Libertarianism

Kid Rock: "Fiscally, I'm Republican. But the social issues kill me — gay marriage and abortion. It's like, Come on, man, get off it."

When you've lost Kid Rock, GOP, you might as well go home already.

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Kid Rock, talking to The New York Times (questions in bold face):

I've seen you say that you're not in bed with anybody; you're more of a libertarian than anything else. 

Fiscally, I'm Republican. But the social issues kill me — gay marriage and abortion. It's like, Come on, man, get off it. There's so many big problems we got that we really need to address in this country.

You endorsed Mitt Romney in 2012 and let him use your song "Born Free" during his presidential campaign. Do you think that you might endorse somebody again? 

When I see other people do it, when I see Springsteen and Jay-Z do it, I'm like, What a bunch of idiots. And then I'm looking in the mirror like, You're an idiot, too. Pot, meet kettle. I'm very interested in the things that Ben Carson has to say. I'm very interested in our governor in Michigan [Rick Snyder], who is bringing Detroit out of bankruptcy. I'd love to see him go for the gold, because he's a nerd, and he's an accountant. But at this point, I just don't know. It's definitely not on my list of things to do.

More here.

I'm always happy to hear someone self-describe as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That's like 90 percent of the way to being libertarian.

As for Ben Carson, Kid Rock would do well to note that the good doctor is staunchly anti-abortion and against gay marriage too. He supports medical marijuana though not recreational use and supports driving down the blood alcohol content for legal driving to 0.02 percent, down from 0.08 percent.

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  1. Where does he stand on the exploitation of dwarfs?

    1. He stands on Joe D’s grave.

  2. Okay so we have Big Boi, Penn Gilette, Drew Carey and now Kid Rock. All the movement needs now is Gary Busey and at least one member of ICP and we’ll take America by storm.

    1. Don’t you have Jack Burton too? I mean…that should be good for if some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, right?

      1. The check is IN the mail.

      2. Yessir, the check is in the mail.

        1. Egg, is that you?

        2. The greatest cinematic achievement of our time.

          1. I really want a TV show starring Burton traveling around the country and kicking this shit out of different immigrants’ supernatural enemies.

            1. “Ole Jack says when you’re eating a pierogi taco and the bowels open up, you better grip both sides of that porcelain throne.”

              1. It’s like I told my ex wife – it’s all in the reflexes.

    2. maybe Passion Pit : “Honey it’s your son I think I borrowed just too much
      We had taxes, we had bills, we had a lifestyle of fun
      And tonight I swear I’ll come home and we’ll make love like we’re young
      Then tomorrow you’ll cook dinner for the neighbours and their kids
      We can rip apart those socialists and all their damn taxes
      But see I am no criminal”

    3. You have neglected the 18-year-old Duke porn starlet. I don’t know why you’d neglect a teenaged porn starlet, but this you have done.

      1. Meh, plenty of porn stars are libertarian. It goes with the territory.

        1. This porn star goes to Duke! Getting a degree from Duke is, like, nearly as good as being waitlisted by Brown.

    4. We have Flava-Flave too

  3. In “Bawitdaba” he does call the IRS bastards, I’ll give him that.

    Jesus fuck that came out in 1997. A fucking Kid Rock song is almost 20 years old. I need to go get drunk.

    1. And Eminem’s first appearance on a major albumn IIRC.

        1. Have you heard some of his collaborations with Dr. Dre? Homoerotic undertones galore.

    2. Don’t do it, Epi. Being drunk is the only thing that makes it possible to endure a Kid Rock song.

      1. You’re right, Hugh. I’ll get stoned instead and listen to Hawkwind while watching Tim and Eric. That’s way safer. Thanks for looking out for me.

    3. Only 20? Whippersnapper.

      1. so i take it you jumped in your tardis and sped off to the future where there was more than appx 20 years since kid rock released bawitdaba

  4. But the social issues kill me ? gay marriage and abortion. It’s like, Come on, man, get off it …. I’m very interested in the things that Ben Carson has to say.

    You’re right, Rock, you are an idiot.

  5. It’s like, Come on, man, get off it. There’s so many big problems we got that we really need to address in this country.

    Except Eisenhower used this as excuse to keep Social Security.

    1. Perfection is the enemy of good.

      1. “Good enough” is the enemy of perfection.

        1. “The best we can do” is the enemy of anything decent.

          1. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy.

            THINK ABOUT IT….

            *stares*

            1. *raises an intrigued eyebrow*

  6. Don’t worry about Ben and his 0.02 BAC. There’s enough congress critters in the pocket of Big Mouthwash to keep that measure off the table.

    1. .02? Is he high?

      1. Well, he’s got this medical condition…

  7. “Come on, man, get off it.”

    stop imposing it by judicial fiat and people will.

    1. Here you go American. For when teh Gheys come for you.

    2. Yep, that’s what’s bothered people for the past 20 years. It’s just the activist judges that rub you the wrong way.

      1. Neither is “we got other big problems to address” as that would criticize the SSM supportrs for making it an issue for twenty years. It can be a constitutional crisis that it had no legal recogntion or it is not an important issue. It cannot be both.

  8. Socially liberal, or socially liberal and willing to not use the force of government to enforce your views?

    You might be down with transgender people and Iggy (the black pretender!), but some businesses might not want to hire those people.

    “Socially liberal” in this country refers to people emotionally invested in like race, sex, gender related issues, and abortions. That’s it. Most of these issues have very little “social” impact. I won’t be considered as “social liberal” for opposing hate speech laws and arbitrary laws against smoking and vaping, even though they affect society is much deeper ways.

    1. It means believing that people should have the same legal rights and opportunities regardless of irrelevant personal characteristic. Many liberals don’t reflexively believe that government is always evil, so don’t have a problem using it when the private sphere fails to address these aims.

      1. It means believing that people should have the same legal rights and opportunities regardless of irrelevant personal characteristic.

        Well that’s not what you believe. You believe that some people have the right to do X, Y or Z and that other people should be forbidden from X, Y or Z. You believe that some people have a right to the productive capacity of other people.

        1. Could you be more specific?

          1. You believe that group X has a right to seize the property of group Y.

            1. So do you unless you’re an anarchist.

              1. I have no archon… Apparently you do.

              2. IF YOU DONT WANT VIOLENT THEFT IN THE FORM OF TAXATION YOU MUST HATE SOCIETY!!!!111!!!!!!!
                /progderp

      2. Whenever the private sphere fails to do what the government wants it to do, the government must act. The progressive ideology in a nutshell.

        1. Well, ideally, what the *people* want it to do. It’s not written in any stone that societies should be forced to live with the consequences of a laissez-faire market. Just in the silly books you guys read.

          1. Well, ideally, what the *people* want it to do.

            The private sphere, the free market, IS the people.

            It’s not written in any stone that societies should be forced to live with the consequences of a laissez-faire market.

            So it’s not written in stone that societies should be forced to accept the consequences of not being forced?

          2. The free market is the people, the more government you inject into it the more of a biased imbalance you crate that in no way reflects the society.
            consumers spend money where they wish, just because they dont spend it the way the Tonys of the world wish it spent does not give you carte blanche to STEAL it through VIOLENT THEFT AND COERCION via taxation.
            you fucking idiot

      3. Same opportunities. So we must bust the ankles of Usain Bolt to give Rush Limbaugh the opportunity to win Olympic gold. I knew you were a closet ditto head.

  9. Yay just the spokesman we needed!

    /sarc

  10. Let’s… let’s not try to ‘claim’ Kid Rock for our team.

    1. we should do a political persuasion draft- a la Dave Chapelle- and make sure we don’t end up with him.

      1. Black delegation accepts the white delegation’s offer to claim Colin Powell… on the condition that they take Condoleezza Rice as part of the deal.

    2. I guess Glen Beck is calling himself a Libertarian nowadays…fuck me running…backwards.

      1. Until he has an actual Libertarian on to speak its all lip service

        1. Do you consider Penn a Libertarian?

    3. I second the motion that the Big Tent is mostly full, and that in the meantime Kid Rock should feel free to wait in the other tent over there with Adam Kokesh, Alex Jones, the people who seem to have gotten lost on the way to a Star Trek convention, Michael Hinh, those 5 guys from Occupy Wall St who want to ‘End the Fed’ but still aren’t sure what it is, and the League of Bazooka-Owning Weasel Farmers.

      1. Dont forget everyones favorite hollow earth theroist David Icke

  11. I like Kid Rock. I like that he’s not afraid to experiment with his music and doesn’t really care what anyone else thinks.

    1. I suppose you also like Taylor Swift?

      1. I can’t help what’s catchy Rich.

      2. I like those long legs on her.

      3. Is it ok to enjoy looking at Taylor Swift while not listening to her music? Just asking.

        1. I did that with Shania Twain and Faith Hill for years. And then there is Shakira.

          1. Rhianna and Shakira do some music video together that is pretty hot.

          2. Two words: Katy Perry.

            1. FTW! Best SB halftime show watched while the mute button was on ever!

            2. Two words: Perfect Creature

    2. The same could be said of a two year old banging pots together.

      1. Aka The Sex Pistols?

        1. You know not of what you write.

          1. I’m not above putting Kid Rock or the Pistols on the bar juke box.

            1. Very well. Carry on, good sir.

              Ta!

            2. I do this with the Anarchy in the USA tribute megadeth did
              I love shouting anarchy in the USA in a bar full of yuppies, its always good for a fight.

        2. They totally ripped off their look from Richard Hell and the Voidoids.

    3. ” he’s not afraid to experiment with his music “

      lol

      omg

      for a second i imagined that Kid Rock had joined King Crimson and they were going to do an entire musical theme-album based around the decoding of the human genome, and all of it in time-signatures that only utilize prime numbers

      or, you know… “titties & beer schlock-rock” … same difference.

      1. KR and King Crimson? That’s kinda weird. How about The Pixies w/Madona or Sonic Youth + Journey?

        1. Slayer and Katy Perry

      2. God i love King Crimson
        My brother and i ate mushies and blasted In the Court of the Crimson King out of my house for 4 hours
        also you may enjoy Camel if you havent heard them already look up the album “I can see your house from here” or “Moon Madness”

  12. “I’m always happy to hear someone self-describe as fiscally conservative and socially liberal.” He didn’t say he was fiscally conservative, he said “Fiscally I’m a Republican”. That could mean anything but probably not conservative, especially given that he endorsed Romney and Likes Ben Carson. To me it means he’s a “borrow and spend” instead of a “tax and spend”.

  13. This Week in Double Standards. European Edition.

    Last week, the judge convicted two German-Palestinian men of attempted serious arson against a synagogue in the city, along with a juvenile accomplice. But in his ruling, the wise man of the law declared that the crime was motivated not by anti-Semitism, but instead by a desire to “bring attention to the Gaza conflict.”

    Hate crime laws suck, but they are made even worse by uneven application.

    1. Meanwhile, fire fighters gathered to protest the growing plague of comedic arson:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOfsNiQxfAo

  14. Being a libertarian means responding to the proverb “You are the company you keep” with “ad hominem fallacy dumbass!”

    1. So I take it you’re willing to recognize Stalin and Pol Pot as your ‘company’ now based on your ideology? Quite the company you keep there.

    2. Libertarians hardly have the laundry list of monster fellow travelers unlike your tribe of communist murderers.

      1. That wasn’t *real* communism. Especially in China.

        That was the kind of communism where everyone has an equal share in the land they live in.

        1. More like an equal share to the land they’re buried in.

  15. I’m always happy to hear someone self-describe as fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

    While I understand the appeal of the term’s rhetorical elegance (it makes an excellent parallel with fiscally conservative), is “socially liberal” really even a thing anymore? I mean, are there any actual liberals who would logically be considered “socially liberal”? It really doesn’t seem so to me. At this point, the left has pretty much drank and absorbed the progressive kool-aid. And how someone could square “socially liberal”, at least as libertarians mean it, with the modern progressive perspective is beyond me. Modern progressive social views are as, no, more prescriptive and dogmatic as anything you’d see on the right unless you delve into the Santorum fever swamps. Is it a term that’s just lost its meaning, or just a calling to a larger principle?

    1. Since there are still people fighting against the rights and dignities of minorities and to impose Jesus on schoolchildren, etc., so being socially liberal means, in part, opposing such things.

      1. And I’m responded to by…Exhibit A of what I”m talking about. Here we have a first class douchebag eager to impose his preferences on anyone who disagrees with him by force of law, taking up the mantle of “socially liberal”. And as far as the overwhelming majority of the public would recognize, when libertarians call themselves “socially liberal”, Tony is what comes to their minds.

        1. Everybody wants their will enacted in society, even you guys. It’s called having a political viewpoint. Especially you guys. Saddling the country with what you call “freedom” would require far more radical impositions of government action than whatever I want to do.

          1. Everybody wants their will enacted in society, even you guys.

            If your will is to steal, kill, rape or worse that is illegitimate. If your will is to not have those things done to you or others, that is legitimate.

            Saddling the country with what you call “freedom” would require far more radical impositions of government action than whatever I want to do.

            Go on…

          2. Libertarian freedom requires more government action that the childish emotional fantasies of Tony wishing for the state to fulfill the role of parent. This, children, is what we call a contradiction.

            1. Actually, it’s what you call a sockpuppet that is being deliberately inflammatory to get you riled up and responding to it.

              1. I don’t get riled up at this stuff, I mostly just take potshots. Note the constant use of infantilizing terms, because ultimately I view Tony as more of an overly emotional child than a matured adult.

                1. In fact, you know who I kind of miss? Actually intelligent adult leftists. I miss the old academy Marxists who knew their shit and could actually argue somewhat. Sure, their position was evil/awful, but at least it wasn’t (always) empty catchphrases, logical contradictions and shitty emotional appeal.

                  1. You’re never going to see that type again. Anyone intelligent enough to be like that has seen enough evidence of the bankruptcy and horror of the end result of Marxist philosophy that the only ones left are the irredeemably stupid or utterly mendacious (or both).

              2. Everyone who disagrees with you is, of course, a sockpuppet.

                1. White knighting for the second most blatant and persistent troll account to ever grace the Reason comments section is kinda why people think you’re an asshole and a troll yourself, Bo.

              3. Not sock puppet. Troll. Get the taxonomy straight!

                1. No hes a sockpuppet, to be a troll he would have to be not emotionally invested in his argument.
                  Tony and Bo both believe this shit, so they are sock puppets of the regime

                  Mandalay is a troll and does not actually believe in progressivism but comes here once in a while to spout catch phrases and pick fights because he gets off on it

          3. My ideology allows for yours to exist freely, yours requires me to be violently compelled to do things your way.

      2. Since there are still people fighting against the rights and dignities of minorities

        Minorities don’t have rights, individuals do. Though I have no doubt that you believe ‘rights and dignities’ include forced association, hate speech and theft.

        1. And of course, to steal a line, the smallest minority is the individual. Negating individual rights for the sake of collective ones directly contradicts the concept.

        2. Tony loves force. It makes him happy when force is used on people he doesn’t like. It makes him happy when people he doesn’t like are forced to do things against their will. It makes him happy when people he doesn’t like have their life, liberty and property violated. He is in no way principled in the matter. It all comes down to who he likes and who he doesn’t like.

          That’s why he is physically incapable of understanding libertarian principles. For him it’s all about sticking it to people he doesn’t like.

          That’s why when libertarians say people should be allowed to keep what they earn, he feels that libertarians like these evil rich people.

          That’s why when libertarians oppose raising the minimum wage (since it forces the young and inexperienced out of the job market) he feels that libertarians hate the poor.

          He is physically incapable of thought.

          All he can do is feel. Like. So he feels that libertarians like or dislike certain policies based upon who we like or dislike.

          Principals, not principles.

          1. People claim Tony is just a sock, but does it matter? People DO believe the same shit he does.

            1. I see no more reason to think he is than to think that about any poster here. Lots of people have Tony’s exact views on things, it’s not inconceivable that one might find there way here and enjoy arguing with people. The people who dismiss Tony as a ‘sockpuppet’ strike me as the ones here who just most dislike any substantial disagreement with them.

              1. Bo is becoming Tony’s biggest fan and defender of late. It’s quite hilarious. Almost as funny as watching him cry out against collectivizing people while he collectivizes all SoCons and/or conservatives. He really is his own caricature.

            2. My father, who can be quite thoughtful about many things, feels exactly the same as Tony when it comes to politics and economics. Because I value having a relationship with him (my father, not Tony), I refuse to discuss those topics with him.

      3. right Tony,
        because
        -throwing men into prison based on a rape accusation, with no real trial
        -imprisoning “climate change deniers”
        -taxing everyone to death to start government policies for every minor fucking liberal cause (I once heard a guy claim they need to fund green markets in poor areas to help with health)
        -imprisoning small businesses for not wanting to be a part of the gay agenda, because let’s face it it’s NOT like they’re never going to find someone to make a wedding cake just because ONE guy doesn’t want to do it for them
        and etc. etc.

        Is the same this as “protecting the rights and dignities of minorities”

        whatever you need to tell yourself Tony

    2. At this point, the left has pretty much drank and absorbed the progressive kool-aid. And how someone could square “socially liberal”, at least as libertarians mean it, with the modern progressive perspective is beyond me.

      Exactly. When you or I say we’re socially liberal, we mean it in the real sense of the word liberty. When a progressive says they’re socially liberal they’re referencing a hodgepodge of positions that include forced association and free shit.

  16. Mike Bloomberg is the epitome of “fiscally conservative and socially liberal”.

    So Nick Gillespie is like 90 percent of the way to being _____________?

    1. How is Bloomberg fiscally conservative?

      1. Yeah, not even with his own money

      2. By paying for all his “social liberalism”

        Bloomberg characterizes himself as a fiscal conservative for turning the city’s $6 billion deficit into a $3 billion surplus; however, conservative PAC Club for Growth has criticized him because he increased property taxes and spending while doing so.

        Being a fiscal conservative is not about slashing programs that help the poor, or improve health care, or ensure a social safety net. It’s about insisting services are provided efficiently, get to only the people that need them, and achieve the desired results. Fiscal conservatives have hearts too ? but we also insist on using our brains, and that means demanding results and holding government accountable for producing them.
        To me, fiscal conservatism means balancing budgets ? not running deficits that the next generation can’t afford. It means improving the efficiency of delivering services by finding innovative ways to do more with less. It means cutting taxes when possible and prudent to do so, raising them overall only when necessary to balance the budget, and only in combination with spending cuts. It means when you run a surplus, you save it; you don’t squander it. And most importantly, being a fiscal conservative means preparing for the inevitable economic downturns ? and by all indications, we’ve got one coming.
        ?Michael Bloomberg, speech to UK Conservative Party, September 30, 2007

        1. So he’s the “epitome” of a fiscal conservative because…he calls himself one?

          1. You left out the all-important “socially liberal” half.

            Politicians are generally credited as “fiscally conservative” when they spend no more than they tax

      3. By saying you can save money by NOT buying guns or Super Big Gulps.

  17. This guy is obviously the next Lou Reed.

    1. You’re joking but I could see that.

  18. “He supports medical marijuana though not recreational use and supports driving down the blood alcohol content for legal driving to 0.02 percent, down from 0.08 percent.”

    WTF? You can get that drunk just walking by some dive bars.

    1. Shit I’ll have a .02 10 years after I’m dead although to be fair I probably shouldn’t be driving then.

      1. Yep pretty much…

        …you know I wonder why they haven’t gone for the 0.02 standard. Probably has to do with the fact that lawyers will hammer them on accuracy, and they may finally have to admit that the Intoxilyzer 5000 has a known error. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER FUCKING MEASUREMENT DEVICE IN HUMAN AND LEGAL HISTORY

    2. I support recreational use of medical marihuana.

  19. It’s like, Come on, man, get off it.

    With reasoning like that, he’s clearly a mental giant among midgets.

    And fuck him with a rusty pole for fooling me into thinking I’m going to hear Warren Zevon every time that shitty song of his comes on.

    1. Rusty Pole, good Porn alias.

    2. His hair is perfect

      1. Was perfect, he’ll eat your lungs out Jim

  20. “the social issues kill me ? gay marriage and abortion.”

    No, abortion hasn’t killed *you.* But it has killed a *lot* of human beings.

    1. Awesome.

    2. No, abortion hasn’t killed *you.* But it has killed a *lot* of human beings.

      Not as many as mayo and deep dish.

  21. [celebrity] endorses [position/candidate], therefore:

    a) Republicans should stop focusing on [abortion/gay marriage]

    b) Millenials are [tired of/excited by] the [two party system/libertarianism]

    c) [obscure lit major bullshit/obscure English major bullshit]

    ^The last 6 months of Gillespie articles.

    Jesus, at least put up Lobster Girl every once in a while.

    1. a. libertarian Reason writer writes something critical of the GOP or conservatives

      b. the Immaculate Trouser, admittedly not a libertarian, disagrees and complains

      ^The last 6 months, well, entirety of Trouser comments.

      Jesus, at least put up Beauty Pageant Sarah Palin every once in a while.

      1. what the fuck is “Beauty Pageant Sarah Palin”?
        Fucking troll, die in a fire

      2. a. Reason writer writes an article about mouse farts on a sinking ship

        b. Bo posts links about evil SoCons and/or conservatives

        ^ The last 6 months, well, the entirety of Bo’s comments

  22. Someone shoulda axed him how he feels about being the progenitor of Bro-country.

    1. Sure as hell beats the Eagles-ripoff easy-listening drivel that dominated country music before that. There’s a reason that Shooter Jennings recorded “Let’s Put The ‘O’ Back In Country” a decade ago.

  23. Except for a tiny handful of out-of-touch cosmotarians “socially liberal” means something profoundly different than “classically liberal” or “socially libertarian”. You’d have to go back to late 19th century Germany to find any interpretation that could pass for voluntary (Zeiss comes to mind) although that would too closely resemble Ford Motor Company’s later Sociological Department or a Cohay logging camp or some other “company town” concept the socially liberal would totally hate.

  24. I’m trying to figure out when “the private sphere” has stopped anyone from doing anything. Segregation? Nope, government. Gay marriage bans? Nope, government. And uh… nope, government too. Oh wait, the… nope, that was government too. Oh there was that one… nope, that was government too. Ok then. Carry on.

    1. I’m trying to figure out when “the private sphere” has stopped anyone from doing anything. Segregation? Nope, government.

      Let’s not forget that the private sector did nothing–nothing–to end the war in Iraq. That was government all the way, baby.

      What’s the private sector good for if it can’t end mandatory state segregation, state wars, or state bans on whatever form of miscegenation that’s offensive this century? It’s almost like government has the monopoly of violence and private, peaceful actors are helpless in their response to overwhelming force.

    2. I’m thinking you’ve got causation problems.

      See, government enforced segregation, the people–the ‘private sphere’ said no, caused a ruckus, and forced government to rescind segregation and promote integration.

      Likewise gay marriage bans.

      But you go ahead and believe that all the good stuff proceeds with glory from Government

    3. You seem to forget that some members of the “private sphere” have billions of dollars to influence government with. Gay marriage bans? Mormon companies bankrolled the Prop 8 campaigns. Gambling? Sheldon Analcunt is makin’ it rain for the politicians doing his will. Maybe it’s indirect, but yes, there are some “private sphere” participants keeping us from enjoying true personal freedom.

  25. I love the idea of being able to respond to liberal nonsense with

    “BAWITDABA, BITCH!”

    1. Illiberal*
      there is nothing liberal about a modern day liberal

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