Tonight on The Independents: Unsustainable Debt, Chaotic Immigration, Mideast Turmoil, Fracking Earthquakes, Comcast Harassment, NASA Aliens, California Dissolution, Bitcoin Legalization, Lois Lerner II, and Online Aftershow

Tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) leads off with a conversation about the Congressional Budget Office's latest long-term debt nightmare projection, featuring Party Panelists Jimmy Failla (comedian) and Brian Morgenstern (uh, also a comedian, but a Republican guy, too!). The funnymen will also have words to say about the negative immigration poll numbers for both President Barack Obama and the Republican Party, the Comcast customer service rep from hell, and a NASA official's claim that humans will find aliens within 20 years.

Michael Weiss of The Interpreter will discuss the latest Israel/Hamas rockets and ceasefire proposals, U.S. Geological Survey geophysicist Justin Rubinstein will tell us where we stand on the fracking/earthquakes hypothesis, the Pacific Legal Foundation's Timothy Sandefur will discuss the meaning of California recognizing Bitcoin and the plausibility of the Golden State being split into six pieces, and I will touch on the Federal Election Commission's Lois Lerner problem.

Online aftershow begins on foxbusiness.com/independents just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and please tweet copiously during the show, so that people in the social media will be all, "Hey, I should watch that television program!" And you can click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

[Trouser-Pod]

Yo.

[Raven Nation]

Evenin'. Kind of quiet around these parts.

[jesse.in.mb]

Annyeong hasimnikka?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

That had better be an Arrested Development joke.

[jesse.in.mb]

Ha. You should know better than to think I make cool culture references.

I'm familiar with it, but no I just know a smattering of Korean, chal mot hamnida (but I don't speak it well).

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0011706/
The family adopts a Korean boy and thinks his name is Annyong.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm familiar with that, a Canadian showed me an episode before I went to Korea to explain it. I haven't watched more than an episode though.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A live show? On All-Star Game night? How perfectly un-American.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I know!

The NL went with Wainwright. Thought Kershaw should have been the choice.

[Sudden]

I own both Kershaw and Felix Hernandez in my fantasy beisbol league. As well as Tulo and Miggy. At least I'm good at something.

[Sudden]

Although, incidentally I also own Bryce Harper. Incidentally, I believe Bryce Harper is the only person in the majors with a higher K/BB ratio than Kershaw.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Heh.

[gaijin]

Baseball. All Star game. Tranquilizers.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Tonight on The Independents. Independence!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWA3pQgzld8

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Buttplug, AKA Weigel, totally busted
"Oh, its Daily Caller - a ratfucker site."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Education time. Who the heck is Weigel?

[Raven Nation]

Used to write for Reason. Then went to HuffPo or Slate (can't remember which) where he went full-on lefty. There are a number in the commentariat who believe that PBP is Weigel's sock puppet (I have no opinion on this myself).

[Longtorso, Johnny]

E-mails reveal Post reporter savaging conservatives, rooting for Democrats

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Weigel seems to harbor special contempt for a type of conservative he calls a ratfucker, a favorite phrase of his.

In a thread with the subject line, "ACORN Ratf*cker arrested," Journolisters discussed how James O'Keefe, whose undercover reporting showed officials from activist group ACORN willing to help a fake prostitution ring skirt the law, had been arrested in another, failed operation at Sen. Mary Landrieu's (D-LA) office.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

"He's either going to get a radio talk show or start a prison ministry. That's was successful conservative ratfuckers do for their second acts," Weigel wrote, likely alluding to Nixon aide Charles Colson who converted to Christianity after a stint in prison for obstruction of justice and founded Prison Fellowship.

Republicans? "Ratfucking [Obama] on every bill." Palin? Tried to "ratfuck" a moderate Republican in a contentious primary in New York. Limbaugh? Used "ratfucking tactics" in urging Republican activists to vote for Hillary Clinton in open primaries after Obama had all but beat her for the Democratic nomination.

[Raven Nation]

Not agreeing or disagreeing but thanks for the link.

I sometimes think that PBP speaks to people IRL like he speaks to people here. He thus has no friends and this is the only place he can come to where someone will respond to him. Kind of sad really.

He maintained an epic effort this afternoon trying to exonerate BHO for debt responsibility.

[Cunning Linguist]

I read a few paragraphs. The scandal isn't that he hates conservatives, but rather that he is devoid of any imagination whatsoever.

[MJGreen]

Right wing "memes" begin in "WND/FreeRepublic/talk radio swamps," Weigel wrote, referring to conservative websites World Net Daily and Free Republic. Sometimes, they spread like a virus into liberal sites, a fact that clearly upsets Weigel.

Well that does sound familiar...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Wow. Just.

Wow.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

'The Self-Immolation of David Weigel'
Consider poor, conflicted David Weigel. Hired by the Washington Post, he had the trappings of prestige and therefore he deserved the admiration of the cool young journalists of Washington, D.C. ...

...So David started letting his need for lefty approval express itself on the email list, the Journolist, where the cool kids were being intimate and snarky. But those other kids were not tasked with covering conservatives. While they might have been embarrassed if the mean things they wrote in the email were ever leaked, they didn't have careers founded on their suitability for covering conservatives. The risk poor Dave took was of an entirely different nature. Why, Dave, why? Why did you risk the plum job?...

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Weigel: On Ratfucking
...Weigel seems to harbor special contempt for a type of conservative he calls a ratfucker, a favorite phrase of his....

[Rufus J. Firefly]

You're losing me. What's it got to do with Palin's Buttplug?

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Weigel is Buttplug.

[jesse.in.mb]

Allegedly!

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Buttplug's twitter feed and his comments here are said to track.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

"Are said to track?"

That's what you're saying, or someone else is saying it? I know Mike M has a similar opinion...

[Longtorso, Johnny]

That was from Mike M. I don't follow Weigel on twitter. I see enough of him here.

[Mike M.]

It happens quite a bit. One of the most obvious examples was when Philip Seymour Hoffman died, scumbag posted it on his Twitter feed, and then came here and posted it at Reason about five to ten minutes later. He was obviously a big fan because Hoffman was a raging leftist, like scumbag himself.

[jesse.in.mb]

But does his twitter feed match up with Dark Side of the Moon?

[Sevo]

Did Weigel lie about being familiar with finance the way turd does?
Seems that would be a tell.

[Trouser-Pod]

And, is Weigel a coke-head?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's fat, so probably not. Although it would explain his skin problems.

[Trouser-Pod]

Well, shit-stain alluded to loving the powder some time in his past. I presume he still does. If Wiggy liked it, too, there ya go.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Shit-stain still goes on benders. And then posts here.

[Trouser-Pod]

Agreed!

[Longtorso, Johnny]

David Weigel
....I'm voting for Barack Obama [in 2008], the only remaining candidate whom I trust not to run the country (further) into the ground with stupid and erratic decisions,...

In Which Dave Weigel Forgets He Was a Member of JournoList
...Yeah, I saw him hanging around an Obamacare rally in DC and was kind of shocked by how he looks in person. Granted not everyone can have movie star looks, but he's pretty cocky for someone that's short, overweight, and has a bad complexion. He thinks he's cool but he's just cynical....

[Sevo]

..."the only remaining candidate whom I trust not to run the country (further) into the ground with stupid and erratic decisions,."...

Now THAT'S funny!

[Dave Weigel]

I assume that the commenter was reminded of "ratfucking" by Adam Weinstein's recent piece on the subject.

http://gawker.com/is-ratfuckin.....1601527887

This is probably my first time in a Hit & Run thread in a year or so (someone on Twitter asked if this commenter was actually me). The Weigel-hate club hasn't moved on yet? You realize that there's an outdoors, and you can go to it, right?

[PapayaSF]

Let me guess: the border chaos is caused by our immigration laws being too restrictive, and our country will benefit from an influx of poor, illiterate gang members. And there are contagious diseases that Americans just won't do!

Sorry to keep harping on this, but I really believe this is a fatal flaw in libertarian ideology (importing vast numbers of anti-libertarians into the only country in the world with a somewhat libertarian culture). Why the heck do you suppose Democrats are so much in favor of mass immigration? They are "electing a new people," folks. We know the UK Labor party did it intentionally, and Democrats are doing the same thing. If there were swarms of libertarian-leaning English-speakers crossing the border, Obama would have the Army planting land mines down there. But poor non-whites who need government services are perfect fodder for the Democratic political machine. More examples of capitalism's failure! More victims of racist oppression!

And of course, we have the GOP country club set who just wants cheap labor. This whole mess is far more serious than many people think, and for perhaps the first time, I can't say libertarianism has an answer. Open borders is the problem, not a solution.

[jesse.in.mb]

A less restrictive border doesn't mean less restrictive naturalization laws. I think you should be able to check in at the border with an immunization card and a CBP-approved H&P, get fingerprinted and maybe DNA swabbed and stay as long as you can be gainfully employed and pay taxes.

I'd rather have people check in at the border and benefit more from paying into the system than from taking out of it than have the current scenario where the incentive is to come in illegally and work under the table.

There should be a path to citizenship, but you should fucking earn it, not just sneak over and hope that we'll have a bad immigration policy safety-valve amnesty.

[Sudden]

The issue becomes that they're American born progeny end up qualifying for all manner of public bennies. The advantage to your proposition is that the parent's income will then be verified and discounted from the WIC money for the chilrunz, but given that we're talking remarkably low income jobs, their chilrunz will still qualify for the bennies.

[jesse.in.mb]

True, although I think you'd see more cyclical immigration if crossing the border were that easy and tied to employment. I think (but have no specific evidence) that accruing money here to bring back to Mexico would shore up expectations of rule of law and the value of small business and land holdings back in Mexico. Having a more stable neighbor benefits us hugely.

[Harun]

This sounds like the most reasonable open borders plan I have heard.

Of course, it will never happen.

We all need to realize that this is not just about allowing people in, or a one-time amnesty.

No, this is about a political party that gets voters by being the party that gives you amnesty. They can't just make a universal law that works forever! That removes the key role of the politician in granting you something. For a small price of your vote.

And the NGO activists, too. Are they all going to just go home?

No. So, there will be no logical open borders program or any logical anti-immigration program, either. The Democratic machine likes the status quo.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The 'people' are not monolithic or static. The Democrat voting Irish immigrant's descendant voted for the Reagan Revolution in 80 and 84

[PapayaSF]

True, but beside the point. The current immigration wave is coming countries that are both socially conservative and economically liberal and very friendly to "socialism." They are tossed into an education and welfare system that is very leftist. It's silly to think that anything more than a fraction of them is going to be voting for anything but Democrats anytime soon.

[Sudden]

Living in Southern California, I can attest that I see almost as many immigrant latinos rocking Che Guevara shirts as I do upper middle class white college kids. And obviously that's a lot.

[Cytotoxic]

But Mexico and most of central America is getting friendlier to capitalism, so that's all bullshit.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

So is Russia by your standard.

[PapayaSF]

Indeed. "Friendlier" is weak tea. Tell us about all the libertarian and smaller-government election victories south of the border, Cytotoxic.

[Suellington]

It's lefty all the way down. And I have been down. Demasiado Che. Che demais.

[Cytotoxic]

Well Mexico just decided to open up its hydrocarbon and electricity sector to private investment, Honduras is moving towards ZEDEs, and Peru is making its laws even friendlier to investment. I win.

[Harun]

Heh. Maybe we're sucking up all their socialists!

But its good to see in the year 2014 they are figuring things out that other countries figured out in 1914.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

I can't say libertarianism has an answer.

Sure it does. Or, I should say, it would if America hadn't culturally shifted so far to the left that a (relatively) small influx of people conditioned by socialism can have a telling impact on it's political character.

I think that the magnitude of the effect will be more limited than the doomsayers maintain, and even then it shouldn't be a problem.

It is a problem because the judicial branch of the various state and local governments are only fleetingly in touch with constitutional principles. They have taken their cues from the public at large (see also: Roberts ACA ruling) and are giving the nation what they demanded good and hard.

[Harun]

Very good point. Texas is an example of where the small government culture is so strong, the immigrants seem neutralized or even become inculcated with it.

[Derpistan]

It's a tad odd to think that a flaw in libertarian thinking is that it extends too much liberty to the wrong people. Open borders aren't the problem. The ridiculous wait times and hoops required to become legal are the issue (but the borders are totally open, right?). Much like prostitution and illegal drugs, laws don't take the incentives away, they just make everything worse. People still want to work here and others still want to hire them.

[Sudden]

One can be a libertarian, and subscribe to those ideas as a universal goal, yet still recognize that we exist in a world of sovereign governments and focus our libertarian crusade on our own domestic situation without going abroad. We can recognize that liberty is a natural right and beneficial to the world but still stay out of the business of other nations where those yearnings may be either repressed or wholly absent. That's the basis of a libertarian foreign policy. At the same time, we can recognize that blessings of liberty but limit our guarantee of those blessings to our own domestic citizenry, maintain our sovereign territory, and exercize some measure of control on how many people and what sorts of people we permit into our fold.

[Cytotoxic]

Nope. You can't have a free nation without open borders. Anything else is a violation of the rights of associations of Mericans.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

You can't have a free nation with socialism either. Give me protection from that before doing something that exacerbates it.

[Derpistan]

Ban Socialists. Outlaw their party. Burn their books. Right?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

That's an awfully big strawman you got there, sport. Now put the big boy pants on and re-read what I wrote.

I said I want protection from it, i.e. they can't legally steal my money through progressive taxation or force me to participate in their Ponzi schemes. Once we have that I really don't give a shit what happens on the borders.

[Derpistan]

Think about it a little harder "sport". Spotting your contradictions can take time.

You want government to place limits on liberty in some cases. I gave you other options. Of course, you just mean immigration is magical, so it's just different than other limits on freedom. Just cause, right?

"Once we have that I really don't give a shit what happens on to the freedom to travel/speak/associate"

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Spotting your strawmen doesn't take any time at all. OK, let's play. You have a gun pointed at my head, but I can't take any action against you if you haven't pulled the trigger yet or else I've imposed on your liberties.

What options did you give me? Faster path to legalization? Or were you suggesting more work visas without a guaranteed path to citizenship? Gee, the latter would go a long way to addressing my concerns.

You're fine increasing border freedom regardless of the consequences. I'm fine increasing border freedom once I'm protected from those consequences. See, that wasn't so hard, was it?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

"...happens on to the freedom to travel/speak/associate"

Right. Tell me which of those three actually have any impact on me. Hint: none. Voting on the other hand, does, or are you now claiming that democracy is the highest order of freedom?

[Derpistan]

You still seem to have no idea what I'm talking about. Let's start over.

Close the borders completely (or open them to your satisfaction). Is socialism still a potential issue? Could a domestic surge in that kind of thinking occur? Would your statement, "Give me protection from that", still apply?

If yes, what protections do you propose?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

You seem to finally be getting my point.

Yes, a domestic surge in socialism is also a problem, which is why I used the word 'exacerbate' in my earlier post. Hell, it's going on now slow-mo train wreck style. Yes, the same protections would apply.

Since Santa is coming earlier this year, this is what I would want:

Full repeal of the 16th amendment and a new amendment banning all income tax (and payroll taxes) and instituting a national sales tax similar to the Fair Tax and a requirement that the federal budget be limited to tax receipts except in times of war or national physical disaster or to pay off war or disaster-incurred debts. All tax rates have an automatic sunset to 15% provision every 10 years requiring 2/3 majority renewal to exceed that.

Also, a second amendment granting the ability to opt out of all gov't pension plans including the employer portion.

[Derpistan]

Now we're talking. So, if a domestic surge in socialism can be prevented by your perfectly reasonable protections, why are those not effective against immigrants? Why does immigration require the force of government against liberty (association, travel, whatever) and the domestic counterpart gets this reduction in government force?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

They ARE effective against immigrants. I never said they weren't. Recall my original post:

You can't have a free nation with socialism either. Give me protection from that before doing something that exacerbates it.

"Why does immigration require the force of government against liberty (association, travel, whatever) and the domestic counterpart gets this reduction in government force?"

You are the one who keeps bringing up travel, speech, etc. I never claimed the need to restrict those. What I want is the proper sequencing of liberties. If we're going to open the border to immigration --not work visas but immigration-- then I want those economic protections put in place simultaneously or prior to opening the borders. Otherwise I don't want to kick that football, Lucy.

As to why domestics are different, one reason is that they are already citizens, and I'm not talking about revoking that status. Not granting that status to everyone else is not equivalent to taking it away. A second is that there is a practical difference between a citizen and a non-citizen.

[Derpistan]

I have no problem with the first half, but when you get to "what sorts of people we permit into our fold" you've completely lost me. It's just a way for government to control the economy, pick winners and losers, favor certain groups, blah blah blah. Hey, the US really needs more engineers, lets bump up that quota! I don't think you'd be in favor of any similar domestic policy, right? Why not? What about your reasoning is different when applied to people crossing our borders?

[PapayaSF]

I don't know why it's hard to understand. If a billion Muslims wanted to move to the US and establish Sharia law, would it be "picking winners and losers" to object? (Ages ago I postulated that here, and at least one person argued it would be OK, which just shows you how deluded the ideologically pure can be.)

I don't want to micromanage things in the sense of setting quotas for specific occupations, but I don't think it's bad to say "We have more than enough poor and unemployed people right now," or to prefer English-speakers, or to restrict Muslim immigration when a significant fraction of Muslims are terrorist sympathizers.

[Derpistan]

I still want to know what you would be in favor of domestically. Just forget immigration. If California spawns a couple billion socialist, Muslim, GMO hatin freaks, who suddenly get a hankerin for your home state, what would you do?

What about immigration makes it suddenly ok for government to act in ways that would be so unpalatable if applied to something different?

You don't need immigration for this country to turn into a cesspool of socialism, right?

[Suellington]

You don't indeed.

I remember seeing a poll where 15 to 20 percent of a large number of central americans would move to the US if they were allowed. That seems a bit low in my estimation, but it gives a number. I've spent years in LatAm and love it and its people, but in no way want to open the borders to any person that wants to come. There are certainly ways to improve the present situation, but we already allow more legal immigration than anywhere else in the world, as far as i know.

[Cytotoxic]

You don't get it: neither you nor the government gets to decide whether there's 'enough' poor people in a free society.

[Free Society]

Oh but the government does decide. It needs the poor to have a problem that only it can supposedly solve. The government subsidizes poverty and discourages wealth creation. I don't think those points are even disputable.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I've rarely seen such an homage to liberty with such emphasis on 'limit,' 'exercise some measure of control' and 'sovereign government/territory'...

[PapayaSF]

It's not against the principles of liberty to object to importing people who would take it away. Immigration and border control is a valid and traditional federal function.

[Cytotoxic]

It's not against the principles of liberty to object to importing people who would take it away.

Yes it is. You're a hypocrite.

[Free Society]

Democracy is not compatible with the principles of liberty. Non-existant boarders would be great, but in a democratically oppressed society, open immigration is open access to the coercive political mechanism that actively infringes on people's life, liberty and property.

I'm an anarcho-capitalist myself, I see no legitimacy in the state as we know it, let alone it's policies. But a system where my neighbors can vote on my own life, liberty and property gives me some sort of interest in restricting exactly how easy it is to become one of those neighbors wielding power against me.

[Free Society]

borders*

[NotAnotherSkippy]

I've rarely seen you concerned about any fiscal policy, so I'm not surprised at your blinders. It's all about the SOCONZ.

What you and Cytotoxic can't accept is that we've got two freedoms in conflict here. It's clear which one you chose, but don't pretend that it's a black and white issue.

[PapayaSF]

It's not odd at all. In a pure libertarian state, it might not matter, but that's not our reality. In the US as it is, importing millions of people who (directly or not) empower Democrats and the left will work against libertarian principles. In other words, you are extending liberty to anti-libertarians who will undermine liberty. It may seem paradoxical, but it's not illogical.

It's "Californication" on a national scale. Californians vote for policies that make the state dysfunctional, and then move to "better" states where they vote the same way. You're a fool if you think the flood of poor Mexicans, Hondurans, etc. thinks "I want to live in a country with fewer limits on government power." They think "I want to live in a better country," but don't realize what makes this a better country.

[Cytotoxic]

Yeah, just because something has never ever happened before despite it being predicted by the same anti-immigration assholes for over a century doesn't mean we shouldn't totally burn our freedoms to save them!

[Derpistan]

It's absolutely illogical. The stereotypical Californian might advocate for all sorts of things I hate. What's my answer? Deny them the right to speak? Don't allow them the freedom to travel or move to my state? But shouldn't we do just that? After all, we're extending freedom of travel and speech to these anti-libertarians.

[Cytotoxic]

The 19th century called and it wants its xenophobic talking points back.

Open borders is the problem, not a solution.

For something to be a problem, it would have had to exist at any time point since 1924.

[Sudden]

xenophobic talking points

21st century progs called and they want they're strawmen ad hominems back.

[Cytotoxic]

This is funny since progs are all DEY TERK R JERBS all the time on temporary foreign workers and trade here in Canada.

[Sudden]

I don't think any of us are really worried about DEM TERKINZ R JERBZ. If your job is so fucking easy that a dude with no education, no engrish, and no experience can take it, you failed at life. I recommend seppuku.

In fact, the only immigrants I really want are the ones that could in theory take my job, because those are the same ones that will innovate and create more jobs. I just don't need a permenant uneducated underclass.

[Cytotoxic]

I just don't need a permenant uneducated underclass.

There is no evidence immigration would create or contribute to any such thing.

[PapayaSF]

Ever been to Guatemala or Honduras? And it's not their dentists and software developers who are swarming across our border.

[Cytotoxic]

WTF does Honduras and Guatemala have to do with an immigration-fed permanent underclass?

[Black&Yellow]

"Ever been to Guatemala or Honduras?"

yeah, thanks US foreign policy

[PapayaSF]

"Xenophobia" is just a bullshit insult here. Stop using it. The fact that I don't want this country to become more like Honduras is not a "phobia," it's merely common sense. A few foreigners can assimilate, but the more there are, the harder than process is.

As you may have noticed, many things have changed since 1924, among them government welfare, massive debt, multiculturalism, and the fact that millions of Muslims around the world would love to sneak into the US and kill people.

And I note that you have not addressed my point that Democrats are pushing this for their own purposes. Do you think they are wrong?

[Cytotoxic]

The fact that you think immigration could turn America into Honduras and Muslims are seriously going to sneak into America through the border is both hilarious and pretty much the stock definition of xenophobia.

And I note that you have not addressed my point that Democrats are pushing this for their own purposes. Do you think they are wrong?

They also pushed for gay marriage and I didn't care about 'their own purposes', I cared about the subsequent expansion of liberty.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Right, and if you get a permanent majority that votes for every tax and spend program that Team Blue punts out the door in addition to indexed minimum, sorry, "living" wages and every more free shit, explain how THAT is an expansion of liberty.

BUT, BUT, BUT... TEXAS! is not a response.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"a permanent majority"

Did you know Ronald Reagan's great grandfather was an Irish immigrant? The politics of populations over time are not 'permanent.'

[NotAnotherSkippy]

*Yawn* Oh, pedantry and weak induction are such a compelling arguments. With the exception of Chile, tell me which of the countries south of our border (or Europe for that matter) embrace economic freedom over socialism. Now compare that to the opposite.

Did you know that Ronald Reagan himself was a DEMOCRAT! ZOMG! Everyone is going to change! Show me how fiscal discipline and spending in the country has had a sustained conservative path after say, 1933.

It might be better in the future is an incredibly weak argument.

[Irish]

With the exception of Chile, tell me which of the countries south of our border (or Europe for that matter) embrace economic freedom over socialism.

Costa Rica. Costa Rica's not only relatively free, it's had a pretty solid growth rate for the last decade. 7 of the last 10 years, GDP growth in Costa Rica has been 4.3% or higher.

And both Costa Rica and Chile are vastly freer than America.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

"With the exception of Chile, tell me which of the countries south of our border (or Europe for that matter) embrace economic freedom over socialism. Now compare that to the opposite."

[Calidissident]

This is the same "We must limit freedom to save it" bullshit that conservatives, and even leftists, love to use on pretty much any issue. Drugs, prostitution, economic freedom (we can't let companies do anything without regulation or SLAVERY AND DEATH!), you name it and I've seen this poor excuse for an argument trotted out.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

And yours is the same, oh we'll get around to that bullshit that purists trot out every time.

[Calidissident]

We'll get around to what? Where have I used that phrase, implicitly, or explicitly?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

"We must limit freedom to save it"

[NotAnotherSkippy]

To be more explicit your argument goes, "We have to have pure freedom with no consideration of implementation details or it ALL FALLS APART!!!" essentially implying that even if granting one freedom encroaches upon another it's OK because immigration is so vitally important it trumps economic freedom. Give me protections on the latter and I'll happily clip barbed wire next to you.

[Calidissident]

You're implying that there's a choice between the two, which is a false premise. Furthermore, how is immigration restrictionism not a massive restriction on economic freedom? Or are you ignoring all of the regulations (on Americans as well as foreigners) and costs that accompany such laws?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

#53 on Heritage and #63 on CATO's economic freedom rankings.

[Cytotoxic]

Peru is also doing excellent and Colombia too.

[Harun]

I'm curious, do they also get illegals?

They must.

[PapayaSF]

Obviously, you have never been to a majority-Hispanic neighborhood of San Francisco or any other US city.

And why worry about Muslim immigration? Clearly it's only brought peace and prosperity to France, England, Holland, Sweden, and everywhere else, right?

[Cytotoxic]

Yeah, what's my data compared to your anecdotes and grizzled experience?

Why would I care about Europe? America has no problems with assimilation, period.

[Harun]

Don't you think we are basically at open borders now, when illegal immigrants actively seek out the border patrol to get their permiso?

[Cytotoxic]

Conservative proposals to 'deal' with illegal immigration-border walls, e-verify, internal checkpoints, SB1070, etc- are far more dangerous to our freedoms than the socialist furriner hordes of your imagination.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Right, it's not like the US has gotten any more socialist this century. Oh wait...

[Calidissident]

As we clearly saw this century, a Republican-dominated government means prosperity and a stop to socialism ... oh wait

[Irish]

If only we could have a country run by hardcore conservatives. Truly, it would be a paradise.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

I never claimed it did, but all of the structural problems started with Team Blue: SS, Medicare, Medicaid. I'll give you a tie on the income tax because it was a Republican Congress that got the ball rolling along with the Democrat Wilson.

[Calidissident]

First off, how is that relevant? What matters isn't who started the programs 50-100 years ago, those people are all dead, what matters is what the people given power will do. Both sides continue to add on to the mess when given the opportunity.

Secondly, Democrats didn't singlehandedly implement those programs. A large majority of Republicans voted for the Social Security Act in 1935. A slight majority of House Republicans and over 40% of Republican senators voted for the creation of Medicare and Medicaid.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/tally.html
http://www.ssa.gov/history/tally65.html

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Tell me that either of those happen without FDR and Johnson. That is how it's relevant.

From your own link on Medicare:

House Yea Nay Abs
Democrats 237 48 8
Republicans 70 68 2

Senate
Democrats 57 7 4
Republicans 13 17 2

Clearly it was those goddamned Republicans! I mean, they split 50/50 in the house and 40/60 in the Senate!

Your case is stronger on SS, but why didn't it go through under Hoover with Republican majorities if they were so enamored with it? Why did it only come to pass in the throes of the New Deal?

You can accuse me of shilling for Team Red. I don't really care. But there is absolutely no doubt it my mind that without the complete control of gov't that Team Blue enjoyed at critical times we wouldn't have the welfare state we have today. And there is no better example of the state of things today than BarryCare.

[Calidissident]

You're arguing against a strawman, I wasn't saying it was all the fault of the Republicans, I was saying that the Democrats weren't solely responsible. And once again, who cares who did what in 1935? Your counterfactuals don't change the fact that both sides continue to grow the government (Medicare Part D? NCLB? Sarbanes-Oxley? All major bipartisan expansions of government under Bush). And as long as we're doing counterfactuals, who here would be the least bit surprised if Romney had compromised with Congressional Dems and implemented something similar to Obamacare had he been elected in 2008?

Furthermore, all this supposes that the only thing that matters to libertarians is the welfare state. It's a problem, for sure, but just one part of the mess. Team Red doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in areas like foreign policy, civil and personal liberties, corporate welfare, etc. (And neither does Team Blue for the record)

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Because on most civil liberties society continues its random walk towards more freedom. So ever so slowly libertarians are getting their way civilly. Gay Marriage? Gee, that's fading fast. Abortion really is the law of the land. Even the Drug War is starting to see some cracks.

That is not the general rule economically. Tell me the last time the federal register shrank. Tell me again how free market our health care is. Tell me that the conversation is going the right way on minimum wage. Yeah, economic freedom is a pretty big fucking deal.

Bush was awful. He spent like a Democrat and Republican combined, but show me a modern Democrat that wants to reform the welfare state. Seriously.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

How can youz guyz be engaged in legitimate debate this late?

Why aren't you too drunk for this?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Feeding newborns keeps you up. Makes you grumpier too. I really am libertarian at heart but I confess to voting my pocketbook. Getting fiscally raped for 50% every year tends to focus your priorities... *sigh*

[Calidissident]

What about the NSA? Indefinite detention? Assassination of citizens with no due process? You're cherrypicking a couple issues, one of which libertarians are heavily divided on, to paint a misleading picture as to the state of civil liberties in the US and their recent trend.

"That is not the general rule economically. Tell me the last time the federal register shrank. Tell me again how free market our health care is. Tell me that the conversation is going the right way on minimum wage. Yeah, economic freedom is a pretty big fucking deal."

And as I've said multiple times, that has been true regardless of which party holds power. The federal register exploded under Bush, federal involvement in health care increased significantly, and the minimum wage increased.

[Calidissident]

Regarding your last paragraph, I never said the right course of action was voting Democrat. You're not forced to vote R or D (yet, haha).

[PapayaSF]

Yeah, it's so much better to have more illiterates, gangsters, and contagious diseases than to have a defensible border and ensure employees are citizens.

I don't like internal checkpoints any more than you do, but it's stupid to object to the pain of dentistry when you advocate a diet of sugar and meth. The fact that some solutions are bad or imperfect doesn't mean the original problem isn't a real problem.

[Calidissident]

You seriously need to turn off the Fox News and Dateline NBC, and take a step into the real world. It's not that bad out there. You're probably not gonna get murdered by a roving pack of socialist Mexican Muslim HIV-positive gangbangers.

[Irish]

That just shows what you know. I've been raped by like 33 Hispanic gang members, and I'm sick of libertardians like you denying my oppression.

[jesse.in.mb]

You got paid well for your scene in Latino Gang Bang(ers) 8: Irish Cream. Don't pretend anyone forced you.

[Calidissident]

I like the series title, but would prefer something a little more ... ethnic. Like "Cholos en Gringos"

[jesse.in.mb]

Cholos en Gringos could work, but I feel like it needs an Irish joke.

Churning Irish's butter?

I just don't have good Irish puns.

cremado en irland?s?

[Calidissident]

Oh I was just talking about the series title. I think "Irish Cream" is a fine title for the latest edition. Let's be real, porn companies seem to prefer Spanglish anyways when coming up with these names (for the Latino/a-themed movies, that is).

[NotAnotherSkippy]

The only news I need to tell me just how bad it is comes every April 15th...

[Cytotoxic]

Leave me out of your collectivist fascistic fever dreams.

[Iucundus (ex Damned Fool)]

Abortion Rights Freedom Ride 2014: GROUND ZERO TEXAS

Freedom riders 1960s: risk murder, mob violence, and wrongful arrest to stop wholesale government oppression

Freedom riders 2014: risk people hurting their feelz while they wave signs around in standard protest

This is an insulting 50th anniversary for Freedom Summer.

[Raven Nation]

Agree. It's also sad that people can't celebrate victory. The Civil Rights movement was one of the great shining moments in American history. Instead of celebrating how it fundamentally changed the nation, people have to run around claiming things haven't really changed.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

people have to run around claiming things haven't really changed.

There's no money in victory for the activists.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

"while they wave signs around in standard"

If even that. Most of it will probably be online.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Freedom riding on the information highway!

[Irish]

In case anyone didn't realize, Diane Ravitch has gone fucking insane.

A CNN anchor has been agitating for the end of teacher tenure professions. Ravitch starts off by claiming that ending tenure protections is eliminating teachers' "due process rights," thus proving that Diane Ravitch doesn't know what due process is, and then finishes up with this gem:

She is a good media figure because of her looks, but she doesn't seem to know or understand anything about teaching and why tenure matters ... I know it sounds sexist to say that she is pretty, but that makes her telegenic, even if what she has to say is total nonsense.

That bitch is good looking, therefore her arguments are invalid. Watch as i don't even bother explaining why I think she's wrong, and just claim she's a stupid illogical stupid head with nice boobs.

[Sevo]

..."ending tenure protections is eliminating teachers' "due process rights,"...

It also prevents their free speech! And keeps them from bearing arms! And STUFF!

[Bobarian]

Tenure is the only thing between us and being forced to house British troops

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Apparently because my parents paid my education and that I come from an upper middle-class background I'm wasn't allowed to have an opinion on the stupid 'free-education' protest in Quebec.

That's what my buddy told me. That I don't understand what students with debt go through.

It was the most insulting, illogical, retarded thing to say. I told him as much.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I wasn't.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

You pay taxes for the 'free education,' you've got the best right to a say.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yes. But zeitgeist says no.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The zeitgeist.

Jesus I'm retarded tonight.

[Irish]

Apparently because my parents paid my education and that I come from an upper middle-class background I'm wasn't allowed to have an opinion on the stupid 'free-education' protest in Quebec.

Sort of like how no one should ever have opinions on foreign policy unless they've been in the army.

I've actually heard this argument used.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Of course, despite a background in investments, managing business and credit card debt, car loans, a mortgage, and line of credit are not enough to qualify me to understand how debt works.

[jesse.in.mb]

Have you ever asked someone complaining about how "unfair" student loans or crushing credit card debt are if they can explain simple or compound interest?

It's fun.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Oh Lord. Any type of intetest.

I had to explain the 'magic' of compound interest to some derps. Not pretty. They also can't seem to grasp that interest rates FLUCTUATE on a daily basis thus affecting their investments. But because they didn't understand it was the banks fucking them in the ass.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

short-term interest rates that is.

[jesse.in.mb]

A coworker was saying she was trying to get out of crushing personal debt. I asked her what her strategy was and started ticking them off:

1) Snowball (smallest debts first, gives a sense of accomplishment and closes credit lines)
2) Highest interest first (for obvious reasons)

She stopped me there and asked me to explain "interest" she kept hearing it but didn't know what it meant. Her office mate just started screaming "you gotta be fucking kidding me, who gave you a goddamned credit card!?"

[Rufus J. Firefly]

She better be hot.

[jesse.in.mb]

Pretty enough, not hot. A bit high maintenance and a little too inclined to take selfies and post them to facebook.

She's currently dating someone in a country band.

[Sevo]

"But because they didn't understand it was the banks fucking them in the ass."

'Those bankers don't want to help me! They want to make a profit!'
Uh, yeah, and? Permanent adolescence...

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The relationship between how seriously one chose their major, college , took to their studies, etc and their propensity to say their loans are unfair is interesting too

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Of course. The ones who studied a degree that renders no return are doing most of the 'it's not fair' complaining.

Seems like they want other people who made different decisions to cover their asses.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

That's some of it, but some of that is this slacker entitlement mentality that shuns doing anything hard (like a difficult major or carefully exploring all your options) but wants to still be successful.

[blcartwright]

I had a Twitter conversation yesterday on nationalizing student loans and the guy said "Underlying problem is there are over 50 US colleges that cost over $60k/yr. That's outrageous. Need to make it more affordable" I simply told him "then don't go there, thousands of other schools" Instead he wants the government to force those schools to lower their costs.

[Whahappan?]

I'm sure he doesn't grasp, and would vehemently deny it if it's pointed out, the connection between subsidized student loans and those outrageous tuitions.

[sarcasmic]

You're not allowed to talk about police brutality unless you're in law enforcement.

You're not allowed to talk about government waste if your job is in any way connected to the government.

You're not allowed to talk about entitlements if you are receiving any.

Sorry, but the world is not a court and we're not all judges who must recuse ourselves whenever a subject come along that we have experience with.

[jesse.in.mb]

My student loans were minimal due to a combination merit scholarship and trust fund. I don't tell people where the trust fund came from until they start derping on me about privilege.

Then I point out it's just there because my mom died when I was 9 and my working class extended family had scraped together enough to maintain her life insurance until she passed.

Watching them try to extract themselves from the conversation as quickly as possible delights me to no end.

[sarcasmic]

I've got quite a bit of life insurance. It's not for you. It's for who you leave behind. Hopefully it will never be put to use.

[jesse.in.mb]

It's a worthwhile wager to make if you have dependents and can make a really big difference.

[Sudden]

When my former father in law passed at 55, he had no life insurance. He was primary breadwinner to the point of sole breadwinner (my mother in law widow was a part time catholic preschool teacher). And the entire net worth was highly illiquid (house equity and the remainder was a fucking car business that doesn't sell easily). It didn't help that the lessor rep for the lot was a geriatric late 80s man on the verge of imminent death who didn't understand the concept of a DCF lease buyout and wouldn't let us buyout of the remaining three years of the lease in terms that would be most favorable to the trust he represented. I seriously threatened him on a number of occassions that I would find the trust beneficiaries, explain the situation, and have him prosecuted for breach of fiduciary duty.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Is...is that the sound of a knife being sharpened in the background?

[sarcasmic]

Is...is that the sound of a knife being sharpened in the background?

I actually wondered that when my wife encouraged me to take offers on life insurance.

But she hasn't killed me yet!

[Sudden]

"You don't have a uterus, therefore you can't have an opinion about one."

"You don't have student loan debt, therefore you can't have a justifiable opinion on student loans."

Anytime someone drops that bullshit I ask, "Do you want decisions of whether and where wars are waged left only to career military types?"

[NotAnotherSkippy]

So if you have advanced stage cancer, do you require your doctor to also have cancer?

[BigT]

No penis? Don't talk about rape.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I don't see her making that argument. She's just noting the woman is telegenic but is speaking nonsense. It's dismissive, but not an ad hominen.

And I'm not sure that tenure per se is not related to due process (especially since in the CA case the case seemed to be that teachers could be dismissed, it's just that it was a time and money consuming thing).

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Bo,

You're stretching.

Stretching so much I think I will call you Plastic Man.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I think if she said 'she's very attractive so you know her argument is nonsense' she would have done what people are assuming. As it is, it's like when some conservatives used to say 'that Obama sounds eloquent up there giving speeches, but there's no there there.'

And on the other point, if an extremely time and money consuming process is not a form of due process...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I see what you're saying but I'm not giving her that much credit.

And Obama is vapid.

[Bobarian]

'she's very attractive so you know her argument is nonsense'

She basically said that exact same thing in one of here tweets.

[Acosmist]

Uh, tenure includes the right not to be fired without due process.

[Carl is dead inside]

I would like to point out, as I did in the PM links, that the post is written by Jonathan Fucking Chait.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Call me a sore loser but why are Twins fans cheering Jeter? Don't the Yanks always beat the Twins?

I'd clap politely but that's about it.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Nice double by Jeter, better triple by Trout

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Matheney went with his boy and got zinged.

[Sudden]

Kershaw would've pitched a perfect game. Fucking boss.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

INDEPENDENTS ASSEMBLE!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Sorry I'm tardy. Simultaneous satellite and interwebz failure.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Is this an example of American punctuality?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

It's not my fault.

*pounds hyperdrive*

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Really? A whole satellite failed?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

For me it did. Thunderstorm.

[Irish]

Rolling Stone lists the most dangerous guns in America.

This is not a parody. Rolling Stone actually says the next five items are the most dangerous guns:

1. Pistols
2. Revolvers
3. Rifles
4. Shotguns
5. Derringers

So...that's pretty much all the guns you can legally buy. I love that Rolling Stone made it seem like they were going to tell you specific types of guns, but then they just go with 'all pistols.'

[Hyperion]

I think it's time to list the most retarded magazines in America. I am sure that Rolling Stone can make the top 5.

[Bobarian]

I don't know...

Mother Jones
Cosmo
Newsweak
NewYorker
The Nation
The Republic
Juggs

[Hyperion]

The New Republic has be be numero uno stupido.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

What about sleeve derringers like James Wests or the bad guy on Justified that year? Wouldn't that bump them up?

[Irish]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This is the greatest sentence ever:

Popular among handgun-owners, pistols are defined by their built-in barrel and short stock.

They gave us a definition of what a pistol is. Also, what is a built-in barrel? And a pistol does not have a stock. Unless you've got one of these.

[Bobarian]

It's a VERY short stock.

[PapayaSF]

Media types tend to know nothing of firearms. In early Afghan war coverage, one reporter referred to a "300mm pistol," which would be something from a Tex Avery cartoon.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

I'll never forget Wolf Blitzer talking about the A-10 War-THOG.

[PapayaSF]

Unleash the thogs of war!

[ant1sthenes]

That isn't being ignorant about arms, that's just being a retard.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The last 20% of the PM links were dedicated to this article.

What I learned from it is that Warty is big enough to concealed carry a G20.

[Dave C]

Glock 20 isn't that much bigger than a G17.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's a lot more firepower, though.

For the record, CCWing a G17 is also a bad idea.

[Dave C]

You're probably right about the G17. I've got one, but I couldn't CCW it anyway (live In Canada), but it is a bit big. G19 is probably a better carry gun.

[Sudden]

And that's just concealing it on the pocket to his codpiece.

[The DerpRider]

Speaking of packing...

[Cytotoxic]

Do people still actually read Rolling Stone?

[The Bearded Hobbit]

Hmm, seems like a zip gun, cheaply constructed of substandard materials, would be much higher on that list.

... Hobbit

[Derpistan]

"There's no such this as a minor school shooting. Any incident where students are harmed is an incident too many."

Genius.

[Cdr Lytton]

OT: Just got this in my inbox and didn't want any NW reasonoids left out:

Presented by Powell's Books, An Evening with Lena Dunham in conversations with Carrie Brownstein

Lena Dunham is the creator and star of HBO's hit series Girls, for which she also serves as executive producer, writer, and director. Nominated for seven Emmy Awards and winner of two Golden Globes, Lena has also written and directed two feature-length films. Now, Not That Kind of Girl, Lena's hilarious, poignant, and extremely frank collection of personal essays, confirms her as one of the brightest and most original writers working today.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Did somebody lose a bet? Or are you guys going to heckle?

[Cdr Lytton]

I have... other plans. There's not enough eye. ear. and brain bleach to make up for that night.

On Powell's Books' events mailing list (good selection of author visits (but still no Jesse Walker!!)) so that where it comes from.

[Hyperion]

We have a new troll, it's the newer, dumber, more proglodyte model.

It's name is Flaming ButtLicker, and it hates free markets and libertarian stuff.

[Sevo]

Where has this troll been sighted?

[Hyperion]

Farmers market thread. It has been thoroughly schooled, embarrassed and rendered incomprehensible(IOW, it's become Tony or Shreek, or it passed out drunk from cheap liquor).

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Black.

[Fist of Etiquette]

We're revoking citizenships now? Who's going to pay for that?

[Hyperion]

Well, it's just like these libertarians are just going to let people do what they want to! Who can pay for that? Where can we get the money to not enforce meaningless and draconian laws? I mean, if I decide to smoke pot tonight, how can we pay for that? It's not like preventing people from doing what they want, because that's free!

[Sudden]

Mother Arrested for Letting her Daughter Go To Park Alone

Figured a good free range kids story might be fun. And this one appeared on Slate. Maybe the helicopter parent fad is dying...

[Fist of Etiquette]

Where's the croc?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Steven Segal is actually quite soft spoken.

[Bobarian]

Speaks softly, but carries a big belly?

[gaijin]

Kennedy is, if nothing else, certainly a cunning linguist

[Fist of Etiquette]

THERE'S AN ALL-STAR GAME GOING ON RIGHT NOW?

[Fist of Etiquette]

[click]

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Opposites?

[jesse.in.mb]

HA! Video card driver update and my HDMI works again. Welch on the big screen!

[Bobarian]

Is 'Big Screen Welch' what trips your trigger?

[jesse.in.mb]

No, but I do care about what everyone's wearing when it's not in a half-screen browser window.

Does the one guest's tie match Jimmy's shirt? Are Welch's glasses dark blue and bedazzled with a black jacket?

Where is GILMORE!?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

And that's why I switched to Mac 5 years ago. Drivers! Hahaha!!!

[jesse.in.mb]

You, sir, are an elitist, just like Obama.

[Cytotoxic]

Now you'll never get it to work! BRILLIANT

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I have an HDMI port on my Macbook Pro. I have an HDMI port on the side of my 70" Vizio. I connect the cord, and POOF! Magic. It just works.

[gaijin]

Reagan started it?

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's always the drug war's fault, isn't it, Foster?

[gaijin]

So, negative interest rates on UST bonds for the next 4 decades? Or debt jubilee?

[Fist of Etiquette]

So people vote for people who promise to give them things. The incentives are coming from both sides.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

This is why there are no libertarian Congressmen.

TIWTANLC

[Derpetologist]

It's time for Spot the Not!

Who should I spoof tonight? I was thinking of going with an MSNBC theme. Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, and of course, Keith Olberman.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Obama.

[Irish]

Matthews will be too easy to figure out. I'd say Maddow and Schultz would be funnier.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Maddow.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It absolutely floors me how the left hasn't wised up to Hamas's MO. What's so hard to see?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

There are people burning cars in France and Germany right now because they are angry with the Jews.

I have some lefty friends who wish the US was more like Europe, and they mean every word of it.

[Irish]

A Synagogue in France was put under siege by a rock throwing mob yesterday.

[jesse.in.mb]

Are any of those cars a Citro?n by any chance?

*tentatively reaches for personal lubricant*

[Rufus J. Firefly]

They're mental for thinking this way.

No offense.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Not really friends anymore. More like acquaintances.

I use it as a litmus test. If you are pro-palestinian, there's something wrong with your moral compass.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Here's a good summary of the conflict in the Middle East.

[GILMORE]

Weiss keeps trimming his 'quasi beard' and leaves the neck hair

I hate it.

Although the shirt is an improvement

[jesse.in.mb]

He's got too soft a face to be clean shaven.

[GILMORE]

Maybe you have a point there.

But the neck... no excuse.

[jesse.in.mb]

I think you're being too hard on him, and I have noooooo investment in this with my own neatly trimmed neck beard.

[gaijin]

Does Israel really care about their PR/perception when it comes to Hamas and the Palestinians?

[Cytotoxic]

Good God I hope not. They should only want to be feared, not loved.

[Sevo]

"Does Israel really care about their PR/perception when it comes to Hamas and the Palestinians?"

I think so, and I think H and the Pals have cried wolf entirely too often.
Even a lefty rag like the Chron no longer bothers to get outraged at 'the dead CHILDRUNZ', since it's now common knowledge dead kids are PR fodder for the Pals.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Anti-semitism is still very strong.

ESPECIALLY in Europe.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

See my reply above.

Part of it is the muslim immigration to Europe.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Part of it. But native Europeans still harbor anti-semitic tendencies - for centuries.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

SOMEBODY has to take that fucking territory once and for all so we can all move on with our lives.

[Sudden]

I nominate Sierre Leone.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I can't tell you how little I care.

Fuck both sides.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

PICK A SIDE! PICK ONE!!!!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

No. Both are childish dicks.

[GILMORE]

Speaking of all this same-old-same-old re-run of Israel vs. Palestine
....

Hamas wants to prolong these dust-ups as long as possible and create as many civilian casualties they can because it generates so much international condemnation that it serves as their proxy political representation. Its hackneyed at this point. why this is a new surprise when they do it every 3-5 years is completely the blame of Western news media.

[Sevo]

GILMORE,
I'm seeing the claims of civilians and kid deaths getting less and less play, even among the lefty commenters.
Per above, I think the Pals have cried wolf too often and now fewer are falling for it.
Shame about the kids; sleazy about the Pals.

[GILMORE]

Its a bigger issue in Europe... protests at least.

My point was that Weiss was quite accurate in all of his basic 'facts', but failed to produce the context and the larger narrative of 'why did Hamas reject the cease-fire', etc.

The whole "provoke Israel into disproportionate reactions" game is now more than 20 years old. But it seems like journos are endlessly rediscovering it.

[gaijin]

The Stooges!

[GILMORE]

Which album do you like the best?

I have an opinion, but am interested in what other people think.

[gaijin]

I am partial to The Stooges...1969, not rigth, no fun, be your dog...I had that on vinyl as a kid...I always wanted more bass in the mix but it felt like I had discovered some weird ancient, pre-metal music when I first heard it.

[Derpetologist]

I'll kick things off with a spoof of Obama. Can you spot the Not?

1. There are those who say that the budget must be balanced at any cost. They are mistaken. We must not return to the failed policies of the past. We can make smart choices that cut the deficit and create jobs. And part of that is making sure those who are well-off pay their fair share.

2. The thing about hip-hop today is it's smart, it's insightful. The way they can communicate a complex message in a very short space is remarkable.

3. America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.

[Bobarian]

Imma say 3, because I think I remember the other two.

[gaijin]

#2?

[Irish]

1 is fake.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

2

[Rufus J. Firefly]

2.

[gaijin]

wait, It's a trick! they are all not not!

[Derpetologist]

Folks, I've been doing this for over a week, and this is the first time I've been genuinely disappointed.

Really? Did I fool that many of you?

It was #1.

I'm drunk off my ass and still managed to fool so many of you? Good grief. All I did was glue together a few of Obo's pet phrases.

Maybe I should be a speech writer.

[gaijin]

Irish for the win!

[Irish]

I AM A FUCKING GOD!

You literally just took multiple Obama catch phrases and strung them together into a paragraph. It was obviously fake.

[jesse.in.mb]

Irish, minor deity of penetrative sex!

[Irish]

Minor?

[jesse.in.mb]

You're more than welcome to prove me otherwise.

[Sudden]

Dude, is he good in the sack? I mean, I'm not gay, but for God, well I'd consider it. Imagine the things he could do for me.

[Sudden]

Nevermind. I thought that said I am fucking god.

[Derpetologist]

Well done. Kneel.

[dubs Irish on both shoulders with a freshly-used used plunger]

Arise, SIR Irish, Knight of the Derp Table.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Ewww. He rubbed your shoulders.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

He actually said #2?

Good Lord.

He really is a stiff.

[gaijin]

I know right? That's why I picked that one.

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 15 July 2014

Crisis of Confidence-Edition

- Kennedy: This is why *I* wear white. Because it makes pale whiteys like us look blooming and healthy (if not exactly 'tan'). I've heard rumors that its something of a no-no on Television because it screws up the cameras with the glare or something, but apparently Kennedy is all like: "duh, *your* problem!". We will gladly offer her sunscreen and rub it in wherever she can't reach.

- Matt: He's been doing a better job with the black suit, having avoided the worst shirt-tie pairings for *weeks* now. We still think its time to retire the thing. We like this tie with everything, but prefer the bolder solid-blue on white, which debuted I believe his 1st day back from France.

- Kmele: I regret not having more to say about Kmele's outfit last night - it was splendid. Tonight's pairing of the grey-knit tie with the blue/black plaid is a nice example of Kmele's signature ensemble. It seems like he ranges between the grey and navy knit ties, with a brown one in there somewhere on occasion. We need to pay closer attention to how he makes these things work because we tend to only notice it when he goes all Technicolor and we cry foul.

Te?ekk?r ederim

[Rufus J. Firefly]

He keeps saying 'injecting' and Kennedy OBLIGES.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

He keeps saying 'injecting' and Kennedy OBLIGES injecting her interruptions.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He didn't even flinch at the Unicorn Farts comment.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Look at all those pee lakes.

[gaijin]

I laughed at that...I am ashamed.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I would have screamed 'will I die, will I DIEEEEEEE!"

[Francisco d'Anconia]

BURN!

[jesse.in.mb]

Huh, I seem to get all the ads now.

When did that happen? and why are there ads for textile manufacturing mini-infomercial?

[Derpetologist]

OK, time to kick up a notch. Get your Spice Weasels ready, because here comes Ed "Special Ed" Schultz. Can you spot the Not?

BAM!

1. There is one reason and one reason only why the President's agenda is stuck in the mud: Obstructionism. Republics in Congress have fought tooth and nail, kicking and screaming to thwart Obama's agenda on jobs, healthcare, common-sense gun control and more. It's shameful and I'm calling it out.

2. I do believe that the conservatives in this country continue to fuel racism by their policies that attack minorities in this country and try to keep the working folk down. It emboldens people who are in power to say what they say with absolutely no responsibility whatsoever.

3. It amazes me that people don't love Obama. It amazes me that the conservatives who are seeing the stock market go through the roof in dealing with a President who has pretty much been hands-off on Wall Street, it just amazes me he can't get above 50 percent when it comes to a favorable view of the economy.

[Sudden]

#3. No way a prog would ever allow the perception that Obama is not univerally adored.

[Derpetologist]

Hurry, hurry, hurry! Place your bets, ladies & gents!

[frantically waves pork pie hat and twirls cane while wearing candy cane blazer]

[Irish]

3 is fake.

[Sudden]

If it included invocations of racism, I'd be more inclined to think it real.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

#3

Now make it a Monty Hall Problem and improve my odds...

[Derpetologist]

The answer will be revealed when the DOBZ rears his ugly head.

[Derpetologist]

Irish, you disappoint me. I hereby demote you to 2nd class Knight of the Derp table.

It was #1

Flawless Victory!

[Derpetologist]

OK, time to kick up a notch. Get your Spice Weasels ready, because here comes Ed "Special Ed" Schultz. Can you spot the Not?

BAM!

1. There is one reason and one reason only why the President's agenda is stuck in the mud: Obstructionism. Republics in Congress have fought tooth and nail, kicking and screaming to thwart Obama's agenda on jobs, healthcare, common-sense gun control and more. It's shameful and I'm calling it out.

2. I do believe that the conservatives in this country continue to fuel racism by their policies that attack minorities in this country and try to keep the working folk down. It emboldens people who are in power to say what they say with absolutely no responsibility whatsoever.

3. It amazes me that people don't love Obama. It amazes me that the conservatives who are seeing the stock market go through the roof in dealing with a President who has pretty much been hands-off on Wall Street, it just amazes me he can't get above 50 percent when it comes to a favorable view of the economy.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Wasn't Sevo asking about Viking Cruises?

He should see this commercial.

[jesse.in.mb]

I believe he was. I'm intrigued by it.

[gaijin]

Viking Cruises?

Cruises for Norsemen?

[Bobarian]

It's relatively inexpensive, if you don't mind being chained to the galley

[gaijin]

^nice!

[Sudden]

Viking Cruises are spendy, if only because the ships are necessarily so much smaller in capacity in order to navigate rivers.

In travel news, reconsidering my Transsiberian adventure in light of the 20 dead on derailed train in Moscow today. Well, not really. I think the train will be the least of my worries when there. Somehow I have this belief I'll be arrested for espionage. And I'm oddly ok with that.

[jesse.in.mb]

Huh, I'd be more worried about getting kidnapped and humiliated by that Occupy Pedophilia guy, but our travel styles are probably a bit different.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

If you want to go to Tahiti, Bora Bora, Raiatea, Pitcairn, and Hawaii next Fall, then we'll talk.

[jesse.in.mb]

Did I mention I'm going to Fiji in the spring?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Nope. Where?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Oh, wait. Is this related to the travel agent you are trying to bed?

[jesse.in.mb]

Nah. Fiji Air fair sale. Haven't planned anything else, but have until March to make plans. The travel agent needs to stop pussyfooting around; even the travel perks aren't worth how passive he's been.

[Sevo]

Missed the ad, but yeah. Locking all over Euro sounds sorta interesting. Plus there's no lack of history.

[gaijin]

It's all about ME! They must have hired some millenial

[GILMORE]

I got the same thing once from a phone company when I tried to cancel a land line.

They basically refused. They kept asking me to 'confirm' information like the amount on my *first billing* (10 years earlier)... or other things that i'd have to go and look up and call back. i repeated all my account info, security questions, endless changes of personnel, etc. It took 45 minutes.

I thought it was fucking criminal.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Same thing when I quit Vonage. Every call to customer service went to India. Except for when I tried to quit. Then, the call went to a surly guy in New York.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

They should have call centers in the Philippines. Are those people ever mad?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

We had a local filipino lady who murdered both of her husbands a decade apart. The media dubbed her "the black widow". She never faced charges, though, as she was murdered by her nephew. Nice family.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

And there was Imelda Marcos and he shoes.

I seem to remember that story. Is it possible?

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm going to butcher this, but P.J. O'Rourke retells a Flip joke:

So we find ourselves in hell and the vice president is standing in a vat of oil up to his chin and Ferdinand Marcos is standing in a vat of oil up to only his waist. His vice president complains bitterly "You were worse than me, why am I so much deeper in oil?" To which President Marcos replies "Ah, I'd be much deeper but I'm standing on Imelda's shoulders."

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I don't think the joke said "oil."

[jesse.in.mb]

Ha. Probably not. I did warn that I was going to butcher it.

[Derpetologist]

The evidence is clear: I am better at spoofing progs when I am 4 sheets to the wind. I'm worried about Chris Matthews though. I think I'd have to chug a bottle or two of Bailey's Irish cream to plausibly spoof him.

As it is, I am mere on my second Zombie.

[gaijin]

I'd have to chug a bottle or two of Bailey's Irish cream

Apparently, it is the nectar of the f*cking gods.

[Sudden]

Fucking pagan irish druid gods.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Great. Kmele is a coward.

[GILMORE]

Steven Hawking said that?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yep.

[Sudden]

Nah, he didn't say shit. His computer did.

[GILMORE]

I think William Burroughs had the right idea about what Alien Life would look like = it would be a goddamn *virus*, it wouldn't think, and it would just eat everything.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What did the virus prey on previously?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I have no aftershow.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

You have no penis?

[Bobarian]

So, anti-alien, iron dome kickstarter?

[Sudden]

Post a link. I got five on it.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

They are allowed to. Thanks.

[GILMORE]

This episode of The Independents was brought to you by powerful medications for Toe Fungus.

Which is a real fucking thing. Because they just showed pictures of it.

[jesse.in.mb]

This commercial will make Kmele upset!

Where is the Sarah McLachlan music!? Or s that for children?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Jeez, they really know how to pick the best sad faces. I feel terrible.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

So Jesse, I spent my afternoon having another man touch my dick and fondle my balls using warm lubricant.

Gotta tell ya, I still don't get it, man.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Gay for pay? How much did you get?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Had to get an ultrasound on teh boyz.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You're almost 50, right? Don't you have a colonoscopy coming up soon?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yeah, can't wait for that.

[jesse.in.mb]

ADVICE: Relax. The more you fight it the more miserable it is.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Good to know. Thx.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

He says that to all of his victims.

[jesse.in.mb]

"victims" is such a harsh word...

Although I am rum drunk at this point, so it'd probably be the right word.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Even though I will still make fun of you, it might save your life. What's the point of a military pension if you don't live a long time?

[jesse.in.mb]

Regular checkup or urologist visit?

If the latter, may I ask what for?

If it makes you feel better my visit to a urologist was incredibly unsexy regardless of sketchy eastern european sounding* porn would indicate.

*Do not look this up if you value your sanity.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Ultrasound. Had a pain in the balls that wouldn't go away. Turns out it was just Playa.

Actually, orchitis.

[jesse.in.mb]

Ibuprofen 800s and $25 copay as the cure?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Sulfamethoxazole-TMP and tight underwear for two weeks.

[jesse.in.mb]

They think it's a testicular infection? Did they do a culture or draw blood?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Just the ultrasound.

[jesse.in.mb]

Huh. It seems odd that they'd give you an antibiotic for inflammation unless they suspected you had an infection or wanted you to feel like you got your money's worth because the prescribed medication.

That said, I'm not an MD and while I work with a urologist he mostly does exam and not treatment.

So. many. ED. medical histories.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Meh. Maybe.

They gave me a pamphlet on it and my symptoms match. It calls for Antibiotics. I'm guessing he is treating the most likely scenario based on my symptoms and the pics showing inflammation.

[jesse.in.mb]

An infection is certainly a common enough cause if they've ruled out torsion, but it could be caused by a number of bacterial or viral factors and I'm the curious type who wants to know why my balls are inflamed. Unless it's viral or AB resistant clap (you haven't had sex with un-reputable Europeans or San Franciscans recently have you?) the ABs should clear it up.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The cure is me being less attractive, because I gave him blue balls.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Uh huh.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

YOU SHUT YOUR STUPID MOUTH WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO ME!!!

[blcartwright]

the last time a doctor stuck a finger up my ass it was a young female Indian doc. It was a struggle to not show my approval.

[GILMORE]

MUST.CHANGE.SEGMENT.TITLE.

[GILMORE]

GAH!!! DOBBS

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I've been hearing about the Rolling Stone gun article all-day at work from Twitter and now I finally saw it.

Here is the genius behind that piece.

I'd like to see this kind of open-carry protest in front of her office

[GILMORE]

I just glanced at that.

one of the comments summarized it nicely - "I remember *my* first book report"...

Because that's how it reads. Its below idiot-level.

"This is a gun. Guns are bad. Mommy says men use guns for hunting but i love bambi. Guns make loud noises and make my ears hurt. I like deer too. Thank you"

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

With Derptologist blessing, I'd like to introduce my own version of Spot the Not!: The Dear Prudence Edition

You will have to try to spot the fake letter excerpt.

[jesse.in.mb]

The answer is ALL OF THEM.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yes, they're all fake. YOU DO NOT HAVE HIS BLESSING.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Maybe they all are, but which one is crazy enough that not even Slate will publish them?

I find them pretty entertaining.

[Derpetologist]

I admire your passion, but I cannot bless it.

Did Jay Leno try to upstage Johnny Carson?

You must work, my young Paduwan.

[Bobarian]

Anyone getting any aftershow?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Never.

[jesse.in.mb]

Yes. The quality is the same as the regular show. I'm surprised.

[Derpetologist]

Hold on to your hats, people, we're not done yet. Here comes trouble; by which I mean Rachel Maddow.

1. As you can tell, my Halloween costume this year is once again middle-aged lesbian pundit in cheap jacket. Boo.

2. So once more the Republicans have retreat to their "no girls or gays allowed" tree house. They're like a right-wing version of Little Rascals

3. Sarah Palin is now the guy who hangs out in the high school parking lot showing off his car, five years after he graduated.

[jesse.in.mb]

All believable, but I'm going to go with 3.

[widget]

3 would be the percentage of gay people in the US population that I read in a headline on Drudge this morning. I have no idea whether or not that's near the mark.

I read a more thoughtful blog from The Audacious Epigone too. AE has a conservative slant in his analysis. So it is what it is. One thing he's noticed is that USG has become increasingly stingy on raw data, even though you've payed for it.

[jesse.in.mb]

3 would be the percentage of gay people in the US population that I read in a headline on Drudge this morning. I have no idea whether or not that's near the mark.

Bit of an awkward transition, but I tracked down the drudge report article. Researchers seemed surprised by the low turnout, but the information is gotten by face to face interview. Even in our enlightened age, some people aren't interested in coming out to a random government agent they're talking to.

It should also be noted that it's a survey on self-identification. I've definitely nailed, been nailed by, dated or just cuddled and made out with guys who identified as "straight" with one of my longest relationships being with a "straight" guy who everyone knew was at least equally into dudes and is now married to a woman.

Fun fact, the study was of 33k people, which is about the same number of gay registered libertarians you would expect if homosexuality and libertarianism were distributed evenly through the US population (and assuming a 3.8% gay/lesbian pop).

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I would guess the number to be between 10 and 15%

[jesse.in.mb]

Activity based studies turn out higher rates than identity based studies. I believe a study in Britain several years ago that asked about same-sex activity in the past year or something came out at nearly 15%, and Kinsey pointed at closer to 10 in the US. I don't reach for those numbers generally because I prefer to argue from lowball numbers than argue the minutiae of Kinsey's research methodology or personal morality.

Gay rights activists will always stake out the highest even vaguely supported number they can find and traditional morality types will try to make the lowest possible number fit every scenario. The sun rises, the sun sets.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

As if the numbers are important anyway. Doesn't matter if it's 50% or .3%, people may do as they wish, so long as no one's rights are violated.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Were your rights violated at your ultrasound?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I consented to "man-fondling".

*hangs head*

I'm teh ghey.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I think I will go by activity based studies. If you fuck dudes, you're gay.

[jesse.in.mb]

Is this a one drop rule sort of thing?

If I got a wild hare up my ass* and slept with a broad, would I be straight?

*no Richard Gere, bro.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

No. The one drop rule doesn't work in reverse. Don't blame me, I don't make the rules.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I thought Rich Gear was just into hamsters?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Gerbils. Allegedly. He doesn't deny it.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Did you know they pumped a sperm whale out of Rod Stewart's stomach?

[jesse.in.mb]

Whatevs. Small mammals.

Playa: I have no problem with the idea of dabbling not affecting one's identity regardless of which way it goes, but I also believe a generation or two from now sexual orientation won't be an identity anymore. Think BUGs in college, but with everyone.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

BUGs?

It didn't Google.

[jesse.in.mb]

Bi Until Graduation

[Acosmist]

Kinsey didn't research, but instead used his "studies" to meet dudes to bang. So of course he wildly overestimated.

3% is what the facts say, and that seems plausible, given how dysgenic homosexuality is.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Dos.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

1

[Irish]

Here's my logic:

As you can tell, my Halloween costume this year is once again middle-aged lesbian pundit in cheap jacket. Boo.

This is so ludicrous it has to be real. Which is bizarre because Rachel Maddow isn't even middle aged.

So once more the Republicans have retreat to their "no girls or gays allowed" tree house. They're like a right-wing version of Little Rascals

This is fake. It's genius and I'm proud of you, but it rings false.

Sarah Palin is now the guy who hangs out in the high school parking lot showing off his car, five years after he graduated.

This is hilarious and I applaud Maddow for saying something this awesome. I'm actually kind of angry you didn't get worse quotes from her, since the two I think are real are actually not bad.

[Irish]

Holy fuck, Rachel Maddow's 41 years old. I thought she was younger than that.

I guess she is kind of middle aged.

[Derpetologist]

And Irish redeems himself. It was #2.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You are getting better. I went 5/5 in the beginning. 0/4 since.

[Derpetologist]

[bows at 90?]

Domo arigato

[Rufus J. Firefly]

1.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Admittedly, I just don't listen to progressives all that much.

If I want to hear children babble I can just listen to my daughter ramble on about cats and Barbie dolls or whatever.

Speaking of which, the kid has taken to cooking and baking very much. Now I have to cook with a nine year-old next to me.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Cooking is a bond that I very much enjoy with my 6-year-old. He will eat anything. I got him to eat a raw octopus tentacle, and he said "MMMM, you can really taste the suction cups!!!"

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah. It cuts into the time but hey.

Mine likes seafood a lot. So I've had to teach myself how to cook it. Lot of 'ma, how do you...' phone calls.

She likes crab, lobster, shrimp, salmon, fish...all stuff (except the salmon) I hate and my wife is allergic to.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The thing is she eats what she makes so it's not only a good exercise worth teaching her but it ensures she eats everything we make.

It's pretty cool.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It's an important skill. When everybody else's kids are watching Nickelodeon in the evening, mine are cooking with me.

My 6 year old has an affinity for the nice stuff, though. He asked me if were were going to have prime angus rib-eyes tonight. I fear I have spoiled him.

[jesse.in.mb]

And this is why my theoretical spawn will better survive humanities overthrow by our cephalopod overlords!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Listening to Buck interview Jeter. He called him the 'Captain of Major League Baseball.'

Cheeseville.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

What exactly is Joe Buck's appeal that he is apparently the best Fox Sports has? Is he only employed because of nepotism?

Granted, you grow up listening to Vin Scully and your ears get spoiled, but I find Buck awful.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Vin Scully is simply...divine.

For me it was Dave Van Horn (Expos) and Dick Irvin (Habs).

[Sevo]

Hank Greenwald, Giants:

The '89 earthquake series; after they get back on the air, his broadcast partner says, nervously, 'I think they said it was an 8.9'.
Greenwald: 'Yeah, but the Russian judges gave it a 5.6'.

[Sidd Finch v2.01]

Fox baseball has been awful for awhile. I don't get it. They do other sports very well.

[Derpetologist]

Here's your next frozen moment of a nightmare- Melissa Harris Perry

1. Part of it is, we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents, or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to whole communities.

2. I want to talk today about a controversial word. It's a word that has been with us for years. And like it or not, it's indelibly printed in the pages of American history. A word that was originally intended as a derogatory term, meant to shame and divide and demean. The word was conceived of by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man, to render him inferior and unequal and diminish his accomplishments.

3. Rich people take more risks!? Being poor is what is risky! They face hunger, poverty, crime, violence, prejudice & so much more. There is nothing more risky than being poor in this country. Rich people have safety net after safety net to catch them. Poor people do not, because they have a different skin color.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Three is fake. I only know because I recall her saying 1 and 2.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah. Same thing here. 3.

I happened upon the first two when she uttered them.

Fucking nut case.

[Irish]

Part of it is, we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents, or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to whole communities.

This is a really famous quote. You shouldn't have put it here because everyone will remember it.

I want to talk today about a controversial word. It's a word that has been with us for years. And like it or not, it's indelibly printed in the pages of American history. A word that was originally intended as a derogatory term, meant to shame and divide and demean. The word was conceived of by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man, to render him inferior and unequal and diminish his accomplishments.

This is real because if you'd wanted to make a funny quote, you would have had her end the paragraph by saying the word, and it would have been something ridiculous. Since you didn't use the word, I'm going to assume this is real.

Rich people take more risks!? Being poor is what is risky! They face hunger, poverty, crime, violence, prejudice & so much more. There is nothing more risky than being poor in this country. Rich people have safety net after safety net to catch them. Poor people do not, because they have a different skin color.

I think this is fake. Even Harris-Perry wouldn't claim all poor people are black.

[Derpetologist]

Eh, I decided to go easy this time.

It was #3.

Next up: Chris Matthews. And then the Grand Finale:

KEITH OLBERMANN!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Well I was going to do a version featuring Aaron Sorkin dialogue, but you're really a tough act to follow tonight.

[Derpetologist]

My advice, young man, is to begin drinking heavily.

Glen Beck went from drunk to Mormon, whereas I have been moving steadily in the opposite direction.

[Derpetologist]

Can you feel the thrill going up your leg? It's time for Chris Matthews.

1. I look at Obama as a perfect American. I don't mean politically. We can disagree left and right on him. You can argue about the drones. Argue about the fiscal policy, all that stuff. But as a citizen. The guy went to school, he never broke a law. He did everything right. He raised a wonderful family. He's a good husband, a good father. My God I don't think he's ever gotten a speeding ticket.

2. Whenever I hear him speak, I get this thrill up my leg. Here is an articulate, progressive president who is also African-American. Every word he speaks helps dissolve our racist and hateful past. And he will bring us all together to build a nation we can all be proud of.

3. What are the Tea Partiers really angry about? Health care reform, or the fact that it was an African American President and a woman Speaker of the House who pushed through major change?

[Irish]

2 is fake. You fucked up by using the famous 'thrill up my leg' line but then putting it in a fake paragraph.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

2 - what happened to you, man, it's as if you're not trying!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

3

[Derpetologist]

Eh, I'm getting lazy. It was #2.

Honestly, you try spoofing people this stupid and see how tired you get!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Are you so "tired" it will give you a headache later?

[Derpetologist]

As the British say, I am tired and emotional.

Very much so.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Threatening anti-Jewish mobs lead to calls for limiting public assemblies by jihad-diddy types

http://www.timesofisrael.com/a.....-the-jews/

[Sevo]

Yep, the Euros once again lead the way!
We need to start two world wars to catch up.

[Ken Shultz]

On the trail at Zion, you're mostly gonna meet two hypes of chicks: dykes and eurotrash (mostly French). Believe it or not, it's the French chicks in the hiking bikinis that are more friendly. I started talking to one about politics, and, yeah, she's a self-described socialist, but her ass looks like everything I ever wanted for Christmas. And besides, I've seen plenty of you say, "The French can blow me", or "Fuck the socialists". Well, maybe I'm the only one who's really taking that seriously.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I like vacation Ken better than regular Ken.

[jesse.in.mb]

vacation Ken is full of vim and vigor.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

But...

...cunt.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Funny. Banjos told me to say that, but I forgot.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Oh, and pics or it didn't happen.

[Irish]

On the trail at Zion, you're mostly gonna meet two hypes of chicks: dykes and eurotrash (mostly French).

Good thing Ken didn't call them cunts, or they might have been offended.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Relax. Ken has had a few Utah beers. He's out of control for the second night in a row.

[Irish]

Ken has had a few Utah beers.

Those 3.2% alcohol brews have gone straight to his head!

[Sidd Finch v2.01]

dykes and eurotrash (mostly French). Believe it or not, it's the French chicks in the hiking bikinis that are more friendly.

Is this the first time you've left the house?

[Derpetologist]

OK, let's get this over with. Keith Olbermann.

1. So, besides urinating on the Constitution and the rights and freedoms every American soldier has ever fought to win and protect, the Bush administration has now decided that when its victims have actually served their sentences, doled out under its own medieval, quote, 'justice,' unquote, system, it still might not choose to set them free, thereby giving that Constitution and our country a second pass on the way out.

2. The Tea Party-backed Republicans are] a group of unqualified, unstable individuals who will do what they are told, in exchange for money and power, and march this nation as far backward as they can get, backward to Jim Crow, or backward to the breadlines of the '30s, or backward to hanging union organizers, or backward to the trusts and the robber barons.

3. We are at a crossroads. I fear we are once again in danger of slipping into a solipsistic morass of anti-intellectual parochial conservative jingoism. The kind of thought that America is always right and true and we can therefore do whatever as we wish, because the world is our free-market oyster.

Bonus: Every Friday, he used to read in its entirety, a story by James Thurber. Yes, he really did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLnL8JLkvcc

[Irish]

Bonus: Every Friday, he used to read in its entirety, a story by James Thurber. Yes, he really did this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLnL8JLkvcc

WHY DID THIS HAPPEN.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

3

[Derpetologist]

Yeah, it was #3. So sue me.

Be sure to tune in tomorrow for Reason.com contributor edition. It will feature Sheldon Richman, Steve Chapman, and whoever else is suggested (Weigel?)

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I can't figure this one out, and I dare not roll dice for fear of the theological implications (see last night's discussion), so I'll just go with 2, in the hope that you have a thing for that number.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Blast - the oyster comment seemed so prog-y.

[jesse.in.mb]

Oh come now, we've had far more contentious theological discussions than on the casting of lots.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

3.

Maybe less is more with this game. You could have filled a week's worth of Independents threads with this line-up but you went and flew too close to the sun on wings of derp.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Still have not seen 'Frozen' (should I even bother?) but here is a 'Star Wars' parody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eJeCM60awo

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I was going to ask this very thing.

Is it one of the good Disney movies or one of the bad Disney movies?

Got it on teh DVR.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I've seen it a dozen + times. If anything, you'll get the pop culture references.

[jesse.in.mb]

It's not one of the great ones. It's nice that they're showcasing their vocal talent instead of producing album versions of the songs with pop stars. The Christina Aguilera version of Reflection from Mulan blows goats compared to the Lea Salonga version from the movie.

Shut up, I was in the middle of coming out to my family when this movie came out and it resonated.

*Runs off crying*

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

1998 you say? Ben Affleck also came out around that time with 'Good Will Hunting', 'Armageddon', and 'Shakespeare in Love'.

It's okay to admit he was your real inspiration, Jesse.

[Derpetologist]

MAAAAT DAAAAAMON!

I though GWH was clever- when I was 12.

Upon later viewings- ugh, too much prog derp.

He's a brilliant mathematician AND a tortured, working-class kid, AND a charismatic, with-it young man?

Paging Mary Sue. Mary Sue, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

[jesse.in.mb]

Actually I wasn't planning on telling my family. I was outed by a cousin

[Derpetologist]

A secret is safe with 3 people if 2 of them are dead.

-Chinese proverb

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Anti-nut punch: Virginia man acquitted after being charged with firing at intruding police officers who were storming the wrong address

[State Attorney] Mobley admits Watson did not know police were in his backyard, but prosecuted him anyway for misdemeanor reckless handling of a fire arm.

"You cannot fire indiscriminately through the window," Mobley said.

And a judge agreed. Watson was found guilty. So he appealed the decision, and a second judge declared a mistrial. At that point, Watson chose to have a jury trial.

"This can't be doing your job. You come in my backyard, try to open my door, open my window and flash red laser beams on my chest because you thought I was the burglar, and I thought you were the burglar," Watson said.

The seven-person jury bought that, and found Brandon Watson not guilty, after deliberating only 47 minutes.

"The Commonwealth really didn't have a case. It wasn't reckless, so it didn't' take a lot of discussion," said Danny Barnes, a juror and WAVY-TV 10 employee.

The jury thought Watson showed restraint by only firing one shot.

"There was agreement if there had been more than one bullet hole, had he sprayed the wall with bullets, bang, bang, bang, that would have been reckless," Barnes said.

The jury also essentially agreed the cops were full of shit in their official account of the incident.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Night kidz,