Government Argues It's Too Much To Ask the FBI To Check the Address Before Blowing Up a Home
The Department of Justice told the Supreme Court there were "policy tradeoffs that an officer makes" in determining if he should "take one more extra precaution" to make sure he's at the right house.

The Supreme Court last week heard a case from a family whose home was wrongly raided by the FBI, after which they were barred from bringing their civil suit to trial. Before the Court: Should the plaintiffs have been able to sue the government under the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA)?
Oral arguments got into the weeds of the FTCA, under which plaintiffs Curtrina Martin and Toi Cliatt were prohibited from suing, even though Congress revised that law in the 1970s to give recourse to victims of federal law enforcement misconduct. But there was one particularly instructive exchange between the Court and Frederick Liu, assistant to the solicitor general at the Justice Department—a back-and-forth that is decidedly less in the weeds.
Liu: The officers here were weighing public safety considerations, efficiency considerations, operational security, the idea that they didn't want to delay the start of the execution of the warrants because they wanted to execute all the warrants simultaneously. Those are precisely the sorts of policy tradeoffs that an officer makes in determining, 'Well, should I take one more extra precaution to make sure I'm at the right house?' Here, Petitioner suggests, for example, that the officer should have checked the house number on the mailbox.
Justice Neil Gorsuch: Yeah, you might look at the address of the house before you knock down the door.
Liu: Yes. And, and, as the district court found at 52(a), that sort of decision is filled with policy tradeoffs because checking the house—
Gorsuch: Really?
Liu: —number at the end of the driveway means exposing the agents to potential lines of fire from the windows.
Gorsuch: How about making sure you're on the right street? Is that…you know, asking too much?
That the government indeed thinks it is asking too much to do basic due diligence here—a.k.a., requiring agents to ensure they are in the right place before detonating an explosive inside a home and ripping the door from its hinges—epitomizes the state's general allergy to accountability. More dire is that the argument has worked.
The FBI SWAT team "executed the warrant while it was still dark outside," wrote the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit in ruling against Martin and Cliatt last year, and "difficult to ascertain the house numbers on the mailboxes." The leader of the raid, Lawrence Guerra, thus acted reasonably, the court said, when he led officers to the wrong house. There, agents set off a flash grenade, took the front door off, stormed into the couple's bedroom, handcuffed Cliatt, and held the couple at gunpoint, rendering Martin unable to get to her seven-year-old son in a different room.
"I don't know if there is a proper word that I can use," to describe the fear she felt that night, Martin told Reason last year, prior to the Court taking up her case. "There's been a lot of incidents of negligence, and it's like no one takes accountability. And there needs to be awareness. It's really sad that the people that you look up to for protection are the ones that seem to harm you the most."
Also distressing: the government believes it should be able to pair stratospheric levels of power with proportionally low standards. It remains to be seen if the Supreme Court will agree.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Can’t decide without knowing their immigration status. If they were citizens or legal, then this is absolutely terrible. If they were illegal then fuck ‘em. Send the family to a foreign torture prison.
don’t the police have Google maps or Apple Maps on their cell phones?
You can check the address from the safety of your blacked out van by looking at the map on your cell phone
Or is it too much trouble to turn on your cell phone and glance at the map?
Of course they do. It is very hard to memorize all of the streets, lanes, allys, etc of a decent sized city. Feds may be in worse shape, covering more territory. They need electronic maps to do their job efficiently these days.
My GPS periodically identifies the wrong address. For instance, it gives me the one on the other side of the street sometimes.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you probably read the sign before you demand the hardware shop gives you a haircut.
The Supreme Court is either complicit or supremely naive to think that they would raid a house and not already have the floor plans, the satellite imagery, google street view, etc for the house being raided, as well as all houses in the vicinity - front and back yards included.
These raids are intentionally done to scare the citizens and set precedence for future intentionally wrong raids. Fuck em
You can't know their immigration status if you don't know which house.
Mistakes happen.
But when people who aren't police make mistakes, they get sued or go to jail.
Oh, sure, if the entire SWAT team had been standing around staring at the mailbox and trying to find the house number, that could open them up to preemptive return fire from the house.
So why not just have one person with a flashlight verify it?
Too complicated for fibbies. They gots them small little brains which can't process much when their blood supply is restricted by all that body armor, is that it?
Just get rid of immunity. It would stop 99% of these stupid mistakes. Fuck up, pay up.
The FBI, DEA, and the rest of these thugs are the standing army the founders warned us of.
Now do ICE.
Or just open Google maps on your phone and look at your location.
The same google maps that sends people driving into lakes and down dirt roads? Not arguing they shouldn't make sure where they are, but Google maps is not foolproof. Ask a truck driver, the pros don't trust Google because that's how the new drivers end up down residential dead ends with 40 tons of can't turn around.
I hear tell they got these wild things, bunuculors? Something like that. Anywho, they let you look at things without getting close. Maybe they should look into those.
There should be a law that any police raid must bring a seasoned professional door dasher with them. For fk sake the FBI fks up more often then a fentanil addict with a contract gig delivering sandwiches.
Can’t believe ppl still think these are accidents
My prediction, the SC will ok the FBI/police/IRS/whoever
They are on the same team after all
(Prove me wrong you black robed bastards, i dare you)
My prediction? Pain.
-Clubber Lang
I predict 5-4 in favor of the pigs.
I expect SCOTUS will give them immunity.
Depends how Barrett, Kavanaugh and Roberts vote. I'm pretty sure we know how Gorsuch will.
For many years now surgical patients have been able to place an "OK/Not OK" or "This one/Not This one" mark on relevant body parts with a brightly colored ink pen. The basic idea is that the mark(s) will warn the surgeon, before the first incision, against amputating the wrong foot, leg, or breast, or entering the wrong side of the chest or abdomen. These errors still occur, but they are vanishingly rare now, and I believe such cases that do occur are always settled out of court.
It's truly appalling that Trump's DOJ (yes, he does own it now) or anyone else's can even try to excuse the lack of a similar fail/safe mechanism in law enforcement regulations. Invasion of the wrong home by militarized LE gangs can apparently happen to anyone, although I'd reckon it happens more often to black civilians than white ones. Such invasions could certainly result in outcomes much worse than this family suffered.
>although I'd reckon it happens more often to black civilians than white ones.
Always with the racism.
It would have to happen to pretty much *every* black 'civilian' (cops are civilians too, you know) considering blacks are 13ish percent of the population.
Also, you're ignoring all the other minorities. Hispanics are a larger minority than blacks - but you ignore them.
Your reading comprehension is off. More often refers to the rate of such incidents happening.
Black civilians are more likely to be criminals. According to crime statistics. Black civilians, including the criminal ones, live in majority black neighborhoods. Hence, the greater likelihood.
Law enforcement having no real incentive to get it right plays no role, in your view?
They have extremely high incentive to get it right bc what if they think the dude is not armed and go into a house of fully armed tweakers up late at night? You think they don’t know every inch of the inside floor plans? Getting it wrong leaves their men completely blind and puts them all in unnecessary danger that is easily mitigated. No, these are almost always intentionally bad raids.
""You think they don’t know every inch of the inside floor plans? ""
Only on TV.
Granite you keep beating a drum but no one is following.
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Also, Grey's Law: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
I disagree about the vanishing rare. My wife has had them prepping her for both brain surgery and a leg amputation, when she was supposed to be having spine surgery, over the last 15 years. Imagine her dismay when the orderly showed up to shave her head. It took years to grow that hair. Why? The supposed brain surgery. Luckily, her daughter was there, and acted as an effective advocate - yelling “Get Dr K (her real surgeon) here. Now! Better clock out and don’t expect to be back here tomorrow at work”. He wasn’t. Wife is a particular favorite of her spine surgeon, and has had hospital staff fired on more than one occasion for such negligence. It helps that he is one of the best revenue generators for whatever hospital he is working at.
The one innovation that does seem to work well is bar coding each of the patients, and much of the hospital staff. When, say, dispensing meds, you see them scanning the patient’s bar code, then their own, before actually dispensing them. They do it so routinely anymore that you almost don’t notice how ubiquitous it is, in better hospitals. Even seen it in some urgent care clinics.
I know if I were going in for an amputation, I'd definitely take a Magic Marker and write something like "This is the good one, DO NOT REMOVE" on the other limb.
>Government Argues It's Too Much To Ask the FBI To Check the Address Before Blowing Up a Home
Hey, you guys wanted the status quo - a Harris presidency - where all this stuff developed. So don't complain.
This is some dumbass shit. Harris sucked, I won't argue that for a second. But arguing that maybe the current criminal administration shouldn't be committing crimes against humanity by shipping people off to foreign torture prisons, especially without due process to make sure they're actual criminal aliens, isn't remotely the same as excusing Harris's copsucking. When I say "This dogshit sandwich tastes terrible", what I actually mean is "This dogshit sandwich tastes terrible", not "Man, I wish I had a horseshit sandwich!"
Seriously? Didn't they already pick a no-knock Oh-Dark-Thirty raid to minimize the risks of in-home snipers being on duty? Really, a nuclear strike would eliminate the risk of exposing officers to gunfire.
Law enforcement are trained to prioritize officer safety above common sense, the law, the Constitution, public safety, human rights, human decency, and basically everything else. And everything is a threat to officer safety. They are taught this because courts always defer to officer safety. Just like courts say it's ok for cops to beat someone to death as long as they yell "Stop resisting!" while they're doing it.
If SCOTUS rules against them then this will be a major blow to police impunity. I hope they get it right.
I can see a policy issue; requiring them to refrain from attacking a house not specified in the warrant would deprive them of the ability to get a pretextual warrant for a proxy house and use it to raid the one they're really after.
Solution: a low-yield neutron bomb or simply fog the whole neighborhood with sarin. Once all suspected perps are hauled off to the coroner, seize the houses as suspected of something that justifies asset forfeiture and sell them of for the Sheriff's margarita machine or riot guns fund, Q.E.D.
Remember, they have a whole team, wide awake, pumped with adrenaline, all sorts of technology, and the opportunity to conduct this raid at exactly the day and time of their choosing. But if they screw up, it's completely understandable.
On the other hand, when they crash into your bedroom, awakening you at a time specifically chosen to disorient and confuse you, and you manage to blow off one of their empty fucking heads before they arrest you, they'll insist that of course you knew it was the police, and of course you just wanted to kill a cop, despite the lack of any evidence of criminal enterprises in your home and the lack of any reason to think that someone appearing in your bedroom in the middle of the night would be the police, precisely because you're not a criminal.
In the unlikely event I would ever be asked to serve on a jury in a case like this, I will NEVER convict someone who shot a cop that burst into their home, because I can't overcome the reasonable doubt that the cops will lie their asses off to make their actions look less terrible than they obviously were.
But ONLY the cops, right? Shitbags never lie under oath to make themselves look less guilty.
Bad cops are bad. They should be drummed out of the force and sent to jail to receive outlaw justice. But good cops are good, and I'm glad anyone is willing to do that thankless job in this fucked up era. And every guilty piece of shit they take off the street should be removed from society for a lot of years, if not permanently. A tiny fraction of the population is responsible for almost all of the violent crime, and we don't need them back.
There are plenty of good cops in the world, and I think everyone recognizes their value, but those good cops clearly do not do enough to weed the bad ones out of their ranks.
As long as bad cops are tolerated, there are no good cops.
Frank Serpico said it best. It's not going to change until the bad cop fears the good cop and not the other way around.
It is disturbing that LEOs are not required to be able to read maps and use binoculars.
All they need to is piss in a Reagan Dixie cup and praise the Lawerd. Literacy, rithmetic, IQ, ability, sanity are all secondary to that.
No one under 50 can read a map, grandpa.
The government seems to be missing the point that if you want to raid a bunch of places simultaneously so that none of them can alert the others, if you raid the wrong place, the place that you should have raided is may well be alerted by the raids on the other places.
Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius (Kill them. For the Lord knows who are His). It's the Christian National Socialist solution, the more so since Murrica finally has a Pope iv Rome to plenarize them indulgences and make it all go away.
I wonder how the Dems are getting along, with their vote-getting Chicom Sharknado Warmunism...
We have now reached critical mass retardation.
How about take the postman with you? He/she is a federal employee and actually knows which house is which, they'll get a few hours overtime just to ensure that's address X. And mistakes happen, the issue here should not be whether law enforcement can make mistakes or can avoid making mistakes, it's whether they should have to pay for their mistakes. I don't understand at all how law enforcement at any level can destroy your house by accident and then just walk away leaving you with the bill.
So law enforcement had strategic reasons involving timing to not be certain they were at the right house? What effect does raiding the WRONG house have on that strategy?
It is a wonder when their rationalizations just make their argument sound worse.
Is anybody old enough to remember the tough on crime drug wars where they would drive a repurposed APC through the front wall of your house to stop you from being able to flush the evidence or something ... but they kept getting the wrong address. Whatever happened to that thing ? They even spoofed it in the movie "Dragnet".
Having the correct address is necessary to getting the right person off the street. It is core information to compete that task. Funny how they pretend it's not important.
Having the correct address and being at an incorrect address are not mutually exclusive. The issue is the Fed's complete failure to perform due diligence expressly to prevent the latter.
OK, I can't with that graphic.
Did you make those black people adopt an aggressive defensive posture and scowl at the camera? You know that normal black people aren't like that, right? Just the agitators that never really left the plantation.
The rest of us just smile naturally and aren't pissed off at everything and everyone 100% of the time.
Why are you such a racist, Billy Binion?
They aren't just some random black people. They're the plaintiffs in the case about which this article is written, who have been trying for more than seven years to get restitution for a home the government wrongfully destroyed. And if SCOTUS rules in their favor they'll... ::checks notes:: ...get to go back to court. You expect them to be smiling about it?