Fani Willis Is Abusing Georgia's Terrible RICO Law
Trump and his acolytes' conduct was indefensible, but the state's RICO law is overly broad and makes it too easy for prosecutors to bring charges.

This week, District Attorney Fani Willis of Fulton County, Georgia, charged former President Donald Trump and 18 others based on their collective efforts to subvert the results of the 2020 election and keep Trump in power. Among 41 felony counts, Willis charged each defendant under Georgia's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act.
Reason's Elizabeth Nolan Brown and Jacob Sullum have detailed the charges against Trump, et al., including the RICO portion. The defendants' conduct was indefensible and a jury will likely decide whether it rises to the standard of "constitut[ing] a criminal organization," as the indictment alleges. But even apart from this case, Willis' proclivity for RICO charges is concerning.
The original federal RICO law was drafted for use against the mafia, allowing prosecutors to bring conspiracy charges based on certain predicate acts. It quickly expanded to include all manner of activity that was already illegal but could now be charged more aggressively. As Reason noted all the way back in 1990, "Ambitious federal prosecutors have now discovered RICO's many uses, and this poses a great danger to civil liberty and free enterprise."
Georgia's RICO law is even more expansive than its federal counterpart—for example, it does not require multiple defendants or an extended timeline to establish a conspiracy. Former prosecutor Chris Timmons told ABC News, "Somebody could go to JC Penney, shoplift a pair of socks, walk next door to Sears and shoplift a second pair of socks, and they can be charged with RICO."
The law also makes it easier to bring racketeering charges than the federal statute: As former federal prosecutor Ken White noted on the Serious Trouble podcast this week, federal cases must satisfy numerous "elements" to support RICO charges; the Georgia statute, on the other hand, doesn't specify any requisite elements, making it much easier to charge on flimsier evidence.
Willis is unapologetic about her use of the statute, saying in August 2022, "I'm a fan of RICO." As a deputy D.A., Willis was the lead prosecutor on the case against Atlanta public schoolteachers accused of cheating in order to inflate standardized test scores. While the state's decision to charge teachers and administrators as racketeers was controversial, it worked: Prosecutors secured 11 convictions and 21 guilty pleas.
Willis noted this week that her office has pursued 11 RICO cases since she became D.A. in January 2021. She has primarily used it against gangs, bringing RICO charges in 2022 and 2023 over a series of Atlanta shootings and home invasions. In 2022, she also charged 28 people—including Atlanta rappers Young Thug and Gunna—under the state RICO statute as members of the YSL gang, incorporating allegations going back to 2013.
RICO statutes allow prosecutors to bring charges using guilt by association. Kerry Martin wrote in the Michigan Journal of Race & Law that RICO "is not supposed to criminalize mere membership in a gang, but it comes dangerously close to doing so." Georgia's statute is even worse.
Perhaps Trump and his co-conspirators truly did "constitute a criminal organization," as Willis's indictment alleges. And it's entirely possible that Young Thug was party to committing felonies, either alone or as part of the YSL gang. But a conspiracy charge should require more thought and preparation than the "kitchen sink" approach currently available in Georgia and favored by one of its most prominent prosecutors.
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The people are demanding that prosecutors get tough on crime. Fani is just doing her job.
How does it feel having everybody know you are sock? I mean, why keep up the charade?
maybe really is a fifty-cent thing?
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Every poster here is a sock, you moron.
Except Ken Schultz. It seems that was his real name.
There's a difference between a sock and pen name, Shrike. When you run a farm of several "pen names" that talk to each other, and you hide behind them, then those are sock puppets.
Oh...
Well then yeah, I'm definitely a sockfarmer. It pays way better to pretend to be a dozen likeminded people than just a "liberal" from Georgia.
You got duped by Tulpa, dude. He impersonates others while accusing people of being socks. He's good at it. The only people who believe him are the small minds that can't accept the idea that many people can think differently than they do, so they insist it all has to not only be one person, but one person acting dishonestly. Shame on them.
Should I say shame on you too?
How did I get duped? I ignored it completely. It was not the first time.
I'm talking to S&M.
You talk "mean girls" and then call Spiritus, "S&M".
1. Do you have evidence it was Tulpa? Tulpa hasn't been around for the better part of a decade according to another commenter.
2. Then explain what happened to SRG's handle. SRG went to SRG2 due to someone taking over the handle, and SRG couldn't use the "SRG" handle.
1. He always says the same shit. After years you can tell.
2. I don't know or care. Fact is that the guy you're listening to is the most dishonest person in the comments. Makes JesseAz look like George Washington in the cherry tree story, and that fucker can't tell the truth from a half-pinched turd.
1. I've noticed that "Tulpa" seems to be more of a scapegoat by some folks around here.
2. The most dishonest people in the comments tend to be ones like Jeffy, Shrike, Laursen, and a few others I can name that argue in bad faith.
Tulpa, Trump, Goldstein, whoever it takes to maintain the narrative.
Every week I mute a Tulpa. I say "Hi Tulpa" to the same person and mute them. Next week it's back with a different handle. The one "proving" how others run different names is a liar who runs a different name each week. You think that's the honest one of the bunch?
Here's a bit of cut and paste from "The List":
Elma Delafuente, Emerson Shonkwiler, Carmen Bower, Sachiko Rom, Lauren Guido, Rebbeca Austell and Maxine Rehmeier. They are either Tulpas or a link-posting bot. But you get the idea. Always a first and last name. Always saying the same thing.
There are a lot of commenters here with a first and last name. I think "Tulpa" is more of a bogeyman for you.
So you've decided to be one of the girls. Have fun.
Enjoy the case of Bud Light. I hear they're practically giving them away.
Girls? You’re the pussy. Running from me for six months.
Oh my God guys. He posted a list!
Not the list I wanted to see though. ☹️
“The most dishonest people in the comments tend to be ones like Jeffy, Shrike, Laursen, and a few others I can name that argue in bad faith.”
Define bad faith. To me it means not giving the other person a fair shake. Not listening to what they say. Telling them what they think. Arguing with them about what they think or mean.
That’s different from making generalizations, using hyperbole, and trying stupid jokes.
What does it mean to you?
Conversations are easier when you agree on the definitions of terms.
Let’s start with Laursen who always seems to move the fucking goalposts no matter what you do. Bring a citation like he asks, and like the goddamn Knights Who Say “Ni!”, he wants something else, or he won’t be bothered to watch 30 seconds of a 30 minute video clip.
Oh, then there’s Jeffy who also moves the fucking goalposts when you press him on an issue. Then he’ll try to obfuscate and dazzle with verbal bullshit.
And shall I bring up a certain commenter’s treatment of what he calls “Saint Babbitt”?
I haven't seen that with Mike, but I don't keep track of every conversation. Regardless he's a nice guy who isn't intent on doing harm or being mean. I find jeff just shuts up when I confront him on his bullshit.
On the other hand there are people here who just like to be mean. I don't like them very much. And it looks like you enjoy their company. So I will treat you like them, and mute you.
Party on!
Wants all your posts where you attack people including threats of violence? Lol.
That is called hypocrisy retard.
Sarc is a pussy and a coward. Talks big shit when he’s drunk, then realizes what a horrific error in judgement he made. So rather than manning up and begging forgiveness, he hides like a little bitch.
Sarc is worthless, cowardly oxygen thief. He lives to consume cheap liquor and whine and snivel here.
I haven’t seen that with Mike, but I don’t keep track of every conversation. Regardless he’s a nice guy who isn’t intent on doing harm or being mean. I find jeff just shuts up when I confront him on his bullshit.
LOL!
Sarcasmic once described jeff and White Mike as the only real libertarians in the comments when he thought he could take his pathetic mix of sophism and fallacy to another venue without getting panned.
"I find jeff just shuts up when I confront him on his bullshit."
That's because I think it's cute when you do it on your knees wiping my jizz off your chin. I'm trying not to go "Awww..."
Now go fetch me another Ho Hos sweetie.
Hi Tulpa.
YOU WIN!
I can see you dancing right now "I got muted by sarcasmic, I got muted by sarcasmic, I'm so cool, I'm so cool, he won't call me on my bullshit because he won't read me, he won't read me, I'm so cool, I'm so cool!"
Apparently you seem to think muting someone means something. You do realize that if you mute me, it actually means I can call you out and you can't respond.
When I don't reply, that's you on mute. Enjoy.
No, that’s you hiding like the cowardly pussy that you are.
Why does anyone care who you have muted???
Wait, I have a first name and a last name and I criticized sarc; I guess that means I'm tulpa..
For sarc it is his trolling with strawman to deflect from any criticism of the left the few times Reason does post a criticism.
Define bad faith. To me it means not giving the other person a fair shake. Not listening to what they say. Telling them what they think. Arguing with them about what they think or mean.
Nope. But that certainly explains why you don't understand why you get accused of it constantly.
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/bad-faith-good-faith/
And a genuine thank you for admitting your ignorance. That is the first step.
You just described yourself and the mute crew in general.
I know it is hard for you realizing your number of allies went from 15 down to just 3. But it will be okay. Please don't harm yourself.
can’t tell the truth from a half-pinched turd.
Is that some weird Nor'easter saying? Pinching off a turd halfway just generates 2 turds. Unless maybe your anal sphincter is compromised and you could only dent it? Sarc was regaling us yesterday with a story that only heterosexual men like butt-sex, so he might be able to enlighten us.
Yeah, that was hilarious. How does he think HIV and monkeypox made the rounds?
To be fair, there was a lot of monkeypox outbreak photos of people's mouths.
I assume the tactic here is that when someone changes their screen name on their account without creating a new account the screen name becomes available. Right?
Right, so when you see a jeffy post, then a buttplug post, you can take jeffy's handle because he is currenlty socking as buttplug. Also because the dumb fucks are too lazy to get a bunch of yahoo email accounts.
Also, you’ll fail at taking chemjeff’s handle because he doesn’t run sock puppets.
What an incredibly inane conversation.
We know jeff runs socks. He has admitted to it.
Just like we know you did.
"Also, you’ll fail at taking chemjeff’s handle because he doesn’t run sock puppets."
Thanks for the defense
suckerfriend. Whenever I need a white knight you're there for me. Stuck like superglue to my ass.This is so hilarious. I'm losing my shit laughing.
I'm pretty sure it's not the original Tulpa. He was a different kind of asshole and much more restrained as I recall. There was someone using the Tulpa handle for a while who was more like whoever it is that keeps using new names every week. I'm not sure what to make of this latest supposed revelation about sockpuppetry.
But I've given up caring much about who which troll is. I find it much more pleasant to just ignore those who I don't want to deal with and otherwise respond to comments on the merits of what they actually wrote.
It's an interesting list, and Spiritus Mundi above describes how it seems to work. I was doubtful a few days ago until I saw SRG pissy about having to use "SRG2" due to his handle being taken.
Apparently, it seems to be a few sockpuppet farms with multiple users. The hardest part of running socks, I think, would be keeping all the "personalities" straight. A couple of weeks ago, Jeffy inadvertently used a raspberrydinners style comment and then tried to claim it wasn't his. Checking the page source code showed that it was indeed his comment. The sock master screwed up and mixed up the two "personalities".
This also explains the tone of some of them, and how similar the arguments can be from Jeffy, Pluggo, and Tony regarding child genital mutilation (aka gender confirmation surgery). The trouble, I would think, with using that many socks, even with multiple people running them, would be to keep all of them straight and having individual personalities. It might be akin to writing a novel with loads and loads of characters.
If it is really a few sock farms, then it's honestly a pretty remarkable (if annoying) accomplishment. But it's also not that hard to believe that they are all different people repeating similar talking points. You run into that plenty in real life.
And if the method of discovering who is changing handles actually works, that's very clever. I tried to verify, but all the handle spoofing made it more effort than it was worth to me.
All we need to know about you is that you posted dark web links to underage porn.
Then maybe she should focus on all the crime in Atlanta and not ex-presidents.
Trump and his acolytes' conduct was indefensible
Phew, I'm glad we got that out of the way as early as possible.
It's not like he orchestrated a coup to stymie and remove the President, he did the unforgivable of asking that the rules be followed in defiance of Democrat needs that the rule changes be considered valid.
The less we say about Imran Khan until this whole Trump thing blows over, the better.
Mike, jeff, and sarc all believe it was a coup.
I think you might be misinterpreting that comment.
I did. Why I changed it. Reread it and realized I read it incorrectly.
Other than there being plenty of defenses for them
Do you disagree?
Of course the simple defense is that Trump didn't commit a crime but because they hate Trump they feel the need to call what he did "indefensible" so that they can continue to claim that Trump is some terrible human being whose actions are beyond the pale despite him doing nothing past POTUS's haven't done.
Democrats have a consistent theme. They routinely defined the law, whether they are the perpetrator, or the government that they use some tortured mental gymnastics to justify committing an illegal act, or ignoring the law when they are the government.
The Trump prosecutions are merely an extreme example of this fact.
The entire article is about how he didn’t commit a crime, which means “indefensible” here must mean ethically indefensible.
Sussing the sense in which a writer is using a word is basic reading comprehension.
Why is it ethically indefensible to challenge the results of an election you believe was fraudulent? It happens all of the time. Was Stacey Abrams "ethically indefensible" when she challenged the results of the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election? Were the Democrats who challenged the 2016 presidential election based off an unsubstantiated dossier "ethically indefensible?" If someone wants to claim that Trump challenging the 2020 presidential election was "indefensible" they need to explain why it's different than when other election results are challenged.
Read the latest Federal indictment. While I agree that it is going after Trump and his allies largely for instances where they were exercising free speech, the indictment also clearly lays out all the ways in which Trump and his allies were bullshitting.
There are several instances where Trump is told by his closests advisors that something he has been going around saying is not true -- and then he turned right around and kept saying it.
That is ethically indefensible.
And deflecting by complaining about Democrats doing the same things doesn't change that it is indefensible.
No it fucking doesn't you liar.
A little hot under the collar, huh?
What doesn’t what? The referent of your angry comment is vague.
It's not vague at all you cheap shill.
And he had others telling him the opposite. Again the Democrats used an unsubstantiated dossier in 2016 to declare Trump's victory illegitimate and demand a special prosecutor, they used salacious allegations for which there was no evidence and they did almost everything Trump did in 2020( basically the only difference was the alternate electors) and several things that Trump didn't do( trying to get electors to switch their votes). So if what Trump did was "ethically indefensible" will you say the same about the Democrats in 2016 and Stacey Abrams in 2018?
Why are you deflecting again by talking about Democrats?
Deflecting from what? Your precious Democrats are the ringleaders for these kangaroo court political prosecutions and have a history of creating fraudulent evidence to back them.
You mean citing precedent? Why won't you condemn the Democrats for doing the exact same things that they are demanding Trump go to prison for? Why are you perfectly fine with prosecuting Trump for undertaking actions that until he did them were legal? If Trump wins in 2024 and the Democrats challenge the results will you be okay with prosecuting the Democrats? You seem to want a "but Trump" exception to the rules because Trump is in your words a "terrible human being." You don't care what the rules really are , you just want a man you hate punished.
It isn't deflecting. Talking about the Democrats is entirely relevant here. The Democrats have an established pattern over multiple years of using deception, media manipulation, agency overreach, outright fraud, and rules changes in order to attack Trump. Couple that with highly suspicious behaviors leading up to and during the actual election, it would more arguably indefensible for Trump to say "everything is OK here" and quietly concede.
If the Democrats had no record of these things, if they hadn't run 5 years of non-stop propaganda against Trump, and instead had been decent, "for the people" focused politicians, then Trump coming out with this would have been absurd and out of tone. But given everything that happened, the results flat out reeked of voter fraud. If a thief robs your house 5 days in a row, and then walks by on day 6 with a bag full of tools and a ski mask, what would you think is going on?
And if Reason still believe that there was no misbehavior either in the lead-up to or during the election, then they simply have gone blind from severe TDS. I don't love Trump and even I can see how insane this whole prosecution is. 4 indictments, 3 years later, 1 year out from the election where he's the leading R? Come on, they're not even trying to hide what they're doing.
There are several instances where Trump is told by his closests advisors that something he has been going around saying is not true — and then he turned right around and kept saying it.
Oh my god, he disagreed with his advisors! He must be a criminal lying liar!
Says lefty shit Liarson.
Trump is a terrible human being who has worked hard at undermining civility and political stability in this country.
I’m so sorry he hurt your little bitch feelings.
You mean civility and political stability by having your campaign spied on, the unsubstantiated allegation of him hiring prostitutes to piss on a bed because supposedly Obama slept there or having an FBI director brief then President Trump about those allegations for the sole purpose of being able to leak that the briefing occurred so that the media could report on those allegations?
Or maybe he could be as civil as Biden who said that he would take Trump out back and punch him, declared that a person wasn't really black if he voted for Trump over Biden despite being black, has called individual voters who questioned him "fat" and " lying dog faced" and other personal attacks?
Enjoy your race to the bottom!
Speak for yourself, Mr. Fire Extinguisher Man.
So Trump does the same as the Democrats but when he does it is "undermining civility and political stability?" Actually I would say Trump was much more civil than the Democrats and especially Biden.
No, when Democrats do such things they, too, are engaging in the stupid Red vs. Blue Team downward spiral.
Whenever the Democrats are caught red-hand doing something unbelievably shitty, Mike's there to blame both sides.
Does he really blame both sides? Because what I have seen is him blame the right and just ignoring the left. I have asked him several times if he will condemn the Democrats election challenges but this far nothing.
“A man he sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest.”
I always thought RICO required, you know, MULTIPLE acts. Not a one-off incident.
Perhaps Trump and his co-conspirators truly did "constitute a criminal organization," as Willis's indictment alleges.
It's possible... it's possible. Would you like me to make a short-to-medium length list of other things that are possible?
The main crime with which his criminal organization was concerned.....freedom of speech and petition for redress of grievances.
Yeah, right.
Their main concern was keeping Trump in office even though he lost the election.
Yes, most of the charges should be dropped because of their free speech rights, but free speech was never their main concern.
Their main concern was fraudulent elections as their contemporary statements and beliefs show. You are falsely attributing motivations about them without evidence as you do often.
You agree most of the charges are bullshit yet continue to seemingly support the execution of the law around political reasons.
The main thesis defended by democrats or those rationalizing their dislike of Trump and his team are pointing to the false electors. The problem is the constitution shows the electors have to be selected by Dec 14th. In 1960 Hawaii elected two sets of electors as there were ongoing court cases about the election. The same is true of Georgia in 2020. Yet you want to criminalize this act solely because you dislike a candidate.
The charges fall under a handful of categories from free speech to false electors (which precedence says is not a crime).
Please point to your rationalization to continue the plethora of charges against a political candidate you openly hate while claiming you are never biased.
What crime was committed here?
From your handle, you’re supposed to be all about gotcha’ing me with cites. How do you explain Sidney Powell’s confession that no reasonable person would have believed her claims about the stolen election?
Her claim was regarding one item, the one she was sued for, Dominion. She never stated all her claims were false. You did this with Giuliani too. Why?
Mike,
He makes a good point. Please answer.
JesseAz 26 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Her claim was regarding one item, the one she was sued for, Dominion. She never stated all her claims were false. You did this with Giuliani too. Why?
I have seen you do this twice. Where you take a single claim and then apply it to all claims. We can see from the transcript of the Ga call from Trump that his team had highlighted multiple avenues of fraud or illegal votes.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html
I made sure to give you the transcript so you aren't forced to expend energy watching or listening to something.
His team lists multiple examples. Likewise people are public, such as MTG, about family members turned away during day of voting with the state saying they already voted by mail. We have names.
Ga admitted that Fulton County had multiple batches of ballots scanned. The estimated count was around 4000. Fulton County delayed turning in their vote audit sheets and ended up creating fraudulent counts. Yet the ballot scans show repeated ballots in different numbered batches. These images exist on the internet and I believe aired on Fox. These claims have nothing to do with what Powell stated to a court in a defamation suit by Dominion over a single claim.
Why did you apply this as encompassing all claims?
Because he's a worthless gaslighting cunt.
Her claim was regarding one item, the one she was sued for, Dominion. She never stated all her claims were false. You did this with Giuliani too. Why?
Oh, please. "She was, by her own admissions, majorly bullshitting about one topic. Now, review every other bullshit claim she made!"
Georgia has had two audits and recounts. It's over.
Go through the transcript of Trump's call with Raffensperger. How many times was he told his information was bad; like at least a half dozen?
"Georgia has had two audits and recounts."
Look at you attempt to conflate recounting fraudulent ballots with audits. They didn't have two audits you disingenuous weasel.
You're just like Jeff and Shrike. Always trying to pull sneaky little tricks.
Cite?
Don't cite him bro.
Laursen's got me muted anyway for doing exactly what you've been doing to him.
I know. Why I finally created an account =)
lolz
You have InsaneTrollLogic muted?
He sometimes has interesting things to say when he’s not trying to show off to his man-crushes.
Never mind. Just muted the cunt. Whenever he finds himself being a reasonable human being he catches himself, slaps his face a few times, and says "What would JesseAz do, what would JesseAz do..."
Thanks. Apparently I just made "the list". Now post it, drunky.
ML. Think I'm back on top of the list. Suck it.
I just wish he would follow through on his empty drunken threats. I would thoroughly enjoy having a legal pretext to beat the living shit out of him.
I had him pegged to within 100 miles offering to fly out when he threatened me. He never agreed. Empty threats of a coward lol.
Yup. It’s OK, though. He created a new account just to post attempted gotchas in response to my comments — but he hasn’t taken the time to understand my comments, so he’s gotcha’ing against things I never said.
Dude, you are so wrong. Even more wrong than usual, dork. "Don't Cite Me Bro" has nothing to do with me one way or the other. Although, I'm happy he's also chewing on your lousy ass.
Mike can't stand that most of the commenters here see through his bullshit lol.
Mike. I saw you argue with him the other day. He posted your full comment and you admitted his response was correct. Yet here you are lying about it. That is amazing.
You blame others for not understanding your stances... maybe it is because you are in such a rush to defend the left you dont actually form a cohesive argument?
"he’s gotcha’ing against things I never said."
You put your right foot in, you take your right foot out, you put your right foot in, and you shake it all about...
Does that include monkeys flying out of your butt?
Well, Sam Harris says if Covid19 was completely different it could have been a lot worse.
Guess this is the same line of thinking by Lancaster.
actually, what Sam Harris was really saying was that if Covid 19 had been as dangerous as everyone claimed, then he would be right and you would be wrong. It's a subtle distinction, but an important one.
It's a bizarro-world attempt at a logical way of refusing to admit that one was wrong.
"Every argument I made would be right if the facts were completely different, so just shut up and admit that I was essentially right"
“Every argument I made would be right if the facts were completely different, so just shut up and admit that I was essentially right”
Says every democrat ever.
In 2022, she also charged 28 people—including Atlanta rappers Young Thug and Gunna
Add Fatass Donnie to this criminal element.
How about you? Your pedophillic activities are blatantly criminal. You gave us the proof here. Care to address that?
>>Trump and his acolytes' conduct was indefensible
what the fuck with the pussy equivocation?
That is what we do hear at
ReasonPrevaricate.was the rest worth reading? asking for a friend.
That isn’t what equivocation means.
it's exactly what equivocation means.
equivocation
ĭ-kwĭv″ə-kā′shən
noun
The use of equivocal language.
An equivocal statement or expression.
In logic, a fallacy depending upon the double signification of some one word: distinguished from amphibology, which depends upon the doubtful interpretation of a whole sentence.
It is exactly what equivocation means. In reference to Lancaster's silly use of "indefensible".
Sarc and Mike are on fire today. And by that I mean they should be lit on fire for their persistence in believing that words mean whatever they mistakenly assign as the meaning.
I am pro-human-torch here.
Equivocation: "deliberate evasiveness in wording : the use of ambiguous or equivocal language"
You are confusing constrasting ethical and legal indefensibility, which is an act of making a nuanced distinction, with equivocating.
I used to think you and others purposely misconstrue the meaning of what you read at Reason, but I'm starting to realize you actually have poor reading comprehension.
And you are deliberately obfuscating the issue at hand, dipshit.
Using the word "indefensible" when writing about about conduct for which there are strong ethical arguments in support (e.g. Alan Dershowitz' claims regarding the 2000 election), is indefensible. Claiming that usage is not equivocation is indefensible. Lancaster does it because he has the debate skills of an 8th grader. What is your excuse?
Their conduct has been indefensible. Trump’s current conduct is horrendous.
Laursen, now do Hillary Clinton.
Is behavior now criminalized? This comes across as a rationalization of support for criminalizing behaviors you dislike.
No, it shouldn’t be. Where did I say otherwise? Why are you trying to argue with me over something where you don’t even disagree with me?
Define indefensible in relation to a story about a criminal charge. That is your word.
Maybe instead of accessing others of not understanding you, write with complete and coherent thought?
You also spend an inordinate amount of time attacking those you later claim you are not for charging. Way more posts today from you have been attacking trump with 1 or 2 throw away lines about the criminal charges maybe being bad.
Do you think maybe you should focus on the non libertarian charging more than on the party or people you openly hate?
The very title of the blog post is "Fani Willis Is Abusing Georgia's Terrible RICO Law". How can it be made more clear than that that the author is not taking a position that Trump's actions were not legally indefensible.
>> conduct ... indefensible ... horrendous.
I'll take "ambiguity" for 200, 400, and 600, Alex
You should take poor reading comprehension for 1000.
And you should take out "obtuseness" for 2000.
Host: "It's the Daily Double! The category is 'Obtuseness'"
Mike: "I will bet 1 million dollars!"
Well, people are defending it. Doesn't that make it defensible?
Former Georgia lieutenant governor hoping Trump indictment is a turning point for GOP
.
Duncan, along with others, testified earlier Monday before the Fulton County grand jury, hours before it handed up its 98-page indictment.
.
“For the Republican Party, and myself, the playbook was familiar,” he wrote. “In the aftermath of the 2020 election, I earned Trump’s wrath for refusing to go along with his cockamamie schemes to overturn the election he lost because of his own lack of effort.”
.
“Most of the GOP in my home state of Georgia went along for Trump’s now potentially felonious ride,” he continued. “Now, that bill is coming due — not just for Trump and the 18 others who received indictments Monday night, but for Republicans everywhere.”
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4154783-geoff-duncan-hoping-trump-indictment-a-turning-point-for-republicans/
Stand up guy. One of the few good Republicans who put the Constitution over party.
So which sock is this speaking? Jeffy, Shrike, Tony, or one of the more obscure ones, pedo?
“because of his own lack of effort.”
This statement gives the game away. Love him or hate him, you can’t possibly say that Trump lacked effort and expect me to take you seriously. It’s not like he campaigned from his basement or something.
Oh, that's who that is. I kept seeing pictures yesterday and wondering when Kamala got so fat.
wondering when Kamala got so fat.
Stress eating. She's under a lot of pressure hoping for ol' Joe to finally kick the bucket so that she can be President.
Eleven conviction and 21 guilty pleas, no wonder RICO is the choice of the day. I wonder if Trump supporters were alarmed when the statute was used on teachers? I am guessing not.
I love the fact that this law was used on a teachers union and some rapper thugs.
Maybe Donnie should use 'Fat Thug' as his gangsta name.
So in both examples, and a gang not a rap group, it was a long running organization and not a single event. Which Rico requires. Never let reality or facts get in your way jeff.
You don't think Fat Thug had his gang too?
The AJC had the whole gang on its front page.
https://www.ajc.com/news/whos-who-in-the-georgia-trump-indictment/JPEAIY67SVGPTJ24JJGXMTXINQ/
Just Look at those hoodlums!
Did you miss the whole invalid for single events piece jeff?
If a boy scout troup commit a single crime they are not able to apply Rico to it. If they commit multiple crimes over a length of time they are.
On top of that the indictment is the single biggest example of denial of rights people have ever seen.
Can the DNC be charged under Rico for their legal maneuvers to weaponize law?
Should MAGA win big in '24 (not counting on it) I think that'd be a fine use of RICO.
If you twist and bend the law, there is a substantial RICO case against the Cunt®™ (legally known as Hillary Rodham Clinton), John Podesta, Robby Mook, Adam Schiff, and Robert Mueller.
And the sock farm talks to each other!
You really think Trump supporters are of one mind on everything?
Even Biden voters are divided over whether Biden is the best President in History or the 2nd best President in History.
That article sounds like a joke.
I see Trump supporters as two groups the gullible and the powerful. The powerful use Trumps hold on the gullible to use them and to extract money from the gullible.
Then you really don't understand anything about American politics.
What I really don't understand is your response?
Of course you don’t, because you’re willfully obtuse.
No more than is "the left" whoever they are.
Agreed.
I think we have a pretty good definition of that. The far-right: People who were skeptical of lockdowns, believe that people should be judged on the content of their character as opposed to immutable characteristics of skin color, trans is fine, but let's take it down a half a dozen notches on carving up the children, Ukraine war started before 2014 when the west moved NATO into 14 countries and started to push it into Ukraine, skepticism of Victoria Nuland, belief in free speech.
The far left: Normal people who are not authoritarian.
Facts changed!!!
Was the long running changes to grades a one time event or long running? Because Rico requires the latter.
Never change Jeff. Base your beliefs on ignorance and not facts.
Also find it funny that people on both sides were actually against its use back then, yet your side now cheers it on for political reasons.
https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-teachers-rico-20150416-story.html
It was a dem seeking a name that went after the unions. It wasn't a republican DA doing it for political reasons.
It almost seems like all these prosecutors are overreaching on purpose.
The walls never close in, because they aren't meant to.
But that would be conspiracy talk…
I think the goal here is character assassination. Charge him with everything that might stick, hoping something sticks, and convict him in the court of public opinion. Their only problem is that Trump just doesn't care and isn't playing their game.
It also costs him time and money.
The goal here is to give Trump enough press coverage before the primaries to suck the air out of the room and make him the nominee, then to destroy him before the general election.
And it's working. Biden or some other hand-selected Democrat will likely be president in 2024.
Keep telling yourself that.
It’s possible. They may just want to get Trump on the witness stand where his lawyers will not be able to conceal his idiocy.
Willis is unapologetic about her use of the statute, saying in August 2022, "I'm a fan of RICO."
What you talkin' bout, Willis?
Former prosecutor Chris Timmons told ABC News, "Somebody could go to JC Penney, shoplift a pair of socks, walk next door to Sears and shoplift a second pair of socks, and they can be charged with RICO."
Someone needs to let Timmons know that there are no Sears stores in Georgia. So unless some criminal syndicate gets their hands on a time machine...
That's an interesting legal question. If someone used a time machine today to commit a crime 100 years ago, would the statute of limitations have expired in the present?
Their is no statute of limitations on murdering baby Hitler.
No, but say you robbed a bank 100 years in the past. When does the clock start?
when it hits 88 mph
LOL
Outstanding.
And here I thought it was just bigger on the inside.
In that case my heart is a TARDIS.
Conspiracy laws are totally unnecessary in criminal law, just as “hate crime” laws are totally unnecessary. Either an act was criminal or it wasn’t and it was either intentional or inadvertent. To be convicted of a crime one should have known the act was illegal and one should have intended to violate the law. Motivation is - and should be - irrelevant concerning guilt or innocence. Accessories before and after the fact were already illegal and conspiracy adds nothing to the criminality of people who helped plan a crime or who aided in the getaway after a crime. Punishment should be fairly standardized based on the severity of the crime – and ONLY on that!
Last I checked ‘mens rea’ is dead, and has been superseded by ‘ignorance of the law is no excuse (unless you enforce it)’.
Ignorance of the law was never an excuse.
That statement presumed a fair opportunity of what the law requires or prohibits. This presumption can be overcome if the defendant can show that he had no fair opportunity to understand that the alleged conduct violated the law.
The defendants' conduct was indefensible and a jury will likely decide whether it rises to the standard of "constitut[ing] a criminal organization," as the indictment alleges.
Joe Lancaster wields the term "indefensible" like an 8th grade student in his first debate. It is without question legally defensible, and there is a strong case it is ethically defensible.
“…for example, it does not require multiple defendants or an extended timeline to establish a conspiracy.”
So one person can conspire with themself one time, for a few seconds, and still fit Georgia’s conspiracy law.
That hardly seems right.
Things will just get worse until we stop electing Black politicians.
I’d be ok with this:
Trump-Biden debate, 2024
yeah
That's a debate I might watch.
First, someone needs to make sure there are no side communications going to earpieces.
An interesting view from Alan Dershowitz:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12413181/ALAN-DERSHOWITZ-Al-Gore-2000-Donald-Trump-indictment.html
ALAN DERSHOWITZ: Al Gore, his legal team and I tried to find uncounted presidential votes, lobbied officials and fought in the courts in 2000. The only difference now? The candidate’s name is Donald Trump… That’s why this prosecution is an outrage
Electoral challenges have long been part of American history.
Only now are they being criminalized.
I was one of the lawyers involved in objections to Florida’s presidential vote in 2000.
A margin of less than 600 ballots determined that Governor George W. Bush rather than Vice President Al Gore won the state and, thus, the electoral college vote.
I was convinced then and I am convinced now that this result was wrong.
No one was indicted, disbarred, disciplined or even much criticized for those efforts, yet here we stand today.
President Donald Trump and 18 other defendants has been charged with election fraud, conspiracy, racketeering and more, under a law designed to take down criminal organizations, known as the RICO Act.
Should Al Gore have been charged in 2000?
What about me?
"What about me?"
No, you should be charged with Child Molestation Mr. Dershowitz.
They are fundamental to democracy.
All I hear is "wah wah wah, they're prosecuting our cult leader."
Cry more snowflakes. Put this traitor's ass in prison.
Got any cites as to why, Shrike?
Funny, nobody here is crying.
Try harder shitlunches/Jeff/shrike/whoeverthefuck.
Gosh, you turned super sour shitty once you were found out to be a sock, Raspy.
Maybe you should just go swallow a meathook.
Joe Lancaster's continuing existence is indefensible.
That is all.
At least there is an underlying crime.
There is no underlying crime in Willis' indictment.
Donald Trump dying in prison would vindicate this RICO statute.
Are prisoners permitted to use orange hair dye and spray-tan, or can we expect to see photographs of The Real Donald?
Just so bitter, Reverend. Much as I enjoy our exchanges, this is beneath even my lowbrow raillery. So much for being one of my "betters."
Correction: Fani Willis along with many other [Na]tional So[zi]alist soldiers are preforming a witch-hunt on Trump for threatening the growth (De-Regulating) of their Nazi-Empire conquering the USA.
No need to sugar coat it with soft-core words like "abuse".
So twice today Reason goes after a bad law but ignores the underlying corruption of the prosecutions. In the Hunter Biden case it is an unprecedented sweetheart deal. In the Trump cases it's unprecedented novel application of law for purely political reasons. These are indeed bad laws. It has been that way for a very long time. But that isn't the biggest issue in either case.
"As Reason noted all the way back in 1990, "Ambitious federal prosecutors have now discovered RICO's many uses, and this poses a great danger to civil liberty and free enterprise."
---
But that was then and this is now. As soon as the RICO laws are used to rid themselves of Trump, Reason can return to its previous position. It is just the same with their other arguments against prosecutorial overreach. There is that Trump "exception" to all laws and precedents that must be allowed and supported.
Charging Trump and the lawyers he was consulting with, to learn what his legal options were, as co-conspirators is really fucking rich. Way to utterly dismantle the fifth and sixth amendments because they're too inconvenient for you.
I mean, think about this. Trump thinks the election is bogus. Or, perhaps he even thinks he might have lost but still wants to explore his options. He consults with lawyers to find out what he can LEGALLY do to contest the election. He wants to explore every available LEGAL avenue of contesting the votes, of slowing things down, of requesting more audits and getting more evidence and going through the court system.
Those conversations are then used as evidence that he was part of an ILLEGAL conspiracy.
Explain to me how this isn’t the loudest way possible for a prosecutor to say Fuck You to the US constitution.
Like, imagine this. Night of the election, he realizes he's lost. He strategically decides to claim the election was phony and fraudulent as a strategy to run again in 2024. It's all purely strategic, he just wants to claim there was massive fraud without ever having to prove it in order to mobilize his voter base four years down the line.
That is 100% legal.
So as part of the strategy, he needs to make a show of presenting legal, completely above-board challenges to the vote totals. He has to repeat every claim of fraud as though it's evidence, and ask for any legitimate delays and legal avenues for contesting the election. He wants to be seen as the aggrieved party who was cheated out of his second term, and this is pure political theater to set up his second presidential run.
There is actually nothing illegal about any of this unless he's bribing or threatening people to actually reverse the election results. Even if he knows he lost, he can still request hearings, he can still lie (Free speech), he can file any frivoluous lawsuit (as long as he's willing to eat the costs). So if he's consulting with lawyers about he can LEGALLY pursue this strategy, everything he's done, even though it's all a big lie, would still be 100% legal.
Fuck literally all of these people.
Or imagine blaming your losses on a couple Russians running Facebook ads and seeing years of political investigations..
The fact is these elections should NEVER be so important and the only reason they are so important is because the US Constitution has been set a-fire almost completely by treasonous Democrats and their conquer the USA for socialism ideology.
In other words; No-one should expect a peaceful and prosperous society under a tyrannical socialist government. A lesson from history that's been repeated so many times it makes the phrase human intelligence embarrassing.
The problem is he nevertheless went on to commit a bunch of crimes.
Like what? He wasn't the one who changed election laws by executive fiat like a dictator.
Ironically, Rudy Guiliani used the RICO law in NY to go after his political opponent, Ed Koch.
No he didn’t you fucking idiot. He used it against actual racketeers, the Gambino Family. And Koch wasn’t Giuliani’s opponent, Dinkins was.
Someone really botched your talking point in translation there, moron
No no no no NO! The "They did it first" Trump defense means a it's ok because a Democrat did it first.
I don't recall Koch being Guiliani's opponent.
Rudy was an overzealous federal prosecutor. He continued his go get 'em attitude every time Ahmadinejad came to town or there was an art exhibit he didn't like. Rudy was not a friend of anything in the Bill of Rights.
Comparing any prosecutor to Rudy is an example of people who should not wield power.
She is using the law as it is written. If you don't like it, get the legislature to change it.
Writing about how poor the law is would be a step toward that goal, would it not?
No, she isn't. The law assumes underlying crimes. There are no underlying crimes.
This is the first I had heard or read of this.
The indictment as reported by Billboard does mention crimes such as murder. The article does not provide the details of how the prosecution alleges how Young Thug's personal actions or inactions tied him to the alleged underlying crimes. I am wondering if what the indictment alleged Young Thug did or failed to do were actually crimes.
Now, let is discuss the whole "Trump Colluded with the Russians®™ to Steal the 2016 Election" propaganda campaign.
For two years, I had no clue that anyone in the Cunt®™ (legally known as Hillary Rodham Clinton) Campaign, the Special Counsel's team, the network broadcast and print media, committed any crimes. It was not until 2018 that someone accused the Cunt®™campaign of paying for the Steele dossier and hiding the payment by classifying it as a business expense.
Now, the Campaign had admitted to this crime. Kevin Clinesmith plead guilty to altering an e-mail sent to the FISa court for the purpose of obtaining a warrant against Carter Page.
We have two crimes committed in furtherance of this propaganda campaign, initiated to help the Cunt®™ Campaign, then continued to overturn the 2016 election and to undermine the Trump presidency.
Was this a RICO violation? I am not familiar what the precedents are, but someone creative could make a RICO criminal case agains the Cunt®™, John Podesta, Robby Mook, barack Obama, FJB, Adam Schiff, and Robert Mueller.
""he article does not provide the details of how the prosecution alleges how Young Thug’s personal actions or inactions tied him to the alleged underlying crimes. I am wondering if what the indictment alleged Young Thug did or failed to do were actually crimes.""
Lyrics.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/young-thug-faces-trial-rico-case-rap-lyrics/story?id=96131812
Here is Charlie Kirk.
https://thefederalist.com/2023/08/15/how-should-republicans-respond-to-fulton-county-indict-the-left/
lol. Charlie Kirk. That's your guy? You're killing me smalls.
Any abuse of the law is justifiable if it is by the Democrats to "get Trump".
Democrats Were the First Election Deniers
In 2005, 31 members of the House objected to certifying Ohio’s Republican electors. WSJ
Kari Lake shows '150 examples of DEMOCRATS denying election results' - including WH press secretary
And let's not forget the two biggest Democratic election deniers, Al Gore and Hillary Clinton, who also tried to subvert two elections, 2016 and 2022.
Democrats were election deniers in 2000.
SCOTUS stole the election from Gore.
Trump haters don’t care if laws are being abused. Get him by any means necessary.
Not caring about political opponents being dogged by overzealous prosecutors does more harm to the republic than anything Trump could do.
^^ Trump fan
Wrong.
I don't like Trump.
lolz
Who names their girl "Fani"? No wonder she's angry all the time.
There was a conspiracy to overturn the 2016 election via the impeachment process.
You actually said that.
Of course, they wanted him removed from office before he was sworn in.
It is, apparently, "indefensible" to use any and all legal means to fight the evil, odious, disgusting, murderous, pervasive machine which seeks ultimate power and control over the citizens of America.
Why do I come here? This used to be a Libertarian site. I can just watch the John Stossel videos on YouTube.
I can't wait till that fat tub of orange lard is in prison. They should allow him to be publicly gang-raped first though.
You're such a classy act.
^^ Trump fan
^^ Nazi fan
^^ Trump Fan. lolz.
As a matter of I am... Very proud of it.
And I will always be a fan of anyone or especially any politician who wants to CUT the UN-Constitutional socialist empire conquering the USA and "Make America Great Again" by it's very definition.
It's you Nazi-fans that should be ashamed of yourselves. As if Nazi history didn't have enough de-stain and horror for your type.
I don't have strong opinions on whether RICO is ideal law, I just know a couple things. It ended the mafia as we know it, and Trump's "enterprise" committed far graver crimes than the mafia ever did.
If criminal justice serves any useful purpose, it's to deter future misdeeds. No misdeed begs for deterrence more than the attempted overthrow of the United States government.
Where did Trump ever "attempt to overthrow the United States government"...
F'En leftards. The only thing out-doing your projection is your delusions.
lol. who's delusional? TJJ2000 is! TDS for sure.
So stop electing Black politicians. They may be lawyers but they use law like Mandela and his ilk do and corruption is their middle name, just like in Africa.
Stop electing Idi Amin think alikes. You can tell by the color.
"The defendants' conduct was indefensible..."
So much for innocent until proven guilty at Reason.
I'm glad I've cancelled my subscription, but sad to see where this "libertarian" publication has gone.