Elizabeth Warren Wants the Government To Investigate America's 'Sandwich Shop Monopoly'
The owner of Jimmy John's and Arby's has bought Subway, and a Massachusetts senator has concerns.

Subway might not be the only one that's freshly baked. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) thinks the government should investigate America's alleged "sandwich shop monopoly."
"We don't need another private equity deal that could lead to higher food prices for consumers," Warren tweeted Sunday. She was responding to a Politico piece reporting that the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is probing the private equity firm Roark Capital's $10 billion acquisition of Subway.
We don't need another private equity deal that could lead to higher food prices for consumers. The @FTC is right to investigate whether the purchase of @SUBWAY by the same firm that owns @jimmyjohns and @McAlistersDeli creates a sandwich shop monopoly. https://t.co/mAFuuFYA5A
— Elizabeth Warren (@SenWarren) November 26, 2023
Roark already owns the sandwich-serving chains Arby's, Jimmy Johns, McAlister's Deli, and Schlotzky's. Warren said that adding Subway to that list could create a "sandwich shop monopoly."
The senator has made a career of crusading against such "monopolies," regardless of how monopolististic they actually are or beneficial to consumers they might be. (Witness her war on Amazon-branded chargers.)
Her attack on America's alleged "sandwich shop monopoly" scores new points for pettiness. It also shows just how broad (and therefore meaningless) the word "monopoly" has become in modern political discourse—and at Lina Kahn's FTC.
It's easy to assert that something is a monopoly if you narrow your focus on the market or product being discussed. There are, after all, only so many national fast-casual restaurant chains focused on serving deli sandwiches. If Roark snatches up Subway, then ownership of that particular ham slice of the market may in fact look pretty consolidated.
But from the casual consumer's perspective, competition remains robust. There are endless options for getting a sandwich without paying a Roark-owned enterprise. Grocery stores, convenience stores, coffee shops, non-chain delis, and more all sell some variety of sandwich. And yes, non-Roark-owned national sandwich chains still exist.
Sandwiches, not being the most elaborate meal in the world, can also be made by most Americans at home.
On top of all that robust competition within the sandwich market, sandwich shops are in heated competition with all manner of other restaurants selling hamburgers (technically also a sandwich), hot dogs (debatably a sandwich), burritos (not a sandwich), salads, soups, Asian rice bowls, Mediterranean rice bowls, and more.
Consumers can, and do, flit between all of these options with ease. Even if Roark's acquisition of Subway gives it a stranglehold over the sandwich market, its ability to raise prices on consumers will still be hemmed in by this dizzying array of additional lunchtime options.
The original purpose of antitrust laws was to prevent the Cornelius Vanderbilts of the world from using their ownership of the commanding heights of the economy to raise prices and gouge consumers. Libertarians have long criticized such statutes, arguing that an existing monopoly can't sustainably charge consumers above-market prices as long as new competitors armed with new technologies are allowed to undercut them. And indeed, even tech companies that once seemed invincible are now being laid low by competitive pressures.
If markets can work in that arena, we surely don't need the government to police who owns businesses that specialize in putting cold cuts between slices of bread.
Rent Free is a weekly newsletter from Christian Britschgi on urbanism and the fight for less regulation, more housing, more property rights, and more freedom in America's cities.
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Fuck Liz Warren
Ooooh, no thank you.
Not with Cheney's Dick.
Nor Liz's Cheney.
What about George’s Bush?
Not even with a peace pipe!
🙂
😉
Aye
Yeah, you go ahead. I'm not touching that.
If this Marxist bitch gave a shit about keeping food prices down, she would apologize for her entire career in front of a joint session of congress, and slit her own throat as an act of contrition,
I’m really tired of rich communists telling me I have too much money.
Wouldn't that amount to some kind of cultural appropriation now that it turns out she's got about the same degree of Cherokee heritage as Ingrid Bergman or Bela Lagosi?
Subway might not be the only one that's freshly baked. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) thinks the government should investigate America's alleged "sandwich shop monopoly."
More like half-baked in Fauxahontas's case.
More like 1/1024 baked.
Pemmican Burgers aren't baked. (And I have Cherokee and Blackfoot in me, so I take no offense.)
🙂
😉
This is why you can’t put chicks in power.
Who would they rather make the sandwiches, then?
ENB?
At leas she would be good for something then.
Hey biatch, bring me a samich and a beer!
There's hardly a fucking fast-food chain anymore that isn't owned by some large corporate conglomerate. Yeah, there's exceptions like In N Out Burger or Little Caesar's, but they're the exceptions. Yum! has owned the Taco Bell/KFC/Pizza Hut chains for well over a generation now.
The main issue isn't the cost, it's that most of the food at these places are horrendously bad.
The main issue is that the food at these places is good enough for them to prosper, and you're an elitist statist for thinking that you know better than all their customers.
Or, he simply thinks their food sucks. Or are you going to start claiming anyone here who isn't a Taylor Swift fan is an elitist statist for thinking that they know better than all her fans?
He said
Thus he thinks it is the most important issue, not anyone else's right to enjoy food he doesn't like.
Stop the face-fanning, you sound like an even more neurotic woman than Warren here.
In other words, you choose to pout.
::whines that his shit-tier restaurants are being dragged::
::accuses the critic of pouting::
No, he's just calling BS on your hair-splitting to make some sort of silly accusation against him. We can all read what he wrote. I don't think anyone but you interpreted it as calling for any government action. He just said mean things about your Baconator and you got butt hurt.
The main issue isn’t the cost, it’s that most of the food at these places are horrendously bad.
The main issue is that it is unhealthy and addictive.
If socialist Karens like Warren are going to legislate and give us authoritarianism, let them at least abuse their power for something useful and outlaw industrial and highly processed foods/ingredients.
The main issue is that it is unhealthy
and addictive.Highly processed, high sugar/carb foods are actually addictive, in the medical sense.
Anything that brings sensual pleasure can be addictive.
Squirrel wants to hive you a hairy palm high five in agreement.
I don't know where that hand has been, so I'll pass.
🙂
😉
But are vegetables sensual, or sensuous?
In the case of Zinc-rich ones and oblong ones and hollowed-out ones, yes!
🙂
😉
True. Even pain can be addictive if one mentally anchors it with good things.
Bullshit. I have never in my life met a person addicted to fast food. I've met people who only ate fast food and the one liquid they would put down their throats was dr pepper, and they were/are fat disgusting pieces of shit who smell like a backed up toilet, but they are not addicts. Medicalizing their poor decisions just absolves them of their responsibility for their own state and dilutes attention and resources from people who have actual medical problems.
Yeah, distinction needs to be made between people doing themselves harm, people knowingly doing themselves harm, those knowingly doing themselves harm apathetically, and people concerned by the fact that they knowingly do themselves harm. Arguably, the last people are the only ones usefully (socially) identified as addicts. Everyone else is a variety of unaware (socially or otherwise) user.
Arguably, the last people are the only ones usefully (socially) identified as addicts.
The standard definition of “addiction” is dependence, lack of control, and negative consequences. Awareness or understanding is not part of the definition.
Yeah, distinction needs to be made between people doing themselves harm, people knowingly doing themselves harm, those knowingly doing themselves harm apathetically, and people concerned by the fact that they knowingly do themselves harm.
That is a useful distinction. And that’s why I’m making people aware: if you consume highly processed foods and lots of sugar, you develop a chemical dependence, and, eventually an addiction.
The standard definition of “addiction” is dependence, lack of control, and negative consequences. Awareness or understanding is not part of the definition.
It’s not part of the definition directly, but it is implicit. Without the implication of awareness, the definition doesn’t make sense. No one says or worries that a car is addicted to gasoline. Further, per my statement, there are multiple forms of dependence not (the rectification of) all of which are entirely consistent with libertarianism. Some people are physically addicted to crutches, they may be able to rehabilitate themselves but yanking the crutch out from under them isn’t a non-aggressive act.
if you consume highly processed foods and lots of sugar, you develop a chemical dependence, and, eventually an addiction.
“You develop an addiction.” =/= “The substance or artifact will cause you to develop an addiction.”
You do not develop a chemical dependence to refined sugar, protein/amino acids, or fats you were already dependent on those and, per my statements above, the forcible, or coercive, removal of them is not necessarily libertarian. Further, any dependence on HFCS found in refined soda drinks can be migrated to natural fruit-based fructose sources, gram-for-gram/calorie-for-calorie without any withdrawal. The same or similar goes for other gram-for-gram and calorie-for-calorie substitutions. And, likely by your own precepts, and calorie-restricted switch isn’t withdrawal, it’s simple calorie restriction just as if you’d put half the amount of gas in the tank of a car and got half the amount of mileage out of it.
Standard Nietzsche-an Proviso applies.
You do not develop a chemical dependence to refined sugar, protein/amino acids, or fats you were already dependent on those
You're confusing "dependent on" with "dependence". "Dependence" refers to an adaptive state that develops in response to repeated drug administration and is unmasked during withdrawal. Such a state exists for sugar, it does not exist for proteins or fats.
Furthermore, while proteins and fats are essential nutrients, carbohydrates are not.
It’s not part of the definition directly, but it is implicit. Without the implication of awareness, the definition doesn’t make sense..
Addiction is studied in mice and non-human primates. "Awareness" is simply not part of the definition.
Further, any dependence on HFCS found in refined soda drinks can be migrated to natural fruit-based fructose sources, gram-for-gram/calorie-for-calorie without any withdrawal.
I'm not sure what you mean by "migrated to". Fruit juices are as harmful and dependence-causing as other sources of sugars. Substituting "fruit-based fructose sources" does not change dependence.
Ackshuyally, you guys, sugar in the form of glucose is an essential for living things.
Where sugar and sugar cravings become a problem is when the pancreas cannot produce enough Insulin to metabolize sugar into energy for the body.
Most Diabetics (including myself,) can have have some sugar in controlled doses and, indeed, also have to watch out for Hypoglycemia (too low a blood sugar level as measured in Milligrams per Deciliter.).
Fortunately, Hypoglycemia has never happened to me below 70 mg/DL, nor has Hyperglycemia over 300 mg/DL. I usually keep it between 80-120 mg/DL.
(For perspective, I've heard of people in the emergency room with sugar levels up to 1200 mg/DL. Basically walking dead.)
Combined with diet and exercise, Metformin does wonders to keep the blood sugar under control and may also be anti-carcinogrnic and anti-aging. (Must investigate later, and I hope I can be in that trial study!)
Mounjaro both kick-starts the pancreas and, for me, suppresses appetite, but is very pricey at the moment. I hope to get back on that and save bigger on the grocery bill.
And for Diabetics, there is no distinctions between types of sugars or carbs. They are all the same and all need control and proper metabolization.
Whole fruit is better than juice because the sugar releases slower and body works harder to metabolize it. While fiber and whole grains are carbs, they are better carbs because they flush out other carbs and sugars down the toilet.
One day hopefully soon, between GMO foods with less sugar, free markets in donated Insulin and organs, prosthetic organs, and stem cell generation of Insulin and organs, Diabetes Types 1 and 2 will be like leprosy became 30 years ago.
We could all live on The Big Rock Candy Mountain without consequence. If only no one gets in the way.
Ackshuyally, you guys, sugar in the form of glucose is an essential for living things.
Carbs are not necessary in your diet; your body can synthesize all the glucose needs from proteins and fats.
One day hopefully soon, between GMO foods with less sugar, free markets in donated Insulin and organs, prosthetic organs, and stem cell generation of Insulin and organs, Diabetes Types 1 and 2 will be like leprosy became 30 years ago. We could all live on The Big Rock Candy Mountain without consequence. If only no one gets in the way.
Type 2 diabetes is a problem of insulin resistance: someone has normal or higher rates of insulin production yet their blood sugar remains high. A healthy person has both low fasting glucose and insulin (HOMA-IR < 1). Giving insulin in Type 2 diabetics is a symptomatic treatment that contributes to the progression of the disease.
Insulin is a storage hormone; the higher your levels, the more fat gets stored. You cannot make the bad effects of high carb intake disappear by injecting insulin.
Carbs are not necessary in your diet; your body can synthesize all the glucose needs from proteins and fats.
That is simply not true. The body would go into ketosis and permanent kidney and liver damage with no carbs.
Also, using just protein and fats for glucose in the absence of carbs would eventually divert protein and fat from other uses for the body, such as muscles and bodily insulation of fat for maintaining temperature.
Do Fats and Proteins Turn into Glucose?
https://www.livestrong.com/article/273899-do-fat-protein-turn-into-glucose/
And this list of the sources of carbs doesn't say a thing about fats and proteins as substitutes for carbs.
Carbohydrates: How carbs fit into a healthy diet
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/carbohydrates/art-20045705
they were/are fat disgusting pieces of shit who smell like a backed up toilet, but they are not addicts
Yes, they are. Both sugar and opiates activate the same reward systems in the brain, particularly the dopamine pathways. When sugar is consumed, it stimulates the release of dopamine, a neurotransmitter associated with pleasure and reward, like opiates. This is a chemical dependence just like with opiates, and when a chemical dependence causes secondary problems, it is an addiction.
Medicalizing their poor decisions just absolves them of their responsibility for their own state
I'm not "medicalizing" anything or absolve anybody of responsibility. You are responsible for your addictions, whether your addictions are to drugs or to sugar.
No, it's not "just like opiates" or even close. Some people really like sweets to a very unhealthy degree, but I've seen no one suffer debilitating withdrawals from sugar. Certain foods can certainly lead to compulsive behavior in some people. But that's not in the same league as the powerful physical and psychological dependence people get from using opioids or other addictive drugs.
It's not just the physical debilitation, it's the mental aspect of it that's arguably more important. How many people go on diets, lose a bunch of weight, and gain it all back? It's because they aren't able to tell the little creature whispering to them, "Come on, you've been good, you deserve a treat" to shut the fuck up and make healthy choices. It's only different from drugs or alcohol as a matter of degree. An addict is almost always going to be an addict, it's a question of whether they can control the addiction or not.
Some people compensate for this with "cheat meals" so that little creature doesn't fuck with their head as much, but they still need a shitload of discipline to not go back to consuming crap all the time.
It’s because they aren’t able to tell the little creature whispering to them, “Come on, you’ve been good, you deserve a treat” to shut the fuck up and make healthy choices.
I would argue that this is not the correct conception of the issue with food relative to alcohol or drugs, but freely admit my conception isn’t perfect or faultlessly objective. Drugs and/or alcohol require a level of calculation and discernment. Animals that eat themselves to death presumably don’t have little devil animal daemons on their shoulders telling them to eat more. They just do it. Conversely, a heroin addict doesn’t just break into the nearest pharmacy and steal the insulin needles just to have a substance to jab into their arm or veins. They will concertedly collect the required resources (money), locate and navigate to preferred sources, and intelligibly negotiate exchanges.
Compulsive over eaters haven’t generally developed a broader sense of self-control. Drug and alcohol addicts may or may not have developed similarly, but the substance can/has/does void it even if they have.
I wouldn't call that addiction. Cravings for food are kind of essential for life. Since we have so much food available, that instinct to eat all the delicious food gets to be a problem for some people. It may be similar to addiction, but I don't think it's useful to ignore the distinction.
If you're as fat as chemtard, having a craving for Hostess cupcakes or a MovieBob Chipman-sized meal from McDonald's isn't essential for life, though.
No, it’s not “just like opiates” or even close.
Yeah, it's he's obfuscating in favor of a tautology. I'm tempted to call this pettifogging. It's like saying because gasoline, ethanol, and NOX mixtures all sub-optimally propel cars to some sub-optimal end, they are all equivalently addictive and/or detrimental to the car.
Also, "activate the same reward system" is a similarly low-brow assessment. If I offer you $100 to break your leg and $10M to break your leg, it could be argued that I'm "activating the same reward system" but, in reality, $100 doesn't even fully activate the system that repairs your leg while $10M activates the system sufficient to repair dozens, if not hundreds of broken legs.
Yeah, it’s he’s obfuscating in favor of a tautology.
No, you simply don't understand what "dependence" means; you confuse it with "essential".
Proteins and fats are essential nutrients, but humans do not, and cannot have, a dependence on proteins and fats.
Carbs (including sugars) are not essential nutrients, but humans can develop a dependence on them, and via the same brain chemistry as a dependence on opiates.
Also, “activate the same reward system” is a similarly low-brow assessment.
No, it's a precise statement about neurochemistry.
No, it’s not “just like opiates” or even close.
Yes, it is just like opiates: it causes dopamine release and dependence.
but I’ve seen no one suffer debilitating withdrawals from sugar
If you switch people from a high carb diet to a low carb diet, many experience withdrawal symptoms; you don't see it because few people do this (hence the high obesity rates and yoyo dieting). The effect isn't as strong as for opiates since sugar is not as effective at inducing dopamine release, but it's the same effect.
I think there's a pretty significant difference. The neurochemical "reward" for fast food consumption doesn't seem to decline with subsequent uses. That is one of the key elements of an addiction, the need for greater and greater dosages to get comparable benefits.
I think there’s a pretty significant difference. The neurochemical “reward” for fast food consumption doesn’t seem to decline with subsequent uses.
And you believe this... why?
That is one of the key elements of an addiction, the need for greater and greater dosages to get comparable benefits.
No, it's not. The definition of "dependence" (and hence "addiction") does not require escalating dosages.
Just like alcoholics?
Wait, wait, wait. Studies have shown there is this one gene characteristic that.........
I have to agree. Not only all that but fast foods are incredibly expensive now and no one in their right mind would waste that much money when they can buy and cook for themselves. That is unless they’re stupid, fat and lazy.
Ackshuyally, all food is processed, from the time it grows from spore, seed, or embryo, to the time it is spawned, sprouted, or born, to the time it grows, lives, and dies or is killed or harvested, to the time it is prepared, dressed, cooked, preserved, wrapped, shipped, and sold. And it’s all dying since the day it was born.
Sorry to be a punch bowl pisser.
🙂
😉
If socialist Karens like Warren are going to legislate and give us authoritarianism, let them at least abuse their power for something useful and outlaw industrial and highly processed foods/ingredients.
If you don’t like what they are serving, don’t eat there.
We don’t need more laws to suit your tastes.
But I suppose you still want others to pay for your statins and insulin, right?
No
Well, yes, that's what "libertarians" always say. But unless you directly couple the abolition of food/drug/housing/... regulation with the abolition of socialization of costs, you are no libertarian. Assenting to one without the other just makes you a pretentious progressive.
You may have noticed that there aren't any libertarians in a position to directly couple the abolition of whatever restrictions with an end to subsidies on the costs. I get the point you make (and you make it often). But we already have the restrictions on individual freedom and we are already subsidizing the consequences of people's bad choices. You do seem to be philosophically libertarian to some degree, but in practice, with the things you insist on, you come off as pretty authoritarian with your insistence that we can't change any of these laws unless the complete libertarian minarchy is implemented all at once.
You do seem to be philosophically libertarian to some degree, but in practice, with the things you insist on, you come off as pretty authoritarian with your insistence that we can’t change any of these laws unless the complete libertarian minarchy is implemented all at once.
I'm not keeping you from implementing any policy changes you want; it's a free country.
I am simply observing that if you remove restrictions on personal choice without removing socialization of the costs of those choices, you are not a libertarian; in fact, you are a progressive.
How does an observation and justification about who I do and do not consider a libertarian make me an "authoritarian"? I don't even vote.
Don't feel alone. He made the same accusations of me that I wanted to socialize the costs of drug addiction while legalizing drugs, even though I would never call for that and have always criticized Medicare/Medicaid/Socialized Medicine/Third Party Private Insurance for increasing costs for those who do pay for their own healthcare.
He also thinks court-ordrred drug treatment and court-ordered or parent-ordered abusive STARS camps for "sex-addiction" for LGBTQ teens are somehow "voluntary."
Where he gets all this shit, I'll never know. Too much time inside Stepford and not getting out much I guess.
If we can’t have pure perfect libertarianism, we need more self ritighteous authoritarianism defended by accusing others of lacking true libertarian credentials or motive.
Crap, Zeb said it first and better.
Removing restrictions on personal choices without removing socialization of the costs of those choices is not "imperfect libertarianism", it is simple, straightforward leftism.
Defending the power to control consumption of processed food due to social costs seems pretty leftist too.
What I don’t get about people like you is… do you simply not understand simple written English?
If socialist Karens like Warren are going to legislate and give us authoritarianism, let …
Do you understand the meaning of the word “if”? Do you understand that given the reality that we live in a progressive social welfare state that is going to engage in regulatory overreach, but among those regulations, some are still preferable to others?
Yes, yes, yes. I'm aware of the tiny, technical "if" before your pro-authoritarian argument to allow a face saving retreat when called out. The thing is when we see this tenuous technicality over and over we realize the weakness of that "if".
That "if" might carry weight in legalese fine print English, but in common English speech it is only weak subterfuge. If you are sincere, be aware YOUR use of English is giving a very different impression.
Brix, it is this inability of people like you to have a rational and honest dialog that causes "libertarianism" to fail in the US and makes libertarians such useful idiots for authoritarians. Thanks for illustrating this point again.
Really? OK I'll think about that.
But, they can't help themselves. It's not their fault......said every advocate anywhere.
No, and I don’t take either of those.
No, and I don’t take either of those.
If you keep eating at these kinds of establishments, you will.
That's not even close to scientifically true.
Yes, it is: the consumption of ultra-processed foods is a strong driver of obesity.
Who said I did?
And even if you said you did eat at those kinds of places, who said you’d take the pills *and* do it on the taxpayer’s dime?
I know more than a couple Canadians who said “Fuck it.” to socialized medicine and footed the bill themselves (for treatment of both congenital and non-congenital diseases) in the US. It’s not like medical tourism or paying your is a completely unheard of concept... yet.
The main issue is that it is unhealthy and addictive.
Not in any meaningful sense of that word, it isn't. It also isn't "unhealthy" unless you eat ridiculous amounts of it.
Let me guess...you're one of the dopes who fell for Spurlock's Super Size Me bullshit, aren't you?
Not in any meaningful sense of that word, it isn’t.
To the contrary, the consumption of high sugar foods is "addictive" in the formal medical sense.
It also isn’t “unhealthy” unless you eat ridiculous amounts of it.
Sugar consumption by itself is unhealthy even without caloric excess. But fast food is designed to result in excess calorie consumption. It doesn't have to be much at each meal to accumulate.
Sugar consumption by itself is unhealthy even without caloric excess.
False. Most likely by your own precepts: sugar consumption to meet caloric equilibrium is healthier than a chronic caloric deficit.
Humans may not innately consciously be able to recognize when they're running a surplus or deficit and control it appropriately, but definitive to the physics: perpetual caloric deficit definitively leads to more rapid exhaustion of the reaction than a controlled equilibrium, regardless of the source of the calories (assuming micronutrient* requirements are met).
*I half want to check that you know what the term means, because in your religious zeal, you're actively denying lots of knowledge you should know/have.
"Without caloric excess" is not the same as "with a chronic caloric deficit". Try again.
I hated that ‘documentary’. He made deliberate extreme menu choices to reach his pre established conclusion.
Only because Jared Fogle had already stolen the didling little boys theme
The food wasn't always bad. For example Taco Bell used to cook the beans and meat in the back. Since the 90s at least the stuff has arrived frozen in bags that are heated in hot water.
That’s true, but it is notable that when they came under these conglomerates, the food quality went downhill fast due to the requirements of vertical integration. As you note, in a lot of these places, up until around the mid-80s-early-90s, a lot of the food was still made fresh. McDonalds restaurants used to make their own biscuits from scratch every morning, while Taco Bell franchisees used to get nothing more than seasoning packets from the corporate office as late as the late 1970s–the store owner typically had to source meat, cheese, and vegetables from local suppliers. Pizza Hut used to make their dough fresh every day, and it had that special crispy part on the edges where the crust got slightly overcooked. Now they use the same type of pre-made crusts Little Caesar's does, and the food quality suffers for it.
I understand the cost component is at work here, but there was a reason we started calling Taco Bell “Toxic Hell” in high school, and it wasn’t just to have a laugh. You could get legitimately sick from eating that shit.
"McDonalds restaurants used to make their own biscuits from scratch every morning..."
I used to stop into the McDonalds on 16th Street in Denver for their biscuits and gravy in the early 90s. That was some good shit.
It’s no wonder you didn’t know what a Cuban sandwich was, you have no taste at all.
The booze probably hasn’t helped either.
McD's was perfect "broke college student" food during their $1 menu days. You could get a cheeseburger, small fry, and small drink for $3.25 counting tax.
Ah, that's why the biscuits from McD's are always so disappointing now. I remember them as being so good.
There was a major stink between the owner of a Dairy Queen franchise in Charlevoix, Mi.and corporate when he wouldn't buy the frozen pre-made patties and instead bought fresh ground beef from a local store just a few blocks away.
Either corporate kicked him out or he left voluntarily, anyway he continues to purchase ground beef and other items locally and remains in business to this day.Just under a different name. However he closes down for the season in October.
Same for some other chains as well. Once upon a time, McDonald's used to use fresh ground beef and peel/blanche/cut the potatoes for fries in-store. Now, they get them frozen, and the taste is just bland and terrible, IMHO.
Personally, I've long believed that the commissary system, with everything partially to mostly pre-cooked and arriving frozen, is what ultimately did in Howard Johnson's. It's better to prepare and cook as much in-store as possible.
The corporate guys will say its for consistency. When all the stores get the same shitty frozen biscuits, they are indeed consistent.
Customers want to go to any McDonald’s and know it will taste the same as the one at home.
Well they sunk to the lowest possible common denominator while doing it.
That’s America, baby!
Sure, but it's not like the recipes require different ingredients. Biscuits are, what, flour, milk, a little salt, butter, and baking soda? Shit, Carl's Jr./Hardee's makes their biscuits fresh every morning.
Surely you jest.
McDonald's fries were never the same after they stopped frying them in beef tallow.
In Portland Maine there's a restaurant called Duckfat. Guess what they cook their french fries in. Yeah. Sublime.
Their motto should be:
If its not Duckfat, Fuckdat
That would get me to patronize their establishment.
If they used goose fat, I’d take a gander.
That one quacked me up.
I'll have what you're having.
Duckfat rules, baby!
Likely not. That bitch really is a model of pretentious nannying Marxism, isn’t she? So much to hate about her.
Perfectly stated.
IIRC, McDonald's Fries were originally made with beef tallow. That's what made them so damn good! Then, around the Eighties, they used vegetable oil (which Managers insisted we call "Shortening"--yeah, I was in the McDonald's cult for a year and a half) and they just weren't the same.
Yum! was spun off by Pepsi after that company had owned those three chains for decades.
Pepsi first bought Pizza Hut in 1977, Taco Bell in 78 and then acquired KFC from Phillip Morris in 86. Took more than a decade after that for them to spin off "Yum" since their actually being a competitor in the Fast Food sector led to pretty much every other chain in existence going with Coke as their beverage supplier (why risk making a company a critical supplier when they're also a significant competitor in your main business?)
Most towns in Mass have their local pizza/sub shops and of course the local chain D’Angelos, so why should she care? I doubt she even has eaten a sub in her life.
If Roark snatches up Subway, then ownership of that particular ham slice of the market may in fact look pretty consolidated.
Ummmm....there's Quizno's, Blimpie, Jersey Mike's, Firehouse Subs, and Potbelly. And that ignores that a lot of these chains are franchises. And, of course, all the mom-and-pops. Don't give her credit she doesn't deserve. Even on this highly selective definition of the market, Warren's claim is just stupid.
All of Warren’s claims are stupid.
Not her being part Native American, though. She's what 1/1024th decolonization looks like.
And 1023/1024th parts totalitarian scold.
FIFY: Warren is stupid.
And that ignores that a lot of these chains are franchises.
Also that "sliced meat on bread" is meaningfully distinguished and/or reasonably discerned, market-wise or top-down from "ground meat on bread" or even "soup, salad, and a half sandwich".
Agreed. I just wanted to point out that even in this very selective definition of the market, Warren's claim is just BS. I guess, in theory, someone can claim that delis are a different market from burger joints. But, it's hardly like the deli market itself is particularly concentrated.
You can take my $5 footlong from my cold dead...oh right inflation.
Yeah, someone hasn't eaten out lately...
Yeah... remember when Carl's Jr came out with the "Six Dollar Burger"?
They don't call it that anymore because it would be false advertising.
A burrito meal at Taco Time costs $18 where I live. $5 footlong. Ok, Grandpa, now tell us about the 5 cent Hershey Bar you bought your sweetheart as you walked to the Sadie Hawkins dance.
The halcyon days of the bygone sandwich Renaissance era. When anyone who stepped behind a counter and donned a pair of plastic gloves was granted the title of Sandwich Artist.
Real sandwich artists don't wear gloves.
If they are the Andreas Serrano of sandwich artists.
I recall a line by a young standup comic (though I don't recall him so well that I can remember his name) in the '80s that went...
"Does it bother anyone that a complete meal at Taco Bell costs less than a can of Alpo?"
Man, those were the days.
That tells me Alpo was either way overpriced, or too good for a dog.
They were 10 cents back then, thanks to Carter.
“The best dog food in the world!” said Lorne Greene while scarfing up a can!
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https://youtu.be/KZEbiqMsQ0Q?si=LdUZ6rW5rTAW-w8t
Taco Time is in Western Washington?
Taco Time is all over the Northwest. As far east as MT and WY and they even have one in Las Vegas. There were a couple in Los Angeles for a hot minute, but only transplants from certain areas have a taste for it (and even as someone who will always have a certain place for it after 8 years living in MT, it's really majorly disappointing in places where good and authentic Mexican food is available at every third intersection)
I remember growing up with 5 cent Hershey bars and 10 cent bottles of pop.
Comic books were a dime and a quarter could get you enough candy to make you puke.
Gasoline was .35/gal.
Someone has, they just wish Warren would look out for consumers by not spending trillions.
Jared is no longer their spokesperson. He got caught cosplaying Pluggo.
He should have stuck to drag shows with preschoolers. Then he'd be doing ads for Bud Light.
Seems ridiculous, Warren is Not Serious while always attempting to be Serious.
As far as libertarian arguments against anti-trust laws are concerned, such laws may be justified on free-market grounds where, e.g., the cost barrier to entry is high, or where it's reasonable to think that an implicit oligopoly or oligopsony exists. Different sectors of the economy have very different competition characteristics and there is no one-size-fits-all.
the cost barrier to entry is high, or where it’s reasonable to think that an implicit oligopoly or oligopsony exists. Different sectors of the economy have very different competition characteristics and there is no one-size-fits-all.
That's why we voted for Warren. We knew she had what it takes to suss all these complications out.
Good thing you and other Smart People are here to curate the economy.
i.e., "I haven't anything useful to add, and SRG2 has made a good point, but I'm too much of a jerk to agree with him so I'd better say something sarcastic to show my tribal loyalty and my own cleverness".
No, fucktard. I don't want you or other "experts" to decide what is best, or even better, when it comes to market manipulations.
How's one company going to "manipulate markets" by owning Arby's, Subway, and Jimmy Johns when people can just got to Jersey Mikes, or Firehouse, Panera, or Capriotti's for a national-chain sandwich? or go to a local deli, or the deli counter at a nearby supermarket, and get a better sandwich art a comparable (or even lower) price? or in many parts of the country go to a Bodega/corner "market", or Carniceria, or food truck, or "convenience store" such as Wawa?
I'm not even sure that most people would consider Arby's and Subway/JimmyJohns to be in the same "market", unless the definition were expanded out to just "fast food places to get lunch", but that then also means including MCDonalds, BK, JackITB, Wendy's, Taco Bell, KFC, Popeye's, Little Caesars, etc. and if one were to consider the sandwich shops to be a tier above the burger/taco/chicken options that might even mean including places like Sbarro, Panda Express, Boston Market, and other "fast casual" places.
Anyone with a real interest in the dangers of manipulation by companies with huge market shares might start with the hold that google/Alphabet and facebook/Meta have on internet advertising and information spread on the internet. As long as their party is the side that benefits from the manipulations done by those companies though, it's unlikely that Warren (or any other Dem) are going to figure anyone needs "protection" in an arena where 2 companies have, in recent history, controlled as much as 96% of the entire market.
" Different sectors of the economy have very different competition characteristics and there is no one-size-fits-all."
these are sandwich shops. probably the easiest restaurant model to open and operate. not sure what example you think could justify anti-trust interference, but the one at hand is definitely not it.
not sure what example you think could justify anti-trust interference,
No doubt if you put some effort into it you can come up with something.
Cost of entry to be a nationally franchised chain can be big, but in terms of selling sandwiches, the cost of entry could hypothetically be as low as $50 worth of groceries (couple loaves of bread, some cold cuts, some mayo/mustard, a knife and a cutting board).
Here in L.A., as long as you're not giving it to the homeless for free, there's literally no regulation, training, inspections, or licensing needed to set up on any sidewalk in the city...
The most Seattle story you’ll read all
weekday.“Fare enforcement” I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Fare ambassador J Herbert Sigmon, right, asks Edgar Vela to show that he paid his fare. Vela, traveling from the San Francisco Bay Area, thought his transit payment system from home would work here. Sigmon informed him otherwise and moved on to the next passenger. (Ken Lambert / The Seattle Times)
*head in hands*
That rate could tick up since citations returned this month, but it’s unclear how many riders will ever get to that point. Ambassadors only inspected between 1% and 2% of passengers over the last year, a far cry from the 10% goal. At that rate, the chances of encountering an ambassador three times to qualify for a citation are exceedingly low.
Ok, this article is now the unintentional funny of the week.
They've been doing that shit on Denver light rail for a while, to try and keep the number of homeless drug addict bums from sitting on the trains all day.
So, in Denver their "fare enforcement" actually "enforces" the fares?
Actually, yeah--they can kick you off if you don't have a fare purchase, and will even print out tickets like those guys on "Parking Wars" do with expired meters.
So, nothing like Seattle, where Fare Enforcement discusses your mental health issues, hands you a brochure about self-actualization, and moves on to the next patient.
Didn't we used to call such people, "conductors", at one time?
Why not hire each hobo to watch his own onboard encampment? That way they have the right to ride AND beer/meth money.
Oh, don't worry, if you're a cis-hetero white male with a job, they will hit you with steep penalties.
..a cis-hetero white male with a job….
In Seattle?
Keep it down, I'm not out yet.
They need to get Doctor Jones on the case
"No Ticket"
No matter who wins, nobody wins.
These fucking hypocrite liars present like they are trying to preserve "competition" for us when in reality they absolutely hate and despise competition. They love and idealize monopolies just not the ones they are fighting against.
The consolidations are attempts to control costs. Lefties want the costs high to discourage people from eating these options, which are considered unhealthy and contribute to climate change. Maybe they are just hiding their true goals? Of course it is most likely political pandering to their base. Liz says so - I’m with Liz!
How does that cost control get accomplished?
Antitrust regulations only make sense in industries built around natural or some other kind of limited quantity resource (telecom bandwidths, etc). You can't monopolize a strictly service-based industry because there's nothing stopping a competitor from entering the market. If Subway wanted to start charging $50 for a foot long anyone could simply open a competing sandwich shop next door. It's not like they control all the bread and lettuce in America.
You got a permit to buy that bread and lettuce, comrade?
They certainly don't control all the meat. They hardly put any on their sandwiches.
There’s a warren the streets and a warren the Middle East.
Oh good Lord. Just butt out already.
In other news, Universal Basic Income is now swarming the “news” webs (Build back better?). All while the U.S. stares at fifty year inflation. UBI will “FIX” it.
— NPR, The Guardian, Business Insider, Stock pages. The only expert missing is Paul Krugman.
It has a certain appeal when every is broke.
Biden will borrow his way out of this mess!
And Jim Cramer.
She does know that they all sell different items, right? I would never say Subway is too expensive, I'm going to Arby's. Where by her logic will also be too expensive, so then I would go to Jimmy Johns. Where by her logic is also too expensive. This is all to give people like her a thing to point too when prices get too high. These prices are too high because of big sandwich or big tech or whatever thing is too big this week. As long as we aren't focusing on big government borrowing/spending, the largest driver of inflation.
I can think of 33 trillion reasons why prices are too high. And not one of them is “industry consolidation under more effective management with economies of scale.”
Huh? Wat? Within about three miles of work I have about a dozen sandwich shops. Eleven of them are NOT on this list. About half of them are small mom-n-pops. Only two are Subways. There is no monopoly. Repeat for the hard of hearing: There is no monopoly!
Even if there were, the solution is to get government OUT OF THE WAY because opening a sandwich shop should be the easiest legal business to open. If there's a shortage of sandwich shops, then government is to blame.
Plus every convenience store, supermarket with a deli, and discount super center sells.......................sanwiches.
What, do you want us all to catch botulism and ptomaine poisoning?
So you're saying Elizabethan Warren isn't against sammich monopolies, she's just against sammich monopolies that aren't run by the government. Got it.
In other words, what she is saying is," I'm from the government and I'm here to help".
It takes some real work to get everyone here almost on the same page, but Elizabeth Warren managed it. So, congrats Fauxahontas, you made peace in the Reason commentariat possible.
Only because one particular individual hasn't showed up to shit up the comments.
Ideas!
It's not about her the person. It's about her terrible idea.
The owner of Jimmy Johns made a big deal about moving out of Illinois after the Donut King Pritzger won the governor. It still stings....
"Donut KingPritzger" had me laughing. He doesn't just eat the donuts, he eats the entire shop.
Perhaps 'someone' should investigate the democrat monopoly?
Arby's, Jimmy Johns, McAlister's Deli, and Schlotzky's.
There are more sandwich shops on any given south Philly block.
Actual sign at a Jimmy John's:
The Titanic was built by a committee of experts.
Noah's Ark was built by a dedicated individual entrepreneur.
Ackshuyally, Noah's Ark didn't exist and "Freaky Fast Fresh Delivery" doesn't fall like manna from Heaven, M'Lady Jimmy John.
*Tips Philly Cheese steak sandwich and cup of au jus from my own kitchen and rational mind.*
The F-35 was also built by experts.
Civil and on-topic? Just trying to understand Reason Foundation. So far you've got vomit and feces covered.
"We don't need another ... deal that could lead to higher food prices for consumers,"
Does this mean she's given up on her crusade for higher minimum wage laws?
Hey Senator! Know what doesn't cause price increases? Acquisitions in highly competitive markets.
You know what does cause price increases? Wildly expanding the money supply through profligate government spending. Y'know, the stuff you're supposed to watch as part of your actual job.
Anyone could do a better job running Subway. I haven't eaten there in years, but Jimmy John's is much better managed.
But unfortunately quite disgusting. Their bread is just... wrong.
Way too much mayo is JJ's main issue.
That is literally EVERY quick serve restaurant's main issue.
It's actually an argument I've made in earnest against minimum wage increases. Why should anyone get more than $0/hr if they can't discern the difference between a thin even spread of mayo vs. slopping a quivering glop of it on with a friggin' ladle.
Not long ago there was an expose about Subway, their fake chicken and fake bread.
Liz is just following the customs of her people, and trying to take a scalp.
Nice
Fun libertarian fact: according to their website Roark Capital is actually named after Howard Roark. That, all by itself, probably infuriates Lina Kahn and Elizabeth Warren.
I visualize "heads exploding" - thanks for the fun fact!
Do they have a Henry Cameron Sandwich that will belt you with the greatest of pleasure if you serve him?
Or a Peter Keating Sandwich that's made just like every other sandwich?
A Gail Wynand Sandwich wrapped in a scurrilous newspaper called The Banner?
A Dominique Francon Sandwich, open-faced, spread, and waiting to be taken on the granite fireplace?
A Hopton Stoddard Sandwich served with your favorite Human Spirit?
An Elsworth Toohey Sandwich made with a mix of The Communion Host, Hindu Curry, Nazi Weinerschnitzel and Soviet Borscht?
And finally A Howard Roark Cordlandt Sandwich, a unique sandwich with Dynamite flavor?
🙂
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Y’all talk out both sides of your mouths. “Small businesses are the backbone of our economy,” while praising the corporatocracy that kills them. You’re clearly not looking at the whole picture.
“ Changes to Amazon’s search algorithms or selling terms can cause their sales to evaporate overnight. Amazon also makes it hard for sellers to reduce their dependence on its platform, in part by making their brand identity almost invisible to shoppers and preventing them from building relationships with their customers.
https://ilsr.org/fact-sheet-how-breaking-up-amazon-can-empower-small-business/
Typical of people who have no facts or logic to back up their positions! Small businesses AND large corporate enterprises contribute to the economic activity of the nation and the world. Corporations can only “kill” small businesses if corrupt government helps them do so. What “Reason” and other free-marketers talk about is taking government out the market as much as possible to let competition - and competition only - regulate the economy. Sellers are not required to participate in online sales through “Amazon” but if they find it profitable to do so, who are you to call it unfair monopoly? Wrong on all counts – again!
Wait so people go to Amazon and buy something from a business they would never of heard of except from Amazon. This is a bad thing, right? Like a mom and pop store from WI, having my business that I would never have found. Guess what, Google does the same stuff with how it lists items.
And no-one is forcing them to see on Amazon. Etsy does great business.
You missed the perfect opportunity to link to the Panera vs Qdoba lawsuit, which ruled that a burrito was not a sandwich.
All sandwiches are some kind of food in some kind of bread...Unless it's Wish Sandwich, which the kind of a sandwich where you have two slices of bread and you *MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!* wish you had some meat! BAW!BAW!BAW!BAW!
The Blues Brothers--Rubber Biscuit (Live Version) (Official Audio)
https://youtu.be/YyZRg0v4x4I?si=mOdlwRER6qX5i1iO
🙂
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The Wish Sandwich is standard fare in all Mystical and Collectivized nations. Everything else comes from Free Minds and Free Markets.
🙂
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This kind of misses the point of anti-trust law – playing devil’s advocate here once again – by failing to challenge the assertion that raising the price of a fast-food sandwich “could lead to higher food prices for consumers.” This could only be true if one assumed that fast-food sandwiches were the only option for consumers to purchase “food.” Since that is ridiculously and even offensively false, I’m going to call a foul! There is no single consumer in America who is required to buy a fast-food sandwich from ANY fast-food service location – EVER! For shame! The socialist excuses from socialist politicians seem to be getting sillier and sillier lately.
Why can’t people just accept that Subway sucks?
And that got fixed, because they aren't Subway anymore, are they?
I want the government to investigate Elizabeth Warren.
Physician, heal thyself?
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Ok, Pocahontas, whatever you say.
Heap big white woman speak with forked tongue.
At any rate, it doesn't matter to me. I don;t touch that junk. No Mickey Ds, no BK, no Subway, no Taco Hell, well, maybe every couple months or so I'll stop in at Culvers and get a Ruben and a chocolate malt.
I tend to stay away from most restaurants anyway since I was nearly poisoned from eating at Mr. Fables. Woke up as sick as I ever could stand.
Wake me up when she gets around to college tuition. Not a peep about that being too expensive. Just "we must forgive student loans"
How can anyone listen to her and take her seriously on anything?
While I am impressed by the range of tangents this thread has gone off on, I was startled to see maybe two or three comments that actually raised what I consider the most important question to refute that economic ignoramus' plans for The Economy...
Liz, before you offer solutions like the ones you describe, if you can't clearly demonstrate multiple examples of evidence that such mergers always result in higher consumer prices, you've got no business opening your yap at all.
A decade or more, here in Raleigh, NC, Comcast actually published a public letter that argued that, if a second cable carrier were licensed to enter the local market, cable prices would go UP.
I had to read that one twice to make sure I hadn't entered the Alternative Reality Space along with Comcast.
Liz, until you can achieve a passing grade in an Econ 101 class, please just Stop.