Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him

"Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"

Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.

Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.

The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.

The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"

A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.

A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.

"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.

The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.

"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.

Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.

The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.

This is from Arizona Daily Star reporter Fernanda Echavarri's effort to piece together the death of Jose Guerena, 26, at the hands of a Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Guerena, who joined the Marines in 2002 and served two tours in Iraq, was killed just after 9  a.m. May 5. Guerera had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at a local mine when his home was invaded as part of a multi-house crackdown by sheriff's deputies.

Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by. Widow Vanessa Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office: 

 "When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."

The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.

"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.

The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.

Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.

Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.

Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes. 

The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler: 

A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.

Questions about the official story from Ghost32.


*UPDATE (5/20): Sheriffs: Slain Jose Guerena Linked to "Home-Invasion Crew"

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  • juris imprudent||

    If these assholes had paintball guns it would be a great comedy sketch.

    Real bullets? Not so funny.

  • Restoras||

    Exactly this.

    It is becoming clearer that "SWAT" teams are rank amatuers playing at commando to the detriment of us all.

    I walk through Grand Central Station twice a day and don't feel very safe when I see those over-weight, under-trained, and excessively equiped goons in uniform strutting about with sub-machine guns. Time to take their expensive toys away and send them back to thier desk jobs.

  • ||

    ""I walk through Grand Central Station twice a day and don't feel very safe when I see those over-weight, under-trained, and excessively equiped goons in uniform strutting about with sub-machine guns. ""

    Penn Station for me, and yeah, I feel less safe.

  • Andrew||

    Have you considered that making people feel less safe might be the intention behind the continued presence of these sort of "goon" squads?

  • Marine4Life||

    I was a Marine first, then SWAT for 5 years. I am a Marine Officer now serving on active duty and I can tell you one thing Restoras, although this is an absolutely unfortunate incident, but SWAT officers are some of the most well trained, professional individuals in the country. Until you are willing to get up off of your lazy ass and put your life on the line for strangers, shut the hell up! I was just as proud to be a SWAT officer for all of those years as I am to be a Marine Officer now and nothing that some ignorant reject like you could say would ever change that.

  • ||

    If they are so honorable, then they are willing to act like they have T*sticles and a brain and accept accountability for their actions. They aren't generally trained to consider being even remotely accountable for wrongdoing, and these are the results we get. Period.

  • NegligentDischarge||

    I'm not sure I'd consider this bunch well trained considering a negligent discharge from a SWAT team member lead to the murder of an innocent individual.

    60 rounds struck the Marine, that's seems like an unnecessary amount of rounds to take down one man, that makes it appear as though they all wanted in on the killing.

    You may have been SWAT, you may be a Marine, but for your own dignity and honor don't put yourself in the same category as these bozos.

  • teen4life||

    you are a myopic dumbass

  • neener||

    The above article shows that you are a liar.

  • BustedDoor||

    What if he really was holding the gun? What reason would he have to believe it was police busting in his house? If the police are raiding houses in the area, then one could figure this kid lived in a rough area. This would have me believe that he had no reason to suspect it was a police raid and not a robbery or the like. He was shot, for being woken up by loud banging and crashing and yelling, for grabbing a weapon to at least try to protect his family, and for being half asleep. I hope these cops are prosecuted. I pray that they don't flop this one on the kid for "pulling a high-powered rifle on a peace officer" and posthumously condemn him for it. If that's what happens, then that is the signifier of the beginning of the end, at which time I pack up and take my family to New Zealand

  • ||

    Let me tell you something Marine4Life, I am also a Marine. Several of my friends got out and immediately joined police departments in their areas, without fail EVERY one of them were teaching classes to the SWAT units in there areas within a year. SWAT units never train in the exhausting way front line warriors train, this leads them to make stupid mistakes like this garbage. When I was training for my first tour in Iraq I cleared rooms for at least 12 hours a day 3-4 days a week. This helped when I got to Fallujah and had to clear HUNDREDS of houses in a day. If I had screwed up once someone who shouldn't be dead could have died. The warrior mentality of front line combat troops has no place in a police department. Police officers need to remember they aren't warriors, they exist to serve the community. The raids on houses are unnecessary, they should be the very last resort.

  • ||

    Thank you for refuting Marine4life's absurd claims, and thank you for selflessly risking you life for us. Even if I don't agree with the wars being waged, I have tremendous respect for the soldiers who are willing to put themselves in the worst situations on earth. My heart breaks for this dead marine, father, and husband, as well as those survived by him. It is events like this that truly give the US a black eye, and which makes the public distrust and fear our local, state, and federal departments of justice. This could have been any one of us, laying in bed after a hard days work, only to be mistakenly gunned down by a bunch of novice lawmen.

  • justlifeeveryoneelse.||

    Well said, couldnt put it in any better terms

  • ||

    I agree with "justlifeeveryoneelse" - well said!!!

  • ||

    I agree - well said!!!

  • ||

    I highly agree. It's interesting to see how sad it is to have this guy serve his country, only to be killed in his own backyard.

  • ||

    Lessons Learned : If NO police announcement prior, NOT simultaneous, with the door crashing in, safety off, finger on trigger, FIRE.
    Let God and the Courts sort it out, homeowner is dead anyway.

  • GMC USN||

    Well put. Couldn't agree more

  • TruePatriot||

    You, my friend, are exactly what a marine should be. That moron 'marine4life' is exactly why most people nowadays have no respect for soldiers. If you wanna be a hero, sign up and stay over there, if you wanna be a gestapo youth, join your local SWAT team and kill some innocent citizens. Undertrained + Overarmed = Trouble...simple as that.

  • ||

    AMEN AlsoMarine! Very well said, and in my opinion this kinda story is intolerable. I too am a Marine and can only hope to hear all the facts (my first impression is he was defending his home) but reguardless, a combat vet is dead and I see the police can't tell a straight story?
    WTF!
    Semper-fidelis AlsoMarine, Marine4Life... I guess we all got our jobs to do and commonsense goes a long way. This is painfull to read this story and to both of you thanks for your service in these times.

  • ||

    Let me tell you something Marine4Life, I am also a Marine. Several of my friends got out and immediately joined police departments in their areas, without fail EVERY one of them were teaching classes to the SWAT units in there areas within a year. SWAT units never train in the exhausting way front line warriors train, this leads them to make stupid mistakes like this garbage. When I was training for my first tour in Iraq I cleared rooms for at least 12 hours a day 3-4 days a week. This helped when I got to Fallujah and had to clear HUNDREDS of houses in a day. If I had screwed up once someone who shouldn't be dead could have died. The warrior mentality of front line combat troops has no place in a police department. Police officers need to remember they aren't warriors, they exist to serve the community. The raids on houses are unnecessary, they should be the very last resort.

  • NegligentDischarge||

    No NDs for you, good man. Thank you for your service.

  • Someone0311||

    Good shit

  • sisterofanofficer||

    It is unfortunate that this has happend to this man and his family. But is it right that we call names to a man that has fought for his country and continues to fight for his country because we disagree with what he said about the SWAT unit....All departments are differant...as is all situations..stand back and take a look at the big picture...The United States is FAR from what it used to be...there isnt enough money for the proper training sometimes...the war on drugs, the war on murder, the war on theft...If anyone is to blamed in this situation it is our Government...My brother is a detective and is being paid less then myself and even makes less then some of the people who serve you drinks and food in a restaurant...Every day these men and women put their lives on the line for each and every one of us....and you want to judge them for a Higher ups mistake...May God have mercy on your soul!

  • cate||

    Just because he serves our country gives him the right to be antagonistic? (You're talking about marine4life in your first sentence right?) Because I don't care who you are or what you do, nobody anywhere ever is above criticism. Hiding behind that "they're serving our country" shield is bs. They deserve respect for what they do, but I have just as much a right as a human being to disagree with them or find fault as they do with me. That's called our first amendment right, which hasn't yet been wrenched from us.
    Fundamentally, the government is at fault. They are systematically destroying the constitution. So I agree with you there. But it's not just them. As AlsoMarine pointed out, it's their job to serve and protect. It's that archaic "respect authority" thinking that leads to this crap. If you don't question authority now, how will you question it when you've got a jackboot on your neck?

  • Carlie||

    Well Stated!! Anyone who tries to negate (cate) that is in for an educational earfull! Marine4life? wtf..over??? I want to know what college handed you somesort of degree to even be a Boot-lieuyy,
    Really should have thier credentials at arms length!
    Wow! I bet you are one of 'those' zerOs-?
    Nice house, nice car, dumb douchebag at the wheel with entitlement issues. Treating all as if they should salute the mere thought of u?!?'
    Ok, Sir...1 finger salute to you!!!
    Damn online colleges!!! Spitting out Americas finest one for 19.99 a month since 2000!

  • ||

    Sisterofanofficer, as an former Military Police officer and as an former policeman I agree no need for name calling even though he set it in motion which makes me question him as an Officer or a gentleman. However your fooling yourself if you really think a lack of funds to train is the reason that young man's life has come to an end. One shot one kill. they wasted more money firing off all those rounds at and into that young man. that was no more than carelessness and wanting to get in on the action. Every s.w.a.t. team member that discharged there weapon more than once should be brought upon criminal charges and band from carrying a weapon outside of there home for they are the so called "elite" of the force. We are trained at the basic levels to prevent something like this from taking place. What part of HONOR, SERVE, & PROTECT was that. America isn't what she use to be and maybe never be what she was all because we allow crap like this to happen. What was/is homeland security doing while this was/has taken place. Broader Patrol couldn't add to there task with wasting all that money to start another department. Who the hell is policing the police?

  • ||

    Spoken like a loose jarhead. Where did you go? Oh, a swat dude. The problem here and there is that you will do whatever your commander sez. sempre this-..i..

  • Someone||

    Yeah, accidents happen. Can't argue with that. But these guys made a huge mistake. I'm an infantry team leader in the Marines. I've been to Iraq and Afghanistan and you know when someone is shot. There is no mistaking it. These guys were quick on the tigger and don't deserve to be on this so called "elite" SWAT team.

  • Roach||

    Fuck you! Fuck your service! I hope you fucking die for making these statements. How can you defend these fucknuts? As a Marine, you should be ashamed. You disgust me. I hope you enjoyed watching your friends die so you could support the corporate interests of the Divided States of Embarrassment.

  • ||

    Hey Roach you got your name right....COCKROACH!

  • Someone||

    Who was that aimed at?

  • Someone||

    Leave if you're not satisfied. Its that easy.

  • ||

    When Americans do not like a place they don't leave, they bomb. :-)

  • ||

    spoken like a true American. Why, leave when you can kill everyone else

  • ||

    Crawl back under the refrigerator and find that roach motel I left there. Rent-free! Can't you smell that sweet aroma? Barring that, go find some third-world marxist toilet to haunt. Sounds like that would be more to your liking.

  • Archie||

    Completely unfounded but hilarious! Keep up the good work.

  • Archie||

    Completely unfounded but hilarious! Keep up the good work.

  • ||

    Go back under your rock, Roach.

  • ||

    Your just a sad waste of space.

  • sisterofanofficer||

    Roach really...do you find it satisfying to talk that way? You are the one who make this world what it is today...fighting, drugs, murder and theft...If you are or have served in the Military....you should really take a look in the mirror! Who are you and where do you come from...someone needs to smack your trash ass in the face for talking that way! REALLY!

  • ||

    I kind of wish you'd back-track to the comments that started this bickering. "Restoras" made a statement of his opinion regarding his personal first-hand observations. "Marine4life" turned it into a personal insult, and then told "Restoras",someone he's never met, who never met him, who wasn't making any kind of comment about the quality of "Marine4life's" character or standard of service...he told "Restoras" he was an "ignorant reject" for not getting up off his "lazy ass" to put his life on the line for his country, and that until he did "get up off his lazy ass," he should "shut the hell up."

    I maintain that it's people like "Marine4life" that ruin it all for the rest of us. He's a self-entitled ego-maniacal overly defensive ex-Marine with an anger management problem, and while it may be the result of PTSD caused by the service we'd all love to appreciate if he gave us a chance, his violently bullying attitude toward a total stranger's valid opinion on an obviously horrifically negligent mistake on the part of a SWAT team who most likely didn't have a single Marine among them makes it tough, very tough indeed. So how about you not take it personally, too? How about you take a minute to think through who you're trying to defend and why? Because "Marine4life" really doesn't deserve your goodwill, no matter what service he tendered, if he feels that service entitles him to blatantly bully a citizen whose rights, (free speech among them,) he supposedly volunteered to put his life on the line to protect.

  • ||

    Well said.

  • ||

    I see where your coming from with MARINE4LIFE's comment, and it bugs me when people say "UNTIL YOU SERVE YOUR COUNTRY".... if we all did, their'd be no other jobs. just military. but back to my point, Roach is No better than Marine4Life. I'm not backing Marine4Life, I'm Simply telling Roach that he doesnt deserve to Call himself an American if he talks to other Americans like they're some foreign Trash.

  • Carlie||

    AMEN!!!!

  • ||

    I thought you were against name calling. may God have mercy on those who don't practice what they preach.

  • ||

    WOOOOWWWWWW. really? disagree with what he said, but "i hope you enjoyed watching your friends die"???? this guy may be wrong about the SWAT team and his views may not be like yours, but he is fighting for your right to say all this back to him. not saying thats why we're in these international conflicts, but thats the military's job. and you're probably just against anything government related anyways. Sure, America is embarrasing its people but look at other places. i wish you lived in north vietnam where people live in famine and have no contact with the outside world. no internet. no cell phone. then, you can say what your... OH WAIT.. NO YOU COULDNT. or maybe you should live in mexico where the police force is partially corrupted by drug lords and cartels. maybe you should take a look around and ask yourself... COULD I REALLY SAY THIS IN ANOTHER COUNTRY and Not be prosecuted? As an American, YOU should be ashamed. YOU disgust Me. Fuckin Moron

  • ||

    American's armed forces don't fight for our rights in some other land that has nothing to do with what is going on right here. Please stop the lies to your self that we fought for our rights in these distant lands. America didn't even fight the war against Bin Laden for pay back for the 9-11 attack. It was/is done for money and power. I don't see America running over to China telling them what kind of weapons they can have or anywhere else that has the same if not more than we have. Defend our rights please. What about the rights of the young man that lost his life. where is the Soldiers, Marines, Seamen,or Airmen now? Whose going to give his wife her rights or his sons their rights. Wake up America your losing your rights while your off getting revenge, and minding other folks business in the so called third world.

  • ||

    Bullshit.....THere is no comparison between a swat moron and a MARINE and you my friend were never a Marine! The cops today are morons!

  • ok||

    Cops today are morons.... and many of the Marines just said they became cops, so i wouldn't think they're all morons. When crap happens it happens and it can be very very bad. We won't know the 100% story of why they started shooting, we weren't there, we don't know what really happen there. Sad this fellow Marine has to die like this.

  • ||

    We don't know what happened and we WON'T know what happened because the department will cover it up and that will be that. Sad that for the most part, there's no recourse for the victims of police mistakes...

  • Me||

    Unless the family gets a really good lawyer, then the officers involved (really, the city) are likely fucked.

    Think about that next time you complain about attorneys (not directed at anyone in particular).

  • ||

    That lawyer will charge what, 40 or 50%? Seems like a good reason to complain.

    Necessary predators, a lot of them.

  • ||

    Im speaking of those morons that barely graduated from high school and became cops not those that became police after a military career!!! Most cops today have attitudes and is exactly the reason few respect the badge.

  • sisterofanofficer||

    HDNKR....remember your thoughts about our "COPS" when your child is kidnapped, your sister is gang raped...your precious house has been broken into...you DONT YOU DARE PICK UP THAT PHONE AND CALL 911 AND ASK FOR HELP....My brother has been shot at, and his friends have been killed in the line of duty...serving and protecting here at home...YOU PEOPLE are judging all Cops because of few police officers......would your LAME ASS put your life on the line for $20,000 a year?

  • ||

    Cops by definition do not prevent crime, they respond to it. By the time they're involved the crime has already occurred. So remember, when seconds count, cops are only minutes away!

  • ||

    unless they are the criminals at the moment as the case is for this young wife and mother that did call 911. Bullshitcaller your right we didn't prevent the crime we responded to them 9 times out of 10 to late to catch the offender

  • ||

    I don't Judge All Cops. I Judge police officers who automatically give attitude to people they pull over in traffic, or ones who automatically judge people when they walk up to a domestic despute. I've Called the police because I was Beat Down by 3 guys, i told them where they were and met them there. And when i walked up, I WAS PUT IN HAND CUFFS... those are the Police Officers I will Gladly Judge. Then There are the Police that remind me why I call when i have issues. They are the ones who approach people professionally. and actually serve. I'm With You as far as HDKR's comment, but not all police officers, nor Marines are worthy of the patch they have on their Sleeve.

  • canuck||

    Semper Fi!

  • ||

    You had military training also these guys fired before assessing the situation. You might be proud of both sides of your service but think about it, did you ever fire at an unarmed person because you THOUGHT they might have shot at you? Probably not. These "elite", and I use the word vaguely, should not be in their jobs if they can't do it right. And how do you explain the refusal of medical attention? My dad used to be a correctional officer and you know what they were told, shoot to disable but make sure he dies, because a dead man can't sue.

  • ||

    so you enjoy dressing up and taking orders. nothing like a repressed homosexual with a gun.

  • tyler||

    Wow, random anti-gay comment. Cool.

  • ||

    God is anti-gay in the bible and that book the muslims read whatever its called. (no disrespect intended to the gays or the muslims)But how did gays get pulled into this

  • ||

    Let's see, religious AND uncultured. Yeap, we can pretty safely ignore your opinions from now on. And I agree with the above poster that most cops are just repressed homosexuals with guns. Nothing anti-gay about that, it's just sad that so many law-enforcement officials are trapped in the closet and men like this poor marine end up getting shot for it. America sucks.

  • ||

    Where did all these 12 year old's come from? Go outside and play in the street.

  • Jasper||

    Ohhh snap!

  • Jasper||

    Ohhh snap!

  • ||

    Nothing Like a man calling another man gay for defending everyones right to talk shit.

  • ||

    go to h*ll

  • ||

    Hey jarhead grow a brain, did you even look at the evidence. It's idiots like you that will be leading people to the fema camps because you are a gutless NWO man. There are Oath Keepers that will blow your worthless ass away!

  • ||

    Your military/'swat' ego clearly gets in the way of whats right and wrong. This is just plain wrong. Horrible intelligence, horrible follow through and an absolute disregard for human life. Screw you and all those responsible for the death of an innocent man.

  • ||

    are all marines just stupid stone killers like you? nobody put their life on the line in this story, but they did snuff out an innocent life. i'm guessing you're a coward who would run from a fair fight.

  • ||

    "..SWAT officers are some of the most well trained, professional individuals in the country."

    Not a lot of evidence for that statement here, Marine4Life. In fact, these highly trained SWAT guys fumbled the entry and blew away one of your brothers. They let him bleed out on the ground in front of his family. They didn't even have an EMT on standby, but went into several residences weapons hot. What if one of their own had been shot? Dude, they did wrong just about everything they could possibly have done wrong, right down to not even knowing that Guerena's wife and youngest son would be home, and fired over 70 rounds into the house. "We didn't expect them to be there," they said. Doesn't sound like much of an investigation.

    But this isn't really about someone being "..willing to get up off of [his] lazy ass and put [his] life on the line for strangers.." is it? It's about the increasing frequency of police actions, and worse, OVER-reactions, to situations where time and again the public bears the brunt of the impact. It happens so frequently, and always the excuses are the same, as is the bungling and inept attempts to cover things up, or at the very least rationalize things away and deny accountability.

    Presumably, Marine4Life, you are a marine for life. My friends who have served as marines evoke this same sentiment. They would give their lives for their brother marines. Guerena served TWO tours in Iraq. I imagine he'd express the same loyalty as well.

  • ||

    Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for not being like everyone else on this thread using hate to try to get a point across.

  • ||

    your awesome. i would mark this as the best comment on the WHOLE thread

  • ||

    your awesome. i would mark this as the best comment on the WHOLE thread

  • ||

    your awesome. i would mark this as the best comment on the WHOLE thread

  • Alex||

    "some ignorant reject like you"
    I feel way less safe knowing what the protectors of the world truly feel about us reject civilians.

  • ||

    This is my concern exactly, and I see it more and more with young recruits. There is a total disdain for the citizens of the country our service men and women are supposed to be protecting. Simply telling someone to get off his lazy ass because he's not a marine is evidence of that attitude. When your mentality is that citizens are lazy and worthless, then it becomes much easier for tragedies like this one to occur. I do have to admit, though, that I'm surprised marine4life wouldn't be a little more outraged at the senseless death of a fellow marine whose only crime so far appears to have been being hispanic in Arizona.

  • ||

    haha if everyone got off their lazy ass to go be a Marine, No one would Check them into Hotels, or Sell them Clothes, or Serve them at Cafe's or Bars. well put

  • ||

    The only thing I've ever seen from SWAT is undertrained, overfed, trigger happy bullies, ready to obey an illegal order and then lie about it, if only they get a chance to kill someone. I've witnessed several killings like this.

  • ||

    Somehow I doubt you were either, or you would be aware that shooting needlessly is the act of a man who has not been trained properly. It is the act of a man with a cowards mentality and that man has no place behind the trigger of a gun. SWAT team officers SHOULD be the most well trained people available for the job truth is they usually aren't, at least not anymore.

  • ||

    Your rude brainwashed responce to Andrews reaction to this horrid mistake is a clear indication that you "goons only understand violence and do not have the capability to react without shooting someone. If just one of the idiots in the SWAT had researched the current residents of that house before the raid it could have all been avoided. Obviously they did not have enough training. "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
    Thomas Jefferson

  • brando||

    Yeah, as soon as you monsters started gloated about killing Marines, you lost your chance to complain about a "rude" response.

    Here's the quote that you people need to think very hard about.

    "I hope you enjoyed watching your friends die"

    "Fuck you! Fuck your service! I hope you fucking die"

    I'm also a Marine. Do you also hope that I "fucking die"? You people need to stop for a moment and think. Be good.

  • ||

    I'm sorry, but what have you done to earn my respect? Fighting armed innocents in some other country that never attacked us in the first place doesn't count. And don't give me this "fight them over there to bring democracy blah blah" garbage, we both know you don't really believe in that crap, you're just in it for the comfy GI Bill pension.

  • ||

    "comfy" Ha. Even though you're a horror of a human being, I still don't wish you killed. The good news is that I'll forgive you if you repent. You have to make it good though.

  • ||

    That's BS! Swat teams and most other police units are nothing but a damn bunch of Nazis, using Gestapo tactics and ignoring the rights of law abiding citizens. Don't you EVER defend these murderers and their actions!

  • ed||

    Well trained? In what? Saying ooooooops

  • munky||

    Wannabe veteran troll is obvious...

    But running with the benefit of the doubt - look, if your SWAT guys really are 'some of the most well trained, professional individuals in the country', can you honestly tell me why it seems as though these sorts of tragedies are happening day in and day out?
    Of course, not all the victims are white veterans, which makes them invisible and the story less newsworthy, but still, I thought the USA helped win a war against the sort of state which mandates armed paramilitaries to keep the population cowed and in fear of authority..?

  • munky||

    Wannabe veteran troll is obvious...

    But running with the benefit of the doubt - look, if your SWAT guys really are 'some of the most well trained, professional individuals in the country', can you honestly tell me why it seems as though these sorts of tragedies are happening day in and day out?
    Of course, not all the victims are white veterans, which makes them invisible and the story less newsworthy, but still, I thought the USA helped win a war against the sort of state which mandates armed paramilitaries to keep the population cowed and in fear of authority..?

  • brando||

    That's racist.

  • ||

    Not really, but it's clear now that you are.

  • ||

    Not really, but your whole family is.

    I actually know this Damon guy IRL. He's a hardcore racist.

  • ||

    Sir, clearly you are out of your fucking mind. Being a Marine yourself, I would have assumed that you would see the total failure of this swat team and obvious lack of communication and controlled that was executed during this raid. Get off your bootsock officer horse and face the facts. If this had happened in the Corps you fucking know heads would roll and whole platoons if not battalions. Would be shit. Go cash your reality check Butterbar.

  • ||

    to Marine4Life: You are freaking blind!!! Try to take off the happy goggles and revise the "troop welfare" definition in your head, may be you will comprehend what "never enough training" means. The one of "most professional" individuals had a negligent discharge and the other one(s) opened up... Some professionalizm there... Excellent "name calling" there, Marine Officer, as well.
    With that particular attitude of yours, you are lucky to get through OCS(shame on your DI) and hopefully the Careeer Designation board will restore the status quo. Estimating your maturity level, leads me to believe that you are not at this point of your career yet. The attitudes like yours do get Marines killed!

  • ||

    So what. It's people like you who love to carry guns and act superior to every day citizens. Real marines and SWATs are men, not cowboys. Back to training 101.

  • ||

    Hey! I'm married to a cowboy! He was a conscientious objector who enlisted to serve his country nevertheless in Vietnam. You're giving cowboys a bad name here! ;)

  • ||

    YOU!!!! Sell out officer pog pos!!!! Dishonorable punk! You are clearly a PIG first, a jarhead second(refuse to call you a Marine), and a man...well...you coward never were that. A Marine who doesnt think is nothing more than a self-propelled sandbag. You make me sick.

  • SWATforTWATS||

    "A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot". Sounds pretty professional to me.

  • Observer||

    I for one appreciate the contributions made by the citizens of the United States that have provided me with a continued quality of life.
    Though it has always been troublesome for me to hear someone that willingly took a job, proclaim the sacrifices they have made.
    I appreciate the fact that military and police life are dangerous.
    Some construction jobs are similarly dangerous, but you don't hear these construction workers proclaiming the sacrifices they have made. When asked, they are simply doing there jobs. Jobs they did sign up for.

  • John||

    Dear Marine3life,

    As Americans we do put our lives on the line everyday a Swat team member decides to kick our door down, and ask questions later.
    Clearly your holier than thou attitude that we are ignorant, and you are high and mighty. THIS IS EXACTLY the attitude a Swat member shouldn't have when its the job to break into the home of American Citizens.

    Yes I agree with you these are unfortunate incidents, and as Americans we have our 1st Amendment right... THAT YOU FOUGHT FOR mind you, to speak up when we feel when we feel that these "unfortunate incidents" happen way too frequently.

  • John||

    Dear Marine3life,

    As Americans we do put our lives on the line everyday a Swat team member decides to kick our door down, and ask questions later.
    Clearly your holier than thou attitude that we are ignorant, and you are high and mighty. THIS IS EXACTLY the attitude a Swat member shouldn't have when its the job to break into the home of American Citizens.

    Yes I agree with you these are unfortunate incidents, and as Americans we have our 1st Amendment right... THAT YOU FOUGHT FOR mind you, to speak up when we feel when we feel that these "unfortunate incidents" happen way too frequently.

  • ||

    Sure you are, pal.
    These heavily armed girl scouts, fire 71 rounds after a negligent discharge,
    by one of their own.

    Real pros, highly trained room temp IQ, MURDERERS.

  • ||

    Marine4Life:
    Does that mean that killing this innocent man is excusable as 'collateral damage'? Percentages are in your favor, but this isn't a video game.

  • silverkitty||

    This article is not about the feeling or honor of being a marine or swat. And yes, anyone who puts the safety of others before themselves are great people, but this is about a man. A man with kids and a wife. The one who died IN HIS HOUSE after working his butt off to put food on the table. Who died because he lived near someone. The war on drugs is not worth innocent lives. This is a sad thing to happen to a family. The marine will have to bury one of their own and swat will know deep down in their hearts, they were wrong, but those kids will never have their father again.

  • ||

    Are you saying that killing this innocent man constitutes rightful 'collateral damage'? The percentages are on your side except this isn't a video game. They should be tried for murder.

  • ||

    Our Constitution protects the American people from the use of military force against us. SWAT teams are a military force if I ever saw one. These idiots screwed up and now they are digging in deeper trying to cover it up. You, by the way, may have served your country, but you are still an asshole.

  • ||

    you are an asshole.

  • ||

    I definitely want to commend you on your services at every step. However, maybe, just maybe, these SWAT members were a little shot crazy! They is only a suggestion that he maybe had a machine gun. However, it was proven that the first shot was by the police! I'm sorry but I have seen news video and they have the bullet proof vests and shields. They have GOT to make sure they no. 1 are at the CORRECT address and NO. 2 know exactly who is in the house. What if that young boy had been shot? They are supposed to be the professionals! And I'm sorry but if it was just about marajuana they have got to stop!!! All these other drugs I whole heartedly agree with have got to go but they have to do something about these horrible raids to do with just marajuana and then things who horribly wrong. Why won't anyone say if they found anything in that house. If the cops won't confirm it than it wasn't there and boy do they have egg on their faces!

  • ||

    You sound like a horribly insecure, tightly wound accident waiting to happen.

  • ||

    How many of these "unfortunate incidents" more do we have to see to prove that you are not safe in your own home, from people who are supposed to protect the public. Is out of control, you shouldn't have to die beause they "need" to serve a search warrant, that is NO emergency. This busting down doors for warrants, the "probable cause" of smelling something, or anything else of this nature is criminal in itself.

  • ron paul||

    Your a fucking Marine and your telling people to shut the hell up? I thought you guys were Americans, fighting for our rights with one of them being freedom of speech, now you want to silence them? I don't get it? Oh, I get it. If someone says something that YOU don't agree with, you kill them. Goon

  • don dinero||

    They murder people for having plants you disgusting piece of trash Of course this guy probably murdered a lot of people in Iraq for lies so maybe this is just karma. Either way though damn the police and the Democrats and Republicans for their drug war.

  • ||

    "Until you are willing to get up off of your lazy ass and put your life on the line for strangers" are you for real. So these highy trained SWAT members let a man bleed out? Regardless if this guy fired at the officer's like any Marine operation you remove the threat and once they are no longer a threat you care for them. That Code of War ... this is why i have no faith in you worthless butterbars

    -USMC NCO-

  • ||

    Yeah, you sound just as intelligent as the idiots who routinely kill innocent unarmed men children and their dogs...Proud or not, why don't you shut the hell up? Just because YOU were stupid enough to do the dirtywork of Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs, doesn't make you special, or patriotic, it just makes you a lackey...You obviously have no clue that you were used to violate peoples personal civil and Constitutional Rights. Here and over there...

  • AnotherMarine||

    Few things make me angrier than “warriors” who wrap themselves in the flag and then crawl farther in the mud by questioning a man’s activity level and honor because he does not have the same resume they have. How courageous you are. I wonder how proudly you would stand behind your words if it were your son that was shot. I am neither against police nor against SWAT but lets face it, this is happening too often. When you bring war tactics into civil society this happens. Your credibility as a MARINE OFFICER doesn’t carry that much weight with me Mr. Beentheredonethat, I would be more impressed if you left out all the screaming eagle bullshit. But because you have no objectivity your irrationality bled off the screen. Do the world a favor and go stand outside the PX and yell at Lance Corporals for having their hands in their pockets, you might be more productive and yet still an ass.

  • Doorkicker||

    Impressive. I was a Marine for many years myself. I did my Iraq tours also, with many forcible entries so your point there is moot. The only thing Guerena did wrong was hesitate, but he probably did so because his ingrained ROE dictated PID and threat assessment. A shame the keystone cops feel no such restrictions. If you don't understand the acronyms go to your 3 shop and ask.

  • ||

    You sound like a fucking POG, and no they are not. I was a marine for almost 7 years and I was OPFOR for a SWAT team in LA and they were horrible. I did plenty of raids like this and these guys are royal fuck ups. These guys are slopy. You and your cop buddies are nothing but a bunch of bitches. Your day of reconing will come bitch boy. USMC SGT OUT!

  • ||

    So how does that excuse the negligence that killed this guy? What SwAT officers get a pass? I hope they don't come to your house some night, and leave your wife a widow.From what I can tell almost everyone in America pays for negligence and mistakes, except cops.

  • Veteran||

    This story is very concerning. God bless the family. What is most concerning about this story is first- the house was raided with a warrant yet the house was clean and the neighbors were not. This more than likely means this house was not intentionally on the list. Second- there was a negligent discharge from a SWAT member and after a resident was seen with a gun. This means the shot was fired because the safety was off and the SWAT member was ready to fire without reasonable cause. Third- the resident was denied medical treatment for over an hour after being shot and removed from any weapon. Fourth- the wife was allowed to use a phone and stand by her husband after she was pulled from the house to call for a paramedic that was not already on scene or on standby. Fifth- 71 bullets were fired into the home and only one hit the resident. After a few tours in Iraq I know that each raid team formed had all persons trained in combat lifesaving and had one medic per each stack of 4 persons. No one not even an enemy was denied medical treatment even at war. This was in our own country, our own citizens, and even a war hero. Never would there have been a time where 71 bullets would be fired even among 71 armed troops to take down one person. There is proof from the 71 bullets that each bullet fired was not aimed at the resident and most likely each person firing the rounds did not have eyes on their target. Obviously the SWAT team is not trained well enough to perform the duties of such a task. I am all for protecting our neighborhoods from crime and drug abuse but the duties need to be in the hands of well trained, mentally sound, specialists.

  • ||

    "Only one hit the resident."

    Where are you getting that? Guerena was shot 60 times. I'd say they were aiming at him.

  • notbelievingit||

    Cover up. There is more to this encounter.

    Plus they wouldn't want him to be alive to talk, he would be a millionaire sipping thru a straw. Now his family can be instead and his kids can go off to college. More than what the government would ever have given him for serving.

  • ||

    This is the type of thing I read on an everyday basis in America and we do nothing about it. Yea we get online and bitch about how it's so horrible and something should be done but we all just sit and forget about it 30 minutes down the road. Something needs to be done. I'm tired of situations like this one happening and nothing is done. We all need to do something. Write your Gov't officials. Bang down their doors if you have to. Don't allow horrible stories like this to liter our minds with horrible thoughts wondering if we are the next ones to be killed during a drug raid that was, most likely, based on Marijuana. A man, who served OUR COUNTRY, through 2 tours is now dead, and for what? A little bit of money and maybe a nickel back? 2011 is no place for Reaganaughts and their ridiculous excuses for the most horrible crimes paid to their own people.

  • ||

    how about a protest? nationwide? seems to work in the arab world...

  • NoTalentAssclown||

    for fucks sake... Balko leaves, and the nut punches get worse...

  • Alan Kellogg||

    Cops can't do wrong?

  • spencer||

    exactly what I was thinking!

  • yonemoto||

    triple nut punch day.

  • ||

    Given that this recklessness led to homicide, I'm sure that the murderer(s) are headed to prison.

  • pmains||

    You're not from around here, are you?

  • ||

    Given that this recklessness led to homicide, I'm sure that the murderer(s) are headed to prison the tax payers of Pima County will pay excessively.

  • william||

    cops will never spend time in jail for this. to me its obvious that this county is anti military and just wanted to kill a marine.

  • sweaterpuppies||

    This country is anti-citizen and just want to kill whoever gets too loud or gets in the way of them playing their little war games.

  • ||

    Exactly!

  • jessbear||

    No, not anti-military. Anti-Hispanic. Arizona SWAT, Remember?

  • ||

    No, not Anti-Hispanic, Arizona has a large, vibrant Hispanic community. Pima county is run by the Pedophile Sheriff Dupnik, a leftist scumbag politician who should have been recalled years ago. As an American of Hispanic origin, I can tell you this incompetent sheriff should be jailed for his crimes against the law abiding citizens of Tucson.

  • psyop||

    Are you people idiots? With the exception of "Veteran" you people are just popping off stupid statements with no foundation. Veteran raises some valid points that are worthy of some conversation. The rest of you are making stupid and unfounded statements.

    "It is obvious this country is anti military and just wanted to kill a marine". Are you kidding me? What foundation could you possibly have for such a statement? For starters you do not have all of the facts from this situation; there are more holes in this story than a block of swiss cheese. Second it is not as if this man was wearing his dress blues screaming that he was a Marine and then they just put a cap in him. Third, by and large this country has been very supportive of our troops. While there are some anti war protests they are more directed at the government than the troops. The obvious exception being the dumb asses that protest at the graves of KIA veterans.

    There are some real questions that need to be addressed here and it seems like there was a major goat rodeo that took place. If in fact he was denied medical care the police department will be held liable for that. They are responsible to see that medical care is provided for both hostages and suspects. I served 8 years in the Army and have been a Paramedic for the last 15 years. Normally on SWAT call outs there is a medic on the team or an ambulance is on standby in the safe zone right outside of the operation area. I am having a hard time trying to figure out a situation where care would be denied for over an hour.

    We do not have much information about the Marines actions. It is possible that he could have done something that could have been conceived as hostile. I am not saying he did ... just that it is possible. We do not have enough information to make that judgement.

    You have to believe that the system will work. There is not a police department in this country that enjoys shooting people. There are crappy cops just like there are crappy people in every position in every job out there.

    If they screwed up the family lawyers will be certain to make them pay for their mistakes. While this will not bring back the Marine it will help to ensure this mistake does not repeat itself.

  • ||

    assuming they can afford family lawyers, and don't just get screwed over in a civil proceeding by some half ass public defender

  • Ben||

    Why would they have a public defender? That is for a criminal proceeding where they are defendants. For civil trials, they just need an attorney who can sue for wrongful death. Attorneys will be lining up to take this case, and will be willing to take a percentage of the damages instead of any upfront fee.

  • ||

    If I am not mistaken in this issue, the US Marine was still active or had just gotten out. Regardless of that fact law enforcement must be held at a much higher standard just as if they serve in the armed forces of our nation. Having said this, it believe that the law enforcement on scene should be held to the same high standards as military personnel. If we place special operation team members in a courts martial for roughing up and giving a known terrorist a bloody lip, I strongly feel the same must apply to the so called trained SWAT officers, nothing else. They should not only lose their jobs, careers and any benefits, but they should also goto prison for the rest of their lives!!!!

  • Fat Crack Ho||

    "If they screwed up the family lawyers will be certain to make them pay for their mistakes. While this will not bring back the Marine it will help to ensure this mistake does not repeat itself."

    The only just payment for this "mistake" won't be through lawyers in a civil action; justice in this case can only be dispensed by a jury at a criminal trial.

  • ||

    I'd say more like a slice of swiss cheese..

  • ||

    Timothy McVey was a veteran and look what he did.....

  • Just Another Veteran||

    You're right Fed Up, Timothy McVey was a veteran as well as a Marine, how is your point even valid. Im a vet and a Marine, I'm not plotting to blow up federal buildings and I might be inclined to grab whatever weapon is closest to me and defend myself and my family from whoever it is that is currently kicking in my front door right up until the moment that I see it is a law enforcement official, at which point I would have to surrender. @Fed Up, I don't know what point you are trying to make but I don't like it.

  • ||

    "I might be inclined to grab whatever weapon is closest to me and defend myself and my family from whoever it is that is currently kicking in my front door right up until the moment that I see it is a law enforcement official, at which point I would have to surrender."

    I commend you on this, and I would not be surprised at ALL if this is exactly what this man did. I mean, it doesn't sound like he lived the kind of lifestyle that would lend him to expect SWAT to show up... I imagine it was QUITE the surprise!

    That said, I'm not surprised at all that he was shot even with surrendering. I *personally* watched an innocent man shot on my very front porch by police. Nobody I knew, mind you. To make a long story short, he had been accused of stealing a purse at a grocery store a few blocks away. He started to walk home when police were called, and he was IDed and cornered right outside my front door. I remember clearly him screaming to turn over the purse, and seeing him (through my windows) holding his hands up saying he didn't have the "god damn purse!" Then he was told to put down his weapons. His arms were already in the air. OBVIOUSLY no weapons. For 30 minutes this screaming went back and forth. Eventually, he put his arms back down and BLAM... Blood and guts all over my porch, and a few bullet holes in my door. I remember as the police were doing their final paperwork, I heard from my kitchen one officer telling another that the little old lady that had accused him of theft in the first place had found her purse in her trunk.

  • ||

    "Fed Up In Texas" Please leave the country now and not just Texas but the entire country.....you're a MORON!

  • ||

    No matter how rationalized with some seemingly good points, this man had no drugs or evidence of drug involvement and he was wrongly gunned down by the very people we must depend on to protect us.

  • JD||

    The only person I depend on to protect me is me.

  • ||

    That's what police apologists said about Amadou Diallo's shooting, too.

    You're the idiot here, pal.

  • Tiredofitall||

    psyop, you are THE most delusional person to comment here so far... "You have to believe that the system will work. "? Really? REALLY??? It is THAT type of "reasoning" (read INSANITY)that allowed this horrific tragedy to happen in the first place... people like YOU are among the 14% that have RUINED this grand Republic - you left-wing nuts need a tall frosty glass of "Sit Down And Shut The Hell Up"
    "I served 8 years in the Army and have been a Paramedic for the last 15 years." and "It is possible that he could have done something that could have been conceived as hostile."
    DUH! If ANYONE kicks in MY front door in the middle of the night, I WILL defend my family!
    Your comments - THAT terrifies me... NO doubt the murderers that gunned down this man IN HIS OWN HOME share the SAME mindset as you.
    YOU Sir, are a part of the reason this nightmare is allowed to continue. PLEASE - take your Police-State Jackboots and go to Russia - were you will no doubt have many that back you up and share your "psyop" beliefs.

    I'm sorry people, but I'm SICK AND TIRED of this Police-State mentality BULLSHIT... what ever happened to PROTECT AND SERVE? When did we allow these THUGS to bully and intimidate US... and then get away with MURDERING US IN OUR OWN HOMES? HOW MUCH MORE WILL WE TOLERATE before taking back OUR COUNTRY???

    "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
    ~Thomas Jefferson

  • ||

    This ADMINISTRATION is patently anti-military. We have Janet Napolitano warning that returning military are the worst terrorist threat that Americans face and then we have Eric Holder refusing to hold states responsible for insuring that military votes are counted. It ain't the country, it's the lying, corrupt b@st@rds in DC.

  • sven||

    A guy with actual courage and valor gets murdered by a bunch of dweebs playing pretend. I can only his wife will live a very comfortable life at the expense of Pima County.

  • cynical||

    You aim low. I have bigger, more implausible, but lovelier dreams -- dreams of the Marines invading Pima Co. and treating its pigs like armed insurgents.

  • alan||

    +1. Pimo Co. SWAT is American al-Qa'ida.

  • Restoras||

    A+

  • ||

    South
    West
    American
    Terrorists

  • ||

    +++ to infinity and beyond.

    I know the American legal system will take this very seriously, and a serious investigation into how this occured, who is at fault, and appropriate consequnces from termination to prosecution for negligent (if not more serious charges if warranted) homicide...OOO! I think I was hallucinating or I had a stroke or something....

  • Dude||

    Sweaty
    White
    American
    Terrorists

    Swine
    Who
    Act
    Tough

    Swine
    Without
    Any
    Testicles

  • Beer||

    Cause only white guys are on SWAT teams? You are a tool

  • Hey you||

    The vast majority of cops everywhere are white. Open your eyes and shut your mouth, fuckwit.

  • Ugh||

    Not everyone on a swat team is white. I'm so fucking fed up of people playing the race card, which has NOTHING to do with this article. YOU need to open your eyes & shut your mouth, jackass.

  • ||

    Non-responsive answer. Reread and try again, shithead.

  • Just Another Veteran||

    I live in Arizona and there are plenty of hispanics that wear a badge, they even let the blacks be cops here. Can you believe it, BLACKS!!! your a retard Hey you. Maybe next you'll say the vast majority of the population in this country are white, what a shocking statistic. We should import more Mexicans. I bet all the members of the Pima County Sheriffs Dept. SWAT are white supremacists and voted for SB1070. Kill all the white men!!! Look I can say retarded shit too!!

  • ||

    Yes, you can. Can you say anything to refute the assertion that most cops are white?

    Didn't think so. Sit down and shut up.

  • ||

    Awesome. :D

  • Cytotoxic||

    And that is how the thread was won.

  • ||

    Residents of Pima County live in fear of this rogue organization run by leftist politicians who consider themselves to be above the law. Recently, without a hint of irony, the Pedophile Clarence denounced all "Tea Party Members" to be racist. Apparently even those of us of mixed heritage.

    The Pima County Sheriffs SWAT team run by Clarence has been terrorizing innocent families for decades now, each time the local magistrates (leftists all) declare the Sheriff free of responsibility.

    How long do we have to live in fear?

  • ||

    Pimo is run by blue-dogs, meaning Conservatives, you moron. They are Democrat in name only. Only fascists like the right-wingers of this country would support a system of police abuse like this. Think before you open your stupid mouth. Does this happen in highly liberal areas like Europe? What about places like Seattle or San Francisco? No.

    You know where it happens a lot? In places like Texas, Alabama, Arizona, China, Iran. Places that are RIGHT WING TO THE EXTREME.

    So pull your head out and stop watching Fox, maybe you'll actually end up being useful to society at some point.

  • ||

    Well , if YOU live there then we know that they have at least ONE IDIOT.....

  • Your all dumb||

    Seattle is so liberal that when the liberals protest things like the WTO the cops shoot them. Then again, thats probably because the liberal protestors are a bunch of retards who attack the people that are there to maintain order and then cry when the people that are there to maintain order are forced to retaliate against the protesting liberal retards. If you think Europe is so great why don't you go live over there and spread your stupid, stupid.

  • Not You, thank science||

    I can't help but begin with your butchering of 'you're'...

  • JesusSaves||

    No, it is the proper possessive form "your" and the initial "stupid" is the antecedent..the second "stupid" is directed at the other commenter. Thank u for playing :)

  • JD||

    If you'd hang around here for a while, you'd see that covering for police abuses is an equal opportunity political game.

  • ||

    China's right wing?

    You've got a pretty elastic definition of "right wing," champ.

  • ||

    Uh, go back and look at your history books, friend. Fascism creeps from the left, not the right. The German Socialist Democrats (later to be known as the Nazis) called themselves "progressives" and Goebbels said that he learned the art of propaganda from Woodrow Wilson. Likewise Mussolini's blackshirts called themselves "progressives". Just about every Marxist government ever instituted treated their citizenry just like these guys in Tuscon did that Marine and his family. Pull your head out and quit being brainwashed by the leftist lapdog media and maybe at some point you'll actually end up being useful to society.

  • sickofitall||

    rixtintx, that was the most intelligent thing anyone here has said so far. Bravo X100

  • ||

    The fucking bastards would deserve it.

  • Restoras||

    A+

  • plisade||

    Nice! Those cops have no idea what lessons the Marines could teach them.

  • BLACKANDWHITE||

    Right, because no SWAT members or police officers are ever ex-military.

  • Banjos||

    You don't need Balko to give you nut punches, just a copy of your local newspaper, fucking a.

  • ||

    I hope every member of the US Armed Services within 1000 miles comes to the funeral, then stands outside the Sheriff's office and demands a full explanation.

  • Boxbot||

    I thought Joe Arpaio was Pima county sheriff. Is this Clarence Dupnik the new guy? Fast learner.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Arpaio is in Maricopa county.

  • ||

    I win for succinctness.

  • nope||

    Joe's in Maricopa Co.

  • ||

    Arpaio is in Maricopa Co.

  • Pal Joey ||

    You can't spell MARICOPA without ARPAIO.

  • ||

    Dupnik is also the Democratic sheriff who suggested that right-wing propaganda contributed to the Gabby Giffords shooting a few hours after it occurred.

    Him and Sheriff Joe ruling side by side just show the bipartisan nature of disgusting law enforcement abuse.

  • ||

    Tulpa FTW.

  • Cytotoxic||

    GET THAT IMAGE OUT OF MY HEAD

  • ||

    So, then this would just be another case of fire, aim, ready, think (or FART as an acronym).

  • Corporate Drone||

    Top. Men.

  • ||

    Maricopa County has Phoenix, Pima County has Tucson.

  • ||

    Dupnik made a name for himself at the Jan 8 shootings here in Tucson when he ranted that it was caused by all the nasty radio talk show rhetoric.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    The dispatcher couldn't figure out the address of a house that was supposedly on a raid list? That stinks to high heaven. They must have gone to the wrong house.

  • ||

    For the record, I condemn this abuse of police authority, and join in the inevitable fantasizing about anal probes being performed on the shooters.

  • Wind Rider||

    Arrange to have those anal probes conducted with their own elbows, and sounds fine to me.

  • dfd||

    the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler

    A misfire? An inadvertently discharged round is not a misfire.

    Wasn't there a story a few months ago about a police who killed an innocent man in his home when he stumbled and fired a round because the idiot has his finger on the trigger? What are the chances this "misfire" turns out to be similarly incompetent?

  • ||

    IIRC the official account said that the man was penetrated by a bullet that had been expelled from the weapon held by a SWAT member.

  • ||

    I believe that officially the SWAT member "heard a shot"

  • ||

    Forgot that part!

  • Libertarian2||

    I love the passive voices of these official explanations. Somehow, a "a deputy's bullet struck the doorway" implies no officer fired a shot.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    That's because that faulty bullet just jumped out of the gun on its own, despite the careful, safe and proper handling of the weapon by the highly-trained deputy, who of course acted in full accordance with all departmental procedures.

  • ||

    when o when will we require that only competant, fully trained patriotic American made bullets are used? Bullets of good character, fully vetted. Damn Chinese communist bullets, murdering our heros. Guns don't kill people, bad bullets do...

  • WDIK||

    Well if they would quit buying those crazy ACME bullets they wouldn't have this problem. Damn things have a mind of their own.

  • AcidicSoul||

    This "magic" bullet esacaped from Dallas me believes. All this focus on the death, it would appear that is gross and all together ill informed negligence...My soul begs to cry out for the small child left alone in the house to walk past his father gasping for breath. An AD caused this, and if there is any justice, those responsible will find away to provide for this family, and be the Father to this boy, it is thier duty. This is how wounds are healed, and children learn the compassion of God's love.

  • ||

    Yeah, it's a brilliant way to deflect responsibility.

  • ||

    Let's not forget the Oakland subway "taser" incident...

  • ||

    Correct. A misfire is when you pull the trigger and your gun doesn't go "bang". When you don't want your gun to go bang, but you are too stupid to keep your booger-hook off the trigger and it goes "bang", it's called a negligent discharge.

    In the Army and Marine Corps, a negligent discharge with get you disciplinary action that can include reduction in rank or worse. On a SWAT it gets you a nice cover-up.

  • SFC B||

    Yup. A negligent discharge into a clearing barrel will get a Soldier reduced. One that injures or kills another Soldier is going to get that Soldier out of the service, or in jail.

  • db||

    Negligent discharge. You or I would be up on manslaughter charges for a negligent discharge resulting in mayhem and death. This cop gets "misfire" and a medal for bravery, no doubt.

  • some guy||

    They might put him on administrative leave-with-pay vacation for a few weeks too.

  • Myrah||

    At the most, I'm sure he'll retire quietly with full benefits.

  • ||

    If Guerena were still alive, he would have to remind the Pima County Sheriff's Office that according to the Marines there is no such thing as an accidental discharge. There are only negligent discharges.

    At least that is what was drilled into my head at Parris Island in 2002.

    Also, reports are that Guerena's weapon was found on safe after the shooting. This is another important detail for Marines. There are four weapons handling safety rules:

    1) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
    2) Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
    3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
    4) Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

    And now you see why the Marines don't have a concept called "accidental discharge." If you're obeying these four rules, there is no way your weapon is going to fire accidentally. Therefore, every such discharge is a negligent discharge by definition. You failed to follow one of the four safety rules.

    What is plainly obvious here is that Guerena was not only a better man than those goons, but he knew how to handle a weapon better than any of them. These guys opened that door spoiling for a fight. Weapons condition one, weapons off safe, fingers on the trigger. These are poorly trained goons with a bloodlust. The most despicable part of this story is that no one on that SWAT team will be held accountable.

  • ||

    Just remember... as long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

  • ||

    God I fucking hate pigs. This is what is going to happen. A Pima county court will give the grieving widow a substantial award. The pigs of Pima county will take it to the Arizona Supreme Court. Following precedent in Indiana, Arizona will determine that it is unlawful to defend yourself against an illegal "kinetic" entry and, thus, the widow is entitled to nothing. The Court will also award the pigs attorneys fees and impound the widows car and garnish her wages.

    And this "war against pigs". Like it is imprudent to hate these fuckers. Why? They are killing us. Why can't we shoot back?

  • Alan Kellogg||

    That's a pretty big blanket you cast. Sure you didn't sprain something? Credulity maybe?

  • Credulity doctor||

    Looks fine to me.

  • -||

    Needs a few more "pigs" to be credible.

  • ||

    I had a true LOL in my cubical at work over this.

  • Fluffy||

    Other than the impoundment of wages, his scenario is overwhelmingly the most likely one.

    If this kid wasn't an ex-Marine, it would be the 100% certain one.

    At least somebody in the world will listen because of the kid's service. That gives her a small but measurable chance. If he was just some hispanic kid working in a mine, there would be no chance.

  • ||

    I think police should have all their guns taken away. They can be reissued .22's however with no extended clip. Make'em think before they shoot someone and just piss them off.

  • Mensan||

    .22's can still do a lot of damage. We had a soldier assigned to my unit who had his arm amputated below the elbow by a negligent discharge of one 5.56mm round.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    There's a big diff between a 5.56 and a .22 long. The only thing they have in common is the approximate diameter of the projectile. Other than that, they're completely different cartridges with different ballistics. A 5.56 round has a higher muzzle velocity, typically is jacketed, has a very different shape, and tends to tumble as soon as it hits something. It's the tumbling that does the damage. A .22 round is basically a big, fat BB. Sure, if it hits you in the right place, it will kill you, and I sure as hell don't want to get shot with one, but if you get hit in the arm with a .22, it's not going to wreak the kind of havoc a 5.56 will.

  • ||

    I'd rather get shot with a 357 magnum with a .22. I've seen people get shot point blank in the chest and live because the bullet hit the rib cages and rolled out the left shoulder, and I've seen a guy die from a single shot to the left hip, bullet somehow went thru his heart and lodged in in his scapula. .22 is a squirrelly round. Don't underestimate it.

  • ||

    22 cal. to bulletproof vest.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8hHkNPmqCk

  • tds||

    Hey there fella. There's a big difference between a .22cal and a 5.56mm. Although a 5.56mm is only .223cal, it is a much more powerful round. Although, you were correct on the .22 being capable of a lot of damage if it hits certain parts of the body.

  • some guy||

    I say we Barney Fife all of them. Everyone gets a revolver and one (1) bullet. Said bullet must be carried in buttoned shirt pocket until it is needed.

  • ||

    considering the mayhem that has been caused, I say the only weapon they deserve is a "super soaker."

  • ||

    The officers need to only carry water pistols!

  • Myrah||

    And if they had found even a trace amount of marijuana or anything else illicit, his widow would probably be in jail and the children in foster care. Then the SWAT team could have patted themselves on the back for their "good shoot."

  • brando||

    cool it, kid.

  • Libertarian2||

    Indiana wants me, but I can't go back there.

  • Hate Potion Number Nine||

    What about state's rights you bunch of commies?

  • ||

    Okay, you just hit a pet peeve.

    Communism : (n) a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

    And what in the world do state's rights have to do with this case? The right to storm in on someone's place without due process of law?

    Hrmmm..... Okay now let's look at the one remaining large communist nation: China... The ONLY country in the world with more people in prison per capita than America. America and China are the ONLY major nations in the world that have the ability to enter a citizens home without due diligence of law.

    You sound like you think that sort of state behavior is true and right.

    Go back to high school government class, "commie"!

  • Col. Hogan||

    "It's us against them, boys," *spit* "Make every shot count."

  • ||

    What a horrible thing to happen. But I have to say that how one department handles things should not reflect on all police! Every day officers go to work to help and protect the citizens. Most of the time they get no respect and all I am saying is everyone is different. I pray for everyone involved! so sad

  • neener||

    ***NEWS FLASH*** Police have no duty to protect you or anyone else.

    As for respect, it's earned, not given. There are plenty of good, upstanding officers who deserve respect, and then there's a whole lot of swine whose cockholsters I wouldn't piss in if their guts were on fire.

  • ||

    Oh please remember your post when you are hurt,robbed, raped, house broken into ect. Because you can rot! I am so sick of people who commit crimes and bitch about getting caught or getting was what they deserve. DON'T COMMIT CRIME AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! Now can you repeat that a hundred times to get it through your head!!!!!! Does anyone know why the swat was even there? Well there had to be a reason!

  • Enoughisenough||

    Maybe you didn't catch the part where they found NOTHING backing up what they were looking for...they had the wrong guy, they had nincompoops carrying guns and do you want to go into excessive use of force? REALLY? If you truly believe that if you don't commit crime, you have nothing to worry about...well my friend...you are so wrong. Many of the policemen and women who take oaths to serve and PROTECT...well they are humans first and we all make mistakes. THIS WAS ALL AROUND A HUGE MISTAKE and most of us would have to take responsibility for their mistakes. The same should be true for all involved in this horrible, horrible event! No more coverups, fraudulent reporting of facts or making the inocient victim look like he somehow deserved loosing his life over a teams worth of stupidity!!!

  • ||

    The problem here is that the victim did not do anything wrong. He just happened to leave in a bad neighborhood. There is a difference between protecting people and playing Army guy where there kicking in doors. Sucks to have to pay tax dollars to the very guys you have to worry about them getting your address right and being trigger happy. I respect officers in the same respect I do with other military soldiers, but most police tend to forget that not everyone not in a uniform is bad. Something we have to learn being in the military.

  • Um||

    So what crime did the decedent commit, sunshine?

  • Myrah||

    Yes, please read the story again. They had the wrong house. And it's not like this is the first time I've heard of this kind of thing happening. How hard is it to verify an address when people's lives are on the line? There was a child in that house. Something even more horrible could have happened.

    I ask you, how are we supposed to respect the police when things like this happen? If anyone here had any confidence that the officers involved would be held accountable and that steps would be taken to ensure that this would never happen again, I think we could all live with that. But we don't. Most (if not all) of us believe that this is going to be swept under the rug and no one is going to have to answer for anything. That poor widow and her children will probably never have any justice.

    The police have an important role in our society and they hold a lot of responsibility and power. Why aren't they held to a higher standard?

  • seguin||

    I've been robbed twice: once my office was broken into and our trailer and many expensive tools stolen, and my car was broken into.

    Both times the police didn't do shit.

    Meanwhile I don't cross a t or dot an i in regards to license and registration, and suddenly the police are all up my ass.

    Frankly, fuck the police, until they start concentrating on the important things (and being competent for Christ's sake!) and stop hassling me for petty bureaucratic shit.

  • ||

    The cops aren't there to protect you. They're there to put up the crime scene tape and draw the chalk outline after the perps expire you. This idiotic unwinnable war on drugs results in crap like this day after day in this country. Some incidents get more coverage than others. As long as there are buffoons like these addicted to interdiction funding like a junkie is addicted to horse, crap like this will continue.

  • brando||

    First. Take off the caps lock, and more than one exclamation point makes you look crazy. Well, that and your position is crazy too.

  • ||

    Ok, this is one of the dumbest comments here.
    "Does anyone know why the swat was even there? Well there had to be a reason!"
    The reason was...they had the WRONG GUY! They found NOTHING in his home. He happened to live in a bad neighborhood. He was guilty of being in his home and working his ass off in a mine to support his family. A squad of obviously poorly trained cops raided his home because it was next to the neighborhood drug house. The thing you fail to realize is that cops are humans, and they make mistakes. They went into the wrong house. This could just as easily have been your family. Put yourself in this family's shoes. They entered his house because he was in a bad neighborhood and could have possibly been selling drugs, emphasis on possibly. If your neighbor is selling drugs, they could just as easily enter YOUR home and gun YOU down. I had my home searched because my next door neighbors were selling LSD and the officers "Didn't know which house had it." Those were the policeman's words as he was dumping my dead dog's ashes out onto my dresser to look for LSD! They found NOTHING in my home, however had we have been home when the raid began (we drove up during the raid to find our dogs sitting in an Animal Control truck), they would have kicked in our door, possibly killed one or both of my dogs (like they did my neighbors' dogs) and opened fire on me or my husband for trying to protect our home in a moment of confusion when we were doing NOTHING wrong! Doing nothing wrong does NOT guarantee a SWAT team won't kick your door in. The only thing that can guarantee this won't happen to anyone ever again is for us, as citizens, to demand our rights back. No searches without probable cause, that's what will insure this won't happen to you, or anyone else.

  • canuck||

    Ha!!! Next time you're robbed, assaulted, whatever, who ya' gonna' call??

  • ||

    Ghostbusters

  • ||

    One of my 14 handguns, one of which I always keep loaded.

  • mike||

    this story makes me sick.

  • Lester Hunt||

    And it happened on the turf to that criminal jackass, Dupnik.

  • TN Jed||

    The Fourth Amendment has now been de-listed by the Supremes. Cops have carte blanche. The Constitution is truly a false memory, soon to be erased.

  • yonemoto||

    good timing, huh?

  • air max pas cher||

    thank you

  • Hobie Hanson||

    All the more reason to not let up in our fight against the scourge of drugs, so this young man's sacrifice may not be in vein.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    Or in vain, even. But not in vane.

    And this young man did not make a sacrifice. That word implies that he acted selflessly for others. He didn't have a choice in the matter. It was not "sacrifice" - "murder" is a more apropros word.

    From where I'm sitting, this provides a very strong example of why the stupid and senseless "war on drugs" needs to stop.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Hobie, are you in favor of the War on (some) Drugs?

  • Hobie Hanson||

    Obviously. If anything we're at war with too few drugs.

  • ||

    Why? Don't you recognize forty years of FAILURE? Forty years of a disastrous public policy. Millions in jail, millions dead, other countries destabilized, and all because you feel the need to control what your fellow citizens do?
    Alcohol kills 75,000 Americans a year.
    Tobacco kills 450,000 Americans a year.
    ALL illicit drugs combined kill 17,000 Americans a year.
    Do you see one thing that's not like the others? Do you have the faintest clue how the 'War on Drugs' is not only ineffective, but is actually counterproductive?
    I doubt you can. Those who are foolish enough to believe that 40 years of failure is not enough, haven't got the sense god gave toejam.

  • Argument Bender||

    Your statistics are fantastic. Since we currently have a policy to fight illicit drugs, you can use the same stats to illustrate the argument FOR the "war on drugs." One could reasonably conclude that the low numbers of deaths from illicit drugs is because they ARE illegal. You can't use this statistic as proof of the harm of the "war on drugs." You cannot use these stats as irrefutable proof that the "war on drugs" is pointless if you do not have other stats illustrating the amount of deaths that would be caused if there was no "war on drugs" or if all illicit drugs were legal. As such, spewing numbers about the amount of deaths from illicit drugs is completely arbitrary until an apt comparison can be made in a situation where they were completely legal.

  • ||

    Argument Bender,

    Look at some of the countries where illicit drugs are legalized. You will find the statistics you doubt.

  • ||

    Argument Bender,

    Look at some of the countries where illicit drugs are legalized. You will find the statistics you doubt.

  • Bender Bending Rodriguez||

    Ah, I see what you did there.

  • Ray||

    Yo, I'm a fucking disabled Marine and this shit sent me through the roof. Calling and sending links to my extensive contacts in the Marines be they active or retired. Will be contacting the fucking pigs personally. Fuck. This. Shit.

  • yonemoto||

    +

  • CatoTheElder||

    ++

  • Thankyou||

    +++

  • John Dutton Frost||

    yeah, i'll believe when i see it. law enforcement and military are thick and, you know, "accidents happen."

  • ||

    Lots of military / police connections but we aren't that thick. Us old military types have far more respect for the Constitution and our rights than career cops.

  • Mensan||

    ^THIS

  • ||

    No, most of us have a deep disdain for the play soldiers that were too out of shape for the challenges of a military life and chose to terrorize motorists and innocent bystanders instead.

    A lot of people ask where the military will stand when the SHTF here at home. This should make that answer evident enough.

  • .||

    I wonder how many of those cops are former Military?

  • Expat to Be||

    My experience has shown that your statement would probably include almost all of them if you replace "former" with "wannabe".

  • WRONGWRONG||

    YOU IDIOT! Don't try and apply logic to any of your arguments! Everything is black and white! There are no gray areas! It makes it easier for the incredibly stupid populace that makes up this country!

  • Andrew||

    +++

  • Col. Hogan||

    I'm with you on this one, Ray!

  • ||

    Spoken like a true thug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't think we have a war here? well we do and it's drug dealers, murderers, rapest ect. We don't have military here to fight these wars we have our police officers. For the most of them they do things by the book. Evry place has a few bad eggs.

  • Enoughisenough||

    A few bad eggs???Really??? Ok, when they come to your house and kill your family because they had the wrong house, we'll excuse them on your behalf. If we don't take responsibility for our actions, the cycle that has now become acceptable in our society will only continue to breed hatred, mistrust, murder and mayhem. Good luck to us all.

  • Um||

  • NegligentDischarge||

    A few bad egg spoil the bunch. Let's say that only one, though that's clearly not the case, officer here is the bad egg in question, will he be put to trial for manslaughter? The cover up began immediately on this, they said he fired, he did not, they didn't allow him medical attention thereby guaranteeing his death. Their search which had they not fired might have ended with no death, turn criminal when they began firing on a man in his home who had not fired on them.

  • ||

    We Marines stick together. We know how to frag- lots of experience in Nam. We will teach these SOB cops what IED1s are all about.Maybe a few of their family members will show them how to grieve. The cops are great liars and can only be trusted when they are six feet under. The police state has come to America. The next revolution has started. Citizens will spit on all cops because of the few and will see all cops as conspirators. These cops are truly UN-AMERICAN.

  • ||

    You need to read the DHS Domestic Extremism Lexicon. It says police should watch returning veterans, gun rights advocates, etc... We are all potential terrorists...lol.

  • hmm||

    Radley on vacation?

    There may not be a statistically proven war on cops, but there sure seems to be a war on US citizens by cops.

  • ||

    Radley has left us for the HuffPost.

  • Wind Rider||

    Well, he left YOU. Me and Rad are still tight on the FB, loser.

  • Art-P.O.G.||

    Losing Balko hurts more than losing Weigel, even (yes, I know a lot of you hate Weigel).

  • The Gobbler||

    "Hate" is too weak a word.

  • Skr||

    Isn't he supposed to start over there today?

  • SIV||

    Radley on vacation?

    fuckin' permanent from this digital cageliner

  • Art-P.O.G.||

    Sucks. This story sucks, too.

  • Art-P.O.G.||

    Well-written, though.

  • Chinny Chin Chin||

    Wish the thread were happier, but nice to see you back, Art.

  • Art-P.O.G.||

    Thanks. It's good to be back.

  • The Gobbler||

    You were in Iraq, was it?

  • hmm||

    Shame. Huffpo has a larger audience, but the coefficient of mouth breathing retards is probably triple that of this board. Wish him the best though, guess I'll have to read his blog more since I can't really stomach Huffpo.

  • ||

    I can assure you that it is. I was over there reading a story about how the Supreme Court declined to review the "states secret" case out of the 9th Circuit.

    This is a case that started under Bush and was picked up by Obama. In February 2009 when the case was picked back up by the Obama administration, a judge on the 9th Circuit virtually begged the DOJ lawyer to say that the horrible "state secrets" argument would be dropped. According to the reports, the other judges were "shocked" to hear that Obama had reviewed the case and the legal argument, and decided no change was necessary. This is after he explicitly campaigned to end this practice.

    Fast forward to the HuffPost. Commenters flooded the story claiming the Koch brothers had bought off the justices.

    "Mouth breathing retard" would be a compliment for most of the people over there.

  • hmm||

    I'll bet that SWAT has some NG weekend warrior fucking morons that did some wrench turning tour. I'd put fuckin' money on it.

    God this has me pissed, upset, sad, angry... and people wonder why I say I'll issue individually wrapped lead door prizes to every person who enters my home forcefully. The odds of dying seem to be converging no matter what you do, so you might as well help rid the world of neanderthal jackboot scum that appears to be so undisciplined they will unload on a ND or have a fucking ND during such an operation.

    Jesus this is pathetic. Combine this with Indiana deciding the 4th doesn't exist and crazy Montana cabin life starts to look rationale.

  • yonemoto||

    the odds of dying are 100% if you ask me. Gotta engage the forces of natural selection for good, man.

  • John Dutton Frost||

    good damned-if-you-do/don't observation.

  • Warty||

    I was wondering when reason would get to this nutpunch. By the way, are you guys going to hire a new Radley?

  • R||

    Judging from the tenderness of my balls, Cavanaugh is doing a pretty decent job.

  • Gibby||

    I don't want Cavavaugh anywhere near my balls.

  • Fat Crack Ho||

    I like this Cavanaugh kid! he approaches his new job with a certain panache, and quite a bit more surliness that I saw from Balko. Still has some big shoes to fill, though.

  • ||

    Those mother fuckers need fired and Vanessa better sue the ass off the county.

    This story pisses me off

  • Tman||

    Baaaaaallllllkkkkooooo- wait. Oh shit.

    Its fucking Tuesday and my nuts hurt this bad?

    Jesus this story is horrible.

  • NT||

    If this had happened in Iraq or Afghanistan, his death would be described as collateral damage.

  • R||

    It's one of the risks you take when you go into war. He shouldn't have to be sucject to the same damn risk when he's a civilian stateside and not in a fucking war zone.

  • zoltan||

    Yeah, all those civilians killed by predator drone attacks shouldn't have taken the risk of living where they have lived all their life. They were asking for it.

  • Gibby||

    What's your point, asscunt?

  • JD||

    Not to mention in his own fucking home.

  • Amakudari||

    Just to make this very clear, the original link notes that there were sixty bullet holes in him and his gun had the safety on.

    Also, the Indiana Supreme Court decision was that "there is no right to reasonably resist unlawful entry by police officers. ... [The Court] believe[s] ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence." In other words, government gangsters do not need a reason to enter your home, and there is nothing you can legally do to resist them. Such a viewpoint is decidedly modern.

    If you too wish to think such modern thoughts about the Constitution, imagine how you wish it to read, and then imagine the letters arranging themselves as such. Certainly, we could amend the Constitution if we found it lacking, but consider that that too would have to be updated for a right-thinking modernist.

  • ||

    I believe they were saying that the exclusionary rule ("modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence") provides sufficient deterrent to police unlawfully entering your home.

  • zoltan||

    Where is the exclusionary rule in the Constitution?

  • The Gobbler||

    ^^THIS^^

  • ||

    ""I believe they were saying that the exclusionary rule ("modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence") provides sufficient deterrent to police unlawfully entering your home""

    IIRC, Scalia's "new professionalism" was that civil suits would keep the cops in check.

  • bdross||

    A Chapter 13 bankruptcy will fix any applications of that deterrent in a relative jiffy!

  • Myrah||

    In other words, he would have had a better chance had the neighborhood crack-dealers broken into his house because at least then he would have had a right to shoot them. In fact, if that had been the case, he would have been trumpeted as a hero for defending his family.

  • ||

    Errors are inevitable. When a militarized domestic police force engages in an unwinnable "war," homicide becomes inevitible.

    The USSC will not save us. We must save ourselves.

  • Beezard||

    Somewhere I can almost hear the shrill bleating of a policeman's wife, who claims this was yet another obvious case of "suicide by cop" and the guy was asking for it.

  • Wind Rider||

    Stories like this are why I'm moving into a structurally cinder block house, which will shortly have 'entrapment areas' at both the front and rear entrances. Their little kinetic door busters will work sorta ok to get them in, bu t if that happens, the door will lock behind them, and the inner barrier will be a bit more of a challenge. The plan also includes provision for audio and video recording of the premises, and sufficient lighting to suddenly illuminate any and all kevlar cockroaches approaching the dwelling through bushes. Before opening any doors to such morons, they'd have to get a supervisory level individual to present any and all documentation for verification, and there'd be little they can do about it but hop up and down like spoiled children. Should be able to completely infuriate the lot of them if they do gain entry, only to find they still can't get their grubby mitts on me, stashed in a secure and inaccessible with less than a backhoe panic room setup, taunting their impotence at every opportunity via audio and video. Make for a hilarious story they'd really rather not have aired in public.

  • proegg antichicken||

    a man can dream

  • Joshua||

    Right up until the point Steven Segal knocks your walls down with a Sheriff's tank.

  • R||

    A few strategically placed concrete obstacles will prevent any vehicle from coming near. If you do it right, you can even make them look decorative.

  • Sickhaus||

    Dragon's teeth are cool, but the Czech hedgehogs would be sneakier made to look like a rustic fence.

  • R||

    Might be a little harder to get away with, actually. To be effective they'd need to be steel, and it'd be hard to pass that off as a rustic fence.

  • ||

    Better hope the SWAT doesn't apply for a rhino tank.

  • Dude||

    I bet the HOA will love that!

  • ||

    Segal, another friend of Arpaio.

  • ||

    Wind Rider.

    Not as elaborate, but the NYC chapter of the Hell's Angels did a similar things with the NYPD. They couldn't break the door down and had to wait for the Angel's lawyer to review the warrant.

    From Wiki (of all places)
    "On January 28, 2007 a woman named Roberta Shalaby was found badly beaten on the sidewalk outside the Hells Angels' clubhouse at 77 East Third Street in the East Village, Manhattan. The resulting investigation by the NYPD has been criticized by the group for its intensity. The police were refused access to the Hells Angels clubhouse and responded by closing off the area, setting up sniper positions, and sending in an armored personnel carrier.[151] After obtaining a warrant, the police searched the clubhouse and arrested one Hells Angel who was later released."

    Plus a helocopter that sounded like it was landing my roof.

  • Dude||

    One can make it a great deal harder for the swine by turning the doors at the entrances to the home around so they open out instead of in. That makes it many times more difficult to kick down and will buy you some time.

  • ||

    Of course, then they (or any other criminal) can just knock the pins out of the hinges and lift the door out of the frame.

  • Um||

    As inept as the SWAT pigs in question are, I don't think that would occur to them until after a few solid whacks at the door.

  • CE||

    You forgot the trap door.

  • AcidicSoul||

    Watch out, SWAT has those civillian downed versions of BMPs, and they know how to drive em. They aren't afraid to run over thier own to proove they can open any door they want with a sealed indictment, gotta love burning the constitution in effigy through flagrant retooling of the laws to amass power. I reiterate, the boy is the rally point here, and the hate will not heal his heart, or the communities. I pray that the ND man steps in and raises or supports the future of this child, it is his duty.

  • ||

    As the mother of a Marine on his second deployment to Afghanistan I can't fathom what the widow must be going through; once they make it home alive you're so grateful that they're finally safe. In that context how can she ever find a way to make sense of his death, for herself or her children? No monetary settlement can touch that pain, but I hope she fucking wrings the county dry.

  • Scruffy Nerf Herder||

    HL Mencken

    A policeman is a charlatan who offers, in return for obedience, to protect him ( a ) from his superiors, ( b ) from his equals, and ( c ) from himself. This last service, under democracy, is commonly the most esteemed of them all. In the United States, at least theoretically, it is the only thing that keeps ice-wagon drivers, Y. M. C. A. secretaries, insurance collectors and other such human camels from smoking opium, ruining themselves in the night clubs, and going to Palm Beach with Follies girls…Here, though the common man is deceived, he starts from a sound premise: to wit, that liberty is something too hot for his hands---or, as Nietzsche put it, too cold for his spine.

  • Art-P.O.G.||

    Man, no wonder Mencken gets so much respect.

  • plisade||

    To all my fellow Marines and service members, here's the link to the Sheriff's office. Let him know.

  • plisade||

  • Andrew||

    I just called...got through to someone in internal affairs who said that the results of the investigation into the shooting will be released sometime in the future. Not a great answer...but I'd encourage everyone who's reading this story and outraged to call the 888 number...speak up!

  • Trespassers W||

    From the linked blog:

    Unfortunately, this is liberal loudmouth Clarence Dupnik's turf. Had this happened in Phoenix, on conservative Sheriff Joe Arpaio's watch, the place would be crawling with investigators

    Yeah, Arpaio is reviled by the media because he's "conservative", not because he's a perpetual asshole fascist petty dictator uberthug.

    Some folks can't drop the TEAM bullshit for five minutes.

  • ||

    Exactly.
    I used to live in Tucson (Pima County) and now live in Phoenix and am a Marine discharged due to combat injuries.
    Arpaio is an incompetent punk. His support here in Maricopa county is dropping very quickly because people are finally seeing through his lies, bluster and general incompetence. The Arpaio investigations started under the Bush administration btw.
    But the issue here is not Arpaio or the laughable idea that Dupnik is "liberal". The issue is the militarization of the police and the laws that now allow them to do and get away with practically anything they want.

  • ||

    ""The issue is the militarization of the police and the laws that now allow them to do and get away with practically anything they want.""

    Though it was worth posting again.

  • AcidicSoul||

    Having vacationed in Panama over Xmas in 1989, I have seen what wonderful things come of training and equiping power hungry types without a proper background check, and I lose my Grandad's double barrel because an ex tells lies to get me kicked out of the picture so she can sell the house while I am deployed. How many hours did you carry and sleep with your rifle before you were even allowed to dry fire it. I weep for the ND guy, but doubt he exists the more I think about it. You know for individuals that were so quick to fire then waited an hour to "clear" the objective...the word "sackless" comes to mind. I respect what law enforcement does, but these tools need to carry 2 by 4's on a rope as punishment till the son graduates from law school.

  • Griffin3||

    Why isn't this national news? Forget the link to the sheriff's office ... here's a contact page for Fox News: not my favorite outlet, but probably the best place to get started, given the democratic affiliation of the sheriff. Call. Leave a message. Hit "0#0#0#" see if you can get out to a human operator. Deluge the email boxes. _Contact any friend who works for Fox_. If they pick it up, then you badger MSNBC, the others ("What are you covering up? Huh? Don't you love our soldiers?"). There have got to be enough pissed off marines on here to make this national news.

  • The Gobbler||

    I just sent a letter to Bill O'Reilly, who is very pro-soldier.

    oreilly@foxnews.com

  • CE||

    How about a story on 60 Minutes? With SWAT team murder statistics from all 50 states....

  • Griffin3||

    ABCnews finally picked it up, in the online version at least.

  • NoVAHockey||

    please let us know if they establish a fund for Guerena's wife and son.

  • Plisade||

    Indeed. I've been looking for one.

  • Resto Druid FTW||

    I grieve for a fallen brother Marine. What a miserable way to die. What a wasted life, due to a "misfire" on the cops' part. Facist bastards.

  • Highway||

    So do the cops on these 'dynamic entry teams' now have a round robin to see who's going to 'accidentally fire' first? Maybe if they spread it around, they can take out quite a few of these 'lowlifes' that they're raiding before anyone changes the policy. But right now, any cop 'hears' a gunshot, and they can all open up. I totally wouldn't be surprised if they know who's going to 'hear' such a thing before they start the raid.

  • Invisible Finger||

    They're fighting for our freedoms!

    Maybe we can finally stop believing such bullshit.

  • The Gobbler||

    They're fighting hate us for our freedoms!

  • ||

    How many more stories like this will it take -- how many more innocent people will die -- before the country gets mad-as-hell enough to demand the end of the Drug War? I have been asking that question now for at least the past ten years. The crickets answer me.

  • Max||

    He was probably a Ron Paul supporter. Good riddance.

  • Destrudo||

    Die in a fire.

  • Restoras||

    Good start but not enough pain in too short a duration.

  • ||

    Fuck off and die.

  • The Gobbler||

    Hey Max! I am pissing in your mouth! Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

  • Thehuskarl||

    So it's okay for the government to kill anyone who supports their political enemies?

    If Ron Paul was president this situation wouldn't have come about.

  • ||

    Looks like I'll be listening to this all day today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6mNDTkGzEw

  • zoltan||

    Good song!

  • Sniktpool||

    I think I need to memorize the lyrics now.

  • Cyto||

    Other audio records Drexel Heights released to the Star Friday indicate the agency dispatched a medical unit at 9:43 a.m. but was told by the Sheriff's Department to hold off.

    The 911 call and request for ambulance for a gunshot wound started at 9:30. It took 13 minutes for them to decide to try to dispatch an ambulance. At that point the Sheriff's office said no and it was another hour before the cops would let the paramedics treat him.

    Negligent homicide charges for all of them, if I had anything to say about it. It also ups the charge from negligent homicide to capital murder for the cops involved, particularly the commanders. They may have been negligent when they panicked and shot him - but withholding treatment for an hour because the thought he was shooting at them is straight-up premeditated murder.

    Because they all conspired together to kill him, they should all go to death row together. If you drive the getaway car on a 7-11 robbery and the store owner shoots your buddy, you go down for murder. Why should the people who ordered the murder of this young father walk? They are certainly much more culpable.

    In this hypothetical world where justice is served, they could use their time to hope we are successful in abolishing the death penalty.

  • Art-P.O.G.||

    Well said, Cyto.

  • ||

    The odds are they will be aquitted. Cops are brought up on charges in the NYPD all the time. Almost all of the major incidents you've heard of from the NYPD resulted in officers being charged. They are almost always aquitted unless they did something really frowned upon, like using an illegal choke hold, or shoving a baton up someone's ass. Then they have a union that cries foul over that.

  • ||

    Honestly, there's just one word to describe it: sickening.

  • ||

    What are the names of the Police who executed the marine? The public DEMANDS to know who those terrorists are so we can take appropriate and legal action.

  • Sam||

    Why would you mention Osama bin Laden in this article? That bit of sensationalism wasn't needed.

  • hops||

    My thoughts exactly. To even make that comparison is irresponsible and disrespectful. Why would this D-bag even think its's even remotely ok. Screw you Tim Cavanaugh. You sir, are a POS!

  • NotSure||

    Creating a police state has consequences.

  • Lord Googoo||

    Burn in hell, Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Burn in hell.

  • ||

    Writing yesterday about this matter, William Norman Grigg stated:

    "The grim fact is that we shouldn't be surpirsed that a Regime capable of sending americans abroad to terrorize Iraquis in their homes would employ the same state terrorism against americans here at home."

    Somehow, I rather doubt that Reason scribes are as outraged by this as Grigg is. Well, that should not come as a surpirse either as we know that, at the end of the day, Reason scribes want to be "repsected" by, and be a part of, the MSM.

  • The Gobbler||

    Pssssst...your ass is showing.

  • barfman||

    *barf*

  • ben||

    Personal outrage isn't as important as gaining publicity. Reason pretty much broke this story to the MSM, when I first read it here I tried to find more on google news and only came up with a handful of articles from local newspapers. Still not much coverage but now at least the Huffington Post and Forbes picked up the story, with the forbes article crediting Tim Cavanaugh in its first paragraph.

  • Creech||

    When is the Libertarian Party going to make a big stink about these tactics in every state and local community instead of wasting time figuring out which nobody they want to run for president???

  • ||

    Or, see my post.

  • ||

    The rhetoric, people! The rhetoric!

  • jk||

    head, explode

  • bilbo||

    This is one of the many reasons why the war on drugs has to end. This sickening deplorable act by the wanna be jack booted thugs shows that they are more interested in seizing of money then drugs. This killing will result in some fucknut jerkoff "cop" getting a medal for bravery because some cum guzzling Public Relations asshat decided this will make for a great story. The sheep will forget about this heinous act and the pigs will go on charging into houses w/o warrants just to seize assets of "suspected druggies" Thats why they will never legalize drugs, it makes the cops toooooo much money and they could care less about the victims as long as they get the cizash.

    this story infuriates me and hell now i wanna punch a puppy im so livid.

  • ||

    Hey, these SWAT goons were just looking out for us, right?. After all, didn't Janet Napolitano issue warnings to PDs that they should watch out for returning military because they're obviously the greatest terrorist threat to us? Unfortunately, bilbo is right. As long as cops are money junkies to interdiction funds (not to mention the ones on the payrolls of the cartels) this asinine war on drugs will continue. The money big pharma spends buying politicians is another obstacle to rational policy. I was railroaded by lying narc cops forty years ago, but fortunately got deferred adjudication for a felony I never committed. These mad dog undertrained, oversalivating punks MUST be stopped while we have a shred of our constitution left.

  • ||

    Those SWAT punks and everyone involved should be raided by the US Marines and shoot every single one of them. Justice then would be served.

  • rat9||

    Sounds to me like we need more police to keep us safe.... from the police. Lol. Until the pigs raid YOUR house no one gives a fuck what happens to their own neighbors in this fucked up country.

  • Hey you||

    Word. The best strategy is to arm yourself and take as many of the scum with you as you can.

  • rat9||

    Nothing will change, these cops will get suspended with pay. thats it.

  • Hey you||

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Void where prohibited.

  • ||

    During my training for the parachute regiment, british army, if we even accidentally discharged one blank round during exercise we would go to military prison for something like 3 months and loose about 3 months pay let alone if an accidental discharge led to the loss of an innocent life.

    This is extremely unprofessional and the officer should be criminally charged.

    By the way I found a picture of him http://www.ar15tacticalgear.com/images/ar15-21.jpg
    and here's another http://reedmagazine.com/wp-con.....09x300.jpg

  • DaveInAustin||

    Why isn't this bigger news? Did we learn anything from Cory Maye? Apparently we learned the wrong lessons. It's one thing to make a mistake and shoot someone in a raid, but denying him medical care for an hour required some cold-blooded calculations. If the SWAT team knew enough, about this apartment to get a no-knock search warrant not know that there was an American hero who was working night-shift in a mine?

  • Ron||

    Yeah, I've wondered why this isn't a bigger story. Talk radio has done a miserable job of covering stories like this. Unfortunately, it'll take the death of someone famous, or a member of a politician's family before appropriate attention is paid to home-grown terrorism inflicted upon American citizens by SWAT teams.

  • ||

    Dave, it's hard to learn a lesson from a story when you haven't heard that story. Who is/was Cory Maye?

    Ron, several local-level politicians have been raided in the last few years, none (but the dogs) killed. It hasn't gotten MSM's attention, yet.

  • daveInAustin||

    Oregon,
    To learn about Corey Maye, look up "Mississippi drug war blues". It's episode 12 on reason.tv. He was another man with no criminal record woken up by a SWAT team serving no-knock warrant.

  • ||

    If he had to die (which he didn't, obviously), too bad he didn't take some of these fucking pigs with him.

  • ||

    Over funded "war on drugs" swat team doing what they do best. F Up.

    Legalize drugs.

  • ||

    The problems that legalized drugs would cause is nothing by comparison to the problems with the war we have brought upon ourselves causes in the name of prohibition.

  • ||

    Absolutely correct, Vic. Portugal has proven that rational policy trumps fascist prohibition. Demand is down. The rate of AIDS infection is down. Property crimes by desperate addicts is down. Overdose deaths are down. And perhaps most importantly, use by younger people has decreased, simply due to the fact that there are less of the criminal element courting them. Truly amazing. And amazingly ignored.

  • andy||

    I would not be upset if the marines assasinated the pimo co swat team.

  • ||

    You had me until you said:
    "Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden..."

    Really? So now Osama is just like a Marine who served to save others from those who throw acid in women's faces, cut off their noses, and force them into burqas? He's just like that. He's EXACTLY like Osama Bin Laden.

    There are times when reason makes sense. Those times are limited to matters in economics. Apart from that Reason is little more than know-nothing Relativists.

  • ||

    I'm not sure...can I drink on that?

    I think I can.

    I think I will.

  • ben||

    no Osama is like a Marine.. the point is this Marine was treated like enemy of state Osama

  • hops||

    Thank you! It's amazing that that line of the article was sooo overlooked.

  • ||

    This has got to be the most sorry-a**ed SWAT team ever assembled. No weapon discipline, no tactical recon prior to entry, no double and triple check to make sure they had the right place. 71 rounds tells me that each Cop wanted a piece of this guy.
    Testosterone is obviously worse than any drug Guerena may have had in his home.

  • ||

    The problem here isn't the cops. Or rather, not just the cops. Most swat teams operate like a reserve military unit, you show up one or two trainign periods a month for your training in return for extra duty, extra pay. Only large metropolitan cities have full time SWAT teams, who train every day to do their highly specialized job. I bet Pima SWAT falls into the first category, they're poorly trained ( who runs into a firefight with their finger on the trigger, srsly), and poorly led ( if you get injured in a SEAL team firefight, a SEAL corpsman will patch you up and tote your ass back to the evac point, so they can interrogate you) but they didn't do this by themselves. Some idiot lawmaker decided that in the interest of propping up the failing War on Drugs, to throw the 4th Amendment out the window when drugs are involved. I'm sure that's what the Founding Fathers had in mind. "The people shall not be subject to unreasonable searches, unless we're are trying to bust an opium den." The Fourth Amendment is dead as of today, when the SCOTUS ruled 8-1 in favor of allowing warrantless searches in drug cases. The lone dissenter was Ginsburg, who I never agree with.
    Put a fork in us, we're done.

    -Wolf, Former Marine, Former Cop.

  • ||

    Amen Wolf; Amen.

  • ||

    "Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by." - Did you really need to make that stupid connection to Bin Laden? I know you're trying to make a connection with his serving over there but to throw that in is ridiculous. The story is strong enough by itself without you inserting your political remarks in there.

  • Myrah||

    I don't think they meant it the way it sounded. I think they meant that they shot Guerena like he was an enemy of the state, like he was a terrorist criminal or something, when he was actually a hero (unlike bin Laden). It was a contrast statement, not a comparison. At least, that's how I read it.

  • KW6||

    Don't be a Dupnik!

  • Bobert||

    Thomas and Mike, I can't believe you guys need it explained to you. The Bin Laden reference was to point out that a U.S. citizen received the same treatment as the #1 world terrorist, not to degrade him or his service.

  • GodGunsGutsGlory||

    What the hell?
    Sheriff Joe better train his deputies better than this Pima County dip sh*ts!

    That man had EVERY GOD GIVEN RIGHT to have and use an AR-15 to defend his home, if he was under attack!

    Now once again they f**ked up and killed an innocent man, in front of his wife and kid.
    Nice going! These idiot cops will no doubt make up the future NWO thugs who will rip the people from their homes during martial law when our Government and Al CIAduh stage another attack!

  • ||

    These idiots need to be tried before a jury for this atrocity. In my opinion there could never be enough money or drugs recovered in this operation to take this innocent life.

    Former USN

  • ||

    Concerning the marine rules stated by ls1z28chris;

    1) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
    2) Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
    3) Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
    4) Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

    With ALL due respect to the marines, I learned three of those in my hunter's safety class in high school over 15 years ago. It's not exactly advanced weapon use, but barely above the rank of common sense. Sad that a bunch of teenage kids were better trained in firearm use than those SWAT members. (On a side note, I seriously doubt any high school is currently teaching kids to use firearms.)

  • ||

    Of COURSE not. The NEA wouldn't stand for it.

  • ||

    What a horrid story.

    I've got to wonder, though, just what point you thought you were trying to make by comparing this guy to Bin Laden.

    "Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by."

    Why take a powerful story, and slide an idiotic innuendo into it?

  • ||

    Waco, Ruby Ridge, Pima County, etc. Welcome to Amerika.

  • ||

    So, they refuse to treat the casualty they created. This is in violation of the Geneva convention and the laws of war. The police should be tried for war crimes. If they're going to fight a war against us then they should at least be held to the same standards as Soldiers and Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    This also meas that not reporting is just as serious as committing a war crime.

  • ||

    Ya, even if they find a closet full of drugs, their refusal of treatment to a man who no longer posed a threat is unjustifiable. Once a person no longer poses a threat, police must immediately seek treatment for that person. If police can stand around and watch a person die, then they are serving as judge, jury, and EXECUTIONER.

  • JB85||

    I love how the "misfire" almost killed another swat member. These douche's need to go back for some more training.

  • ||

    I hope the family sues for everything they can get! ASSHOLES! Mistake my ass/ Your idiots

  • Cat||

    There is zero excuse for this. I thought SWAT was supposed to be the cream of the crop and able to function under pressure. Did they not id themselves? And to refuse this Marine treatment for over an hour is disgusting.

  • ||

    He grabbed the rifle to protect his family. If he was going to use it BELIVE ME he would have put rounds down range. Marines spend more time with their weapons than anyone on the planet.

  • ||

    All of the deputies denied this hero medical attention and all of these deputies are equally guilty of killing him. I wish that AZ could put them all to death so we wouldn't have to worry about them killing us.

  • ||

    Did anybody read the second link to Ghost32?

    It's quite good [I up-voted it], although this part scares/puzzles me:
    "Had this happened in Phoenix, on conservative Sheriff Joe Arpaio's watch, the place would be crawling with investigators, journalists, Eric Holder himself, you name it--all digging with sharp little claws to find out what went wrong that morning.

    In case you're not familiar with Arpaio's previous work.

  • Paul||

    The scary thing is it didn't happen on Arpaio's watch, which tells you just how pervasive this problem is.

  • shane kenton||

    "This means the shot was fired because the safety was off and the SWAT member was ready to fire without reasonable cause."

    Wow you're pretty stupid....

  • Theresa Knox||

    This is disgusting. How long will we allow this? These barbarians work FOR US. We need to FIRE THEM. ALL of them. PLEASE GOOGLE YOUR CITY LEADERS, YOUR COUNTY OFFICALS, YOUR CONGRESSMEN AND CONGRESSWOMEN, YOUR SENATORS, YOUR STATE REPRESENTATIVES, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, MICHELLE LEONHART OF THE DEA, THE PRESIDENT... GET CONTACT INFO AND TELL THEM, REPEATEDLY, TO END THE WAR ON DRUGS. It doesn't take that long to write a short but powerful blurb, and email it out to everyone you can think of. Do it over and over and over again, and tell your fellow citizens to do the same. We are losing our country to thugs, and soon it will be too late to take it back. Take action, or it will be taken against you!

  • ||

    One tip: If you're going to do this, don't send your "blurb" in all caps.

  • fiddle mike||

    How can you refer to ben Ladin "enemy of the state" in the same sentence with this murdered Marine. Is Echavarri in the pay of the pigs who killed him, or just that sorry a 'journalist'?

  • Mark W||

    For those thinking that somehow the military is going to suddenly wake up to the tyranny that is taking over America, Tom Baugh has an interesting counter viewpoint, based on logic. He examines the personal gain of each military man and determines that they will go on obeying orders and that so-called "oath keepers" are a myth in his article "When to Shoot the Colonel"

    http://www.starvingthemonkeys......onels.html

    As for the folks of Pima County, if the wife of the Marine does win in court, the taxpayers will be paying for the actions of the SWAT thugs, not the people actually responsible, unfortunately.

  • Um||

    As for the folks of Pima County, if the wife of the Marine does win in court, the taxpayers will be paying for the actions of the SWAT thugs, not the people actually responsible, unfortunately.

    And that right there is why we need to severely restrict the doctrine of sovereign immunity, if not do away with it altogether. The Pima County Sheriff and every one of his lackeys should be sued into destitution over this ridiculous raid and the cover-up he's now attempting.

  • ||

    Gee, do you think this story will into the brochures they hand out down at the Marine Corps Recruitment Center? Dude spends two tours risking his life overseas so the government can have the excuse to grow itself in an unneeded war only to lose his life in an unneeded war the government fights for the excluse of growing itself at home.

  • neener||

    The headline should actually read, "Marine Survives Illegal War Abroad, Killed in Illegal War Stateside" or the like.

  • brando||

    Be ashamed of yourself.

  • neener||

    Go fuck yourself, hemorrhoid.

  • sirnicky||

    it is extremely messed up how this went down, and it sounds like they shot him before any attempt to even try to get him to disarm his weapon...but at the same time, why did he grab his gun and why did he have it aimed (potentially, doesnt really say) at the SWAT team? if he really didnt have anything to hide and had just complied and not picked up his gun in the first place none of this wouldve happened. also, just because the wife said there was no drugs, doesnt mean there werent any, it wouldnt be the first time a drug-dealer hid something from a wife. and just because hes a marine doesnt make him automatically a saint, he still couldve gotten involved in drugs. there are gangs that not only train the people in it military tactics they learned in the military, but actually recruit while still on-duty in other countries...that all said, fuck the police

  • ||

    Complied with what? None of the accounts I've read intimated anything about any orders being given, just a wife telling her husband that people with guns were peeking in the windows.

  • sirnicky||

    yea, cause i mean im sure it was hard to tell they were SWAT and not random people trying to break in...as multiple people have said the guys are armed insanely heavy. and if he hadnt had his gun in his hands maybe the officers would have given out orders instead of thinking he was a drug dealer who was potentially gonna fire at them and none of it would have happened in the first place...shit, maybe he shouldnt have been in G.I. mode and rushed to his gun and/or thought everyone was out to get him...the media can show things from whatever side they want to and people eat it up, im really just playing devils advocate. im guessin it all went down like the story says, but maybe we should wait till info comes out like if the police ended up finding stuff in his house before rushing to conclusions

  • neener||

    Absent someone higher up than the sheriff forcing the issue, we will never know what they were looking for and/or what they did or did not find. You'd think that if they found anything that they'd be shouting from the rooftops about it. Strange that they aren't saying, ain't it??

  • Paul||

    We've 'waited' long enough for the police stories to come out.

    The proper conclusion:

    When the police officials' lips are moving, they're lying.

  • ||

    Really? Wood chips sound like gunfire? look like gunfire? even resemble gunfire? I thought SWAT were the Elite Tactics Team of the police force. If they fired because they thought woodchips were an assault they should be tried and convicted of negligent homicide or manslauter. They definently shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun again. Wow,..... Oh shit.... a wood chip......let's shoot everything in sight..... Really?

  • Michael Dare||

    Further proof the war on drugs is killing more people than drugs themselves.

  • ||

    This is tragic, and I hope the "cops" responsible for taking this young Marine's life are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I've met and known many cops over the years, many are good people, but all are gun nuts with itchy trigger fingers! God bless you Jose, Semper Fidelis my brother, rest in peace.

  • ||

    A.C.A.B., Protect and serve my ass more like afflict and oppress!

  • ||

    The memory of that marine vet's death at their hands will dog every cop and cop's supervisor involved in that clusterfuck raid for the rest of their very long, very empty lives. They shall be cursed in name and pirit by any who knew and remember Mr. Guerena's love, friendship, and brotherhood in arms. The law will be patient, and those responsible for his death will pay the state's justice which demands retribution and reparations. Their lies will convict them surely and after that, ultimately, they will die alone and neglected with Guerena's blood forever on their hands. They are cursed men.

  • ||

    we should take the swat members who did this and place them in a group and give a mack 10 to his wife and son and let them open fire!they will have as much of a chance as our beloved marine did,just saying....

  • baxter||

    whoever ordered this should be held accountable

  • John||

    The Marine was Hispanic, this is Pima County, AZ. I think I know what was going on here.

  • RETIREDMARINE2000||

    THATS INSANE! IT'S FOLLOWING THE ADDAGE, SHOOT FIRST ASK QUESTIONS LATER. EVEN THE 911 OPERATORS WERE OF NO HELP. MY CONDOLENCES TO THE WIFE AND FAMILY. SEMPER FI

  • Res Publica Americana||

    These barbarous animals should be tried for murder, convicted, and sentenced to death by firing squad. Sic mother-fucking semper tyrannis.

    What's wrong with this fucking country?

  • Amanda||

    hey. That's wrong. Didn't they use their heads? they should have used their heads, and asked if the freakin deputy was ok before going apeshit.

  • ||

    No, they didn't use their heads, they used their asses. Maybe he knew something??? It would piss more people off if they knew about this. While we slept, Obama passed a bill in which police officers can come in your house for any reason they choose. So pick one, you're next!

  • ||

    Except if the homeowner is a marxist college professor. Then the cops are 'stupid' and need to be sentenced to a 'beer summit'.

  • Fat Crack Ho||

    I remember in 'The Fifth Element' everyone's home was equipped with a special window the police could use to look inside. And in each unit, a pair of yellow circles were painted on the wall for the residents to place their hands on when the police came knocking.

    In 1997, when that movie was released, that was the stuff of science fiction; simply some writer's vision of a totalitarian future. Now, only 14 years later, its really not all that unthinkable.

  • Res Publica Americana||

    Time to secede.

  • Obbop||

    "There's class warfare, all right, Mr. (Warren) Buffett said, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

  • ||

    The S.W.A.T. is not under trained at all. Only someone who knows very little would say such a thing. The S.W.A.T is more effective that the German Global Anti-terrorist force due to studies. It seems in my opinion, that there was something bigger here. It could have been a accident but I doubt it. I would possibly conclude it was something in the Marines that he seen or heard that the government wanted him killed. But that would be way to amateur, the U.S. would make it seem as a suicide or a common death of some sort. Possible he had been involved in drug traffic and transportation being in Arizona. Or possibly it was all for another reason. You cant always trust organizations with power, especially are own government. A governments whether local, or even powerful organizations goal is to get as much power as they can and do whatever it takes without being publicly noticed as involved in corrupt deeds. Every government in the world, Russia, China, etc. all have a large share of corrupt action, murder etc. And so do organizations under them. And its no doubt the average man or person who walks under these, does murder and bad doing. So its not far off to believe these organizations do it. All men have the same temptation.

  • Don't chem trail me bro||

    I'm intrigued by your ideas and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  • ||

    Maybe he was an alien from the planet XERON and was here to steal our secrets....dude , you've been reading too much science fiction ! The SWAT in this case is more like the GESTAPO !

  • ||

    Obviously the Freemasons are involved at some level. Especially the Shriners. Never trust a man in a red fez.

  • ||

    SWAT is better than Grenzschutzgruppe Neun (GSG9)??? Heee hee hee haaa haa haa ho ho ho!!!

    Oh that's rich, tell me more.

  • ||

    SWAT is better than Grenzschutzgruppe Neun (GSG9)??? Heee hee hee haaa haa haa ho ho ho!!!

    Oh that's rich, tell me more.

  • ||

    So, what is the AZ Attorney General doing about this??? Are they going to allow a brave soldier who fought for his country get cut down by law enforcement without an inquiry???

  • ||

    Disgusting. They should be tried for unlawful/unconstitutional entry and murder or manslaughter.

  • ||

    Time for some COPS to go to jail for murder. They don't get to say whoops, sorry when they kill a marine. These are the scum of the earth that have no business in law enforcement.

    They killed a US MARINE!!!!!!!!

  • ||

    Right on Moon...those bastards should do hard time, instead, it'll get white-washed.

  • ||

    This makes me sick to my stomach. Wannbe flunkie donut eating pigs who don't have the guts to be marines so they shoot whateve is in their paths and think they're heros. Disgusting.

  • ||

    The gestapo is alive and well.....senseless !

  • ||

    Bear in mind that the cops EVERYWHERE right now are the first generation of punks that were raised on Grand Theft Auto and WWE. No respect for anyone much less another life.

  • ||

    How would a veteran of two tours in the middle east feel about having a comparison of situations regarding his death being compared with that of the terrorist Osama Bin Laden? Beyond bad taste I would say.

  • Lonewolf||

    I wonder what my friend who is a police officer and a Marine who toured in Iraq would say to this article.

  • ||

    This is not a new story. I look at this lovely man, who did nothing, and wonder how important drugs really are? People should know how much Seagram's Whiskey company spends lobbying to outlaw them. Competition? What does it matter, a brave man is dead, punks killed him.

  • Skintite||

    The government is the problem

  • craig keller||

    There is no excuse for this mans death. None whatsoever.NONE.Justice must remove her blinders and weight the facts, starting with all those responsible. Beginning with the shooters and going all the way up to the chain of command. All have blood on their hands. These actions are contributing to the downfall of America. Pat yourselves on the back boys. And I mean boys.

  • ||

    why do the little boys all have to have there little swat toggs. be sure & hide your face makes it easier to beat the crap out of someone.

  • Lonewolf||

    Obviously this article is written to inspire anger at Arizona not the Feds right, i mean when a State puts there foot down against the Feds well the media has to make them seem inept correct that way when they steal some more constitutional rights from them the rest of the Country wont care. Credibility is what our Govt attacks first.

  • jack ||

    Good time to think about laying off the steroids.

  • Lonewolf||

    From what I've been hearing a lot of hispanics have joined the marines to be better GANG MEMBERS. In Arizona mexicans are jumping the border invading homes and killing Americans, lately they have been cracking down on Mexicans go figure.

  • ||

    What a waste of life of a valued citizen. SWAT teams are notorious for HUGE mistakes. The whole system should be dismantled. This War on Drugs is so insane.

  • ||

    There is no War on Drugs, no drugs have been killed. This is a war on citizens.

  • Lonewolf||

    Then again he could have been completely innocent and in that case America should be seeing a 21 gun salute along with a march of protest.

  • ||

    Wow. Even if this dude was in a drug ring or whatever you need SWAT to come at somebody with a couple traffic tickets on his record? That's insane. He was "allegedly" holding an assault rifle, but the article doesn't say the rifle was taken as evidence. Where is it? Something stinks.

  • Bryan Peters||

    This is MURDER!!!!!! These bastards should go to prison and the family should never have to work again!!!! What is this country coming to??????

  • theknownad||

    There is no need to bring Bin Laden into this article. It's very unprofessional journalism.

  • the next one||

    its because they smelled weed and heard him destroying the evidence.. case closed... now on to the next house.

  • ||

    I agree that the swat members should be punishished, but they won't be or at the least they will blame one member and let the rest go. Right now law enforcement are getting thier stories straight to justify this terrible crime. Also understand its not Obama who is giving more power to law enforcement to crash threw your front door, its the right wing Supreme court who did this. Another thought is how many of those swat team members are ex-military,think about it! Almost all cops are ex-military.

  • ||

    I repeat. Go back to the history books. Fascism creeps from the left.

  • ||

    Why is it no surprize this is the traitor Dupniks county? Dupnik should be given a fair trial an executed for murder NOW!

  • ||

    These stupid police departments with these drug store cops that most have never fired a gun or didn't even graduate high school! All I can say is if this Marine was mistakenly killed.....Hell is coming!

  • ||

    All Officers should be ashamed. You have dishonored yourselfs, and your department. I would have shot every one of you if you came to my house like that.

  • ||

    Honestly, What is this country turning into? Evil doers are getting away with any and everything under the sun. The people who are on this earth to survive and fight the evil are having a hard time dealing with all this nonsense.

  • ||

    This is muckraking and beneath all of you. Are the police wrong in this specific scenario? Yes of course, the death of Jose Guerena is unwarranted and tragic. Does this mean that police, or specifically SWAT are bad? Not at all. The truth is that we as a society are much better off with law enforcement protecting us from the real bad guys than without. Any alternative to structured federal protection would be vigilantism (I believe some of you were complaining about the teams apparent lack of training) or anarchy. To compare the death of an American hero by the hands of law enforcement to the assassination of a high priority enemy leader is an egregious exaggeration and a petty attempt at manipulating the opinion of the reader by use of pathos. This was a tragic mistake that should never happen again, but all of this vilification of law enforcement is not helping anyone.

  • ||

    Corruption and power misused... Negligence and an ill trained staff pumped up on adrenalin...

    No point of talking when you can go gangster, and be held harmless.

    Exactly what we read about in "Other" countries - Surly, this could never happen here!

    Drugs, huh?

  • ||

    Okay so everyone has pointed out he got shot and died and yes that is a HUGE problem but the fact that they kept him from getting medical attention disgusts me!

  • ||

    They had an agenda... eliminate witnesses. Organized crime has used this as long as it has existed... and there is no more crime more organized than government.

  • ||

    Such a tragedy. Sheriff Dupnik (the dipstick)is a complete nincompoop and has no business calling himself a law enforcement officer. The policies of his office are a joke & I think were contributory in this.

  • ||

    Good God! We've come to that. Fifty years ago in LA, the cops had an 'Us vs. Them' mentality. Things haven't changed one iota.

  • earlbob||

    Looks like someone from his work(?) was trying to set up a memorial / link with donation for the family. Hasn't been updated recently though.

    http://www.rememberjoseguerena.com/

    Take a look at more of the inane babble from the Sheriff's office. There is so much wrong with it:

    http://tinyurl.com/3fkcvky

    Such a crock of shit. These failed humans need to be locked up. They give competent officers a bad rap. They were probably all jacked up on adrenaline from the other warrants and spoiling for some shooting.

    Of course, it's gonna just be business as usual in the police state of the USA. Covered up all the way up and down the chain.

  • ||

    My God what ineptitude! This tax paying working man with a distinguished military career gets slaughtered by a bunch of barney fife gun toting idiots???? Probably while the crack dealers on the street corner stand pointing and laughing. This country is circling the drain. . . . .

  • ||

    Congratulations Arizona swat team members, you are officially murdering sons of bitchs.

  • ||

    This is batshit wrong and the coverup is already in gear but don't blame all cops for this bit of stupidity. Hopefully, the marines who hear about this will go to bat for this family.

  • ||

    This is what happens when you live in a police state. The Fourth Amendment is history. These stories are repeated everyday, this one got attention because he was a Marine. If he had just been another husband/dad, the government thugs would just fill out another form stating collateral damage.

  • ||

    How damn sad, he can fight for his country and die in such a chaotic mess. Semper Fi Marine Angel. You are in Gods hands now

  • Angry Citizen||

    This is the sort of crap you hear over and over, the police and federal government only care about themselves and the rich. If a innocent person is killed they don't care.

  • ||

    How appalling! Now let's here the excuses/answers.

  • omg||

    please read the interview put out by the dept. they are trying to pin it on the victim for having a gun pointed on them, when they barged in HIS home!Sad sad day.

  • nobiggietheworldendsmay21||

    Bad SWAT!! Go sit in time out with pay for a few days and think about what you did wrong so you can cover it up better next time. In the event there is no next time, think about how you will spend your days in retirement living off of your fat pensions. Bad SWAT!! I HOPE YOU LEARN YOUR LESSON!

  • ||

    This is RIDICULOUS!!!! Every single member of that SWAT team should be fired and charged with manslaughter for letting that Marine bleed to death when they had no right to shoot him in the first place and didn't even call an ambulance!!!! SHAME ON THEM!!!!

  • ||

    Your zealousness for a fascist police state is turning our country into something no one can stand. Zealots are fools and I and that young marine did not defend our country for you and your gastapo to turn it into your little police state.
    Benjamin Franklin, Emblematical Representations, 1774
    "History affords us many instances of the ruin of states, by the prosecution of measures ill suited to the temper and genius of their people. The ordaining of laws in favor of one part of the nation, to the prejudice and oppression of another, is certainly the most erroneous and mistaken policy. An equal dispensation of protection, rights, privileges, and advantages, is what every part is entitled to, and ought to enjoy. These measures never fail to create great and violent jealousies and animosities between the people favored and the people oppressed; whence a total separation of affections, interests, political obligations, and all manner of connections, by which the whole state is weakened."
    Thomas Paine, Letter to the Addressers, 1792
    "When the rich plunder the poor of his rights, it becomes an example of the poor to plunder the rich of his property, for the rights of the one are as much property to him as wealth is property to the other and the little all is as dear as... the much. It is only by setting out on just principles that men are trained to be just to each other; and it will always be found, that when the rich protect the rights of the poor, the poor will protect the property of the rich."

  • Justthisguy||

    Concur! and Amen! and What he said!

  • omg||

    statements put out by the dept. are saying that swat cars outside the house were indication that this was not a home invasion, but a valid warrant search and that the victim basically asked for by holding a gun to the swat team members! If nothing was found in the house that was drug related what reason would there be to hold a weapon directly to 5 armed swat members??? Suicide by cop?? Atfer serving 2 tours in Iraq, he went crazy and wanted to end his life?? Shame on the dept. for trying to pin this on the victim.

  • tri-nary||

    did any1 ever stop to consider, maybe this wasnt a mistake...

  • ||

    The first shot was obviously taken before the rest of the pigs joined in & slaughtered this guy. I'll guarantee at least one of the swat members was a marine. I really wish this poor guy would have got off 5 or 6 head shots. You would think that if he were REALLY armed that he would have got one shot off. I'd say this is a really good reason to blow any pig's head off if they step foot on your property.

  • ||

    This is MURDER. The SWAT members need to go to prison!
    Period!

  • Dan||

    Only pussies would go in there with guns a blazing...

  • Dave||

    If I had a rifle and SWAT tried to break into my house, I'd have fired it at them too. And probably hit a few of them. He was completely within his rights to respond with force to a home invasion, no matter who was invading.

    The responsibility for this lands squarely on the shoulders of those police.

  • ||

    More proof that it is time to end this "war on drugs". We are all living in a police state. All this money spent, lives lost and I can go to the store on the corner and buy any drug I might want. The war on drugs is nothing more than an excuse for the powers that be to enter your house and shoot you and all they have to do is say they found drugs. This war on drugs has done nothing but erode all of our rights, and it is time to end it, NOW!!!!!!

  • ||

    You have a gun in your house to defend your home.

    If its Home Invaders breaking in early in the AM, and you DON"T use your gun, you die.

    It its SWAT on a screed up warrant, or poorly trained, and you DO use your gun, you die.

    Hell of a choice the government is giving us.

  • Lynn||

    Just another story about the breakdown of our society in general. I worry for our children and grandchildren...what their lives will be like in this world. Land of the free? Not anymore. I feel like I am back living in Uganda when Idi Amin took over. Who would have thought it would ever be like this here.

  • ||

    Tim, please do yourself a favor and find another line of work. This article is atrocious. Your belief that what you've outlined is ready for others to digest is just pathetic musing from an insecure individual with nothing better to do than call himself/herself a journalist. Repeat the folowing, for it may come in handy in your near future: you want fries with that?

  • neener||

    It's always best to folow [sic] career advice from an anonymous poster on the Internet.

  • shooterofgunmen||

    I am a retired marine Master Gunnery Sergeant. My MOS was 0311,0372 and 8541. I served 3 tours in Viet Nam,wounded 2o may 1969. From there Granada and Iraq. I served in the Marines for 31 years with men of Force Recon and Scout Snipers. Upon my retirement I became a SWAT instructor in Utah. Before we judge these officers we have presence of all the facts. I am not defending their actions nor should anyone else. The officers I have trained have been to the man highly motivated and dedicated men. They are not USMC scout snipers. They do not have the time nor do the PD's have the resources to train them as such and believe me the civilian world would NOT want that type of man behind the trigger in a civilian environment. What occurred was tragic and may very well have been unavoidable but let the proper authorities be the judge.
    To the young Marine that died I say Semper Fi brother you've served your time in hell.

  • Fat Crack Ho||

    "To the young Marine that died I say Semper Fi brother you've served your time in hell."

    And to the "men" who murdered him, may they serve theirs as well.

  • ||

    No offense, but by hiring former military trained people, isn't that exactly the kind of person they are getting behind the trigger? The only difference is that the guy standing beside them may lack the experience and judgement to know how to properly execute restraint in "hot" situations. This mis-fire being a prime example. By utilizing prior military local law enforcement is getting what they want but not paying for the training on the level that goes into maintaining a lethal team. Additionally local jurisdictions lack the review process directed at military following this sort of event, as they don't have the resources to do a years long investigation. Furthermore, they don't hold their officers to the UCMJ, or even maintain a standard beyond what their department chooses to follow. If they want to be considered professional "para-military" they need to hold themselves to the same judicial standards.

  • ||

    Pima County. The poor Marine should have been an illegal alien They would have kissed his ass.

  • ||

    Stupid loser PUNK Cops. And they wonder why people rejoice everytime some stupid cop gets clipped in the line of duty!

    www.internet-privacy.at.tc

  • ||

    Fellow Americans, I feel your sorrow. The police are so above our Justice System that we've become guilty before sound procedures are used. The same thing happened here in MI with SWAT concerning a 7yr old girl sleeping in her own bed and that was 12 monthes ago.

  • ||

    A Dead Cop is a Good Cop!

  • ||

    Unexcuseable!

  • Frost||

    It's completely insane to do these kinds of raids using heavily armed people... over drugs and money. I mean, come on - SWAT is to be used when you have people in actual dire straits who cannot be helped otherwise - hostage situations and the like - or when criminals already have deployed heavy weaponry etc.

    These kinds of "fishing expedition" drug busts shouldn't be done by people who are already primed to shoot first and then try to sift through the rubble still standing to find the evidence they were justified to do so, and especially not when we're talking drugs and money. Mildly (if at all) impeding drug trafficking is absolutely unequivocally NOT worth innocent casualties, that's just an incredibly warped notion.

  • Hemi||

    Welcome to the Gestapo States of America, where everyone is a terrorist.

  • Duke||

    stipid pigs doing stupid pig shit

  • ||

    Marines that can't make it on the outside, and can't remain in the Corps become LEO's.

    "Marine4Life" I have a hard time believing that you could ever be a commissioned officer in my Marine Corps.

  • Justthisguy||

    There is a saying:

    Q. What do you call a guy who graduates last in his class from Medical School?

    A. A Doctor.

    Now what do you call a Marine who graduates last in his class from Basic, or Platoon Officers's Course.

    Obviously, the Marines draw a line when it comes to who gets to be a Marine, and some are just barely inside it. Those people should mind their ps and qs, and their manners, and their duty, and their mouths, lest they be tossed over that line, and out, and become not former Marines, but ex-Marines.

  • fuckThisShit||

    this country's a fucking joke. wow. grats on hiring those rednecks fucking shitheads law enforcement. fucking joke

  • ||

    Good lord, it sure is Youtube Comments in here.

  • qwerty||

    The police raided my next door neighbor's house once. I remember they treated us like we were scumbag criminals simply for living next door. Police often act like everyone who happens to live in a bad neighborhood is a criminal. Believe me, you don't want to be caught anywhere near a raid.

  • Trevor||

    SWAT are highly trained memebers of a police force, sounds like additional training is needed and background check need to be conducted prior to entry. I am currently serving in the US military and have personally lost 2 troops, condolances to the family

  • Trevor||

    SWAT are highly trained memebers of a police force, sounds like additional training is needed and background check need to be conducted prior to entry. I am currently serving in the US military and have personally lost 2 troops, condolances to the family

  • Trevor||

    SWAT are highly trained memebers of a police force, sounds like additional training is needed and background check need to be conducted prior to entry. I am currently serving in the US military and have personally lost 2 troops, condolances to the family

  • Chris||

    This is disgusting. Those cops as a unit should all be put in jail for manslaughter. Perhaps it was an accident, but if this man heard a gunshot, he was every bit within his rights to be defending his home and himself.

  • ||

    Death to pigs!!!

  • ||

    The swat team should all be in prison for life, murder is not free.

  • ||

    Cannabis represents 60-75% of all illicit drugs. Most of the time thats all they'll find. Cannabis is a non-lethal plant. But, thousands of people get their doors knocked of the hinges at 4:00am in search of a weed. You'd be shocked to know how many innocent homeowners get murdered just trying to prevent what they think is a home invasion by thugs. SWAT has turned into licensed home invaders with a license to kill. Cannabis prohibition itself is far more harmful to our society, our civil rights & our lives than cannabis use is. No one is safe from the ever widening drug war. So, don't tell people they have nothing to fear if they don't use drugs. How bout the unarmed 82 year old lady gunned down by SWAT who planted pot on her to justify her murder? End cannabis prohibition & most of these raids that threaten our constitution will have to be stopped. An hour & a half before the paramedics could treat the dying Marine. Just one more reason to end this war on our citizenry.

  • ||

    Every cop who fired there weapon should be charged......no excuses!!!!

  • ||

    We need to STOP the POLICE STATE. Wake up people.... we are being treated like inmates in a giant concentration camp.

  • JimB||

    Yes, inmates in a concentration camp. This is why I'm forced to wear a jumpsuit with a Star of David stitched on it and my parents were just burned alive in a pottery kiln for not making enough bullets yesterday.

    Look, I agree it's awful when an innocent man gets killed, but this kind of hyperbole doesn't help anything. It just makes the guy saying it look crazy.

  • ||

    The cops are turning into America`s number one terrorists. Bring our men back so they can fight the cops.

  • Drew||

    How can you not tell if you have been shot or not ?

  • Viet Nam Vet||

    Death by SWAT for veterans with PTSD.
    What did you expect him to do after two tours when people with guns attact hin?

  • ||

    Did anyone else find this statement FUCKING BIZARRE!?!?

    "Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by."

    GIVE IT A REST ALREADY! Why in the fuck would they compare this marine to Osama Bin Laden?

    Ron Paul 2012

  • Rae||

    Right? Will the real journalists please stand up? What crap.

  • ||

    "Why in the fuck would they compare this marine to Osama Bin Laden?"

    Maybe because he was treated the same way.

    IOW, the victim here is not being compared to Bin Laden in any way, the situation of his killing is.

    You don't think it's a sorry state of affairs when an honorably discharged veteran is treated the same as the contry's prime enemy.

  • ||

    People are going to have to take preemptive action against police departments. The only way to stop these kinds of crimes is to shoot the cops on sight. They drive about in uniforms most of the time and are very easy to identify and mark. Police stations are very easy to find and demo as proven in many other countries. A reduction in their numbers on the order of 50% is probably required. My guess is after multiple attacks, they will want to negotiate and figure out new tactics. Killing them has a way of opening their eyes.
    Timothy McVeigh may have had the right idea. Perhaps some of Jose Guerena's fellow soldiers will come home and even the score. I bet they could take down the sheriff’s swat team in no time, killing every last one of them.

  • ||

    I too hope this comes to pass. Maybe they should knock the hinges off the door to the local PD at an odd hour and treat them all like the terrorists they are.

  • ||

    To compare US law enforcement with the US military is ignorant. 1) Military has VERY restrictive laws prohibiting this sort of cowboy antics. When it has happened the participants have been brought up on UCMJ charges and usually are convicted then sent to prison. (see fallujah for example) Even after the fact if there is accusation then steps are taken to prosecute and prevent it from happening again. 2) SWAT on the other hand (as well as the FBI, ATF, and DHS) say "oh well we thought the info was good...." then immediately go into CYA mode. Sadly both examples are bad outcomes, but only one shows what "professionals" do to maintain their standards & training. What it speaks to that non-combatants in foreign countries have more civil rights/recourse than US citizens under their own law enforcement is frightening.
    For all the posters who are bashing the Military... here's a heads up for you. The Military swears to uphold the Constitution, and follow orders of the Commander in Chief (not Congress). IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY ARE DOING VOTE AWAY THE LYING SCUM THAT SEND THEM INTO ILLEGAL (LYBIA, HIT THAT 60 DAYS TODAY)/ LEGAL WARS.

  • Rae||

    This is a terribly written article. We got the "who" and "where" and "when" and a bit of the "what" but where is the "why and how?" Why did SWAT target this guy? I mean, I can make assumptions that he was involved in doing/selling drugs but it doesn't say that at all in the article. And he had a weapon in his hand...why? Was he awoken from sleep? Because many former combat vets have PTSD and still keep weapons with them when they sleep as a sort of comfort and he may have been right back in Iraq if feeling threatened. Media today sucks.

  • ||

    This whole article pisses me off. First this Marines death is compared to osama bin ladens death. Then I find out that he was killed by the very police force that is suppossed to protect him while he is not protecting them overseas. The truth needs to come out if he was innocent. Someone needs to get fryed for this.

  • Wolfen||

    Agreed, Cavanaugh is an idiot for that comparison, I can only hope they get what they deserve, I got a feeling it's going to be a case of mistaken identity. Hopefully, someone can get an investigation going B4 the police department has a chance to bury too much of their misdeeds

  • ||

    And the Illionis supreme court just ruled you have no right to refuse police entry to your house. They can come in any time they want, for no reason.

    Obama and the idiot liberals are turning our country into a police state.

    Wake up, America!!!!

  • ||

    To: Cathy

    "And the Illionis supreme court just ruled you have no right to refuse police entry to your house. They can come in any time they want, for no reason.

    Obama and the idiot liberals are turning our country into a police state.

    Wake up, America!!!!"

    Cathy, I think it is you who should wake up and you also might want to research a little before you speak. As to the ruling, your correct, as to attributing that to the liberals, time for a fact check.

    Here we go: "In a 3-2 decision, Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer’s entry."

    Now the first thing we note is that writing for the majority is none other than Justice Steven H. David, a judge appointed by none-other than your Rep Governor, Mitch Daniels.

    Should be enough said to shut your liberal label on anything you don't want to actually look at in depth...but just for kicks, lets go further.

    Lets look at the history of this republican appointed justice writing for the majority..and I quote:

    "Steve David practiced in law firms in Columbus, where he focused on personal injury, family law, and civil litigation, and he later became in-house counsel for Mayflower Transit, Inc."

    Does this person sound like there qualified to determine constitutional law Cathy? Since he was appointed by a republican you probably do, but trust me he really isn't. Liberals as you label them, don't want police coming in whenever they want. Now that you realize this is a fanatical right thing, you probably are all for it now.

    So Cathy, I think you need to understand this, when you hire an person (who may be a very nice guy) and put him in a role he isn't really qualified for...you generally should expect a very poor results...ie, George W. Bush...

    I think the problem is, is that you folks go with all gut, and no brains.
    Just sayin...the results speak for themselves.

    Have a nice day Cathy, and for goodness sake, read something today....anything.

    reply to this

  • Catey||

    Actually, I wouldn't say it's the liberals or conservatives, but almost the entirety of the government that's at fault for taking away our rights. Choosing either the left or the right is a false dichotomy that you both seem to be playing into. You need to look at the big picture. If you read back through certain laws in history, you'll find that senators and presidents of every political party (just about) has made a decision that has negatively impacted the rights of the American people. You have to judge politicians on an individual basis. Too bad most of them suck.

  • ||

    I lived in tucson for 7 years and the sheriff dept was a joke. dupnik is a thief and his wife drives illegly on prescription drugs a felony in arizona. how do i know this ? she ran into the back of my car at a stoplight and the state trooper refused to assist and the deputy sheriff came and said good luck cause i aint gonna lose my job. even my insurance company knew she was driving illegally but wouldnt pay for the repairs. after that i became an harassed citizen prompting my move out of arizona.f u pima and az.

  • Wolfen||

    First of all, your service is appreciated, & i give kuddos for your years of service, but to call these yahoos people of the same caliber is a huge mistake. Were you not taught, not to fire blind? I sure the hell was, they heard a shot and all opened fire. It was one of there own that mistakenly fired it, not the victim. Secondly, they didnt allow paramedics to touch the victim for 1 hr, 14 minutes after the hail of bullets, that sound like normal OP to you? not to me. I'm sure there will be many more details of misconduct coming out in the future, hopefully B4 they get a chance to bury any of the evidence against them, they should all be prosecuted

  • ||

    This a very stupid, stupid tragedy. Some heads down there in Arizona need to roll. These asshole SWAT dorks go to the wrong house, kill the wrong guy and make sure he dies by preventing the paramedics from helping him? They all need to be arrested ASAP. If we can not trust our own police, do we want the USA to be another Guatemala? Colombia? I am quite sure, even police in Mexico are not as stupid as these fools from this Arizona SWAT team.

  • ||

    scared that is why they go off like that. not to professional is it.

  • ||

    You make me sick! You trigger happy goons. Now cover your asses like the lieing dogs that you are. You weren't worthy to lick that mans boots and somehow you've killed him. A veteran,a father,a husband and a son. Bow your heads and resign. For the rest of your days you can try to justify yourselves and I pray you find no comfort and the only justice you need is the same you gave. F*!% YOU!

  • ||

    I wouldn't give those SWAT jackholes an opportunity ... Take away a life of one of my fellow Marines because they had an itchy trigger finger? They need punishment!

  • jim||

    He prolly had weed,we all kno how dangerous those weed heads are!!

  • John Griggs||

    Seems the SWAT team received training from their colleagues in Las Vegas, who gunned down West Point graduate Erik B. Scott in front of his girlfriend in a crowded Costco.
    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/.....ected=true

  • ||

    Unfortunately these days the police do "No Knock" warrants, and to a homeowner the experience is the same as a regular home invasion.

    What can the homeowner do? If they shoot back and its the cops, the homeowner goes to jail. If the homeowner doesn't and its home invaders, they will get robbed and probably killed.

    The only option these days (if you want to live...) is shoot first and ask questions later. No matter what happens the corrupt police will blame you for it anyway.

    No-Knock warrants need to be banned.

  • ||

    This is bad, how do I know? Because the so called "authorities" cant get and keep their stories straight. There comes a point, policeman or marine or whatever, that if you cross a line you are going to be held accountable. Cant handle that? Then don't apply for the job.

    This Swat team obviously needs to be disbanded, and rebuilt from scratch. How many rounds were cut in that house? And the "suspect" didn't fire even one!

    I understand the allegiance, but someone is going to prison for this, and deservedly so.

  • ||

    I think that is so awful what is this world cooming to that police attact our soldiers in there home when just got back from irag? this police force needs a complete overhall !!!!! i don;t think i will trust any of them again!!

  • ||

    Wow! and we are supost to feel safe with half cocked SWAT shooting off rounds at the first sign of trouble??! This is was GOOD training is for! SWAT should not be trigger happy nor should they alow any one of any reason bleed out!

  • ||

    That is so frigin f***d up. I hate cops they just think because they have a badge and a gun they can do whatever to whoever, and there will be no fallout. Maybe we the people should put together a group that polices the police. If that where my son they murdered I would not stop until each and every last one of them has felt the same pain ten times fold.

  • A Marine||

    This is disturbing to put it mildly.
    This is the American business model in action. Use you then plant you.

  • stephanie||

    WTF. This is how we treat our soliders who risk their lives for us.
    There's too much MISSING from this story. Hope she sues the shit out of them!

  • stephanie||

    WTF. This is how we treat our soliders who risk their lives for us.
    There's too much MISSING from this story. Hope she sues the shit out of them!

  • A Marine||

    This is disturbing to put it mildly.
    This is the American business model in action. Use you then plant you.

  • A Marine||

    This is disturbing to put it mildly.
    This is the American business model in action. Use you then plant you.

  • A Marine||

    This is disturbing to put it mildly.
    This is the American business model in action. Use you then plant you.

  • ||

    Marine4Life I think you are in a little bit of a fog! They clearly had not reason to raid his home, and now he is dead???!!!! My son is a Marine and I totally understand the jobs the Marines and Swat Team have, but they also have to have the correct home..Now there are two babies and a women with no father or husband to be there..And did you forget the part of he also being a Marine..If I am not mistaken being a Marine HOW THE HELL COULD HE BE IN THIS KIND OF TROUBLE THAT WOULD CAUSE HIM DEATH?? Damn shame two tours in Iraq and he dies from the mistake of SWAT...The training has nothing to do with this it is the mind set of this SWAT TEAM and apparently it was already to KILL NOT CAPTURE!

  • ||

    Another sad story that should've never happened. SWAT is 100% responsible for the tragedy they caused and I hope they are all pulled from duty. To not render any medical help also is sickening. My heart and prayers go out to his family. Very sad all around.

  • ||

    they better all charged with breaking and entering, assault, murder, etc

  • rod||

    Love always prevails...... Not Marines Not swat teams NOT KILLING!!!! LOVE Always Prevails.......

  • ||

    The stirrer of this article is WRONG claiming 'the Government' intruded into their .. This is NOT the Government.
    Isn't this that cRAZY Sheriff in AZ and all AZ's corrupt Government that HAtE Government?
    Why would citizens ever vote in Anti-Gov ppl into the Gov.
    The Gov. In AZ is part of the privatizing prisons there for kick-backs.
    This is what US citizens have to look forward to, with these freaky Repubs an Tea-baggers.
    They are hateful racists that need to fill privatized prison beds to get payed with tax payer money, even though they hate the Government.
    Wake up ppl!!!

  • ||

    To: Cathy

    "And the Illionis supreme court just ruled you have no right to refuse police entry to your house. They can come in any time they want, for no reason.

    Obama and the idiot liberals are turning our country into a police state.

    Wake up, America!!!!"

    Cathy, I think it is you who should wake up and you also might want to research a little before you speak. As to the ruling, your correct, as to attributing that to the liberals, time for a fact check.

    Here we go: "In a 3-2 decision, Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer’s entry."

    Now the first thing we note is that writing for the majority is none other than Justice Steven H. David, a judge appointed by none-other than your Rep Governor, Mitch Daniels.

    Should be enough said to shut your liberal label on anything you don't want to actually look at in depth...but just for kicks, lets go further.

    Lets look at the history of this republican appointed justice writing for the majority..and I quote:

    "Steve David practiced in law firms in Columbus, where he focused on personal injury, family law, and civil litigation, and he later became in-house counsel for Mayflower Transit, Inc."

    Does this person sound like there qualified to determine constitutional law Cathy? Since he was appointed by a republican you probably do, but trust me he really isn't. Liberals as you label them, don't want police coming in whenever they want. Now that you realize this is a fanatical right thing, you probably are all for it now.

    So Cathy, I think you need to understand this, when you hire an person (who may be a very nice guy) and put him in a role he isn't really qualified for...you generally should expect a very poor results...ie, George W. Bush...

    I think the problem is, is that you folks go with all gut, and no brains.
    Just sayin...the results speak for themselves.

    Have a nice day Cathy, and for goodness sake, read something today....anything.

  • Vet123||

    This swat team should be disbanded and face murder charges.

  • Catey||

    A lot of government and "civil" servants should face charges for a lot of things: murder, rape, extortion, treason. You name it. But they won't. They don't hold themselves to the same standards as the rest of us "peons". How often do you hear of someone in the service of the government going to prison? Surely there are just as many criminals in the employ of the government as there are with the rest of the country.

  • ||

    This is what the county posted and still shows on this incident: (Notice the falsee claim that he shot at them) On May 5, 2011, at approximately 9:30 a.m., the Pima Regional SWAT Team was serving a search warrant at the 7100 block of S. Redwater Dr.

    The SWAT Team entered the residence and was confronted by Jose Guerena (26), who shot at them with an automatic AR-15 assault rifle. SWAT members returned fire, striking the suspect. Jose Guerena was pronounced deceased at the scene.

    Also in the residence were the suspect’s wife and 4 year old son. They were not injured during the warrant service.

    The investigation continues.

  • ||

    How about that. "They were not injured during the raid". Nahhh, husband/father gets gunned down and dies unattented in a pool of his blood and the wife and kid aren't injured. Oh you mean they weren't gunned down as well. I got it. THANK YOU Pima County.

  • Will||

    hope all cop pigs burn in hell for their unprofessional cowardess careers... burn piggy burn, another good Marine downed by half-tard pigs

  • ||

    I have been both also, I have trained hard in both duties, and there was times I have did very little. Until you walk in these shoes, don't make judgements on things you don't know about until you have been THERE.

  • ||

    i cant believe this they thought he was shooting at them he was fucking sleeoing.. all you cops think you can do what ever you want cause you have a gun and a badge .you aint nothin but bitches , and now you want a law where you dont need a warrant to come in to any bodys home..very unconstitutional.. maybe if you would have used your fuckin brains that young man wouldnt have been killed, no drugs in his house why the fuck were you there in the first place. you damn dummys..

  • ||

    i dont give a fuck if yo9u have a warrant or not i wont let you in my house ,you mite shoot me if i do ..

  • ||

    But who is "Guerera", and why was Guarena in his house?

  • Iowan||

    They likely held off rescue crews to guarantee fatality. That way it is the cops word against no one. The police are a menace. Bullies with a badge!

  • Melius Cordovba||

    Eliminate the military AND the police. You cannot fix stupid and most military and police are not that bright... that's why they CHOOSE to fight, their stupidity outweighs their natural instinct for self-preservation. Do away with all military and police.

  • Melius Cordovba||

    Eliminate the military AND the police. You cannot fix stupid and most military and police are not that bright... that's why they CHOOSE to fight, their stupidity outweighs their natural instinct for self-preservation. Do away with all military and police.

  • ||

    How about we work on a way to reduce the chance that anyone else is senselessly murdered. If we can not find a way to fix the problem then we will only have more terrible incidents like this one. The Local PD needs to admit they goofed, make reparations to mrs Guerena, and work hard to re-train this group in appropriate house clearing. My condolences to Mrs Guerena and her son.

  • Clftn||

    cowards. thats all i can say.reason with it all you want, whatever helps you sleep. police are cowards.

  • ||

    Land of the Free

    Say it over and over to forget about Big Brother.

  • ||

    Man I feel sorry for what happend. The "SWAT" teams has a lot of explaining to do! I have to say this in regards to Marines. I was in the Army, got out, but I was in Iraq for 3 years, and on my second year here in AFG. I worked with the Marines down in Leatherneck, I have to say the Marines forever have my respect. Great bunch of guys, and take thier mission very seriously. I think the "SWAT" team might have really screwed up on thier intel on this Marine, and if it is wrong, I hope they pay for it dearly.

  • ||

    I have had first hand experience with SWAT myself...sitting on my couch playing cards with my daughter when the apartment next door was raided. When I heard gun shots I tried to leave the apartment with my daughter only to be forced (at gunpoint) back inside where bullets were coming through the ultra thin walls.....
    The man they shot? My neighbor who had an ounce of pot and came into the living room when they burst in the apartment with a steak knife in his hand....he had been cooking dinner. I never heard the words "Drop your weapon" only the firing of guns.. My neighbor was shot 6 times......18 bullets were found IN MY APARTMENT...one in the couch where I had been sitting with my daughter.
    Although I respect the police and the law...this could have been even more tragic than it was. It could have been my innocent daughter with a bullet through her forehead for sitting on her couch.
    Oh and the neighbor? Dead...6 shots....he was 68 years old. His warrant? A hot check.
    I think that maybe there is a common thread and maybe the people on the SWAT teams should work a little harder at the "protection of innocents" part of their job. Not to mention the trauma my daughter suffered because of this...we won't go into that.
    And being the daughter of a Marine my self... I can say police or no police if some one would have aimed a gun in a house where my mother and I were....my father would have done all he could to defend it....so think on that as well. And if these people were SWAT....wouldn't they know that too? Just saying...if you do your home work you would know that HUMAN nature is protect those you love...add Marine to that and it should have been "proceed with caution" not "go in with guns blazing"...and lets not even get into how it is stupid to carry out a SWAT warrant with loaded guns and tense situations and not have an AMBULANCE there...I mean what if one of the SWAT members is shot? Tough luck for him too?
    That poor poor man and his family. After all he did for his country on crappy pay, in crappy conditions...this is how he is thanked.

  • ||

    it is just sad they killed this man
    they now seem to be covering the whole thing up with lie's
    these swat guys the whole team needs be fired and charged with murder
    no amount of money will bring him back
    really over a hour for med help wow
    that alone said we are going to make sure you die
    they did this knowing what they had done and yes med could have helped him a whole 60 seconds after being shot let alone get him to a hospital
    sad day even the two dispatchers had a hand in this they all should go and they all are liable for the results
    looks like Arizona has yet another black eye
    sisterofanofficer you need to stop being a liar also youu're brother makes far more money then most do id say to the tune of around 100k a year or more as my sister in law makes 70 to 80 and she is just a beat cop so perhaps look at his tax returns before you tell lie's not all cops are bad just most cops id say 70 30

  • ||

    Fire those responsible and see to it that their poor judgement never again graces the streets in any official capacity. They just killed an American hero.

  • ||

    THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I FLY MY AMERICAN FLAG UPSIDE DOWN,THIS GREAT COUNTRY IS INDEED IN TROUBLE.THE COPS THINK THEY ARE GODS,AND FELLOW AMERICANS KNOWINGLY DO NOT SUPPORT THE POLICE,BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'RE SHIT DON'T STINK.ITS A SAD DAY WHEN AMERICANS,GET GUNNED DOWN AT HOME,REGUARDLESS.....

  • FallujahMarine||

    Marine4life how can you be a pig first and Marine second. And sisterofaofficer, we lost the war on drugs and your brother must work a shitty area cause I think she sucks so calm down tasty cakes. There are 2 boys you will grow up without their father and now a widow. Defend people who were neglagent. I was an 0311, I have been shot 5 times and still love the corps. How does one speak against other marines?

  • Catey||

    I say we all stop bickering and blame the supreme court justices. The government is trying to take your rights. That's where where the real blame lies.

  • ||

    You know ppl Everyone is blaming everyone, But REMEMBER THIS A woman and her to small son's just lost a husband and father. Those boys will never get to know their daddy, and the mom will have to raise them all by herself and Mother and Father, so PLEASE SHOW SOME RESPECT........... These people are Hurting

  • ||

    I read a book called Discipline and Punish by Foucault that I wish all Americans would read and be familiar with. Another book, Consiliance by E.O. Wilson, should be required reading for graduating high-schoolers. Although the article doesn't say, I think we can assume this was a drug raid gone wrong. Prohibition and massive ignorance killed this young man in front of his family. And since the church-spawned temperance league is behind the intolerance in drug and alcohol use and much of the ignorance I can only hope they all rapture today so the rest of us can get some peace and back to rational discourse on the unsustainable situation we all find ourselves in today. Basically, our rights are all revoked by a "protection scam" Eisenhower warned us about and our "representatives" and judicial supreme went ahead and implemented. A deep brainwashing has occured in the US sustained by ignorance, faulty assessment and evaluation of the myriad of discourses underlying basic assumptions we all have about govt and society. Read Foucault, Wilson, Dawkins, Pascal Boyer, etc...and seek solid, replicable, observable knowledge and learning. Only then will tragic situations like this have any chance of being avoided.

  • ||

    First and foremost, my condolences to Jose's wife and young son. Mrs. Guarena, I am so sorry.

    This military attack against a civilian is not unprecedented these days, as the above testimonies assert. The militarizing of the police departments is an official government policy and is reinforced by TV shows glorifying police brutality and murder. Top Cops is a prime example of desensitizing the American people to illegal and unacceptable police conduct.

    Enough said right?! Wrong!!! Mr. Guarena was denied medical attention!? From what was stated about this police murder is that Guarena was no longer a threat, if he ever was a threat. Why did authorities withhold medical attention for one hour and fourteen minutes?!!!

    I'll tell you why! They screwed up and murdered an innocent man and they knew it right then and there! So allowing Mr Guarena to bleed to death was a convenient way to cover their tracks. Dead men don't talk at least they hoped the dead man wouldn't expose their treachery. However modern investigation techniques and forensics allows the dead to tell their story.

    If the facts turn out to support the belief that this attack was unwarranted it would do well to serve notice to future officers and their superiors regarding such raids, these murderous officers and the captain and/or mayor that gave the order to raid Mr. Guarena's home in a military style attack should be publicly tied to a whipping post and beaten with a bullwhip so severely that their body functions and co-ordination will no longer serve them properly. I know a man who is excellent with a bullwhip....good day. Semper Fi

    One last word... again, Vanessa, I am so sorry for you and your son's loss... Justice will be served if not in this life certainly in the next. Your husband's split blood has not gone unnoticed by God.

    "Vi Veri Veriunum Vicus Vici"

  • Theevilspellbinder||

    Just one more case showing that cops are basically worthless. I hope she sues the city and PD into oblivion.

  • ||

    you will see one day who will come on top.!

  • ||

    SWAT....Someone Without Aney Traning Guidlines without humanity thought your all a joke. try us in an areu that your not use to. its not swat its swamp.suberban area who cant do that.right to right left to left .

  • Jack||

    for those Marines demand respect and support the shooting of there fellow Marine, you have my respect because you carry a gun and wear a uniform.

    But please don't ask me to respect you for gunning down innocents, just because it's dangerous. You're engaged in the eternal, never winning never ending drug war, because it puts more money in the pockets of rich men. Not for any upstanding moral reason.

    So yeah, put a gun in my face, I'll tell you I respect you. But you folks gunned down this Marine for profit, not because it was the right thing to do.

  • brando||

    "But please don't ask me to respect you for gunning down innocents" --> Who is saying that?

  • ||

    just for a game no harm intended

  • Jack||

    If we lived in a Constitutional Republic, this would be a crime. Good thing for the SWAT team that we aren't.

  • Jack||

    Is it safe to assume that the denial medical attention, and spending one hour and fourteen minutes watching a man die, is part of the standard SWAT training?

  • brando||

    Is that a real question?

  • ||

    now you got jokes.

  • ||

    This is an absolute travesty! An honorable Marine shot to death by those who have sworn to serve and protect! Isn't this the same Sheriff's Department that bungled the Jared Loughner shooting? It seems that Sheriff Dupnik is seriously incompetent and should be recalled, thrown out of office! The members of the SWAT team who were responsible for this man's death, should be brought up on charges! His widow, if she is smart, will own Pima county after this! If I were her, I would also file wrongful death lawsuits against everybody who participated in this raid. A similar incident like this happened in the county where I live, Washington County, OH, several years ago. Unfortunately, there was a cover-up and when all was said and done the widow ended up with a small settlement, definitely nowhere near what she should've received. The members of the SWAT team got away with it.

  • ||

    Sounds like an inside job to me... probably knew about things he shouldn't have.. oh yup.. i love the government.

  • Laurel||

    This is absolutely disgusting. I hope every man on that SWAT team never gets a sound night's sleep again. I will never respect the Arizona law forces. Ever. A misfire? Maybe you should train your officers. You should be proud you even got to step near a Marine. He was obviously one million times the man any of those SWAT men will ever be.

  • ||

    I agree with this 100 percent. He wass over 1 million times the man that they would ever be. I dont think that them combined could compare. It really aggravates me to read sad stories about our men getting killed just because we got people like SWAT killing them because their paranoid.

  • ||

    How are we supposed to feel safe when we got people like SWAT killing our military. What if the kid walked in the way. would they even care.

  • ||

    How are we supposed to feel safe when we got people like SWAT killing our military. What if the kid walked in the way. would they even care.

  • Ashley Willis||

    This is disgusting. This marine served our country, helped make millions safer from terrorists, and our own people killed him for NO REASON! I hope that his wife goes after them with everything she has. My prayers are with her and her son, for comfort and healing, and also that they get the retribution they deserve. How do you tell a young child that his father died for NO REASON??? I would be FURIOUS!

  • Mike||

    You guys are all missing the point and its sad. The real question is how did the sherrifs department get a warrent to seach houses indiscriminately. It seems like their logic is that if one house in the city has drugs they have the right to ignore the 4th ammendment and search every single house. The SWAT team may have been jumpy but if you have every gone and visited one of thier training exhibitions you will realize that they are trained to respond to agression with stonger force. If you are shot at once you shoot back until you clip is dry. The idea is that you dont want a derranged lunatic kill you, your team members or any other civilians. Unfortunately this reaction of force was precipitated by an accidental discharge by a fellow officer. Its a tragedy in the truest form but making derogatory blanket statements about several hundread thousand people who die for us on a day to day basis trying to protect us just as military service men do is simply ignorant.

  • Amakudari||

    Its a tragedy in the truest form but making derogatory blanket statements about several hundread thousand people who die for us on a day to day basis trying to protect us just as military service men do is simply ignorant.

    Uh, what?

  • wasNOTthere||

    It's amazing how much everyone has to say. First of all, I'm sorry for the wife and kid(s) of this dead Marine. They are the true victims of this sad tragedy. Having had served in Afghanistan, Iraq & done plenty of high risk entry, I have seen my fellow Marines died in combat. I have also come face to face with subjects with guns in law enforcement. Its not easy to have to make a life or death decision in a fraction of a second. It's easier to look at it from this angle, but until you are there, we don't know. I can tell you that we don't know all the facts. Either way you look at it, The true victims are the families of the fallen, here or over seas. I have been in incidents where I shot a single shot and others where I emptied my magazine. Even though I don't agree with the outcome of this incident (why wasn't it a surround call-out) and I would like to know what the reason was for this warrant, I will never Monday night quarterback any of this officers for their actions, because I was not there at the time that it occurred. Just like when civilian courts charged Marines with war crimes that allegedly occurred in Iraq. Bottom line, If you were not there at the time, you should not judge. There is a bunch of factors that play into it and we will never known them, unless you were there or have the miss fortune of having to investigate or render judgment.
    Semper Fi

  • nobiggietheworldendsmay21||

    You are right, there is no reason for us to judge these men in uniform or second guess their actions... I'm sure the deceased deserved to be pumped full of bullets and denied medical treatment... FAIL!

  • V||

    How can such imbeciles be given a weapon and called a swat team?!?!?!?! They thought the victim shot at them? They thought the debris from the bullet going into the door jam was blood?!?!?!?! What idiots!

  • Tamural||

    For a website called "reason.com" you guys sure are falling for this whole "honor and dignity military romanticism" thing. It's actually kind of repulsive.

  • Tamural||

    I understand the point of the article is that an innocent man was unjustly killed by a bunch of goons, but his background has nothing to do with this.

  • Amakudari||

    It's a bluff, more to poke the true military romantics who often support this paramilitary bullshit in the eye.

    At least that's how I've always read it.

  • ||

    you murderous inept lying ass-holes. poor family

  • vietnam tours||

    Sure you are, pal.
    These heavily armed girl scouts, fire 71 rounds after a negligent discharge,
    by one of their own.

  • George Anton||

    Fuck you and your wars :) PEACE

  • ||

    What a bunch of idiots. These pigs better stand trial for murder, although we all know they'll get a paid vacation, and a medal. America has become so incredibility dangerous from militarized police who can't control their weapons, are completely incompetent, don't give a sh!t because they know the courts are corrupt and do anything. The real terrorists are our government. Cops only protect and serve the elite, and only enforce government's control policies. How much different than Nazi Germany are we?

  • ||

    The citizens of this Nation are going to see more and more of this kind of 'mistake' as they allow the government to slowly convert their local police departments into quasi-military units. If it still isn't obvious to you, the Federal gov't has started to regard the citizenry as the enemy to be controlled or put down. The Nation-wide militarization of the police is occurring simply because the Feds aren't supposed to use military forces here except in extreme circumstances. The militarization of the police Nation-wide is a way to subvert those intentions without changing those laws, just like the National Guard replaced State militias so those troops could be sent overseas (the Nat'l Guard is NOT a State militia, even if they sell themselves as such, and may be used in that role. State militias were not allowed to be sent overseas).
    Anyway,the present state of our country has slowly began to resemble Nazi Germany of the 1930s. We are regarded as something to be controlled and manipulated. Freedom as our ancestors knew it is being replaced by this attitude and treatment and it is only going to get worse unless people stand up to it, but most people are cowards- so that won't happen.
    It does seem to me though, that since cops are starting to carry automatic weapons then the citizenry should also have access to them- otherwise the 2nd Amendment will mean NOTHING because the government will have such overwhelming firepower that anything we have will equate to a pop-gun in comparison. How then are we to protect ourselves when the government begins to be tyrannical?

  • ||

    This is the price you pay for allowing your country to be over run with drugs and drug dealers. The police are over whelmed with too many violent criminal drug addicts. Their first commitment is to protect themselves and take the criminals down,,,, If you want to make it better ,,,, turn in your neighbors who are selling you the drugs and clean up your own neighborhoods,,,,,,, and the wife called 911 and spoke some foreign language over the phone ....... maybe that was part of the delay,,,,,,, she should have spoken english so people can understand her

  • ||

    Makes you wonder how these chronic liars and useless bags of incompetent shit sleep at night.

  • ||

    The cop's are going to have an "internal investigation" which we all know is another way of saying "cover-up" and "white wash". Just remember, they're PIG's and PIG's are dirty.

  • ||

    My big brother to served two tours in iraq. He retired and was home in ohio for 2 yrs then he passed away without any warning. We CANNOT control what our neighbors are going to do or sell. I agree with semperfi, it's going to get covered up like not a damn thing happened. I'm sick to my stomache thinking that these are the kind of people we look to, to PROTECT AND SERVE my ass.... More like con and screw over...

  • ||

    ok let me start off by saying if someone busted in my door with a gun you bet your ass they would be met with .40...i dont care who you are!!! i think anybody put in that situation would do the same if they had sound enough mind to protect their home!! with that said my husband is not only a Marine whom has served 3 different tours overseas but is now also a Federal Police officer! not all Police officers deserve to be called "PIGS" i know my husband doesn't...on top of that you'd be surprise just how many veteran actually come home and join their local police force! all that said, what happened is ridiculous and it shouldn't have at all!! its unforgivable and quite excessive to say the very least...it makes me sick to my stomach! but it's also VERY unfair to lump all police officers and such in the category of "dirty pigs" cause it's just simply NOT true!!!!

  • Obbop||

    The FBI sharp-shooter who murdered the unarmed mother cradling her infant at Ruby Ridge, Idaho did it with but one shot.

    I believe the FBI agent is retired now, receiving his taxpayer-paid pension, health care etc that will always be there, guaranteed,at an amount typically well above pension payouts in the private sector IF you are in one of the steadily decreasing number of folks in the private sector who can even find a job offering a pension or health insurance.

    Our ruling masters ensure their lackeys, jack-booted thugs, etc. are well-taken care of to ensure their loyalty to isolate the ruling class from the masses of despised commoners whose patriotic duty is to always OBEY!!!!!!!!!

    OBEY the ruling class and corporate USA.

    Anger or create fear within the rulers and/or their lackeys and you, too, may die to "save the USA."

    USA history offers ample proof you MUST OBEY!!!!!!!!!!

  • Expert Witness||

    Bet it wasn't what you think it was. http://www.expertwitnessradio......ommentary/

  • Obbop||

    Note the crowd of buffoons getting to play "fearless soldier" and "great warrior" who attacked what the USA federal government labels as a "compound" in their constant propaganda for the USA's elites to maintain their status quo as our RULERS.

    Anyway, I was saddened to read comments by those so well-indoctrinated by the life-long propaganda/brainwashing/indoctrination we are all immersed within.

    AN elite-owned mass media and even most of the public and private educational systems are used to push propaganda, to often leaving much truth by the wayside.

    Not surprising since the bureaucrats, teachers, etc. are indoctrinated and brainwashed themselves.

    And those folks also obtain their pay, pension and perks by accepting the need to conform, fit in, and toss aside consideration for We, the People, as they purposefully or inadvertently assist the ruling class elites, corporate USA and special-interest groups are maintained and the status quo so valuable to the ruling class is protected and continued.

    Yes, I entered the "educational" bureaucracy and was disgusted with what I saw there.

    I departed three years after entering that horrid bureaucracy so beloved by the rulers and their lackeys... politicians.

    Not all politicians but enough with federal-level politicos the most brainwashed of all with apparently the VAST majority at the federal level mere lackey lap-dog puppets of their true masters... those at the apex of the socio-economic pyramid-shaped structure, most big corporations and special-interest groups.

    Today's militarized policed have been indoctrinated with a mind-set that We, the People are the enemy.

    Well, perhaps the TEN PERCENT of habitual criminals ans scum trashy filth are but MOST citizens are basically decent folk.

    Yhe "thin blue line" exists and is encouraged by the RULERS since law enforcement is merely ANOTHER HUGE BLOATED bureaucracy that isolates the rulers from the HUGE mass of mere commoners they skim so much wealth from, get to do their dirty works, fight foreign wars that assist our RULERS keep the citizenry in fear WHEN that emotion assists the elite's.

    An extremely complex topic requiring several several books to adequately explain.

    But seek today's lack of non-fiction book reading within the USA.

    That assists ti increasing number of mentally enslaved USA citizens.

    Consider how Oath Keepers was formed by a few who cast off the brainwashing.

    Others have written short essays, etc.

    Educated yourselves.

    Realize the internalized indoctrination you, me, all of us have undergone our entire lives and will continue to be flooded with!!!

    Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

  • Kari||

    I believe that the former Marine was holding a bologna sandwhich, but that the bologna was expired and no longer good, and that the SWAT guys, who were actually zombies, could smell the rotting meat. They came back, he refused to share his sandwhich...

  • Kari||

    I believe that the former Marine was holding a bologna sandwhich, but that the bologna was expired and no longer good, and that the SWAT guys, who were actually zombies, could smell the rotting meat. They came back, he refused to share his sandwhich...

  • قبلة الوداع||

    thank u

  • The Punisher||

    Where's vigilante justice when you need it?

  • Layna||

    I don't care if he was a vet, or even another officer. You brandish a weapon, REGARDLESS of whether you fire it or not.. and I am going to shoot. We're trained to immobilize a threat, not wait and see if they intend on firing.
    This is sad for the family of the vet, and my hearts go out to them. But in the end, he was the one who made the choice to endanger his own life and those of his family's when he picked up and did not drop the weapon.
    The face that he was a Marine bears no significance on this case; just the media blowing things up again.

  • Layna||

    And as usual, the only police training most of you commenting here have is from sitting at home watching Law and Order and Cop Out. Sorry guys, but this is real life. We weren't there, we will never know all of the details.

  • ||

    We know someone f#$%d up and it was the cops. 71 shots fired and it all started by an accidental discharge. If I'm cleaning my gun and it goes off and kills my neighbor in his living room, guess what? I go to jail. That's one unlucky round, the cops fire 71 rounds and we don't know what happened? A vet died to incompetent police that's what happened.

  • Maria||

    Very sad story, i don`t know why young boys should die in wars. Is it me or the guy in the picture looks like van Damme.

  • Steve||

    Uh, regardless if someone has 'police training' or not, one doesn't need it to attend to logic. One doesn't have to have been either ex-military or current cop to know that there is, and has been since before 2001 btw, an ever increasing emphasis on police trying to be armed or arm themselves just to LOOK like a deterrent, never mind if they can actually be one.

    Three very young men in Arkansas were arressted and charged with the brutal rape and killing of three even younger boys. Every cop in the area was in on the investigation. Last year, after serving 18 years unjustly ( let me trim off 18 years of YOUR life and we'll see how you feel ) prosecute on 'evidence' ( none hard ) cops built around teenagers. The only hard evidence were the hairs, still on file, of two grown men who are far more likely the killers.

    Ah, but a prosecution and being 'the baggers' was way too tempting a promise. Promotions followed, I'm sure.

    The FACT of the matter is, someone who's only served as a sheriff or state trooper or yeah, a S.W.A.T team, are NOT required to endure the rigors that military men and women do. And btw, it's not just tragic our sons serve and die to come home to this faceless accusser and arresters treatment ( and givers of death ), but our daughters as well. They too serve, and die, and get injured and come home to be ignored and killed by police and, sadly, die of exposure and homelessness.

    I could just as easily accuse anyone having an opinion on this story of being 'couch surfers' or whatever it is the last person indignantly insisted must be the case.

    Also, I have known and do know several cops with just enough ignorance to nothing more than bully's with badges. Look behind that badge hard enough, and too often that's exactly the mentality that exists. The thin blue line, indeed. Not all cops, not most. But take a trip through the South sometime and piss off the local Sheriff by talking about Obama out loud at the local diner, and you'll find just how much 'justice' an officer will give you on your way out of town. I've lived in several rural counties in the South and seen first hand the corruption is just as great as any city cop force.

    As many military people screw up, when compared side by side in sheer numbers for dereliction of duty, addiction, domestic violence, corruption, inferiority complexes, paranoia, and plain old piss poor training requirements and those serving as civil servent law enforcement far, far prove out their complexes are well earned. I have even seen the hostility some police feel, especially those who never served the flag in war time thousands of miles from home, resentment and intimidation about servicemen and women. An opportunity to bully a military member, to PROVE,"Hey, this is MY turf!", has been observed more times than I care to reflect on.

    Let's not forget the video of an Oakland cop, in full riot gear, purposely stepping up to fire a damn flare right into the face of a decorated vet who had a sign saying as much. There was NO need and you can dig around on youtube yourself for it if you dare, regardless of what you think about the RIGHT to peaceably protest or agree with the politics thereof.

    This young man, two tours and a wife and small child, was GUNNED DOWN by INCOMPETENT idiots. YOu can decalre all you like otherwise, but SIXTY BULLETS says it all my dear. And if it doesn't, then YOU are the one that need not worry about wether other peoples opinions are based on fact or not. Yours clearly isn't.

    Semper Fi brother. Peace to your wife and child. My hope is they live to see a better world than you came home to and your son makes you as proud as your memory now will make him and have to suffice. All because of a grand 'swat' team.

    gawd help us...

  • ||

    As of May 2011, members of the SWAT team retained criminal defense attorney Michael Storie to represent them. On 13 June, the Pima County Attorney's office released the results of their review of the shooting, determining that the SWAT officers' actions "were reasonable". "Under the circumstances, and based upon our review of all the available evidence, we have concluded that the use of deadly forces by the SWAT Team members was reasonable and justified under the law.

    Let this be notice, the police can kill you and get away with it 99/100 times. If you move, you could be shot, all the officers have to express id that they "thought" something and it will be justified. I "thought" he had a gun. Cops don't have to see o a gun or be shot at they just need to think so. I feel safer already.

  • CZmacure||

    The SWAT Officers should face life in prison or death penalty. Cops need to be held accountable. I wish a rouge Company of Marines would just hunt down cops

  • THE INFIDEL||

    When a Service Member finds it's safer to be on patrol in a war zone, what should they do? It has become obvious that Law Enforcement has become criminals themselves and therefore one must protect themselves. In the resent months, it has become obvious that Law Enforcement has grossly overstepped & increasingly use of excessive force especially the use of deadly force, where does one draw the line and respond to protect themselves?

    I remember one night assisting the Sheriff’s Department with a team en route to a church that has been vandalized several times to hide out inside hoping they would break in. Duke a former Marine who was driving the van, and I was the only two Military Service in the vehicle, the rest where Civilians and all they talked about is how they were going to shoot the intruders, ankle, between the eyes and other graphical shots. Duke and I feared if something went down, this rehearsed scenario would in fact become the outcome and we tried to put an end to the conversation and almost got into a fight with them. Note: The Sheriff’s Department asked Duke and I to assist in this operation to provide guidance and leadership.

    As for any Law Enforcement coming to my house, all I ask is to call me first, I'll have the coffee pot on and the door will be open, no force is needed whatsoever, just a Robert Redford Smile will do, but I will ask to see your search warrant etc first!

    We are not the enemy!

  • THE INFIDEL||

    WHERE'S LA'RAZA!