New Jersey Proceeds With Medical Marijuana Dispensaries While Arizona Hangs Back
Today New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie announced that he will proceed with plans to allow distribution of medical marijuana by six nonprofit organizations, despite federal prosecution threats. Christie, who had been dragging his feet in implementing New Jersey's medical marijuana law (which was signed by his predecessor, Jon Corzine, after the 2009 election), suspended the program entirely when U.S. attorneys started warning that compliance with state law provides no protection against prosecution under the Controlled Substances Act. He said he wanted some assurance that the feds would not go after state-licensed dispensaries or the regulators who oversee them. He never really got that assurance. In fact, a June 29 Justice Department memo confirmed that suppliers are fair game, contrary to an October 2009 memo that indicated they'd be safe as long as they were in "clear and unambiguous compliance" with state law. But Christie, following the lead of Roseanne Scotti, New Jersey director of the Drug Policy Alliance, evidently took some comfort from the new memo's emphasis on large-scale, commercial operations and the lack of any explicit reference to the legal exposure of state employees:
The governor said he doesn't believe federal authorities will expend limited resources to go after people complying with state law.
"I have been struggling, as has my administration, to find a way to accomplish what I've wanted to accomplish, which is to provide compassionate treatment to people who are suffering in a way that wouldn't expose them, the operators of our dispensaries or the employees of the state of New Jersey to criminal liability," Christie said. "That is a lot easier said than done."
In Arizona, meanwhile, a medical marijuana distribution system approved by voters last November is still on hold. Gov. Jan Brewer suspended implementation of the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act (AMMA) in May, like Christie citing concerns about prosecution of state employees. She has filed a complaint (PDF) that asks a federal judge to decide whether the medical marijuana law, which she opposed before the election, "complies with federal law" or is "preempted in whole or in part because of an irreconcilable conflict with federal law." Oddly, Brewer expresses no preference between those two diametrically opposed choices, which reinforces the impression that her suit is a veiled attempt to overturn Arizona's law without antagonizing its supporters. Two weeks ago the American Civil Liberties Union filed a motion seeking dismissal of Brewer's suit.
Among other things, the ACLU argues that there are no plausible grounds for charging state employees who implement the medical marijuana law with a crime, since regulating dispensaries would not involve growing or distributing marijuana and would not meet the intent and knowledge requirements for convicting someone of conspiracy, aiding and abetting, acting as an accessory, or money laundering. It adds that regulators could not be prosecuted simply for failing to rat out licensees to the feds, since "respecting confidentiality does not constitute an affirmative act," which is required to convict someone of concealing a felony. Because Arizona regulators' function would be limited to determining who qualifies for an exemption from state criminal penalties, the brief argues, it would not conflict with the Controlled Substances Act or prevent the feds from enforcing it.
The only U.S. attorneys who have mentioned the legal risk to state employees, by the way, seem to be Jenny Durkan and Michael Ormsby, who in an April 14 letter to Washington Gov. Christine Gregoire said officials who implemented a proposed distribution system "would not be immune from liability under the CSA." Two weeks later, citing that threat, Gregoire vetoed the bill that would have authorized dispensaries, which she had until then publicly supported. Since she solicited the letter from Durkan and Ormsby, specifically asking about the legal exposure of state employees, she may have been looking for an excuse to block the bill without alienating Washington voters, most of whom approved the state's medical marijuana law in 1998 and, according to polls, continue to support it. Ormsby later claimed the bill would have required state employees to handle marijuana. According to Alison Holcomb, drug policy director at the ACLU of Washington, that's not true: While the state would have tested marijuana under an earlier version of the bill, the final version assigned that task to private labs. In any case, Dennis Burke, the U.S. attorney for Arizona, says he has "no intention" of prosecuting state employees.
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Yeah, but when has "no plausible grounds" stopped a determined AG or DoJ or prosecutor before?
Precisely.
If individual members of the ACLU want to go with the Flounder approach, they should knock themselves out. But assuming that the Feds won't bust people just becasue they shouldn't is like assuming that the sun won't make it out tomorrow.* Arrested people for drugs is the game they are playing- why wouldn't they up the ante by indicting some state officials? It won't be any worse than the preemption logic the Feds are using with respect to Arizona in the immigration context.
Analogy void in Seattle.
the governor is supposed to first and foremost represent the people of his/her state. in brief, gregoire should have fucking cowboyed up and told the feds to molon fucking labe.
she's a fucking cowardly piece o' shit
props to chris christie for having some fucking sack
The Dept. of Jackboots is on thin ice right now anyway.
Shit, I hope they do antagonize a few states -- you can bet your ass that their goons break local laws all the time, so I don't see how they're going to be enforcing DEA regs if they're all in fucking jail.
As an Arizonan (and a nominally Republican one, at that), I'd like to take this opportunity to once again remind the Reason commentariat what POS political "leadership" we have. Brewer is your typical go-along, get-along pol who only got some minor notoriety for the grand act of crawling out from behind her desk, licking her finger to test the political winds, and signing anti-illegal immigration laws that she had nothing to do with. Now that she's had her fun playing the part of "brave politician", she has gone back to having the courage and conviction of a dead possum, as evidence by that POS complaint that she sent to the feds.
I was living out there around '02(on University in Mesa)and seem to remember that they were dragging their feet on MedMar implementation back then.
If I remember correctly they had a voter initiative that would require sheriff's deputies to deliver the weed to patients. This wasn't expected to pass, but to light a fire under the state govt, if my memory serves me right.
I can guarantee that AZ has become a much worse place to live since you were out here.
That's correct, and AZ has gotten much worse in recent years.
Is it the native Arizonans or the influx of easterners there?
When I was there Arizonans generally practiced a live and let live conservatism. There were nativist assholes, to be sure, but most people I met were more Goldwater than Arpaio.
Bit of both, in my opinion (and I assume you're including Californians in the "influx of easterners")
We literally have a "papers please" law now where you can be detained without possessing proper identification.
I always thought it was funny when people from Illinois and Pennsylvania would come to Arizona and bitch about Mexicans coming and taking their jobs. Seems the Mexicans were closer to the front of the line.
I did meet people from everywhere, but the rust belt had overwhelming representation.
What you say sucks because it's been my plan was to return when I got tired of the closed in east.
You guys don't like the free food and medical care?
The funny thing is that a lot of illegals high-tailed it out of Phoenix when the economy took a shit.
Can't say I blame them, you gotta go where there's work.
And it is specifically legal by the federal Controlled Substances Act for law enforcement officers enforcing laws pertaining to controlled substances to manufacture, possess, or distribute them without needing to register with the feds. Which is why I thought the police should run med mj programs; they'd be fed-proof.
Doesn't this mean state police could just start selling it themselves ? medical and otherwise ? and the feds would have to sit on their hands?
Man, I can't put my finger on Christie. The way he shot down the Teachers Unions in NJ was nothing short of brilliant, but I keep seeing strains of statist authoritarianism in some of his other decisions.
But then he gives the finger to the Feds over the dispensaries, and get even more confused.
Look at how time he has spent in the public sector.
Still confused?
He's just a utilitarian guy. If there's a problem, clean it up, whether your methods are statist or not. I don't think he gives a shit one way or another. Better than most, but not good.
He's also one of the few non-libertarian-leaning people in politics who could dismantle a ton of useless fed agencies and provide some much-needed fiscal reform (I get the feeling that Team Red's sacred cows are not exempt, but that may be projection). Plus, he doesn't seem care so much about KULTUR WAR bullshit. He's not principled in the slightest, but he's a better pick than Romney, Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, or Pawlenty.
Greetings from NJ. To understand Christie, imagine a traditional Republican (ignorant as a rock on social issues) who actually walks the walk while talking the talk on fiscal restraint. For a Republican to actually do more than spew hot air on the fiscal stuff is huge, headline-grabbing, and rarely seen in America since Goldwater. Should we be justifiably blinded by the fiscal halo? Maybe. Reagan also had a (albeit less impressive) fiscal halo, and many argued that prehistoric social views he spouted were just tools to assemble a sufficient coalition to get the votes for election. That strategy would be twice as necessary to get elected here in the Peoples Republic of NJ. Does Christie - or did Reagan - ever actually believe in any of that retarded social shit? Reagan took that answer to his grave, as might be expected if it was a scam he pulled to get votes. Christie might just be tipping his hand while still alive with the MedMar decision. Or not.
Minor threadjack (vaguely aligned under the rubric of "medical"): NHS to open services to competition, on "quality not cost", but you know the latter is coming. HIPAA can bite my shiny metal exchange.
Oops -- correct link.
I thought states' rights was all about slavery and the Confederacy.
Now New Jersey is getting into states rights. How can you sing "Dixie" in a New Jersey accent?
It adds that regulators could not be prosecuted simply for failing to rat out licensees to the feds, since "respecting confidentiality does not constitute an affirmative act," which is required to convict someone of concealing a felony.
Sorry kids, but not doing something is the same as doing something in a Post-Obama world.
I've always felt that the "medical marijuana" approach was a bad one. It simply opens the door for asinine debates with respect to whether or not it has any real medicinal value. Never mind that it is an essentially harmless weed which people should absolutely be free to enjoy if they choose to. And yea, it is complete idiocy to talk about being "free" in a country which feel it can dictate to you what plants you can grow and ingest.
That approach is a compromise with the prohibitionists, and compromisers never win. They cede authority to the prohibitionists in exchange for a few crumbs thrown their way, never realizing that their inherent right to put whatever they want into their own bodies has been destroyed by their own willingness to accept gifts from their government, gifts that are not their governments' to give.
See SIV's comment below about medical morphine. If it hadn't been for that compromise, what would people with severe pain have to do today? Easy for you to be uncompromising with other people's well being.
exactly. it's more of the "perfect is the enemy of the good" purity test crap that shows an astounding ignorance of how things work in the real world.
wanking about shit on the internet achieves nothing. medical MJ is helping the cause, as is the push towards decrim, etc.
incrementalism may not please the purists but it's an actual strategy that can work in the real world
As I pointed out below medical morphine has done nothing to encourage legalization or "decriminalization" for 97 years now. Legal medical marijuana maybe more humane for some patients but it is not a path to legalization.
But if we didn't have medical morphine, what would be the chances for marijuana? And meanwhile what would pain patients do?
Easy for you to be uncompromising with other people's well being
I don't compromise with my own "well being." The "others" are on their own. And when they give an inch to government prohibitionists, they shouldn't be surprised when they take a mile. See the U.S. Attorney General for references.
Are you out of your fucking mind? You think anybody would be better off today if narcotics had been completely outlawed rather than the compromise of allowing their medical use having been put forth and accepted?
We would be better off if the government didn't stick its head in to where it doesn't fucking belong.
Who the fuck is some bureaucrat to tell me that I can't ingest whatever the fuck I choose under any circumstances (that don't involve hurting another)?
This reminds me of my favorite weed scene in recent memory-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1jk4F1757A
it's a pragmatic and reaslistic approach. and it is working thus far. it is a tactic (one among many) to help change people's minds about MJ, to give people opportunity to realize that when people use MJ they don't turn into raging jazz musician rapists, etc.
it also helps legitimate sufferers of pain get some relief.
iow, it's a good approach, although it doesn't please some purists, much like decrim (vs. outright legalization)
"The governor said he doesn't believe federal authorities will expend limited resources to go after people complying with state law."
Good one!
Medical Marijuana laws are the biggest threat to drug prohibition in decades.
Large parts of the law enforcement/legal system bureaucracies depend on the war on drugs as justification for funding, jobs and even their existence.
They'll do anything they can get away with to counter this threat.
Medical Marijuana laws are the biggest threat to drug prohibition in decades.
It worked out so well for medical morphine.
if the Gov grew a pair he should deal the feds to butt out, offer no assistance or info. tell them to shove it! if more states , or shit any state did that they would freak, as you techniaccly dont have to have a 21 drinking age or such. hope its texas, cause they could seeing as they only get back about .80 on the dollar of thier money sent to the feds, they could say fuck em and be 20% better off.
Brewer is such a piece of shit. She reminds me of the one person in every company that CC's her boss, her boss's boss, all the C-level executives, HR, and the IT department with some passive aggressive email when her boss creates a departmental policy she doesn't agree with.
Dear Jan:
The people passed the law. Deal with it.
Signed,
AZ
You know who else told people to deal with passed laws?
/asshat
Please, it was a referendum put to a popular vote that would have been enacted by now if any government, Federal or State, actually followed the rules laid out to them in their respective constitutions.
I was making an absurd statement, hence the /asshat tag I applied to myself.
Perhaps I ought to just be more clever in the future so as to avoid any confusion. ;P
I thought you were calling me an asshat, asshat!
don't call me "buddy", "guy"
You know, the funny thing is that the federal government of the United States has spent the majority of our republic's history annulling its own legitimacy by eviscerating the terms of the federal compact of society. By right, it no longer exists. I'd have declared secession by now if I were the Arizonan legislature, but what the fuck do I know? I'm just a neo-Confederate, negro-hating, gay-lynching states' rights proponent with... FUCKING SHOCK... a REVOLVER and... *gulp*... SIX ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I myself don't remember signing on the Constitution's dotted line.
Oy vey, I must be more racist than you!
I've been told by some statists here that voting, accepting or using any publicly funded thing, paying taxes, or just acknowledging the state is the same thing as consent.
This Is What Statists Actually Believe.
And when a "master" feeds a slave, and the slave eats the meal, its' consent! I'm catching on!
Tell me about it.
Sheopleness renders its feo, fugly face everyday on these here boards of the commentariat.
Of course, one manifestation of the foregoing is the de rigeur invocation of "neo-confederate" or "slavery apologist" by properly indoctrinated and trained citizens of the Regime in response to a post by more cerebral commenters regarding the FACT that Abraham Lincoln was a mass murderer.
I don't want to say I was "indoctrinated" in public school 1) it sounds hyperbolic and 2. I generally was able to think for myself in the latter years. However the coverage of usurpin' Abe was extremely biased in his favor. My junior year high school teacher, I kid not, thought questions about federalism were adequately answered by the North conquering the South, etc. I'm glad to say I tried to contest that.
Shit, that's what a CC government professor told me a couple years ago..
Off Topic:
Pittsburgh Police implement pull over quota in predominantly black neighborhood.
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
A more accurate headline would have read: Pittsburgh Police Finally Admit To Pullover Quota In Predominantly Black Neighborhood
10 a month in zone 1? C'mon it's not like they can't make that quota in a single night.
Zone 2; strip, hill, downtown.
One lady on the news actually thought that they'd get their quota by stopping speeders on Penn Ave. Yeah sure, people will slow to 25mph and shit will shut down.
Deputy Chief Paul Donaldson said the quota is neither illegal nor unreasonable, because officers are not being forced to issue citations or warnings.
Last I knew, roadside detentions themselves had to be justified by some reasonable suspicion of lawbreaking -- which in theory can't be expected to occur 10 times a night -- so saying that they don't have to write tickets really doesn't solve the constitutional problem of incentivizing unjustified detentions.
So, Tulpa, if you were an african american young man, residing in steeltown, would you rather deal with a "soldier" in a decrepit and effete La Cosa Nostra family, or the local constabulary?
I object!
Well, Christie is a Christian
http://www.holyhemp.org/
So, maybe the left will now discover the benefits of the ten amendment?
They've always known about the benefits, but are liberals actually in favor of the 10th? When it's beneficial, sure. When it's not, fuck no. In other words, no.
As someone who's a former liberal and still engages in (somewhat) cordial discussions with liberals, I have to admit that most of them have zero principles whatsoever. (Free speech is an exception for some, but not all) They have some vague ideas about an idyllic society (helping the poor, preserving the environment, some civil liberties, education, health care etc.) that they've built big programs around, and these programs must be protected while building new ones. Their moral philosophy is a brand of sloppy act-utilitarianism, and things like the Constitution or fair competition don't matter one bit if they don't meet their immediate moral concerns. This becomes especially clear when liberals (justly) complain about corporate welfare when oil companies get tax breaks, but when Walmart backs one of Obamacare's mandates (because it reduces competition for them), libs think it's because Walmart's heart grew three times bigger.
Aside from the aforementioned free speech, where many liberals are surprisingly principled, I can't think of a single issue where liberals are consistently pro-liberty. States' rights: good when the states are progressive and feds aren't, bad vice versa. Drugs: marijuana should be legal, but try to sell it without a license and it's off to jail with you. Zoning laws: bad when people use them to discriminate against Muslims building mosques, good when we get to design our own little Progressotopias with them.
abortion
Two things I learned from reading this.
1). Every time I start to hate the Fat Man, he does something like this.
2). Jan Brewer is ugly as fuck.
So is your mother.
Interesting that Christie made this decision merely days after Team Obama released its 2011 National Drug Control Strategy, which devotes an entire section to trashing medical marijuana as junk science, a threat to our youth, and a cause of rising marijuana abuse among the young, while claiming that the only real medicines are those substances approved by the FDA.
If you had predicted two years ago that former U.S. Attorney Christie would be pushing ahead with medical marijuana while Barack Obama was attacking it with guns blazing, who would have believed you?
Yes, it also says Mr. Not a fan of same-sex marriage is politically astute, in that he plans to run in the future.
This action softens the perception from the university vote; the under 25 that Obama threw away, and the gay community who are big proponents of medical marijuana
Currently in Michigan our attorney general is being targeted for a recall because he's been trying to undermine the voter initiative for Medical Marijuana in 2008. He was one of the primary opponents of the initiative, which passed with 64% voter approval. He's been trying to push back against the dispensaries.
Him, and several prosecutors and lawmen have complained that the law is "vague" or in other words, the law doesn't leave a role for the government to regulate the activity the way they'd like.
Yep, I'm telling all of you lovers of liberty and champions of would be small government, this is our guy right here.
He carries a lot of weight in New Jersey.
[rim shot]
I've heard he's comfy with Jersey's intrusive gun laws. Am I up to date?
Yes, you are. Did he ever pardon that one guy who got busted for something ridiculous in regards to this? Something like his mom was worried and called the cops and the cops ended up busting him for... it was something like unloaded or disassembled weapons.
No, but I think he commuted the sentence or something. Maybe?
Yup, good call, he commuted it. Here we go: http://www.nj.com/news/index.s....._rele.html
Sentenced to seven fucking years in prison. For having guns, legally purchased, locked and unloaded in his fucking trunk.
that case was a fucking travesty. NJ is INSANE when it comes to gun shit
you really can't overstate how their level of fuckupedness regarding RKBA.
good on christie for commuting, though
If I was going to drive through NJ I'd have to get my car detailed just to make sure there aren't any hollow points floating around. It's a felony rap in Jersey.Recently I lost a part off a craigslist purchase in my trunk, pulled the carpet, and found a sealed bag of 50 .38 SP JHP I picked up at a gunshow a few years ago.I had bought 500+ rounds in different chamberings and this one bag slipped through the trunk behind the fold down rear seat. I'm sure there is a loose single round or two in the car somewhere right now.
I did hear about that. He commuted his sentence:
http://hotair.com/archives/201.....an-aitken/
A nice gesture, but for all I know he could still support intrusive gun laws.
Comments on the nj.com article say he's "definitely not 2A". Which I assume is a plus in the NJ mindset.
Last I heard it was commuted so that the case could continue up the food chain, not because Christie was unwilling to issue a pardon.
Put it this way:
Do I want Christie to be President? No.
Would I prefer him to Obama, Romney, Bachmann, or any other GOP candidate not named Paul or Johnson? Yes.
Plus, he's fat. Anything to break the idea that Romney-types should be given a shot at the presidency based on the fact that "OMG HE LOOKS SO PRESIDENTIAL" is a good thing. The celebrity president is nothing but a fucking godawful side effect of the television era.
Otherwise, we might as well elect Zaphod Beeblebrox and just be done with the idea that the office is based on representation and merit.
For a split second I thought you were talking about Zap Brannigan. But then I realized that would defeat your point.
Maybe he was talking about Bash Branigan.
But considering the last few presidents, electing Zaphod Beeblebrox would actually reinforce the idea that the office is based on representation and merit.
The ACLU is on the wrong side in this. A declaratory judgment would be very good in clarifying what's already clear to anybody who really looks at this legally.
As to the laboratories issue, states already have labs licensed to examine marijuana. The police are allowed to handle it too. Of course it's silly to think otherwise, but why the fuck does the ACLU not want a judge to say so?
Good for Christie on the dispensaries. Out here in sunny California, as cities and counties all over the state are banning dispensaries and law enforcement is harassing medical growers, the silence of our Governor Moonbeam on the issue has been deafening.
After watching the P19 debacle, and the opposition of the medical MJ types in CA, I think the best thing that could happen is a complete shutdown of medical MJ dispensaries. Apparently the douche-bag, "I got my scrip, so fuck legalization" types have to be persuaded to support legalization.
The smart money would be on your wish coming true. The political and law enforcement classes don't want the dispensaries, and SB 420's ridiculous "non-profit collaborative" clause is so vague that the harassment opportunities are limitless.
Have you heard of the Regulate Marijuana Like Wine plan?
I had not heard of it, but I am well aware of Judge Grey.
I support regulating MJ like wine. Grow your own, brew your own, be your own vintner. Seems sensible to me. I voted for P19, and I will happily vote for any legalization initiative.
So Brewer is simultaneously arguing in various courts that federal immigration law does not preempt state immigration laws, and that federal drug laws do preempt state drug laws.
Pretty much.
This state (AZ) has always had it's share of sketchy politicians (Symington, Meacham, Arpaio, etc), but it does seem to be getting worse. We've passed pro-mj laws here three times now, and once again, politicians are subverting the will of the people. (Who are only "right" a depressingly minority of the time, anyway.)
Is it any better in FL? I'm moving there in a couple weeks.
At the very least you'll get fresh seafood in addition to the snowbirds and corrupt political shitheads.
No.
To elaborate, we have (like AZ) a massive population of old people. But they make up an even larger % of the population, so even a MM bill won't pass here for a while.
No, she's not arguing that federal laws preempt state drug laws, she's seeking a declaratory judgment saying they're in the clear.
nice case here. note the reasonmeme(tm) is "if a guy who wasn't a cop did this, he would be ARRESTED" yet again proven false.
homeowner fights with intruder, intruder dies in struggle (note: no taser needed), homeowner NOT arrested
"but there's a double standard. cops are the only ones who don't get arrested when stuff like that happens" bla bla
the investigation is ON GOING (wow, sound familiar?)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/125847603.html
Dunphy your presence is requested in a more recent thread!
She found her tripod. See thread.
Yes, killing some dude who breaks into your house is the same as killing some dude who swings a bag at you when you fuck with him over some piddling nonsense.
lol. a "bag". kind of depends what's in the bag y0. wasn't limp noodles
#58 Allison
For the record, I still do not buy the notion that one may take "some comfort from {Cole} memo's emphasis on large-scale, commercial operations and the lack of any explicit reference to the legal exposure of state employees," especially in light of the jihad against medical marijuana Obama declared in his 2011 National Drug Control Strategy.
In fact, given that Christie is a potential 2012 opponent and is utterly despised by the public sector unions that Obama loves, it would not surprise me if NJ finds itself in the feds' cross-hairs.
THC Support help you to get legal medical marijuana
Doesn't Camden have 100,000 SWAT teams, 100,000 governmental bureaucrats, 100,000,000 rules and regulations? Friends tell me it's the worst place in New Jersey, where AT LEAST I KNOW I'M FREE.
I support Chris Christie !
could marijuana act like a muscle relaxant? Never tried the stuff, but I can't take NSAIDs (heartburn) and I work out a lot
Jesus said to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let's include saying "Good Job!" when we see someone moving in the right direction (and possibly likely to take some heat for it). Here's the link to Governor Christie's feedback site: http://www.state.nj.us/governor/contact/ Way to go, Governor Christie!
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