The Independents

Tonight on The Independents: John Tierney, John Bolton, Bryan Suits and K.T. McFarland on Bowe Bergdahl; Plus Coal Regs, NSA Face-Tracking, International Whore Day, Sexy After-show, and a Texas DEA Raid You Will Not Believe


These are not the M16 scars you're looking for. |||

Two weeks ago on this blog, Senior Editor Brian Doherty wrote about a case in Texas that sounds like one of the weirdest and most infuriating abuses of justice you'll see:

In a federal/local raid earlier this month on a "smoke shop" called the Purple Zone in Alpine, Texas, two sisters running the place were arrested: Ilana and Arielle Lipsen.

Arielle insists she was hit in the head with a rifle by a DEA agent in what she characterized as an unprovoked assault. […]

Pictures of Lipsen's head with the alleged gun butt wound were taken and spread on Facebook by Tom Cochran, who runs a screen printing shop whose services the Lipsen sisters used. […]

The document that Ilana Lipsen had to sign to make bond, which I have seen, included this handwritten demand […]:

"will advice media (Kwest9 news) that he [sic] sister, arielle lipsen, was not beaten by agents carrying/using a M16 rifle, and her sister instigated/assaulted agents."

A NewsWest9 report says Lipsen did, as ordered, recant her original story.

The pictures have now led Cochran to suffer a public call for boycott of his business, Big Bend Screen Printing, from the National Border Patrol Council, an AFL-CIO affiliate union for Border Patrol workers. (Local station NewsWest9 has more on that.)

So on tonight's live episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, repeats three hours later) we'll have Tom Cochran on to talk about this crazy series of events.

Party Panel this evening consists of New York Times science writer-slash-friend of Reason John Tierney and former Reagan-administration deputy defense secretary K.T. McFarland, who will talk about the two big pieces of news today: the Environmental Protection Agency's proposed rules mandating carbon reductions, and the confusing and contested prisoner swap of five allegedly Taliban-affiliated Guantanamo Bay prisoners for the controversial Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl. Later in the show the Panel will also discuss the National Security Agency's huge new facial recognition plans.

Bowe Bengdahl is back on the menu in the next segment, with radio host and military veteran Bryan Suits, who is threatening to bust out with some insiderish knowledge about the case. Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton will likely have a thing or two to add on the subject, though first we want to get his reactions to being a pawn in Iranian cyberespionage. And naturally we'll be celebrating International Whores' Day.

Aftershow begins on just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, we'll use your best Tweets during the show, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

NEXT: Groundbreaking Louisiana School Choice Bill Would Rescue Kids From 'F' Schools

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  1. Am I the only one who finds it suspicious how much that guy’s name is like Benghazi?

    1. Whatever you say Dale Gribble.

  2. Know what would be ambitious? To gather TI commenters in one spot. For tea and scones.

    1. Know what would be ambitious? To gather TI commenters in one spot. For tea and scones.

      Worst LAN party EVER.

      Also that’d just make us easy pickins for shadowy entities that hate us.

      1. What? We could play backgammon.

      2. shadowy entities that hate us.

        It’s always seemed that the entities that hate us have been pretty up front and open about out future residence in their reeducation camps. You telling me there are shadowy entities after us now, too? Just great. Like predator type shadowy or illuminati shadowy? I need to prepare.

        1. Like predator type shadowy or illuminati shadowy?

          BOTH! The Rothschilds and Bilderbergs had an advanced, invisible-supersoldier program that was coopted by the shadow one world government.

          *Deftly converts foil-swan leftover wrappings into hat, hands to Dances-with-Troll*

      3. Also that’d just make us easy pickins for shadowy entities that hate us.

        Not to mention the evil oligarchs who wish to steal puppies like some sort of bemonocled Cruella D’Vil

        1. He wasn’t going to skin your puggle.

          And he was planning on returning it, eventually.

  3. Bowe Bengdahl is back on the menu

    I thought we’d rescued that poor man?

  4. I hear there’s a lot of speculation as to whether Bergdahl was a deserter. If the story’s true, have him executed for desertion.

  5. The document that Ilana Lipsen had to sign to make bond, which I have seen, included this handwritten demand […]:

    “will advice media (Kwest9 news) that he [sic] sister, arielle lipsen, was not beaten by agents carrying/using a M16 rifle, and her sister instigated/assaulted agents.”

    A NewsWest9 report says Lipsen did, as ordered, recant her original story.

    You know what Jim Rockford would do if the cops made a request like that?

    1. Take them to the taco stand?

  6. Here’s what < i The Independents should do: Once a week they should do a Balkoesque show solely on the militarization of domestic law enforcement and examples of how destructive and costly that’s become. Also, a segment once a week on puppies licking peanut butter of camera lenses.

    1. With a wide angle lens?

      1. That’s a stupid question.

    2. With a wide angle lens?

      1. That’s a good question.

    3. With a wide angle lens?

    4. With a wide-angle lens!

      1. That’s not a question.

  7. Looking for a sports walkman for running and cycling. I would like one where I could at least have some control on the music I listen to. Any suggestions?

    1. Traveling back to the 1980’s.

      1. Yeah, cassette/radio. The best. Shoulda kept all those Sony’s.

    2. iPod Classic.

      1. Too. Big?

    3. Don’t do it.

      I can’t tell you how often I’ve been in near collisions with people whose headphones drown out my shouts to get their attention as they weave unpredictably down the path in their own little bubble.

      It’s about as smart as putting on welder’s goggles.

      1. I’m jumping back in the armband radio market and discovered it’s slim pickings. Not sure Apple is good for my needs. What the fuck do I need 40 000 songs for? I’m not Rain Man. My brother in law was laughing at me just before telling me to buy tight shorts and a walkman with an antennae when I asked him about Sony.

  8. OT: “X is so common that they even have a word for it.”

    Just heard that “argument” on a public TV show the wife is watching.

    Having a word for something need not mean that it’s common. It could be something totally uncommon that people just like to talk about.

    1. Like coprophilia!

      1. “It’s so common in America that they even have a word for it!”

        1. Exactly! Like priapism!

          1. Priapic coprophilia?

            1. Way to go too far, dude. Sheesh.

              1. I’m sure there’s a sub reddit for that

      2. I bet you’re wearing a coprophagous grin as we speak.

        1. I pretty much always am, jesse.

    2. I agree. Getting poisoned by cheese or milk products isn’t that common, but tyrotoxism is a word that exists.

      1. As always, thank you for making us a little bit more educated.

        1. Mmm…this brie is simply…aaaaack!!!

          1. That was pretty much my wife’s reaction the first time she ate fermented cheese curds…aka cheese.

            1. I have found that Asian cultures and cheese do not mix.

              1. Indeed. Though the Tibetans have some cheezy-type foods.

              2. Paneer?

                1. Asia Asia…not British “Asia”.

                2. I meant East and SE Asia.

                  Just give Blue Stilton to a Japanese citizen some time and watch the reaction.

              3. Very true, but one generation after immigrating here they are scarfing down cheeseburgers and cheesy nachos like mad. (yes, I know, the junk food stuff isn’t really cheese)

                1. A pregnant Korean coworker (in Korea) was scarfing down Kraft Singles one day and I asked her what the fuck she was doing. She said someone had told her eating cheese was good for her baby.

                  I brought some cheddar in and she was completely confused by it.

                  1. That’s ridiculous. Everybody knows you should binge on Velveeta when pregnant.

                    1. I didn’t know Korean for “processed cheese food”

  9. I found a PDF of a journal article discussing the sociological significance of the prosti-protest in 1975. Most of it is academic gobbledegook, but pp. 121-24 discuss one of the sponsors of the protest – a Catholic group seeking to *abolish* prostitution. The group was willing to collaborate with the prostitutes because of their liberation-theology-influenced ideas of nondirective community organizing, blah blah.

    I wonder what the bishop thought about the church getting taken over? The people celebrating this seem a bit vague.…..1_5416.pdf

    1. I wonder what the bishop thought about the church getting taken over?

      Judging by history, a French bishop probably knew each of them by name and price of service.

      1. Judging by history, a French bishop probably knew each of them by name and price of service.

        No alter boys in French Catholic churches?

        1. Or altar boys even.

          1. Hey, Catholics were cheering on the demonstration!

  10. Some pre-show music:

    Echo and the Bunnymen:


    International Whore Day edition:

  12. “arty Panel this evening consists of New York Times science writer-slash-friend of Reason John Tierney…”

    Make sure John is fed his daily blood-allotment BEFORE the show this time. He was so anemic i thought I could see *through* him last time.

  13. International Whore Day?

    Elections are tomorrow.

  14. You could peel that dress off her.

  15. Also, we applaud the repeat appearances by Bryan Suits. He’s smart, to the point, and a credible character. In short = nothing like the rest of The Independents

    (*need to play catch-up on two-mins hate)

  16. When is International Ho Hos Day?

    1. I don’t know, but now I want some.

      1. You have to eat them by biting off either and then peeling off the icing and then unrolling them. That’s how it’s done.

        1. Are you critiquing my Ho Ho eating technique, sir?

          1. I don’t know how you do it. I’m just telling you how you should do it.

            1. Well I will probably never eat one again, but I’ll keep your advice in mind.

              1. WHY DID YOU JUST WASTE MY TIME?

                1. BECAUSE THE NSA PAYS ME TO.

                  I MEAN…WAIT NO.

  17. It’s the Great Interumpkin, Matt Welch!

  18. The pictures have now led Cochran to suffer a public call for boycott of his business, Big Bend Screen Printing, from the National Border Patrol Council, an AFL-CIO affiliate union for Border Patrol workers. (Local station NewsWest9 has more on that.)

    7:12 AM May 20
    0 updown
    Share | Flag
    Do us a favor and take your business and go. The voice of Alpine is not heard in the murmur of those who speak for your sorry business.

    We don’t take kindly to authoritah defiance in our town!

  19. Failed grooming standards? No ties? What’s going on at the White House?

  20. On the plus side, with this swap the White House just beat the trade deadline and left more room under the cap.

  21. Yeah. Been reading those are five nasty motherfuckers.

  22. So for those wondering, the chatter from the trained seals on the left is that we can give Obama a pass on this because it’s not as bad as Reagan and Iran-Contra.

    1. Solid logic. What else is new with those bozos?

  23. 4 minutes before Kennedy interrupted.

  24. Oh FFS, as if every American in Afghanistan didn’t already have a giant “please kill or capture me” sign positioned squarely on their backs before this. Such a tired argument.

  25. OMG. What on Earth is Welch wearing?

    1. He believes in the green light.

      1. “Welch turned out all right at the end; it is what preyed on Welch, what foul dust floated in the wake of his dreams that temporarily closed out my interest in the abortive sorrows and short-winded elations of men.”

    2. Gilmore?

      1. I didn’t realize GILMORE had skin in that pattern.

        1. GILMORE has skin in every pattern, jesse. Do you think he’s some kind of amateur?

          1. Am I surprised that GILMORE is part of the cephalopod master race?


            1. Octopi control Hollywood and Wall Street.

        2. He’s a chameleon. That is, one of the sub-genres of Illuminati shape-shifting lizard people operatives.

      2. 1) I am not an octopus

        2) that’s matt’s “other suit”.

        Matt, to the best of our knowledge wears 2 suits* = the 3 button black one, and this one. We call this one the “formula suit” because he typically wears it with the pink shirt and (this) cyan tie *exclusively*. It appears ~ once a month, maybe more now that its summer.

        Opinions on this suit vary wildly. Some (like me) have said that while *I* would probably not wear it, nor recommend it for others, it actually does ‘positive things’ for Matt compared to …the alternatives.

        I have also noticed that matt has received this same compliment from a number of others. For whatever reason, people dig the Formula Suit on Matt. It works. I think its the subtle sorta-red-hair thing.

        Others find it appalling. I can see both POV. I like it because I hate his other thing, which is ‘dark shirts’/weird ties.

        So, there you go.

        1. oh, missing footnote*:

          I think, and may have evidence, that Matt owns other suiting attire.

          He once* (AFAIK) wore a blue suit (or sportcoat) when interviewing Mike Lee. He looked freaking great. I nearly had an aneurism. He has never worn it since. There has never been any explanation. So, I continue with the regularly scheduled programming of abusing matt’s clothing choices. One day i hope to see a re-appearance. i expect it will be a sign that The Rapture is not far behind.

  26. Seven minutes devoted to the prisoner swap?

  27. I’m genuinely surprised that guy works for the New York Times.

    1. One of the better, credible guests.

    2. Jinx

  28. Tierney is far too rational to work at the NYT.

  29. FULL DISCLOSURE: They’re fracking my property.

  30. Related: Going to war on coal will earn us $90 billion in health and climate change benefits

    In its rundown on the rule, the EPA notes that in 2012, climate and weather disasters ? sure to worsen with climate change ? cost the economy over $100 billion. But “this is not just about disappearing polar bears and melting ice caps,” EPA administrator Gina McCarthy said Monday morning during the rule’s announcement. “This is about protecting our health and protecting our homes.” She notes that, through soot and smog reductions, every dollar invested in the plan would translate into a $7 health benefit.

    “Power plant pollution makes people sick and cuts short lives,” commented Harold P. Wimmer, president of the American Lung Association, in a statement. “We are pleased to see significant health benefits from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s proposed limits on carbon pollution from power plants, which would reduce the burden of air pollution in America, prevent up to 4,000 premature deaths and 100,000 asthma attacks in the first year they are in place, and prevent up to 6,600 premature deaths and 150,000 asthma attacks in 2030.

    1. I always believe government statistical predictions

      1. Just think of them as asthma attacks created or saved.

        1. Bending the smog curve

    2. How is it possible that they make something up out of thin air, point at nothing and claim it is evidence, then make absurd and unverifiable claims like this and people buy it?

      Pure, unadulterated horse shit.

      1. 80 plus years of government schooling.

    3. Leftists are complete and total stone-cold degenerate psychopaths.

      What the fuck do they care though; it’s not their friends and families who are going to get put out of work. I’m sure these fucking assholes are thinking to themselves “let them all go on disability and eat cake.”

  31. Well, you’re not getting any questions when the president decrees something. So yeah, with Congress you can only go up from there.

  32. What? You mean I’m not LinkedIn with John Bolton? Wait a second! His name is not spelled Jon Bolton! Dammit!

    1. He was originally John Snow, but he managed to flay enough people to earn the family name of Bolton.

        1. Michael Bolton gets his tongue cut out and sewed to his ass.

          All of Westeros rejoices.

      1. Don’t you DARE sully House Bolton in that way!

        1. Don’t hate the flayer, hate the game.

          1. Don’t make me introduce you to my knife collection the next time you visit.

            1. A fellow cutlery enthusiast? Do tell?

              1. I don’t have enough money to buy anything I want — just a couple of little pocket knives to help in daily chores.

                1. I see. You need to get a world travelin’ buddy, like I did, to bring you back an authentic Gurkha khukhri.

                1. My body may have had an inappropriate reaction to that.

                  1. My body may have had an inappropriate reaction to that.


                    1. This is a truly awkward position for you, Serious. She keeps threatening to cause you bodily harm, but knives rev her engine.

                      Do you bring her a sharp present next time you see her, or no?

            2. Are they big, fuck off shiny ones?

  33. I have everything I need for an Irish Mule but the copper mug.


    1. That sounds like a good cocktail. I’m having a sazerac.

      1. I’d always made it without bitters. It’s great, but bitters take it up a notch.

        1. Yeah, betters and a slice of lemon rind make a whiskey/ginger ale much better too.

      2. sazerac sounds excellent. But tonight, just some wine.

  34. Boom. Nailed the VA joke.

  35. Boom. Nailed the Gitmo joke.

  36. Yeah, right. Obama is gonna make this guy pay for deserting.

  37. The Independents Attire Report, 2 June 2014

    – Kennedy: In our list of “Favourite Flavours of Kennedy*”, the ‘Shotgun Orange’ garb is near the top of the list. Not only is it the only color specifically banned by most Plasma Display manufacturers out of well-justified fears of its damage-potential, but it sends a hyper-visual / subliminal / subconscious/ ultra-meta-code-lingo-slang message to the viewer = FUCK YOU, I DONT CARE. I love it.

    – Matt: The “Formula Suit” seems to have been given a re-mix here = with A WHITE SHIRT?!? Those following the drama know that I have sacrificed numerous virgins pleading to various deities for Matt to destroy his ubiquitous pink blouse and get straight with some ‘normal’ shades of white, blue. My prayers answered, my feelings are muted = this is, in fact, the one getup where I actually like the Pink better. Go figure. Still = White. Progress! Of sorts.

    – Kmele: As a case study, note Kmele’s narrow blazer lapels vs. those on Matt’s (now-ancient) suit jacket. Narrower has been the trend for the last decade, and you here see the difference in how it wears. Kmele matches them well with his short button-collar. This getup – with the knitted tie – has been our #1 fave ensemble for Kmele and while this isn’t the most exceptional example, its a strong showing.

    Tonight we would like to offer the entire panel a Group Win. Nothing blazing, but everyone looks Sharp. Kudos, you whores.


    1. the knitted tie

      Still, to nitpick…shouldn’t the knitted tie wait until after Labor Day? I always thought of it as a “seasonal” item, like seersucker and nubucks with red soles.

      1. Funny, I don’t know.

        I have never thought so; I’ve thought knitted ties were a sort of quasi-casual/formal look you could do anytime of the year. A way to wear a tie while socializing without looking too ‘overdressed’, or something to wear to work where suits are usually reserved for ‘meetings only’.

        (living in williamsburg, hipsters sometime wear ties out ‘socially’; Skinny cotton things tend to predominate. I think they’re lame)

        But as far as ‘seasonal’, I have no idea. It seems a fairly obscure item to label that way, given that it could work well with either a heavy wool blazer or a lighter linen thing.

        1. *shrugs* Could be regional. I just tend not to see them until fall hits here in New England.

    2. White. Progress!

      Next Democrat Presidential candidates slogan?

    3. Favourite? Are you Canadian? Yuck.

      1. Oh yeah, i forgot to add the appropriate note there. I was going to say, “Whenever Possible, We’re Spelling European. Because.”

  38. Its amazing how bryan suits makes sense, is witty, and doesn’t need to yell at anyone.

    Qualities i sometimes forget people have.

  39. So the girlfriend just quit playing Hangman because apparently I don’t lose enough. She is now bitching to her friend about it while watering the garden we planted yesterday.

    1. The appropriate thing to do is crush her in other games as well.

      1. She just doesn’t know how to play. She kept picking long complicated science words/phrases, but if you know a little Greek and Latin, and have 30 or 40 blank spaces to work with, those are really easy to guess.

        1. Use “rhythm.” No one ever gets that in hangman.

          1. Oh that’s a good one. I played “Fuzzy Navel” for a win.

            1. Next time do N_GGERS with the clue “People That Annoy You”

              1. I have a nagging suspicion what the answer might be.

                1. Next time do N_GGERS with the clue “People That Annoy You”

                  Haha that’s one of the best episodes ever.

                  “Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people.”

                  1. “He told me dad he was…”

  40. He makes labels for their bongs.

    Its a living

  41. Wow. Suderman must have shared his patented The Independents coffee and cocaine cocktail with this guy.

    1. Yes.

  42. If the guy talked faster and went ge-der-ge-der-ge-der in between words he’d do a credible porky pig.

    1. Oh good. I really didn’t want to be that mean, I’m glad I can count on you.

      1. Oh Jesse, I’ll always be that mean.

        Meaner, if possible.

    2. He’d make a good auctioneer.

    3. I couldn’t place it, but yes…that is absolutely it.

  43. Wow this story just keeps getting worse.

  44. Fuck, I hate Illinois. Fortunately I’ll be findinh oit if I hate N Wisconsin tomorrow.

  45. I like this guy.

  46. HOLY SHITE. This guy should train every television guest everywhere on how to get the most out of your airtime.

    1. Ka-ching, Ka-ching, Ka-ching!

  47. What the fuck DEA?

    End the War on Drugs for fuck sakes already.

  48. Free publicity. That’s something you just can’t buy.

  49. Repeated from this morning:

    You know who else got people to raise their extended fingers in a salute?

  50. Isn’t that the boy scout symbol?

  51. Wasn’t she from District 12? What’s the point of the 3-finger salute?

  52. That’s two more fingers than I’m accustomed to seeing people salute with.

  53. Some people shouldn’t be allowed to have children.

    1. Would you like to be a founding member of Snipstarter?

      1. Will there be a female equivalent for this?

        1. “Tubekinker”?

          I feel like ‘trailer’ or ‘park’ should be worked into it, though.

          1. Yeahhh, I would not invest in something with that name. We can definitely do better!


              1. Watching whois to see if that gets registered tonight.

            2. PregNot

        2. What’s wring with snipstarter(dot)com? I want to take a knife to your fallopian tubes as much as I do Serious’ vas deferens.

          It’s like kickstarter, but your friends get together and crowd fund your entirely voluntary sterilization. Women are a bit pricier, but the cost is defrayed across your social group.

          1. Domain is available. Want to make this a startup? I’m thinking a facebook tie-in until facebook says no.

            1. I think it’s a brilliant idea, but I have zero follow through. If someone else wants to take charge, I will help however I can.

              1. I was hoping you would take charge and I would just write code and do one or two meetings with VC until getting bought by facebook or google.

                Kind of tempted to register it and put up a joke site, too. Have to learn facebook’s API.

                “Nominate Invite a friend to Snipstarter!”

                1. It’d basically function identically to kickstarter. People pledge money and if the person accepts it the funding is taken out. There would need to be culturally sensitive propaganda material to nudge people towards it.

                  WASP: you can fuck your wife/mistress anywhere without a condom and not end up with more screaming hellions

                  Latino: your mother is absolutely full of shit and you’ll still be able to get an erection, you just won’t have to deal with more screaming hellions.

                  Asian: SAT prep classes are expensive. One is enough!

                  1. There would need to be culturally sensitive propaganda material to nudge people towards it.

                    WASP: you can fuck your wife/mistress anywhere without a condom and not end up with more screaming hellions

                    Latino: your mother is absolutely full of shit and you’ll still be able to get an erection, you just won’t have to deal with more screaming hellions.

                    Asian: SAT prep classes are expensive. One is enough!

                    Snerked bad. Wine up the nose bad.

          2. You can’t just go cutting things inside of us! We’ve got delicate workings, man.

            1. cauterizing knife, like a lightsaber.

                1. I really don’t even want to sterilize people, just start a socially-unacceptable tech startup with a clever domain name.

                2. I should note, we’re not really going to do the snipping/cauterizing/etc. Just take money, pay out to a doctor (minus a fee).

            2. In 2012 a tubal ligation cost ~$3,200 (cash), and Planned Parenthood currently rates a vasectomy as $350-1,000. Vasectomies are way more cost-effective, but some ladies need snipping.

              1. Can’t you just aim a radiation gun of some kind at their lady parts?

                Isn’t that why you gotta wear a lead apron at the dentists?

                1. Cancer. I don’t want to be liable for that shit. Also, mutant babies.

                  One SnipStarter sees some financial success we’ll begin lobbying the FDA on behalf of RISUG and R&Ding; the shit out of sonication.

                  I want to be the less racist Margaret Sanger of male contraception.

  54. As long as no one refused to make them a cake because of it.

  55. I also use newborn children as fashion accessories.

    1. well, parts of them at least.

  56. “Pot Kettle Black”


  57. I can’t believe I’ve read people think she’s hot.

  58. That woman had the kind of face where you expect her to rip it off and it be a lizard underneath.

    I hate that.

      1. “Why does he look like the night?”

      2. “Ok I will do opposites with Carly”

        “Eww no”

  59. whats wrong with fruit?

  60. “tonguing gnats out of hitler’s bungus”

    I have to remember that line in case I ever meet Kennedy. So I can say, “You’re the only person in the history of TV who has ever said…”

  61. I was hoping to hear a Westboro version of Disney’s ‘Hellfire’ where they struggle to repress their homosexual feelings of lust:

  62. John Bolton, for the record, also sends a very clear sub-textual / visual / meta-code-signal message of “Im not funny, and I want to go to war with Iran”

  63. John Bolton is kind of a Debbie Downer, no?

    1. John Bolton is pissed the Cold War ended. His entire psyche was constructed to fight it. Now that’s its gone he’s like a toreador without a bull. So, he turns every potential threat into an ‘existential one’ and treats it thusly.

  64. Yeah, let’s squeeze a Gitmo debate into the 3 minutes allotted to the segment.

  65. We need more ladies on H&R so I have people to have personal discussions with. Stop mansplaining so much, everyone, maybe we can attract a few more females!

    1. how do you know *I’m* not a woman?!

      (thinks about it)

      yeah, forget it.

    2. Women…on the Internet…talking about stuff?

      It will never happen.

    3. Are there west coast libertarian women?

      1. No.

        Epi slept with them all and now they hate libertarians.

  66. They’re going to sell them to Disney for future cartoon characters.

  67. Government loves their databases.

  68. Thanks for coming. GET OUT.

  69. Hey, where are MY FLOWERS, Serious? (Be very careful in how you answer this…)

      1. Algernon

      2. Good boy! You get a reward!

        1. I’ve already told you what my valentine would be: I will meticulously plot the destruction of an enemy of your choosing in the most psychologically devastating way possible.

          1. Can I also be your valentine? I never seem to be able to catch up on my list…

            There’s nipple in it for your. Sweet sweet hairy man-nipples.

  70. International? BUY AMERICAN!

  71. I will keep this comment to myself.

      1. Yeah, they came on just in time to say goodnight.

  72. So one of the few thought-provoking ‘civic art’ installations in SF is coming down tomorrow.
    It wasn’t put up as a ‘remediation’ for building housing, it was just a guy with access to an empty building and an idea. And he’s not even whining about it coming down:
    “I have been care-taking Defenestration for seventeen years so of course I feel a strong, affectionate relationship with the artwork, and feel the loss,” Goggin said. “However, it has been a good run for a temporary installation.”…..23561101=0

    1. “, it was just a guy with access to an empty building and an idea.”

      What! No committee, no budget from the Municipal Arts Fund!?! PERMITS! ZONING?!

      i can’t believe it lasted for more than a few minutes.

      1. I’m sure the guy needed engineering stamps and permits, but other than that, there were no ‘citizens meetings’, I don’t think a bit of taxpayer money went into it; it just showed up one day to the amusement of me and many others.
        I’m gonna see if any of the stuff will fit in chez Sevo.

  73. I used to hang out with a girl who could be called a ‘sex worker’. She worked in The Vault (a well known S&M club in NYC). She pissed on men. Mostly asian men, according to her. She also stepped on them in high heels and dropped cigarettes on them. I asked if they jerked off when she did that and she was sort of surprised. Apparently not. Or maybe it was verboten. I told her it all seemed sort of silly and she agreed, but then said it was more about people wanting to be part of ‘a play’ or a ‘story’ that really turned them on. I understood that part a little better.

    1. Speaking of NYC, I’ll very likely be there in mid-/late September. Fancy a beer? I Playa can vouch that I’m not overly creepy in person.

      1. Sure, tho i’m out of town until Aug or so. Hit me @ jf(myname)-at-gmail

        1. Will do. I know I’ll be there 09/19-22, but I’ll know if I’m heading out early or staying late to see friends closer to the date.

  74. THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHIT. I’m taking my internet business elsewhere. YouTube or maybe PornTube.

    1. seriously = the aftershow has in many cases been a better ‘debate’ format than the actual broadcast, where they need to stuff everything into 1 minute bits.

      1. I just watched it…for the first time…and it was not all that good.

  75. Holy shit, the live stream cut in just to catch Kennedy signing off.

    You WHORE!

  76. They actually didn’t cut Kennedy off, but that’s the only part that actually aired so…trade off?

  77. Ha. It started just in time for Kennedy’s sign off.

  78. “We did it. Workers did this,” said Kshama Sawant, the socialist City Councilmember “We need to continue to build an even more powerful movement.”

    Yep, every municipality needs a law promoting unemployment!
    “Seattle council passes $15 minimum wage”…..522005.php

    1. “WoRKERS!”

      As if being on the ‘city council’ were a ‘job’ akin to shoveling coal in the plutocrats Bomb-Factories.

      1. As if being on the council were a job at all.

    2. On Derpbook is a meme about how San Francisco proves that a high minimum wage is good for an economy because SF has experienced economic growth.

      No one wants to think about the obscene cost of living in the city or the fact that the growth is almost entirely due to the tech sector the funemployed progs want to destroy.

      1. Yes, explaining to people that economics happens at the margins is always annoying.

        I mean, some people will always have good lives under every economic system. Expert surgeons will always do well, because no matter who’s in charge, they’re going to want good medical care, if only for themselves and their cronies.

        People who make 500,000 a year doing something incredibly difficult and complicated don’t care if their morning coffee costs ten dollars or a standard dinner costs over a hundred. It doesn’t bother them a bit.

        This wage hike will fuck over the real working people.

    3. “So the starting wage is $15 now right?”

      “That’s correct, trainee.”

      “And after 6 months of burger flipping what will I be making?”


      “Well, how about after 1 year?”


      “What? How about after 2?”

      “Well our plan is to have automated your menial labor by that point so probably nothing. Please clock in, while you can.”

      1. Actually, once you change the counter staff to touchscreens, you can probably keep the kitchen guys.

        1. +1 Wawa

          1. Hell yes Wawa. There’s a new one going up very close. Diet Peach Iced Tea for days.

      2. “Well our plan is to have automated your menial labor by that point so probably nothing.”

        But see, this happened ‘way AFTER the M/W hike, so it’s not a result of that.
        You can’t *prove* people lose jobs when they cost too much!

  79. Since we didn’t have an aftershow, I’m just going to link to weird shit on youtube.

    You’re all welcome in advance.

        1. No, thank you.

      1. Wait, this Whitney Houston stuff is weirdly plausible…does this guy have a newsletter?

        1. He had a whole internet forum, if I recall.

  80. I’m linking weird shit from the Chron! So there, HM!
    “FBI: Suspect Ryan Chamberlain arrested in S.F.”
    Guy’s been the subject of a nation-wide man hunt! Must be a real hardened criminal; bank robber, murderer, sayer-of-bad-things-about-Obo, something like that!
    Well, it seems hes accused of having some explosives in his apartment. At least that’s the claim after first claiming he had haz-mats there.…..ed-in-s-f/
    Hey, they didn’t shoot his dog!

      1. OK, you win.

      2. That’s oddly wholesome for how accurate the name is.

        1. gave you my contact info above FYI

  81. “the confusing and contested prisoner swap of five allegedly Taliban-affiliated Guantanamo Bay prisoners”

    “Allegedly”?! WTF!?

    What, are you afraid you’re gonna get sued for defamation by the freaking Taliban?

    1. They’re Taliban-vetted in the negotiations, aren’t they? Why would they demand the release of a non-Taliban?

    2. lulz. The 2 minutes of Lou Dobbs before I turned the TV off indicated two of them were governors of Afghan provinces (for the Taliban).

      1. “Governor” is Afghan for ‘dude who collects fees to let you smuggle dope in his region’

        and those fees go to pay the ~couple thousand guys he keeps as an armed escort.

        just saying. That’s how they roll.

        1. So, sorta like an NYC or Chi-town ward healer?

    3. Damn right, it’s “alleged.” Many, many, many detainees have been released over the last 10 years because there was no reason to hold them.

  82. anyone even watching thsi aftershow?

    1. I would if I could figure out where it is on the dial.

      Is this like on a station that does paid programming when it’s not broadcasting news or something? Like maybe every time I go by it, there’s a professional bass fishing competition on or something?

      It must be up in the nosebleed section somewhere. Somewhere between the Iranian channel and the Japanese game shows.

      1. There is usually a paid-programming commercial somewhere in the show (Manufacturing Marvels! Look at this neat factory footage, and listen to a brief biography of this vendor and get your valve parts from (insert vendor here).

        But it’s just Fox Business. It’s not that weird. They probably don’t go to paid programming until like 11 or so.

      2. I would if I could figure out where it is on the dial.

        It is internet only.

        One thing that is odd is Kennedy billed it as “Its on the internet so anything goes”

        But wait isn’t the main show on friggin cable? Doesn’t anything go there?

        I have a theory that with each new media medium we get closer to real anything goes…and Kennedy will be a 102 year old woman on the Internet and she says the after show has human sheep fucking because it is on the quantum brain tubes and anything goes there.


    OK, there’s a paywall, but someone excerpted the best fucking paragraph ever.

    “I’m at the breaking point,” said Gretchin Gardner, an Austin artist who bought a 1930s bungalow in the Bouldin neighborhood just south of downtown in 1991 and has watched her property tax bill soar to $8500 this year.
    “It’s not because I don’t like paying taxes,” said Gardner, who attended both meetings [of “irate homeowners”]. “I have voted for every park, every library, all the school improvements, for light rail, for anything that will make this city better. But now I can’t afford to live here anymore.”

    Retarded liberals are retarded.

    1. ha ha
      ha haha ha

      That’s gold.

    2. That made me laugh my ass off when I first saw it.

      Amazing. And it never occurs to the moron that if she can’t afford to live there, then less affluent people were doubtlessly priced out long before she was.

      In other words, her policies have been driving poor people out of Austin for years, but the narcissistic idiot didn’t care until it happened to her.

      1. Well to be fair she no doubt believes that “the rich” should be taxed for all the things she voted for. “The rich”, of course, is defined as anyone who makes more money then she did last year.

        Her intentions were very pure.

      2. I always find it hysterical when Salon or Raw Story or the Being Liberal page on Facebook posts some anti-WalMart screed and the people start boasting about how they boycott Wal-Mart because they exploit poor people.

        As if 99% of them would ever go into a store that’s full of dirty poor people regardless of what they paid their workers.

        1. In my area and the stuff i buy Walmart is like 30 to 50% cheaper then other grocery stores.

          The poor shopping at Walmart is like giving them a 30 to 50% raise.

    3. And when we ask them how much should we give? Ooooh they only answer “More! More! More!”

    4. “It’s not because I don’t like paying taxes,” said Gardner,”…

      I which case, stuff a sock in it, lady.

  84. So is Upworthy retarded all the time? Never really paid much attention to it.…..phic?c=bl3

    1. Upworthy is like one giant hive-mind of extra chromosomes.

    2. Yes. I will not click on Upworthy links or links that make a play on Buzzfeed.

      Related webcomic

    3. Mad possible by the AFL-CIO!

  85. HM,
    Based on your comments, “War is a Racket” is on the next book order. I’ll let you know…

    1. Cool. The whole Business Plot thing has always fascinated me in an alternate history sort of way.

  86. Pro-tip: Be very careful about which Mexican food joints you order shrimp from. I’ve been shitting pain and frustration out for the past two hours.

    For some reason I thought I should share that with all of you.

    1. Weren’t you puking korean pork and alcohol a week or so ago? Holy crap, dude. Show a little restraint.

      Wait, we’re libertarians. Everything to excess!

      1. I have a love-hate relationship with ethnic food.

        That and the chef last night might’ve been a kings fan and having seen me in my blackhawks shirt decided to compound my agony.

        1. As I get older, I just can’t tolerate spicy food like I used to. If I eat sausage hotlinks, it’s like shitting lava. Total agony.

        2. *meticulously writes “Things Sudden Brought on Himself” on file folder, places this in it, puts on shelf*

  87. Question for any manly-man libertarians who know how to build stuff:

    I’m getting a new washer and dryer soon (front load for energy efficiency) and am concerned about the noise and vibration throughout the house, especially since I have a baby coming soon.

    What is the best way to isolate/mitigate the sound and vibrations? False floor/stand filled with sand? Rubber sheeting under or over the plywood? Build a cabinet around the back and sides of it and foam seal the corners?

    P.S. Please assume I know nothing and keep it simple. Pretend you’re explaining to your wife.

    1. Noise canceling appliance containers are among the things I do not know how to build sadly.

      There are times that renting sucks. But every time I hear of someone’s home improvement projects, I am glad that there is a professional maintenance staff in my building.

      1. Last week:
        Tuesday: Broken drain pipe over garage, leaked for 2 days until drywall ceiling caved. Still running a blower to dry out the ceiling so I can patch and paint.

        Wednesday: Broken hot water heater. No plumber available ’till Friday. Heater was beyond repair, and not installed to code. Had to buy new one and install new flue gas vent to comply with code and avoid slowly poisoning my family with CO. Upgraded to a fancier model so I can include the repairs in the cost basis if/when I sell the house. (Always slightly upgrade)

        Not fun to be raped by 2 different plumbers in the same week.

        1. Not fun to be raped by 2 different plumbers in the same week

          Oh ya? Try losing game 7 on a flukey OT ricochet own goal. Especially when the first opponent’s goal was a clearly missed offside.

          1. Wait until you hear how much the pleasure of that raping set him back. You’ll be thankful you’re shitting pain instead.

            1. I suppose that may be a fair assessment. Losing sucks, but at least its free.

              1. No, I’m being serious. Ask him, the schadenfreude may make you feel better.

    2. Pl?ya Manhattan.|6.2.14 @ 11:42PM|#
      “I’m getting a new washer and dryer soon (front load for energy efficiency) and am concerned about the noise and vibration throughout the house, especially since I have a baby coming soon.”

      Modern ones are pretty damn quiet and stable. Ours are on a joist-supported floor and we don’t hear either one until the ‘I’m finished’ signal goes off.
      (One exception and only the washer does this: it might start spinning with an unbalanced load and ‘clunk’ once or twice before it shuts off, self-corrects before it begins again).
      But any vibration-dampening means adding mass until the source can’t excite the mass, or (if you are really, really clever) finding the resonant frequency and canceling it somehow.

      1. “canceling it somehow.”
        Meaning generating a signal 1/2-wave out of sequence.

      2. Is there insulation between the joists in your floor? If I overload the washer, the floor acts like a tympanic cavity during spin cycle.

        Sucks, because the water and gas hookups for laundry have a wall in common with the master bedroom…

    3. I once helped convert a guys garage into a professionally designed soundproof studio. It was basically impossible to hear a Marshal stack on 11 outside when finished. But I doubt that would have any application here.

      The trick was to build a room inside the room and to totally isolate it, (rubber washers and such) also insulation was used by it was packed in heavily. Also the door and frame was hickory.

  88. Hate to interrupt this 300 post chat room, but if anyone is interested in helping out the folks attacked by the DEA:

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