The Latest Toyota Recall
Columnist Ron Hart writes in The OC Register:
Toyota has also recalled that sanctimonious, smug look Prius drivers wear when they talk about how they are saving the earth, one trip to yoga class at a time! On the bright side, liberals are now victims, and they love that about as much.
In fact, this problem with electronic braking came about because of federal pressure through CAFE standards, forcing manufacturers to make lighter cars. As they often do, politicians point their fingers at Big Bad Business. Now a memo has come to light showing that Toyota cut a deal with its Washington regulators on the braking issue last year. As is often the case when politicians point fingers, at least three fingers are pointing right back at them.
The stark reality is that the industries we have had the most difficulty with – banking, insurance, airlines, mortgage lending, and now car companies – are the most regulated. Less regulated businesses that are more sensitive to market demands, like Wal-Mart, Coke, Google, Caterpillar and Home Depot, are doing fine.
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Commence sockpuppetry.
How about some sock monkey?
sock monkeytry
The stark reality is that the industries we have had the most difficulty with ? banking, insurance, airlines, mortgage lending, and now car companies ? are the most regulated.
How did you manage to leave Health Care (what we use to call Medical) off the list?
ETA
Toyota has also recalled that sanctimonious, smug look Prius drivers wear when they talk about how they are saving the earth, one trip to yoga class at a time! On the bright side, liberals are now victims, and they love that about as much.
HA! Good one. Nice laugh to start the day 🙂
Don't get me wrong. I am all for saving the earth; it's the only planet known to have bourbon.
That also gave me a chuckle.
unfortunately, that's the only good part of the article. And the only reason why I thought it was funny is beacuse I drive a civic hybrid.
How did heavy equipment get on that list? Aren't they pretty overregulated too?
This is just the latest example of the evil corporations killing us for profit by using advertising to make us buy their deadly products.
+1
Toyota has also recalled...
How does an editor let that one through?
because there's nothing wrong with it
That does it! I'm canceling my subscription!
Wait, I missed the meeting. Are we all canceling?
Seriously, what's wrong with it?
Seriously, what's wrong with it?
Drink the vinegar, scum!
Maybe the commenter is English, and "Toyota has" should be "Toyota have"?
Maybe the commenter needs to be subjected to a little Mozart.
Didn't you know? "Toyota" is the plural of "Toyotum".
Company is singular. Ergo, "Toyota has".
http://www.badlanguage.net/tools-for-.....ide-online
The stark reality is that the industries we have had the most difficulty with ? banking, insurance, airlines, mortgage lending, and now car companies ? are the most regulated.
Yeeeah. Uh, if could just sort of add "education" to that list, that would be greeeat.
/Lumberg
Shut the fuck up, Ron Hart.
You should have known when you brought that Prius that you were going to be made fun of. And did you really think anyone was going to let the daily yoga class slide?
Nothing wrong with yoga. If my gym had a class that I could make, I'd do it. I'd really like to improve my center of balance.
Yoga's fine. It's mostly about what PB wears to class.
I'll do yoga when they teach me how to levitate and lift objects with telekinesis. Until then, forget it.
Well, they're not going to show that stuff to beginners, dude. You could lift a pen and poke someone's eye out.
Well, I'm in full lotus, hovering above my desk, typing this with my mind, so the joke's on you. Ouch!
The internal body cleansing using lubricated cloth doesn't do it for you, PL?
Who would've known
I pick and choose, man.
P Brooks, this one wasn't bad. His last column (in H&R) was all over the place, but he stayed on target with this one, and got a few good jabs.
Yeah, it must be the overhead of regulation that causes safety problems. I mean, look at China. Basically no effective regulation and there certainly haven't been any issues there.
And Coke had to recall 30 million cans about ten years ago due to a health problem.
Yeah, it must be the overhead of regulation that causes safety problems. I mean, look at China.
WTS? What kind of safety problems have we had in the banking industry?
Something bad happened to my Washington Mutual stock. It was sitting there, just doing fine, and then, and then. . .I can't talk about it.
China is totally laissez faire.
Beat me to it. Hey dersk, you're talking about the world's largest fucking government. You think they need to hire more people?
Home Depot is doing fine? Really?
The industry comparison doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Walmart and home depot do not make anything, and most of the items listed are very low-tech/straight forward.
I think the most likely reason why the comparison doesn't make sense is that Ron Hart is dumb.
He's the David Harsanyi of our time!
And of course, I'm canceling my subscription again.
What really pisses me off about the Prius is there's no good place for a gun rack.
It used to come with the 4x4 mod kit. Never sold very well, for some reason.
The 18" lift had a problem with the cord getting wrapped around the axle whenever trying to climb a curbstone.
Little known secret is that Toyota sells a rail gun option for the Prius. Just put it on the top, plug it in, and voil?!, green deathmobile.
Downside: Only enough juice for two shots. Back to the gun rack problem for the backup piece.
Nah, a Prius is easy to aim.
Ha! A similar problem beset Michael Knight when he and KITT had to face off with the evil prototype (which I think was CARR).
Yeah, I dumped pay-TV when I quit my job and moved, so most of what I watch is the Retro TV network...
I'm still having a great deal of trouble understanding how this can be a defect with the cars.
'Unintended acceleration' problems with its 5000 model nearly put Audi out of business in the early 1980s. This is not a problem isolated to a single manufacturer, nor even since electronic throttle controls became prevalent. Audi's 5000 model incorporated a mechanical throttle control.
Then, as now, aside from the accidents, there is no evidence of any mechanical, electronic or software problem with any of the vehicles. Post-crash investigations of involved vehicles have revealed nothing concrete to blame. Granted, some of the vehicles involved in the more serious crashes were damaged enough to prevent a systems inspection, but enough have been inspected to make a statistical analysis possible. To date, investigators have found no recurring, repeatable problem with either electronic throttle controls, nor the brakes in suspect vehicles.
Why do I mention the brakes?
Because the brakes in modern automobiles are many times more powerful than their engines -- the brakes are so powerful, in fact, they can easily stop a vehicle even under full-throttle acceleration.
Which brings to mind this bit of logical thought: If an automobile experiences unintended acceleration that cannot be controlled by the driver's application of the brakes, then two separate systems -- the throttle control and the brakes -- must have failed or malfunctioned simultaneously. Anyone care to calculate the likelihood of such simultaneous system failures?
What more, these phenomenally-unlikely simultaneous failures somehow fix themselves before investigators arrive on the scene.
Which brings to mind Occam's razor. Which of these two scenarios makes the most sense:
1. Two separate modern, computer-controlled electronic systems, the kind in use the world over in such disparate applications as aviation and power grid control, electronic systems designed with fail-safe logic and mechanisms built in to ensure that long-known and studied failure modes do not result in an unsafe condition, two such systems temporarily fail simultaneously, then miraculously repair themselves simultaneously, leaving behind no evidence of their failures.
Or,
2. Something distracts a driver enough (a cell phone conversation, a near collision, trying to read a map, etc.) that (s)he accidentally confuses the accelerator pedal with the brake pedal. When (s)he thinks (s)he is stepping hard on the brake (s)he is actually putting the accelerator pedal to the floor.
Given that Toyota Motor Company is GM's and Chrysler's biggest competitor, that reports of 'unintended acceleration' exist for both GM's and Chrysler's automobiles and that such 'incidents' have been occurring for decades, I find it interesting the 'problem' didn't become a matter for congressional involvement until the U.S. Government became a majority share holder in the U.S. auto industry, and that the focus is on solely on Toyota.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.
If you read any Detroit front pages, the Toyota thing has been huge above the fold for a while now.
I just can't shake the suspicion that the government is taking a known problem and blowing it the hell out of proportion to boost the U.S. auto industry. Especially the part controlled directly by the government.
I fully admit that it may be my bias speaking here, but I just don't see how a quality-driven company like Toyota suddenly becomes, well, GM.
This goes well beyond suspicion. They are blatant about this witch hunt.
Any day/moment the same slime on the hill who are smearing Toyota will be demanding they unionize "to improve quality."
This will end up with massive undeserved fines and be another excuse for card check.
My thoughts exactly. Did a company with a decades-long reputation for quality engineering suddenly forget how to make cars, or did government regulators decide to start making lots of trouble for the largest non-union competitor of the two carmakers they nationalized last year?
Did a company with a decades-long reputation for quality engineering suddenly forget how to make cars?
No, but they've been on an explicit decade-long decontenting program to hold down costs. It's inevitable that this push will introduce more and more problems into their products over time.
Toyota still makes fine cars, but they aren't the over-engineered indestructible tanks they were even just 15 years ago.
For a long time GM cared about selling the most cars, quality and profits were almost an afterthought. Toyota's problems started when they started to make their push to be biggest instead of just letting their reputation for quality propel their growth.
I fully admit that it may be my bias speaking here, but I just don't see how a quality-driven company like Toyota suddenly becomes, well, GM.
Toyota went on a market share rampage the last couple years, trying to become the #1 seller. Apparently, while ramping up production, some quality control issues happened. And now they are paying the price.
I predict they'll get back to being more quality-driven, be a smaller company for a while, and slowly regain the trust of most of the easily scared who are bolting right now.
well, it's probably true that Toyota fucked up big time here, but seriously, if you really did an analysis of GM cars, don't you think you could find something that killed ~10 people and was involved in 300 accidents, over a few million car-decades?
Which scenario makes more sense? To whom? A Jury?
Thank you for spreading disinformation, Mark. That's just not how cars work. I'm glad we could have this conversation.
For future reference, ladies and gentlemen: common hydraulic brakes (not air brakes, electric brakes, whatever) of the type found in a family car are powered by the same force that the engine uses to suck in fuel. The engine produces just enough power for EITHER the brakes OR the throttle. Not both. At full throttle, brakes can NOT regenerate power; after two or three applications, you may as well stop your car Flintstone style.
Thank you for your time.
-.-
I'm canceling my subscription!
And not a moment too soon.
B-b-b-but the green jobs!
With his demonstrable depth of understanding and subtle grasp of the facts, Ron Hart would be a shoo-in for Secretary of Transportation, should Ray LaHood decide to spend more time with his family.
It bugs me that everyone is bothered by GM and Chrysler getting gov't assistance in bankruptcy and will never buy a car from Government Motors, but are totally unaware that:
1) Every Japanese car company got a bailout in the form of financing from a Japanese gov't owned bank last year.
2) The state of Saxony owns a large stake in VW.
3) The French Government bailed out Reneult which has a controlling stake in Nissan.
4) Korean car companies are protected in their home market by huge import barriers.
So which Government Motors are you talking about? VW? Honda? Nissan? GM?
Your right, we should be outraged about having to pay taxes in Japan, Saxony, France, and Korea.
Yes, let us take a moment to thank the peoples of the various car-manufacturing nations of the world for subsidizing our purchases. And to damn our own country for doing the same.
Okay, then what about all of the assistance that local and state governments have given to new plants? When you hear Hayley Barbour (Gov of Miss.) talking about conflict of interest, doesn't he have a conflict of interest after the state's investment in new factories?
Yes, shameful that communities and states offer lower tax rates to lure businesses into their areas. Of course, lowering the tax rates for all would lure more but this is the political mind we are dealing with.
The state of Maryland just discovered they lost a big chunk of their taxable base between 2007 and 2009. They think the cause might be the millionaire tax and are figuring out ways to raise more taxes to make up the difference.
A lot of the time the tax games for new businesses end up fucking over existing businesses. I actually hate special tax treatment more higher taxes that are even for everyone.
And we should imitate these other countries...why?
My next car will be a Toyota. F' the Feds.
Me too. This is only going to lower the price of a quality used car for me.
Yeah, I drive a 2002 GMC Sonoma. My next truck will probably be a Tacoma.
I have a 2006 Tacoma. With a V6 and towing package. I did not get the 4WD option, but it is available. I like my truck very much. Only drawback is it tends to guzzle the gas above 3000rpm (just over 70mph), which is a bummer for highway driving.
I have owned Toyotas since 1986 and have never had a serious mechanical or electrical problem in all that time.
Any full-sized pickup truck will guzzle gas going over 70. Trucks aren't very aerodynamic compared to cars, and the air drag goes up exponentially with speed.
Either slow down, or accept the price you are paying for getting to your destination marginally quicker. If your time is worth enough per hour, then going fast might make economic sense.
Actually, my F150 gets better MPG at 80 mph than it does at 70 or so. Dunno why, but it has proven true many times on long trips. Traveling at 70 or 75 it will get around 17 or 17.5 mpg. Up at 80 mph it will get more like 18 mpg.
At 65 it gets about 15.
Best mpg of all is around 50 or 55 mpg. I actually got up over 19 mpg one time on a country road going about 50 or 55 for a long distance.
Bed cap or not? If no bed cap, gate down or not?
I have an '87 Toyota pickup. It has never undergone "sudden acceleration" in 23 years. Doesn't accelerate at all, really. Any braking issues are the result of the 31" off-road tires.
what about all of the assistance that local and state governments have given to new plants?
Yup. We're all about the crony capitalism, here. What's your point?
My point is that Government subsidies and ownership of American car companies has a very short and recent history, while other car companies have a very long history of state ownership/subsidies/import barriers. Historically American companies have some of the lowest levels of goverment subsidies of any major car companies.
And to say that you'll never buy a car from a company that got large levels of government assistance means that, if you're honest, you'll never buy a car from any company.
Other countries subside their car industry and the result is cheaper cars for Americans. The US subsidizes car companies and it results in higher wages for union workers and increased taxes for all America's to possibly, maybe make it cheaper for us to by cars.
In the first, foreign tax-payers are chumps. In the second case, we're the chumps.
Can you really not grasp the difference?
No Japanese car companies received large aid packages to locate factories anywhere in the US. Nope, didn't happen.
Then that's bad too. Tax dollars shouldn't subsidize any private business.
I really don't see what clever point you imagine yourself to be making.
I think he's trying to tell us we each need to make our own cars.
LULZ
Historically American companies have some of the lowest levels of goverment subsidies of any major car companies.
Right up until last year, when GM and Chrysler got the biggest levels of subsidies anywhere. Welcome to our shit list, GM and Chrysler.
I'm saying that the American car companies are no worse than the foreign companies. The distinctions are based on ignorance of the level of assistance that these companies have received. Thinking that foreign companies are somehow special, more free-market, is simply not supported by the facts.
Non-union is more free-market.
And government enforced unions are a form of government assistance. The American car industry has been underwritten by the force of the government since the first time they intervened in a strike.
And, despite the protestations of everyone else, I don't buy America for one simple reason: THE CARS THEY MAKE MOSTLY SUCK ASS.
Do you really think that if your car made in Japan, Korea, or Germany it is made in a nonunion factory?
Once again, that's not a union I am supporting with my tax dollars.
I can voluntarily decide if the union surcharge for a foreign vehicle is worth it. For most part it is, because of vastly superior quality.
Personally, I rather not buy anything made by a government enforced union, foreign or domestic. But statists fucks have taken that choice away from us in most industries.
Just so, SugarFree. I also won't buy from Ford because every car bought from Ford supports the UAW, a pernicious force in American society.
Current vehicles: one Toyota, one Nissan.
Likelihood that I will ever buy from a UAW company: vanishingly small.
Honda and a BMW. Bought used, of course.
And I looked up the models... neither of them built in the US.
I can't control other countries, but I can control my money. Unless it's stolen.
Toyota and Honda. The Honda is a 1995 and runs like a dream.
Hyundai is starting to look good. They're on the list in a couple years when I buy a car again. I'll probably end up with an CPO Infiniti though.
Of course, those mellow, folksy Subaru commercials with the ?ber-hunky spokesmodel enticing me to buy one of their cars from their very, very green factories is seductive in that Indigo Girls sort of way.
BUSH DID IT TOO!!!!!
+1
I call bullshit on this.
You kids can make all the ha ha jokes here you want, but the bottom line is that this is a government plot to diminish Toyota's market share. The injury and death caused by these cars pale in comparison to American cars and yet I don't recall seeing Messrs. Ford or GM hauled before congress to apologize for killing folks.
FUCK OBAMA.
I think they got invitations to testify before they worked for Obamanation. New perk for Government Motors: no more trips to star on CSPAN in DC.
Not Ford.
GO FORD! I think they will get some UAW coverage a lil, unless the union gets mad at management. I think it has happened before.
And to say that you'll never buy a car from a company that got large levels of government assistance means that, if you're honest, you'll never buy a car from any company.
I have never bought a new car. Only idiots buy new cars.
I reserve the right to protest idiocy on the part of "my" government, however.
Only idiots buy new cars.
True. If there's one piece of comsumer wisdom I'd pass on to my children, it would be that.
Oh, and cancel my subscription.
If you know what to collect, buying some cars new is a good idea.
Never buy a UAW-built car new, because the resale price drops swiftly the first few years.
But, Japanese model cars are generally better values new than used, IMO, because the resale prices are propped up by the (generally accurate) perception of quality.
But, right now, if you were to buy a Toyota, a used one would be a better deal than new because of the price being beaten down.
I really don't see how buying new can ever, ever make economic sense.
I pay $3,000, tops, for any car or truck I buy (and usually less). It usually costs me $500-$1,000 to get it into reliable shape.
I drive 'em for, say, five years and on average, I'm spending maybe $300-400 a year on maintenance.
So my cost works out to around $100 a month.
Again, how could I possibly not lose money buying new?
Cancel my subscription.
Q: If no one bought new cars, where would used cars come from?
A: Chumps will always buy new cars. And fleet operators.
I work in the personal lines insurance business, which continues to be regulated at the state level. Some states have very heavy regulation on everything from rates, coverages and underwriting rules, which tends to be Blue states. Others are much less so. Guess which ones have the lowest premiums for auto and home insurance.
Well, with the exception of Florida. But that's kind of unfair considering where most of the hurricanes have hit in the past 5 years.
Florida's elected insurance commissioners have also tended to be populists who have always talked a good game on protecting "the little guy" (which included the citrus barons and property developers) from the rapacious insurance gougers.
Thus homeowner rates were kept artificially low through a period of relative low hurricane activity prior to the 1990s.
Also Florida is also a different kind of Red State, being heavily populated for some time with a disproportionate number of self-entitled "greatest generation" retirees, who just love them some generous government handouts and don't have a problem with high taxes to pay for them, they just don't like the idea of being taxed themselves.
Leads to some really odd voting patterns.
Let's all give three cheers for government-mandated misallocation of resources! be cause if the government doesn't tell people how to invest, they'll get it wrong!
The distinctions are based on ignorance of the level of assistance that these companies have received.
Wrong. It's a question of whose money is being used to subsidize those companies.
If you live in a large part of the country, your money is being used to subsidize foreign based car companies. Since money is fungible, all of our money is used for such subsidies.
But the Federal government isn't currently running a PR scam to benefit those companies. I freely confess I'm going to go against them just to be contrary and ornery. Fuck the Feds.
Since money is fungible, all of our money is used for such subsidies.
Slow down, Duncan. I live in Texas, in a city with no auto plants.
I pay federal taxes, and can see a nice straight line between my pocketbook and the US car makers supported with federal tax dollars.
Through what indirect route is my money being transmuted into taxpayer support of Japanese car makers?
RC,
San Antonio Plant article
"Texas' transportation commissioner said the state would put tens of millions of dollars into building or improving roads as needed by Toyota. Texas lawmakers have said Toyota will be offered job-training assistance and the potential plant area could be designated as an enterprise zone to allow for tax breaks."
The indirect way your federal tax-dollars get to state and local subsidies is that the Federal Government gives lots of money to states. Since the money is fungible, the states then use those funds, directly or indirectly, to cover the costs of the subsidies.
I count road-building as a legitimate function of the state, not really a subsidy in the same league as writing checks to the corporation.
What tax breaks are these Texas lawmaker talking about? The corporate income tax?
One more:
Well, at some level you can trace a money flow from anywhere to anywhere. At that point, the relevance of the exercise breaks down.
Color me unconvinced that the money flow from me -> feds -> some city in Alabama to pay for a free clinic means I'm picking up the tab for the incentive package that city gave to a car company.
Since money is fungible, all of our money is used for such subsidies.
And again I ask, "What's your fucking POINT?"
Are you some cretinous flag-waver who wants me to give my hard-earned money to Amurrikin socialists instead of them dad-burned furrin bastards?
Shut the fuck up, Duncan.
Touchy Touchy. Wow, aren't you sensitive today. Can't handle the fact that pretty much all car companies receive taxpayer subsidies?
Tens of billions like GM and Crystler? I think not.
I can't handle the fact that the law was blatantly violated to give money to Chrysler and GM, that equal protection under the law was flushed down the toilet, and that our congress is currently engaging in a witch hunt on behalf of their newly acquired companies.
The father of one of my drinking buddies is the current chairman of Chrysler.
True story.
Cancel my subscription.
"Now a memo has come to light showing that Toyota cut a deal with its Washington regulators on the braking issue last year. As is often the case when politicians point fingers, at least three fingers are pointing right back at them.
In that spirit, I'd be really surprised if this sort of thing isn't going on right now between regulators and GM.
There's an enormous opportunity for this sort of thing when the people who are regulating the industry in fact own one of the largest competitors in the industry...
It still hasn't been explained, for instance, why GM had a $1,000 discount specific to Toyota owners who wanted to trade in cars that were affected by the recall, preapproved by their government overseers and ready to go in the showroom, the very day the Toyota recall was announced...
There must have been some foreknowledge on GM's part, and that's really dirty pool.
...but what do you expect? Regulators get cozy with the industries they regulate, we can count on that like gravity. And when the government owns one of the major firms in an industry, and also regulates all the other competitors in that industry, we'd be stupid not to expect an especially cozy relationship to develop there...
I hope we get rid of GM soon for a number of reasons. Among them, we're just begging for safety issues like this to crop up so long as the regulators and a major manufacturer are both run by the government.
"I won't buy from Government Motors!"
"They're all government motors."
"Oh yeah, well at least they're not my government's motors!"
"I won't buy from union carmakers!"
"All imports are made by unions."
"Oh yeah, well at least they're not American unions!"
Did you people OD on stupid pills?
I'll feel a lot better about GM when they pay back the TARP money they owe, that's for sure.
Almost everyone--except for GM, GMAC and Chrysler--have paid their TARP money back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARP#Participants
Pay back the money you stole, spin the companies back off so willing investors can take their own losses, without the taxpayer on the hook, and then maybe I'll go back to only hating the UAW as much as I used to.
The influence of the UAW on my life is much more direct than the influence of some Japanese union.
Subsidies by the US government are directly paid for by me.
Pardon me if I focus on those rather than something that is, at best, highly attenuated and indirect.
Another true story:
When my grandfather died last year, he was apparently the oldest living UAW pensioner in town and had been retired for 30 years. Spent most of the money on cards and horses (he was hitting the track daily into his 90s) not that there's anything wrong with that.
Cancel my subscription.
Every time you cancel your subscription I am subscribing twice.
Congress isn't doing this because the government owns GM. Congress is doing this because they always have grandstanding hearings when there are massive recalls by a single company. For example, Ford and the splitting Firestone tires.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95689&page=1
The current administration must remember, however, that when U.S. Toyota sales decline, employees at Toyota plants all across the South lose their jobs.
Considering that the UAW states went for Obama, and the Southern states with Toyota plants went for The Other Guy TM, I'd say the current administration understands this just fine, Ron.
"Nice little operation you have there Toyota worker. Would be a shame if anything happened to it. The vote for unionizing is just around the corner."
Interesting, but what does being forced to make lighter cars have to do with a faulty braking system?
Reducing reliable mechanical components and replacing them with electronic is a good point to start figuring that out.
Basically every domestic and foreign business receives some kind of subsidy, tax break, favorable regulation at the expense of competitors, and all kinds of corporate welfare. I can still single out specific businesses that were recipients of especially bullshit deals, namely General Motors and Chrysler. The fact that foreign companies like Toyota receive fewer subsidies paid for with American tax money is good enough reason for me to support them more.
Shut the fuck up, Duncan.
Great column and insurance which is mentioned, is healthcare.
well done
Damn great column, Hart is good.
Hart says he drives a hybrid...half Hummer and half Navigator stretched out real nice to take 2 parking spots.
He is a damn witty guy. And P Brooks, you are not.
your all american hating cocksuckers.