The Volokh Conspiracy
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Could Congress Ban Abortion Nationwide if Roe Gets Overruled?
Under current Supreme Court precedent, the answer is probably "yes." But that precedent might not hold, thanks in part to Clarence Thomas.

As you probably know by now, a leaked draft Supreme Court opinion indicates there may well be five justices prepared to overrule Roe v. Wade. For a long time, many assumed that if Roe were to be overruled, abortion policy would be "left to the states." That will indeed happen in the short run. But such a state of affairs might not last. Many Republicans have been advocating nationwide bans on abortion, including very sweeping ones that would forbid all abortions more than six weeks into a pregnancy. For their part, many Democrats, including Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, back nationwide legislation protecting abortion rights.
Would such laws be constitutional? I have written about this issue twice before (see here and here). The bottom line is that current Supreme Court precedent likely would enable Congress to ban most, if not all, abortions if it wanted to. That's because the Court has endorsed a ridiculously broad interpretation of Congress' powers to regulate interstate commerce. But that precedent might be pared back, thanks in part to that unlikely champion of abortion rights, Clarence Thomas.
Here's why current precedent likely supports broad congressional power to restrict abortion:
Under cases such as Gonzales v. Raich (2005), the Supreme Court has held that Congress' power to regulate interstate commerce includes the authority to restrict almost any "economic activity," so long as it has a "substantial effect" on interstate trade. And [in Raich] "economic activity" is defined very broadly to include anything that involves the "production, distribution, and consumption of commodities." That definition allowed the Court to use the Commerce Clause to uphold a federal ban on the possession of marijuana that had never crossed state lines or been sold in any market (even an intrastate one). Nearly all abortions involve the "consumption" and "distribution" of commodities, such as medical supplies. In addition, most abortions qualify as "economic" transactions because doctors, nurses, and others are paid to perform them.
One could argue that a federal law banning or severely restricting abortions isn't "really" aimed at regulating interstate commerce. The true motive would be to restrict abortion regardless of whether it involved interstate transactions or not. But much the same can be said for the marijuana ban upheld in Raich, and other federal laws enforcing the War on Drugs. They go far beyond targeting actual interstate trade in drugs, and instead forbid even in-state distribution and possession of illegal narcotics.
If, as is likely, the interstate abortion market expands in the wake of a Supreme Court decision overruling Roe, Congress could claim that suppression of intrastate abortions is necessary in order to enforce restrictions on those that involve crossing state lines. If abortion is banned in State A, but legal in neighboring State B, that creates an incentive for residents of A to cross into B in order to get abortions - even if the feds enact a ban on such crossing. That ban might be more effectively enforced if abortion were illegal in B as well as A…..
The Commerce Clause rationale for abortion restrictions might not apply to abortions that are performed on a noncommercial basis by staff who provide their services for free. But such cases are only a small percentage of the total. Moreover, in Raich, the Court upheld the ban on Angel Raich's possession of marijuana even though the producers had in fact provided it to her for free. The theory was that even such completely noncommercial production and distribution of an illegal drug could impact the interstate market.
These kinds of Commerce Clause arguments may strike some readers as the kind of sophistry that gives lawyers a bad name. I sympathize with that reaction! I hate these arguments myself, and have long argued that Raich is a terrible decision that should be overruled. But this is exactly the sort of reasoning that prevailed in Raich, and provides a constitutional rationale for much of the federal War on Drugs.
However, Raich has been much criticized by conservative and libertarian legal commentators, and is especially abhorred by Justice Clarence Thomas. He has also suggested, in a 2007 concurring opinion, that federal abortion restrictions may be beyond the scope of congressional power under the Commerce Clause. It is possible that one or more other conservative justices agree with him on this. A federal abortion ban could, therefore, be struck down by a coalition of conservative justices who oppose it on federalism grounds, and liberal ones who believe it violates constitutional individual rights. I outlined this scenario here:
In Gonzales v. Carhart (2007), the Supreme Court upheld a federal restriction on late-term "partial birth" against individual rights challenges. Justice Clarence Thomas wrote a concurring opinion emphasizing the possibility that the law in question exceeds the scope of congressional power under the Commerce Clause. Thomas previously wrote a forceful dissent in Gonzales v. Raich…. [In 2021], he reiterated key elements of his critique of that decision, and urged the Supreme Court to reconsider… it….
It's possible that one or more other conservative justices could join Thomas's reasoning.
One can then envision federal abortion restrictions getting invalidated by a coalition of conservative justices who believe they are beyond the power of the federal government, and liberal justices who object on individual-rights grounds. It is also possible (though less likely) that some liberal jurists could endorse the federalism argument against these restrictions. Liberal thinking on constitutional federalism shifted a good deal in recent years, and some of that shift may go beyond "fair weather federalism" brought on by opposition to Trump's policies. It's also possible that either liberal or conservative judges will think of clever ways to limit the scope of Raich, even if it doesn't get overruled completely.
Cynics may say that Thomas isn't really sincere in his opposition to Raich or his doubts about the constitutionality of federal abortion restrictions. I cannot know his true feelings for sure. But, as a general rule, Thomas is known for being a man who says what he means and means what he says. He even often gets criticized for his apparent reluctance to compromise with other justices or respect their sensibilities. I also see little motive for him to express the above views if he doesn't really mean them. It's unlikely Thomas was trying to curry favor with liberals. If he truly valued such favor, he would say and do a lot of things differently.
Thus, if Congress does enact federal abortion restrictions, abortion rights advocates may well have a good chance of stopping them by relying on federalism arguments. In order to make the most of that opportunity, they would need to explicitly make that case and - ideally - ask the Court to overrule or severely limit Raich.
Attacking Raich and other ultra-broad Commerce Clause precedents may go against the grain for some left-of-center abortions rights advocates. But immigration advocates have made a similar shift in sanctuary cities cases (with great success), and the pro-choice legal community could follow their example. For some pro-choicers - myself very much included! - the possibility that reducing Commerce Clause authority would weaken the War on Drugs would be a feature, not a bug.
In addition to using the Commerce Clause, federal abortion restrictions could also be enacted using Congress' spending power. I go through some of the details here:
In addition to trying to directly regulate abortion by using its Commerce Clause powers, Congress could also try to do so indirectly by using its Spending Clause power to condition grants to state governments. For example, it could enact legislation restricting various types of health care grants to state governments unless the latter ban or severely restrict abortion. These kinds of conditional spending restrictions are subject to a number of constraints under current Supreme Court precedent. The amount of money involved cannot be so large as to be "coercive"; the conditions must be sufficiently related to the purpose of the grant; and they have to be clearly stated on the face of the law - not just inferred by the executive branch. The Trump administration ran afoul of all three of these restrictions during its campaign to cut federal funds to "sanctuary cities…."
Much depends on the exact scope and wording of the legislation at issue. Nonetheless, I think a carefully drafted conditional-spending restriction on abortion rights could potentially jump through these hoops. Then, blue states would face a choice of either losing some of their federal health care grants or imposing abortion restrictions.
The Spending Clause approach is less threatening to abortion rights because states could…. avoid the conditions by refusing the federal funds tied to them. In practice, such refusals of federal funds are very rare. But a hot-button ideological issue like abortion might prove an exception to that rule.
I would add that the requirements of relatedness and noncoercion set a ceiling to the amount of pressure Congress could bring to bear in this way. It couldn't deny affected states all or most federal health care funding (that is precluded by NFIB v. Sebelius, which struck down as coercive a provision of the Affordable Care Act that would deny all Medicaid funds to states that refuse to expand Medicaid), and it cannot deny funds with little or no connection to abortion.
Some conservatives have argued that a federal law banning abortion might be authorized by Section 5 of the 14th Amendment, rather than the Commerce or Spending Clauses. But that would be a radical departure not only from current Supreme Court precedent, but also from traditional conservative originalist approaches to the Fourteenth Amendment. Co-blogger Jonathan Adler explained why here.
Obviously, the above constraints on federal laws banning abortion would also apply to federal laws seeking to protect it against the states. In the wake of a decision overruling Roe, conservatives and liberals alike may need to decide whether they care more about preserving the autonomy of "their" states, or about retaining the power to control the other side's states when their preferred party is in power in Washington. In both cases, however, even if some would prefer to preserve maximal federal power, there may well be others willing to file federalism-based lawsuits, regardless of what their ideological comrades think.
Finally, I should note the scenarios discussed above may not come to pass, because political obstacles may prevent Congress from enacting any significant new abortion legislation, whether pro-life or pro-choice. Doing so would likely require either a massive 60-vote Senate supermajority or the abolition or limitation of the filibuster. On the Republican side, federal abortion restrictions could be opposed by key moderate senators, such as Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski (both of whom are pro-choice).
But while the obstacles to such legislation are significant, they may not be insuperable. If you believe that abortion is murder, you might well be willing to set aside the filibuster to ban it. Ditto if you think it's a fundamental human right, and only federal legislation can ensure its protection. If Roe does indeed get overruled, time will tell if major new federal abortion legislation is politically feasible or not. If it turns out that it is, there is a good chance it might be successfully challenged on federalism grounds.
UPDATE: Back in 2015, co-blogger Jonathan Adler also wrote a post explaining why federal abortion restrictions exceed the scope of Congress' powers under the Commerce Clause. I think he's overly optimistic when it comes to current precedent. But the kinds of arguments he marshals are the sort that might well be accepted by Justice Thomas and others if the issue were to come before the Supreme Court.
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Assuming anything at all could get through the Senate, why would you assume that a nationwide abortion rights law isn't at least as likely?
Exactly.
Because once the matter gets sorted out at the state level the federal legislators would have incentive to leave it there.
Yes, I think the end result will be no federal law one way or the other. At least until 2024.
IDK. The long-term trend is for all decision-making power to flow toward DC. It's hard to envision the opposite happening wrt any subject.
Hopefully that pendulum has started it's return swing.
If there is no federal action for, say, 5 years, then you are going to have a situation where abortion will be legal in a large number of states, and people in other states will not have such a hard time getting it merely by travelling a bit. So they may realize that there is no practical need for a nationwide protection.
"..."and people in other states will not have such a hard time getting it merely by travelling a bit."
It's cute that your delusional worldview can claim such a thing with complete disregard for the financial status of everyone who isn't yourself.
Maybe you should point that out to Democrats who think buying an electric car is the answer to high gas prices?
Abortions are more expensive than the travel that might be required (and there's no reason to think that travel is harder to subsidize for poor patients).
The vast majority of people can afford interstate travel. For the few who cannot, Planned Parenthood can set up a fund to bus them there.
Again, your callous disregard for anyone who isn't yourself exemplifies your utter lack of morality.
How far do you think people might have to travel? Should traveling for medical care have to rely on donations and handouts from a company which may or may not exist?
You have absolutely no concept of what it means to actually be poor, and you're too much of a fuckhead to care that you don't.
Once again, fictitious ideas to impose the feelings of the lawyer dipshits at the Supreme Court on the nation. What about abortion is interstate? What about it is commerce?
The surgical tools used to perform it almost certainly came from out of state.
On that theory, there is nothing under the sun that is not subject to federal regulation under the Commerce Clause.
There probably isn’t.
Bored is right. Money pays for abortion. Insurance is interstate. The Indian GYN got training in other states or coutnries and traveled to provide the service. The sheets and the scrubs came from China. But that limitless jurisdiction makes the idea ridiculous.
The Supreme Court held that a pond was not connected to US waterways and thus not subject to US Corps of Engineer rules. An argument can be made all the water in that pond had been around the world many times, including in US waterways. The Supreme Court disagreed with such limitless jurisdiction. This is similar.
With enough sophistry there isn't.
Now do the reverse -- Biden said Congress should pass a nationwide abortion rights law. Constitutional?
(1) Under Boerne v. City of Flores, Congress lacks the power to ratchet up rights under the 14th Amendment.
(2) Commerce clause arguably would be a basis. One might argue that any abortion that has any connection to interstate commerce (which, if you take the broadest view, is virtually any abortion) is subject to the Commerce Clause power. Any precedent for Congress saying that a state cannot interfere with such a transaction?
"Many Republicans have been advocating nationwide bans on abortion, including very sweeping ones that would forbid all abortions more than six weeks into a pregnancy. "
No. Just stop pushing that lie, popular as it is with pro-choicers.
What's been advocated are nation-wide bans on elective abortion.
Now, I don't think that would be constitutional under any reasonable reading of the Constitution, (Not that we've been in reasonable reading territory for decades.) any more than a nation-wide law mandating elective abortions be legal.
And I won't go so far as to say nobody anywhere is proposing a ban without exceptions for the life of the mother, the proposal you couldn't find SOME idiot somewhere backing is basically non-existent.
But every "abortion ban" I've seen seriously proposed has, barring a stupid drafting error, permitted abortion to save the life of the mother.
They already got rid of rape and incest exceptions. They're going to leave it up to prosecutors to decide if abortions were medically necessary to save a life. You're going to have murder trials about this. Defense attorneys know their practice is about to change substantially.
Oh, that's just for starters.
We're already getting prosecutors panty-sniffing miscarriages in Texas. And given the financial incentives, I suspect there are wannabe-professional period trackers there. High school teachers are well-placed to make that a nice side-hustle.
And anyway, Somin's the entire premise is refuted by the very act he's reacting to. Precedent only matters to the Republican Supreme Court if it serves FedSoc goals.
"They're going to leave it up to prosecutors to decide if abortions were medically necessary to save a life."
Same as any self defense case. The law doesn't take your word for killing in self defense being necessary, and any chance of outsourcing that decision to random abortionists died when they decided it was cute to declare abortions 'medically necessary' because being upset at giving live birth was a 'mental health' issue.
it was cute to declare abortions 'medically necessary' because being upset at giving live birth was a 'mental health' issue.
First of all, for these scare quotes, fuck you. You have absolutely ZERO idea about the strain of pregnancy on a woman's mental health. Do you know what post-partum depression is? Don't you think being forced to give birth t your attackers baby is going to result in severe trauma, especially if there is a pregnancy complication?!?
But aside from that sociopathic dogshit, don't you think that its messed up to put people in prison for trying to save their own lives at the advice of their doctors? Wouldn't it make you uncomfortable to put someone on trial for that?
I want you to do me a favor. Go to a mirror. Imagine you are a police officer. Look yourself dead in the eye, and out loud, so people can hear you, practice the speech you would give to a 14 year old rape victim that you didn't think their abortion was medically necessary, despite what their doctor said, and that you're going to put them away for the rest of their life for murder. How does that make you feel?
LTG,
Should you be able to kill your child if having the child around depresses you?
No. Because that’s not what we’re talking about. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. So stop with this bullshit because you know deep down you don’t actually believe it.
No, that's exactly what we're talking about.
No. That’s what you tell yourself you’re talking about, but you’re lying, both to
yourself and everyone else. Because you don’t actually care about kids. You would shoot a child in the back if he stole from you. You’re proud to admit that. You’ve done it before. You support bullying LGBTQ youth to suicide. You don’t shed a tear and make weak excuses to wave off school shootings as just the price of freedom. There ain’t a child on earth that you wouldn’t kill if it meant you got to keep your guns, wealth, and place on the social hierarchy. You’re bad people and it isn’t even a close question.
Fuckin' a Law. That my sisters have to carry a baby from their rapists just so these guys can ;'own the libs' and feel vindicated...uh, no
No, just because the kid is innocent, and having been victimized doesn't entitle you to murder an innocent.
It's not a kid, and it isn't murder.
Let's not pretend that you even give a shit Brett. As long as women have to do what you want, you don't care what happens to either them, or the fetus they're forced to carry to term.
I mean, if you're throwing around absurd situations, and bullshit, don't be surprised if it comes back your way.
But while we're on it, how do you feel about infants being born alive, and then abandoned to die because their mothers didn't want them?
https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/abortion/congress-delivers-born-alive-infants-protection-act
It’s not absurd: you just don’t want to believe it! Because it’s uncomfortable. Acknowledging it means you’re acknowledging your position isn’t only wrong it’s gravely immoral. You’re supporting the continued victimization of humans, people who are children themselves! Of course you can’t admit that, but it’s true.
And mothers who abandon their kids should be prosecuted. But I’ll note that if conservatives didn’t hate social welfare more than they pretend to like families maybe that would be less of a problem.
You are talking about what my sisters need to rationalize with after they are raped you evil son-of-a-bitch. My sisters who are raped are not Mothers, they are victims
Stop raping your sisters.
You're a disgrace to the Marine Corps. I suspect your discharge paperwork indicates as much as well.
It's as absurd as driving a nail through the head of an unborn child during the birth process. Which also happens. Or a newborn child being born alive during a botched abortion and just allowed to die in a basket without any medical care. Which also happens.
The fact is, abortion is a complicated topic, with a variety of opinions, that differ pretty dramatically, and have a regional bias. But throwing out absurd, extreme accusations like you're doing doesn't help anyone or anything about the conversation.
Perhaps you should tone your language and accusations down. Or you can continue to yell like a proverbial extremist.
You’re the one without nuance here dude. You’re Making up fake things about nails in heads. I’m talking about real things that happen to real people that you’re apparently okay with. You sound like someone who has never met a pregnant woman the way you talk about things. Or if you have, you certainly never listened to one.
Rape and incest are real things.
Pregnancy complications are real.
Post-partum depression is real.
Fourth degree tears and other major pregnancy complications are real.
Eclampsia is real.
Ectopic pregnancies are real.
Badly written laws issued by people who don’t understand human reproduction are real.
Vague laws are real.
Overzealous prosecutors are real.
I see you've chosen choice B...extremism.
Once again. Abortion is a complicated topic, with extreme examples on both ends. Understanding that is key. Understanding that both sides have valid points and opinions is also key.
But continuing to rant on one side, while pointedly ignoring any of the abuses on the other side and calling them "fake things".... It shows you're not serious. It only shows your extremism.
Wtf are you talking about? How is listing real things that happen in the world extremism? Do you doubt these things exist?
You are insisting there is no distinction to make between a fetus and a child.
As LTG noted, you can believe there is no moral distinction between the two (which is radical even in pro life circles) but insisting everyone else must act like that as well is not a good debating tactic - it just makes you look like you're trying to bully a discussion you think you can't win otherwise.
This^^^
Brett, maybe an armed person facing down a bad guy with a knife is going to shoot and take her chances with a homicide prosecution and a self-defense claim.
A doctor or hospital is not going to go through that.
Republicans have not been shy about their desire for national abortion bans. And the exception for the life of the mother is very weak. Many doctors and hospitals will delay medically necessary abortions because they fear running afoul of the law. This is well documents. And Catholic hospitals have formal policy requiring committee approval for medically necessary abortions, which leads to delays and harm to the women.
All this is about to get way worse.
If you don't believe Republican justices such as Clarence Thomas would approve a national abortion ban, Prof. Somin, that's the level of naivete that enables you to associate with these authoritarian right-wingers.
Read Thomas' dissent in Raich v. Gonzales.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/545/1/#tab-opinion-1961868
Marijuana use is hardly popular among right-wingers, yet he would have struck down that law as beyond Congress' Commerce Clause power.
That's marijuana. Not really the same as "all abortion is murder."
Agreed it's not the same thing. Abortion is a far more intense and charged issue than marijuana.
But the notion that Thomas is just a knee-jerk authoritarian right winger, who will just reach that result no matter what, is disproven by that dissent. What he might decide in an abortion case remains to be seen.
I too doubt that Thomas would reject a national ban.
Marijuana has not been a central, highly emotional, issue to the right for the past fifty years.
Thomas doesn’t even need the commerce clause to do it. Just needs a concurring opinion citing to whatever bullshit conservative law professors come up with about how the fourteenth amendment as originally understood protected unborn children and that Flores doesn’t apply because reasons.
the fourteenth amendment as originally understood
The standard RW phrase is "properly understood," which Buckley often deployed. As soon as I see that I know I'm in for some tendentious nonsense. Alito uses it in the leaked draft.
" The standard RW phrase is "properly understood," "
I think that's a clinger signaling 'Jesus spoke directly to me, touched my heart, and blessed me with a calling.'
Something like this.
Or this.
Justice Thomas's offhand observation in his Gonzales v Carhart concurrence that no Commerce Clause issue was before the Court is meaningless. He joined in upholding the statute, notwithstanding that abortion "in or affecting interstate commerce" is an essential element thereof.
When the rubber meets the road, Thomas is solidly on Eric Rudolph's side of the culture war.
Another Culture War Victory!!
I think its as reasonable a compromise as we can expect to leave it up to the states to determine what they wish to do. The most odious part of Roe v Wade to me has always been how it forced opponents to subsidize and accommodate abortionists more than the act itself. Unfortunately I don't think progs will ever be satisfied not being able to force their life choices on others.
"I don't think progs will ever be satisfied not being able to force their life choices on others."
Republican legislators want to use the force of law to force minor rape victims to give birth to their attackers kids.
Do you deserve to be killed for the crimes of your father? Its not as black and white as your strawman.
It’s not a straw man, dumbass. The new laws lack rape and incest exceptions.
What would you say to the family of a 14 year old rape victim who committed suicide after being forced to give birth to her attackers, baby due to severe post-partum depression.
LawTalkingGuy : "The new laws lack rape and incest exceptions"
Of course rape & incest exceptions used to be commonly held even among America's homegrown Taliban. After all, it's grotesquely monstrous not to offer them. But then people noticed abortion was "murder" only when there was some harlot or hussy to punish for having nonreproductive sex. So our Taliban decided grotesque & monstrous was just the price to pay for "consistency".
Not a price they paid, mind you. Our Taliban is perfectly happy to wreck and blight the lives of thousands upon thousands of women each year without paying any price at all themselves. That's the secret of the abortion issue, you see: Wanton sluts vs cherubic proto-babies is the easiest and most cost-free consumer-friendly buzz of righteousness available in the marketplace today. There's no cost whatsoever (to them).
I think there are valid points made for legal exceptions but you're pretty much going off topic now. If it bothers you that much you'll be happy to know that the ruling does not ban anything. Volunteer to drive these alleged billions of minor rape victims to get all the abortions they want. You can even ask all those rich hollywood celebrities and sillycon valley moguls to pitch you a stipend for your troubles since private funding abortion seems to be the rage now.
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.
https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2021/10/26-states-are-certain-or-likely-ban-abortion-without-roe-heres-which-ones-and-why
While you might be technically correct if you were trying to be pedantic, I think the more likely answer is that you really have no clue as to the consequences of this ruling which will literally take effect the moment the ruling becomes official.
"Not born" is vastly different than "killed."
How long do you want to victimize the woman? That's a rhetorical question, because as far as I can tell, folks who are against abortions seem to make punishing the woman and taking away her bodily autonomy the entire point.
You don't want to just make sure she's a victim once - you want to make sure it lasts as long as possible and make her, her family and her insurance continue to suffer until you get what you want.
And as we all know, as soon as the pregnancy is over, you don't care one iota what happens to either of them. Adoption, orphanage, life-long complications from the pregnancy or childbirth...none of that means a goddamn thing to any of you.
Just as long as the woman has to do with her body what you demand.
Always remember that the politicians who hate abortion the most also hate subsidized school lunches (indeed McConnell is blocking action on that right now). They’ll never ever endorse a cost effective policy to improve health outcomes in children and reduce family
suffering in the here and now.
Theres nothing preventing you (if you're a pregnant woman) from getting an abortion for a good reason or otherwise currently or in the foreseeable future in the US.... And if there is its something that has little to nothing to do with whether Alito's ruling is correct. You want an abortion. Go ahead and get it. Get 10 or a 100 abortions if you want. What are you waiting for? My permission?
You didn't read the decision, did you? Nor do you seem to have read any about the laws that are now going to go into force across the nation.
You don't seem to have spent a lot of time aligning your conclusions in this comment with reality, in fact.
I love how quickly the Left has rediscovered what a woman was. As if overnight they all magically became biologists!
The bigger concern is they amend the Mann act to make transporting women across state lines for an abortion illegal.
*birthing people
> And "economic activity" is defined very broadly to include anything that involves the "production, distribution, and consumption of commodities."
It's worth remembering that Gonzales v. Raich was specifically directed at "medical" marijuana i.e., a pharmaceutical product. Theoretically something that's less fungible (e.g., personalized medical services) might be distinguishable. OTOH, the dicta in Gonzales doesn't help.
side note: It always baffles me why the potheads decided to lead with *this* case, particularly after Lopez. The potheads should have found some grandmother who was only growing it to 'stabilize a hillside' or what-not i.e., something clearly not commercial. But, I guess they're potheads, so...
If the Justices are really savvy, they'll add a statement in the final opinion stating that Congress has no authority under the Constitution to regulate abortion either way, ending the federal question completely. This might be hard to justify given the case in front of them but it would probably be the best option.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obiter_dictum
On the Section 5 stuff, what about the other way around. It seems that codifying Roe would be “appropriate” “to enforce” the equal protection clause.
Good luck getting that past the GOP Supreme Court.
I mean, that's pretty squarely foreclosed by precedent. City of Boerne says that Congress can't use its enforcement power to expand the substantive rights that are protected. If there's no underlying constitutional right to abortion, then Congress isn't "enforcing" the 14th amendment by codifying Roe. If the federal government is going to do that, it's going to have to rely on the commerce clause.
(If you're implying that there could be a right to abortion rooted in the EP clause rather than the DP clause… let's just say there's pretty much zero change of that argument being accepted.)
I don't see a compelling interest. Why not let the people of the several states make their own laws, even if not uniform?
This business of elevating issues to "a fundamental right" is pure emotionalism.
Interracial marriage?
Why can't communities decide for themselves which romantic configurations they want to license, tax, encourage, or ignore?
Why do you want the government regulating religious ceremonies in the first place? I didn't peg you as a budding theocrat.
Marriage has always been tied up with governmental recognition, legitimacy, and benefits.
That argument was old and busted before the gay marriage debate reignited in 2010 or so.
"Marriage has always been tied up with governmental recognition, legitimacy, and benefits."
Marriage predates licenses & benefits.
How about you explain why a religious ceremony needs "governmental recognition, legitimacy, and benefits." Remember, marriage licenses were created in the 1800s to prohibit interracial marriage & property transfer.
"Was old and busted", huh? Busted, how? What non-strawman arguments are there for the government to recognize and regulate certain specific religious ceremonies - but on those varieties belonging to approved religions?
Please, show your work.
And while you are at it, explain how marriage has "always" been tied up with things that didn't involve the government until the modern era.
You actually do have a 14th amendment. I'm never going to stop reminding you that you can't properly analogize abortion to rights that actually are in the Constitution.
14A doesn't say anything about marriage. I'm going to continue to point out how you pick and choose your textualism to align with your desired policy outcomes.
It says something about Privileges and Immunities, and thus about marriage by reference.
by reference is doing a LOT of lifting there. To the point you get to decide what's a right and what's not by just invoking it and ipse dixit.
Which, again, makes you claiming to be any kind of formalist or textualist a laugh.
Plus, of course, Loving didn't rely on P&I so your whole argument is axiomatically wrong. I thought you didn't like such lies?
Yeah, I know that Loving didn't rely on P&I. It should have! Right after the 14th amendment was ratified interracial marriage was legalized in multiple states, and laws against it struck down in others, exactly on the basis of P&I, until the Supreme court wrongly put a stop to it.
The cases where the Supreme court put an end to Reconstruction and gutted the 14th amendment should have been overturned, not worked around.
So to you, Loving is a bad precedent, functional benefits bedamned.
And, again, slave state governments reacting to reconstruction did not have special insight into how the 14A was intended.
But it does say something about Equal Protection. The miscegenation laws as they were enacted in the South were clearly directed to keeping black blood from polluting whites (as they saw it). Which is why someone who was half-black and half white, or even had one drop of white blood, could not marry a white person, whereas a mulatto could marry a black. That is a blatant Equal Protection violation.
The Loving court took note of this:
That is reason enough to strike down such a law, without even getting into whether marriage is a fundamental right.
Not to mention that separate but equal violates the Constitution as per Brown v. Board of Education, or, better reasoned IMO, the dissent of the first Justice Harlan in Plessy v. Ferguson.
Actually, my argument was part of the Court's holding:
So even under Loving, Equal Protection, which is explicit in the 14th Amendment, suffices to strike down anti-miscegenation laws.
Loving relied on a fundamental rights analysis, which was required to reach an EPC analysis.
That would not be necessary today. Racial classifications (at least where blacks in particular are being targeted) will trigger strict scrutiny regardless of the "fundamentality" of the right at issue.
I see you are back to ignoring the text of the case, even where I quote it at length. Here is the link:
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/388/1/#tab-opinion-1946731
The Court clearly says there are two independent reasons to invalidate the law: Equal Protection and Due Process. It could have invalidated the law based just on EP. Whatever you think the Court "relied" on, the holding is very clear.
I just do not see an appetite in the Senate to enact a nationwide anything right now. Let's see the decision, first.
You will see it soon enough.
Are these right-wing commenters genuinely too stupid to see it (Republican push for a national abortion ban, because Jesus trumps all manmade considerations) coming, or are they lying?
There is ample evidence for both conclusions.
Past case law or constitutional arguments are irrelevant in the era of Constitutional Calvinball. Of course the Republican SCOTUS would uphold a national abortion ban.
Just like how courts upheld the federal assault weapons ban?
Since we seem to be in the process of de-emphasizing stare decisis this sounds like yet one more reason to toss out Wickard v Filburn.
As much as I don't care for Wickard case, it at least involves traditional economic reliance interests vs. something handwavy like "the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life."
Well any idiot knows the answer to that is 42!
That’s probably the long game here, wait until after the 2024 elections and a GOP house and a filibuster proof GOP senate passes a nationwide abortion ban, then the Supreme Court stikes down Wickard v Filburn as in order to invalidate the nationwide abortion ban.
A liberatarian wet dream.
I personally think the line of precedent is wrong. But if Congress can prohibit simple posession of a gun which previously passed in interstste commerce, or use of such a gun in some otherwise intrastate violent crime, it seems hard to see how it can’t ban use of a knife which previously passed in interstate commerce for some analogous particular purpose, such as performing an abortion. Abortion affects interstate commerce in knives because they cause people to use, and hence to possess, and hence to buy, knives manufactured in other states and crossing state lines.
It’s an obscenely expansive interpretation of interstate commerce. It’s rediculous. But it seems to me that current precedent allows for such results. You would have to restrain the commerce clause to less rediculous levels for such a ban to not be permitted.
That said, Congress could do many within within a more rational scope to its powers. It could easily ban abortion-specific drugs within its existing power to ban drugs. It could things like ban transportation across state lines for purposes of obtaining an abortion under very old pre-New Deal precedent.
SCOTUS upheld 18 U.S.C. 1531, which includes as an element of the offense that the prohibited abortion be ¨in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce,¨ without any other nexus to Congressional powers.
Not against a Tenth Amendment challenge.
You all are getting way too deep into Rube Goldberg arguments for the commerce clause.
Just stick with it affects the number of people, which affects interstate commerce.
I think it’s politically very unlikely Congress will pass either a nationwide ban or a nationwide legalization, although both will doubtless be attempted.
They have to kill the legislative filibuster first and neither party is currently prepared to do so.
Fund raising votes, on both sides.
There aren't the numbers in the Senate now, and there are unlikely to be enough either way after the midterms.
"Area law professor thinks that right-wing justices will behave in principled manner"
Yeah.
It's amazing what these guys think.
People who don't think are often amazed by those who do.
The rigour of the pro-choice movements position is shown by the fact that in the 49-ish years since Roe was passed, no attempt to get a Constitutional amendment has occurred....
If it was so damned important, and so 'obviously' right, why not?
Did the 2nd Amendment obviate gun control laws?
A little quibble here: “since Roe was passed”, Roe of course was never passed, it was imposed by the Supreme Court in one of the most incoherent opinions ever written. As if a supposed constitutional right could be metered by trimester.
Eh, I'd argue that, since they pulled it out of their fecal orifice, it did "pass" in a sense.
I'm not clear on the gotcha here. If one thinks the constitution already protects the right to abortion, and the courts agree, why would one waste time and money on an obviously futile gesture that wouldn't have any real world effect?
I don't remember the citation, but I was surprised you didn't mention the opinion in the Violence Against Women Act case where part of it was held unconstitutional on Commerce Clause grounds. It is, as I remember a reasonably old case.
Would a Congressional ban on abortion exempt prosecution of a pregnant woman who procured her own abortion? Would it provide a lesser penalty for an abortion provider than is applicable to premeditated murder generally?
If so, spare me the blather about abortion being murder.
*birthing person
Wow, so clever you had to drop it twice! Can you make it to ten in this thread?? I bet you can!
It really is incredible how all it took was one leaked decision, and suddenly every Democrat out there became a biologist. Something entirely worthy of at least a few days worth of mockery.
Perhaps Justice Thomas might gain a few votes if he expands his definition of commerce a teeny-tiny bit? This paper seems to challenge the traditional Barnett-Thomas definitions of commerce without going all the way into freewheeling "substantial effects" tests, from an originalist perspective:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4077344
People are always helpfully greasing slopes, and encouraging careful folks to venture out onto them.
Congress could requite abortionists to pay a special tax, a tax that can only be paid if they register for a special account with the Treasury Department, and then refuse to accept registrations from abortionists, resulting in a de facto ban.
If you doubt me, look up the Hughes Amendment.
For longer than I have been alive, the Supremes have held that a clause meant to enable Congress to prevent states from trading with foreign states in violation of federal statutes or from erecting barriers to trade against other states has meant a host of things never contemplated by the founders of our republic and entirely at odds with the plain language of the Constitution. It is long past time to restore the intent of the commerce clause to the narrow scope the framers of the Constitution granted Congress, and for the courts to put their egos back in the box.
Every time a state prosecution for murder fails, and you shout for a federal one for denial of constitutional rights, you also justify national abortion bans.
But hey, it's this week, so the eternal flip flop of situational ethics gets a good workout by both sides.
Who exactly is 'you' here?
I'm wondering that myself. I don't think the federal government SHOULD be able to prosecute anybody for murder, unless it takes place someplace like DC or a military base, where the states don't have jurisdiction to prosecute.
There has to be a federal interest.
Murder committed to cover up the crime of posting kiddie porn on the Internet would fall under federal jurisdiction as well as state jurisdiction.
I think the idea of Congress stepping in to guarantee abortion access is unlikely to succeed. But what if Congress went a little less direct and passed a bill that said that medical services not provided in a state can be obtained through telemedicine. This would mean that women in a non-abortion state could access reproductive services provided by medical providers in another state. This could include prescriptions for birth control, medical abortions, and referral for surgical abortion care provided in another state.
You still have the problem that a surgeon in the state the woman lived in couldn’t perform an abortion on her, if it was illegal in her state. And right now, if this draft decision becomes law, there is nothing preventing abortion tourism.
We have also seen with COVID-19 prophylactics and therapeutics, such as Ivermectin, that having a prescription doesn’t buy you a thing, if the dispensing of those prescriptions is heavily controlled by the state.
As I suggest, if a surgical abortion was necessary, telemedicine could assist in the process but a referral and providing the surgeon with preliminary information to facilitate the procedure.
People get prescription filled through the mail all the time. Allowing telemedicine also means allow those prescription to be filled, even if mailed from another state.
It was a first draft of a SCOTUS opinion, and included dissenting arguments. Anyone commenting here ever compare the first draft of a SCOTUS opinion to the final opinion actually rendered?
Look up Rachel Treisman, "What even is a draft opinion? Here's how the Supreme Court's process works", NPR, 3 May 2022.
".... There's always a chance that the draft opinion doesn't end up looking similar to the final opinion, NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg told Morning Edition ...."
Anyone commenting here ever compare the first draft of a SCOTUS opinion to the final opinion actually rendered?
I'd be surprised if anyone could. When was the last time a 3 month out of date draft was leaked? The 1800s?
From the other thread, meant to post here:
I can't speak for other "conservatives" or what judges would do, but I have no problem with the federal government having no right to regulate abortion. It seems probably right as a matter of original constitutional meaning as well. Of course under current precedent they have ample power to do so. Not just under the commerce clause, but probably under the equal protection clause and the privileges or immunities clause as well.
Did the federal government originally have the power to enact criminal laws for crimes such as murder (other than piracy and felonies on the high seas, counterfeiting and treason)?
We're coming after you, baby-killer!
Such a good article until you hit this line:
"If you believe that abortion is murder, you might well be willing to set aside the filibuster to ban it."
We're talking about politicians here. They'll pass a law legalizing murdering anyone if it'll get them votes. This is where people have lawmakers wrong. They're there for power and money. They get there with votes and money. Everything they do they do for votes and money.
You completely missed the joke that the supreme court has become. They are charlatans who say only they can read the tea leaves and then say the constitution says what they want it to say. Legality is forfeit. The supreme court is a completely political organization now. As such, an appropriately political response is warranted and term limits need to be implemented ASAP.