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The Supreme Court Refuses To Extend Robinson v. California, A Non-Originalist Decision
Even if an erroneous precedent cannot be overruled, isolate the damage, and decline to extend it to new circumstances.
Robinson v. California (1962) may be peak Warren Court activism. California made it a crime to be addicted to narcotics--not simply to use drugs, but to be addicted to using them. Robinson argued that this law violates some sort of substantive due process right. This was three years before Griswold, so the Court still was stuck under the New Deal settlement that rejected substantive due process. So what does the Warren Court do? It manufactures a new standard based on the Eighth Amendment out of whole cloth. Sort of like a penumbra. (Griswold favorably cites Robinson.) The Robinson Court held that it would violate the Eighth Amendment to punish someone because of the "status" of being a drug addict. The Court ruled that when punishing "'status,'" "[e]ven one day in prison would be . . . cruel and unusual." Id., at 666–667.
This argument was not raised by the defendant. Justice Gorsuch's majority opinion explains:
Reaching that conclusion under the banner of the Eighth Amendment may have come as a surprise to the litigants.Mr. Robinson challenged his conviction principally on the ground that it offended the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of due process of law. . . . Mr. Robinson's resort to the Eighth Amendment was comparatively brief. He referenced it only in passing, and only for the proposition that forcing a drug addict like himself to go "'cold turkey'" in a jail cell after conviction entailed such "intense mental and physical torment" that it was akin to "the burning of witches at the stake." Robinson Brief 30. The State responded to that argument with barely a paragraph of analysis, Brief for Appellee in Robinson v. California, O. T. 1961, No. 61–554, pp. 22–23, and it received virtually no attention at oral argument.
During oral argument, there were zero questions about the Eighth Amendment--I found one fleeting reference to a "cruel and unusual punishment," but that was it.
Robinson resembles another Warren Court classic decided one year earlier, Mapp v. Ohio (1961). In that landmark precedent, the Court transformed a First Amendment obscenity case into a Fourth Amendment case. The Court "incorporated" the exclusionary rule and overturned Wolf v. Colorado, even tough the Defendant did not seek to overrule that precedent, only the ACLU as amicus did. Whenever current members of the Court want to complain about the Court reaching out to decide issues that are not presented, they should think carefully about Mapp and Robinson. But at least in Grant's Pass, Justice Sotomayor's dissent preached fidelity to a precedent that was manufactured out of thin air without the benefit of party presentation. So much for judicial "modesty."
The most obvious response to Robinson would be to overrule it. But, in an act of restraint, the Roberts Court declines to overrule a precedent that Grants Pass did not ask to overrule. (A MAGA Court would have held that the Fourteenth Amendment requires the government to protect citizens from homeless encampments.)
Justice Thomas's concurrence explains at length why Robinson ought to be overruled.
First, the precedent that the respondents primarily rely upon, Robinson v. California, 370 U. S. 660 (1962), was wrongly decided. In Robinson, the Court held that the Cruel and Unusual Punishments Clause prohibits the enforcement of laws criminalizing a person's status. That holding conflicts with the plain text and history of the Cruel and Unusual Punishments Clause. That fact is unsurprising given that the Robinson Court made no attempt to analyze the Eighth Amendment's text or discern its original meaning. Instead, Robinson's holding rested almost entirely on the Court's understanding of public opinion: The Robinson Court observed that "in the light of contemporary human knowledge, a law which made a criminal offense of . . . a disease [such as narcotics addiction] would doubtless be universally thought to be an infliction of cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments." Modern public opinion is not an appropriate metric for interpreting the Cruel and Unusual Punishments Clause—or any provision of the Constitution for that matter.
If you're looking for the "intellectual and theoretical leader on the court" of the Court, it is still Justice Thomas. Justice Barrett tends to write separately to moderate when she cannot join a conservative majority opinion in full. To be a leader, one must be followed. I've yet to see anyone follow Justice Barrett on or off the Court.
The majority, though, finds no need to overrule Robinson because this case is distinguishable.
Still, no one has asked us to reconsider Robinson. Nor do we see any need to do so today. Whatever its persuasive force as an interpretation of the Eighth Amendment, it cannot sustain the Ninth Circuit's course since Martin. In Robinson, the Court expressly recognized the "broad power" States enjoy over the substance of their criminal laws, stressing that they may criminalize knowing or intentional drug use even by those suffering from addiction. 370 U. S., at 664, 666. The Court held only that a State may not criminalize the "'status'" of being an addict. Id., at 666. In criminalizing a mere status, Robinson stressed, California had taken a historically anomalous approach toward criminal liability. One, in fact, this Court has not encountered since Robinson itself.
Public camping ordinances like those before us are nothing like the law at issue in Robinson. Rather than criminalize mere status, Grants Pass forbids actions like "occupy[ing] a campsite" on public property "for the purpose of maintaining a temporary place to live." … In that respect, the city's laws parallel those found in countless jurisdictions across the country. See Part I–A, supra. And because laws like these do not criminalize mere status, Robinson is not implicated.
But are the cases distinguishable? Depends how you look at it. As I explained in an earlier post, the Court's conservatives and liberals have long argued about whether to characterize laws as regulations on the basis of status or conduct. I think Justice Sotomayor's dissent makes some fair points, so long as you accept the "status" framing of the case. I won't rehash that debate here.
Rather, what is important is that the majority recognized that Robinson was inconsistent with original meaning, and declined to extend that non-originalist precedent.
The plaintiffs sought to extend Robinson:
If Robinson does not control this case, the plaintiffs andthe dissent argue, we should extend it so that it does. Perhaps a person does not violate ordinances like Grants Pass'ssimply by being homeless but only by engaging in certain acts (actus rei) with certain mental states (mentes reae).Still, the plaintiffs and the dissent insist, laws like these seek to regulate actions that are in some sense "involuntary," for some homeless persons cannot help but do what the law forbids. See Brief for Respondents 24–25, 29, 32; post, at 16–17 (opinion of SOTOMAYOR, J.). And, the plaintiffs and the dissent continue, we should extend Robinson to prohibit the enforcement of laws that operate this way—laws that don't proscribe status as such but that proscribe acts, even acts undertaken with some required mentalstate, the defendant cannot help but undertake.
But the Court declined that invitation:
As we have seen, Robinson already sits uneasily with the Amendment's terms, original meaning, and our precedents. Its holding is restricted to laws that criminalize "mere status." Nothing in the decision called into question the "broad power" of States to regulate acts undertaken with some mens rea. And, just as in Powell, we discern nothing in the Eighth Amendment that might provide us with lawful authority to extend Robinson beyond its narrow holding.
This is precisely what the Supreme Court, and all courts should do with non-originalist precedents that do not govern a particular case: refuse to extend it to new circumstances. I developed this theme in my article, Originalism and Stare Decisis in the Lower Courts. Even if an erroneous precedent cannot be overruled, courts should isolate the damage, and decline to extend it to new circumstances.
Oh, and one last piece of advice: in every future Eighth Amendment case, the defendant should preserve the issue of whether any applicable overrule Warren and Burger Court precedents. I can't imagine a case like Robinson has any reliance interests value, and it was egregiously wrong the moment it was decided.
Update: Mike Rappaport and John McGinnis make a similar point about Grants Pass:
Only after outlining the original meaning of the clause did Gorsuch address Robinson. He noted that the issue in Grants Pass was behavior, not status, because the statute penalized an action: camping. Moreover, unlike the statute in Robinson, the Grants Pass enactment was a general law, applying not only to the homeless but to anyone who camped. The Court thus refused to extend the Robinson precedent to this case on originalist grounds.
Grants Pass thus provides an excellent example of what the Supreme Court can do when confronted with precedent inconsistent with original meaning. It can first set forth the original meaning. And then it can refuse to extend or cut back the precedent toward the original meaning if it can do so with a tractable and principled distinction.
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This "egregiously wrong" standard seems likely to provide a great ride when the Court no longer resembles a Federalist Society meeting and the judicial activism of the Roberts and Rehnquist Courts is reviewed.
What Justice Thomas wrote, "Modern public opinion is not an appropriate metric for interpreting the Cruel and Unusual Punishments Clause—or any provision of the Constitution for that matter."
What Justice Thomas meant, "But 1790 public opinion is good."
What a tool.
Confining a drug addict to jail without access to drugs doesn't seem much different that confining the town drunk for public intoxication without his booze.
Confining the town drunk for public intoxication is different than punishing the town drunk for being a drunk without regard to his current intoxication, so they clearly are different.
Since when do we jail drug addicts?
We jail people for selling or buying illegal drugs (who or may not be drug addicts), and we jail people for causing car crashes who are under the influence (who may or may not be drug addicts).
But you're getting away from the point.
Why is 1790 public opinion legally acceptable and 2024 public opinion isn't?
Justice Thomas SPECIFICALLY wrote, 'modern.'
Because 1790 opinion was entrenched into law.
Change the law properly if you want it to teflect 2024 opinion.
It’s amazing how this observation dramatically improves the signal to noise ratio.
Not really. There are plenty of good and thoughtful responses to that argument if you look for them.
New laws speaking to modern needs are passed all the time. Frequently. Then if they make it to this supreme court, they are held against an 18th century standard.
Also, isn’t the constitution’s whole premise supposed to be that it is based on unalienable, natural rights that do not change over time? If so, what makes 1790 any better in interpreting laws than 2024?
Originalism is just smoke and mirrors, frequently applied inconsistently and sloppily.
Ftr I don’t think originalism as a framework or way of thinking is bad. It makes sense to ask, “What did the people who wrote this mean? How did they understand this?” Those are good questions that will get you good information.
As a dogma or as The One True Way, it absolutely stinks.
They key point here is that 1790 opinion doesn't change, so if you're basing the interpretation off it, the interpretation should be stable.
Stability in law until formally changed is an important element of the rule of law.
Now, when people start going on about how public opinion has changed, and the interpretation of the Constitution should change with it, have you ever noticed that they never say this about public opinion changing in a way they don't like? And there isn't really any formal, objective way of determining that public opinion, either.
Basically, they're just people saying, "The Constitution should be interpreted the way I like, because obviously most people agree with me."
Well, if most people agreed with them, they could get an amendment ratified...
What a functionalist argument you are making. Courts main job is not stability if the law.
Originalism is not stable because historicism from centuries ago is not determinative. And because if how many flavors there are.
There are two separate issues: What does the law mean, and why do we care. The latter is always going to be "functionalist", isn't it?
There are at least 2 nonfunctionalist reasons to follow the law.
Ideals/morals - the law reflects how we want to be, not just what we want to gain.
Positivisim - the law reflects the system of authority we have, and should be followed because we like the system.
It's conspicuous that both the reasons you give are contingent on liking the law, and thus perfectly consistent with a program of just pretending the law already means whatever you approve of, regardless of any meaning a disinterested observer would attribute to it.
Positivism is explicitly not about liking the law, it's about liking the legitimacy of the system of authority, or even just not liking the alternative. Those are very much not the same thing.
Idealism need not be about liking an individual law either; in fact you'd go nuts if you put every law through a moral calculous before you decided whether to follow it.
The only 1790 opinion about "cruel and unusual punishment" that was entrenched into law was the opinion that it shouldn't be allowed.
The Constitution doesn't say only things that are C&P today are barred. The term practically invites redefinition as opinion changes.
No matter what Thomas says, we are not bound by 1790 practices.
Canada famously has an age 19 drinking law. Teens from Michigan would go to Windsor to drink, then come home.
An enterprising police thug decided to ticket drunk teens (not the driver). Somehow this passed the courts.
Back when Ohio was 18 and PA was 21 it used to happen all the time. Got caught up in it once myself in my misbegotten youth.
To the extent modern public opinion is appropriate, then what is the court even doing here? The voters can do this by voting and writing their elected officials. These laws are incredibly popular, which is why they're so common and interest groups went to court to try to have them overturned.
It's certainly relevant that the people who wrote and passed the 8th Amendment had vagrancy laws, as did the people who wrote and passed the 14th Amendment. So neither current voters or the voters who were around at the time found these laws unconstitutional. That's surely relevant. I was actually kind of surprised by the lack of historical discussion in either the majority or dissent; the briefing was there, but I guess this case was easy enough for the majority that they didn't feel the need to get into it and the dissent didn't get into it because it's yet another fatal bodyblow to their case.
Viewing the Eighth Amendment as reflecting evolving standards of decency goes back to at least 1910. Man, that Earl Warren was everywhere.
To the extent the 8th Amendment reflects evolving standards of decency, then the voters can handle it. It's a bit rich to override the voters because the evolving standard of decency says they're wrong. If the opinion of the voters doesn't count when considering "evolving standards of decency," then what does?
Right. You don't need judges to take surveys and look at public opinion polls and decide things on popularity. That's what politicians are for. If we're "interpreting" the Constitution in this way then judges don't need to decide constitutional issues at all.
That's insane. What is the definition of "unusual?" Rare, uncommon, etc. Whether something is unusual or not is decided by context - contemporary context.
The Constitution doesn't say, "Here are the punishments that are banned." And what would they be, anyway? Did the states have identical penal codes? 1790 opinion could vary greatly by state.
And the idea that Congress can pass new legislation is ridiculous. It can't do that every time some new criminal punishment is dreamed up. Essentially what you are saying is that we need to pass the Amendment again, with the exact same wording, and all will be well.
Get a brain. And ask Thomas where he found Presidential immunity in the Constitution.
Originalism is a sham.
It's not as much of a sham as living constitutionalism is. Claiming to be changing the Constitution to match evolving public opinion, when it's actually the living constitutionalist's opinions being deployed.
Take same sex marriage. State after state democratically tried to stop it, even California voted against it, twice. (Proposition 22 in 2000, Proposition 8 in 2008.) How many living constitutionalists said, "Welp, I guess I was wrong about which way public opinion had evolved! Never mind about SSM being constitutionally mandated, that was a mistake."
I can't think of one. The appeal to evolving standards is a total sham.
At this late date you have no idea all about the theories of interpretation that are alternatives to originalism. (Which, for your very pointed view of originalism include a lot of originalist methods like Baude's!)
You lump them into one big category and yell about what they are without really engaging with any of them in particular.
I mean, your example of the evils of not sticking with 1790s morality is that an interpretation of the Constitution changed from what it was.
Without going into the methodology behind the opinion, that's only bad if you beg the question. It says a lot you go only into the outcome of Obergefell, not it's analysis.
It's a Kennedy decision, there's some low hanging fruit for you there. But if you're so lazy you haven't bothered to learn anything about what you argue against, I don't expect you to go into actual Supreme Court language.
What the judiciary don't like acknowledging is that the 8th amendment was aimed at THEM. It was meant to keep judges from getting inventive about torturing people, not to keep legislatures from deciding appropriate penalties for crimes.
I'm not saying it doesn't apply to legislatures at all, the general language obviously applies to punishments regardless of who decides them. But the primary focus was on the people doing the sentencing, the judges. That should inspire some humility on the part of the judiciary.
Awesome originalism. I love the sources, and their analysis. "Obviously" is as always a masterstroke.
Very concrete and determinative. The stability of the law emanating from takes like this is breathtaking.
How do you tell what the words in the Constitution mean? Public opinions at the time it was enacted may be relevant evidence.
But your proposal is what - just look at public opinion of today and reinterpret the Constitution to agree with that? No need for amendments any more, then?
Many 'originalists' disagree with you.
Which Originalism are we talking about?
Actual Originalism
Framework Originalism
Intrinsicist Originalism
Instrumental Originalism
Liquidated Originalism
Original Intent
Original Meaning
Original Methods Originalism
Original Public Meaning
Semantic Originalism
Structuralism
Textualism
“Halfway Originalism”
“History & Tradition” with a special focus on “analogous regulation”
I can see you are confused.
“Originalism” is the proposition that the meaning of the Constitution doesn’t change until it is properly changed by amendment. Your list of legal academic terms doesn’t change that. There are, of course, questions about what that meaning is and how to determine it.
Any questions?
When "originalists" leverage those open "questions" in order to find a way thru to a results-oriented outcome, what do you call that? Corrupt Constitutionalism?
That might work. Just to clarify, you are referring to Kagan, Soto, etc? They’re all originalists, IIRC.
Don't take refuge is crap partisanship, deal with the charge that Randal made, don't play games.
Are you thinking of the "we're all textualists now" Kagan quote?
“Originalism” is the proposition that the meaning of the Constitution doesn’t change until it is properly changed by amendment.
And why is it your version, or Thomas' of how to determine meaning that is correct? Look, you can define a term like Cruel and Unusual Punishment a couple of ways. One is by listing the specific relevant practices of the time. But why does that win?
You can also, more sensibly, define it as practices the public finds cruel and unusual. Those change. They should change. There is no logical reason to use your definition in preference.
Once again, it doesn't say practices regarded as cruel and unusual in 1790 are barred. It says cruel and unusual punishments are barred. Are new punishments, undreamed of in 1790, automatically OK? That's what your logic suggests.
Admittedly, cruel and unusual is something I really haven’t thought about at all. You make some good points.
However, if we assume you are correct, and the meaning of the 8th amendment is to bar whatever practices evolving public opinion generally finds cruel and unusual from time to time – then, that is its meaning, now, yesterday, and a hundred years ago. Yes? Its the same meaning, it hasn’t changed, only the application to changing facts looks different.
"from time to time?"
Yes, isn't that obvious? If the meaning of the 8th amendment incorporates a variable of evolving public opinion re which methods of punishment are cruel and unusual, then it calls for reevaluation of public opinion from time to time.
It's like one of those state Constitution provisions that incorporate an inflation metric to limit property tax increases. You have to go and calculate the inflation figure to know how much property taxes can increase.
Seems quite undirected.
Yes, there are certainly many arguments against this view of the 8th amendment being offered by bernard and others.
It's a view you're putting in bernard's mouth. Seems pretty dirty pool to then say it's badly written so bernard's argument is bad.
Isn't this a solved problem re: obscenity? And yet I haven't seen anything about 'time to time' in that body of law.
How do you tell what the words in the Constitution mean?
Words mean what they meant. We know what "unusual" meant.
But they're applied to the context as it exists. We determine what's unusual by looking at it in context, i.e. the present day, not "would it have been unusual in 1790." Obviously.
We determine what’s unusual by looking at it in context,
Right. The word itself practically demands that.
Originalism is like a bad magic show with a magician who never tries to conceal his sleight of hand.
Originalism is like a piece of Swiss cheese.
The only thing more like a bad magic show or a piece of swiss cheese than originalism . . . is the alternative to originalism.
What an incredible defense of originalism. So long as it's not worse than how *you perceive* the alternatives, be as inconsistent and janky as you want.
What an incredible criticism of originalism. So long as you never specify or defend any alternative, be as vague and unhinged as you want, tossing out random adjectives and analogies with zero supporting evidence or reasoning.
I've criticized originalism plenty of times on here; this is not one of them.
I'm criticizing your comment. It was very bad.
It was a perfect comment, responding exactly to what it replied to and cutting to the heart of the matter.
Meanwhile your argument isn't an argument against originalism, it's just an argument for better originalism.
Your defense or originalism is to look over there at the liberals in your head.
the point of my argument is that YOU don't seem to be arguing for better originalism. You're not arguing, you're rationalizing.
That's bad. Have some principles beyond tribalism.
Yes, because it's the Framers intent that matters. The fact that it prevails even against sometimes broad opposition is proof of it's wisdom. The Constitution isn't a popularity contest.
What pinched and fearful creatures these Founders were, that they sought to calcify one particular moment in history, and use that public opinion forever.
Or, maybe, that's not what they wanted or did.
Not a moment in history, rather an approach, viewpoint, way of thinking, and philosophy of how a people are to be governed. Those beliefs and values don’t change over time. Sure questions arise today they could never have imagined, but thankfully we have a pretty good rulebook to guide us to stop us from making it up out of thin air.
This sounds more like purposivist Active Liberty to me than any of the flavors of originalism on the menu these days.
We don't have a rulebook - we have a framework. The rules build up from bodies of precedent foundational on that framework.
The various flavors of originalism are some of the ways to build up that body of precedent; there are other ways as well - modern public meaning, purposivism, common law constitutionalism, etc.
Feel free to prefer some or one to others.
The current era of invoking originalism and then ignoring precedent is a silly one; it's not even going to end anywhere conservative, it's just going to be chaotic for a long while as we start from square 1.
But that's not what you are saying. You are saying they wanted to enshrine not principles, but rather the practices of the time.
Actually, framer intent was abandoned very quickly by most originalists in favor of original meaning, because even they knew a silly basis for jurisprudence that was.
No, intent (and the evidence thereof) is just the best/same evidence of/as original meaning. Nothing changed other than more refined theoretical descriptions in law review articles.
Hey. That tool is the "intellectual and theoretical leader on the court" per Blackman.
It's an absurd proposition, just ridiculous beyond belief.
Oh, and one last piece of advice: in every future Eighth Amendment case, the defendant should preserve the issue of whether any applicable overrule Warren and Burger Court precedents.
I think the bolded type should read “the defendant should preserve the issue of whether to overrule any applicable Warren or Burger Court precedents.”
This also makes no sense. Why would the defendant want to overturn Warren court precedent?
I assume Prof. Blackman is talking about cases like this one, where a government is being sued because a plaintiff wants to stop it from enforcing a given law.
I agree that this is not, to put it mildly, the typical procedural posture when the Eighth Amendment is implicated.
Classic Blackman. Conceiving of cases as special interest groups challenging policies and not, you know, actual human beings being subject to laws. Although TBF, this is how a lot of SCOTUS litigation has been over the last few years.
Well, a case like Grants Pass was not brought as a defense to a criminal prosecution; it was brought as a suit for injunctive relief on behalf of some homeless people. So the city was the defendant.
"If the Senate is evenly divided, the Vice President can cast a tie-breaking vote."
This is wrong. In the event of a tie the Vice President determines which side prevails; he doesn't actually cast a vote.
"doesn’t actually cast a vote"
The official US senate site says after quoting the Constitution:
"Since 1789, 301 tie-breaking votes have been cast."
?
"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided"
So they have no vote unless they be equally divided. In other words, they do have a vote if they are equally divided.
Article I makes it seem like the VP does have a vote (when the Senate is equally divided).
Anybody out there have any scholarship on why that's the case, by the way? It seems kind of pointless. So at the time they would have been envisioning 26 senators for the 13 new states, so the VP only gets to vote if it's 13-13. Except say the vote is 14-10; the VP votes and changes it to 15-10 or 13-12. Who cares? Let the VP cast meaningless votes if they feel like it, it gets them on record what their position on various policies is.
The only time it would seem to matter is if the VP gave (or denied) Congress the 2/3 needed to override a veto, but it seems like it would be simpler to just prevent the VP from voting in the context of Congress trying to override a veto.
Because abstentions matter. In your case of 26 senators, consider a vote where 5 abstain or are absent. You don't want the VP intruding (or being lobbied to intrude) to turn a 11-10 vote into an even split of 11-11. It defeats the entire point of the VP as tie-breaker.
Justice Stewart (the author of Robinson) and Black dissented in Griswold. They were part of the majority in Robinson. Clark and White dissented. They concurred in Griswold.
In the opening statement during the oral argument, Robinson’s lawyer referenced how the law “punishes an involuntary status” and a “status of physical and mental illness.”
This was a factor (again quoting) why this “imposes a cruel and unusual punishment.”
It “punishes” an involuntary status. What amendment of the Constitution (not some “emanation” of one) explicitly deals with punishment? What is a factor in what makes something “cruel”?
We are not just talking about deprivation of liberty, such as civil commitment. We are talking about punishment in a cruel way, which is the explicit concern of the 8th Amendment.
The lawyer later emphasizes how the pain of withdrawal underlines why it is cruel to criminalize being an addict.
The Robinson opinion has some due process language, but the Bill of Rights as a whole enumerates multiple specific due process protections. There is an overlap. For instance, “unusual” in the 8A sense includes arbitrary punishments that would even without the 8A in various cases be a due process violation.
Justice Black’s concurrence in Powell v. Texas provides some useful discussion on what he believed was the logic behind Robinson, which again was specifically about punishment.
The majority and more so Douglas' concurrence references some history. The Warren Court not being "originalist" as such -- outside of Justice Black -- is granted. In my view, that is not a bad thing.
I don’t think this accurately describes this case at all. The Supreme Court had abolished the status/conduct distinction in Lawrence v. Texas, overruling a series of cases holding that sodomy is status, not conduct, and holding that sodomy and homosexual status are essentially indistinguishable. It essentially overruled Robinson.
Grant Park restored Robinson.
In the decades between Robinson and Lawrence, Robinson was repeatedly cited by conservative courts rebuffing claims that a variety of things traditionally prohibited violate the Equal Protection clause because they allegedly involve status, not conduct. Robinson is, for example,the reason courts rebuffed a claimed Equal Protection right to have an abortion. Since it was conduct, not status, the Equal Protection Clause just doesn’t apply. Same with sodomy laws.
The Court here is again using Robinson in a conservative way, just as lower courts had done for decades. And in doing so, it is sub silentio repudiating the reasoning behind Lawrence v. Texas.
I just find it odd that Professor Blackman would refer to a conservative court’s restoring an essentially conservative case that a more liberal court had essentially overruled as “refusing to extend” that case, as if it had been a liberal rather than a conservative case in its practical effect.
I loathe it has to come to this to be free.
They all violate the it ain’t your fukkin business rule.
Your analysis of Lawrence and Bowers is wrong. Neither was based on the distinction between status and conduct. Rather the question was whether sodomy between consulting adults was conduct that could be regulated by the state. Bowers said yes, Lawrence reversed course a decade later (so much for the sacred stare decisis) and said no.
That is, what Robinson is most known for in practice is a NARROW definition of status, a definition much narrower than the Court’s liberal wing would have liked. This is why it was historically welded by conservatives much more often than liberals.
A claim that it was an egregiously wrong Eighth Amendment decision based on originalist grounds without any citation to any law at the time of the founding that punished drug addiction. Seems a bit odd. If it was unusual at the time, seems there's an argument that the law would not have been accepted at the time.
Also, why the hell would a defendant want to preserve arguments overturning Warren Court precedents? Maybe Terry v. Ohio?
I agree this was not written very clearly, but Prof. Blackman is talking about a government defending against a claim that enforcing its law would violate the Eighth Amendment, not a criminal defendant.
If that's the case, the terminology is all wrong. The government is not called a "defendant."
Look, Josh doesn't write well, but the government was called, and was, a defendant in this case.
"one must be followed"
That would make Kagan a likely leader, including the media case where she might have taken an opinion away from Alito. If Barrett is a justice often in play, her voice can matter. Her views will be "followed" in the sense she is a vote you seek out.
Thomas is not "followed" as much by the Court itself though he is a "thought leader" big picture.
I think Justice Thomas sees the body of law as a corpus that should be consistent under his originalist jurisprudence, and so he's always looking for inconsistencies that need correcting. Other justices have pet issues that they want furthered or changed (like Justice Alito's relentless push to overturn Roe, which he accomplished in Dobbs, Justice Gorsuch's interest in Indian law, and Justice Sotomayor's interest in criminal trials), or an interest in the overall integrity of the Court (per the Chief Justice). So I would agree that Thomas has the most well-developed jurisprudence on the Court, although it is less persuasive than Justice Scalia's textualism, which has been so influential that even the Left has accepted it (per Justice Jackson, for example).
That said, Thomas joining with the majority opinion in the Trump immunity case was a big hit on his originalist credibility. Sotomayor had the better of the originalist/textualist argument there.
I find discussions like these very frustrating.
It is possible to look at the facts of a case and the potential outcomes available, then reach correct result, but for incorrect reasons. That courts sometimes do this is one reason why our system relies on discrete cases and controversies. It also a reason why our system once had a very narrow view of holdings vs. dicta -- some vestiges of which still remain.
Not only would I argue that courts sometimes reach correct conclusions for incorrect reasons, I would argue that the Warren court often did that. This is for the same reason that the Warren court often reached incorrect results -- that court didn't care to justify that certain of its decisions were grounded in law. But just because the Warren court made unjustified wrong decisions, doesn't mean it is worth overturning its unjustified correct decisions. Baby; bathwater.
Okay, so the Eighth Amendment, properly construed, has nothing to say about the substantive definitions of offenses or the evidence that may be used to prove them. Fine; granted. But our legal system has long held that infamous crimes are the union of guilty mind (mens rea) and voluntary act or omission (actus reus). And our system has long abhorred irrebuttable presumptions that relieve the state of the burden to prove the actual conduct sought to be criminalized.
It hardly seems a stretch to say that these principles prevent the state from criminalizing the non-act of being an addict and instead require it to prove an unlawful act of voluntary use or possession, whether directly or by inference -- something the laws of a majority of jurisdictions have always done.
And it hardly seems a stretch to say that these principles have a constitutional dimension. It is hard to imagine that the drafters of the reconstruction amendments intended for states to be able to thwart black freedom through laws that criminalized status.
So, what exactly is the point of saying that Robinson should be overruled and then saying no more? Is the person saying it cannot be justified on any grounds? Then say that, and assume the burden to show it. Is the person just saying that a sufficient justification was not provided at the time? Then say that, and make an argument for why we should upset lots of settled expectations without actually concluding that those expectations are wrong. Is the person admitting that the result was right, but just saying the reasoning was wrong? Then say that, and make an argument why that even requires overruling the precedent, rather than simply re-casting it.
I think Gorsuch takes the right tack here. He notes the arguments for why Robinson makes more sense as a Morrissette-line case. He notes that no one is asking to overturn the reasoning of Robinson, so the Court doesn't need to reach the question of how it is justified. And he explains why the result in Robinson, however conceived, does not require striking down the particular law in question.
Good comment. I don't agree with parts of it, but it's appreciated.
I agree with most of this too.
I'd add that criminalizing status in the Robinson sense, especially an immutable status, is tantamount to authorizing a life sentence for an otherwise petty crime, because the "criminal" could be re-arrested and reconvicted immediately upon completion if his previous sentence.
That, to me, does violate the 8th Amdt.
I’ll concede that Robinson is possibly wrong as a matter of law but it is very right as a matter of policy. If the Constitution does not protect one from prosecution on the basis of an uncontrollable status, then we need a constitutional amendment to make that so.
I would submit, though, that there is legal reasoning that supports Robinson's outcome even if the Warren court didn't get to it properly. In my opinion, all crimes should have a mens rea requirement. Status crimes fail that test. You may know that you are homeless but very few people knowingly and intentionally choose to be homeless. (Yes, my mens rae rule would require overturning a number of other unjust laws. Feature, not bug.)
"In my opinion, all crimes should have a mens rea requirement. Status crimes fail that test."
More significantly, a status crime fails to have even an actus reus requirement, no?
Also true and possibly a better description of my concern. But that principle is not nearly as well known as mens rea.
But when was the last time you saw a law punishing being homeless? Sure, doing things people who lack homes would probably do, but the status itself?
Grants Pass didn't stop people on the sidewalk, ask them if they had a home, and arrest them if the answer was "no". That's what punishing "homelessness" would involve, after all. But if you had a home, and for for whatever reason pitched a tent in the park? You'd get arrested. That's punishing camping in the park irregardless of status.
And I HAVE pitched a tent in a public park, and spent the night there, myself, several times, on long road trips. Probably illegally, but it saved a lot on hotel bills. So this isn't an absurd hypothetical, non-homeless people do actually camp in parks occasionally.
If you're going to overturn Robinson, you'll need a test case. Lets say the City of Houston passes an ordinance making it a misdemeanor to have a cold. Houston PD arrests Blackman for sneezing. There's your test case.
Just as something interesting, not legally binding, I think it would be interesting to take the Constitution and all of the writings and correspondences of the Founders and Framers and feed them into an AI just to see what it had to say about some of the more important Decisions over the last several decades just as an exercise in curiosity.
The problem with that is that the current LLM AIs require absurdly large amounts of training data in order to work. There isn't actually enough relevant material to pull this off.
So, to get anything intelligible, you'd have to start with a massive amount of modern material, and only then input the historical data, and the output would be heavily colored by the modern data you chose.
If you’re looking for the “intellectual and theoretical leader on the court” of the Court, it is still Justice Thomas. Justice Barrett tends to write separately to moderate when she cannot join a conservative majority opinion in full. To be a leader, one must be followed.
Josh… huh? Thomas is the least followed justice. Whenever you hear a decision is 8-1, don’t you just automatically assume that the 1 is probably Thomas? He's not a leader at all. He's the court's kooky uncle.
Yet over the course of time, those 8-1 losses have become 5-4 or 6-3 victories. Thomas has pulled the Court his way during his tenure. That is what Josh is referring to.
Of course, on today's court, the single dissenting Justice is typically Jackson.
What's an example of an issue where a justice had been against Thomas originally and then over time evolved to Thomas’s viewpoint?