Prosecutors Are Still Hazy About What Crime Trump Was Trying To Conceal by Falsifying Business Records
The continuing ambiguity reflects the legal challenges that Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg faces in transforming one hush payment into 34 felonies.

To treat Donald Trump's alleged falsification of business records as a felony, Manhattan prosecutors must identify "another crime" that he was trying to conceal or commit. But the indictment that was unsealed yesterday, which charges the former president with 34 felonies, is vague on that point. So is Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, who alluded to several possibilities in public statements on Tuesday.
That continuing ambiguity is striking, because the district attorney's office has been mulling charges like these against Trump for years. The idea was internally dubbed the "zombie case," because it kept coming back to life no matter how many times prosecutors working for Bragg's predecessor expressed skepticism about its viability. Yet here we are, nearly seven years after the hush payment at the center of the case, and Bragg still won't say precisely why he is charging falsification of business records, ordinarily a misdemeanor, as a felony.
Less than two weeks before the 2016 presidential election, Trump lawyer Michael Cohen paid porn star Stormy Daniels $130,000 to keep her story about a 2006 affair with Trump out of the press. Federal prosecutors viewed that payment as an excessive campaign contribution, and Cohen accepted that characterization in a 2018 guilty plea. Trump reimbursed Cohen with a series of checks in 2017. According to the federal sentencing memorandum in Cohen's case, the Trump Organization misrepresented those checks as payment for legal services under a nonexistent retainer agreement.
The New York indictment counts each of those checks, along with each invoice and ledger entry related to them, as a distinct felony. According to the indictment, that's because each record was created "with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof." But the indictment does not say what the other crime was.
The "statement of facts" accompanying the indictment notes Cohen's guilty plea, which suggests that "another crime" refers to his violation of federal election law. But it's not clear that a federal offense counts as "another crime" under the New York law dealing with falsification of business records, which is one reason that Manhattan prosecutors previously were leery of pursuing charges against Trump.
The statement of facts also says the hush money scheme "violated election laws." It does not say which election laws. But in a press release on Tuesday, Bragg said the "criminal activity" that Trump sought to "conceal" included "attempts to violate state and federal election laws" (emphasis added). In comments to reporters, Bragg mentioned one possibly relevant New York statute: Section 17-152 of the state's election law.
That provision says "any two or more persons who conspire to promote or
prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor." Assuming that "unlawful means" includes a violation of federal limits on campaign contributions, the money that Cohen says he gave Daniels at Trump's behest might qualify as a violation of Section 17-152.
Still, it's not clear why Bragg describes that offense and the federal crime underlying it as "attempts to violate state and federal election laws." If Cohen made an illegal campaign contribution, he did not merely attempt to violate federal law; he succeeded in doing so. Likewise, if he and Trump conspired to promote Trump's election "by unlawful means" and "acted upon" that plan, the crime was completed and not merely attempted.
The statement of facts hints at yet another possible candidate for "another crime." It says Trump and Cohen "took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme" (emphasis added). That requires some explaining.
According to the statement of facts, Trump paid Cohen a total of $420,000, which included the $130,000 hush money reimbursement and "a $50,000 payment for another expense." Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg "then doubled that amount to $360,000 so that [Cohen] could characterize the payment as income on his tax returns, instead of a reimbursement, and [Cohen] would be left with $180,000 after paying approximately 50% in income taxes."
Under New York law, filing a false statement "with intent to defraud the state or any political subdivision" is a Class E felony. But if Cohen mischaracterized a reimbursement as income on state or city tax forms, that would be a peculiar sort of fraud, since the effect would be to increase his tax liability.
At his press conference yesterday, Bragg again mentioned the tax angle, but he did not explicitly say he was relying on it to turn Trump's falsification of business records into a felony. "His wording was ambiguous in places," The New York Times notes. "At one point, he seemed to suggest that a planned false statement to New York tax authorities was just an example of the ways by which Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen purportedly violated the state law against conspiring to promote a candidate through unlawful means."
The indictment says Trump falsified records not only to "conceal" another crime, which could refer to an election law violation that had already occurred, but also with "intent to commit another crime," which could refer to future tax returns filed by Cohen. Does Bragg have in mind two or more underlying crimes? If so, what are they? "The indictment doesn't specify them because the law does not so require," Bragg told reporters.
Karen Friedman Agnifilo, a former Manhattan chief assistant district attorney, and Norman Eisen, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, are not troubled by Bragg's reticence. "In an abundance of caution," they write in a New York Times essay, Bragg "not only alleges violations of state campaign finance law but also alleges federal violations. We believe that is permitted, given that the fraudulent books and records and other relevant statutes refer simply to covering up 'another crime' or using 'unlawful means' and do not specify whether they need be federal or state."
Agnifilo and Eisen argue that Bragg has a "strong" case against Trump, even if the details remain hazy. They note that "the creation of phony documentation to cover up campaign finance violations has been repeatedly prosecuted in New York," although none of those cases involved federal candidates.
Other legal observers have a different take. "Based on what I have seen so far," writes Richard L. Hasen, a UCLA election law expert, "the decision to charge Donald Trump with felonies in New York state is a mistake both legally and politically."
Cohen said he paid Daniels at Trump's behest, which implied that Trump had solicited and accepted an illegal campaign contribution. Although Hasen thought that charge was supported by the evidence, he notes that the Justice Department never pursued it, "perhaps because of political interference from Trump's then-attorney general, Bill Barr." But even after Trump left office and Merrick Garland replaced Barr as attorney general, federal prosecutors conspicuously declined to charge Trump in connection with the hush payment.
"The federal case would not have been a slam dunk, because there were big legal and factual issues," Hasen says. "Legally, some have argued that these payments were personal expenses, not campaign expenses, even if shutting Daniels up would have helped Trump politically, too. Factually, to turn a campaign finance violation into a criminal one, prosecutors would have to prove that Trump knew he was violating campaign finance laws and did so willfully. Proving intent can always be tricky. Just ask those who (unsuccessfully) prosecuted former Senator John Edwards."
Edwards was accused of accepting several hundred thousand dollars in illegal campaign contributions from a wealthy supporter. Edwards used the money to hide an extramarital affair and the baby that resulted from it. Federal prosecutors argued that his intent was to avoid a scandal that would have compromised his campaign for his party's 2008 presidential nomination. Edwards argued that covering his mistress's living expenses was a personal expenditure aimed at deceiving his wife, who was dying from cancer at the time. Jurors evidently saw that explanation as plausible, because they acquitted Edwards of one charge while deadlocking on five others.
In addition to the obstacles that federal prosecutors would have faced if they had pursued a case against Trump, Hasen says, Bragg's case "has new, more serious ones." In particular, "it is far from clear that Trump could be liable for state campaign finance crimes as a federal candidate." Hasen adds that "state prosecutors may be precluded from prosecuting federal candidates for federal crimes under a rule called 'preemption,' meaning [charges] have to be brought by federal authorities rather than state authorities." Those "thorny issues," he says, "likely will have to be resolved by appeals courts over years."
Robert Kelner, an election law specialist at Covington & Burling, is similarly skeptical. "The local prosecutors seem to be relying in part on a bank shot exploiting Michael Cohen's guilty plea in a federal campaign finance case," he told the Times. "But there were serious questions about the legal basis for the case against Cohen, making that a dubious foundation for a case against a former president. Prosecutors also allude vaguely to 'steps' taken to violate tax laws, but they say little to establish what that might mean."
Legal questions aside, the moral basis for this prosecution is weak. The transaction with Daniels, while tawdry, was consensual. Likewise Cohen's fronting of the money and Trump's reimbursement. There was nothing inherently criminal about any of this. The payment was illegal only if it is construed as a campaign contribution, a questionable proposition that Cohen himself accepted only when confronted by a litany of related and unrelated charges that could have sent him to prison for decades instead of the three-year sentence he ultimately received. But even if you accept that contentious interpretation of federal election law, the question remains: Who was victimized by the hush payment?
Bragg thinks voters suffered, because they were deprived of information that might have influenced their choice between Trump and Hillary Clinton. Yet Trump had a long, widely familiar record of extramarital affairs, and it seems unlikely that yet another one would have swayed voters who were otherwise inclined to support him. And if Trump had used campaign money to directly pay off Daniels rather than using personal funds to reimburse Cohen, as the government's theory in the case against Cohen suggests he should have, the result would have been the same: Daniels would have kept quiet for the time being, and any scandal would have been postponed until after the election.
It is likewise hard to figure out whose rights were violated by Trump's misrepresentation of the money he paid to Cohen. New York's business records law requires an "intent to defraud," which in common parlance would mean that Trump used deceit to rip someone off.
Some of Bragg's critics say that element "requires proving that the scheme resulted in cheating or depriving another person of property or a thing of value or a right and that there is no such evidence here," Agnifilo and Eisen write. "That may be the case in other jurisdictions, but in New York, there is no such requirement. New York appellate courts have held in a long series of cases that intent to defraud includes circumstances in which a defendant acts 'for the purpose of frustrating the state's power' to 'faithfully carry out its own law.'"
The victim, in other words, was the government, which had an interest in prosecuting debatable violations of state election law that hinge on debatable interpretations of federal law. It is hard to muster much indignation at that injury, let alone enough to support 34 felony charges. The elevation and multiplication of charges, combined with Bragg's belated reassessment of the case's legal merits, reinforce the suspicion that the prosecution is politically motivated.
As Reason's J.D. Tuccille notes, other potential cases against Trump involve much more serious charges, including solicitation of election fraud in Georgia and his broader scheme to stop Joe Biden from taking office. By bringing a case involving relatively minor misconduct and "tendentious interpretations of law," Tuccille warns, "Bragg and company could delegitimize the legal process and invite retaliation from Republicans when they have the opportunity to return the favor."
Hasen has similar concerns. "This kind of case can give credence to Trump claims of a witch hunt," he writes. "It is very easy to see this case tossed for legal insufficiency or tied up in the courts well past the 2024 election before it might ever go to trial. It will be a circus that will embolden Trump, especially if he walks."
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That John Edwards guy. What a bastard.
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I know that you're trying to be facetious, but he really was.
Caused OBGYN insurance rates to sky rocket due to medical bullshit.
Too forceful of pussy grabbing? 😀 😀 😀
No nice guys have affairs when their wife is dying of breast cancer, cover it up, get the girl friend pregnant and pay off a staffer to say it is his kid.
Former presidential candidate John Edwards was accused of funneling nearly $1 million in donor contributions to support his pregnant mistress and criminally charged with a campaign finance violation. Here's how the case played out.
Edwards was acquitted of one campaign finance violation charge and the others were dropped.
Those experts don't have to look far to find precedent: The last time a grand jury criminally charged a presidential candidate for payments made to a mistress, John Edwards faced up to 30 years in prison and $1.5 million in fines. That was in 2011.
The felony charges the former North Carolina Senator faced in 2011 — one count of conspiracy to violate federal campaign finance laws and lie to the Federal Election Commission (FEC), four counts of accepting and receiving illegal campaign contributions, and one count of concealing those illegal donations from the FEC — stemmed from his own 2008 campaign. Each carried a maximum five-year term in prison and a $250,000 fine.
In the case against him, DOJ officials argued Edwards orchestrated a series of illegal donations to provide hush-money payments to his mistress, then conspired with his staff to lie about the affair and cover up the illegal donations with check memos like "chairs," "antique table," and "bookcase."
Legal experts regarded the case as shaky because the charges were not based on a specific federal statute, but an advisory FEC opinion that argued gifts made to political candidates should be considered campaign contributions, CNN and the Washington Post reported at the time.
After nine days of deliberations, a jury acquitted Edwards of one charge of accepting an illegal donation, ABC News reported, but was hopelessly deadlocked on the other five counts, resulting in a mistrial. The Department of Justice chose not to re-try Edwards, Politico reported in 2012.
"It's not illegal to be a pig," Brett Kappel, a Washington campaign finance expert, told the Washington Post at the time. "Is what Edwards did slimy? Absolutely. Everyone will agree it was reprehensible. But it's not a crime."
One major difference is that Edwards probably faced trial by a relatively politically balanced or impartial jury. In NYC, the jury that Cohen would have faced and trump will face would be pulled from a pool made up 95% or more with people who think that simply being named trump (or working on behalf of someone who is) should be worthy of a felony charge.
who gives shit about some never had a chance loser politician. playing "yeah but...so and so..." is a lefties ploy. stop it.
trump is being targeted by a hack prosecutor who ran his mouth and backed himself into a corner and HAD to serve up something, ANYTHING, to save face. any name brand lawyer...AND TRUMP HAS THE $$ FOR AS MANY AS HE NEEDS will kick the snot out of the feeble indictment. the prosecutor was serving up red meat for his whiney pals. this will end well for trump, not so much for the asshole who thinks he can build himself up by tearing some else down.
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I'm no fan of Trump, but the judge should toss the case out of court.
Of course, Trump won't shut his mouth (as the judge politely asked him to). He was even personally insulting the judge last night. So, it's likely Trump will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and get himself some jail time for contempt of court.
It must suck big time to be an attorney for Trump.
He's gonna milk this until the the tittles get cancer and have the nipples surgically removed.
But enough about your sick fetish for child mutilation.
I’m no fan of Trump,…
Lame and unnecessary.
I have black friends, but even I find this article offensive.
As a veteran who's no fan of Trump and has black friends... wait, what are we talking about again?
okay...that's funny!
A government official asking a citizen to shut up... very libertarian of you to applaud that.
"Of course, Trump won’t shut his mouth"
Imagine begrudgingly acknowledging that the charges are political and phony but still wanting to silence the accused.
Mike and Sarcasmic's "libertarianism", folks.
I'm no fan of Trump, but a lot of his enemies look like assholes.
That's politics.
Yet you've only advocated one to shut up with threats of contempt. Libertarianism 101.
The Judge has legal authority to jail him for violating a gag order and it could happen and I assure you he waited to do it until he was in Florida on this NY state case. The case is solid. its normal to charge by each event. As in Medicare Fraud and many other kinds of cases. Political motivation for prosecution isn’t legally relevant and won’t ever come up with the jury! It’s a trap by Trump to be debating the political motivation argument. Trump has no defense to this indictment. There are recordings of his meetings with Cohen and Weiselberg was in some of them. This case HAD to be nursed and prepared just this way. Trump will not be jailed for it most likely but he’s not going to let it go to trial. He’ll plead and pay a huge fine. Don’t be trapped into his game of changing the story to his being a victim for being charged. That’s a way people are being used by him. The story is his gaslighting of America saying the DA and the democrats hate him plus his constantly insuring that his supporters never read or see any reporting from mainstream or social media. If there were a trial and cameras in this courtroom he would be knocked down as hard as Alex Jones was. IMHO.
Parody?
This looks like a random collection of BlueAnon Twitter talking-points from before the indictment was released. If an actual lawyer read them he would probably gag.
Sarc or stupidity.
This is a joke comment, right?
There is no gag order, you ridiculous simpleton. The rest of your blather was equally stupid. Best that you take your "red herring" dross back to HuffPost where you'll be feted by your fellow retards.
Opinions are like assholes. And in your case you haven't washed yours despite a bad case of food poisoning causing explosive diarrhea.
Last I saw the Trump defense team are the one's that didn't want the trial televised, so as far as I've seen there is no 'gag order'.
It seems like low hanging fruit given the facts at hand that Trump doesn't want the trial televised so he can say whatever he wants about what happens in the courtroom.
I'd imagine the transcripts will be available at some point, and I'm equally sure the media will be on top of those like white on rice if there's anything there.
There is no connection between these charges and Medicare fraud. In order to make these charges “stick” it is necessary to prove the payment were made for strictly political reasons.
Trump could swear that he did not want embarrassment against his then or later wife. As a Trump hater you would undoubtedly charge him with lying. But how can you PROVE he is lying?
Just because you detest him with a venom that would melt a small city?
All that does is PROVE how much you detest him. Nothing more.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
"As in Medicare fraud and many other kinds of cases", defendants are charged for each discrete crime they commit. How many of them make it through to the eventual conviction and sentence is another question, but it would hardly be "special treatment" to initially charge Trump with each crime he is alleged to have committed.
And if he takes the stand and lies in his own defence, all the jury has to do is not believe him--they don't have to "charge him with lying".
The DA may have overstepped, but I have confidence that the US judicial system will treat Trump as well (or as badly) as it treats everyone else who comes in contact with it. Trump is wealthy enough to hire as many lawyers as it takes (especially if he doesn't pay them, which seems to be his habit).
The problem with your post is that there's nothing to suggest that Trump really did commit any sort of fraud. The jury needs to ensure that Trump is guilty of what prosecutors are charging him with, even if he "lies" on the stand, that won't mean anything if the prosecution fails to prove their case. Trump won't even need a strong defense the way things are going now (and contrary to what you claim, there's no evidence that his lawyers aren't paid).
You even admitted the DA went overboard with the process. So why are you defending that?
the case is solid? nigga pleeze. i sure hope you're never on a jury
Trump has every right to proclaim his innocence and give his opinions on the trial. A gag order on Trump would be a violation of his civil rights. Gag orders are generally on attorneys.
A "gag order" is the term for when a judge prohibits the attorneys, parties, or witnesses in a pending lawsuit or criminal prosecution from talking about the case to the public. However, a court will scrutinize any gag order under the right of free expression, protected by the First Amendment, and applies a heavy presumption against its constitutional validity, as with any prior restraint.
"Gag orders involve competing constitutional rights: the right to a fair trial with an impartial jury versus free speech."
And in this case, the gag order would interfere with Trump running for President. Don’t think that is going to work.
Gag orders certainly can also be imposed on defendants, and while there are Constitutional implications, they are regularly imposed by the courts, so my guess is that they aren't quite as unconstitutional as you imply.
Trump, being mentally incapable of controlling his outbursts, is almost certainly going to continue to attempt to prejudice any jury, and thus will likely soon have the opportunity to litigate the judge's imposition of a gag order during his presidential primary campaign. We might even see if his pet Supreme Court justices were "worth the squeeze".
As Reason’s J.D. Tuccille notes, other potential cases against Trump involve much more serious charges, including solicitation of election fraud in Georgia and his broader scheme to stop Joe Biden from taking office. By bringing a case involving relatively minor misconduct and “tendentious interpretations of law,” Tuccille warns, “Bragg and company could delegitimize the legal process and invite retaliation from Republicans when they have the opportunity to return the favor.”
“Bringing Trump up on tenuous lesser charges when you could bring him up on similarly tenuous but more serious charges leaves the GOP more free to pounce.”
I think the TDS has thoroughly turned his brain to mush. It’s just aphasic gibberish that generally reflects his mood at this point.
Reason staffers haven't been (literally) beaten up nearly enough in their lives.
The political motivation argument for prosecuting is the reddest of herrings! It is not legally relevant and there will not be one word of it in the case once a jury is seated. Of course it had to be filed and it took this long for reasons that are as real as can be.
Okay.
Well, if it's not politically motivated, maybe you can tell us what the actual charges are... besides orangemanbad.
Because not even Bragg himself seems to know what he's charging Trump with, 34 times no less.
and those are all misdemeanors that the statute of limitation has expired. The crime to elevate it to a felony is not even named in the indictment. This is a violation of the accused rights. An indictment is issued so the accuse and their legal representative can prepare a defense. How do you prepare a defense when you don’t the actual charge is not announced? More proof this is political and a fraud.
“Generally, Rule 7(c)(1) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure requires an indictment to provide “a plain, concise and definite written statement of the essential facts constituting the offense charged”
That felony offense is not charged or even named in the indictment.
In other words, so long as the defendant is Donald Trump, committing multiple misdemeanor crimes with the intent of interfering in an election is perfectly okay with the "law and order" set. Got it.
There’s no evidence of “intent of interfering in an election” by Trump, however, even if the Democrats believe otherwise.
What makes you think political angle can't be considered in a hearing? Attacking the prosecutors motives has a long been a defense strategy. Fuck, you claim a gag order that never occurred and then make a facetious argument based upon absolutely zero understanding of our judicial system and it's storied history. I bet you've never heard of jury nullification either.
The political motivation argument for prosecuting is the reddest of herrings! It is not legally relevant and there will not be one word of it in the case at trial. Of course it had to be filed and it took this long for reasons that are as real as can be.
The real motivation is that none of this is really about Trump.
You’re after the people who support him.
Good luck with that shithead.
Repeatedly making the same facetious argument doesn't make it any less facetious. Where do you get your talking points? ChatGPT is that you?
I give this sock a meh.
oh dear god, can we get more variety?
trump got indicted.
the indictment is garbage.
the whole circus around that garbage is likely to feed Trump's narrative and act as a shield for him if anything comes out of the investigations around Jan 6 and Georgia, which is where anyone with HONEST concerns of misconduct would have been looking.
how many more ways does this need to be said?
Your team fucked up. Deal with it.
never been my team.
You wear the tribe's tattoo, Shrike. Who do you imagine you're tricking?
oh, the dimwitted partisan mind..... only all in my batshit crazy or all in their batshit crazy..... nothing else exists.
This reads like Crazy Horse insisting he's not one of the Lakota.
yeah..... everyone on the "other team" totally will speak at length about how stupid that side is as well.....
you are one of the most pathetic hacks on here. your responses are basically just claiming the person you are talking to is someone else..... claim they are a sock or claim they are a die hard member of the "other team," no matter how much they say the other team is stupid too. you have about the limited range as sevo. are you a sevo sock? (you seem convinced everyone is a sock.... makes sense that your tiny mind sees that as a normal thing because you do it.)
That's right, Sarcasmic. I'm Sevo. Congratulations, you cracked the code. It was obvious since Sevo and I have exactly the same writing and rhetorical styles.
Are you perhaps a genius?
or perhaps you are just a moron who can't understand an obvious example of how fucking lame your arguments are.
you tell people there are someone they are not.
you tell people they believe things they have never said.
you can't fathom anything more complex than two sides.
you contribute nothing meaningful to anything.
Then maybe give us an obvious example of how fucking lame my arguments are, instead of stomping your foot and composing angry lyrics like a fourteen year old girl.
Reason can simply never do right. They say too much, they say too little. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
It’s just a blog to read with coffee.
A collection of links to start your morning.
What does Jan 6 have to do with Trump,?
you can't possibly be that disconnected from reality.
Is Maxine Waters personally responsible anytime a progressive attacks a Republican congressperson?
if she set up a rally specifically to target that congressperson outside their house, and then stayed quiet for hours while the crowd she assembled stormed that house (that she had just told them to storm)..... maybe.
but then, i don't know that trump should be held responsible for J6 because i do not know everything about what he knew or intended. i know that it looks bad, and i think the investigation is warranted.... but i make zero claims on whether he actually did anything criminal or if it is just him generally being a terrible human being, like Maxine Waters.
Are you ignorant to the BLM riots?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/maxine-waters-derek-chauvin-blm/index.html
are you ignorant of what i just fucking said? i neither defended her nor asserted that Trump's actions were criminal.
i did not say she should not be held liable if her actions caused violence. i didn't say that trump was definitely liable for his actions. i DID say they are both terrible human beings. the only one who wants any double standard here is you.
You said you weren't aware of her speeches or concurrent violence.
I again ask. Are you ignorant of the BLM riots?
Doublethink 101
"You said you weren’t aware of her speeches or concurrent violence."
where, exactly, did i say that? is it the part where i described a hypothetical that looks kinda like what Trump did but that you know has some striking differences from what she, herself, did? the part where i allow for the equivalence i know you are trying to assert? are you saying that i'm not aware because i'm refusing to try and assert the ways it is different?
let me ask you a question. do YOU think she should be held liable?
followup questions:
if your answer to the above is "yes," then how does that make Trump's actions OK.
if your answer to the above is "no" then WTF are you even going on about?
Trump didn't set up the rally.
He spoke there on invitation, but others set it up.
It was just a coincidence he promoted it on Twitter, definitely not a conspiracy!
You have no evidence of your claim. You have no proof that Trump orchestrated any of it. Get that into your head.
No, let's explore this, Shrike. Are you claiming Trump deliberately incited the January 6 rioters? If so, how? And are you claiming it was an "insurrection"?
still not shrike, dipshit.
and i have not claimed anything. i have said there is an investigation and SOMETHING might come out of it. i make no claims what that might be or if i will consider it legitimate when/if it does. i have only said that if someone were HONESTLY looking for wrongdoing by trump, they would be looking there and not trying to inflate BS record keeping errors.
so shove your straw men up your ass.
I just know there’s a pony in this pile of horse shit!
lmao... You gave me a really good laugh on that one.
"so shove your straw men up your ass."
Maybe he's actually Sarcasmic, seeing as he doesn't seem to know what strawmen argumentation actually is.
We'll add that to a very long list of issues of which the TDS-addled shit is ignorant.
strawman: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
like trying to argue against use of the word "insurrection," or claims that trump deliberately incited the rioters..... both things i never said.
I never claimed you said them. I asked if you, personally, believe them, as it seems to be your tribe's wont regarding J6.
And you evaded answering with a phony strawman accusation.
So I'll ask you again, are you claiming Trump deliberately incited the January 6 rioters? If so, how? And are you claiming it was an “insurrection”?
so.... you are not trying to fight a straw man.... but you are asserting that my "tribe" thinks so.... and are demanding i answer your "question" so you can fight it. someone with any intelligence would infer the answer from the fact that i pointed out it is a fucking straw man. IT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT I HAVE MADE.
Good dodge. When pushed to answer a simple question attack the questionnaire. That seems legit.
Sarcasmic level argumentation and evasion. Must be two bottles in.
"IT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT I HAVE MADE."
I asked you a question regarding your invoking of J6. I didn't make a statement.
Now quit evading and answer the question.
go over to cnn, the atlantic, guardian and usa today ... they are all droning on about what a brilliant legal maneuver it was for bragg to charge trump with falsifying business records
the fact that any "legal maneuver" was needed tells you all you need to know about these particular charges.
if they nail Trump for anything, it has to be so clearly wrong that a 5yr old could explain it to you.
JesseAZ: "When you lose the legal analysts of CNN, MSNBC, the Atlantic, and others… blame them all to be MAGA."
I think one of you might be wrong.
Thing is, they're praising Bragg for going with the prosecution in spite of what their own analysts say. Both can be right.
"the whole circus around that garbage is likely to feed Trump’s narrative"
I love that observing and talking about the realty of a situation is "feeding a narrative."
every good BS artist knows to wrap it around a kernel of truth. this DA just gave the desired narrative a great big kernel.
So it’s true that it’s a witch hunt?
some of it is, and some of it is not. one of my biggest problems with what this DA has done is that it will cause more people to ignore the latter because of this clear example of the former.
What part is valid?
i think i was clear on that in my first post. (sorry, i know you were wanting some kind of list so you could strongly disagree with one thing and ignore the rest.)
You weren't clear. Which one is valid.
read it again:
"the whole circus around that garbage is likely to feed Trump’s narrative and act as a shield for him if anything comes out of the investigations around Jan 6 and Georgia, which is where anyone with HONEST concerns of misconduct would have been looking."
Let's try again. What specific crime in ga or j6.
What is valid about those investigations.
the investigations are legitimate. we know that January 6th was a result of Trump's obsession with the stolen election theory and him calling that rally on the day of the certification. we don't know his intentions or if he was even smart enough to see that potential outcome. we know he was pressuring state officials to overturn election results. we don't know if he crossed the line. there is a lot we don't know, and that lack of information to say one way or another is what makes the investigations legitimate.
i make no claims for any specific crime because i don't know the details yet..... and neither do you. but we both know that should any legitimate charges come out of them, they will be summarily dismissed because of these illegitimate charges. this NY DA has given Trump's cult the straw man they will need if something more serious comes out of them.
side note, interesting that you are clawing for a small win here while ignoring my response to your other comments above....
"the investigations are legitimate."
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled shit-pile.
"Let’s try again. What specific crime in ga or j6.
What is valid about those investigations."
The TDS-addled shit-pile is more than happy to investigate Trump 24/7/365; he must have done SOMETHUING illegal!
The TDS-addled shit-pile does not understand that in the US, you start with a suspicion of a crime and investigate that.
The TDS-addled shit-pile assumes you start an investigation in the hopes of finding a crime.
The TDS-addled shit-pile is lacking quite a bit of what might be termed 'intelligence, but he makes up for it by bring his raging case of TDS to the table.
Let’s go further, ignoring the asshole’s inability to find the shift key:
“the investigations are legitimate. we know that January 6th was a result of Trump’s obsession with the stolen election theory and him calling that rally on the day of the certification…”
We KNOW nothing or the sort, asshole. TDS-addled shits assume so; the rest of us laugh.
“…we know he was pressuring state officials to overturn election results…”
We KNOW nothing of the sort, asshole. TDS-addled shits assume so; the rest of us laugh.
“…we don’t know if he crossed the line..”
What line, asshole?
“there is a lot we don’t know, and that lack of information to say one way or another is what makes the investigations legitimate…”
That lack of certainty regarding any of your bullshit proves you both have no idea about what qualifies as ‘investigation’ in the US and that you are a TDS-addled pile of shit.
Fuck off and die.
"i think i was clear on that in my first post. (sorry, i know you were wanting some kind of list so you could strongly disagree with one thing and ignore the rest.)"
Here's your first post:
"oh dear god, can we get more variety?
trump got indicted.
the indictment is garbage.
the whole circus around that garbage is likely to feed Trump’s narrative and act as a shield for him if anything comes out of the investigations around Jan 6 and Georgia, which is where anyone with HONEST concerns of misconduct would have been looking.
how many more ways does this need to be said?"
Where's the crime?
One of your biggest problems is that you're too fucking stupid to live.
Fuck off and die.
you forgot to work in a TDS or two.
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled shit-pile
SQUAWK!!!!!!!
Shrike did a funny.
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled shit-pile
This comment section is riddled with Maga supporters who haven’t and never will read the indictment or learn anything about the case. Without cameras in the courtroom and a trial they will never understand the case and the facts and they don’t care. That’s one of Trump’s special gifts—to have so many supporters who complain and attack mere sedate conversations about the facts and the law.
Has to be parody.
When you lose the legal analysts of CNN, MSNBC, the Atlantic, and others... blame them all to be MAGA.
Has to be a parody. There's no way it's anything else.
"This comment section is riddled with Maga supporters who haven’t and never will read the indictment"
So tell us. What is the indictment about?
And after you tell us you might want to share it with Bragg's grand jury and the NY DA's office, because they don't seem to know either.
yes, please do tell us how a nebulous pleading with a paucity of facts is compelling. a bonecrusher attorney will tear through this like a bum through a baloney sammich. fortunately trump has the means to stick his head on a pike
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled shit-pile
Sorry that something happening for the first time in the 250 year history of the Republic is generating a lot of discussion. It must be so difficult for you.
is it really "discussion" to just keep saying the same thing over and over and over?
and, no matter how "historic" this may be, nobody with more than 2 brain cells thinks it will succeed. if anything, there is a real good chance that those other investigations will decide not to bring those potentially more legitimate charges forward after watching this circus. at the end of the day, the story is a DA abusing his power. and the only thing "historic" about that is the person he chose to abuse it on.
and, no matter how “historic” this may be, nobody with more than 2 brain cells thinks it will succeed.
Which is probably why people are so upset about it, it's blatantly political bullshit, trying to turn "being a member of the opposing party" into a criminal offense. That's a big deal even if the attempt fails.
i get why people are angry. i have said elsewhere that it is odd to be agreeing with the Trump suckers so much on this issue.
of course they are all still here to attack me because i don't buy 100% of what Trump says about everything else, too.
"i get why people are angry. i have said elsewhere that it is odd to be agreeing with the Trump suckers so much on this issue."
Better than TDS-addled asshole suckers, TDS-addled asshole sucker.
Fuck off and die.
I mean, Trump was criticized for even *saying* "Lock Her Up", because "we don't jail political opponents in this country." He never actually locked her up. But on the other side we apparently now have people in power willing to actually do it.
Who is "upset"? The 100 people who bothered to show up at the courthouse on Tuesday? The 60% polled who approved of the indictment? https://nypost.com/2023/04/03/poll-76-say-trump-indictment-political-but-60-approve/
Or just the seething Qanon nutjobs mainly found in places like the Reason comments section?
You're dismissing plenty of those who are protesting against Trump's indictment. You're also approving of the tyranny of the majority, 60% =/= 100%
Those who support Trump's indictment are doing so in spite of the facts and the fact that they're case is weak. You do not see this.
This is weird. "These charges are BS and a distraction. But wait till we charge him with the real stuff." WTF?
"Prosecutors Are Still Hazy About What Crime Trump Was Trying To Conceal by Falsifying Business Records"
He stole the election from Hillary.
Duh.
IT WAS HER TURN!
Mean tweets!! Those must be worth jail time judging by the leftist hysteria rhey generated among the journalist class.
Don Lemon was personally affronted.
He had two scoops of ice cream when everyone else just got one. TWO SCOOPS! https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-time-magazine-ice-cream/index.html
Did they ask him what his favorite flavor was? Because I have it on good authority that the favorite flavor of ice cream is the most important thing to know about a President.
In what way did trump solicit election fraud?
If you squint your eyes and only parse clips into liberal narratives, he demanded Ga to generate thousands of fake votes. Just ignore the actual audio for yourself. Trust the dem narrative.
Damn actual audio. Facts impeding on the narrative again.
By concealing from the public an old affair as opposed to covering up the multi-million dollar influence peddling and graft with hostile powers plus the documentation of creepy pedo interactions with family. Old affairs are important, corruption and pedophilia not so much according to modern leftists and journalists (redundant, I know).
He actually didn’t cover it up - he disclosed it on his FEC filings.
^+1
The goal was to find an excuse to indict Trump for something, anything.
Mission accomplished!
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You'd think a Trump or DeSantis supporter would wholeheartedly approve of a legally and morally questionable political stunt designed mainly to play to the biases and beliefs of his current and future electorate?
No. But the Democrats did exactly just that. Why are you endorsing their questionable actions?
But if Cohen mischaracterized a reimbursement as income on state or city tax forms, that would be a peculiar sort of fraud, since the effect would be to increase his tax liability.
What the hell kind of fraud increases one's tax liability and causes one to pay more tax!?!
Money laundering.
Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaha
"Money laundering."
Sarc or stupidity.
a front of a legitimate business commonly used to make money seem legit is the oldest game the goombahs play. they love drycleaners, pizza restaurants, etc. they show inflated sales to legitimize their crooked earnings. it's am old game
"Money laundering increases one’s tax liability and causes one to pay more tax"
Top notch. Three thumbs up.
There were no income tax consequences. None. It was arguably a campaign contribution. But he could make unlimited campaign contributions to his own campaign. So, it was either an individual expense, or a campaign expense. But was never a taxable or corporate expense.
But nor were they deductible legal expenses relating to a non-existent "retainer" agreement. A white lie, perhaps?
And just why should hush money be taxed in anyway? People do that all the time. There isn't anything illegal about, contrary to what you claim. Care to show otherwise?
You haven't taken away anything from his point. You're not bolstering your case, nor doing any favors for the prosecution.
Bragg released a statement of facts along with the indictment which clearly lays out the crimes he's alleging Trump committed, including the crime and effort to cover up the crime which ratchets his document frauds to felonies.
There's a lot of dishonest handwringing going on about this prosecution.
So clear no respected lawyer argues it was clear. His statement of facts still refuses to name the crime used for escalation. It said maybe federal, maybe state, and gave no actual facts. Even leftist lawyers are calling the indictment trash. Lol.
Social media is filled with accounts claiming to be practicing lawyers who have read the charging documents and proclaim that this indictment is incredibly well drafted and solid. They assert that this is an iron-clad case and Trump will easily be convicted.
They haven’t read it then. I have.
- No explanation whatsoever what the crime was that is supposed to take it from from misdemeanors to felonies. Verbally, the DA said something about campaign finance law violations, but that wasn’t on the record, and it’s not clear which laws were allegedly violated, whether he was talking federal or state laws, or even if he could use violation of such as an enhancement.
- No explanation why Trump would be responsible for ministerial events (the bookkeeping charges) where he was not the person in charge (he had resigned those positions to be President).
- Who was injured? The expenses may have been mis characterized, but they were disclosed to the FEC. Trump either made the payments for his personal benefit, or as a campaign expenditure, from his own money, which were unlimited because he was self financing. Having Cohen pay Daniels, and paying him back later doesn’t matter - loans paid off don’t count as campaign finance violations.
There doesn't need to be an "explanation" at this stage; but rest assured, Trump's crack legal team will have ample opportunity to work this angle before the prison doors slam shut.
There were indeed allegations that he was aware of the arrangements. If he had been aware of the arrangements in sufficient detail, there is every reason to believe he could be held responsible for them by a jury of his peers.
If he is convicted, asking "who was injured" is probably something to be discussed during sentencing.
(FYI, I have yet to see anyone claiming this was an "incredibly well drafted and solid" indictment, as Cyto claims.)
There doesn’t need to be an “explanation” at this stage; but rest assured, Trump’s crack legal team will have ample opportunity to work this angle before the prison doors slam shut.
But there better be. Otherwise the indictment is invalid. Your position suggests that prosecutors are freely to indict anybody whenever they want; i.e. take a “guilty until proven innocent” approach. Trump shouldn’t even need a “crack legal team” at this point since the prosecution can’t even come up with a case right now.
There were indeed allegations that he was aware of the arrangements. If he had been aware of the arrangements in sufficient detail, there is every reason to believe he could be held responsible for them by a jury of his peers.
If he is convicted, asking “who was injured” is probably something to be discussed during sentencing.
And that’s just that, allegations. You believe them; we on the other hand, ask the prosecution to make a better case and show that they are true, because they haven’t been able to do so. But even if the allegations were true, there’s nothing to suggest that any of it was illegal, let alone hurt anybody. And if you claim otherwise, then tell us, who do you think was “injured” in any of this?
(FYI, I have yet to see anyone claiming this was an “incredibly well drafted and solid” indictment, as Cyto claims.)
We have polls that suggest that the prosecution was right to indict Trump and have a case against him. You yourself seem to believe that too.
"Bragg released a statement of facts along with the indictment which clearly lays out the crimes he’s alleging Trump committed"
So what are they? Share with us the crimes Bragg says Trump committed.
Then explain why he's not charging Trump for those crimes, and why they're not part of the actual indictment.
There’s a lot of bullshit from TDS-addled assholes in this thread
Trust me, bro.
--Alvin Bragg
This is also a week parody.
“There’s a lot of dishonest handwringing going on about this prosecution.”
True, but probably not the way you mean it.
Under which NY statute do lies qualify as "Statements of Fact"? (Asking for a friend)
I suspect that the prosecutor's plan, at this point, is to just throw as much shit at the wall as he can and see what sticks with the jury. That, and they're hoping that the jury will just be either so confused that they just shrug and go along with whatever he says. Or that they'll be able to pack the jury with TDS afflicted twats.
They are probably doing a lot more than hoping.
Chuck Schumer tweeted out that he is confident that Trump will get a fair trial. It was an odd thing to say as your first response to an indictment, particularly as a partisan who has actively worked to ensure that the system treats Trump in any way except what could be described as fair.
What does that mean?
Well, it seems to me that he knows something. You would not defend a trial as being "fair" when it is far from certain that there should even be a trial, unless you had good reason to believe that the judge will indeed rule in the prosecutions favor on the several novel legal issues that would prevent this case from ever making it to court.
And as we saw with Sullivan, there are indeed judged who are willing to pervert the judicial system for political reasons when it comes to Trump. It was also fairly clear that judges were not being randomly assigned in that case, meaning that it was far from being a single person involves.
"Chuck Schumer tweeted out that he is confident that Trump will get a fair trial. It was an odd thing to say as your first response to an indictment, particularly as a partisan who has actively worked to ensure that the system treats Trump in any way except what could be described as fair."
Reminiscent of Pelosi's repeated reminders that Trump would have a lot more votes than Biden on election day, but they'd come up with the votes needed to beat him after that
The expenses were paid out of personal funds. It doesn’t matter one whit whether they were for personal or election reasons, since he was self financing much of his campaign, and thus had no limits on what he could spend on the election. He disclosed the payments to the FEC. 2/3 of the charges were for bookkeeping acts by people not under his supervision any more, since he had resigned his positions in the various Trump organizations to be President. The remainder were for signing checks to Cohen as legal fees, which he could legally make. Since they were in repayment of a debt, they don’t violate election laws.
You keep skating around the falsifying of the business records, but it doesn't seem possible that Trump's personal election expenses could have been accurately characterized in the Trump Organization's books as legal expenses relating to a fake "retainer".
Nothing to worry about: just some small time crime from the then-crook-in-chief...
You keep skating around the falsifying of the business records, but it doesn’t seem possible that Trump’s personal election expenses could have been accurately characterized in the Trump Organization’s books as legal expenses relating to a fake “retainer”.
That because the prosecution can’t even come up with a case as to what exactly was being “falsified”. What is there to “skate around” if it doesn’t exist?
Nothing to worry about: just some small time crime from the then-crook-in-chief…
It would still be a massive injustice since there’s no proof that any crime was committed. The accused stand innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. And neither you, nor the prosecution, nor their allies, have made a compelling case against Trump.
The left hates Trump because he tried to dismantle their Nazi-Empire.
i.e. Clean the Swamp.
The leftard Nazi has and will always be an enemy of the USA. It's right there in the very definition of the USA (US Constitution). Doesn't matter if they wave the US flag or pretend their attack on the very fabric of the USA is no big deal. Their end-goal is to create a [WE] mob RULES Nazi-Empire. Just ask them.
Request Granted
The leftist President of Mexico condemns Trump's arrest. His condemnation speaks to how terrible is the tyranny for these United States. How did this terror happen? What can patriotic Americans do? How can they do it?
How did it happen? You, the American public and your forebears, made it happen. You asked for it! Beginning in the 1950's with the Warren-Court then the 1960's with the so-called Civil Rights Act (really the Civil Wrongs Act) and the Hart-Celler Act. Now, you got it, right between the eyes. Behavior has its consequences, especially voting behavior. Consequence of Germanic voting in 1933? Germany in 1945. Consequence of your past voting and that of your forebears? Look who just got elected in Chicago and Wisconsin. There's more to come unless . . . .
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." -H. L. Mencken (1880-1956)
Well, patriotic Americans, you're getting it good and hard, and you deserve it. Ask Mr. Trump. The evildoers spreading the black shroud of Fascism — not Communism — over this once-bright land are not as stupid as you might believe. You have denied reality. Any nation that denies reality dooms itself to a dismal destiny.
https://www.nationonfire.com/the-jaws-are-closing/ .
Is there a Road to Recovery? Yes. It's based upon Biobehavioral Science. Never heard of it? The Chinese have, and they are winning. So, better learn while there might be still enough time. The unique novel, Retribution Fever, will lead you by the hand.
Alternative? Wallow in ignorance and continue to pursue the Path to Perdition. Your choice.
Not sure if this has anything to do with arepas.
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A few people seem to have forgotten that unfortunately prostitution is illegal. The whole issue is Trump trying to cover up paying for sex, a crime. You think she was hopping on the wrinkly old mushroom stump for free?
It's not in Nevada. And I find it strange you believe a hooker without even a speckle of evidence. Gosh; I guess Bill Clinton should most definitely be in jail for cheating on his wife too (fully established as truth).
Since when was an affair prostitution?
He didn't pay her for sex, he paid her to shut the fuck up. Totally legal, actually.
Also, good luck trying to incite libertarian outrage about breaking laws against prostitution. You should try claiming he smoked a joint while you're at it.
Maybe he even purchased a gun with one of those illegal pistol braces attached to it, while placing an illegal sports bet through mail without even using proper postage.
Considering the focus of this website, they'd kind of have to be on the Trump side if it were actually prostitution and smoking a joint. Hell, buy her something from a food truck after and you've hit the Reason trifecta there.
And he was also being fucked up the ass at the same time.
Actually, it looks a lot more like an extortion scheme.
Apparently the enquirer has a tilly little business accepting payments to kill stories.
"The whole issue is Trump trying to cover up paying for sex"
Fucking Outer Party midwits.
Nobody, including Stormy or the Democrats, have accused Trump of paying for sex. He cheated on his wife with her, so he paid her to sign an NDA a couple of years later.
This is what happens when you watch too much CNN.
And because you're apparently maleducated, the changes aren't about the NDA itself either.
It's about the NY prosecutor disagreeing with the federal prosecutors about which column his accountant should've recorded the check under.
Trump paid more tax the way he did it, but somehow Bragg thinks it's still wrong.
Trump paid more tax? You mean Cohen paid more tax.
Have we seen Trump's income tax deductions from 2017?
It doesn't matter where the taxes came from, it was paid legally. And it turned out that it was more money than it should've been. The 2017 tax deductions doesn't help the prosecution. So why are you defending the indictment when there's no compelling case?
"The whole issue is Trump trying to cover up paying for sex, a crime."
LOL! You better let Bragg know, 'cause that is nowhere in his indictment.
Although I must say that Bragg probably had a better chance of proving that Stormy is a prostitute than Trump is an accountant.
"A few people seem to have forgotten that unfortunately prostitution is illegal..."
Gotta have really tiny hands to grasp at straws THAT thin.
fafalone has left the chat
But in a press release on Tuesday, Bragg said the "criminal activity" that Trump sought to "conceal" included "attempts to violate state and federal election laws" (emphasis added
Which is bullshit, because Trump wasn't running for a state level office, so he isn't subject to New York's campaign finance laws. He was running for a national office on every ballot in every single state, so New York can't interject their own laws. They also can't prosecute the federal laws.
Seems like they'd have been better off trying to drum up some tax evasion charges compared to this nonsense.
State level is also a misdemeanor.
Doesn't matter since they can't charge. If they can charge it, it's perhaps a half-assed justification for the "underlying crime" they'd need to make the top count a felony, but they can't. And since the feds have said that Trump maybe didn't commit a crime, you can't claim he DEFINITELY committed a federal crime.
To clarify: Trump didn’t run for a state level office, so he absolutely can’t have violated state level campaign finance laws, regardless what Bragg says. There’s a legal barrier there, Trump is not required to comply with any New York campaign finance laws, only federal ones.
So Bragg is spouting bullshit when he claims Trump violated state campaign laws. But the whole thing is various flavors of bullshit.
Just saying he can't use state election because no judge would allow 2 misdemeanors to raise to a felony on .10.
Edwards argued that covering his mistress’s living expenses was a personal expenditure aimed at deceiving his wife, who was dying from cancer at the time.
Which is fine, if he was paying that out of pocket. He wasn’t, though, he was using campaign donors’ money on it. That’s a different fact-set from here, where the allegation is that Trump did NOT accept this as a campaign donation from Cohen, but instead repaid him for it.
It’s hard to argue what Cohen did was a “donation,” when he was supposedly reimbursed for it, even in excess of the value of the expenditure.
No - Trump was using personal funds. The DA’s information filed with the charges even tacitly admitted it. That’s what is confusing - most of the time campaign finance violations involve using other people’s money incorrectly. Not the case here.
Which explains the full pardon he gave to Cohen, for just doing as he was asked, by Trump, who was perfectly entitled to do it himself.
There's nothing wrong with having someone do favors for you, including financial favors. It happens all the time. Why do you object to that?
There's nothing to suggest that Trump, and Cohen for that matter, committed any crime with the hush payment.
It is likewise hard to figure out whose rights were violated by Trump's misrepresentation of the money he paid to Cohen.
Or even if this is a misrepresentation at all. A lawyer paid an NDA and was repaid by his client, for something that wasn't explicitly for the purposes of helping the campaign. Sounds like a completely legitimate legal expense.
And if it was a campaign expense, it didn’t matter, since he was self financing much of his campaign already.
I know what felony they will say he was covering up - human trafficking. The same thing they frequently try to claim when prostitution is involved. They can't accept that Stormy had self agency - she was trafficked. If they went anywhere together and happened to cross state lines - trafficking.
"Leads to suspicion that the prosecution is politically motovated"
You know what else leads to the suspicion that the prosecution is politically motivated? The fact that he ran for office on a platform of "I will prosecute Trump and his friends", with no specified crime... not even a suspicion of any crime in particular.
Also on that side of the ledger, the Soros constellation of organizations and contributions that simultaneously supported Bragg and promised to elevate progressives and destroy Republicans, Trump in particular.
So you really don't have to rely on suspicion. In fact, given their very public statements, and the obvious open-ended investigation focused on a person and not a crime or suspicion of a crime, the burden of proof should be on Bragg at this point to demonstrate that this is *not* a politically motivated abuse of his office.
The uber driver who shot the fat larper pointing an AK at him during a riot while mobbing his car is also being currently tried by a Soros prosecutor.
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1643816631477633025?t=pVrTbaSUMlSoSyCgGL3XQw&s=19
Hugely significant case that’s not getting nearly enough coverage.
This man was stopped in the streets by rioters. Had an AK-47 put in his face. He defended himself.
Police cleared him, then a Soros DA in Austin Texas personally intervened.
[Link]
It would be nice to see Reason cover this. At least in this case they could focus on principles without TDS interfering.
Oh...wait. Reason did a glowing profile on the asshole with the AK making him out to be a libertarian martyr.
His gun was bigger?
Is that the best defense you can come up with? Why are you defending the aggressors and not the right of self-defense?
The continuing ambiguity reflects the legal challenges that Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg faces in transforming one hush payment into 34 felonies
It's uh, yeah, it's a challenge. Hopefully he'll overcome it.
The elevation and multiplication of charges, combined with Bragg's belated reassessment of the case's legal merits, reinforce the suspicion that the prosecution is politically motivated.
The elevation and multiplication of charges, combined with Bragg’s belated reassessment of the case’s legal merits, reinforce the suspicion that the prosecution is politically motivated.
*spits drink all over monitor*
Giles Corey was suspicious that he might have been the target of a witch hunt.
Tuccille warns, "Bragg and company could delegitimize the legal process and invite retaliation from Republicans when they have the opportunity to return the favor."
*facepalm*
This is the mask-wearing-to-not-look-like-a-Republican of journalism.
"...Hasen has similar concerns. "This kind of case can give credence to Trump claims of a witch hunt," he writes..."
Perhaps because it's true?
No, the entire US Military coming down on your head just feeds the fever dream that the US is invading.
I’m going to need to see membership cards of every last one of them and speak with their duly-elected leadership before I’m going to disbelieve the superficially credible accusation that they are just a bunch of dudes out having a picnic and shooting some guns. Now, if you’ll excuse me, this water’s getting heavy and the picnickers are getting thirsty.
Hazy? The second crime that is "supposed" to elevate this to a felony is not even named in the indictment. A blatant violation of the accused rights.
Richard Hasen writes "This kind of case can give credence to Trump claims of a witch hunt."
I suspect that this was exactly what Bragg wanted. He hopes to strengthen Trump's support among Republicans in order to improve his chances of winning the nomination in 2024, figuring that Biden or Biden's Democratic successor would have a better chance against Trump than against a Republican with actual conservative principles.
It looks very much like Act 2 of the strategy that worked so well for the D's in 2022: Promote crazy Trumpists like Kari Lake in the Republican primaries to keep sane candidates from winning the nominations, in the expectation that it'd improve the Democratic candidates' chance in the general election.
You forgot the half million illegal votes that Kathy Hobbs created for hrtself as Secretary of State.
How's that legal case going?
The outcome of the case does not change the facts. You haven't provided any rebuttal to Bruce's claim.
Never mind that, who were these records being reported to? Why is that a crime?
Perhaps, Alvin Bragg has some secret code book of felonies which is unknown to anyone else. That would explain why none of the thousands of lawyers do not know which law Trump "attempted to break." I can see if Bragg indicted Trump on attempt to overthrow the US government or attempted to murder vice-president Pence, but those felonies were in 2021 and not in 2017 and occurred out side Bragg's jurisdiction.
How about NYS disbar Bragg for not attempting to act like an honest prosecutor.
the plain language of your headline makes the bold claim that Trump DID INEED falsify business records. This claim has not been proven as true yet. Nor do the facts as have been out in the public view for some time indicate either that this was his intention, or his direct action.
I've even read a statement by his then-attorney that HE (the attorney) had given the money to the woman in question and NOT informed trump about it until well after the fct, fr too late for him to have done anythng even if he had wanted to.
S he is being indicted at least in part in the basis of a freely performed act by a third party, yet HE (Trump) is being accused of havng made the ayments then lied about them.
go and read Franz Kafka's amazing book, written about 1920 or so, titled "the Trial". We had to read that when I was in high school. I had watched, on the TeeVee set's nighty news, black and white newsreel footage taken in Budapest Hingery in about 1956 as the Hungarians were rising up and trying to throw off the yoke of communism. The Soviets rolled battle tanks into Budapest and ran over or shot up anyone remaining on the streets. I dostinctly remembr ine guy darting out from the door stoop of a house, light a glass bottle with a rag sticking out of the top, and throwing it at the side of the tank rolling past the doorway. The tank caught fire and burned. Blocking the street.
This sort of thhing we are observing now was the norm in that time and place. We were particularly interested and concerned because we had an uncle living in Budpest at the time. He managed to survive, but doed before his Homeland was liberated from communism. He never could openly communicate with us as they read all international mail coming and going. So we had to be careful else HE could end up in the gulags.
Is THIS what we want HERE? Maybe not, but there ARE those corruptocrats who DO want this here. And Bragg is either one of those or is under the employ of those who do. The way he's in this like a large tomcat on a rat leads me to believe it is HIS hissyfit.
Little does he realise yet: he has an angry dog by the ears. And no the dog is NOT Trump.
The allegation is in the statement of facts accompanying the indictment: "Ultimately, with pressure mounting and the election approaching, the Defendant agreed to the payoff and directed Lawyer A to proceed"
If that is accurate, Trump was indeed involved in the Cohen payments in advance of the 2016 election, not just afterwards. The prosecution will have to prove all of this in court, but it is certainly plausible that a lawyer would seek some kind of reassurance from his client before making such a pay-off using his own funds.
The allegation is in the statement of facts accompanying the indictment: “Ultimately, with pressure mounting and the election approaching, the Defendant agreed to the payoff and directed Lawyer A to proceed”
If that is accurate, Trump was indeed involved in the Cohen payments in advance of the 2016 election, not just afterwards. The prosecution will have to prove all of this in court, but it is certainly plausible that a lawyer would seek some kind of reassurance from his client before making such a pay-off using his own funds.
Where is the illegality in any of this? There isn't. There is nothing wrong with having a lawyer to do your task.
It’s not Trump who has caused this; it’s the D-party and the swamp critters. He’s simply shown that someone who is not a swamp critter can get elected and threaten their cushy jobs and rent-seeking road to wealth. They do NOT want that to happen again!
Please understand that a coordinated conspiracy is not necessary here; they are terrified and will simply support anyone who advances the program individually; they are all threatened.
Bragg seems to be a particularly loathsome piece of TDS-addled shit, and we can hope a judge tells him so, but there are many other low-lifes the swamp critters are willing to sacrifice if he gets the boot.
Make no mistake; there are billions of dollars involved here; the mob never played for stakes like this, nor had the supposed legal ability to do so.
Trump may represent one of its more disreputable regions, but he's definitely one the the swamp's most prominent inhabitants. He's notoriously crooked.
The current establishment despises Trump. Why else would they have indicted him?
And yet there's no evidence that the "notoriously crooked" Trump committed any crime. Why defend the prosecution who can't even come up with a case?
I summon Sarait with arepas
Of course the charges are hazy because they didn't happen.
I am not persuaded that the New York statute's failure to define what constitutes a second crime gives coverage to a crime that the Federal Government possibly declined to prosecute.
This renders the target of the indictment unable to obtain legal counsel in violation of the 6th Amendment's right to counsel.
This also renders the indictment subject to a writ of habeas corpus. Michael Cohen is not the "body", as he was convicted of crimes that do not imply that Trump himself directly committed misdemeanors identical to those of which Trump is accused.
This also creates an unconstitutional ping-pong match between the state's alleged power to convict (or place in legal jeopardy) a defendant of a federal crime with the federal power to preempt state prosecution for a crime established by Congress. In effect, it creates a new state power to negate federal authority.
As an example of indictment for fantasy crimes with no evidence, this indictment is a masterwork. As a serious expansion of government power, the indictment itself is likely to become a campaign issue -- and that should be resolved at the federal level before it drags the federal judiciary into an election intervention.
BrAG(G)'S "CASE" is easily dismissed by Pelosi's (Freudian? slip) admission that Trump "will have to prove his innocence."
True US justice demands that the State prove the accused's guilt, beyond reasonable doubt.
Bragg is NOT being hazy. He is flat out REFUSING to name the crime he claims Trump was trying to conceal.
And in that case, I have no doubt that the government would try to prosecute Trump for misuse of campaign funds.
Where's the misuse in any of this? As stated before, Trump paid by the pocket and just had someone else do the job for him.