A Modern History of 'Groomer' Politics
The social changes that paved the way for gay and trans acceptance have made pedophile acceptance less likely, not more.

There was a time when a groomer was a predatory grown-up preparing to molest a kid. Then Christopher Rufo, the activist who did more than anyone else to inject the term into today's politics, redefined it as a "spectrum of behavior." Children, he tweeted in 2022, "can be groomed into a sexual identity, groomed into an ideological system, and, in some cases, yes, groomed for abuse." The rhetorical aim was clear: It was a way to raise the specter of the child molester without having to demonstrate that any specific person is a child molester.
That specter has long haunted our culture wars. Whenever a sexual minority's legal rights or social status seems to be increasing, someone is certain to raise the alarm that Pedo Power will surely be next. In 1994, as gay freedom was becoming a mainstream cause, the head of the right-leaning Rutherford Institute claimed that "the logical implication of American acceptance of homosexuality is the acceptance of pedophilia as simply another form of 'sexual orientation.'" In 2004, with gay marriage a central issue in the year's elections, the head of Liberty Counsel wrote that "Once the same-sex marriage barrier is broken, a wide range of sexual paraphilia rights are sure to follow, including, but not limited to, pedophilia." In 2015, right after the Supreme Court's Obergefell ruling struck down state bans on same-sex marriage, the prominent Texas Republican Allen West circulated an article about pedophile advocates under the header "That was FAST: Yesterday it was gay marriage; Now look who wants 'equal rights.'" (The article was actually several years old.) In 2022, with a new group in the culture-war crosshairs, The Federalist ran a feature headlined "Why Accepting Child Transgenderism Will Pave The Way For Accepting Pedophilia."
Each time someone tells this tale, it is less plausible than before. Nearly half a century ago, there actually were notable currents of radical opinion that wanted to normalize pederasty and abolish age-of-consent laws. The successes of the gay rights movement have not made such views more popular. If anything, they have become more radioactive. The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) no longer marches in pride parades, and gay papers no longer publish extended debates about whether such groups belong in the fold. Even the small handful of activists who do talk about destigmatizing pedophilia are much more likely to claim that this will make it easier for pedophiles to get psychiatric help than to suggest they're doing nothing wrong. And the rise of trans rights has not changed that at all. (That's why Rufo has to fall back on phrases like "groomed into a sexual identity"—they let him conflate two very different phenomena.) In fact, the increasingly dominant view on the left today is to oppose any large age differences in romantic or sexual relationships, even when both parties are of legal age.
That isn't simply a matter of ideological drift in the LGBT movement. There are larger sociological reasons why many people in the West were more open to tolerating genuine groomers in the immediate aftermath of the 1960s, and there are larger sociological reasons why the taboo wound up getting stronger instead. To understand that, we need to revisit that moment in the 1970s and early '80s when it briefly looked like pedo lib might have a future.
Bay State Grime
On April 5, 1978, Gore Vidal stood before a judge and suggested that statutory rape laws should not exist.
The novelist was not on trial. He was delivering a speech in a crowded Boston church, and the chief justice of the state's Superior Court happened to be in the audience. The judge later insisted that he had merely been there to see a famous writer speak and that he didn't realize he'd come to a rally for a controversial cause.
Specifically, he'd come to a fundraiser to defend two dozen men charged with molesting kids in Revere, Massachusetts, a downmarket suburb that had already acquired a pretty grimy reputation before the local district attorney (D.A.) declared that a nationwide sex ring was headquartered there.
Grime seemed to be everywhere in Boston just then. First there was that alleged sex cabal in Revere, a story that eventually turned out to be somewhat overblown—the accused were not actually a "ring," and only one of them was eventually incarcerated—but for the moment had the state on edge. Then the D.A. set up an anonymous hotline for people to report suspected predators, a system that civil libertarians feared would be used to target anyone a caller thought might be gay. Then there was a series of stings at the Boston Public Library, where cops nabbed dozens of men for having sex in the first-floor men's room.
And then Chief Justice Robert Bonin showed up at that rally. The judge always insisted afterward he had no idea before the event, or even after it was underway, that it was an activist fundraiser. That may be true, though he stuck around far longer that evening than you'd expect from an official attuned to the demands of political survival. (He even asked Vidal afterward to sign his copy of Burr.) According to James Aloisi's 2012 book The Vidal Lecture, the knives had already been sharpened for Bonin, who had been enacting a court reorganization plan that many of the judicial old guard opposed. After the new scandal broke, he was forced to resign from the bench.
Looking back from 2023, his ouster isn't surprising: Even if he really didn't know what sort of event he had stumbled into, that's the sort of accident that could bring down any official, let alone one with powerful foes. What feels odder is Vidal—a bestselling author, a frequent TV commentator, a man who consorted with Kennedys—saying things like "When you think of it, should there be such a thing as statutory rape? That sounds to me like a contradiction." Even while acknowledging that some limits were appropriate ("I would say that puberty is a dividing line"), he questioned the premises of the law where those limits were enshrined.
Nor was Vidal alone. Allen Ginsberg, one of the most acclaimed writers of the day, came to Boston around the same time to read his poem "Howl." He inserted some new lines for the occasion, including one about men "busted for eye-contact in the Boston Public Library men's room when a handsome youthful policeman flashed his irish loins & winning smile." Ginsberg wasn't simply concerned about the civil liberties implications of the D.A.'s tactics: He also stopped by a local TV show and declared, "I had sex when I was 8 years old with a man in the back of my grandfather's candy store in Revere, and I turned out OK."
Vidal and Ginsberg were radical intellectuals; they took minority positions all the time. What feels truly alien today is that packed church. Let us take it for granted that not everyone in the audience that evening agreed with Vidal's views on statutory rape. No doubt there were people there who simply thought the defendants were innocent, or who feared the D.A. was gearing up to target the broader gay community, or who just wanted to see a celebrity speak. The fact remains that roughly 1,500 men and women were in the room with Vidal and Bonin that evening. Imagine that many Americans turning up at a fundraiser for a group of accused molesters today.
The Ambiguous Interval
Such ideas were never universally accepted in gay and lesbian circles. Indeed, they were fiercely contested: For as long as NAMBLA was marching in pride parades, there were vigorous efforts to kick it out. When Anita Bryant and other anti-gay activists of the era cloaked their crusades in concern for kids' welfare—"a particularly deviant-minded teacher could sexually molest children," Bryant warned in her 1977 book The Anita Bryant Story—most rank-and-file gays reacted by distancing themselves from any teacher who saw his students as potential conquests.
Such ideas were not limited to gay and lesbian circles either. You wouldn't have guessed it from Bryant's rhetoric, but most molestation cases involve men and girls, not men and boys. So it should not be surprising that "intergenerational sex," to borrow a euphemism of the day, had its heterosexual advocates too.
For an example, open the December 1977 issue of Penthouse, a magazine devised almost exclusively by and for heterosexual males. Turn to page 117. There you'll find a story by Philip Nobile headlined "Incest: The Last Taboo" and subtitled "Previously suppressed material from the original Kinsey interviews tells us that incest is prevalent and often positive." Much of the article deals with sex between siblings or cousins, but it ventures into adult-child encounters as well—most infamously with a line Nobile attributed to the future men's-movement leader Warren Farrell. He was studying incest, Farrell allegedly said, because "millions of people who are now refraining from touching, holding, and genitally caressing their children, when that is really part of a caring loving expression, are repressing the sexuality of a lot of children and themselves. Maybe this needs repressing, and maybe it doesn't."
Farrell later claimed that he had actually spoken of parents caressing kids "generally," not "genitally." If so, that's one of the most unfortunate misquotes in magazine history. But what's notable for our purposes isn't whether Farrell said the line attributed to him. It's that Penthouse printed it as an unremarkable comment by a figure the magazine was presenting sympathetically.
One expects Hustler to go further than Penthouse, so it may not be surprising that in 1978 it published a story arguing that children should be able to "choose their sexual partners freely (including adult partners)" and illustrated the article with several photos of nude kids. Before you dismiss that as the fringy provocations of a porno mag, consider this: Both the article and several of the pictures were reprinted from Erwin J. Haeberle's The Sex Atlas, a mainstream textbook that had crossed over to ordinary bookstores and found commercial success there too.
That book was not an outlier. Ideas like these were circulating around the edges of respectable opinion; they weren't exactly popular, but they were far more common than they are now. One enormously popular bestseller—1975's The People's Almanac—included a symposium surveying various famous folks about their personal visions of utopia. The book's co-editor declared in his responses that sex education should "begin with practical experience in which older women teach young boys and older men teach young girls."
Articles like Haeberle's reflected a current of countercultural thinking that thrived throughout this period. Since young people's liberties were strictly limited—by schools, by parents, by police—there was a "children's liberation" movement that said kids should throw off their shackles and enjoy lives of full freedom. As was often the case in the 1960s and '70s, the catalog of shackles to be discarded sometimes included sexual repression.
Such ideas did not need to lead to NAMBLA-style conclusions. A.S. Neill's Summerhill, the 1960 book that helped inspire dozens of anti-authoritarian "free schools," has a long section devoted to young children's sexuality, each page of it drenched in the influence of the radical psychiatrist Wilhelm Reich. It is by turns absurdly utopian ("No man with a good sex life could possibly torture an animal, or torture a human, or support prisons") and surprisingly atavistic (Neill declares homosexuality unhealthy). But it never suggests that children and adults should have sex together; instead it focuses on allowing kids to masturbate ("from the earliest moment the child must be completely free to touch any and every part of his body") and to engage in sexual play with their peers ("a natural, healthy act that ought not to be frowned on"). For some readers, the argument stopped there. Others decided to drag it in a…different direction.
If gay activists were still more likely than their heterosexual counterparts to talk about changing age-of-consent laws, there were historically contingent reasons for that. For one thing, some jurisdictions had a higher age of consent for gay sex than for straight sex; many people who had no larger interest in changing the age of sexual majority still wanted to end that discrimination. For another, it wasn't extremely unusual for a gay man's personal story back then to include a part like this: When I was 15, my parents kicked me out for being homosexual, so I hitched a ride to Castro Street, found a more welcoming community—and had sex with some of them. Precisely because gay relationships are more accepted now, that sort of background is much rarer; queer kids are more likely to stay home and happily, openly date people their own age.
There was also a general social tendency to group together sexual practices deemed perverse. Differentiations that seem obvious today did not always come naturally to people in the past. The most striking example: Congress did not pass a law dedicated to stopping child pornography until 1978. That didn't mean you could walk into any drugstore in 1940 and buy kiddie porn. It meant such material was restricted, on the federal level at least, by the same laws that governed porn in general. After those broader rules were liberalized, lawmakers started drawing more distinctions.
So did the people whose sexuality had been stigmatized. In her 2020 book Unspeakable, the University of Victoria historian Rachel Hope Cleves examines the life of Norman Douglas, a once-beloved but now largely forgotten British novelist who kept a private journal describing his deflowerings of thousands of boys and girls. Douglas did not hide his proclivities during his lifetime, which ended in 1952. To the extent they were known, they were regarded with the same mixture of bourgeois disapproval and bohemian tolerance that an uncloseted gay artist might have received. Borrowing the radical anthropologist Gayle Rubin's metaphor of a "charmed circle" of socially acceptable sexuality, Cleves writes: "Identity categories that are distant from one another today—like loose women, lesbians, and pederasts—were more proximate when they were all outside the charmed circle. Pederasty was less taboo before the 1950s, in effect, because so many other behaviors were disreputable as well."
With time, a new logic for the circle established itself: More and more, Americans valued consensual relationships between people of roughly equal social status. A marriage between two 30-year-old women was increasingly acceptable; a marriage between a 40-something man and his 20-year-old secretary was increasingly not. The 1970s came in that moment—call it the Ambiguous Interval—after a wave of rebellions had challenged the old order but before the emerging new rules were clear. When the rebels demanded youth liberation, did that mean kids should be liberated from puritanical restrictions on their sexual behavior, or did it mean they should be liberated from adults who wanted to prey on them sexually? The answer, it turned out, was a bit of both: The country has grown more tolerant of teens having sex with each other—but if you're older, you need to keep your hands off.
Over the Border and Across the Ocean
If this move first to accept and then to reject the NAMBLA constituency stemmed from such larger social shifts, you might expect similar developments to take place in comparable countries at roughly the same time. And sure enough, the U.S. was not alone.
In 1977, a Toronto-based LGBT outlet called The Body Politic ran a story by Gerald Hannon called "Men Loving Boys Loving Men." Many articles over the years have walked a delicate line, aiming to humanize pedophiles without endorsing pedophilia. This was not such a story. Hannon blazed past that line, writing glowingly of "sexual, loving relationships with boys"; toward the end, he described two people, one age 12 and one fully grown, giggling naked in a sleeping bag while Hannon lay nearby, listening. After the article appeared, police raided the Body Politic offices and the paper's owners were charged with transmitting "indecent, immoral or scurrilous matter" through the mail.
They were eventually acquitted. They celebrated by publishing the article again.
By that point, events in Toronto looked like an only slightly distorted reflection of events in Boston. Just as the Revere case sparked fears among people who didn't approve of pederasty but were disturbed at the district attorney's tactics, the Ontario defendants drew support from people who had no love for Hannon's article but had no sympathy for censorship either. Just as the Boston-based Gay Community News ran fierce debates over pedophiles' place in the movement, so did The Body Politic. In both Boston and Toronto, some of the strongest opposition to erasing the age of consent came from the lesbian community—to the point where Elaine Noble, Massachusetts' (and America's) first openly lesbian state legislator, endorsed the D.A.'s anonymous tip line. But both the Boston editors and the Toronto editors also found some dissenting lesbians willing to take the other side of the debate. In Gay Community News, the contrarian article ran under the headline "On 'Woman/Girl Love'—Or, Lesbians Do 'Do It.'" The Body Politic's story was dubbed "'I was fifteen, she was forty-three….'"
Toronto is only about 550 miles from Boston, so perhaps it's unsurprising that similar events would unfold in both cities. So let's turn to the United Kingdom, where the biggest difference is that events played out slightly earlier: The British counterpart to NAMBLA, the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE), was founded in 1974. Just as in the U.S., parts of the gay movement condemned it and parts were sympathetic. PIE was affiliated for a few years with the National Council for Civil Liberties, the British equivalent of the American Civil Liberties Union; during that period, the council urged "a change in the attitude which assumes that all cases of paedophilia result in lasting damage." There was much less room for such talk by the mid-'80s, and the council severed its ties with PIE.
The story in France has some parallels too, despite some notable differences rooted in the unusual history of that country's sex laws, a history that Scott Gunther of Wellesley College sketches in his 2009 book The Elastic Closet. Under the Ancien Régime, a Frenchman could face the death penalty for engaging in gay sex, but the revolutionary government decriminalized sodomy in 1791. After that, the only way a same-sex coupling could lead to an arrest was if it also violated a different statute, such as the laws against sex with a minor. When the pro-fascist Vichy government decided during World War II to crack down on homosexuality, it did so not by banning sodomy again but by tweaking how sex with a minor was defined: In 1942, France raised the age of consent for gay sex to 21, while the age of consent for heterosexual intercourse was fixed at 13. The latter was raised to 15 after the Vichy regime fell, but the basic setup stayed in place.
Since age-of-consent laws were at the core of how the French government regulated gay sex, they moved to the core of gay protest. (So did public indecency laws, especially after a 1960 statute doubled the penalty for public liaisons when the people involved were of the same gender.) Against that backdrop, a group of French intellectuals produced one of the most infamous documents of the 1970s: a 1977 petition, signed by luminaries ranging from the novelist Alain Robbe-Grillet to the philosopher Michel Foucault, that called on the government to not set any age of sexual majority at all.
The French lowered their age of gay consent to 18 in 1974, and in 1982 they equalized the age for gay and straight teens at 15. But they did not establish a crime of statutory rape until 2021. Sex with a minor, which carries a sentence of several months or years, is a separate crime in France from rape, which carries a much harsher penalty; before 2021, child molesters could not be convicted of rape unless prosecutors proved that they had used violence, coercion, threat, or surprise. Just a hop across the ocean from that crowded Boston church, Vidal's skylarking was already law.
Yet despite this radically different legal history, France's cultural history was not so different from the Anglosphere's. There as here, the age of consent for heterosexual intercourse used to be much lower. (Did you think there was something uniquely French about setting the age of sexual majority as low as 13? In 1885, most American states set their age of consent at 10.) There as here, there was a pre-'60s current of writing that presented pederasty as an idealized "Greek love." There as here, that mode of argument was replaced in the 1960s and '70s by arguments about youth liberation. And there as here, gays in the 1980s started doing more to distance themselves from sex with minors, and more broadly from forms of sexual expression that were unpalatable to mainstream society. They did this, Gunther notes, more through "a process of invisible, internalized control" than through the law; but they did it nonetheless. France may be distinctly French, but it still follows a broader Western pattern.
Other countries have their own local nuances and wrinkles. In West Germany, the hope to avoid a return to the Nazi past led many intellectuals to Wilhelm Reich's arguments blaming fascism on sexual repression. In his 1975 book Le Grand Bazar, the New Left leader Daniel Cohn-Bendit described his experiences working in a Reich-inspired German kindergarten; there, he wrote, sometimes "certain kids opened my fly and began to tickle me. I reacted differently according to circumstances, but their desire posed a problem to me. I asked them: 'Why don't you play together? Why have you chosen me, and not the other kids?' But if they insisted, I caressed them even so."
Cohn-Bendit later adopted a more respectable identity and became a Green member of the European Parliament. The Greens became more respectable too—elements of the party had adopted NAMBLAite positions well into the 1980s, but those days were behind it now. So there was a scandal when a journalist dredged up that old passage in 2001. Cohn-Bendit then claimed that he had made up the story and had put it in his book as a "pure provocation, designed to shock the bourgeoisie."
You can decide for yourself whether to believe that. Either way, it says something that the younger Cohn-Bendit felt that his not-so-bourgeois readers would accept it. Like that Penthouse reporter, he made assumptions about his audience that few modern writers would share.
Banishing NAMBLA
In the unstable atmosphere of the Ambiguous Interval, when the rules seemed up for grabs, even the activists who objected to sex with minors could not always agree on where to draw the line between the behavior they accepted or rejected. I don't simply mean the division between people who objected only to sex with pre-adolescent children and those who extended their opposition further into the teen years. When Rubin devised that phrase "charmed circle," far more than pederasty was being debated in gay and feminist circles. (And, yes, in libertarian circles too. The Libertarian Party held its convention in Boston a few months after Vidal came to town, and the man it tapped to give a presentation on "Gay Liberation/Human Liberation" was future NAMBLA co-founder Tom Reeves.)
Consider a 1980 resolution adopted by the National Organization for Women. After affirming the group's support for lesbian rights, it declared that "other issues" had "been mistakenly correlated with Lesbian/Gay rights by some gay organizations and by opponents of Lesbian/Gay rights who seek to confuse the issue." The document went on to reject not just pederasty but pornography ("an issue of exploitation and violence"), sadomasochism ("an issue of violence"), and public sex ("an issue of violation of the privacy rights of non-participants"). It didn't make it into the resolution, but many feminists were suspicious of transsexuality too.
These battles sparked some solidarity among some members of the contested groups. I vividly remember stumbling onto an LGBT radio show in Houston one evening in the '80s when the callers were debating whether NAMBLA should march in the annual pride parade. One listener offered this argument for letting them participate: "They were there for us, so we should be there for them."
But that wasn't the argument that ultimately carried the day. In 1986, after organizers barred the group from the Los Angeles pride parade, Mattachine Society co-founder Harry Hay decided to march with a sign that said "NAMBLA WALKS WITH ME"; another marcher tore the sign up. In San Francisco in 1987, the Eureka Theatre Company—the institution that would later premiere Tony Kushner's play Angels in America—was positioned to march directly in front of NAMBLA. One bullhorn-toting Eurekan took the opportunity to periodically yell "We're not proud of you!" and "You're disgusting!" at the chicken-hawk contingent behind them. In New York, according to the Seattle Stranger, a sadomasochist group issued a press release condemning NAMBLA's "disgusting, illegal sex which brings shame to our community."
City by city, the group was kicked out of pride events; eventually it was essentially exiled from the movement. The point of no return was probably the day Sen. Jesse Helms (R–N.C.) discovered that NAMBLA was affiliated with the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA), which had recently received consultative status at the United Nations. He promptly introduced, and the Senate unanimously endorsed, an amendment to deny the U.N. any funds until the president could certify that none of its branches or affiliates "grants any official status, accreditation, or recognition to any organization which promotes, condones, or seeks the legalization of pedophilia."
The U.N. promptly expelled the ILGA, which in turn expelled NAMBLA and similar groups. The ILGA had already encouraged them to exit in 1990, by passing a resolution condemning pedophilia, but actively kicking them out required an 80 percent vote to expel. Helms' bill ensured they had the votes.
There was no turning back after that. Even figures who once had vocally supported NAMBLA became more cautious. In 1984, Rubin had predicted that "people will be embarrassed by their collaboration with this persecution [of pederasts], but it will be too late to do much good for those men who have spent their lives in prison." By 2010 she had tempered her tone, declaring that she had been referring "primarily" to men who had sex with teens, not with pre-adolescents, and that she does "not have all the answers" to "the many complex questions about children and sex." Rubin's frequent collaborator, Patrick Califia, walked back his position almost entirely. In 1980 he had written in The Advocate that age-of-consent laws "are completely arbitrary and do not take into account the varying degrees of physical and emotional maturity possessed." In 2000, not long after he transitioned to a male identity, he announced that he had been "naive about the developmental issues that make sex between adults and prepubescent children unacceptable."
The Specter of the Groomer
By the time Obergefell was decided in 2015, it was clear to anyone paying attention that trans rights were next in line. But most social conservatives were blindsided by the transgender movement, perhaps because they were focused instead on the allegedly onrushing pedo threat. With the recent explosion of warnings about "groomers," some of them have started treating trans lib as though it's pedo lib in disguise after all.
But of course it isn't. There is a world of difference between allowing kids to claim their own gender identity and allowing adults to proposition them. No doubt you can find some people who favor both, but the first does not imply the second.
The pedophile rights movement has been decimated, and there is no reason to expect that to change anytime soon. When people think they see signs of pedo lib on the horizon, they are more likely to be seeing the scattered remnants of the old pedophile movement. Or stories about child molesters who aren't actually organized into a movement. Or signs that Hollywood or Madison Avenue is sexualizing minors, which does happen but has been happening for ages, whether or not pedophiles are organizing.
Or perhaps they see people who talk about "destigmatizing" pedophilia and who insist on using the term "minor-attracted persons" instead. That last group might initially sound like a plausible sign that something is brewing, but a closer look shows something else. Their position is that we need to distinguish people who feel pedophilic urges from people who actually act on those urges, that pedophiles who want to resist those urges are less likely to ask for psychological help if there's a stigma attached, and that we therefore need a label for people who feel sexually attracted to kids but refrain from molesting anybody. In a 2014 New York Times op-ed, Margo Kaplan of Rutgers Law School took the argument even further, arguing that such people should be protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) so they can come clean about their inclinations without worrying about losing their jobs.
For the record, I don't find those arguments convincing. They start with a real problem—people who want this sort of therapy are indeed often stymied—but adopting the phrase "minor-attracted persons" doesn't change that; it just comes across as a creepy euphemism. And ADA protection for pedophiles sounds like a bad joke. But these positions are obviously different from the idea that there's nothing wrong with adult-child sex in the first place. Conflating them with NAMBLA is like conflating a man who has implausible ideas about treating drug addiction with a man who thinks heroin is good for you.
Progressive opinion has not just turned against the idea of sex with minors; it has been extending its concept of who counts as a minor. Even as Rufo was stretching the definition of "grooming" in one direction, some left-leaning voices were using the word to describe manipulative or exploitative relationships between older men and young adults. Jezebel, for example, reported in early 2022 that three women had accused director Cary Joji Fukunaga of attempting to groom them. One of the women was 18 at the time he allegedly started to pursue her. The other two were 20.
On that topic, mainstream opinion isn't far from progressive opinion. CNN's Harry Enten recently examined U.S. Census data to see how many weddings each year have broken the old rule of thumb that men should only pair up with partners who are at least seven years older than half their age. The total had dropped sharply, from 28 percent in 1900 to just over 10 percent in 1980 to about 3 percent in 2021. (That's 3 percent for heterosexual unions. For gay couples, it was 15 percent—higher than the hets, but still substantially lower than the standard used to be.) But the more important change he found ran deeper. It was only in the last few decades, Enten discovered, that popular culture had started offering that rule as the largest acceptable discrepancy in a couple's ages. Originally, it had been offered as the ideal age gap.
To be clear: As best as historians can tell, 19th century American women typically married in their early 20s. At the turn of the 20th century, the average age gap between husbands and wives, for their first marriages at least, was just five years—more than now, but certainly not enormous. The shift here is in what is widely seen as acceptable, not what is typical.
Still, as late as 1969 about a third of America's weddings featured teenage brides (while just 14 percent had teenage grooms). The difference between then and now is huge. And that change, in turn, reflects an even larger social transformation.
The Modern Marital Ideal
In Stanley Kramer's 1967 message-movie Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, a white mom and dad confront their prejudices when they learn that their daughter's fiancé is black. When the film first appeared, many viewers complained that the black character was too flawless for the situation to be realistic. Kramer had an answer to those critics: He and his screenwriter had "deliberately made the situation perfect," he told the film critic Roger Ebert, because that sharpened his point: "If you take away all the other motives for not getting married, then you leave only one question. Will [the father] forbid the marriage because [the prospective husband is] a Negro? That is the only issue, and we deliberately removed all other obstacles to focus on it."
What does this have to do with our topic? Just this: That prospective husband is two decades older than his bride-to-be. That isn't the only way the pairing violates the modern marital ideal, in which husband and wife are roughly equally matched companions: He is also much smarter and more accomplished than she is, and they have not known each other long. They're both good-looking, but other than that it's hard to imagine what they might have in common. Few Americans today would object to the pairing on racial grounds, but several other objections are obvious.
Or at least they're obvious now. In the '60s, they were apparently invisible to both Kramer and his critics.
Ever since the Enlightenment, the feminist historian Stephanie Coontz has written, Western marriage has been shifting away from being a hierarchical "prefabricated institution" that was ultimately about "forging political alliances, sealing business deals, and expanding the family labor force." As late as the 1960s, "American legal codes assigned differing marital rights and obligations by gender," but since then both law and culture have kept changing, making marriage "an individually negotiated relationship between equals." From the opposite side of the political spectrum, the traditionalist writer Bryce Christensen offers a complementary take: "Once defined by religious doctrine, moral tradition, and home-centered commitments to child rearing and gender complementarity in productive labor, marriage has become a deracinated and highly individualistic and egalitarian institution."
Coontz was writing in 2012, Christensen in 2004. Both were reacting to the debate over same-sex unions, arguing that radical changes in heterosexual marriage had paved the way for gay weddings rather than the other way around. The more people accepted the idea that marriage should be a partnership between loving equals, to be negotiated and enjoyed on their own terms, the harder it became to argue against extending the institution to gay and lesbian couples. A decade after Coontz's article appeared, I'd add that something similar has happened with the trans movement. As the gender system became more flexible—as we became freer to choose among social roles that once had been rigidly "male" or "female"—it became more thinkable to extend that fluidity to gender identity itself. Changes in conventional heterosexual lifestyles made gay people and then trans people more widely accepted.
Those changes did not make age gaps more widely accepted. If anything, they made them less popular—and not just when it comes to marriage. Think of the opprobrium Leonardo DiCaprio gets for habitually dating women in their early 20s. Or the moment last year when Laura Dern and Sam Neill expressed regret for the two-decade age gap between their characters in the 1993 movie Jurassic Park.
When the age of consent in most states was just 10, that was not because Americans were reading some 19th century Summerhill and encouraging kids to experiment sexually. As the political scientist Carolyn Cocca notes in her 2004 book Jailbait, such laws were "less about the ability or lack thereof to consent to such activity on the part of the female, and more about protecting white females and their premarital chastity—a commodity—as property." At the end of Unspeakable, Cleves concludes that Douglas' molestations reflected "a norm of unequal and exploitative sexual relations that empowered privileged men to do as they pleased, and left women, children, and the poor to make the best of it."
It's telling that today's controversies about adults taking a sexual interest in younger people are as likely to involve progressives looking askance at traditionalists as they are to involve trads looking askance at progs. Take 2017's special election to represent Alabama in the U.S. Senate, when three women accused Republican candidate Roy Moore of sexually assaulting them. Two of the trio said they were in their teens at the time, several more women said he had come on to them while they were teenagers, and one of Moore's former colleagues told CNN it had been "common knowledge that Roy dated high school girls." Moore denied the alleged assaults but conceded that he may have dated teens when he was in his thirties. ("I'm not going to dispute anything, but I don't remember anything like that," he told radio host Sean Hannity.)
Moore is an ultraconservative with a history of high-profile culture-war battles, so it's no surprise that progressives would attack him or that the right would rally to his side. (Not all of the right, of course. He managed to lose the Senate race, something no other Republican nominee has done in Alabama since 1992.) But there was more at work here than mere partisanship. A Moore defender in The Federalist declared that it once "was not an uncommon occurrence" for older men to date teenagers, then argued that "this practice has a long history and is not without some merit if one wants to raise a large family." In such families, the writer continued, "the wife must start having kids when she is young. The husband needs to be well-established and able to support the family, in which case he will typically need to marry when older." This traditionalist argument elicited the sort of reaction among progressives that Vidal's ruminations on statutory rape prompted among conservatives.
In that Hannity interview, Moore commented that he didn't "remember ever dating any girl without the permission of her mother." It sounded like a throwback to the days when courtship was a transaction between parent and suitor. It was as alien to modern sensibilities as Hustler's story about children choosing sexual partners. Neither is likely to reenter the charmed circle anytime soon.
Could that change? Sure. One takeaway from this history, after all, should be that sexual mores can evolve radically. Maybe the social, economic, and technological trends that have shaped the modern marital ideal will be overwhelmed by new developments, sparking another transformation. The future is unwritten. As Cleves writes in Unspeakable, "The first decades of the twenty-first century will not be the final word."
But it's clear what trajectory we're on right now, and it does not lead to a land of groomers. If anything, it's taking us further away.
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "A Modern History of 'Groomer' Politics."
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The videos of Reason editor endorsed Biden and all of those underage girls are touching.
And sniffing.
Isn't sniffing on the rape spectrum?
Lord nose that the left probably removed it from the definition to protect Biden.
They scent it for revision.
The old definition didn't pass the smell test.
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Anger as EU project sees Police Scotland rebrand paedophiles as 'Minor-Attracted People' - Scottish Daily Express
A controversial move to label paedophiles as "Minor-Attracted People" in a top-level report has been defended by Police Scotland, with the force suggesting the EU was to blame.
Chief Constable Iain Livingstone's annual year end report refers to child abusers as Minor-Attracted People (MAPs). The move comes amid wider concerns by campaigners over what they see as attempts to rebrand paedophilia as a harmless sexual preference.
A spokesman for the force stressed that MAPs is not a term they routinely use to describe child abusers and said that its use in the report had to be understood in context.
He explained that the reference to MAPs was in relation to the force's engagement with the European Union's Horizon Europe Project – Prevention of Child Sexual Exploitation.
The report states: "The project's main agenda is to develop understanding and approach to avoid the victimisation of children by engaging Minor-Attracted People (MAPs) and providing them with the necessary support, treatment and guidance to help prevent criminal activities."
Once again, for emphasis:
The Law of Merited Impossibility
The coinage is Rod Dreher’s and goes back to the early debates on homosexual marriage. As Dreher formulates it, the Law of Merited Impossibility holds: “That will never happen, and when it does, boy will you [homophobes, transphobes, racists, sexists, whatever] deserve it.”
This Law is used, first, to disarm resistance to the latest leftist enthusiasm. Whatever the innovation is, it will have no adverse consequences. None! Puberty blockers and disfiguring surgeries have no downsides whatsoever. How dare you suggest they might!
Its second purpose is to dismiss out of hand “slippery slope” arguments—despite, or because of, the fact that every single such argument over the last twenty years at least has proved true. Worried that allowing people to “self-identify” as whatever sex they want will lead to pervy 50-year-old men exposing themselves to’ tween girls? Insist, loudly and indignantly, that that will NEVER happen and anyone who suggests it might is an alarmist bigot with a heart full of hate.
The third purpose is to enforce the new caste system. Those who get to impose fresh irrational indignities on the rest of us are the upper caste. Those who object, or even have reservations, are lower. The latter are not allowed to harbor, much less express, any doubts. Whatever humiliation the upper caste has planned for us, we deserve and must meekly accept. Hence when said pervy 50-year-old actually does start waving around “her” equipment in the girls’ locker room, if any parent dares object, let ’em have it with both barrels. That thing that ten seconds ago you said would “never” happen? Now it’s righteous punishment for the retrograde.
The Law of Merited Impossibility has done wonders for the Left in helping to ram through a wide variety of radical societal changes and cow into silence all opposition. It’s currently busy destroying girls’ and women’s sports, an outcome that we were assured would “never” happen. Though one wonders what the ladies did do to deserve it.
The Law of Salutary Contradiction
Which brings us to the Law of Salutary Contradiction, whose formulation is: “That’s not happening and it’s good that it is.” While the Law of Merited Impossibility applies to the future, this one is about the present. It’s what the ruling class immediately switches to after what they insisted would “never” happen is happening before everyone’s eyes.
Is the NSA spying on Tucker Carlson? That’s an insane conspiracy theory … which is also warranted by Tucker’s treasonous contacts with Russian officials as he seeks an interview with Putin.
Is the Biden Administration inviting in illegal immigrants, then putting them on military planes and shipping them to the heartland? Absolutely not … and these future Nobel Prize winners deserve their shot at the American Dream.
Once you learn to recognize this pattern, you see it everywhere. It is the cornerstone of ruling class rhetoric in the current year.
Progressives always want to adjust the language. Adding new terms like "minor-attracted people" are intended to legitimize and sanctify activities that most people would find abhorrent. Then they do research to prove their points.
The complicated research behind pedophilia
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2022/01/10/pedophiles-pedophilia-sexual-disorder/8768423002/
Not all people who sexually abuse children are pedophiles. Some pedophiles never abuse children, experts say, and some people who sexually abuse children do not sexually prefer them, but use them as a surrogate for an adult partner. They may be disinhibited and anti-social, with impulse control problems.
"There are child molesters and pedophiles. If you think of Venn diagrams, there's a lot of overlap," said Anna Salter, a psychologist, author, and internationally recognized expert who has done over 500 evaluations of high-risk sex offenders. "There are the people who are sexually attracted to children ... (and then) there are some people who molest kids who are not pedophiles. They molest kids because of anger. They molest kids because they're scared of adult women. They molest kids to get revenge, but they don't actually have an age preference for prepubescent children."
'This is not something that people choose'
Michael Seto, forensic research director at the Royal Ottawa Health Care Group in Canada, said there is more neuroscientific knowledge of pedophilia than ever before. MRI research is showing how sexual interests develop in the brain.
"I think as a field, we've accepted the idea that this is not something that people choose," Seto said.
Seto said pedophilia is something people are born with or at least have a predisposition to. Evidence shows men are more likely to have pedophilia than women. This aligns with research showing men are more likely to have other paraphilias, including exhibitionism, voyeurism and sadism. Men are also more likely than women to commit criminal acts.
Research also offers insights into risk factors. Seto said men with pedophilia have a much higher incidence of early childhood head injury. One study on diagnosed pedophiles showed they are more likely to report their mothers had received psychiatric treatment, which suggests the disorder may be influenced by genetic factors.
Salter said when she conducts trainings, she often asked the audience, "How many of you have ever had an inappropriate sexual thought?"
If no one raises their hand, she tells them they're in denial.
"Of course, people have had inappropriate sexual thoughts. You may be attracted to your wife's sister. You may be attracted to a 16-year-old postpubescent babysitter. It doesn't mean you act on it," she said. "Pedophiles may not have control over the fact that they are attracted to kids, but they are responsible for whether they do or don't act on it."
Salter's conceptualization of the dynamics of sexual abuse involves a motor and brakes. Many people experience inappropriate sexual thoughts (the motor) but there are brakes (empathy, for example) that keep someone from acting on them. For a pedophile, the motor is their sexual attraction to children, but they can still use brakes to stop from abusing.
Salter said more research is needed to understand why some pedophiles do not act on their attractions, but her clinical observations suggest at least some pedophiles with bad brakes are raised in homes where they were mistreated or neglected. There is also a genetic component, as some pedophiles show psychopathic traits.
The controversy over 'destigmatizing pedophilia'
An academic at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, who talked about “destigmatizing pedophilia” and referred to pedophiles as "minor-attracted people" resigned in November following outcry over the phrase. Allyn Walker argued destigmatizing the attraction would allow more people to seek help and ultimately prevent child sexual abuse.
There is growing support in the field for Walker's point of view. While Cantor said there's no treatment that can turn a pedophile into a non-pedophile, pedophiles can be taught self-control and compensatory strategies, which he said is more likely if they're under the care of a professional. He argues that pedophiles need to be able to access therapy, which can be difficult since those afflicted may be ashamed to seek help or worried about being reported to the authorities if they do.
"Where do you want the person? Therapy is where he should be going, and all we've done is make it very, very difficult for a pedophile to get that," Cantor said. "Which to me is insane. It makes the problem worse."
Salter said while pedophiles do not choose their attractions, she does not believe those who offend are being punished unfairly. Treatment should be encouraged, but without minimizing the impact abuse has on victims' lives.
"It's a choice to act on child molestation," she said. "We don’t need to say, 'Offending isn’t so bad. It really isn’t your fault. ... You really couldn’t control it. You are a victim of a punitive society.' We need to say, 'Offending is devastating. It damages the lives of victims. It has damaged your life. You can learn to control yourself. You have the capacity to do better.'"
Those videos certainly touch my gag reflex, that's for sure. 🙂
Just for the record, speaking as a Pan, my orientation means consenting, non-related adults only, and older ones preferred.
Children, dumb animals, and family are completely out of my sexual wheel-house. I run like Hell away from any porn with the tag lines like "Teen," "Mother," "Father," "Daddy," "Son," "Brother," "Sister," "Cousin," or even "Step-Relative.". *Yeeech!*
While I am in favor of Un-Schooling and self-directed learning for people of all ages, that doesn't automatically translate to carrying things out. Sometimes, Little Joey doesn't belong in the cockpit even with the presence of a trained pilot.
Airplane--Joey, have you ever???
https://youtu.be/9qGPgr6Nuck
I'm not a big crowd type of guy, so I'm not really marching next to anybody. And as much as I've spoken against child abuse and sexual abuse in religion, nobody better dare call me a "groomer."
With all that said, let the punnery continue until the morale goes sideways in laughter. 🙂
For someone who claims to be "Pan", you sure are very exclusionary. That just makes the label as defined today all the more absurd.
Just admit you're bisexual and nothing else, the "pan" stuff as they define it is full of nonsense.
The social changes that paved the way for gay and trans acceptance have made pedophile acceptance less likely, not more...but gives pedophiles much more opportunity to offend.
Don't confuse the two issues.
I had to search the article for the term "MAPS." The fact that he didn't mention this rebranding of pedophilia and the plethora of mainstream sites propping this stuff up gives lie to his whole premise. For some reason he ignores how often pedophilia advocates are getting positive exposure in mainstream outlets. He ignores the push to recognize it as just another orientation. He ignores the fact that "gays against groomers" now exists because of the many movements pushing radical gender, sex, and political garbage on kids. He pretends that the gay and trans trends with kids isn't actively being forced on them by schools and media. He ignores CRT and DEI initiatives.
Groomers are way more prevalent now. The kids are being sexualized more often by a larger number of people even if you entertain the idea that physical sexual abuse of kids is down.
This entire article is nothing but gaslighting because Walker sides with the groomers politically and socially
Correct.
This article is attempting to sneak in pedo promotion.
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The terms child, minor, adolescent and juvenile will be replaced with undocumented adult.
Just looking after the little guy
Bill O'Reilly, call your office! 🙂
Morally-fluid person.
Fluid! Ewwww!
The children will be allowed to identify as adult, so long as their groomers coach them to do so.
I’m surprised it wasn’t written by Shackford.
The first draft was, but things were way too obvious in that one.
Huh. The only MAPS I'm familiar with is the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. Am I hopelessly square? Can someone fill me in on a more recent meaning?
OK, farther down the comments reminded me that the article mentioned "minor-attracted persons", which I infer "MAP" to be the acronym of in this context. But if you searched that string in the article, you wouldn't've seen its expansion. I would pluralize the acronym "MAPs".
Yeah, I read more of the article later and saw that. I was actually angrier about he handwaved that one away.
Of course you don't see "MAP" in the article.
Walker is trying to cover up the increasing efforts of the left to sexually abuse children.
He wrote it out. Would he do that if he were trying to hide the term? Is the acronym jargon that more people would look for now, if they were unfamiliar with the concept? I doubt that!
The more realistic complaint is that the subject is prominent enough that he should have included the evidence for it.
That's OK. I'm an electrical engineer and every time I read "CRT" I wondered what "Cathode Ray Tubes" had to do with race.
Hence the handle "Old Engineer"?
😉
Fret not. I'm old enought to remember big, bulky CRTs too. I only wish Racism was as old and unwanted as Cathode Ray Tubes, but some people are still trying to keep it alive.
It is interesting that language right out of Gayle Rubin's Thinking Sex having entered mainstream discourse doesn't get touched upon. The only thing being touched upon is your children.
Yes. I can see his argument, but downplaying the entire “Minor Attracted Person” and the push to include children in overtly sexualized events is to ignore the elephant in the room.
There is now even a push to have children lie to their parents and secretly transition genders, and condemnation of laws that ban schools from enacting the practice.
It wasn’t very long ago that teachers secretly talking to their students about sexual matters and hiding things from their parents were the villains of stories, not the heroes.
Most of the gay community that I know is horrified by these changes and wondered how it came that the community is somehow incorporating the horrible stereotypes and embracing them.
As Rackets always says, maps belong on the wall.
Maybe you should read the article instead of searching it.
You have to be retarded or at least a peso enabler to believe that. Every day there are stories of people bringing children into sexual situations well beyond their capacity to understand and there are legions of leftists defending such. The entire gender identity praxis is about confusing kids and sexualizing kids and leftists of all stripes find this acceptable. You and Jesse are lying.
Mexicans are peso enablers for sure.
To coin a phrase.
"Pesos for Pedos" has a nice fundraising activist ring. It could work in the border states or in Canada.
“Vote For Pedo” could work in Idaho.
You mean California
Where was Epstein from?
From New York City... and Epstein Island, of course.
Get a rope! What…… wait……..
Never mind. Someone beat me to it.
"He'll Make Your Wildest Nightmares Come True!". GOSH!!!
Talking kids into "doing something" medically about silly grade-school-age wishes that they were the other sex results in those kids being mutilated and sterilized for life. This needs to never happen. Time enough for someone to act on his/her desire to change when s/he is an adult. Until then, transgenderism is abuse worse than mere pedophilia, and the person who persuades them needs to go to prison.
Yet we have the defense of "Drag Queen Story Hours", taking children to drag shows and having them stuff bills into the performers lingerie, the celebration of a prepubscent "drag queen".
Walker appears to have cherry picked his trends.
The trans community openly supports kink education of kids. It is tied into the culture. You see public schools now teaching kids how to use sexual devices. Books normalize sex to young children. Teachers saying to teach kindergarten students about masturbation. And a trans culture being celebrated as fun and vibrant to bring kids in. The trans culture celebrates young children in drag having dollar bills thrown at them. See Desmond is amazing for an example.
This article is pure narrative building.
Strange seeing obese gender change folks, especially in public schools, since the left had that campaign to ban trans fats.
Obesity is a hate word sir. You may have great puns but I will stand very slowly and wobbly in protest of your hate.
Wait. Not obese. Feel free.
The word obese weighs heavily on the fatties?
It’s a hard word for them to wrap their clothes around.
Speaking of wrap, a fried chicken and bacon with ranch and extra cheese sounds like something they would nom nom nom nominate for second breakfast.
I have a gnawing feeling that dessert would come with Breakfast II. What would they chews?
There are so many options, it would take some time to digest.
Some may not be able to stomach the effort.
Is Second Breakfast two meals away from FourthMeal from Taco Bell? 🙂
https://youtu.be/c2WFcfN1eoU
This was from back in The Less Bad Old Days of 3 years ago when places actually stayed open after Midnight. Ah, memories! 🙂
Let them chew on your question for a bit.
Let’s scale it down with the obese puns. There are hefty costs to ignoring the larger issue here.
"GET OFF FAT! GET OFF FAT!"
🙂
https://youtu.be/I9QBaKixc5I
Wait, are you guys talking about Jeffy? I would figure him to be all over this issue. Given his big $440 takeover of NAMBLA last year.
There are volumes of papers about "queering" education.
The term means literally installing marxist indoctrination.
James Lindsey covers it well.
Yep. Like with most progressive activism, the headline topic is just a cover for totalitarian goals.
Examples:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/06/29/pride-month-kink-consent/
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/chicago-citys-largest-childrens-hospital-offers-kink-trans-friendly-sex-toys-for-minors
A video from YouTube often promoted to kids about kink, from the trans community.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zetUNHdJteg
Trans community explaining why kink is important as it helps transition kids early.
https://thecspc.org/news/2019/7/7/what-kink-did-for-me-as-a-transwoman
"Why do right wingers care so much about the culture war!?!?!?!
We just want to use dildos on your 9 year old son why do you need to this into a culture war item?"
Why not? If infants are capable of choosing their gender, surely a nine year is cleared for prosthetic anal penetration, said Jeffy.
Here's more:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-schools-watchdog-finds-hundreds-employees-groomed-sexually-assaulted-students
https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/boston-childrens-hospital-says-kids-know-theyre-trans-from-the-womb-in-deleted-video/
Far more Leftard-ism comes from commie-education than many people give it credit for. It is WAY past-time to destroy the Commie-Education regime. Commie is not the path the USA was founded on.
Most of the reason for family/offspring dysfunction is a direct result of Commie-Education and Commie-Economy (Sugar Daddy) subsidizing the consequences of being a Commie-Moron (liability).
i.e. People wouldn’t be so stupid if they weren’t getting paid by armed-robbers to be so stupid.
Case & Point; There just isn't a lot of jobs or prosperity out there for men to play with other men's butt-holes for sexual satisfaction but heck if claiming to do so cheats immigration laws and allows for *special* people status *entitlements* (Gov-Guns demanding respect) -- then why not right? That's what happens in gangland politics.. Join the right GANG and you get to use GUNS and demand whatever one's heart desires.
Stupid is the path of least resistance, and most people are fairly lazy.
Don't forget the quest for eternal childhood.
Enter ye in at the strait path: for stupid is the path, and progressive is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
The easiest way is to stop sending your kids to government schools. Progressives are obsessed with trains, but buses are a close second.
Now if only parents could retain the $13,187/each student they get robbed of for it.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/public-school-spending-per-pupil.html
170 School days per year (8AM to 3PM = 7) = 1190 hrs.
Minus Lunch & Reccesses = ~1000hrs / year.
For 1 to 1 education. Equivalent pay for a 1 to 1 personal FT tutor/care-taker = $11/hr.
… or $330/hr for a class of 30.
Equivalent pay for 1 to 1 just Education Hrs = $13.18/hr.
… or $395.40 for a class of 30.
Don’t tell me the private sector couldn’t do this cheaper and better.
PUT-DOWN those Gov-Guns and there would be a school outfit in every block. Communism makes everything SUCK.
Because (once again);.... GUNS don't teach children.
I think that you are referring to this.
https://cultureshield.com/PDF/45_Goals.pdf
Number 26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, and healthy."
This would be the main one and it would be supported by:
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the
curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, and policymaking positions.
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion
pictures, radio, and TV.
that was a scary read they have already accomplished so many or their goals
Then the D.A. set up an anonymous hotline for people to report suspected predators, a system that civil libertarians feared would be used to target anyone a caller thought might be gay. Then there was a series of stings at the Boston Public Library, where cops nabbed dozens of men for having sex in the first-floor men's room.
Okay, maybe this should be a tort instead of a crime, but surely we can't be that upset that they were cracking down on the amounts of sex taking place in the public bathrooms in the public library-especially in a pre-internet era when libraries were much more relevant. I think people appreciate not having to listen to or watch coitus happening when they're using the restroom, especially if they're bringing their kids to the library.
Sex talk in a public library? Catalog that using the Gooey Decimal system.
How can that be used on on non-friction?!
Some authors are just plain slippery.
The penis mightier than the sword.
I hate to prick your balloon, but that’s just a common phallusy.
Balloons? Now we're bringing drugs in through the back door? 😉
Especially if it's a Bic Banana Ink Crayon sold by Charles Nelson Reilly. 🙂
https://youtu.be/RNdERG8kcXk
It’s also important to get the kids outside. Maybe a petting zoo. Where they can rub the heads of the cocks, and pet some pussies.
Sex in the library? Book em!
Make sure you get their prints, too! We need binding evidence!
Time to take things firmly in hand.
I’m sure the arrest report will be a real page turner.
Gives a whole new meaning to the term "bookworm."
🙂
FYI, straight people are busted for having sex in public places too.
Some places are a shittier choice than others, but I guess it depends what urine to.
We had the same problem several years ago when there were rumors of gay men having sex in the restrooms at a nearby State Park. Their solution was to shutdown the restrooms and have police patrol the area. They never did get any gay men, they did write a lot of citations for people going to the bathroom in the woods. Several of those went on the sex offender registry to beef up their stats for more funding.
Wow! That is an impressive body of work. I don't think we have seen such a thoroughly researched and lengthy article in months.
And an interesting thesis.
But...for some reason you have the condemnation of Roy Moore, but not any of the stuff that people are talking about when they press "groomer" adjacent to LGBTQ issues. So much careful research.. a mountain, really, and you didn't find any of what people are talking about when they say "groomer" in this context? Yes, "minor attracted person" is on the edge of the issue. And yes, it is creepy.
But.
The core of the issue is the direct targeting of children... Young children.. with what one could charitably call "LGBTQ+ positive messaging". Less charitably.....
I don't have this issue on the top of my personal list, what with the propaganda machine breaking my delusion that I live in a free country with a free press, so I never followed things like "Libs of TikTok". But I am aware that they exist.
Can you good reasonites help Jessie out? I am sure there are at least a dozen libs of TikTok examples you could bring. I remember the controversial elementary school book that purported to be a handbook to being gay that included illustrations of gay sex - including what appeared to be an adult male being orally pleasured by a young boy. The activist community unquestionably defended that book in elementary school settings.
There are lots of videos posted by actual teachers themselves, proudly detailing how they press LGBTQ positivity in the classroom, far beyond a "these people exist and everyone deserves respect" level and to the point that you see early elementary school and preschool teachers bragging that large percentages of their students have come out as gay and trans. Large as in a third or more of all of their students, not large as in 2%, which would represent more than half of actual LGBTQ students.
This is what people are talking about. A preschool teacher who convinced a bunch of her preschool children to declare that they are transgender. Combine these stories with stories of families in battles between parents or between parents and schools about their children and gender affirmation and the intervention of the courts, you can see where concerns become fears. There are plenty of these same activists saying that not providing "gender affirming care" is child abuse.
Now throw in ",Drag queen story hour", ostensibly an effort to show that drag queens are normal people who are no threat to anyone. So we are going to have performers from drag shows reading to young children.
In costume. (and yes, I have been to actual drag shows.. they are a stylized burlesque of men dressed as a hyper-enhanced vision of womanhood. Almost a parody. And sexuality is front and center in the ethos.. at its best it is campy and bawdy fun. But I wouldn't call it kid appropriate).
This is not tinfoil hat connecting of the dots. These people are saying that they are working to make all of the LGBTQIA+ spectrum not just accepted in society, but normalized and even "cool" to very young children.
And although there is unquestionably some clean motivation of "kids need to be aware that heather might have two momies" in order to protect the LGBTQ community, there are also more than just a few who see their job as "helping children who don't know that they are LGBTQIAP to discover that identity and explore and express it". The examples are all over the internet, eeven if the big tech companies have worked to suppress the reach of people who are pointing it out from a "hey, is that really appropriate for elementary school?" Point of view.
Writing this article without including the key driving factor behind "groomer" in common parlance at this moment is a huge miss. It creates a false reality where people are just making up things out of whole cloth, and doing it contrary to a completely opposite reality.
This is not BLM activists screaming about thousands of unarmed black people being murdered by racist police every year.
Even if you want to argue that they are wrong. The people raising the issue of groomers are not inventing something completely devoid of a baasis in reality.
So, here is a call to Reason magazines educated readership... Attach the links here in the comments. I am sure there are many I am unaware of. But you cannot have an article about "groomers" in the current debate and have Roy Moore as the example.
Sure. Where do I start? Libs of TikTok has merely been documenting what these folk post themselves with minimal to no commentary on it.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1613623613156098049
Kindergarten teacher in @kckschools
read the gender identity book “Julian is a Mermaid” to students. The book is about a toddler who explores transitioning, cross dresses, and strips to his underwear to join a parade.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1613567227525046277
Non-binary teacher gets "their" validation when students use "their" correct pronouns. These are the people teaching your kids.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1613649885714329601
This is a training from @MUSChealth
on talking to adolescents about gender.
The doctor makes the parent leave the room so he can have a private conversation with the patient. Then the patient gets to decide if the parent can see their medical records.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1613238058446381070
A drag queen twerks and performs sexual dances in front of a young child as the child hands him cash tips at a "family-friendly" drag show in Texas
What is the term of art.... Limiting the reach?
So, I go to my favorite search engine, Google. I put in "preschool teacher LGBTQ activist posts video" as a search term, hoping to find some of the videos I have seen being passed around.
I got hundreds of articles talking about transphobia, libs of TikTok being transphobic, the right wing transphobic danger.... But no videos of preschool teachers. Now, Google is really good. They are on point with their results almost all the time. Yet...
All i get is Media Matters explaining that reposting videos of teachers talking about how they are teaching preschool kids about genderfluidity is transphobic.
So, I am less helpful than I would hope.
Maybe that explains our author excluding this core driving force from the discussion. If you cannot find it, does it exist?
One specific video I wanted to find was the teacher bragging that a bunch of her students had come out as trans or nonbinary.
There were at least three that got posted here in the comments. Again, not my issue so I don't have it anywhere handy. But I remember discussing that a teacher with 20 kids like a preschool or elementary school teacher would be lucky to have 1 or 2 transgender kids in an entire career. It just isn't that common.
So finding 5 transgender kids in a single 20 person class should be dispositive on the issue of what is happening. But the video is needed to really clearly demonstrated the issues at play..
This?
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1570902290302926850
5th grade teacher claims multiple students have come out to her because she’s “out and proud.” 10-year-olds are coming out as trans and non-binary to their teachers…
Thank you.
And I wasn't even referring to that one. The one we discussed here that I recall was younger and the kids were younger.
Although, it is on point. 5th grade means her class is probably about 22 or 23 at most. And in 5th grade they stick with one teacher most of the day. Also, these are almost exclusively prepubescent kids, so having a sexual identity of any kind is unusual. The brain kinda turns that off from age 5 up through about the time they are in 5th grade when it begins to turn back on.
Targeting kids at that moment, when they begin to have a sexuality of a sort, but have not yet experienced puberty and the strong drives that come with it.... Well... Let's just say that this is a delicate time for these issues.
Further refining and adding terms yielded mostly "these people are transphobic" articles with a smattering of offerings from right wing commenters like Ben Shapiro. This appears to be a hot button issue for him... But I was looking for primary sources and not obvious right-wing commentary that can be dismissed.
They are very successful at hiding the ball.
Yes, they are rather good at hiding this. The colloquial term is “Google Fu”, the ability to make the search engine find what you want to find. It also takes some digging as most search engines seem to be set up to give you the progressive items and news first, then bury anything else.
Even the brave search is starting to get biased to major media. I've been disappointed lately and often have to use the site: tag.
You can't use google for sensitive topics that are likely to be manipulated. If you want to find a post about why Ubiquiti APs might cause network loops if Meshing is turned on, Google is great. If you want to search for arguments/counter arguments about [highly politically sensitive topic that has probably fit deep into the twitter censorship realm] you will literally be directed to 'explainer' articles about why arguing [against the establishment narrative] is wrong. Seriously, I've spent hours doing this on multiple ranges of sensitive topics and Google is amazing at not giving you what you want. One of the original searches I used to do to prove this was to open incognito windows in Brave and search for "stormfront". The differences were amazing.
How about Gopher?
If it worked well, I woodchuck out the other browsers.
Well heck, Beav, why go and do a goofy thing like that?
Try DuckDuckGo and go get the Duck outta here! 🙂
Google is a bit tricky when it comes to finding the Storm Fags. However, I tried typing in “Herr Robert Misek” and BONANZA!!!
Ben, Adam, Hoss, Little Joe, and especially Hop Sing would want nothing to do with Herr Misek. 🙂
I would dismiss it as urban legend, but...too many witnesses. Like the Holocaust.
"Google is really good"
No, google gives you only results that are MSM approved.
Sex toys in the classroom.
https://notthebee.com/article/project-veritas-exposes-dean-of-students-at-chicago-school-talking-about-how-he-enjoys-teaching-queer-sex-to-minors
We do a Pride week every year and I had our LGBTQ+ health center come in. They were passing around butt plugs and dildos to my students, talking about queer sex, using lube vs using spit... the kids are just playing with them.
And they get pissy when found out.
https://twitter.com/Project_Veritas/status/1600714336510439424?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1600714336510439424%7Ctwgr%5E7306cb999886fdec37e628ef80f41d4cd8c8d6ee%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnotthebee.com%2Farticle%2Fproject-veritas-exposes-dean-of-students-at-chicago-school-talking-about-how-he-enjoys-teaching-queer-sex-to-minors
UPDATE: @fwparker
just sent an email attacking Project Veritas & defending the schools "comprehensive approach to sex education"
Chicago Public Schools - teachers having sex with minors.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-schools-watchdog-finds-hundreds-employees-groomed-sexually-assaulted-students
Hundreds of Chicago teachers and school officials sexually groomed and sexually assaulted students or engaged in policy violations over the past four years, according to a report released this week.
And it's been going on for years.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/13/the-ignored-sex-abuse-scandals-in-chicago-schools-and-other-commentary/
William Kelly at The Washington Examiner asks a pointed question: “Why is Mayor Rahm Emanuel getting a pass on the Chicago Public Schools rape and sexual abuse scandal?” Democrats and the news media “have been giving him high fives as he takes a victory lap on his mayoralty.” Last June, though, the Chicago Tribune uncovered 523 credible cases of rape and sexual abuse of Chicago schoolkids over the past decade. Since September, CPS officials have received 624 new complaints, including one 16-year-old track star allegedly raped 40 times by her coach. Moreover, Emanuel’s school officials “knew about these abuse cases and hid them from the public for eight years.” Meanwhile, the Emanuel-controlled City Council “refused to hold hearings.” This “should be a national scandal,” says Kelly.
It's not happening and it's good for you.
Not exactly what you requested, but important reading nonetheless:
https://twitter.com/buttonslives/status/1614037770585907203?t=ENdYdYithV0gomjrm4Rgjw&s=19
The famous “Dutch studies” which formed the bedrock of “gender-affirming care” and have often been cited as the “best available evidence” in favor of child sex changes, has been completely debunked in a new study. Read my latest!
[Link to article, thread]
Hmmmm, I really wish that to get a masters you had to replicate a previous study instead of do something new. That way people had incentive to double check other people's work.
But you cannot have an article about “groomers” in the current debate and have Roy Moore as the example.
I completely agree. It's like saying "here's the platonic example of a Democrat" and posting comments by AOC.
Yeah, you're right, Mr. Walker did introduce a distortion by skipping that evidence in an article that's otherwise so inclusive as to make such an omission glaring.
I let others post links but I did read most of this tedious article and I was struck by the same thing. The author wants to restrict the definition of "grooming" to the actions of a pedophile who actually molests a child even while describing at length how the definition has evolved over time. He differentiates MAPs from pedophiles because the former have not acted on their urges and need a new descriptive acronym. Of course pretty much everybody has urges that they don't act on. It's part of being a functioning human being. And as you well describe, what we commonly call grooming these days is the overt sexualization of children by culture and government. When an organization like Gays Against Grooming gets banned from social media it's pretty obvious that a radical movement is pretty much in control here.
Having said all of that, I have always had a problem with the concept of statutory rape which by definition, is a consensual act. It is a crime against the state without a victim. I accept that establishing an age of consent can be consistent with libertarianism, but constantly raising the age simply creates more crimes. Just like raising the drinking age or smoking age or any of the other infantilization of young people. Biology hasn't changed.
He differentiates MAPs from pedophiles because the former have not acted on their urges and need a new descriptive acronym.
Most healthy heterosexual males who have never forced themselves on a woman could be described as "Rape Inclined Persons".
R.I.P.
I accept that establishing an age of consent can be consistent with libertarianism
From some of the horseshit I've seen come out of the mouths of some of my fellow so-called libertarians, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.
And as you well describe, what we commonly call grooming these days is the overt sexualization of children by culture and government.
Here, let me fix that for you:
"what we commonly call grooming these days is teaching children to be accepting of LGBTQ+ individuals."
Because "overt sexualization of children" gets little pushback when it's heterosexual individuals doing heterosexual things.
But it should!
Society now makes sex so "good-bad" (I forgot whom Alan Watts said he got that from) that it sets everyone up to transgress at least in manners if not in law. Society pushes sex on children and then criminalizes sexting. We have them wear clothes and act in ways "asking for it", and then we abhor the concept. We consider it uncouth to ask directly about it, then blame people for misreading the inexplicit, and bristle at the suggestion there's ambiguity there.
Totally, we should be putting a stop to all the heterosexual strip club story hours that are completely accepted in our society. Oh... Wait...
I think an age plus the legal ability to deviate from it considering conditions would be reasonable. I give a reason for downward departure below: a minor with Duchenne disease, which at least when my cousin had it, effectively deprived those afflicted from an adult life; maybe they're living more into adulthood now with improvements in care, but at that time many died in their teens, and almost all by their early 20s. And even then they'd probably be unable to have, or at least to enjoy, sexual intercourse for a few years before death, unless the lady is specially trained to maximize her contribution.
Anyway, the issue is the effectiveness of consent. I'm facing that issue now with a libertarian friend some of you old-timers in the movement may know of. I may wind up having him give me medical power of attorney, due to advancing vascular dementia. If it keeps advancing, soon his consent may be meaningless, and then someone else will have to decide regarding his interest.
I’m sorry to hear that.
And they got banned because the guy doing the banning is a grommer
It should also be pointed out the other stories reason has said weren’t happening the last decade or so.
DEI and CRT not being taught and staying in colleges. It is now pervasive in public schools and industry.
Vaccines were safe and effective, even VDC is admitting they are not exactly safe.
Russian hoax.
Return to normalcy on 2020 with no downside.
Cashless bail wouldn't cause extra crimes.
and also , every damn time, "it's not happening" turns into "it's a good thing it's happening!"
Always with an undertone of "Fuck you, peasant".
So, as a comparison, I looked for a video about the Magnus Effect.
But let's pretend that I can't remember that term.
I put a vague-ish search term about a video I had seen.
ball thrown from dam demonstrates spin effect
A whole bunch of videos of exactly what I want comes up.
https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-the-physics-behind-this-crazy-basketball-trick
The effect to hide what is happening is a canary choking to death. The groups still claim detransitioning is a myth. Mike is here all the time claiming no youth bottom surgery despite jazz Jennings getting it at 17 woth hospitals saying as early as 15. They are trying to hide what they are doing, and for some reason this magazine is on board with that.
Exactly. Mike and Jeffy try to gaslight us on it when anyone can find this information readily, even watching “I Am Jazz” on TV.
For some reason that made me think of Fight Club. “I am Jazz’s artificial vagina. I cave in and get infected, Jazz gets sick.”
So I head to Duck duck Go. Let's ask them
Basic search term...
libs of tiktok preschool teacher transgender
Bam. An entire first page of articles that are about that topic. Only one has the word "transphobic" in the headline.
Here is the first link
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/04/24/libs-of-tiktok-strikes-again-trans-teacher-tells-students-some-people-born-in-the-wrong-bodies-1229640/
So a massive difference between a source we know for certain is manipulating results for political reasons and a source that at least claims to give unbiased results.
Following a few links, the original videos are mostly unavailable. ,"This link is from a deleted account". Or "This link is from an account that has been made private"
So you can't watch the originals if some content creator or journalist didn't download and re-,upload the video.
Even a few of the Libs of TikTok videos said "this video has been deleted".
Just keeping our democracy safe.
Well DuckDuckGo is Bing and Yahoo, so it's not like their results are actually from a source that "claims to give unbiased results".
There was a time when a groomer was a predatory grown-up preparing to molest a kid.
Ahem, there was “a time” when the groomer was the barber. Now I feel sooo oollld!
What bothers me is now not being able to refer to this as children’s grooming: http://users.bestweb.net/~robgood/lather.htm
True Confession: I myself did some grooming when I was 11. Granted, it was at summer camp and was basically horseplay.
Whenever a sexual minority’s legal rights or social status seems to be increasing, someone is certain to raise the alarm that Pedo Power will surely be next.
It won’t be next, but it does seem to be coming eventually if thngs stay on their current course. That’s because the individualist concept of liberty hasn’t figured as a large enough factor in these social movements. Yes, libertarian thinking is always a part of it, but too large a part of the increase in sexual (or any) minorities’ legal rights has been tied up with that second factor, social status. We should be allowing so-and-so more autonomy because now the class so-and-so belong to is of higher status than previously. Because those things tend to happen together, the first seems to depend on the second.
Therefore society at large isn’t thinking enough about the underpinnings of autonomy, and we see such things as children changing sex because changing sex has higher status, not because children are assessed realistically as self-directed actors. So pedo power is probably coming on a similar basis unless society snaps out of the current delusion.
We’ve seen it before, when divorce went from a for-cause basis to a no-fault basis, without ever stopping in between at the basis of treating the parties as responsible contractors.
Same sex marriage was a similar product of insufficient attention to individual liberty and responsibility, resulting in facile application. Society had progressed for centuries toward increasing freedom of the individual as an autonomous individual even in marriage, but then forgot that marriage itself was only a necessary evil — that because of the existence children, an exception had to be made in treating every adult as autonomous in all respects. We'd pared down the unnecessary parts of that exception, so wives were no longer like the property of husbands, but then we forgot what marriage was for, that family law was a specially-created set of exceptions to individual liberty, and thus applied the concepts of individual liberty and equality superficially so as to create "family" couplings of the same sex.
Sometimes the coupling of the advance of individual liberty to other societal trends is harmless. Pot smoking becomes more popular, so it's legalized, and that doesn't hurt freedom in any way I can see. It just says that radical libertarians are never enough of a force to move these issues on their own, and we require society's image of certain activities to become less evil for them to become legal. As long as it doesn't cross over into making them mandatory, we're ahead of the game.
Right. But we do have a problem with at least one Reason editor believing that not only should certain things be legal, they have to celebrated. It’s the difference between accepting that other people can make their own choices and being told we have to approve of them.
Yes, prostitution and basically all forms of sex work should be legal when it involves consenting adults. I don’t have to think this is something men and women should aspire to. I consume porn and think allowing open to exist is healthy, but it’s not something to be proud of. I think it should be legal to get hammered every night and pass out on the kitchen floor, but I don’t think I should be forced to applaud it.
This seems to be a counterculture sort of mentality. The push to legalize abortions has turned into many people nearly celebrating their abortions. Some women make documentaries of their abortions or boast about the number they’ve gotten. And it’s not enough that gay marriage has become legal, they have to force every private business to bake a cake or make a website that celebrates their gay marriage, regardless of the actual feelings of the business operator. You can’t merely accept it, you have to express your explicit approval.
I think heroin should be legalized. I don’t think it needs to incentivized by publicly finding safe injection sites, or safe needle disposal areas. I think drug users have to take their own risk assessments, and we shouldn’t be subsidizing their medical costs. I think you shouldn’t be required by law to wear a seatbelt but I don’t think refusal to wear one is heroic, or that seatbelt defiance should be destigmatized.
And I think consenting adults have the right to refer to themselves by whatever names or pronouns and do whatever they want to their own bodies. I don’t think we have to applaud them for it if we think they’ve made a mistake, we r have a mental health issue. I certainly don’t think we should be propagandizing to kids about how important it is to transition, or how this is a lifestyle to celebrate.
It's called "Queering"
This is a political term.
"Nobody teaches* critical theory in schools!"
*While this technically might be true, using curricula and pedagogy based on CT achieves the same goals.
We’d pared down the unnecessary parts of that exception, so wives were no longer like the property of husbands, but then we forgot what marriage was for,
Well, one might argue that insisting that the purpose of marriage is for child-rearing is also one of the 'unnecessary parts'.
And you'd be wrong. As the way current society is right now, marriage has completely lost its meaning for existence, there's no reason for it to exist in the public (government) sector.
"In fact, the increasingly dominant view on the left today is to oppose any large age differences in romantic or sexual relationships, even when both parties are of legal age."
Hmm. I met my wife when I was fifty. She was twenty-eight. We've been married for nineteen years. I guess I piss off "the left." I can live with that. I will attempt not to revel in it too much.
I mean, if you want to equate your marriage to sexually assaulting prepubescent children...
Yikes
"I mean, if you want to equate your marriage to sexually assaulting prepubescent children…Yikes"
I am thinking you missed the following from the article, and my post: "....even when both parties are of legal age.”
Is “grooming” a form of “stochastic terrorism”?
Now that gay and lesbian rights have advanced enough, that faction's been thrown under the bus. 50-60 years ago it wasn't clear in homo-sex circles how much of a factor they were; the movement was still feeling around for its footing, and it took them a while to gauge how much help they'd need from various factions. Eventually they realized pedophilia was too picayune an interest group, heavier baggage than it was worth, so they were repudiated.
Happens all the time in social movements.
I'm not sure we need a gay rights "movement" or a civil rights "movement". Those rights are well established. And as far as I know there has always been a right to be transgender. I had a friend who got surgery and started wearing frilly dresses in the 70s. He was never in legal jeopardy. For the most part nobody gave a shit.
We in 1st and 2nd World indeed do not need these movements any more; they can do only harm here now. But in the 3rd World they still need these rights movements.
i suppose they might need those movements IF they want to live by the values of the 1st and 2nd worlds.
You can share some values and aspirations and not others.. What makes you think the third world wants the 'benefits' of these particular movements?
Feel free to move to UAE and tell them how backwards they are
And yet as several examples above show, the faction remains and still has plenty of supporters among the LGBT rights movement and others.
Is Jesse Walker Chem Jeff radical pedo?
When buttplug was asked if he was Gen X or a Millennial, he replied that he is a Baby Groomer.
Gen-G?
Gen-fluid.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1613675511217258501?t=R7XdZA5vKqO8TSJT-rZGYQ&s=19
This is an absolutely insane Wikipedia entry featuring @libsoftiktok, @realchrisrufo, and I.
[Link]
I recently saw another Wiki entry refer to Cultural Marxism as a far-right conspiracy theory.
Far-right and antisemitic, it says, because criticizing what Antonio Gramsci or the Frankfurt school Marxist critical theorists explicitly said is kooky, extremist, and racist apparently. Would the far-left narcissist editors who lord over this pet article prefer the term "Neo-Marxism" or perhaps "Western Marxism?"
https://twitter.com/BasedLibrarian/status/1614104387231846400?t=D0TgPPFzeFG9swJ4scoNqA&s=19
Beware: What begins as an innocent-seeming book, ends with a woman that has had her breasts removed. “Some people choose to have their bodies changed”
It’s just a normal thing guys. Make sure your kids know they can do it too. iNcLusIviTy
[Link]
Just like a children's book celebrating the 9/11 attacks or the Holocaust.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1613570322841608195?t=EUEywvsQMNLcBd1s51F8mg&s=19
A follower sent me this from the certification exam for the American Board of Family Medicine. It asks how the professional should respond to a child with gender dysphoria. If you choose delaying medical transitioning, that is incorrect. The correct answer is puberty blockers.
[Link]
Puberty blockers are a pedophile fantasy come true.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1613903064989057027?t=-k51io7ovsIplgy4PJnizw&s=19
A school in Colorado selling pride flag pins to students
[Link]
https://twitter.com/DrKarlynB/status/1613920089195286530?t=EdUxI6fUpLsbilvpfthJLw&s=19
Meet @DylanKapit. Last night, Dylan gave a webinar about AUTISTIC SEX EDUCATION in which they said the following:
"I will happily talk about masturbation with your autistic child. I've done it with many autistic children. It brings me a lot of joy."
[Thread]
Nobody taught me how to masturbate. Figured it out all by myself. But I was an exceptionally bright child.
https://twitter.com/Bilishfia/status/1613732247814787072?t=EobHGqmm2wYZ_zrzI4XWzA&s=19
"Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by their parents? To this crime we plead guilty."
– Karl Marx
His heir, Pol Pot, has a smiley on
It's not that complicated. America is a free country and adults should be free to live as they choose. Just stay away from our kids.
That's about where I'd stop too. But I could make certain exceptions. I had a cousin with the X-linked recessive (therefore nearly exclusive to boys) Duchenne muscular dystrophy who died at the expected age of 21 after years of debility. Seems to me boys like that should have the opportunity to have sex with an adult while they still physically can, but my understanding is that even sex therapists still wouldn't legally be allowed to do so, and it seems just plain awful to try to pair such patients up with girls their own age.
^ What in the actual fuck did i just read
claiming that children with cerrtain disaeases zshould be allowed to consent.
It could be an episode of Law & Order: Special victims Unit
Yes. Age of consent should be adjusted for those whose anticipated lifetime is much shortened. If you know a child isn't going to make it to the usual age of maturity, or isn't going to make it with other than flaccid muscles, shouldn't some earlier time in their life be available for them to enjoy "adult" things? That is, if you think they'd really enjoy it. No sense just scaring them.
Your opinion is a little cringe inducing but I'm not sure I disagree. I imagine what you describe has happened more than a few times in human history.
It's like the way a jurisdiction might make exceptions to their drug prohibitions for terminally ill persons. Not that I'm for drug prohibitions anyway, but I could see how people who are might still allow such exceptions in a generally prohibitory scheme.
https://twitter.com/CartlandDavid/status/1614105490417676289?t=KsE7VcY7OEOqEqNfEvpp2Q&s=19
How many verbal and non verbal cues here that informed consent is NOT being gained
[Link]
I note that classifying liberals as “progressive” or “classical” misses the actual distinctions. Liberals come in three flavors - Perverts, Parasites and Predators or some combination of the preceding. I’m torn on whether to file this one under “pervert” or “predator”. At least he isn’t demanding a government subsidy (yet), so we can at least cross “parasite” of the list.
Is there any activist American liberal who is not a parasite?
There were three flavors of Nazi thugs: SA, SS, and Gestapo, and you'd be right at home with all of them!
And one of the SS's most sadistic officers, Oskar Dirlwanger, was a convicted child molester and serial murdering, raping psychopath!
Oskar Dirlwanger--Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Dirlewanger
Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!
Ahh. I see where Mr walker got all his talking points from. An updated wiki page castigating the groomer term.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2023/01/13/wikipedia-goes-after-anti-grooming-activists-n1661697
https://twitter.com/UltraDane/status/1614114343964266498?t=UX-eXa0jUOy4Mde6EEwkIA&s=19
A literal demon resides in him/her (not being funny IDK what sex it is).
[Link]
That was bound up in the movement against unbalanced/unfair power relationships, resulting in an animus against, first, liaisons between supervisors and the supervised, and then later against all dating within the same firm. A place of employment changed from one of the good places to meet people of the opposite (or same, if you run that way) sex into a place where that was taboo.
There had always been the objection that there were conflicts of interest — that some people would benefit unfairly career-wise from sex or romance — but the difference has been that now the adverse influence is feared in the opposite direction — that it would run from advantage on the job to advantage in love.
Yeah, again, the LEFT started this culture war, people on the right just started running with it.
Yes, it’s a special case of the more general Marxist and anarchist critique of employment as “wage slavery”. And it is funny how often the "right" gets sucked into such critiques.
Not buying that. Both sides are hearty participants and escalators of their stupid culture war. It takes two to tango.
Can you do everyone a favor and just shut up dee?
We could start a numbering system for Dee’s bullshit. Boaff sides could be the number 1. Claiming to be libertarian is 2. Strawman would be 3. Goalpost shifting in the middle of a discussion 4. Chaff a redirect 5. Feigning unawareness of something that is established 6.
Mike Laursen Comments:
1. Boaf sidez!!!! <---- You Are Here
2. I'm a libertarian, ENB loves me.
3. Let me put this strawman up so I can fight it.
4. Oops, sorry, I moved the goalpost while you weren't looking.
5. See that shiny thing over there?
6. No, that real thing you're talking about never happened.
(Feel free to steal this)
Well done fleshing that out ITL.
My thought was to save time when responding to Dee, we just post the respective number(s). Such as:
1 with a dash of 4 and 6.
Epstein didnt kill himself.
I think Horshack was involved.
"Ooh! Ooh! Ooh!"
😉
So 10 YO boys should marry girls 12 or older.
Hey... I didn't make up the LGBTQIMAP+ label, they did. So now that I run with it... I'm a big phobe now?
Something about how queers get their e-mail?
I never understood why the Q got added to GLBT or LGBT. How do they define "queer" in a way that doesn't subsume most or all of the other categories?
Suss out why 'gay' and 'lesbian' are separate classes.
FYI, the continuous adding of 'category' letters to the rainbow class flows right back to social justice scholarship from people like Paolo Freire who essentially said that the work is never done. That you are to continuously search for new classes, subclasses and sub-sub-sub classes of oppressed people, and continuously address marginalization.
None of this is an accident, it's by design.
Until 30-40 years ago, "gay" meant specifically male homosexual. Then lesbians started applying the term to include themselves. But they already had the word "homosexual" to cover both. Is a new word needed for specifically male homosexuals, so they can have an exclusive word again? Faggot?
Uh, no, not unless Gay males are bundles of burning sticks.
In that case, those doing the burning need to be called Imprisoned, Exiled, or Dead.
How about we call Human Beings Human Beings, regardless of sexual orientation?
Why, you’re making it sound like Mao’s fetish for permanent class warfare! What’s next, some form of Struggle Session?
Those "Struggle Sessions" have nothing to do with bondage, wrestling or frottage, so definitely not for me! 🙂
I never understood why the Q got added to GLBT or LGBT. How do they define “queer” in a way that doesn’t subsume most or all of the other categories?
To answer this specific question, I have that answer:
Queer is the militant identity for people who don't conform to normative standards set forth by society. If you follow social justice scholarship, "queer" is a label that was used by social justice academics to 'disrupt' stable categories of... anything that held up the systems of patriarchal capitalism, the nuclear family, the nation state and any other identified institution that was seen as standing in the way of pan-societal equity.
As Mr Foucault wrote, the definition of queer should be that which resists all norms and social expectations. Ie, bring awareness to ways of being and ways of living and to 'normalize' those modes of living and being. So there literally is no concept of going "too far" with any of this. Normalizing pedophilia is part of the "queering" of the discourse.
The only thing that should alarm us, is the speed and ferocity at which this crypto-Marxist academic babble made its way into your HR department.
But they're not using "queer" that way! See what happens if people who are strange or odd in only non-sexual ways try to get onto that merry-go-round as "queers". They'll be pounced on as illegitimately appropriating a term that the sexual queers stole fair and square.
Funny thing about this, though:
In reality, Homosexuality was held by Communists to be the product of "Bourgeois Decadence" and something that would go away when society was full-bore Communist.
Being Homosexual in Moscow, Beijing, Havana, and elsewhere in the Communist world got you sent to the psychiatric gulag. Red China didn't declassify Homosexuality as a mental illness until 2001 and now, that's trying to make a comeback.
If you really want the dry, academic deep dive into this stuff which does a very good job of avoiding "Roy Moore" style culture war asides, I'd strongly recommend a book called "Cynical Theories" by Helen Pluckrose.
It's very well researched and... a bit dry because she reads directly, long passages from the academic literature. And you get a very clear roadmap as to where these terms came from, when they first appeared in the lexicon, which theorist proposed the terms etc., and what, exactly the theorist meant when the term of art was created.
Because the book does such a good job on the academic side, and avoids the (roy moore) culture war aspect, I found that my reaction to the material wasn't so much to get angry or annoyed, but to simply be enlightened by where this stuff came from. And... to some degree even, at some core level, somewhat sympathetic to the original authors.
The idiots on twitter and in the LibsofTikTok videos are really the unwitting pawns and foot-soldiers of something much bigger than they themselves understand. They're the Red Guard, waving their little red books and shouting. And even a good portion of them have no idea what it is exactly that they're pushing, except that "it must be pushed".
For instance, the twitter user with a Ukraine flag, a rainbow flag and a bio statement that says "Queer AF" probably has no fucking clue what they're talking about. They're just useful idiots.
Correct.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1614130220470079489?t=ceB9V-9EHBVXasen6FnrWg&s=19
Cynical Theories has been translated into Lithuanian, and the cover is metal af.
[Pic]
Again, "Queer" is a political term. Explicitly marxist. It means destruction of norms.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1614319579328544768?t=Gej0_LAIyIBzDPrFSKSvCQ&s=19
Instruction in constructivist "gender ideology" and Queer Theory is religious instruction and violates the First Amendment in a variety of ways when done by the state or in pursuit of objectives recommended by the state in the United States.
Who knew Jesse Helms was one of the good guys?
"City by city, the group was kicked out of pride events; eventually it was essentially exiled from the movement. The point of no return was probably the day Sen. Jesse Helms (R–N.C.) discovered that NAMBLA was affiliated with the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA), which had recently received consultative status at the United Nations. He promptly introduced, and the Senate unanimously endorsed, an amendment to deny the U.N. any funds until the president could certify that none of its branches or affiliates "grants any official status, accreditation, or recognition to any organization which promotes, condones, or seeks the legalization of pedophilia."
"The U.N. promptly expelled the ILGA, which in turn expelled NAMBLA and similar groups. The ILGA had already encouraged them to exit in 1990, by passing a resolution condemning pedophilia, but actively kicking them out required an 80 percent vote to expel. Helms' bill ensured they had the votes.
"There was no turning back after that"
“There was no turning back after that”
And yet we have.
This talk about "grooming" people to have certain sexual identities is basically the same as talk about "radicalizing" people to have certain political or religious identities. Either way, it's about denying people the agency to make, and the responsibility for making, their own decisions. And that should worry us a lot, because belief in such agency lies at the foundation of our democratic system.
That belief is based on Enlightenment ideas about human nature. But incompatible ideas, which see people's choices and actions as being simply the results of the environment they were exposed to, are being promoted from many sides today, not least by the expanding "mental health" establishment. Freedom cannot survive a widespread belief that people aren't really the ones responsible for the choices they make.
But society has long and rightly acknowledged that children do not have the capacity to be held fully "responsible for the choices they make." Freedom is not threatened by continuing to recognize that reality.
Stop molesting little kids, Dan.
Yes, definitely! But ironically missing a key point: that the changes in society along those lines has diminished the need for marriages, period!
There are still reasons for people to join, but trying to shoehorn all such relationships legally into marriage and its attendant family law has been a big mistake. If you're certain you're not going to make babies, you should not adopt, and not expect society at large to recognize, a form of relationship that in the modern world was needed because kids.
Would you declare my Aunt's two marriages invalid just because neither resulted in children?
I can see a May/December wedding where both parties want children, May wants financial security, and December wants someone to be there to help if December develops major medical issues.
I see nothing gross about that.
I see a lot gross with regarding fellow humans, especially children, as mere resources to be used.
Children helping parents is wonderful, but all adults should prepare for redundancies in health care and not treat children as a crutch.
Sigh. Remember when activists told us that black people, gay people, womyn people, and all other category people just wanted to be treated like everyone else? I guess since we essentially achieved that, activists have to escalate. Or maybe they were lying.
They were lying.
Communists lie.
It's fundamental.
Yes, more thinkable, [Arte Johnson voice] but dumb![/Arte Johnson] Coloring outside the lines should've led to erasure of the lines, not to renaming of the colors.
I guess this is the Era of Fluids. People want to be gender fluid, age fluid, responsibility fluid, time fluid, work fluid, and logic fluid.
Coloring outside the lines should’ve led to erasure of the lines, not to renaming of the colors.
You're kind of on fire today, I have to give you that.
Great article, especially fun to quote from, and lots of research and orderly, easy-to-follow presentation as usual by Mr. Walker.
And no Trump.
Double.
Redouble!
I've never seen a Reason article trashed so bad in the comments. It's a massacre.
Really? You weren’t here for the guy who claimed race was invented in Virginia. That one was legendary. You should even check out Sullum’s article from yesterday.
Pretty much Sullum's whole catalog for the last 6 years except the vape stuff.
The ones promoting sexual abuse of children are rightly panned.
I wonder if anyone read any of it. I sure didn't. Too long. Don't care.
With you on not caring enough.
Oh, good. Two of our libertinians showed up.
Whatever. I’m fairly conservative in my personal and family life. Just see the wisdom in not trying to run other peoples’ lives, so I’m a libertarian.
So much wrong w this statement. Of that was your stance you wouldn't rush to defend the left every thread.
I view this statement as teenage boys identifying as girls and white women in the pacific northwest identifying as being black. In all cases, delusion is involved.
Nobody is shocked you didn't read something.
I know, right? Jesse Walker presents a thoroughly research article, and those trashing it in the comments don't like it because it contradicts their right-wing narrative that they are fed from the sloppy fearmongering half-truth bullshit from right-wing media sources.
Jesse Walker: Here is a 5,000-word article on the history of marriage, civil rights of sexual minorities, the politics associated with pedophilia and sex with children, and it doesn't support the right-wing contention that there is an epidemic of "grooming" in the nation
JesseAZ: You're a hack! Here's my one anecdote posted from Fox News which PROVES YOU'RE WRONG! *mic drop*
On the one hand, LGBTQIMAP+, on the other hand, Roy Moore.
So you support grooming, and by default, you also support Buttplug and his posting of child porn that got him banned a few years ago?
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1614311963764424709?t=iYjwU4IXlnDjHHyyl1cwsA&s=19
Probably unionized teachers, tbh.
And hear me out. We know Communists infiltrated the Catholic Church as early as the 1930s. How many accused priests and bishops were actually Catholic? We have to wonder.
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I've long believed that most high-ranking Catholic clerics are atheists.
i think that goes for the top leaders of any major religion
When did Ireland start?
I got news for you: Small-'c' Communism has always been a part of Christianity.
Jesus and his Merry Band of Disciples both preached and practiced "Consider the lillies and beasts of the field" and "Take ye no thought for tomorrow, what ye shall eat and what ye shall drink." And The Sermon On The Mount and The Parables were filled with screeds against wealth and achievement and those who earned them.
You are mistaken. Jesus advocated for personal charity, not to give the Romans tax money just to get distributed equally to its citizens.
The parable of the talents is actually quite capitalistic and meritocratic. You should give it a read. In fact, allow me to share it with you here:
“For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.
After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” – Matthew 25:14-30
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1614333298242719745?t=dhsl_EgSDI1L3L-XHGvOrA&s=19
“It's Not Too Late To Make Wednesday Addams Queer” … can we enjoy a series without thinking about the sexuality of characters?
[Link]
It's not about the grooming and the sex perversion, it's about getting between kids and parents. Any means necessary and this round just happens to be utilizing grooming.
Interesting, I hadn't thought of that: sex as wedge. I don't think it likely, but can't dismiss it entirely.
I've bought and read and so appreciate two of Jesse's books (Rebels on the Air, the conspiracy one), and this article has a lot of fascinating history ... but only as far as it goes. As so many comments have noted, it completely ignores what has been going on for the last few years.
About the only defense I can think of is that the increased attention to groomers might simply be increased attention, not increased instances. But that doesn't apply to gender mutilation surgery; no way hospitals could have been doing that 20 years ago, maybe not even 10 years ago. And drag queen reading hours where kindergartners stuff dollar bills into drag queen's underwear? That was never a thing before, it's not just increased attention, it really is brand new.
Both are part and parcel of wokism. Jesse never mentioned wokism once, which is a huge huge part of current pedophilephilia (I coined a new word!).
This article would have been fine if it had finished with a discussion of wokism and its gender fluidentity bullcrap. Without that, it may as well have been written as a summary of 20th century mores. It is irrelevant to current grooming.
no way hospitals could have been doing that 20 years ago, maybe not even 10 years ago.
Yes they were. The first standard of care for gender reassignment surgery on teenagers was published in 1998.
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/526721
Nice link. Did you read it?
The time spent under pubertal suppression would be used to further explore gender identity prior to committing to either estrogen or testosterone and their physical effects. This intervention with a GnRHa would also be somewhat of a diagnostic aid in that if it eased the distress; it was reasonable to correlate the distress with gender dysphoria as a primary cause. This was followed by hormone therapy around age of 16 years and then gender-affirming genital surgery at 18 years or later [45, 46, 48].
18 years old was a hard cut-off, they wouldn't perform surgery at under 18, not even in the Netherlands, where this was first being discussed.
Then along comes the University of California and the Endocrine Society in 2016 suddenly saying that they absolutely should start performing surgery on people under age 18. Keep in mind you're replying to someone who wasn't talking about hormone therapy or Gender Affirming care, he specifically talked about hospitals providing genital-mutilation surgery. Nobody was doing that on under-18 year olds, it wasn't even being talked about until 2016.
Thanks for having the patience to fisk him. I seldom do, since I am so used to him being wrong, but it's good to have it on the record so casual readers aren't misled into thinking he's a deep thinker.
Here is the WPATH Standard of Care version 7. It was published in 2012.
https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC%20v7/SOC%20V7_English.pdf
It permits 'top surgery' for individuals below the legal age of majority.
sexual mutilation of confused kids. They used to be "freaks" in the 70/80s, then goth, then emo..now your in the wrong sexual body and should be mutilated. Thank you "social scientists"...this is just cultural marxism. Look at al the names quoted in the article..look them up..classic cultural marxists...degenerates the lot of them.
Genital surgery should not be carried out until (i) patients reach the legal age of majority in a given country, and (ii) patients have lived continuously for at least 12 months in the gender role that is congruent with their gender identity. The age threshold should be seen as a minimum criterion and not an indication in and of itself for active intervention.
Genital surgery requires the age of majority, and even then, it's a minimum age and not something to embark upon immediately. From your own source. And even then, it's ten years ago when they're trying to normalize top surgery for adolescents, which came with significant pushback.
At this point, what are you really even arguing about, anyway? The idea that this whole phenomena is extremely recent is hardly in dispute.
From the very next paragraph after the one that you cited:
Chest surgery in FtM patients could be carried out earlier, preferably after ample time of living in
the desired gender role and after one year of testosterone treatment. The intent of this suggested
sequence is to give adolescents sufficient opportunity to experience and socially adjust in a more
masculine gender role, before undergoing irreversible surgery. However, different approaches may
be more suitable, depending on an adolescent’s specific clinical situation and goals for gender
identity expression.
I'm saying it is not as recent as critics are trying to claim it is.
And even then, it’s ten years ago when they’re trying to normalize top surgery for adolescents, which came with significant pushback.
Oh, that's all! Well! What a relief!
We know the first 'standard of care' was produced in 1998. This stuff has been in the pipeline since some babbling academic no one was paying attention to was pushing for it in the 1980s, maybe as far back as the 1970s.
"Oh, those kids, ignore what they hear from their professors, they'll all grow up and get a job and join the rest of us."
Children, he tweeted in 2022, "can be groomed into a sexual identity, groomed into an ideological system, and, in some cases, yes, groomed for abuse."
So if this is what Chris Rufo means by the term "grooming", then literally every teacher and every parent everywhere is a "groomer" by this standard.
Parents take their kids hunting and show them how to properly use rifles? That's grooming!
Parents take their kids to church? That's grooming!
Teachers teach kids about science? That's grooming!
It is an absurd definition that is purposefully defined to be overbroad SO THAT Chris Rufo can shoe-horn every objectionable behavior he doesn't like into that term.
Which is the *exact same thing* he did with the term "Critical Race Theory". He redefined the term to mean everything that any teacher teaches to kids about race that makes right-wingers upset, whether or not it has any plausible basis in the actual academic discipline of "critical race theory".
And why would Chris Rufo, and his enablers, do things like that? Because they cannot argue against what is happening on its own merits, with rational argument. They HAVE to appeal to fear and demagoguery. They cannot argue against why teachers shouldn't be teaching tolerance of LGBTQ+ individuals in the classroom without coming across as horrible bigots. So they have to appeal to fear and claim that teachers are actually GROOMERS trying to harm kids.
They're using kids to justify their bigoted agenda, which is taking a page from the Team Blue playbook, when they use kids to justify their redistributionist agenda.
Team Blue: If you don't support our redistributionist schemes, kids will die of hunger and disease!
Team Red: If you don't support our bigoted anti-gay schemes, kids will die at the hands of pedophile groomers!
Do your eyeballs
cherry pickgroom what you see, does your braincherry pickgroom what it understands, or do youcherry pickgroom what you comment on?Huh. Still sounds stupid.
You shouldn't ignore that the left is also using kids for their agenda when it comes to reassignment surgery. We HAVE to give people access to gender transition surgery or else they're going to die. They'll throw the suicide rates at you but fail to look at how suicide rates exist post-transitioning. You HAVE to embrace gender reaffirming care or children will die!
So it's not a 1 for 1 trade-off.
Also, communism and wealth redistribution absolutely does kill people, let's not kid ourselves.
There is no such thing as a trans kid. Trans is a mental illness not a sexual preference. Evolution decides your sex. You can no more choice your sex than you can decide you are ten feet tall or have 20/20 vision if you are nearsighted. Denial of reality is a clear sign someone needs mental help.
I see. So "cynically using kids for a political agenda" is okay when Team Red does it but it's horrible when Team Blue does it. Got it.
We HAVE to give people access to gender transition surgery or else they’re going to die.
For some of the kids, that is actually a true statement though.
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/129/3/418/31724/Children-and-Adolescents-With-Gender-Identity
Of the kids referred to this center, about 10% had attempted suicide prior. And those are the ones who were unsuccessful. Of course we don't know how many were successful.
Note that this article was published in 2012, before the current "craze" of transgender identification.
Now, will some people exaggerate that 10% figure? Probably. But the risk is still there.
So if gender reassignment surgery on kids is completely banned, there are going to be *some* kids who will commit suicide because they will be denied legal access to a medical procedure that could save their lives.
And, you are also correct, that for *some* kids, they will get gender reassignment surgery that will prove to be a mistake, and they might wind up later in life harming or killing themselves. That is also true, sadly.
There is no single solution that is best for all kids everywhere. So IMO the standard libertarian solution to this dilemma, is the same standard libertarian solution to EVERY dilemma in which there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution: let the individuals decide what is best for them. In this case, let parents and children and doctors and therapists and counselors decide what they think is best. The government should not ban gender reassignment surgery, and the government shouldn't directly subsidize it either. Simply leave it alone as a legal medical procedure, along with many other legal medical procedures that parents and kids have to tragically work through that may wind up having long-term consequences.
Why can't we do that?
For some of the kids, that is actually a true statement though.
So you're evidence that the politicization of kids unambiguously works.
I cited an article that unambiguously showed that about 10% of the kids referred to treatment at this Gender Management Center in Boston had attempted suicide before referral. That is an empirical fact, not the bloviating of some demagogic politician.
The demagogues will exaggerate that 10% figure and try to claim that the risk of suicide is much higher than it really is.
And the demagogues on the OTHER side will exaggerate the cases of individuals unhappy with their gender reassignment surgery who go on to commit self-harm.
The exaggerations are false, but the empirical facts remain.
Again there is no one-size-fits-all solution to any of this. If the government banned gender reassignment surgery on kids, there will be a certain number of them that will be harmed as a result. And if the government were to actively promote gender reassignment surgery on kids, there would also be a certain number of them that would be harmed as a result later on in life when they wind up regretting it, who wouldn't have obtained the surgery had it not been promoted.
There is going to be harm either way. The 'least bad' solution here is simply to let parents and kids and doctors and therapists and counselors work it all out themselves. They are the ones best equipped to understand their own particular situation, let them struggle through their own tough choices without the government putting their thumb on the scale one way or another. Why can't we do that?
Sorry, what you're missing isn't the risk of suicide that exists. That's pretty well documented.
What's a bit more sketchy is that gender reassignment surgery or gender affirming care is an effective treatment or significantly reduces suicide risk. And this fear that a student may be trans and therefore may attempt suicide before they ever have suicidal ideation leads to panicked decisions about the need to rush to treatment, even when the treatment's effects are not well documented. There's a ton of evidence of suicides after gender reassignment surgery, but there's limited will in doing an extensive study to actually examine its effects.
You're pointing to the fact that kids are dying, therefore we must "do something" without examining whether what is being done makes any sense, or whether the need to aggressive act in a prophylactic manner might be doing greater harm. So yes, it seems that using "do it for the children" has effectively worked as a political tool to persuade you.
You’re pointing to the fact that kids are dying, therefore we must “do something”
I am not saying *WE* must do *anything*. I am saying let the parents, kids, doctors, therapists, and counselors make the best decision that they can given the specifics associated with each kid's unique situation. Sound good to you?
without examining whether what is being done makes any sense, or whether the need to aggressive act in a prophylactic manner might be doing greater harm.
Let the parents, kids, doctors, counselors and therapists be the ones to assess those risks and harms for an individual child's unique circumstances.
What’s a bit more sketchy is that gender reassignment surgery or gender affirming care is an effective treatment or significantly reduces suicide risk.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/
They DID NOT die from not getting the surgery. They died by committing suicide because they didn't get what they wanted. The surgery was not necessary. Waiting a few days until they found a new fad, or counseling, those would have done more good than genital mutilation surgery.
They DID NOT die from not getting the surgery. They died by committing suicide because they didn’t get what they wanted
That's underselling what's going on. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness strongly correlated with depression. A lot of trans people have depression and attempt suicide because it's a mental health issue. Trans activists would have you believe that it's because they're so stigmatized that they can't find acceptance and are driven to suicide, but it's more likely that the depression and the gender dysphoria have a common cause.
What happens is that instead of looking to treat the mental illness, health professionals are instead looking to validate those feelings by saying they'll feel better when they're accepted as their identified gender. The first problem is that their actual biology is still genetic, coming from their birth gender, and you can't simply change it with hormones and surgeries. The second problem is that they're not getting proper treatment for the depression and being sold a false hope. Moreover, people who already struggling with depression probably aren't helped by people trying to mess with their hormones.
This is an actual problem, but activists have latched onto their favored solution and are pushing it as an agenda. They're trying to shut down any discussion of alternatives, and try to censor or shut down any research into post-transition rates of suicide or suicidal ideation. They insist trans regret is vanishingly rare but there's almost no way to conduct a proper study of it without being shouted down.
I don't claim to know their specific, unique circumstances. It is the height of arrogance for you to be dictating to them what they *really* do or don't want or need.
Some people take hostages and swear to die before turning them loose.
Some people become dictators and die if they don't get their way.
Some kids think they will die if they can't get a Superman costume for Halloween or a Barbie doll for their birthday. None of them actually do.
And suicide for not getting their Superman costume or Barbie doll is just as dead as suicide for not getting genital mutilation surgery, and just as unnecessary. To claim "they (passively) died" because they couldn't get the surgery is as honest as saying "they (passively) died" because they didn't get their Superman costume or Barbie doll.
It's dishonest, and that's all you are for pushing that passive language so passively -- dishonest as fuck.
Wow, so you are not only a mindreader, you are also clairvoyant!
Evidently, you can read the minds of the dead to discern what their "real motivation" was for killing themselves.
They cannot argue against why teachers shouldn’t be teaching tolerance of LGBTQ+ individuals in the classroom
How about because they don't teach morality in schools?
Or are qualified, or have the authority to usurp parents (who I'll remind you have VERY WIDE latitude there)?
How about because they don’t teach morality in schools?
But they do.
And this is Team Red we're talking about here, who continually complain that "Christian values" aren't being taught in school anymore.
So they don't object to the teaching of morality in schools in principle. They object to THIS type of morality, of treating LGBTQ+ individuals as morally equal to heterosexual individuals. And they can't come out and say that directly because it makes them look like horrible bigots. So instead they do what Chris Rufo is doing, stretching the definition of "grooming" so wide so that it encompasses the behavior they object to, and then claim "we are objecting to what the teachers are doing not because we are bigots, but because we are just trying to keep our kids safe from 'grooming' (which we conveniently redefined to include our bigoted preferences)."
But they do.
Evidence please, this is a major violation of the establishment clause, please don't withhold any pertinent information.
Gee I don't know, every time a kid is punished for hurting another kid, that is a moral lesson.
The Establishment Clause does not ban teaching morality, it bans religious-based public instruction. They are different.
Gee I don’t know, every time a kid is punished for hurting another kid, that is a moral lesson.
Spot the childless.
A religion, by court precedent, is any strongly held moral conviction.
Ya. They are definitely sure that people who believe in Jesus / Muhhamad / whatever the fuck are believing in religious magical ideas but somehow the idea that a boy is a girl because he says so today is less sus and totally grounded thinking.
“For with God nothing shall be impossible.” – Luke 1:37
A belief in an omnipotent God makes those “magical ideas” not a stretch for practicing Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. as they believe in concepts that are beyond the natural world we live in.
The LGBT+ movement in general tends to be hostile to religion, especially Christianity, and thus aren’t afforded that proposition. It makes their belief in transgenderism all the more absurd.
"And this is Team Red we’re talking about here, who continually complain that “Christian values” aren’t being taught in school anymore."
This is an outdated strawman. Im sure you would describe me on team red. All of the people I know that are pissed about this stuff are non-religious. Im sure the Christians are extra pissed, but I dont hear it from them.
The fact that you folks on the left have to square is you arent fighting the christians. You are fighting a coalition of christians, muslims, jews, and a whole bunch of agnostics that want to teach their kids about their moral structure and dont want a mentally ill govt employed 20 something teaching their kid the latest academia inspired, mind numbing, activist drivel.
The battle used to be Christians who wanted their religion taught against many others that didnt believe in Christianity. Your people are the religious ones now. Your people are the ones forcing your BS on kids, and its the coalition above that are saying "just STFU and leave my kid alone, Ill teach them morals, you just teach them math"
Your argument is quite a few decades old
Stop the presses! Jimbo's anecdote proves that the right wing isn't full of Christians!
"Your people are the ones forcing your BS on kids, "
Yes, "you people" are teaching kids to be tolerant and accepting of others who happen to be different than themselves, to the great consternation of many parents who think that teachers should teach kids to be bigoted assholes like themselves. How dare those teachers refuse to denounce gays as perverts and pedophiles. They must be groomers.
No, these teachers have made their own sexuality the center of their lives and are trying to pass on that philosophy to children. We've seen tons of cases where this has happened. This isn't about being "tolerant and accepting of others", this is about indoctrinating children on false concepts.
If parents want to teach their children to be "bigoted assholes like themselves" (whatever that is), then that's their right. If they want to teach Marxist philosophy to their children instead of religious beliefs, than that's their choice. That's not up to teachers. The government-run schools should not do any of that, they should be teaching concepts like reading, writing and arithmetic instead. Test scores show how badly they've failed in this regard.
No, these teachers have made their own sexuality the center of their lives
Like the teachers who show up to work pregnant? Every day when they show up to work with a huge baby bump, are they making their heterosexuality the "center of their lives" by parading it around in front of kids? Hmm?
If parents want to teach their children to be “bigoted assholes like themselves” (whatever that is), then that’s their right. If they want to teach Marxist philosophy to their children instead of religious beliefs, than that’s their choice.
Sure, but they have no right to force the schools to conform to their bigoted desires. Bigots can refuse to associate with the targets of their bigotry. Schools are open to all and ought to welcome all on the same footing.
Your problem is that your team has never gotten away from the idea that sexual orientation is about sexual intercourse. That a discussion about being gay necessarily means a discussion about butt sex. That telling kids "it's okay to be gay" is no different than teaching kids "here's how gay people have sex". That is your hangup.
And there is nothing that I or anyone else can do to try to convince you otherwise.
That’s the truth though. Sexual identity ultimately leads to the type of sexual intercourse that person desires.
If an adult wants to do that, then that’s his choice. Children do not need and should not be taught a concept that makes sexuality a central part of their lives, especially by government-run school teachers.
Sexual identity ultimately leads to the type of sexual intercourse that person desires.
NO. Sexual identity is about WHO YOU LOVE, not about HOW YOU FUCK.
Please get to a psychiatrist and show him this thread. You need help.
Children do not need and should not be taught a concept that makes sexuality a central part of their lives
But sexual identity is a central part of EVERYONE'S life. We can't escape it. You're asking schools to ignore a major part of human development and personal identity. But staying silent on the topic doesn't really make the problem go away though. Instead it just reinforces the social status quo, which is that heterosexuality is the normative default.
It becomes a part of one's life after puberty, not before, Jeffy. Before, sexuality really doesn't mean much of anything, nor should it at that point. Prepubescent children do not normally have sexual feelings in any way, shape, or form.
He doesn't want to accept that because of his need to be sexually desired by children.
And, ONCE AGAIN. Sexual identity is not about fucking. It is about who you love. Even young kids understand ideas about love, "having crushes", seeing people kissing in public and asking questions about it. And there is nothing wrong per se with having an AGE-APPROPRIATE discussion about sexual identity with kids. AGE APPROPRIATE of course means you don't talk about fucking. But you CAN talk about broad concepts of different people falling in love with each other.
And besides, considering the Chuck Lorre shows on prime time TV which are considered a normal part of popular culture, kids can show up to class asking questions like "what does 'booty call' mean?" or "what does 'coitus' mean? I heard it on TV last night". Maybe teachers should have a reasonable and age-appropriate answer to those questions.
And he doubles down on saying that sexuality is not about sex. He needs professional help. We're not going to penetrate that level of delusion with a few comments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_identity
That's because you're full of shit, and those "ideas" you mention are not anyone's "hangup"; they are WHAT IS BEING DONE.
Find me the example of the first grade teacher teaching kids about butt sex. I'll wait.
That doesn't happen. What does sometimes happen, is that a first grade teacher will talk about sexual identity in terms that doesn't reinforce heterosexuality as the normative default. And then the right-wing demagogues will spin this discussion into "OMG the teacher is pushing butt sex onto little kids!!!" Because what I said above is absolutely true - when it comes to the LGBTQ crowd, you all cannot separate sexual identity from sexual intercourse.
How's masturbation suit you, Jeffy?
https://www.libsoftiktok.com/p/kindergarteners-sent-home-with-masturbation
Four-year-olds at an Alert Bay, British Columbia school were reportedly given this homework assignment on touching their private body parts. The worksheet asks students to draw pictures of places in their home where they can masturbate privately.
Don't confuse him with the facts.
That assignment was an ANTI CHILD ABUSE assignment, not one promoting masturbation to four-year-olds.
https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2022/05/investigation-launched-after-island-kindergarten-students-assigned-masturbation-worksheet/
Libs Of TikTok is lying to you. She is lying by omission when she only presents this worksheet, without any context or background information. She is counting on you to ‘fill in the blanks’ with your own worst fears of what this assignment is “really” about.
Want to try again? Still waiting for that teacher teaching first graders about butt sex.
It has no business being taught by a teacher in a school.
An anti-child-abuse lesson should not be taught in school?
What are you, a groomer?
Again, where is the story about the teacher teaching first graders about butt sex?
That’s rich, Jeffy. Somehow you missed the point that she’s talking masturbation to kindergartners. If that doesn’t sound wrong to you, then what the fuck are you smoking?
Oh no no no. First, you have to do two things.
First, I want you to admit that this lesson was not about teaching four-year-olds to masturbate, it was about helping kids avoid being the victims of child abuse.
Second, I want you to admit that Libs of Tik Tok lied to you when she declined to include any of this background information, and instead by omitting key facts, deliberately created a false impression that some crazy woke teacher was teaching four-year-olds how to masturbate.
Once you make these two admissions, I’ll be happy to discuss whether the tactics of this lesson were appropriate or not.
You do not try to prevent abuse by having teachers promote the idea that kindergarteners touching themselves is okay. That itself is abuse, and there are better ways for children to protect themselves and prevent abuse from happening.
The sheet shared proves that Libs of TikTok is telling the truth. What is there to admit? What Isham did was wrong. If you think that trying to prevent abuse by having children touch themselves is okay, then you're simply delusional.
It was a lie by omission, by refusing to point out that the entire lesson was about preventing child abuse, not about teaching kids how to masturbate. She didn't mention that, did she?
From the assignment itself:
“All families have different rules about masturbation (touching your own private parts). Talk to your family grown-ups about your family rules.”
See that? The assignment tells the kids to talk to their parents about what the correct family rules are.
4 year olds should not have worksheets about masturbation, regardless of the context you psychopath. Opinion completely discarded, you sound like a pedo.
You can virtually guarantee that for every Libs of Tik Tok video that goes viral on right-wing social media, there is a backstory and context for the story that is *deliberately omitted* that makes the video seem not nearly as bad as presented.
In this case, she took an assignment which was about *stopping child abuse*, and twisted it into some devious perverted scheme about schools *promoting masturbation to four-year-olds*.
And we can guarantee that you will obfuscate and move the goalposts constantly, Jeffy.
A mess of an article. the issue at hand is pedo advocacy groups and the educational complex attempting to sexually mutilate and chemically poison children to increase a degenerate group with powerful political power and provide children who never reach puberty for sexual gratification.
There is NO reason for govt schools to have trans theorists/
teachers pushing "gender dysphoria.' These teachers (most of them obese woman or men who can't get a date and have first decided they are lesbians or gay but that didn't give them the attention they want so they now decide they are the opposite sex.
For the final time..evolution determines your gender. You can deny it by dressing or even getting imitation surgery but leave the kids alone you. The LBG community would be wise to distance itself from the trannies movement asap.
OK, groomer
Like most Reason articles, this one cuts the Republican party way too much slack. Roy Moore might have lost the general election, but it was by a slim margin. Plus, he did win the primary. There have also been tons of molestation scandals in the priesthoods of various conservative religious denominations. Progressives and Democrats might have expelled all traces of pedophilia since the Seventies, but it’s clear that conservatives and Republicans still have a major problem with it in their ranks.
That’s probably why they are leaning so hard into this “groomer” panic, they are projecting their own perversions onto their opponents while simultaneously trying to deflect attention away from themselves. It also explains why they get so apoplectic whenever there are any legal or social changes that threaten to erode the power of the traditional family. They’re scared that if their kids are no longer perfectly obedient to their parents, they might start talking to the police about what’s been done to them.
I know that Reason’s comment section is full of conservative snowflakes who throw whiny tantrums whenever it’s critical of Republicans in any way, and accuse it of being shills for the Democrats. But if Reason is committed to being objective it will naturally end up making Republicans look worse, because right now Republicans are objectively worse for liberty, and worse for the country in general. This wasn’t always the case, as recently as a decade ago the Democrats were worse, but it’s the case in the present moment. Reason shouldn’t be afraid to come out and say so.
What's gotten worse about Republicans, or better about Democrats, in the past decade? Seems to me the Democrats have continued their slide into the dump by eliminating moderates, while Republicans have shown at least some substantial revolt against the establishment who still hold too much sway in it.
The modern Republican Party has rejected reason as an organizing principle for their campaigns. Instead it is all about conservative politicians spinning the Wheel Of Outrage to generate the latest moral panic to drive their voters into paroxysms of outrage.
One day, it's "Watch Out For The Massive Invasion of Migrant Caravans!!"
The next, it's "Watch Out For Those Transgender Drag Queens Sexualizing Children!!"
The next, it's "Watch Out For Woke Teachers Indoctrinating and Grooming Kids!!"
The next, it's "Watch Out For The Communist Chinese Deploying a Virus To Destroy America!!"
The next, it's "Watch Out For Davos Globalists Forcing You To Eat Bugs and Live in Caves!!"
The next, it's "Watch Out for Coastal Elites Sneering at You and Belittling You!!"
We saw this on display with the Speaker election. Why did it take 15 ballots for the Republicans to elect a Speaker? Because THEY HAD NO AGENDA from the outset. They never agreed on what they affirmatively wanted, so they couldn't agree on who should be their leader to lead them on a non-existent agenda. Because they are no longer a party of ideas and policies. They are a coalition of demagogues held together by outrage and grievance and victimhood.
Add another notch to the Wheel of Outrage: M&M's!
https://www.avclub.com/m-ms-tucker-carlson-fox-news-outnumbered-ben-shapiro-1849985704
So not marching in lock step is a bad thing by you?
As to that list of outrages, well, they're true. How is that a problem?
I think an organized party ought to have some semblance of an agenda that the elected members of that party sign on to. Team Red doesn't have that.
As to that list of outrages, well, they’re true. How is that a problem?
ALL THEY DO is drum up outrage. Stoke fear and outrage.
Why did it take 15 ballots for the Republicans to elect a Speaker?
Actual OMEGALUL.
In all but the last few votes, the overwhelming number of elected reps voted for McCarthy. They had an agenda, and those dissenters forced concessions.
You really do love in total ignorance.
What was the platform that Republicans ran on in 2022?
Who gives a fuck?
You used the god-damn selection of the speaker as a piss-poor example of disorganiztion.
Now you have to move on from that because the rest of us remember how many voted for McCarthy the first dozen times.
Take the L.
Who gives a fuck?
Really? Because you wrote earlier:
They had an agenda
So, what was the agenda then?
You're getting to be as bad as Jesse and ML around here with your gaslighting.
So, what was the agenda then?
The same as it was since Bush left office: do nothing that the voters want.
For fuck sakes, why do think the leadership still hates the Tea Party?
Because they got along?
Wake the fuck up.
On the contrary, the biggest advocates of pedophilia have mainly come from the left. Saying “b-b-but Republicans and religious conservatives!!1!1” isn’t going to work when the same problem you've charged them for has been happening in public schools, Hollywood, government programs and other institutions that involve children but are ran by adults, and many of those institutions are mainly run by liberals/Democrats. You and the media have been singling out the Catholic Church, but this kind of abuse has been happening in plenty of organizations where adults are given power over children.
You are not speaking the truth. The Democrats have a larger problem in that they, unlike Republicans, have an actual faction (albeit small) who support pedophilic filth. Repent of your wickedness.
So let's talk about "sexualizing of children" for a moment.
Imagine that a major media company produced a sitcom which had as the premise two single 30-something brothers as bachelors and roommates. One is straight and divorced, and the other is gay, and they are together raising the straight brother's 10-year-old son.
The gay brother is a hedonist, and continually bringing home one-night-stands to the house, so there is a continual parade of his lovers that the kid meets.
In one episode, the gay brother has a frank discussion with the kid about how he can tell whether a penis is natural, or has been "medically enlarged".
In another episode, the gay brother seduces the kid's teacher, and the kid happens to walk in on the two of them having sex in the middle of the night. The plot element presented in the episode, however, is not how seeing the two having sex might traumatize the kid, but whether the kid's grades at school will suffer as a result of the relationship.
In another episode, the gay brother tries to seduce a gay ballet instructor, but he is playing hard-to-get. So he signs up the kid to take ballet lessons as an excuse to try to get closer to the instructor. But the kid winds up developing a bit of a crush on the instructor himself. And when the gay brother finally does succeed in bedding the ballet instructor, the kid winds up annoyed.
In another episode, the kid mistakenly takes Viagra, thinking it is vitamins, and then spends an unusual amount of time in the bathroom afterwards. Lots of jokes about what might be going on in there! This is also the episode where the kid's father openly explains to his son what a "booty call" is. (At this point, the kid is 12 years old.)
In another episode, the kid develops a crush on a girl at school, but the gay brother seduces the girl's father, which makes the kid upset thinking that the affair will jeopardize his relationship with the girl. Hijinks ensue when they try to seek revenge on each other.
So in case you hadn't figured it out, these are all descriptions of episodes from the show Two And A Half Men. But of course the "gay brother" was actually Charlie Sheen's straight character. These episodes were all aired about 20 years ago, all in prime time.
Were there complaints about "sexualization of children" then? Was Chuck Lorre (the producer) called a "groomer" as a result of this show? Of course not. Because EVERYONE WAS STRAIGHT, doing straight heterosexual things.
Evidently, in our society, it is perfectly acceptable for a TV show to depict a hedonistic bachelor continually bringing one-night-stands over to a house where a 10-year-old is living, as long as everyone is heterosexual. But if they're gay, then WHOA hold on there! That's grooming! That's "sexualizing children"!
That is why these complaints about "sexualizing children" are insincere. It is not about protecting kids from "sexualization" and it never was. It is about keeping kids away from normalizing LGBTQ+ identities.
Were there complaints about “sexualization of children” then?
Undoubtedly, but you won't bother looking it up.
Don't use your own ignorance of peoples preferences to lecture us on your own.
From 2012:
https://web.archive.org/web/20121127204246/http://usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2012/11/26/angus-jones-criticizes-two-and-a-half-men/1727567/
The series, one of TV's most popular shows over its run, has been criticized at times for its adult-oriented content.
I'll say it again, your ignorance is no excuse for your moral preferences.
Huh. So the child actor in the series comes out, 10 years after the series first started airing, to tell people not to watch it, while he continues to receive checks from the show.
He left the same year, but sure pretend his opinions don't matter.
Also way to ignore USA Today refuting this: Were there complaints about “sexualization of children” then?
You reject my reality and substitute your own.
You found one complaint, from an actor on the show, who left in a huff *after* collecting his big fat paycheck from the "filth" he had a direct part in creating. Forgive me for not believing that his conduct is anything other than grandstanding.
Where were the protests? Where were the condemnations of Chuck Lorre as a "groomer"? Where were the US Senators demanding that the FBI investigate the show (as Ted Cruz wanted to do for "Cuties")? Hmm?
The fact of the matter is, Two and a Half Men was considered to be an acceptable part of the cultural mainstream at the time. No teeth-gnashing about grooming or "sexualizing kids". Maybe some people turned it off in disgust. But NOTHING like the absolute batshit insane outrage over teachers now doing FAR less "sexualization of kids" than that one show alone did.
Teacher: "Kids, there's nothing wrong if two men are attracted to teach other..."
Right-wing: GROOMING! SEXUALIZING KIDS! BURN THE HERETIC!
Charlie Sheen: "Hey kid, do you know how you can tell the difference between real boobs and fake boobs?"
Right-wing: *crickets*
Where were the protests? Where were the condemnations of Chuck Lorre as a “groomer”? Where were the US Senators demanding that the FBI investigate the show (as Ted Cruz wanted to do for “Cuties”)? Hmm?
Your standard wasn't any of these, it was complaints.
I met your standard (which you ignored what I cited from USA Today, not the actor), and now you're pretending that because the Right didn't act enough for your altered complaints that they must have not cared.
You really do ignore reality and substitute your own.
That list from above could be expanded to other bad actors here. Have him blocked but it sounds like maybe a 3 & 4.
You moved goalposts and then committed an ad hominem attack on right-wing individuals. Never mind that many of them oppose making sexuality a big part of individuals' lives.
You really are delusional.
Never mind that many of them oppose making LGBTQ+ sexuality a big part of individuals’ lives.
There, fixed it for you.
Yes, Nobartium found one example of one grandstanding actor who complained about the "filth" of the show AFTER receiving a giant paycheck for creating the filth himself. Congratulations. Now let's compare this to the right-wing howls of outrage about the "Gender Queer" book. Where were the mobs storming the TV studios protesting and demanding that Two And A Half Men be canceled, like they did for the Gender Queer book? Hmm?
The problem is, I'm right and you don't want to admit it. There is a double standard on the right. Crude sexualization of kids is given much wider latitude when it's heterosexual in nature.
Nah you got caught setting an easily disprovable standard, then moved the goalposts after you were wrong.
And you refuse to admit it, because your position is based on major ignorance of what Christians and the right in general believe in.
Remember when 2&1/2 men was being played for <3rd graders in class, by activist teachers?
Ya, me neither.
Stop arguing against strawmen. The same people that dont want the LGBTQ groomer shit in schools wouldnt want their 1st grader watching the stuff you mentioned either. Stop pretending they are OK with this stuff for young kids (they arent) but just hate gay people.
You constantly show that you are one of these progs that doesnt have kids, wont have kids, but totes knows how people should raise them. It oozes from you. Just stop. You people have to leave others kids alone, its not going to be pretty
You also spend more time vigorously arguing to keep allowing grooming, so maybe some self analysis.
Your definition of "groomer", like your definition of "CRT", is cynical and politically motivated, specifically designed to encompass your bigoted beliefs without having to defend them as such.
And your own response belies your stated response:
the LGBTQ groomer shit
Why the need for the "LGBTQ" adjective in front of "groomer"? You claim to be opposed to "grooming" (based on your idiotic definition) in general, right? Your need to specify that you are specifically objecting to "LGBTQ groomer shit" tells me you are opposed to the gay part, not any supposed "grooming".
You constantly show that you are one of these progs that doesnt have kids, wont have kids, but totes knows how people should raise them.
I am not the one advocating for the state to micromanage school curricula. That is you and your team. YOU are the one trying to tell everyone else how their kids should be raised.
"Your definition of “groomer”, like your definition of “CRT”, is cynical and politically motivated"
Ironic and hypocritical coming from you, as you've been constantly redefining words and definitions here to suit your arguments for years... including "Groomer" and "Critical Race Theory".
seethe
Cope.
Lol.
Mike Laursen defense applied here^.
Your point was refuted with my first line, confirming you were just arguing against a strawman, and you go on to not address that and pick apart random shit I said without ever addressing the point:
you screed is completely invalidated because hetero christians arent playing 2 and 1/2 men for kids, while your activist buddies are definitely exposing kids to sexuality of their choosing to push their agenda.
You are getting slapped around, again, just like when you tried to argue with me (and everyone) about CRT. You dont have the facts on your side, and your ability to argue is sophomore highschool level. You lost again
Why the fuck would you let your elementary age kid watch prime time television? Especially something with Charlie Sheen in it.
Why was there no outrage? You answered the disingenuous question yourself.
So, Chemmie, can you tell me whose bright idea it was to add the child molesting plank to the 1982 LP platform after the Wallace Dixiecrat/Nixon Moral Majority landslide elected Ronald Reagan? I want names. (https://www.fortfreedom.org/b29.htm) These creeps and the preemptive-surrender anarchists are what crippled the LP by mutilating and deforming its brilliant 1972 platform.
"There was a time when a groomer was a predatory grown-up preparing to molest a kid."
Nothing has changed.
Some of the editors here voted for one of them to the highest office in the land.
You have to ask: why is The State/TPTB so determined and committed to pushing this inorganic ideology/movement?
Militant child molesters
https://twitter.com/TaylerUSA/status/1614372985086918656?t=jxdK8TTfQP4JWHR5nM9gow&s=19
Pictures from outside the All Ages Drag Show being hosted at BuzzBrews in Dallas, TX.
[Pics]
If it had been just women, that would be a militia etheridge.
LOL.
Maybe she was the one wearing her wetsuit as combat gear?
So, we've got both kiddie rape *and* using them as human shields here right?
blaming fascism on sexual repression.
The Nazis were notorious for sexual abuse of children. Hitlerjugend were routinely raped by older boys and their officers, all the way up to Ernst Röhm, who probably was responsible for the syphillis that made mush out of Hitler's brain.
-jcr
Cite?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Heines#Homosexuality
Almost the entire leadership of the Stormtroopers and a good chunk of the middle ranks were boy fuckers. So were most of the early Nazi party leadership. They were all banging the Jugendbund like nobody's business.
Hitler and Goebbels were rare birds for preferring ladies.
Hitlerjugend were routinely raped by older boys and their officers
That's what I want a cite for. Never heard that before.
Articles are pretty censored nowadays on the internet. But there's a lot of books by various historians on the subject.
For example, Stormtrooper Families: Homosexuality and Community in the Early Nazi Movement (2015) is one such source. Another would be the The Pink Swastika : Homosexuality In The Nazi Party (1995)
Wait a minute! John above just said Ernst Rõhm gave Hitler syphilis. So who’s right?
I’ll let you two wrestle over it like the Monty Python Minister with Plato.
🙂
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1614459042042155008?t=nN13jHltEbE_17_9L-3Hqg&s=19
This is real.
[Screenshot]
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1614446296135262216?t=iBZVmQHeZ3jomMS3qAVy3A&s=19
The "these people" Weird Al is talking about here are parents. The "hate" is not giving activists and religious cult groomers (and worse) their way with their kids. These cultists are on a religious mission. People need to see that.
[Screenshot]
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1614455843092676609?t=DDTKEklIB3-bZ5qh2huIpA&s=19
New studies find millions of young nonbinary and transgender Americans
[Link]
https://twitter.com/ChoooCole/status/1614322247552073729?t=tygUfWpxNiq4Ff2rfRLbcg&s=19
Adults in distress from gender dysphoria deserve to be told the truth by medical professionals. Informed consent in its current state is impossible because of doctors blatantly lying to patients. Every detransitioner I can think of feels that they were lied to at multiple stages.
Remember when he used to wade into these threads to defend against an accusation of leaving stuff out or getting something wrong? Usually he was correct. I was hoping he'd take such a busman's holiday this time and grace us with some unpaid addenda.
In this case he's not just being fact-checked. His whole premise is being savaged.
The life cycle of the conservative.
1) Wakes up, sees someone who practices culture slightly different from how the conservative was taught as a young child. Freaks out.
2) Rapes a child.
3) Accuses said cultural deviant of pedophilia.
4) Becomes a priest or politician.
5) Rapes more children.
6) Claims religion or the correct politics are the only way to protect children.
7) Rapes yet more children.
8) Dies fat and hated.
If you can provide evidence of this, then show it. We have provided dozens of cases of grooming and outright abuse being done by liberals in places like public schools, Hollywood, etc., which are run by individuals with left-wing views. After all, conservatives weren’t the ones defending Cuties, unlike a faction of the left.
Until then, I declare that you are lying out of your balls. Repent of your evil ways, Tony.
If anyone else wants to exercise their talents in refuting Tony, by all means do so.
Ensure that you make a convincing argument as to why you single out conservatives. As it stands, there’s a more compelling case in singling out liberals as there’s an actual faction that supports the abuse you described and accuse everyday conservatives of doing. Until then, I declare that you lie in wait to deceive.
Trumpanzee alert! Activate shields, phase-syllogisms on standby, prepare denazification torpedoes...
Care to do Tony's bidding? He disappoints me.
This is in the Google News Archive; 03JUL1988: Super Christian a Child Molester? Evangelist Mario Tony Leyva offering "special religious instruction" Roanoake, Virginia. Lakeland Ledger p.4A or 3/115 Shows a picture of this guy dressed like Superman with the underwear on the outside of his tights. the link might not fit:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=hrpNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=C_wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=994%2C896972
An anecdote is the best you can come up with? I can do the same thing:
https://www.pennlive.com/crime/2022/06/central-pa-drag-queen-activist-charged-with-25-counts-of-child-pornography-police.html
I'll give you credit for your attempt, but it's still a pathetic defense of Tony.
A
ModernRevisionist History Of Groomer PoliticsFIFY.
Seriously, Jesse, anybody who's coached a kids' sports team, led a Scout pack/troop or 4-H group, coordinated a youth day with their Church or school, or any one of a dozen other similar activities is going to go through a youth protection training. Even my Zoomers understand why historically. For you to tell the story the way you have is flatly dishonest.
The funniest thing is, typical to narratives of gossamer and webs of lies, you've painted yourself and your cause into a corner. That is, why no mention of YPT or Virtus (or similar)? Or the fact that countries from the Australia to Canada have been adding anti-grooming laws on the books for over 3 decades? There are plenty of reasons why they cite for passing these laws. So, the question really becomes, why did you omit actual facts and history and disproportionately focus on homosexuals and pedophilia?
The problem with this article is that it fails to take into account the true nature of the push for these things in the first place. Read this article and be educated:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-experiment-that-placed-foster-children-with-pedophiles
This is the source and reasoning behind the push to legitimize.. basically everything and anything.
... rather than just the initiation of force to redefine vices as crimes?
Sounds like a lot of excuses for barbaric behavior to me. These people are intelligent enough to know that what they do is wrong and the evidence is they try to hide the facts of what they do. I don't care if they are executed for their behavior and I am not talking about some young men running around with teenagers but young children being molested.
Slouching toward Sodom and Gomorrah, like Bork's book.
Articles like this come out to get people used to the idea, and talking about it. They change the names for things: don't say homosexual, say "gay". They aren't gay at all in the sense of the "gay blade", Zorro. English is one word more poor for it.
So now here they come, they got the memo from HQ, instead of saying groomer, say minor-attracted persons.
No dice. When the cup of iniquity is full, then comes judgment, and Lot's wife is turned into a pillar of salt.
Back when Chicago burned down, "gay" meant sexually active male or female, typically hetero. In the 1920s, a political cartoon showed a Senator (labeled Gay Deceiver) at a street crossing with a smoking flapper. Scowling matrons backing a law to ban cigarettes whisper in the background. By the 1970s Gay Deceiver was the AI built into a starship in Robert Heinlein novels. Just ask Jesse.
“The social changes that paved the way for gay and trans acceptance have made pedophile acceptance less likely, not more.” More gaslighting. If the above is true, why are we seeing pedophiles being rebranded as “minor attracted people” and public drag shows where children are encouraged to rub the performers’ crotches? Just asking for a friend.
Jesse's wise, grownup-in-the-room article quickly glosses: "And (in France) as here, gays in the 1980s started doing more to distance themselves from sex with minors." 1982 was the year the child molester plank (https://www.fortfreedom.org/b29.htm) was added to the LP platform, followed in 1986 by the 3-month LP=NAMBLA tirade in "The Intellectual Activist." Suddenly there was this huge falloff in members/donations. Today the plank is still there, watered with a "pay no attention to that pedophile behind the curtain" disclaimer. THAT and anarchist sabotage planks are the LP's real problem right now.
A comment above cites a New York mag article dredging Weimar-era pogroms through East German Cold War attitudes to make a case for Germany influencing US vice laws now. Just now, "Nazi Billionaires" by David de Jong makes a case for Weimar industrialists funding Nazis and rearming Germany through exports, expropriations and tooth fillings, then getting a pass during Denazification because Red atheists are worse. Now those intact fortunes are funding the Mises-brainwashed Alternative für Germany party. So... couldn't AfD nationalsocialists be funding the Anschluss takeover of the LP in Reno? The Reich assisted the Bund, Silver Shirts, America Firsters, Coughlinites and Klan in the 30s and 40s. So why not now?
Ask any practicing homosexual if he knows the word 'pervert". He does. This is about what is perverted and not about whether there is such a thing as perversion.
If homosexual acts aren't perverted (and esp promiscuity) then nothing is.
Politicians are just ruining it, need to make an informed decisions. we work at a digital agency digital marketing agency in guwahati/
Yup, redefine grooming to mean something else and the problem is solved. It's what they've done to all sorts of inconvenient words already.
Coming soon: drag queen school bus.
Works for crime, since they can claim reductions after "decriminalizing" all sorts of felonious behavior.
Gayhound. If they used trains, Glamtrak.
If the driver blows the tranny, the bus can still de driven.
https://nypost.com/2022/12/22/missouri-mayor-bans-kids-from-attending-drag-queen-christmas/
Do you support this mayor's actions?
Especially on the field trip to Climax (Colorado).
Local obscenity laws restricting minorities is hardly new, controversial or unconstitutional.
Do you think it is an example of "run[ning] other people's lives" when the tinpot mayor tells parents they are forbidden from taking their kids to an event that they wish to? By the way, this event was not just a bunch of randos organizing some impromptu thing. It was from a bunch of professionals and the event had been occurring for eight years.
Oh and this quote is notable I think:
“Putting drag queens with Christmas is like slapping God in the face,” said protester Tony Kozich.
So for this protestor, it's not about obscenity, but blasphemy. Should mayors be banning Christmas-themed events deemed blasphemous?
Do you think it is an example of “run[ning] other people’s lives” when the tinpot mayor tells parents they are forbidden from taking their kids to an event that they wish to?
No more than people voting to run their communities as they see fit. Unlike you, I accept that a libertarian society can and will have non-libertarian outcomes and not care. That's what local governance looks like.
I’m sure Shirke hasn’t.
Do Add Bots count as Grooming
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Good luck with that. I and others have asked where he draws the line before. If he answers you, he will punt by saying "experts" (doctors, therapists, teachers, etc.) should make the call about whether a child is being harmed.
Oh, cultural Marxism is real, all right. I just think it unlikely they'd seize on sex as a likely avenue to use as a wedge. Seems to me there'd be much less well guarded pathways by which to infiltrate culture. Sexuality has people so hung up as well as getting so much attention, it's a mine field.