What Does the SWAT Marine Data Dump Prove?

As Mike Riggs noted earlier, helmetcam footage of the Pima County, Arizona, Sheriff's Department SWAT raid that killed 26-year-old Marine Iraq veteran Jose Guerena has been released. 

The footage is part of a larger release that includes a debriefing [pdf] with Sgt. Bob Krygier, the primary supervisor per se during the operation; audio of the 911 call made by widow Vanessa Guerena (the only adult proximate witness to the slaying not affiliated with Arizona law enforcement); and a transcript [pdf] of Vanessa Guerena's interrogation shortly after Jose Guerena's death.

Those links come from Fernanda Echávarri's excellent coverage in the Arizona Daily Star, which contains this handy summation of what's new in the data dump: 

The reports state Jose Guerena; his brother, Alejandro; and Jose Celaya were named as suspects in briefings given to officers before the search warrants were served. Many of the officers' reports refer to the sheriff's long-term drug investigation as the reason for the search warrants.

Reports show about $100,000 in cash, marijuana and firearms were seized that morning from the four homes that were searched.

Items found in Jose Guerena's house included: a Colt .38-caliber handgun, paperwork, tax returns, insurance papers, bank statements and a bank card, reports showed.

Another report said detectives found body armor in a hallway closet and a U.S. Border Patrol hat in the garage.

Some search warrant documents remained sealed and were not released Thursday.

Having beaten the drum for more documentation and less innuendo about the four-house raid that resulted in one death and no arrests, I briefly turn my frown upside down for this new information, which supports some key details about Guerena's death. 

Krygier's version of events explains why the elite public safety unit failed to allow Guerena any medical assistance for more than an hour after shooting him 60 22 times. They were waiting for a camera-enabled robot to film and probe Guerena's lifeless body. During this delay, Guerena's four-year-old son, who as the SWAT team knew was hiding in a bedroom, left his hiding place, walked out through a home Krygier describes as being splattered with Guerena's blood, brain matter and bone fragments, and delivered himself to the police through the breached front door.

Krygier's debriefing took place just under an hour after Vanessa Guerena's interrogation, but it is not clear whether he had heard Vanessa Guerena's comments before making his own claims. There are eight "Unidentified Males" listed among the 13 interrogators in the transcript of Guerena's interview (which took place about 90 minutes after the attack), but there's no way to know whether Krygier was one of them. It is striking that in his debriefing Krygier claims he pleaded with Guerena, while calling her "Vanessa," during her 911 call. If there's evidence that he was on the call with her at all, let alone long enough to get on a first-name basis, I have not discovered it. It may be in there somewhere. 

Vanessa Guerena's 911 call and interrogation transcript support an important claim made by the police: Jose Guerena did pick up a weapon when the raid began. Vanessa Guerena identified the rifle as an AK-47 while Krygier said it was an AR-15, but there does not seem to be reasonable doubt that Guerena was holding a weapon when he was killed. (Krygier also refers to having seen but not retrieved another AR-15 between the mattress and frame of Guerena's bed.) 

Also worth highlighting: ABC News points out that no drugs were found at Guerena's house. The new statements somewhat narrow the gap between two allegations about Guerena: that he was part of a drug ring and part of a home invasion ring. Krygier describes the imagined syndicate as a "rip crew, uh, to steal other people's marijuana and perform home invasions," which sounds like pretty high-labor, low-return moonlighting for a guy who was already working 12-hour shifts at a mine. 

Radley Balko records an unsubstantiated allegation from Mike Storie, the attorney for the five shooters: 

In an email to me this morning, Mike Storie, the union lawyer, alleges that Jose Guerena had been previously arrested in Pima County, along with several others, and that "drugs and weapons were found." He writes that Guerena was never charged because he "flipped on a higher-up." An online records search doesn't turn up any criminal history for Guerena, but I'm not sure that sort of search would turn up an arrest that never resulted in a charge.

For pro-SWAT coverage, look to local KGUN TV newsman Joel Waldman. 

Guerena's family attorney says he is still seeking information and will not make any comment.

Update: Echávarri has several clarifications on scuttlebutt that has been reported here and elsewhere:

Seizure results from the four houses:  

The raid netted drugs, large amounts of cash, bulletproof vests, about 30 cellphones and a stolen vehicle, records show, but no arrests have been made.

Downward revision on shots that connected with the target from 60 to 22. Sheriff's claim that SWAT discharged 71 rounds overall is unchanged:  

It was initially reported that Jose Guerena was shot 60 times by five SWAT officers who fired 71 rounds in less than 10 seconds. The family was told by a doctor that Jose was shot 60 times, they told the Star. Preliminary reports from the Pima County Medical Examiner's Office state that Guerena died from 22 gunshot wounds, Dr. Gregory Hess said Friday.

Details on the 2010 shooting of two of Jose Guerena's medium-distant in-laws: 

Jose Guerena, 26, his older brother, Alejandro Guerena, and Jose Celaya - a relative by marriage - were listed as suspects in an investigation of drug trafficking and home invasions, records show. Warrants were served at homes owned by Jose Guerena; Bertha Guerena, Jose's mother; and two homes owned by Jose and Graciela Celaya.

During a briefing before the warrants were served, records show, detectives told SWAT team members the two Guerena brothers and Celaya were associated with a double homicide related to a home invasion.

On March 29, 2010, Alejandro Guerena's sister-in-law was shot to death during a home invasion. Cynthia Orozco, 34, and her husband, Manuel Francisco Orozco, 36, were killed at their rented home in the 7800 block of West Spiney Lizard Place, Star archives show. That house is down the street from one of the homes searched in the May 5 raid, records show. Cynthia Orozco was the sister of Alejandro Guerena's wife, Pauline. No arrests have been made in those slayings.

It was at Pauline and Alejandro's house that the police made their biggest haul that day: $94,000 in a large shoebox, a bag of pot and a few weapons. 

Comments

[Contrarian P]

The evidence doesn't look any better for the police here. The guy was carrying a gun in his own home with no contraband in the house, so he was killed. I'm still waiting to hear what the evidence was that prompted the warrant to raid the house in the first place.

[Philosoraptor]

"Vanessa Guerena identified the rifle as an AK47 while Krygier said it was an AR15,"

Are we sure it wasn't a samurai umbrella?

[Irresponsible Hater]

Before they go in, you can see what looks like a cop's gun's laser sight bouncing all over his own guy's back and head. Real professionals. Especially the guy that runs up and starts shooting, apparently blindly, into the house over his buddies' shoulders.

[Irresponsible Hater]

laser starts at 20 second mark, most visible at 30 seconds.

[Irresponsible Hater]

maybe a reflection. wtf do I know?

[cabeza de Vaca]

I noticed that and wondered if that was a laser too.

[-]

Maybe it's...then again it might be...but if...

[Fist of Etiquette]

In an email to me this morning, Mike Storie, the union lawyer, alleges that Jose Guerena had been previously arrested in Pima County, along with several others, and that "drugs and weapons were found."

Storie has shown no problem making shit up, so we will have to wait until records actually prove that Guerena has an arrest record. The attorney already stated that the team members were separated immediately but recordings show that they collaborated at the scene to square their stories. That procedural fuckup will cast doubt on any version they put forth.

[rather]

http://www.arizonapublicrecord.com/

[Fist of Etiquette]

An online records search doesn't turn up any criminal history for Guerena, but I'm not sure that sort of search would turn up an arrest that never resulted in a charge.

[rather]

I've done it too but he may have more than one name. I believe it may be Jose M Guerenaortiz

[Contrarian P]

What difference does it make if he had a record or not? That's not at all the issue here. That's kind of like the "she's a slut" rape defense.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Up until the release of these records, all the information we've gotten from Pima County has been from the attorney, and we're still mixing those assertions in as though they could be fact. If Storie fabricated a thing that clearly would be public record, it should then remove everything he's said from being reported as credible.

[Wind Rider]

Think we're already at the 'discount the weaselly lawyer' point - simply based on conflating Guerena and his house with items found at other locations, hoping to tar Guerenas post mortem image with them. Here's hoping that the Guerena family attorney includes a nice defamation angle on the legal fucking that Pima County's finest have earned for their taxpayers. It'd be pretty sweet, and very instructive to local government paid mouthpieces that don't have either the moxy or the smarts to survive in private legal practice not to sell their souls and credibility just for the chance to have a cush job and steady paycheck.

[rather]

I am not saying anything other than all the facts ARE important.

The authorities are leaking info, and searches can disprove their assertions.

I don't give a crap if he has a criminal record, or not.

If he doesn't own his house but it is mortgaged though a parent that presents information.
If his mortage is clear that presents info.
If he had drunk driving arrest with, or without narcotics that presents info etc.

[Mr smith]

So we can see the history of his arrest but not the search warrant that allowed the raids?

[WasabiPeas]

It appears it is like 7-8 seconds after the door is knocked in before shooting starts. During that time shouldn't the police be anouncing their presence?

[daveInAustin]

It appears that they solved a tragic optimization problem: minimize the chance of anyone inside hearing them while doing the legal amount of "announcing". Why not make a phone call? Why not use the PA system on their van? Why not make one announcement after they knocked down the door? In the documents, Krygier states that they were worried about destruction of evidence.
If we keep doing this type of raid, there is no chance that there won't be more tragic shootings like this.

[CatoTheElder]

This whole "destruction of evidence" excuse is totally lame.

The pigs could just shut the water off to the house before a drug bust. If there's no water the dealer would only get one flush. That's enough to completely dispose of a few ounces maybe. Even then, there would be some residue on the sewer pipes that could be recovered if the pigs wanted to prosecute the perp for destruction of evidence. That's enough for a felony conviction and 5-years in the slammer.

The truth is that these pigs like to dress up in military gear, handle weapons, and terrorize people.

[Old Soldier]

No - the police should be announcing their presence before knocking the door down.

After the door is knocked down, they should be flying through that door - not sillouting themselves in the doorway. Only untrained idiots would do such a thing. It's called "dynamic entry", not "stand in the doorway with guns blazing."

[SFC B]

Exactly. That was something I mentioned in the original stories about this. The way they executed the entry is horrible. Took too long and no weapon discipline. They fired all of their rounds and clustered in the doorway. If their had been a second armed person, or if Guerna had something better to take cover behind, returned fire would have been deadly.

Amateurs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

While outside, a SWAT member asked the team leader if they were going inside the house. The team leader can be heard on the tape saying no, and the team member said, "Why not? ... Might as well finish what I started."

Poorly trained and ill-suited for the job.

[capitol l]

Being a man about town, I have run across some local swat, and they are more 'chubby middle aged asshole' than 'lean, mean, puppy killing machine'.

They'll still crack yer skull without thinking about it, but sealesque uber-warriors they are not.

[TheZeitgeist]

Looks like a bunch of amateurs were Bin Laden dreaming.

[SIV]

Quite the opposite experience I had with a local SWAT I bought a pistol from in a private sale. He seemed like a stone killer. He missed being in Iraq w/ his Guard unit because he never met any resistance on local SWAT raids.Nice guy and definitely at the high end of the IQ curve for LEOs.
He was a damn Sig-fanboy though.

[fish]

He missed being in Iraq w/ his Guard unit because he never met any resistance on local SWAT raids.

Congratulations you survived an encounter with a psychopath.

[Britt]

Try warrior. For, oh, the entirety of human history the warrior type has been very successful at spreading his genes.

Some say we've moved past that, I say history repeats itself, and hard men are always good to have around. Of course, the beta bitches of the world might disagree, but if you want to be free, you better be ready to defend said freedom with steady hands.

If this guy had been born 40 years ago he'd be bouncing around the Congo with Mike Hoare. Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacr? mercenaire.

[fish]

Get back to me when you're done jacking (or Jilling off....you might be female). The fact remains that this psychopath admitted that he was disappointed that the citizenry didn't shoot back...apparently depriving him the opportunity to kill them! Did you tell the fuck he might be better off chasing the fucking Taliban throughout the entirety of AfPak instead of pouting about not being able to shoot his fellow Americans.

Beta bitches? Ten bucks says you suck dick like a fuckin porn star.

[Sy]

Try warrior.

No, psychopath is correct. Even most Marines that I've worked with on the infantry side still operate on a professional level, saving the adrenaline "kill em all" attitude for the rear. This child is a psychopath who should be treated as both by the rest of the community.

[Tulpa]

Hard men are only good to have around if they're actually, you know, defending freedom. Which SWAT teams ain't, for the most part. (Neither are Iraq/Afghanistan troops really, but that's not their fault, it's the fault of the civilian leadership sending them on stupid missions)

[Britt]

First of all, I want to apologize. I wrote my comment flippantly, neglecting to consider how it might be read by others. I didn't mean to insult anyone here, and I didn't mean to express wholehearted agreement with the unnamed friend's sentiment. I certainly don't think the current state of SWAT use for nonviolent offenders is defensible at any level, moral, legal, or practical. I do take issue with the contention that this cop's sentiments are a form of mental illness.

He's saying he loves the rush of testing his skill against another for the highest stakes imaginable. Defining that as psychopathy is a recent development in human history, at most a century old.

For thousands of years the humans that survived to reproduce were those who thrived in life or death situations, or at least were able to function. At first it was competing for scarce resources with other tribes or animals, later on men would be pressed into the service of one king or another, or conscripted by the nation state. We've been selecting for this hunger, this thirst for battle, as a species for our entire existence.

Now you're telling me that it's a mental disorder to feel this rush, this adrenaline surge that you can only get by laying your life behind your brains and your nerve and your strength and speed? I cannot agree with that. It may now be an undesirable trait from a social or even evolutionary standpoint, but I don't think it is a mental disorder.

Though I suppose "mental disorder" is really a product of social environment. It's an interesting topic of discussion.

[fish]

Maybe he should play HALO.

[Angus MacAskill]

I'd be willing to chip in toward a private island where all the killer-instinct lunatics can go and hunt each other down like game animals. Anything to get them away from the rest of us.

There's probably a movie in that somewhere.

[fish]

There's probably a movie in that somewhere.

Or at least a new professional sports league.

[akn]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266308/

[Tulpa]

The problem is, people who enjoy fighting to the death are more likely to do it even when it's not necessary.

It may now be an undesirable trait from a social or even evolutionary standpoint, but I don't think it is a mental disorder.

If you push a psychologist to give a definition, they'll admit that that's all a mental disorder is -- a socially maladaptive pattern of behavior.

That's how we justify saying that perceiving that a bread wafer is a human being is not a delusion, but perceiving that a doll is a human being is a delusion. The former makes no more sense than the latter, but it's part of our culture.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Or having his jollies with the rest of his Einsatzgruppen buddies.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

99.9% of cops give the other .1% a bad name. It is impossible to be moral and a police officer in modern-day America unless you're some rural sheriff who's willing to look the other way on consensual crimes but vigilant when it comes to protecting persons and property or some similar situation.

The usual response I hear to this is that timeless classic, the Nuremberg defense.

Or that you can "work within" the system to change it. Meanwhile, in reality:

"Like many police officers, PO Schoolcraft joined the NYPD to help people and serve communities plagued by real crime; instead he was faced with enormous pressure to harass law abiding people in order to fudge statistics. Morally opposed to these policies, PO Schoolcraft refused to follow these unlawful orders and was met with retaliation from the highest levels of the NYPD. This ultimately culminated in an attempt to forcibly silence and discredit him; on October 31, 2009, several high ranking NYPD officials illegally entered PO Schoolcraft's home, forcibly removed him in handcuffs, seized his personal effects, including evidence he had gathered documenting NYPD corruption, and had him admitted to Jamaica Hospital Center against his will, under the false pretense that he was "emotionally disturbed."

http://schoolcraftjustice.com/

Or how about something a little more local and in a judicial capacity:

"A Chandler [Arizona] attorney was kicked off the bench Thursday an hour into his first shift as a judge after he announced in writing that he would disqualify himself from all drug cases because drug laws conflict with his libertarian principles.

By the end of the day, the Arizona Supreme Court's chief justice stripped Marc Victor of his authority to work as a judge pro tem, which are attorneys who serve for free as temporary judges.

"I was pretty shocked," said Victor, 34, a criminal law defense attorney who also serves on the legal committee for the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, also known as NORML. "Either you take a certain philosophical position or you can't be a judge."

Judge Thomas O'Toole, who heads Maricopa County's criminal law judges, said Victor was using the courthouse as a political platform, which was "grossly inappropriate" and "bizarre."

"This conduct was a legal blindside," said O'Toole, who ordered Victor off the bench in the morning. "We were set up."

http://www.cognitiveliberty.or.....ctor1.html

Most police are little more than an armed criminal gang... but, oh, what a lot of difference that little more makes.

[fish]

Judge Thomas O'Toole

It sounds like the tools parents suspected he might wind up a liar...err...lawyer.

[herve villechaize]

"99.9% of cops give the other .1% a bad name."...and that .1% are just dickheads in training.

[TheZeitgeist]

For USMC vet working 12-hour shifts in a fucking mine to support his wife and kids to go down like that is...ah, criminal. This guy sounds like what the USA needs more of yet this is their reward.

I saw a comment on another Reason thread regarding this matter hoping the USMC got to raid the SWAT team members' houses...oh that would be sweet!

[rather]

when the story broke, I remarked his lifestyle was not suspicious. I don't know any drug dealers who work double-shifts, carry a mortgage, drive non-luxury cars, wives who don't wear gaudy jewelry, etc.

[Gone to look for America..]

Q. Okay. How long have you been, ___ been together?
A. ___ each other, since, we were like, kids, like, 5 years, ___ .

Q. Oh, really? Okay.
A. So we started going out like when we are 16, and we got married, we got married like at 18, ___ .

Q. Okay.
A. Because, ___ , well, he wanted to get married, before he go, he went to, ___ .

Q. ___ .
A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. Okay. Okay.
A. ___ know like, how hard it was for us to get, like, the little things that we got.

Q. Uh huh (yes). Are you from here, ma'am?
A. No, no, I'm from Mexico.

Q. Oh, you are? Okay.
A. ___ , well, last year, ___ we, ___ to get my U-S citizen.

Q. ___ .
A. And, I did.

[Ted S.]

SWAT Mad Libs!

[Warren]

audio of the 9/11 call made by widow Vanessa Guerena...

Oh hellz no. It's Nine-One-One NOT Nine/Eleven.

[sage]

I was wondering if it was a call to the future or the past. Or did this get ghostwritten by Gouliani?

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Thanx. Fixt.

[rather]

Is that American spelling?

[OO]

U bett.

[rather]

http://alturl.com/47vpz

[Tman]

It needs to be mentioned again that Guerena was working a 12 hour shift at a local mine, and was asleep when the SWAT team arrived.

Drug dealers and "home invasion" rings don't work 12 hour shifts at a mine. Like, ever.

I think the cops and their supers fucked up really really bad and they know it. I've yet to see any evidence at all that supports the argument that Guerena was in any way a threat and/or suspect in the SWAT raid. The lack of evidence to this point is even more telling. If the cops had something better than a Border Patrol baseball hat to pin on Guerena we would've heard about it by now. The "body armor" argument considering he had just returned from two tours in Iraq with the Marines was laughable.

There of course may be something to Guerena's record that we still haven't heard about, but I can't explain why it's taking this long to hear about it unless there isn't anything to report to begin with.

They need to prosecute the SWAT team goons for homicide if this is the best they got. Anything less is unacceptable.

[Wind Rider]

The body armor point is absolutely valid - I did the 'quickie' Gulf War, and ended up finding out that nobody wanted the personal equipment bag I fully expected to turn back in to supply. It contained a kevlar helmet (the large, old style), a older design Kevlar jacket, and gas mask set. From an ACTUAL military experience perspective, it's particularly rankling that the unprofessional Pima County fucks are using Guerena's possession of some of the key tools he used in his service to protect THEIR pussy Rambo-wannabe asses as 'evidence' he was somehow nefarious.

I'm starting to think a fitting punishment for that band of buffoons would be to have them suited up in a selection of costumes used to film any version of "A Cage au Faux", affixed with super glue to their bodies, and then dropped into the Af/Pak border area, after they're briefed that the Dari or Pashtu phrase for "Help Me", which actually translates to "I want to suck your goat's cock."

[Raining Icepicks]

It grates on me that the finding of scary/unpopular items in his posession is used to establish retrograde guilt.
Even if Guerena wasn't a Marine,so what if he had weapons and para-military gear?
In a world gone mad it seems sane to have the means to defend one's life,family and propery.

[rather]

Even if he had a criminal record, they knew the family schedule, and could have easily picked him up at work, in his driveway, at a mall etc.
Why risk lives with these warrants?

[John]

Oh mean go pick him up at work and serve the warrant when there is no one there? Gee rather, that would require doing actual police work. And no one becomes a cop much less a SWAT member to do that. You become a member of the SWAT team to run around with a rifle like a retarded baboon.

[rather]

They admitted that they knew the family schedule, and expected the wife and kids to be gone by the time they entered the house. Either case, they failed.

[John]

It is always easier and safer to get someone away from their home. He is unlikely to have a weapon walking to his car from work. And it is much easier to enter and search and empty house than one full of people.

They just don't care rather. They don't care to do their jobs. And they don't care about their own much less anyone else's safety.

[sloopyinca]

I disagree about not caring about their own safety. They wear body armor, put rams on their cars, use blast shields and APC's to raid a cockfight. If one thing is certain, it's that they ensure they will go home at the end of the night.

[John]

True. But if you cared about your own safety, wouldn't you try to minimize conflict? I think they do care about their safety. But they care more about the rush of terrorizing people. If you only cared about your safety, you would studiously avoid charging into houses in which there may be someone waiting to do you harm.

[rather]

I agree with you John: there is an addiction to the rush that makes these raids desirable but why judges? Why do they sign off on these warrants?

[Wind Rider]

Excellent point. While the borderline pshycos running around in Kevlar and guns usually get the pass of anonymity for 'safety' reasons, the actions of a very visible sitting judge are different, and should be very, very public record. Wonder how much of a lollygagging, 'just give them good ole boys what they need to git 'er done' fucked up imperial attitude these fucksticks in robes would exhibit if their record of authorixing undue violence, regularly, against the citizenry looks when compiled and publicized, demonstrating them as bloodthirsty assholes, rather than 'servants' of the law.

[sloopyinca]

Why do they sign off on these warrants?

So they can say: "Hi. I'm Judge ________. Over my last term, I approved more search warrants for drugs and guns than any other judge in the state. Because I care about keeping your kids safe by keeping guns and drugs off the street, you should vote for me, Judge ________."

[voiceover]*This message was approved by the re-elect Judge _______ campaign.

[Judge]

What? You mean I and my brethren ought to err on the side of caution?

Won't that hurt our chances of being re-elected for being soft on crime?

[2sense]

They should have performed surveillance before going in.

[Fat Crack Ho]

Silly goose! Where's the fun in that?? Can't you just imagine the sheer rush that comes with kicking in a front door, gunning down the man of the house, then sticking an automatic weapon in the face of the new widow??

[primefactor1942]

Ok... Not that I am trying to make a point blank decision about whether everything was right or wrong about all of the circumstances leading up to this unfortunate event... But, unless I missed the facts that were presented, the police were serving a legal warrant... They announced themselves before entry... They announced themselves upon entry... And the wife's own recount of the events places an assault rifle in her husbands hands with it in the general direction of the police... The facts presented as they are seem like grounds for opening fire... My question would be, why would a man, who is a "average joe" and a former member of our military have an assault rifle in his hand after the police have announced themselves... Seems weird to me, because reason would dictate that a man in that position would not be armed with any potential weapon that could get him killed... Just my personal thoughts on the subject

[John]

The "announced themselves" for precisely five seconds before charging through the door. It is difficult to imagine someone on the other end of that onslaught actually knowing it is the police and not thinking they are under attack.

2. The warrant may have been "legal" but that doesn't make the tactics right or smart. And we don't know that the warrant was legal or what the circumstances were since all of the documents have been sealed.

3. He owned a legal weapon. So what? So do a lot of people. Maybe the presence of weapons and the chance of a mistaken shoot are good reasons not to charge in and give the guy chance to come out or as Rather points out, serve the warrant when no one was there?

The problem is these raids and the tactics used. It is absolutely insanity to kick people's doors and charge in armed to to teeth with little or no warning. That gets people killed.

[Wind Rider]

^^this. Just because a series of galactically bad policies and procedures results in a irrevocably bad application of needless, over-the-top tactics but has a semblence of sanity by using an otherwise 'normal' instrument, a search warrant, this in NO way makes this kind of idiocy either 'legal' or 'right'.

This is a cancer infecting our nation.

[PotSmokingWeirdoRant]

One of the worst by-products of this type of militarized-police SWAT raid is that it becomes the normal face of law enforcement in this country: ## tanks in the streets with heavily armed agents close behind -- with the DHS, ATF and the DOJ providing legal cover for all of it ##. I used to see the reports of tanks and heavily-armed military and law-enforcement personnel in the streets of eastern European, Asian and African countries and would think, I'm glad I live in America. But now, look around (what's that sound).

.....to think the Patriot act was renewed, so all such raids can excused in the name of "public safety."

Above all, citizens, remember Bush is gone, this has become Obama's world now.

"...you're pushin' to hard on me....all I want is to just be free...live my life like I want to be...all I want is to just have fun...live my life like it's just begun..." seeds. hey, those days are gone, gone, gone, my friends -- the nanny-state oppressors have taken over -- there is no place for freedom in the new world.

[CameraWieldingWierdoRant]

"No you can't take pictures of it either." !!! slam to the ground, smash camera, arrest for obstruction, spend night in holding tank.....!!!

[Rock Action]

Disregarding your weirdness, which struck me as sane, I dug the Seeds reference. Put the song in my head.

[Bill]

And he renewed the Patriot Act using Autosign while he's in Europe. Par for the course I guess.

[fish]

Anybody check to see if the auto pen is a "natural born citizen"?

[rather]

I agree if you lived in a gated neighborhood, the police passed through your paid security, and ergo vetted. They lived in an area with home invasions, and I believe one of the tactics to gain entry is to yell 'police'.

I'd make them prove it too

[John]

What is funny is one of the "crimes" the police union lawyer is accusing him of is doing home invasions impersonating police. Yet, they think he should have magically known they were police just because they said so.

[kbolino]

1. Until demonstrated otherwise, as far as we know, the occupants of the house had no history of violence. Thus there was no reason for the SWAT team to serve this warrant; two officers in regular uniform could have knocked on the door and served the warrant to the homeowner.

2. It is perfectly legal to possess and carry a firearm in your own home. The government has no right to deprive you of that firearm, so it certainly has no right to kill you for it.

3. According to the available information, the neighborhood in which the Guerenas lived was dangerous (this is probably the real reason the SWAT team was sent). The fact that Mr. Guerena was asleep and acted instinctively to defend himself does not incriminate him.

Your "personal thoughts on the matter" seem to indicate a utopian view of the world, where it is perfectly safe for a person to assume that nothing bad will ever happen.

That Mr. Guerena took what action may have been necessary to defend himself and his family from attackers, and then was promptly and brutally gunned down by the police, is an horrendous miscarriage of justice at best, and outright murder at worst.

Your attempt to slander Mr. Guerena's character is pathetic, and your failure to realize that not everyone can live in quiet upscale neighborhoods is elitism of the highest form.

[Mensan]

Adding to kbolino's 3rd point: two of Guerena's relatives were murdered, and a thrid one (a 3-year-old girl) was shot in a home invasion last year. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the first thing that came to his mind when his wife woke him up to tell him there was a man with a gun outside the window and someone was trying to break down the door.

[Solanum]

Concern troll is concerned.

[KW6]

"why would a man, who is a "average joe" and a former member of our military have an assault rifle in his hand after the police have announced themselves"

Because A), he had a relative killed in a home invasion, B), ANYONE can shout "Police!" and sirens can be bought for $20 on Ebay, and C), because he was a MARINE, and they defend their families with rifles, especially when they can't think of any reason that real cops would be breaking down the front door.

[Old Soldier]

D) He didn't hae time to actually get to the door and see who was yelling "Police".

E) They weren't wearing police uniforms.

[emilyaaa]

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[Res Publica Americana]

The perpetrators deserve first-degree murder convictions and subsequent execution by firing squad. Where are all those supposedly decent judges and police officers that are "THE MAJORITY OF COPS, WE ASSURE YOU"?

Fucking animals. If there's a hell, I hope they burn in its darkest depths.

[Colonel_Angus]

71 rounds with an automatic weapon, starting at the feet and moving up.

[Cheeseburger]

While I normally support the death penalty, 30 years in gen pop of the state pen, with no special protections for being ex cops, would be a better punishment. Let them learn that they aren't the biggest and baddest MF's in the land.

[Res Publica Americana]

That's also a great option, yeah. And I'm not kidding here. Find some of those genuinely heartless, murderous sacks of horseshit you often seem to get nowadays, and stick them into the general population of a rough prison. I agree. By the time they got out, they'd be called Krystal and Betsy.

[Truthteller]

We live in an increasingly police state where facists initimate and kill us at their whim. Our constitutional rights are extinct thanks to our current U.S. Supreme Court and this will only get worse w/the return of so many combat veterans from the middle east. The biggest problem isn't the S.W.A.T. team that killed Guerena; it's the prosecutors and judges in our law enforcement system that are completely immune from the consequences of their actions. They answer to no one. The facts of this case will show this to be nothing but murder by law enforcement and I gurantee you that nobody other than the dead soldier will pay a price. Welcome home Guerena. Thanks for your service to our country. Here's 21 rounds pumped into your body as our gesture of thanks. USA! USA! USA!

[Angus MacAskill]

What America needs right now is a remake of First Blood.

[Sickhaus]

I read another article that claimed the initial reports of him getting hit 60 times were inaccurate, and that it was around 20.

I remember initial commenters amazed at their unusual accuracy...

[Mensan]

Doesn't that make it worse? 71 rounds fired at a stationary target at close range, and they only got 22 hits. Those amateurs were just panic shooting without even aiming.

[Sickhaus]

Ah Truth mentioned this above

[bendover]

I far as I can tell - it was 46 seconds from the time the SWAT team arrived till you had a dead body on the floor. Well played.

[Joe M]

Technically, it took him over an hour to die. During that hour, of course, they made sure he couldn't get medical attention.

[herve villechaize]

The main problem with LE is not the judges or laws but the caliber of the individuals who become officers. I was always deferential to the police until I had the unfortunate experience of working in an agency that dealt with regional precincts of a major city on a daily basis. Listening to them talk about beating and setting people up, adding baseless charges, laughing about how they could do or say whatever they wanted, etc. changed my opinion. I could go on for hours about the shit I heard and dealt with. For those who say: "There is good and bad in all professions.," I say: "Have you ever met any cops? Spend an hour with some and get back to me." LE may have always attracted dickheads, but they are more dangerous today than in the past because of the wannabe military culture that pervades the profession. To put people lacking intelligence, character, and training in a position to kill you is not a good idea.

[IceTrey]

Where I live it's the State Patrols absolute policy that they will not hire anyone with an IQ over 100. Now 100 is average, but just the idea they don't want smarter people is disturbing.

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

When I'm not posting Golden Girls links or following up Weigel references, my other H&R hobby is posting this quote on LEO threads, for those of you considering Christianity. Read the above, read this, and make your own decision.

This is why SWAT teams will always have GOP support no matter what.

Romans 13 (NIV)
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

[sloopyinca]

Johnny: If anybody is dumb enough to base their faith on the (assumed) writings of Paul, as opposed to the words of Jesus Himself, then they deserve to live under the thumb of the state.

Paul was hardly ordained by God to write His commandments to man. And that "Render unto Caesar" quote has often been mis-read to mean submit, when it really says to treat the state as a government and God as God and do not conflate the two.

[Born-Again Barack]

You're preaching to the choir here, johnny. These raids have my unconditional support -- in the name of both Jesus and Kaiser.

[pmains]

Huperecho exousia translates to 'higher authority' or 'higher power' rather than governing authority. To assume it means anyone with a badge is a nonsensical interpretation that doesn't fit the larger context of the point that Paul is making.

[Jo Wills]

Stuff like this makes me rejoice everytime some stupid cop gets clipped in the line of duty!

http://www.real-privacy.int.tc

[P Brooks]

Mike Storie, the union lawyer, alleges that Jose Guerena had been previously arrested in Pima County, along with several others, and that "drugs and weapons were found." He writes that Guerena was never charged because he "flipped on a higher-up."

In addition to the immediate assumption the union scumbags' scumbag lawyer is attempting to slander a dead man, I have to ask this: IF that were true, wouldn't the cops have approached Guereno on the sly and tried to get him to do it again?

Either way, this claim stinks, and it would be nice to think Storie could be disbarred for egregiously attempting to poison the well. I'll hold my breath.

And another thing; this "weapons were found" bullshit has gotten to really piss me off. When the feds did their orchestrated show of force against medical marijuana growers in Montana, all the news reports faithfully stated, "weapons were found".

Up here, weapons can probably be "found" in about 85% of homes and businesses. If you randomly searched the homes of a thousand people who voted for Obama in the last election, the percentage would probably be 75%. However, if you work for the Associated Press, "weapons were found" is as much of a GUILTY flag as saying the suspect was found nearby, wandering the street drenched with blood, gnawing on the victim's heart.

[P Brooks]

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.

If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

OBEY

[MNG]

To me none of the information about what drugs and firearms were found in house AFTER the raid means squat, and his 'prior record' strikes me as a less than important point. The police suspect people, they have not been proven guilty. Even if they were 100% guilty, we, as a civilized nation, do not do summary execution by police. The priority of our 'peacekeepers' should be that, to enforce the law while keeping the peace. Ramming down a door and shooting 71 shots at someone is something that should be avoided at great pains.

I don't think the posession of drugs warrants such an approach, the WOD is a tragedy for the most part. But even if one were to assume the war on drugs is such a serious matter there would still be a duty on the police to enforce the law in a reasonable and less deadly and heavy handed way.

I have to point out that the SCOTUS in the recent Hudson v. Michigan case helped green light these kinds of raids. The majority there was written by Scalia, joined by Thomas, Roberts, Alito and Kennedy (in concurrence). The dissent, written by Breyer joined by Ginsburg, Souter and Stevens had it right:

"Today's opinion holds that evidence seized from a home following a violation of this requirement need not be suppressed. As a result, the Court destroys the strongest legal incentive to comply with the Constitution's knock-and-announce requirement. And the Court does so without significant support in precedent."

[herve villechaize]

At one time, as a response to Hudson V. Michigan, I'd have suggested that a law needs to be passed to hold the cops criminally liable for illegal entry, as a deterent to these actions. But the reality is that it wouldn't matter. The law is irrelevent to those who consider themselves above it, as cops do. The low caliber of individuals who aspire to the force is the main problem.

[cynical]

"Even if they were 100% guilty, we, as a civilized nation, do not do summary execution by police."

You forgot to tell the police that.

[P Brooks]

The low caliber of individuals who aspire to the force Supreme Court is the main problem.

[herve villechaize]

...yes, that too.

[say Green]

Well I am Agree with the law and enforcement agencies to control the current situation, But will strongly recommend if the action is only taken after complete reports and evidence, Most of the time, We dont catch the actual Reason of crime.

[CharlesWT]

Editor's Note: Body-worn video cameras present some outstanding tactical advantages for police officers. They consistently enable law enforcers to prove wrongdoing on the part of a violator, and frequently clear up wildly inaccurate assumptions by the media and the public about officer's actions. However, the use of helmet cameras in SWAT operations can potentially have several negative consequences. First and foremost, once those videos get out into the public ? and they are as discoverable at trial as every other element of the department's communications and records ? the bad guys can use them to observe police tactics. And in some rare cases, such video could lead to civil lawsuits down the road. Do SWAT teams need helmet cams? Do the many benefits outweigh the occasional risks?
Video: Helmet cam captures deadly SWAT raid: Ariz. department releases video of drug raid that left former marine Jose Guerena dead

[Osama-video-rapted Obama]

....we lost the video feed which showed our effort to capture rather than kill.......

[dunphy]

i just discussed this incident with some SWAT guys on my dept. in brief, the consensus was -... their tactics SUCKED. no surprise there. it's been pretty obvious since the video was released.

these guys train a lot, and i've trained with them on several occasions, used their live fire house, and been on several raids with them (mostly when i worked street crimes unit).

i've never heard them be so fiercely critical of ANY such incident, like they were of this one

it was kind of obvious since the video was released, but it's good to know that the guys who do this shit for a living agree - poor tactics.

[cynical]

At what point do "poor tactics" become sufficiently negligent that criminal charges are warranted (let's assume we lived in the sort of society that regularly punished police for criminal behavior)?

[dunphy]

we live in a society that regularly brings cops to trial for criminal behavior. heck, i personally work with many cops who have been criminally charged, and at least a half dozen (that i know of) have received criminal convictions of various sorts.

so, setting aside your false assumption ... which also needs to take into account that JURIES decide if people are guilty. that's equally true of cops and others. in cases, like the Diallo case, you can whinge all you want, but a JURY found them not guilty. they were brought to trial. the MOST the state can do is bring before a grand jury (in states that have them. my state doesn't(generally) but i digress) GIVEN probable cause, and if true billed, to prosecute.

i have seen no evidence that prosecutors, not to mention the feds... when there are federal violations ... are unwilling to prosecute cops. in fact, ime, the FBI LOVE to investigate cops.

setting that aside, i can't speak for arizona law, but GENERALLY speaking most states have manslaughter laws that allow charging if criminal negligence is met...

this wikipedia article is actually pretty good in defining what criminal negligence is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_negligence

among other things, what would be key would be ... did the SWAT guys in this case deviate significantly from their training when executing this raid.

if they did not deviate significantly, BUT the PCSD's training was found to be grossly deficient in relation to national standards and accepted practices, that would at least open up a big ass lawsuit, but to prosecute individual deputies, you would need to show that they acted with criminal negligence.

MOST big ass lawsuits i see are where the dept. fails to train. heck, my dept (mostly due to budget issues) imo is just a lawsuit waiting to happen in all sorts of areas, since our training is now so minimal (again, due to budget cuts etc.). i'm not the only officer to think so. it's actually been a running topic of discussion in roll calls, and on facebook (and the dept. keeps trying to scare officers into not using facebook by bringing up cases of officers disciplined for comments made on facebook. they don't like the 1st amendment, that's clear. )

if the officers acted in accord with their training, there would certainly not be criminal negligence.

as people train, so they perform in real life. this was made most clear by the newhall shooting. in brief, at that point, firearms training was woefully insufficient. for example, officers after shooting their gun empty always were allowed to reach down and recover their brass immediately.

in the newhall shooting, a dead officer (can't recall if it was one or more than one) was actually found with empty brass IN HIS POCKET. iow, in the middle of an intense firefight, he had reached down and recovered his spent brass...

**think about that, for a second

that's how important training is.

also, officers carried .357 but TRAINED with .38 wadcutters. why? again - let's save money. the fact that the recoil/dynamics of shooting a completely different round means one should ALWAYS train with one's duty - wasn't even considered. bean counters wanted to save money. and officers died. VERYtypical. it took that shooting to get cop-o-crats to change the training. they listen to the bean counters LONG before they listen to those who actually know what they are talking about.

anyway, the prosecutors will need to, among other things, compare what the officers DID (and what they can prove they did, more specifically) vs. standards of training. that's where their individual negligence could be established

[dunphy]

actually, to clarify... since the officer with the spent brass in his pocket was using a revolver, he probably emptied the brass into his hand and then put it in his pocket, not picked it up from the ground, like you'd do with a semi.

either way, it's insane, but just to clarify...

[Fist of Etiquette]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but this point is key to me. The introduction of SWAT into otherwise peaceful situations is a policy that should be reviewed by all departments. I doubt it will, even with giant civil damages being awarded. (No one, not just police, likes the hassle of reviewing and revising internal policy.) I would like to see "bean counters" start to inform departments they can no longer afford to continue to use SWAT for issuing warrants unless the situation is already violent.

The problem with my scenario, the trouble with having SWAT at the ready at all, even for solely hostage type situations, is they have to train. And if you're going to pay for regular training, the urge is to use them regularly as well. That's something that would have to be overcome.

In this situation, the officers emptied their weapons in a home occupied by a 4-year-old child. If your team is going to be creating violence where none exists, you should not go into it as casually as Pima County SWAT apparently did.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Excellent point, FoE. Seems to be a bit of mission creep with S.W.A.T. in a lot of departments.

[dunphy]

definitely, there is. swat, like all govt's and govt. agencies tries to increase its power, scope and justify expansion/more frequent use.

in our agency, at one point they convinced the cop-o-crat admin that they were NEEDED for ALL drug warrants.

we fought it, but they had the ear of the admin. after all, they were SWAT. they must know what they were talking about

(rolls eyes)

[artistknownasdunphy]

definitely. at one point SWAT managed to convince the cop-o-crats, that they were needed for ALL drug warrants. we protested. but the admin listened to SWAT, because they MUST know what they are talking about

lol

all govt. and govt. agencies tend to try to increase their budget, scope, and perceived necessity/span of control

SWAT is no different

[jacob]

SWAT is based off of military tactics and military goals - kill the enemy, protect our borders at all costs.

The goal of civilian law enforcement should be that deadly force is the last resort, and all attempts should be made to keep the peace.

[dunphy]

of course, as usual, the selection bias etc. creeps in. nobody reports on the raids that go successfully, or that SWAT was invented, and when used properly (which is usually), can save lives - both suspect, officers, and others.

the fact that SWAT exists is a very good thing. SWAT is a useful tool, and should be retained.

as usual, the problems are systemic, in that SWAT tends to justify its existence (like any govt. or subset thereof) by growing and thus tending to want to be used where they are NOT necessary.

it's a cost/benefit analysis thing. SWAT is like a felony stop. WHERE justified, it absolutely should be used. but it shouldn't be used at every traffic stop (obviously), just like SWAT should not be used at every warrant.

i can guarantee, though, *if* i wrote a warrant to serve on a home invasion robbery suspect- yes, my dept. would mandate SWAT under our risk matrix.

i've seen situations where SWAT should have been used... and wasn't ... and deaths resulted that may not have if SWAT had been used.

again, it's difficult to measure the lives SAVED, because just like defensive uses of firearms where no rounds are fired, it's impossible to prove what would have happened if the citizen had NOT had their gun out.

i'm reminded of one case where our chief (my old agency) refused to call in SWAT and wanted more negotiation when it clearly was going south, and the suspect proceeded to literally nearly saw off the head of his hostage and dump her in the hall! (the media doesn't tell the gory details... just "24 stab wounds"

http://archives.starbulletin.c.....ory10.html

then, he goes... hmm... maybe it's time for SWAT!

[arrtistknownasdunphy]

articles will never be written about successful swat raids (at least not here), or how many times they prevent loss of life, etc. when used properly.

i recall THIS case... where we BEGGED our admin to send in SWAT because Kosi was going to kill the hostage. they declined and wanted to negotiate further

what the newspaper doesn't give - is the gory details. he literally sawed through her neck with a knife, basically decapitating her, then laughed as he rolled her body in to the hall

we should'a used SWAT

http://archives.starbulletin.c.....ory10.html

[Fist of Etiquette]

articles will never be written about successful swat raids (at least not here), or how many times they prevent loss of life, etc. when used properly.

Personally, I'm not dissing SWAT in general. But I can think of no situation where a successful warrant-serving raid saved lives that weren't put in danger by the raid itself. Can you cite any?

The situation you cite is something SWAT could credibly be claimed as necessary. Violence was already precent. In stark contrast, the Guerena raid was a peaceful situation - there are few places more peaceful than an man's house where his wife and child are being quiet because he's home from shift work - and the police introduced the violence. Setting aside the reckless panic fire during the invasion or whether the subject was really part of whatever crime was actually being investigated, that is my problem with SWAT being used in this way. They put themselves in the position of being the first and primary aggressors.

[artistknownasdunphy]

assuming arguendo, there was not PC to believe that Guerana was part of a violent home invasion ring, etc. ... i agree.

since the affidavit hasn't been released... i have no idea

PERSONALLY, i don't think SWAT should be used in the WOD, but then i don't think there should BE a WODrugs.

however, given the WOD, a situation entirely the fault of legislators... NOT cops, there ARE drug warrants where SWAT is justified, but hardly all of them

that's why i, as my anti-crime team sgt. fought the new policy that REQUIRED SWAT FOR ALL DRUG WARRANTS, that was of course instigated by the SWAT commander, who didn't know what the fuck he was talking about

SWAT is an excellent tool, that saves lives and property often - when properly used, helps defuse volatile situations, takes people out when they need to be taken out, etc. with less risk to officers and the public etc

when misused, otoh... they are a liability

[artistknownasdunphy]

oh, as to citing some, again it's hard to prove what would have happened if SWAT wouldn't have been used, just like it hard to PROVE a defensive gun use by a civilian saved a life. but you acn make assumptions...

however, in the case of the Kosi raid i linked to, i have zero doubt he would have killed the 2nd hostage after he killed the 1st if SWAT wasn't used immediately after he killed the 1st

however, if SWAT was used BEFORE he killed the 1st (as we were pleading to the cop-o-crats, since we knew damn well he was a murderous evil fuckstick), the 1st would not have been killed EITHER, but since she wasn't, you wouldn't see it as a situation where they saved her life

do you grok the point?

[Fist of Etiquette]

however, if SWAT was used BEFORE he killed the 1st

I'm not arguing that point. As I said, that seems like a situation for which SWAT was originally conceived.

I was trying to get a credible example or possible scenario where having SWAT serving warrants saved or could save lives, but it seems as though you agree that using SWAT to serve warrants is bad policy.

[R C Dean]

we live in a society that regularly brings cops to trial for criminal behavior.

"Regularly" is not the same as "every time its justified", and certainly not inconsistent with "not often enough".

Given what we know now, I would say the cops involved in this raid should probably be brought up on negligent homicide charges. Certainly, the ones responsible for keeping medical help out for over an hour should be. There is no excuse for that.

If you aren't willing to risk your life, you shouldn't be a cop. That includes risking your life to save a suspect, not just innocent bystanders.

Every single cop on that raid should be fired. Period. Full stop. No exceptions. I don't care how bad their intelligence was, how valid their warrant was, what we know now shows that not one of them, not a single fucking one, should be a cop.

[artistknownasdunphy]

we can disagree on when it's justified. imo, i see insufficient evidence to charge criminally based on what we know AT THIS POINT.

i am more than willing to risk my life to save a suspect, have done so, and have been cited for bravery for doing so. so spare me the lecture. i know many many cops who have done the same

these, of course, almost never make the paper, vs. when we shoot people. see: selection bias

i disagree that every cop on that raid should be fired. i want to know, as ANY actual attorney interested in facts would when suing, WHAT WAS THEIR STANDARD of training, and did they act in accord with it in this raid?

*if* they did, they certainly should not be fired for their tactics.

as to whether they were justified in shooting, i have no idea, nor do you.

what was on the other side of that door is critical, and i don't know, nor do you

[TrickyVic]

""I would say the cops involved in this raid should probably be brought up on negligent homicide charges.""

Even if they were, all you need is one, cops can do no wrong, on the jury and you have no conviction.

Dunphy is right. I've seen it time and time again in NYC. It's up to the juries and for whatever reason, it's rare for them to get convicted.

""Every single cop on that raid should be fired. Period. Full stop. No exceptions."""

Why would a superior fire those who do their bidding?

[fish]

They were probably worried that this guy might be an Opthamologist! They're fucking killing machines!

[TeamBarstool]

Todays local coverage

[Rock Action]

This story has reeked all around. I'm waiting for all the information. Whether we'll ever get it is another issue entirely.

[jacob]

Thanks for the post. I read it. I guess it's objective. It did mention Guerena was a marine and had no criminal record. It also noted that there were no drugs or cash seized from his house. I didn't like that it failed to mention that medical personnel did not attend to Guerena for close to an hour.

[P Brooks]

Thank goodness that preening jackbooted narcissist dunphy stopped by to explain things to us.

[rather]

Come on, he is REASONable

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

Drink!!!

[rather]

J[o]h[nn]y, arte you suggesting I wrote 'REASONable' on
purpose? Be 'REASONable' for CS.

[artistknownasdunphy]

cmon, you can do better than THAT!

[CasualPasserBy]

I want to know why, on the 911 recording made public, you can't hear the officers on the PA outside pleading for everyone to come out like they claimed. Remember, their attorney said it's not a big house, she should have been able to hear officers yelling prior to the breach, so obviously a PA system should be even more audible inside the dwelling. 5 minutes of evidence there that they are lying.

[Tasha Rhodes]

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/20.....cson-info/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded

What ? An Oath Keepers muster. Oath Keepers and friends will muster and march to the home of Mrs. Vanessa Guerena for a ceremony of memoriam for her late husband Jose Guerena, a U.S. Marine Corps veteran of the Iraq war.

When ? 8:00 a.m. sharp Monday morning Memorial Day, May 30, 2011

Where - The intersection of West Valencia Road and South Wade Road. Take I-10 to I-19 South and exit West Valencia Road to South Wade Road, Tucson, Arizona. See below.

Who - Oath Keepers is calling for all veterans, National Guardsmen, active duty military, current-serving peace officers, firefighters, retired public servants, gun owners, veterans organizations, civic organizations, church groups, student groups, and other patriotic Americans.

Oath Keepers will muster at 8:00 a.m. on the morning of Memorial Day, May 30, 2011, and will march at 8:30 a.m. to the home of Vanessa Guerena, the widow of Jose Guerena. Our procession will not permit late-comers to join after we begin the march, so make sure to be on time. Come early. Our march will begin at our rally point which is less than one mile from the Guerena home.

Our muster will be at the intersection of West Valencia Road and South Wade Road. Out of town marchers can find West Valencia Road by exiting Interstate I-19 just south of Interstate I-10 at the exit for West Valencia Road.

Upon arrival at the intersection of West Valencia Road and South Wade Road, please park on the South side of Valencia. We would like to ask all drivers to park by backing in, instead of parallel parking, so as to reduce the length of parked cars. Thank you for remembering to do that.

Oath Keepers will not permit the carrying or displaying of signs during our march and memorial service.

[CasualPasserBy]

I also think they should release the footage from the other helmet cams. You can plainly see a helmet cam on one of the team members that was at/inside the door.

[Obama the Osama Killer]

Clearly, it's a fact that video cams go dark at critical moments.

[CasualPasserBy]

I also think the final shot taken, at second #51, needs to be explained as it's a full TWO SECONDS after the end of the barrage during which the subject was hit at least 21 times and fell to the floor.

Was that final shot a coupdegrace to the head of the subject as he lay on the floor?

[Cheeseburger]

That officer thought he saw a puppy.

[Solanum]

Somewhat OT-

Trooper tases motorist for refusing breath test; motorist sues

[Don]

All five cops should eat their guns...put them in their mouths and pull the triggers. They killed an innocent man for no other reason than to get their macho rocks off.

SWAT teams are populated by steroid using animals and are by and large no better than the people they hunt down and kill in cold blood.

They are a discredit law enforcement.

[Mensan]

Don't blame steroids. There is no such thing as roid rage; some people are just assholes.

[ben]

What you don't believe in hormones?

[John C. Randolph]

These cops murdered a guy, lied about it, and will suffer no consequences beyond some embarrassment in the press.

oooh, did get a new ?

-jcr

[hmm]

60 rounds, 22 on target.

Remember all, these guys are not experts or to be considered experts.

Next news headline: Pima County SWAT Deploying Newly Civilian Use JDAM Sytems, Federal Funding and Scrap Munitions at Hear of Program.

...Sheriff Fucktard said in the public announcement of this new program that it will "significantly reduce officer risk and casualty, we're gonna nukem from orbit"

[Mensan]

60 [71] rounds, 22 on [a large stationary] target [at close range].

ftfy

[TungTeller]

I am only saddened that the dude did not take out some cops with him!

http://www.real-privacy.tk

[Fist of Etiquette]

Dial it back, Anon.

[daveInAustin]

The story just got picked up by Wired magazine.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroo.....arine-vet/
It includes the testimony of the officers.

[deadiblinking]

Well, now we know why The U.S. can't win wars against peasants with AK47s in Afghanistan, Iraq etc. A MARINE, BooHar & all that, in his own home, armed, 2-tours of Occupation under his belt and he doesn't even get off ONE round against the fat thugs that broke into his family's home. A far better scenario, since the poor guy is dead, would have been that Jose blew away all of the invaders. Then, if his slate WAS clean, the MSM could beat it's chest about the issue. Alas, no (non-criminal) American citizen seems capable of actually shooting back at ze sturmentrupers!

[TrickyVic]

It's all about target ID. It's a guess, but I think he realized they were cops so he didn't take the safety off and pull the trigger, assuming it was loaded.

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[Teufel Hunden]

Osama Bin Laden is in Hell wearing a TUSCON SWAT T-shirt right now, and celebrating the murder of a Marine that his fellow Jihadists failed to kill.