The DOJ Says Forbidding Pot Users To Own Guns Is Like Telling People Not To Carry Guns When They're Drunk
Defending a categorical ban on gun possession by cannabis consumers, the Biden administration cites inapt "historical analogues."

Every state prohibits driving while intoxicated, recognizing that alcohol use impairs the ability to safely operate a motor vehicle and increases the risk of potentially lethal accidents. Using a cellphone also impairs the ability to safely operate a motor vehicle and increases the risk of potentially lethal accidents. It therefore makes sense to prohibit cellphone users from owning cars.
That faulty syllogism bears more than a passing resemblance to the Biden administration's defense of the federal law that makes it a felony for cannabis consumers to possess firearms. That law, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) argues in an appeal brief filed last week, is "consistent with this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation"—the constitutional test established by the Supreme Court's 2022 decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. To make its case, the government cites laws passed in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries that prohibited people from carrying or firing guns while intoxicated, which it implausibly argues are analogous to the gun ban for marijuana users that Congress imposed in 1968.
The DOJ is asking the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit to uphold a 2022 decision in which Allen Winsor, a federal judge in Florida, dismissed a Second Amendment challenge to that gun ban by state-authorized medical marijuana patients. In the 10th Circuit, meanwhile, the Biden administration is appealing a contrary 2023 ruling by Patrick Wyrick, a federal judge in Oklahoma who concluded that the law, 18 USC 922(g)(3), is unconstitutional.
The government's 11th Circuit brief wisely eschews the DOJ's earlier reliance on what Wyrick called "ignominious historical restrictions" that disarmed slaves, Catholics, loyalists, and Native Americans. Those precedents, the government had argued, showed that legislators have the authority to withhold gun rights from any group they deem "untrustworthy." But the DOJ is still arguing that "the people" protected by the Second Amendment are limited to "law-abiding, responsible citizens," a category that it says does not include cannabis consumers or anyone else who breaks the law, no matter how trivial the offense.
That claim seems inconsistent with President Joe Biden's position that marijuana use should not be treated as a crime. But the meat of the Justice Department's argument is the claim that early laws targeting drunken gun handlers establish a "historical tradition" that justifies threatening cannabis consumers with up to 15 years in prison if they dare to exercise their Second Amendment rights. That argument glosses over crucial details that show these "historical analogues" were fundamentally different from the law that the Biden administration is defending.
"As early as 1655," the DOJ notes, "Virginia prohibited "shoot[ing] any gunns at
drinkeing [events]." A 1771 New York law "likewise barred firing guns during the New Year's holiday," a regulation that "was aimed at preventing 'the great Damages…frequently done on [those days] by persons…being often intoxicated with Liquor.'" In 1731, Newport, Rhode Island, "forbade the firing of 'any gun or pistol' in any tavern at night, a time and place where people were at a heightened risk of drinking to excess."
Notably, those colonial laws applied in public places, and they were aimed at the specific danger posed by drunken gun use. By contrast, 18 USC 922(g)(3) is a categorical ban on firearm possession in any setting by any "unlawful user" of a "controlled substance," regardless of whether he carries or fires a gun while intoxicated. An analogous rule regarding alcohol would deny Second Amendment rights to all drinkers, include occasional or moderate consumers who never handle guns irresponsibly.
The 19th century laws cited by the government likewise were narrowly tailored to address a public hazard. An 1867 Kansas law made it misdemeanor for "any person under the influence of intoxicating drink" to "carr[y] on his person a pistol…or other deadly weapon." An 1878 Mississippi law banned the sale of concealable, deadly weapons to "any person intoxicated" when the seller knew the buyer was "in a state of intoxication." An 1879 Missouri law prohibited people from carrying "any kind of firearms…when intoxicated or under the influence of intoxicating drink."
An 1883 Wisconsin law said "it shall be unlawful for any person in a state of intoxication" to "go armed with any pistol or revolver." An 1890 Oklahoma law said "public officers" were not allowed to carry "arms" while "under the influence of intoxicating liquors." In 1899, South Carolina forbade "boisterous conduct" while "under the influence of intoxicating liquors," including "discharg[ing] any gun" near a public road. A 1909 Idaho law made it a crime for "any person" to "have or carry" a "pistol, revolver, gun or any other deadly or dangerous weapon" while "intoxicated" or "under the influence of intoxicating drinks."
All of these laws were limited to people who were actively intoxicated, who were not permitted to carry or fire guns in public (or, in Mississippi's case, buy guns). The state laws cited by the government "imposed a far narrower burden" than 18 USC 922(g)(3) "and, as a result, left ample room for the exercise of the core right to armed self-defense," Wyrick noted in his February 3 decision:
First, the restrictions imposed by each law only applied while an individual was actively intoxicated or actively using intoxicants. Under these laws, no one's right to armed self-defense was restricted based on the mere fact that he or she was a user of intoxicants. Second, none of the laws appear to have prohibited the mere possession of a firearm. Third, far from being a total prohibition applicable to all intoxicated persons in all places, all the laws appear to have applied to public places or activities (or even a narrow subset of public places), and one only applied to a narrow subset of intoxicated persons ["public officers"]. Importantly, none appear to have prohibited the possession of a firearm in the home for purposes of self-defense.
While those laws "took a scalpel to the right of armed self-defense—narrowly carving out exceptions but leaving most of the right in place—§ 922(g)(3) takes a sledgehammer to the right," Wyrick added. "Recall that § 922(g)(3) imposes the most severe burden possible: a total prohibition on possessing any firearm, in any place, for any use, in any circumstance—regardless of whether the person is actually intoxicated or under the influence of a controlled substance. It is a complete deprivation of the core right to possess a firearm for self-defense, turning entirely on the fact that an individual is a user of marijuana. Section 922(g)(3)'s 'burden on the right of armed self-defense' is thus not 'comparable' to the seven historical intoxication laws."
How does the DOJ deal with these points in its 11th Circuit brief? By ignoring them.
"The founders recognized that intoxicating substances render users unable to responsibly bear arms," the government's lawyers say. "Historical legislatures accordingly adopted a variety of measures calculated to separate firearms and alcohol….Both Section 922(g)(3) and historical laws mitigate the 'mischief' threatened when intoxicated individuals 'go[] abroad with fire-arms.'…Both Section 922(g)(3) and historical laws disarm individuals who currently or recurringly use drugs that impair their ability to possess firearms responsibly."
Those laws "separate[d] firearms and alcohol" by saying people were not allowed to publicly carry guns when they were drunk, not by saying people who drink may not possess firearms, period. They aimed to address the danger posed by "intoxicated individuals" who "go[] abroad with fire-arms" by prohibiting precisely that sort of behavior. As Wyrick noted, 18 USC 922(g)(3) goes much further than that.
The DOJ's dubious logic is clear in this passage: "Plaintiffs do not suggest they will surrender their firearms every time they use marijuana. Plaintiffs will accordingly possess firearms while intoxicated and thus fall within the class of individuals subject to disarmament under these historical laws."
Contrary to the implication, "these historical laws" did not require gun owners to "surrender their firearms" whenever they had a drink or two. They did not prohibit people from "possess[ing] firearms while intoxicated" in the sense of retaining ownership of those weapons and keeping them at home when they visited a tavern. The laws specifically forbade the conjunction of two activities that were otherwise legal: 1) consuming alcoholic beverages and 2) carrying guns in public.
Returning to the opening analogy, a person's status as a drinker does not disqualify him from owning a car, and he retains legal ownership of his car even when he is intoxicated, provided he does not try to drive it in that condition. Logically, the same distinctions should apply to marijuana use and gun ownership, which unlike car ownership is explicitly protected by the Constitution.
"The question is not, as plaintiffs seem to suggest, whether a modern law mirrors a 'historical twin,'" the DOJ says. "Rather, the question is whether the modern law is 'relevantly similar' to a 'historical analogue.'" But the government's attempt to argue that laws targeting gun-toting drunks are "relevantly similar" to a law targeting anyone who consumes marijuana, regardless of the circumstances, relies on slippery reasoning and deliberate obfuscation.
The Biden administration thinks the 11th Circuit (and the 10th) should defer to "Congress's judgment that marijuana is a controlled substance the users of which cannot responsibly possess firearms." When Congress passed the Gun Control Act in 1968, the DOJ says, it was worried about the "ready availability" of guns to "narcotic addicts," "criminals," and "others whose possession of firearms is similarly contrary to the public interest." Legislators also mentioned "juveniles," "mental defectives," and "armed groups who would supplant duly constituted public authorities."
According to the Biden administration, it was perfectly reasonable to put cannabis consumers in the same category as "narcotic addicts," "criminals," children, armed revolutionaries, and "mental defectives." The DOJ explicitly compares marijuana users to "the mentally ill," saying both can be "dangerous when armed." The government approvingly quotes a 2016 decision in which the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit averred that illegal drug users, "like those with mental illnesses," are apt to "experience altered or impaired mental states that affect their judgment and that can lead to irrational or unpredictable behavior."
The DOJ also quotes a 1946 history noting that "at the founding 'those afflicted with mental diseases were generally treated as though they had been stripped of all… their rights and privileges.'" In the 18th century, the government adds, quoting a 2009 law review article, "justices of the peace were authorized to 'lock up' 'lunatics' who were 'dangerous to be permitted to go abroad.'" Evidently, marijuana users should be thankful that they have been stripped only of their Second Amendment rights and not all of their other "rights and privileges," including the right to be free of arbitrary and indefinite imprisonment.
The constitutional question is not whether this attitude makes sense. It manifestly does not, as Biden himself should be willing to concede, since he decries the injustice of criminalizing marijuana use. The constitutional question, as framed by the Supreme Court in Bruen, is whether the policy based on that attitude is "consistent with this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation." If these are the best "historical analogues" the government can come up with, the answer seems clear.
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An infringement is an infringement.
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You gotta fight for your right to party!
Correct.
But all sorts of infringements can be ignored if "the right to keep and bear arms" just means "the right to keep and bear some arms", as is grammatically plausible.
It is grammatically plausible. This is why the Strategic Air Command--not the Anarco-fascist Caucus--keeps and bears Hound Dog missiles with 550 kiloton fusion warheads on them. Looking Glass pilots are a well-regulated militia to do anyone proud.
Owning a gun, and using that said gun while under the influence are two very different things. Would we take vehicles away from everyone that has bought a bottle of alcohol? Ridiculous!
Marijuana users are obviously permanentally mentally incapacited. It is known.
That is why they shouldn’t be able to vote, either.
Seriously, how is that analogy not drawn given the gubment’s position?
D-party voters?
It could be drawn, but unless the gubmint seeks to disallow them to vote, it doesn't matter.
People get in a tizzy over the idea of being asked for ID to vote. I suspect being asked to pee in a cup would go over worse. 😉
You mean like Bill Clinton who admitted to marijuana use?
Post the proof of that statement.
typical duopoly crap..... if they are going to fight for any of your rights, they gotta fight against some of your rights too. can't have anyone who thinks you should be allowed to smoke weed AND own guns.
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Legal arguments are inherently sophistic. They are arguing to support a predefined outcome. In exchange for money. They don't even pretend to personally believe what they say.
That's why the Saul Goodman character is so great. I mean the one on video, not the one in Illuminatus!.
Fuck Joe Biden *clap, clap, clappity clap*
Awwww... how cute! I've hardly seen any Trumper Tantrums since the Moot Lewser button started working. Their whining, screeching and crying is music--too bad it got Biden elected.
It’s your libertarian moment, Sullum. You actively supported this guy’s election, so revel in the freedom.
Likes weed but hates guns even more. Yep, he told you that before you endorsed him.
But assuming I do, the choice is obvious: Jo Jorgensen.
- Jacob Sullum
He must have been playing 5d chess when he endorsed Jo Jorg.
Yeah, my bad.
No, not your bad.
It's Sullum's bad, and any pathetic midwit simping for him.
For one, Sullum is a habitual liar without an ounce of integrity. Secondly, he and every member of the staff at Reason spent years campaigning against Trump utilizing rank dishonesty. Third, Sullum wrote several articles a day for a month straight defending and covering up the glaring election inconsistencies of 2020.
His head belongs on a pike.
Yep. He’s really awful. If Reason ever held a convention Vegas, I would go just so I could look some of these people in the eye while I tell them what I think. Although I would watch out just in case it was an elaborate plan for Welch to snare the commentariat into his ‘red wedding’ fantasy.
If so, would give you justified cause...
There’s no reason to think Trump would be any better on this issue. Trump is a drug warrior, even called for death penalty for drug dealers. It seems his DOJ would be just as likely to have filed such a brief to keep guns out of the hands of druggies and hippies, or anyone left, or anyone who does not share conservative social values. Maybe he would not have, but I wouldn’t count on it.
Being anti racist is the most important thing.
I have no interest in expressing whatever horrifying message would be implied by a vote for Trump or Biden (although I am morbidly curious to see what a second term for Trump would mean).
Curiosity would have better been spent reading Biden's campaign website.
I voted for the Libertarian repeal planks and against violent coercion. Only an idiot votes for a politician instead of voting for freedom.
They'll latch onto any excuse they can think of, no matter how stupid.
No offense, but I have assumptions that you'd have repurcussions if you have a license for a gun and are drunk while carrying.
They are not saying you should be punished more harshly for using a gun while using cannabis. They are saying you lose your right to even possess a gun if you use cannabis at all.
Perhaps the issue is that Jacob words things terribly.
“The DOJ Says Forbidding Pot Users To Own Guns Is Like Telling People Not To Carry Guns When They’re Drunk”, to me, reads that he is comparing owning guns while high to carrying a gun while drunk.
It’d make far more sense if he compared owning guns while using pot to owning a gun while drunk. One is dramatically less of an issue than the other.
I believe the law prohibits gun ownership simply for being a "user" rather than carrying while intoxicated.
That's the difference here. An alcoholic can get lit every damn day, but so long as he isn't carrying while drunk (or at an establishment that has a liquor license) he's free (to varying extents) to own a firearm. He can purchase a firearm at any time.
A "Marijuana user" is prohibited from purchasing a firearm regardless.
It's a double standard that isn't logically justified, but here we are.
He’s not the one making the comparison, he’s saying that’s the fucktarded comparison the DOJ is making.
That *is* the comparison the DOJ is making. And yes, it's exactly as stupid as it sounds.
The DOJ is a cabinet branch that needs to be heavily changed or ended outright.
Headlines are usually not written by the authors, but by the editors.
But are you more likely to cause trouble when carrying if you’re stoned, or if you’re drunk?
^^This.
That is likely to be a misdemeanor.
Merely owning a firearm while being a pothead is a felony. And they stack the sentences. So if you’re a collector and get caught with a joint, you’re looking at life.
kind of the point being made here is that while there are laws saying you can't use a gun AT THE SAME TIME you are drunk, what they are trying to do here is say that you can't even OWN a gun if you EVER smoke weed. i don't think anyone would have a major problem with saying you can't shoot guns when stoned.... but that is NOT what this law does. this law is more like saying you can't ever own any guns if you have ever had a beer.
No offense, but I have assumptions that you didn't actually read the fucking article.
no laws against carrying a weapon while intoxicated and I'm in the commieweatlh of taxachusetts. if you fire that weapon while intoxicated however, you're probably not helping yourself much.
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This sounds more like a tailor made slippery slope.
Legalize recreational drugs, sit back for awhile and claim anything that they define as dangerous can be banned and confiscated because you're a drug user.
Damn, these folks think on a whole new level.
Ah, but see, that's the real trick isn't it? Marijuana has not been legalized anywhere. It's still entirely illegal everywhere within the United States. The fact that states have legalized it and the federal government doesn't make a priority out of enforcing its laws (until it feels like it) doesn't make it any more legal. You make a situation wherein everyone is guilty of something and then you selectively withhold your enforcement. We will all be
sinnersfelons in the hands of an angrygodgovernment.So, by the DOJ's logic, marijuana users shouldn't be allowed to have driver's licenses either.
Cops intoxicated with prohibitionist lust for violence should NOT have drivers licenses. Let them feel THAT on their hides!
Notice the swath of those examples were STATE legislation!!!
State's should have some leeway to legislate safety; It was NEVER EVER EVER the Union of State's Job nor was it there job to regulate drugs either. On the contrary; It is there job to ensure every citizen has 2A rights. The feds have literally started working against their own goals and are treasonous to the USA.
So the guy who hated weed for so many years and thought it made all your rights forfeit now thinks it's ok as long as you give up one, just one, teeny, tiny right. Keep grasping at those straws Juncle Owe.
That claim seems inconsistent with President Joe Biden's position that marijuana use should not be treated as a crime.
I'm trying to figure out of the writing was this lazy in years past, or I just didn't notice it.
The dishonesty of DoJ here is shocking. It’s as if they don’t care about their reputation for integrity at all.
I wish I was shocked by the DOJ acting like a bunch of mendacious cunts.
Sadly, that's just another day that ends in "y".
There should be some sort of punishment for trying to subvert the constitution like this...
...But there isn't so cue the next attempt, and, ACTION!
Pot makes me so violent that if I had a gun I'd take a sledgehammer to it.
So why isn't letting alcohol users own guns like allowing drunk gun use. I mean,...DUH!!
A nation stoned and unarmed.
The most important distinction between alcohol and marijuana is not explored in the article. Alcohol use is legal. Marijuana use is not. Not anywhere in the United States, no matter what each individual state has to say on the subject. Not legal. Period. A violation of federal law. Maybe we need to actually think about that, and if the majority of our citizens agree then lets change that particular law. Make it legal to use, federally. Argument over.
A violation of federal law that violates the US Constitution is a bogus law. It’s not about “democracy” it’s about “saving the USA” per the US Constitution (the people’s law OVER their government). The very definition of a USA.
It’s NOT “save our democracy” it *IS* “save our Constitution”. Democracy has proven (illegally) it is ill-equipped to do anything but destroy this nation.
Most Americans wanted weak beer and wine relegalized by 1923. But the Republican looter Kleptocracy had its pass to rob, maim and murder people with absolute immunity until the Liberal Party published a repeal plank. Futhermore, politicians told them Jesus wanted people robbed maimed and murdered for their own good. People get what they deserve until they finally learn to vote.
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Sadly, the acidheads aboard nuclear submarines are probably the only ones who value freedom enough, and are competent enough to actually defend These United States against foreign attacks.
So, to registr the gun ith the Government, because I smoke dope. How about, if I just drink beer?
So, to register the gun ith the Government, because I smoke dope. How about, if I just drink beer?
How about, I don't register my gun?
The entire point of the 4473 is lost on me, except for the government to create an illegal gun registry. If the point of the form is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, it might as well be a "No Guns" sign because criminals are only too willing to ignore the signs the same way as they are willing to lie on forms...they are criminals after all. Also it would seem as though you can lie on the form with no consequences (see Joe Biden's son for evidence). All they need is a form with you name, date of birth, and social. Compare that to a valid government issued ID so they can run the background check and voila all the rest of the nonsense is irrelevant.
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