America's Families Still Revile USDA-Funded School Lunches
The central planning of America's public school lunch menus has been a disaster.

Last week, as countless Americans around the country celebrated School Lunch Hero Day, which honors school lunchroom staff, parents and students were busy complaining furiously about the frequently inedible food those heroes serve our nation's public school students. Unlike School Lunch Hero Day, which just turned 10, such complaints about government-provided school lunches are an annual tradition that's been going on for generations.
In Baltimore, for example, parents are complaining about the foods served to kids throughout the county. "They said their children's milk has had chunks in it," Fox Baltimore reported last week. "Some of the food has been moldy, they said." The report also notes that "what looks like a lump of brown meat on white bread" in one photo—an extremely charitable description—is "actually a peanut butter and jelly sandwich."
School lunch horror stories such as these are ubiquitous. In Springfield, Massachusetts, families are complaining about moldy food and "pizzas with discoloration" that one school served to kids. Students and parents in Michigan complained earlier this year about "nasty" school-lunch food. In North Carolina, a debate team launched a fight against the "abhorrent provisions" their school serves. Just outside St. Louis, Missouri, a county health department is investigating complaints about food served by a local public high school, including student illnesses, roaches, mice, and moldy and spoiled food. It is at least the fifth time this school year the health department has investigated the school's food service.
A University of Chicago researcher studying school food, Karlyn Gorski, explained this week that she found "still-frozen vegetables and nibbled-on rolls" in the meals she's purchased at one Chicago public school. Last year, Buzzfeed posted photos of some particularly gross school lunches, including this little bit of sadness. Parental complaints that some of this food resembles that served to prisoners doesn't miss the mark.
While school lunchroom staff shouldn't be blamed for the quality of the food they serve—they neither select nor buy the food—the real school lunch heroes, in my opinion, are the parents and kids speaking out against the wasteful National School Lunch Program and the abysmal food it provides to many of our nation's children. Under that decades-old program, schools generally receive around $3 per meal served. Just $1 of that $3 goes towards food. The rest—$2, or twice as much as schools spend on food—goes to overhead and other costs.
As I explained in a 2019 column, former First Lady Michelle Obama's signature 2012 overhaul of the National School Lunch Program modified meal requirements for sodium, whole grains, milk, and produce. That was supposed to make the food healthier. But those reforms, I explain in my book Biting the Hands that Feed Us: How Fewer, Smarter Laws Would Make Our Food System More Sustainable, caused costs to soar, spurred students and school districts to flee the program in droves, and created such "unprecedented mountains of food waste" that kids were putting more food in rubbish bins than they were in their mouths. I cited research showing that around 90 percent or more of salad, unflavored milks, and vegetable sides served by schools end up in the trash.
But don't blame hungry kids for wasting food. Centralized planning of school meals is an inherently unworkable idea.
"Meals must both help fight obesity and ensure all students get sufficient calories," I write in Biting the Hands that Feed Us. "They must contain foods kids want to eat, but also must be healthy. Meals must be so generalized that they cater to the food preferences of all of America's millions of public-school students while also ensuring that they appeal to students who practice all sorts of diets." That includes vegans, Atkins dieters, kosher eaters, and the like. And in case you're wondering if some bureaucrats in Washington answered a question the world's restaurateurs have not—How can I serve a meal that everyone will like and eat?—they haven't.
Noting rising student protests and food waste—or perhaps just wanting to undo anything that had the Obama imprimatur on it—the Trump administration rolled back the Obama administration's changes to the school lunch program soon after taking office. But Trump's plan, I explained in a 2020 column, was just as unlikely to achieve anything of substance:
Critics of the Obama administration's school-lunch reforms, me included, argued the changes meant both soaring costs and mountains of food waste. Critics of the Trump administration's school-lunch reforms, me included, argue the changes mean school lunches stink like they used to and offer students lower-quality food.
Those phenomena are playing out in school lunchrooms across the country. This week, for example, the elementary school lunch menu in Lake Tahoe, NV featured corn dogs and pizza. Fulton County, GA lunches for elementary students included a turkey and cheese croissant, popcorn chicken with a breadstick, and mini pepperoni calzones. In Montgomery County, MD, this week's elementary lunch menu included beef Sloppy Joe sandwiches, veggie burgers, and pepperoni and cheese stuffed sandwiches. In Elmore County, AL, elementary students could choose from such lunch entrees as corn dogs, cheesy bread with marinara, pizza, boneless wings, and a warmed ham and cheese sandwich. Students at one Pasco, WA elementary school were offered lunch entrees that included a chicken burger with cheese, nachos, "mini calzones pepperoni," or a "Pepperoni Ripper." In short, school lunches still suck a lot.
When it comes to school lunch both the Obama and Trump administrations dropped the ball, "creat[ing] new problems instead of offering a solution," I wrote in 2020. "Ultimately, politics should have nothing to do with the foods kids eat at school."
What would a politics-free solution look like? Well, I outlined one almost exactly a decade ago. It involves having families who can afford to pack their kids' lunches to do just that, and to use high-quality, leftover food from restaurants and grocers to provide food for kids whose families cannot afford to make lunches daily. That would improve the quality of food students eat; cut the USDA's wasteful budget dramatically; eliminate the need for school lunchrooms and the staff who work in them; and finally combat food waste in a serious and widespread manner.
The USDA's role under such an approach? I don't see any need for one at all. Centralized federal government control over foods served in schools is the problem, not the answer.
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The real villains here are the fast food companies. They sell food that is cheap and tastes good - the bastards!
Just wait for the new Federal Disnutrition Governance Board, with sweeping arrest powers.
Cheap? You could make your own burger for Pennies on the Dolllar compared to fast-food prices. People have just lost the ability and/or will to cook, even with labor-saving inventions.
Yes. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people talk about how it's too expensive to eat healthy. Not the case at all in my personal experience.
Every meal in our home starts from scratch. That's how you save money on your food bill.
Depends if you buy it in the non-GMO, certified organic section at Whole Foods, or the meat and vegetable sections at Walmart.
That said, you can live off of chicken wieners, instant ramen, a bag of rice and a vitamin pill for $2.50 a day.
If you're young and healthy, yes. That diet would kill me within months.
Not to mention the death of whoever tried to feed it to me - - - - - - - -
That's what got me through college.
Now that requires artisan kale, and puppies and coloring books. Really.
Don't forget safe spaces to cry in.
Ahhh, I see... 😉
I'm no Health Nazi, but I strive to be a Health Partizan. I won't tell anyone how to live, but speaking matter-of-fact, unless you've got a pancreas of steel, that is not Survivalist food, that is Deathist food.
Just a friendly suggestion: At least try mixing some stir-fry onions, carrots, snow peas, water chessnuts, bamboo slices, broccolli bits, and beef or chicken slices with the rice and season with garlic and hot sauce. Scrambled eggs and cachews with chicken go good with fried rice for protein as well.
And if you like sauerkraut and Korean ramen, kimshi is a great soup you might like.
Try it...You'll liiiike it! 🙂
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That's as ridiculous as a all-starch, chicken wiener diet! Hard pass!
Exactly, it's inexpensive to eat healthy... it's very costly to eat healthy, trendy, and conveniently.
Again, that's not true if your diet has to accommodate chronic health conditions.
Sure, but then it's not going to be cheap any way you approach it.
Right.
The Beautiful Brand Air fryer/Dehydrator, the 3 Squares Rice Cooker/Steamer/Yogurt Maker, and the SodaStream Fizzie have all made cooking and eating cheaper wnd healthier from home much easier for me.
The SodaStream only takes a few seconds to turn water and flavoring into a tasty carbonated drink, and the other two devices work automatically by timer. Clean-Up is a breeze too.
The main thing is getting into the habit of using them. Once you dovl it's easier.
I'm sure that most of the families that rely on the school lunch program have the Beautiful Brand Air fryer/Dehydrator, the 3 Squares Rice Cooker/Steamer/Yogurt Maker, and the SodaStream Fizzie in their kitchen inventories. Is that you, Gwyneth?
All this was on sale. The air fryer was $69.95, down from $99, the 3 Squares was $39.95 at Ollies, and the SodaStream was $111, though there are less expensive models.
No Gwyneth Goopy shit here! I've "checked my working-class privilege" and it works just fine!
"Non-GMO" is a contradiction in terms, "Organic" means Carbon-based and thus is a tautological redundancy for food, and in my area at least, Aldi and Lidl are the best for both price and available supply, albeit their selection is more limited than Walmart.
If you want healthy food that tastes as good as cheap garbage, it's pricey. The impact isn't as great with home cooked food, buts it's there. The difference is crazy at the full service restaurant level.
For example, olive oil is much more expensive than corn oil. Fish is typically more expensive than red meat. Fresh veggies are more expensive than frozen. Brown, wild and basmati are more expensive than white rice. Real cheese is more expensive than American. Ground beef cheaper than steak. Dark meat chicken cheaper than white meat.
On top of that, fresh veggies don't stay good for 7 days, so you have to make more groceries trips.
And then there is the time you need to make good healthy food. A delicious, healthy meal made from scratch takes me an hour or so. At my consulting rate, most people would be assed out (including myself).
Your being disingenuous.
Dehydrating, freezing, airtight sealing, and canning are helpful at makijg shelf life much longer for food. Canning is the most labor
-intensive, but the other methods are much easier.
"People have just lost the ability and/or will to cook, even with labor-saving inventions."
This is silly. People haven't lost anything. That's like saying people have lost the ability or will to write letters.
People use services of convenience because it is convenient, not because of some lost ability.
And there isn't a fast food restaurant out there that doesn't have healthy options should somebody want it. Hell, eating a big mac and fries isn't even that unhealthy- in moderation.
Not to mention that plenty of fast food places still have dollar menus.
For now at least.
That will soon go away, it will be another democrat success story. They have an endless capacity to ruin things.
Based on my college instruction experience, many young people HAVE lost (or never had) the ability and will to write coherently.
And there isn't a fast food restaurant out there that doesn't have healthy options should somebody want it
This was the case in 2019. Now, not so much.
I'm sure there's some grand point to be made about McD's dropping all their grilled chicken and salad options when COVID hit, but I don't feel much like making it.
People do use convienience foods for convenience, but they also pay much more for convenience, as well as sacrifice nutrition and freshness. And judging from the ubiquity of convenience foods and lack of home economics courses, DIY food is at very least a niche phenomenon. As Thomas Sowell always observes, life is trade-offs.
As for healthy options, Keith Larson, former talk-show host and former marketing genius for McDonald's pointed out that survey participants always answered that they wanted healthier options, but in terms of how they actually purchase, they always go for the less healthier options. Salads made up less than 2 percent of sales for The Golden Arches Steak House. Clearly, virtue signalling is no stranger to marketing research.
As for the healthiness of fast food, while in modest portions it isn't bad, how often do people only eat modest portions? Obesity and diabetes and heart disease rates in the U.S. don't seem to tell a good story.
None of this should be interpreted as Food Fascism or saying, "There Oughtta Be A Law..." It's all just observations of a culture that's strayed far away from self-reliance and actual self-care for health.
Good ole' revealed preferences.
"Revealed preferences?" If I cite Thomas Sowell, it can't be all bad "revealed preferences."
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Yep, and with Political Correctness/Wokeness/DIE policies in corporations, schools, governments, and culture in general, surveys are even less reliable than ever. No one wants to answer "wrong" and get doxxed or thratened.
"People do use convienience foods for convenience, but they also pay much more for convenience, as well as sacrifice nutrition and freshness."
There is nothing un-nutritious about a hamburger.
Yes, you pay more. Not much more than if you rolled your own burger for 1 person, but so what? A LOT of things would be cheaper if you did them yourself. Did you build your own home? Teach yourself instead of going to a fancy university?
"but in terms of how they actually purchase, they always go for the less healthier options."
Yes, I totally agree. It doesn't change the fact that you can get healthy food from almost any fast food restaurant. So the problem isn't that people have "forgotten" how to cook decent food. It is that in a highly specialized economy, they have a WEALTH of options, including not spending a half hour to an hour of their precious time cooking.
"As for the healthiness of fast food, while in modest portions it isn't bad, how often do people only eat modest portions? "
Pretty much every serving of food you get from a fast food burger joint is fine for your main meal of the day. A Big Mac (540), Medium Fries (380) and a Medium Coke (210) comes in at less than half (1130 calories) of a man's recommended diet (2500). Women get it below half by switching to a diet soda.
Yeah, don't eat fast food every day, 3 meals a day. Don't get a shake (700 - 1000 of sugar) with every meal. But guess what? Most people don't actually do that.
Sorry, but this food snobbery gets under my skin. The trend isn't that people have lost the ability or will to cook. The trend is that people are busy doing other things with their time.
And it is completely wrong to act as if fast food cannot be healthy or nutritious. I'm tired of parents being made to feel like failures because they took their kid to McDonalds on a busy night. They aren't harming their kids, and it is a myth that some how 1/4lb of protein, lettuce, tomato, pickles and enriched bread is somehow not nutritious.
Hamburger per se isn't bad, but buying your own means you can select less fattier cuts. Also, air frying means burgers and crispy fries without oil and you can cook even healthier specialties like sweet potato fries not found in fast food chains.
And if you've seen how bad fast food lines can be--Two rows around Chik-Fil-A?!?--cooking at home can actually be less time and hassle.
Yes, I agree self-sufficiency in everything (Economic Autarky as a national policy) is nearly impossible and impoverishing, but if the opportunity cost is less than the gain and the technology permits, (as it does with modern cooking devices,) than the self-sufficiency of cooking for yourself is a great thing.
For me, it's not snobbery or looking down on anyone, but finding better, cheaper, and more fulfilling ways of doing things.
Not really cheap anymore. It used to be cheap.
Three options:
1. Abortions should be safe, legal and
rarewhen mothers do not want to feed theirblobs of tissuechildren2. Evolution has worked marvelously for millions of years. Follow the science!
3. Close government run schools and let mothers who birthed these offsprings take over their upbringing (since Pro-Aborts do not want fathers included from the moment of conception forward)
Not even at the moment of conception, since that requires sperm, and all sperm requires rape.
If you really want to ensure he isn't involved, you can get a viable sample of sperm from a corpse with electric stimulation.
All faculty and administrators should be required to eat the same meals as students.
And to be paid as a function of earnings of former students.
"Last week, as countless Americans around the country celebrated School Lunch Hero Day, "
All 10 of them?
Everyone is a hero today! (Except taxpayers, they don't get a special day.)
Nor do we get to go on strike when we are treated poorly.
Sure we do. It's called a "revolution".
Ludwig Von Mises once observed that while the French Constitution recognizes "the right of revolution," the government was not so stupid as to take it seriously.
Hero as in sub or poboy?
There's a restaurant close by that has an awesome shrimp po'boy with a jalapeno ranch sauce. I get it almost every time I go there.
This thread is making me hungry.
Time for school!
Baylen Linnekin's work always does that to me too. Here lately, the Roundup, stories on the Russo-Ukrainian War, and Baylen's Saturday Food articles are all I have time for anymore.
I hear you can get lobster rolls for $6 in Maine.
It was more than 10. That's why it's "countless"; the kids ran out of fingers to count on.
Exteremely charitable indeed. It looks to me like some small animal vomited or had the runs on a slice of bread.
Two questions:
How can you F up a PBJ sandwich?
Is this even allowed since someone may have a peanut allergy?
Two answers.
Government. The government can F up anything.
Forget peanut allergies, that should qualify as a violation of the Geneva Convention.
Grape jelly fucks up everything.
Maybe, but strawberry preserves are a clos second.
Grape jelly isn't even food, more like solidified juice.
Strawberry preserves are awesome.
Orange marmalade and apple butter too.
We’ve got a Meyer’s lemon tree. It makes delicious marmalade.
Huckleberry jam is tops.
There are school systems where peanut butter is not allowed.
Peanut butter on one side, honey on the other, one layer of Lay's regular potato chips 'sandwiched' in between, on a good white bread.
Don't make it too complicated. Take your standard peanut butter and grape jelly sandwich on plain wheat bread. Butter both sides of the bread and grill until toasted.
Once you have a grilled PB&J, you'll never go back to the cold kind.
I discovered last Thanksgiving that leftover cranberry sauce goes great with peanut butter.
Pro-Tip on ground peanut butter without solidifiers: To keep peanut oil blended through the jar and from accumulating at the top of the jar, just turn the jar upside down in the pantry.
That won't prevent separation, it will just move the separated oil to the bottom of the jar. Refrigeration will minimize separation.
While refrigeration does prevent separation, hard peanut better is a pain to spead on a soft piece of artesan loaf. For smooth peanut butter, I keep it on the room temperature shelf. And in the Summertime for me it gets used quickly.
Its not really peanut butter. Its "peanut" butter.
In Baltimore, for example, parents are complaining about the foods served to kids throughout the county. "They said their children's milk has had chunks in it," Fox Baltimore reported last week. "Some of the food has been moldy, they said." The report also notes that "what looks like a lump of brown meat on white bread" in one photo—an extremely charitable description—is "actually a peanut butter and jelly sandwich."
The parents could use it as a homeschooling lesson and tell kids: "This is how the world becomes if you act like 'Sarah Cynthia Sylvia Stout Who Would Not Take The Garbage Out.'"
https://youtu.be/zhpFqZv9QSU
When dependency on state control and sustenance breaks down.
Indeed. I'd be willing to bet homeschooled kids not only generally do better in lessons, but also have better diets. A survey would be very interesting.
What would a politics-free solution look like? Well, I outlined one almost exactly a decade ago. It involves having families who can afford to pack their kids' lunches to do just that, and to use high-quality, leftover food from restaurants and grocers to provide food for kids whose families cannot afford to make lunches daily.
"Politics-free"?! Sheesh, the government force and regulation involved in "having" families pack lunches and "to use" leftover food would be large, and hence political.
Yeah, Linnekin has one good idea and oversells it.
Oversells it? More like takes a Sesame Street level idea and pretends it's the best thing since sliced bread.
First off, restaurant leftovers almost always cannot be donated due to food safety consideration. They are also inconsistent in both quality and supply. The overhead to do so would be much more expensive.
Additionally, this also ignores a major consideration of school lunches. The nutrition requirements heavily encourage the use of prepackaged foods as those can automatically make things much easier to comply with requirements. It wouldn't be hard for a school to grill chicken thighs, served with corn on the cob, fresh rolls, and broccoli. It would be cheaper and more tasty as well. However, that would be far harder to demonstrate compliance than boxed, frozen, and pre-portioned meals.
First off, restaurant leftovers almost always cannot be donated due to food safety consideration.
This is literally a complaint of his.
The nutrition requirements heavily encourage the use of prepackaged foods as those can automatically make things much easier to comply with requirements.
Also a problem he aims to highlight.
I congratulate Baylen Linnekin for asking the question "What would a politics-free solution look like?" THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
On the other hand, Linnekin's outlined solution, presumes a government run school system (not politics-free), absolutely failing to answer the question from a libertarian perspective. Further, his solution uses government force upon parents to pack lunches when they may prefer the school offer them, plus the force required to obtain and use leftover food from restaurants and grocers (one would think this leftover food is either contaminated with customer saliva, or is being thrown out as not meeting the restaurant's standards because it's moldy, out of date, and just like school lunches). But I'm sure there's some good food to be had, which non-profits for the poor seek as well.
How would a libertarian answer the question? First by pointing out that government run schools don't have any market incentives to provide what parents and their children want and need. Then by pointing out that privately run schools offer a range of lunch offerings so parents can choose the free market school that meets their needs (packed lunch, school cafeteria, nearby restaurants, school sit down restaurant, and more. Heck, in a free market, I'd expect school lunches to be a selling factor to choose their school, if that's important to parents and their children.
Out of date at a restaurant is extremely conservative when compared to the home. When I worked fast food, we had to throw out burgers at 8 minutes. Fried chicken was an hour. At a restaurant, baked goods were less than two days(at closing the day after they were made). That may have changed, because when my wife worked at Panera, they would bring all of their bread to the soup kitchen at the end of the day.
Restaurants have to consistently serve food at the highest quality. Additionally, health regs are very very strict.
On a side note; when I was young I would occasionally eat at the soup kitchen. The food made school food of the time taste like 4 stars. Now I volunteer there, and they serve a buffet that puts OCB to shame.
Good point and no doubt, in a free market, people would figure out many ways to more efficiently consume the food we buy.
So, a choice between baloney and mayo on white bread, or tasty leftovers from a restaurant? Yeah, I'm poor!
A choice between honky white food and scraps like the slaves used to get. How racist can you be?
I think you’re confused. Hunkys just SMELL like baloney. Fried baloney sandwich is brother food.
At my first job, my first time closing, we threw away a good 50lbs of completely edible food. When I asked why don't we give it to the local soup kitchen, I was informed that it is illegal to do so.
LET ME GET THIS FVCKIN STRAIGHT
Obama's plan was a huge mistake, but Trump undoing Obama's plan was also somehow a huge mistake? WTF?
BOOOOAAAFFFFFF SSSSSIIIIIIIIIDDDESSSS moves beyond ridiculous at some point
Necessarily. Both Tofu Tacos and Carl's Jr./Hardee's could get pretty old quick. 🙂
Correction: Not necessarily.
Pack your kid a decent sandwich and an apple in a brown bag or lunch box.
Stop being so lazy.
"Check your privilege! And watch the racist bag hate speech!"
My charter school teams up with local restaurants and splits profits as their hot lunch program. So I do it as a means to get the school some money and kids do like warm pizza.
My kids went to a parochial school last year, and it was somewhat the same situation where local restaurants provided lunches. It blew my mind that the per meal costs we paid were lower than those of the local public school. (Granted, some of the restaurants probably provided meals at a very discounted rate as a charitable contribution).
Same here. My daughter went to a Catholic high school her freshman year and lunch was catered by a nearby Italian restaurant. A mix of pasta dishes, sandwiches, salads. I'm sure it got a little monotonous but they always had the option to brownbag it.
What about kids from families who can't afford to pack a lunch for them every day?
If the government is going to compel students to go to school, the government shouldn't make them starve all day if the kids don't bring a lunch.
There are very few families who cannot afford to pack a lunch. I say this as someone who spent a significant portion of my childhood on either free or reduced lunches.
To your point, there are, unfortunately, many families who will not prioritize feeding their kids. The root cause generally isn't a lack of resources.
Not to get all moral hazard-y, but expanding the role of the state because the state already has a role will only exacerbate that root problem.
I understand your point about moral hazard, and I sympathize with it to an extent, but the way to address the moral hazard concern is not to let kids go hungry at school. Again the government compels attendance at these schools. By so doing, the government creates a duty of care for those whom it compels.
One way to address the moral hazard concern is to charge families for the cost of a lunch that they have to provide to kids who don't bring their lunches.
But what's the logical end of your duty of care argument? Government compels us to do all sorts of things; does that make it responsible for all our basic needs encountered during compulsion? Who defines "basic needs"?
I agree with your last paragraph. Don't even need to charge them necessarily. Go back to having kids wipe down tables to pay for lunch. It's troubling to me that kids being "shamed" by something like that is more of a concern in our society than kids growing up without any sense of value exchange and/or work ethic.
If the government, or any organization for that matter, is going to physically compel an individual by force to remain in a physical location, then that organization has a duty to make sure that individual's basic needs are met. That IMO is the extent of the 'duty of care' argument. If there is no coercion keeping an individual physically confined to a particular area, then there is no necessary duty of care in this regards.
Clothing? Health Care? Entertainment?... Again, what all constitutes basic needs? After all, kids are compelled to be in these facilities for half their waking lives.
But really, if we're directly comparing public schools to prisons for sake of argument, then maybe the focus shouldn't be mealtime, but the whole concept of compulsory education itself.
As it stands, public schools and lunch programs aren't going anywhere. Let's reform them to put more onus on parents. Provide lunch for your own kid or arrange for it (either through private transaction or charity). School provided lunches, as a last resort, should entail some sort of compensation. And there should not be any federal programs involved. It should be a school, district, or (at the very most) a state issue.
We can have reasonable disagreement about what precisely is a "basic need", but I would hope that we can all agree that food and water ought to be at the top of the list.
And I largely agree with your last paragraph.
Seriously. And then make the bullies wipe down tables too.
Sure, I'd absolutely be good with that, too. Kids should learn humility as well.
I know you want a totalitarian nanny state, but not everything needs to be dealt with using a government program.
Judging from the sign at your Freehold Trading Post, Restaurant and Bar, you could serve the kiddies some great lunches as well as provide valuable lessons and entertainment, not to mention tasty libations for the parents! And the books you get as payment can help supply a thriving lending library! 🙂
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ab/3e/94/ab3e94eddb0501fee6008b380a572fd0.jpg
Had it ever occured to anyone in that little cat-fight that investing in profit-making, job-creating ventures may be the best way of helping the poor and unfortunate in a way that keeps them helped? Neither Atheists nor Theists are strangers to investing.
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"What about kids from families who can't afford to pack a lunch for them every day?"
You mean the kids who get breakfast, lunch, after school snacks and in some cases dinner while Mama is getting her nails done and checking out Facebook on her latest model iPhone?
And while her current Baby Daddy who is living illegally in her Section 8 apartment eats all the food she bought with her SNAP card.
What about child molesters who pretend to be altruistic?
What about Internet warriors who suck Putin's dick and repeatedly claim a murderous desire to kill everyone who disagrees with him ideologically, but who never get around to do anything about it? Hmm?
But enough about you and the 2016 election...
“The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War's been over for 20 years”
The "reset" button still chafing your ass, Jeff?
There we go. Let your hate flow. It is all you have.
Lol, it's true that I utterly despise you, but is quoting Obama in 2012 "hate" speech now?
You are the only person here who thinks that Obama is somehow relevant to the discussion.
You only have hatred, it's the only thing that keeps you going.
You were taking cheapshots against anyone who doesn't rant about Russia, so I reminded you that your precious messiah wasn't on the Two Minutes Hate bandwagon not to long ago.
The only reason you say it's not relevant is because you're a compulsive liar.
I don't give a fuck about Obama. You brought him up, not me.
And no, I was not "taking cheapshots against anyone who doesn't rant about Russia". I was mocking Nardz specifically who literally is our resident pro-Russia apologist here.
What exactly was your purpose here in bringing up Obama? To take a cheap shot at me?
And you only have lies and pedantry.
We have lots of things. Hatred for you is only a tiny part. Oh, and how is your leveraged buyouts of NAMBLA progressing?
Gee, what about families who can't afford the kids they produce?
What about them?
Do you think everyone else is morally compelled to support them?
I think that, broadly, we all have a moral obligation to help the less fortunate. I don't think that this moral obligation should be enforced by the state, but rather it should be enforced by one's own moral conscience.
No, we ‘all’ don’t. That’s what charity is for. Thankfully, there are lots of conservatives of faith. I say that because studies have proven that those are the last giving people. With leftist atheists being the most stingy.
Which is completely obvious.
To an extent, I do. In my opinion it is moral to support the members of your community that are in need. Yes I know it's a slippery slope and there are ne'er-do-wells that will abuse the system. However, there children are generally innocent of the bad decisions there parents make.
Note: chemjeff faggot statist is muted so I don't know the question. Adults that have made bad decisions aren't entitled to our help.
Note 2: their kids aren't either, but what's moral and what is considered moral aren't one and the same.
Dam... two there their errors. My bad.
Omg i suck.
Revision on note 2: what one is entitled to vs whats moral
Shouldn't a "Radical Individualist" like yourself be fighting against compulsory schooling in the first place?
I do favor privatized schools, yes.
As long as they can groom 5 yer olds.
"What about kids from families who can't afford to pack a lunch for them every day?
If the government is going to compel students to go to school, the government shouldn't make them starve all day if the kids don't bring a lunch."
A person whose first instinct wasn't to retreat to their leftist instincts would know that this is absurd. The government compels me to pay taxes- do they owe me an accountant? The government compels me to wear a helmet when I'm on my bike. Should they pay for that too?
Whether these kids were in school or not, they would need a lunch. The fact that they are at school doesn't suddenly make lunch impossible or more difficult. This is not the appropriate use of government.
Nobody likes the idea of kids going hungry, but that is both exceedingly rare in this country (which is why they have created abstract terms like "food insecure") and easily fixable with charity.
Just for example, No Kid Hungry receives some $160 Million dollars a year and spends the bulk of that money lobbying government for new lunch programs. That alone could provide 32 million meals to kids.
The government compels me to pay taxes- do they owe me an accountant?
Does the government physically confine you to your house so that you may prepare your taxes?
Whether these kids were in school or not, they would need a lunch. The fact that they are at school doesn't suddenly make lunch impossible or more difficult. This is not the appropriate use of government.
Is it an appropriate use of government to feed prisoners in prison? Is it an appropriate use of government to feed jurors on a sequestered jury?
These are both examples of government using force to compel individuals to be physically located in a specific area without their choice.
I am totally fine with government working with charitable organizations or nonprofits or even commercial restaurants to provide food for students that they COMPEL to be there by force. I am open to any creative solution that you might think of. But what I am not in favor of, is to relieve government completely of its duty of care for individuals who they physically compel by force to be located in a particular space.
And it's quite sad that you think that this is some partisan "leftist" instinct. It is not. It is a humanitarian instinct. It's a bit telling that you equate humanitarian concerns with "leftism".
“Is it an appropriate use of government to feed prisoners in prison?”
Fucking idiot. If you’re in prison you can’t go to work and earn a living. Kids being in school doesn’t stop parents from going to work. In fact it helps. Do you ever stop to think before you hit submit?
"Is it an appropriate use of government to feed prisoners in prison? Is it an appropriate use of government to feed jurors on a sequestered jury?"
These are just terrible analogies.
If you are on Jury duty, and the judge gives recess, you may go get food at the court cafeteria. If you have not brought your own, you are expected to pay for your own food. The same is true at work. Unless my office forces me to work through lunch, or sends me on a trip where I cannot provide my own meals at home, I have to pay for my own lunch.
The reason sequestration and prison are different is that the people in question have been completely removed from a home where they have the option of providing food for themselves.
This is not the case with public education. Last I checked, kids go home each night. If they are in school or if they stayed home all day, either way the parents would need to ensure that they are fed. They need to do that either with a sack lunch (my kids could make their own starting around first or second grade) or by sending them in with cash.
"I am open to any creative solution that you might think of. "
Yeah, it is very creative: Expect parents to provide for their children's meals. Provide a pamphlet for parents to work with a charity if they need to. If the parent, in all these cases cannot provide for their kid, then they cannot provide for the kid at home either, and we have a different problem that has nothing to do with the schools.
Peanut butter is packed with a decent mix of macronutrients and is available at every dollar store in America. I haven't checked for a loaf of bread at Dollar Tree recently, but I know they're available at Family Dollar and Dollar Store.
Every family can afford to pack their kid a simple lunch.
In many school districts, that lunch will be searched by faculty and confiscated for not conforming to guidelines. Or just plain thrown out because "not everyone" can make a sandwich.
(are you listening, staff?)
Last week, as countless Americans around the country celebrated School Lunch Hero Day, which honors school lunchroom staff
Fuck it. If this is real society is already done.
The number of Americans is finite (and therefore entirely countable), On the other hand it's hard to count zero of something. The only way for that statement to be true is if the number of Americans that celebrated School Lunch Hero Day is zero.
Countable? Ever heard of the US Census? Their estimates are more accurate.
We might need a constitutional amendment about that. It's been a long time since actual counting has been more accurate than estimating.
The fun *really* begins when we celebrate School Lunch Hero Hero Day, which honors the countless Americans who honor school lunchroom staff.
Would the lunchroom heros be the poor brave souls that eat the food?
Citing a non-explanation you wrote then doesn't make it an explanation now. You said the Obama regulations were bad, and that rolling them back was somehow also bad, because Trump.
If you actually read her linked article, she wrote that what Trump did was not to repeal Obama's school lunch regulations, but instead give schools greater flexibility to meet those regulations. So essentially Trump permitted schools to pretend that crap food actually counted as "nutritious" according to Obama's rules. That's not exactly fixing a broken system.
I read hir linked article then, and commented on it (as Robert). The administration has to operate within the parameters an act of Congress allows/requires. Obama's had more strictures, Trump's got rid of the additional inflexibility. How is that bad? To really "fix" it requires another act of Congress, but don't complain about the executive acting within the parameters available to hir.
I explained how it was bad. The 'reforms' allowed school districts to lie about what constituted 'nutritious food'.
School districts lie about almost everything.
A lot of them salivate at the prospect of grooming 5 year olds.
Who were they lying to? All food is nutritious. In this case it's a term of art: the rules define "nutritious food". That doesn't mean it satisfies anybody's intuition about what the word means. The parents were not being lied to. You had all those witnesses to what the food was, how could anybody lie about it?
Because "Trump bad!", obviously.
Why do school lunches suck?
Under that decades-old program, schools generally receive around $3 per meal served. Just $1 of that $3 goes towards food. The rest—$2, or twice as much as schools spend on food—goes to overhead and other costs.
Well, there's your answer right there. An absurd government bureaucracy soaks up most of the money, leaving kids with crap left over for actual food.
Here's part of the bureaucratic problem right here:
The National School Lunch Program is an entitlement program that guarantees a set reimbursement for each qualifying meal or snack served.
Low-income children are eligible to receive reduced-price or free meals at school. Children in households with incomes below 130 percent of the poverty level or those receiving SNAP or TANF qualify for free meals. Those with family incomes between 130 and 185 percent of the poverty line qualify for reduced-price meals.
[...]
Schools receive cash reimbursement for each lunch or snack served. Schools also receive USDA commodity food donations for lunches. The NSLP is required to provide one-third of the daily calorie, protein, calcium, iron, vitamin A, and vitamin E needs for participants through foods provided at lunch.
https://www.feedingamerica.org/take-action/advocate/federal-hunger-relief-programs/national-school-lunch-program
So the school district is financially incentivized to spend as little money on food as possible, because they get a fixed amount per meal, as long as it meets the minimum nutrition requirements. And the district gets to pocket the difference.
It's immoral and ridiculous.
'Absurd government bureaucracy soaks up most of the money,' no, the schools soak up most of the money, or it is used in providing the meals, which suck regardless of who is in the Oval Office.
We are talking about public schools here. The school is part of the government bureaucracy.
Feeding America, and No Child Hungry are horrible NGOs whose entire existences are dedicated to going from community to community to lobby state, local and federal governments to provide free lunch to kids. It is particularly horrible, because generally when you see people advocating on facebook donation-athons and other sites, they just make you think they are another charity "helping to feed kids." But they do no such thing. They help activists force taxpayers to feed kids.
Those organizations are half the problem with school lunches in the first place.
Erp, Correction: Feeding America is the good guys. I can't believe I lumped them in with No Child Hungry. They actually fund food banks around the country.
Dem candidate explains why we need the misinformation board through racism.
Rep. Darren Soto
@RepDarrenSoto
In an effort to tackle election mis/disinformation, we sent a letter to @TheJusticeDept asking how their Election Threats Task Force is focusing on Spanish speaking communities.
Spanish language voters are highly susceptible to misinformation and must be protected.
Congress feels as if they don't have enough perks as they give themselves free Peleton memberships and fond ways to directly get delivered liquor to their offices.
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/pelosis-house-ramps-perks-peloton-liquor-store-while-americans-scramble-baby
Hahaha, she's not called "Granny Winebox" for nothing.
Spanish language voters are highly susceptible to misinformation and must be protected.
¡Racista!
Oh wait, he is a privileged son born in America to an Italian mother and Puerto Rican father, attended preppy private schools, and dedicated his career to real estate law in the Orlando area. Bwahahahaha. As if he knew anything about the needs of newly arrived Latino immigrants and their hardships.
Tremendo maricon
In other words, some of them are starting to vote Republican because they know what happens when socialists take over.
Great! And now you're to write that if some schools can serve lunch that good, why can't they all, right?
Am I the only one who reads an endless whine in all this?
What was supposed to be so bad about those menus? Did you have stringers sampling them and reporting that the corn dogs were moldy or too salty? That the pizzas were burnt or still cold from the freezer? If not, stop condemning by mere imputation, and actually research and write something!
Maybe school lunches ought to be healthy, and not consist entirely of junk food. The occasional pizza and corn dog is fine, but not all the time.
"Ahem. Many of those schools are in Food Deserts."
Yet another reason why the school itself should focus on providing nutritious food.
Because society is incapable of creating and funding charities like food kitchens...
Everything you say calls for a growing government to provide people basic necessities instead of encouraging or teaching them how to do so independently.
Government compels attendance at these schools. In so doing, government creates for itself a duty of care for those whom it compels.
Now, HOW that duty of care may be fulfilled is of course an open question, and libertarians would argue that it should be fulfilled by the least coercive means possible.
But that duty of care still exists, whether you want to admit it or not.
Government compels attendance at these schools. In so doing, government creates for itself a duty of care for those whom it compels.
Cool! Free lunches at the Courthouse, and -- if we are truly civilized -- at the MVA!
News flash: if a jury is sequestered, the government pays for the meals of the jurors. So, yes.
So because government uses force, government should use force to provide and promote dependency as well.
Totally libertarian ideals jeff.
Okay, Jesse. Answer this: A student shows up at a public school, because he is compelled by force by the government to be there, but the student doesn't bring a lunch. Does the government have any obligation at all to that student with regards to food?
If you answer "no", then what about sequestered juries? What about prisoners? The government also compels those people by force to be in their places. Does the government have an obligation to feed them as well? Should the government say to prisoners, "you don't have enough money for food? well, you should have thought of that before committing the crime, we're not going to feed you for the duration of your prison sentence". Is that a just outcome in your view?
I predict you won't or can't answer these questions, because you are just a snarling junkyard dog, barking and yapping at intruders, without the motivation or the ability to actually engage in a good-faith dialogue. You will bark and snarl at me all day long but you won't actually promote a discussion. That is what you continually do every day.
Attempted rhetorical flourish and your assertions do not facts make. Though given your sophistry, the irony of your continued claims that anyone lacks the ability to engage in good-faith dialogue is quite thick. Nobody owes you an answer, and many simply mock you because you apparently believe you deserve one for simply showing up -in addition to the vast majority of your 'discuss' points being weak arguments.
I answered. Youre premises are self defeating because you're state loving fascist living in a life of failure.
It's almost like education shouldn't be compulsory, like a prison sentence.
It would also help if the whole project was outsourced privately at the local level, instead of nationalized. Let local schools hunt around for catering businesses willing to handle food distribution for a charitable write-off, or perhaps pursue local contracts. And if there's not enough money in the local school system to actually pay for food, they should consider cutting back on the ridiculous cost for administrative staffs, which have ballooned over the past two decades. And if there's still not enough money, you start going around for donations. And if there's still not enough money, you consider a local special-option sales tax.
(See, Jesse, THIS is the type of comment that adds to the discussion and is not just mindless snarling and barking.)
It's almost like education shouldn't be compulsory, like a prison sentence.
Well, if education is going to be compulsory, it should not compel attendance at a specific school for a specific period of time.
It would also help if the whole project was outsourced privately at the local level, instead of nationalized.
I totally agree. If there is any role for the feds at all, it should be for setting broad educational standards and that's about it.
And all of your ideas for how to get food to kids in school are great ideas worth considering. It is much better than just whinging about "lazy parents dependent on gubmint".
Lazy parents are also a problem. They're not taking responsibility for educating their kids, nor even for caring for them. Many of them just rely on public school as a free child-care service. It's a way to get rid of the kid from 8-3:30. They expect the government to do that for free in addition to giving them 1-2 meals. It's an abdication of parental duties to have a child and then expect the government to do that much to take care of them.
Jeff that is twice you chose a personal attack in a thread for which I do not spend all day.
Is this because you know how contradictory your thoughts are?
Your entire impetus here is to start from a solution of origin from the left an then attempt to rationalize it.
You have been called out for this and your sophistry by dozens of people here.
And again your defense of the premise is predicated on government force. Lol. You rely on an anti libertarian ideal to defend an anti libertarian ideal.
"Bark bark bark", goes Jesse the junkyard dog
So jeff can't answer. Stunning. Lol.
So you admit to projection. How quaint.
Jesse, everything you write about me is a bad-faith lie. That is why I call you as nothing more than a junkyard dog. Because when junkyard dogs encounter an intruder, the only things they know how to do are to snarl, bark and attack. That is what you do. You can't have a good-faith argument with me even if you tried. All you can do is to attack attack attack. Logical fallacies, outright lies, horrible accusations - doesn't matter, just attack. And the result is that your incessant attacks just pollute the entire discussion.
Lying Jeffy refuses to look in the mirror and ask himself why so many people call him dishonest.
The flaw in your reasoning, as I see it, is that you're asserting a positive right. In the case of a prisoner, the individual would die without any means of sustenance. Therefore, the government must not impede the individuals right to life.
In the case of compulsory schooling, children are only required to be in attendance for seven hours at a time. My children have survived many times without eating for seven hours. I'll agree wholeheartedly that schools should have to provide potable water, and breathable air.
Now, it's heartbreaking to see a kid who's going hungry, but that's where private actors and grassroots efforts come into play.
Further, if a child is not being fed, to the point of malnourishment, that's a very specific and actionable form of child abuse. Parents should be held accountable, not government.
My kid goes without food for about 7 hours every night
Over 12 hours later and no response from Lying Jeffy to this logical response to his question. While he’s responded repeatedly to posts that he claims as personal attacks.
If I didn’t know better I’d say Lying Jeffy is completely disingenuous in his claims he’s trying to have honest debate.
He is compelled to be there through force and often from democrats blocking school choice or attacking home schooling.
Youre premise relies on the action of government force when you then predicate the defense of secondary force as a defense.
Lol.
You didn't answer the question. I didn't think you would.
Bark some more, junkyard dog
You keep saying bark like it means something other than youre attempted belittlement. I answered you. Which words did you not understand? Do I need to talk about bears in trunks for you?
This was my question:
A student shows up at a public school, because he is compelled by force by the government to be there, but the student doesn't bring a lunch. Does the government have any obligation at all to that student with regards to food?
And your "answer" was:
He is compelled to be there through force and often from democrats blocking school choice or attacking home schooling.
So no you didn't answer the question, you deflected and reverted to DEMOCRATS BAD.
I mock you with barking because that is all your responses amount to. The emotional instinctual responses of a junkyard dog attacking an intruder. There is no thought or reason or logic behind the dog's actions. That is you, Jesse. You don't answer my questions, you don't even try to. My mere presence here constitutes an intruder that you the attack dog must bark and snarl against.
And just to be clear, I'm not whining that you continually attack me every single time. I'm way beyond that at this point. The purpose of the mockery is to point out to everyone else how your behavior is that of an unthinking animal. Whatever you write in response to me, doesn't matter the subject, it can be substituted with BARK BARK BARK and it would make just as much logical sense. A man with integrity might be ashamed by that type of characterization, but I don't expect you to be.
No to the first two. Yes to the prisoners. I'm sure you can figure out why.
The school should focus on producing literate graduates proficient in math and history with critical thing skills
Maybe people should take care of themselves instead of treating government as their daddy.
Sounds great! I wholeheartedly endorse that idea.
Sadly, however, there will always be some proportion of individuals who, for whatever reason, can't provide food for their kids. Then what?
Just above you ask why schools should produce dependency instead of teaching families how to budget and provide. This is after they already receive significant assistance such as food stamps. No, you do not agree with that.
You once said liberty can't exist until government provides enough charity at the level you believe is correct.
Charity institutions exist naturally and promote social cohesion. The Mormon church produces 1 billion of assistance to members and non members every year. The catholic church even more so.
You never advocate for private systems on these regards, you promote government dependency.
There is enough private charities to provide this food, sadly government regulates much of this away.
And if you are truly concerned there are not enough there is nothing stopping you from forming a charity with other like minded individuals to help aside from government.
My guess is you've contributed zero time or money to any charity preferring government to take and give to others instead.
You dont believe in libertarian principles.
You once said liberty can't exist until government provides enough charity at the level you believe is correct.
I never said anything of the sort. That is you lying once again. And if I had actually said anything like that, you would be posting the quote from your dossier on a daily basis to try to humiliate me. Since you don't, it strongly suggests that your claim is entirely false.
And I am totally fine with private charities. They do terrific work. If the government were to, say, contract with a charitable organization to provide food for the kids under their care who don't have enough food, that would be a terrific option, better than the status quo certainly. You advocate for something quite similar in your post above. That is a great idea.
https://reason.com/2022/05/14/americas-families-still-revile-usda-funded-school-lunches/?comments=true#comment-9493677
The point here though is that there must be some duty of care that the government must fulfill for these kids because the government COMPELS THEM BY FORCE to be there in the first place. It is no more "promoting dependency" to feed hungry kids that the government forces them to be at school in the first place, than it is "promoting dependency" to feed hungry prisoners that the government forces to be in prison in the first place.
Once again you've made this an entirely moral issue, with the government's obligations being determined by some hierarchy of moral worth. Those who are "lazy" don't deserve it in your view. That is backwards and wrong.
I thought I never answered you in the questions above.
And yes you have now 3 separate times defended government dependency through school lunches predicated on the use of government schools being forced through government.
The irony is you lie and rationalize your beliefs and have truly probably convinced yourself you are morally right. But your arguments are no better than any system of benevolent dictatorships.
I defended government not letting people starve who are in their custody by compulsory force. When the government feeds prisoners in prison, is that "defending government dependency"? Hmm?
For you this isn't about school lunches per se. It is about assigning moral blame to lazy parents.
It may surprise you, but when you subsidize contentment, you get more of it. Some prisoners will, inevitably, become content in prison if their situation becomes too nice.
Right. So assigning moral blame is more important than getting kids fed.
Jeff here continues to confuse individual responsibility and government responsibility, preferring the latter.
Jesse goes BARK!
Right. So assigning moral blame is more important than getting kids fed.
I'm sorry that your egalitarian beliefs override your limited government beliefs. But that's on you.
I don't favor using hunger as a weapon to teach a moral lesson. Sorry not sorry.
I don't favor using hunger as a weapon to teach a moral lesson. Sorry not sorry.
Right, you favor more taxes spent to justify your moral superiority.
I recommend contributing more every year, preferably 100% of wealth.
Who feeds them on the weekends?
Too bad there is no system where indigent families are sequestered in basic housing units and compelled to labor in exchange for food.
Did any of the quotes say that was lunch every day for the whole week? Even if it was, overall it doesn't read like junk at all.
Probably not every day. But if that is a random sampling, it seems rather bleak.
Maybe bleak to you, but as a child I would've thought of it as luxurious for cafeteria fare. The only ways it seems lacking are in the area of adult tastes. And even in that regard, it's only if the food is itself the main focus. When we order food to eat while playing our Illuminati games, it's like the stuff listed. Remember this is just something to squeeze into the middle of a school day; think like working lunches or refreshments at other events. It's not like people are going to go out specifically for it. (And even then, it seems like foods kids would find a cut above average.)
People who get snobby about "healthy" food in the cafeteria seem to forget that the least nutrition comes from food not eaten.
I wonder if this is a parallel to what I have been thinking about this conversation. If the school food is "heathy", but is also disgusting, kids just won't eat. That is a much worse than eating less healthy foods. In my school days, if the food sucked many of us just skipped lunch.
My kids love Obama. LOVE OBAMA. And they hate Michelle Obama with the burning passion of 1000 suns for what she did to their school lunches.
Did you explain that the Obamas are two sides of the same coin?
Also, what exactly do they love about Barry, besides image?
Do you *really* think that was a random sampling as opposed to cherry picked?
No, not really. But I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt.
If it was cherry picked, was it picked to make it look better, or worse? Because again, to me, those looked like the highlights.
We had pizza burgers at my school -- sort of a baked open sloppy Joe. Best day of the week.
And corn dogs should be banned.
"The occasional pizza and corn dog is fine, but not all the time."
Pizza is a fabulous food for kids. It packs all sorts of nutrition, vitamins, carbs and protein into a single hand-held food item. It is a myth that things like hamburgers, pizza and hotdogs are un-nutritious.
And that is notwithstanding the Turkey Croisant, Chicken Burgers, Chicken tenders and ham and cheese sandwiches. Add some fruit or vegetables on the side, and these are all the things kids need to have a perfectly fine day.
I am wondering if the author has or knows any children? What alternative lunches does he think should be served? That are "healthier" in his estimation? And does he understand that kids toss stuff like vegetables directly in the trash, untouched? I have worked in all levels of k-12 and they serve food that the kids might conceivably eat. It's a fools journey to try and make kids eat food they don't care for and aren't accustomed to eating at home.
Square school pizza back in my day was a treat
O/T: Some activism in New Jersey to try to repeal ridiculous gasoline dispensing laws in that state.
https://gothamist.com/news/77-nj-gas-stations-drop-prices-in-one-day-campaign-to-overturn-states-self-serve-ban
"Nice gas station youse gots there. Be a shame if sumpin happened to it."
And Andy Breckman on a pier in Jersey City solicited signatures on a petition to allow self service and abortions on demand.
"A compromise, then: self-service abortions."
I'm starting to hope that Roe v Wade survives. That way we keep threatening to take it away and watching the left go apeshit. Life just won't be the same without that stick to beat them with!
Yeah, but limiting infanticide is more important.
O/T: Good(?) news for you baldies out there. In Britain, getting called bald now means you have a sexual harassment claim.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/13/calling-a-man-bald-counts-as-sexual-harassment-uk-judge-rules.html
Three members of the tribunal who decided on the ruling, and alluded to their own experience of hair loss, said that baldness was more prevalent in men than women. Therefore, they argued that the use of the word “bald” as an insult related to a “protected characteristic of sex.”
Finn claimed that he was called a “bald c---” [, but] tribunal members [said] it was not the use of profanities that was the issue [: "In] our judgment Mr King crossed the line by making remarks personal to the claimant about his appearance.”
This *has* to be from The Babylon Bee!
I'd like to think it's intentionally trying to stir up shit to attack a ridiculous law. If the law can actually be applied this way, the law should not exist. The UK needs to destroy crap like this if they want their free speech back.
Yeesh what insecure incels. Imx at least half or more of women find baldness hot. And in particular the ones who are horny rather than ones who want hairdresser tips.
'The collective West has announced a total hybrid war on us. The consequences will be felt by everybody'
'So enjoy those school lunches while you still can!'
And just think, we have the cool and steady hand of SleepyJoe on the nuclear button.
These guys really misunderstand the depth of the paranoia engraved on the Russian soul over the last six hundred years.
The best thing that could've been done after the collapse of the Soviet Union would have been to wind down NATO and create a new mutual defense treaty, unrelated to the prior containment policy.
Post 90's NATO was a mistake.
O/T: News flash to Nardz and the Putin-lovers out there. This is the type of world that Russia wants to create.
https://www.newsweek.com/medvedev-russia-u-s-ukraine-sanctions-collapse-centric-1706364
However, he also suggested that the sanctions could be the spur to a new world order which Moscow has previously said it would welcome.
In it, he wrote how "new international alliances of countries based on pragmatic rather than ideological Anglo-Saxon criteria will be formed."
"As a result, a new security architecture will be created," he said. This would highlight, "the weakness of the Westernized concepts of international relations such as 'order based on rules'," Medvedev also predicted "the collapse of the idea of an American-centric world."
Newsflash to collectivistjeff racist groomer: you cannot survive on your own, and your days of preying on decent human beings will be ended
You mean a world in which the US minds it's own business and ISN'T the beat cop?
Gosh, that sounds positively like what Ron Paul has been preaching since forever ago.
An end to proxy, cold and pointless wars that serve no purpose for the US? That cannot be argued for from an individual liberties standpoint, unless one is a sophist? It does sound pretty good. Not really seeing how to fit the pro-putin angle w/o being biased to the point of ignorance, but I expect that is it.
Oh, that's not what he's saying.
So when Medvedev says "the collapse of the idea of an American-centric world", neocons will still be listened to?
Lavrov: "(the button) actually said 'Overcharge'"
"This is my last election, Dmitry. And after my election, I have more flexibility."
"When you were asked, 'What's the biggest geopolitical threat facing America,' you said 'Russia.' Not al Qaeda; you said Russia, and, the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because the Cold War's been over for 20 years."
Um, yes, this is exactly the problem. The west and the neocons are trying to accelerate this exact outcome. German industrialists are warning the German government that through their sanctions, they're essentially de-industrializing Germany. There is a war on the west right now, and most of it is coming from within. Putin is the barbarian coming through the gate while we debate our gender pronouns.
Perhaps there might be some way to direct our government to Make America Great Again... if I come up with something, I'll let you know.
Prosecutors of 2 BLM activists are seeking lenient sentences of 18 months for throwing molotov cocktails into police cars, half the PLEA BARGAIN sentences of J6 protestors who are on camera merely parading and committing no violence.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/05/blm-privilege-federal-prosecutors-seek-lenient-sentences-for-molotov-cocktail-lawyers/
This is a false equivalence. Of course any lawyer worth his/her salt is going to request the most lenient sentence for his/her client as reasonably possible. Get back to us when you are comparing ACTUAL sentences.
Where does collectivistjeff racist groomer live?
Do you know what the word "prosecutor" even means? Are you that dense?
Oh I misread that, I thought it was the defense lawyers seeking those sentences.
Care to revise your sentiment that this is some sort of false equivalence?
To be fair, I don't think is a terrible decision in New York. They'd be facing 4-5 years, they've already faced 2 years (though it's home confinement which...come the fuck on). Give them another two years without credit for time served and it's probably an accurate sentence.
It's just that prosecutors have not been so lenient with people who were merely present at the Capitol but breached an invisible Secret Service perimeter, and these guys actually did throw molotovs.
Oh come on, all they did was light some gasoline on fire and throw it in a glass jar so there would be some shrapnel. Improvised explosive devices are the language of the unheard.
An important form of their ethnic dance heritage.
If only Jeff had died in said fire...
No, you sought out a way to rationalize your belief in unequal treatment of what you perceive as enemies as compared to allies.
This is your problem jeff. The information is provided to you and then you act as a shit weasel to how to defend your leftist beliefs.
"Bark bark bark", goes Jesse the junkyard dog
Lol. This is just you admitting you fucked up and have no response.
I admitted above that I initially misread the statement.
But of course you, being nothing but a mindless junkyard attack dog, has to take it one more step and use it to attack me yet some more. Because you are nothing but an attack dog. Snarl snarl snarl, bark bark bark. That's all you do.
Lol. Again you rationalize your belief based on bullshit and sophistry.
Should non violent crimes ever be a higher prison sentence then violent ones?
Youre such a leftist fuck.
Should non violent crimes ever be a higher prison sentence then violent ones?
I think that would depend on the specifics of the crimes themselves, don't you think? Wouldn't that be the *rational* take here?
Wait I know, don't bother answering, because I already know your answer:
"Bark bark bark"
Wait I know, don't bother answering, because I already know your answer:
"Bark bark bark"
He's been answering you properly, you lying fuck. You can't even be honest about what others say, let alone yourself.
I imagine your boss will ask for his money back, when he sees your post quality.
And here's the poodle's response:
"Yip yip yip"
Ha, ha. Jesse completely kicked your ass. Now your eyes are red from anger and tears, and all you can do to keep it together is fantasize that you're being barked at.
Any man would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at you.
Sad. Just sad.
Yes. You have been. This is your new rhetoric when you have no other shit weasel hole to run into. Lol.
It is amazing watching you expose yourself constantly and try to deny it.
Nobody here is as dumb as you jeff. They all see what you are.
"This is a false equivalence."
How is it false equivalence, Jeff.
and committing no violence.
Hmm I seem to recall a discussion in the summer of 2020 when we discussed whether property damage constituted an act of violence. Is it?
Where does collectivistjeff racist groomer live?
Nardz, you are, as they say in Texas, "all hat no cattle". Before the Civil War, there was John Brown's raid. Why haven't you yet taken up the mantle of the 21st century version of MAGA John Brown?
Why haven't you slit your wrists yet?
I'm curious too. I know I would have.
2 billion in damages and nearly 30 people dead from leftist protests.
Now that is false equivalence shit weasel.
Jesse was pretty clear in who he was talking about.
You do know that the vast majority of the "rioters" were peaceful and didn't commit any property damage, right?
University now requiring all students to complete a DEI course in order to graduate.
https://campusreform.org/article?id=19552
But totally not teaching critical theory.
Jeff said it's just about history and slavery.
I suppose some progressives might speak truthfully when they say nobody is teaching CRT, at least as philosophical theory. But they sure as shit are teaching students how to conform to the desired outcome.
Even worse actions that don't exist per Jeff:
https://thepostmillennial.com/virginia-high-school-launches-justice-department-program-that-segregates-teens-into-homogenous-breakout-groups
Okay, Jesse, why don't you specifically state what is your issue with the SPIRIT program that you linked to above. Be specific, and cite the basis for your criticism.
This part, you fucking Nazi:
"A high school in Virginia high school requested curriculum from the Department of Justice (DOJ) that is designed to address and ease racial tensions, by calling attention to students' racial differences and segregating them according to those differences. Parents will be prohibited from attending."
I'm interested to see the rationale you attempt to make for it.
Nice try. Why don't you actually read the SPIRIT materials itself, not the slanted news article, and tell us what you find problematic about those materials specifically.
So you're saying that this; "is designed to address and ease racial tensions, by calling attention to students' racial differences and segregating them according to those differences. Parents will be prohibited from attending", isn't true? That the article is lying?
That the program isn't sorting kids by race?
Is that what you're claiming?
Will you point to where in the SPIRIT materials the curriculum calls for sorting kids by race?
Why don't you do the leg work since you are defending it? The article explicitly states parents would not be able to view the applied materials shit weasel.
Segragation. Race isolation. Why are you defending the plans of the KKK? Why do you want race as a focus of distrust and antagonism?
No specifics and no citation. How unsurprising.
Why are you leaping to conclusions?
I'm not defending shit. I'm asking you to actually fucking prove your case. Which you cannot do.
This is you in a nutshell:
Jesse: LOOK AT THIS HORRIBLE THING THAT IS HAPPENING
Me: Well, there aren't a lot of details here. Could you be more specific...
Jesse: IT'S A HORRIBLE THING WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THIS HORRIBLE THING?
Me: Maybe we should find out more details before we come to a conclusion...
Jesse: YOU'RE DEFENDING A HORRIBLE THING YOU'RE A BAD PERSON SNARL SNARL BARK BARK BARK
They are avoiding your question because they are stupid people who can only deal in slogans that fit the follower narrative and authoritarian leader they want. Dietrich Bonhoeffer described it in his prison letters.
55 years ago, an Iowa teacher and her third grade class in Iowa were part of an experience to teach about and demonstrate racism by separating the rural Iowa third graders into blue eyed and brown eyed kids. It didn't groom them into Critical Eye Color Theorists.
They are stupid people, it is true. But the worst part is that they proudly wish to remain stupid and ignorant. They won't even bother clicking through to the DOJ website itself to figure out what the program actually does. They don't WANT to know the truth. They just want to live in their ignorant stupid bubble of comforting lies where they are the "good guys" and the other tribe is the "bad guys".
Bonhoeffer said the same thing.
https://www.revolver.news/2022/05/biden-neocons-stop-funding-ukraine-current-thing-forever-war/
https://twitter.com/port71wick/status/1525488561784426497?t=LLWoQaNbbQCaYzbGENpfXQ&s=19
[Meme]
"San Francisco's Bay to Breakers will now give awards to nonbinary runners after outcry"
[...]
"LATEST May 13, 2:30 p.m. Bay to Breakers will now award nonbinary runners during Sunday's footrace, acknowledging that organizers "made a large oversight in our awards plan," the race's parent company confirmed to SFGATE a day after this story was first published...."
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-to-Breakers-no-nonbinary-awards-17169366.php
The "outcry" as a single 'victim' who whined to the Chron, and now the "outcry" will be from those who are 'sort of' women or 'kinda feel like' men.
In fact, it's easy to see there will be hundreds of awards, all as meaningless as the rest.
Participation trophies are back, baby!
Requiring participation is unfair! We demand universal trophies!
Just let everyone compete for the same awards, no categories. Problem solved.
How western countries are using the Russian Ukraine conflict to implement the tools to squelch dissent and control narratives.
https://mises.org/wire/russo-ukrainian-war-new-opportunity-demagogues-destroy-freedoms-home
Disagreement is Russian propaganda, Jesse. Preserving free speech means you're a Russian spy.
The French know how to do school lunches and use those as part of the teaching experience.
The only function of the central government is to redistribute some funds from richer districts to poorer.
Parents play a big role from setting the accountability to approving the menu selection. Being French of course, they take that seriously esp since lunch is the main meal of the day.
One result is that kitchens tend to be at the district while the school itself deals with plating, seating, cleaning, etc.
Primary school gets a four course meal with no student choice (high school gets a choice for each course)- a salad (eg cucumber salad w vinaigrette); hot entree w veggie side (eg salmon lasagna w spinach); cheese/dairy (eg yogurt w nuts or a piece of actual cheese and bread); dessert (meaning a fruit).
Cost is about 3.50 rather than 3.00 as here. But it's mostly the food cost. Parents pay from 25 cents to 6.00.
The kids learn how to eat veggies because that is what's on the plate when they are hungry and everyone in the cafeteria has the same thing on their plate then. Kids share tasks around that meal. They set the table, fill glasses with water, bus the table. And each 'setting' is 30 minutes to learn to eat slowly and associate food with socializing. Positive peer pressure.
I am continually astounded at how other places are able to do basic things like feed kids at schools, or conduct elections, or build infrastructure, much more effectively and efficiently than we here can in the US. The problem is of course in part the government itself, but that is not the entire problem, as evidenced by all of these other models of governments actually executing its duties reasonably well. In this country, I think the bigger problem is stupid government.
Don't you see the cultural difference? They're orienting the whole experience around lunch, which they make the main meal of the day. Here lunch is just a brief break from work, in case you've gotten hungry in the meantime. To me that menu reads like dinner, something to take your time with when you have the time, especially with family.
I went to P.S. 108, a block away from school, so I went home for lunch. Mother taught us to help too, but you think it was in some objective way better than an institutional lunch? It was usually a sandwich and a beverage, once in a while a piece of fruit too. Consider that in 45 minutes we had to walk home and back, make and eat that lunch, and usually we had some time left over to play. Don't try to make lunch into more than it is.
Basically the issue is just a near-trivial example to make fun of the inefficiency of government. What's the best they could possibly do, without compromising other goals? We don't want lunch to be the central focus of the day, like the French. We don't want some momentous democratic decision making among the parents over the menu. We don't want school to develop children's tastes. The fuck? The only reason school even needs a lunch break is because it's so inefficient it spreads out teaching into so many hours. Just shorten the school day and abolish the lunch break.
Oh, yeah, occasionally Mother had soup with it: Campbell's vegetarian vegetable. So it was no low-sodium dream.
We don't want schools to teach kids about different kinds of food? The fuck?
I have no doubt that if parents were involved in school lunch program, the result would look like the French. "I want a healthy lunch that someone else can prepare (since I don't know how and don't have the time). Oh and if one of those meals is a hit, I want the recipe."
What I don't understand is who actually is ok with just give them some crap with a brand name that the kids can take home and sell to their parents. Oh wait. Maybe I know exactly who is ok with that
Heh...like food science lab? Educate your taste buds?
More like - don't put parents into a rut because their kid basically eats fast food junk for lunch every day.
It is not a coincidence imo that France has among the lowest child obesity and we have high rates. That costs money too.
And btw - you shorten the school day and eliminate lunch, then which parent is going to have to get off work early. Ooh ooh what about single parents?
Are you Beaver Cleaver?
Yeah, well now you've hit there on another problem: the baby-sitting function of schooling, compromising the efficiency of each. Society (partly by governmental means, partly otherwise) has produced an environment wherein we no longer have a good thing to do with children. There's not enough to teach them to fill that time, even though we start doing so too young so we wind up teaching them the same over and over. We deem them unsafe or just a bother in the workplace. We've banished the grandparents out of middle-generation considerations.
And then the problem is that nobody can fix any of this without tearing it all down and starting over, even with today's technology. It'll probably be fixed accidentally soon by some other societal change; for instance, when productivity becomes so great that there's hardly any more need for work.
Oh, yeah, and the most recent superimposition: people being creeped out by non-structured interaction between children and unrelated adults.
re grandparents. Be careful what you wish for - you might get it.
Why an Indian couple is suing their son over grandchildren
Well, I don't know about abolishing lunch. But sure let's look at ways to reform the school calendar. Why are kids still taking classes according to an agrarian calendar? Let's think about year-round school. Let's think about creative ways to use the time that kids are in school. This can't really happen with a one-size-fits-all government-run model, which is why school choice is so important.
This is why I have moved back to a really locally driven system. Individual school based where the board/governance is almost neighborhood. They can contract services as wanted. They can easily implement/expand/contract charter classrooms within their neighborhood facility. If successful they can pull in students from surrounding neighborhoods. If they fail, they lose students. If demographics change, they can use the facility for adult education or some community center.
I know why we moved to a district based system in the 1950's - but we now have technology that can resolve those problems - and it's long overdue to get rid of the shitty side-effects that centralization caused.
I agree, the more local the better, and if public schools are to remain, the entire structure needs to be shaken up. We are still operating from an industrial/agrarian model of the academic classroom from 100 years ago and that is just stupid. There are so many innovations possible.
Are you nuts? Schooling takes up too much time as is. Society is vastly over-schooled, but still not smart enough. If you need to think of creative ways to use up time in school (or anywhere else), that should tell you it's make-work, i.e. a waste.
Obviously the time in school could be better spent as well.
Basically, I believe the first two years of a typical college curriculum should be pushed into the highschool. Then colleges could teach so much more.
For that matter, why do we still train kids at school like they're going to be moving into a factory job?
The Prussian system was the fucking tits 100 years ago when we needed to produce a bunch of people to make everything in an industrialized way, but it's simply idiosyncratic in today's global service based economy.
(I know factory jobs still exist, but the vast majority of kids are never going to work like that, at least not until the final take over.)
I completely agree that the model of education itself is outdated. The schools don't need to be on an agrarian calendar. The schools shouldn't be treating kids like they are going to get factory jobs. There are a LOT of reforms that need to happen with education.
I think the bigger problem is stupid government.
And yet you want more of it.
By "stupid government" do you really mean not enough government doing things the way you prefer?
Yes, other places do things differently, based on cultures, traditions, and priorities. These sometimes get codified into local and national laws. Perhaps you would be happier elsewhere.
He denies he wants government growth or dependency above as he continues to advocate for it here lol.
"Bark bark bark", goes Jesse the junkyard dog
Weren't you just whining about off-topic responses, ad hominem, etc?
Oh look, Jesse's lapdog poodle showed up.
Yes, because anyone who disagrees with you is Jesse's lapdog, right?
Guess what, everyone here disagrees with your Nazi ass. You're universally hated. I guess you're in a whole website of "Jesse's lapdogs", you fat, blue-haired, cry-baby fuck.
Yes, because anyone who disagrees with you is Jesse's lapdog, right?
Nope, just you. You do this quite often, rush to the defense of your tribal allies, in this case Jesse.
And funny how I can have civilized discussions with multiple people here who disagree with me, and they don't feel the need to call me a Nazi or go tell me to kill myself. That's just you and the psychotic Nardz types.
No, that's EXACTLY what YOU do, in every story, gaslighting and obfuscating away anything that might harm the image of Team Proggy
Just another typical day at Reason:
Some right-winger: LOOK AT THIS ARTICLE I FOUND THAT SAYS BIDEN DRINKS THE BLOOD OF BABIES, IT'S HORRIBLE!
Me: That sounds like an exaggeration. What are the details of the claims...
Skynet: WHEN YOU DON'T ACCEPT EVERY RIGHT WING CLAIM AT FACE VALUE THAT MEANS YOU ARE DEFENDING TEAM BLUE
*sigh*
No, it's the people.
Europhiles accept WAY more in taxes in exchange for those nicer things.
When will you contribute more than what you do now?
I think we have lost our ability to hold accountability. The scale may too much at the federal level. DeRp allows only two options - a bureaucrat controlled party and a party that hates government and wants it to fail and ensures those outcomes.
But yeah I really do agree. So many places can do basic things that we simply can't
Confession via projection, a pathological disease of leftists
Youre astounded that you want even more government dependency? I just said you wanted that above and you lied that you didn't.
In what grade do they get wine?
Roughly the same age that we get whine
2nd grade?
Reason, how dare you publish such a sexist and racist photo!!!
Forcing a girl* to drink from a pink container reinforces infinite negative stereotypes and crushes her personhood. And a brown container for an African-American boy? Don't you even anti-racist?
*Gender assignments are mere suggestions, and not to be used in legal contexts or school sports.
We often hear democrats use the phrase "you are on the wrong side of history." This is a phrasing to utilize and convince subjects to just accept unwanted actions from government. As Rothbard states:
It is also particularly important for the State to make its rule seem inevitable: even if its reign is disliked, as it often is, it will then be met with the passive resignation expressed in the familiar coupling of “death and taxes.” One method is to bring to its side historical determinism: if X-State rules us, then this has been inevitably decreed for us by the Inexorable Laws of History (or the Divine Will, or the Absolute, or the Material Productive Forces), and nothing that any puny individuals may do can change the inevitable. It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any outcropping of what is now called “a conspiracy theory of history.” For a search for “conspiracies,” as misguided as the results often are, means a search for motives, and an attribution of individual responsibility for the historical misdeeds of ruling elites. If, however, any tyranny or venality or aggressive war imposed by the State was brought about not by particular State rulers but by mysterious and arcane “social forces,” or by the imperfect state of the world—or if, in some way, everyone was guilty (“We are all murderers,” proclaims a common slogan), then there is no point in anyone’s becoming indignant or rising up against such misdeeds. Furthermore, a discrediting of “conspiracy theories”—or indeed, of anything smacking of “economic determinism”—will make the subjects more likely to believe the “general welfare” reasons that are invariably put forth by the modern State for engaging in any aggressive actions.
https://mises.org/library/rothbard-court-intellectuals
"We often hear democrats use the phrase "you are on the wrong side of history."..."
Asshole bigot's whine, besides.
And oddly enough, most of their examples from the wrong side of history were Democrats.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/community-family/only-groomers-defend-secret-conversations-with-children-about-sexuality
Wisconsin school district charges 3 8th graders for using wrong pronouns.
https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/kiel-wisconsin-school-charges-kids-for-using-wrong-pronouns/
Jeff, what is your defense of this?
I don't have a "defense of this". I think I would like to find out more information, particularly reading the school district's side of things, before coming to a conclusion. Wouldn't you?
Habitually around here, you cite only one side of a dispute, take it at face value, and demand others form sweeping conclusions based on only part of the story. Perhaps the more rational thing to do is to evaluate the evidence from all sides before forming a conclusion. Don't you think?
Not always. Sometimes it’s easy to see stupid ideas in action.
So youre defending it under the guise of not enough information you have no interest in procuring so you can continue to deny it.
So, no, you deliberately want to remain underinformed so that you may remain secure in your bubble of righteousness that the school is evil and the kids are being persecuted. Got it.
"underinformed"
The sources and citations were clear in that article. The school is pressing sexual harassment charges against kids who use the wrong pronouns.
Here's the Wisconsin Institute for Law letter to administrators at the Kiel School District to drop the Title IX complaint and investigation against three eighth-grade boys.
https://will-law.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/KASD-Title-IX-Mispronouning-Letter.pdf
You're such a weasel.
I think I would like to find out more information, particularly reading the school district's side of things, before coming to a conclusion. Wouldn't you?
The school district has filed a Title IX complaint for misgendering. What the hell do you imagine is different?
Are you interested in discovering what the school's side of the story is? What the *specific* allegations are? Don't you think that would be relevant info before forming a conclusion?
I thought you weren't defending this. Yet even after more information you continue to retreat to a defense by ignorance. Lol.
Jesse: HERE'S A LOPSIDED STORY ABOUT THIS HORRIBLE THING THAT IS HAPPENING
Me: Well, your article is rather one-sided. Perhaps if we knew the perspective of the other side we could form a more intelligent conclusion...
Jesse: HERE'S MORE INFORMATION JUST AS LOPSIDED AS THE FIRST TIME NOW WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THIS
Me: Well, that 'new information' doesn't really contain the perspective of the other side, that's what I was hoping to get so that I could see what was really going on...
Jesse: YOU'RE DEFENDING THIS HORRIBLE THING BARK BARK BARK
You know what your problem is Jesse? You really aren't all that smart. You have next to zero media literacy skills. Do you even know that the article you cited has only the information from one side in the dispute? I'm not even sure you realize that.
You know why everyone gives you shit jeff? Because you think the government could possibly have a valid argument for the "school's side of the story".
There is no "other side of the story" when it comes to the government pressing charges or filling Title IX complaints against school children. It's not something that should even ever become a news story.
You did the same thing a couple of weeks ago when the disinformation board was being discussed in the comments. There is no defense of either scenario, even as a devils advocate, because they shouldn't even exist in the first place.
I mean, if you actually believe in individualism or liberty that is.
This may come as a shock to you, but occasionally, partisan media outlets will lie. They will either lie directly, or, more commonly, they will lie by omission, in order to push a particular narrative. Left-wing partisan media does it, and right-wing partisan media does it too. So whenever I see any article from a partisan media outlet - and around here, most commonly, it is from a right-wing outlet - I am immediately skeptical, and I won't accept their claims at face value. So neither with this article, nor with the articles about the Disinformation board, I am not defending anything. I am simply not accepting the right-wing claims at face value.
So I do not believe for one moment that the article linked above represents the whole truth of what happened at that school. My hunch - again it is just a hunch, because I don't really know the whole story either - is that whatever disciplinary actions that these kids are facing, it is for disruptive behavior SURROUNDING the issue of pronouns, not specifically about pronoun usage per se. The article certainly implies that there was some type of shouting match that occurred.
Imagine if Reason had published an article about parents of kids at some conservative private school complaining about their kids being disciplined by the school for, say, "disrespecting the flag". Before deciding who is in the right or wrong, wouldn't you AT LEAST want to know what specifically that "disrespect" was? And wouldn't you expect Reason as a media outlet to at least make some effort to try to figure it out? If Reason had published an article that only presented the parents' point of view, you would rightfully accuse them of lopsided sloppy journalism. So why should we have lower standards for the other media outlets?
Soon they will get nothing but synthetic meat and bugs to eat. Kids will dream of eating moldy pizza.
the real school lunch heroes, in my opinion, are the parents and kids speaking out against the wasteful National School Lunch Program
Are they on the FBI's terrorist watch list yet?
O/T: Amazing story. Passenger successfully lands plane with no experience.
https://www.wesh.com/article/darren-harrison-lands-plane-florida/39989892#
It's easier when you don't have to try to get over Macho Grande.
Truth.
Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0WdJx-Wkw
O/T: Transgender medication law in Alabama blocked by judge
https://apnews.com/article/health-alabama-gender-identity-d01d4e362647b28800da7a378041371c
Here's what the "radical left-wing" judge wrote in his opinion:
“Enjoining the Act upholds and reaffirms the ‘enduring American tradition’ that parents—not the states or federal courts—play the primary role in nurturing and caring for their children,” Burke wrote in the opinion.
Can you believe it? The nerve of that guy!
From your link:
A federal judge on Friday blocked part of an Alabama law that made it a felony to prescribe gender-affirming puberty blockers and hormones to transgender minors
There is no such biological truth to “transgender minor(s)”. They are either XX or XY, and until they reach the age of 25, their brain and endocrine / hormonal system are not fully developed. To intervene prior on a surgical and pharmacological basis = corruption of a minor. It is abusive and injurious for an adult to intervene in the biological development of a child, even if that child is their offspring.
No no, I totally get it.
Right-wingers: Parents should not be looking to Daddy Government to take care of their own kids. Why can't they just feed their own kids like they are supposed to?
Also right-wingers: Parents can't be trusted to take care of their own kids when it comes to gender issues. Only the government knows best.
No no, we totally get it. You think parents should also be able to fuck their kids.
Snarl and bark, Jesse!
Haha, let the mad flow, Jeff.
Jesse is exactly right, you're saying that a parent gets to decide if the plastic surgeon can castrate the child, or that the neighbors can fuck them. People like you are why age of consent laws exist.
It fits in with the demand for 66th trimester abortions.
Jesse of course takes it to an absurd extreme - not wanting the state to ban a valid medical procedure is not equivalent to wanting to legalize pedophilia. He has no other argument though, other than his moralizing one so he has to resort to this type of slippery slope nonsense.
"not wanting the state to ban a valid medical procedure"
Castrating children isn't a valid medical procedure in any universe, you snake. Only absolute monsters can pretend it is.
I wonder how jeff feels about those assholes who remove the girls clit so she can't get any pleasure from sex.
They're assholes. But that is also not the same as gender affirming care.
I figured as much, I don't think you're a total monster. However, castration isn't care, no matter how you dress it up.
However, castration isn't care, no matter how you dress it up.
Neither you nor I am in a position to judge for others what ought to be "acceptable" care.
Oh really? So you are arrogant enough to claim to know with absolute certainty how every person with any type of ailment ought to be treated?
Maybe medical decisions should be left up to parents, children, doctors, counselors and therapists.
You've made it quite clear now that you're motivated primarily by moral considerations.
You *most strongly* object to school lunch programs not because the government runs it per se, not because it uses tax money, not because the food is crap and/or the food is wasted, but because it promotes moral degeneracy on the part of parents becoming dependent on the government.
You *most strongly* object to gender affirming care for teenagers not because you don't think kids are ill and need treatment per se, but because you think it's immoral for anyone to engage in that type of behavior.
This is the origin of your supposed "libertarianism": moral condemnation of those horrible people making immoral choices. The proper government is the one which enforces correct moral choices - sometimes it is "small government" (no school lunches), sometimes it is "big government" (banning medical decisions of doctors), but it is about morality. In reality that just makes you a so-con whether you want to admit it or not.
^ This is a classic Jeff trick, folks. He redefines someone elses argument and changes terms and meaning to something he can actually refute, and then attacks that.
He's not known as Lying Jeffy for nothing.
Maybe you should let Jesse speak for himself.
I'm sure he will, but I so completely dispise you and everything you stand for, that I can't let your garbage stand unchallenged even for a second.
That's not true. You're white-knighting for Jesse as the loyal lapdog that you are.
ML nailed it. I also described your tactics above. This is why you've been called a shit weasel for years.
LOL whatever. Your biggest concern in this entire discussion was about government dependency. You have made that abundantly clear. The welfare of the kids is entirely secondary in your mind. So what if kids are hungry at school? The important thing is that they aren't dependent on government! You want to use literal hunger to teach kids, and their parents, a moral lesson. That is sick and depraved and wrong. But that's you, Jesse.
“Enjoining the Act upholds and reaffirms the ‘enduring American tradition’ that parents—not the states or federal courts—play the primary role in nurturing and caring for their children,” Burke wrote in the opinion.
Oh boy, this ruling is going to be problematic. The "parents" have primacy now? Okayyyyy. I guess it's back to the school board meeting to tell these Marxists to shut the fuck up and quit feeding my child a radical trans agenda.
Is it time yet to dismantle Commie-Education??
Or at the very least; Keep it out of Federal and State hands?
We had great school lunches in grade school, growing up in the '80's.
Then again, I never went to a government school, and the lunch ladies were moms of current students.
Here's the answer: every school should have a cook make a pot of beans and rice every day. Give it away free. Students who are actually hungry will eat it. Those who don't want it can brown bag it. Cost per serving about 20¢.
But then every room in the building becomes unoccupiable, the toilets overtaxed, and you make up the savings in extra toilet paper. No, not every child's digestive system will have that problem, but enough will to have that effect.
And give them pineapple too, so they can play Ha'waiian music. 😉
All Michelle wanted was healthy kids. You’re all not good enough for her.
Good intentions + ignorance + government power = disaster.
Basically summed up Jeff's entire argument structure. Minus the disaster part. He calls it charity and morality.
Good intentions? Assuming facts not in evidence
countless Americans around the country celebrated School Lunch Hero Day
If I ever do something like run into a burning building to save a bunch of orphans, please don't call me a hero.
I'm sorry, but you can't achieve equity without central planning. So it is what it is.
Speaking of bad food… let’s propose a hypothetical. You are a girl with a vagina (gross!). Instead of eating your moldy green pizza slice you judiciously decide to optimize your time by fucking your boyfriend. Then you get pregnant. If you live in Mississippi or Arkansas or Tennessee, you are about to learn the difference between being literally and metaphorically fucked.
https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roe
(That’s another reason I belong to the GOP. It’s the life lessons they teach us)
… which I’m fine with. As a gay, Black man who is GOP proud like Caitlin and Milo I understand that libertarianism is pretty much whatever the GOP tells us it is and that freedom of speech and assembly is defined as preventing laws designed to prevent homocidal maniacs from buying an Uzi. Oh yeah… I forgot… it’s also to prevent our fascist overlords at Twitter from banning someone who advocates daily anal probing with horse paste. However, I’ve heard that Mr. Peter Isherwell is going to solve this last problem— maybe— in the near future. Thank God!
"You are a girl with a vagina (gross!)"
Is this really what you think gay people are like, Shrike?
The reason why you can't be OBL is because you can't understand the difference between parody, stereotyping and strawmanning.
Fuck you.
I own my posts. I don't even read that posters bullshit.
It's pretty apparent you don't read a majority of your posts, Dajjal.
Lol everyone knows it is you and knows you have socks.
Another right wing terror attack in the USA:
https://apnews.com/article/buffalo-supermarket-shooting-442c6d97a073f39f99d006dbba40f64b
BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) — A gunman wearing military-style clothing and body armor opened fire with a rifle at a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, killing at least 10 people before being taken into custody Saturday afternoon, law enforcement officials told The Associated Press.
He left a manifesto in which he praised other right wing terrorists like Dylann Roof and others. Hundreds of murders by right wing terrorists like the Pittsburgh anti-Semite and El Paso killers.
The violence from the right is appalling.
Yes, I know about the Monkey Wrench gang.
Something tells me that the guy will yet again turn out to be some protected minority or disaffected lefty, and yet again the media and Shrike will suddenly memory hole it.
Like the creep who rushed Dave Chappelle on stage
His name is Payton Gendron and he was motivated by Fox News' Tucker Carlson and the 'Replacement Theory' CT.
https://www.dailynews.com/2022/05/14/at-least-10-dead-in-mass-shooting-at-buffalo-supermarket/
The propensity of conservatives to believe in any lie foisted by wingnuts is alarming.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374035/Pope-John-Paul-II-assassination-attempt-carried-Islamic-terrorists-says-Polish-communist-leader.html
Assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II carried out by Islamic terrorists
The assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II was carried out under orders from Islamic terrorists, Poland's last communist leader has claimed.
The Polish-born pope almost died in the attempt when Turkish sniper Mehmet Ali Agca shot him with four rounds in St Peter's Square in the Vatican in 1981.
An official inquiry into the shooting blamed Soviet-sponsored assassins who wanted the pope dead because of his support for the democracy movement Solidarity.
Fuck Islam. I hate all right wingers - especially Islamo-fascists. I also hate Christo-Fascists. But Islam is the most vile belief system ever - closely followed by Christo-fascists.
You don't know who you are debating here. I am no progressive. I despise Islam and all Fasicst Belief Supremacists.
There is no religious "truth". Religion is a lie and Islam is the most vile of all lies.
Now take your "you must be a progressive Islam apologist" and shove it up your ass.
Okay, KAR, but that wasn't his point. His point was wrongful misascription of blame.
He attacks fox News in his manifesto you retarded shut. And describes himself as authoritarian left. Lol.
I just knew Shrike was fucking up. He has a remarkable ability to beclown himself with everything he posts.
Him and Jeff can't help themselves. Just utter fools. Shocked sarc isnt here joining in.
I have a life outside Reason.
Now do SUVs and parades.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251210/senator-tim-scott-responds-to-janet-yellens-claim-that-abortion-helps-low-income-black-women
When Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen claimed that abortion economically helps women — including low-income, Black women — one senator challenged her with his personal story.
“I’ll just simply say that, as a guy raised by a Black woman in abject poverty, I am thankful to be here as a United States senator,” Republican Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina said Tuesday.
He made his comments during a May 10 hearing held by the U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. At the hearing, Yellen testified as a witness and claimed that abortion enables women to succeed in the workforce.
“Telling Black teenage moms that there’s only one alternative for them is a depressing and challenge message,” he said. “What I’m talking about is the importance of understanding the reality that even during tough financial times in households like the one I was raised, there is still hope.”
He ended, “I’m simply saying that the experience of so many of us, millions of us, in poverty, I conclude is a reason to be hopeful about what’s possible even for those incredibly powerful positive women making really hard choices.”
The argument that women rely on abortion to succeed economically is a common one made by abortion supporters.
Uh oh shrike. You fucked up again. He described himself as mild authoritarian left and attacks fox news in his manifesto.
https://mobile.twitter.com/stillgray/status/1525608850216615936
Payton Gendron will become the right's latest hero much like Dylann Roof, the New Zealand mass murderer, the Norway mass killer, and many others who push Aryan Supremacy. Even Tim McVeigh is getting his fan club revival.
This is sad. But as long as the right sees political revolution as a "2nd Amendment" remedy it will go on and on.
He is of the left... lol.
God damn youre a fucking idiot.
Now that he turned out to be yet another lefty, when I quote your post on Monday will you cry.
No, he'll deny reality, just like he does every single time it's shown that these motherfuckers aren't actually on the right side of the spectrum.
The Pro-Aborts recently bombed a Pro-Life Center in Wisconsin, allegedly incited by Nancy Pelosi. Their terrorizing the Justices at their homes recently, in violation of Federal law, is well documented. Justice Thomas and all Americans should expect further escalation by the Pro-Abort anarchists. We should also expect the US Dept of Justice and Attorney General Garland to not do anything about these increasing acts of lawlessness except uttering platitudes. We are at war.
“Wisconsin pro-life group calls out Pelosi’s inciteful rhetoric after Molotov cocktail attack”
Wisconsin Family Action’s headquarters vandalized and hit with Molotov cocktail
Fox News Staff
May 10, 2022
It would surprise Robert Payne, the FBI Special Agent in Charge assigned to this arson case that his involvement is considered to be “uttering platitudes”.
We're constantly surprised at how bad federal government workers are at their jobs.
So, we are going from “I know the Biden administration won’t pursue this” to “I know they’ll do a poor job pursuing it”. All I’m asking is maybe the right wingers here check their beliefs against facts before they opine.
The suspect put his gun to his own neck, at which point two Buffalo officers talked him into dropping his gun and then took off some of his tactical gear and surrendered to police, officials said. Police arrested the suspect and transported him to Buffalo police headquarters.
What a fucking coward. Put this fucking asshole in a 5-5 cell for life.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/14/us/buffalo-ny-supermarket-multiple-shooting/index.html
Now that we know he's a lefty will we ever see CNN mention this horrific shooting again?
Strongly disagree. They should absolutely be blamed for those examples given. They may not select or buy the food, but they do store, prepare, and serve it. If they're *really* being supplied moldy/spoiled/infested food they should be bringing this up to their supervisor and then at a school board meeting if it's not promptly fixed, not simply serving it in silence.
But I wonder if it's really coming to them that way. After all, not all districts have this sort of problem, you know? Seems like the more likely explanation is that the lunchroom staff is mishandling the food.
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1525649454568710145?t=jyk_o5U3FKeMIbPdCljVGQ&s=19
Here's the "Senior Investigative Reporter and Spokesperson" at the Southern Poverty Law Center calling for Twitter censorship if you observe that the Buffalo shooter plastered the notorious "Black Sun" symbol -- a favorite of the Azov Battalion -- at the very top of his manifesto
In other words, the symbol displayed by the shooter at the top of his twisted manifesto is the same symbol displayed in the *official insignia* of the foreign military battalion that everyone's currently supposed to be lionizing as brave defenders of democracy. Those are facts
By the way, there was another pro-Azov rally this afternoon in NYC
Oh and here's another Southern Poverty Law Center person explaining that the reason they stopped responding to my queries -- I asked if they had any comment about these pro-Azov street rallies -- is because I'm a "dork." So that's the SPLC for you
[Links]
And some stories mention that the shooter was motivated in part by the Waukesha Parade SUV accident.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10818255/Buffalo-gunman-Waukesha-Parade-victim-rifle-killed-10-racist-spree.html
Major difference in reporting on this one compared to subway shooting and Waukesha.
Shooters race and racial/hate crime motivations immediately on blast, with tons of articles all day long on there.
Which is funny, because the other two scenarios mentioned got memory holed in a day and we specifically didnt hear how it was a hate crime or racially motivated.
...I wonder what the difference was...
I attended 5 different schools growing up. 2 of them had really good cooks. I have no problem calling them heroes.
When government decides that everyone gets a crutch, everyone uses a crutch
I have an idea.
Stop the government meal program altogether.
There is no city or wide spot in the road called Lake Tahoe NV. Also Lake Tahoe is in two states, Kalifornia & Nevada. For land use & environmental regulation Congress crated a two state government agency, the TRPA, Tahoe Regional Planing Agency that had rules about cleaning up pine needles around structures that caused the hugely destructive Angora fire in South Lake Tahoe. After the fire that burned many many homes the chief of the SLT fie department laid the blame for the destructiveness at the doorstep of the TRPA. The TRPA loosened the regs to encourage property owners to clear 30' around structures of combustible materials. Their ruls are so strict that you have to get a permit to remove a dead tree with 8" dia or larger trunk. An example of exorbitant fee is in 2016 it cost a nonrefundable $2000 just to ask if you can build a deck. If they green light the deck you still have to pay the city or county for a building permit. On the Nevada side the building permit fees are cheap compared to in Kalifornia.