Tonight on The Independents: The Bright Side of Death

What the hell, the news is so bad this week we might as well jump head-first into death. Tonight's theme episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three and five hours later) attempts to find the silver lining in the business of dying, or at least to imagine a future in which life-and-death (and post-death) decisions are no longer mangled by the state.

The show begins with Kenyon College Economics Professor David Harrington and Golden Gate Funeral Home Director and Ask the Undertaker star John Beckwith, who will discuss coffin regulations, tissue harvesting, the rise of cremation, and other hot funeral trends. Anti-aging visionary Aubrey De Grey then brings his beard and his wit to explain the whys and why-so-scareds of his death-defying research. Compassion & Choices President Barbara Coombs Lee talks about the lived experience with dignified-death laws (like in Oregon), and why that isn't "assisted suicide." Then it's obviously time for a game of "Famous Last Words," featuring as contestants serial ghostwriter (and Reason contributor) Michael Malice and Fox Business Making Money host Charles Payne.

So what happens when you die? We'll let viewers ask blue-eyed priest Father Jonathan Morris whether heaven really is a place where nothing ever happens. Then Malice comes back to talk about the emerging trend of super-duper fun funerals, and the show ends with the co-hosts imagining their own ideal exits from this mortal coil.

Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Warty]

Death's a piece of shit
When you think of it

[Episiarch]

Death's a laugh and life's a joke, it's true

[Almanian!]

I was just jokin! It's crucifixion for me!

[Bobarian]

Now I'll be whistling all night.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

Matt Macabre.

I like it.

[MJGreen]

Always look on the bright side of death.
Just before you draw your terminal breath.

[Fist of Etiquette]

We all got it coming, kid.

[jesse.in.mb]

Obligatory sexy priest reference.

And an Orthodox reference just for shits and giggles.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

And before you ask, Fr. Jonathan Morris *did* walk into a bar.

http://twitchy.com/2014/06/19/.....s-go-nuts/

[Notorious G.K.C.]

But at least when he appears on the Independents he has a sympathetic audience!

[Cytotoxic]

UberX and Lyf approved in Minneapolis.

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3507825.shtml?cat=1

[NotAnotherSkippy]

What's the catch? There's no way they'd let this impede the glorious revolution.

[Almanian!]

Deserve's got nothin' to do with it...

[Francisco d'Anconia]

*squints*

I reckon so.

[GILMORE]

"the show ends with the co-hosts imagining their own ideal exits from this mortal coil."

Two words: Cremation. Cannon.

i've been thinking it would make an excellent franchise biz. Trailer-able furnace and Air-Cannon combo. Available for state-parks, beachfronts. BYOB.

[Almanian!]

I was thinking two-stage Estes rocket - ashes go *POOF* with the second stage...

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What would you need for that, size J?

[Sudden]

Even beaches of southern California from La Jolla to Leo Carillo, and up to Pismo?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Hey! This isn't Pismo beach!"

[OneOut]

"BYOB."

Is there an upcharge if you furnish the body ?

[GILMORE]

We keep some Central Americans in stock in the event that you misplace the original.

[Bobarian]

This could end up like Donnie.

[Sudden]

Donny, who loved bowling.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

How about liquid nitrogen and a sledgehammer?

[GILMORE]

Looked into it. EPA is much cooler (no pun) with fire and air.

[Apatheist ?_??]

Good luck dealing with the undertaker cartel. That's some old school entrenched interest and crony capitalism.

[flye]

This is our most modestly priced urn.

[SweatingGin]

"No, I haven't. What's a speedball?"

[Lady Bertrum]

the show ends with the co-hosts imagining their own ideal exits from this mortal coil.

Welch will expire from a heart attack while engaging in sex play dressed as a Renaissance court jester.

Kennedy looks forward to her eventual slide into drug addiction and death by cop while robbing a liquor store.

After his conversion to Mormonism, Kmele will die peacefully in bed surround by a gaggle of adoring children birthed by his 16 wives.

[Some Chick from OH]

I want to be shot by a jealous wife.

[Sevo]

Lady Bertrum|7.18.14 @ 6:36PM|#
'the show ends with the co-hosts imagining their own ideal exits from this mortal coil.'
"Welch will expire"...

Double-take; thought this was GILMORE.

[Trouser-Pod]

Double-take; thought this was GILMORE.

I know, right? LB is letting her prose blossom.

/not a euphamism

[Almanian!]

Speaking of which - gay magician walks into a bar, disappears with a poof....

NTTAWWT

Thanks! I'll be here all weekend! Try the veal!

[Sudden]

Speaking of death, I was reading comments on a Israeli Defense Forces facebook post about the steps that the IDF takes to minimize civilian casaulties (leaflets advising them about their targets, dropping non-lethal stuff on roofs to warn civilians of a target in the area, etc).

The comments were 5:1 people calling Israel terrorists, fascists, Nazis and talking about how Allah and the Palestinians would destroy them and kill the Jews, etc. etc.

It struck me that the Israelis should maybe stop being so permissive with these citizens and just demolish the whole lot of that population. If people are gonna treat you like a monster when you're doing the moral thing, maybe it's time to cut the bullshit and show them what a monster really looks like.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

So you would like for them to be their enemy?

[Sudden]

They've only earned themselves further enemies by taking the high ground. I don't expect they'll earn friends by playing just as dirty, but they could take out their enemies quicker than they earn more.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I think they might lose some key allies, like us, if they acted like their enemies.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I wonder if you could clarify the term "demolish the whole lot of that population means" 🙁

[Sudden]

By not being so cautious and trying to preserve "innocent" lives.

Seriously, just once, firebomb the whole territory like we did Tokyo and Berlin in the 40s, kill tens of thousands in a few days. Show them what monsters really do, what they would fucking do if they had the means.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I don't think the WWII Allied bombings were ideal morals-wise or even from the standpoint of military efficiency.

Christophe reminds us below that the nonviolent act of building a wall seems to have had some effect, despite all the protests of "OMG the symbolism! The feelz! Build bridgez not wallz!"

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Sudden, do you apply the same logic to US forced? Should we just carpet bomb Kandahar indiscriminately?

[Sudden]

No, but at the same time I don't believe (based on my conversations with a few buddies who've done tours in Afghanistan) that it's anywhere near the death cult that Palestinian culture is.

Afghanistan is backwards and tribal and certainly has its issues from a Western libertarian viewpoint, but I don't care. That's their business. We shouldn't be there trying to prop up a govt anyhow. But its not an entire society that is hellbent on destroying us, one that we also share a considerable border with and launches rockets daily into our cities.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

You don't think the Taliban, Al Qaeda, heck, even many of the warlords there are 'anywhere near the death cult that Palestinian culture is?'

[Sudden]

Those are factions within the area. The Taliban are warlords, FWIW, most of the al-Queda types there aren't even fucking Afghani (rather disaffected affluent bourgouis Arabs from the Gulf states, like bin Laden was).

Your average Afghan peasant may cling to antiquated beliefs (even while a generation or two ago, the place was actually a civilization prior to the Soviets fucking it all up) and may not be the model of what we in the West would consider a moral life, but he's doesn't want to die.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I am not sure the average Palestinian does either. What percent of the population there do you think is Hamas?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

A plurality, as per the election.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Plurality < a majority, so it seems one should not generalize on it.

[Sudden]

I.e., that's a ridiculously disingenuous question.

[Sevo]

We getting high-strength sophistry this evening.

[Christophe]

It's still murder ya know. I think the Israeli approach over the last 2 decades is starting to bear fruit:

1. The wall has all but stopped suicide bombings in Israeli territory.
2. Iron Dome has a good chance of nullifying the already not cost effective rocket attacks.
3. The split of Palestinian territory into 2 (controlled by different groups), encourages one of them to take a peace deal first (and use that to present itself as the legitimate political authority).

The flare-ups are getting less frequent, and the Israeli response seems to be getting more measured over time. I'm hopeful for the long term.

Doesn't mean they won't be called Nazi/monsters/etc. even three generations after the fighting ends. But it won't matter much, if no one's willing to keep fighting.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I would like for them to give Abbas a little more, but his moronic embrace of Hamas undercut any hope of that

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

2. Iron Dome has a good chance of nullifying the already not cost effective rocket attacks.

They have plenty of funding from the outside.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Ask the Lebanese/Syrians and Jordanians what hospitality got them after attempting to take in Palestinians over the years. Palestinians are infamous for being hard to deal with. They serve the perfect pawns for the Arab kleptocracies in the wider war against Israel.

Yet, Israel impressively manages to carve a sane democracy in a sea of madness.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I imagine uprooted refugees might be difficult to handle.

As to Israel being a democracy, that must ring pretty hollow if you live in the occupied territories.

[Sudden]

You mean those territories that also have a govt?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Bantustans had governments too

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Territories they took after they were invaded - and won.

Every other major army in history got to keep their spoils. Not Israel though. Suddenly, this is not "acceptable."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Attacked rather.

[Sudden]

Lol, next time I hear some Euro complain about the "occupied" territories, I'll have to remember to tell them how the Nazis were perfectly within their rights to invade and conquer France in order to reacquire Alsace Lorraine

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Every other major army in history got to keep their spoils."

Like Germany, Italy, Japan or more recently Saddam's Iraq?

[Sudden]

So you named every losing army and wonder why they didn't get to keep their conquests?

Last I checked, IDF ain't been beaten once.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I named armies that won many territories and then were forced to give them up with the rationale that such gains would not be tolerated.

I mean, do you seriously want to argue that if the IDF lost this war you would be fine with Hamas ruling half of Israel and doing what they want to them?

[Trouser-Pod]

The IDF didn't start the war, did it?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

This war?

Let's look at how this has gone down.

Three Israeli teens were killed, most likely by Palestinians and, according to the Israeli government, by Hamas agents.

In response to this Israel essentially invaded Palestinian areas searching hundreds of homes and institutions and arresting hundreds of Palestinians.

In response to that, Hamas fired rockets at Israel.

In response to that, the IDF returned (greater) fire and then went full scale ground offensive.

[Trouser-Pod]

Methinks you are leaving some tidbits out, like all those tunnels that were being used to, invade Israel.

But what I was getting at was Israel occupying land that wasn't their's. Seems that came about after they were attacked by Islamic forces trying to destroy them. Israel pushed the armies back, and took the land to deny it going back to the invaders/attackers.

Frankly, I see them keeping it as recompense for being attacked.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

If you want to get technical about it, the Israeli blockade likely preceded most of those tunnels and is itself perhaps an act of war. Either way, tunnels seem less belligerent than Israel going into their territory and tossing thousands of people's places and arresting and detaining hundreds.

But you're talking, I think, about 1948 and 1967? In the latter technically Israel struck first, but more importantly I am not sure the Palestinians themselves, at least not most of them, attacked Israel then, the surrounding Arab nations did. I do not think it would be just to keep their lands because of Jordan, Egypt's etc., misdeeds.

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:13PM|#
"If you want to get technical about it, the Israeli blockade likely preceded most of those tunnels and is itself perhaps an act of war."

The blockade was specific; fail.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Wait, what?

[Sevo]

Bo, fuck you.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Either way, tunnels seem less belligerent.."

Jesus Christ, Bo, Jesus. Christ.

[Sudden]

I think its safe to say that this war began in 1948 and still rages to this day with battles every so often surrounded by periods of shaky ceasefire.

And should Hamas ever succeed in defeating the Israelis and marching in full bore, they won't rule half, they'll rule all. That's what conquering armies do unless and until they get pushed back or thoroughly defeated (y'know like uhhh.. fucking Germany, Italy, Japan, and Saddam's Iraq, all of which represent the most total and complete surrenders in modern military history FFS).

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"And should Hamas ever succeed in defeating the Israelis and marching in full bore, they won't rule half, they'll rule all."

My question to you though, is, would that be right?

[SForza]

Bo, I think it's well-established by now that you're an asshat. My question, though, is this: are you a hat one wears on one's ass? Or are you a hat, made out of someone else's ass, that one wears on one's head?

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 7:42PM|#
"I named armies that won many territories and then were forced to give them up with the rationale that such gains would not be tolerated."

Fail.
The were forced to give them up because they were gained by aggression, and I'm sure you knew that.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

1967?

[Sevo]

"1967?"

Uh,
"Like Germany, Italy, Japan or more recently Saddam's Iraq?"

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Remind me who struck first in the Seven Days War?

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:29PM|#
"Remind me who struck first in the Seven Days War?"

Yeah, Bo:
"A period of high tension had preceded the war. In response to PLO sabotage acts against Israeli targets,[14][15][16] Israel raided into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank[17][18] and initiated flights over Syria, which ended with aerial clashes over Syrian territory,[19]"

So shame on the Allies for "attacking" Normandy, right?
Ya know, your sophistry it getting obnoxious and insulting.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Sevo, your comparison of 'high tension' with the Axis invading and occupying Normandy for years shows how lacking your position here is.

You should just go back to race baiting.

[Ted S.]

Egypt blockaded the entrance to the Gulf of Aqaba, which is kinda sorta an act of war.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Name me a perfect democracy. It's a little sordid in the area if you haven't noticed. And maybe perhaps if they'd try actually quitting the 'kill the Jews' rhetoric peace could happen. Alas, they don't want that - clearly.

I think, you know, with millions of Arabs wanting to throw you into the sea, that it's functioning deserves some credit. Arabs are represented in the Knesset if I'm not mistaken.

Just my take. Could be wrong.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I am not talking perfect, I am talking one that currently occupies and essentially colonizes many millions of people. That's not a slight chink in the armor!

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 7:32PM|#
"I am not talking perfect, I am talking one that currently occupies and essentially colonizes many millions of people."

"essentially occupies" = does not occupy.
Fail.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I did not say "essentially occupies" I said "currently occupies and essentially colonizes."

[Sevo]

OK,
"Essentially colonizes" = does no colonize.
Happy?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The IDF calls ahead to announce that a given PA building is being targeted to allow for evacuation. Hamas then proceeds to pack school children around said building.

I'll never figure out how the "Palestinian Cause" became chic in academia.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

How much calling ahead do they actually do? And how much of that is PR to keep allies like us on their side? I don't tend to trust any government agency, whether ours, Israel, or the PA for that matter

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I don't have a survey on hand. But the incident that resulted in heavy civilian casualties last week was a call ahead, neither side disputes that. Hamas packed the building with human shields, IDF found out, tried to self destruct the missile before it reached the target, and failed.

Those deaths are 100% on Hamas. It's exactly what they wanted; wheelbarrows full of dead children to parade on CNN.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Is the source for your first paragraph the IDF? If it is my point is I trust what the IDF says it did about as much as I do our IRS.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Bo, it's been a well-known fact this is what terrorists do.

So much so remember when Americans were going to Iraq to act as shields to protest Bush.

It's a tactic that works beautifully into the hands of useful idiots in the Western media and I'm starting to sense you. Come on!

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Well known from what source?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Holy shit.

We used to talk about this in poli sci class back in the fucking 1990s!

Seriously, Bo?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Your source is your 1990 poli sci class?

I am not trying to give you a hard time, it is just that a lot of what 'everyone knows' and gets taught in a poli sci class is sometimes, after scrutiny, found to be inaccurate.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Er, yes? Minor in political science and it was a Mid-East politics class.

Not good enough for you? You want the professors credentials too?

Want me to scan all the sources and periodicals discussing the matter? I'm sorry, I didn't record the class lectures though. I didn't think I'd need to convince Bo in the future.

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 7:18PM|#
"Is the source for your first paragraph the IDF? If it is my point is I trust what the IDF says it did about as much as I do our IRS."

And yet you trust the Pals explicitly?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Absolutely not. As I said "I don't tend to trust any government agency, whether ours, Israel, or the PA for that matter"

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:15PM|#
"Absolutely not. As I said "I don't tend to trust any government agency, whether ours, Israel, or the PA for that matter""

And yet your skepticism seems a bit biased, shall we say.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

In what way? Please point it out specifically.

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:22PM|#
"In what way? Please point it out specifically."

Playing lawyer tonight?
I'm not; I'm reading your constant apologies for the Pals and your seeming difficulty with the cosmopolitans.
The bias is quite obvious.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

So obvious you can not point out one specific instance of it?

This conversation began with someone commenting on how humane the IDF is. I doubt that claim. That's all I have done and that does not mean any defense of anything the other side is doing.

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:33PM|#
"So obvious you can not point out one specific instance of it?"

Oh, I can point to a bunch and I'm not going to waste time reading your excuse for each and every one.
------------------
" That's all I have done and that does not mean any defense of anything the other side is doing."

Of course it doesn't Bo!
Quack, waddle, swim = duck.

[Alton Knutson]

When I was in college during the first gulf war a hippie type liberal I went to school with went to Iraq to act as a human shield.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

It's a good rule of thumb to look at what academic supports and then at least entertain the presumption that the other side is right. There are exceptions of course.

[Suthenboy]

True. The moral contrast between the Israelis and Palastinians could not be more stark. My dogs are more humane than Hamas and deserve more consideration.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Are they more humane, or more polished in their PR?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I generally listen or read Arab perspectives with a raised eyebrow not unlike Bugs Bunny.

My father-in-laws brother (Lebs) said it best "they believe in all 1001 and fairy tales and argue over it" in describing what it was like to work with Arabs in the grocery profession.

Imagine politics.

[Suthenboy]

They are more humane by a long shot. My dogs regularly show empathy. Palestinians cheer in the street when babies have their throats cut.

Give it up Bo. They are savages.

[Sudden]

Are they more humane, or more polished in their PR?

The Palestinians are ridiculously polished in their PR. How does a govt set their own infant children up to slaughtered, send their 13 year old daughters to self-detonate in pizzarias, etc and still manage to be perceived as the victim if not for brilliant PR and a global media that is derelict in its reporting?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Maybe individual IDF soldiers act like American cops when on patrol in the territories. I have no idea.

But the idea that IDF indiscriminately targets civilians is absurd. Hamas has no problem lobbing explosives at Israeli towns knowing full well that Israel will retaliate in a way that makes the people of Gaza suffer.

Fuck them. They clearly have zero regard for life on either side.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

They may not indiscriminately target civilians, but they somehow manage to kill many times that of their enemies, and still get their ways praised as 'humane' by many citizens of this nation, their crucial enemy. If one were, say, cynical towards the claims of governments (such as Israel's) and their agencies (such as the IDF) one might wonder if that's all a little too neat.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The Palestinians are evil and incompetent. It's not a good thing to be when your sworn enemy is highly competent.

[Suthenboy]

"The Palestinians are evil and incompetent."

Interesting that you would use that word. The palestinians have had more than one go at having their own state. The governments they set up have been completely incapable of providing even basic services. No water, no electricity, no policing, no medical services....nothing. They are just gangs of thugs who only know how to bully. Israel supplies the water and electricity to the palestinians while the palestinians beg for rockets and bullets to shoot at Israel.

FUCK. THEM.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The Palestinian incompetence is one of the biggest impediments to peace. They're forced to resort to scapegoating the Jews to keep the populace from revolting.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

You do not see any tension in these two parts of your comment:

"the palestinians have had more than one go at having their own state."

"Israel supplies the water and electricity to the palestinians"

[Sudden]

Do we cease to have our own state here in California since we're forced to resort to importation of water from our neighboring Western states?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Give it up, dude. It's beer time. You going out tonight? (after the show, of course)

[Sudden]

Going out to the 'burbs to visit family and friends for the weekend.

Going to a cigar lounge tonight that's frequented by Israelis ironically. Then tomorrow got a bday thing to go to in the evening. Then Sunday during the daytime gonna do some shooting with a buddy up in Oxnard.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'll get the details down thread. Bo's being a retard here.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I think there's quite a bit difference between how California is 'forced' to import water and the Gazans situation.

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:17PM|#
"I think there's quite a bit difference between how California is 'forced' to import water and the Gazans situation."

And what would that be?

[Suthenboy]

They are incapable of running any kind of functioning government.

They are incapable of supplying themselves with water or power.

Tension?

[Pathogen]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 7:52PM|#

You do not see any tension in these two parts of your comment:

"the palestinians have had more than one go at having their own state."

"Israel supplies the water and electricity to the palestinians"

Yeah, the Palestinians should have the dignity of drinking seawater, free from the meddlesome Israelis and their "fresh. water.". Freshwater pipes are for izzy-al-qassam rockets, seawater pipes are for drinking...

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 7:36PM|#
"They may not indiscriminately target civilians, but they somehow manage to kill many times that of their enemies"

What a bone-headed argument! Were the Allies supposed to stop killing the krauts after we hit parity?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

My comment had to do with whether Israel was really so much more humane, or whether they had better PR. The death toll was not to argue about parity, but one factor that might counsel one to be skeptical of all the PR about humaneness.

[Sevo]

"The death toll was not to argue about parity, but one factor that might counsel one to be skeptical of all the PR about humaneness."

It's nothing of the sort. You think WWII Japan was more 'humane' than the US?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I said "one factor."

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:22PM|#
"I said "one factor.""

And I called you on your bullshit.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

And I explained it previously. Look, this debate has gone on much longer than I thought, wanted, or should have allowed, so I will summarize my position and let you have the last word. I am skeptical of all governments and government agencies that defend their actions. I do not have some special exception for the Israeli government and its agencies. Israel is a Western style country with a much more sophisticate PR effort. They are much more careful about what they say and what they do, but most Western government agencies are like this and we should take them with skepticism. True, they don't make explicit assertions about genocide of their enemies, but they (Likud and the like) have long made claims that 'the Whole of Israel' is really theirs and will be a Jewish nation, this clearly implies something pretty awful for all the people currently living in that land. I hear them say how humane their warmaking is, but I am skeptical of their claims just as I am of those of our own IRS, and the high civilian death tolls bolster that suspicion.

If you want to buy what the Israeli government is selling uncritically, I doubt I can put a dent in that.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Look, this debate has gone on much longer than I thought, wanted, or should have allowed
-Bo Cara Esq.

That is the funniest shit I have ever read. Ya know, I'm glad I unblocked you.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Like I wanted my statement of skepticism about the IDF's claimed humaneness to become an argument on more fronts than Israel faced in 48? Sheesh, you guys here like Israel and their government a lot, I get it. Usually libertarians I've known are a bit more skeptical of all that.

But cest la vie.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They admitted to targeting a nuclear power plant on the Israeli side with one of their rocket attacks.. The chances of them hitting it were small, but regardless, that's what they were trying to do.

Imagine what the consequences would be if they were successful. My grandchildren would probably only know what Arabs were by reading history books.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Is there a source for that claim?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

http://www.jpost.com/Operation.....aza-362087

Before you try and blame that on IDF propaganda, take note that the claim came from a Hamas spokesman.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The Jerusalem Post article says "Hamas claimed responsibility for the rockets, stating that it had been attempting to hit the nuclear reactor" but I see no mention of any spokesman.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Holy shit you are an asshole. Where the fuck do you think the information came from? Do you think this is the only article on the incident?

Do me a favor. Go find the perfect antonym for "gracious" so that's what we can all call you from now on.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I googled the story. There was a Reuters report which referenced the J Post article.

Are you really going to give me a hard time because I don't instantly accept a newspaper report relying on an unnamed sourcing?

[PapayaSF]

Reminds me of an old joke:

Q: Why are there no Arabs on Star Trek?

A: Because it takes place in the future.

[The Last American Hero]

Read their charter, then get back to me about how humane and deserving they are of the moral high ground.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

As I said, they are certainly much less polished at their PR game than the Israeli government.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Noting that this was a day of the week ending in "y" I decided to see if Bo would be found in the Reason comments spouting off at length about topics he clearly does not understand.

An, lo, here he is and it's impressive. Much the way 12 dogs taking a shit on the same shoe is impressive.

I think Bo needs the same thing that Richman needs. Just to scream "ISREAL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST!!" at the top of his lungs. Just get it out of his system. All of the coyness and strained cleverness and euphemisms have to eat at a guy.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

From my experience, people who wonder into a discussion about Israel and whose first go to argument is that someone really just wants Israel not to exist is probably the one with some lack of understanding about the topic.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

From my experience, people who blah blah blah blah..

Fuckin' weak. Try again, dude.

[Suthenboy]

I have no explanation for why people defend the palestinians and blame the .......Jews...the Jews....OH, now I get it.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Wow, Suthenboy playing a race card. Interesting.

[Suthenboy]

Your justification for your moronic defense of bloodthirsty savages being that you don't trust government agencies is pretty feeble.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Where have I defended bloodthirsty savages at all? I have only questioned the IDF's claims they are so humane.

[Sudden]

In fairness, I might be anti-semitic myself. I really don't trust semitic Israeli Jews or the semitic peoples around them.

My flaw is that I have a thing for their women, so by necessity I deal with them all the time.

[Suthenboy]

You have a thing for women with hairy legs and mustaches?

[Sudden]

The second and third generation ones out West here are generally up on their hygiene and wax regularly.

[Suthenboy]

I was joking, but now that you mention hygiene, individuals from desert cultures are not very good about bathing.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They look good on the beach. Jews just love sand.

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:01PM|#
"As I said, they are certainly much less polished at their PR game than the Israeli government."

Yeah, claiming you wish to wipe a people off the face of the earth isn't good PR.
But it's something else too, and you seem to be defending it.
Do you have a small problem with, oh, 'cosmopolitans'?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Sevo, what do you think of the long held Likud position on Eretz Yisrael Ha-Shlema, and how is it significantly different?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Likud isn't blowing up teenagers in ice cream parlors, shopping malls, and disco techs.

FAIL.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Just small children on beaches, huh?

[Cytotoxic]

Killing children by accident during war = no longer morally superior to genocidal Islamofascists aggression against you

-This is what retarded immoral pieces of shit like Bo actually think.

I'd like to say I am very proud that the 'Likud faction' of the H&R commentariat has become dominant over the apologists for Palestinian degeneracy. Coincidentally, the anti-Israel movement seems weaker than ever IRL.

[Sevo]

Bo Cara Esq.|7.18.14 @ 8:21PM|#
"Sevo, what do you think of the long held Likud position on Eretz Yisrael Ha-Shlema, and how is it significantly different?"

Bo, how long have you been an apologist for murderers? Is it something you've just picked up?
Are you catholic in your apologies, or just the murderers who murder joooze?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Okay, I was going to just walk away, but I can not let your loathesome race card playing go uncalled. I have challenged you to point to any specific 'apology for murderers' I have made here and you have not. I am not even going to dignify your disgusting, pathetic attempt to smear me as anti-Semitic, like some two bit race hustler, because I know you can point to no instance of this on my part either. I'll invite you to go peddle your race baiting somewhere more used to it, like Daily Kos.

[PapayaSF]

Are they more humane, or more polished in their PR?

I don't see how anyone who thinks about it can seriously ask that question. The Israelis have jets, tanks, and nukes, and the Palestinians have small arms and unguided rockets. Obviously the Israelis could kill every occupant of Gaza and the West Bank if they wanted to. Clearly the Israelis are restraining themselves, and it also seems clear the Palestinians are not doing so, and would not do so if they had Israeli-level weapons.

[SForza]

"I don't see how anyone who thinks"

Well, it is Bo we're talking about.

[WDATPDIM!?]

"I was reading comments on a Israeli Defense Forces facebook post ..."

Oh joy, another gazillion-comment gumming of Israelis vs. Palestinians.

[PapayaSF]

Science proves it: The more people are exposed to socialism, the worse they behave.

[Brandon]

No shit. Treat people like retarded children, they eventually start to act like retarded children.

[Sudden]

Also, people who teach retarded children start acting like retarded children.

Source: close intimate contact with SpEd teachers.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Source: close intimate contact with SpEd teachers.

[Brandon]

Hans Monderman proved it years ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01......html?_r=0

[Rufus J. Firefly]

One of the first things I began to conclude on my long way into the arms of classical liberalism was how socialism/progressivism can BUT turn a society into dependents. The goal is to make it a 'communal, no one gets rich alone' utopia but in reality all it amounts to is taking from one person to give it to another. They package it as 'price for civilization.'

Call it for what it is: A type of slavery.

Or.

Bull shit.

[WDATPDIM!?]

But of course. People perform to the test.

[Stickler Meeseeks]

Grades at higher universities now to be given out by race and ethnicity.

http://www.mindingthecampus.co.....t-madison/

[The Last American Hero]

Since when is Buckyland a higher university?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I used to work for a tissue transplant bank. It's a tricky business. It's non-profit right up until it isn't. We got sued by Michael Douglas' fat younger brother and his girlfriend (now wife). They are bona fide crazy.

[Warrren]

Independent mass tremble!

[jesse.in.mb]

Stop trying to bring back the Harlem Shake.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Around the age of 80, in bed, with a belly full of wine and a woman's mouth wrapped around my penis.

[Episiarch]

Why did you selectively edit Tyrion's quote, Serious? Hmmm?!?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Cock isn't a word I like to use. Just never liked the sound of it.

[Episiarch]

That was the lesser of the edits I was referring to.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Did I mess up the age or what? I'm quoting that based on memory.

[Episiarch]

"In my own bed, at the age of 80, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my cock."

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Well there you go. I prefer women to girls.

[Lady Bertrum]

You hurt Leghorn Foghorn's feelings.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Is that Foghorn Leghorn's evil twin from the Mirror Universe?

[Lady Bertrum]

That's right. He's a rather large and aggressive cock.

[Episiarch]

"Let's bury - I say, let's bury the hatchet, but not in anyone's head, boy."

[WDATPDIM!?]

"and a woman's mouth wrapped around my penis"

Ed Gein style?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

At work, getting paid to do nothing. Seriously. I'm sitting at my desk with instructions from my boss (who leaves before me) to just look over my orientation notes until I leave at 5.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

They say that when the student is ready, the master will appear -

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1999-08-22/

[Episiarch]

That's very common when starting a new job. They don't know what to have you do yet, or you're not up to speed enough on anything to actually be given a project, or whatever. That should go away soon.

I'm also doing nothing (and getting paid for it), but that's because my manager is in France right now and the fix I'm currently implementing will take, oh, probably 20 hours or more to run. And I did all my other tasks.

Fuck it, it's Friday.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Boss? I thought you were freelance. Do you keep sake in your desk?

[Episiarch]

Did I use the word "boss"? READ MUCH?!?

No sake. I'm going to a new restaurant after work and their cuisine is "modern interpretations of Old World dishes". I'll get myself some drinks there.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I conceptually encode as part of having an impeccable memory. One of the downsides of that is that I occasionally encode incorrectly. So so sorry. "Manager".

Enjoy your spaghetti.

[Episiarch]

As if I would eat something that wasn't mostly protein and fat. Or booze.

No, I'm going to get their sausages, possibly the oxtail soup with the bone marrow dumplings, and some foie gras.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Is this by any chance a Chris Cosentino restaurant?

[Episiarch]

No. I believe it's from the same people who opened Local 360, which, for all its "local" bullshit, has fantastic meat and the chefs know what they're doing. When you order your steak black and blue, they know what you mean.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Huh. Sounded like there might be some offal involved, because you mentioned marrow, oxtail, and sausage.

I'm just now exploring the world of offal. I've really missed out.

[Los Doyers]

I also get paid to sit at my desk in my DC apartment. I'm getting tired of calling county GIS offices looking for shapefiles.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Can you get me a shape file for LA County?

What would I need to read it? ARC GIS?

[Los Doyers]

I use QGIS to map my files. It's free and its interface isn't too difficult. LA County is a unique motherfucker. All counties within the US use one of several election management systems, but LA County, they made their own system just for themselves. Because they can. You can actually call their GIS department and request the shapefiles. Just say you're using them for "scholarly" purposes.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What data do they have? Just census, or everything? I'm most interested in property titles...

[Episiarch]

If you want property title shapes, you are almost assuredly going to have to pay someone for them, and probably a third party and not the county. DataQuick is a large provider, but I don't know if they sell to dilettantes like you.

Zillow has all that shit loaded into their interface (and DataQuick is their provider). Can you just mine that?

[Sudden]

If you want property title shapes, you are almost assuredly going to have to pay someone for them, and probably a third party and not the county.

Yeah, if you're looking for particular property dimensions/plat maps, just email me a list of properties you wanna know and I'll pull the info for you.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

1757 8th St. MB, 90266.

I put in an offer on a bank owned. Somebody yanked it out from under me, and I want to know what they paid.

The house was a tear down, but on one of the biggest lots in Manhattan Beach. I could have flipped it for 7 figures, or built a dream house there.

[Episiarch]

They paid $4,000,000 for it. It took me ten seconds on Zillow to find that out. I honestly cannot believe someone paid four million for a 2,100 square foot house. That's beyond insane. My uncle's two million dollar house in north Jersey is like 5,000 square feet or something.

[Episiarch]

Link here. Scroll down to Price History.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

My bad, that wasn't there 2 days ago, and the bank was being secretive.

Also, it was 1850 square feet. The property would be cheaper if there were no house on it.

It's on a half acre, which is un-fucking heard of in Manhattan Beach. It'll be worth at least $8mil when there is a livable house on the lot, and more likely closer to $10 mil.

[Sudden]

It's only pending at $4,000,000 which means that's the list price. A lot of those pendings won't reflect actual price paid. Once it closes, I can get you the actual price, money down, and the buyer's interest rate and bank for any mortgage.

[Episiarch]

Man I wish I still had access to the full sale info. Of course, I wouldn't get it for a few weeks so it wouldn't be much help. But it's always illuminating seeing the loan terms and the amount and rate.

Zillow has it as "sale pending", and that was the list price, so it's probably going to be that.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Man, mine is 6000 sq ft. My parents 9300 sq ft.

Not worth those numbers though. 800k for my parents.

[Sudden]

The value there is the land. Half acre with development potential for a small subdivision given separate lots.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Rufus, this is what a 5000 sq ft house goes for in my town:
http://www.trulia.com/property.....h-CA-90266

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Wow. By comparison:

Laval sur le lac:

http://bit.ly/1p3pw3C

Val-des-arbes (where I grew up):

http://bit.ly/1roqwTn

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I can't really read French. Are those gold plated fixtures?!?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It's Laval on the Lake; sorta like Westmount in Montreal. So quite possibly yes.

[Sudden]

It's still listed as accepting backup offers right now and hasn't yet recorded a closing on county records. Had you spoken with the city regarding development potential? It shows as three lots and was marketed as development potential for up to three homes, but one of them is a small lot that may be under the min lot size for the zoning ordinance (

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I didn't have the funds to go at it alone. I'll talk to my brother, but I assume he's done with this deal. He is in the process of closing on a house in Oak Park.

3 Lots? It showed as a SFR....

[Sudden]

MB: As per county, it's three separate lots, but they're zoned residential. The MLS listing on the property the realtor is pitching it as potential for up to three homes development (buyer to verify with City).

OP: I know that neighborhood pretty well. My old stomping grounds. I'm assuming your bro is buying that as a family home and not a flip investment? I was raised less than a mile from that place. If you ever wanna talk him out of it, introduce us and you can tell him after the fact that his kids will turn out like that guy if he moves there. Otherwise, nice family area and the schools are pretty good.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yeah. He just had his 3rd kid, it's time to move. I hope they have good fire insurance, it's right on the edge of civilization.

[Sudden]

The HOA at my parent's neighborhood just decided to get 400 goats to do brush clearance on the hill behind they're house.

[Sudden]

If you're interested, I can follow up on the property after closing. I can get you the buyer's price in and contact info. Since it's three separate parcels, he should be able to sell off one individually if the right offer is made.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I wanted the whole thing.

Dream=shattered.

[Los Doyers]

What Epi said, most county GIS departments don't fuck with private property shapefiles. You'll have to pay to go through a third party.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Sucks. I used to have a contract with my city, and they just gave them to me. I wonder if they had to pay for them...

[Sudden]

Specific properties or owners or something?

You can try GIS encoded ZIMAS for the City of Los Angeles. Should give you a wealth of information about any individual property you wanna search.

[Episiarch]

Oh, I have been there and done that. I had to get a set of political township shapes for Cook County (Chicago) because the Tiger/Line ones weren't for the aldermen's regions but for "towns" or some bullshit. And they were in a local Illinois coordinate system that I had to convert to the global coordinate system I was using. Fun.

Why are you calling the counties for shape files? Just download them from Tiger/Line (the Census).

[Los Doyers]

I'm looking for shapefiles that specifically map out county's voting precincts and their local political boundaries (school district, college district, supervisor, etc). In my experience, most counties (or parishes, and God is Louisiana fucking difficult) don't have these files available on their websites. So I usually have to call them and do a bit of wrangling to get them. Sometimes they want payment, sometimes not. Tiger is good, but often doesn't have the specific local maps that I need.

[Episiarch]

Tiger/Line has a lot of shapes but some of them are lumped together in more general-sounding files. I've found school district files in there and other things like that.

Going to the county wasn't something I had to do--the researchers had to deal with them directly--but they sure made it sound like it sucked ass dealing with them.

[Los Doyers]

Yeah, them sucking ass is a gross understatement. Typical bureaucratic bullshit: "well I'm gonna have to speak with my supervisor for this and that and that and this," even though the file takes about a minute to attach and email to me.

[Sudden]

I'm also doing nothing (and getting paid for it), but that's because my manager is in France right now

Interestingly enough, even if you lived and worked in France, that would still make sense.

[flye]

Je suis Monsieur Directeur!

[OneOut]

Worth reading.

http://eagnews.org/with-nation.....ing-carts/

[Lady Bertrum]

The goal is to steer consumers toward fruits and vegetables ? and away from sugar- and fat-laden items.

Ah, yes. The US government continuing to fuck up the American diet.

[PapayaSF]

Those carts are hard enough to steer already!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Both sides claimed victory Friday, July 11, after a judge ruled that Cal Baptist University in Riverside could exclude a [sexually-confused man] from on-campus classes but not university-controlled businesses and services that are open to the public....

"Javier, 27, was suspended and then expelled in August 2011 after revealing in an episode of MTV's "A True Life" that [he] is biologically a male. [He] had listed [his] gender as female on [his] application for enrollment to study nursing. Cal Baptist said [he] was expelled for fraud and that the university does not bar transgender students....

"[Superior Court Judge Julia Connor] Trask ruled that the Unruh Act applies to an organization's business operations only. At Cal Baptist, those included a counseling center, restaurant, library and art gallery ? but not its classes on campus in which faculty are required to integrate Christian values into both religious and secular courses."

http://www.pe.com/articles/jav.....rsity.html

[jesse.in.mb]

Both sides claimed victory Friday, July 11, after a judge ruled that Cal Baptist University in Riverside could exclude a transgender woman from on-campus classes but not university-controlled businesses and services that are open to the public.

Remember that time that OneNewsNow (news arm of the AFA) automatically replaced all references of gay to homosexual which entertainingly ended with Olympic sprinter Tyson Gay being listed as Tyson Homosexual on their site?

The American Family Association gave a new twist to its Olympic coverage thanks to its strict policy to always replace the word "gay" with "homosexual" on the website of its Christian news outlet, OneNewsNow.

The group's automated system ran a story about Tyson Gay qualifying for the Olympics, but as it changed the forbidden word, wound up publishing a story about "Tyson Homosexual".

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Gay, homosexual, Judy Garland fan, it's all one to me.

But is there a *neutral* way to cover a story like this, involving someone born a man but claiming (s)he's now a woman?

If there's a neutral way, the media doesn't seem to have found it - as with this article which instructs the reader dogmatically that the university is wrong and the individual in question is a woman now that he/she has indentified him/herself as such.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Possible gender-neutral terminology:

"Some groups and individuals have invented, borrowed and used non-standard pronouns, hoping they will become standard. Various proposals for such changes have been around since at least the 19th century. For example, abbreviated pronouns have been proposed: 'e (for he or she) or 's (for his/hers); h' (for him/her in object case); "zhe" (also "ze"), "zher(s)" (also "zer" or "zir"), "shi"/"hir", and "zhim" (also "mer") for "he or she", "his or her(s)", and "him or her", respectively; 'self (for himself/herself); and hu, hus, hum, humself (for s/he, his/hers, him/her, himself/herself)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....d_pronouns

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Have I *finally* managed to piss you off? I didn't set out to do so.

[jesse.in.mb]

Gender neutral pronouns in English drive me nuts. As does the petty pedantry of [sic]ing an article to death when one disagrees with the author.

I don't know that transgender woman is non-neutral. It acknowledges that she was born a man and now identifies as a woman in dryly technical terms. But I know how important it is to own the terminology in any discussion, so carry on I suppose.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Yes, I was trying to plant my flag. If there were a neutral expression I'd try to use it, but I am somewhat committed to the idea that if someone was born with dangly bits, even if he later regrets it or even has surgery to remove them, he's still a man.

But if there were a way to avoid provocation, I'd try it. I suppose I could just quote the article in its original form - it's not as if the article's viewpoint would be imputed to me.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Now, the reason I don't think the original article was neutral is that it uses the term "she" to describe a person who was born with dangly bits. And it says "woman," albeit with the prefix "transgender."

"An individual who was born a man and now identifies as a woman?"

Or just repeat the person's name, like "God" in the gender-neutral hymns. "Javier was expelled when Javier revealed that Javier was born a male."

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I'm also somewhat on the autism spectrum, so figure that into your calculations.

[jesse.in.mb]

I don't *get* the transgender thing personally, but somebody once said "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (I think it was Siddhartha Gautama or Confucius, I can never keep these people straight) and I feel like that's a pleasant way of handling it. If I identified as a woman and weren't going out of my way to be a dick about it, such as requiring people to call me "Hex" I would hope that people would respect that, so I'll do it for them.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I wouldn't blurt out "you're really a man, aren't you" to their* face, if only because it would be a dick move and wouldn't change minds.

But in this particular case, this particular individual wants to impose, ah, *their* views of sex on a private institution.

*There's a sex-neutral term!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

If someone really gets dickish about wanting me to affirm their self-identification, I'd try to respectfully lay out my views, but if bringing up my views wouldn't be productive, I hope I would steer clear of the dicey topic.

Sometimes (like on H&R) people come here for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

and I try to oblige.

[jesse.in.mb]

"Their" has a pretty long history of being a gender neutral singular pronoun although you wouldn't know that from the last hundred years or so of grammar pedantry.

But if there were a way to avoid provocation, I'd try it.

You're welcome to respond to transgender folks however you want although I think replacing "transgendered woman" "sexually-confused man" because you don't think "transgendered woman" is neutral enough makes you seem like a troglodyte. You could always just say "I appreciate her right to self expression but the school has a right to structure their admission processes however they see fit as a private institution."

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OK, then, troglodyte it is.

But I agree I should have simply quoted the article without correcting it, as I admitted above.

[Ted S.]

Finnish has h?n for both sexes, although I've been told that in conversational Finnish, it's not uncommon for Finns to use se, which is supposed to be for inanimate objects.

Not that the lack of gendered pronouns has led to a more sexually equal society if you ask the usual suspects.

[GILMORE]

"transgender woman"

There has to be a more-accurate way of Genderfying people. This sort of shit always confuses me as to whether they're talking "current pretend-gender" or "actual gender, transified! (therefore reversed)".

I.e. I'm *guessing* the above is referencing a Guy, but one that is now Womanified in some capacity. But who knows?

[jesse.in.mb]

I just remember it as Trans[itioning] to [sex identified with], but that's just my stalactite/stalagmite thing.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Faith-based nerd alert!

"Tolkien & Lewis, an $18 million British film that will feature the strength and the strain of the famous friendship, is aiming for an Easter release, according to the Hollywood Reporter. The film, to be produced by Attractive Films and directed by Simon West (Lara Croft: Tomb Raider; The Expendables 2), is aimed at a faith-based audience....

"At the same time, Fox Searchlight and Peter Chernin of Chernin Entertainment are working on a biopic of Tolkein's life, titled simply Tolkien, which will focus on how his academic career at Oxford and his military service during World War I affected the creation of Middle Earth....

"Other cinematic versions of the authors' lives are also underway..."

http://www.christianitytoday.c.....-narn.html

[Trouser-Pod]

Heard about it yesterday, and am looking forward to it.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Which one? The T&L one?

[Trouser-Pod]

Yes. Actually, I was skimming the article, and didn't really notice the part about biopic. I'm intrigued by it, too.

[Warrren]

Tolkien and Shari Lewis were friends?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That would have been awesome.

[Trouser-Pod]

Imagine the puppet she might have used were that to have been the case...

[Sudden]

The WWI affecting Middle Earth interests me.

We're 10 days away from the centennial of the official declarations of war from WWI. I'm gonna start reading Niall Ferguson's massive tome The Pity of War this weekend.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I would recommend John Garth's *Tolkien and the Great War: The Threshold of Middle-earth.*

[Sudden]

Thanks for the rec, I'll check it out after I get through Ferguson's book.

[Raven Nation]

I read it about a decade ago and my recollection is that it was worth it. Even if most historians think he's wrong about a lot of stuff.

The one point he made that I remember is that he offered a lot of economic evidence that WWI was actually a surprise when the shooting started rather than being long anticipated.

[Sudden]

I know the Brits were very reticent to get involved and tried desperately to find a diplomatic out. Really looking forward to that read.

[Warrren]

"We don't have time for propaganda, we don't have time for games."--- Obama.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Isn't golf a game? He has time for *that.*

[Trouser-Pod]

Obligatory

/ducks and runs

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I knew it! Even before I clicked on the link, I knew it!

[jesse.in.mb]

By the by, someone left an evangelical tract on my windshield about one of the kids in the McMartin scandal. I didn't toss it away immediately because I thought you might have an interest in it.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

When you in Torrance, or here?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

*you were in*

[jesse.in.mb]

Aye. We don't get a lot of leafleting in our parking lot at work, so I was surprised.

Trying to find a link to a web version of it I've found that he had some kind of child bride scandal a few years ago that this article may be propagandizing against.

[GILMORE]

Ugh. Slimy Rick Ungar is on Cavuto doing his "argument by tone-of-voice" thing. He's so gross I want to punch him through the screen. He's all like, 'Uhm, *guys*?? Hilary *isnt* donating money to herself, OK!? COME *ON!*, cause, like... uh, *hello!* "Foundation!" - not the *same thing"

Like Bo, Ungar seems to argue by saying nothing at all and just making smarmy sounds of contention rather than ever making a logical statement 'why' this particular interpretation is the most obvious.

Dear Independents = please never, ever, ever, have him back. We know, 'he's available' and free and Fox probably has him on retainer... but really. No. Please.

[Sevo]

"Slimy Rick Ungar is on Cavuto doing his "argument by tone-of-voice" thing"

He doesn't even have to *do* the air-quotes for them to be visible.

[VG Zaytsev]

Like Bo, Ungar ...

YOu mean he's an anti-semite too?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

INDEPENDENTS ASSEMBLE!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmILOL55xP0

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Death.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Matt is dressing for the show by looking like a funeral parlor director.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Prediction: Your time would be better spent watching 'Pushing Daisies' on Netflix than this

[jesse.in.mb]

Not Dead Like Me?

I preferred Wonderfalls for my Brian Fuller tastes.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Never seen 'Wonderfalls' or 'Dead Like Me'.

I do like the idea, however, that Wonderfalls, Pushing Daisies, and Hannibal exist in the same TV universe.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Are you shitting me? The party panel isn't even in studio? I'm not watching this.

[Fist of Etiquette]

(Mostly because I'm heading out to run some alcohol through my kidney.)

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

My grandpa's will with regard to his final expenses was so exact he even had a list of people he didn't want at his funeral.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Who was on the list?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Not sure.

I didn't know him as well as I would have liked due to the distance between New York and California, but he seemed like a guy that either liked people or strongly disliked people he had to deal with in his life.

[Raven Nation]

Now THAT'S awesome.

Reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUgVgkrcqhk

[GILMORE]

Its a good thing they didnt bring on someone creepy to talk about dead bodies

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Who spoke with a Romanian accent.

[Bobarian]

Why would they? Welch is already there

[Medical Physics Guy]

In America, with American cable, watching my first Independents. Yay!

[Jesus H. Christ]

Congrats!

I guess...

[Medical Physics Guy]

Maybe BBC Scotland will pick it up. Haha.

[Sudden]

Where in Scotland you live? I'm planning to retire in Inverary should I make it that long into life.

[Medical Physics Guy]

Missed this. Do you mean Inverurie? I live in Edinburgh

[jesse.in.mb]

*makes note to invite himself for drinks at MPG's place when he goes to Edinburgh*

[Derpetologist]

Hmmm. How would I like to die and what you happen to my remains?

I don't know about the first one, but I would like to have my skeleton preserved for use as a Halloween decoration.

In West Africa, custom coffins are all the rage:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/arti.....ing-coffin

[SweatingGin]

"How would I like to die"

Hail of gunfire.

[Bobarian]

"How would I like to die"

Have my head cut off by some guy named Mcleod in a few hundred years.

"happen to my remains"

Worshiped by a religious cult.

[SweatingGin]

Ooh, good thinking. Build a church around this finger bone.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'm P-L-A-Y-A and I have a B-O-N-E-R.

What? Nobody else had that commercial?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Yeah, C.O.P.D.

Which doesn't sound nearly as fun as the commercial makes out.

[Antilles]

Shit, a bit of a downer episode for a Friday (when I'm usually up because I don't have to work for 2 days). But I'll keep drinking (Stone Enjoy by 08.16.14 IPA--good stuff!) and it'll be easy to forget that we'll ALL be dead less than a century from now...

[Medical Physics Guy]

drinking New Glarus Spotted Cow over here

[Antilles]

Damn, we don't get that one in California! Will keep an eye out for that brewery the next time I leave the People's Republic of Cali. But at least we get Stone here. This new one is 9.4% and so hoppy they recommend we drink it before the date in the name. Drinking the last of my bomber now...

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I might have asked before, but where are you?

[Antilles]

I'm currently staying in Anaheim, California--down the street from Disneyland. But I'm a SoCal native and have lived here for most of the 50 years I've been alive.

[Sudden]

Your official craft beer shop should be Mr. K's in Placentia. It's right near The Bruery off Orangethorpe just before the 57.

Great selection. Every time I go to The Bruery to pick up my preservation society I stop there and get a few bottles of amazing beer. They just got in more Sierra Nevada Beer Camp Tour 12ers today (each beer is different and brewed in collab with a different brewer, some that don't get distro out here). HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! The maibock brewed with Cigar City and the IPL were among my favs.

[jesse.in.mb]

Hi-Time in Costa Mesa is where I've historically gone to find obscure alcohol. They carry Colombian Aguardiente, which I also found in a place on the edge of MDR recently. Can't think of the name, but great selection and friendly staff there too. Ah Beverage Warehouse. I managed to get Labatt Blue for my ex from Michigan, which is surprisingly hard to find here.

[Medical Physics Guy]

If you like hops, the hottest beer to come out of this neck of the woods in the last 10 years or so is Ale Asylum Hopalicious. I don't know if you can find it out there though, craft beers are amazing in so many places.

[SweatingGin]

I've been on an IPA kick lately, since I got some Founders IPA in cans, and those were very satisfying.

[Antilles]

Love hops (they're related to cannibus, you know), so I love Double/Triple/Imperial IPAs. In my opinion, Stone, Russian River and Lagunitas can do no wrong.

[Sudden]

Try Swami IPA by Port Brewing when you get a chance. Had some fresh cans of that this week. Delicious.

[Antilles]

Ah...love Port Brewing (they're in nearby San Diego, along with their upscale 'cousin' The Lost Abbey). Love Shark Attack, Santa's Little Helper and Old Viscosity. Swami IPA is a new one for me--will have to check it out. Thanks!

[Sudden]

Mr. K's in Placentia is where I picked up my sixer of 16 oz cans, Deliciously fresh. They were three days old when I picked them up. such great hop aroma.

[Sudden]

I don't think New Glarus makes it out of Wisconsin. They have some weird laws on distro out of the state (which makes no sense since Milwaukee is also a major brewery capital).

[PapayaSF]

drinking New Glarus Spotted Cow over here

That makes me think of Clarus the Dogcow. I'm old.

[SweatingGin]

Sam Adams Rebel IPA. Pretty tasty beer, hardly a good example of an IPA though. Disappointed in it.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

But widely available at the local grocery store. I even saw it at 7-11.

[SweatingGin]

Yup! It was the grocery store choice.

Now, Sam's Black Lager, a winter one? I'm all about that.

[Sudden]

A dram of Lagavulin Distiller's Edition while I wait out traffic. When I get out to the burbs, I'll have options at the cigar lounge I go to on Friday nights out there.

[Antilles]

I want to love Scotch since it seems like a cool drink (plus I'm Scottish), but I have a hard time getting past that medicinal iodine taste. However, I've tried a few northern Scotches I kinda liked, but they're pretty expensive and hard to find. So, I'll stick to bourbon for now whenever I want to really tie one on...

[Sudden]

I like the smokey, peated stuff that they make on Islay. Lagavulin, Laphroaig, Ardbeg, and my fav: Kilchoman (newest distillery on the island).

Visiting that island is the highlight of my life to day. (didn't hurt also visiting Cantillon brewery on Belgium on the same trip).

[Antilles]

Hey, I'll take ANY Sam Adams over the mainstream beers (Bud/Miller/Coors) I grew up on. Sam Adams might not be the best, but it's very good and available almost everywhere.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I got a 9 pack sampler from Golden Road Brewery at Costco today. 3 Different kinds of IPA. I'm starting with the 8% first, obviously.

[jesse.in.mb]

Roommate likes Golden Road. It's in Eagle Rock, maybe that would be a good place to meet for a Reason meetup that's slightly more convenient for our northern neighbors. It's not a bad space.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Food, or no food? Karl Strauss Brewery in Carlsbad was pretty damn good. I had 2 appetizers with my dinner. No leftovers.

[jesse.in.mb]

Food. I liked it.

[Antilles]

Hey, I'm in OC and up for it! Weekends would be better since I work M-F. Never been to a Reason event, but it would be nice to hang out with like-minded people for the first time in my life (just so long as I don't mention my disdain for soccer--lol). I'll bring a KEG of an excellent IPA...

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Of course! Email Jesse. He's the social secretary.
And soccer sucks.

[jesse.in.mb]

Hullo, I'll add you to our Reason LA list when you email me.

Also if anyone knows AuH20's email. He wanted inclusion but I don't have his contact info.

[SweatingGin]

Wow, his beard appears to be immortal.

[Medical Physics Guy]

It took him 800 years to grow that beard. He already knows the answers!!!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Rasputin has aged well.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix.....06x423.jpg

[GILMORE]

JESUS FUCKING WHAT!? IT GETS CREEPIER!? ASTEROIDS?

[GILMORE]

Hey buddy, speaking of *too many cells*?.....

[Medical Physics Guy]

Hair cells are dead though. That's how the process works. You spew out all your dead cells through your massive facial hair. The remaining cells regenerate and you stay alive for 1000 years.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'm gonna throw that guy some spare change the next time I step over him on the way to the store.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

If he extends people's lives, how come the Tsar and the Tsar's family are dead?

[Derpetologist]

I lurked during the day, and I concluded that you all have Derp Fever and the only cure is more me.

What should be the subject of Spot the Not! tonight: Hollywood idiots or the Qur'an? Or maybe a little of both?

I'm curious to see if Bo can spot the real verses from the Qur'an.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

If you engage Bo tonight, you're dead to me. He's done enough for the night.

[SweatingGin]

he must have worn himself out by now.

[Sevo]

Last saw, he was still ducking an weaving and trying to claim he really doesn't mean what he's posted.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

"Look, this debate has gone on much longer than I thought, wanted, or should have allowed"
-Bo Cara Esq.

[Sevo]

Now, that's *funny*!

[Sudden]

I should apologize to the commentariat for poking him with the ME topic.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's not your fault. He would have done it with any topic.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Derpa derpa derpa

[Bobarian]

If you want to live past 100, we're going to have to take your yarlbes before you turn 40.

If ya got any yarbles.

[Derpetologist]

I'm drinking the Riesling that comes in a blue bottle and has a picture of a midget in lederhosen.

[Bobarian]

Sure that's not bathroom cleaner?

[Sevo]

Are you sure it's wine?

[Derpetologist]

Well, now I know who the wine slobs are. I bet you types turn your noses up at the joy of Boone's Farm.

[Derpetologist]

*snobs

Perhaps I am the wine slob?

[SweatingGin]

In the before times, there was a poster here named "The Wine Commonsewer". I always did like that name.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's still at it:
http://www.winecommonsewer.com

[Sevo]

"Well, now I know who the wine slobs are. I bet you types turn your noses up at the joy of Boone's Farm."

T-bird was $0.50 cheaper.

[Square]

Until you show up with some Night Train, you are not welcome.

The rest is for pussies.

[SweatingGin]

Did someone say Night Train?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Could she be a bit more specific about the choices she's offering?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"malinger" in death?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Any Two Minutes of Hate tonight?

I need to laugh a little in my mouth.

[SweatingGin]

Don't think so, that's just on wednesdays usually, Friday is their theme show.

This one is quite the downer.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Don't make our mistake: As assisted suicide bill goes to [UK House of] Lords, Dutch watchdog who once backed euthanasia warns UK of 'slippery slope' to mass deaths

"Theo Boer, a European assisted suicide watchdog, said 'don't do it'

"In Netherlands euthanasia has been legal since 2002

"However, in six years the numbers of deaths have doubled

Peers are preparing to debate the Assisted Dying Bill

"Bill has been promoted by Lord Falconer, a Labour former Lord Chancellor"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....lling.html

[Sevo]

"However, in six years the numbers of deaths have doubled"

What claptrap; immediate suspicion.
Does that mean 3 and now 6?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"He said assisted deaths have increased by about 15 per cent every year since 2008 and the number could hit a record 6,000 this year....

"'I used to be a supporter of the Dutch law. But now, with 12 years of experience, I take a very different view.'"

[Sevo]

OK, but claptrap on the first try.

[Sudden]

In theory I fully support right to die legislation. I do think the system in Oregon is humane and appropriate.

However, I've read enough about the Dutch system that concerns me. They're a more largely statist society so that plays a role in it, but they actually have the govt off the mentally infirm and whatnot. Given my own family includes someone who would be put down in such a system, I have my reservations about their administration of assisted deaths.

[Sevo]

..."they actually have the govt off the mentally infirm and whatnot"...

So the choice is not the agent, but an overseer?
I'm with you!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Quebec is about to legalize. I have concerns.

[Sevo]

Why? It's my life to end if I please.

[Square]

All four of my dying grandparents would have loved nothing more than for someone to wander along and put a bullet in their heads to spare them those last few years.

My mother has personally requested on many occasions that I shoot her if she starts showing signs of Alzheimer's.

Our society is completely batshit insane when it comes to the fear of death.

[Sevo]

Yeah, but look two posts up.
The Dutch, it seems, have their own idea concerning who makes the choice.

[Square]

Definitely it should be Stark-style. If your immediate family doesn't have the cajones to pull the trigger, it doesn't need to be done.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Sevo, that's my problem. The government is involved. They "say" it will be under strict guidelines but we know that will be loosened up. What happens to the old man who has no family but doesn't want to die but can't fight for his life? And believe me, you have to fight doctors sometimes. They wanted to pull the plug on my father. We fought tooth and nail, day and night for three months speaking for him.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

That's just one example. The "ethics" behind it are incredibly nuanced.

[Sevo]

Rufus J. Firefly|7.18.14 @ 10:53PM|#
"Sevo, that's my problem. The government is involved."

You just convinced me.
Hell, there were times when some folks woulda sworn I needed, uh, well...

[SweatingGin]

Huh... lethal prescription, just in case. 185 grain pills?

[Bobarian]

Served at 1100 fps?

[Medical Physics Guy]

Two English brothers recently committed a mutual suicide at 80 or so because they were growing ill and didn't want to rot in nursing homes. Respect.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

They're going to use "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance," aren't they?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Darn -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sedgwick

[Derpetologist]

Oh, I get it. Kennedy is wearing black for the death show.

[SweatingGin]

Need a goth show.

[SweatingGin]

"Don't shoot! I'm Che! I'm worth more to you alive than dead!"

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

The bastards tried to come over me last night. I guess they didn't know I was a Marine.

--Private First Class Edward H. Ahrens

During the Battle of Tulagi, Private Ahrens was mortally wounded while single-handedly fighting back a group of Japanese soldiers attempting to infiltrate Allied lines. After his superior officer discovered Ahrens the next morning surrounded by dead Japanese troops, he whispered these words and died.

I don't think you can get more badass than that for your last words.

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 18 June 2014

"Obligatory Ted Kennedy Joke"-Edition

- Kennedy: Our own special Princess of Darkness brings the Black - Yin to Monday's Yang? And its a proper black too. We still think some excessive silver jewelry and black lipstick would really have brought the whole Wicca look to the party; but then she'd also need to be another 100lbs overweight. We remain enthusiastic about the potential for either a Ramones or Mettalica T-shirt appearance. We just know she's got one!

- Matt: They say, "The evil that men do is remembered after their deaths; the good is often buried with them" In Matt's case, its actually BOTH! As I've noted in the past (and highlighted in "2minsH8") = Matt frequently dresses like he's late for his own funeral. We think this combo is slightly more 'enlivened' than the 'Pleasantville'/Matrix/Agent-M getup, but nevertheless = the Black Suit Must Go! HEAD TO THE LIGHT!

- Kmele: We have mentioned in the past the the underlying subtext of why these colors work so well for Kmele. We've also spoken of our deep love for Khaki blazers. This arrangement is superb, and a nice break from the run of plaids he's been rocking of late.

Rock and Roll, Zombies = Neither ever dies

Nyaweh

[Sevo]

Related, but amazingly not PC in the local lefty rag:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/art.....id=premmod
"Picking the perfect casket for your son; priceless"

[Medical Physics Guy]

Whoa! Kennedy pulls a reference to the Necronomicon out of thin air! Impressed!

[Bobarian]

Voltaire FTW

[Derpetologist]

I find it interesting that leftists support Hamas, whose name is short for "Islamic resistance movement".

I thought leftists hate religion?

[Bobarian]

Only the ones that don't hate them.

[GILMORE]

No one told them the islamists hate them too?

[Bobarian]

Leftists understand the ones that hate them; it fits their own world view.

[GILMORE]

Oh, I get it now.

[Sevo]

"I thought leftists hate religion?"

They love victims more; need more gov't!

[Square]

When I started graduate school in the late 90s (in the humanities in CA), all the lefty professors still hated Islam. It was still seen as the quintessentially anti-feminist religion, and that trumped multi-culturalism.

Over the course of 2002-2003, Islam became a victimized "traditional culture," and their anti-feminism and general resemblance to backward fundamentalist Christians became quaint and praiseworthy.

[Sevo]

"their anti-feminism and general resemblance to backward fundamentalist Christians became quaint and praiseworthy."

And yet X-ian fundies don't qualify!

[Square]

In some circles, it is acceptable if you are sufficiently Appalachian. And play bluegrass.

In fact, if you do it with the bluegrass, you might even end up on NPR!

[PapayaSF]

Sad to hear more confirmation that the left is reflexively anti-Western civilization.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Let me die in the old uniform in which I fought my battles for freedom, May God forgive me for putting on another.

--Benedict Arnold

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Too late!

[GILMORE]

Michael Malice, straight - but seems to constantly know everything Joan Collins ever said?

[GILMORE]

And dresses like this? And *looks right*?

[jesse.in.mb]

His girlfriend is in the Merchant Marine, no? I've met some fem male/masc female straight couples that seemed to really work.

But he definitely pings mah *dar.

[GILMORE]

One ping only, Vasily

[jesse.in.mb]

That Joan Collins thing probably makes it two.

[GILMORE]

philistine

I would like to have seen Montana

[jesse.in.mb]

I *got* the reference. But had failed to explicitly agree with the Joan Collins reference.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

6 of 7. Just saying.

[Medical Physics Guy]

"I asked him if the thought of annihilation never gave him any uneasiness. He said not the least; no more than the thought that he had not been, as Lucretius observes. 'Well,' said I, 'Mr Hume, I hope to triumph over you when I meet you in a future state; and remember you are not to pretend that you was joking with all this infidelity.' 'No, no,' said he. 'But I shall have been so long there before you come that it will be nothing new.' In this style of good humour and levity did I conduct the conversation." - Boswell at David Hume's death bed

[SweatingGin]

Notorious G.K.C. is on Independents! Congrats!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Then what am I doing here?

Oh, it was pre-recorded.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Seriously. Was that you?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

No, if you'll pardon the immodesty, I would have done it better.

Sorry, Father.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

In fact, I would have "taken the bull by the horns" and mentioned Hell as well as Heaven.

And taken Kennedy's Orthodox Church teachings as a point of departure. The Orthodox are arguably closer to the Catholics than other religions.

And I would have alluded to the Last Judgment and the final resurrection of the dead:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/.....2.htm#1038

[GILMORE]

Rob Halford says = "Now THATS a gay priest!"

[Derpetologist]

Last words of Islamic warlord Khalid ibn Walid:

"I die as a camel dies. May the eyes of cowards never sleep."

[Medical Physics Guy]

And a camel dies...how?

[Los Doyers]

By being boiled, mashed, and stuck in a stew.

[Sevo]

Cut the feet off first. TOUGH!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

"Don't worry, they usually don't swim backwards."

--Steve Irwin

[GILMORE]

"I believe I can fly..."

[GILMORE]

Last words of Socrates =

"I drank what?"

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I think you misquoted him.

"I drank wha..."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

My father claims while he was in a coma he was on a boat that then overturned and thought he was going to die. But, then a hand came out and it was Jesus who told him, 'I'm not ready to abandon you.'

And then he awoke after three months in a coma.

[Raven Nation]

Hmm, sounds like the last scene of "All is Lost."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Will look at that.

[Brett L]

Hardest God story I ever heard was a guy whose capillaries had clogged and about six inches of his small intestines had necrotized. As he lay there waiting for them to either just cut him open and do exploratory surgery or die (the former happened) he says he prayed to God to let him die if it would take away the pain. He says he heard a voice as clear as day say, "I gave you the life. I gave you the pain. You've got nothing to bargain with."

I'm not religious, but I want a badass God like that if I become so.

[Sevo]

"He says he heard a voice as clear as day"...

And so does every evangelical. If you *haven't* heard voices in your head, you prolly lead a strange life.
I have and I'm sure glad I didn't listen to most of them.

[GILMORE]

Priests learn that stuff sounds less stupid when you make *passionate* tone of voice behind your nonsense.

I grew up going to catholic mass, and God? He spoke fucking LATIN. This sort of feelgood-hogwash is for the Church of Hugs and SoftRock.

[Derpetologist]

"Didja hear they even made a version of the Bible where they took out all the thous and los and verilies? Makes Jesus sound like a god damn disc jockey!"

-vaguely remembered from Landover Baptist parody site

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Come on, Father, don't let the side down!

[SweatingGin]

"How does it feel to be on drugs?" Pretty awesome.

"How does it feel to cheat on your taxes?" Like a small, righteous act!

[Derpetologist]

Interesting religion trivia:

Catholics & protestants teach that hell is separation from god. Eastern Orthodox teaches that heaven and hell are the same place. How you experience it depends on whether you overcame your sinful nature. So, for a sinful person, having to be in the presence of god is painful, but it would be ecstasy for a saved person.

It sort of like what the Sikhs say about heaven and hell. In hell, it's a banquet, but everyone goes hungry because their arms can't bend. In heaven, it's the same thing, but the people help each other put food in each other's mouths.

[Square]

"How you experience it depends on whether you overcame your sinful nature."

I think that's the only rational take. "Separation from" an omnipotent, omniscient God is a logical non-starter, and it's always disappointed me that that particular theological tidbit has survived so long despite its manifest stupidity.

[Suthenboy]

Just that one?

[Square]

No. Sadly. No.

[Derpetologist]

Interesting religion trivia:

Catholics & protestants teach that hell is separation from god. Eastern Orthodox teaches that heaven and hell are the same place. How you experience it depends on whether you overcame your sinful nature. So, for a sinful person, having to be in the presence of god is painful, but it would be ecstasy for a saved person.

It sort of like what the Sikhs say about heaven and hell. In hell, it's a banquet, but everyone goes hungry because their arms can't bend. In heaven, it's the same thing, but the people help each other put food in each other's mouths.

[Derpetologist]

I was wondering when the double post would come. The Derpetologist sometimes rings twice.

[Square]

So do the Sikhs.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

"Do people take dumps in heaven?"

[SweatingGin]

"Every dump is a giant masterpiece! A foot long and girthy! Amazingly satisfying!"

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

With clean margins? I don't know if there's brand name toilet paper in heaven...

[SweatingGin]

"Perfectly clean! You can wipe to check, but you won't need to!"

I meant to put that in, forgot it in the middle of typing it.

[Sevo]

"I don't know if there's brand name toilet paper in heaven..."

The good news and the bad news are the same:
It's Shrillery's campaign posters.

[Sevo]

C'mon, guys, that's funny.

[Los Doyers]

Everyone is already passed out drunk in their chairs, apparently. It is a Friday after all...

[Sevo]

Ah, well, pearls and all that...

[GILMORE]

Dante would have added a layer of hell for TV-Priests

[Rufus J. Firefly]

And race hustlers.

[GILMORE]

What's that again? Hookers in running shoes?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I said reality Housewives of any city.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

"Well, now I must go to meet God and try to explain all those men I killed at Alamein."

--Bernard Law Montgomery

[Sevo]

He could also explain to Clark about the ones he didn't kill in Italy.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I don't think that Fr. Jonathan was suited to this particular audience 🙁

[Notorious G.K.C.]

His usual audience, IMHO, is people "interested in spirituality but skeptical about organized religion" - the TI audience is more of a rationalistic crowd which *first* needs to be convinced that they ought to be interested in spirituality.

And he should have picked up on Kennedy's Orthodox Christian faith - learned of it in his preliminary research - and expanded on it.

Too bad.

[Derpetologist]

"Hurry up, you Hoosier bastard. I could kill 10 men while you're fooling around."

-last words of Carl Panzram, serial killer.

[jesse.in.mb]

Kennedy REALLY emphasized "fabulous" there.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

He died at 37 after eating a pack of bacon everyday.

[GILMORE]

The Nation of Islam is upset about the Bacon

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Their loss is more for us!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I would force people to watch an episode of The Simpsons.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

And Bugs Bunny and The Flintstones.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

From which seasons?

[Bobarian]

I want be seen as active, vibrant... flamboyant?

[Derpetologist]

In a few decades, everyone on Facebook will be dead. It will be a digital graveyard with a billion virtual graves.

[jesse.in.mb]

I keep meaning to set up a death locker for my accounts. I hope to be wiped from the internet after I'm dead. Lord only knows I won't be able to get rid of the taint pics that the NSA has, but I'll do what I can.

[Sevo]

Why do you care?

[jesse.in.mb]

I want to leave the world a little bit better than the way I found it?

Mostly I like tying up loose ends so that other people don't have to.

[Sevo]

Not sure anyone will bother tying up any loose ends I leave; why would they care?

[Derpetologist]

The only embarrassing thing about me on Facebook is that I once voiced approval for the 2007 Transformers movie.

Judging it solely on giant robot fighting, it was very good.

[Sevo]

Derpetologist|7.18.14 @ 10:39PM|#
"The only embarrassing thing about me on Facebook is that I once voiced approval for the 2007 Transformers movie."

I prolly got a lot to be embarrassed about, but it's tough to be embarrassed when you're dead.

[jesse.in.mb]

I don't know that I have a good reason other than not liking loose ends in life.

[jesse.in.mb]

Resomate me.

If not that Neptune Society. I don't give a shit if people show up for my funeral because I'm dead.

[Bobarian]

That's where they turn you into mulch?

I want to be Soylent Green, served with cheese and cold cuts.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The next trend in funerals?

Death.

[GILMORE]

I think Funerals should offer free booze.

At least you can guarantee people will show up.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Isn't that the sole reason Irish people have friends? Because the funerals are fun?

[GILMORE]

Fuck off you cunt!!!
(ponders the truth of his statement)

[Brett L]

"Its the first time I've had a drink wi' him where he let me get a story of me own in."

[Los Doyers]

Feck off ye shites!

[Sevo]

GILMORE|7.18.14 @ 9:55PM|#
"I think Funerals should offer free booze."

I still wouldn't go.
Whoever died was a living being. If I knew them then, I'd prefer remembering them as such.
They died. OK, they're not gonna be very interesting anymore.

[SweatingGin]

How do I want to die? Obviously.

[Pathogen]

How do I want to die? I want to go out with a bang.

[Cytotoxic]

Wow, Bo certainly went Full Botard. Is Bo really Sheldon?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I suspect there are many names.

[Sevo]

Really?
I know there's claims of a lot of socks here, and Tulpa definitely works them.
Who was it last week I busted for "uping" his own post.
So that's two; do you really think there's more? WIH would someone bother?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I just don't think real people would behave like that. It doesn't make sense to me. Assume that Bo is real. If so, he's pissing away his money at law school. Nobody is ever going to listen to what he has to say, even if his right (he's usually not). If he's real, he has to know that he's an asshole and that nobody likes him.

[Sevo]

Pl?ya Manhattan.|7.19.14 @ 12:26AM|#
"I just don't think real people would behave like that. It doesn't make sense to me."

Way back when, a friend mentioned that he was pretty much familiar with the 'stories' of the folks he saw on the streets.
He knew I was an aficionado of the surplus stores that were on Market street at the time; he said 'can you figure out the stories of those folks?' (the denizens of Market Street).
No, I didn't and don't and I'm willing to be amazed that some twit (especially one who claims to be involved in the law trade) would find it enjoyable to piss off people with sophistry.
But, PLEASE, don't let me stop you! Nail that dolt!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I have no expectations here. I'm not looking for a victory, I'm looking for him to go away.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

"I should have asked for a stunt double!"

--Vic Morrow

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Well, judging by all that bullshit at the bottom of the screen, the stock market is back up from yesterday, so that's good news.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

But still not a good year for Malaysian airline stock, I would imagine.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I looked into that. Etrade's platform only trades on NYSE, Nasdaq, London, Hong Kong, Japan, and a few others. No Bursa Malays. I've gotten around that before by trading Australian stocks using ADRs, but I haven't seen a way to do that with Malaysian Airlines.

[Sevo]

I don't think it's moved all that much; they could be extremely well insured.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I mentioned it to Swiss Servator/LTC John yesterday, he didn't say much other than his company had exposure at multiple levels.

They were looking at possible bankruptcy after the last incident...

[Sevo]

"They were looking at possible bankruptcy after the last incident..."

The market isn't hinting at that ( http://quotes.wsj.com/MY/3786 )
I'm sure there's an arbitrage somewhere, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to find it.

[Sevo]

(wish I could)

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

11% drop after shoot down:
http://www.marketwatch.com/sto.....2014-07-18

Problem is, it has already dropped 83% in the last 5 years. It's already close to rock bottom.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I don't know how to day trade on Bursa Malay, though. I wanted to, but there wasn't a clear way. If I had sunk $500k into a short, I would have walked away with $55k in one day...

[Sevo]

Pl?ya Manhattan.|7.19.14 @ 12:22AM|#
..."If I had sunk $500k into a short, I would have walked away with $55k in one day..."
If Id'a............
(bought that Gullwing)
(kept Apl)
(shorted Enron)
You get the point.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

This is totally different. I intended to do it, but couldn't. There was no way the stock was going up yesterday.

Meh. It's not like $55 is going to change my life.

BTW, my Grandma made my Grandpa sell the Gullwing. Brought up at xmas for years.

[Sevo]

"Problem is, it has already dropped 83% in the last 5 years. It's already close to rock bottom.'

Not much arbitrage left there. Maybe one more toke off that cigar, but you don't know who sucked on it last.

[GILMORE]

FRANCE? You want to die FRENCH!?

REVOKE THIS MANS AMERICA-FIRST CARD

[Derpetologist]

There was an English guy who demanded to be stuffed after death and that his body be displayed in various meetings.

Trying to find the link...

[PapayaSF]

You might be thinking of Jeremy Bentham.

[Derpetologist]

Yep, that's him.

[Acosmist]

Bentham, wasn't it?

[GILMORE]

I want to die with ..... DOBBBSS!!!

[SweatingGin]

I'm imagining an action movie that climaxes in you pulling the pin on a grenade and pull Dobbs close to you and it. Or something along those lines. Could be a mine or a bomb of some kind.

[Bobarian]

Or the old classic:

Peacefully, in my sleep, like my Grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like the passengers in his car.

[Sevo]

"Peacefully, in my sleep, like my Grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like the passengers in his car."

Funny!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Okay, we should all be agreed: There is only one right way to have a funeral

[Carl is dead inside]

incorrect

[Carl is dead inside]

*looks at thread*

Bo...

*sigh*

...please start playing Skyrim or something.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Isn't that your thing? What if he tracks you down?

[jesse.in.mb]

Maybe Carl just needs someone to discourse in the most tiny minutiae on the relative merits of various Thuum.

[Carl is dead inside]

I haven't played for a while. I kinda played the shit out of it.

I kinda figure if he applied his pedantry to a huge game like Skyrim he would never stop playing.

Of course it's probably just something that makes him feel smug during conversations rather than a general tendency.

[Los Doyers]

Fus Ro Bo?

[GILMORE]

"Aaiiiiieeeeeeeehh!"
- Last words of Chuck Norris

[Derpetologist]

An old folks home in Germany had a persistent problem of senile patients running away. They solved it by putting up a fake bus stop out front. They wait for a while, get bored, forget why they were there, and then come back in.

Clever, yet sad.

[GILMORE]

You think that's sad? Think of the bus driver!

[Derpetologist]

As Homer said while flipping through a Far Side calendar, "I don't get it."

[GILMORE]

*exactly*

[GILMORE]

Its a lot like the joke about the jewish ladies in the catskills,

one who said, "Isn't the food terrible here!?"
and the other who nodded and said, "and such small portions!"

[Sevo]

'And I'm told the service is good. If we get some, we might find out.'

[Derpetologist]

Sorry, the only reaction I could come up with was "but there is no bus driver..."

I guess that's where a normal person might have laughed.

Here is the sort of thing I enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbar3nsf0_U

[Notorious G.K.C.]

And since Pl?ya will, I understand, be attending a funeral tomorrow, of a young man who died tragically, I will add my prayers for everyone.

Good night.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Be safe one and all indeed.

[Derpetologist]

Mark Twain spoke the wisest words on the subject of death. When asked if he was afraid of it, he said "I was dead for billions of years before I was born and I never suffered the slightest inconvenience."

My other favorite quote on death is "I see no point in tip-toeing through life only in order to arrive safely at death."

[Sevo]

'All in all, I'd rather be in Philly.'

[Sevo]

Jeeze, does the east coast roll up the sidewalks at 11?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They were all up at 6am today. Wait, my math might be off...

[Sevo]

I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at Bo's apologia for the Pals. I'll be generous and presume it was simply contrarian and a wish to spread his sophistry.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It always is. I don't really see what he gets out of it. Low self esteem? The need to argue is pathological. He never walks away from these pissing matches looking good, so there's no logical reason why he keeps doing it.

Either way, it ads no value, and I'm done with it. (Other than mockery).

[Sevo]

It's (AFAIR) the first one I've engaged; the lefty romance and apologia for the Pals pisses me off.
Assuming he dances on that stage again, I'll know to ignore it.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'm not ignoring him. I'm taking the low road.
Think along the lines of "Go fuck your daddy, shitpile", but carefully and meticulously tailored to hurt his feelings and cripple his already fragile ego.

[Sevo]

Pl?ya Manhattan.|7.19.14 @ 12:02AM|#
"I'm not ignoring him. I'm taking the low road."

He deserves every bit for the same reason that turd deserves his servings; a refusal to argue in good faith:
"Dragging an argument out, wearing a perceived opponent down to the point of apathy through tedious hairsplitting and conjecture, and declaring that apathy as an opponents loss in Bo's zero-sum game of mental chess".

What I find interesting is that NONE of the lefties who post here argue in good faith. Turd is to be ignored, Tony forever 'interprets' a post and slays the stawman
Commie kid, road-guy, Lyle and craig are not one bit better; not a one of them is willing to address an honest argument from a libertarian POV.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I think he's got, no shit, issues.

He cannot admit he's wrong, ever. And I don't mean in a casual way. He will argue to the death over absolutely anything.

[Sevo]

Francisco d'Anconia|7.19.14 @ 12:35AM|#
"I think he's got, no shit, issues.'

Not surprising. Turd no longer posts about it, but he's got daddy issues.

[Pathogen]

His game is to get *you* to argue to the death over absolutely anything. He's got nothing better to do...

[Pathogen]

Regardless of Bo's feelings on the IDF, devils advocate? brand sophistry on behalf of the Hamas point of view isn't an even remotely noble hill to die upon. If Hamas received 5 minutes of 'total war' at the hands of the IDF, the Gaza problem would be settled by the survivors the very next day..

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You're right about the Gaza problem. However, Bo would have argued about anything tonight. He just had to stroke his argument boner, and this was the topic at hand.

[Pathogen]

That's the name of his game. I summarized him before as a pointless war of attrition over exactly how many angels could dance on the head of a pin, I stand by that remark. Dragging an argument out, wearing a perceived opponent down to the point of apathy through tedious hairsplitting and conjecture, and declaring that apathy as an opponents loss in Bo's zero-sum game of mental chess... the highlight of his evenings.

[Sevo]

P, I quoted you above without credit.
Folks, it was P who posted that!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I assume you saw the money quote:
Look, this debate has gone on much longer than I thought, wanted, or should have allowed
-Bo Cara Esq.

[Pathogen]

Bo's comment is sooo rich, on so many levels.. I suspect it exceeds the recommended daily allowance of irony, alone. He needs to label that shit according to federal guidelines.

[Fist of Etiquette]

So is it worth staying up to watch the west coast showing? My night ended earlier than expected.

[Sevo]

FoE, is is worth watching a talk show?

[SweatingGin]

It wasn't really a lolzy show. Some good moments. Not really a must-watch, though.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Fine. I suppose I'll go to bed. Maybe I'll jerk off first, but that seems like a lot of effort for little payoff. A lot like < i The Independents.

I'll keep everyone posted.

[jesse.in.mb]

Maybe I'll jerk off first

Now who's vulgar?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

30 seconds is effort?

[Carl is dead inside]

You know, IRC would be a much more logical way to approach TI discussions, and probably nifty in general. Ah well.

[SweatingGin]

I figured half the people here were too old/stodgy for IRC.

Would do IRC, though. I tried to setup a channel during on the squirrelpocalypses, but then couldn't actually post about it, so it didn't matter.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Count me in that first half. I gave up IRC a long time ago, back when all the Swedish "Distros" got shut down.

[Carl is dead inside]

Is there someplace that offers private channels (i.e., restricted participation and no public logs), or would one need to set up his/her own server for that? Because a lot of VPN providers aren't too keen on IRC.

[Carl is dead inside]

oops, VPS, not VPN

[SweatingGin]

Not sure, I haven't kept up on the state of IRC. Freenode is the main one that springs to mind, but that's all Opensource, not really for private things.

and yea, that's the key. Running an IRC server kind of is an invitation.

For public logs, I wouldn't worry too much about it -- not like anyone who was there couldn't post logs.

[Sevo]

WIH is IRC?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Nerd shit. Internet Relay Chat.

[Carl is dead inside]

a chatroom

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I just said that, Nerd shit.

[Carl is dead inside]

It's really not that complicated.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You didn't get my "Distro" reference? Back in the late 90's/Early 2000's, Sweden was way ahead of the US in broadband speed. If you could find a distro in Sweden on IRC, all of the latest movies and TV shows were up for grabs.

[SweatingGin]

this is like, the worst chatroom, ever.

[Sevo]

I got it, and unless I can find it from a plain, ol' Gateway, I'm SOL.
But for that matter, I don't watch the yap-fest anyhow.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Internet Relay Chat.

I haven't taken part in IRC for many years. It might be cool.

[Carl is dead inside]

Now that I think of it, HipChat might be a good alternative. Private, and more palatable "the normals".

I haven't used it, but I hear it's pretty good.

[SweatingGin]

oh, made by Atlassian. I saw them at a conference, and all they talked about was how awesome they are. Not even their products or anything, but just how awesome they were to work for, how they photographed their whiteboards to send to everyone and stuff like that.

Might be interesting, though. Seems neat.

Screen sharing could be a real horror show waiting to happen.

[jesse.in.mb]

Screen sharing could be a real horror show waiting to happen.

SG and I are clearly on the same page.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

There's some sick shit on Jesse's computer.

[jesse.in.mb]

Luckily I won't be subjecting you to the dick pic vault. Because IT'S A VAULT.

Actually the dick pic vault is some of the least offensive stuff on my PC, thanks for contributing those of you who have. Keep up the good work.

[jesse.in.mb]

Carl's just trying to get us all in one place at the same time, then *blam* dick pics!

So when do we do this?

[Carl is dead inside]

It's free for the features we would use, so I'll just set it up and see if there's interest.

If it asks for a name, what should I call it?

[SweatingGin]

Monocle Heavy Industries

[Pathogen]

Better roadz and orphans, LLC

[SweatingGin]

Dicks... everywhere! (SFW)

[Carl is dead inside]

OK, I signed up for a HipChat room. If you are interested in participating, please email me so I can invite you.

[Carl is dead inside]

When you email me, please let me know what you want to be your "full name" (which you can make up) and your handle (no spaces).

[Carl is dead inside]

Oh, and SweatingGin's Monocle Heavy Industries won by virtue of being first. Though I also like Pathogen's suggestion.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

This sounds like a trap. Jesse, you first.

[Jesus H. Christ]

I already sent my email.

Don't you think I would know if someone were trying to trick me?

[Carl is dead inside]

Oh, that's you. OK I'll add you.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

How many penises are in your inbox?

[Jesus H. Christ]

How many should there be?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

At least 1, from multiple angles, and possibly with different haircuts.

[Carl is dead inside]

Jesse, Jesus, and Sweaty G.

[jesse.in.mb]

I said it was a dick pic trap up above.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Is this something we are to log into now? If not now, when?

[Carl is dead inside]

Please do now just for confirmation.

The most likely use is TI chat but I'm probably going to hang out from time-to-time regardless.

[SForza]

"chink in the armor"

Why the racial slur against Chinese people, Bo?

[SForza]

"chink in the armor"

Why the racial slur against Chinese people, Bo?

[SForza]

"chink in the armor"

Why the racial slur against Chinese people, Bo?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Bo used a racial slur against Chinese people?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He doesn't deny it.

[Carl is dead inside]

Playa, get your ass into the fold.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What should my fake name be?

[Carl is dead inside]

I can set it to Pl?ya Manhattan if you want. I will need your email addy though.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Incoming. From my fake name. I don't know you, bro.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Women's rowing team does nude calender for charity

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Bless their hearts.

[Sevo]

"Couple and new baby bumped from Malaysian flight that crashed"
http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/.....t-crashed/

Wonder if they'll write the story about the couple that wasn't bumped?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It'll be a piecemeal story.

[Carl is dead inside]

So, Sevo, are you feeling adventurous?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Bill Maher gets left-wingers to devour each other over Tweet likening Hamas to violently crazy woman that needs to be slapped

[Carl is dead inside]

Serious Man, are you keen to the discussion above?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Depends. What will you guys be talking about?

[jesse.in.mb]

Sadly it will likely not be all dick pics all the time.

[Carl is dead inside]

Well, there was brief mention of pegging...

...not sure though. Personally I've been hoping for a more semi-private context in which to discuss some matters.

And of course, as mentioned above, it will probably make TI discussions easier/more interactive if there is greater uptake.

[Carl is dead inside]

*sufficient uptake, not greater, though of course sufficient would actually be greater

[jesse.in.mb]

Ever so brief mention of pegging.

[Los Doyers]

Don't know why I have cspan on, but they're replaying the US ambassador to the UN's speech about the Malaysia flight. Samantha Power? The fuck kind of last name is that? And why the fuck isn't Comedy Central getting a signal.

[Warrren]

700!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Prove it.

[Warrren]

I'm bending the comment curve!

[Carl is dead inside]

SweatingGin just got started on a bot for our HipChat. He is my new hero.

[Pathogen]

But, is there a LameChat? I like contrast.

[Carl is dead inside]

No, but there is Lobster Girl

[Pathogen]

Is she lame?

[Carl is dead inside]

Yes. Her boobs are too big.

[Derpetologist]

I found a 1.5 hour video where a stuffy British Marxist professor explains the 17 contradictions of capitalism. I'll just post the highlights when I get done with it.

For those who really to test their derp-mettle, here be the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AULJlwoI3TI

He may be the only man on earth more boring and pompous than Chris Hedges, which is an unbelievable feat.

[Warrren]

A dour, humorless Marxoid?

[Pathogen]

That guy was a fucking comedy mastermind, his deadpan delivery was the icing on the cake...

[Carl is dead inside]

Pathogen, are you going to join up? You know you want to...

[Pathogen]

Sure, why not. What do you need me to do?

[Carl is dead inside]

Email me (from an address that you're OK being visible to other people in the room) and tell me what you want your "full name" to be (it can be fake).

[Pathogen]

Email sent, do I need an IRC client?

[Carl is dead inside]

No, you can access it from a browser, or from HipChat's own clients (Mac, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android).

[Derpetologist]

Are there Marxists who are not dour and humorless?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Surely being a proponent of the Marx Brothers would require a sense a humor.

[Pathogen]

Elizabeth Warren is a sidesplitting laff-a-minute..

[Derpetologist]

OK, so apparently the real people of Kazakhstan did not like the Borat movie. Skip to the 3 minute mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfzj9owHRkg

[jesse.in.mb]

He really doesn't like gypsies at the 7 minute mark.

[Derpetologist]

Quotes from the Urban Dictionary entry for "hipster":

"For example, a lot of anti-hipster sentiment evidently comes from culturally-clueless suburban frat boy types who feel that the more sensitive, intelligent, and culturally aware hipster ideal threatens their insecure sense of masculinity. Anti-hipster sentiment often comes from people who simply can't keep up with social change and are envious of those who can."

Uh, sure.....

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Smug alert!

[Pathogen]

Soo.. then it's a battle between two culturally-clueless suburban lifestyles?

[Derpetologist]

Yes: The Most Retarderest Game

[Derpetologist]

Recently discovered hypocrisy: Urban planning lover James Howard Kunstler lives in a secluded country villa.

"The United States is the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, yet its inhabitants are strikingly unhappy. Accordingly, we present to the rest of mankind, on a planet rife with suffering and tragedy, the spectacle of a clown civilization. Sustained on a clown diet rich in sugar and fat, we have developed a clown physiognomy. We dress like clowns. We move about a landscape filled with cartoon buildings in clownmobiles, absorbed in clownish activities. We fill our idle hours enjoying the canned antics of professional clowns... Death, when we acknowledge it, is just another pratfall on the boob tube. Bang! You're dead!"

How I hate this man!

[Derpetologist]

"On top of the insult of destroying the geographic places we call home, the chain stores also destroyed people's place in the order of daily life, including the duties, responsibilities, obligations, and ceremonies that prompt citizens to care for each other."

[Derpetologist]

"On top of the insult of destroying the geographic places we call home, the chain stores also destroyed people's place in the order of daily life, including the duties, responsibilities, obligations, and ceremonies that prompt citizens to care for each other."

[Derpetologist]

"The three of us ate a fine supper of grilled trout with sorrel cream sauce, and red potatoes out of Britney's old garden behind the ruins of the Watling place, and watercress saut?ed in butter for hardly a moment with a dash of vinegar, and cream custard with wild blackberries for dessert."

How. I. hate. this. man.

Was he born wearing a turtleneck?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Night kidz.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yes. But they'll never admit it.