The Independents

Tonight on The Independents: Are There Any Secret Libertarians Running for President? Also: Suderman on Obamacare, Welch on the Collapse of Communism, V.A. Whistleblower Scott Davis, and Let the Damn Turkey Cool!


War on Christmas? How about the Christmas War on Thanksgiving! Yuletide decorations started going up the day after Halloween, and Kennedy ain't havin' it:

Also on tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, repeats three and five hours later) Party Panelists Michael Malice (fast-talking state-smasher) and Rick Ungar (Forbes columnist) will assess whether there's any secret libertarian sauce living in the hearts of the 2016 presidential field. I predict you will enjoy Malice's take on Hillary Clinton….

Suderman Computerpants is in studio talking about Obamacare's disappointing enrollment numbers and the threat it faces at the Supreme Court. Veterans Administration whistleblower Scott Davis will throw cold water on the institution's stabs at reform. John Tillman of the Illinois Policy Institute will report on how state regulation is driving small business from his state to Texas. And I will talk about three underappreciated lessons/impact of the collapse of communism 25 years ago this month. It's a groovy kind of show, so dig.

Follow The Independents on Facebook at, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

NEXT: Anthony L. Fisher Talks Grubergate, Sexism in a Scientist's Shirt, and Adult Underoos on Red Eye Tonight at 3 a.m. ET/Midnight PT

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  1. No politician has ever been nor ever will be a secret Libertarian. There are only secret leftists. Being a Libertarian or classical liberal requires too much self awareness and intellectual honesty to ever allow someone to successfully hide it. Only ideologies that are based on personal revelation and faith allow someone to be mendacious enough to carry such a secret all the way into office or to have any kind of dramatic revelation and transformation once there.

    1. Shhh!! Don’t let the SoCons know, they think that Rand is their guy! Keep it down…

      1. Right – “all that prolife stuff he says is just to get into the CoCons’ pants – we cosmos are the ones he *really* loves! And when he becomes President he’ll be able to come out of the closet and tell us his true feelings!”

        1. CoCons

          I prefer SoCoCons, myself.

          None of that cherry stuff.

          1. The memory of SoCo and lime shots makes me gag like…someone who gags a lot.

  2. Curse in front of your kids in NJ? Bullshit!

    1. My high school football coach was arrested once based on a similar statute. He started cussing at a football game when he disagreed with a call (he was up in the tower that overlooked the field, rather than actually on the field itself, so he didn’t think anyone could really hear him). A sheriff’s deputy happened to be standing nearby at the base of the tower and cuffed him when he came down at the end of the game for “cussing in front of women and children.”

      Problem is coach taught civics, and was pretty damn good at it. He managed to get the charges dropped by the judge for violating the first amendment and the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment (since the law specified it was only a problem if you cussed in front of women and children, it was therefor sexist, I guess).

      1. Well, they need to get his ass to NJ, then.

        The telltale part of the story is here:

        The ACLU’s attorney for Tate, C.J. Griffin, argued that statute was clearly unconstitutional. “Curse words cannot be criminalized,” she told the court.

        One of the jurists, Judge Barry Albin, then noted that accepting that argument would amount to the court saying it was permissible for parents or guardians to curse repeatedly in front of children.

        1. “Well he did say Jehovah!”

    2. I don’t know who this Matthew feller is but he gets it. From the comments:

      “Its funny, we keep getting told the cops and military fight for our freedom, and yet in the past 100 years we have become less and less free.

      Income taxes did not exist 100 years ago, now you are forced to pay 20-40% of your income to the government or get locked in a cage

      Passports and Work visas were not required to work abroad. If you felt like leaving a country and working elsewhere, you didnt need to get a governments permission.

      Money was based on a gold standard, so that governments couldnt just devalue your wealth by printing off money to finance their wars and special interests.

      there are more people in jail in this country than there were in soviet russia under stalin, most for non-violent drug crimes.

      The nsa spies on the civilians under secrecy, and when it is brought to light, the person who exposed them is forced to hide in russia.”

  3. According to Welch we already have a secret libertarian in the White House already.

  4. The holy grail would be to have Suderman and Moynihan on the same episode.

    1. Wut .

      Also, I just looked at the last Independents article I posted on, and I figured I’d clarify that I’m not a lesbian.

      I’m just not particular one way or the other.

      1. I don’t know if that makes you more interesting or less.

        1. We could conduct a poll…

          1. Vote totals:

            More interesting – 100%

            Less interesting – 0%

      2. As long as you don’t look like Pat.


        1. You’re going to feel like such a dick if she does.

          1. Haha! No, I don’t. I mean, I’m sort of blondish.

          2. Ha, it does come out that way. I was hoping nobody would notice.

      3. Dammit. I thought you were a female libertarian lesbian who played Dungeons and Dragons.

        It’s a good thing you’re not though. I’m pretty sure they keep those in zoos.

        1. So that’s why there are no female libertarians…

        2. Is a female bisexual libertarian who plays Dungeons and Dragons particularly common?

          That is the ultimate unicorn.

          1. I dated a female bisexual anarchist who played Dungeons and Dragons in university, does that count?

            (More of a Max Stirner/Thoreau anarchist than anarcho-capitalist if that matters)

            1. I think you may have Riven beat, but the individual you describe is still to the left of an anarcho-capitalist and may not be quite as rare.

              On the other hand, Riven may just be an account Bo and/or I created to fool you all. The plot thickens…

              1. Actually, she was a Canadian female bisexual anarchist who played Dungeons and Dragons, which would make her even rarer. Canadian anything increases its rarity tenfold, we breed rarely and only when we can make the dangerous migration to the Hudson Bay orgy pits.

                1. Also, is she Nova Scotian? This is the most pressing question I have.

              2. Is this basically a call for tits or GTFO?

                1. Are you asking me?

                  1. Well, you are who I was replying to… but I’m open for more opinions.

                    1. I’m confused by your line of thought. However, I am often confused.

              3. On the other hand, Riven may just be an account Bo and/or I created to fool you all. The plot thickens…

                Honestly, who the fuck isn’t Bo at this point? I’m pretty sure Reason will come to an end when it turns out Bo is an autistic child shaking a snow globe and we’re all just figments of his imagination.

                1. I’m the best part of him. The best that he is or ever will be.

                2. Holy shit man I think I just found my religion. Boism.

                  “And lo, the Great Aspy will come, and cleanse the libertarian movement of its conservative sins. He will wipe away the influences of slave-owning white men, and lift us, the true libertarians, into a paradise of Mexicans, pot and ass sex. Amen.”

                  1. Cross over children. All are welcome. All welcome. Go into the Light. There is peace and serenity in the Light!

                    Welcome, John.

            2. Can I have her number? 😛

              1. Nope, GTA (Greater Toronto Area). No number for you Riven, I can’t have Americans stealin’ our womenfolk. Plus, she had a huge bundle of issues (on/off depression, active paranoia at times). Once she went through my old Facebook and found all the attractive women I was friends with and tried to get me to justify, I don’t know, knowing them I guess? Next day it wasn’t a big deal but that day she was pissed. Kind of the reason we stopped going out, emotional exhaustion on my part.

                1. That isn’t an issue. Also, can we really be any worse than Canadians like Cytotoxic? I mean he’s willing to bomb entire peoples if he feels threatened. What would he do to a single woman if something frighten or disturbs him?

                  I’m down with Beelzeboot.

                  1. You assume Cytotoxic has a chance of actually engaging in the act of reproduction. He’s an Objectivist, he’s actively removed himself from the breeding pool so he can continue his dream of masturbating over and over again to Roark’s kinky funtimes with Dominique.

                    1. Accidents happen. Obama, Bush, Stalin, the Kim family, etc. have all reproduced.

                    2. Those people have power and/or money, i.e. two of the most powerful aphrodisiacs known to man.

                    3. Are suggesting Cytotoxic lacks both?

                    4. If he had either I think they’d be a lot more mysteriously dead civilians in the Middle East.

                    5. As in millions of them?

                    6. Eh I don’t think he’d go for millions, probably just something the size of, say, Dresden. He likes to think that mass civilian murder terrifies a population into submission. Interestingly, he uses examples from World War 2, with its decades of occupation and de-Nazification, rather than say, the Zippo raids and Cambodian bombings in Vietnam.

                2. Yikes. I’m glad you got out before she cut if off while you were sleeping.

            3. I thought Thoreau was a transcendentalist.

              1. @Riven I was never really concerned about her being violent, she was really timid and actively getting help for her problems. She’d have emotional outbursts but that was it. Great to be around in her ‘up’ phases but her ‘downs’ were really rough.

                @Rufus Yeah Thoreau wasn’t an anarchist but I meant more in reference to the whole non-violent protest thing. She basically wanted people to just stop paying taxes and make weird communes.

      4. There goes my lady libertarian lesbian chub.

        1. Just remember that your chub may have been for Bo. Also, is there anything wrong with a bisexual libertarian chub?

          1. Also, is there anything wrong with a bisexual libertarian chub?

            It can’t make up its mind and is probably just doing it for attention.

            1. My god man, aren’t we all!?

            2. My libertarian chub has returned at the idea of a bisexual libertarian chub.

              1. I’m glad that I could be of assistance in more ways than one.

  5. Communism is gone?

    This guy didn’t get the memo:

    Step away from the illegal laundry soap!

    “These right-wing contraband groups are still at work, with their anti-national and parasitic spirit, riding on the backs of the people and sucking their blood,” Maduro said Tuesday, assuring TV viewers that the government “had neutralized the perverse effects of the economic war” in 2014.

    Obama approves.

    1. Daniel McAdams approves.

    2. Wow, these Cold War re-enactors are really realistic.

      I mean, he *is* just a re-enactor, right?

  6. More accidental honesty from Jonathan Gruber


    “Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don’t mean to do harm ? but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.” (T.S. Eliot)

    1. “they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.”

      That is a hell of a quote.

      1. And they all probably think everyone else is the same. Sort of paints them in a new light.

  7. Back to interruptions galore, I guess.

    1. Concentrationist!

  8. Yay to the Pipeline. Obama looks poised to block it with a ‘hiss’ explaining he’s not so sure it’ll create jobs (because, you know, only he or the government can do this) or lower gas prices.

    He seems to think we Canucks are the only ones who will profit from it.

    1. “He seems to think we Canucks are the only ones who will profit from it.

      Well, we can’t have that!

      1. The Koch brothers fund Canada.

        Didn’t you know?

        So it’s like AMERICA GETS PROFITS TOO!

        1. The Koch brothers fund Canada.

          That explains how Ezra Levant has a job and you elected Stephen Harper.

          Question: When the Kochs bought your country did they pay in Canadian dollars or did they use real money?

          That joke worked better back when the Canadian dollar was worth less than the American dollar. Now it just makes me nostalgic.

            1. I thought Canada was on strike until they got some Internet money?

        2. Missed the PM Links. Did you see the Faroe Islands beat Greece in Greece in a Euro qualifier?

          1. Yup.

            Also, Ireland couldn’t build on their draw against Germany.

    2. Oh he’s not sure it will create jobs. Well, I certainly wouldn’t want him to allow anything until he was absolutely sure of the outcome. That is the one thing that we really rely on this president for, being 100% completely correct about the economic outcome of any action.

    3. Alternatively, up here according to the NDP Canucks apparently won’t benefit from it either. It’s like Bastiat’s railroad I guess.

      1. I think it’s safe to assume the opposite will happen. I mean their side has Obama, the NDP and wacko environmentalists.

        We can have Fozzy Bear and still have the edge.

      2. Someone said earlier in these reason threads that you fuck fat girls. I think it was posited by the man child that can rarely type called adan something o r other…

        Do you prefer fat girls? Not that there is anything wrong per se’ with big bubbly butts…

  9. I’m pretty sure Rand Paul is a secret Libertarian who will disband Congress, fire all the IRS staff, bring our troops home, install his father as Treasury Secretary, close down the statist Supreme court and replace it with Judge Andrew Napolitano, and maybe move the Capitol to Alabama to be closer to the Mises Institute.

  10. My nomination for the new Independents intro theme.

    Because the current one sucks. I also would like to suggest that the hosts’ faces slowly morph, late 90’s style, into the faces of Thomas the Tank Engine train characters.

    1. Why not the libertarian national anthem:

        1. Or for those who believe the Libertarian Moment has arrived, here is your theme song:

      1. I’ll second that if someone could animate 8-bit versions of the hosts in like a Mega Man style.

        1. I don’t think I have enough pixels to do Kennedy’s earrings justice…

    2. I also would like to suggest that the hosts’ faces slowly morph, late 90’s style, into the faces of Thomas the Tank Engine train characters.

      I would like to suggest that they be sculpted in mashed potatoes, and I would like to hereby create the new medium of mashed potatomation.

    1. I don’t care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet, your shirt is sexist and ostracizing

      And yet, he’s still a renowed physicist and you’re still two hack journalists writing for a blog cum new aggregator for 2 cents a word.

      1. That headline sounds like something I’d write if I were parodying progressives.

        “Who cares if we just made a major scientific advancement, thin skinned ninnies were OFFENDED!?!

    2. “Matt Taylor, you just landed a probe on a fuckin’ comet! What are your going to do, now?!”

      “I’m going to make a crying apology to the fem-shriekers! Fuck science!”

    3. Where can I get one of those shirts?

      My wife would love it.

      1. Similar shirt here.

        The original design was custom made by a friend.

        Apparently, the friend is coming out with her version next week [search for Elly Prizeman in the thread].

        1. OMG, nobody show that shirt to their daughters – they’ll be so discouraged from pursuing scientific careers that they’ll change their major from Physics to Communications, or even (shudder) to Biology.

        2. Cool. Sold out? Good for him.

    4. This shirt is representative of all of that, and the ESA has yet to issue a statement or apologize for that.

      The guy who actually wore the shirt apologized for it, but that wasn’t enough. Why would the ESA apologize? That also wouldn’t be enough.

      If some woman out there does change her entire career path because she sees such a shirt, well, that sucks. But she’s also at fault. Grow a pair, lady.

      1. I wouldn’t assume that the average feminist has any insight into the mind of the kind of woman who likes science.

        1. Hey man, social science is a *kind* of science, they’re just a bit more evolved and realize that real science studies feelings and lacks objective measurements.

  11. OH, so here you all are.

  12. The stages of high school officials denying an application to start a student club:

    STAGE 1, when they don’t think anyone else is noticing – denied without explanation.

    STAGE 2, when they get a letter from the students’ attorneys – granted effective the following year, when the would-be founders of the club have graduated.

    STAGE 3, after another letter from the students’ attorneys – granted effective immediately.…

  13. Hey, the next performance in the Gruber Film Festival is due to begin!
    Watch as Gruber explains the value in ‘mislabeling’ a tax!

    “Obamacare architect in 6th video: ‘Mislabeling’ helped us get rid of tax breaks”
    “And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people when we all know it’s a tax on people who hold those insurance plans.”…..index.html

    Why, next, he’ll tell us that ‘korpaRAT taxes’ are paid by from the profits! And some people will believe him!

    1. You left me muttering to myself in a corner in another thread trying to figure this out. And no thanks to you, I think I have.

      1. Or maybe not. The new excise tax is supposed to be on insurance companies selling the Cadillac plans, right? So they’ll stop selling high-quality group plans people get from their employers? And then the insurers will stop selling those plans and people will start buying insurance through those rotten exchanges?


        I’m catching up on stuff from 2008 here. These are the parts Gruber left out of his comic book.

        1. “Or maybe not. The new excise tax is supposed to be on insurance companies selling the Cadillac plans, right?”

          Not sure it matters; the people with the plans are the only source of revenue to pay the tax, regardless of the corporate middle-man/tax collector.

          1. Something about appearances.

            If you roll employer-provided insurance into taxable income and hit the employee, that’s evil. So what you do is, you tax the company that’s providing the insurance, thus drying up the supply.

            I’m still catching up on all this.

            1. No = they simply pass the costs onto the consumer.

        2. Oh, and:
          “These are the parts Gruber left out of his comic book.”
          Yeah, he saved it all for the feature-length comedy!

          LAT: “Bofo!”
          NYT: “Constant laughs!”

    2. Sevo, you should learn to stop worrying and love the Grubes. If not you, then who?

    3. The man covers all the bases:

      “The second way was have the tax kick in “late, starting in 2018. But by starting it late, we were able to tie the cap for Cadillac Tax to CPI, not medical inflation,”

      Where “tie” = tell lies. He tells lies about his lies!

      1. How did the CPI vs medical inflation feature? Medical costs rise faster than the CPI, which does what when you tax which?

        Answer, you fiend — or I will go find out on my own.

        1. They chose to *blame* it on CPI, which they managed to do by scheduling it such that it such that the increase was isolated in time from the inception of O-care.
          That allowed them to make a credible lie that the increase was just inflation instead of a result of their fucked-up medical program.

          1. Ohhhh.

            Well, I’m an iggerant American voter but I still knew this was all bad in 2008. I didn’t bother learning the details at the time, because the minute I hear “government health plan” I stop listening.

            Thanks to Gruber I’m becoming much better informed.

            1. Faceless Commenter|11.14.14 @ 8:34PM|#
              Well, I’m an iggerant American voter but I still knew this was all bad in 2008.”

              In which case you AREN’T the iggerant voter; your BS sniffer is working just fine.
              Tony is the iggerant voter, regardless of his claims otherwise. He bought it and tried to sell it here.

  14. Has anyone else had problems recently with Shockwave Flash mucking up their browser?

    I dont know what it is, but the last 2 weeks its gotten nuts. H&R, for whatever reason, seems to want to set it off particularly. It also seems to be a cross-browser phenomenon, and is apparently common. I’ve uninstalled versions, run without it, tried editing the #*$& config files… but the problem re-appears.

    Adobe, FWIW, is also probably responsible for melting my apple laptop, sez the “Genuises”. Resource hog extraordinaire.

    1. Yes.

      I use firefox with flashblock, but something is still mucking it up here.

    2. GILMORE|11.14.14 @ 8:08PM|#
      “Has anyone else had problems recently with Shockwave Flash mucking up their browser?”

      Yes. Total lock; it’s power-down, restart.

    3. Sweet baby Jesus and his golden fleece diapers–yes. Both on my mobile and on my PC

    4. Yeah, I had a few problems last week and tonight.

    5. I don’t mean to be harsh, but sometimes I think the reliability of flash might be imperfect.

      Unfortunately, it’s likely to be a long time waiting for a fix, given how infrequently they update it.

      1. “I don’t mean to be harsh, but sometimes I think the reliability of flash might be imperfect.”

        Can we take it out behind the barn and kill it with a pitchfork?

    6. Thank God, I thought it was just me.

      1. “Thank God,”
        Ya know, hardly anyone recognizes me when I don’t wear my sandals.

        1. OK, I’ll just laugh politely and ask someone else later what you meant.

          1. Sevo is stepping in for God and saying “You’re welcome.” So you can figure out the bit about the sandals…

    7. I think i figured out what it is.

      Chrome and Firefox both ‘self update’ all the time. Even when you’re not using them. I have like 4 browsers installed but mostly use FF.

      Anyway, both Chrome and FF recently updated themselves. And Chrome uses its own internal version of Shockwave completely separate from how FF implements it, which results in 2 copies of Flash being on your PC

      The problem is, you can’t turn one of them ‘off’ unless you go into Chrome plug-in settings and tell it to leave the other (non-chrome) version alone.

      This stopped the total-crashes, but its still bugging out hanging up for minutes every now and then.

      I may uninstall chrome entirely and see if it fixes the FF problems, and just roll with that.

      1. …the reason i suspect this is the origin of the Firefox problems, FWIW, is that in the process/taskbar i frequently noted that FF was trying to access something in the “Chrome” folder on my C/ drive. I had a WTF? wondering about that

      2. I don’t have chrome installed and the flash plugin is still crashing regularly – although it only crashes the flash plugin, not my whole system.

        I do see the the flash plugin updated itself 2 days ago. I’m sure that’s totally a coincidence.

      3. The desktop is fine, but the site has been crashing the tablet all day. And it crashed AS I was reading this thread.

        1. I think the issue of H&R being script-ridden is entirely separate from my cited Flash conflict.

          My problem with the browser seemed to be fixed by nixing chrome, but as soon as i come to H&R i get problems again.
          the embedded video wants to refresh every time i post, and it prompts the same kind of lock-ups and script errors. As i was typing this, flash has crashed again.

      4. I always have Flash disabled in Chrome, but still get the runaway memory leak. It appears to be the embedded video. If I delete the HTML (via Inspect element) corresponding to the embedded video, the memory leak goes away. Problem is, every time I refresh the page, I have to delete the video HTML.


    8. Heh, I got the “flash plugin has crashed” message less than 5 seconds before I saw your post.

  15. Longest wait *ever* for a guy to get the Medal of Honor – Lt. Alonzo H. Cushing, a Union soldier who died as Gettysburg, gets the award after a century and a half wait.

    President Obama, at the awards ceremony, puts things in perspective and shows *how important* Lt. Cushing’s sacrifice was: “I’m mindful that I might not be standing here today as president, had it not been for the ultimate sacrifices of those courageous Americans.”……html?_r=0

    1. Thanks a lot, Cushing. Dumbass.

    2. Video or it didn’t happen.

        1. I assumed he meant video of Cushing.

    3. I’m mindful that I might not be standing here today as president

      In addition to being a narcissist, this guy is insecure. EVERYTHING is about him.

  16. I don’t see the Manhattan Beach contingent in here right now. I just learned I have a biz trip to Manhattan Beach on Monday December 8, and was wondering if that might be a good night for a meetup.

    1. I think it would be, yes.

  17. VIDEO: “Ninja Pizza Girl: A supreme platformer with a deep-dish message”

    At the very least, it seems more interesting than Depression Quest.…..-aus-2014/

    1. So who did she have to sleep with to get the cnet write-up?

      1. To be blunt, I pity that poor guy.

        1. I read deep-dish massage

  18. Jon Gabriel Trolls like a motherfucker. I’m pretty sure he lives under a bridge and makes snide comments to billy goats.

    When Did the Left Turn into Rick Santorum?

    Several miserable harpies joined Ms. Eveleth on the public shaming, turning a staggering scientific achievement into a colloquy on restoring Victorian dress codes. For the record, the shirt was made by a woman named Elly Prizeman as a fun gift for her physicist friend. No doubt, she shall be placed in the village stockade for her grievous sin of consorting with a male and having her cartoon ladies show too much ankle. Her repentance will only be accepted when she covers them up in burkas.

    Mr. Taylor then made the bad situation worse. Instead of telling these progressive puritans to go pound silicon dioxide, he issued a sobbing public confession straight out of a Maoist show trial. This guy just dropped a dishwasher on an ice cube 300 million miles from home and he’s groveling to a coven of D-list bloggers?

    For years the left has characterized conservatives as joyless scolds forcing their morality on a resentful public. But they’ve upended this paradigm by becoming far more judgmental and censorious than so-called social conservatives like Rick Santorum ever conceived of being. The left is demanding so many recantations, the ghost of Torquemada is rolling his eyes and muttering awk-wrrrd.

    1. I thought Santorum *did* have a sense of humor (from YouTube):

    2. “For years the left has characterized conservatives as joyless scolds forcing their morality on a resentful public.”

      Right, because when we think “joyless,” we automatically think of William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan, or… G. K. Chesterton:

      “The word ‘good’ has many meanings. For example, if a man were to shoot his grandmother at a range of five hundred yards, I should call him a good shot, but not necessarily a good man.”…..erton.html

      1. He’s not saying conservatives *are* humorless, just that that’s a leftist stereotype.

        As is the case with a shocking number of leftist assumptions, it has little basis in reality.

        1. It’s not so much the author as the headline writer I object to – the headline said the left *turned into* Santorum. 🙁

      2. GKC has a lot of good quotes

        “The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese.”

    3. Mr. Taylor then made the bad situation worse.

      Jesus god Christ, these victims of the New Inquisition are only being called names. They’re not being stuck with Heretic Forks or having their ankles twisted 180 degrees in a machine. When is the damn counter-revolution going to begin already? We’re well into the second generation of wimps.

      1. I know. I really wish the guy had come out and told them to fuck off, but it’s possible his bosses were upset with him.

        1. “Upset”? Again I ask, SO THE FUCK WHAT? I’d have quit and told them to find their own way off the comet.

        2. …”it’s possible his bosses were upset with him.”

          I’m sorta surprised they let him on TV. In the offices where I worked, any depiction of “babes” was pretty much prohibited from about 1990 or so.
          I’m not defending the rules, just pointing out that they are there and even our company ‘heroes’ wouldn’t have gotten a pass.

    4. So i backtracked to find the original ‘tweeter’… and Jezebel is already running the pearl-clutching “OMG DEATH THREATS TO FEMINISTS!!!” story.

      Is the rule now that you can broadcast incredibly inane, idiotic shit on Twitter, and if you’re a women, no one is allowed to tell you anything but LOLs and HUGS?

      1. What’s especially great is that this guy got so much abuse that he cried on camera.

        Apparently the abuse *he* suffered doesn’t count though.

        1. She tweeted that she was satisfied he “accepted his mistake”

          I really don’t mind these people having idiotic ideas about how they need to police anything they perceive as being politically-incorrect…

          …what i DO mind is anyone taking them seriously. Which is fucking wrong.

  19. What on earth is she wearing?

    1. I think its a replica of that thing in the Miami Marlins outfield.

  20. GILMORE has his work cut out for him with that atrocity.

  21. Ouch, they’re Herman Caining Carson.

  22. Chris Christie is the biggest of big government a-hole. He hates gun rights and property rights.

    1. But he’s got ELECTABILITY. The media told me so.

      1. No one wants Chris Christie. They can try pushing that noise all they want.

  23. Slim pickings.

  24. President Bush as long as it’s a woman.

  25. He sired little brown ones.

  26. I’m guessing Ungar won’t have a problem with Hitlary’s changing stances on issues.

  27. The two liberals claiming we’re the emotional ones.


    1. So apparently libertarians are both heartless and emotional at the same time. Schrodinger’s Ideology?

  28. I find Ungar tagging Paul for apparent flip flopping rich given that his side are pretty much driven by emotions and cynical politics.

  29. If Obama hasn’t discredited politicians then no one can.

  30. Ungar isn’t a liar. He’s just burnt.

  31. She’s part Native American? Are they seriously going with this?

  32. Hilary as Gollum was good stuff.

    1. “America’s mother-in-law” wasn’t bad either. That’s a quip with some staying power.

      1. Yeah, funny.

      2. “America’s mother-in-law” wasn’t bad either.
        Who would marry someone to get that hag as a MIL?

  33. Oh, you guys are actually talking about the nice video they provided for us.

    1. Just in case your new, this thread is always a running live commentary of “The Independents” show currently airing on Fox Business.

      1. But you don’t have to watch it; the comments are a show of their own.

      2. Oh. My speakers are disconnected.

  34. She’s more unlikeable than Shrillary. Big Chief Squaw Runs with Unelectable.

  35. Joe Biden “is a smart guy.” Let’s just leave that out there.

  36. Ungar couldn’t bring himself to say a bad word for his team.

  37. An adobe commercial. Hilarious.

    1. I thought it was an ad for Woowoo.

      1. Woowoo actually has more brand value than Adobe now.

  38. When Suderman is in-studio, they pump in carbon monoxide in a vain attempt to slow his word blurting down to a speed non-tweaked humans can process.

  39. Suderman has his big boy clothes on tonight. He’s showed up loaded for bear.

  40. Tits?

  41. Sign my petition? This is what it’s come to?

  42. That petition is actually to bring her Voyager character back.

  43. The Independents Attire Review, 14 November 2014


    – Kennedy: ?Ay, Caramba! It is hard to put my immediate impressions into words, so I will instead provide a visual interpretation. Its one of those things that I think LSD would actually help make better sense of. At least then I would have an excuse for wanting to decorate her head with fruit.

    – Matt: PowerMatt – Royal Blue edition. We likes. (golf clap)

    – Kmele: ‘Chambray’ with the tweed? Mm. It doesn’t really mix. The shirt pushes in a casual direction, and the tweed pulls me back in a more stodgy, formal direction. We love this jacket, and it rocks w/ the maroon tie, but this is meh-inducing.

    – Suit-R-Man: VICTORY! shoulders like *razor blades*. A collar correctly proportioned to his generous cabesa. A blemish/wrinkle-free jacket. The tie matches nicely and is deftly knotted. As sharp as we’ve ever seen Peter. Winner by default


  44. Also, Flash player has crashed twice so far during the show

  45. This week hasn’t had a Sunday yet.

  46. I have found the Platonic ideal of a gun grabber.

    #AR15 stands for #AssaultRifle, capable of 15 bullets per minute. #assaultweapon #gunsense #NotOneMore

    1. Fifteen bullets per minute? Who could possibly afford to practice, going through rounds at that speed?

      1. Nobody needs more than 1 RPM.

      1. The best part about that is that she claims it’s satirical…but in that case she’d be satirizing her own side and showing her own arguments to be stupid.

        I’m confused.

        1. I’m confused.

          Well, according to her, you probably lack that part of the brain that understands satire!

          I wonder how much acid she did…

    2. “No, this is not a #troll account. I’m sorry if I’ve provided disinformation. I only post what makes sense to me. #gunsense will prevail.”


      “My husband still wants a #gun, I still say no way. All the #hate I received today proves why gun owners are nasty creatures.”

      People correcting you and your misinformation are ‘nasty creatures’?


      She’s a nut.

      1. How ironic that the one thing she’d be good at is sticking to her guns.

  47. Foster basically just endorsed nothing with his phrasing.

  48. For some, the St. Phillips Fast begins today and runs until Christmas.

    Does Kennedy’s Romanian Orthodox Church follow that custom?

  49. Its so cool when people just ignore questions and make speeches

  50. Fuh. The VA is right out of a horror movie. Awful.

  51. It’s amazing that you can commit an “egregious” violation, demonstrably causing harm, and not even be fired, yet common folk face jail time, for example, for accidentally driving through the wrong state with a firearm.

  52. How about moving to a state where you don’t even need a permit in the first place?

  53. I like Kennedy’s shirt. There, I said it.


  55. Goddammit I hate this Gunderman Group commercial. I am not buying their product.

  56. No one wants to talk about the drop in wallmaker business.


  58. Radley Balko knows what’s up:

    Some people spend their time building robots that land on comets. Other people spend their time demanding those people change their shirts.

    1. I feel bad for that scientist: every time he thinks of one of the great moments of his career, he’s also going to have a serious downer because of that trash.

      1. “I fucking shot a multi-million-mile hole-in-one with a robot landing on a moving target, and all these idiots care about is ‘fashion'”


        “We deserve to be hit by a comet”

  59. It’s a fuckin awesome time to be a Republican right now, isn’t it? I bet Lou’s actually waking up with a semi these days.

    1. Assuming someone force feeds him viagra about half an hour before his alarm goes off.

  60. Dobbs – shows a medley of about a dozen quotes from Obama who insists he has no unilateral executive power to grant non-deportation amnesty to immigrants.

    1. That was pretty funny. Gruber-esque, to coin a phrase.

  61. Completely random story demonstrating cross-cultural misunderstandings: I was listening to Radio New Zealand’s weekly news digest today. They had an interview with a NZ scientist who has made a film defending other scientists who argue that AGW is taking place. Apparently he start getting disturbed in 2006 when AGW-scientists were being “attacked” (I didn’t listen to that part of the interview in detail so not sure what he was referring to). He made the film for an American audience because he’s really worried about the number of Americans who do not accept AGW.

    Anyhow, a US network has decided to air it in the near future and the guy from NZ is super-excited about this. Why? Because the network is PBS and, as he pointed out to the interviewer, they had more than 300 outlets across the country and their programs are seen almost everywhere. Furthermore, he believes the PBS audience is exactly the audience that needs to see his film in order to be persuaded that their doubts about AGW are wrong.

    I hope no-one decides to rain on his parade. I imagine he will get a lot of very supportive e-mails from the folks who watch.

    1. That is hilarious.

      Maybe he can also make a film trying to convince them that one shouldn’t put all one’s faith in corporations because there are some things that are best left to the government.

    2. “I hope no-one decides to rain on his parade”

      I do too.
      For a week or so, and then hilarity ensues!

  62. OT: anybody see the Funny or Die clip of porn stars pimping for net neutrality?!?! Jesus, it’s like they have NO IDEA what operation chokepoint is or that more government generally means a LOT more hassles for libertarians. WTF?!?!? They really are dumbshits… and one of them is fat with bad teeth – HOW THE FUCK DOES SHE GET WORK?!?!?


      Some might say “Rule 34”, but I think it’s more of the Ron White rule: once you’ve seen one woman naked, …you want to see the rest of them, too.

  63. Movies are like vaginas… only the best are enjoyed over and over…

  64. My roomate’s aunt makes $71 /hour on the laptop . She has been out of a job for six months but last month her income was $12021 just working on the laptop for a few hours.
    You can try this out. ?????

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