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New Article: The General Law Right to Bear Arms
with implications for the pending Supreme Court case of United States v. Rahimi
Professor Robert Leider and I have a new article on the right to keep and bear arms available on SSRN. It is called The General Law Right to Bear Arms and it is part of a symposium in the Notre Dame Law Review. In brief, we argue that the Supreme Court's decision in NYSRPA v. Bruen has been misunderstood and therefore unfairly maligned. From the introduction:
New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen marked an important methodological return to original legal principles. The legal issues in the case were whether the right to bear arms included the general right to carry handguns outside the home for self-defense, and if so, whether New York could restrict the carrying of handguns for self-defense to only those residents who had a special need for self-defense ("proper cause"). In answering these questions, however, the Court also made broad pronouncements about the correct way to decide the scope of the right to keep and bear arms, criticizing the methodological approach that had become common in the lower courts. Specifically, the Court emphasized the role of history and tradition, rather than what it called "interest balancing," and then proceeded to analyze the history of the regulation of arms-bearing for eighteen pages.
This was an attempt at an overdue doctrinal course correction. The Supreme Court first recognized an individual right to bear arms for self-defense in District of Columbia v. Heller. But since Heller, lower court judges had been "narrowing [Heller] from below." For example, in the name of intermediate scrutiny, lower courts had upheld laws that, in essence, prevented most citizens in those jurisdictions from exercising the right to bear arms at all.
Lower courts have since understood Bruen's text, history, and tradition test to require them to survey historical gun laws to determine whether modern laws have analogues in early American practice. And this presents a problem. The Framing era had few gun laws, and thus, few analogues from which to draw. Meanwhile, judges also complain that they are not historians, even turning to expert testimony to apply the Second Amendment post-Bruen.
In this Article, we argue that Bruen's intended methodological shift has been widely misunderstood by the bench and bar. This has led to confusion and misapplication in the lower courts, as well as much scholarly criticism of the test that is, we think, misdirected. As we will explain, Bruen calls for a form of legal originalism, applying a classical view of fundamental rights as a form of unwritten customary law. This is consistent with the text and history of the Constitution and leads to results that are less mechanical and more sensible than many lower courts have thought. Understanding Bruen's methodology requires three basic legal concepts: original-law originalism, constitutionalization of pre-existing rights, and the general law.
Original-law originalism maintains that our law today is a form of originalism. Like all forms of originalism, this looks to the past for evidence of today's constitutional law. Original-law originalism focuses more specifically on the law of the past. It holds that our law today is "the Founders' law, as it's been lawfully changed." This means that our law must trace a legal pedigree to the law of the founding and its own rules of legal change.
The constitutionalization of a pre-existing right means that sometimes, perhaps often, the Constitution's reference to a legal right must be understood by learning the historical customary law that defined and governed the right before its codification. Because the Constitution was not creating or defining these terms for the first time, but rather using the legal terminology and legal infrastructure of the day, one cannot entirely understand these rights just by parsing their semantic meaning. The "privilege of the writ of habeas corpus," to take a simple example, should be understood in light of centuries of law about the writ, not only by using a Latin-English dictionary to learn that "habeas" means "you have" and "corpus" means "the body." But the same may be true for many less simple examples, ranging from the right to due process, to the right to freedom of speech, to (indeed) the right to keep and bear arms.
The general-law approach to rights means that the scope of these pre-existing rights was sometimes defined by unwritten law that was neither state common law nor federal common law. Rather the general law – made famous by Justice Story's opinion about commercial law in Swift v. Tyson, and then made infamous by Justice Brandeis's opinion in Erie Railroad v. Tompkins – was a form of common law shared among Anglo-American jurisdictions, which could be expounded by any of them, but controlled by none of them. The general law approach applied not just to the law merchant or the law of torts, but to the fundamental rights of citizenship, and was an important part of the law of the Founding, as well as (one of us has argued) the original meaning of Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment.
These three legal concepts overlap and reinforce one another in important ways. The constitutionalization of pre-existing rights means that to understand the Constitution itself, we must understand the Constitution's legal background. Original law originalism tells us that we are bound by that original meaning of the Constitution, including the surrounding law, not just the semantic meanings of the words. And the general law approach tells us what kind of surrounding law that was, and how it might be applied over time to those bound by the Founders' law today.
While much of this apparatus was operating "under the hood" in Bruen, it shows what the Court was trying to say, and how the right to keep and bear arms should work today.
We also discuss the implications for 18 U.S.C. 922(g), which the Supreme Court will consider in United States v. Rahimi being argued next week:
This brings us to the Supreme Court's currently pending case in United States v. Rahimi, a case reviewing the Fifth Circuit's holding that 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8) – which forbids gun possession by those subject to domestic violence restraining orders – is facially unconstitutional. There is much to be said on the merits of the case but our central point here is one of methodology. The Fifth Circuit erred by analyzing the case at the level of overly specific analogies – too close to demanding the kind of "historical twin" or "dead ringer" that Bruen rejects.
Instead, the case should be approached at the level of general law principle – by asking not just who historically has been denied the right to arms, but why and to what extent. Section 922(g)(8), like many federal prohibitions, amounts to a total denial of the right for certain people. In evaluating the constitutionality of this ban, the most important questions are the public interests the state seeks to pursue and whether pursuing those interests with a complete ban on possession has a basis in general law principles.
For instance, then-Seventh-Circuit-Judge Barrett has derived from the historical sources a basic principle that "legislatures have the power to prohibit dangerous people from possessing guns. But that power extends only to people who are dangerous." As Barrett argued, this dangerousness principle can perhaps be gleaned from discussions at the state conventions to ratifying the original Constitution, and is certainly more plausible as a matter of Founding-era law than a broader principle of disarming all lawbreakers, or even all criminal felons. At the level of method, this is exactly the right kind of principle for adjudicating the right to keep and bear arms. It would be a defensible approach for the Court to take in analyzing 922(g) in Rahimi and future cases.
Applying a hypothetical general-law dangerousness principle would provide a reason to reject the Fifth Circuit's approach in Rahimi. The Fifth Circuit found section 922(g)(8) facially unconstitutional. But section 922(g)(8)(C)(i) applies only to those restraining orders that "include[] a finding that" the defendant "represents a credible threat to the physical safety" of their partner or child – that is, a specific finding of dangerousness. If a general-law dangerousness principle exists, this provision certainly satisfies it. So (g)(8) as a whole would not be facially unconstitutional by depriving dangerous individuals of arms.
Assuming the dangerous principle is correct, the other half of section 922(g)(8) – (C)(ii) – presents a serious problem. That provision does not require any finding of dangerousness, applying to any restraining order that explicitly prohibits the use of physical force. To uphold (C)(ii) would require judges to give Congress a fair measure of freedom to regulate dangerousness prophylactically, even in cases involving a permanent and total denial of the right. That may be asking too much of the general law.
These questions, and this framework, will have application beyond Rahimi. The Court is already confronting multiple cases about the constitutionality of other federal prohibitions, including the prohibition on possession of guns by any felon. Again, something like the dangerousness principle would give the Court a tractable way to adjudicate the lawful scope of this statute. If the dangerousness principle is the lodestar, a complete lifetime ban on possession of a weapon by any felon is plainly too broad. Rather, the dangerousness principle would require more proportionality and tailoring between the government's interests and the burden on the right. For one thing, it would support a distinction between some felonies and others. At the extremes, a murder conviction has long been thought obvious evidence of future dangerousness; but it seems impossible to imagine that a conviction for making false statements about stock transactions would be. Exactly where in between to draw the line is something the courts are currently debating and would eventually resolve in common law fashion.
For another thing, the constitutionality of Section 922(g) might be bolstered by – and might even require – an additional form of tailoring. A potentially important but moribund provision of federal law, 18 U.S.C. § 925(c), allows those who are prohibiting from possessing firearms to "make application to the Attorney General for relief from the disabilities imposed by Federal laws." The "Attorney General may grant such relief if it is established to his satisfaction that the circumstances regarding the disability, and the applicant's record and reputation, are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest." Section 925(c) also provides for judicial review of a denial of this application.
Taken seriously, this provision could do a great deal to render the various federal firearms provisions consistent with a hypothetical general-law dangerousness principle. Part of the standard for relief is basically a dangerousness principle ("likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety") and so this might be the appropriate legal channel for anybody who would otherwise have an as-applied constitutional challenge to the federal prohibitions.
However, for over thirty years, Congress has blocked the implementation of Section 925(c). As the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives reports: "Although federal law provides a means for the relief of firearms disabilities, ATF's annual appropriation since October 1992 has prohibited the expending of any funds to investigate or act upon applications for relief from federal firearms disabilities submitted by individuals. As long as this provision is included in current ATF appropriations, ATF cannot act upon applications for relief from federal firearms disabilities submitted by individuals." And because ATF cannot review the petitions at all, the Supreme Court has held, judicial review is unavailable too. Implementing a general law approach through a dangerousness principle might force Congress to reconsider this intransigence and restore Section 925 to its original role, or else face the legal consequences. . . .
Whether and how the Court will implement these general law principles is something that will have to be left to future cases. Indeed, as in any common-law field, and so many other areas of law, it is difficult to fully assess a decision like Bruen until its meaning has been "liquidated and ascertained by a series of particular discussions and adjudications." But our fundamental point is that this kind of general common law exposition is what Bruen calls for – not blanket deference to the legislature or the mindless parsing of historical analogies.
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"Lower courts have since understood Bruen's text, history, and tradition test to require them to survey historical gun laws to determine whether modern laws have analogues in early American practice. And this presents a problem. The Framing era had few gun laws, and thus, few analogues from which to draw. "
That's not a "problem". The framing era had few gun laws because the right to keep and bear arms was generally not being violated.
Most modern gun laws were adopted with the intention of violating that right. Of course they won't have analogs from an era when it wasn't violated.
I think there are many gun laws today that violate the 2nd Amendment. But a pure historical analog approach threatens to do the same thing that Substantive Due Process does, turn legislative choices into constitutional requirements. To hold to the pure historical analog approach requires the assumption that in the founding era states legislated against absolutely every instance they could to restrict arms; that is the legislated to the fullest extent allowed. That is an extraordinary assumption to make, and one that I don't think can be supported
The thing is, on the one hand we've got an Amendment which is, in the fashion of such amendments, phrased very absolutely. On the other hand, we know from founding era practice that it wasn't considered to be THAT absolute. The right could be tangentially burdened, or lost for cause.
So founding era practices are considered to identify exceptions to the otherwise absolute text.
But where there were no founding era practices, there simply isn't any BASIS for claiming there's an exception!
And, we have to consider the later history: Most gun laws started showing up after the Civil war, rather blatantly as a component of Jim Crow. They were, clearly, intended to violate the rights of the disfavored group. That the disfavored group was later expanded to include basically everybody hardly changes that intent.
Federal gun laws showed up even later, and were, expressly, motivated by a desire to get rid of a right that politicians didn't like. There was scarcely even an effort to pretend otherwise, at first!
You know what's going on here? A failure of nerve. That's all. Some people who, theoretically, want the right vindicated, and understand full well that things like Red Flag laws are very recent efforts to undermine an enforced civil right, are suffering a failure of nerve. They can't think it possible to restore the full extent of this right, so they're trying to construct excuses to only partly restore it.
And hoping the Court will draw back from a principled ruling that they think can't be politically sustained. But, you know what could be politically sustained in the case of Rahmi?
The argument that he should have been in jail, damn it!
"So founding era practices are considered to identify exceptions to the otherwise absolute text."
Well, no. Because you aren't viewing this in the same way that someone at the time viewed it. Because the common law (which was viewed differently then) and the so-called "absolute text" (which was also viewed differently then) is not construed the same way that we do today. Our jurisprudence is completely different. You're demanding that we import our views (in terms of reading texts, in terms of understanding common law) into a period when that wasn't applicable.
Moreover, you're making the category error identified by the person you are responding to. In other words, you are assuming that when they wrote it, they were saying, "These exceptions that we already have, and no more." But why are you assuming that? Why isn't the assumption, "The types of laws that we would think to be fine, will continue to be fine. Just because we haven't passed them yet doesn't mean we can't."
There are two types of laws we could be discussing.
Type A makes a particular action a felony, so that conviction for that action results in a loss of rights.
Type B skips the conviction for a felony, and dictates the loss of rights by some lesser process.
Type A is fairly unproblematic, constitutionally.
We happen to be discussing type B here.
No. Actually, we are discussing general jurisprudential approaches.
You start with your desired conclusion, and reason backwards. I want to establish the correct principle, and then apply specific instances.
Massive difference.
Sure there is. There are (at least) two.
The first is what you said:
Bruen seems to dictate that no new tangents or causes are allowed. But that’s silly as mse326 pointed out. There’s no reason to assume that the Founders had already legislated all possible tangents and causes. Instead, the lesson we should take from the Founding is that tangential burdens and loss of the right for cause are both fine. Possibly other categories of burden as well.
The second basis is the prefatory clause, which explains the purpose of the right. As with all rights, burdens that conflict with the purpose (such as constraints on political speech) are held to a much higher standard than those that don’t (such as defamation). We should assess gun laws by the extent to which they frustrate a well-regulated militia.
The prefatory clause was an example not a limit.
Creative! But laughable. I'd love to see that opinion.
Actually it’s a condition, in the subjunctive mood. The word “being”, in “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state…” is like “The weather being nasty, you should wear your warmest coat.” “Being” in this construct means that the weather is nasty at the time the sentence is spoken or written, and, that if or when the weather clears up, the injunction or advice in the following part shall cease to apply (you won’t need your warmest coat any more). The part before the word “being” is asserted at the time of speaking, and, the part after the word “being” only applies so long as the part before it continues to be true.
So the grammatical interpretation of the Amendment is something like “A well-regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state now, so you mustn’t infringe the right to keep and bear arms, and, when (if ever) the well-regulated militia ceases to be necessary for the security of a free state, from that moment onward, you can ignore this amendment (just as you can stop wearing your warmest coat, and ignore this advice altogether, as soon as the weather clears up).”
Or, you know, because the guns at the time (and the issues then) were completely different to the extent that the idea of having a law that specific never occurred to them. Why would there be a law regarding guns and domestic violence, when domestic violence wasn't even a thing?
Or we could actually ask even more specific questions- for example, when looking at state laws regarding guns, why are we looking at the gun laws in the 18th century, when we should be looking at the state of gun laws when the 14th Amendment was passed?
Or we could even say to ourselves, "Self, has anyone noticed the vast problems that are already occurring when we try to turn every legal issue into an historical inquiry, and assume that trial court judges given disparate information by adverse parties who are untrained in history are likely to come to a correct answer?"
Finally, as to the OP, I am somewhat entertained by the idea that Bruen is correct, so long as you ignore what Thomas wrote, and instead insert what you think he might have meant. Don't do what he says, instead, do what you think might work.
Domestic violence wasn't even a thing? LOL. Are you listening to yourself?
Even if you accept that the historical analogue approach isn't workable, then the court should return to a real strict scrutiny similar to what is used for other rights. That means that the government can't merely claim "This law is constitutional because guns are dangerous, and we believe that this law will improve safety."
That's what was happening under the "two step" approach pre-Bruen, and courts would uphold every single law.
"Why would there be a law regarding guns and domestic violence, when domestic violence wasn’t even a thing?"
Do you understand the problem here? It is NOT that domestic violence is being treated as a crime. It is perfectly legitimate to enact laws prohibiting domestic violence, or just enforce normal laws against violence intra-family, and then apply perfectly normal consequences for a felony conviction. Convict Rahmi and you can certainly deprive him of the right to keep and bear arms! Jail him until the trial, and he can't shoot anybody in the mean time.
The problem here is the desire to apply the consequences of a felony conviction without a felony conviction!
The problem here is a desire to deprive people of this particular civil liberty with less due process than would be demanded for other civil liberties!
The Court has been restoring the 2nd amendment to the status of a normal civil liberty, when practice had grown up in the mid 20th century to treat it as a second class right, really more of a privilege than a right.
I really, seriously, object to the desire to stop that progress towards normal civil right status, and roll it back to being just a privilege. You want to deprive somebody of their 2nd amendment rights? CONVICT THEM OF A FELONY!
The blanket felony prohibition may be overly broad, it could simply lead to any number of petty crimes being declared felonies. Such was a case under Jim Crow laws and other Black Codes, they were intended to make petty crimes punishable like more severe crimes for the purposes of disenfranchising free blacks after the passage of the 15th amendment.
I agree that there has been a deplorable amount of "felony inflation", and that really needs to be addressed. But I'm not sure the Court is really competent to address it.
They ARE competent to address attempts to apply the consequences of a felony conviction without bothering to hold a trial, though.
So a couple points. At one point, it was true that domestic battery didn't exist as a crime because husbands could legally beat their wives.
We have progressed beyond that but many states - depending on numerous factors - domestic battery can be a misdemeanor or a felony.
Regarding felonies, it used to be the case, that the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor was the punishment. Misdemeanor folks could spend time in jail and pay fines. Felons were hung from a rope until dead. So you didn't have as much problem about disenfranchising felons. Or de -arming them.
Now that we have thousands of felonies, i do think distinctions should be made between violent felonies (or forcible) and non violent. In my state, a college kid who uses a fake i.d. can commit a class 4 felony. Is that something that should make them lose 2nd amendment rights for life? Of course not. Should someone in my state who violates an order of protection arising out of a misdemeanor domestic battery case where they were found guilty of violently abusing their spouse be allowed to possess weapons? That is a tougher inquiry. Its not a felony. But there is the real and obvious threat that the violence could escalate and if the person has access to firearms, maybe they use them. There are not easy answers to every question. Admittedly, some are much easier than others.
The problem here is that you get a full blown criminal trial for felonies, you get an abbreviated version for misdemeanors. For instance, you can be denied a jury trial in a misdemeanor case, because the Supreme court doesn't understand the word, "all". And misdemeanors don't require use of a grand jury.
So by attaching a normal felony penalty to a misdemeanor, they circumvent due process.
"But there is the real and obvious threat that the violence could escalate and if the person has access to firearms, maybe they use them.
Also knives, baseball bats, ball peen hammers, ice picks, etc.
Convict them of a violent felony, and ask the judge to find that the convict is dangerous.
Make that finding reviewable.
Done.
Do you understand the problem here? You are assuming that conviction for a crime is the only permissible restriction on the RKBA. Do you think that the historical record supports that assumption?
Or we could even say to ourselves, “Self, has anyone noticed the vast problems that are already occurring when we try to turn every legal issue into an historical inquiry, and assume that trial court judges given disparate information by adverse parties who are untrained in history are likely to come to a correct answer?”
Aren't lawyers supposed to be trained in legal history? Or is "citing precedent" not a thing anymore?
Citing precedent is using cases. Just so you’re aware of how that works, there is, in fact, a system for doing so. A lawyer knows which courts have binding precedent, and which courts are merely persuasive (for example). In addition, when it comes to cases, as a general rule … THE MORE RECENT CASES ARE THE ONES THAT YOU USE.
Lawyers are not trained as historians. In fact, “law office history” is not considered a compliment, it’s considered a pejorative.
As Baude has pointed out, your 'lock in the late 1700s which I presume is just what I think' originalism is not what the Founders intended.
"Why would there be a law regarding guns and domestic violence, when domestic violence wasn’t even a thing?"
Have you ever seen the motion picture L.A. Confidential?
Domestic violence was surely a thing, and probably more commonplace than now. In the Colonial era, it wasn't considered a crime. Now it is, just like invidious discrimination against blacks, Chinese, and Indians.
His point was that it wasn't considered a crime. Legally, it wasn't even a thing.
Legally "domestic violence" didn't have to be a thing, because legally "violence" WAS a thing.
As far as I can tell, practice had been to treat assault within the family as just regular assault. Then about the time of the revolution it started to be seen as an issue of familial privacy.
The American Revolution, Wife Beating, and the Emergent Value of Privacy
But domestic violence was largely ignored, or treated as a private matter between husband and wife. Until fairly recently the idea that there was such a thing, as a matter of law, as spousal rape, was controversial.
So it is impossible to find laws taking arms away from abusers, because attitudes were different.
This is the main flaw with the whole "history and tradition" nonsense. The history and traditions developed under different circumstances than today, different attitudes, different political structures.
"because attitudes were different"
those attitudes have changed for the better.
Now we recognize it as an offense, that we can punish as a crime. He fell squarely into the trap that this article specifically warned readers not to fall into.
Nothing goes over your head- your reflexes are too fast.
Sometimes, I worry about the reading comprehension of people. Or, at a minimum, the ability to ignore what is said in order to argue that point you've already made in your head.
It not being a crime wouldn't necessarily prevent you from finding a comparable law, you would want to look for any law creating a lifetime ban on possession of arms (or possibly denial of another constitutional right) after being convicted of a particular crime.
Again, the problem is not the ban after conviction of a crime. That's fairly uncontroversial, at least so far as felonies are concerned.
The problem is the effort to take the rights away without bothering to convict, or after just a misdemeanor conviction. Where the major distinction between misdemeanors and felonies was just exactly that felonies COULD lose you your rights.
We take away gun rights for other reasons, like mental health, that don't require a conviction.
Restraining orders themselves are a deprivation of rights sans conviction.
Who's to say you can't have a restraining order against gun possession?
The question is if the feds can impose collateral consequences based upon restraining orders issued by state courts as a state law remedy.
And, why would you bother?
You've got somebody like Rahmi, who has a track record of violence, is demonstrably willing to violate the law in a violent fashion. And your response is to... tell him he can't have guns? Why not just tell him that he can't shoot anybody?
Why are you treating these people like telling them not to do something is actually going to work? The only time it's going to work is when it didn't need to work!
"Restraining orders themselves are a deprivation of rights sans conviction."
Yes, yes they are. And you don't find that problematic?
One can recognize there is a black market in guns and still not want Rahimi to be able to buy a white market one.
Why, though? White market guns make bigger wounds?
You care enough to make sure it's not a legally purchased gun he shoots somebody with, but not enough to make sure he just doesn't shoot somebody? What sense does that make?
This is not hard: it makes it marginally harder for him to get a gun if he can't just waltz into the hardware store and buy one.
You can make your own explosives; that doesn't mean it's smart to just have a box of dynamite sticks next to the cash register for no questions asked impulse buys.
That, and also it gives officers and potential victims an opportunity to intervene before he shoots anybody.
Obviously, that's the whole point of restraining orders.
"We take away gun rights for other reasons, like mental health, that don’t require a conviction."
That prohibition (in federal law) requires a judicially determined involuntary commitment to in-patient psychiatric treatment. Mere diagnosis of a mental health "disorder" is not enough.
The judicially determined involuntary commitment is not a conviction because the commitment process is considered civil not criminal.
Yeah, very much like the judicial findings required in order to issue a restraining order.
This seems relevant:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/30/maine-gunmans-family-reached-out-to-sheriff-five-months-before-shootings
(The rest of the world is laughing at us about this shit, you know.)
Sure. In the rest of the world individual rights and liberties are regarded as being granted to individuals by the local regime rather than as natural law rights.
Not to worry. I'm sure you're quite accustomed to being laughed at.
I doubt that Federalist Society members are going to control the interpretations of gun laws (at least at the national level and in advanced states) over the medium to long term. Gun advocates might wish to consider that point when selecting co-authors if effectiveness, rather than partisanship and lack-of-virtue signaling, is part of their aim.
You've really nailed that parody leftist schtick, Artie.
You expect conservatives to be calling the shots in America during the medium to long term?
That's about as sensible as relying on the Rapture to settle the culture war (and our environmental problems).
And the general law approach tells us what kind of surrounding law that was, and how it might be applied over time to those bound by the Founders' law today.
That risks a quick plunge off the rails. Unless something tacit is doing a lot of work, Baude thus equates legal history with history taken more broadly. The notion of "history and tradition," is all but meaningless if read to apply only to legal history. But if read more broadly, with lawyers doing the reading, what you are going to get is legal history, and present minded legal history at that.
Left aside is almost every insight that comes from excluding, present-minded context from history and tradition arguments. To understand past context, it is not enough to infer what people knew and said. It is also indispensable to infer accurately what they could not know, or could never believe, because so much of our own experience dates from eras which fell between then and now. Those eras lay in the unknowable future of every past figure who predated them.
Problem is, methods to accomplish that necessary exclusion are not typically practiced by legal scholars, nor even by legal historians. So present-minded context always attributes far too much learned from an irrelevant (because more recent) past to the pertinent past under study.
Some of what Baude has written for this blog has been far above the usual historical norms practiced among legal commenters. This time I think he is running with the present-minded pack.
So if the Second Amendment applies to the States by operation of the 14th Amendment (per City of Chicago, 5-4 majority)...
...and the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868...
...why aren't we talking about the general law and historical practices of the States with respect to gun control as of 1868?
Because about half the states were hellbent on denying the rights of a substantial fraction of their own populations?
I think you're missing my point (or I'm missing yours).
SCOTUS says the 2A was incorporated against the states by the 14A in 1868. That means 2A did not control the states until then. It also means the relevant expectations of the "founders" for purposes of measuring the "general law" of gun control in the states are the expectations of the people who ratified the 14A. It would also imply that the "general law" relevant for 2A (federal) and 2A-via-14A (states) is different. After all, the 10A says powers not prohibited to the states [as of the date of 2A] are reserved to them.
So you're saying you agree with the point Baude made in the article on that? Calling for more clarity from the court on that point?
"To be sure, there is much about the general law right to keep and bear arms
that remains to be worked out. For instance, the Court has not been entirely clear on
the relevant timing question – whether to use the general law understanding of the
right from 1791, 1868, or even today. There are parts of Heller and Bruen compatible
with any of these three."
This may be a fair reading of current precedents, but I'm not too optimistic it's how the Court's gonna go if it's tested.