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Every Cop Involved in the Arrest of This Utah Nurse for Refusing to (Illegally) Draw a Patient’s Blood Needs to Be Fired (UPDATED)

The Supreme Court decision forbidding unwarranted blood collection is a year old.

Shall we ease into our Labor Day weekend with an absolutely repulsive video of a police detective abusing his authority against a completely innocent person for no real justifiable reason? Oh, why not?

Behold, Salt Lake City Police Det. Jeff Payne arresting Nurse Alex Wubbels in July for refusing to violate an unconscious—comatose, actually—man's rights by drawing his blood for the police without any sort of warrant whatsoever:

What Payne did here is patently, inescapably wrong in just about every possible way. Just one year ago the Supreme Court ruled that police must get a warrant or consent in order to draw a person's blood. It's utterly inconceivable that Payne, who is a trained phlebotomist with the police, did not know this. According to coverage from the Salt Lake Tribune, Payne acknowledged that he didn't have probable cause to get a warrant, but nevertheless insisted he had the authority to demand Wubbels draw blood.

But Payne did not have the authority to demand the blood draw and Wubbels was not "interfering" with a police investigation as they insisted at the time. Unsurprisingly, she was released later at the hospital and was not charged with any crime.

In fact, the claim that this blood draw was part of an "investigation" at all adds another layer of revulsion to Payne's behavior. The unconscious man Payne wanted blood from was not suspected of any crime and had done nothing wrong. He was, in fact, a victim of a crime.

The patient, William Gray of Idaho, was driving a semi truck in Northern Utah when he was struck head-on by a man who veered into oncoming traffic on a highway in Wellsville on July 27. That driver, who died in the crash, was fleeing from the police in a high-speed chase. Utah Highway Patrol officers were responding to calls about an erratic driver, and the man, Marco Torres, 26, led police on a chase rather than get pulled over and detained.

So Gray's terrible injuries were a consequence of a police chase that he had absolutely nothing to do with. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. According to the coverage of the arrest, Payne said that he wanted to draw blood from Gray to check for drugs in order to "protect" him in some fashion, not to punish him, and that he was ordered to go collect his blood by police in Logan. It is not made clear in any coverage what exactly the police would protecting him from by drawing his blood without his consent while he was unconscious. Payne also said it was his watch commander, Lt. James Tracy, who told him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to draw blood.

Payne has been suspended from the police's blood draw program but remains on duty. He needs to be shown the door. It doesn't matter if he was just following orders, he should have known he didn't have the authority. For that matter, Wubbels herself was just following orders. She served the hospital, which had strict guidelines for drawing blood that the police were attempting to bully her into ignoring.

Tracy needs to be shown the door, too. We don't see Tracy in the video acting the way Payne did, but it's very clear from the Tribune's coverage that the lieutenant did also insist that he had the authority to force Wubbels to draw blood, even though he most assuredly did not.

In fact, here's a longer video from Deseret News that shows toward the end what appears to be Tracy being a condescending jerk to Wubbels while she's being detained, even though he's completely in the wrong:

SATURDAY MORNING UPDATE: The Salt Lake County District Attorney's Office has launched an independent criminal investigation of the incident. The mayor and police chief have apologized to Wubbels for her treatment. Payne and an unnamed officer have been placed on administrative leave during the investigation.

Photo Credit: Salt Lake City Police

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  • This Machine Chips Fascists||

    Comply or die!

  • SQRLSY One||

    Nurses are slaves to the power pigs!

  • Crusty Juggler||

    He just handcuffed her and threw her in the back of his car to punish her for disobeying his illegal order to draw blood from an unconscious, innocent man - what in the world is wrong with that?

    Also, way to step in and help her out, every other uniformed police officer who witnessed the arrest who will surely testify on the nurse's behalf.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    He just handcuffed her and threw her in the back of his car

    Hey, the Great Orange One gave them permission to do that! Why do you want coddle criminals, you commie America hater?

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Shrill and hyperbolic much?

  • rudehost||

    Thank God we have progressives actively trying to reign in government authority so this won't happen. Amirite?

  • buybuydandavis||

    Everything I don't like is Trump's fault!

  • Cardiologist||

    Actually the pumpkin president told the police to make sure to slam her head on the door sill.

  • BambiB||

    Nice try, asshole.

    This cop should spend time in prison for criminal battery and false arrest. Two years ought to be enough to get his attention. The rest of the cops on the scene should be fired and prevented from ever working in law enforcement again. The Nuremberg defense of "just following orders" is no better today than it was 70 years ago.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Two years for the assault and battery, and ten more for doing it under color of authority. Let that motherfucker have a nice long time to consider the error of his ways.

    -jcr

  • And you believe that why?||

    Don't forget about the time for the laundry list of other charges that DAs like to add.

    The trouble is that, during his time in jail, Officer Asshole will just learn new tricks of the criminal trade.

  • CMurph||

    Agreed. The DA should tack-on assault with a deadly weapon and kidnapping charges too, because cops are armed and these charges would be levied against we mundanes, who lack the benefit (double standard) of "qualified immunity." Until qualified immunity is repealed in law, cops will remain the worlds' largest and most violent, but sadly lawful, gang of thugs!

  • STSA||

    Really? You're blaming Trump for this? I don't blame the Not So Great Mulatto One every time something goes wrong.

  • DJ Allyn||

    I agree. As much as I loathe the Cheeto Jesus, this has absolutely nothing to do with this.

  • Sheriff Bart||

    My wife is a nurse, and if she was treated this way, I would already have a lawyer lined up.

    I think this guy is toast- you don't mess with medical personnel.

  • Dead inside||

    You think he or the department gives a fuck, The taxpayers will pay any and all settlements, he'll get more "training" and then be allowed to retire early to collect his pension and go about his life's work as the neighborhood dickhead.
    What The Actual Fuck!

  • Zeb||

    We need private prosecutions. That pig should be in prison for kidnapping.

  • Scarecrow Repair & Chippering||

    Besides victim prosecution, I would add warrant retribution. If you do something pursuant to a legal (appeals completed) warrant, and either lose the case or exceed the warrant's provisions, your victim gets to do the same to you. Most would settle for money in lieu of actual retribution, but sometimes victims would rather forgo the money for the satisfaction of surprising a jerk like this unannounced at some random time while he is on the job several months in the future, slam him around, draw his blood, and generally treat him like the thug he is.

    In the more real world, it would be nice to have him arrested and tried for kidnapping under color of authority.

    Either would reform cops in a flash. Within months, there'd be a lot fewer thug cops, a lot more "good" cops actually standing up to their thug brethren, and a much much better relationship with the community.

    Both are fantasies, so if I'm going to dream, I may as well dream big.

  • Hicks||

    Strip search him in front of his co-workers for about 25 minutes, for his own safety.
    We don't want any suicides.

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    I am all for private prosecutions. Privatize justice! How can there be any true justice if one organization has a monopoly on justice? It's like making a coach of one of the teams at the Superbowl the referee.

  • Jujucat||

    Yep ^

  • Jer Citti||

    Apparently she was detained briefly at the scene. Is that kidnapping?

  • GamerFromJump||

    If you move a person so much as an inch, or stop them from moving, without authority to do so, it's kidnapping.

  • WoodChipperBob||

    Actual lawyers should weigh in, but a plain language reading of this says it's unlawful detention:

    76-5-304. Unlawful detention and unlawful detention of a minor.
    (1) An actor commits unlawful detention if the actor intentionally or knowingly, without authority of law, and against the will of the victim, detains or restrains the victim under circumstances not constituting a violation of:
    (a) kidnapping, Section 76-5-301;
    (b) child kidnapping, Section 76-5-301.1; or
    (c) aggravated kidnapping, Section 76-5-302.

    But then, looking at (c), it seems to count as aggravated kidnapping, since he possessed a dangerous weapon:

    76-5-302. Aggravated kidnapping.
    (1) An actor commits aggravated kidnapping if the actor, in the course of committing unlawful detention or kidnapping:
    (a) possesses, uses, or threatens to use a dangerous weapon as defined in Section 76-1-601; or

  • Hicks||

    Wasn't this what put OJ in prison?
    Of course, OJ had a weapon, but so did this guy, and both were outside the bounds of law.

  • Hicks||

    Wasn't this what put OJ in prison?
    Of course, OJ had a weapon, but so did this guy, and both were outside the bounds of law.

  • Johnimo||

    She was removed from the scene (inside the hospital, probably the ER) forcibly handcuffed and placed in the officers patrol car.

  • Bill||

    How about conspiracy to commit kidnapping for the two of them?

  • CMurph||

    It would be kidnapping if you did it! Unless you happen to be a cop of course. Then you would be charged with kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, battery, and probably half a dozen other crimes. If you are a cop, then you'd enjoy the get out of jail free card called qualified immunity and be protected by double standards in law and justice. Being above the law, you'd avoid jail and prison time at the very least!

  • Hicks||

    That nurse has to provide her malpractice insurance to protect her if she gets bullied into becoming the states agent whenever they wish.

    We need to require malpractice insurance for those in law enforcement, and require it as condition of employment.
    Or not. If they want to self-insure using their home and retirement as collateral, that might work.

    If that cop had to worry about his premiums increasing to the point that it cut into his doughnut budget, I think he would think twice about pulling such a dick move.

    This is a place where the free market can go a long way towards solving this problem.

    BTW, what was the comment that the Chief hadn't really looked at the video until recently?

  • CMurph||

    >We need to require malpractice insurance for those in law enforcement, and require it as condition >of employment.

    No. We need to repeal "qualified immunity" protection laws and policies and revoke that double standard and benefit of employment. In other words, a condition of employment must be that cops are made to suffer the same consequences as the rest of us when they do not follow the law. We need to place violent cops on trial and cage them when they are found guilty, just as we do for mundanes (the rest of us).

  • GamerFromJump||

    Where's a little vigilantism when you need it?

  • Merl3noir||

    Actually the Police probably do give a fuck, and with the more recent updates it is clear they do. Unlike an ordinary citizen that the police have zero reason to treat with anything but utter contempt, she is a Nurse, and you can bet the Nurses union is already raising holy hell on her behalf, and rightly so. If the Nurses Union feels it has not gotten justice, it can make officers jobs in dealing with Nurses in the Future very difficult. While I am sure the Police will make sure it does not come to it, if it did I can easily image the frustration Police would feel as Nurses tell the Officers they have to wait for a Nurse to become available, and in the mean time, fill out this stack of paper work. I can also imagine how those frustrated officers might treat their fellow officers that resulted in such a situation coming about.

  • Hicks||

    Nurses don't need no stinking union, especially in cases like this.
    They can raise hell all by themselves.

    Of course, it would have been nice for the fucking security to have ceased playing with their tiny testicles for a moment, and provide security. Fucking wimps.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    He's not toast. He may get sanctioned, and then a year from now there'll be a small paragraph beneath the Arts and Letters section mentioning he got his job back with back pay.

  • buybuydandavis||

    One year paid vacation = screwed!

  • Hank Phillips||

    Why not? This is the same state where a looter cop shot Dillon Taylor in the back in Salt Lake City for walking down the sidewalk listening to the Audiobook of Mormon. That murder in blue evaded charges, got a paid vacation and by now has doubtless been awarded the Medal of Moroni for bravery. The whole murder is viewable on Youtube and was covered by Reason after the whack job prohibitionist candidate from Utah lost to Jack Johnson Obama in the first round.

  • JFree||

    Apparently the officer is a phlebotomist so he's pretty much screwed up any post-police career option as well

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    Any no count alley thug can draw other people's blood.

  • croaker||

    "I'm sorry, I can't start an IV in your arm. I have to use the big vein in you penis."

  • Elias Fakaname||

    ...........(Four failed attempts at putting the IV in the penis later)......."oopsie poo. This is more challenging than first thought. It seems to be getting even smaller......". (Cop shrieks like a little girl as attempt number five begins).

  • Rogers1234||

    That's an insult to little girls

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Touche.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    My sister is a nurse, so was mom. I'd have a lawyer lined up, too, but not for sis, for me.

    http://dullhawk.com/timesup.html

    Reminds me of a line Ed Harris said from The Rock when John C McGinley's character wouldn't comply. Along the lines of "I've asked you as a friend. I've ordered you as your commanding officer. Now I'm telling you as a man with a gun at your head ...."

  • ToCa81||

    Good analogy, but he delivered those lines to David Morse. McGinley was part of his crew too, though.

  • Duke of url||

    Seems like one of us would come up with a joke about the hospital's 'Payne' management policy, or lack thereof.

    Sure, this cretin deserves to be horse whipped, but what about the other 'heros' that stood by and watched this kidnapping?

    I'd like to think that there is a special place in hell for those douche nozzles that stood by and did nothing, but got paid to 'protect' the nurse while she was kidnapped.

    I just hope no other patients suffered, while this POS stroked himself thinking about the commendations he would get for protecting society from an innocent nurse.

    Officer Jeff will get immunity, and a paid vaycay, if anyone gets punished, it will be the taxpayers.

  • Widsith||

    Just in case he gets injured on the job, every hospital in the area should have a picture of him posted in the ER with instructions to refuse treatment if he's ever brought in.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    Unnecessary. First responders are supposed to be cogs in a well oiled machine, but this is going to make relations between the hospital and the blue shirts so dysfunctional that there's going to be a reckoning.

  • Agammamon||

    Yeah, except that they do, a lot. And they get away with it because usually no one has a camera to film the whole interaction.

  • cravinbob||

    Ever had handcuffs on? Been charged and were innocent? Civil remedy and a lawyer will not undo any of this which mentally affects one forever.
    Police have no logic- it is war on the people and damn their Rights, to hell with the law, "We are the law". Bastards.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Hmm, no chance the police were hoping that Gray's blood would test positive, and get them partly off the hook for the crash?

  • Ron||

    my thoughts as well. the police probably were supposed to pull back from a dangerous car chase but refused to do so, so now they are looking for excuses by blaming the truck driver and not their actions.

  • Cyto||

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing in response to their assertion that they wanted to draw blood to "protect" him.

    Protect him from being able to file a massive lawsuit against the department. It shouldn't matter one whit if he was stoned out of his gourd at the time, if he was driving in his own lane and hit by an out of control driver head on, but juries can get very dismissive of someone if you can point and say "drug user" or if they find some violation so they can say "criminal".

    Note that the opposite effect is also in play: "Preacher on his way to console a family mourning the death of their child" is much more sympathetic than "Petty thief on his way to court ordered AA meeting". Who's gonna get the bigger settlement?

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    Mine too, but brings up the question - if they obtained the blood illegally/without a warrant, would it be admissible? Seems to me it wouldn't protect them like they think.

  • OGREtheTroll||

    It wouldn't be admissible in a criminal case, but generally speaking it would be admissible in a civil trial. Some states have different rules, and it can be a bit murky overall, but in general the exclusionary rule only applies in criminal trials. So its quite likely that even if the police illegally drew the man's blood, they could use any obtained evidence from the search as part of their defense in a civil trial if the man sues the police for injuries as a result of the police chase.

  • Arcxjo||

    It's admissible in the court of public opinion, for which the media will gleefully serve as judge, jury, and executioner for a chance to lick this bastard's boots.

  • BambiB||

    What makes you believe the cops were thinking?

    Many of these gang members with guns and badges are little different from the thugs they are supposed to be capturing. They have horrible impulse control, precious little perspicacity and minimal reasoning ability. In short, they're brutish morons. Thinking is something they do not do well - or often.

  • Bill||

    perspi-whaticy?? Forgot what that means. Now I have to google it.

  • Bill||

    Hey, what do you know. Turns out I am perspicacious.

  • The Real Jose||

    It's a criminal conspiracy, then.

  • SKR||

    Chance? The nurse tells them that the victim had already been medicated to make him more comfortable and they didn't seem to care that they were asking for a dirty test.

  • ATXChappy||

    Pretty sure they did care that it was a dirty test. It's a feature, not a bug.

  • Tionico||

    prolly dosed with morphine in the meathack on the way to the hospital. But maybe the crew on the transport are in good with the coppers, and might "forget to mention" ALL of the things on the list of stuff they administered to the poor guy.

    This stinks of corruption all the way up to the head copper who ordered the draw.

    Cheers for the nurse for putting herself and her liberty at risk to not only uphold the law, but protect this innocent victim's rights. SHE should get a commendation, and ALL the dirty coppers involved (including the Lookie Lous who know better, or SHOULD, and stood about watching without saying a word. If they don't know the law concerning this, they've no business being out on the streets. Fire every one of thenm, and lay charges on them for violation of this woman's civil rights.... she IS "secure in her person......." by law. These dweebs seriously violated her civil rights, not to mention kidnapping and false arrest.

  • croaker||

    The patient was a reserve police officer in another state. They were trying to protected their own, as usual.

  • Joe Clave||

    ^THIS^

  • Hank Phillips||

    Our looter cops? Unless it was hot pursuit for refusing to draw blood from a child's eyeball without a warrant, the guy must've had a coupla hundred dollars in his pay envelope. That would be probable cause for asset-forfeiture at gunpoint. Their chief is pissed because the money burned up instead of paying for the Margarita machine and the vehicle was totaled.

  • Overt||

    This should be a note to all the people who live in constant fear of Big Corporations.

    It is pretty clear that police were worried about a wrongful death/injury suit- while they weren't driving the chased car, their decision to execute a police chase DID contribute, and there is always the chance that they will be sued over improper procedures and escalation. So what did they do? They wanted to get evidence that the victim was drunk or drugged so that they could use that to head off a suit.

    Why do I bring up corporations? Make the police a corporation in this case, and it is your classic liberal storyline. The evil corporation realizes it may get sued and so starts digging up dirt on the victims in order to escape justice. But since the police have the power of the law, they can actually force anyone to hand over dirt. It was just because a citizen was willing to go to jail rather than break privacy laws that the police were unable to get this done.

  • Jujucat||

    Further illustrating that fascism is the result leftism.

  • TommyInIdaho||

    Get evidence? How about plant evidence? Pack the blood or fake the results...

  • Hank Phillips||

    They prolly kidnapped the nurse so they could pack HER blood and use it to fake evidence.

  • Hank Phillips||

    In the Banana Republics we call the cop shops corporations. Joining one is being "incorporado," and the practice of framing up phony evidence so the boys can murder with impunity is an exercise in "corporativismo."

  • 68W58||

    Well, I was hoping that when the police lieutenant showed up he would straighten it out. Not so much, he just waived his dick around about "the law" (like hospital policies aren't crafted in consultation with actual attorneys who know what the statute books and precedents say). At the end it looked like he was having a conversation with someone who was telling him to reel his neck in. It would have been sweet to see them have to release her, but I bet they were still tools about it.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    You know who else waved his dick around?

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    Crusty. Duh.

  • Jujucat||

    George W.

  • Hank Stamper||

    Gene and Dean?

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Tony, in front of a kindergarten where all the kids are waiting for the bus?

  • Trigger Warning||

    Akbar and Jeff?

  • 68W58||

    Literally every single one of us here, every day.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Wait, what? I didn't know that was part of the comments deal!

  • Bubba Jones||

    Fortunately hospital administrators are every bit as dickish and stubborn as cops.

  • Tionico||

    and know the law... their corporate lawyers make sure of that, because if they blow it the hospital are liable for the conduct of every one of their employees. I'll bet the hospital administrators are VERY proud of this woman. Maybe their lawyers will be interested in helping her out by taking the lawsuit she MUST file against these dirty coppers.

  • DajjaI||

    At the risk of getting banned again - the problem is too many cops. They have nothing to do so they start arresting people. Also in a case like this don't resist. Just go limp and cry "somebody help me, why is no one helping me!!!!" and look pleadingly at the people as they drag you away.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    You got banned for suggesting that there are too many cops?

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    I am genuinely curious as to why dajjal got banned.

  • Hail Rataxes||

    Because he's fucking Tulpa.

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    Why would Reason care about his sexual relationships?

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    By starting every comment out with "At the risk of being banned..."

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    She did ask for help. The hospital police and administrators stood and watched.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    There's literally nothing else they could have done that wouldn't have resulted in them at best being arrested.

  • Jujucat||

    Is there figuratively something they could have done?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Literally nothing figurative they could have done at that moment.

  • junyo||

    Then you take the arrest.

    "She's right, you're wrong. Tell your boss to have a judge sign a warrant, then they're covered, you're covered, and you get the blood sample. But if you lay hands on that nurse, you better have more handcuffs and a good explanation of why you're bringing in another cops in chains. And I will back her story, not yours."

    This shit happens because these fuckers can literally strong arm anyone, and the other fuckers are too chickenshit to stand up for what's right.

  • Hank Phillips||

    Maybe we need an uninfringeable Second Amendment.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    Bullshit. Hospital cops outnumbered the criminals, and were armed. Could've gotten the drop on the criminal easily, and issued the order to submit or be shot. They're cops so they skate. But they're also cops so TEAM!!

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Pussies.

  • BambiB||

    When I first saw this I thought, "What a great place for an armed citizen to pull out a gun and shoot a cop." No way I'd vote to convict if he did.

  • Johnimo||

    Convict? Hell, I'd vote to give the shooter a medal of honor.

  • Bill||

    You'd never make it onto the jury. Besides, all cops are heroes, you know that.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    It's not a problem of quantity, it's a problem of quality.

  • BambiB||

    It's both.

    Too many bad cops.

    And it's not just the ones who are actively bad (like the one manhandling the nurse), it's the other bad cops who are bad because they stand around and DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.

  • Jujucat||

    Yeah, she did ask for help, but everyone was too spineless to do anything. They don't have minds, they judge off of surrounding people's social cues.

  • MikeP2||

    In my dream world, those security guards would have remembered who they work for and prevented the assault of one of their charges irregardless of who the assaulter is.

  • ||

    That should almost decidedly be the security guard's job; arrest a phlebotomist, nurse, surgeon, etc. and you're adversely affecting patient care. Arrest a guard and they get somebody else to cover his shift. She didn't do anything wrong and if they have to assault an officer... it almost seems like the sort of thing that should get you a bonus or at least a really nice severance package.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    You think the cops would stop at arresting one person?

  • Tionico||

    Nope. But it would have made for a much more fun story to read that the dirty coppers not only arrested that nurse for refusing to break the law, but also arrested twenty seven hospital cops and security before they filled up their jail and quit for the night.

    And it would also be fun reading about the twenty eight lawsuits filed against the police department involved AND each of the out of line officers involved.......

  • Ron||

    Security guards are often off duty police or just police waiting for a slot to open on the police force so no they won't interfere with each other.

  • ||

    Oh, I know why it doesn't or didn't happen. I just can't imagine the upper echelons at the hospital watching this, especially with the lawyer or whomever on the phone and thinking, "Yup, that's what we pay them for!".

    I've been around plenty of private organizations where the officers have to deal with real security before they get to deal with anyone protected by it.

  • Chipper Morning, Now #1||

    "Irregardless" is a word that should not be used by the nobility.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    "Irregardless" is not a word and it shouldn't be used by anyone.

  • MSimon||

    Irregardless it is a social marker.

  • Zeb||

    The cop should be punished in exactly the same way as any random non-cop would be if he walked into a hospital, assaulted and tied up a nurse and threw her in the back of his van.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    I'm in favor of this. I'm thinking of Kelly Thomas here...

  • croaker||

    And they lose all police "privilege" so they get sent to General Population.

  • sasob||

    It isn't privilege they need to lose - it's their license.

  • Paloma||

    Asset forfeiture would come in handy here. Every single cop who participated forfeits their pension and assets, including their house. Let them try to prove their innocence.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    Just got a boner.

  • BambiB||

    As a general rule, I think all judgments entered against cops for excessive use of force should be paid for out of the police retirement and benefits funds. That way, if some fuckwad wants to rough up a nurse while wearing his cop costume and spouting cop gibberish, every cop standing around with their thumbs up their asses gets to help pay the penalty when a jury awards a million bucks.

    You would immediately see cops starting to police other cops for their criminal activities and police generally would become more of what we want them to be.

  • Arcxjo||

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, only if there's a flashy yellow star (not that kind) on his nice orange shirt.

  • croaker||

    Just brand "PIG" on their forehead. The other prisoners will get the message.

  • Jujucat||

    Yes ^

  • John C. Randolph||

    I disagree. He should not serve the same sentence that any random criminal would serve for this assault, battery, false arrest, and kidnapping, he should have an additional 20 years for doing so under color of authority.

    -jcr

  • BambiB||

    I've long thought that when a cop, a judge, a prosecutor - breaks the law - the penalty should be double. From speeding fines to murder - process them as anyone else - then at the end, double all penalties.

  • Myk||

    I've always wondered why a government employee going against The People isn't treason and punishable by death. Of course the answer is the treasonous are who makes and enforces the laws.

  • Jerryskids||

    Like I said earlier when PB posted this, an egregiously unlawful act like this is a felonious assault and anybody at the hospital would have been within their rights to defend the nurse by physically restraining the apparently deranged assailant. Not that I would recommend that *you* try it, but hospital staff, doctors and nurses? No matter how much of a badge-licker you are, you're going to have a hard time getting a jury to sympathize with the PD over a hospital. Especially if the hospital went the full "feared for my life" routine and involuntaried the fucker into the psych ward with a completely fair and impartial finding after the 72-hour observation and evaluation that the guy's a nutjob and needs to stay locked up until he gets healthy.

  • My Dog Bites Better Than Yours||

    When challenging multiple cops in a combination of full-ass-covering and how-dare-you-disobey-me modes, there is more truth in "I Feared For My Life" than most people are willing to take on.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    It would be priceless to see security footage of that cop being restrained, drugged, and hauled away by a bunch of burly guys in white coats.

  • BambiB||

    Restraining?

    Shooting!

  • Tionico||

    no, the "restraining" comes in by way of the fact only one round was fired...... well placed as it was. Rather than emptying the entire magazine the one firing exercised much restraint.

  • $park¥ leftist poser||

    I feel safer already.

  • John Thacker||

    This nice bit from officer Payne (from the Deseret News article) is especially egregious:

    Payne can be heard talking about his other job as an ambulance driver, and how Wubbels' arrest might affect that.

    "I'll bring 'em all the transients and take the good patients elsewhere," he is heard saying about the hospital.

    A nice little "Fuck you, that's why" from Payne.

  • ATXChappy||

    He's a true civil servant. Hasn't even retired from his first civil services job, and he's already double dipping. What a patriot.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    And when multiple injuries show up, does he think cops will still definitely be triaged first? It's not a good idea to go to war with medics.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    By 'injuries', you're talking about the cuts they get on their knuckles from beating prone suspects?

  • croaker||

    By "injuries" I mean the 300 grains of Trepanizine he just received.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    With cops it's usually vehicular as they don't need to follow good driving practices.

  • croaker||

    Which is why he also needs to lose his EMT card.

  • FreeToFear||

    It's utterly inconceivable

    ... waves from the future coming in ...
    "Decision only one year old" ... "not clearly established" ... "qualified immunity"... "dismissal affirmed"

  • KBeckman||

    SCOTUS decision is only 1 year old. The state law prohibiting it is 10.

  • KBeckman||

    Also I think I recall reading somewhere a judge saying qualified immunity is only for when peace officers act in accordance with the laws and constitution.

  • SKR||

    So apparently the victim they were trying to get a blood draw from is a reserve officer in Idaho.

  • Jerryskids||

    Army Reserve or Sheriff's Reserve?

  • croaker||

    Reserve cop of some sort.

  • This Machine Chips Fascists||

    Blue blood matters

  • Princess Trigger||

    Give that man a Tank.
    bitch would draw the blood then.

  • BYODB||

    Not that 'just following orders' is an excuse at all, but I find it far more troubling that the officer was literally ordered to violate both people's rights. That house needs to be cleaned.

  • This Machine Chips Fascists||

    I would think that a toxicology screen is one of the first things done on the patient. The result will be in his record and available to a proper warrant at their leisure.

  • ||

    What part of 'obtaining blood samples for police enforcement from patient suspected to be under the influence' do you not understand?

    Seriously, there isn't a problem with anything that may or may not be in his blood because he's not a criminal. Even if there is a toxicology report it's not even a fishing expedition really. I think it's pretty much what others' were saying, they are/were trying to build a case against this guy and forcing the tech to draw it establishes chain of custody until they can bully some other lab tech or whomever into whatever diagnosis they like.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    Actually a "failed blood test" under any circumstance for a commercial truck driver is the end of his career. Even if he's not driving a truck. No carrier will ever again hire or lease this guy. So if the cops framed this guy to escape liability he'd not only be injured he'd also be unemployable. Not that they give a shit.

  • Tionico||

    you need to have articulable probable cause for your "suspected to be under the influence" to warrant a forced draw... and that probable cause MUST be presented to a magistrate of proper jurisdiction who must then issue a warrant for the draw.

    Had any draw been taken at that time, it would not be admissible as evidence for any purpose. The "chain of custody" from the time he was extracted from the wrect until he was in hospital with the draw being performed would have to be intact..... and my bet is the medics on scene administered mrphiine or something like.. it is standard protocol to reduce shock responses in such settings. The patient was apparently unconscious from the time he was extracted from the wreckage, so he can't testify to anything. the medics at the scene could testify.... it would be interesting to learn whether they HAD administered morphine at the scene.

  • Tony||

    If the erratic driver didn't rightfully assume that his life would be fucked up forever when he got caught, maybe he wouldn't have attempted to flee. If cops were seen as actual agents of peace and order instead of thugs who ruin people for quotas or because they're assholes or whatever, lots of tragedies and injustices could be avoided. Not that they care.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""Not that they care"'

    Not in the least.

  • ace_m82||

    Very good point, Tony.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    Tony makes good points often. It would be refreshing if he'd drop the Cheeto schtick for a single thread but he's just not that guy. But on this subject he's dead on.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Define "erratic". If DWB/DW Latino/DW Gentile (its Utah!), then I agree. If Torres was cutting across lanes, running lights, or more, then I DO want those angels of peace and order to get thuggish on his ass.

  • Fuck you, Shikha (Nunya)||

    Congrats, Tony. You got one right.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    ayne has been suspended from the police's blood draw program but remains on duty. He needs to be shown the door. It doesn't matter if he was just following orders, he should have known he didn't have the authority.

    Now, here's a little pick-me-up to remind people just how fucking nigh impossible it'll be to see one fucking iota of accountability on this.

    SEATTLE — A Seattle police officer fired for arresting a 69-year-old black man while he was walking with a golf club has settled with the city for back pay and to have her termination changed to a retirement.

    Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole Saturday signed the agreement Saturday, which provides over $105,000 in back pay and is expected to give Whitlatch her full pension for 18 years as an officer.

    What the above doesn't say is that it was the Police Union who had the decision reversed.

  • John Thacker||

    On the plus side, since Georgia does not allow collective bargaining for cops, the "we only shoot black people" Lt. will probably stay fired, at least from Cobb County until someone else hires him.

  • jabster||

    Unfortunately he's trying to resign ahead of the firing so his termination and reason won't get reported to GA Peace Officers Standards & Training (POST). Common practice in GA. Not uncommon for bad apples to show up elsewhere in the state as long as their POST cert is still intact.

  • croaker||

    Police unions should be RICOed.

  • Paloma||

    Great idea! Assets seized! Give em a taste of their own medicine.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    No public employees should have a union.

  • Whome||

    Yea, he is a BIG man isn't he, overpowering a woman with no malice towards anyone. He is a coward hiding behind a gun and a badge. We can only hope that karma steps in and maybe one day he will get injured in the line of duty and end up at this ER.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""He is a coward hiding behind a gun and a badge."'

    He strikes me as the kind of guy that would willingly drop the gun and badge to fight you.

  • croaker||

    Foley catheter. Without lube.

    "Prostate exam? Let me coat my gloves with Tiger Balm."

    "Can't give you any morphine or fentanyl. Have a Tylenol(tm)."

    "Sorry, you shot up so much steroids I can't get an IV in your arm. We'll have to use the big vein in your penis."

  • jabster||

    "Those narcotics can be quite constipating. We're going to order full enemas (not a Fleet) every 2 hours, plus laxatives and stool softeners. Ring your call button if you need a bedpan!"

  • Fuck you, Shikha (Nunya)||

    Oops.. We're all out of bed pans.

  • Whome||

    TRickyVic

    At least I can call myself a man cause I don't pridemyself on overreacting to situations and tossing a woman around that is only doing her job. And I ask you - how would you feel if that was your wife. if you side the the officer, I fell sorry for your wife

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    How do you misconstrue my post as siding with the officer's action?

    And why would you make up a false scenario in order to think I'm a bad husband?

  • Duke of url||

    Obviously, Payne is a piece of shit, but he's apparently also a retard for kidnapping medical staff, whom someday, (hopefully), might be attending to injuries he may suffer.

    However, since my wife is an R.N, I know that she would be a professional, and give him the best care, no matter how big of an asshole he had proved himself to be.

    What would society be like without 'hero's ' like this, protecting us from nurses
    that are merely trying to follow the law?

    After a day like this, you just know the officer went home, kicked his dog, beat his boyfriend, and still couldnt get an erection.

  • croaker||

    The day will come when law enforcement will be forced to build their own medical facilities and hire their own medical staff, because moral upright people will refuse to have anything to do with them.

  • Longtobefree||

    Not a problem; they will just asset forfeiture that hospital, and retrain all the officers "on leave" until retirement kicks in.

  • Myk||

    Funny the cop can do this without worry that any nurse he runs into will do the right thing. But if he were to turn in a bad cop he would fear nobody would show up if he put out an officer in need call.

  • Whome||

    Duke Of url,

    Here's is to your real HERO, thank god for angels like your wife who are willing to turn the other cheek and do her job while the some (Payne) in the world are butt blind to her efforts.

  • Duke of url||

    Thanks, she's working in the E.R. right now.
    I could not do her job.

  • croaker||

    Then all of them, including the pansy-ass cops assigned to the hospital who stood there and let this jack-booted government thug have his way, should be put in Prison, in General Population. Let the other prisoners deal with the trash.

  • Paloma||

    I don't doubt the jack booted thug would have pulled out his gun and shot anyone who stood in his way.

  • Duke of url||

    So, in this retarded pigs mind, winning a penis contest is way more important than leaving a emergency room short staffed, even if he has to commit crimes and embarrass his department to do it?
    The good people of Utah must sleep better at night knowing this is what protects and serves them.

  • Whome||

    Duke of url,

    Man, you just can't fix stupid, and they say that an idiot is born every second. Payne must have been the one on his day of birth.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""The good people of Utah must sleep better at night knowing this is what protects and serves them.""

    Well Utah is a pretty conservative state, and conservatives seem to like their tough on crime stance, so unfortunately they probably do sleep well. Generally speaking, that's part of the problem.

  • Whome||

    Trickyvic

    Exactly what crime did this woman commit?

  • croaker||

    Special Police Crime #1: Failure To Fellate Police Officer On Command

  • Eric||

    "Exactly what crime did this woman commit?"

    Don't you know that detective is a hero who risks his life every day to protect us from heroin, muslims and jazz men? Her failure to comply is out of line and completely what BLM wants.

  • croaker||

    That would be Blue Lives Murder?

  • Eric||

    Blonds who Love Mandingo. How could you not know that?

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""Exactly what crime did this woman commit?""

    She didn't commit any crime. Neither do a lot of people when the tough on crime crowd support authority.

  • Jujucat||

    Failure to give into tantrum

  • Karl F||

    Payne acknowledged that he didn't have probable cause for a warrant to take blood.

    In my view his subsequent actions should be treated as those of a private citizen, i.e. he should be charged with assault and battery, unlawful restraint, and kidnapping. Any others who assisted him in committing these crimes should also be charged.

    Police officers are not above the law.

  • Jujucat||

    Yep ^

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    I disagree. It should be something with heavier weight. They work under a set of privileges the regular citizen does not have. They are trusted, to breach that trust should come with a higher penalty.

  • croaker||

    What China does to drug dealers, we should do to bad cops.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    How about an amendment to the Official Oppression statute (or whatever it's called, Color of Law, etc.) that stipulates that any sentence imposed must run consecutively with the other crime, and that there must be another crime (otherwise what's the oppression?) and its sentence must be at the maximum because the oppression is an aggravating factor.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    "Police officers are not above the law"
    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!

  • DenverJ||

    "

  • Longtobefree||

    "Police officers are not above the law."

    The evidence says otherwise.

  • Ama-Gi Anarchist||

    I do wonder what might have happened had the Hospital sic'd a Sheriff's Deputy on Officer Payne and his jackass Lieutenant. In a perfect world, those two would have been lead out in silver bracelets and processed for violations of civil rights under color of law (among other things)....

  • mpercy||

    At least she didn't have a dog with her.

  • Chumby||

    Or a black man potentially selling loose, untaxed cigarettes.

  • Dalben||

    Also, while the cop and his superior obviously should know that what they did was illegal, suppose that for the sake of argument they slept through that part of their training and thought they had legal grounds tibdo the blood draw. Which makes more sense if a nurse is trying to stop you from taking blood because she incorrectly (in this hypothetical not in reality) thinks it's illegal. (A) arrest her for being mistaken anout the law and deprive the ER of a nurse and send someone to jail because she's just trying to do her job or (B) talk to her superior who can either tell her to allow the blood draw or more likely

  • Dalben||

    Kick it upstairs to the hospitals risk management office and lawyers. The fact that they didn't do that sjows that even giving them the benefit of the doubt for being inexcusably ignorant, they were still just being malicious arresting the nirse instead of asking a doctor or administrator to ok the blood draw. In reality of course they undoubtedly knew that if they did bring it up to someone higher in the hospital's chain of command they would get the same answer as beforex because they were just plain wrong.

  • LoneSnark||

    They did kick it upstairs. That was "upstairs" on the phone telling the cops "You are making a mistake. You are making a serious mistake." The nurse even told them "I'm not doing anything, I'm just following orders, take it up with . But, the guy on the phone wasn't there physically, so he couldn't be intimidated. This female nurse looked easy to take down and intimidate, so they did.

    What this means is that the cop himself didn't even believe what he was saying. If he had thought what he was saying was a valid argument or in any way persuasive, he would have told it to the guy on the phone, which would have then told the nurse to draw the blood. But, the cop knew his orders were illegal and that wouldn't happen, so his only means of getting what he wanted was intimidation.

  • Dalben||

    You're right, I didn't see that when I first read about the incident. So it seemed pretty obvious on my first read through that it was just intimidation to try to get an illegal blood draw, the additional details make it even more crystal clear. The headline is correct, everyone involved needs to be fired. Good work whoever required body cameras, though, and also good job for whatever technicians didn't "accidentally" erase them.

  • bacchys||

    It's also important to note that this wasn't just a hospital policy. It was a memorandum of agreement between the police department and the hospital. She even tells the police this. There's no excuse for them not knowing.

    There's no basis for a "good faith" claim of ignorance that gets so many cops off.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    Jesus F. Christ.

  • Chris Bray||

    That's one of the most enraging cop videos I've ever seen, and of course he has to be fired. No question. It's a disgrace that he's still on duty.

  • Chris Bray||

    Adding that he needs to be stripped of qualified immunity and sued personally.

  • matkinson||

    Agreed that all officers part of this should be fired. The arresting officer should be charged with false arrest and official misconduct at the least, if not also battery.

  • RealTVCritics||

    Welcome to the party white people. Welcome to the dang party. Black folks told y'all that these cops were doing this mess years ago and you didn't believe a word we said until you started seeing it on video. Now? Well now it's too late and you are now targets just like us.

    Welcome to the party white people...welcome to the party.

  • NanGee||

    Black folks not smart enough to invent cell phones or to not always be shooting each other, just had to suffer in silence until you could get on the white folks train and steal their toys..

  • And you believe that why?||

    Well that was rude.

  • Fuck you, Shikha (Nunya)||

    Sarcasm?

  • And you believe that why?||

    Some white people had black friends while growing up and have know this for decades. You shouldn't generalize white people in that manner.

    That said, they came for the blacks and most whites said nothing...

  • Myk||

    Actually BLM diluted this issue by claiming police abuse was exclusively a racial issue and not a power issue. You could've had everyone on your side, instead only BLM. This has been going on against citizens of all races for a very long time, ones who were obviously completely innocent. The media and BLM only searched out incidents where the abuse victim was a criminal acting like a criminal to blur the line. Many police brutality reports I followed have stopped reporting because BLM turned the issue into a mockery. So if it's too late you only have yourself to blame for wanting to be more special than everyone else. Believing DWB wasn't much of a stretch since I experienced monthly stops for having long hair, after I shaved, nothing.

  • ToCa81||

    There is some merit to what you say, but you're lashing out at the wrong white people. White Libertarians are far more likely to back you up because we despise the authoritarian state and abuses of power. We are also strongly opposed to any form of systematic racism. As another poster pointed out, though, black people are not the only victims of police brutality. When a movement like BLM gains widespread support and attention while ignoring the very real experiences of white police brutality victims, it divides us and fractures any chance we have to stand unified against our oppressors.

  • Dread Pirate Roberts||

    At least he didn't search her vagina in the parking lot. Guess what- no one would have dared interfere and he'd have gotten away with that as well.

    This will continue as long as we continue to shower cops with money, weapons, and immunity.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    Where's cssjunkie on this one? She obviously disobeyed a "lawful order". Probably had an illegal firearm stashed under those scrubs. Live like a thug nurse...

  • Trigger Warning||

    Holy fucking shit.

  • Brian Richard Allen||

    Both Tracy and Payne disgrace their uniforms and each needs be shown the door. With prejudice!

    As must whomever is responsible for putting such thugs on the street.

    If the conduct indulged in is in any way typical of Salt Lake City Police behavior, the force is way overdue for top-to-bottom audit and overhaul!

  • NanGee||

    I can't believe I am the only one who sees the smug superiority in the nurse of every DMV, IRS, Post Office, Veteran's Administration or other bureaucrat refusing to do their job or to be helpful in any way at all just because, and then hiding behind a curtain of HIPAA and other laws and rules to defend themselves for being lazy, unhelpful and intractable. The nurse has got to be the same sort as who stands back at any emergency and says, "ooooohhhh, I don't think you should do that or you'll get in trouble!" I really don't blame the cop for cuffing her and hauling her off. The fact that the other cops didn't step in should tell you how frustrated they were by her attitude, too. For her to then be squealing, "but I didn't *doooooo* anything!" is precisely the issue, Miss Missy. I do wish they had called in a superior, though, because superiors are frequently paid for being smart and agile enough to figure out a solution either going around the stupid rule, or coming at it from a different direction ... which Nurse Ratchet wasn't about to take the initiative to do ever.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    You are clearly an idiot. To equate the hospital's bureaucracy with police militancy is stupid beyond all comprehension.

  • NanGee||

    Good thing you spell good, since you're obviously relegated to name-calling while lacking in ideas.

  • Paloma||

    There are no ideas to answer. You have made stupid, base, misogynistic, assertions that make it obvious you're a simpering baboon. Don't you have a My 600 Pound Life episode to tape somewhere?

  • Fuck you, Shikha (Nunya)||

    Ahhh. Look. Super dick appreciated spelling and grammar.

  • Wax Pragmatic||

    +1

  • hackajar||

    Someone actually fighting for the personal liberties of a patient, and you claim it is nothing more than "bureaucrat refusing to do their job"?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

  • hackajar||

    Someone actually fighting for the personal liberties of a patient, and you claim it is nothing more than "bureaucrat refusing to do their job"?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

  • hackajar||

    Someone actually fighting for the personal liberties of a patient, and you claim it is nothing more than "bureaucrat refusing to do their job"?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    She's taking a lawyers job away. Nothing new in the US healthcare industry, unfortunately. Of course, it's better than having lawyers on call 24/7 to steal peoples' blood.

  • hackajar||

    Someone actually fighting for the personal liberties of a patient, and you claim it is nothing more than "bureaucrat refusing to do their job"?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Dude, you stutter.

  • LoneSnark||

    They did call a superior. That was him on the phone telling the officer over and over "Your making a serious mistake, the nurse is just the messenger, your dispute is with Hospital policy." The Nurse was not the one saying no, the lawyer on the phone was. But the officer could not intimidate someone educated in the law over the phone, so he arrested her to isolate her out of contact of council and intimidate her as much as he could.

  • GamerFromJump||

    HIPAA isn't just hospital policy, it's *federal* policy. The Supreme Court decision is also federal, and the blood draw rule is state policy.

    The nurse was right all the down, and the cop was wrong all the way down; not that you'll get fellaters like NanGee to admit it.

  • Paloma||

    NanGee is just baked because a female nurse didn't jump when a dumbbell cop said to.

  • Get To Da Chippah||

    I can't believe I am the only one who sees the smug superiority in the nurse of every DMV, IRS, Post Office, Veteran's Administration or other bureaucrat refusing to do their job or to be helpful in any way at all just because, and then hiding behind a curtain of HIPAA and other laws and rules to defend themselves for being lazy, unhelpful and intractable protecting an unconscious and innocent person from being violated to satisfy the whim of some power-hungry thug trying to protect himself from liability.

    Does that help?

  • Tionico||

    guess you either did not read, or did not comprehend the clear points of law and court precedent that were laid out in the text.

    Seems Utah state law predates the SCOTUS "opinion", too.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I do wish they had called in a superior, though, because superiors are frequently paid for being smart and agile enough to figure out a solution either going around the stupid rule...

    How far up the chain you reckon they needed to go?

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    So uniformed clerks at the DMV should be arrested, hogtied, and taken to the station?

  • buybuydandavis||

    So Gray's terrible injuries were a consequence of a police chase that he had absolutely nothing to do with. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. According to the coverage of the arrest, Payne said that he wanted to draw blood from Gray to check for drugs in order to "protect" him in some fashion, not to punish him, and that he was ordered to go collect his blood by police in Logan. It is not made clear in any coverage what exactly the police would protecting him from by drawing his blood without his consent while he was unconscious. Payne also said it was his watch commander, Lt. James Tracy, who told him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to draw blood.

    It's plenty clear why they wanted a blood draw.

    Police chase results in car crash, killing person chased, and injuring bystander.

    Obviously, the blood draw was an attempt to find evidence to mitigate legal liability of Police Department for the crash, shifting blame onto an "intoxicated" victim.

  • LarryWilson||

    The patient is in fact a reserve police officer. There almost appears to be an intent to obtain a sample in violation of policy so as to render it inadmissible.

    I would also ask if this 'off-duty' reserve police officer was playing wacker (public safety term for a public safety worker who gets involved in public safety incidents while off duty) and tried to use the company truck to help out his cop buddies.

  • WoodChipperBob||

    The video of the accident clearly shows the reserve police officer minding his own business in the slow lane of a four-lane undivided highway and the fleeing suspect swerving across two lanes and hitting him head on:

    http://fox13now.com/2017/07/27.....ellsville/

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    There almost appears to be an intent to obtain a sample in violation of policy so as to render it inadmissible.

    Unnecessary, as policy and law denied them from obtaining a sample in the first place. The result would have been the same. It may be that they didn't know the victim was law enforcement at all, but it's likely it wouldn't matter because if the intent was to mitigate the responsibility for the crash of their officers, it's unlikely they'd refrain from throwing a reserve officer under the bus.

  • Paloma||

    So arrest watch commander Lt. James Tracy as well. What's the problem? Obstruction of justice.

  • Bruce 6225||

    When you seek office to satisfy a need to dominate others you are a sick-o. But, on the other hand that's about half of our police officers, congressmen, senators and school teachers isn't it?

  • swampwiz||

    I think that what folks here are missing is that she backsassed the cop, and of course, that is the worst crime that can be committed in a civilized society ...

  • Wax Pragmatic||

    Holy crap. That detective is SCUM. He has no business with a badge, gun, or cuffs. If he wants a government job, he can clean toilets.

  • Hank Phillips||

    His goon union makes political contributions to looter parties.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    Just think, it's about that time of year when officers representing the PBA park their flashy squad cards out in the middle of some popular road, slow traffic to a crawl, and go wandering around asking for donations.

  • Jer Citti||

    Apparently the officer who handcuffed the nurse was in the wrong place at the wrong time. If he refused to obey his watch commander and did the right thing by not arresting the nurse he would have been properly fired as unreliable by the police force. Clearly by not obeying orders he was putting himself above the Watch Commander (WC) who was giving instructions. Conversely by obeying the WC and attempting to arrest the nurse he was clearly disobeying the law and according to Reason he should be dismissed. Screwed.
    The Watch Commander should of course be canned for giving orders contrary to law to the officer on site. The city should be required to insist the police change its policies and instruct its officers accordingly.
    The nurse should be rewarded; she should sue to ensure the city and police force change their erroneous policies.

  • LarryWilson||

    Then he should've done the right thing and disobeyed his watch commander and fight it out later.

    Because that is precisely what the other cop told the nurse she should've done.

    Fuck your double standard.

  • Paloma||

    "Wrong place at the wrong time". What a sob story. Why, yes, cop is the REAL victim here. Are you mental? Saul Goodman couldn't come up with that defense.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    ...speaking about bureaucracy, this demonstrates another vital characteristic of it.

  • Reverendcaptain||

    I'm not defending this arrest at all but am floored by the manner in which it was done. Even if it was valid, there was no reason to escalate it so abruptly and violently.

    Why did he have to "take her down" so quickly? Was she going to whip out a gun and shoot ALL the cops in the hospital? It just seems like this was all about a guy's ego being bruised and him acting like an idiot.

  • shermanator||

    Reason is half right. In most states there is implied consent for those suspects who are not able to object. Meaning, if this guybwas a suspect, they would be able to draw blood if he was unconscious.

  • LarryWilson||

    Wholly incorrect.

    A warrant is required.

  • LarryWilson||

    Wholly incorrect.

    A warrant is required.

  • Liberty =><= Equality||

    That's not what "implied consent" means. That means that you can be punished for refusing to take a test (which in the case of blood tests, was ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS).

  • Hank Phillips||

    This just in: Marco Torres, the driver killed fleeing police into the collision, was evading arrest for refusing to draw blood from an unconscious injured man without a warrant. That felon got what was coming to him!

  • PSzymonik||

    If we were able to record and post what happens in this country's broken and corrupt "family" courts, there would be daily calls for judges to be immediately fired....

  • Brother Kyfho||

    Why do you think that the family courts are closed to the public? Hint: it's not really to "protect the privacy of the litigants," it's to protect someone else. What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 80?

  • GroundTruth||

    "Your Honor"?

  • LarryWilson||

    Although the theme of this article is correct, the asshole was not demanding that she draw blood for him. The officer was in fact a qualified phlebotomist himself. He arrested her because she was not going to allow him to draw blood himself from the unconscious and vulnerable patient.

  • GamerFromJump||

    They should NOT be fired.

    They SHOULD be in prison. That's where we send people who commit crimes.

  • Duke of url||

    While I realise that most L.E.O.'s are illiterate bastards, I'm hopeful that whatever underage, prostitute they're currently sleeping with instead of their 'partner', will read to them these comments, and explain that the people they fleece for their excessive compensation, in exchange for such abuse, will no longer be tolerated.

    Who am I kidding, this bitch Jeffy is totally secure in the fact he will face no consequences, and will recieve a generous compensation package thanks to his union owners.

  • J. Valentino||

    Funny thing about most of these anti-police comments, if this were a scene out a Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry movie, you'd all be laughing and supporting the detective for handling it this way. Bunch of hypocrites. The nurse was smug and the supervisor should have not told the cop "you are making a huge mistake." Those are fighting words to a cop. Some cops may be jerks, but look at the job they have to do? Every day dealing with scum and then dealing with righteous nurses. Who would even want to be a cop? Every day fighting an enemy. But look at how we revere and respect our military (who weren't drafted, but applied for the job, too.) Sick world.

  • Duke of url||

    Fuck off , Slaver!

  • crufus||

    Who would want to be a cop if you don't get to throw the cuffs on any bitch who doesn't do exactly what you tell them to do?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    This parody needs work.

  • Longtobefree||

    Maybe, but I doubt it.
    In fact, if you want to hear one of the most reasoned statements for cops to do their job correctly, rent 'Magnum Force'.
    Dirty Harry explains most cogently why the vigilante cops are wrong.

  • AZ Gunowner||

    It is only sick because of sick people. Like you.

  • tom covenant||

    How do these cops not realize that you shouldn't fuck with the people that you might need to save your life someday, how dumb can you be!!!!

  • American Veteran Patroit||

    So we have the classic case of two professionals adhering to their standards in a very professional manner. However, ego and stupidity jumped in the way of clarity now achieving a disastrous outcome from seriously flawed leadership by this police department staff. After viewing the videos and reading the narratives, this officer (with the knowledge he was being videoed) flew into a rage that without question demonstrated a serious lack of supervisory and ethical training skill sets for a senior law enforcement officer. This bozo was working off "Do not tell what my job is because I have the badge and gun." I did notice this bozo's associate attempted to resolve the situation, but the officer bull in the china shop attitude couldn't be reined in successfully. Unfortunately, the losers in the case will be the taxpayers because they will have to pay for these dolts lack of civility and professionalism. PS: Show me where escalation was ever required? What I observed was an angry out of control attitude because his rules were not being adhered to, yet she clearly showed and told them of the agreed procedures. Hospital staff compliance all around and this group of officers demonstrated complete unprofessional management. End of story.

  • Hank Phillips||

    Was that PAID administrative leave?

  • John C. Randolph||

    two professionals adhering to their standards in a very professional manner.

    No, there was ONE professional adhering to the law, and one egomaniac shithead breaking the law.

    -jcr

  • jimheffner||

    I can picture Alex having a nice early retirement on the slopes somewhere. I wonder when the insurance rates for police will get so high that governments will start looking for solutions to avoid abuse of authority suits. First thing would probably be to examine the purpose of our police and their limits in helping to avoid an impact on the innocent and the rights of suspects. Somehow I have trouble justifying deadly force in apprehending graffiti artists and Cannabis users, not to mention handcuffing grade school kids for acting up in class. Alex and nurses are not the the only victims in this display of disregard for our rights.
    Higher standards for screening for employment especially psychological would be a nice first step with a stress on higher empathy and lower aggressiveness. Ironically the earliest public police force had a set of principles that governed the behavior of our public servants role in society.

  • jimheffner||

    Sir Robert Peel 's Principles of Law Enforcement from 1829:
    1. The basic mission for which police exist is to prevent crime and disorder as an
    alternative to the repression of crime and disorder by military force and severity of
    legal punishment.
    2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of
    police existence, actions, behavior and the ability of the police to secure and maintain
    public respect.
    3. The police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance
    of the law to be able to secure and maintain public respect.
    4. The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes,
    proportionately, to the necessity for the use of physical force and compulsion in
    achieving police objectives.
    5. The police seek and preserve public favor, not by catering to public opinion, but by
    constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to the law, in complete
    independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustice of the substance
    of individual laws; by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all
    members of society without regard to their race or social standing, by ready exercise
    of courtesy and friendly good humor; and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in
    protecting and preserving life.

  • jimheffner||

    6. The police should use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of
    the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning
    is found to be insufficient to achieve police objectives; and police should use only the
    minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for
    achieving a police objective.
    7. The police at all times should maintain a relationship with the public that gives
    reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the
    police; the police are the only members of the public who are paid to give full-time
    attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the intent of the
    community welfare.
    8. The police should always direct their actions toward their functions and never appear
    to usurp the powers of the judiciary by avenging individuals or the state, or
    authoritatively judging guilt or punishing the guilty.
    9. The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible
    evidence of police action in dealing with them.

  • Longtobefree||

    Sounds great. Maybe worked in a society where class discrimination was rigidly enforced, and 'resistance' to an officer led to imprisonment. Not sure about the part of number 5 that seems to indicate enforcement of illegal laws. Which directly applies to the case in point.
    And of course, he was a white, male peer of the realm. Much easier to make laws with all your buddies in charge..
    Supported the legal discrimination against Catholics until he didn't support it any more. As in "though emancipation was a great danger, civil strife was a greater danger". Sounds like he would fit in here and now quite well.

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  • Darr247||

    Surprised the orange buffoon hasn't weighed in on twitter asking why payne didn't whack Ms. Wubbel's head against the door frame while putting her in the car.

  • PG23COLO||

    The problem with bad cops won't be cured by better training, lawsuits, or prosecuting this bad cop. Cops abuse power because they have power. The video exposing this bad cop is the best approach to delegitimizing police power. Don't trust or employ the legal system to restrain bad cops, that's just a trap. When more people abandon the idea that coercive police power and judicial power are a way to a better world, then there will be less abuse.

  • Hank Phillips||

    The DemoGOP pays cops to violate individual rights. This particular sumbitch not only gave good measure, but roughed up a lady in the process. Both force-initiating parties will be putting up a statue in honor of this first responder once the administrative leave blows over.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Without video, even with witnesses, would this have happened? The answer is no, as it didn't happen until the video was made public by the victim.

  • DJ Allyn||

    Around 11 minutes into the longer video, the supervisor is trying to tell the nurse that it's "the law" that they be allowed to take the blood, and that if they were doing anything wrong, there are "civil remedies" that could be taken.

    UH...NO.

    This is the standard mindset of the police -- that they be "allowed" to do whatever the hell they wish, and if, later on down the road it turns out to be wrong, then "oops, our bad."

    "Sorry I shot that guy for no reason. I needed to do it at the time, but now that you told me it was wrong..."

    This was NEVER about protecting the truck driver, it was about trying to mitigate or absolve any responsibility in a death pursuant to a POLICE CHASE. I'll bet that if we were to look closer at that chase, it is possible that the cops did something that caused the death of the fleeing suspect, and they want to distract from that.

    Otherwise, there is no legal or logical reason for wanting to take a sample of blood from an innocent VICTIM.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    No doubt about it.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    The cop who did this NEEDS to be fed, feet first, into a woodchipper. I'm willing to SETTLE for his being fired.

    That goes double, BTW, for whatever government stooge has the gall to utter the words "all applicable department procedures were followed" regarding this case.

  • Reverend Draco||

    Woodchipper, my giddy aunt.

    Feed him into THIS: http://www.claasofamerica.com/.....930-typ498

  • Chumby||

    America will ignore and instead protest statues...

  • John C. Randolph||

    Just in case any of the pigs involved in this crime happen to read Reason's coverage of their debacle, I would remind them that there's no apology more sincere than Hara-Kiri.

    -jcr

  • SteveMD||

    'Every Cop Involved in the Arrest of This Utah Nurse for Refusing to (Illegally) Draw a Patient's Blood Needs to Be Fired'

    Not fired, but arrested and charged with assault.

  • Reverend Draco||

    They shouldn't be fired - they should be *executed.*

    My wife worked in medical labs for 31 years - the last 10 in a hospital, and the last 2 of those with her phlebotomy license.

    Knowing the law regarding blood draws, she would also have refused.
    If that was my wife, the cop would be publicly - messily - executed. And everyone within earshot would know exactly why.

    The sad part is *nobody* came to her defense. . . it sickens me.
    It's beyond time that these sick freaks face consequences for their actions. Lawsuits only punish the innocent taxpayers who get fleeced to pay. . . summary execution of these psycho cowards is the only Justice.

  • Praveen R.||

    If someone helped the lady, what if the cop shot that person saying he was in fear of his life and thought the person helping out had a gun? Just playing devil's advocate why someonbe might be in two minds to help the lady. Cops have shot motorists for lesser actions like tryingt to retrieve a fucking license.

  • Longtobefree||

    Not so much devil's advocate as prophet.
    Utah is a 'shall issue' state, with reciprocity.

  • Hardfloor||

    Clearly they were attempting to mitigate any liability they had for engaging in a high speed chase when most departments do not engage in such pursuits because of the very high likelihood that it will result in the deaths of innocents, as it nearly did here. Had the trucker had drugs or alcohol in his system the cops could have argued that he could have avoided the accident.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The police department for which the victim is a reserve officer had this to say.

  • Abe Froman||

    If cops would just pull their heads out of their assess for a moment it might give them an opportunity to become acquainted with the laws they claim to be enforcing.

  • Duke of url||

    The fat bald Barney Fife wannabe didn't take her off the streets because she was a threat to society, or anyone's rights or safety. I

    He kidnapped her because she challenged his authority.
    He HAD to make an example out of her because she calmly and professionally explained why he was prohibited from violating the victims rights.

    How.Dare. She!
    He went violent because in his mind, he HAD to make an example of her to other medical professionals of what happens when you question a badge.

    He was compelled to demonstrate who is in charge, and even the slightest failure to comply is contempt!
    She was lucky he didn't feel it was necessary to shoot or rape her, or her dog.
    Because the one thing they must do is dominate, and the thing they always require, is submission.

  • Vernon Depner||

    If he had raped her dog, that might have been enough to actually get some disciplinary action. Not a sure thing, though.

  • jbsnc||

    The involved policeman and his supervisor who ordered the action should be arrested and tried in court for committing a crime. What I hope will not happen is a team of lawyers in pursuit of big time money will sue the TAX PAYERS for big big bucks for THEIR 'complicity' in crime that they did not commit. We could be talking about $10,000s tax for being innocent but money for lawyers, not justice, is an important part of our justice system.

  • Louie||

    It would not surprise me if the Salt Lake City police department merely slaps the wrist of these two detectives and told not to do this again, then placed right back on duty. It does seem that most police departments don't have the guts to FIRE one of their own. In fact they probably look for ways to save the policeman's career while trying to sooth the public's anger (goal number one). Goal number two is to make it look like their investigation was fair and reliable to all sides (if you believe that I've got beach front property in Phoenix I'd like to sell you). Clearly their biggest problem is how to make this all go away while keeping the two detectives on duty and making Ms Alex Wubbels a little bit richer and giving her an apology. Liberty and Justice is NOT equal to all.

  • Bob2||

    Is anyone surprised the police would violently attempt to break the law in order to protect one of their own on the other side of 'the thin blue lie'?
    I have no doubt that if the test had been clean it would have been tearily announced on TV and if it had been dirty it would have
    quietly
    disappeared.

  • flyfishnevada||

    I still believe that most cops do a good job most of the time. But the more of this kind of thing I see, the more that belief erodes. I see disregard for the laws they are sworn to uphold. I see a mentality where every citizen is a potential criminal. I don't think it's an individual thing but a culture withing the law enforcement community. the more intrusive laws that are passed, the more cops have become jack-booted thugs to enforce them and the more of us actually are criminals.

  • crufus||

    "..I see a mentality where every citizen is a potential criminal..."

    I see a mentality where every citizen is a potential victim of police abuse.

  • absent_logic||

    These misfits are supposed to be enforcing the law in Salt Lake City? Heck, they don't even know what the law is, and they're too arrogant to have some lowly nurse explain the law to them. What a joke police department. It's plain to see that this department needs a thorough cleaning, from the top (chief) down to the bottom. This is terribly sad. Nurse Wubbels has my prayers and support.

  • GroundTruth||

    Screw firing them, every one of them needs to be arrested and charged with a slew of Fourth Amendment crimes. If there are not crimes on the books to cover this, then the nurse Wubbles and driver Grey should be suing them for every cent that they personally are worth (not what their union or the city PD can come up with - those two entities should be sued separately, for some rather large sums.)

  • Eha||

    Problem solved, he was given some paid vacation. That should be severe enough to ensure doesn't violate anyone else's Constitutional rights. Cops across this country do this sort of thing everyday, without impunity. Not really shocking, it's commonplace, including his reward.

  • Eha||

    Excuse me, with impunity.

  • Eha||

    Fear and intimidation...

    Oh, sorry- thought I was commenting on an article about terrorist tactics....

  • Eha||

    Fear and intimidation...

    Oh, sorry- thought I was commenting on an article about terrorist tactics....

  • BOUDICCA||

    Golly, what do you do when you need help and can't call the cops?

  • mccati||

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    When you update a post you really should bump it, too. It's just common courtesy.

  • Flight-ER-Doc||

    The Mayor and CoP, as well as EVERY SINGLE police officer involved in this incident (all the way up the chain of command) should be charged....

    The nurse was kidnapped. That is a felony in Utah, the police officers present should be charged with her unlawful detaining.

    The police (and the mayor, and CoP) have participated in a conspiracy to deprive her of her Constitutional Rights, and should be charged federally under 42USC1983 and 42USC1985.

    Finally, the Mayor and the SLC PD should be charged under the Organized Crime Control Act (the RICO statute), as the predicate felony of conspiring to kidnap the nurse, and deprive her of her rights, has been met.

    In the real world however, the resignation of the Mayor and CoP (for failing to supervise), the firing of every single officer present or involved (including those who conspired), and the firing of whoever trained these idiots for gross incompetence would be satisfactory. Oh, and the city, nor the baboon-thug with badge unions, pay the civil fines.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    There's always Rule 308.

  • jbsnc||

    They MUST be tried for committing and aiding and abetting a CRIME. They committed crimes! Course our sometimes laughable justice system places Lawyers getting 40% of the money TAX PAYERS are FINED as more important than justice.

  • conradswims||

    This news piece clears up what my TV clowns made of this incident in the first place. They had the Truck Driver as the cause of the head on crash. I can seen now why the hospital refused the cops request. How come the security at the hospital not remove the cops?

  • jagjr||

    seems to me that the taxpayer's in Logan should be asking their elected leaders whyinhell the police dept. maintains the expense of having licensed phlebotomists as members of the force. cops should be cops, not medical professionals - if you need blood drawn, present the warrant and let the medical staff at the hospital handle it. even if the department were asked to pay for the procedure, that can't cost as much as having a cop maintain a completely unnecessary certification. if I were a taxpayer in Logan, I'd start with those questions, but then might be inclined to wonder what other waste fraud and abuse the local government (& my tax dollars) were supporting.

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