Zero Tolerance Follies

Jeffersonville, Indiana seventh grader is suspended after turning down drugs offered by a classmate.

Comments

[John]

"The fact of the matter is, there were drugs on school campus and it was handled, so there was a violation of our policy," said Martin Bell, COO of Greater Clark County Schools.

We wanted to know what would have happened if Rachael had told a teacher right away. Bell said the punishment would not have been any different. District officials say if they're not strict about drug policies no one will take them seriously."

And throwing out kids who refuse drugs will get everyone to take you seriously.

[Some Guy]

I really think that a few summary executions of school administrators who do things like this and then try to defend them like that would go a long way toward improving our educational system.

[greenish]

Right, anything less than summary execution and we wouldn't be taken seriously.

[Peppino]

Martin Bell: Douchebag of the Day.

[Pro Libertate]

Man, I don't want my kids doing drugs (or drinking), but I think a more reasonable policy would work (or fail to work) just as well.

Acting this way gives kids no incentive to tell anyone in authority anything, of course, but it also increases--forgive me for saying this--the alienation of kids from teachers and the administration. Which means that all of the kids are now going to be crack whore terrorists.

[Episiarch]

Your kids will do drugs and will drink. We all did; they will too. Better get used to it...dad.

[Pro Libertate]

Little do you know of the power of behavioral conditioning.

[The Great Gadfly]

Is "behavioral conditioning" synonymous with "Brainwashing" or "Brainstaining"?

[Hanyou]

Dude, I don't know what universe you live in, but I've done neither in 23 years.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone is doing "it," whatever "it" happens to be.

[capitol l]

I grew up when all this zero tolerance shit started, and my dad imparted me with some wisdom that is apt for our times. He always repeated 2 things,

1 Watch the heat.
2 Never be a tattle tale, no one likes a tattle tale, especially the people you tattle to.

[Bronwyn]

*looks out office window across the river*

Hey, look! I can see Stupid from here!

[Suki]

How are things in Oakland these days?

[Rabbit Scribe]

That would be a bay, Ptolemy.

[Duncan]

It's ironic that schools use such a tight interpretation of the rules and act like they're lawyers. Laws in this country are generally broadly written (hence the need for precedent) and the intent, not just letter, of the law is important. Somehow these schools seem incapable of making the distinction between the intent and letter of their own rules, while they pretend that they're lawyers.

[Pro Libertate]

You know what we need in the schools? Checks and balances. Obviously, the petty little tyrants in the school system can't handle much power without going batshit insane.

[The Angry Optimist]

Is there anything that can be done with Martin Bell, or should we just euthanize him now? I think he's beyond saving.

[Nick]

I'm surprised there aren't more dead school administrators.

[Tulpa]

Do you mean zombies with school administrator jobs, or administrators of schools for zombies, or perhaps administrators of schools that no longer function?

[wylie]

Dead, not undead, so the zombie options are right out.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

And yet parents who don't want to put their children into the custody and under the tutelage of such morons are deemed "irrational" by our "enlightened" society.

[bagoh20]

Touching = possession. So if she stepped on a pill on the side walk, or someone threw one at her, bang busted.

How do they take the drugs away from the possessor without touching them?

These administrators need to have this stupid zero tolerance stuff turned back on them: If they touch my kid, I'm claiming sexual abuse. If they say "blackboard", I'm claiming racism. See how they like it.

[Tulpa]

It seems you do not understand the power relationships involved. The rules that apply to you and your kids do not apply to our humble public servants.

[Episiarch]

I'm proud of you, Tulpa. This is a good first step. Now, apply this concept to the cops, and you might be getting somewhere.

[Tulpa]

Not really. If this situation were analogous to cop misbehavior, to please the more rash elements here at H&R, I would also have to not only condemn the administrators' actions, but accuse them of child endangerment.

[robc]

All public schools are child endangerment.

[GoNavy]

One of the finest moments in my life was the day my youngest graduated high school (2006). What a weight off my shoulders knowing that I would never have to deal with the petty little Hitlers that run the public school system.

[R C Dean]

The fact of the matter is, there were drugs on school campus and it was handled, so there was a violation of our policy," said Martin Bell, COO of Greater Clark County Schools.

So if an administrator confiscates drugs, aren't they "handling" them in violation of policy? Shouldn't they be fired?

People come into ERs all the time with drugs. I've been asked what ER staff should do with them - leave them on the patient, confiscate them, report the patient to the cops, etc.

My advice is always to flush them. Immediately. My position is that if we confiscate them even to turn them over to the cops, then we are in possession of illegal drugs and committing a felony.

[Michael Ejercito]

So if an administrator confiscates drugs, aren't they "handling" them in violation of policy? Shouldn't they be fired?

Yes.

[Slut Bunwalla]

So if an administrator confiscates drugs, aren't they "handling" them in violation of policy?

It's okay, they wore oven mitts. Didn't really touch the drugs, per se.

[wylie]

Even better:

Recycled-Asbestos Mitts.

[Jimmy SoMo]

Scary, so the school system is enticing kids to be rats and rat out other kids? WHere is the honor in that? Pathetic.

Jess
http://www.fbi-logging.at.tc

[Almanian]

Sweet Jesus, the stupidity. My biggest concern is that schools should help teach people how to think and reason. Even elementary schools. This approach is the opposite - don't think or exercise judgment - "we have a 'rule'". I don't need to pay much for someone to administer that - for no use of judgment, I pay minimum wage. So I don't need Superintendents or other administrators - give me a min wage CETA monkey.

I have to give my state-school teachers credit - they did encourage us to think and use judgment (and accept the good/bad consequences of our decisions and actions) when I was in public schools. These fucktards? teaching kids "STFU or YOU'LL be the one in trouble." Brilliant.

[Almanian]

"monkey" = Racist!!

Got that one myself, thanks!

[old rpm daddy]

Seems to me the school administration is more concerned with covering its posterior against potential lawsuits than it is with finding the truth or administering justice. Their actions remind of the policy of suspending everyone involved in a fight, regardless of who started it or fought back. I can almost hear the thought process: "Gee, this sucks. I know not all the children are guilty, but if I don't suspend everybody, somebody will claim I'm applying double standards, and then we'll get sued." For that reason, I'm more inclined to attribute the school administration's actions to cowardice than to malice.

[Almanian]

Exactly. And stupidity. Takes intelligence to decide "this different action in this case is preferable and warranted for these reasons." Takes no intelligence to decide "you broke teh rules, and the rules are for teh children, so you must suffer."

Cowardly morons. Perfect!

[P Brooks]

Which means that all of the kids are now going to be crack whore terrorists.

See?

A silver lining!

[Spoonman]

Wow. Fuck. That is retarded. Jesus. Cunt. Bitchnipple.

[VikingMoose]

just wow.

[Tulpa]

Greater Clark County School District Administrative Staff List

(note to Reason censors/banners -- publicly available after a simple google search -- don't tase me bro!)

Dr. Stephen Daeschner
Superintendent
[phone] ext. 323

Martin Bell
Chief Operating Officer
[phone] ext. 305

Sandra W. Lewis
General Counsel
[phone] ext. 356

Teresa Stengel
Coordinator of Health Services
[phone] ext. 288

[robc]

Daeschner used to be Superintendent of Jefferson Co, KY schools. Clark is a bid step down. From what I recall, he sucked when he was south of the river too.

[robc]

Daeschner was Superintendent in Louisville from 1993 to 2007 - his contract was not renewed (which sounds like a firing to me). He took some job in Illinois, not sure when he ended up in Clark Co. But hes been moving a lot the last few years.

[Tulpa]

There was also a mini-scandal because about $75,000 of his salary was being paid by private donors whose identity was concealed (so it's possible they were doing business with the district in some way).

It's rare to rely on private contributions to cover a public school superintendent's salary. Dan Domenech, executive director for the American Association of School Administrators, says such steps usually occur when a district is trying to attract high-profile candidates.

Daeschner was being paid $235,000 at the suburban Chicago school district he left to come to Greater Clark.

He received $208,315 in his last year with Louisville's school system.

His replacement there, Sheldon Berman, is paid $270,478, all of which comes from the district's budget.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah, this one's just too damn easy to mock.

[P Brooks]

It's the government; qualitative judgements are unfair and, consequently, strictly verboten.

[Libertymike]

The story does not specify the duration of the girl's possession of the pill. That the pill was in her hand does not necessarily constitute possession, does it?

Remember Bert Emmanuel?

[Pro Libertate]

The receiver?

[Pro Libertate]

At least they changed the rules after that fiasco.

[R C Dean]

That the pill was in her hand does not necessarily constitute possession, does it?

Yep. There is no minimum time limit for possession of drugs.

When the cops arrest someone for possession, most of the time they don't have any inkling how long they actually held the drugs. They are not required to prove any minimum time of possession. Ergo . . . .

[Zeb]

This is about school policy too, not criminal law, so regardless of the legal standards, the school can apparently make up whatever unreasonable rules about this that they want to.

[P Brooks]

But hes been moving a lot the last few years.

If he was a priest, we'd have a pretty good idea why.

[wylie]

But someone who's whole job is about authority over children is LESS suspect?

[Tulpa]

Personally I prefer the NFL rulebook definition of possession. You have to have both feet come down while inbounds, and make a drug-related move with total control of the pill.

[Libertymike]

Exactly. Good to see that we think so alike.

[Tulpa]

Perhaps we agree about drug possession, but we still have different positions on societies that sanction the possession of human beings.

[P Brooks]

"Show me on the doll where the pill touched you."

[SugarFree]

[Sobbing, Sally points at the doll's blood/brain barrier.]

[Zeb]

I assume that over-the-counter drugs like aspirin are also covered by this school's drug policy. So, according to this administrator quoted in the article, a student could go around the school touching everyone in the school with the aspirin tablet without their consent and it would be perfectly appropriate and necessary to suspend every student who came in contact with the aspirin for 5 days.

[Tulpa]

And if secondhand smoke is truly the same thing as firsthand as the health activists tell us, then every student who walks past the teacher's lounge and collides with smoke particles needs to be suspended.

[wylie]

I assume that over-the-counter drugs like aspirin are also covered by this school's drug policy.

Anecdotal Support: Around 1988-89, the 3rd grade, i got in trouble for bringing a multivitamin in my lunch....because like an idiot kid I wasn't discrete enough in my possession and consumption of it. To compound my idiocy, when my curious lunchmates inquired about it i gladly offered it to any of them who wanted it. (I hated swallowing the suckers, especially with chocolate milk.)

If you haven't already guessed the next part....yup, one of the other kids who wasn't lucky enough to win my unwanted vitamin went and tattled. This was before 0-Tolerance though, so they just called in my mom and told us "no more vitamins in school."

And so my vitamins went with dinner after that and i learned a valuable lesson in the importance of discretion.

[Russ 2000]

Lucky bastard. When I was her age, you actually had to do something bad to get suspended. And not having to go to school is a good thing in my book.

[capitol l]

And we had to buy drugs, no one was handing out amphetamines like they were 'mike and ikes'.

Kid's have it too easy nowadays.

[Michael Ejercito]

Note that this sort of shit never happens in the U.S. Military Academy, the U.S. Naval Academy, the U.S. Air Force Academy, the U.S. Coast Guard Academy, or the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, even though they are very strict, and the rules are enforced by the students themselves.

[robc]

The Clark county prosecutor needs to not use his discretion and file possession charges against the administrators who seized the pills. I bet the districts zero-tolerance policy would go away with a felony conviction.

[Franklin Harris]

District officials say if they're not strict about drug policies no one will take them seriously.

You mean like how now no one is taking them seriously?

[wylie]

That's when the assistant principal gave Rachael a decision.

"We're suspending you for five days because it was in your hand," said Rachael.

Huh? *re-reading the surrounding paragraphs in the article*

....Huh?

[rac]

Who are the brain police?

[Bob Smith]

If they exercised judgment, somebody might complain they were being biased, ergo they must exercise no judgment, no matter the absurdity.

There used to be a website, zerointelligence.net, that documented the abusive absurdity of "zero tolerance".

[HARRY ANSLINGER]

the school has some of the worst test scores in Indiana,this type of behavior is typical of school officials that need to divert attention away from lack of a quality education.