Trump's Citizenship Decree Signals His Willingness To Flout the Constitution
The executive order contradicts the 14th Amendment and 127 years of judicial precedent.

In practical terms, Donald Trump's attempt to nullify birthright citizenship by executive decree, which ran into immediate legal trouble last week, is probably the least significant element of his immigration crackdown. But it is telling as an indication of the president's willingness to disregard the law in pursuit of his agenda.
Under the 14th Amendment, "all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" are "citizens of the United States." But under an executive order that Trump issued on his first day in office, that status would be limited to the children of citizens or legal permanent residents.
The order notes that the 14th Amendment "has never been interpreted to extend citizenship universally to everyone born within the United States." But according to an 1898 Supreme Court decision, there are just two exceptions that remain legally relevant: children of foreign diplomats and "children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation."
Because they enjoy diplomatic immunity, representatives of foreign governments are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. Invading soldiers likewise are neither inclined nor expected to abide by U.S. law, the obligation that the Court saw as the essence of national jurisdiction based on British common law, colonial legislation, judicial rulings in England and America, and the debate preceding the 1868 ratification of the 14th Amendment.
Those two exceptions, the Court said, had deep roots in that history. It also recognized a third exception, for "members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes," that no longer applies.
"The amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States," the Court said. "Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States."
Although a lawyer defending Trump's executive order dismissed that clear statement as "broadly worded dicta," the Supreme Court has repeatedly reaffirmed this understanding of jurisdiction and citizenship. In 1939, for example, the Court noted that "a child born here of alien parentage becomes a citizen of the United States."
In a 1982 equal protection case, the Court said "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful." Three years later, it acknowledged that the child of two unauthorized immigrants "was a citizen of this country" by virtue of being "born in the United States."
Given these precedents, the dismay expressed by the federal judge who issued a temporary restraining order against Trump's edict is understandable. "I can't remember another case where the question presented [was] as clear as this one is," said U.S. District Judge John Coughenour, who was appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1981. "This is a blatantly unconstitutional order."
Conservatives such as James Ho, whom Trump appointed to a federal appeals court and considered as a Supreme Court nominee, and law professor John Yoo, usually a staunch defender of executive power, likewise have recognized that the president cannot do what he is trying to do. Why bother then?
Even if it were allowed to take effect, Trump's order would have a gradual, forward-looking effect, applying only to children born on or after February 19. It would be far less immediately consequential than his other immigration initiatives, such as mass deportation of unauthorized residents and changes in asylum and refugee policy, all of which have a sounder legal basis.
Trump's citizenship order is best understood as a symbolic stand against the "invasion" he perceives when people enter this country in pursuit of better lives. But his casual disregard for the Constitution sends another message, one that should make Americans grateful for the restraining influence of an independent judiciary.
© Copyright 2025 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
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So it’s a trial balloon. What’s new?
Outstanding job, Jacob.
I don’t like it when government officials make obviously illegal or unconstitutional actions as a “trial balloon.” Nor do I believe that it is good governance to try and generate “test cases” hoping to get courts to establish a new precedent (particularly to overrule existing precedent). SCOTUS itself has long interpreted its own jurisdiction (a word chosen in Article III) as being only over actual “cases or controversies” and not hypothetical situations.
If we don’t like it when courts overstep and insert their preferences into political issues, then we should only want them ruling when there is a real case and not a manufactured one. But that could mean Congress or a President taking illegal actions that don’t directly affect anyone in an obvious way immediately being unchallenged in court. That is where courts come in with injunctions. But my non-laywer understanding of the standards for issuing an injunction are that it is supposed to be fairly difficult to get one. The party seeking an injunction against a law or executive order being enforced is supposed to show that a) they are likely to win after a full trial or hearing on the merits and b) they are harmed by the threat of enforcement as well as by concrete action. (That is, there is a “chilling effect” on exercising their rights.)
But really, we can argue extensively over whether courts do or do not uphold those standards before acting, and whether or not they are stepping in where they shouldn’t and issuing rulings on hypotheticals and other manufactured cases. In the end, the only check on government abuse within our system of government that can’t be subverted by officials intent on abusing their power is to not vote for people that will abuse their power. To borrow and paraphrase from CJ Roberts (The best way to stop discrimination by race is to stop discriminating by race.), the best way remove the power-hungry and corrupt from government and keep them out is to stop voting for the power-hungry and corrupt.
What makes this so difficult, and why it doesn’t actually work that way most of the time, is that we can only control our own vote. If I only vote for people with integrity and that will uphold everyone’s rights, that doesn’t stop anyone else from voting for someone that doesn’t have integrity or respect for our rights.
I could get angry about that and then vote for someone that will uphold my rights, but won’t respect the rights of other people fully. Someone that will oppose the politicians I oppose, but they will oppose them with tactics and means I would that I would condemn when used against me or my side. Someone that will blast opponents when they violate laws or the constitution, but will excuse or even support allies that violate laws or the constitution (or worse, be the ones violating laws or the Constitution and then lying to justify those actions). Someone that will expose and prosecute the lies and corruption of people I oppose, but that will turn a blind eye to lies and corruption by their allies (or worse, be corrupt and full of lies themselves).
What’s the end result of that? The end result is obviously that there will be no one voting only for people with integrity to be in positions of power.
You don’t like it when Republicans do it at least…
Go ahead, tell me that you only read the first sentence without saying that you only read the first sentence…
Tell us in a few short sentences why anyone should. Perhaps break it all down into a few short relevant posts. And don’t take sullum’s word for what is and is not relevant.
Correct. But sully needs mommy because orange man.
RE: “Under an executive order that Trump issued on his first day in office, that status would be limited to the children of citizens or legal permanent residents.”
Another article claiming that Trump’s Executive Order attempts to end birthright citizenship. While I don’t agree with the EO, that’s also not what I read it to do. This is what the EO actually says:
“..no department or agency of the United States government shall issue documents recognizing United States citizenship, or accept documents issued by State, local, or other governments or authorities purporting to recognize United States citizenship.”
Refusing to issue or accept documents that recognize the U.S. Citizenship children of undocumented immigrants does not deny those children actual U.S. citizenship. Instead, it perhaps renders them as “undocumented citizens.” Thankfully, that is fairly common in the U.S. and not usually an issue, as most documents and forms of identification used in the U.S. do not provide any indication of citizenship. Examples: social security cards, driver’s licenses, birth certificates — none of these “recognize U.S. Citizenship,” mostly they just recognize that the person is legally present and allowed to work.
So Trump’s Executive Order on birthright citizenship likely has little practical effect within the U.S. itself. In particular, local and state-issued birth certificates are the document usually used by citizens to prove U.S. citizenship (especially children), even though this document itself provides no indication or recognition of U.S. citizenship at all. Rather, citizenship is inferred from the record of birth by operation of law.
It seems really odd that so many intelligent and experienced individuals do not realize this basic fact. As I see it, the only effect of Trump’s EO is going to be restricting the issuance of new U.S. passports to children of undocumented immigrants. That is something that he may be able to do by EO as well, as issuance of a passport to a citizen is technically a privilege and not a right, and he approval of passport applications is an exercise of administrative discretion.
Of course, there are rules governing the discretion, particularly with regard to Equal Protection and Rational Basis and to be arbitrary and capricious, which are challenges this EO is likely to face in the courts for wrongfully denied passports. Still, the EO itself does not do anything to actually render these children non-citizens even though that is implied in its stated purpose.
ABSURD on its face. The claim that the order doesn’t deny citizenship to children born to those illegally in the US is not even remotely rational.
You can argue that the order is unconstitutional, but you CAN’T make a remotely sane argument it creates “undocumented citizens”.
As I mentioned, citizenship is acquired automatically by operation of law. An Executive Order does not modify law, rather it sets administrative policy. Denial of a U.S. passport to a U.S. citizen does not mean they are not U.S. citizen anymore.
Whatsmore, even if the children born in the U.S. of undocument immigrant parents are not U.S. citizens, those children still are not without legal status themselves. Rather, such children likely would be considered Lawful Permanent Residents at birth, for they have not entered the U.S. illegally.
Yes, there were only those two exceptions at the time — diplomats and invaders. But!
* “Invaders” is never defined, and there’s a good case to be made that only the President and/or Congress can decide that. The Supreme Court may well say that is non-justiciable. If Trump and/or Congress want to call millions of border jumpers an invasion, especially when so many are criminals and even some terrorists, is any court really going to wade in? I bet not. “National Security” is the root password to the Constitution, after all.
* Passports and visas were not common until after WW I, 20 years later. Tourists and immigrants alike just came and went if they wanted, using smaller ports, as I understand it. If they came in at San Francisco or New York, they could be turned back by immigration officials. But if they came in at some rinky dink port, what process was there? No one says. they just say those magic words, “only two exceptions.”
A proper reporter would have known these things and done some digging.
And as usual, there’s no discussion of why open borders are a matter of liberty. not any mention of how welfare enticements and refugee near-kidnapping are not open borders.
No – Native Americans were an exception. They were not citizens until 1924 but that is because they were under TREATY not regular individual jurisdiction.
Illegals are transparently NOT under treaty. They are under individual jurisdiction. That is why Trump has no problem deporting them individually. No treaty partner is saying that is a treaty violation.
Trump and you MAGA heads KNOW that illegals are under jurisdiction. That is why they are called ‘illegal’ and, even individually, are DEPORTABLE because their documentation is not in order. Jurisdiction also, at least under our Constitution, also requires due process for even various actions that our government takes that affect individuals. Which is why we have many immigration judges who deal with those issues.
That’s the part of the Constitution that was written in invisible ink apparently. And only MAGAheads believe that a dictator (who comes to power by election or insurrection – doesn’t matter to you MAGAheads) can arbitrarily decide que sera sera (and not sung like Doris Day).
You’re somewhat confused. That illegals are not immune from the law does NOT mean that they are “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States within the meaning of the 14th amendment, and they certainly do not legally reside in this country. “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside” Illegals have no legal domicile in this country, and they owe no political allegiance to the US. Wong Kim Ark was the child of parents who were permanent residents, legally domiciled in this country. The issue and holding of that case was clearly limited to these facts. Now, there is a lot that Wong did not get right but even under that case, the children of aliens who are not legally domiciled in this country are not citizens at birth. Illegals and tourists do not reside in this country and it is a distortion of the constitutional text to accord their children citizenship.
The ‘illegal’ designation is absolutely ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ if the government is capable of acting on that illegality designation.
A diplomat is not ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the US’ because of the international and bilateral treaties re diplomats
A soldier is not ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the US’ because he is surrounded by thousands of other soldiers – all ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ of an enemy trying to violently overthrow the jurisdiction of the US
A Native American wasn’t (then) subject to the jurisdiction of the US because he was deemed to be a member of a collective – the tribe with whom the US had a treaty. Now that was obviously bullshit since the US violated every treaty – but we explicitly maintained the legal fiction (that the only way to be eligible for US citizenship was to explicitly give up being subject to that treaty) until throwing it aside in 1924.
Illegals have no legal domicile in this country
Constitutionally that is not true. Congress has the enumerated authority to define uniform rules of NATURALIZATION – but not residence. Which means under the 10th amendment – it is the States who retain unenumerated rights – including defining residence.
The hundreds of bilateral treaties which controlled migration from foreign countries to the US (notably all the German duckdoms – see Hesse) in the 19th century are IMO a far better way of creating an immigration strategy than the current unilateral authority approach – or the ‘originalist minimal-fed’ approach that would put it in the hands of States. That 19th century approach would in fact put all immigrants (except refugees) into a general subject to treaty bucket/exception. But ‘building a wall’ – and deporting en masse – and bullying foreigners from shitholes – and everything else MAGA – is completely deference to a unilateral approach rather than a bilateral or decentralized approach
Like most topics, you’re ignorant as usual. The links below show you what they meant. Hint. No allegiance to other countries.
So wait, we can draft vacationing foreigners in case of war, because they would be “under our jurisdiction”?
“So wait, we can draft vacationing foreigners in case of war, because they would be “under our jurisdiction”?”
And make them serve jury duty.
Pay income taxes!
I don’t see any constitutional problem with that, so sure. It might violate treaties or other agreements we would have with the countries those people are from, or international agreements we have ratified, however. Since we wouldn’t want our citizens drafted into the armies of other countries they are just visiting, it would probably be really, really dumb to try that ourselves, on top of that.
Don’t see any constitutional issues with something blatantly ridiculous like drafting a visiting foreigner into our military? Keep digging, your opinion is terrible, but at least you are trying to pretend you are consistent.
The fact that there are plenty of valid counter-arguments to both you and Sullum suggests that the SCOTUS needs to weigh in. Thanks for supporting the MAGA view!
So, JFree, do you think tourists are legally residing in this country? Should their children be US citizens at birth under a proper reading of Wong Kim Ark?
They ARE citizens. 7500 or more per year born to tourists out of the the 4.5 million or so total births in the US. I certainly don’t like the idea of some sleazy tourist industry bringing late term pregnant women into the US to give birth with all the health risks that entails. But you stop that with the airlines and the border – NOT changing the rules of citizenship to satisfy the commentariat.
Canada, Mexico, Brazil, the entirety of the Americas – all do the same. This is not a real issue and even if it is the solution is entirely different than the nonsense proposed.
I have no idea what you’re trying to argue. Foreign tourists do not reside in this country. Neither do illegals. And individual states cannot settle and make permanent residents of such foriegn nationals. That power rests with Congress. As to what the 14th amendement requires, Wong Kim Ark makes clear that citizenship only attaches to peramanently domiciled legal residents. If you’re using an AI program to do your thinking I advise you to switch to a different app.
How is the soldier example different from the illegal border crosser?
A soldier invades a country while armed and intent on violence upon the nation they are invading (the nation’s armies, infrastructure, and civilian population). Even if the invader abides the laws of war and doesn’t target civilians, those civilians will still get in the way of their military goals and will be dealt with by force when they do.
The immigrants we are talking about are here looking for a better place to live than where they came from.
They are only “invaders” in metaphorical sense and in the minds of “Great Replacement” conspiracy believers.
The illegal border crosser is crossing individually or maybe with their family. It is a civilian cop and a civilian court that stops them – not the US army.
Further – that whole argument path is patently ridiculous unless you want to posit that this is some trans woke invasion of pregnant soldiers who are invading hospitals to give birth.
The issue is moot for the present time, even if children born to undocumented immigrants are considered to be not “subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.” (which I don’t agree with), they are still neither illegal nor undocumented themselves. Legally, such persons are born as U.S. Lawful Permanent Residents (i.e. green card holders) rather than U.S. Citizens. So the children still get legal immigration status and can eventually naturalize into U.S. citizens instead.
What do you mean “legally”? There is no such statute. And, if indeed it is the case, this would be an administrative decision prompted by a misapplication of the 14th amendment. It can be corrected administratively, which is the purpose of the EO. And I am not even sure you are properly citing any regulation, but I am certain you are not citing a law enacted by Congress.
It isn’t just that they can be deported, since even diplomats can be expelled. “Illegals” can be prosecuted for any violation of U.S. law, not just the ones regarding their presence in the country. It seems to me that in order to not be subject to U.S. jurisdiction, they could only be deported, no matter what U.S. laws they violated. Just like diplomats with immunity.
Invading soldiers are just as subject to our laws as illegals or anyone else. If they murder, we prosecute them.
I don’t think that’s true, as a matter of international law. Turn it around and think about how it would apply to our soldiers while they invade another country. (Germany, Italy, Japan if you want conflicts that were unambiguously righteous wars.)
Our soldiers would kill the enemy on their home soil. They would even kill civilians when dropping bombs or otherwise directing fire at enemy soldiers that were near civilians or when civilians were mistook for enemy soldiers. Were those American military men murderers that could have been prosecuted in those countries had we not won those wars? We sure better hope not.
Prosecuting enemy invading soldiers for war crimes committed in U.S. territory would be done under the authority of international laws and treaties, not domestic criminal law.
But it is telling as an indication of the president’s willingness to disregard the law in pursuit of his agenda.
He says patently ignoring the previous four years.
And ignoring the fact that the Will of the American People is to get the border under control and start deporting illegals. As opposed to the previous president who brazenly ignored that Will, and let in God knows how many murderers, terrorists, sex offenders, child predators, thieves, drug-peddlers/users, human traffickers, gangbangers, entitlement leeches, and any other color of criminal.
But his casual disregard for the Constitution sends another message, one that should make Americans grateful for the restraining influence of an independent judiciary.
Unless they oppose a Democrat agenda. In which case, it’s obviously corrupt and we need to expand the bench.
Am I right, Jakey News Fakey? Tell me I’m wrong, you two-faced, self-dealing, partisan hack.
“Will of the American People” is a myth. Our country is so divided that it is impossible have any idea what their will is. And you can’t point to the election because the entire Trump campaign was based on lies.
What lies you ask? For example Trump distanced himself from Project 2025 and the Republican pundits spent a great deal of time saying how Project 2025 was nothing more than one think-tank’s ideas and mocked anyone who said otherwise. Well Project 2025 is in full force.
Are we still doing that???
Well, I mean, OK…
Project 2025! *drink*
Thanks Maddow.
You were so full of Biden’s mandate the previous four years. What happened, did mob rule turn around and bite you in the butt?
I saw New Jersey AG whip out 2025 about the Pause, so it’s a revived talking point.
Also, “fact-checkers” are in full swing on new admin’s press sec., having gone years without a peep about the bald-faced lies spit out by KJP.
Tell me that you have no familiarity with the document without telling me
LOL
Project 2025 >>> Project 1619
Oh, its divided *now?*
But it wasn’t divided a year ago, right? The ‘will of the people’ was made clear in Nov 2020, right?
…with 15 million extra “votes”, never seen before or since 2020.
You haven’t actually read Project 2025, have you?
Here, she’s read it so you don’t have to – and she’s a lefty.
https://egalitarianjackalope.wordpress.com/2024/11/22/i-read-project-2025-so-you-dont-have-to/
Will of the People is a myth when the GOP wins the popular vote, huh?
Wow, you’re so October 2024.
You can’t deport millions. Hitler had a hard time even trying to eradicate millions. We’ve seen and heard about flights and a few 1000’s deported in the past week, but that is less than 0.1% of the numbers required. The costs per person are extraordinary too. Many may hate these people and wish they were gone, much like Germany wanted all Jewish removed, but the reality is sooner or later they are going to have to accept that there is no alternative to living with these people alongside us.
He spearheaded a weeks long attempted coup, so ya, he is not just willing, but eager to flout and violate the Constitution.
Thanks Maddow.
No, it was a counter coup.
First coup ever attempted by filing lawsuits, and then abiding by the court decisions and leaving office as scheduled.
And if he stopped with those everything would have been fine.
Did he leave on Jan 20th, yes or no?
He left because he attempted coup failed, that is what the “attempted” part means. Had he stayed on Jan 20 it would have been a successful coup and we would be having a very different conversation.
People to do attempted coups don’t get a pass because they failed.
“He left because he attempted coup failed,”
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Fuck off and die, lying pile of TDS-addled shit.
At the very least – a failed mind reader. Or a mendacious charlatan posing as a mind reader.
Hawaii 1960. Look it up. I won’t do your homework for you.
Weeks long? What the fuck? You’re deranged.
Petitioning the government and courts is illegal if you’re conservative.
Of course. Everything is always (D)ifferent.
That’s why MAGAheads voted for him. To flout the Constitution.
Side note – For some reason, every time I’m typing the word flout the Sound of Music is becoming an earworm.
i flit i flout i fleetly flee i fly with all the MAGAheads supporting him with
And up in the nurs’ry
An absurd little bird
Is popping out to say “coo-coo.”
Again, showing his standard ignorance and dedication to left wing narratives.
Who did?
Note to Sollum: If someone enters the US illegally, they should be deported and not welcomed with open arms, a bottle of champagne and roses.
Now if the alien comes to our country legally, and goes through the citizenship process, then the foreigner will be welcomed.
Only a first-class moron would welcome illegal aliens.
Sollum as in Gollum. Love it!
A coup according to a leftist: Any time conservatives protest is a coup.
A mostly peaceful demonstration according to a leftist: Rioting, looting and vandalizing other peoples’ property like in Seattle and Portland.
I’m sorry, who was convicted of coup again?
You asshats continue to run with that narrative. If the government wants to charge someone with insurrection, they need to prove tangible plot to actually overthrow the government. Angry people walking around an empty building protesting election result is not one of them.
According to your ilk, the CHAZ crew should be sent to the gallows, because they actually took over a city street and declared it their own nation. Armed criminals shot at Americans who trespassed on their imaginary borders.
Go in, tell me more about Donald Trump flouting the law.
Yep, with his general Big Horn Hat. Where’s my LOL emoji?
Oh cool, at least one state has taken up my idea!
https://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2025/html/HB/1400-1499/HB1484IN.htm
A solid G for every credible tip that leads to rounding up an illegal, plus another G in bounty for actually rounding them up.
Yep, time for the meme.
Oh cool, at least one state has taken up my idea!
Mississippi?! Who is sneaking in to Mississippi?
Anyway, yeah. Encouraging vigilante rounding up of minorities in Mississippi seems like a great idea. And state funded too? It will definitely help with next century’s historical markers industry.
Mississippi – The acme of legal theory.
Beep beep
I don’t know if they’re “sneaking” there. I’m pretty sure they were being escorted in government vehicles with a Joey B “I did that!” decal on the doors, and relocated there under cover of night.
JS;dr
I’d support a few other categories, but they’d be things like POWs held in the US, or interned enemy nationals in time of war.
The thing is that illegal immigrants are treated as ordinary criminals, both for illegally entering the US and for any other crimes they commit here. That puts them squarely under the ordinary civil jurisdiction of the United States. The anti-immigration hawks might call them “invaders” but I’m not buying that unless they start getting treated consistently as invaders – including in ways that the hawks might not like.
And as for originalist precedent, I believe the children of slaves illegally brought into the US were treated as citizens under the 14th.
So as much as I usually disagree with Jacob Sullum, I say he has a point here.
“And as for originalist precedent, I believe the children of slaves illegally brought into the US were treated as citizens under the 14th. ”
That WAS the sole intent of 14, to make freed men (black slaves) citizens as well as their children.
The citizenship portion of 14 outlived its purpose by at least 100 years. It was never the intent of 14 to create citizenship for anybody else.
You’re wrong. It was absolutely the intention to eliminate the entire citizenship argument of the Dred Scott decision.
It does not by any means follow, because he has all the rights and privileges of a citizen of a State, that he must be a citizen of the United States. He may have all of the rights and privileges of the citizen of a State, and yet not be entitled to the rights and privileges of a citizen in any other State.
It [The Constitution] speaks in general terms of the people of the United States, and of citizens of the several States, when it is providing for the exercise of the powers granted or the privileges secured to the citizen. It does not define what description of persons are intended to be included under these terms, or who shall be regarded as a citizen and one of the people.
The Constitution has conferred on Congress the right to establish an uniform rule of naturalization, and this right is evidently exclusive, and has always been held by this court to be so. Consequently, no State, since the adoption of the Constitution, can by naturalizing an alien invest him with the rights and privileges secured to a citizen of a State under the Federal Government, although, so far as the State alone was concerned, he would undoubtedly be entitled to the rights of a citizen, and clothed with all the rights and immunities which the Constitution and laws of the State attached to that character.
It is very clear, therefore, that no State can, by any act or law of its own, passed since the adoption of the Constitution, introduce a new member into the political community created by the Constitution of the United States. It cannot make him a member of this community by making him a member of its own.
The specifics of that case was about blacks who could be slaves in one state – and NEVER citizens in a different state. But the argument equally applies to the recent German and Irish immigrants. Who in many (most?) cases were not yet naturalized by their state of residence. And who had no intention (esp the Germans who all fled Germany because they were ‘classical liberal’ in an 1848 revolution that failed) of not having their citizenship protected by the Union which they had fought for.
3 for 3 on just utter left wing ignorant bullshit. Good work JewFree.
Illegal immigrants are not criminals for there is no federal criminal law that they broke.
Don’t you call Trump a rapist due to a civil suit? Lol.
Rape is a codified crime. Not having proper documents is not.
“…Not having proper documents is not…”
If you came here without the proper documents, you are a criminal.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Except it is.
Yes, it is.
“Willingness to Flout the Constitution …”
… along with at least fourteen other presidents since at least 1932, over more than ninety-three years. There are now an uncountable number of Federal laws and regulations over four thousand (literally: the CBO tried for over two years before they gave up and reported to Congress that they couldn’t do it) and most of them violate the Constitution through an unconstitutional expansion of the interstate commerce clause. At least ten of the sixteen current or former Federal departments are unconstitutional expansions of Federal power or exist for purposes of the administration of unconstitutional laws and regulations. It might have helped a little if the Framers had included a clause requiring the Supreme Court to review all new Federal laws or Executive Orders for Constitutionality and not allowing them to go into effect until approved in an official ruling, although the Supreme Court itself has colluded with the other two Branches or legislated from the bench unconstitutionally for most of those decades until, ever so slightly and slowly, changing course recently.
I have heard several top-notch constitutional lawyers say
you are wrong.The latest,Rob Natelson.
The mighty sullum respects only those opinions he supports. Opposing opinions must be suppressed lest the reader be confused and doubt the all-knowing sullum.
JS;dr
Reason needs better editors than the lazy pieces of shit liberaltarians they have now.
This isn’t some hidden debate. Actual libertarian sites like Mises acknowledge the question exists unlike Sullum.
This is just lazy and ignorant from sullum, as usual.
The real argument isn’t about the meaning of the 14th amendment, Senator Howard, Wong Kim Ark, any of that. The real argument is about what the true meaning of citizenship really is. Team MAGA wants to redefine citizenship to mean that it’s not really about where you were born, it’s not about what papers you have or don’t have, it is about your cultural affinity to America. If you agree with what Team MAGA declares is the correct culture for a proper American then you can be a citizen. And their definition of the correct culture is social conservatism mixed with traditional Protestant values. This is really important, because it signifies that Team MAGA does not view social conservatism as just one of many proper ways to live one’s life, but instead, they view it as *the only correct* way to be a true American citizen. All other so-called ‘citizens’ are impostors at best, traitors at worst.
So all this talk about whether children of illegal immigrants are truly “subject to the jurisdiction” of the US government is just a red herring. They were raised by illegal immigrant parents, therefore they were imbued with the wrong culture, and therefore they have to go. They can never be genuine American citizens in the eyes of Team MAGA. It doesn’t matter where they were born.
Project much?
Please cite the members of “Team MAGA” you are quoting here. You forgot to mention their names.
Says the guy who cheered when fealty pledges were coerced as a condition of prison release.
Fuck you, dude.
No, MAGA wants to make American citizenship the gift and reward that it is. We’re not looking to drag the entire concept around in shit and then applaud ourselves for making it much like everywhere else.
What did you do to earn your citizenship?
I was born here to legal citizens. Not a high bar to cross.
Giving it away to a bunch of people who lie about why they are here…not a good idea. When your FIRST action upon entering the US is to lie, you are not remotely needed.
In what way does a baby lie about why they are here? 14A applies to the baby, not the parents.
Like a lot of lefty shits, you claim knowledge you do not have.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
If you know of babies lying about their legal status, please let us know.
The parents should not have been here. They broke the law. The child can stay here in foster care without them or go with them, but they 100% should not be permitted to stay.
So you are in favor or separating families, putting kids in cages? Good to know.
I saw no mention of cages. Projection?
You’re so 2019. Ask Obama about the kids in cages. Or, just foad.
Yep, nobody could possibly just disagree with your interpretation of the amendment, it’s just MAGA and red herrings all the way.
All the historical evidence around the debate centers on full, not partial jurisdiction. Which sullum can’t wrap his head around.
Precedence is not an argument. Roe, dread Scott, chevron, and many others show Precedence is not an argument.
Sullim relies on this argument while ignoring the historical record and historical statements from the very authors of the 14th.
https://mises.org/power-market/birthright-citizenship-isnt-real
https://mailchi.mp/tomwoods/birthright?e=503752da56
The writer even said during debate he didn’t mean partial jurisdiction, but full jurisdiction.
The debate stated multiple times they did not consider the 14th to apply to those who have allegiance to other sovereign nations. Even in the Ark ruling they pointed out the parents were not under full jurisdiction as they had allegiance to China. The ark decision says the US granted them permanent residence, which is what trumps EO covers. The courts did not consider temporary or illegal residence.
The Civil Rights Act of 1866 made the distinction on jurisdiction. FDR removed the children of Mexican immigrants when they deported. Congress had to pass a separate bill for native Americans in the early 1900s.
All pieces of historical evidence and records goes against the argument that children of illegals are citizens which is why retards like sullum rely on the idea of precedence and don’t use historical evidence.
It shows the level of writers here, sullim being at the bottom.
Hey Jesse, can we discuss this civilly and drop our personal bickering?
Precedence is not an argument. Roe, dread Scott, chevron, and many others show Precedence is not an argument
Common law (also known as judicial precedent, judge-made law, or case law) is the body of law primarily developed through judicial decisions rather than statutes.[2][3] Although common law may incorporate certain statutes, it is largely based on precedent—judicial rulings made in previous similar cases.[4] The presiding judge determines which precedents to apply in deciding each new case.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law
It’s fair for Trump to challenge precedents if he thinks they were wrongly decided. They are occasionally overturned as you pointed out. But precedents are a very strong argument in a common law nation. It is the basis of our legal system.
Good point. I’m sure it will be completely ignored.
Ideas!
That is largely the point.
The precedent rulings were wrongly decided. 14A was meant to guarantee citizenship to freed slaves, and that was its sole intent. Wong Kim Arc was born to legal, permanent residents of the US, hence he was a citizen.
As somebody once said “the constitution is not a suicide pact”.
The problem is there were no precedent rulings. Ark is the closest and only held for legal permanent residents.
What you see here is Jeff being intentionally dishonest. He intentionally hides what is being done as having been ruled on, it has not. He knows this. So he lies about it.
Just because a government is doing something, doesn’t make it a constitutional precedent. Biden was actively censoring media posts, a violation of 1A. But under jeffs belief of precedence this is the new constitutional practice.
*looking around*
Has anyone seen the goal posts? They were here an hour ago.
“ In 1939, for example, the Court noted that “a child born here of alien parentage becomes a citizen of the United States.””
“In a 1982 equal protection case, the Court said “no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful.” Three years later, it acknowledged that the child of two unauthorized immigrants “was a citizen of this country” by virtue of being “born in the United States.””
Adding in the Ark decision, that’s three completely different Courts from three completely different time periods saying exactly the same thing: children born in the US are US citizens, regardless of the citizenship of their parents or the legality of their entry into the country.
And it keeps making me chuckle when you breathlessly exclaim that one guy who helped create the Amendment didn’t mean that. As if anyone who participates in the creation of any legislation, never mind a Constitutional Amendment, always gets everything they want just by saying it.
We’re all aware that your blind spots are so big your worldview is like an ad for Evony. But even for you, that’s next-level self-deception.
Both the 1939 and 1982 cases involved parents who were domiciled in the US. Who gets to define domicile? Me, that’s who!
“ Three years later, it acknowledged that the child of two unauthorized immigrants “was a citizen of this country” by virtue of being “born in the United States.””
It doesn’t get much clearer than this.
The Progressives are ok with placing caveats on an amendment that says “shall not be infringed” so why not add caveats to refine what “jurisdiction” means.
The idea that “jurisdiction” simply means subject to criminal law is pathological, leading to pathological results.
It just doesn’t make any sense. They use legal jurisdiction to imply full jurisdiction.
If you’re on a road trip and get pulled over for speeding in some small town, youre under their jurisdiction, it doesn’t mean you’re now a resident of that town. But that’s what they are arguing.
Even in the face of the records of debate which explicitly said that is not what they meant.
“If you’re on a road trip and get pulled over for speeding in some small town, you’re under their jurisdiction, it doesn’t mean you’re now a resident of that town. But that’s what they are arguing.”
Spot on analogy! That should settle it.
Not really. Because the 14th amend also has privileges and immunity clause along with the due process clause. The person pulled over for speeding has the right to procedural due process; i.e, they can contest the ticket in court. This is true if the speeder is a resident of the town, the next town over, the next state over or a foreign country.
There are court precedents on this …all of this. This whole debate on the scope of jurisdiction is made up. There isn’t a modern dispute about what jurisdiction means. Just people refusing to acknowledge the precedents because they are ignorant of them or are arguing in bad faith that they don’t exist or say or mean what they say or mean.
Its not quite sovereign citizen level of stupid; but its pretty fkn close. Hence the [Reagan appointed] judge’s exasperation that a member of the bar arguing the DOJ position to uphold the executive order had a law license at all.
Not to mention…no wait, I’m about to…
The amendment says “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens” but there’s no law that says “All persons
born or naturalizedin the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” Nor is there a law that says “All persons pulled over in this town, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.”But that’s the whole point people arguing in bad faith are missing. Citizenship isn’t the requirement. Its presence in the jurisdiction. There is no citizenship prior to birth. Mere presence within the jurisdiction entitles people to procedural due process, substantive due process, and various other constitutional protections. The made up debate is over what ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ means. And an unbroken line of precedent interpreting the same 14th amendment’s other provisions have routinely held that presence within the jurisdiction is enough to trigger constitutional protections. For citizens, non citizens, aliens, prisoners, whatever category.
So how could it be that the baby born to illegals in the US is entitled to due process, or equal protection or whatever other constitutional protection simply based on presence within the U.S. BUT NOT citizenship when these protections are derived from the same amendment? Would you not have to throw out ALL the other precedents and the rest of the amendment to get to the result that denies birthright citizenship??? I don’t think you can read jurisdiction in such a limited fashion in one single clause of the same amendment unless you are willing to do so for the rest of it. And that would be rather earth shattering. Hence, why legal trained people think its a silly argument and a fool’s errand. They are not thinking about collateral consequences of their preferred interpretation because they are not interpreting. They are results orientated. Which is what they accuse dem activist judges of doing so are being a bunch of hypocrites in addition to arguing in bad faith.
Citizenship is a privilege, not a right.
If a foreign national commits murder in America, he will be subjected to our criminal justice system as well as due process rights. This does not somehow entitle him to be a soldier in our military or a judge in our courts.
If I stole a baguette in France, I or my son have a claim to French citizenship, because I enjoy certain universal rights and protections of an accused in that country?
It’s nonsense, just like the idea that you had some constitutional right to an abortion. The SC was right to render that a legislative issue, and I should expect similar clarification on the 14th.
Bad example; the child born to illegals didn’t commit any crime even if their parents did. We don’t inherit crimes in this country. Second, we are talking about birth. Stealing a baguette doesn’t get you french citizenship; the question is whether you being born in France entitles you to French citizenship. France is a civil law country if memory serves; so doesn’t follow the English common law. But the US most definitely does and did at the relevant times leading up to the 14th amendment’s ratification (and beyond). And it was the English common law of jus solis that determined ‘place of birth’ being controlling of citizenship vs “parents citizenship determines the child’s citizenship.”
If you want the law to change; then change the amendment. You are not going to talk your way out of history, legal tradition, precedent based on that tradition, or the plain language of the amendment as it exists now. Just stop.
I don’t expect you to have any rational response
“ The idea that “jurisdiction” simply means subject to criminal law is pathological, leading to pathological results.”
The Supreme Court justices of multiple Courts are “pathological”, eh? I’m assuming you’re using the paleocon definition, which is “things that enrage me because reality disagrees with me”.
When the 14A was ratified, it covered the children of all immigrants. Thus it needs cover the children of all immigrants now.
Not based on the drafters of the 14A nor other actions required to make your claims true.
No, just one drafter. And his opinion lost.
It ensured citizenship for the future generation of slaves, who could only be considered as “immigrant” in the most cynical sense.
We kidnapped a bunch of people from somewhere else. Many years later, their kids would be effectively stateless – no connection to Africa, but can’t be declared citizens of the nation. We fought a war to end slavery first, and upon victory, the victors granted citizenship to them, and ensured that individual states couldn’t make up their own rules on that matter. 14th.
Where and when did birthright citizenship for foreign nationals become a factor in the original consideration?
When the mother rushes across the border illegally, pops out a baby onto the turf like a football, and a dude in a black and white striped shirt suddenly appears and shouts, “Citizen!” ???
Watching “conservatives” try to find restrictions in the penumbras of explicit black-letter rights and freedoms would be hilarious if it weren’t so depressing. It’s the exact same playbook used to ignore the second amendment for years.
“But this is different!”
It’s not. Spare me.
I missed the part in 2A where the right was dependent on “and subject to the well regulated Militia”.
If it did … I’m certain there would be NO-doubt that it meant being a subject of a Militia. Yet somehow you defy the exact same comprehension level because you’re literally trying to destroy that phrase completely. (VOID the US Constitution)
You know? Sometimes the absolutely strangest parts of these comment threads, the parts that makes me feel like I must come from another planet, are the ones where rather than reading and responding to an opinion, the person has just clearly made a snap decision like “this person is an ally” or “this person is an enemy” and from there they just kind of… project a bunch of positions upon that person.
I don’t even know where to start with this comment. Like, what is this response? Did TJJ2000 just decide that because I don’t like what “conservatives” are doing, and I guess he considers himself such and thus subject to my “attack”, therefore I must be the enemy, ergo “a liberal”, ergo “you defy the exact same comprehension level because you’re literally trying to destroy that phrase completely”. I defy what now? A comprehension level? I’m literally trying to do what?
Sir, are you well? Have you been hit in the head? I don’t really mind if you disagree with my fundamental premise that using mental gymnastics to avoid the plain meaning of the 14th amendment is no different than using mental gymnastics to avoid the plain meaning of the 2nd, but if you take my post as an endorsement of the sundry shenanigans that have been used to whittle down the value of the 2nd amendment over the last hundred years, then I worry for your mental acuity, seek help immediately.
I am no friend to constitutional revisionism. I abhor it in all of its forms, from all of its sources.
Penumbras! Drink!
A word utilized by the dumbest of the left when they can’t make an actual argument.
I agree completely, but I ain’t gonna play the “the constitution doesn’t really mean what it plainly says” drinking game. I’d be dead within minutes of watching modern political discourse.
But it does not “clearly” say that. That is why there is a debate.
It absolutely says that. Clearly and unambiguously, with multiple Supreme Coyrt decisions around it. Particularly the “jurisdiction” part, since that has much wider applications than just citizenship.
There isn’t a debate. There’s a bunch of paleocon xenophobia, drunk on their political victories, trying to force everyone to deny reality because they don’t like it.
This is why I’m not particularly concerned about the long-term ramifications of Trumpism. Because its foundation is a denial of reality and a comfort with bullying people to act the way they want, it will have no relevance once Trump leaves office. Possibly sooner, if their behavior repulses enough voters by the midterms.
Plessy v Ferguson could make a similar statement.
It was also wrong.
When dozens of USSC cases in multiple areas of law all get overturned, then come talk to me.
Why you think the fact that a small number of Supreme Court cases have been overturned is relevant is beyond me. Look up non-sequitur to see why you’re an idiot.
It plainly states that … requirements are:
1) OR
– born
– naturalized
2) *** AND ***
– subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
(not subjected too; subject of)
The only drinking debate going on is those who insist #2 doesn’t exist.
No you’ll play the game of misusing the word plainly to push a liberal narrative.
Plainly is not what you think it means based on the evidence and comments from the drafters of the 14A.
You seem to think plainly means whatever ignorant thing you believe.
Why you have not formed an informed or logical argument and just declare your interpretation to be correct. An action often used by the dumbest of people who have never bothered to find evidence for their accepted beliefs.
“ Plainly is not what you think it means based on the evidence and comments from the drafters of the 14A.”
One drafter. You obviously think this is some sort of winning argument, since you keep saying it. I could reference the opinion of people who drafted laws, but whose opinion failed to prevail in the final legislation. But I don’t because that would be idiotic, like congratulating the Buffalo Bills on getting to the Super Bowl.
Democrats did it first? We all know what that means.
Ideas!
Willingness To Flout the Constitution…
Is entirely being done by those insisting “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is VOID of any meaning.
Talk about Self-Projection.
You’ve got the very author saying “Of course; it doesn’t include illegal immigrants.”
And the CRA 1866 (14A very premise) stating: not subjects of a foreign power.
You can blow-hole all you want.
Only a F’En self-serving, deceitful and manipulative idiot would pretend otherwise.
You can see the tell when sites like MSNBC and CNN remove that portion of the 14th and insert ellipses, which they have done multiple times.
“Willingness to Flout the Constitution”
More like “willingness to have SCOTUS put up or shut up about who gets to define what ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ means”.
And if SCOTUS says “Nah, you can’t do that.” it won’t be the first or last time SCOTUS says “Mr. President, your order is unconstitutional. ”
Ask Obama, I think no one got slapped down 9-0 more times than he did. Not a lot of talk about his “Willingness to Flout the Constitution” at the time.
It’s not okay because Democrats did it first (was probably Whigs that did it first). It’s the process. It’s not worth the breathless hysteria media throws out just because Trump is the one that did it.
Sometimes a President gets a crazy idea that words like ‘well-regulated’ or ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ means he can do something he wants to do. Sometimes SCOTUS says he’s right, sometimes SCOTUS says he’s wrong.
I’ll go one further: If SCOTUS finds against Trump, I doubt there will be calls to expand the court.
SCOTUS will prolly deny standing to anyone who tries to bring it to them. Only an infant born after the relevant date and under the jurisdiction of… can challenge.
It’s how they avoid controversy or having to decide something they don’t like.
Not if Trump starts deporting anchor babies. Somebody gonna squeal.
Interesting take on how even the commonly accepted meaning of ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ is not even upheld, such that Dept. State hands out US citizenship to children of foreign diplomats.
https://americanlegaljournal.com/subject-to-the-jurisdiction-thereof/
Though there has been a lot of debate in recent decades about what Congress intended by including the “subject to the jurisdiction” language and, subsequently, who should automatically be considered a U.S. citizen at birth, there is agreement among all sides of the debate that, in the least, children born to foreign diplomats are not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and should not be receiving U.S. passports upon birth.
It turns out that even this narrow interpretation of the Citizenship Clause is failing to be properly applied by the State Department as it hands out U.S. passports.
There’s no evidence Congress contemplated any of this when writing the 14th Amendment. But through bureaucratic, administrative policymaking, an unpublished court ruling, and a couple of INS commissioner decisions involving children of Chinese diplomats in 1965 and 1972, everyone born on U.S. soil is now treated by the executive branch as a legal permanent resident at birth, and all can eventually obtain U.S. citizenship.
Interesting and shows how the execution of powers and rules are often ignored for whatever reason. Ignoring this does not create the precedence Sullum relies on.
You imagine the shit-stain Sullum relies on anything other than his raging case of TDS?
If the children born in the U.S. to diplomats are receiving U.S. Passports, those passport applications are fraudulent, and the U.S. passport issued subject to revocation because the passport holder is not a U.S. citizen. The correct documentation for these children is a green card.
Fine. The geographically incidental spawn of illegal invaders are citizens. But their parents, older siblings, and the rest of the clan are not.
The infants can stay. But everyone else goes.
That’s what I said about “Dreamers”. They can stay–I have compassion for the circumstances that they as children had no control over–but the parents get deported. They (dreamers) are adults now after all, so deporting mommy and/or daddy will not be a huge hardship.
And if IS a huge hardship…they do not HAVE to stay. They can also go.
Sullum proves, once again, to be a slimy pile of TDS-addled shit.
Get reamed with a barb-wire wrapped broomstick, asswipe, and then fuck off and die.
“The order notes that the 14th Amendment “has never been interpreted to extend citizenship universally to everyone born within the United States.” But according to an 1898 Supreme Court decision, there are just two exceptions that remain legally relevant: children of foreign diplomats and “children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation.”
Which is it? Does it extend to everyone or is there exceptions? Ifs there is exceptions, then why cant there be more? Clearly the 14th was intended to refer to slaves, not visitors, certainly not trespassers.
However, this is easily solved by congress. Amend the constution to make it clear that only those born TO citizens or permanent residents, are citizens at birth.
One of the lesser known details of the children born in the U.S. to foreign diplomats, and thus not subject U.S. jurisdiction and not born as U.S. citizens, is that they are considered born as a U.S. Lawful Permanent Residents instead of U.S. citizens.
The way that process works is U.S. Birth Certificate of the diplomat’s newborn child is submitted to USCIS with an application for a green card, together of course with evidence of the parent’s immunity status denying the child U.S. citizenship and subject to U.S. immigration laws, including alien registration. Usually this provides sufficient legal status for the child as they grow up in the U.S. Of course, diplomats usually get reassigned or recalled eventually, unless they resign, and when the child leaves the U.S. permanently with the parents, then green card status is lost as usual.
The point of this discussion is even if the children born in the U.S. to undocumented immigrants are not U.S. citizens, that would not mean that they are born without legal status in the U.S. Being born is in every aspect legally equivalent to being lawfully inspected and admitted for permanent residence.
Illegal aliens are alien enemies. See ya!
If illegal immigrants are subject to the jurisdiction of the US, their US-born kids are citizens. This is obviously unacceptable to MAGA world.
If illegal immigrants are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, the US has no power to arrest them, convict them for crimes, etc. Obviously this too is unacceptable.
But as there’s no such thing as partial jurisdiction, you have to choose one unacceptable outcome over the other. (Ths is why on the VC comments, some of the Trump supporters would not commit to or accept any definition of jurisdiction because as long as it’s not defined there is no outcome to accept.)
Obviously the correct approach is to propose a constitutional amendment. Executive fiats are not the solution, constitutionally or otherwise.
If we allow you in, it is under OUR rules. If you violate OUR rules, you’re tossed.
Consider it being trespassed.
So you’re saying that illegal immigrants are subject to the jurisdiction of the US? Or do you think the US can’t deport illegal immigrants because they aren’t subject to the jurisdiction of the US?
They are mutually exclusive, so you only get to choose one. Personally I think illegal immigrants should be deported. But that means children born to them here are citizens. I’m OK with that because, in addition to being an unabashed supporter of the Constitution, I think that illegal immigration shouldn’t be condoned.
Paleocons seem to struggle with this. It’s not that hard a concept, though.
If you believe in America and the Constitution that defines our laws, you have to reject illegal immigrants and accept their citizen children.
And since the children can’t care for themselves (and you REALLY don’t want to open up the can of worms marked “The Government Can Eject Citizens From The Country Against Their Will”), the parents have to stay until their children are 18.
I don’t have a problem blackballing illegals from naturalization (or any other path to citizenship). Hell, we could institute a system where each year a citizen child’s parents live in the US, they earn one demerit. Anyone with 18 demerits can never become a US citizen and is automatically deported on their child’s 18th birthday.
From a labor pool perspective, we would get their prime working years and Social Security contributions without having to pay out. So like the present situation, but with millions in tax revenue and FICA contributions.
Just as much as a guest in your house is subject to your parental jurisdiction.
I am hoping you’re smarter than this.
You’re the idiot who thinks the clearly established legal definition of jurisdiction (as ruled on in many areas of law, not just in regards to birthright citizenship) is in any kind of doubt.
Yes. So illegal immigrants are under OUR rules, and under those rules, if their children are born here, they’re US citizens.
That’s territorial jurisdiction the amendment is about personal jurisdiction.
^THIS +1000000000 Well Said.
illegal immigrants are … obviously … NOT subjects of the jurisdiction (US) because they are subjects of their home nation.
If they are not subject to US jurisdiction, the US cannot punish them for crimes committed on US soil. Duh. Is that really your position? Of course not.
What you want, clearly, is for the US to be able to punish them despite their not being under US jurisdiction. But by definition this is ultra vires. And we know how much you hate when the government exceeds its lawful authority.
That is EXACTLY being ‘subjected to’ NOT ‘subject of’.
I am not a ‘subject’ of your family just because I’m ‘subjected to’ your holiday.
Duh….
It’s lawful authority is PRECISELY to…
“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion”
Its lawful authority isn’t to grant citizenship to every invader.
Good grief; how much corruption do you expect me to buy?
If you really cared to have any honorable clarity on the subject there’s a CRA Act and the very Authors speech publicly available.
This is just your invented distinction. There is jurisdiction, plain and simple.
And the US jurisdiction (Supreme Law/US Constitution) doesn’t apply to foreigners.
…because they’re NOT US Citizens but instead citizens of some other jurisdiction.
You don’t get to claim ‘home’ wherever you decide to hang your hat.
Shrike weighs in again with his misunderstanding of terminology. Seems to be a theme for leftists.
If the illegal immigrant parents leave the US and find work in another country, do they owe US taxes? Can they use US embassies on foreign travel? They arent even eligible, except due to fraud, for common programs citizens recieve. So they aren’t under full jurisdiction.
I would go a little further and say misunderstanding and even redefining terminology tends to occur on all sides of the political spectrums.
So, your “both sides” argument, lame as it is, requires a SCOTUS ruling. Thanks for playing!
That isn’t what jurisdiction is. That’s citizenship. The only people who have to pay US taxes for income made working abroad are citizens. Jurisdiction is much, much broader than that and applies in many, many other non-immigration-connected legal realms.
I guarantee you wouldn’t like what would happen in every other area of law if jurisdiction is redefined merely to scratch your xenophobic itch.
Citizenship is a privilege, just like driving. The fact that mere presence in a territory triggers certain right regardless of legal status dies but afford him privileges.
If an illegal Brit is accused a crime here, he has due process rights. But we can’t draft him and make him fight in our wars.
“ But we can’t draft him and make him fight in our wars.”
That’s because we can only do that to US citizens. Children of non-citizens born in the US are Us citizens. Therefore, being able to draft someone has nothing to do with being under the jurisdiction of the US. It’s not that hard to understand, in fact there are many Supreme Court cases that firmly establish what jurisdiction is.
So your standard (that the only citizens are people under the jurisdiction of the US) is pretty transparently wrong.
That ‘and’ condition in the 14A means something no matter how hard you try to destroy it with your own self-serving contradictive thought patterns.
And there’s a CRA Act and floor speech from the very author if you had any honorable notion to build evidence for you cause. Instead you just insist your own self-serving ignorance gets to VOID that ‘and’ condition and pretend it doesn’t exist.
“So they aren’t under full jurisdiction.”
I’ll quote Senator Trumbull, who you love to reference from the legislative debate over the meaning of the 14th Amendment: “[…] Does the Government of the United States pretend to take jurisdiction of murders and robberies and other crimes committed by one Indian upon another? Are they subject to our jurisdiction in any just sense? They are not subject to our jurisdiction. We do not exercise jurisdiction over them. It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens […]”
So yeah, jurisdiction means exactly what most people know and not what you wish it was.
You’re trying to pretend “subject*ed* to” (past-tense verb) is the same as “subject of” (future-tense noun-adjective).
https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/eb/qa/subject-to-and-subjected-to
The subtle difference is…
– ‘subject to’ (adj) implies that the job applicants must undergo scrutiny (THAT IS NOT an already happened past-tense muster).
– ‘subjected to’ (verb) emphasizes the fact that the job applicants *were* the direct objects of past-tense scrutiny.
Humorously. Illegal Immigrants ‘weren’t’ even subjected to past-tense scrutiny by US Law or they wouldn’t be here.
>The executive order contradicts the 14th Amendment and 127 years of judicial precedent.
I’m wondering Sullum, how upset were you when Biden and Obama did it?
How upset were you when Biden tried to ‘forgive’ student loans, was comprehensively slapped down by the USSC, and then went back to do it again, openly claiming that he knew it would be struck down by the courts but that he has a few months grace to try to make it work?
Trump’s flying a trial balloon – if its unconstitutional then it’ll just be put on hold by the courts (as it already has been) and then the USSC will weigh in on the matter.
What are you scared of Sullum? Do you not have faith in our precious democratic insitutions? Are you anti-democratic?
“ How upset were you when Biden tried to ‘forgive’ student loans, was comprehensively slapped down by the USSC, and then went back to do it again”
If I remember correctly, he was opposed. As was I, and everyone outside of the Democratic partisans like Jeff. Probably because it was rotten from head to tail.
“ Do you not have faith in our precious democratic insitutions?”
I have to agree with you here, as well. The don’t always get it right, but between the really high initial “got it right” cases and the “shit, we got it wrong but we’re fixing that” cases, our democratic institutions are very, very good at ending up in the right place. There are very few situation like abortion where the right thing got replaced by the wrong thing. And even there I have faith that abortion will be unambiguously legal through at least 20 weeks eventually.
So I agree with you that our democratic institutions will get it right. (And yes, I realize you were being sarcastic. Hence the way I answered.).
Damn, even Nelson dunks on Jeff.
Jeff is as much of a zealot as the paleocons, just in the other direction. I have no patience for mindless sycophants.
>Even if it were allowed to take effect, Trump’s order would have a gradual, forward-looking effect, applying only to children born on or after February 19. It would be far less immediately consequential than his other immigration initiatives,
I get that the horse has already bolted – but its a good idea to go back and close the barn door anyway.
Trump has moved the Overton Window. People are now considering whether birthright citizenship is a good idea or not, and if not should it be changed. Changing will probably require an amendment, but don’t be surprised if such an attempt is made.
No, only the lunatic fringe of MAGAworld is considering that. Even James Ho, himself a right-fringe judge, disagrees with it.
The amendment itself literally has the ‘and’ requirement in it.
Why in the world would it require another amendment.
100 different ways to say the same thing?
The 14th Amendment lifted the ‘under the jurisdiction of’ from the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which defined the phrase as ‘not subject to a foreign power.’
The phrase was further defined in the 1872 Slaughter – House ruling as not applying to children born of diplomats and their staff. In 1898 an American born Chinese Wong Ark was ruled a citizen because he was born in the US, but the court further stated the ruling only applied to children ‘born of lawful permanent residents.’
At a minimum the phrase can be seen as possibly ambiguous. If we accept earlier rulings, then it could be seen as not applying to children born of tourists or illegal immigrants.
It is only ‘obvious’ to those wanting to shut down disagreement.
There were cases in the 1930s and 1980s that also unambiguously declared children of non-permanent non-citizens (including, and specifically referenced, children of illegal immigrants).
So no, it isn’t ambiguous. Jurisdiction has a well-established, clear legal meaning with rulings in many areas of law outside of the confines of birthright citizenship. Multiple Supreme Court rulings support the children of illegal immigrants being citizens.
Your manufactured controversy is nonsense. Build a bridge and get over it.
I’d say the Ark case provides the most reasonable and obvious interpretation. If you’re here and in the legal process of becoming a citizen then you can confer citizenship to your child.
I’m not of the opinion that I need to let the neighbor’s dog keep shitting in my yard or that the shits it takes are mine to deal with. I’m taking actions against my dickhead neighbor for opening the gate and encouraging his dog to shit on my grass.
I’m pretty sure Ark wasn’t in the legal process of becoming a citizen, but his child was still a citizen. Plus, of course, there was no mention of a caveat about the parents seeking citizenship. That’s all you talking.
If you prefer, there is a Supreme Court case that specifically says the children of illegal immigrants are citizens. Rage at the wind all you want, it doesn’t make you any less wrong.
If you look at the facts closely in Ark…his parents were not citizens and had returned to China. The case refers to them repeatedly as subjects of the Emperor of China (though recognizing at the time of Ark’s birth they were domiciled here and ran a business). He went to China to visit them and upon his return to the US he was denied re-entry because of the Chinese Exclusion Acts. He was suing over the denial of his re-entry.
And of course he won because by its plain terms, the 14th amendment granted him citizenship upon his birth here and a US citizen was not subject to the Chinese Exclusion Acts.
Note to Sollum: If someone enters the US illegally, they should be deported and not welcomed with open arms, a bottle of champagne and roses.
Now if the alien comes to our country legally, and goes through the citizenship process, then the foreigner will be welcomed.
Only a first-class moron would welcome illegal aliens.
“ Note to Sollum: If someone enters the US illegally, they should be deported and not welcomed with open arms, a bottle of champagne and roses.”
Absolutely. 100% agreement here.
“ Now if the alien comes to our country legally, and goes through the citizenship process, then the foreigner will be welcomed.”
Theoretically they would be welcomed. Historically, not so much. But on the theory? Absolutely. 100% agreement here.
I feel like there should be more. What point are you trying to make?
“But according to an 1898 Supreme Court decision, there are just two exceptions that remain legally relevant: children of foreign diplomats and “children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation.””
False.
1. You forgot to explain Indians. Indians were not included in that clause, because they were subject to a quasi foreign power. If you actually go and read the history, you will see why the example of Indians is important. They all agreed that “jurisdiction” here meant a “full and complete” jurisdiction that excluded those “subject to a foreign power” or who had “allegiance to anyone else.” Those are their words, the words of the drafters and ratifiers. This type of jurisdiction is the kind that includes being subject to the military draft. They all agreed that “jurisdiction” excluded foreigners subject to a foreign power, and they debated whether the language was sufficient to exclude Indians by the same logic, given that they were only “quasi” foreign.
2. See e.g. Slaughterhouse Cases, Elk v. Wilkins, US v. Elm, commentary by Joseph Story, etc etc.
3. WKA’s holding applied to “domiciled” persons i.e. lawful permanent residents.
4. Here’s an article focusing on the WKA holding. Part II.C. here: https://static.heritage.org/legal-and-judicial/birthright-citizenship/Law%20Review%20Final%20Print.pdf
She summarized that part of the article in a tweet: https://x.com/AmySwearer/status/1881857640835224049
“I address Wong Kim Ark at length in the law review article, but the tl;dr is that the holding is quite narrow – the U.S.-born children of lawfully present and permanently domiciled aliens are citizens. Two important things to note: (1) The Chinese Exclusion Acts at the time prevented Chinese immigrants from becoming naturalized citizens. Ever. Wong Kim Ark’s parents had no legal manner of obtaining citizenship, which created a class of permanent lawful residents who were relegated to perpetual alien status based on race alone – not just for them, but for generations of subsequent U.S.-born descendants who’d have absolutely no allegiance to any nation except the US, where they were born, lived, and died. This almost identically parallels the plight of the U.S.-born descendants of African slaves after Dred Scott, which was precisely the thing the CRA and 14th Amendment were concerned with undoing. (2) The Wong Kim Ark Court at every opportunity emphasizes the lawful and permanent domicile of his parents at the time of his birth, something that is utterly irrelevant if it truly understood the 14th Amendment to adopt common law jus soli, as advocates for universal birthright citizenship today contend. If that were the case, the Court’s entire analysis would have ended with “he was born on U.S. and his parents were not diplomats.””
“You forgot to explain Indians. Indians were not included in that clause, because they were subject to a quasi foreign power”
The third category of Indians has become irrelevant due to Indians being given US citizenship through legislation in 1924. Try to keep up.
Also, here’s a quote from Senator Trumbull (who you xenophobes like to reference as a voice against the accurate interpretation of jurisdiction):
“ […] Does the Government of the United States pretend to take jurisdiction of murders and robberies and other crimes committed by one Indian upon another? Are they subject to our jurisdiction in any just sense? They are not subject to our jurisdiction. We do not exercise jurisdiction over them. It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens […]”
Even Trumbull thinks being subject to our laws is “completely within our jurisdiction”.
Also, there were two other cases in the 1930s and 1980s that agree with birthright citizenship, including a specific reference to children of illegal immigrants being citizens.
No amount of Heritage manure can make your gross flower grow.
“The third category of Indians has become irrelevant due to Indians being given US citizenship through legislation in 1924. Try to keep up.”
It’s irrelevant with respect to its application Indians born today. It’s incredibly relevant, however, to explaining the original 1868 meaning of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”
“Also, here’s a quote from Senator Trumbull . . . ”
You evidently failed to understand what you are quoting. Trumbull was explaining that Indians, when within their territories, are not generally subject to most laws. This shows that they are “quasi foreign” as Howard put it. Therefore, Indians (those who maintained tribal relations with a sovereign tribe) were subject to a foreign power, and thus were not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the U.S. When traveling outside their territories, however, they would of course be generally subject to US laws. But they still would not be “subject to the jurisdiction” of the US, because what mattered was that they maintained tribal relations with a quasi foreign entity.
“ You evidently failed to understand what you are quoting. Trumbull was explaining that Indians, when within their territories, are not generally subject to most laws”
Apparently you failed to understand. He literally equated being subject to our laws (as all inside the US, except diplomats, are) and being completely within our jurisdiction. It’s not that hard to misinterpret unless you really, really want to gaslight everyone about a clearly established legal/Constitutional principle like what jurisdiction means.
Also, note that the narrow interpretation that you desperately want to resurrect was debated and lost in the 1800s. It was rejected. It was denied.
No it doesn’t Jacob. It flouts the language, attempting to accomplish something any rational person would agree with, while maintaining the intent.
Any rational effort to defend this language, should come right along with an argument that the Second Amendment is infringed by every single gun control legislation in place and proposed. Anything else is more than PURE HYPOCRISY!
This is the question supporters of anchor babies (looking at you Reason) never answer. Let’s say, we are going to update the 14th amemendment. Say, let’s start from scratch so the meaning is more clear? Would we allow for anchor babies? If you would, what is your justification?
If illegal aliens are really under the jurisdiction of the US then Trump should simply draft them and send them to Ukraine to fight on both sides or whatever brushfire war pops up in Africa, anywhere but here. Problem solved.
And if they aren’t, then how could José Antonio Ibarra be prosecuted for killing Laken Riley?
The 14th Amendment was not about immigration, naturalization or establishing “birthright citizenship” as the law of the land. The 14th was drafted specifically to overturn Dred Scott and give full rights to black Americans who were denied that on the basis that they were not “citizens”. The drafters faced a catch 22 however in that if they restricted the 14th to children born in the US of “citizens” they would have been right back where they started because the entire point of Dred Scott was that black slaves were not citizens. So they instead chose the term “subject to jurisdiction” because that was certain to sweep up loyal, multi-generational black families under the current understanding of the naturalization laws authorized by Congress.
At that time, the concept of illegal alien was not known, however we DO know per Senator Howard’s comments in the Congressional Record the “subject to the jurisdiction” excluded foreigners (travelers and traders), aliens (residents but not citizens), and diplomats (here on official business for another nation). This makes sense when you consider that the 1790 naturalization law required 2 year residency, no criminal record and an oath of loyalty to the United States, so the idea of an alien (friendly or hostile) was well understood and loyalty was the key. Don’t forget that tens of thousands of multi-generational “American born” people were expropriated and sent packing because they were loyalists to King George III after the American Revolutionary War.
. This, in turn, ties right into Ark, which emphasized that the parents of the child in question were long time permanent residents in good standing. In other words, they effectively fulfilled the requirements of being citizens. All this prior to 20th century immigration laws, but it is safe to assume that green card holders might arguably be an analogy.
What we know for sure about the 14th Amendment was that (a) it was targeted first and foremost on making multi-generational black Americans full citizens and (b) there were logical exceptions to the “birthright” rule based upon the then understanding of the term “subject to the jurisdiction”. Narrow “plain language” constructions that limit that exceptions to a baby born on the grounds of the French embassy quickly fall apart when faced with numerous examples such as foreign invaders. Even foreign diplomats are subject to basic “jurisdiction” for police powers. The more convincing reading is that “subject to jurisdiction” read in the general understanding of the time meant someone who fulfilled the basic requirements of naturalized citizenship. Even the most ardent supporters of the 2nd Amendment don’t argue that “arms” as understood in the 18th century now encompasses explosive drones and rocket launchers, even though the modern usage of the term would include (as well as tanks and battleships).
At that time, the concept of illegal alien was not known, however we DO know per Senator Howard’s comments in the Congressional Record the “subject to the jurisdiction” excluded foreigners (travelers and traders), aliens (residents but not citizens), and diplomats (here on official business for another nation).
Maybe you can quote Sen. Howard saying those words. Judge Ho also examines the statements of Sen. Howard and others in his 2006 op-ed, and he reaches the opposite conclusion that you did. I linked to that article below if you’re interested in reading it and replying to his analysis.
Or just quote the very author of the 14A, “Of course, it doesn’t include illegal immigrants”
…because such a notion is just stupid.
Russia gets to ‘claim’ new born babies of US citizens as their own just because tourists gave birth on vacation?
Nice try Jacob. The courts have never ruled on birthright citizenship for illegal aliens and the opinion in Wong supports a ban since it discusses legal residence. Additionally the Legislature has never passed a law authorizing it either. BC was implemented by the bureaucracy and now it is being suspended by the bureaucracy.
Reason writers are most likely upset not because they believe it’s unconstitutional but because it restricts immigration. Why don’t you just be honest and write articles that say that.
Try or not, court ruling or not, the plain language of the amendment says “All persons born… and… subject to.” Jus soli is not even practiced in Europe, Africa, Australia, or Asia.
Jus soli is not even practiced in Europe, Africa, Australia, or Asia.
So what? Are you saying that the meaning of the U.S. Constitution depends on what other countries do?
Only when it supports their priors. Otherwise they’re all Marxist Commie socialists who want to destroy America with their woke ideology.
Did they not have, or think about, immigrants in 1868? It would be impossible not to have understood their own words when writing the 14th Amendment. They had negroes on their mind … who were not citizens. They didn’t think of Irishmen, Germans, or Dutchmen? Were these men that stupid as to misunderstand “All persons born…”?
Exactly. They understood very well that the words of the 14th Amendment would apply to the children of immigrants. Some of those that argued against including that language and/or against passing it in Congress and sending it to the states for ratification used that as a reason to oppose it. And that is because they knew it would at least be argued that it would apply to the children of Chinese immigrants.
As Judge Ho quotes in a 2006 op-ed:
But in fact, proponents and opponents of birthright citizenship alike consistently interpreted the [Civil Rights] Act [of 1866], just as they did the Fourteenth Amendment, to cover the children of aliens. In one exchange, [Senator] Cowan, in a preview of his later opposition to the Howard text, “ask[ed] whether [the Act] will not have the effect of naturalizing the children of Chinese and Gypsies born in this country?” Trumbull replied: “Undoubtedly. … [T]he child of an Asiatic is just as much a citizen as the child of a European.”
And this was one of the most important points of birthright citizenship. No one had been questioning whether the children of white European immigrants were citizens of the United States upon birth. Making citizenship dependent upon what racial, ethnic, or national group the parents of a child belonged to would allow a majority to deny citizenship arbitrarily to any group that they didn’t want participating equally in society, especially denying them their right to participate in choosing the government.
Read Ho’s article and it is especially valuable to read United States v. Wong Kim Ark, the precedent established over 100 years ago that Trump wants overturned. It is also important to understand that it was intentionally set up as a test case to deny those born in the U.S. to Chinese immigrants re-entry to the U.S. after being abroad temporarily. The federal attorney that argued for the federal government at a habeas corpus hearing where Ark sought relief to reenter the U.S. said this: [bold emphasis added]
Because the said Wong Kim Ark, although born in the city and county of San Francisco, state of California, United States of America, is not, under the laws of the state of California and of the United States, a citizen thereof, the mother and father of the said Wong Kim Ark being Chinese persons, and subjects of the emperor of China, and the said Wong Kim Ark being also a Chinese person, and a subject of the emperor of China.
Because the said Wong Kim Ark has been at all times, by reason of his race, language, color, and dress, a Chinese person, and now is, and for some time last past has been, a laborer by occupation.
That the said Wong Kim Ark is not entitled to land in the United States, or to be or remain therein, because he does not belong to any of the privileged classes enumerated in any of the acts of congress, known as the ‘Chinese Exclusion Acts,’ which would exempt him from the class or classes which are especially excluded from the United States by the provisions of the said acts.
Trump and the crowd opposed to birthright citizenship are running off a 130-year old playbook, drawn up by people whose goal was to marginalize Chinese immigrants and their descendants born on U.S. soil, that would proceed to grow up and spend their lives working, starting businesses, and having children of their own, all in the United States. Pretending that they would have allegiance to China rather than the United States? Well, they could have been tempted to do so, if Americans would insist on treating them as unwanted foreigners in the land of their birth.
The same can be said of the children born here to “illegal immigrants” in the present. If a (mostly white) majority constantly shows them nothing but hostility and prejudice, it might be rational for them to feel no allegiance to the U.S., where they were born. Maybe that is the goal here: Make it a self-fulfilling argument to say that they aren’t “real” Americans that love this country.
Trump is trying to habituate people to the concept that he is above the Constitution — the long game is probably to change the Const so that he can have 3 terms or he will ignore the Const and just stay in office.
with Hehseth the head of the military and with “rubber stamp Thune” the majority leader in the Senate, are YOU going to stop Trump?
Or maybe trying to show the people Trump actually knows how to read.
As-if his executive order didn’t go into detail about WORDS in the Constitution specifically.
No, it redefined the words in the Constitution by claiming dozens of Supreme Court decisions defining jurisdiction didn’t exist.
Do you think the Supreme Court wrote the US Constitution?
You’re literally pedestal’ing Judicial Activism.
No, but they literally are the ones whose rulings define its meaning.
And reading the plain text of the Constitution isn’t judicial activism. What you are advocating for, though, is absolutely judicial activism.
The plain text has an ‘and’ condition.
The plain text author specifically stated it did not include immigrants.
The plain text the plain text was based on specifically state “not a subject of foreign power”.
You’ve got no ‘plain text’ to sit on.
Short of cherry-picking out-of-context phrases (ignoring/ignorance).
And when those who make ‘rulings’ that defy ‘its meaning’ (the very author and CRA clears that up) that is called judicial activism.
Like I said.
You’re literally pedestal’ing Judicial Activism.
An amendment affirming the citizenship of former slaves has been applied to any person whose mother gave birth here, even birth tourists.
Seems like a stretch to me.
Jacob has got THAT exactly backward.
The 14th amendment does NOT grant citizenship to absolutely anyone born within USA borders. That was an ‘interpretation’ added by a court many years later.
You can support the ruling, or not. But you cannot say that absolute birthright citizenship lies in the 14th amendment. It does not. It lies in a court ruling. That means other courts can find against it. And they will.
“ That was an ‘interpretation’ added by a court many years later.”
Yes, because that’s what the Supreme Court does. Literally. They interpret the Constitution. The fact that multiple Courts over the course of over 100 years have interpreted the plain text of the Constitution exactly the same way should give you a clue as to how insane your opposition to birthright citizenship is.
Unless you’re one of those people who thinks the Constitution is merely a list of vague suggestions instead of the foundation of our legal system?
Correction.
“Unless you’re one of those people who thinks the” … SCOTUS often does judicial activism and doesn’t read for meaning the “Constitution” at all.
Now.. Which way would you say the SCOTUS history has gone?
They’ve been perfect little angels at honorably interpreting the Supreme Law of the Land or have been corrupt hellions raising an UN-Constitutional Nazi-Empire?
If you were looking for ‘meaning’ in the Constitution there is the CRA of 1866 and the Authors floor speech. You’re NOT looking for Constitutional meaning – you’re looking at judicial activism.
Native Americans were not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” because they owed allegiance to their sovereign tribes. So surely the other prong of Trump’s EO could take effect: no child of foreign passport holdera gets birthright citizenship, because they owe allegiance to the sovereign who issued the passport.
There is no such thing as “settled law”. Courts have reversed prior law continuously throughout U.S. history and language has been reinterpreted depending on the political beliefs of judges and the ruling class. The Supreme Court shifts to meet the prevailing ideology so as to prevent its being either ignored or irrelevant. Besides, even the writers of the 14th Amendment stated that it didn’t apply to foreigners or aliens.
AMAZING how a person who thinks of himself as rational and reasonable confuses an immigrant with an ILLEGAL trespasser and bases his following logic on his on confusion.
Quoting the court on legal immigrants and pretending it applies to ILLEGAL aliens is either a big error in logic or judgement OR he is gaslighting us!
WHY does he want all these unvetted illegal aliens?
Why is he not promoting MORE legal immigration??
Not a lot to respect in this misleading article.
There is a serious problem with the contention that settled constitutional says that Trump’s re-definition of birthright citizenship is unconstitutional. The guiding law on the subject is the Ark Decision of 1898, in which an American-born son of long-term non-citizen Chinese parents was found to be covered by 14A’s grant. However, in that case, the Court found that the essential element of “being subject to the jurisdiction of the USA” was that Ark had been subject to the protection of and his allegiance to the USA. That condition was because his parents were brought to the USA and living here legally.
This situation is not present in the children of people who crossed the border or entered the USA illegally.
Article 5 permits the Congress to enforce the terms of 14A. It is probably more likely that the SCOTUS would permit the Trump EO than disallow it, but a congressional act changing it would certainly be far likelier to succeed.