Prison Slavery Up for a Vote in 5 States
Plus: Federal court dismisses state challenge to student loan debt forgiveness, not all independent contractors want to be employees, and more...

Voters in Alabama, Louisiana, Oregon, Tennessee, and Vermont will be asked to consider whether their state constitutions permit slavery or indentured servitude for people convicted of crimes. "None of the proposals would force immediate changes inside the states' prisons, though they could lead to legal challenges related to how they use prison labor," points out the Associated Press, noting that nearly 20 state constitutions still permit slavery or indentured servitude as a punishment.
These statutes can be used to justify exploitative practices for prison labor, such as paying prisoners less than $1 per hour for their work or threatening them with a loss of privileges if they don't work.
But there's a move to change this. Since 2018, three states—Colorado, Nebraska, and Utah—used ballot measures to remove this language from their constitutions. (Some California lawmakers wanted a measure on their state's ballot, but the push for this failed in the state's Senate earlier this year.)
Now, voters in five more states will consider a similar change.
It's unclear, however, how much difference the measures in question would make. "The five states' bills do not make it clear whether paying an inmate a few cents per hour would qualify as slavery," notes The Washington Post. Nor do any measures get specific about what sort of labor practices inside prisons would not be permitted.
Tennessee state Sen. Raumesh Akbari told the A.P. that her state's ballot measure wouldn't prevent prison labor altogether but that it would help put an end to exploitative and unpaid labor. "We understand that those who are incarcerated cannot be forced to work without pay, but we should not create a situation where they won't be able to work at all," Akbari said. The Tennessee ballot measure states: "Slavery and involuntary servitude are forever prohibited. Nothing in this section shall prohibit an inmate from working when the inmate has been duly convicted of a crime."
"When I found out that this exception existed, I thought, 'We have got to fix this and we've got to fix this right away,'" Akbari said. "Our constitution should reflect the values and the beliefs of our state." #YesOn3 https://t.co/SWZoQlc48G
— Senator Raumesh Akbari (@SenAkbari) October 20, 2022
Oregon's measure asks voters whether to remove language permitting slavery and involuntary servitude as a punishment for crime while adding language explicitly stating that "an Oregon court or a probation or parole agency may order the convicted person to engage in education, counseling, treatment, community service or other alternatives to incarceration, as part of sentencing for the crime, in accordance with programs that have been in place historically or that may be developed in the future, to provide accountability, reformation, protection of society or rehabilitation."
Vermont's measure would remove exceptions to the prohibition on slavery and indentured servitude; it currently states that it's OK if "bound by a person's own consent" or "bound by law for the payment of debts, damages, fines, costs, or the like."
The Alabama measure—part of a larger revision of the state's constitution—would remove language that says "no form of slavery shall exist in this state; and there shall not be any involuntary servitude, otherwise than for the punishment of crime, of which the party shall have been duly convicted."
The most controversial of the upcoming ballot measures is the one in Louisiana, which some advocates say will backfire (even one of the original sponsors of the measure, Rep. Edmond Jordan, is now telling people to vote against it). From the A.P. article:
The nonprofit Council for a Better Louisiana warned that the wording could technically permit slavery again, as well as continue involuntary servitude.
Louisiana's Constitution now says: "Slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited, except in the latter case as punishment for a crime." The amendment would change that to: "Slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited, (but this) does not apply to the otherwise lawful administration of criminal justice."
"This amendment is an example of why it is so important to get the language right when presenting constitutional amendments to voters," the nonprofit group said in a statement urging voters to choose "No" and lawmakers to try again, pointing to Tennessee's ballot language as a possible template.
Supporters of the amendment say such criticisms are part of a campaign to keep exception clauses in place.
The state proposals are part of a larger push to do away with forced or exploitative labor as a criminal punishment—something expressly permitted by the U.S. Constitution.
"Slavery never ended. It evolved. It tricked us into thinking it doesn't exist. And right under our nose it's been right there. The 13th Amendment abolished slavery. #ExceptForMe." – @MrJohnnyPerez
Watch Johnny's story & take action to #EndTheException at https://t.co/Q0g4JYErj3 pic.twitter.com/VZBHqUNwJL
— Worth Rises (@WorthRises) September 5, 2022
The 13th Amendment says that the U.S. shall permit "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." The provision was used in former Confederate states to protect some form of slavery by criminalizing minor actions and targeting black people with enforcement.
FREE MINDS
A federal court has dismissed a lawsuit against Biden's student loan debt forgiveness program. Ilya Somin has more:
Earlier today, US District Judge Henry Autrey issued a decision dismissing a lawsuit filed by six states challenging the legality of President Biden's massive $400 billion loan forgiveness plan. The court dismissed the case based on the procedural doctrine of standing, which—among other things—requires plaintiffs to show the government policy they are challenging has caused them some sort of "injury." The standing ruling is based on very dubious reasoning, and I think it is highly likely to be overturned on appeal. Even if stands, the states have a pretty obvious way to get around it.
Standing is a genuine problem for efforts to challenge the loan forgiveness plan in court. But, like most other observers, I thought the state lawsuit could easily get over this hurdle because at least one of the plaintiff states—Missouri—has a state agency— the Higher Education Loan Authority of the State of Missouri (MOHELA)—that services student loans, including some that will be partially or fully forgiven by the Biden plan. The Biden loan forgiveness program will predictably reduce MOHELA's revenue from those loans, and even a small financial loss is enough to qualify for standing under Supreme Court precedent.
The judge didn't deny that MOHELA might be harmed by the loan debt forgiveness program. But he found that Missouri did not "establish it has standing to sue on MOHELA's behalf," even though MOHELA is a state agency.
Meanwhile, at the Supreme Court:
JUST IN: Amy Coney Barrett has swiftly denied a Wisconsin group's bid to block Biden's student-loan forgiveness plan. Barrett (who handles emergency requests from Wisconsin) acted on her own, without referring the case to the full court or seeking a response from the government. https://t.co/utBzg4AhAp
— SCOTUSblog (@SCOTUSblog) October 20, 2022
FREE MARKETS
Biden's new independent contractor proposal takes away worker options. The Biden administration's recent announcement regarding independent contractors has been misleadingly portrayed as something that all independent contractors want and will celebrate. For instance: "Biden wants to let gig workers be employees," a Washington Post story said, describing the Department of Labor's move as"mak[ing] it easier" for independent contractors to be classified as employees, thereby "granting them access to benefits and federal labor protections." But the proposed order doesn't just make it easier, notes Walter Olson at the Cato Institute—it forces this status upon them.
Not every gig worker or independent contractor wants to be a full employee. The designation may come with some additional labor protections and benefits, but it can also mean less flexibility, less ability to work additional gigs, and more workplace requirements. It could also mean unemployment, as some companies that rely on contractors cut positions (or close down) if they can't afford to hire them as employees.
"The proposed Labor Department regulation doesn't grant permission, it imposes a requirement," writes Olson. "It would force employee status on many workers who actively wish to remain independent contractors. Unless you grasp that, you're not going to grasp the mounting anger among many freelancers, independent truckers, and others whose livelihood is threatened by DOL's proposal to sharply restrict independent contracting in the workplace."
QUICK HITS
• Another very silly lawsuit over food labeling, this one alleging harm to consumers of Texas Pete hot sauce because it's made in North Carolina.
• The Rebellious Life of Mrs. Rosa Parks aims to tell the true story of the much-misunderstood civil rights hero.
• Marijuana is coming to Florida gas stations.
• Reason's Zach Weissmueller talks to Justin Amash:
• Pictures in The Guardian show what pregnancy looks like before 10 weeks.
• In Europe, a seasonal rise in COVID cases has begun.
• The Pentagon will pay for employee travel for abortions, the agency announced Thursday.
• "Former President Donald J. Trump is claiming that nine documents seized by the F.B.I. from his Florida residence are his personal property—but the Justice Department says they are official records that should be deposited with the National Archives," reports The New York Times.
• "A jury sided with Kevin Spacey on Thursday in one of the lawsuits that derailed the film star's career, finding he did not sexually abuse Anthony Rapp, then 14, while both were relatively unknown actors in Broadway plays in 1986," reports the A.P. "The verdict in the civil trial came with lightning speed. Jurors at a federal court in New York deliberated for a little more than an hour before deciding that Rapp hadn't proven his allegations."
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Voters in Alabama, Louisiana, Oregon, Tennessee, and Vermont will be asked to consider whether their state constitutions permit slavery or indentured servitude for people convicted of crimes.
[The Vice President has left the chat.]
When voter suppression becomes voter oppression.
It’s only slavery if you have the right skin color.
Or aren't pregnant.
It is interesting that ENB seemingly doesn’t consider owning someone to stay in shape, do laundry, and keep a tidy cell as slavery, but owning a person to do a job that is no-shit productive outside one’s own subsistence and in offset of the cost of feeding and housing them is slavery.
Yeah, I would say that any imprisonment is "involuntary servitude". That's why the 13th excepted it.
This is an absurd idea they're pushing. It amounts to saying these prisoners should only be allowed to sit on their hands all day, so ultimately they need to ask themselves if prison is a punishment or if they're trying to 'rehabilitate' prisoners.
Frankly, a large percentage of prisoners are repeat offenders and outright criminals and the only legitimate work they've ever done was for the prison system.
The idea that prison is some form of social rehabilitation is almost farcical, but then again criminal justice reform might make that point a little clearer since just about everyone is a criminal these days.
You can’t rehabilitate malignant psychopaths with strong violent impulses. You can only kill or contain them. How is that not obvious to everyone?
Reason’s devotion to emptytheprisons has provided some pretty stupid arguments, with prison labor = slavery being near the top.
Biden wants to let gig workers be employees
Idiot. Nothing stopping them now.
Biden wants to force gig workers be employees
Fixed.
Wait, I thought they were slaves.
"let" == "force"
Being an employee is a FAR worse deal than being an independent contractor.
But the worker ant is the foundation of the colony!
One more fix.
Biden wants to force gig workers be
employeesdues paying union membersHe’s “A Union Guy” as he’s proudly boasted.
"Pictures in The Guardian show what pregnancy looks like before 10 weeks."
Same thing it looks like at 8.5 months — literally just a clump of cells.
#LibertariansForThirdTrimesterAbortion
It's just a parasite until it passes through the magical birth canal.
And for the next 18+ years as well.
+1 Nice
Damn child labor laws.
Almost like an illegal immigrant. And we know how much the left hates them.
If you can pass an adult backwards through the magical canal, would it be ok to abort it? Just a hypothetical.
Shouldn't anyone staying longer then 30 days get renters rights? If I let someone stay more then 30 days on my property in my state I'm screwed if they decide not to leave.
4th trimester abortions. In case you don’t like the hair color or something.
Or to cure inflation, according to Queen Stacy
100 trimester in case they come out as a complete POS.
240th trimester for Biden.
I’m just getting sick of the midterm abortions!
... as opposed to a person endowed with individual rights. All persons born in 14A is a lot like the US border. It is an unequivocal dividing line between two clearly discernible alternatives. One is where you invite the political state to stick its long arm into a woman's privates, and another is where the 9th, 13th and 14th Amendments recognize women and men alike as legal persons with inalienable individual rights. The appeal to hard cases is the appeal to bad law.
Do you eat the fetuses or sell them for parts?
Both. Then he uses the proceeds to buy black market videos from Kermit Gosnell’s private collection. For his spank bank.
Consequences can be so annoying.
That article is 100% bullshit. Here is what human development actually looks like:
https://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/images/e/e5/Human_Carnegie_stage_1-23.jpg
Marxists always have to lie to get people to join their side.
It was a flat out fucking lie. They showed a petri dish with a culture of various gestational sacs.
You can culture gestational sac cells on a petri dish, but that's not what gestational sacs look like, and you sure as fuck can't grow an embryo on one.
And not one single picture showed an embryo. The article claimed that you can't even see an embryo at 9 weeks which is a total fucking lie.
What the Guardian (and ENB) is doing here is like showing a culture of skin cells in a dish and saying "This is what is a human looks like at twenty".
Pure gaslighting.
ENB is pushing something dishonest because it fits her narrative? Well I never.
People who don't want to be pregnant should also learn "I never".
Not just bullshit. Evil.
They meticulously state 'gestational sacs' and then state a flat out lie that you can't see an embryo at 9 weeks. They even go on to talk about the bloodless sacs presented in the petri dishes as though they were actual, viable, removed embryos/embryonic sacs. Even further, they only go to 10 weeks. Not the 12 or 15 or 18 weeks that are widely agreed upon as the limit and previously argued against by them and their advocates. They do all of this so they can support the idea that they're not killing people and/or saving women's lives.
They aren't using the eggs/omelette argument in the abstract, "some people have to lose their freedom or livelihood for the good of society" sense. They are literally trying to show you eggshells as justification for killing people.
They are lying to you so they can kill people.
Like I said below, it's the same type of argument used to justify enslavement of negroes and a whole host of other atrocities: "They're not human, so it's fine."
It is very very small at that point, so it can be hard to see.
The article says you can't see an embryo at 9 weeks without a microscope, but the average size is approx. 1 to 2 inches.
It might be hard to spot on a blurry sonogram if you don't know what you're looking for, but you sure as fuck can see one without a microscope.
This is not a good argument for abortion.
During slavery and Jim Crow, "scientific" evidence was frequently used to demonstrate how black slaves were not human:
"Taxonomists and geneticists believe that negros should be classified as different species. In fact, Darwin declared in The Descent of Man that the negros are so distinct that similar differences found in any other animal would warrant their classification as a different species."
https://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/letters/2012/apes.htm
Darwin wrote that?! YIKES!! Hopefully his views evolved further…
Speciation is a very complex subject that evolutionary biologist continue to debate to this day. Sometimes, simply being geographically separated and slightly different phenology is enough to separate populations as separate species, even if genetically there are only minimal or no differences. This remains controversial, as if the geographic separation is removed, they can produce viable offspring. One of the classical examples is mule deer and blacktail deer, are they separate species or are they sub-populations. Roosevelt Elk and Rocky Mountain Elk and the extinct Eastern Elk and Merriam's Elk is another example. I could go on, because the debate exists in more examples than can be provided for here. In modernity, the geographic isolation has been removed largely in the case of humans, but Darwin's take (if he wasn't speaking about humans) would remain a valid argument to this day. Since he was speaking about humans are sensibilities are offended (and rightly so), but on the other hand science isn't about morals. One other consideration to consider is interbreeding with other hominids. Those of European and Asian Descent have a higher percentage of other hominid DNA than Africans do (almost none in Sub Saharan Africa) which if it wasn't humans we were speaking of would be a further argument for speciation. Also, even if this view remained popular today, that doesn't make any argument for values. Note, because some idiots will take this out of context, I'm not arguing that we are different species, just that Darwin's statement isn't automatically abhorrent. From a morally view it is good it's rejected but scientifically speciation is a very complex and debated subject. It isn't right to assume Darwin's statement was made from the stance of racism, especially as genetics wouldn't be discovered for several decades after his death, and how genetics are passed down for a century. And despite our far better understanding of genetics, we still debate what exactly is a species. Again, I'm not arguing that African and Europeans are different species. Or even saying it's debatable, because morally it's reprehensible.
Prison Slavery Up for a Vote in 5 States
Kamala hit hardest
In Europe, a seasonal rise in COVID cases has begun.
So now it’s seasonal.
Don't worry, the authoritarianism will still be year-round.
Like yard decorations.
Well, I’m not going to take the Christmas lights and blow up Santa down NOW!!
they are about to find out people care a lot about freezing to death and almost not at all about a virus that has a <<1% mortality
2 abortion stories = 🙂
0 DeSantis stories = 🙁
Was this the same count as yesterday? Anyway I'm glad ENB consistently meets her abortion quota but I'd like to see more attacks on Koch / Reason libertarianism's least favorite governor. Need to tear down DeSantis to boost Liz Cheney.
#LizCheney2024
I’m told this isn’t really journalism, just topics to discuss over coffee.
DeSantis
You mean DeathSantis, right?
This Grabber Of Pussy could be making money with my unpatented tears-harvesting frisbee-on-a-chilled mug. Moaning, unlike money, is not an American value.
With the prospect of free prison labor on the ballot, the Koch position will go from empty the prisons to fill the prisons.
The provision was used in former Confederate states to protect some form of slavery by criminalizing minor actions and targeting black people with enforcement.
Yeah, just in Confederate states and nowhere else ever not even once.
Don't you know that slavery was invented in the southern US by white men?
Don't you dare mention it started on the east coast and was only done away with once the east coast stole the industrial revolution from Britain. Or how much the east coast profited off reconstruction, either.
It was totes all about human rights, nothing to see there.
Not that any of that should be taken to mean that the nasty practice shouldn't have ended, merely that the preening over ending it glosses over a lot of actual history.
A federal court has dismissed a lawsuit against Biden's student loan debt forgiveness program.
Speaking of slavery....
Or is that anti-slavery?
Considering that most student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy absent a very difficult showing, I'd say it moreso resembles indentured servitude. The state doesn't own me, but it holds a lien against everything I have, including my productive labor.
Frye:
"You know what's the worst part about being a slave? They make you work all day, but don't pay you or let you go"
Just like jury duty.
The Tax Cut Cult May Be Coming to an End
All this said, the tax cut zombie was on its last legs in the U.S. even before all this happened. The GOP’s turn toward Trumpism has the party far more focused on waging culture war or simply suppressing the vote. Republican politicians aren’t really running on tax cuts anymore, because taxes have been cut to such an extent, especially for the poor and the middle classes, that tax cuts just aren’t as popular. So even before Truss’ downfall, the tax cut zombie was already almost dead.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/21/liz-truss-tax-cut-00062854
Trumpism - all about culture wars, abortion, and trannies.
Yeah, nobody wants their tax burden cut.
"simply suppressing the vote."
Georgia's had record turnout, but don't let facts get in your way now.
I voted yesterday in Georgia.
The "Whites Only" line was very short. Took me less than three minutes.
Which was a prouder moment for you — the first time you voted for Stacey Abrams, or the second?
I was in the Brian Kemp line.
I had to amend my pre-filled in ballot to vote against the brain-damaged footballer though.
Yup, can't have a black man leaving the plantation, can we?
"Only twice?" - Chicago
If you identify as they/them do you get multiple ballots?
underrated comment^
That sounds needlessly complicated.
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. The link below details all the evidence surrounding that ban. A decent person would honor that ban and stay away from Reason. Instead you keep showing up, acting as if all people should just be ok with a kiddy-porn-posting asshole hanging around. Since I cannot get you to stay away, the only thing I can do is post this boilerplate.
https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635836
Don't respond to SPB, just shun him.
suppressing the vote
Fuck that. Dead people have just as much a right to vote as anyone else.
Not allowing people wearing "Vote Hillary" t-shirts to handout water is
almost as bad asidentical toWORSE THAN Jim Crow!!!1!!1!!!Yep, rather than reducing government coercion and thereby increasing the rights of individuals. Never vote for girl-bullying prohibitionist pigs.
girl-bullying prohibitionist pigs.”
They prefer to be called “transgender”, you old dinosaur. Calling them otherwise is regressive and transphobic.
Never vote for girl-bullying prohibitionist pigs.
You talking about the Green Goblin Gang?
Yes, if it's one thing leftists hate, it's when the right challenges them in the culture war. You don't have to restate what's been perfectly obvious for a few years now.
You were banned from this website for posting links to kiddie porn.
"Trumpism – all about culture wars, abortion, and trannies."
Good thing that Democrats are above those crass issues.
One of the Trump's first moves in office was to get massive tax cut passed on individual and corporate tax. The corporate tax went from 35 to 20% and the economy boomed.
This "article" on politico is, as always, moronic.
It takes two major parties to perpetuate the stupid culture wars. The stupid culture wars cannot all be blamed on Republicans alone.
It is the left pushing culture wars. Blaming the people trying to stop the war equallu is fucking idiotic. The left has been doing it for decades.
That's bullshit. It only takes one "Aggressor" to start a war. Or are you blaming Poland for being invaded? Perhaps if they'd just not been there, World War 2 would never have happened.
A federal court has dismissed a lawsuit against Biden's student loan debt forgiveness program.
No one has standing because they're just going to print the money.
"Your Honor, Missouri was not harmed because the administration intends to bail out all of the state budgets later this year."
Are you joking? Or serious? Because that can actually happen, and very well might.
I'm increasingly moved towards the wisdom of Congress just impeaching and convicting the president any time they sneeze weird.
Another very silly lawsuit over food labeling, this one alleging harm to consumers of Texas Pete hot sauce because it's made in North Carolina.
It's lawsuits like this that led to the demise of the Eskimo Pie.
I have always questioned the efficacy of lucky charms.
I bought a Milky Way and there wasn’t a single damn star in it.
I've had 3 Musketeers in my mouth and it didn't taste like chocolate...
Pic?
There's video on PornHub.
We’re you up in arms about it?
That made me snicker!
You should sue.
I blame the Quakers for Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben.
Aunt Jemima was renamed to Pearl Milling, which is ironically the woman who owned her in the first place.
Regarding the latter, they are certainly ricist.
I've always wondered if the cake is made from Zebra or a Zebra baked it.
What if my religion prohibits zebras?
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/149/304.html
We live in a country where the supreme court of the land rules on whether or not tomato is a vegetable.
Pete is from Texas. It's "Texas Pete's Hotsauce" not "Pete's Texas Hotsauce".
The Kentucky Fried Chicken I got was clearly deep fried in the back of the store here, not in Kentucky.
There might be a colonel of truth there!
Anyone remember Italian Ice Cream Bars? Man I missed those. Being surrounded by adults wearing hideous 70s fashion was worth it!!
Taylor Swift Will “Do Everything I Can” to End Donald Trump’s Autocracy
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/08/taylor-swift-donald-trump-autocracy-gaslighting
When you lose Tay-Tay you've lost the beating heart of America.
Fans Not Happy With Al Michaels' Taylor Swift Comment
https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/fans-not-happy-with-al-michaels-taylor-swift-comment
Taylor Swift Will “Do Everything I Can” to End Donald Trump’s Autocracy
The regime that's holding political prisoners and disappearing journalists and trying to start a nuclear war can be described as many things, but Donald Trump's Autocracy isn't one of them.
Dude, if you have the IQ of a typical Taylor Swift fan then everything bad in the universe is Donald Trump's fault.
More truthfully, if you're stupid enough to be a taylor swift fan, you are likely the cause of many of the problems in the world.
Wow! Thanks for this timely and relevant article from 2019!
Keep doing #DefendBidenAtAllCosts Category A: change the subject (to Trump) Mr. Buttplug. Anything to help Democrats secure #BlueWave2022.
Sleepy Joe is boring. You know that.
The Swiftie vs Trump Nazi Incel war (when the latter discovered she wasn’t their Aryan Dreamgirl after all) was FUN.
I miss good controversy.
I wish AOC and Lauren Boebert would get into a good hair-pulling catfight on the steps of the Capitol.
Speaking of controversy, it caused quite the controversy that day you posted links to child pornography, were banned, and all of your posts were deleted.
Sleepy Joe is out there arresting pro life advocates and going after parents who show up at school board meetings. His administration is far and away the most authoritarian and lawless since Wilson, another racist piece of shit Democratic hero of yours.
But he HAS TO do those things to fight the Fascists! Cmon man!
"going after parents who show up at school board meetings"
There was an FBI memo, which was widely criticized when it came to light. Did it result in any actual "going after parents" occurring?
That memo was the AG DOJ directing the FBI to, among other things, “open dedicated lines of communication for threat reporting, assessment, and response.” Nothing chilling about that at all.
Then there is this
On October 4, 2021, in response to a request from the National School Boards Association that the federal government use counterterrorism tools, including the Patriot Act, to target parents at school board meetings, you issued a memorandum directing the FBI to address these threats. The press release accompanying your memorandum highlighted the FBI’s National Threat operations Center to serve as a snitch-line for tips about parents at school board meetings. By October 20, the FBI had operationalized your directive. In an FBI-wide email, the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division and Criminal Division announced the creation of a new threat tag—EDUOFFICIALS—and directed all FBI personnel to apply it to school board-related threats.
In one investigation begun following your directive, the FBI’s Field Office interviewed a mom for allegedly telling a local school board “we are coming for you.” The complaint, which came into the FBI through the National Threat Operations Center snitch-line, alleged that the mom was a threat because she belonged to a “right wing mom’s group” known as “Moms for Liberty” and because she “is a gun owner.” When an FBI agent interviewed the mom, she told the agent that she was upset about the school board’s mask mandates and that her statement was a warning that her organization would seek to replace the school board with new members through the electoral process.
The FBI’s Field Office opened an investigation, subsequent to your (AG Garland) directive, into a dad opposed to mask mandates. The complaint came in through the National Threat Operations Center snitch-line and alleged that the dad “fit the profile of an insurrectionist” because he “rails against the government,” “believes all conspiracy theories,” and “has a lot of guns and threatens to use them.” When an FBI agent interviewed the complainant, the complainant admitted they had “no specific information or observations of . . . any crimes or threats,” but they contacted the FBI after learning the Justice Department had a website “to submit tips to the FBI in regards to any concerning behavior directed toward school boards.”
In another case initiated after your directive, the FBI’s Field Office opened an investigation into Republican state elected officials over allegations from a state Democratic party official that the Republicans “incited violence” by expressing public displeasure with school districts’ vaccine mandates. This complaint also came into the FBI through the National Threat Operations Center snitch-line.
https://republicans-judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/2022-05-11-JDJ-MJ-to-Garland-re-threat-tags_Redacted.pdf
That is all from sworn testimony given to Congress. It was written back in May and neither the FBI nor DOJ has denied any of it occurring.
Sorry, but it wasn't just a memo. It was a coordinated campaign of harassment and intimidation. Stop trying to defend it Mike. There is no defending it.
I haven’t defended it. You are trying to put words in my mouth, because that’s what you do.
This is meta. First he denies the FBI targeted anyone, then he denies denying it.
I guess denial is directive one on his process flowchart.
Bring up the topic in a couple weeks and Mike Liarson will play ignorant to this information again. Because it’s all been presented to him before.
One of the main tactics of sea lions.
Yes you ignorant fuck. Thisnhas been posted here multiple fucking times sea lion.
Man, I would not want to fight AOC. If she gets close enough to lock down with those chompers, you're done.
"I wish AOC and Lauren Boebert would get into a good hair-pulling catfight on the steps of the Capitol."
Who doesn't?
"Michaels is basically insinuating that Swift's music is only for teenage girls."
WTF?
I'm a non-binary person in my 20s and I find lyrics like "we are never ever ever getting back together" amazingly insightful.
Al Michaels is a paternalistic douchebag. Now we're getting somewhere.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a slimy pile of TDS-addled shit, a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Taylor could try voting Libertarian and donating to NARAL.
THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY PLATFORM OF THE 1970S LED DIRECTLY TO THE ROE V WADE DECISION
DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT
NOT SURE IF I MENTIONED IT BEFORE
It may be hard to tell just by looking at her, but it turns out Taylor Swift will do things just for money or even just to be popular.
Like ENB?
No, it's pretty easy to tell by looking at ENB.
I'm actually kind of curious to see what the sales are going to be like on this one. She's one of the few pop singers left who can consistently move platinum record sales, but she's topped out at 3 million since "1989" came out. Her Late Millennial/Zoomer audience seems to be aging out of her stuff, and isn't snapping it up like they did during that ten-year period when she could hit 5 million in sales without breaking a sweat.
She'll probably end up like the Who and Stones did, where they made a mint for about 30 years after their heyday touring for Boomers as that demographic aged from 30-somethings to Social Security, but didn't release much of anything after 1980. I wouldn't be surprised if this is her last major release for a while, especially if she ends up getting married.
Fans Not Happy With Al Michaels’ Taylor Swift Comment
This is the dumbest timeline
"This is the dumbest timeline"
*checks recent articles*
*sees tons of 'journalism' about 'Ye' West's manic Jew/Abortion rant*
Affirmative
Her new album dropped last midnight, and this is what you post?
It's Buttplug. What did you expect, a detailed analysis, a proper critique? Buttplug is nowhere near that smart or witty. One might say Buttplug's mind fits like a glove into a rectal compartment.
Prison slavery is a terrible thing unless it is Chinese Uyghurs who are enslaved to make sacred solar panels. Then it is totally okay.
And iPhones
What about Nikes?
It depends on whether the subject is evil corporations (it's terrible) or NBA players (it's fine).
Solar powered Nike branded iPhones.
And $300 dollar bar stools because we can’t make those in our country
The 13th Amendment says that the U.S. shall permit "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted."
Just imagine if there were an amendment taking the income or products of people's labor involuntarily, or against their will, even if they *hadn't* committed a crime!
That is why they had to amend the constitution to do it. Meanwhile, the 13th Amendment is still valid as written and prison slave labor is allowed.
Most prisoners want a job. Which is more cruel; letting them get out and do something productive or locking them in a cage 24 hours a day? Of all the stupid things to complain about, prison labor is about the top of it. If you are going to insist that prisoners be paid the prevailing wages of free men, then there will not be any prison labor and they will all spend their lives locked in cages victimizing each other. That doesn't sound like a very reasonable or good thing to me.
What they need is to unionize!
With local cells!
Imagine , if you a well a country with an amendment that protects due process yet rounded up every citizen of japenese descent and put them in a concentration camp under suspciion of collaboratingwith the enemy and the supreme couort upheld it as "constitutional"
How crazy would that be?
Imagine having an amendment that gives the feds power instead of limiting it. That's crazy! Imagine , for instance, if america voted to give the feds power to them in jail for drinking wine! crazy
I find quoting that directly after saying the 13th Amendment bans prison labor to be confusing. I'm really confused by that article in general and I really am bothered by calling it slave labor. That feels so disingenuous, and it just makes me sad.
I honestly think that the logical conclusion to a lot of this is just abolish prisons entirely, but reinstate the death penalty. If somethings not serious enough for the death penalty, then make it a fine or make it not a crime.
I have not thought this position through though. I will admit tha.t
And if you don't pay the fine, what then? Here in America, you get prison time.
[Begins posting obligatory link to "That sounds like slavery with extra steps involved." meme and pauses...]
Wait, calling taking from people in prison or who broke laws slavery sounds unduly harsh but being more critical of taking from more people who aren't in prison and didn't break any laws only confuses you more?
"We understand that those who are incarcerated cannot be forced to work without pay, but we should not create a situation where they won't be able to work at all," Akbari said.
What about the goal of eliminating work as a requirement for pay--for everyone?
"Not every gig worker or independent contractor wants to be a full employee."
And not every working age American wants to be an any time employee. What is Biden doing for them?
Incarcerated people should have the option of working and getting paid minimum wage.
Or not working and getting minimum life support.
Their work gives them something to do and subsidizes their room/board.
I guess you weren't informed, but its actually not a day spa, and they aren't there because they wandered in.
U.S. budget deficit cut in half for biggest decrease ever amid Covid spending declines
The shortfall hit a record $3.13 trillion in 2020 due to more than $5 trillion in CARES Act and other spending. In 2019, the deficit was $983.6 billion. Prior to 2020, the highest deficit ever was $1.41 trillion 2009 as the financial crisis came to a close. The U.S. briefly ran a surplus from 1998-2001.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/21/us-budget-deficit-cut-in-half-for-biggest-decrease-ever-amid-covid-spending-declines.html
Boom!
More talking points I'll recite next time I hear my middle aged family members and coworkers complain their portfolios are doing worse under Biden than under Trump (as almost everything they buy gets more expensive).
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
#BestEconomyEver
The numbers don't lie. Fatass Donnie's fiscal record was shit.
King of Debt? He didn't lie about that.
Who wrote the CARES act, Pluggo? Who pushed it through congress?
I'm confused about how this isn't a metaphorical brain dead trophy wife patting herself on the back for only spending $5K of somebody else's money when she planned to spend $10K.
Nuclear power industry has a Russia problem
Russia has a monopoly over the fuel rods needed for smaller nuclear power plants
I guess that bribe they paid to Hillary for access to all of that Canadian uranium is really starting to pay off.
thank god! An excuse not to use nuclear AND we can blame Russia more? Its win win!
Oh does that excuse letting existing plants go unmaintained to please the environazis? Asking for a continent that is about to have an energy shortage...
Like in all good religions, suffering is required for salvation.
No surprise I guess that no one seems to give a damn about or understand the issue. Russia - the state - has a monopoly over the production of the only type of fuel rod (HALEU) that can be used in the new generation of nuclear power plants. The 'solution' here is that the US - the state - will contract to produce those fuel rods.
While apparently no one seems to give a damn that regardless of who has the monopoly, this energy source - esp beloved by 'free market libertarians' - will be dependent on THE STATE for its fuel supply. WTF.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2022/10/20/top-democrat-admits-all-of-us-knew-their-partys-policies-would-cause-inflation-n1638723
Top Democrat admits "all of us knew our policies were going to cause inflation". So much for the "things just happened" defense.
Pictures in The Guardian show what pregnancy looks like before 10 weeks.
You do realize the reason we think people making the omelette/egg argument should have zero input on abortion policy has nothing do with omelettes, right?
If what a pregnancy looks like before 10 weeks is relevant to the issue, and I am willing to admit it could be, then what a pregnancy looks like at 25 weeks or 35 weeks is also relevant. I don't think that is a road the pro death side wants to go down. Just saying.
Nobody starts off the presentation pitch of their 5 yr. plan with "Let's kill 10M Jews."
Actually they did. If you watch the clips of the Eichman trial, Eichman was at the Walensee conference. He took the notes and then left them behind. They were later found and are the only reason why know it happened. The interesting thing about Eichman’s testimony about the conference is he gives his defense about how it was his duty to follow orders but he never says he was surprised. Here is a guy who was an early enough and committed enough member of the party to get into the SS and be given an important job wiping out the Jews and he wasn’t surprised when Himmler got up and said “okay we have conquered most of Europe like we planned and now we are going to murder all of the Jews”. You would think that Eichman would have at least been surprised that they wanted to do this even if he was willing to follow orders. Nope, he never says he was surprised at all.
It is basically the dog that didn’t bark. He wasn’t surprised because as a long time member of the party, he knew that was the plan all along. His response was “okay, we are now going to that part of the plan, roger that”. The Nazis at least among themselves I think were pretty clear about murdering all of the Jews being part of the plan and one of the primary aims of the war.
Nuh uh.
— Misek
One of the many bizarre things about Holocaust deniers is that they tried and hanged a significant number of people for crimes they committed during the Holocaust. All of them were given formal trials and competent, enthusiastic defense counsel. Eichmann most of all. Yet, not a single one ever used the defense of "this didn't happen". All of them claimed they either were not really involved or had no choice but to follow orders.
I would love to summon Eichmann back from hell and put him in a room with a few Holocaust deniers of today. He would laugh in their faces. Eichmann not only was a key player, was proud of it. There is an interview of him done before the Israelis got him where he talks about how proud of it he was. He wasn't just some little bureaucrat following orders. He was a fanatical believer and frankly an intellectual. He honestly believed that murdering all of the Jews was how to save Germany. He believed that so much that even when the arch devil himself, Himmler, ordered him to stop deporting Jews from Hungary to the death camps because the war was over and it was pointless, Mr. "I just followed my orders" disobeyed the order and kept doing it because even though the war was lost, he wanted to kill as many Jews as possible before it was over.
He was proud of that. And at his trial, he claimed just to be following orders but he never denied it happened. You would think a loyal German and a loyal Nazi on trial for his life would have at least claimed the Holocaust didn't happen and was just a slander against Germany during his trial had that actually been the case.
It’s like a cult.
It really is. It is such a strange thing to believe. I don't really understand why anyone who wasn't involved and just looking to avoid facing the truth of what they did, would go to such lengths to believe such a thing.
They deny it happened because they think it was a good thing but realize they can't just come out and say that. Scratch a holocaust denier, and they bleed anti-Semitism.
Scratch a holocaust denier, and they bleed anti-Semitism.
I’d go 99.99%. Sometimes you come across an autistic sociopath who’s just focused on the mismatched thermodynamics required to incinerate that many bodies or whatever. They don’t deny that Jews were killed or even necessarily conceptualize social abstractions like genocide or Jewish cabals, they just know that kJ in must equal kJ out and, for some reason, they don’t. The Jews and genocide are just pieces and the picture on their 200 piece jigsaw puzzle.
You don’t even have to scratch Herr Misek to find the anti-Semite…but I’d love to see someone with real claws do it anyway…
Actually they did.
You misunderstand. Internally, sure. You have to disclose your goals in order to operate. But the elevator pitch to get outsiders to ship gold starts off with plans to unify Germany and return the Reich to its previous, and unending, prosperity per, "okay we have conquered most of Europe like we planned and now we are going to murder all of the Jews"
https://pjmedia.com/uncategorized/jeff-reynolds/2022/10/20/former-pjtv-filmmaker-investigated-by-fbi-as-domestic-terrorist-for-j6-documentary-n1636605
Biden's FBI is investigating filmmaker as "a domestic terrorist". Democrats are not making the country into a police state or anything. Nope. It was Trump who was the "authoritarian".
Wait for the Ken Burns version.
Biden has turned out to be everything that I was warned Trump would be, including the meanness.
But with none of the humor or competence. Biden makes you nostalgic for the days of Obama and Carter. It is just staggering how incompetent, vicious, and authoritarian this administration is.
Iron Law of Woke Projection
“You see, the 1st amendment doesn’t technically protect you from the FBI” in 3, 2, 1 …
Reason Rundown
Chemjeff rages
New Trafalgar Group survey of likely voters finds nearly 80 percent of Americans — including 53 percent of Democrats — think it should be illegal to administer puberty blocking drugs to minors.
I'm sure that Reason will be as eager to report this poll as the rest of the establishment press.
Has ENB been informed of this overwhelming consensus?!
Consensus only matters when it supports Marxist causes.
Elizabeth Nolan Brown informed us yesterday that this position is "extremist". I guess 80% of America including a majority of Democrats are now "extremists". Oh dear.
Without the data demonstrating a long-standing stable public opinion on administering puberty blockers to minors, how is she supposed to know otherwise?
She knows otherwise. She is just a hack repeating the talking points.
Maybe you weren't around for the breathless proclamation about a longstanding popular support for abortion shortly before Dobbs?
The default libertarian position is basically everyone is an extremist but me.
Which I'm open to, I hate arguments from numbers. I just don't think it's an extremist position.
It's no coincidence that just about everyone would label a person who routinely gets abortions, or gets one for spurious reasons, as a fucking monster even if they otherwise support abortion.
People recognize the utility of limited abortion, but also recognize the immorality of abortion.
In short, they'll have one hell of an uphill battle to destigmatize abortion because everyone recognizes that it's the ending of a life on at least some basic level. Those who don't are almost certainly sociopaths or shallow thinkers, possibly both.
As if what a majority of voters want matters.
And in the case of child care, only union teachers and related political operatives should get a vote.
Reason Rundown
Aspen newspapers are finally covering candidate blackmail story — with a pillow
Not to distract from the substance of the story but I’m thoroughly convinced that Reason needs to hire a better class of bad writers:
I suppose the statement ‘cheating on your wife is OK as long as you don’t give it to your mistress in her rented storage unit’ is, uh, true.
Assessing writing for quality is racist.
"Biden's new independent contractor proposal takes away worker options."
The democrats hate individual freedoms?
Well what a shock!
There are no people, only factions.
Why does Reason hate the US Constitution?
Reason Rundown
The big "R" in "Republican" is for "retards"
Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy hints GOP won't impeach administration officials - because Democrats used it against Trump for purely political purposes
I think that is the smart play. Until Democrats turn against these animals, you are never going to remove them from office. So why try? It just allows them to pretend to be victims and makes the public think the Republicans are more interested in settling scores than governing the country.
I think they are better off investigating the living shit out the Biden Administration and using the power of the purse to control it. For example, don't impeach Garland, put a rider on the next DOJ funding bill that says "no funds shall be expended to enforce the FACE act or pursue any ongoing prosecutions under that act. That would stop Garland's reign of terror over pro life groups in its tracks. Bring the sorry bastard up to testify every single day. Make him and the DHS heads an albatross around the Democrats' necks. Do it right and it will be the Democrats wanting to impeach them.
Yeah, I can see that. As much as I wish there would be more impeachment and removal, I also don't like how it's becoming something of an act of showmanship.
Are you saying Mayorkas and Garland didn't break any laws? Fuck McCarthy and Fuck McConnell. The democrats are passing extremely harmful legislation with a slim majority in the house , a tie in the senate and whatever Biden's handlers tell him to EO. But it's just too unladylike to impeach. Biden should be impeached weekly he's such a scumbag and the democrats (and many republicans) need their faces smeared in his shit.
Of course they did. The deserve to be impeached. The fact is they are not going to be convicted of anything until Democrats agree to do so. Why why waste your time with an impeachment trial you know you have no chance of winning?
No matter what they do they will be wasting time. Any legislation will be vetoed. They will now be blamed for everything gone wrong including the last two years. What will they do besides making sure Trump is gone and maybe DeSantis too? Maybe keep the Jan 6 committee going? They've got nothing better to do than dredge up all the shit Biden was involved in from his vice presidency until now and lay it before the public.
I don't care if they're impeached or not, I want them in fucking prison.
Reason Rundown
‘Implicit Bias’ Training Cost Me My Nursing Job
"States are forcing medical professionals to make false confessions of racism. I refused to go along."
This is impossible. Chemjeff swore CRT was just teaching about slavery in schools.
Tony has also stated numerous times "who cares what's going on in niche liberal arts colleges?"
It's not happening and it's good for us. So shut up and sign the confession.
Firing every nurse and doctor who refuses to participate in self criticism sessions should do wonders for the cost and accessibility of health care in this country. Smart thinking there ChemJeff and Laurson and the rest of the leftist trolls on this board.
Firing every nurse and doctor who refuses to participate in self criticism sessions should do wonders for the cost and accessibility of health care in this country.
Between CRT and vax mandates, you almost get the impression that Ellis Wyat could’ve just waited and his antagonists would’ve set fire to the rigs themselves and then nationalized the ashes.
The ones left behind will form the corps of the new national health system.
Sure, what do I have to do with nurses and doctors being fired for refusing to participate in self-criticism sessions?
For the record, I am opposed to the self-criticism sessions and any firings that might result from refusing to participate.
You are opposed to them but not enough to stop shilling for leftists who are imposing them.
Please link to an example of my doing that.
Caw caw!
https://reason.com/2022/10/21/prison-slavery-up-for-a-vote-in-5-states/?comments=true#comment-9756693
For the record, I am opposed to the self-criticism sessions and any firings that might result from refusing to participate.
Note he addresses "the record" instead of leftists / Democrats.
That's because his goal is not being criticized for CRT. If he actually opposed CRT he would address leftists / Democrats directly. Not only has he literally never expressed opposition directly to leftists / Democrats his only position on CRT has been to deny it exists except as theoretical research. His consistent position is that because it doesn't exist operationally those opposing it are extremists / conspiracy theorists. Yet by asserting his opposition here he implicitly admits CRT exists in direct conflict to those prior assertions.
Naturally he doesn't care that this newly discovered opposition conflicts with his expressed principles because he's only here to attack the right and defend the left.
“Firing every nurse and doctor who refuses to participate in self criticism sessions should do wonders for the cost and accessibility of health care in this country.”
Why, yes. See the movie “To Live” for an example of how well that worked under Mao!
Haha. Well, you’re gonna love “subconscious bias”! It was used to settle a civil case over a car accident here in WA.
If they were deliberately trying to segregate people they would be doing nothing different from what they’re doing now.
"The Pentagon will pay for employee travel for abortions, the agency announced Thursday."
I'm sure that will immediately solve ALL their recruiting, retention, and readiness problems.
Short term, it does make your honeypots easier to operate but, longer term, you wind up just getting fucked.
SNAFU - Emergency abortions for intelligence operatives.
The solution to that problem is to just use a those transwomen who are flooding through the doors at recruiting stations.
They might need to upgrade the beer goggles.
Reason Rundown
Pence warns of ‘unprincipled populists,’ and ‘Putin apologists’
I’ll take unprincipled populists every day of the week and twice on Sundays over warmongering statists and Davos crowd groupies like you, Mike.
Reason Rundown
Fetterman Gets Donor To Write Doctor’s Note For Him
I want to know what the fuck that thing on his neck is. An embryonic second head? An alien parasite?
And what is going to happen when it finally opens up?
Probably a sebaceous cyst. Maybe he should get Dr. Pimple Popper to do an episode on him.
Reason Rundown
Gallup: “independents’ confidence” in mass media “is at the lowest point” ever
“Notably, this is the first time that the percentage of Americans with no trust at all in the media is higher than the percentage with a great deal or a fair amount combined.”
Notable:
- Dems near record HIGH while everyone else, the large majority of the country near record LOW
- Independents at their LOWEST EVER, and very close to R's
Another piece of evidence for Elon's little diagram he retweeted with centrists being considered on the "right" mostly due to the extreme left shifting the Overton window more than its ever been. The result being so many centrist independents aligning with the right because the left is now in another universe.
There couldn't be a more clear illustration that the DNC has merged with the MSM, that everyone knows they are the party of propaganda, and nobody (but them) are buying it.
I don't consume much major media product. At least 50% of every news feed I get on either YouTube or the Microsoft page and places like that involves either Trump or January 6th or both. Right now, inflation is the highest it has maybe ever been, the economy is going into a recession, we are closer to being in World War III than at any time since the Cold War, the border has completely broken down, and crime is the worst it has been in living memory. Regardless of their opinion of Trump or January 6th, the vast majority of the country has moved on from him and it and are reasonably worried about these other more important things. Yet, the media just keeps pounding these two stories that are not only objectively unimportant in relation to about a hundred other things, but are not something the large majority of their audience cares about.
The media has totally lost its minds. They really seem to think Twitter is reality.
Or they really feel it is their moral duty to propagandize DNC talking points.
"Regardless of their opinion of Trump or January 6th, the vast majority of the country has moved on from him and it and are reasonably worried about these other more important things."
Huh? Trump has not moved on. He is holding rallies and is the presumed leading Republican candidate for President in 2024.
Trump is a politician and may run for office again. He has a right to do that Mike. The only people who have a problem with that are people like you who can't seem to evict him from their heads. The rest of us will worry about Trump if and when he runs for election in 24. In the mean time, we are more concerned about the damage the senile crooked bastard people like you inflicted on the country is doing.
So, until Trump officially declares no one is allowed to talk about him. Got it.
Don’t think Trump himself would like that.
Yeah. I think inflation, recession, and war are a hell of a lot more important than who may or may not run in two years. Again, only people like you who can't evict Trump from their heads and will do anything to avoid talking about the disaster that is unfolding in front of us give a shit.
Remember, Dee signed up for Truth Social just so he could criticize it.
Alright, it’s been fun, but you’ve clearly revealed you are not a person who can have an honest, civil conversation.
You are continually trying to argue with a cartoon version of me that espouses political beliefs I don’t actually hold.
Muting you. Bye bye.
Mike loses another argument and runs away. You would think he would thank me for trying to make him smarter. But as they say; no good deed goes unpunished.
Dee’s muted most of the commentariat, but she’s not the problem.
Mike runs away anytime he is shown to be infantile. It is amusing. Bet he has very few friends.
Tsk tsk He'll only converse with Chemcastrated, Sarcastrated and that bot that thinks he's writing the articles.
you’ve clearly revealed you are not a person who can have an honest, civil conversation.
I see we have preening Mike Laursen today. A couple of days ago he claimed Republicans believe rioting is acceptable, which is apparently honest and civil.
By comparison, 'riots' on the right side of the political spectrum are positively tame. I'm sure the morons peddling this stuff must fondly recall the 'L.A. Demonstrations' of 1992.
He’ll say that about the right even as he attacks anyone who suggests the same about the left. This is even though the lefts riots were much larger and went on regularly for six months and intermittently for years all with protection from supposedly mainstream Dems.
The only way he maintains his beliefs about the left and right is using these blatantly obvious double standard which reveals him for the hyper-partisan he is.
Give Briggs a chance. Unlike JesseAz he has intelligent and thoughtful things to say. But he's got zero tolerance for bullshit unless the bullshit is coming from his team (he'll never call out JesseAz for his lies but he'll have a fit if you say something exaggerated).
But if you tone down the snideness he can be an interesting conversation. Again, unlike JesseAz.
You just said Jesse's name a whole lot. Are you trying for a beetlejuice or bloody mary thing to get him to appear?
Down below where I said the comments were nice without him I didn't mention his name. But he'd already posted on this thread, so...
Im just saying, you really seem to want to talk with him. Is this like a Tony/John thing?
He’s been pulling EXACTLY the same tactics as JesseAz, attributing beliefs to me based on nothing I’ve said.
Nope.
My point is to Mike, not you, and the point is that Briggs, unlike JesseAz, isn't a total douche.
Comprende?
He’s been pulling EXACTLY the same tactics as JesseAz, attributing beliefs to me based on nothing I’ve said.
I've had some decent conversations with the guy. Don't write him off yet. He doesn't react well to generalizations. But if you get serious and have something serious to seriously talk about in a serious way, he can toss out some insights worth pondering.
Hilarious.
He has pulled three or four JesseAz’s on me in the past two days, including calling me a groomer yesterday.
Because you are a groomer, Mike.
"He has pulled three or four JesseAz’s on me in the past two days, including calling me a groomer yesterday."
Im not sure you are a groomer. You might just be groomer adjacent or a groomer enabler.
But he's not far off
"Don't think Trump himself would like that." You seem to have strayed dangerously close to realizing Trump would fade if the left would stop whinging about him 24/7. He really would too. Trump's power rests on the correct perception that the left fears him like they fear no one else. Probably his most lasting contribution to American politics is how thoroughly he's provoked the left into revealing who and what they actually are.
Don’t agree. Trump is still leading in Republican polls, and that has nothing to do with the left.
The more a political movement becomes like a religion, the more the "believers" will blindly support the movement (and the less everyone else will).
Was thinking this breaks down roughly how a poll about how valid and true scientology is from 'rabid supporters of scientology' vs 'everyone else'
Reason Rundown
Vancouver’s first Asian mayor is hardly a ‘fascist,’ no matter what the left says
“Baseless attacks on Ken Sim show the ugly side of progressive politics”
Per usual, diversity is super important unless it involves any diversity of thought. And diversity of thought = fascist.
These people are like angsty teenage girls
Edit:
"This has become the reality of downtown Vancouver. Random stabbings, smashed windows and old ladies getting attacked have become all-too-frequent occurrences in a city previously known for its safety."
Look at that, yet another city that went to shit when taken over by leftists with lefty policies. Im starting to see a pattern emerging.
Don't forget that Asians are only considered a part of the minority rainbow when convenient.
And hispanics are now in that category too:
When they are having 'immigration' dangled to buy votes (even though thats retarded), or being pandered to, they are cultured, proud, strong, independent, hispanic minorities
If they ever stray from supporting the wokesters...they are basically white, and supporting white supremacy.
And as the LA city council hashup shows, RACIST!
"San Fran School Board VP: Asians Guilty of White Supremacist Thinking; Use It to Get Ahead"
https://thenewamerican.com/san-fran-school-board-vp-asians-guilty-of-white-supremacist-thinking-use-it-to-get-ahead/
Biden's new independent contractor proposal takes away worker options.
Workers are free to choose options from within the central plan.
If you like your employer you can keep your employer.
Pictures in The Guardian show what pregnancy looks like before 10 weeks.
Scraped for your enjoyment.
In Europe, a seasonal rise in COVID cases has begun.
NEW VARIANT CLAIMS INBOUND
Oh it's covid season already, just in time for elections. Merry Covid everybody.
The Pentagon will pay for employee travel for abortions...
Must not be handled through the VA.
They are, which is why the concern over partial-birth abortions.
Former President Donald J. Trump is claiming that nine documents seized by the F.B.I. from his Florida residence are his personal property—but the Justice Department says they are official records that should be deposited with the National Archives...
Which of those two do you find less credible?
Reason Rundown
Volkswagen wouldn't let me shit in a bowl
Bravo. The Volkswagen people just ignored them all day and turned the lights off and locked the doors when they left at the end of the day. These people are spoiled, children demanding attention.
It's great how they think "right to protest" means total subservience and support from the business whose activities they're intentionally disrupting.
"Doctors ascertained the possibility of life-threatening blood clots in my hand and recommended an immediate transfer to a hospital. My health is of course paramount. I accepted to leave this wonderful group and was taken to hospital, continuing my hunger strike"
He basically pussed out. Complained of 'swelling', got a doctor to unstick him, and claims they said he could have life-threatening blood clots in his hand, which they wouldn't have, because thats not something that happens. His hand was probably just sore from being stuck there. He was desperately looking for an out, because he is a pussy.
The correct response would have been to leave him there until he unstuck himself, or rip him off and give him the boot out the door.
Charging people 5 euro to take a leak on one of the protesting 'scientists' would send a great message. 15 euro to kick one in the nuts.
Thanks for this, I needed a good laugh.
nearly 20 state constitutions still permit slavery or indentured servitude as a punishment
Just like China?
Amendment XIII in the original Constitution allowed convicts in prisons to work.
Was wondering why there's only 150 comments and nobody is making shit up about me, and then I noticed one particularly girly girl is absent.
No one cares sweetheart. Really.
Just saying that the absence of one particular shithead reduced the comments by half in a positive way.
Taylor Swift's new album just dropped. He's busy.
Who is that?
I don't want to accidentally pull a Beetlejuice, so I'm not going to say his name. Ask his puppy dog below.
Can't you just fuck off, trollboy? You brought Jesse up specifically for some attention and to start a fight.
Instagram is looking for attention whores. Try auditioning over there. ====>
Seek help.
Sarc is upset the comments aren't about him so he comments specifically to make more about him.
one particularly girly girl
Ideas! I'm so old I remember when sarc pretended to think schoolyard taunts were bad.
That whooshing noise was my point flying over your head.
That whooshing nose was inside your head.
Many children believe their jejune observations are above others understanding when in reality it is themselves who are unable to understand. Maybe someday you'll mature out of this.
Oh look. Marshal is the adult and I'm just a little child. How cute.
In your dreams, bub.
You're a near-sixty hillbilly on the outside, Sarc, but you're not a day over nine within.
One of us claims to fuck other commenters mothers and thinks he wins debates by claiming those who disagree give blowjobs to each other.
We all know is who.
Does throwing someone into a jail cell, with bars and locks, and shackling them whenever they move about in the world, count as slavery?
Asking for a friend.
Where was your friend on Jan 6?
I think that's probably the logical conclusion from the arguments made above.
So, I'm pretty iffy on the argument made above. I think a broad amendment like this is weird, though as mentioned in the article it's not particularly enforced in states that have adopted it.
I'm very much for prison reform, but I think that is going to end up being smaller, wonky measures rather than a big, broad amendment like this. I'm not really even clear that having labor as an aspect of criminal punishment is particularly immoral. I kind of get the feeling I'm not weird in that regard, which is why I imagine they're using the very heavy-handed comparison of the act to slavery.
Like I say above, most prisoners want to work. It is a lot more cruel to just lock them up with nothing to do than it is to let them work. I understand the danger of prison labor being allowed to compete with regular labor too much. We don't want states and private prison companies locking people up for fun and profit more than we already have that. But, prisoners ought to work and the fruits of that labor ought to go to both pay for their incarceration and if possible provide restitution to their victims.
It is a really stupid hill for reason to die on.
What I see happening is some well-intentioned law gets passed forcing prisons to pay minimum wage to prisoners, and the result is no work at all because prisons can't afford to pay them.
That is exactly what will happen and the prisoners will be much worse off for it. Not letting prisoners do productive work is cruel and unusual punishment in my opinion.
aye
Yeah, I'd definitely want something to do and keep occupied with if I was in prison.
The word prison come from penitentiary which is derived from penance. Originally these were places run by religious folks, and the prisoners would have to read and meditate on scripture. This way they could become better people or make peace with God or a priest or whatever. But there was a purpose to locking them up, and the prisoners weren't idle. They were supposed to reflect on what they'd done with access to religious authorities. You get the idea.
Now prisons are just warehouses for people who got caught violating legislation. It's more about punishment than rehabilitation. How do you rehabilitate someone who committed a victimless crime? Teaching them to have a conscience doesn't help since they didn't harm anyone. Prison doesn't do any good, in my opinion. What does prison teach? It teaches how to get along in prison. How does that make prisoners into better people? It doesn't.
I'm down with Starship Troopers (the book, not the abomination on film) where justice is swift, painful, and short.
Heinlein also wrote about the idea of coventry (appropriately enough in a short story called “Coventry”). No punishment per se — just dumping all the antisocial people somewhere else.
The people who push the "prison labor is slavery" idea think labor generally (in the sense of work, not labor movements) is slavery. They're the fully automated luxury communism crowd who think we'd all live like the Kardashians if only the greedy capitalists would give us our robot butlers already. They see no dignified aspect to working and honestly would be happy to sit around all day as long as they were provided the accommodations they feel they deserve. See VW protestor above for an example of this person.
It is a really stupid hill for reason to die on.
Agreed, but Reason has become a really stupid publication.
How long before we get prison slavery without a conviction? Seems like it will provide perverse incentives to governments. Doesn’t seem like the right direction to be headed.
Fuck Joe Biden.
17 days.
Be prepared to see electoral fortifications on a scale not observed since WW1 trench warfare.
Strike the “slavery” (owning human beings as property), keep the involuntary servitude: it should be possible to force people who have caused substantial damages or losses to other people and have been legally convicted beyond a reasonable doubt to work in order to make restitution.