Putin and the Ayatollah Wanted To Censor This App. Now It's Macron's Turn.
French police arrested Telegram founder Pavel Durov for failing to control his social media and messaging app.

Telegram is one of the last (mostly) uncensored frontiers of the internet. The messaging app allows users to message each other through both unencrypted and encrypted chats, and to create "channels" that other users can subscribe to. There's no feed with an algorithm to manipulate, and founder Pavel Durov has committed to never sharing user information with authorities.
That has made Durov a lot of enemies. A decade ago, Durov fled Russia after his previous social media company, VKontakte, was taken over by the government. (Since then, he spent most of his time in Dubai and obtained French citizenship in 2021.) Russia banned Durov's newer app Telegram in 2018 but then unblocked the app two years later. Countries like China and Iran have also banned Telegram.
Over the weekend, French authorities arrested Durov at the airport for complicity in fraud, drug trafficking, cyberbullying, organized crime, and promotion of terrorism. The French office in charge of combating crimes against children said that it had requested the arrest warrant for Telegram's "lack of moderation and cooperation" in the fight against "pedocriminality."
Durov's lawyer called it "absolutely ridiculous" to blame an app's founder for the behavior of users, comparing the arrest of Durov to "blaming a car manufacturer, some giant auto concern, for the fact that its cars are used for criminal purposes." Telegram said—in a statement on its official Telegram channel—that its "moderation is within industry standards" and that Durov has "nothing to hide."
The French case against Telegram resembles the U.S. case against Backpage, an online classified ad service that was shut down in 2018. Authorities insinuated that Backpage staff were failing to stop sex traffickers on the platform but never charged any of them with sex trafficking, instead convicting co-founder Michael Lacey with a single banking violation.
French President Emmanuel Macron denied that there was any "political decision" behind Durov's arrest. Inside Russia, however, members of both the opposition and the government saw Durov's arrest as an obvious attack on Telegram's independence. Human rights lawyer Dmitry Zair-Bek said that Europe "is declaring war not only on Telegram and its team but also freedom of speech and secrecy of correspondence as a whole."
Russian President Vladimir Putin "was a pioneer," Libertarian Party of Russia leader Mikhail Svetov stated sarcastically in an essay on Durov's arrest. "He set an example for the rest of the Western political class with his censorship, destruction of privacy, and surveillance. It turns out that the West was simply trailing behind."
Russia attempted to ban Telegram in 2018, then gave up and unblocked the app in 2020. Today, many government supporters in Russia use the app for their own propaganda. While the Russian government accused France of "double standards" around free speech for its targeting of Telegram, former President Dmitry Medvedev gloated that Durov had "miscalculated" by fleeing Russia.
"Once, a long time ago, I asked Durov why he wouldn't cooperate with [Russian] law enforcement to solve serious crimes," Medvedev said. "'This is my principled position,' he said. 'In that case, you'll face serious problems in any country,' I told him."
Durov's experience with Iran, however, may have taught him that cooperation with governments only invites more censorship. In December 2017, amid unrest in Iran, Telegram agreed to censor an Iranian opposition channel for encouraging protesters to use firebombs against the police. A few months later, the Iranian government banned Telegram anyway.
The very nature of the platform had made it hard for Iranian authorities to shut down all the dissident content on Telegram. Instead, the government has tried to push Iranians to use government-made and government-approved knockoff apps. The ban has been ineffective; even Iranian government propagandists themselves still use Telegram.
In April 2024, the Chinese government pushed Apple to remove WhatsApp, Threads, Signal, and Telegram from the Chinese version of the App Store. These apps were already blocked by Chinese internet service providers, but Chinese users had found ways around the Great Firewall. Durov claimed that the Apple ban did not affect Chinese use of Telegram, since users could still download the Android version directly.
"Chinese people are smart—they like Telegram and find a way to use it," Durov said.
Of course, America and France have important differences from Russia, China, and Iran. Along with civil rights laws, most Western countries have a large, independent tech sector wary of government interference. Silicon Valley billionaires David Sacks and Elon Musk both condemned Durov's arrest.
Still, even the American tech sector's independence has been weakening in the face of political pressure. Earlier this year, Congress passed a bill forcing Chinese company ByteDance to either sell off the social media app TikTok or face a ban from American app stores. Some opponents of the First Amendment are excited by the possibilities.
Former U.S. National Security Council official Alexander Vindman celebrated the defeat of "free speech absolutists weirdos" in a series of social media posts. Durov's arrest "has broader implications for other social media, including Twitter," Vindman wrote. "There's a growing intolerance for platforming disinfo & malign influence & a growing appetite for accountability. Musk should be nervous."
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""For too long, tech platforms have amplified disinformation and extremism with no accountability. The EU is poised to do something about it.
I urge our transatlantic allies to push the Digital Services Act across the finish line and bolster global democracy before it's too late."" -Hillary Clinton
""https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/jonathan-turley-slams-global-censors-says-americans-should-be-afraid-after-telegram-founder-s-arrest/ar-AA1psAF6?cvid=55b02538f691492eec0317e715953ea7&ei=40""
Free speech doesn't serve the interests of government. It serves the interests of people who like freedom. That's a problem for government.
The mere fact this bitch is pushing this is proof enough that it's bad for everyone.
This is why the second amendment is so important.
They jailed Douglass Mackey for a meme, convicted Trump of made up post facto crimes, stuck a $1 billion judgement on Alex Jones, and are investigating Elon Musk for God knows what even as he saves the 2 astronauts they stranded in space.
This is all despite the 2nd amendment.
Not to mention Waco, Ruby Ridge, and scores of others.
This is why Section 230 is so important.
By this logic, car manufacturers should be held responsible for any crime where a car is used for the getaway.
And of course, all drunk driving.
Can't wait to see how Kween Kamala implements this concept.
Well as I understand it Kia is responsible for wayward teenagers stealing their cars.
If you still think consistency matters to those in power, you're way way way behind the times
President Harris will do it by appointing Litigious James as the AG.
Huh, I was wondering if Reason was going to cover this. They hit it on Monday.
I figured something was going to come out today. It's one of the more egregious examples of totalitarian punitive measures. And it's no surprise that fat sack of shit Vindman was celebrating it.
You mean Reason's champion of democracy Vindman?
"It's one of the more egregious examples of totalitarian punitive measures."
Exactly! The Emergency Broadcast System should issue a "Fascist Pig Alert" every time this sort of thing happens. It should be a very loud and alarming sound, so as to wake up a few people.
"no surprise that fat sack of shit Vindman was celebrating it."
Nope. No surprise what-so-ever.
All signaling against fascism is aid to totalitarian communists.
Boomers and "classical libs" need to start realizing this fact.
Intent doesn't matter.
This is simply reality.
Okay. Signaling against "fascism" BY "totalitarian communists" is their go-to means to control the narrative. It has been so for a very, very long time. It is a powerful psy-op, which they will not abandon until people see them for precisely what they are. Calling a communist a "communist" has never been a negative to them because, though they may protest for the sake of a generally pathetic, word-salad variety argument, they coyly wear the label as a virtue signal or badge of honor. Therefore I am reluctant to call a communist a "communist." I call them "fascists" because whatever vanishingly minute difference there is between the two, it is far overshadowed by their identical genocidal outcomes. Socialism is a sugar-coated pathway to the same outcome. ALWAYS call a totalitarian a fascist. Better yet, a fascist pig. It's simple - they hate it. It's the one term they cannot abide. Good.
Liberals? I refuse to use the term to identify the totalitarians they have become. This is another pet peeve of mine, and I cringe every time I hear the term misapplied to, well, fascist pigs! They have become control freaks. Use it: "Control freaks."
I am glad you responded to my post in the way that you have. I've been wanting to get this assessment out there for some time, that whatever difference there is in the real world between communism, marxism, socialism and fascism is, in the end, not worth a pot of bubbling, outgassing diarrhea.
All signaling against fascism is advances totalitarian communism.
Boomers and “classical libs” need to start realizing this fact.
Intent doesn’t matter.
It is what it is.
Communists don't hate it when you call them fascists, because communists don't care about official definitions and you're aiding them by identifying their mortal enemy as the ultimate bad guy.
They'll bark back at you because that's what they do. You call them fascist, they call you fascist, and so on. The only thing that has been established is reinforcing the indoctrination that fascism, communism's enemy, is super bad.
And who fights fascists? Communists.
Congratulations, you've reinforced the role of communists as the hero.
Communists aren't people, who gives a fuck whether or not they're offended by being called communists? If they want to own up to it, great.
There are huge differences between communism and fascism, regardless of whether you like either's results.
Fascism likes its people, the volk. It's affirmative and chauvinist. Intolerant but ambitious. It comes in many varieties, and I'd define it as little more than autocratic nationalism. It is above all else anti-communist.
Communism, to quote @MysteryGrove since it's the most accurate definition yet, is when ugly deformed freaks make it illegal to be normal then rob and/or kill all successful people out of petty resentment and cruelty. The ideology is just window dressing.
Communists are assholes, liberals are pussies, and fascists are dicks.
He's an expert on phone calls to Ukraine and he has a really cool costume. American Hero!
Dude, you're supposed to declare that Reason is run by a bunch of leftists for not covering whatever it is you want them to cover, then declare that they only did because they read the comments. That way they're a bunch of leftists who get no credit, and you get to claim it all. You should know this by now.
Poor Jeff.
So sad.
If only France, Russia, and Iran had a Section 230 to protect computerized service providers from user-trolls.
Russia did briefly, but they instead co-opted it, and now use it both as a intelligence tool for its spies and to spread propaganda, and use it in the military to transmit orders to units
Lol
Sort of how the state department uses facebook.
I posted this on the Roundup thread, but it looks like France is having a coup by the Macronists.
Quite an incredible move in French politics today that might reveal that we’re in fact witnessing nothing less than a coup by Macron.
Let me explain
You’ll remember that on the 7th of July France held elections that Macron lost badly, and which the left’s “New Popular Front” won.
We’re now 48 days afterwards and Macron and his government are still running the country, they’ve basically ignored the election results which is unprecedented in the history of the French 5th republic.
Normally, as is the rule set by precedents, Macron should have nominated a Prime Minister from the New Popular Front, the winners of the elections.
At first Macron argued that it wasn’t convenient to change government right before the Olympics games and argued for an “Olympics truce”.
Which is a bit bizarre because he’s the one who decided to hold the elections right before the Olympics
Anyhow we’re now almost 2 weeks after the end of the Olympics and the situation is still the same so everyone is started to ask “wtf?”
Especially given that the New Popular Front has a Prime Minister ready: Lucie Castets, a senior public servant.
Now the excuse by Macron’s camp is that they refuse a government with anyone from LFI (“France’s unbowed”, Mélenchon’s party), the main party on the left and therefore the main party in the New Popular Front coalition (Lucie Castets is not from LFI but some ministers could be).
This forces Macron’s hand: if he says “no”, as Mélenchon himself wrote, it’d show that Macron’s refusal to have LFI in the government is “just a pretext to deny the election results”.
In effect if he says no, he openly admits that he just doesn’t accept the election results.
Olivier Faure, who leads the Socialist party (the other big political force in the New Popular Front) backs up Mélenchon and says the “pretext of the presence of LFI ministers” isn’t valid anymore.
In a way a New Popular Front government without LFI would in itself a denial of democracy because most voters voted for them *because* LFI was part of the coalition.
But this is also an act of political courage by Mélenchon and a way to put Macron in front of his contradictions.
We’ve already had some of Macron’s lieutenants reply such as Benjamin Haddad (former spokesperson for Macron’s party in the French parliament) who literally says that a New Popular Front government is unacceptable either way because it’d be bad for France.
They get to decide this?
Let’s see what Macron ultimately does but we’re truly witnessing something extraordinary that demonstrates how undemocratic France has become: the people voted and the result of their vote is so far simply rejected because those holding power don’t like it…
I got this community note in the thread, which is NOT true. In the elections of 2022 – the prior ones – Macron’s party arrived first without winning a majority yet Macron didn’t hesitate to nominate a Prime Minister from his own party
Another extraordinary comment on this matter by François Bayrou, a former Macron minister and a famous centrist politician in France:
He literally says that the answer to Mélenchon’s question is “of course no” (i.e. a New Popular Front government won’t be accepted no matter what) because the program of the NFP is “very dangerous” for France.
There you have it, he said the quiet part out loud: folks who lost the elections refuse to leave power in favor of those who won it because they disagree with the policies the winners would enact, and they believe they’re the ultimate judge for how the country should be governed.
Absolutely unreal.
Shorter Marxist-Mammary-Bahn-Farter-Fuhrer: Neither Reason nor Macron suck Sacred Orange Dick fiendishly enough, so they are both obliviously ALL of the WRONG TRIBE!!!!
(To the Kool Kids, no more logic or data is needed.)
BTW, I think Macron sucks, and the whole FUCKING WORLD needs Section 230, and NEEDS IT BADLY!!!!
BTW, I think Macron sucks, and the whole FUCKING WORLD needs Section 230, and NEEDS IT BADLY!!!!
We should force it on them!
Did I say that? Citation please! (I mean the force shit on them part.)
“Shorter Marxist-Mammary-Bahn-Farter-Fuhrer: Neither Reason nor Macron suck Sacred Orange Dick”
The whole thing was a copy and pasted article written by a Frenchman, you stupid fuck. Nothing there was written by me.
Just like 230 all over again, where you had no idea what you were fucking shilling for and thought the actual text of the law when it was posted was someone lying about it.
You’re too fucking lazy and stupid to do anything but troll.
I kicked Your Pathetically PervFectly STUPID ass in that argument and You PervFectly know it!
You have NOTHING other than denial-denial-denial, and "not of MY Tribe" arguments!
You-didn't-even-know-what-it-was-about.
You didn't recognize it when you saw it and you thought it was about free-speech rather than protection from lawsuits.
SQRLSY One 3 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
“(c)Protection for “Good Samaritan” blocking and screening of offensive material”
Just a label added by bystanding eggheads, babbling about what the law actually says… Much ado about nothing!
Marxist Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer imagines Herself Perfectly Judging who is a REAL “Good Samaritan”, and who is NOT! Since good v/s evil is reversed in Her Perfectly Twisted Mind, She would MUCH prefer… “EVIL Samaritans”!!!!
https://reason.com/2023/01/11/forget-russias-twitter-trolls-americas-censorious-officials-are-a-bigger-threat/?comments=true#comment-9873127
In short, YOUR stupid argument of paying ANY attention to section-headings in laws means we should change the "Good Samaritan" heading to the "EVIL Samaritan" heading, on the "theory" that headings mean JACK DIDDLY SQUAT, and the CONTENTS of the paragraphs to follow, are meaningless... Shall we change shit in the heading to "EVIL Samaritan", and NOW the Crying Bitches and Queens of Internet Trolling will be HAPPY, and all will be FIXED??!
I'm sorry, but ye are BEYOND fixing!!!
You are Pervfectly full of SHIT about HEADINGS and not CONTENTS actually mattering!
From https://uscode.house.gov/detailed_guide.xhtml#second … “Headings. The second type of change involves adding or modifying section and subsection headings. If a Code section is based on an act section that has headings, the Code will usually retain the original headings. However, in some cases, such as where there are no headings in the original act or where the section text is amended in such a way as to make the act headings inaccurate, the Code editors will provide or modify headings for the Code section.”
Simpler: Contents get updated and headings are now newly obsolete? The heading and NOT the contents are supposed to get updated!!! CONTENTS matter and headings do NOT!!! Go pound sand, ye Pervfectly Ignorant, Lying BITCH!!!
What the fuck are you ranting about now, you retarded sociopath? Nobody changed the headings in 230. The whole thing was as approved by congress.
CUNT IS STUPID SECTION
YOU PervFectly Mind-Perverted Bee-Yotch crowed something awful about YOUR superiority because You Perfectly knew that a Section 230 HEADING contained the phrase "Good Samaritan", and I was wrong about that! See, unlike YOU, I can admit error! BUT THE FUCKING HEADING MEANS NOTHING!!!! THE CONTENTS AND NOT THE HEADINGS MATTER!!! (Headings are just for organizing the material, labeling sections).
CUNT IS WRONG SECTION
Now admit YOUR error, You PervFect-in-Your-Own-Mind narcissist!
THOUGHT EXERCISE SECTION
And tell us, would ALL of the supposed short-comings of S-230 be fixed by changing the heading to "EVIL Samaritan"?
SUMMARY SECTION
YOU BEING WRONG is pretty simple!!!
That is weirdly irrelevant even for you. Did you read any of it?
"BTW, I think Macron sucks, and the whole FUCKING WORLD needs Section 230, and NEEDS IT BADLY!!!!"
"weirdly irrelevant"?
Why and how irrelevant? Do you know what S-230 is, and what it does? It means that the MESSAGE GENERATOR and not the MESSAGE MEDIA PROVIDER should be responsible for the messages!!! HELLO?!?
Should paper and pen manufacturers be PUNISHED for what people write with their products?!?! Hello, Hello, is there anyone... IN there?!?!
Then stop making everything about Trump/Trump supporters. I generally agree that section 230 protections are a good thing. But it doesn't protect the message generator from the state and that seems to be the bigger problem in EU at the moment.
Damn.
To think we could have avoided the worst day in the history of US (Jan 6), if Trump had just told Biden to go find somewhere else to live.
I'm fairly certain the rest of the world would have enjoyed the peace and prosperity that would have sustained.
And this is why I reject parliamentary governance.
And multiple parties.
Multiple parties should be replaced by... By twat? WHICH should be the One True Party, pray tell?
If anyone believes that the Democrats will peacefully transfer the presidency to Trump needs to take a serious look at how "liberal democracies" operate these days. They fucked up the assassination but it is still on the drawing board. Or they can declare a state of emergency and cancel or fortify the election. What's happening in the France police state should terrify libertarians and frankly everybody else.
And in other Euro news,
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/syrian-migrant-confesses-triple-murder-festival-diversity-germany
"The Islamic State (IS) claimed the assailant was acting as the group's "soldier," and posted a video that purportedly shows the 26-year-old holding a long knife as he swears his loyalty to the group's leader, and says he's chosen to kill as many non-believers as possible at Solingen's Festival of Diversity. He says he's from Deir al-Zor, an eastern Syria city on the Euphrates where IS is still active.
While this will likely receive light attention in major media that avoids examination of terrorists' motives that spring from Western foreign policy, the man in the video says his then-imminent attack will be an act of retaliation for the killing of Muslims in Syria, Iraq and Bosnia. He also says he is seeking vengeance for the "people of Palestine" who are being massacred by "Zionists." With western backing, Israel's attack on Gaza in the wake of the Oct. 7 Hamas invasion has killed tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians. "
I still think they're going to shoot down his plane.
Well he and Vance have had mechanical failures on their planes which is plausible. Until it isn't anymore.
Maybe.
But I wonder if some among the powers that be realize Trump is a moderating force.
He's probably far more dangerous as a martyr than as president...
THIS is why we need to LISTEN to the right-wing wrong-nuts and... HANG MIKE PENCE!!!
If anyone believes that the Democrats will peacefully transfer the presidency to Trump needs to take a serious look at how “liberal democracies” operate these days.
The big reason they're so pissed off at Maduro is that he copied their methods.
Maduro copied the methods of Dear Leader Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer!
https://reason.com/2023/10/20/how-sidney-powells-plea-deal-could-hurt-trump-in-the-georgia-racketeering-case/
https://reason.com/2022/02/11/sidney-powell-disowns-her-kraken-saying-she-is-not-responsible-for-her-phony-story-of-a-stolen-election/ (Yet another Powell article)
https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/
Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory
Which particular lies are you wanting to hear and believe today, hyper-partisan Wonder Child?
Literally what the Democrats did, you stupid fuck.
Sidney Powell is and works for Democrats now?
Twat is shit that You PervFectly admire so much, demented Bee-Yotch? The lying in court, the lies themselves, or just pure Tribalism?
https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1828169812738220402?t=XkWl73MhEB-vmwnvEPAqTQ&s=19
Update: it's now official, in a just-released communiqué Macron has rejected a government led by the New Popular Front (NPF).
It's an unprecedented situation in the history of the 5th French Republic: the loser in the election effectively rejects yielding power to the winner.
He explains it by the fact that his "responsibility is to ensure that the country be neither blocked nor weakened", arguing that were he to nominate a NPF government they'd soon be censored by parliament and destituded.
That may be the case but still this awfully inconvenient fact remains: Macron's party got way less votes and MPs than the NPF, yet it is Macron's party that's still running the French government, and it is Macron himself making choices on who can or cannot assume power based on what he thinks would "weaken France" or not. It's insane when you think about it.
[Link]
Democracy!
French police arrested Telegram founder Pavel Durov for failing to GIVE THEM control OF his social media and messaging app.
FIFY
Durov was arrested in Russia. Er China. I mean Iran. Wait? What!? He was arrested in a NATO liberal democracy?
Yes, France DOES need Section 230!!!
(Now convince the USA's right-wing wrong-nuts that we need to KEEP S-230 HERE!!!)
Maybe we also need tariffs on internet data.
AND tariffs on wrong thoughts, ESPECIALLY, dammit!!!!
I’ve told you before you fucking retard, 230 is about protection from lawsuits. It has nothing to do with government censorship.
(c) Protection for "Good Samaritan" blocking and screening of offensive material
(1) Treatment of publisher or speaker
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.
(2) Civil liability
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of-
(A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; or
(B) any action taken to enable or make available to information content providers or others the technical means to restrict access to material described in paragraph (1).1
Protection from lawsuits is a GOOD thing, when the lawsuits are STUPID AND EVIL!!!!
Maybe You (Oh PervFect One) will FINALLY understand that when YOU are punished for something that I wrote! It is that simple! S-230 prevents abuses of Government Almighty (courts, lawsuits) powers along these lines! On twat planet is it right to punish "Party A" for the doings or speech of "Party B"?
Macron is doing exactly that... Punishing an app-publisher for not thought-controlling the users of his app. People say wrong things on his app? PUNISH him for what OTHER people said!!! HELLO?!?!!?!?
Your Satanic child-raping has NOTHING to do with Your PervFectly Claimed Mental and Moral Superiority!
dafuq is Macron even still in power to pull this off?
Votes mean nothing anymore.
Too true!!! Only whining and crying louder than the next turd, about allegedly "stolen erections", matters, now, any more!
What the fuck does any of that have to do with the situation in France? Macron doesn't even seem to be claiming the election was stolen or anything like that. He's just refusing to transfer power in parliament to the winners.
"Votes mean nothing anymore."
That's twat I was responding to. According to right-wing wrong-nuts... "Theories" of "stolen erections" should replace voting! Follow the threads!!!
France has Power Pigs that cling to TWATEVER stupid justifications that they can find! Ditto Power Pigs in the USA!!!
He realized during covid that he could do whatever the fuck he wants and nobody would stop him. Same thing all the despots learned.
Too, too true!!! Also...
"He realized during THE STOLEN ERECTIONS that he could do whatever the fuck he wants and nobody would stop him. Same thing all the despots learned."
And now we have Venezuela ass the latest instance of this... Shit was stopped the last time in the USA... May Government Almighty protect and preserve us in the future ass well, time will tell...
Government almighty, please protect us from unapproved and dangerous wind instruments, amen.
Eeyore is one hellava funny muthafucka, amen, good job, Brownie!!!
SOME professions NEED to be SUPER-highly educated to that they can PROTECT us benighted peons! Think of super-highly edumacated DOCTORS of Expert Medical Doctorology, who protect us from the use of not-properly-authorized DANGEROUS medical implements of mass death and destruction, such ass cheap plastic flutes, AKA, the dreaded, complex and dangerous LUNG FLUTE!!!
To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!