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Challenge Trump's Tariffs Under the Nondelegation and Major Questions Doctrines
Recent Supreme Court precedent suggests such challenges might prevail, though success is not guaranteed.

Yesterday, Donald Trump imposed 25% tariffs on Canadian and Mexican imports, and 10% on those from China. These actions will inflict immense costs on the US economy, raise prices for many goods, and poison relations with two of our closest allies and trading partners, thereby weakening the US and strengthening our enemies. They are also unlikely to do much to stem the flow of fentanyl across US borders or address illegal migration - the ostensible excuses for these actions. Fortunately, there may be a way to successfully challenge these immensely harmful actions in court. Plaintiffs should file cases based on the nondelegation and major questions doctrines. The latter, especially, has been bolstered by recent Supreme Court decisions.
The Constitution gives Congress, not the executive, the power to regulate "commerce" with foreign nations. Trump claims the authority to impose these massive tariffs under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977 (IEEPA), a vague statute that gives the president the power to set trade restrictions in situations where there is "any unusual and extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the United States, to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States, if the President declares a national emergency with respect to such threat."
Trump has indeed declared a national emergency at the border. But there is nothing "extraordinary" or "unusual" about either illegal migration or cross-border fentanyl smuggling. To the contrary, these phenomena are natural and longstanding consequences of severe immigration restrictions and the War on Drugs, which predictably create large black markets, and have done so for decades. Most fentanyl smuggling is actually done by US citizens crossing through legal ports of entry, which Canada and Mexico can't do much about. Moreover, illegal border crossings were actually at a low level when Trump came into office.
The unbounded nature of the administration's claim to power here is underscored by Trump's statements that there are no concessions Canada or Mexico could make to get him to lift the tariffs. That implies they aren't really linked to anything having to do with any emergency; rather, the invocation of the IEEPA is just a pretext to impose a policy Trump likes.
Under Trump's logic, "extraordinary" or "unusual" circumstances justifying starting a massive trade war can be declared to exist at virtually any time. This interpretation of the IEEPA runs roughshod over constitutional limitations on delegation of legislative power to the executive. For decades, to be sure, the Supreme Court has taken a very permissive approach to nondelegation, upholding broad delegations so long as they are based on an "intelligible principle." But, in recent years, beginning with the 2019 Gundy case, several conservative Supreme Court justices have expressed interest in tightening up nondelegation. The administration's claim to virtually limitless executive discretion to impose tariffs might be a good opportunity to do just that. Such flagrant abuse by a right-wing president might even lead one or more liberal justices to loosen their traditional skepticism of nondelegation doctrine, and be willing to give it some teeth.
A claim to such sweeping authority might fail even under the "intelligible principle" framework. If an "emergency" and an "extraordinary" or "unusual" threat exists anytime the executive says so, there is no real constraint here, intelligible or otherwise.
More promising than the nondelegation argument is the possibility of attacking Trump's tariffs under the "major questions" doctrine, which requires Congress to "speak clearly" when authorizing the executive to make "decisions of vast 'economic and political significance.'" If the statute is ambiguous, courts must presume that Congress didn't give the agency the power the executive claims. In recent years, the Supreme Court has relied on MQD to strike down a number of sweeping assertions of authority by the Biden administration, such as its attempt to forgive over $400 billion in student loans, and the establishment of a nationwide eviction moratorium (first begun under Trump). The imposition of massive tariffs on our two largest trading partners is pretty obviously a decision with "vast economic and political significance," one likely to cost the public even more than Biden's loan forgiveness plan would have. And, as in the student loan and eviction moratorium cases, the statutes under which the administration claims authority are far from clear in indicating it has such sweeping power. Furthermore, some of the conservative justices might welcome an opportunity to show that MQD isn't just a tool for the political right.
I don't argue that either a nondelegation or an MQD claim is sure to succeed. But the arguments are strong, particularly on MQD. Importers and others seeking to challenge Trump's awful actions would do well to try both. Making both simultaneously would also have the advantage of making the MQD argument (which is not constitutional in nature, thereby allowing Congress to potentially give the executive sweeping power by enacting a more clear statute) seem relatively moderate by comparison.
As is often the case, litigation and political action aren't mutually exclusive. At the margin, courts may be more willing to strike down Trump's tariffs if they are unpopular. Survey data indicates large majorities oppose tariffs if reminded they increase prices. Opponents would do well to emphasize that point at every turn - even as they also battle the tariffs in court.
UPDATE: In a recent Lawfare article, Peter Harrell makes a strong case that the IEEPA doesn't authorize tariffs at all. At the very least, any serious doubt about this issue strengthens the case for invalidating the administration's actions under the major questions doctrine.
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"If an 'emergency' and an 'extraordinary' or 'unusual' threat exists anytime the executive says so, there is no real constraint here, intelligible or otherwise."
I think there is no real constraint.
In my state's law emergency means urgent, not permanent, or not in the regular course of business. An "emergency" parking regulation is one that is temporary, possibly truly temporary or possibly awaiting formal creation by the City Council. An "emergency" law is one declared to be an emergency law by 2/3 of the legislature or the governor. A gun control law was declared an emergency because voters were threatening to suspend it. (With enough signatures a non-emergency law can be suspended until the voters decide at the next election.)
Don't forget Charlie Parker's "emergency" "COVID fiats.
Pretty much every law the Texas legislature passes has an "emergency clause" because if it weren't an emergency, the Texas Constitution would require the bill to be "read on three several days in each House, and free discussion allowed thereon," and how are you going to get anything done is you have to follow the regular procedure set out in the Constitution?
"Trump has indeed declared a national emergency at the border. But there is nothing "extraordinary" or "unusual" about either illegal migration or cross-border fentanyl smuggling."
Pretty sure there's nothing unusual about wind and rain, either. So, Helene wasn't a valid basis for declaring emergencies?
Congratulations on uttering what is perhaps the dumbest comment the VC has even seen.
It's time for you to seek hospice care.
Like Trump's declaration of an emergency, hate it, the fact remains that the specific complaint I responded to was nonsensical. Just because rain is normal doesn't mean rain can't be an emergency.
Jason, congratulations on demonstrating your lack of humor
"Extraordinary" might apply in the case of Helene.
Fentanyl has killed WAY more than COVID.
False, but typical for Dr. Ed.
Nope, he's right. Per the CDC, 5% of death certificated listed only Covid as a cause of death, so that's a bit less than 58,000 Americans killed by covid. The average number of comorbidities (again, per the CDC) is 4. Ergo, the balance died with Covid. I sign death certificates for a living, and these numbers are not the least bit surprising to me.
Last I looked there were more than 70,000 fentanyl-related deaths per year. It's exceedingly difficult to find fentanyl-only deaths, but I feel pretty confident that over the course of the past decade there've been more than 58,000 fentanyl-only deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities
Do you sign them in crayon? There were about 1.2 million covid deaths in the U.S. That there were "comorbidities" has actually no bearing on anything.
There have been several hundred thousand fentanyl-related deaths (which, I assure you, have also had comorbidities) in the U.S.
David, please read this slowly so you have a better chance of understanding this. There were 1.2 million deaths *with* Covid, and according to the CDC (which, if you could be bothered to click on the link I provided would have shown you this before you embarrassed yourself yet again) around 5% of those deaths were *from* Covid solely.
While you were clutching your pearls on Zoom meetings during the pandemic, I was crawling through cooler trailers pulling bodies out. Every hospital in the country was testing people postmortem for Covid, because they were getting paid for it. When you have a GSW, or blunt-force trauma, or an OD on your embalming table and the DC lists Covid, you know full well that something's fishy.
I couldn't care any less that your ambulance-chasing ass doesn't believe me....But I'm simply repeating what the government itself is reporting (and was reporting the entire Covid period). The fact that window-lickers like you prefer to believe the BS that was reported rather than the actual data speaks volumes about the situation the country's in.
Declaring a national emergency at the Canadian border based on illegal migration or cross-border fentanyl smuggling is like declaring a state of disaster for flooding in the middle of a drought.
That is the most pathetically ignorant statement ever made on Volokh
Which is a pretty high bar
This thread on X details the Canadian drug smuggling into the US:
https://x.com/StephenPunwasi/status/1885184973268832436
I don't have an X account so your random dude on Twitter source isn't accessible (there's supposedly a thread but I see nothing).
Don't worry: you didn't miss anything. The twitter rando posts some long thread with a weird conspiracy about Canadian trucking schools, but no facts at all about Canadian drug smuggling.
Wow, David, that's dishonest even for you
Apparently you can only see one tweet per link, so here's this one
https://x.com/StephenPunwasi/status/1885185024527409296
"Canadian trucker arrested after 123.9 kg cocaine bust in Indiana" was one headline
The point of the thread is that there are very few checks at the US Canadian border, that the Canadian gov't has set up a system where any 3rd world individual w/ enough cash can come to Canada, go to a "trucking school" that is completely unregulated, and get a license that will let them be hired by a trucking company to drive trucks that almost never get searched across the US Canadian border.
So drug lords can fund their own people to get those licenses, and just start smuggling
If you don't see the problems with that, I can't help you
Yeah. lawsuit. All you need to do is get past that non-justiciable political question thing and you're good to go. Wait a sec...you can't...because of the non-justiciable thing.
Whether or not the president can impose a tariff is in fact perfectly justiciable.
I can see you're very confident to affirmatively proclaim that on behalf of the country but l'm going to reject your absolute authority to determine the question. Or was "Imperator" going to be your new alias?
With all due respect, this may be the dumbest “rebuttal” possible. Obviously I’m not going to be the one to decide any lawsuit that emerges from these tariffs. Neither are you. Nor, I am confident, is anyone else posting about it here. U, the purpose of the discussion is to share our opinions about how the people who decide it should do so. You shared yours (which was obviously wrong) and I shared mine (which was correct).
With all due respect, the same to you. You shared nothing, other than your own ignorant arrogance and lack of a sense of humor.
But if you're aware of some S. Court ruling striking down a tariff rate imposed by one of the political branches as too high, please don't keep it to yourself. Otherwise, you're just full of it.
I put precisely as much thought into my comment as yours merited.
And I hope you’re not seriously suggesting there was anything humorous about what you said? Because if so… oof. Distinctly oof, Riva.
Even less impressive than your previous thoughtless responses.
Just take the loss, Riva. We all get carried away sometimes. There’s no need to get defensive about it.
Now we’re going on in full circle. We started with your pompous response and I guess we end with one.
I think Riva-bot misspelled "my."
Another truly idiotic réponse from someone with no grasp of the issue. Your specialty. You’re not even worth taking the effort to mute.
And of course, I'd be interested in any federal court ruling striking down any tariff as imprudently imposed by one of the political branches, which I'm sure you're conversant with given your very strong opinions.
The issue isn’t that the tariffs might be imprudent (obviously, they are). The issue is that they might be illegal.
Reframe it anyway you want. The issue ultimately would involve a federal court reviewing a tariff rate and second guessing the determination of a political branch, that would be the president, that the rate imposed was somehow too high in light of the geo-political and economic circumstances. That they will not do. Because it's essentially a political question, no matter how you try to characterize it. I can see you've put as little thought into that response as you have your others.
No, the question is whether the president has the legal authority to impose the tariff at all, not what the rate of the tariff should be.
No that’s how you’re trying to rephrase the issue to try and avoid a political question.
No, that's what the issue is. The party raising the challenge decides what claim(s) to raise. Prof. Somin is not proposing that someone file a suit saying, "The rates are too high; the courts should lower them," and nobody would bring such a claim. Prof. Somin is proposing a challenge to Congress's constitutional authority to let a president impose tariffs (a nondelegation claim) — at any rate — on nothing more than a whim, and on the president's statutory authority to do so (a MQD claim).
It’s not a question of the lack of authority of the President to impose tariffs. You wouldn’t be resorting the major questions doctrine if that were the case. What you’re really trying to argue is that the president has exceeded his authority, which is tantamount to claiming that the rate imposed is too high or imprudent. Like I wrote above, you bring zero real thought, just reflexively parrot what you read elsewhere. What the troll writes is of no consequence to me. I muted him so I don’t have to read his garbage.
The folks responsible for determining what is and isn't good policy are the political branches.
The folks responsible for determining what is and isn't illegal are the judiciary.
Nothing about the rate being too high, just about the authority to set the rate unilaterally.
For the record, I just like last year I still think the nondelegation doctrine isn't a thing, and shouldn't be a thing either. Congress makes the laws, the President executes them, and if Congress makes a law with lots of undefined terms in it, that's a bad idea but not (generally) unconstitutional.
I suppose an imaginary emergency could be fought using imaginary constitutional doctrines.
The more undefined or ephemeral the general wishes of Congress, the greater the President's power to speak the law into existence, where the law are the words you are sent to jail for violating.
This is the "dictate" part of "dictator".
If people in America insist on using it, use sparingly and stop looking glowingly at mass abuses of past laws for things Congress didn't contemplate.
Proof? Look about you the past two weeks.
Nobody will learn. We went down this road last Trump, where he stepped on it, then Biden one-upped it, right as predicted, right on schedule.
And here we are. Thanks, errrrybuddy!
"Lots of undefined terms" isn't really the most precise way to characterize the nondelegation argument, but setting that aside, a law with "lots of undefined terms" isn't really a law at all, and it turns the president into the one making the laws.
Leaving aside the law, how do these actions stack up in game theory? Perhaps Trump thinks the USA is better off with tariffs (protect those domestic industries). But instead, let's assume he knows we are worse off and is using the tariffs as leverage for a better deal (the art of the deal).
Consider the following 2x2 payoff matrix with USA on the rows, Canada on the columns. The first row and first column are tariffs. The second are no tariffs.
(2,2) (6,0)
(0,6) (4,4)
The Nash equilibrium is (2,2) where both have tariffs (it's prisoner's dilemma). And since both parties are impacted in the same way, only trust gets us to (4,4).
But now, let's change the payoff matrix:
(2,-3) (6,-4)
(0,6) (4,4)
The USA numbers are the same. But, Canada suffers bigly if the USA chooses tariffs. Again, the Nash equilibrium is tariffs all around. But this time, does Trump have the leverage to change the no tariff payoff to (6,2)? And if so, can Canada trust Trump not to continue to threaten tariffs to get an even better deal?
Josh R...Trump will up the tariff ante, so no.
And Canada cannot trust Trump. and won't, because they're not credulous cretins or cowards.
Game theory rules like the Nash Equilibrium apply to payoffs on zero-sum game. But for more than 80 years, the policy of the United States has been that international relations with allies are not at all a zero sum game, and a cooperative course of action where both parties benefit over the long term is preferable to one where one party maximizes short-term games at the other’s expense based on a single-play payoff matrix. The situation is more like the Prisoner’s Dilemma. In normal times, unless they have leaders inclined to make them so, foreign countries are not prisoners acting incommunicado; their ability to communicate with each other makes the actual situation much less of a dilemma.
In addition, Nash tupe game matrices, although not stochastic in nature, nonetheless have a generalized version of the Markov property. Markov games are memoryless, so that the payoff only depends on the most recent action, not past or future actions. But outside of highly artificial mental constructs like intellectual games, virtually nothing in the world of human interactions, which international relations are, has this property.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_property
Josh, you presume equal harm -- there isn't equal trade.
Canada sells more to the US than it buys -- the US sells to other nations. So a 20% reduction in trade will hurt them more.
And a lot of things are of poorer quality elsewhere -- while they can buy frozen concentrated Orange juice from Brazil, fresh arrives by truck or train from the US. And as to Mexico, we are the sole source for a lot of stuff they buy, e.g. ground corn.
Game theory rules like the Nash Equilibrium apply to payoffs on zero-sum game.
This is just incorrect. The Prisoners' Dilemma is not zero-sum, and neither is Josh's hypothetical game.
The difficulty (one of them) is the presumption that tariffs benefit the country imposing them. This is far from true. Remember, trade is voluntary. As someone (Ricardo?) once said,
"If other countries have rocky coasts, should we block up our harbors?"
There is simply no constitutional remedy. Congress has historically had far more power to delegate authority to the President in matters of immigration, foreign policy, and war than in purely domestic matters. The Supreme Court has recognized this authority for centuries. Appeal to the courts is not legitimate hear.
The same is true with Denmark, which I think is the far more far-reaching and disturbing action. Federal courts cannot stop a President from coming in out of nowhere and threatening an historic ally with war unless it cedes territory the United States has solemnly guaranteed it in treaties. This is child’s play compared to that.
I doubt the major questions doctrine applies to foreign policy at all. It has never been so applied. The Supreme Court has said many times that what is needed for national security, and question of what constitutes a threat to national security, is simply not reviewable by courts. The major questions doctrine, whatever its scope or meaning, can only apply to matters that are subject to judicial review. It simply doesn’t apply to judiciably non-reviewable matters.
I don’t dispute that the political question involved is a major one. But it’s a political question all the same. And that means that the political questions doctrine, not the major questions doctrine, is the relevant doctrine.
Setting everything else you said aside, tariffs are not "foreign policy." They are domestic policy, a tax on American citizens to coerce them to buy from different suppliers, no different than any other economic regulation.
It has not said any such thing. Korematsu lost his case, but not on the grounds that it was unreviewable. The owners of Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. won their lawsuit.
Korematsu is irrelevant. It dealt with the Suspension Clause, which concerns the government’s conduct regarding its own citizens, not foreigners.
Tariffs are paid by foreigners to import foreign products. They have long been considered tools of foreign policy. Raising tarriffs on a disfavored nation is simply a lesser foreign policy alternative to boycotting the coumtry’s products entirely, or going to war with it.
Youngstown aacfually cuts against your position. It was based on lack of authorization. The court said, albeit in dicta, that if Congress had authorized seizure of the steel mills, the seizure would be constitutional. Youngstown that when Congress delegates power to the President on a matter of war or foreign policy, the Presidents’s powers are at an apogee. This is not only consistent with, it even strongly suggests, that the Court won’t scrutinize such delegations under doctrines like the non-delegation or major questions doctrines.
1) It did not, in fact, deal with the "Suspension Clause."
2) Tariffs are the government's conduct regarding its own citizens. They are not in fact "paid by foreigners."
3) You have a weird psychosexual obsession with the notion of "greater" and "lesser" powers. But tariffs are not a "lesser foreign policy alternative" to going to war. Tariffs are about economic policy, not war.
No, it says exactly the opposite: that the Court will scrutinize to see whether such power was in fact actually delegated. When the MQD is found to apply, the Court is holding that Congress never did delegate such power.
More importantly, it directly contradicts your claim that all the president has to do is chant "national security" and then his actions are "simply not reviewable by courts."
Let me see if I understand this. I thought Trump's tariffs are intended to place an economic burden on our chief trade competitors that will give American investors and workers an advantage. The tariffs are also supposed to hobble our trade partners who are also seen as global adversaries, as threats to our security.
So how does it make sense to levy a 10% tariff on the People's Republic of China (huge trade partner and geopolitical adversary) and 25% on Canada and Mexico (huge trade partners but not geopolitical adversaries)? The tariffs seem to be intended to persuade/coerce other countries to do what we want them to do--part of a general America First campaign. Canada and Mexico already do more or less what we want them to do, so 25% tariffs are likely to alienate them. What do we expect the 10% tariff on China to accomplish? China has been fighting trade wars ever since the British bullied her into accepting imports of opium from India. The Chinese people proved during the 20th century their resilience and determination in the face of hardships that would have strained American morale to the breaking point.
So excuse me for wondering, WTF is going on? One week China is an existential threat to our way of life, and we must defend ourselves by thwarting the Chinese government's stealthy, underhanded means (e.g. Tiktok, Gotion, blimps, et al.) of attacking us. The next week we hear that these may not be so bad after all and that some of our anti-PRC initiatives are intolerable threats to free speech. Hence we will try to punish China with 10% tariffs, not 25%. The head spins.
My conclusion at this point is that there's probably no consistent, logical plan behind Trump's tariffs. Possibly he's wooing the Big Tech platforms (as if he needs to) by promising to make it profitable for them to invest in American plants and workers. But he can't do that all at once because he knows their manufacturing bases are overseas, particularly in China. So he's offering them a subsidy in disguise, which he hopes will gain the approval of skeptical Republicans as well as Democrats.
It's also possible that Trump really believes that tariffs are cheap and politically palatable measures that will increase federal revenue enough to offset the costs of his income tax vendetta. Perhaps he can't see that the biggest losers in this tariff game will be the American lower and middle classes. In effect, setting tariffs up against the import of inexpensive and popular products will add a surtax charge on top of the state and local sales taxes Americans pay now. Trump and his supporters must somehow believe that they're lopping off federal tree branches ahead of themselves, not behind.
One wonders how much China had to pay for the reversal of position. One wonders what Canada and Mexico will have to fork over. Or Denmark. There is more than one way to monetize a political office.
I mean, in American business it’s completely normal for people who take over a company to leverage the company to the hilt, strip and sell the assets, use the proceeds to pay themselves huge bonuses, and then declare bankruptcy and leave the shareholders, creditors, and employees in the lurch. Nobody thinks anything of it. Happens all the time.
Why should countries be run any differently? Alliances are strippable assets. Given how long this kind of behavior has been considered a completely normal and acceptable way to behave in business, it’s in some ways surprising it hast happened to our politics sooner.
"So how does it make sense to levy a 10% tariff on the People's Republic of China (huge trade partner and geopolitical adversary) and 25% on Canada and Mexico (huge trade partners but not geopolitical adversaries)? "
Easy! The tariffs on Mexico are intended to induce immediate policy changes on the part of those countries, and then go away. They're not expected to be in place for more than a short while. Because those countries AREN'T adversaries, Canada is an ally, and Mexico is... sorta mixed?
Because they are expected to be very short lived, they don't have to be sustainable on our side.
China IS an adversary, and that tariff isn't going away, if anything it will be progressively increased. Because of that, and because our economies are entangled, it has to be of a sustainable magnitude.
See? Simple to understand.
One way to get allies to make a policy change is to talk with them.
Trying that before economic hardball is the favored method, actually.
Diplo-jerk talk is cheap. Now their attention is properly focused. We have a problem with fentanyl coming over the border into our land and killing over 100K Americans every year. That is the equivalent of Dearborn, MI (pop 102K) getting killed every year. They (CAN, MX) can stop that drug transport at the border.
The cauliflower (Biden) asked nicely, and we have hundreds of thousands dead. The asking nicely phase is over.
No, we don't. And the only thing dumber than that claim is the claim that the tariffs have something to do with that.
Trump does not regard Canada as an ally. Your thinking is stuck in pre-Trump foreign policy concepts. Trump regards Canada as a potential conquest, a country that is rightly an extension of the US, part of its sphere of influence, and doesn’t really have any right to be regarded as independent. The United States’ current attitude towards Canada is roughly the same as Russia’s attitude towards Ukraine. It could perhaps accept a nominally independent Canada as a kind of satrapy, a protectorate, a sort of equivalent to Finland in Soviet times, but not a Canada that actually does things the United States doesn’t want done.
What are those changes?
Then why did Trump say, “The USA has major deficits with Canada, Mexico, and China (and almost all countries!), owes 36 Trillion Dollars, and we’re not going to be the ‘Stupid Country’ any longer. MAKE YOUR PRODUCT IN THE USA AND THERE ARE NO TARIFFS!” or “Anybody that loves and believes in the United States of America is in favor of Tariffs. They should have never ended, in favor of the Income Tax System, in 1913. The response to Tariffs has been FANTASTIC!”?
Why did Trump say that?
Because he's a moron, with no more understanding of international trade than a five-year-old, though in contrast to Trump the five-year-old may, in time, learn better.
Isn't treating a country that we are friendly with by different standards than worse offenders because of the expediency, entanglement, etc., to us considered prejudice in other contexts?
One might assume that a rational adult would try to work out a deal with friendly countries (and even unfriendly ones) before throwing tariffs at them your first week on the job.
I might have tried talking longer, too. But I'm not a big fan of this whole "performative incomprehension of why somebody did something" genre.
You need to try to understand the reasoning of people you disagree with, or else you severely handicap yourself. And Trump's reasoning is generally pretty easy to understand, if you don't start from an unshakable conviction that he's a moron acting randomly, so there's nothing to understand.
They're stupefied from the political shock therapy being administered, Brett. 😉
If only you took that advice for yourself. But instead you have two modes: (1) People I disagree with are acting in bad faith with a secret agenda; (2) Donald Trump is acting in good faith, even when he openly admits he's acting in bad faith.
DEPORT ILYA
Ilya so hates America that we ought to send him back.
And fentanyl is a problem because it is illegal???
REALLY???
OK, Ilya, say we legalized it. Then what?
We'd *still* have all the problems we have now -- likely more because it'd also become a date rape drug.
Ilya clearly loves his adopted land, DEPORT ED 2!
What you people are discussing:
Game theory, Markov processes, Nash equilibrium, leveraged buyouts, manufacturing bases, major political doctrine, nondelegation, justiciability.
What the person who decides is thinking today (quote):
“Canada ceases to exist as a viable country. Harsh but true! Therefore, Canada should become our cherished 51st state. Much lower taxes and far better military protection for the people of Canada – AND NO TARIFFS!”
You people are giving him too much credit. He's a person who's always had a defective narcissistic personality now going into cognitive decline and losing touch with reality. There is nothing deeper than that going on in his brain.
He’s doing the same thing Hitler did after taking power in 1933. He wants Lebensraum for the United States in much the way Hitler wanted Lebensraum for Germany. Germany was a great country, it needed expansion room. Trump is pretty much saying the same thing about the US.
And frankly he’s using a similar strategy. Germany did everything it could to prevent e.g. Austria and Czechoslovakia from existing as viable states before moving the military in and taking them over.
I don’t see why throwing out technical academic terms about his personality changes this fact any more than any other technical terms that have been thrown out. And frankly, I don’t see how he’s lost any more touch with reality than Hitler did. You have to be pretty intelligent to take q functioning democracy with a strong alliance system and turn it into an expansionistic authoritarian empire.
A lot of people had thought Hitler was in cognitive decline and out of touch with reality in 1932 and early 1933. He was happy to take advantage of their delusions. Within a year or so, most of the folks who had believed this had either managed to escape into exile, been shot, or been put in concentration camps.
If you think Mr. Trump is in cognitive decline and base your behavior on that belief,, I suspect Mr. Trump will be just as happy, and just as successful, taking advantage of your delusions.
Based on results, Hitler was a deep thinker. Getting people to underestimate him was an act so he put on to disarm them,prevent them from becoming aware of what he was capable of, and take them by surprise. It was an act he was particularly skilled at. I wouldn’t bet on Trump’s skill level being any lower.
Well, that's kind of dark.
I'm not impressed by any of Trump's "accomplishments" to date. Breaking stuff is way easier than building it.
I hate to say it, but taking over one of this country’s major parties, silencing Congress’ tradition of feisty independence, and going a long way towards turning a democratic republic into an authoritarian regime is quite an accomplishment. I don’t think that can be denied.
Ask not what Mr. Trump can do for this country. Ask what this country can do for Mr. Trump. Framed that way, I think Mr. Trump has gotten this country to accomplish quite a bit for him.
It’s like thinking that someone who takes over a company with borrowed money, sells the real estate and succeeds in breaking the pension and health care plans and siphoning off most of their balances, split the assets and the liabilities into separate legal entities, and walks off with the asset part and leaves the creditors and employees holding the liabiloties part hasn’t accomplished anything. Sure, for stuck-in-the-the-mud socialist types who define the worth of a manufacturing business by how much it manufactures, nothing has been accomplished. But for serious business people who define accomplishment by how much money gets put in their pocket, a great deal has.
Business schools have been teaching for years that breaking things up and profiting off the pieces is the right business decision, and a highly profitable accomplishment, when the parts can be made to be worth more to the whole.
Mr. Trump is simply applying modern business ethics, the ethics of takeover strategies, to running a country. Sure the citizens are nominally the owners and presidents are supposed to be fiduciaries to them. But the shareholders are nominally the owners of the businesses that takeover artists regulaarly raid, and the corporate raiders doing the raiding are nominally supposed to be their fiduciaries too. Since when have these boy scout campfire Kum Ba Ya principles actually affected what accomplished business people, i.e. those accomplished at turning businesses into personal power, fame, and fortune, actually do?
When the basis of an internationally important decision is not only stupidity but immaturity — Trump is playing with a shiny object, tariffs, which he does not understand — any legal theory must be tried out to stop it, whether it seems winnable or not.
It would be extremely dangerous, and may cost you your life, to delude yourself into thinking Trump doesn’t know exactly what he’s doing. See my comment above.
See my comment below. In fact Trump does not have the slightest idea what he's doing.
If Trump has a plan beyond Tuesday, I wish he would tell us.
Children don’t think that far in advance.
Hitler had a long-term plan for the Nazi takeover of Germany and the German takeover of Europe. Its success depended on constantly catching his opponents by surprise so that they are too baffled about why he’s doing what he’s doing until it’s too late. Hitler was no fool. He wrote about the plan in Mein Kampf, but in his early days in power he assured the world he was a man of peace probably as much as Trump did in his first term and in the election campaign. Hitler kept his card close enough to his vest that surprise was rarely broken. Trump seems no less successful at the tactic.
Do you think Hitler was a more mature adult as you define mature adult than Trump is?
Yes, he was. (Unfortunately.) As you point out, he had a long-term plan. Children cannot form long-term plans. Trump is not capable of that either.
Hitler, who read widely, particularly about German history, actually wrote things, for example "Main Kampf", which by all accounts was his own work. Trump (again, by all accounts) does not have the attention span to read more than a few pages, let alone write a work of 400 pages. Everything that is purportedly written by Trump was ghostwritten.
I do too, Katall, b/c of the options market, lol = If Trump has a plan beyond Tuesday, I wish he would tell us
Yeah, this has approximately zero chance of working. The non-delegation doctrine says, to paraphrase loosely, that Congress doesn't hide mountains in molehills and that if the executive branch is going to argue delegation, Congress must have done so clearly. But in this case, Congress has done so quite clearly. They completely abrogated their authority over tariffs generations ago and have taken no steps at all to rein in executive authority. To try to claim that this is the "step too far" seems borderline frivolous.
And I say that as someone who believes these tariffs are deeply harmful and counterproductive. If you're going to try to stop them, at least propose something that might have a chance of working.
When something absolutely has to be done (as in the Civil Rjghts restaurant case) the Court will sometimes go to ridiculous lengths to let it be done.
"To try to claim that this is the "step too far" seems borderline frivolous."
Isn't this how Major Questions works?
re: "Isn't this how Major Questions works?"
Yeah, sorta, because while Congress doesn't hide mountains in molehills, it does sometimes put molehills in molehills and a court might be called on to make that distinction.
My point was not that the idea was frivolous but that it's silly to try to claim that what Congress did in this case was anything like a molehill. They wrote a mountain of tariff delegation. Whether what the executive branch is doing is a mountain or a molehill doesn't matter because it easily fits Congress' overdelegation regardless.
No; you're confusing the non-delegation doctrine and the major questions doctrine. The non-delegation doctrine — most famously used in the Schechter Poultry case — is a constitutional argument that congress cannot simply grant a power to the president to write laws. The president can implement laws passed by Congress, but there must be an "intelligible principle" in those laws to constrain that implementation.
The MQD is a canon of statutory interpretation — the elephant/mousehole thing — that says that the courts will not assume that Congress actually intended to delegate a particular sweeping power to the president unless it is quite explicit about it. So, for instance, Congress did write a law saying that the president had the power to "waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the [Education Act] as the Secretary deems necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency."¹ But SCOTUS said that a vague power to "waive or modify" was not the sweeping power to just cancel hundreds of billions in student loans. Nobody challenged the notion that such loans could be cancelled. Just how explicit Congress had to be if it wanted to authorize the president to do so.
¹Note, to several people here: "emergency" was in the statute. SCOTUS still rejected Biden's policy.
You're right, I did conflate those two. Thank you for the correction.
I predicted the author by reading the headline. Total BS.
Yes. A Trump-hater law professor wants to conduct lawfare against Trump.
This shows that "lawfare against Trump" = "thinks Trump should be challenged in court for something he did." Parrots learn to say things but don't know what they mean.
So, your complaint is that Prof. Somin expressed his point clearly in the post title, and that it’s consistent with his previously-expressed opinions?
What a burn!
My complaint is that he, probably unintentionally, constructs his arguments to attack Trump and pays no heed to how absurd they are. No court will ever subject these actions to judicial review for reasons that should be extremely obvious. Somin’s sincere and endearing libertarian ideas warp his legal analysis to the point of absurdity.
Do you have a real argument to make against Prof. Somin's position? Since the reasons should be extremely obvious, why don't you tell us what those reasons are?
Between 2002 and 2023, fentanyl deaths in the US increased 3400%. It is the now the number one killer of individuals aged 18-35 in the US. But this is not "unusual" or an "emergency", says Somin. What a relief.
Canada has become a net exporter of fentanyl. Why? Because Justin Trudeau and the Labour Party have completely decriminalized it (as well as other hard drugs) and its precursors. The sale and manufacture of hard drugs is one of the few areas of human endeavor the left-wingers who are destroying Canada do not want to regulate. Canadian Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre, the probable next Prime Minister, has been steadfastly opposing this, warning Trudeau that he would poison the relation with the US who would not stand idly by and allow this to happen. Naturally, Somin the phony libertarian is on the same side as petty left-wing tyrant Trudeau.
Somin, based on his expertise in parroting CATO position papers, says this won't work. I bet it will, and Canada will start cracking down on fentanyl. I guess we'll see how much Trudeau is willing to let Canadians suffer. I concede it's possible he may just not give a damn about his people, but I think he'll cave.
If the tariff were coupled with a demand that would lead to its removal, it would be much more defensible.
The tariff is very much linked to demands that will lead to its removal.
Somin is the "phony libertarian" for opposing the use of higher taxes to force a regulatory crackdown on drugs?
No, he's a phony libertarian because his posts are in accord with the far-left position on an issue 90%+ of the time, from supporting vaccine mandates to the Biden censorship regime to every single depredation of Trump's due process. I note that here, yet again, he is aligned with the far left, though it was more a general comment than one related to this specific post.
Isn't a big part of his work against takings and zoning?
His position on zoning is essentially a spin-off of his open borders ideology, generalized to within the country. He sees zoning as an obstacle to poor people moving into wealthy areas, where the magic soil is theorized to make them wealthy, too.
On takings, well, Kelo was unpopular enough widely enough that you hardly have to be much of a libertarian to be outraged by it.
His position on zoning is that it's an infringement on property rights. That it harms poor people is an attempt to provide reasons to liberals not persuaded by that libertarian argument why they shouldn't support zoning.
My favorite species of anti-libertarian whining is the one shared by idiot liberals and idiot conservatives alike that libertarianism is really just conservatism.
So said idiot liberals accuse libertarians of being really just conservatives who don't want to call ourselves that (sometimes it's framed as "conservatives who want to smoke pot"), and said idiot conservatives accuse libertarians of being "phony" if we hold "left wing views" on some issues. Newsflash: we hold liberatarian views, many of which are coded as "left." (Though the biggest retard is Roger Schlafly, who thinks libertarianism is Marxism, using two words he doesn't understand.) Wolf gets to that point in part by lying about Prof. Somin's positions.
Canada has not "completely decriminalized" fentanyl; that's just a bizarre fabrication.
We are well past the point where legal arguments matter. SCOTUS will rubber stamp whatever they want. That is of course if the case gets to SCOTUS before Musk takes complete control of government.
Well, Somin.
Who has any faith that proceeds of Trump's tariffs will ever find their way under congressional jurisdiction?
I expect Trump to treat that money as his own private discretionary budget which Congress cannot touch.
Practically, who would have standing to bring the suit? That always feels tricky.
A manufacturer that import inputs from Canada? A random citizen who just buys some mail order maple syrup? Genuiniely, I'd love to see Ilya create standing for himself and pro se this one. Someone's got to stop this nonsense
Anyone who’s supposed to pay the tariff would have standing.
That one's incredibly easy. Standing gets tricky when there is nobody who has been personally harmed by a particular policy. A giveaway generally doesn't generate standing because the people who get the benefit aren't harmed, and everyone else is only collectively harmed by the impact on the U.S. treasury. (That's why for the student loan forgiveness, they had to dig up a loan servicer who would supposedly make less money if loans were forgiven.) But a tax (which, of course, is what a tariff is) is very easy: anyone who pays it has standing.
I don't see Somin ever complaining about the "emergencies" still active years and decades after the fact but he supposedly cares about emergencies being defined as novel situations because it is useful to him in this construction. If only we lived in the blank sheet hypothetical world of enlightened altruists from which Somin makes all his arguments then his screeds might be relevant.
Silly Somin, the "major questions doctrine" only applies to Democratic administrations.
Along with concerns about deficits and federalism.
These actions will inflict immense costs on the US economy, raise prices for many goods, and poison relations with two of our closest allies and trading partners
The politicians running Canada and Mexico were given an options:
1: Work to cut drug smuggling / illegal alien invasions of the US coming from your territory
2: Get into a trade war you can't win with your biggest trading partner
Note, here's a thread on X about the drug smuggling coming from Canada. Before you try to claim "there's no drug smuggling coming from Canada because not much is caught at the border", do yourself a favor, and read the thread, rather than being an a$$.
https://x.com/StephenPunwasi/status/1885184973268832436
Now, I understand what's happening with Mexico, the gov't doesn't have much power over the drug lords, and depends on its illegal alien invasion of the US for many $$$. But what's Canada's excuse? Are the "Liberal" Party runners just all a bunch of drug lords?
In any event, the poisoning of the relationship is coming from the people aiding the violation of US laws, not the US President doing his best to follow his oath to faithfully execute the laws of the US.
Welp. Canada just rolled over and played dead.
Welp. Brett is more gullible than the guy who plays three card monte on the street because he saw the guy in front of him win. Canada gave Trump nothing except the satisfaction of pretending that he got something.
I'm not convinced the argument for Non-Delegation Doctrine will prevail. However, the MQQ doctrine seems to be a much stronger argument. I still think the Court is vague on where that doctrine comes from (since it seems to be a canon of construction). It's also unclear if MQQ was a carveout to Chevron, in which case, it arguably doesn't exist anymore.
With the overruling of Chevron, there might be another avenue. The courts theoretically could just overrule the President. I would be shocked if this ultimately happens, but the courts could interpret the restricting language more narrowly than the President and the President may not be entitled to deference.
I'm not sure I agree with that, but the law has changed because of Loper Bright and the development MQD and non-delegation, it's not necessarily relitigating established precedent. Another bite at the apple.
My quibble about MQD is that such a tariff authority delegation by statute would seem to qualify as major question in the affirmative.
Oh, look at that! Trump has paused the tariffs against Mexico for a month because the Mexican gov't has agreed to send their military to the border to work to stop the flood of drugs and illegal aliens.
Ilya Somin hardest hit.
One wonders if the Canadian Left is just so wrapped up in their American drug dealing that they're refuse to compromise until after the upcoming election.
One further wonders how the election will be affected by the Leftist gov't dragging Canada into an avoidable trade war with the US
Sorry peeps, there was a much easier route to fix this than debating the finer points of MQD...
Congress could have just repeal this tariff delegation authorization. Biden had at least 2 years with a Democrat Congress, if this and presidential emergency declarations were such a threat to our constitutional order. Soooooo, what happened anyway? If only we had experienced the near death of experience of an authoritarian in the White House, who might abuse delegated authority. Maybe then Congress and the president would have been motivated to fix this grave threat to democracy.
That's true, but I'm not sure anything that includes action by Congress could be characterized as easier.
It's much more straightforward than a lawsuit working its way through the federal courts.
At least I would have thought it would be, if executive overreach is truly a threat to democracy. Or maybe, just maybe, Democrats are full of it regarding threats to democracy, and covet such powers exercised by their guys too.
Am totally willing to stipulate Republican hypocrisy here too.
Thank goodness Trump's tariffs focused attention and more importantly action on the fentanyl crisis that claimed the lives of 250,000 Americans between 2021 and 2024.
Mr. Somin can present any premise he wants, but the only important empirical evidence is the number of fentanyl overdose deaths. If those go down I challenge the author to acknowledge the fact. I hold out no hope whatsoever he will give credit where credit is due for the reduction.