NYPD

The Night Before the Shooting of 2 NYPD Officers, Pro-NYPD Protesters Rallied Outside City Hall

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On Friday, December 19, 2014, just one day before the shocking execution-style murder of two NYPD officers, about 100 pro-NYPD demonstrators gathered outside City Hall, where they were met by about 200 counter-demonstrators in what turned into a tense night filled with loud, heated rhetoric. Reason TV was on hand to cover the rally, which you can watch in the above video. 

Some in the pro-NYPD crowd wore shirts reading "I Can Breathe" and chanted things like "Don't resist" and "Thank you, NYPD." On the other side of the barricades came chants such as "How do you spell racist? NYPD!" and "Black Lives Matter!" 

Mayor Bill de Blasio has called for a suspension of the protests, which erupted three weeks ago after a Staten Island grand jury declined to indict the officer who put Eric Garner in a banned chokehold, until after Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos are laid to rest. Judging by the flaring tempers at last Friday's rally, it seems unlikely that the anger on either side of the issue will ebb any time soon. 

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  1. Reporter: Statistically, it’s never been safer to be a police officer.

    NYPD Supporter: I don’t want to live in a world without law enforcement.

    So there you go.

  2. It’s amazing not only how many people willingly, mindlessly want to subjugate themselves to whatever authority, but how militant they are about it.

    1. But the boogeyman! He’s out there, ready to rape our women and enslave our children!

      1. The boogie mans not so bad

        http://youtu.be/PJysQxMnPKE

        1. I did forget about this though

          http://m.clevescene.com/scene-…..-sex-abuse

          1. Licking County

            Right.

        2. Muffin Man

          (If you’re unfamiliar with Zappa’s work, please “stick it out” until 1:28.)

    2. RULE ME! TELL ME WHAT TO DO! AGENCY AND FREEDOM ARE TOO HARD!

      Look, I’ll even slide under your boot myself! See? Please hit me master!

        1. I didn’t think I’d ever prefer the Velvet Underground rendition, but Beck was a little to faithful in his Lou Reed impression.

    3. Eh. Like it or not, cops are the only reason society doesn’t fall it apart.

      Look at what happened in Ferguson. Over and over. Every time the cops stood down, people looted and later burned down buildings. That’s what would happen all the time if cops didn’t exist.

      Some here seem to have this vigilante fantasy that they can mow down waves of looters/criminals all on their own. Well, even if you are Rambo, you have to sleep sometimes.

      Or that is we didn’t have laws, we wouldn’t have criminals. Because the people shooting each other are forced to it because we have jaywalking laws.

      There are many valid criticisms of police – their harassment of people filming them, using SWAT on raids, killing dogs, but they are very necessary.

      1. They are necessary for the punishment of actual criminals like rapists, murderers, and thieves. However, they have been turned into objects of hero worship by absolute morons to the extent that cops are never held accountable for their actions, abuse the rights of the citizenry with impunity, and cover up for their fellow officers without consequences.

        A police force is necessary. The current police force as it exists in America is a fucking abomination.

        1. “A police force is necessary.”

          I think professional, governmental police forces are a somewhat recent thing, right? If so they’re not really necessary.

      2. What a load of shit. The Ferguson situation was created in large part by years of abusive policing.

        cops are the only reason society doesn’t fall it apart.

        Nice tiger-repelling rock you got there.

      3. So… police are mowing down waves of looters and criminals so that I don’t have to? That’s what it’s taking to keep society from falling apart?

  3. Read this police fanboi vomit and try to make it all the way to the end without puking too.

    1. I was shocked — SHOCKED! — that “End the WoD” was not a suggest***barf***

  4. Was there a crowd who thinks the police are abusive without their abuse being specifically targeted at blacks, but rather at anyone not a cop? The wholesale hijacking of the issue of the police state by progressives with a racial narrative is as nauseating as the police fanboys.

    1. Agreed. Not going to come up with a good solution when the problems been so grossly misdiagnosed.

    2. Pro-NYPD: “There’s nothing to see here!”
      Anti-NYPD: “Yeah.. if you’re white!”
      Radley Balko: “…”

    1. James Cameron beat ya to it.

      1. I see what you did there… Now I have to wipe perfectly good porter off of my phone

        1. There’s no such thing as good porter. :-p

          (So says the freak who doesn’t like carbonated beverages.)

          1. Note to self: Hold Ted S.’s opinion on wine with the same regard as Cytotoxic’s opinions on film.

            1. Second note to self: disregard first note, and stop confusing porter with port.

            2. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Porter is a beer and Port is a wine.

              1. You’re wrong.

                (actually, you’re not, but I just have an urge to contradict you)

                  1. What’s your point?

              2. Yeah, hence my second post. For some reason I read “port” instead of “porter”.

    2. Did something happen to a smurf?

      1. And +1 without the beer snort

  5. Why do people get all bent out of shape everytime some cop gets clipped in the line of duty. Getting shot at comes with the job. Especially when you abuse your powers all day and trample on the rights of citizens.

    http://www.Anon-Wayz.tk

    1. Wow, AnonBot. The singularity is truly near.

    2. Anon-Bot is getting hardcore tonight.

    3. AnonBot = Rebel scum?

  6. So I just stumbled on Robby Soave’s initial article about the UVA rape story, and man, some of the comments at the end of that article are fucking crazy:

    When I was in college, a very popular fraternity had a room in it that was painted black with one lightbulb hanging from the ceiling and one bed in it. That was the sex room. The frat brothers would get the girls as drunk as they possibly could (in those days, it was punch bowls with grain alcohol), drag them into the room and gang rape them. I saw it happen, I saw the room. I won’t say anything more, but I am ashamed to say I did nothing about it. I didn’t tell anyone about it for many years. The Rolling Stone story – her story – is extremely credible to me.

    A random person on the internet admits to being an accessory to multiple gang rapes without any substantiating evidence. Sounds legit!

    1. What is immigration policy like on your planet? It sounds like a really nice place to live, and I might consider moving there.

      I live on a sometimes rather backward planet called “Earth,” in a country called “the United States of America.” Sadly, it is actually fairly commonplace here for friends and even family members of rape victims to dismiss, minimize, or outright and openly disbelieve them. Even when they’re bruised. Even when they’re bleeding. Even when they’re obviously severely traumatized.

      The idea of living in a place where such behavior is considered “cartoonishly evil” rather than “distressingly normal” is quite appealing. What are the requirements for obtaining a visa?

      This person believes that viciously brutalized gang rape victims are constantly being ignored by their best friends.

      No wonder feminist arguments are always so irrational – they appear to exist in some sort of alternate reality in which roving bands of rape-cannibals roam the land in Hummers gang raping random women while their families look on with a total lack of sympathy.

      1. Then again, replace “rape cannibals” with “police” and you’ve just described the average Reason writer/commenter.

        1. Then again, replace “rape cannibals” with “police” and you’ve just described the average Reason writer/commenter.

          I think most complaints about cops on Reason are completely reasonable, minus a few nutcases who actively applaud when a cop gets shot.

          You’ll notice that when an actual rape occurs the man is punished if it can be proven he committed the crimes. Given that cops can be caught on film shooting an unarmed man to death from behind and suffer no consequences, I hardly think Reason’s complaints about them are on par with feminist delusions about rape culture.

          In the Tamir Rice shooting a police officer pulled up within ten feet of a 12 year old, got out of his car, and shot the kid to death before he even had a chance to put down his toy gun. I’m already assuming the cop will not be indicted and I will almost certainly be proven right.

        2. I will never get tired of cop fellators whining that we aren’t nice enough to the police. Like, I don’t think it’s possible to get tired of that level of whimpering.

        3. STOP BEING MEANIES TO THE POLICE HEROES /servile peonn

      2. Well what do you expect? Did you see how they were dressed?

        1. With one damn light bulb? How am I supposed to see?

      3. Y’know Irish, you really haven’t lived until you’ve locked eyes with the vacant and expressionless gaze of a doting father of your favorite nubile 18 year old fucktoy as you and nine of your closest buddies turn her into a human version of Promontory Point, Utah.

        1. Didn’t know your mother was that accommodating?

      4. Salon: Have a rapey Christmas, you religious dinosaurs

        http://hotair.com/archives/201…..dinosaurs/

        1. Bizarre. So much of today’s leftist press seems like it was written by stoned, ill-tempered college students.

          “Hey man, [toke], think about it: the Virgin Mary was raped by God!”

          “Far out, dude!”

      5. ” roving bands of rape-cannibals roam the land in Hummers gang raping random women”

        They’re scary, but pretty easy to avoid if you stay away from gas stations.

        1. You did something there I saw.

    2. “A random person on the internet admits to being an accessory to multiple gang rapes without any substantiating evidence. Sounds legit!”

      S/he also found no buyers for bullshit that deep.

    3. It’s a ludicrous story (the one lightbulb and one bed in the room, sheesh), but I don’t think he’d be an “accessory”

      1. My favorite line in that obviously fake story is ‘That was the sex room.’ You can tell that he thought this would shock us, as if we didn’t know where he was going with it.

  7. Garner didn’t die from a “banned chokehold”, which even if it was banned, lasted only a few seconds in the middle of a struggle he insisted on verbally and physically,and that hold never caused a dangerous breathing restriction. That’s the truth clearly visible from video, and confirmed by the medical examiner. Including that little lie makes you culpable either by accident or laziness in the ongoing destruction which is overwhelmingly driven by lies. It turns out that despite their best effort to create an air of being above the normal uninformed biases, many libertarians just stroke a slightly different set of them.

    1. Well your mother never minded the chokehold either so I understand your sentiment

    2. How is it “clearly visible from video” that the hold “never caused a dangerous breathing restriction?”

      1. Well I could hear him say he couldn’t breath, I know the cops could. he was not in anyway threaten any of them. They should have let up and made sure he was ok.

    3. What about what you stroke when you think of cops and authority?

    4. and that hold never caused a dangerous breathing restriction.

      He’s dead

      1. So is Joe Cocker. Did he have a dangerous breathing restriction too?

        1. So is Joe Cocker. Did he have a dangerous breathing restriction too?

          Seeing as he died from lung cancer, yes.

          1. The fact that your lungs can’t transfer oxygen doesn’t affect your ability to breathe.

            1. Yes, a squamous cell carcinoma obstructing the airways of your lungs doesn’t affect one’s ability to breathe.

              Sounds legit.

            2. Even I’m not that fucking stupid.

              1. Reason really should use a font that distinguishes capital eyes and lowercase ells.

    5. Would this be the same medical examiner who confirmed that the hold resulted in Garner’s death? Are you here to mince words about whether the abusive hold or the aftermath killed Garner more?

      1. It seems bagoh is referring to how the initial report was that Garner died from a heart attack. Which sounds awfully like “it’s wasn’t the bullet that killed him, it was his heart stopping!”

        1. ‘it’s wasn’t the bullet that killed him, he suffered lead poisoning’

          1. “It was the hypovolemic shock that killed him.”

            1. That too!
              See, it had nothing to do with, uh, what were we discussing?

        2. Yeah, seriously. Lost in the dimwitted rhetoric parsing the news stories is the rather paramount fact that a confrontation over a minor vice crime led to a man’s death at the hands of several officers. And somehow we’re to be assuaged by the fact that it might have been the chest compression or the restraints that did him in, not merely choking him. Right. I’ll get right back to Bagoh after I feel better about the rest of it.

    6. The medical report was clear that chest compression led to oxygen deprivation which potentiated the heart attack. You can take your ‘accuracy’ lecture and shove in your ass along with your local PD’s dick.

  8. While I’m glad the shooter in this case killed himself, how would it have been if instead he was caught and a Grand Jury indicted him on shooting his girlfriend but did not indict for shooting the cops. I’m not saying that would be the right thing to do but that would certainly make things interesting.

    1. Not that he would have been taken alive.

  9. No charges for Milwaukee officer involved in fatal shooting

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/22/…..?hpt=hp_t2

    1. I’d like to see it just to see more foaming-at-the-mouth misogynistic rage coming from the left.

      1. In fairness, a Carly Fiorina run could very well result in some foaming-at-the-mouth misogynistic rage from Irish.

        Carly Fiorina just kind of has that effect on people.

        She also has that impact on demon-sheep.

        1. I approve of the devil music. Did M. Night Shyamalan direct that? I’m sure that it will be pointed out that McCain picked Sarah Palin over Carly Fiorina for his VP spot.

    2. That would be funny if the egotistical assclown actually runs. Maybe Carly will finally reach her terminal level of incompetence. She’s fucked up everything else in her wake.

  10. INDEPENDENTS ASSEMBLE, to nothing at all!

    1. I never watch it anyways

      1. They’ll put that in the next Two Minutes’ Hate to try to get you to watch.

        1. Shit I can’t even get a hay tip much less a shout out:)

          1. hat tip. maybe my clumsy typing has something to do with it.

      2. I watched once. I know why I won’t again.

      3. AlmightyJB|12.22.14 @ 9:01PM|#
        “I never watch it anyways”

        We know GILMORE’s always willing to take one for the team.
        To be honest, I have no idea which is the local Comcast Fox News channel.

        1. In SF it’s channel 130.

      1. I make my own opportunities, byotch.

  11. OT: Cheese.

    1. You cut a wheel of Brie radially rather than tangentially? AGREE WITH ME AND I WILL LET YOU LIVE!

      1. You throw a wheel of Brie in the trash because Brie sucks.

          1. Just tits and clits

          2. I’ve tried to like Brie. I’ve given it a few tries. Just not feelin’ it.

            1. Brie on green apple slices?

              1. Don’t recall. Probably crackers or something.

              2. Dweebston|12.22.14 @ 9:24PM|#
                “Brie on green apple slices?”
                A blue on apples, please.

                1. Oh, and with a really meaty Cabernet.

                  1. I don’t drink wine. Too acidic.

                  2. with a really meaty Cabernet.

                    NTTAWWT.

            2. Take a wheel of Brie, slice off the top mold thing (I don’t like that part), take a bunch of walnuts, pecans, dried cranberries, and dried cherries and shove it all as good as you can into the cheese. Then bake it at 350F for about 10 min. Eat it with something cruchy and bready and/or apple slices. You might like it then.

        1. DON’T TALK SHIT ABOUT ALISON BRIE

          1. Oh, I would eat Alison Brie every day. In fact, I wish that was my job.

            1. I don’t know what I was thinking, dude, I apologize. Here.

          2. I’m glad SOMEONE is defending Brie.

            A shot of her latest work.

      2. Suddenly Quincy|12.22.14 @ 9:16PM|#
        “You cut a wheel of Brie radially rather than tangentially?”

        If it’s good brie, it doesn’t matter; it sags into a random pile as soon as you break the rind.

        1. Now, a sharp, white cheddar by comparison…

            1. Definitely, a white sharp cheddar.

            2. Racist!

  12. A chokehold does not compress the chest, but watch the video and judge for yourself if that hold did it. It’s pretty dangerous to insist that the cops either let you serially break the law right in front of them or throw down on the street. That’s the choice he gave them. Depending on how much you insist on getting physical, getting compressed is pretty likely at some point if you tell the cops you will not be arrested. Do you guys have a better S.O.P for this situation? Would you expect it to be executed perfectly every time. If it was, do you think nobody would ever die at the hands of police?

    1. I think I would not escalate minor bullshit into violence.

      1. Cops have to escalate everything. They should be trying to deescalate but they’re too stupid.

        1. Unlike libertarians, who could enforce the laws without having to resort to violence. How exactly they would advise police to do this is not yet clear. Jedi mind tricks, maybe.

          1. Not driving up to 12-year olds and immediately shooting them or choking someone out are only ‘jedi mind tricks’ for violent mongoloids and their supporters.

            1. So how do you recommend they enforce the law?

              1. Do whatever the Europeans are doing. Or-radical thought-don’t put ‘enforcing the law’ as your number one priority. Put it aside for the cause of keeping the peace.

          2. Fuck you Tulpa.

            Perhaps if all laws required victims, there would be more libertarian tolerance toward restraining criminals.

            1. If you don’t like the law change the law.

              And we’re not talking about protecting fugitive slaves so please don’t bring up that canard. Nobody’s rights are violated because you failed to roll illegal cigs.

              1. Tulpa, you are a piece of human excrement. A vile, immoral piece of shit and a proven liar.

                Your words are meaningless here.

                1. Funny how you waited until it was obvious you were losing the argument to call a technical.

                  1. He wasn’t breaking any laws at the time he was killed, so what the fuck are you running your idiot mouth about?

                  2. He wasn’t selling loosies when he was murdered. FAIL

    2. bagoh20|12.22.14 @ 9:17PM|#
      …”It’s pretty dangerous to insist that the cops either let you serially break the law right in front of them or throw down on the street. That’s the choice he gave them”…

      So they killed him.
      Now, I have a question for you: Would you agree with the result if the law was jaywalking?

      1. Of course! Otherwise it’s Somalia out there in the war zone.

        1. Thin blue line and all that, right?
          I know jaywalkers have certainly threatened me!

          1. It said “Don’t Walk”!

            1. (INSERT LINK TO SOUTH PARK)

      2. Every law is backed by the concept of we will escalate until you submit, come cage or death. They may decide for political reasons not to enforce certain laws, but the threat still exists.

        1. What alternative means do you propose for enforcing the law?

          1. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:05PM|#
            “What alternative means do you propose for enforcing the law?”

            What false dichotomy do you propose.
            Between you and the slimy Bo, I’m sure there is a worse prick, but I’ll leave it to others to decide.

            1. It’s not a false dichotomy if there really is no middle ground.

              I’m asking for someone to suggest a middle ground.

              1. Don’t enforce stupid laws. Do whatever the jurisdictions with less homicide by police do.

      3. Ultimately, all laws must be backed by the threat of lethal force.

        Consider Eileen DiNino, who died because she… didn’t pay truancy fines.

        Of course, the bastards who left her to die weren’t charged.

    3. That’s the choice he gave them.

      That’s a fucking lie. Garner did nothing to instigate the pigs’ violent actions.

      1. He didn’t immediately crumple into a prone position upon contact. He waited until they had to kill him first.

        1. Then rigor mortis set in. STOP RESISTING!1!!

    4. Who am I going to believe, your doubtlessly extensive review of the evidence or this lying goddamn medical examiner.

      Eric Garner, a black man whose confrontation with a white police officer has prompted calls by the Rev. Al Sharpton for federal prosecution, was killed by neck compressions from the chokehold and “the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” city medical examiner spokeswoman Julie Bolcer said.

      I also question your argument that Garner was trying to ‘throw down.’ Could you please explain to me what law Eric Garner was breaking at the time of his death? Because Eric Garner was not selling loosies when he died. The police stopped him without cause. There is no evidence whatsoever that they actually saw him selling loosies.

      Your argument is therefore that it’s okay for the police to randomly harass people with no cause and that any negative reaction on the part of the public is worth a potential death sentence.

      1. Your argument is therefore that it’s okay for the police to randomly harass people

        Just so long as they’re icky poor people with little legal recourse, the sort you wouldn’t want stalking up on you in the middle of the night, I think that’s pretty much exactly what bagoh wants.

    5. This again? Somebody died because of an un-packaged cigarette transaction. Two more people may have died because of a reaction to said police interaction. Let’s go on and analyze this like a high school wresting coach fussing over how he lost the State finals.

    6. A chokehold does not compress the chest, but watch the video and judge for yourself if that hold did it. It’s pretty dangerous to insist that the cops either let you serially break the law right in front of them or throw down on the street. That’s the choice he gave them.

      The man was a 400 pound diabetic with asthma. The choice he gave them was to watch and laugh as he ran half a city block before collapsing into a wheezing mess.

      1. And they would know his medical history how exactly?

        1. They should probably assume to massive blob of fat is not that strong.

    7. Do you guys have a better S.O.P for this situation?

      Yeah. Don’t harass citizens for breaking ridiculous, immoral laws.

      1. Not enforcing the law is not an option for law enforcement. It would violate their essential quiddity.

        1. Actually, it is 100% an option. Keeping the peace, not enforcing the law.

        2. The police were not enforcing any law when they killed him. They arrested him for no reason because they knew him from previous encounters and decided to fuck with him, then callously let him die from their actions. That you defend them does not reflect well on you.

    8. As someone who’s job is to physically restrain without any injury, let alone death, let me say, SOP should include not killing the target. An imperfect restraint should not result in death.

      1. All we need to solve this problem is tens of thousands of you restraint experts to volunteer to patrol the streets 24/7 surrounded by human refuse for shitty pay.

        1. surrounded by human refuse

          The Aristocrats!

        2. European cops manage not to kill very often. If only American cops were as good.

        3. Guy selling loosies = refuse

          Guy killing guy selling loosies = hero.

          Fuck off Tulpa. You disgust me, you immoral pig.

          1. If Garner had been guilty of a “real crime” like say trespassing, would you change your position and say killing him was justifiable?

            1. If they had a grad student from MIT, would you still be applauding his death?

              1. I’m not applauding his death. His level of educational attainment would be irrelevant to my ratiocination on this matter, however.

            2. Garner, was guilty of NO CRIME, you fucking moron. They killed an innocent man. And you, Tulpa, are an immoral pig.

              1. That’s not what I was asking.

                I’m trying to separate out whether your disapproval of the incident is about the law that was being enforced or the actual act that led to his death. You keep bouncing back and forth between the two.

                1. Tulpa, why do you keep coming back here? You are a bigger shitbag than Tony or BP. You are a proven liar and you have ZERO credibility. Everyone here looks upon you with disdain and disgust. There is no having an honest discussion with you as you are a lying cunt.

                  Leave and don’t come back.

                  1. I have to admit, I was thinking about leaving for good last week, but then a Dr. Pepper commercial came on the radio. In it Macklemore talked about how much grief he got for being different, and about how the world needs unique people even when it acts like it doesn’t. And I realized he could have been talking about me.

                2. Standards should be kept and the conduct of cops should be rigorously policed. I don’t care if they’re tearing cannibal rapists off victims, it’s not in the cop’s purview to mete out justice or to stray outside the confines of maintaing the peace. Yes, this means expecting cops to exercise restraint and a degree of discretion when questioning whether an arrest upholds civility or tarnishes it. In Garner’s case, the arrest and its execution clearly did violence to any notion of justice or peace. So, yes, if the conditions incident to the arrest do not warrant it or if the brutality of the arrest so greatly exceeds the alleged crime, no social or communal need obtains from enforcing the law.

                  And yours is a question-begging argument as to the legitimacy of the arrest in the first place. What crime did this man commit? The officers were there on legitimate business, just as their victim was. Do you not think that a culture of unreciprocated responsibility between itchy trigger-fingered cops and their victims led to this man’s death? Is it really too much to ask that police be held accountable for cantankerous behavior?

                  1. Standards should be kept and the conduct of cops should be rigorously policed.

                    In a perfect world, yes. And when it comes to cops abusing innocent people I agree that the standards of conduct should be high.

                    But you’re living in a fantasy world if you think you can keep the peace in a city of 8 million people with a force consisting only of folks who carefully weigh all the impacts of their coercive actions. You need tens of thousands of cops and you can’t afford to pay them that much (unless libertarianism is suddenly going to sanction high taxes to pay for giving only expert psychologists badges).

                    If you put a cop in a situation where he needs to use violence, his priorities are going to be (a) doing his job and (b) not getting killed. Not necessarily in that order of course. I know that it’s terrible that rookie cops aren’t all budding Jon Stewart Mills but that is the way of the world.

                    1. So any attempt at extracting an ounce of accountability is just so much wasted breath, then? At this point, I’m given to think it’s the ridiculous televised spectacles made out of certain cases that keeps the majority of cops on what passes for the straight and narrow in their line of work.

                    2. That’s not what I said.

                      I said the cops should be held to a high standard in their dealings with innocent and/or cooperative people.

                      But if they get put in a position of having to arrest someone I’m going to give them some leeway in dealing with resistance. Sorry, that’s how it has to work.

                    3. “It’s only sockpuppeting if you are posting things you agree with under your real name.”

                      I still can’t get over how stupid I sound. By the way, fuck niggers.

                    4. You’re not a sockpuppet; you’re an identity thief. Which is much worse.

                    5. you can’t afford to pay them that much

                      They are already over paid and in exchange we get murder and abuse.

                      Fuck you Tulpa.

                3. The correct answer is both. It was immoral to enforce these laws, and even if it weren’t the escalation of violence was unnecessary and murderous.

                  Fuck you Tulpa.

  13. The momentary chokehold was clearly not the cause of death, nor likely even a necessary contributing factor – he would have died without it, so I’m pretty suspicious of the motives or fairness of people who put it front and center when assigning blame. It reminds me of how even if you are broadsided while waiting at a stop sign, that you are the one often held responsible if you blow a marginal BAC. Like cops looking for an easy DUI on their watch, you jump on the non-essential fact to blame the person you want to.

    1. It should never have gotten to that point to begin with, there was no reason to escalate a minor infraction into violence. The cops assaulted him and then killed him. It doesn’t matter how.

      1. There was no minor infraction to even escalate. The cops assaulted Garner for no reason other than they were familiar with him from previous encounters and decided to fuck with him.

    2. bagoh20|12.22.14 @ 9:30PM|#
      “The momentary chokehold was clearly not the cause of death, nor likely even a necessary contributing factor – he would have died without it,”

      You’ve made this claim a couple of times, and Irish responds with a link to the medical examiner.
      So now I have TWO questions for you: You got any evidence? Or are you just bullshitting?
      Put up or shut up; simple.

      1. And you’re hinting that the cops’ efforts were not the cause of death; I’m presuming that’s your point, correct?
        You’re claiming the guy would have died just moseying down the street?

    3. “he would have died without it, so I’m pretty suspicious of the motives or fairness of people who put it front and center when assigning blame.”

      Yeah, the chokehold didn’t kill Garner. The 3 cops on top of him did. Is that your defense?

    4. The medical report, DID YOU READ IT?

      1. No he didn’t. It’s been posted twice and the medical examiner directly states that the compression of the neck was partially responsible for the death.

        This is irrelevant, however, because Bagoh simply will not believe it.

        1. He believes it, he simply chooses to lie about it.

    5. The momentary chokehold was clearly not the cause of death, nor likely even a necessary contributing factor – he would have died without it, so I’m pretty suspicious of the motives or fairness of people who put it front and center when assigning blame.

      Are you seriously arguing that we shouldn’t complain about the chokehold because the cops would have killed him either way?

      It’s certainly an original defense of cop-murder, I’ll give you that.

      How about this: When a man is yelling that he can’t breathe as three large police officers lay on top of him, the police officers should stop laying on top of him. That way, people won’t be smothered to death by cops and people like you won’t have to show that you’re soulless monsters as you desperately attempt to justify police homicides.

      1. I did see that. Cops for a number of reasons don’t seem to usually handle it very well when a citizen insists on his rights being respected. They don’t seem to fear breaking the law in these cases, and many seem to be exceptionally unfit for the job. This is partly due to lax enforcement of civil rights. They need to have some fear of violating the law, and much of this behavior should be career ending.

        Wow, Bagoh a year ago seems like a pretty cool guy.

        1. Maybe he abandoned his handle it got jacked?

    6. Again? Back to Althouse with ya.

  14. What up, reasonoids? Anyone know a browser I can comment on that is iPhone 5 compatible? I’m dying at work and I think I’m the guy marked to turn on the lights and make sure the place doesn’t catch fire tomorrow.

      1. I’ll try it.

    1. It may or mayn’t be the same issue, but I have to toggle desktop mode to comment from any of the couple browser apps I’ve tried out on my android.

    2. Don’t use IpHone 5? :-p

  15. My information is that after numerous arrests, and complaints by locals the cops came to do what they are paid for. He said a number of things to the cops including something like “This ends today”, and other indications that he was neither going to stop breaking the law nor submit to arrest. I don’t know what you expect cops to do then. Walk away?

    They expected to arrest him and process him as usual. If you really think they wanted to kill him, how does that work out for them? I think the last thing any cop wants to do is kill an unarmed citizen on a crowded street on video.

    1. So you have no evidence for your claim and now you’re going to shove the goal posts somewhere over there and my goodness people should obey the cops and bullshit, bullshit, bullshit?

      Hint: Quit now; you’ve proven to be an ignoramus and it’s not gonna get better.

    2. I think the last thing any cop wants to do is kill an unarmed citizen on a crowded street on video.

      And yet they still fucking did it.

    3. My information is that after numerous arrests, and complaints by locals the cops came to do what they are paid for.

      And what they’re paid to do is enforce the punishment for a victimless crime which only exists because of attempts at leftist social engineering. I hope progs are happy that Eric Garner died in service to their better world.

      He said a number of things to the cops including something like “This ends today”, and other indications that he was neither going to stop breaking the law nor submit to arrest. I don’t know what you expect cops to do then. Walk away?

      First off, according to one of the people talking during the video of Garner’s death, Garner first came to their attention as he was breaking up a fight. They then attempted to punish him for a minor offense that should not even be a crime. He was upset that he was being punished essentially for being a good Samaritan. He didn’t want to ‘submit to arrest’ because he hadn’t done anything wrong.

      They expected to arrest him and process him as usual. If you really think they wanted to kill him, how does that work out for them?

      I think they killed him through gross negligence, not on purpose. If a doctor cuts the wrong artery, it is my understanding that they’re still liable for the death even if they didn’t mean for the patient to die.

    4. Furthermore, watch this fucking video.

      Please explain what exactly Garner did that necessitated putting him in that chokehold? Explain to me what action he took, what threat he posed to the officer.

      The officer escalated the violence when Eric Garner had done absolutely nothing. If the officer unnecessarily escalates the violence and a citizen is killed, it is the officer’s fault. Period.

      1. Please explain what exactly Garner did that necessitated putting him in that chokehold?

        He didn’t SUBMIT and OBEY?

    5. I think the last thing any cop wants to do is kill an unarmed citizen on a crowded street on video.

      Yet, they did.

    6. I don’t know what you expect cops to do then. Walk away?

      De-escalate the situation. That’s what trained professionals are supposed to do.

  16. “I think the last thing any cop wants to do is kill an unarmed citizen on a crowded street on video.”

    And we know this because, when asked, all cops said so.

    1. That’s the most retarded thing I’ve seen in weeks. Nice vag that young man has.

      1. That wasn’t a real school. I know this because schools are gun free zones. It’s literally impossible, as in, violates the laws of physics impossible, for a gun to exist in such spaces.

        1. Also note that people have gotten in trouble in schools for turning in contraband, because in the process of doing so they are “possessing” it.

    2. And later that night a robber breaks in. Dad goes to get the gun and, WTF. Family shot and killed. More evidence that guns are bad.

    3. The best part is that if you look at the barrel, you can clearly see it’s a BB or airsoft gun.

      Excellent derp. I hereby present you with your derploma, with first class honors.

  17. Question. I’m currently living in Japan and have spent about 3 weeks total in the US over the past 20 years so I don’t know what it’s like on the ground there. The cops here and other places I’ve lived in East Asia are no where near the arrogant pricks I remember US cops to be. My question is, given the type of people that chose to be cops in the US, does it really matter how much legislative restraint you put them under? Maybe make being a cop like jury duty and choose randomly?

      1. Me? No. Just a wanderer. You’ve spent time in Okinawa? 25 years in right?

        1. No, I’ve never been stationed overseas. Got a buddy who lives in Okinawa, however. Works at Kadena.

          1. Ask your buddy about the cops here. It’s night and day compared with American cops. My wife, who is Japanese, laid into a cop for randomly stopping me to check my bicycle registration. By the time she was done, the cop was apologizing profusely. Unfathomable that would happen in the US.

            1. OTOH – you have to deal with stifling Japanese Bureaucracy. the sort of people who thinks its fine and appropriate to ‘register bicycles’.

              I lived in Yokosuka for a year and a half (’96 – ’97).

                1. Is it lower than in the US (North Korea, Russia) or higher? All I know that the US conviction rate is goddamn high. And there were acquittals in Stalin’s Russia.

  18. “Hint: Quit now; you’ve proven to be an ignoramus and it’s not gonna get better.”

    A compassionate and responsible person would just say “shutup” rather than thoroughly choke every last breath of self-esteem from a swollen, over-confident ignorant fool like me who has few other options than to stand here and comment as best I can in your well-ordered community that has no room for me. I deserve no better. You have hurt me very badly,and I submit to your superiority and obey.

    1. A compassionate and responsible person would just say “shutup””

      OK!

    2. bagoh20|12.22.14 @ 10:41PM|#
      “Hint: Quit now; you’ve proven to be an ignoramus and it’s not gonna get better.”
      “A compassionate and responsible person would just say “shutup” rather than…”

      You really are new here, aren’t you? Neither me nor any other poster here owes some whacko cop-licker one bit of compassion.
      I notice you also somehow haven’t managed to find a lot of compassion for the guy the cops murdered and you have tried to justify.
      So let’s be clear: Fuck you, you miserable piece of shit!
      Is that compassionate enough?

      1. “This is libertarian turf and if you want to be here you suck up to libertarian dogma.”

        Such a sad state for a once-diverse commentariat to descend into.

        1. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:17PM|#
          “This is libertarian turf and if you want to be here you suck up to libertarian dogma.”
          You used quotes there, asshole. Don’t put words in my mouth, asshole. Is that clear, asshole?

          “Such a sad state for a once-diverse commentariat to descend into.”
          Yes, very sad when a lying POS demands victimhood status foe being called on bullshit.
          I’ll try to find my sympathy face. Naah, I won’t.

        2. The world’s smallest violin plays for you Tulpa.

          Fuck you Tulpa.

  19. “Ya comm fra da subbars” – You come from the suburbs. Dude’s got a point. Eric Garner would not have sold any loosies on Long Island. He’d have been quickly and quietly escorted right back to the City by the local cops. So what the suburb lady (presumably!) sees as an injustice in the City never happens where she lives. But she doesn’t know why and thinks she’s standing on the moral high-ground.

  20. FUUUUUUCK! Watching Benigni’s Life is Wonderful for the first time. Thanks all you collectivist fucks for being the reason this movie could be made.

    You shit eating ass-licking scum. Go throw yourself off a fucking cliff or set yourselves on fire.

    I didn’t know what it was about and then my wife and daughter started it and I thought it was going to be a rom-com and then FUUUUUUUUUUCK!

    Fuck all of you lefty and collectivist assholes with rusty barbed wire.

    I carry this loathing with me all the time but I rarely let it boil over. It’s a good thing I’m not with a lefty now or at the very least there would be a shouting match and maybe even violence.

    FUUUUUUUCK!

    1. You didn’t know it was about the Holocaust? That’s sort of funny, that is.

      The other genocide comedy made about the same time was “Jakob the Liar” with Robin Williams.

      For some reason the Holocaust comedy genre never caught on.

      You might say it went up in smoke.

      1. For some reason the Holocaust comedy genre never caught on.

        And here I thought Half-Baked was a Holocaust slapstick film.

      2. Wait, Cheech and Chong did a holocaust movie?

    2. Life is Beautiful

      I don’t recommend watching his Pinocchio.

  21. “De-escalate the situation. That’s what trained professionals are supposed to do.”

    Please explain how this would work. He continues to serially violate laws the cops did not put in place, yet are paid to enforce, and the local businesses asked them to enforce. How do they serve those requirements and also avoid arresting people who refuse to stop. If they must arrest people who refuse to follow the law, how can they assure that a 300 pound guy who refuses to be arrested is arrested safely?

    If you just don’t want the law to exist, why would your preference have superior authority over the duly installed laws of the community and the cops who are hired to uphold them?

    Again, even with all this time and 20/20 hindsight to inform, what would be better policy that would work safely every time in this situation with human beings, adrenaline, and the unknown mental and physical health issues on the street?

    1. Good points, but you may as well be speaking Bushman in this crowd. They live in the world of a debate club and don’t give a second thought to the practical implications of their positions.

      1. We’re aware of the implications of your suggestions: death and assault by cops.

        1. Only of people who stubbornly refuse to allow the law be enforced.

          While I’d rather not see anybody get killed, the rule of law must be paramount.

          1. Balking at the thought of being dragged in for contempt of cop is a death sentence, by your book. Does the rule of law include willful negligence?

            1. Does it include any prerogative on the enforcers’ part to abide by any standard whatsoever when dealing with the plebes? Is there any wiggle room in the law to distinguish abusive behavior from procedures? Or is it carte blanche for those wearing the badges?

            2. The cop clearly did not intend to kill him.

              Forcing someone to use violence against you is not a smart move, as nearly any violent act can turn lethal.

              1. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:22PM|#
                “The cop clearly did not intend to kill him.”

                You know this because you were licking the cop’s ass at the time?
                Man, you ARE an asshole.

                1. Not to get too macabre here, but there are a lot easier ways to kill someone if that’s what you want to do.

                  1. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:39PM|#
                    “Not to get too macabre here, but there are a lot easier ways to kill someone if that’s what you want to do.”
                    Which is a nice way to ignore the question.
                    Were you licking the cop’s ass, or do you have other evidence of your claim?

                  2. Like I said, negligent harm. I don’t care about his absurd intentions, the man and his compatriots helped murder a civilian on the street for no better reason than a lack of discretion. Intentions have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

              2. When even Dunphy agrees that the cop was guilty of a criminal act, it’s a pretty good bet that the cop was in the wrong. Even assuming that the police were 100% justified in arresting Garner, he did absolutely nothing that necessitated that sort of force.

          2. the rule of law must be paramount.

            Which means people have to die for your stupid laws, and their murderers must be let off the hook. You are a sick POS Tulpa and you know nothing about the rule of law.

            1. Again, must repeat that Garner was NOT selling loosies when he encountered the pigs.

          3. If you believe in rule of law, which I doubt because of your proven mendacity, you must vehemently oppose the status quo, as evidenced in the Garner case, which is the unaccountable rule of man.

    2. how can they assure that a 300 pound guy who refuses to be arrested is arrested safely?

      By not murdering him. Talking to him also works. Time for a take: you are seriously asking how is it possible for cops to apprehend a non-violent fat asmathic without killing him. This means you are retarded.

      If you just don’t want the law to exist, why would your preference have superior authority over the duly installed laws of the community and the cops who are hired to uphold them?

      Because those laws are fucking evil and stupid, like you. That makes us morally superior to the law and its enforcers.

      Again, even with all this time and 20/20 hindsight to inform, what would be better policy that would work safely every time in this situation with human beings, adrenaline, and the unknown mental and physical health issues on the street?

      We should ask Europe or those other jurisdictions where police manage to not murder people all the frick’n time.

      1. Talking to him also works.

        Sure it does! And whatever else Psychotoxin wants to make up.

        1. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:12PM|#
          “Talking to him also works.
          ————
          Sure it does! And whatever else Psychotoxin wants to make up.”

          So you just prefer to murder the guy? What a COMPASSIONATE asshole!

      2. We should ask Europe or those other jurisdictions where police manage to not murder people all the frick’n time.

        I really don’t think you want to adopt European policies that enable police to be confident that nonviolent approaches to suspects will not end with flag-draped coffins.

        1. I really don’t think you want to adopt European policies that enable police to be confident that nonviolent approaches to suspects will not end with flag-draped coffins.

          OFFICER SAFETY!

          In other words, the policeman’s life is worth more than someone else’s.

        2. I’d ask if you’d like to elaborate, but you’ve been given enough opportunity to spread bullshit and lies.

          1. No guns, less rights.

            Aping the euros isn’t a solution.

  22. WHAT I’VE LEARNED TODAY

    If you break the law, any goddamn law whatsoever, you may not live through the encounter and this is perfectly okay with the quivering sheep that love their Boys In Blue.

    1. The NAP doesn’t specify what kind of force is permissible in response to the initiation of force.

      1. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:34PM|#
        “The NAP doesn’t specify what kind of force is permissible in response to the initiation of force.”

        And as a compassionate asshole, I’m sure you intend that to mean something.
        What might that be?

      2. Somewhere between doing nothing and piling on and choking a guy who is standing with his hands up. Garner hadn’t initiated force at any point. I don’t think you realize what the NAP is.

        1. So you’re suggesting that Dekikon really has no clue as to what s/he is posting?
          Imagine my surprise!

        2. straff, it’s my understanding, based on what learned men such as Dekikon have said on this topic, that the cops either had to ignore Eric Garner or kill him.

          THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES. THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND.

          1. A monopoly on the use of force in a geographical area will lead to excessive use of said force. Middle ground is appeasement and shows weakness. I don’t even call myself libertarian and I can grasp this.

            1. Except the govt is somewhat restrained by the ballot box and the courts.

              1. The courts are govt.

              2. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:56PM|#
                “Except the govt is somewhat restrained by the ballot box and the courts.”

                Not enough to keep the cops from murdering people.

          2. Garner is the one who was closing off alternatives. Not the cops.

            1. Free will. Cops don’t have it. Y

            2. Dekikon|12.22.14 @ 11:55PM|#
              “Garner is the one who was closing off alternatives. Not the cops.”

              Yeah, ’cause he chased the cops down, gave ’em (all of ’em) a choke hold and then sat on them, right, asshole? I mean that must be the way it went!

            3. Stop lying you piece of shit.

      3. Proportionate force. This is explained in pretty much every argument for an NAP.

        You can’t shoot a person for sitting on your lawn, either.

        1. It’s not in the NAP itself though; probably because the NAP is supposed to be simple and proportionate force is not an easy thing to define.

          1. Dekikon|12.23.14 @ 12:33AM|#
            “It’s not in the NAP itself though; probably because the NAP is supposed to be simple and proportionate force is not an easy thing to define.”

            Uh, what?!

        2. You can shoot him for sitting on your lawn if that’s what it takes to liberate your lawn. You can’t just go guns a blazing right off the bat without any good reason.

      4. Ah, so Garner would have been justified in using deadly force against the cops? Have you thought through your position?

    2. Laws should be enforced. If a law shouldn’t be enforced, don’t make it. Don’t make ridiculous laws that cause merchants to charge $14 for a pack of cigarettes to be obeyed.

      1. widget|12.22.14 @ 11:55PM|#
        “Laws should be enforced. If a law shouldn’t be enforced, don’t make it.”

        I remember as a high school student reading 20th-century US history regarding the prohibition.
        It didn’t take the sharpest kid in the class to see there was something wrong there.

        1. That’s where the don’t make it part comes in.

          A major problem with Prohibition was that the law was not uniformly enforced.

          1. Dekikon|12.23.14 @ 12:06AM|#
            “That’s where the don’t make it part comes in.
            A major problem with Prohibition was that the law was not uniformly enforced.”

            And you, you slimy POS, use that to justify murder.
            Tulpa, I’ll allow others to decide whether you’re more of a sleaze than Bo.

            1. Great minds talk about ideas.
              Average minds talk about events.
              Small minds talk about people.

              1. Dekikon|12.23.14 @ 12:13AM|#
                “Great minds talk about ideas.
                Average minds talk about events.
                Small minds talk about people.”

                Tulpa tries duplicity at every chance.

            2. You’re awfully grumpy this evening, Sevo.

              1. widget|12.23.14 @ 12:16AM|#
                “You’re awfully grumpy this evening, Sevo.”

                Maybe, but lies and general duplicity tends to make me pissed almost always.
                BTW, happy holidays to you and yours!

          2. Yeah. That was it. Not the idea that people don’t know what’s good for them, so we’ll take booze away from them. It was uneven enforcement.

          3. A major problem with Prohibition was that the law was not uniformly enforced.

            Christ, you are a fucking dead-headed authoritarian klots. Uniformly enforcing law involving mass prohibition of a substance that most of society desired from the elites right on down to millions of average folk would have required a dictatorship- the which keeps being rejected by the American people every time the filthy beast raises its shit-eating head.

          4. A major problem with Prohibition was that the law was not uniformly enforced.

            Said no one who actually understood the problems with prohibition, ever.

  23. Out to teach my daughter to ride her bike, so have a good night all. Dekikon, Let’s hope she doesn’t break a traffic law and then cry when police cite her for an infraction. She wouldn’t have submitted so any force needed for her compliance would be her fault. Your rationale leads to people saying “screw it, may as well off the cop” since every encounter is a potential death sentence.

    No Sevo, I’m not adovating that.

    1. If your hysteria was correct, and every encounter were actually a “potential death sentence” then that attitude would make sense, no?

      You made your statement, now stand up for it. Don’t slink away and claim you’re not advocating the obvious conclusion.

      1. So, tulpa, you finally found someone who made a positive claim, which allows your sorry ass to demand proof?
        OK, let’s assume straffinrun is wrong. Now justify murder-by-cop.
        I’m waiting, asshole.

      2. I don’t even know where to start with that idiotic statement. If others want to argue with you, fine. You want me to explain the difference between “potential” and “certain”? I’m taking care of my daughter and don’t have anymore time to waste on you.

    2. straffinrun|12.23.14 @ 12:05AM|#”No Sevo, I’m not adovating that.”
      Cite missing.

      1. ‘Scuse me, straffinrun, I didn’t think you were.

      2. Not a shot at you Sevo. And you can see who would suggest I’m advocating murdering cops at any encounter. He did it immediately. Of course a moral person wouldn’t murder a cop during a routine encounter. Some people may, however. I’d say the Garner case may have tipped more than a few cretins even closer to acting out their insane dreams.

    3. straffinrun lives in Japan and he his not teaching his daughter to ride her bike at midnight as the timing of his post might imply.

      For that and other reasons he wonders why Americans aren’t more like the Japanese.

  24. The state should just go one step further and charge Garner with suicide.

    Since he didn’t immediately acquiesce to the cops, he was literally asking to be choked to death. Smart people believe this.

    1. There may be a problem with his right to face and question his accuser.

      1. Dekikon|12.23.14 @ 12:23AM|#
        “There may be a problem with his right to face and question his accuser”

        Not sure this is tulpa; a bit more duplicitous (or stupid).
        Regardless, a really dumb statement.

  25. Wow, I see this comment section got infested by a drooling, lobotomized, murder-supporting moron while I was gone.

    Hey, Dekikon. Tell me again how our streets are flooded with grenade launchers and it is only armored vehicles which keep our noble boys in blue from being torn to shreds by hell-fire missiles and RPGs.

    1. All the drool in the world couldn’t put out that gigantic flaming strawman.

    2. Yeah, just same old Tulpa.

    3. But asshole tells us great minds think of ideas!

  26. “You see them over in juvenile, 8 and 9 year old glue-sniffers, ten year old acid freaks”

    Dragnet’s ON TeeVee!

  27. CHROMOSOME DAMAGE! If it wasn’t so late, I’d stare at the sun till I went blind.

  28. KEEP OFF THE GRASS, yeah the kids will dig that.

  29. Pot

    Plenty

    Of

    Trouble

  30. “I read in the paper about all those babies being born deformed because of LSD”

  31. “I was worried those kids were so late….but not TOO LATE”

  32. Sally Field in a Night Gallery episode on now.

  33. What the fuck?
    http://www.washingtontimes.com…..-hand-ove/

    PSA encourages kids to steal parents’ guns, hand over to teachers

  34. Tulpa you are so fucking obvious. It’s pathetic how you can’t help yourself

  35. Rentrow is not going to like that at all dude.

    http://www.Anon-Wayz.tk

  36. Bag oh “My information is that after numerous arrests, and complaints by locals the cops came to do what they are paid for.”

    So, because other shop owners that are being extorted to fund the totalitarian police force decide that it’s not right that Garner and others no longer wanted to be extorted, and be free to engage in a transaction free from force, that it’s ok for the violent state to send it’s “officers” to subdue him?

    Suppose the appliance store was making a delivery. They see a pack of cigarettes on your table that didn’t have their store stamp on it. They proceed to subdue you and your friend. Would you ever do business with the appliance store? Would you write rave reviews about it online? So how can folks justify a police force, that is funded through extortion, to even exist enforcing law that some douche bags in fancy suits make up? They even have the nerve to say they support freedom and liberty.

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