Social Media Platforms Have Property Rights Too
The push to regulate social media content infringes on rights guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.

While pundits and lawyers cross swords over free speech on social media, a quieter yet critically important principle is being ignored: property rights. In addition to violating the First Amendment, the rush to force social media platforms to host content violates the Fifth Amendment as well—in particular, the Takings Clause.
The Takings Clause says that government shall not take private property "for public use, without just compensation." While many are familiar with the clause's importance when the government wants to seize land through eminent domain, courts have also applied this right as a limit on the ability to overregulate property. For example, if a beach town requires the owners of oceanfront properties to let the public walk across their yards to get to the beach, this would require compensation, because the regulation effectively takes the property owner's right to exclude, a cornerstone of ownership.
Likewise, the Takings Clause shields social media platforms from regulations requiring they host content or users they want to exclude. These platforms have as much right to eject unwelcome digital interlopers as homeowners do to stop the government from using their yard as a public right of way—unless they are given just compensation. If states intend to force social media apps to host users and content against their wishes, they will have to pay for it.
Both state and federal laws already treat online platforms as property. All states criminalize unauthorized access to computer systems, often expressly framing these crimes as trespass. Platforms defend their territory with encryption, authentication, firewalls, terms of service, and other digital fences. Laws affirming online platforms as protectable property, alongside the platforms' own fortifications, clearly categorize them as "private property" under the Takings Clause.
Laws that mandate online platforms to accept certain content or users effectively invade private property. And the courts have established that when the government grants third parties access to private property without the owner's consent, that requires compensation. The federal government had to pay a private marina owner in Hawaii before it could be compelled to allow public boating access. Similarly, the Supreme Court ruled just a few years ago that California had to compensate employers after it forced them to let union representatives access their property.
These precedents apply to content moderation laws like those currently challenged on First Amendment grounds. Texas's law, which prohibits "censor[ing] a user, a user's expression, or a user's ability to receive the expression of another" based on viewpoint, does to digital spaces what unlawful regulations do to physical spaces—it negates the platform's right to determine its occupants.
One might argue that digital exclusions aren't as tangible as physical ones. Yet imagine a law that mandates private businesses to display campaign signs in their storefront windows. This law would not just violate the businesses' speech rights; it would also clearly violate their property rights to control their own space.
Supporters of regulating social media might point to the Supreme Court's decision in Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins, where the Court rejected a takings claim by a shopping mall forced to allow activists to distribute leaflets. The Court reasoned that a few activists wouldn't significantly disrupt a mall's essential purpose. The Court recently indicated that Pruneyard was an exceptional case because shopping malls are "generally open to the public" and lack the kind of terms of service that govern social media platforms.
Pruneyard was wrong to deny shopping malls the right to exclude, but, regardless of that decision, online platforms are not public malls. The core function of a shopping mall is to invite the public to shop. The essence of social media is speech and content. Interference with a platform's ability to control content affects its core purpose. Even owners of traditional public spaces can exclude activities that contradict their business's purpose. Social media platforms should be afforded similar rights under property law.
A win under the Takings Clause would mean that the government cannot require social media platforms to host all content unless they pay for the privilege. Compensation could be hard to calculate, given that the interference is ongoing and the economic effects are complex. Whatever the dollar amount, politicians will struggle to convince taxpayers to commit to a continuous cash funnel from their pockets to Big Tech. A win under the Takings Clause would likely make many regulators rethink their strategies.
As the early abolitionist Arthur Lee once said, property is the "guardian of every other right." Property offers a personal dominion free from undue influence or control—spaces we can each shape to reflect our own values. In defending this for online platforms, we uphold the foundation of liberty and innovation.
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And once again Reason misses the point on this. Does your phone company have the right to shut off your service because they don't like your occupation? May a toll road operator exclude Democrats? Social media platforms have been granted immunity from liability for content IN EXCHANGE FOR allowing freedom of expression. Now they want it both ways. If they want unlimited restriction of content, then let them suffer liability like any other publisher.
Phone company, my ass!!!
Idiotic in SOOO many ways!!! Child-porn posts MUST be left up? Solicitations for murder for hire must be left up?
And LOOK, doofus, Ma Bell carrying my PRIVATE conversation with Aunt Mildred can NEVER cause Ma Bell to be suspected of blessing my racist shit that I say to Ma Bell!!! Ma Bell will NEVER lose (advertising or other) revenue over what I say to Aunt Mildred!!! These things are NOT true of publically viewed posts!!! And that is a HUGE difference! Just HOW stupid and evil ARE you anyway, liar?
Has shit EVER occurred to your tiny near-invisible brain that there is NO chance that Ma Bell will be boycotted, because they heard you admiring Hitler or Stalin on a private line, and therefore, some idiots will think that Ma Bell adores Hitler and Stalin?
And… PREPARE your tiny brain now… SOME people just MIGHT boycott Reason.com or FacePoooo because Reason.com or FacePoooo did NOT take down your Adolf-Adoring and Hitler-Humping posts!!! Hello, SOME messages are viewable by a wide audience, and SOME are NOT!!! IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE!!!! HELLO?!?!!
The Supreme Court has already ruled on this issue.
In Marsh vs Alabama the Supreme Court ruled that the more a private interest invites the public onto their property, the more the constitutional rights of the public prevail.
As long as a social media company invites the public to speak, the constitutional right to free speech applies.
Like any right, free speech isn’t absolute. Just as the right to freedom and to bear arms doesn’t apply to criminal behaviour, criminalized speech isn’t protected either.
That isn’t the same as censoring what you don’t like.
Criminals should be punished by the justice system, not vigilantes.
"In Marsh vs Alabama the Supreme Court ruled that the more a private interest invites the public onto their property, the more the constitutional rights of the public prevail."
So what? As a practical matter, grab your bullhorn and go to your local grocery store and start bellowing out long, loud speeches about how the Holocaust was a big giant fat fake! (Perhaps you've tried this already?) See if the grocery store doesn't kick you OUT of there, with police assistance if need be! THE GROCERY STORE BELONGS TO THE OWNERS THEREOF!!!
You and your analogy deserve each other.
Grocery stores invite the public to shop while social media invites the public to speak.
Social media invites the public to speak ON THE TERMS OFFERED BY SAID SOCIAL MEDIA!!!
Get Government Almighty and endless lawyers involved in what may, and may not, be posted, and prepare to pay $25 per word for your posts!!! Shit will be a feeding frenzy for parasites!!!
What people say has nothing to do with the website.
Only commenters are responsible for their comments.
Free speech doesn’t cost more than censored speech.
“What people say has nothing to do with the website.”
If readers read the comments on Reason.com, and decide not to spend advertising dollars there any more because of ugly comments NOT taken down… Or buy Reason magazine any more… Or otherwise boycott Reason, all of which are reasonable fears on the part of Reason… Are you going to use Government Almighty FORCE to PREVENT me from boycotting Reason? Are you ready to FORCE me to buy Reason Magazine, Oh Great Power Pig?
That’s the business of speech. In this country it’s free.
Compete or leave.
Maybe you’d prefer to live in North Korea or China.
Are you going to use Government Almighty FORCE to PREVENT me from boycotting Reason? Are you ready to FORCE me to buy Reason Magazine, Oh Great Power Pig?
Didn't answer my questions!! Twat an UDDER surprise!!! THIS (forced magazine buying, etc.) is twat they do in North Korea!!! So YOU go there!!!
Are you stupid?
You obviously can’t comprehend the concept of competing in an environment of free speech.
Are you EVIL? (Yes, I know, ye ARE evil!!!)
You obviously can’t comprehend the concept of competing in an environment of allowing others the same freedoms that you, yourself, enjoy. You want YOUR questions answered, butt won't answer the questions of others!
So then WHY are ye SOOOOO evil?
“Are you stupid?” Was a rhetorical question.
That means I don’t expect you to answer it.
I expected that IF you had ANY of your oh-so-adored “logic” and “reason”, then you would answer my questions…
Are you going to use Government Almighty FORCE to PREVENT me from boycotting Reason? Are you ready to FORCE me to buy Reason Magazine, Oh Great Power Pig?
Oooops! I forgot! You are a HYPOCRITE! Say one thing, and do the opposite!
Your parties at your house have been granted immunity from liability for what your guests say to each other IN EXCHANGE FOR allowing you to exclude guests who are constantly saying shit that you don't like. Now your guests want it both ways. If you want unlimited restriction-rights for your guest list, then let YOU suffer liability like any other publisher! We must punish YOU for what your guests says to each other, if you SOOOO stubbornly cling to your so-called "right" to exclude certain guests!
"Social media platforms have been granted immunity from liability for content IN EXCHANGE FOR allowing freedom of expression."
This is incorrect. They have been granted no such immunity. And there was never any exchange.
No. They have. Especially in the firm of the EULA that require arbitration in front of friendly central California courts. Even in the last round if testimony before the USSC they wanted the right to curate content, including adding their own words to 3rd party speech, while avoiding liability for any claims of defamation. For example a social media company adds a disclaimer regarding information or claiming post removed due to legality. Essentially calling someone a criminal. They are immune from defamation if the information is true.
Then take the case of Meagan Murphy who was kicked off a platform for posts made prior yo a rule change. A violation of contract law. Her contractual claims were simply dismissed under the guise if 230 immunity.
The SV courts have twisted 230 so much as it now bleeds into contractual terms not enjoyed by any other industry in the US.
Now if you mean 230 was simply a liability waiver for favored country and no exchange was ever made, I agree.
The SV courts have twisted 230 so much as it now bleeds into contractual terms not enjoyed by any other industry in the US.
Point of order: S230 was rather explicitly and specifically a stab at the 1A for this purpose. The explicit and stated intent was to reverse Cubby, for which Compuserve had no direct contract nor control, *and* to reverse Prodigy, for which Prodigy knowingly and explicitly exercised top-to-bottom control of content in violation of their TOS.
SV courts have clawed at the wound in the 1A caused by Section 230 causing it to bleed over contract law more completely.
You're wrong.
The rationale for granting immunity was to allow soft moderation policies without incurring liability for content left on the platform. It was not to allow for strict moderation policies with out incurring liability. Since that seems to be what we are getting, and Reason is supporting, there is no justification for Section 230 and it should be repealed as being unfit for purpose.
The rationale for granting immunity was to allow soft moderation policies without incurring liability for content left on the platform.
Again 'rationale' needs some scare quotes. If the CIA sends a vaccination team to Afghanistan that actually does vaccinate people, but also samples their DNA looking for Bin Laden's relatives, the hepatitis vaccines may have been a rationale for sending some people to Afghanistan, but it was not *the* 'rationale' for the program.
The Prodigy court specifically (and requisite) parsed "soft moderation" of things like 'no swear word, no illegal content or personal threats, keep content topically relevant, etc.' moderation from the 'We built a system for the C-level Executives to take down any post solely at their discretion knowing and stating it could be used to violate the TOS accidentally or on purpose.' moderation. Section 230 reversed this distinction.
I am SOOOO sick of the cuntstantly repeated lies of the power pigs here in these cumments!
"Publisher. Platform. Pick one." ... 'Cause Power Pig said so!
Your large and ugly punishment boner is showing!!! Be decent, and COVER UP, will ya?!?!?
If you want to love animals, pamper your pets. If you love to eat meat, eat meat. Pick one, ONLY one!
You either love animals, or you eat meat… You can NOT do both! All pet owners who eat meat? Their pets will be slaughtered and their pet-meat distributed to the poor! Because I and 51% of the voters said so! And because we are power pigs, and LOOOOOVE to punish people!
“Why should sites that curate content be any different?”
To “curate content” is just to pick and choose. News reporters (of all kinds, and publishers of letters to the editor) do it all day every day. Shall we sue ALL of their socks off, for selectively reporting what OTHER people said? And if Trump gives an hour-long speech, and the paper (TV station, etc.) reports only 3 sentences of said shit, should we PUNISH them for that? Fucking power pigs, all of ye!
You are obviously very passionate about the things you say, but using obscure references known only to you, and banging almost randomly on the keyboard isn't helping. I honestly have no idea what you are really trying to say here.
Grow some brain cells then! Power pigs here have repeatedly made assertions such ass:
“Publisher. Platform. Pick one.” … ‘Cause Power Pig said so! "Because I said so" is the cuntstant refrain of naked authoritarians!! It is NO different, in principle, than the below:
If you want to love animals, pamper your pets. If you love to eat meat, eat meat. Pick one, ONLY one!
You either love animals, or you eat meat… You can NOT do both! All pet owners who eat meat? Their pets will be slaughtered and their pet-meat distributed to the poor! Because I and 51% of the voters said so! And because we are power pigs, and LOOOOOVE to punish people!
“Grow some brain cells then!”
“Cunt! Sore! Ass! Tards!”
Yes, the retarded squirrel uses big brain words. So hard to follow. Haha.
Esteemed Greasy-Pants LOVES it's pets SOOOO much that Esteemed Greasy-Pants DOES indeed roast or fry them up to eat! With a nice Chianti and some fava beans!!!
Now you are just copying and pasting your angry rants. That doesn't make it more comprehensible, it just raises the noise level.
I notice that ye do NOT refute my points! Gee, I wonder why THAT is?
It’s because I don’t understand what point you are trying to make other than “everyone here is stupid except for me”
Ctrl+f 'protection': 0/0 results.
100% fail.
You guys know that, after the Twitter Files and the Facebook files the "mostly peaceful" summer of love, the continued idiocy of stuff like "Cops shot Dexter Reed", borders are just figments of imagination until we say they aren't... this whole "Our right to lie and deceive people, to reject our own TOS, to contractually engage users and then void those contracts, to disinform voters in the interest of democracy and to
sexualize childrennormalize sex work to minors is a material right clearly manifest in the Constitution." makes you look utterly retarded right?You don't even have to be a very dyed-in-the-wool libertarian in order to recognize, on principle, that in order for takings to have effect, the property must be duly and rightly held and not offered preferential protection to merely exist. Otherwise, it's a gift created out of government protection and claims perpetuate the issues of public commons rather than resolve them.
But then, most of this magazine is proudly far more retardedly progressive than even the activists lobbing molotov cocktails at ICE detention centers.
Who are you kidding?
There are no rights when democrats are in charge.
1) Stop giving Zuckerberg ideas. You have just written a recipe for Facebook to get strong monopoly status protected by the government AND get a subsidy from the government for the trouble. "Sure we will moderate content- just give us 1 Trillion a year!"
2) While I agree that it is not just morally wrong, but also A Very Bad Idea (TM) for government to extend its powers of speech regulation, in 2024, these articles are coming off like me trying to comment on my kids' music. Outdated, cranky and ultimately a bit cringe.
THE story of the last 2 years has not been these upstart attempts at regulation. It has been that the Government ALREADY exercises too much control over Social Media through proxy censorship campaigns. Twitter Files have revealed over the past decade that the State and Federal governments were employing entire departments to monitor and flag content for their fascist cronies in Silicon Valley.
Any regulation on the subject needs to be aimed at that problem- the mass migration of government intelligence assets into the highest levels of Tech; the backdoor channels into their moderation departments; the easy access of "certain" politicians to the policy-makers inside these companies.
This quaint notion that Tech Companies are stalwart independents has been disabused by the reporting of Taibbi, Greenwald and Weiss for months. If Reason cannot integrate this old news into their reporting on the subject, their writing is irrelevant.
So then WHO in the USA today, is being PUNISHED by Government Almighty, for "wrong moderation of political comments" on THEIR web site? I mean, "punishment" OTHER than not being invited to the right cocktail parties? Name me ONE such person!
Meanwhile, hardly anyone pays attention to the "carrot" side of the problem, and not the "stick" side of the problem.
Maybe we should outlaw tax money spent as “carrots” to “persuade” media to do or not do certain things! FBI spent millions rewarding Twitter, say some, others say not true… I wasn’t there to see it or not see it… If it IS true, or NOT true, it should be outlawed!
https://www.techdirt.com/2022/12/20/no-the-fbi-is-not-paying-twitter-to-censor/ says 1 source…
https://nypost.com/2022/12/19/fbi-reimbursed-twitter-for-doing-its-dirty-work-on-users/
Well SHIT! Now, WHO to believe!?!? In any case, outlaw tax money spent for this!
Are you seriously advocating the idea that the government can coerce, cajole, and demand censorship of its citizens as long as it’s through a 3rd party?
I am saying that this "problem" is hallucinated... Too many people taking shrooms, LSD, etc.! Name me ONE person punished in the USA lately, for "wrong" moderation of political comments, on THEIR web site! Excluding being "punished" by OTHER than not being invited to the right cocktail parties, any more? Name me ONE such person!
Oh, you’re just doing your blind court jester bit. Carry on.
Name me ONE such person! Ye can SNOT do shit! And so then ***I*** am the jester? Shirley ye jest!!!
Then all common carriage laws would violate property rights.
Sure, we libertarians will be REALLY successful if we insist that all utility easements are horrible invasions of private property! There go sewage, oil, gas, water, and other pipelines, road and railway right-of-ways (eminent domain), drainage channels (ditches), telephone lines, fiber-optic lines, and who knows what all else! If you can NOT persuade the Libertarian Party to see things this way… Start your own political party! It is NOT against the law to do so, here and now, at least!
Now in the meantime… In WHAT way does the above list (of utility easements for the public good) have ANYTHING to do with what I allow (or exclude) in my newspaper or web site?
You do know what common carriage laws are, right?
Yes, the sewage pipeline was built on a sewage utility easement, and so some power pig at the sewage treatment plant can NOT target ME, and reject MY sewage, for stupid reasons! If I flush shitloads of plutonium powder down with my turds, they can send the law after me, for good reasons! But they can NOT reject my sewage for political reasons (just because they hate me), because I paid taxes to regulators, who regulate public utilities! AND because they reserve an easement on MY property!
Now when you push YOUR sewage onto Reason.com's web site, their web site has NOTHING to do with common carriage or utility easements! Do you agree that the local hardcopy rag has the right to REJECT your letter to the editor? Or are they a common carrier also? Which is Reason.com more like, your physical sewage pipeline, or the local news rag? Keep in mind that Reason.com does NOT reserve the right to accept or reject the electrons on photons on your wires or fiber optic lines... But they DO reserve the right to control THEIR web site! Which is THEIR property, having NOTHING to do with public utilities or "common carrier" associated with public utilities! Hello?
It is hard to see how these property rights claims differ from justifying a telecom simply denying service to people or handing over "their" data from texts or live signal to anyone, even law enforcement.
That’s third party doctrine which is a blatant 4A violation. Different issue.
No, because common carriers have been compensated, contrary to what Blevins asserts. Back in the days when the local Phone Company was required to serve all comers, they were compensated by being allowed to function as what would otherwise have been an illegal monopoly. Today's social media sites are compensated with immunity for liability for most user-generated content. Railroads have enjoyed similar arrangements.
I think you're arguing past each other here.
Per your own post, common carriers are compensated... with stolen goods.
The monopoly isn't "otherwise illegal" simply because the government deigns it otherwise so, it is, or can be, otherwise illegal because it's an undesirable disservice to the people to have that power concentrated in such a fashion whether the government formally declares it so or not.
The exception granted to said monopoly, especially as administrative edict, may or may not be justified by the will of the (whole of the) people.
But when government threatens social media companies with anti-trust investigations and other coercive acts, that's not a violation of property rights?
Let's get back to what distinguishes fascists from the more garden variety of socialists: socialists own the means of production, fascists merely control them. Is this really the road you're taking?
The anti-property-rights fascists in Government Almighty (on BOTH sides!) use anti-trust laws (and threaten to use them) to get their way, yes. So address THAT issue, and do NOT throw out the baby with the bath water! Keep in mind that said anti-property-rights fascists have Section 230 standing in their way! The FIRST thing that they want to do, is tear down S-230!!! Just like VAST numbers of idiotic cummenters right here on these pages!
Murder is evil and we have too many murders! So let's just totally get RID of poorly and unfairly enforced murder laws!
Can we treat Facebook and Google the same way Alex Jones was treated?
The court asked Alex Jones how much money he made from talking about dandy hook (22 minutes out of ~14 years of broadcasting).
When he couldn't get an exact number they said fraud.
I want to know how much money Facebook and Google have made off of my data, if they can't give me an exact number they should be fined for the same penelty of about 700% of what their business is valued at.
Also the ownership of data is with the users. There should be an opt in for stored data. This should apply to all companies the car companies and John deere are some of the worse
Alex Jones case is even more malicious. The courts demanded he turn over all documents. He did. They claimed without evidence there was more. His lawyers said everything was handed over. Again without evidence the courts declared Jones in violation despite having handed over documents.
Then the courts violated the 8th amendment granting a ridiculous sum instead of estimates on accrued damages from the families. There was never any damage.
But Alex Jones is an irresponsible nut so he deserves whatever happens to him, regardless of how abusive or unjust it may be.
IIRC Alex Jones' attorney accidentally leaked texts from Alex Jones' phone mentioning Sandy Hook, proving that he'd lied under oath when denying that he had such texts.
Poor, poor, POOR Alex Jones!!! He is THE biggest Victim around these that them here parts!
Strange that you are so concerned for social media property rights, but not individual property rights. How can you justify a billion dollars in damages for words?
You and I didn't hear the case. The jury did. From what I read, the many parents were abused by many-many haters, who sent death threats, etc., because Alex Jones called all of the parents liars!
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/jury-deciding-how-much-money-alex-jones-will-pay-sandy-hook-families-for-years-of-lies
From there, import below...
Mark Barden, Father of Sandy Hook Victim: This was horror beyond anything we had — could ever imagine, trying to deal with — trying to deal with the fact that our little boy had just been shot to death in his first-grade classroom.
I had a picture of, like, one of my little days at home with Daniel. I — just for fun, we had a little bath in the kitchen sink, and I had taken a picture of it because it was adorable. And somebody came on the Web site saying that that picture was actually — excuse me, but that was a picture of Daniel after I had dismembered him and killed him myself, and that picture was me mocking everyone else with the fact that I had murdered my son and taken a picture of him in the sink.
You can't make this up. Somebody did. But this is what I was trying to — we were all trying to deal with.
So, your position comes down to principals over principles. Pretty much what everyone thought.
Alex Jones is a Creature of the Right... From the RIGHT Tribe!!! So He should be able to make IMMENSE profits selling LIES to the people who want to hear, whatever they want to hear! And then, ass a direct result of said blatant LIES, innocent parents receive endless and endlessly ugly death threats! But... Alex Jones should be able to tell any and all lies (and profit from them) ass He pleases!
Now WHO is shit, that supports principals over principles?
Name ONE plausible set of words which can be so damaging, so harmful, that they justify ONE BILLION DOLLARS in damages.
You cannot. No one can. Not even that jury. It was pure spite.
Sure, one billion was excessive in THIS particular case, IMHO. Off top of my head; I wasn't on the jury.
How about THIS set of words, from Putin to His Head Warmongering General-Sir-Dude-Sir: "General-Sir-Dude-Sir, that them thar ferriners have pissed my off for the LAST time! Press this here red button, and launch total nuclear WW III!!!"
In other words, you can only name actions, not words.
And in other news, you can't read.
Did yer Mama ever explain to you that SOME words can stir up OTHER people who then take harmful actions? Would tit be OK for a Future Commander in Chief (Trump) to CUMMAND His troops to go and GRAB Spermy Daniels (or her Kitty Cat; I am told that if ye grab them by their Kitty Cats, their hearts and minds swill follow!), and BRING her (Our Queen, Who Art Glazed in Vaseline) TO Him, and Pronto!?
Did Alex Jones's followers actually have to FOLLOW THROUGH AND ACTUALLY KILL SOME PARENT before you'd say that they should have been allowed to sue Alex Jones?
If you actually believed that distasteful words which stir up harmful actions should be punished as if all those potential actions had actually taken place ...
... you'd stop typing all your trash and hide under your mama's bed.
"Ladies and gentlemen—Mr. WAYNE NEWTON!"
“From what I read….”
Yeah, squirrel, things always happen exactly as you read them.
Did you know that they still haven’t outlawed wet markets in China? Funny that.
To christian nationalsocialists, Aleck Jones is the apostle Peter, to Twump as Jesus.
Do you ever get tired of being a hateful fucking bigot? It’s got to be exhausting.
I am not sure what the point of the argument that unauthorized access to private networks is criminalized. The whole point of social media platforms is that they are generally open to all for the purposes of communication by the user. We are talking about the censorship of people who have been authorized to use the service and have a contractual relationship with the platform. That does not mean the owners of the platform have the ability to apply conditions that are enforced in a capricious and arbitrary fashion. The platforms routinely hide what the alleged violation was even from the user being censored. Also, real estate property owners are regularly barred from restricting passage on their land in the form of easements which apply for various reasons.
The example of a property owner not allowing a campaign sign on his land can be countered by television and radio stations being disallowed from viewpoint discrimination in what campaign adds they run. Also, business types that provide essential services have limited rights to bar someone from using their services.
The current regime we have has resulted in a social media environment where certain contentious subjects cannot be debated honestly because the platforms will bar the arguments of one side while enabling the other. This has led to users of the platforms having to engage in using ridiculous euphemisms to even allude to their arguments. That the major platforms have been engaging in cartel behavior to enforce this viewpoint discrimination and colluding with elements of the federal government to suppress disfavored speech has led to these kinds of state legislation.
Perhaps if Ethan Blevins could be a bit critical of the ways the platforms have abused their users and contractual obligations, one could take seriously and regard his article as apologia for bad behavior against the culture of free speech.
Reason will never acknowledge the contractual issues in the discussion.
In part, HERE is how Reason.com acknowledges the contractual issues in the discussions! And more power to THEM, and less to YOU, power-pig asshole! It is THEIR property!
"Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time."
While Reason may have that legalese, it dies not engage in viewpoint discrimination in the moderating its comments section. It is also an opinion media outlet with a definite editorial voice.
Facebook, Google, et al werw allegedly political neutral and places where users could express themselves.
Oh,and remember Reason bent the knee and censored comments critical of a certain person for fear of being held liable for commenter posts.
I honestly can't recall that. Got any details?
It was the infamous "Woodchipper" incident.
Oh, OK, I recall that one... But ass I recall, Reason.com stuck by their guns, and left most or all of those comments up...
https://reason.com/2015/06/19/government-stifles-speech/
https://reason.com/2015/06/25/how-the-feds-asked-me-to-rat-out-comment/
I will see if I can find the original article with the many-many comments...
OK, it looks like ye are correct...
https://www.wired.com/2015/06/feds-want-id-web-trolls-threatened-silk-road-judge/
Last week the Department of Justice issued a grand jury subpoena to the libertarian media site Reason.com, demanding that it identify six visitors to the site. The subpoena letter, obtained and published by blogger Ken White, lists trollish comments made by those six Reason readers that---whether seriously or in jest---call for violence against Katherine Forrest, the New York judge who presided over the Silk Road trial and late last month sentenced Silk Road creator Ross Ulbricht to life in prison.
"It's judges like these that should be taken out back and shot," wrote one user named Agammamon, in a comment thread that has since been deleted from Reason.com's story on Ulbricht's sentencing.
"It's judges like these that will be taken out back and shot," answered another user named Alan.
"Why do it out back? Shoot them out front, on the steps of the courthouse," reads a third comment from someone going by the name Cloudbuster.
https://reason.com/2015/05/31/silk-road-trial-read-ross-ulbrichts-haun/?comments=true#comments MAY have been the original article; I am not clear on it all. I thought that there used to be 1 K some comments there...
Repeated from the "Wired" article excerpt above, "...in a comment thread that has since been deleted from Reason.com's story..."
So it looks like ye are correct!
These Mises MAGAt girlbullying wankers are what young and innocent visitors have thrown in their faces. Libertarians used to be popular among women before Grabber-Of-Pussy infiltrators diddled with the women's individual rights verbiage demanding asylum from Comstockism for 100 days. After that women crossed the street to avoid us until Gary and Weld spoke up for them. Lookit Tesla Stock since Grand Goblin Greg and Long Dong blessed the Texas fugitive slave law 05NOV2021.
“…,women crossed the street to avoid us….”
Hank and the retarded squirrel? Say it ain’t so!
I am not sure what the point of the argument that unauthorized access to private networks is criminalized.
It's like they can't conceptualize being up front about telling people "You are not welcome here." and abiding that.
The same sort of "We have to (continue to) grant women (more) agency in order for them to have agency." oxymoronic idiocy required to will the self-licking ice cream cones into existence.
Biden longs for the return of the 70s. Hence his love for inflation. Trump also wants a return to the 70s, hence his love of government managed trade.
What else did we have in the 70s? A media that kowtowed to the government. So of course both hate social media.
Remember the crackdowns on hippie newspapers?
Now explain why President Trump wasn't allowed to block people from his Twitter feed, but Twitter was allowed to block President Trump.
Those people Trump was blocking were journalists, they have super special rights which the rest of us mere plebs do not enjoy.
Um, perhaps because Twitter owned Twitter, and Trump did NOT? Does Trump own ALL media around here? Sure looks like He wanted to own it all! For the "anti-Trump" SIN of adding comments to His comments! "This post here might not be true". Is it a SIN to say that?
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/27/863011399/trump-threatens-to-shut-down-social-media-after-twitter-adds-warning-on-his-twee
Trump Threatens To Shut Down Social Media After Twitter Adds Warning To His Tweets
You missed the point. It wasn't Twitter that prevented Trump from blocking people though. It was the courts who decided citizens have the right to engage POTUS. But apparently POTUS doesn't have the right to engage with citizens?
"...After Twitter Adds Warning To His Tweets"
They did NOT block his shit! They added THEIR COMMENTS to his shit! You just commented about MY comments! Did you just now deprive me of my rights to engage with citizens?
Even more so... Even if Twitter DID block ALL of Trump's shit, Twitter's property belongs to Twitter! And, in the internet era, EVERYONE with an internet connection can access ALL of Trump's lies that they want to access!!! With or without Twitter or Shitter! Hello?!?!
Again, you are shifting to another topic entirely. I'm not talking about the warnings to his Tweets. You are wasting a lot of energy and anger by not even reading the comments you are responding to.
The test for nazi questions is "allowed by whom"?
The test for communist questions is "at whose expense"?
That's good! I will have to steal it from time to time!
The logic of this article would invalidate all common-carrier designations and other anti-discrimination laws.
I will grant that the argument is internally consistent and has some compelling logic. But I would ask the author (and others supporting this line of reasoning) if he is really prepared to go that far. If so, why not say it clearly? If not, what distinguishes the anti-discrimination laws that you like from this one that you don't like?
"The logic of this article would invalidate all common-carrier designations..."
Um, hello? Public utilities v/s those that are NOT public utilities?
Yes, the sewage pipeline was built on a sewage utility easement, and so some power pig at the sewage treatment plant can NOT target ME, and reject MY sewage, for stupid reasons! If I flush shitloads of plutonium powder down with my turds, they can send the law after me, for good reasons! But they can NOT reject my sewage for political reasons (just because they hate me), because I paid taxes to regulators, who regulate public utilities! AND because they reserve an easement on MY property!
Now when you push YOUR comments onto Reason.com’s web site, their web site has NOTHING to do with common carriage or utility easements! Do you agree that the local hardcopy rag has the right to REJECT your letter to the editor? Or are they a common carrier also? Which is Reason.com more like, your physical sewage pipeline, or the local news rag? Keep in mind that Reason.com does NOT reserve the right to accept or reject the electrons on photons on your wires or fiber optic lines… But they DO reserve the right to control THEIR web site! Which is THEIR property, having NOTHING to do with public utilities or “common carrier” associated with public utilities!
Irrelevant. Common carrier status is imposed on far more than merely public utilities. Your choice of sewage is particularly inapt. By behavior, social media sites are much closer to telephones and hotels, both of which suffer under common-carrier restrictions and yet most people think that's fair. Do you?
Telephone companies aren't commonly blamed for what people say on them, because only the target listener can hear it. Ma Bell won't get boycotted because Ma Bell carrying my PRIVATE conversation with Aunt Mildred can NEVER cause Ma Bell to be suspected of blessing my racist shit that I say to Aunt Mildred, not to Ma Bell!!! Ma Bell will NEVER lose (advertising or other) revenue over what I say to Aunt Mildred. These things are NOT true of publically viewed posts!!! And that is a HUGE difference!
Hotels? Travelers looking for a hotel would face major problems if unfairly discriminated against, especially if the hotel says that they don't discriminate unfairly, and yet they do. So hotel "common carrier" makers sense to me, yes, good point.
The other MAJOR factor here is the HUGE number of web sites available to us, unlike phone carriers and local hotels. Number of web sites accessible in the USA today? https://siteefy.com/how-many-websites-are-there/ "1,086,916,398 Currently, there are around 1.09 billion websites in the World. 18% of these websites are active, 82% are inactive." No shortage; Government Almighty needn't "protect" from what the free market provides!
Still irrelevant. Number of websites is like comparing the total number of rooms in all buildings - both orders of magnitude larger than the number of options to rent. There are only a handful of social media sites - about the same ratio as major hotel chains to all-building rooms.
By the way, Ma Bell did get lobbied against (and sometimes sued) for carrying your PRIVATE conversations - maybe not with Aunt Mildred but lots of other times - until it was deemed a common carrier. Facebook and Google are in no different legal position.
Oh, get real! If I am in some remote tiny Alaskan town, and there is-are only 1 or 2 hotels in town, and they exclude crazy libertarians, I am seriously screwed! I can access 1.09 billion websites from anywhere that has an internet connection!
We also have phone calls, pamphlets, letters, word of mouth, smoke signals, telegraphs, Morse code, cryptic codes on the back-sides of stop signals, messages on cereal boxes, nano-molecules in your vaccines, tin-foil hats, ESP, clairvoyance, text messages, and… Now I will show my advanced years… EMAILS!!!
CensorShit in the USA today is vastly over-hyped!
In your desire to rant, you are missing the point. Legally, they are no different. Note that we had almost all of the things in your second paragraph before phone companies were deemed common carriers. You still have not articulated a coherent reason why social media companies are (or should be) different.
Public utilities are designated as such because it would be inefficient as all git-out to string 12 or 45 telephone lines to my house, so that 12 or 45 telephone lines can compete with each other. Thus, telephone lines WILL serve everyone in their neighborhood! Government Almighty is sometimes correct! Ditto trying to place 12 or 45 hotels in a remote Alaskan town. And yet we have access to a BILLION and more websites! The difference is simple and clear!
Again, being a public utility is not the basis for being designated a common carrier.
Then "common carrier" is whatever 51% of the voters SAY that shit is! Which is why we have an endless dog-pile of "MY Team is always RIGHT"! 51% of the voters can prohibit or mandate ANYTHING that they want to, if they are all power pigs!
"A people gets the government that they deserve", H. L. Menken, paraphrased. https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/h_l_mencken_163179 Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
H. L. Mencken
Unlike with other anti-discrimination laws, Sec. 230 is voluntary. Social media sites may censor and curate user content all they like, so long as they are willing to accept liability for the content, like any other publisher.
Sec 230 has nothing to do with the article (or the arguments) above. This is a pure discussion of property rights vs Takings clause.
It's not an uncompensated "taking". The social media sites have been compensated with immunity from liability. That's what Sec. 230 has to do with it. The social media sites may censor and curate all they like so long as they accept liability for content like any other publisher.
"...so long as they are willing to accept liability for the content, like any other publisher."
The law (Section 230) currently protects on-line “publishers” from being sued for what OTHER PEOPLE wrote! Now THAT is a simple and good law!
You know, hardcopy rags often publish editorials from “important people” (Senators, CEOs, maybe even the POTUS from time to time). The rag will preface (add) “not the opinion or stance of this rag”, hoping to fend off groundless lawsuits. GOOD LUCK to them, trying to be greedy-lawyer-proofed till such time that “Section 230 for Hardcopy Rags” is added!
So shall we sue the NY Times if they publish an editorial by Trump or by Biden? And Trump or Biden writes lies (libel)? Sue the NY Times, and NOT Trump or Biden? On what planet is that “just” or “fair”?
Sooo… Your “fix” to all of this is to punish “publishers” (web sites) for the content generated by OTHER people? Those who post?
SOME people here have argued that, since there has been at least one (several?) case(s) of hardcopy rags (newspapers) sued FOR THE WRITINGS OF OTHERS, namely letter-to-the-editor writers (it was all well and good to authoritarians that SOME people got punished for the writings of OTHER people), then the proper fix MUST be to perpetrate / perpetuate this obvious injustice right on over to the internet domain!
This is like arguing that the “fix” for a cop strangling to death, a black man (Eric Garner) on suspicion of wanting to sell “loosies” is, not to STOP the injustice, but rather, to go and find some White and Hispanic and Asian men as well, and strangle them, as well, on suspicion of wanting to sell “loosies”! THAT will make it all “fair”!
NY Times (NYT) can be punished for what someone ELSE wrote in a letter-to-the-editor in their hardcopy rag! An injustice, to be “fixed” by punishing Facebook for the same kind of offenses! Hey: Tear down Section 230 to “fix” this? Or REALLY fix it by adding a “Section 230 for hardcopy rags”?
In 1850, I imagine that perhaps some people in the USA were saying it isn’t fair that white folks hold black folks as slaves. Let’s “fix” it by having a bunch of black folks hold white slaves, too!
What kind of EVIL person fixes injustice by widening the spread of more injustice of the same kind? HOW does this “fix” ANYTHING?!?!
Unlike with other anti-discrimination laws, Sec. 230 is voluntary.
False. Title II and common carrier are both voluntary and fine grained well beyond and well before Sec. 230. Further, if S230 is actually a nominal protection of free speech, it isn't voluntary.
Disney as a roller-coaster/theme park operator (common carrier) can't kick black people people out of their parks. As a movie maker, they absolutely can have an all-white or all-black cast. What they can't do is whimsically interchange one with the other and say because a roller coaster is based on a white-themed movie it violates their free speech rights to allow black people to ride the roller coaster *because they're operating as a common carrier while operating the roller coaster*. Section 230 was specifically designed to grant web-based and/or social media companies this additional protection.
I will add, agree, and even highlight, once again, that the reason there is so much disagreement about S230 is or does is because it's not an actual real legal concept or justification. It's a redundant, dis-informative cover story for illegal action. The sort of thing that ardent atheists and secularists (and Satanists!) would otherwise be keenly attuned to but, in this case, seem to take a break because the job of dispelling it is harder than winning a fight with the Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny... despite the fact that it invokes a Biblical parable in it's title and posits Congress in the role of Jesus dictating who is a Good Samaritan.
It's like arguing over what a Boggart does or is supposed to do. A boggart only exists to make Harry Potter look like a hero overcoming adversity. Section 230 exists to make Congress look like they held back the rising tide of online trolling.
To looters of both persuasions, clarity is oversimplification. MAGAts and the other parasites are ashamed of their demands, therefore cannot voice them with manly honesty--at least not in mixed company.
sounds entirely more like nice platform you got here ... shame if something something because people were allowed to say things
That's why we should support Section 230! Once in a blue moon, Government Almighty passes a law to limit it's own power! S-230 is one of those utterly Blessed cases!
When the Suprema Corte copied the LP plank into Roe, that limited men with guns from bullying girls and threatening physicians for 51 years. Then Twump packed the court with race-suicide MAGAts.
color me suspicious.
If'n ye are "colored suspicious"... Do ye get preferential treatment? NASA has announced tit's intentions to put the first colored female on the Moon... Call yourself "female" and "colored suspicious"... And GO fer it! And GOOD LUCK to ye!!!
(Twat I also want to know is, will there be fighting between the 57 genders, for access to 57, perhaps more, types of bathrooms on the moon?)
It's not the social media company 'choosing' to filter. It's Democrats in Congress and the Biden Administration. As soon as the Democrats actually obey the Courts and STOP censoring I'd say the actual problem is taken care of.
No, it's not. Social media sites also censor according to their own prejudices.
Just as they've always been able to do without problem. Recent legislation is entirely reflective of leftard government censorship going on behind the scene's. As-if that hasn't been busted open.
This is NOT a simple issue since it has almost as many exceptions as it does core principles. Going back to the physical property "exclusion" principle where it seems to be the least complicated, excluding women or people of color while doing business with everyone else of the "general public" seems to have been outlawed everywhere in the U.S. at the Federal level, so even at its most basic, the exclusion principle is not absolute. The usual test of property rights has most consistently been, "is there an overwhelming public interest that justifies limiting some aspect of property rights?" Someone above mentioned the difference between illegal content (such as child porn) versus free speech opinion (protected by the First Amendment) so that, although platforms can be required to take down illegal content, government may not require them to take down disapproved opinions.
Back then, political parties ran papers. When Dems won, the government announcements were published in Dem papers and vice-versa. When underground papers and National Lampoon came out, nobody pre-menopausal looked at papers unless seeking a job or selling a refrigerator or car. When Nazi Trumpanzees got the MAGA court to bully girls, the gloves came off and digital media became the underground press--just not vulnerable to planted dope or fake warrants. Musk became Goebbels, stalked Twitter to make it a Der Sturmer, but the Texas girl-hunting law hit the MAGA court. Tesla stock tanked. Musk is becoming worthless. (https://bit.ly/3TZDkRt)
Um...
... no. No, they don't. Objects do not have rights.
The owners of social media platforms have Rights, the platforms themselves do not.
Yes. They have the right to allow or disallow any content, so long as they accept legal liability for it.
That the PruneYard mall was a marketplace of goods and not ideas makes it an even stronger precedent. It was plausible for the mall to try to create a no-politics zone; people could distribute salad dressings, skin creams, and other commercial items, but not political ideas. That would be discrimination based on content. But no one can say social-media websites are no-politics zones. They want to enforce a discrimination based on viewpoint: Anyone may speak---unless they contradict the government's position on COVID, in which case they will be excluded. That is less justifiable than excluding the subject of politics altogether.
Online platforms don't have a right to aid and abet government censorship, and they don't have a right to commit fraud.
So if an online platform blocks certain views on guns or Covid or election fraud because of some governmental 'suggestion' then nope they don't have any sort of free-speech or property right to do so. They're acting as de facto government agents with no right to censor.
Likewise an online platform can espouse any political or social view it wants, left, right, white supremest, social-justice genocidalist, Christian dominionist, or fluffy-bunny Gaia worship, and can block opposing views as desired - as long as they are open and above-board about it. But when FaceTube claims to allow all 'reasonable' views and then turns around and demonetizes or shadowbans opinions held by tens of millions of Americans (and possibly even a majority of Americans) then that's not legit.