. “We’re declaring Eminent Domain on your colony. Trump3000 wants to put in a casino….get out.”

      1. In fact, your whole planet is going to be a gambling chip in a vast casino.

  23. This survey makes me think that America is filled with socialists who like pot and ass sex.

    1. Pretty much. Even the immigration poll is meaningless. Seven out of ten support giving illegals a “chance” to stay “under certain conditions”. How much of a chance and under what conditions? The poll leaves that to the respondents to figure out. It is utterly meaningless.

  24. Whatever you think of gay rights, gays are like 2% of the population. And of that 2% what, maybe a quarter or one half of a percent want to get gay married?

    Yet, gay rights is always and forever one of the banner libertarian causes. Yeah because the fact that one half of one percent of the population are deprived the pleasure of getting ass raped in divorce court and have to make a will is totally on the same level of injustice as the fact that you can’t start so much as a lemonade stand in front of your house without the cops showing up or that you can’t buy a sudefed without putting your name on a government list or that the police can do everything short of murder you and sometimes can even do that with no worries about being held responsible or the fact that we now have something like the 20th freest economy in the world.

    There will never be a libertarian moment because when one happens Libertarians won’t realize it because if it doesn’t involve pot or ass sex it is not “Libertarian”.

    1. You conservatives will never understand, but support of gay marriage and abortion are indicative of a whole swath of important libertarian concepts like legal prostitution, legal drugs, embryonic stem cell research, contraception, euthanasia, etc.

      Or maybe you do understand and that is why you put up such a firewall.

      1. You conservatives will never understand, but support of gay marriage and abortion are indicative of a whole swath of important libertarian concepts like legal prostitution, legal drugs, embryonic stem cell research, contraception, euthanasia, etc.

        You’d think so, but in my experience, the “my body, my choice” people become very tight-lipped when the choice under discussion involves injecting yourself with heroin.

        The same is true of prostitution, actually–most people of a progressive stripe that I’ve spoken to want leniency for the prostitutes, but are perfectly fine with throwing their customers in cages (because they are “exploiting” the working girls, naturally).

        So I’m not seeing these issues line up the way you seem to.

        1. The my body my choice people are all over denying people dying of cancer the chance at unapproved treatments. They don’t believe that at all. They just love death and abortion.

          1. Don’t forget pot and ass sex.

        2. support of gay marriage and abortion are indicative of a whole swath of important libertarian concepts like legal prostitution, legal drugs, embryonic stem cell research, contraception, euthanasia,

          Perhaps, if we are talking about philosophical consistency.

          In reality, the hard-core pro-choicers (and, I suspect, many of the gay marriage activists) are mostly about as proggy/fascist total state as you can get.

          That’s because they come, generally, from a subculture that is permeated by leftism and proggy ideology. Gay marriage and abortion are part of that ideology pretty much by historical accident (back in the day when they were “insurgent” ideas that opposed many of the institutions hated by proggy leftists).

          The vast majority of these “cultural” libertarians would outlaw private gun ownership, impose a maximum wage, implement carbon rationing, etc. etc. if given power.

          This is a blind spot for at least some Reason writers, as well. I’m all for tactical political alliances, as long as you understand how political capital works. If you help the proggy fascists win one of their battles, they gain political capital to apply to other issues where they are dead opposed to liberty.

    2. See, the problem is that things like gay marriage are actually tiny issues that libertarians tend to think are, in fact, the best hill to die on. That type of issue is fine and appeals to a lot of people on mostly symbolic grounds. But the reality is that it all starts and ends with economic freedom and size of government. Cut taxes (and all government agencies’ budgets) by 75% and freedom will spike immediately because the gov won’t be able to enforce anything. Nobody is willing to cut their pet issue (EPA, military etc.)…

      1. Gay marrriage is easy. It appealed to the entire mass culture and media and fucked a bunch of people the rest of society hates. Doing something about real problems in contrast is hard.

        1. “fucked a bunch of people the rest of society hates.”

          Stop lying.

          1. Social conservatives are nothing without their persecution complexes.

            1. What gave me away as a social conservative Geoff? Was it my desire to legalize all drugs or was it my desire to legalize all forms of pornography including child porn? Which was it?

              Face it you fucking half wit. Not everyone who calls you on your bullshit fits the image your prejudices think they should.

            2. All those T-shirt makers, bakers, tour operators, wedding-chapel owners and florists threatened with crippling fines…all those people outed by the government for their political views and then driven from their jobs…they’re just whining and claiming to be persecuted just because they’re threatened with loss of livelihood or of their life savings…whine, whine, whine, man up, dudes, it’s not as if you’re an illegal immigrant pot smoker or other genuine victim of government oppression!

              1. Pretending that social conservatives have been hated by society more than gay people have been is ludicrous and indicative of a persecution complex.

                1. They haven’t been. They just are now. And Libertarians seem to think it is great.

                  1. You spoke in the past tense, and until very recently that wasn’t even remotely debatable. Even now I think it’s still ridiculous to think going through life as a gay person in this country is less burdensome and difficult than going through life as a social conservative. Especially considering there are large areas of the country where socially conservative thought still dominates. It’s not like there are large areas of mostly gay people.

              2. Except all of those people could have (and in many cases were) fucked with PRIOR to gay marriage.

                The problem, as always, has been fucking public accommodation.

      2. Indeed. Occasionally I hear people say that entitlements have to be cut, etc. and then I ask them about the mortgage interest deduction and of course that’s something that should be kept.

        1. Although I’ve taken advantage of the mortgage interest deduction in the past (and had Progressives brand me a hypocrite and a welfare recipient because of that) I agree it’s completely unfair and should be abolished.

        2. The problem is a logistical one. They need to be phased out over time. I would say 10 years for mortgage interest and 30 years for the entitlement state. These are deep cancers.

      3. What is with the “hill to die on” crap? Having an opinion about a major issue doesn’t mean you are sacrificing everything you have to promote it. You may have noticed that it wasn’t libertarians who were the major drivers of the recent gay marriage stuff. It was left-liberals. The fact that Reason likes to write articles about it and that many libertarians thought that gay people should have their marriages recognized in the same way that straight couples do doesn’t mean it’s a hill to die on. Especially in the case of something like gay marriage that hasn’t turned out to be a big loser like legalizing prostitution or heroin.

    3. Right, because treating gay people fairly under the law and operating a lemonade stand freely are mutually exclusive propositions.

      Look John, we all get it already: you have a serious problem with gay people and think they are a toxic influence in American society.

      I’m sure you are just socially graceful enough to not let that affect your ability to work with one or whatever, but it still makes you a bigot.

      1. Well, if we’re looking at actual trends, then you have to look at both gay marriage and the mountain of regulations at all levels, and make a call on how they sum up.

        To me, its not even close.

        I don’t see how there can be any doubt whatsoever that the government is far larger, more pervasive, more intrusive, and more embedded in your everyday life today than at any point in our history.

        1. But RC. To people like Geoff, getting the government involved in gay relationships is what freedom is all about. Making more government marriage is freedom.

      2. One you don’t’ know me. A good number of people on here are horrifically bigoted against anyone who is religious. So since when is being a “bigot” a bad thing.

        I am not bigoted. I don’t’ think gays should go to jail. I think they should be able to live how they want to. I just don’t give a fuck if they get a government marriage license. I care about it about as much as you care about the people who got sued for not baking a wedding cake, that is not at all.

        I am not a bigot. I just unlike you have a pair of balls and don’t feel the need to forever social signal about how acceptable I am.

        1. Haha John, the thing is you constantly socially signal all the time. Just to a different crowd then the people you accuse everyone else of signalling to.

          1. No I offend those people with my views on drugs and porn. I actually think for myself. You should try it sometime. You are a smart guy. Really. It would work out for you

  25. Has anyone made the obligatory comment about polling millennials yet?

    If not, i’ll help out:
    What do millennials think about this, Gillespie? Maybe there should be a poll….

  26. The headline conclusion here only makes sense if you think a person who says,

    I’m totally libertarian! on everything…. except economic things, like personal property and business and stuff.”

    …is equally legit.

    1. I’m totally libertarian! on everything…. except economic things, like personal property and business and stuff. Oh, and like, bigotry – that should be totes illegal, too.

      Yeah. Libertarian as hell. Practically anarchists.

    2. I’ve actually had a good friend/ex-work wife tell me that she’s “libertarian.”

      She’s a Bernie supporter.

      1. I do think many people are partial to Libertarianism, at least the fundamental ideas. It’s just hard to get them to think (and by extension, act) in a consistent way about it.

        1. It’s word to many people that means whatever they want it to mean, much like Obama was whatever they wanted him to be. I don’t even bother correcting them any longer.

          1. The problem is everyone loves “rights” and “freedom” right up until someone they don’t like starts taking advantage of it. Then things change.

      2. To many people “Libertarian” is like a condom; when they roll it onto their member it seems to fit perfectly (except for the fact that it could roll down a couple more inches, it’s a bit loose here and there, etc) – but they feel it has prepared them for the task at hand so the fit is perfect.

  27. America Still Trending Libertarian

    Go ahead. Pull the other one.

    1. No, you’ll just fart in my face again.

  28. So how many people are willing to vote for actual politician with an actual plan to actually cut funding to an actual government program instead of just vague discontent with Big Government? And deal with the protests, hostile media and hostile bureaucracy?

  29. An Airman in a windowless room in Nevada can kill a bunch of “suspected terrorists” attending a wedding in Pakistan, and then go home and Vietnamese food and wash it down with a Mexican beer while sexting his boyfriend in San Francisco.
    Truly, it is a Golden Age.

    1. That is a sunny way of putting it!

    2. while sexting his boyfriend husband in San Francisco

      Keep up with the times, Brooksie.

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