Texas to Secede…from Gas Tax?
The Reason Foundation's Bob Poole cheers proposed legislation from Texas's Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison to allow keep its own gas tax money and opt out of the federal Highway Trust Fund, using its own money for its own road infrastructure needs. Some reasons:
A key rationale for devolution is that the funding approach developed to build the Interstate system is now obsolete. That approach transfers large sums from larger and fast-growing states to smaller and slower-growing states. And states like Texas end up subsidizing other states. That is exactly backwards of what a real user-fee system would do—which is to generate and spend large sums in the places with huge problems of congestion and insufficient highway capacity. A side benefit of devolution would be the elimination of tons of pork, as members of Congress would no longer be able to earmark pet projects that are political winners but economic losers.
But there are some potential hazards to devolution as well on "e pluribus unum" grounds, Poole notes:
The downside is that the Interstate system is critically important to interstate commerce, and the federal government has a constitutional responsibility to ensure that states do not erect barriers to interstate commerce….But this doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. Congress could enact standards for the Interstate system as a condition of approving devolution—things like nationally inter-operable electronic toll collection, pavement quality, bridge clearance heights, etc.—that states would be required to adhere to.
The Austin American Statesman with some details about the proposed S. 903. For more recent blogging on infrastructure issues, see this which implies that our nation's bridges aren't in as shabby shape as you might be lead to believe.
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But, but, but, . . . multiplier effect?
Does that mean Texas could lower the drinking age without losing its highway funds?
Way to pander to the home front, Kay. This gubernatorial election is gonna be fun.
Y'all do realize that Kay could give a shit if this actually passes, right? Just the attempt will boost her stock when she runs for Governor next year.
The downside is that the Interstate system is critically important to interstate commerce, and the federal government has a constitutional responsibility to ensure that states do not erect barriers to interstate commerce.
I don't think the Interstate Commerce Clause has even been read to impose requirements on state roadbuilding, nor could it (honestly). It is meant to preempt the states from imposing legal restrictions on commerce, not failing to keep their blacktop smooth and well-painted.
It seems to me that if Texas is paying in more than it gets back, then opting out will give them even more money to build roads, resulting in better highways than now.
The Interstate system has long been used (hi, Mr. Reagan!) as a bludgeon to beat states into submission. Get rid of its power.
"For more recent blogging on infrastructure issues, see this which implies that our nation's bridges aren't in as shabby shape as you might be lead to believe."
Obama fixed them. He's the best. Ever.
Epi - plus, ask our friends at "the other site" what they feel about [stage whisper] INTERSTATE COMMERCE [/sw]
Nick - it sure does. It sure does.
VM,
G******e.com isn't exactly hidden.
"The Interstate system has long been used (hi, Mr. Reagan!) as a bludgeon to beat states into submission. Get rid of its power."
I assume you are talking about the 21 year old drinking age. Don't forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgened on us by Ford and Carter.
things like nationally inter-operable electronic toll collection
Fuckin' awesome!
Don't forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgeoned on us by Ford and Carter.
"Sure it might save a few lives, but MILLIONS will be late!"
things like nationally inter-operable electronic toll collection
Fuckin' awesome!
Until your sargasm ;-), I never really thought about it... Are there interstate highways with tolls? We don't have such a thing in The Bluegrass State. (Are the Pennsylvania and New Jersey Turnpikes, for example, interstate highways paid for with national highway funds?)
Naga - that's good enough to hide it from gov't agents!
(now go to your room. Mr. Steven Crane shall appear shortly, dressed in his clown outfit, to dispense your corporal punishment)
"Don't forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgened on us by Ford and Carter."
QFT!
Since intrastate non-commerce in such things as wheat and marijuana are legally considered part of INTERstate commerce, by the Wickard and Raich decisions, respectively, is it at all possible that "Opting Out" of the federal interstate highway system would be seen as having a negative effect on interstate commerce, and therefore as something that the federal government could properly regulate (in their apparently favorite way: to prohibit)?
Are there interstate highways with tolls?
Stop at Stuckey's
Pecan Log Roll
Says it's an interstate
But there's still a toll
Burma Shave
Are there interstate highways with tolls?
The Indiana Australia Toll Road (aka Interstate 80) is the one which pops immediately to mind.
Also Interstate 87, which runs north from New York City. I think I saw not long ago that the portion on which tolls are collected has been extended since I lived in Lake George many many moons ago.
I-10 from the I-610 loop to Katy has toll lanes down the center.
I-35 in Kansas from the southern border to Topeka is tolled.
The interstate in Oklahoma has a toll. Its free to enter the state, but you gotta pay to leave.
But this doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. Congress could enact standards for the Interstate system as a condition of approving devolution
A condition for approving devolution? You can take your conditions and shove them, Congress!
Go TX. Just sucks that the people running for gov are just posturing and don't actually believe in the 10th Amendment or anything...
Interstate toll roads sort explode the whole gas tax as user fee construction. One or the other, fuckers.
I assume you are talking about the 21 year old drinking age. Don't forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgened on us by Ford and Carter.
Don't forget about laws requiring:
-.08 BAC
-license suspension for anyone under 21 with .02+ BAC
-license suspension for persons not paying child support
We don't have such a thing in The Bluegrass State.
I-65 was at one time. In my lifetime. But I dont really remember. I think it ended about '73 or '74.
The Kentucky Turnpike was a toll road in the state of Kentucky. It was signed with a distinctive sign featuring a cardinal, the state bird of Kentucky.
It ran from the outskirts of Louisville to Elizabethtown. Unlike most states, Kentucky law requires that tolls be removed when the original construction bonds are paid off. The road was thus the first of the state's extensive system of toll roads to be made a freeway. Unlike the other roads, which maintain their separate names when becoming toll-free, the Kentucky Turnpike signs were removed and the road today is simply signed as a part of Interstate 65. It is today almost impossible to find any traces of its former toll status; even the old trumpet interchanges characteristic of toll roads have been removed and replaced with diamond interchanges characteristic of freeways.
Thank you wikipedia, although you failed to mention the date it changed over.
robc,
Interesting. We have tolls all over Western KY, but they are all state roads.
I-95 through Richmond used to be a toll road, but that ended in '91 or '92.
SF,
I remember paying tolls on the Bluegrass Parkway - wiki says they went away in 1991.
If the people in the western part would get off their ass and get the bonds paid off, the tolls will go away.
robc,
If the eastern part wasn't constantly draining our tax dollars for tarpaper shack repair maybe we could afford to. ;-P
(Not that you aren't in a negative tax area as well.)
SF,
Western KY Parkway is part of the "future I-69".
Both the Natcher and Audubon have had tolls removed.
SF,
I meant they need to drive more. The tolls pay off the bonds. But, they have 2 of there 3 parkways paid off, so they are making progress.
I have been on the Audubon about three hundred trillion times. Straight and flat. Perfect road to get a vehicular BJ on.
I am for the interstate highway system and against many things Poole currently proposes wrt transportation policy, but this reasoning (so to speak) is bizarre.
'Erecting barriers' would be just that - installing border crossing checkpoints where one would have to pay some sort of tarriff. Reducing the efficiency of interstate commerce through lack of standardization in transport may not be (is likely not) good policy, but it's hardly 'erecting barriers'. This is similar to budget logic where a reduction in an increase is a 'cut'.
I suppose you could argue that enacting standards for the highway system could be contrued under the authority to 'fix the Standard of Weights and Measures' but that's a pretty big stretch as well.
Perfect road to get a vehicular BJ on.
A truly good driver can receive one on any road, even backwoods New England twist fests.
Well, I'm sure your boyfriend was just more experienced at it than my girlfriend.
I have been on the Audubon about three hundred trillion times. Straight and flat. Perfect road to get a vehicular BJ on.
The roads in Louisiana would explain the locals tendency to be missing teeth...and the curious way they walk.
Are there interstate highways with tolls?
I-95 in Delaware. You're in the state for 15 minutes (assuming there aren't massive backups at the troll plazas) and you're out 5 bucks. Those troll plazas aren't going to pay for themselves, ya know!
That's a big ol' fuck you going out to Delaware.
A truly good driver can receive one on any road, even backwoods New England twist fests.
I can assure you, both members of the team need to have mad skillz to avoid unfortunateness.
Well, I'm sure your boyfriend was just more experienced at it than my girlfriend.
It was your girlfriend.
jeez, Nutrisweet.
tons are toll roads. Ohio Turnpike. Indiana Toll road (aka 80/90). NY state Thruway.
Illinois tri state tollway. PA...
sections of I 95...
etc. as everybody else has pointed out. I'm just unnecessarily piling on
*evil grin*
I'm just a simple HyperChicken from a backwards asteroid, ya'll leave me alone.
Those troll plazas aren't going to pay for themselves, ya know!
Sweet, sweet RC'z Law.
"I'll be back for you, shiteyes."
(There are only so many toll booth jokes, people.)
Y'all do realize that states have different weight standards for tractor trailers? Michigan's is much higher than most (all?) and that fact is constantly thrown up in debate when we bitch (rightfully) about the state of our roads.
Actually, Sugar, that's just a story mommie and daddie told you.
*pulls up chair*
Now we need to tell you the real story. About Epi and the Noam Chomsky Blow Up doll, some gauze, and a whole bunch of marbles...
Marbles? I'm grown up enough to know they were ball bearings. Sheesh.
30 weight.
30 weight.
"I suppose you could argue that enacting standards for the highway system could be contrued under the authority to 'fix the Standard of Weights and Measures' but that's a pretty big stretch as well."
One requirement is for clearance heights of min.16' on all expressways (some exceptions within cities where there is a mapped way around that fits clearance) due to military equipment clearance requirements - specifically ICBMs on trailers. That's the sort of requirement that would get upheld in court - directly related to federal purview of national defense.
Michigan has such a high GVW limit for trucks so the locals can take their wives with them.
directly related to federal purview of national defense.
Makes sense. Esp considering the ostensible purpose of the interstate system was national defense, which pretty much leads to the federal government building freeways wherever and however it wants.
Michigan has such a high GVW limit for trucks so the locals can take their wives with them.
Savage, bb, just brutal. I'm forwarding that comment to my bud in Ferndale.
T, glad I could help.
just wow B. Ben! just wow!
🙂
A side benefit of devolution would be the elimination of tons of pork, as members of Congress would no longer be able to earmark pet projects that are political winners but economic losers.
Right. Let the members of the Texas Legislature have a turn.
Virginia had toll roads until the '90s. I think a lawsuit was involved.
I'm not a fan of tolls. Currently the process of collecting the money that pays for the roads is pretty cheap. Gas vendors collect a tax and pass it to the government. To collect the money in a toll system, you need fairly expensive systems to read the RFID tag on the car, photo the license plate, and process the transaction. The newish EZ-Pass high speed reader makes toll collection real easy and could easily be deployed anywhere without slowing down traffic. It's just a question of where to deploy to maxamize the revenue. At every exit, or X number of miles? That would be expensive to setup and maintain. Tolls would be high. I don't think it will be a value from the customer's perspective. But I misuse the word customer since customers usually have choice where they shop. The all toll system is just a more expensive way of collecting the gas tax.
Texans are traitors.
The New York State Thruway tolls can get pretty hefty if you drive all the way across the State on I-90. If memory serves, it can get up around $30.
Texans are traitors.
That's what I said!
Just FYI - The drinking age (Texas is 21) is set in state law, not federal law (although a state not enforcing the minimum age would be subjected to a ten percent decrease in its annual federal highway apportionment). This bill would NOT change this because it would specifically allow the Secretary of Transportation to determine which safety requirements should continue (truck size and weight, drinking age etc.) in states that opt out.
http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/HighwayFairnessandReformActof2009.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act
Additionally under current law, each state sets its own speed limit - there is no federal speed limit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law