Like Trump, Biden Had a Private Stash of Secret Documents, but It Was Much Less Impressive
In both cases, proving criminal intent would be a tall order.

Six days before the midterm elections, the White House reported on Monday, President Joe Biden's lawyers discovered "a small number of documents with classified markings," dating to his time as vice president, in an office at a Washington, D.C., think tank that he used from mid-2017 until the beginning of his 2020 campaign. Whoops.
Former President Donald Trump predictably seized upon that revelation as evidence that the FBI's investigation of the government records he kept when he left the White House in January 2021 is much ado about nothing. "When is the FBI going to raid the many houses of Joe Biden, perhaps even the White House?" Trump asked on Truth Social. "These documents were definitely not declassified."
Trump was, of course, alluding to the FBI's August 8 search of his residence at Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach resort, which turned up thousands of government documents, including 103 marked as classified. That was in addition to 184 classified documents found in 15 boxes that Trump turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) in January 2022 and 38 that his lawyers produced in response to a federal subpoena last June. Trump also was alluding to his claim that none of those documents remained classified, thanks to a "standing order" he supposedly issued as president, his decision to take the records with him, or possibly a transformation he accomplished mentally "by thinking about it."
Biden's retention of classified material is significant, and the timing of the Justice Department's acknowledgment that it is looking into the incident is fishy. "The White House statement said that it 'is cooperating' with the department," The New York Times notes, "but did not explain why Mr. Biden's team waited more than two months to announce the discovery of the documents, which came a week before the midterm congressional elections when the news would have been an explosive last-minute development." But contrary to what Trump implies, there seem to be substantial differences between what he did and what Biden did, although proving that either amounted to crimes would be a tall order.
According to a statement by Richard Sauber, special counsel to the president, Biden's lawyers found the classified records on November 2 "in a locked closet" while packing up files in an office that he no longer uses at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement. That same day, they notified NARA, which picked up the records the next morning. Sauber did not say exactly how many classified documents Biden had in the office. There were "roughly 10," according to an anonymous source cited by The Washington Post. Nor did Sauber specify what level of classification applied to the records.
The documents "were not the subject of any previous request or inquiry by the Archives," Sauber said. "Since that discovery, the President's personal attorneys have cooperated with the Archives and the Department of Justice in a process to ensure that any Obama-Biden Administration records are appropriately in the possession of the Archives."
Attorney General Merrick Garland has charged John R. Lausch Jr., the Trump-nominated U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, with looking into the matter. If Lausch determines that a full-blown investigation is justified, it seems likely that Garland will appoint a special counsel, as he did in Trump's case.
In contrast with Sauber's description of what happened with the classified records in Biden's office, the controversy over the documents that Trump kept at Mar-a-Lago began when NARA realized in 2021 that specific items were missing from the material it had received from him. That was followed by months of wrangling with Trump's representatives, culminating in the 15-box trove that he surrendered a year after leaving office. The discovery of classified documents in those boxes, coupled with evidence indicating that more remained at Mar-a-Lago, led to the subpoena.
Trump's lawyers said they had conducted a "diligent search" for records marked as classified, which turned up a few dozen more. But that was it, they assured the Justice Department. The Mar-a-Lago search, which was based partly on reports from one or more informants who said that was not true, discovered more than 100 additional documents with markings ranging from "confidential" to "top secret," including "sensitive compartmented information."
Even without considering the thousands of unclassified government documents that Trump stored at Mar-a-Lago, 325 classified records is about 30 times more than "roughly 10." Trump's collection may also have included material that was more sensitive than what Biden had, although we don't know that for sure. And if it is true that Biden's lawyers delivered the records promptly and on their own initiative, that stands in sharp contrast with Trump's resistance, foot dragging, and obfuscation, including his lawyers' false assurance that they had fully complied with the subpoena.
Biden presumably will claim that he inadvertently kept 10 or so classified documents. If that is true, he would not be guilty of "willfully and unlawfully" removing or concealing government records or of "willfully" retaining "national defense information," two of the potential charges that the FBI mentioned in its Mar-a-Lago search warrant affidavit. Nor does it look like Biden would be guilty of intentionally obstructing a federal investigation, another possible crime that the FBI mentioned in connection with the Mar-a-Lago search, since it seems there was no such investigation until Biden's lawyers reported their discovery.
Trump's defense is more complicated. Even if we accept his dubious claim that the 325 documents marked as classified no longer had that status, that does not matter under the statutes that the FBI cited. And Trump's pattern of intransigence, coupled with the large volume of material, lends credence to the idea that he deliberately withheld documents he knew he had no right to keep.
It is nevertheless plausible that Trump kept the records because he wrongly considered them his personal property and resisted returning them for the same reason. It is also plausible, especially given the haphazard manner in which the documents were packed and stored, that Trump did not know exactly what was in the boxes. His conduct, in other words, can be explained by a combination of ignorance, arrogance, stubbornness, laziness, and carelessness rather than criminal intent.
In addition to the issue of intent, both of these cases raise the question of how sensitive these documents actually are. "In both situations," a "person familiar with the Biden inquiry" told the Post, "classified national security information went somewhere it shouldn't have, so that raises a bigger question about the handling of classified [material], both in the White House and then during the period of transition."
In Trump's case, we have only a vague idea of the subjects covered by the classified records, let alone the information they contain. In Biden's case, we know even less. It is therefore hard to assess the gravity of the national security threat that storing them in unapproved places may have posed. The FBI evidently thought that threat was serious enough in Trump's case to justify an unprecedented search of a former president's home. But the stronger the basis for that judgment, the less we are allowed to know about it.
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“Like Trump, Biden Had a Private Stash of Secret Documents, but It Was Much Less Impressive”
I was wondering how you shills were going to try and excuse it. So, we don’t know exactly what was in either stash, but in this instance it’s okay because somehow it’s “Much Less Impressive”?
Amazing.
How do you guys live with yourselves?
I was just thinking, in accordance with the obvious-conspiracy-theory-as-reality Bizarro World rubric; Biden's trove of documents contains proof of every other obvious-conspiracy-theory-as-reality in the last 10 yrs. and the "Whoops!" narrative is being used to paper over and dismiss it.
Can the fuckwit at reason who deleted these comments explain why they did?
Rob Misek 9 hours ago
Is it not true that unlike Trump, as VP, Biden didn’t have the authority to declassify the documents before he “stashed” them?
Reply Edit
Don't look at me! 9 hours ago
Mute User
That’s they way I understand it.
Reply
That's the problem with secrets, there's no way of telling how secret the secrets are and, ergo, how impressive one secret is compared to another. We know, because of leaks, that Trump's secret documents contained, among other things, "documents related to North Korea" which is probably at least in part the letters he received from Kim Jong Un. Federal government property? Unambiguously yes. State secret? EHHHHH. Now given the sheer volume of paper taken from Trump's storage we can be reasonably certain that there was more than just those letters, but what's in the rest of it? We just don't know. For all we know, Biden left the nuke launch codes on a single sheet of 8.5x11 lying on his desk while Trump's vast hoard was entirely over classified notepad doodles of Jeff Sessions with demon horns, or vice versa.
I guess we'll just have to take the Fed's word for it.
Donnie's boy-crush on Lil Kim should not be classified. I say publish their love letters.
It would be so cool of you me to a maximum security prison. Your kind don’t fare well in that environment. I suspect you would be raped to death.
A fitting end to a child fucker like you.
Biden's trove included SCI-level info on Ukraine, Iran, and the UK. SCI is higher than Top Secret. Also, the VP has no authority to declassify documents, so unless Obama wants to stick his neck out and say he declassified in order to save Joe "f things up" Biden, then a crime has been committed. Intent has nothing to do with it.
Replied to the wrong post? This reads like a jumble of half-baked Trump Defense Force nonsense.
According to the Democrats and HRC's 20,000 classified emails on an illegal private server accessible and accessed by her maid who has no clearance....no intent, no harm, no foul for the Sec of State.
Yet, if a Republican President has classified docs in a secured room in a secured building that is protected by secret service, and most If not all of the documents have hand written notes on them (as the FBI admitted); the problem is that those NOTES require review and distribution to the NATIONAL ARCHIVES! Yet librarians at the archive generally do NOT have the clearances necessary to handle many classifications of documents.
This is all now POLITICAL and time for the GOOSE to pay the price the Gander Pays.
I don't think someone counts as a "shill" if their argument is that Biden is bad, but Trump is worse, because that's objectively true. Reason has been pretty consistent in saying Biden is bad in a lot of articles. It's true that they portray Trump more negatively than they portray Biden, but that's because he really is much, much worse. They're just being accurate.
This is true for Reason's coverage of the Right in general over the past few years. The reason they cover the Right more negatively than they have in the past is that the Right really has gotten worse. That doesn't mean the Left hasn't gotten worse too (they definitely have), but the Right did it faster and they did it more.
"but that’s because he really is much, much worse"
How?
How is Trump worse than Biden?
Give us a few examples more substantive than mean tweets.
The editors that voted for Biden continue to protect that vote. They mention Biden’s foibles as a starting place to criticize Trump. They accomplish their goal of attacking the more libertarian Trump which, in their minds, may lessen the damage caused by the current Biden news. It provides some chaff and redirect for Biden all the while being able to maintain the appearance of being critical of Biden.
Yep. Just don't call them poorly closeted proggs.
Are you fucking kidding? The democrats are actively working to turn up the US into something resembling the Soviet Union. What the hell has the right done that’s even close to that?
I think they count as a shill if their argument is that we don't know the extent of the problem in Biden's case, and are just throwing out some numbers and assuming it's bad in Trump's case, but Biden's case is obviously much more minor than Trump's.
There's nothing obvious about it, we don't know what sort of 'classified' documents Trump had, or even if they were genuinely still classified, given that he DID have declassification authority at the time he took them.
Likewise, we don't know what sort of 'classified' documents Biden had, either.
We really have no basis at all at this point for saying that Trump's worse than Biden. All we really know is that the feds were much more aggressive about going after Trump than Biden.
Really, the only reason we've even heard of these documents is that the Democrats have decided that they're doomed if they run Biden in 2024, and they're setting the stage to dump him. So it's now acceptable to ask embarrassing questions at press conferences, and report stuff that makes him look bad. If it weren't for that, we'd never have heard about them.
So that's really the only thing we've learned from this affair at this point.
"We really have no basis at all at this point for saying that Trump’s worse than Biden." This is only true if you ignore everything about how the classified documents were given back to NARA/the govt. Biden's camp voluntarily handed them over soon after their discovery.
Trump fought with NARA for months...then handed over boxes. Then ignored a federal grand jury subpoena; lied about complying with said subpoena then a judge granted a search warrant which proved the lie about complying with the subpoena. Interestingly, they didn't fight the subpoena with the obvious justification that the documents were de-classified by Trump.
But what is perhaps going to be the funniest part of this...is when the DOJ says "even if Biden broke the law by improperly storing the classified documents...you can't indict a sitting president." Trump is quite familiar with that as it was his many instances of obstruction and interference into various probes which led to that DOJ pronouncement as regards his behavior. But now he is no longer president. You couldn't script this any funnier.
Biden had the documents for at least four years ( closer to five actually).
Yes this is true as they were from his time as VP under Obama... but curiously, nobody demanded them back over those 5yrs (or apparently knew they were missing). There wasn't a back and forth over what to return or when nor a grand jury subpoena nor a search warrant. Trump's biggest downfall in his document scandal appears to be simply that he is just an obstructionist dickhead who never listens to his lawyers.
One of two things is true. Either Biden knew he had them and failed to return them thus knowingly breaking the law or he didn't know he had them and was extremely careless in the handling of top secret documents. Neither is a good look.
Furthermore Trump was arguing through his lawyers that he possessed the documents legally and was willing to let the courts and lawyers sort it out which is actually the appropriate way to handle such a matter.
You're kidding, right? No one in Federal law enforcement or the intelligence community knew that SCI-level documents had been given to Biden. Sure.
"Then ignored a federal grand jury subpoena; lied about complying with said subpoena then a judge granted a search warrant which proved the lie about complying with the subpoena."
Trump never ignored any subpoenas. His lawyers asked for extensions, and eventually provided additional docs.
The search warrant was based on obstruction of justice charges, which obviously turned out to be bogus.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-donald-trump-mar-a-lago-subpoenas-b8082283fc599738c92d1f1ec8680924
"...but Biden’s case is obviously much more minor than Trump’s..."
One more TDS-addled shit-pile heard from.
How much power did Trump have and what did he do with it? How much power did Biden have and what did he do with it? It seems to me Biden and his allies have done much more damage.
I can tell that you are YOUNG as you have no idea what you are talking about relative to what is actually getting worse and which party is harming the country.
I will not argue with someone who has swallowed the lies of media and the left hook, line and sinker and will not see reality.
>How do you guys live with yourselves?
This dude is a complete shill, and has been the two years I've been occasionally reading this web site. He lives with himself because he happily writes what his betters want him to write.
That's the magic of being a media whore. As my grandma always said, "It ain't the walk of shame if you can't feel shame."
I used to subscribe to reason back in the W Bush era, and I think Sullum was one of the more consistently decent and fearless writers back then. His ignoble decline into Comically Bad TDS Click Bait Guy post 2016 has been meteoric.
Holding on to a paycheck for dear life in a dying industry is like that.
It's the same ......... But, but, but; It's DIFFERENT!
It's NOT Trump! /s
Right. Less impressive? We don't really know, the rest of Biden's residence haven't been raided. It took over two months for this to come to light, and it never would of if not for one persistent reporters. Why was Biden hiding it? Reason doesn't ask that question.
"The documents "were not the subject of any previous request or inquiry by the Archives," Of course not, the Biden administration would have to request them and that was not happening,. Trump's were requested as a political witch hunt.
Reason also forgets Trump was President and had the right and power to declassify, Biden was VP and did not. Also what we know about Biden is the classified material he had concerned Ukraine and Iran, and we know of his involvement Ukraine's energy industry, and in the Ukraine war and in Iran's nuclear deals. That makes Biden's documents way more suspicious and damaging.
Actually it took over 6 years to come to light, it took over two months after the lawyers "found" the docs for them finding them to come to light. I'm unsure how you keep SCI documents for 6 years without knowing you have them, but since Joe was clueless that he'd somehow "accidentally" taken SCI documents it would behoove us to have the FBI raid all of his homes and offices and see what else he "accidentally" took with him.
We know that a sitting President can declassify stuff on a whim what are the rules regarding a sitting VP? Trump at least has a legal path (whether he used it properly is debatable) to having such documents.
What would happen to anyone on this forum who was found possessing TS SCI documents?
Very funny and predictable.
We dont know exact details about either, but from go we knew
1- Trump might have had nuclear secrets
2- Trump was acting maliciously
3- Trump may have been trying to sell nuclear secrets to Russia/Saudis
4- Trumps situation totally merited a raid and fishing expedition
5- Oh ya, Bidens was probably fine and not impressive
Very amazing
The FBI has already come out and said there was nothing in Trumps collection, it was all momentoes, it was reported once then purposely forgotten so they could keep up the charade that Trump did something
At least the FBI agents got to try on Melania's Victoria's Secret stash.
"Hey agent Bob, how do I look in this lacy bra and panties."?
I hope you saw the Babylon Bee bit with Merrick Garland. Hilarious.
Do you have Joe Biden's pen*s in your mouth right now Reason?
Oh who am I kidding--you are older than 8 so he's "moved on."
When will you?
Biden Had a Private Stash of Secret Documents, but It Was Much Less Impressive
Literally reads like something Trump would write!
Trump's stash was HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE!
I expect even Trump would admit size matters.
What's with the superfluous 'H'?
A 'Y' I could accept. But an 'H'? Jezzus Christ man, come on.
Right?
"Biden also built a hotel in Atlantic City, but it was much less impressive".
Sounds like something straight from a Trump Team press release.
Lol.
Never change sullum.
325 classified records is about 30 times more than "roughly 10." Trump's collection may also have included material that was more sensitive than what Biden had, although we don't know that for sure.
First the law you previously cited doesn't mention number of documents needed to violate the law. 1 is the number. Posting the 30 times is meaningless.
CNN has already reported it was compartmentalized TS, same as trump, involving Iran, Ukraine, and the UK.
It should also be pointed out Biden at a minimum transferred these documents twice as the Biden office at UPenn didn't exist until 2018. Likewise these were in a private office with basic locks in a public building whereas trump was at his home under SS protection.
It should also be pointed out that, unlike Trump, Biden was not president. Under the constitution the vice president has zero executive authority. He cannot legally classify or declassify anything. Joe Biden had zero legal authority to remove government documents classified or otherwise when he left office. Trump on the other hand did have the power to declassify until his last day in office.
Yeah, like the Twitter files, this extremely pertinent detail is missing from all current reporting.
It is in fact (D)ifferent, but Reason misses (again) why it it’s different.
That this point was not taken up by the writer is a gigantic tell. Trump at least had a legal path for retaining the docs w/o breaking the law, no such path is available to someone not the POTUS.
See, you came through again.
That is the type spin you Republicans can invent.
It’s not spin. Fuck off demfag.
Was Biden Vice President or President at the time, Shrike? Does the Vice President have the authority to declassify or not, Shrike?
Fuck off with your "spin", you fifty-centing Shill.
He may have a “secret stash” on his hard drive, or as he calls it his erect drive
Well, he probably wiped it. Like, with a cloth or something.
And how do we know any of this is accurate?
Sullums article of comparison is rationalization. That it is all. What a dumb and partisan attempt to spin.
Also Sullum fails to mention once again Obama having classified documents in a warehouse.
Pathetic sullum.
1) It didn’t happen.
2) It did happen but it is not what you think.
3) It did happen but it was just a little.
4) It happened and it actually a good thing.
5) It happened so let’s move on.
6) Racist!
So we’re currently on 3.
yep, I can't wait until we get to 4, 5, and 6.
7) You can't indict a sitting a president. Checkmate.
But you can search their residences for more documents. A crime was committed. There are accomplices who are not president who can be charged after a no-knock raid at 5am. Keep gasping for air, though.
OK, explain the payments from China to this think tank with purloined documents sitting around and prove they weren't buying State Secrets. Come on, this was the Reason standard of proof for Trump and his cabinet it's only fair you need to bump your lies to the same level for your guy. Until then I'm assuming Biden is a traitor and you're an active co-conspirator.
That's funny, because as soon as this story broke the phrase "it is always projection with these people" came to mind.
And then....
They find compartmentalized secret classified documents at a Biden "think tank" that got millions from the Chinese government.
So, I wonder what made "Trump js probably trying to sell state secrets" just pop into their heads??
Whatever the Dems accuse you of, they are doing. It's like the turning of the earth.
Talking points went out.
Congrats on msm membership, Reason.
https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1612844926101819392?t=PhcKouy63ecKZ2dz2CDmeQ&s=19
There are clear distinctions between the two classified documents cases involving President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump
Other than the highly paid executives part, this goes for Reason as well
https://twitter.com/TRHLofficial/status/1612904867806191618?t=P0ndar8JMQ_VXUjEPnO_UQ&s=19
While I admire the unabashed commitment to your role as establishment damage control ,it’s absolutely hysterical that this was the best a table of highly paid executives could come up with to tell the people why it’s (D)ifferent.
Trump had nuclear secrets! NuCLeAr SeCrEtS!!!!
Nuke-uler. It’s pronounced nuke-uler.
Back to trusting the FBI again?
This is embarrassing.
If you had said "no big deal. Nothing to see here." as the state propaganda machine came after Trump about a filing cabinet full of documents, you would have a leg to stand on.
But since you decided that it was clear that the Billionaire was selling state secrets to Russia (presumably for as much as hundreds of thousands of dollars), it is just ludicrous that you now conclude that the guy who has been caught red-handed being on the take... more than once... has absolutely, positively done nothing wrong by putting state secrets in an unsecured building that is largely funded by a foreign government that Biden is known to have taken bribes from.
I suppose your only possible defense for whatever credibility you presume to claim would be that you were too busy trying to deny the contents of junior's laptop to have read about those contents in order to know just how red-handed he was caught taking bribes.
But really.... how can you go out in public after penning this laughable take?
But really…. how can you go out in public after penning this laughable take?
Smugly?
We live in an environment with no consequences for a certain sort, and that has led to the most despicable characters proliferating.
Cutie Reason is already parroting CNN..it is different with Corn Pop...not the same as the Putin puppet and traitor Trump right Jake?
We learned yesterday that Russian trolls did NOT effect the outcome of the 2016 election with their disinformation campaign, BUT conversely Twitter definitely threw the 2020 election to Joe by not publishing HUNTER BIDENS DICK PICS.
It took wingnuts a few weeks to work out that narrative.
Now look for a similar narrative soon that excuses Fatass Donnie’s classified info collection but indicts Joe’s.
Oh, and 10% bar tab. That too.
You mean other than Biden was VP when he got those documents and didn't have any power to declassify?
He’s still focusing on Hunter’s schlong.
"He’s still focusing on Hunter’s schlong."
See:
"I don’t care about Biden...'
turd lies, it's what turd does.
I don't care about Biden. I hope he gets impeached by the House.
Once again, to all you Peanuts, I am FOR gridlock - a government that cannot pass new spending bills. Tie the feds up with a bogus impeachment.
Buttplug = For gridlock since 2004.
You don't care enough to draw an equivalency between Trump and Biden, yet you did.
Yeah, they both pilfered classified documents.
It is the partisans rushing to defend their guy that I am calling out for hypocrisy.
And you still ignore statutory authority, not surprising.
It is the partisans rushing to defend their guy that I am calling out for hypocrisy.
By callously dismissing all of Bidens scandal as Hunters meat rod.
Never change you pervert.
I did not "dismiss" Biden's classified info ordeal, you idiot.
Get them both. It would be worth it to see Fatass Donnie in prison. Send Joe too.
It would be worth it to see Fatass Donnie in prison.
Well that lasted 7 minutes.
Never change.
Both parties suck.
I know you H&R Republicans disagree.
Says the guy constantly defending Biden until called out.
Which is why you spend all day crying about a drug addicts johnson.
Never change.
Is his mind, Hunter will always be Joe’s boy, Joe’s child. Hence the fascination.
Says the maroon who goes into #DefendBidenAtAllCosts all the fucking time.
Hahahaha
Fuck you, demfag.
Remember, if turd posts it, it's a lie.
There was the one time he accidentally posted something true - but it turned out that he had just been lying to himself the whole time.
So, I'm not sure how to rate it.
Your godking soros sure supports him and other democrats. And if you are so against him why is 90% of your effort defending him and his sons dick?
I am not against Biden either.
I am FOR gridlock. A Dem POTUS/Senate and GOP House is the only form of gridlock that guarantees no new spending.
I'm good. Gridlock has been obtained.
Never forget, turd lies. And when he's called on his lies, he simply adds more lies.
turd lies; it's what turd does.
Maybe not always. Once asked him what his favorite salad dressing was and he told me Neverland ranch. I believe that.
Well, turd does make mistakes from time to time.
Just this thread you defended against him and his sons laptop yet again. You aren't intelligent enough to gaslight.
No, I laugh at you idiots who believe "Big Guy 10%" actually means something.
It doesn't.
That is not defending Biden. It is mocking your silly belief.
And you're full of shit, as usual.
So "10% for the big guy" doesn't mean anything to you, but what about all the other Burisma emails on the laptop?
"...That is not defending Biden..."
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled pile of shit, a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Buttplug = pedophile
Trump didn't have the power to declassify via telepathy either.
Actually, he might. Unless Jesus told him he couldn't, of course.
You sure love Hunter's dick.
I can't wait for the House to investigate it. For months. What else can they do?
Send doomed legislation to the Senate?
Hilarious. The GOP House may as well watch Clarence Thomas' favorite porn all day. Their legislation is doomed.
Yes, the party out of power is there to prevent bad legislation from the other side. It’s not there to get it’s own legislation through. That’s just politics 101.
Marjorie Taylor-Greene, noted political scientist.
Funny, she’s smarter than your whole Marxist party.
Think about that.
Do you disagree with this statement? If so, you should set forth your argument.
I disagree that total obstructionism was part of the founders' plan. They didn't even want political parties.
The relevant story is the radicalization of the Republican party. Utterly batshit bonkers. If you believe that drag queens are a greater threat to humanity than climate change, you need to be locked in a padded room forever.
Where did I say obstructionism was the plan of the Founders? It’s so hard anymore when people choose to argue against points that weren’t made. Straw manning is so prominent anymore.
And no, Tony, the relevant story is how tribalism has almost eliminated intelligent thought, policy, discussion, and plan. The right isn’t any more radical than it has been for decades. The left, on the other hand, is much more radical than it ever has been. But that’s also the nature of what progressive and conservative positions are.
Boiled down, progressives need to keep progressing, whether it’s good or not. Conservatives need to keep the status quo in place, whether good or not. This is actually a wonderfully beneficial system as it is a built in check and balance to either side’s extremity. Yet, the end result is a continuous march to the left. That’s inevitable. To claim we are somehow marching back to the right is simply political propaganda to fire up a base rather than understanding reality.
The problem is that this concept is lost on so many, including people like you who play the “my team is saintly, your team is evil” pseudo-intellectual politics. It’s just absurd framing to play a superficial game rather than actually addressing substance.
Take your example. It’s actually possible to think more than one thing at once. It’s possible to be concerned with the growing desire on the left to have sexual performances for children and to be so infatuated with sex and children. It’s also possible to be concerned about environmental issues that need to be addressed. It’s also appropriate to be skeptical of both issues being actual problems, or to what degree they are problems.
But these are nuanced positions requiring an open mind to think about and contemplate; not childish gotchaisms and ignorant smug positioning.
But people like you perpetuate the problems you claim to hate. You create false choices, you create the inability to negotiate and draw good ideas from both sides of the aisle. Your purpose is to righteously lecture your political opponents to feel better about yourself. It has nothing to do with the actual issues of the day. It has everything to do with whatever false reality TV narratives are being battled over by the tribal teams.
Climate change? You're just hot for Greta, right?
How about they try to work on what legislation both parties are able to agree on, instead of wasting taxpayer dollars on investigations that will go nowhere and accomplish nothing?
That would be fantastic. But in today’s society of my political team is righteous and good and your political team is vile and evil, you aren’t allowed to have any level of the other team’s priorities or ideas to be effectuated.
Wondering if you voiced this opinion during Russiagate and two impeachments. I am doubtful.
At least they're not watching your favorite porn. Now, what was that that got your old handle, "Sarah Palin's Buttplug" banned? Hmmmmmm. Oh yes, you posted dark web hardcore child porn links to Reason that got that handle banned and the thread cleansed.
SPB2 is jealous of Hunter's dick and the attention it gets.
I think you’re forgetting it’s really all about Hunter Biden’s dick.
So, your position is it happened, but it’s not as bad as they say?
“We learned yesterday that Russian trolls did NOT effect the outcome of the 2016 election with their disinformation campaign”
Yeah, because the russian disfinfo were stupid facebook ads affected virtually no one. This is old news, James Comey made this conclusion a few years ago.
“BUT conversely Twitter definitely threw the 2020 election to Joe by not publishing HUNTER BIDENS DICK PICS.”
No, Twitter banned access to a legitimate story at the behest of the government. Twitter blacklisted the NYP first and THEN tried to rationalize it by claiming that they violated rules on explicit materials. There were no Hunter Biden dick picks on the NYP story.
So you’re basically in the 1% of dummies who actually bought Twitter’s excuse even AFTER the Twitter files dropped. You’re either a partisan hack or really like dick picks.
I think the overarching worst thing about this is how both sides are rallying around their guy to defend from the accusations and doing so with massive amounts of disingenuousness and whataboutism where at the end of the day the actions of both Biden and Trump were bad.
Additionally, while everyone argues about whose guy is worse, neither will face any repercussions for their actions all while if some random Joe Schmo did what either Trump or Biden did, they would be sitting in a jail cell right now.
Should they face repercussions? Active clearance holders. At least one in protective storage. Government that over classifies. Don’t we believe in a system of only going after something causing harm to someone else?
We didn’t go after the NYT over the pentagon papers after all.
I will also add that one side is using the story to target a political opponent while the other side is pointing out the hypocrisy. Which is worse?
You're conversing with a raging case of TDS here.
Yup, your lips are so thoroughly attached to Trump's boot that you definitely have a terrible case of TDS.
Typical response of dishonest TDS-addled piles of shit. You admitted a couple of weeks ago that Trump was the best POTUS for the last century, and yet your adolescent fixation on personality makes it very clear you are a fucking idiotic pile of shit, not worthy of anything other than scorn.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Yeah, I have never said Trump was the best POTUS for the last century. I mean, that's just a bizarre lie.
"Yeah, I have never said Trump was the best POTUS for the last century. I mean, that’s just a bizarre lie."
No, you lying TDS-addled pile of shit, you whined about how horrible he was until you got that list jammed down your throat.
Fuck off and die you dishonest asshole.
BTW, it needs to be made clear that the TDS-addled shit pile Inquisitive Squirrel agreed a couple of weeks ago that Trump was, indeed, the best POTUS we've had in nearly 100 years. Consider that while you consider IS oh, so 'adult' response to being called on his raging case of TDS:
"Inquisitive Squirrel 3 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Yup, your lips are so thoroughly attached to Trump’s boot that you definitely have a terrible case of TDS.
No, shit-pile, YOU own the case of TDS. Fuck off and die.
Wow, your unhingedness is pretty unmatched.
Wow, your dishonesty would embarrass an intelligent person.
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled pile of shit.
My opinion is most of what is classified isn’t remotely worth it’s classification. My opinion is repercussions should only be had for legitimate improper dissemination of truly classified material, which would include gross negligence in its handling. And just because someone is an active clearance holder, doesn’t give them a pass for such transgressions. And it is quite arguable that releasing classified info can cause harm to others.
And the NYT did not participate in acquiring the pentagon papers. They received them through lawful means. That’s a huge difference.
My main point, though, is that we are seeing a situation of the “little people” making excuses for the “betters” in the name of politics all while the “betters” would throw every single “little person” in jail without a care in the world if they had done what the “betters” had done.
And you want to compare who was worse? One side defended the shit out of Trump for what he did. Now, they are using what happened to Biden to justify the defense of Trump. That’s pretty bad all around. The other side used Trump’s own idiocy to launch a hysteric and hyperbolic political attack against him to the point of claiming he put the entire country in harms way. Now, that side is trying to wipe away any concerns about what Biden did in a completely disgusting and bullshit tribal manner.
It’s all political. It’s all being debated and discussed in a hyper-partisan and disgusting manner, like normal. The actual facts and issues tend to be falling by the wayside while each side tries to own the other side more for the fact that both sides have garbage people doing garbage things.
It’s just wash, rinse, repeat. Day in and day out.
which would include gross negligence in its handling. And just because someone is an active clearance holder, doesn’t give them a pass for such transgressions.
The difference here from a standard clearance holder and a president exists. Presidwnts often exist surrounded by classified documents, often relying on aides to store them properly. On top of that they can declassify at will, per Egan vs Navy.
Here there was no dissemination of anything, but one party wants to arrest and outlaw one side from running.
From a classification standpoint Biden was worse due to the location, public building, than trump, ex presidents residence under constant SS protection.
I dont think either should be locked up for it. O do think Biden and Obama handled the material worse due to the locations each discovered documents in.
I don’t think either should be jailed. I, however, don’t think the Biden thing is worse, I think they are on the same level, for the most part. Trump had 30x more documents and they were nearly as publicly available as the documents that Biden had. And even though Trump could declassify, he didn’t to the point that his counsel wouldn’t even argue that issue. And moreover, just because he could, doesn’t mean he should.
In the end, neither Biden nor Trump should have done what they did and I have no desire to defend either for their actions.
As concerns political reaction by either side, the left is much more egregious on this than the right. They went full righteous, over-the-top condemnation (like is the way of the left), and now watching them having to avoid eating crow, it’s actually quite entertaining.
But, I do appreciate your position on this.
"...I, however, don’t think the Biden thing is worse, I think they are on the same level, for the most part..."
There's a reason for the admission of such fucking idiocy, but I charge a lot of money to tell you.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Trust me, no one wants to pay for your crazy.
Trust me, no one will pay for your lying.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
So I take it that you don't think the majority of the documents are related to Crossfire Hurricane that Trump explicitly and publicly declassified, but the DOJ and FBI have refused to release; despite a subsequent court order.
IS is an avowed member of the "TDS Addled Shit Pile" club. If IS ever became an adult, IS would be ashamed of the idiocy previously evident.
IS, please do the world a favor: Fuck off and die.
It's actually funny to think that you are an adult. Coming to Reason day after day to post the same inane comments. Truly remarkable.
Not nearly as funny as you assuming your raging case of TDS makes you qualified to post on nearly any subject.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
I don't know if they were or not. I would love for someone to release them. But Trump didn't even do that.
Biden was not POTUS. End of story.
"I think the overarching worst thing about this is how both sides are rallying around their guy to defend from the accusations and doing so with massive amounts of disingenuousness and whataboutism where at the end of the day the actions of both Biden and Trump were bad..."
You need to stuff your TDS up your ass:
"Gaear Grimsrud 45 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
It should also be pointed out that, unlike Trump, Biden was not president. Under the constitution the vice president has zero executive authority. He cannot legally classify or declassify anything. Joe Biden had zero legal authority to remove government documents classified or otherwise when he left office. Trump on the other hand did have the power to declassify until his last day in office."
False equivalence is the last refuge of the Republican. They'd prefer a clean scandal, like emails on a private server. But when they're caught in bed fucking a kid, they sure as hell going to find a Democrat who cheated on his cancer wife.
What is the precedent for how such infractions are treated is a standard to measure whether the actions taken in a specific case are justified.
Dems are fantastic at false equivalencies. I mean, when Dems talk about Repub censorship, they invariably cite to some local school district removing a pornographic book from a library.
When Repubs talk about censorship, they talk about the alphabet agencies of the US government taking action against those who say things they don't like.
Problem is, you are just a mindless tribalist at this point. Your position is easy to understand: Dems good and virtuous, Repubs vile and evil.
It's anti-intellectual, but that tends to be the mantra of the left anymore.
Hillary didn't sit in a jail cell.
Hillary was/is a "better." So of course she won't be sitting in a jail cell.
"In both cases, proving criminal intent would be a tall order."
What is meaning "proving"?
Biden's lawyers found the classified records on November 2 "in a locked closet" while packing up files in an office that he no longer uses
Uh, huh. Who *was* "using" the office?
That will be answered after Trump can be dovetailed into the narrative. Spinsters are working hard to get this completed; please be patient.
And Hillary Clinton had a bunch of emails concerning various classified issues, but they somehow disappeared, so that was all right.
Hillary also ostensibly fell, hit her head and didn’t remember so totes ok.
What difference, at this point, does it make?
In both cases, the general accusations ar uninteresting to me. I don’t think either should face repercussions. But the specifics could be very interesting. If Biden kept documents relating to Ukraine and potentially Burisma, that’s juicy. It’s likewise juicy if Trump has documents relating to FBI surveillance and FISA courts.
But since we’re basically never going to know what either case includes, the only reason to talk about this is to inquire whether double standards are being applied. Does one case disqualify someone from holding public office while the other does not?
So the impression I'm getting is that Trump and Biden both misplaced/wrongly held onto classified documents because they are both idiots. Trump held onto 30 times as many documents, so he is roughly 30 times as idiotic as Biden. Sounds about right.
I can see the slogans in the next election. "Vote for Biden! He's 30 times less idiotic than the other guy!" Why is it so hard to get good candidates?
If Trump's documents are related to Crossfire Hurricane then they were declassified and he had every right to them.
I guess we'll never know, because despite a court order and being declassified, the DOJ refuses to release them.
If Trump said they are declassified, by law, they are.
"Why is it so hard to get good candidates?"
Maybe the explanation is that you, and your ilk, are too stupid to recognize a "good candidate" anyway.
Weird, I missed the part about the search warrants on Biden’s properties and the FBI raids thereof.
In Trump's case, we have only a vague idea of the subjects covered by the classified records, let alone the information they contain. In Biden's case, we know even less.
But somehow we know Biden's stash is "less impressive." How does anyone know that when no search warrants of Biden's properties have been executed?
Is it normal to take the word of potential criminals? "Yup. That's all I got! Scout's honor!"
Was Trump a potential criminal when this was only about him?
No. Fuck off and die.
Missed this skimming the article:
"Six days before the midterm elections, the White House reported on Monday, President Joe Biden's lawyers discovered "a small number of documents with classified markings," dating to his time as vice president, in an office at a Washington, D.C., think tank that he used from mid-2017 until the beginning of his 2020 campaign. Whoops..."
So less than a week before another election of some importance, evidence of droolin' Joe's possible maleficence was found and now, 2 months later, we are informed of it?
Did I miss how the voters were not informed of this when it happened? Have to admit that reading one of Sullum's TDS-riddled prose is more than anyone not so ravaged is too much to ask.
In both cases, proving criminal intent would be a tall order.
That's a sharp turn. I think my neck hurts.
That sound wasn’t your neck. It was Sullum breaking the Blasey-Ford Credibility Limit.
Jacob Sullum's career: Paid to say the shit that needs sayin'.
"Biden 'surprised' government records found at old office"
https://www.aol.com/news/gop-requests-intelligence-damage-assessment-000832070.html
Which is both not surprising and good reason to assume his lack of control over that which he had no business handling was criminal.
I'll assume the comments are about how, while Trump's pilfering of classified documents and refusal to return them was NBD, all of a sudden it's the BD of the universe, if only because of the media hypocrisy that's bound to happen.
Shitbag assumes this is a comment intelligent people will see as valid:
"I’ll assume the comments are about how, while Trump’s pilfering of classified documents and refusal to return them was NBD, all of a sudden it’s the BD of the universe, if only because of the media hypocrisy that’s bound to happen."
Shitbag, stop drinking so early; not even your momma could offer a defense for that bullshit.
For me I will say I don't give a shit. However, I think the people defending Biden would not give Trump the same benefit of the doubt even if the circumstances were all the same.
Just like I don't think the people saying they're upset over what Trump did really care about classified documents nor do i think they really believe he was offering to sell them to foreign countries
There are some serious differences.
First, when he took the documentation, Trump was the president who does have near limitless declassification powers. Biden was not.
Second, this was deliberately hidden from the public through an election.
Third, the treatment by the media is apologetic instead of apocalyptic.
Fourth and most importantly. We know beyond any reasonable doubt that Biden has accepted direct bribes from multiple foreign countries. The fact that he had classified documents and took bribes together raises a distinct possibility that he sold them.
While the possibility that Trump had sold the documents was raised, it was nothing more than supposition but was repeated endlessly. Here, the circumstantial evidence is raising a red flag large enough to make Mao proud, and yet it's getting hushed up.
" near limitless declassification powers."
Classification is an Executive function. As such POTUS' power is plenary.
Tell that to Navy vs. Egan.
Who was POTUS in this case; it seems you are confused.
It's also possible that the inference of documents being sold could arise from the 2billion infusion of cash into president Trump's son in law's investment firm from Saudi's...and/or the search warrant return showing many folders with classification markings but the folders were empty. So whatever documents were in them were missing and possibly still floating around somewhere. IT IS STILL SPECULATION but some inferences based on known facts are stronger than others.
As opposed to the clear evidence of Biden working with Ukrainians and Chinese. You're going to run out of air.
"It’s also possible that the inference of documents being sold could arise from the 2billion infusion of cash into president Trump’s son in law’s investment firm from Saudi’s..."
Really reaching there, aren't you, you pathetic piece of shit?
Tony The FAG speaks.
Member of the LGBT community.
That's Lesbian AND Gay. What's the difference? One sucks dick.
Tony, you've got a little dribble on your chin.
"Like Trump, Biden Had a Private Stash of Secret Documents, but It Was Much Less Impressive"
Like Duranty, the TDS-addled shit-pile Sullum lies.
Stuff your TDS up your ass, Sullum, your head is asking for company. And then, make your family proud, your dog happy and everyone who knows that you are a lying pile of shit; fuck off and die
The FBI conclusion to this story…???? Ya know; just like the Hunter laptop story…
“Well we don’t know for sure that Trump didn’t hire Russians to plant those documents in Bidens file cabinet…”… ????
Projecting and Deflecting 24/7.
Refusing to turn them over for over a year, then lying about still having more, makes the equation on criminal intent clearly different, not that Republicans or the fake libertarians in denial about being one here are capable of nuance or good faith discussion about it. Somehow I also doubt they were TS/SCI stuff that shouldn't have been removed from a SCIF anyway.
They were classified and he had no authority to remove them, but of course it's just (D)ifferent when they do it.
He had less and wasted no time in turning them in, right? Shout it from the rooftops. Of course, it doesn't hurt to ask if they turned these in right away to avoid much more substantial raids later. Though they sure did waste time in making it public.
Tell me: why didn't the Biden admin, in the name of transparency, announce this the day it happened? Especially if it was no big deal?
Sorry, totally wrong. You suck at this
"...not that Republicans or the fake libertarians in denial about being one here are capable of nuance or good faith discussion about it..."
Stuff your TDS up your ass, fuck-face. Your head is begging for company.
If it’s not so bad why was the information discovered before the mid terms yet not made public until long after they were over?
And since there haven’t been any raids done, we don’t really know if it truly wasn’t as impressive.
In other words, the FBI went after Trump for something that Presidents and Vice Presidents routinely do. This was about punishing the uncouth outlier for not being in the so-called “normal” good ole boy politician club.
Not VPs. No authority, unlike the POTUS.
The difference here is you can argue that the President is the supreme executive authority in the US government and has the power to classify/declassify.
Biden, as Vice President, has no such authority and any classified he has from his time as VP is de facto being possessed illegally.
Biden, as Vice President, has no such authority and any classified he has from his time as VP is de facto being possessed illegally.
Here’s what you don’t know: Sometime between 2009 and 2017 President Obama was suffering from a particularly nasty bout of menstrual cramps. While Obama sobbed on the Oval Office toilet, Biden briefly invoked the Twenty-Fifth Amendment. During this time, Biden declassified all of the material now known to be in his possession, including documents not yet produced or classified.
Actually, Biden as President has already retroactively and proactively declassified all documents that might be, have been, or will be in his possession.
Oh, that's GOOD!
Biden had no power to declassify. Mishandling classified documents can get you up to 10 years, and intent is not an element of the crime. They just have to prove e.g. you left them where a janitor could find them.
Silly person. Laws do not apply to Democrats.
Like Trump, Biden Had a Private Stash of Secret Documents, but It Was Much Less Impressive
Here, let me help--
Biden Had a Private Stash of Secret Documents, but It Was Much More Illegal
See, the VP doesn't have the declassification powers that the president has, so everything Biden had was still fully classified. Additionally, Trump has his under guard in his home. Biden was storing his on the property of a think tank funded by the CCP.
It is highly likely that the raid on Mar a Lago was initiated just to distract from this.
"It is highly likely that the raid on Mar a Lago was initiated just to distract from this."
Agreed.
But isn't Biden just less impressive overall?
The Gospels: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Democrats: "Whataboutism!"
Six days before the midterm elections, the White House reported on Monday, President Joe Biden's lawyers discovered "a small number of documents with classified markings," dating to his time as vice president, in an office at a Washington, D.C., think tank that he used from mid-2017 until the beginning of his 2020 campaign. Whoops.
If six days before the midterm elections it was discovered that Trump had a single document with classified markings, this would be immediately reported in the news instead of shelved for two months.
The media just spent a while loudly arguing that what Trump did was uniquely bad, against the sane people who of course said "all presidents do this"
So do you think we go with the standard memory hole on this one? Or maybe a FYTW?
To be fair to Mr. Biden, we don't know yet if these were actually Top Secret documents, plagiarized Top Secret documents, or excerpts from the Sunday Cartoons that Obama had some intern stamp 'Top Secret' to make VP Biden feel special.
Don't forget that Biden was Vice President who has zero ability to declassify documents, but Trump was President who did have the ability to declassify documents.
The documents that Trump had were in his possession at his house, but with Biden they were housed at a foundation that is partially founded by foreign entities.
Trump was the immediately preceding president, but with Biden it has been six years. Typically there is a battle between outgoing presidents over documents that the national archives want versus their presidential library. People forget that the Obama presidential library holds documents that national archives claim as theirs.
While both are wrong, one is much worse even thought the volume of documents is less.
Their is an obvious double standard at play and they don't even pretend to conceal it anymore. While I really don't like Trump, I do have a degree of compassion for him due to the extreme levels of crap that he has had to endure.
In other words, I despise Trump, but abhor anti-trumpers even more. Trump is less dishonorable than they are.
These two cases should be raising questions about how and what our government classifies as information we the people are not allowed to see. Instead, as usual, it's about two-party politics.
step 1 is holding them to their own standards, and they can say uncle and admit those standards are a bad idea
But things dont get better by playing under their rule set they make specifically to favor themselves, and then saying "aw shucks, lets maybe re-examine the situation" when the rules would affect them.
Not disagreeing with you, but they have to eat crow for their full throated support of the Trump raid and those tactics. They can sit through house investigations (while nothing gets done) and enjoy.
You mean documents about the VP’s Ukraine malfeasance, the collusion with the UK to manipulate US elections, and Obama’s Iran failures are “less impressive”?
Keeping those documents at a Chinese-funded think-tank is less of a problem than keeping them under secret service guard in a highly secure private office?
In addition, the VP simply lacks the authority to declassify documents, so Biden clearly violated classification rules and regulations.
In Trump’s case, proving criminal intent is a tall order. In Biden’s case, that may be considerably easier.
And on top of it all, there was clearly collusion to keep these facts from the public before the election.
Reason: "no big deal, much less bad that Trump". Insane.
For the love of Christ... "keeping them under secret service guard in a highly secure private office?" Mar a Lago is a country club. Quit pretending its fort knox. More than half the documents were in a storage closet...some were in his desk in an office that routinely had guests that Trump entertained milling about. Biden's situation is bad and is evidence of negligent or even reckless handling of classified materials - so just state that. Don't make false comparisons based on made up myths about how secure Mar a Lago was. Fucking random immigrant workers at mar a lago had access to the storage closets, okay?
It is also a private residence with Secret Service protection and extensive private security guards.
That’s a great deal more secure than an office at a Chinese-funded think tank, let alone wherever those documents were for the year before they ended up in that office.
Stop making excuses for the liar and fraud that occupies the WH.
I conceded Biden's actions were at minimum negligent possibly reckless. Why can't the same be conceded about Trump? He is a known braggart. He probably showed people his Kim Jong Un love letters to impress them because he is a narcissistic d-bag.
You attribute to Trump a sense of responsibility that he has no right to earn and has never earned. In fact, the whole classified document fiasco is direct evidence of his irresponsibility. He co-mingled classified documents with personal documents; lied about having them then lied about returning them and was caught red handed doing that. Get off his dick before I call you Stormy.
Yet you steadfastly defend Biden, and do not call for any searches or seizures. Who's signing your checks, Soros or Xi?
Trump has the legal right to declassify documents; Biden does not. Trump also has the legal right to retain documents from his presidency; Biden did not.
In other words, you too believe that with Trump it was all about vanity and there was no security threat associated with those documents
Biden, on the other hand, has been habitually abusing his power and his office, was trying to sabotage the Trump presidency, and has been engaged in a great deal of corruption with the Chinese and Ukraine, and that is what he has retained classified documents for.
I didn't vote for Trump and I don't particularly like him. He is a vain and loud man. But Trump didn't abuse his power and wasn't paid off by foreign governments, unlike Biden.
Why don't you get off Joe's homewrecking rapy dick before I call you Jill.
"I conceded Biden’s actions were at minimum negligent possibly reckless. Why can’t the same be conceded about Trump?"
Because we can consider the source.
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled lying lefty pile of shit.
The fact that his lawyers came forward and admitted this tells you one thing very clearly: they can't be certain that these documents haven't been leaked further and aren't known to other people. Otherwise, they would have just thrown them into the shredder.
There is likely a lot more to this story...
Hacktastic Sullum!
Hacktastic.
You have thrown any credibility you might have once had on a bonfire in service to a fifty plus year self aggrandizing statist apparatchik.
Totes libertarian.
I’m sorry, but it’s too much to ask people to take classified document handling seriously after they were declared nothingburgers years ago.
It’s like when people expected everyone to turn on Trump because he said something disrespectful about a woman: why shouldn’t he get the chance to rape his interns like any other president?
here is what we are learning.... not only that there is a double standard for the elite, but they don't even pretend to care unless they get caught. (and then they only care enough to get people off their backs about it.) Hillary, Trump, and now Biden.... any peasant doing anything even remotely similar would get locked up.
but do we talk about the reckless handling of this material by our betters? do we talk about how we are potentially classifying too many things? not enough to spark any change, because everyone is too busy scrambling to explain why your guy did it worse than my guy.
"but do we talk about the reckless handling of this material by our betters? do we talk about how we are potentially classifying too many things? not enough to spark any change, because everyone is too busy scrambling to explain why your guy did it worse than my guy."
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled lying lefty pile of shit.
The only solution is to defund and shut down the FBI. The only thing they can do is raid the homes of parents who disagree with school boards and entrap people into phony kidnapping plots against governors.
The FBI is a joke albeit a very dangerous joke.
The only thing less impressive is the DHS allowing Biden to return them a few at a time as the CCP returns them to him rather than raiding a secure storage area protected by the Secret Service for press like they did with the Trump docs....
Oh, and the fact that Trump was POTUS and legally able to possess them or declassify them when he got them but as VP it was a crime for Biden to possess them in the first place.
I'm no republican but the bias shown by this administration is impossible not to notice.
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Wapo reported that most of the classified docs were simply kept as mementos. There were no nuclear secrets. There was no evidence that Trump illegally changed details or sold the docs for his own gain.
Since the warrant concerned obstruction of justice charges (questions on whether Trump declassified docs is irrelevant, as Sullum noted) the FBI basically has mud on their face, and any intellectually honest libertarian would take them to task for raiding a private home of a previous president over a document dispute. Remove certain realities from the Trump incident, the outcome could have been as tragic as the Breona Taylor case.
No American citizen should have been treated this way. But for the government to raid a former president’s home, they better have something a little more compelling than hearsay inklings. Make no mistake about it, the raid on Mar a Largo was unprecedented, and a power move by a rival political faction. This is behavior you expect from some dueling 17th century political factions in Europe.
Can Reason AT LEAST say that it was wrong for the DOJ to send armed agents to ransack a home owned by an American president? Over a document dispute? If the FBI raided a pot dispensary owned by neo nazis over some dubious charges, you would fault them for that, right? The character of the target would not excuse government overreach?
"...Can Reason AT LEAST say that it was wrong for the DOJ to send armed agents to ransack a home owned by an American president? Over a document dispute? If the FBI raided a pot dispensary owned by neo nazis over some dubious charges, you would fault them for that, right? The character of the target would not excuse government overreach?"
I doubt it, which is the reason my current donation is $2.50/year, just so they know I didn't forget.
Now, it turns out a VP with no authority to declassify anything seems to have grabbed and tossed classified documents in places he can't seem to remember:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD2VJ6XOkvk
Dementia x criminal activity = droolin' Joe
Under the law it doesn’t matter. One document or 1000 it is the same. Also Trump had the right and power to declassify, Biden did not, that makes Biden’s having the documents much worse. Also Reason jumps the gun again to protect the Biden crime family, more Biden documents have been exposed. And they haven’t even raided all of Biden’s homes and rifled through Dr. Jill’s underwear drawers yet! Also Biden’s documents are about things him and Hunter were involved in like Ukraine energy, Iran nukes, and China, which gave huge donations of millions to the Penn Biden center. The documents were in a closet with no chain of custody. Biden packed and oversaw the packing of these documents. Trump on the other hand did not, the White House staffers and archive people packed his documents.
i.e. Trump did not steal documents, Biden did.
WASHINGTON — Aides to President Joe Biden have discovered at least one additional batch of classified documents in a location separate from the Washington office he used after leaving the Obama administration, according to a person familiar with the matter. nbcnews.com - Jan. 11, 2023
Now that a 2nd batch of classified documents were found I can't wait to see Biden cultists still spin it as no big deal.
Biden violated several federal statutes by possessing SCI documents, period. Also, the - at least two - caches of illegally possessed documents were unsecured.
Trump is covered by the Presidential Records Act and by his prerogative at President to declassify any document. Furthermore, Mar-a-Lago is protected by the Secret Service, and the documents in question were kept in a locked room.
More Biden "stashes."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-aides-find-second-batch-classified-documents-new-location-rcna65371?cid=ed_npd_bn_tw_bn
Doubt Sullum will even bother to hand wave these away.
Hack Sullum hack.
"Like Trump, Biden Had a Private Stash of Secret Documents, but It Was Much Less Impressive"
Poor, poor, TDS-addled shit-pile Sullum.
Wanna eat your words or just keep hiding?
Found them sitting unsecured in a garage at his home.
And no, a lock on the door is not remotely “secure” for the purposes of SCI.
We're now up to three stashes.
Not to worry, the TDS-addled Sullum will be along soon to explain how Trump was much, much worse!
Biden's stash of classified documents is becoming more impressive and varied every day, yet no FBI raids yet!
Additional Classified Documents Found in the Garage and Home of Joe Biden Personal Residence in Delaware
The Wilmington documents are the second stash of Obama-era classified documents to be uncovered. The first collection was found at Washington offices of the Penn Biden Center, a Biden-aligned think tank. The Penn-Biden Center opened in 2018, the classified documents were from a period of the Obama-Biden term prior to the Biden exit in January 2017. Where were the documents in the interim period?
Reason continues to make excuse for the most corrupt President ever, Joe Biden.
Edward Snowden
@Snowden
Worth noting that the President seems to have absconded with more classified documents than many whistleblowers. For comparison, Reality Winner was sentenced to 5 YEARS for just one document.
Liars are always changing their story!
Joe Biden’s Classified Documents Alibi Changes from Not Knowing to Securely ‘Locked’ in Residence
Biden was asked Thursday by Fox News why he would stash classified documents in his garage in Delaware. Biden responded the documents were in his “locked” garage with his Corvette.
“My Corvette’s in a locked garage, okay? So it’s not like they’re sitting out on the street,” he said.
The president claimed he would cooperate with the Justice Department to recover classified documents.
The documents were initially discovered on November 2nd, just six days before the midterm election
After discovering the documents Biden’s attorneys would turn them into the National Archives who would then hand over the documents to the DOJ who kept the matter silent until Monday.
President Trump noticed the strange timing of the documents being released and took to Truth Social to write: “Why didn’t the “Justice” Department announce the Highly Classified documents found in the Biden Office before the election?”
"Third Find of Biden Classified Documents Shows How Bad the Problem Is"
[...]
"Now, we mentioned another document found in the Biden residence in Wilmington. That’s a “third find” — that wasn’t found on December 20. That supposedly was just found, and the DOJ was just notified about it, on Jan. 12..."
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/01/12/third-find-of-biden-classified-documents-shows-how-bad-the-problem-is-n687584
Three, count 'em, THREE! Do I hear four?
325 classified records is about 30 times more than "roughly 10."
That bit of smugness from Sullum is not aging well.
Jacob sullumly swears he did.
That's nonsense. Trump's cache of secrets is mushroom shaped. Bidens cache may be mushroom shaped or not but the most important element is not its shape shifting nature but whether it's more a function of Bidens dementia.
Please discuss the full dimensions of the DeRptyDS
The only thing we know about the docs so far is what Biden’s lawyers are telling us. So clearly only the truth.
You're on a roll.
Is it not true that unlike Trump, as VP, Biden didn’t have the authority to declassify the documents before he “stashed” them?
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That’s they way I understand it.
At best, immaterial. That is, if Biden had the authority, so did Trump, if he didn't, Trump may still have the ability, but it's not the case that we raided Biden's home/office and not Trump's. Like raiding a pharmacist's place of work for cannabinoids and saying the guy farming weed in his back yard is exempt.
Fail
“Trump’s cache of secrets is mushroom shaped.”
And how the fuck do you know that, JFree. Do you want to share that with us?
So badly.
Even worse than usual.
His “boy-crush” comment was disgusting projection.
I see we are now engaging in the other Republican tactic: define a hyperbole as the new line of appropriate behavior.
Well, longest-serving Republican speaker of the house wasn't in a bed when he was fucking those kids, so what's the big deal?
Is there a Republican who wasn't outed as a gay sexual predator this week?
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Uh, was the shitbag not shown to be a steaming pile of shit today?
Did you have any support for your idiocy, shitbag?
Obviously not.
Fuck off and die
Just to be clear, you are ok with a kid diddling POTUS illegally keeping classified documents in an inadequately secured location?
If kids are mature enough to decide to swap genders then can you explain why they wouldn’t be mature enough to decide to have sex?
Of course i don’t think kids are mature enough to do either of those things, but I’d love to hear someone explain why a 14 yr old girl can decide to get her breasts removed cuz she is trans, but can’t decide on having sex? Again I don't think the 14 yr old is mature enough for either of those things.
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I think he may come to Reason only to see of there are articles on how to lower the vehicle registration fees for an ice cream truck.
Medical diagnoses, even spurious/fallacious ones are always funnier in CamelCase. AlWaYs.
Gaydolf Spitler usually is.
more then likely the only reason Biden's lawyers have come forward with this info now is because they were given the heads up that others were going to expose it.
Plus, the midterms are in the rear-view mirror, so there's no good reason to maintain the coverup.
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No I've always been opposed to Trump.
And then obviously Biden too, right? Or does Biden get a pass on these things because of his political affiliation?
You can bet the feds would be all over the case where a bar or club hosted a drag queen event with children and the next day it burned down.
Everybody knows damn well that would happen.Yet churches and pregnancy counseling centers have been vandalized and even burned.....so where are the arrests?
It’s entirely relevant that Trump could have declassified the documents, as per his authority, before legally taking them, while Biden could not.
Biden needs to prove that he had the authority to stash those documents. Trump doesn’t.
More classified documents have been found stashed by Biden.
Raid Biden’s homes.
Then ONLY for the ones stashed when he was president ALLOW him to say he declassified them, like Trump.