A Judge Finds a 'Substantial Basis' for the Claim That Fox News Recklessly Promoted Trump's Election Fantasy
The decision allows Smartmatic to proceed with its defamation lawsuit against Fox, two anchors, and Rudy Giuliani.

Smartmatic USA (SUSA), a Florida-based voting technology company, had a very limited role in the 2020 general election: a single contract with Los Angeles County. But Smartmatic loomed much larger in the imaginations of Trump campaign lawyers Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, who repeatedly claimed the company had supplied fraud-facilitating software to Dominion Voting Systems as part of an elaborate conspiracy to steal millions of votes for Joe Biden.
Fox News played a conspicuous role in promoting that tall tale, which is why SUSA sued the cable channel for defamation in February 2021, seeking $2.7 billion in damages. Fox argued that it was protected by freedom of the press because it was merely covering the president's allegations of election fraud. But this week, a New York judge ruled that Smartmatic can proceed with its claims against Fox News, former Fox host Lou Dobbs, and current host Maria Bartiromo.
In his 61-page decision, New York County Supreme Court Judge David B. Cohen also rejected Giuliani's motion to dismiss Smartmatic's claims against him. Cohen granted Powell's motion, accepting her argument that SUSA had not established a New York nexus sufficient to justify suing her there. He also dismissed the claims against Fox host Jeanine Pirro, finding that just one of her allegedly defamatory statements pertained specifically to Smartmatic and that she described it as a claim made by Donald Trump's lawyers.
SUSA's complaint made a strong case that Dobbs and Bartiromo had not merely conducted softball interviews with Powell and Giuliani but had repeatedly lent credence to their wild claims, often presenting them as fact. They continued to do so even though the allegations were plainly at odds with reality, even though their own colleagues at Fox (including news reporters and commentator Tucker Carlson) had noted the lack of evidence to support Trump's conspiracy theory, and even though government officials and cybersecurity experts had dismissed the idea that compromised vote-tabulating machines could have swung the election to Biden.
As Cohen notes, Dobbs claimed on the air that "SUSA and Dominion sent votes out of the country to be counted so that the results would not be auditable"; that "Dominion worked with SUSA, a voting technology company with ties to former Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez"; that "what President Trump's legal team was discovering about Dominion and SUSA gave rise to 'probable cause for a complete and thorough investigation'"; that "SUSA 'electronically chang[ed] votes in the 2013 presidential election in Venezuela'"; and that "SUSA had 'documented issues with [its] voting machine software.'"
Dobbs reinforced these allegations on Twitter, where he "accused Dominion and SUSA of 'Democrat electoral fraud,'" reported that "Powell said she had 'firsthand evidence' that SUSA's software was designed to change votes without detection," and "said that Powell had revealed 'groundbreaking new evidence indicating that [the election] came under massive cyber-attack orchestrated with the help of Dominion, [SUSA], and foreign adversaries.'"
Bartiromo, meanwhile, "said that, according to a 'source,' SUSA's software had a 'back door' used to determine how many votes needed to be switched to rig an election," asserted that "SUSA's software changed votes from President Trump to President Biden," "showed a graphic of swing states in which SUSA software was allegedly used, despite having no evidence to support her statement," and "showed a graphic on the screen indicating that Dominion machines were used in the 'swing' or 'battleground' states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin." She "simultaneously said that SUSA's software was used in those jurisdictions as well, despite the fact that it was only used in Los Angeles County, California."
If these statements are false, Cohen notes, they "are defamatory per se insofar as they concern plaintiffs' 'trade, business or profession' and suggest that they committed a serious crime." Under New York law, which provides extra protection in defamation cases for statements on issues of public concern made in a public forum, SUSA also has to prove "actual malice," meaning that Dobbs and Bartiromo either knew these claims were false or showed "reckless disregard" for their accuracy. In both cases, Cohen found, SUSA "adequately pleaded a substantial basis" for actual malice.
"Dobbs' extremely serious claims that SUSA sent votes out of the country to be counted, that SUSA changed votes in the Venezuelan election of 2013, that there was probable cause to investigate the company, that SUSA's software was designed to change votes without detection, and that SUSA was involved in a cyberattack on the election could be found to be 'so inherently improbable that only a reckless person would have put [them] in circulation,'" Cohen writes. And although Dobbs referred to Powell's "firsthand evidence" and "groundbreaking evidence," he was "conspicuously silent regarding what this evidence was or who provided it." He therefore "could be found to have had obvious reasons to doubt the truthfulness of what Powell told him."
As for Bartiromo, Cohen notes that her "representation about a 'back door' may be a fabrication insofar as she did not name the 'source' she referred to." He also says "her claim that SUSA's software converted votes for President Trump to votes for President Biden, if false, could be found 'so inherently improbable that only a reckless person would have put [it] in circulation.'" Cohen adds that "Bartiromo's representation that SUSA software was used in Dominion machines in swing states which, according to plaintiffs, it was not, implied that the software helped President Biden steal the election from President Trump."
After Smartmatic threatened to sue Fox on December 14, 2020, Fox News and Fox Business aired a corrective, prerecorded interview with election security expert Eddie Perez during Lou Dobbs Tonight, Justice with Judge Jeanine, and Mornings with Maria. "I have not seen any evidence that Smartmatic software was used to delete, change, alter anything related to vote tabulation," Perez said.
Perez noted that Smartmatic software was used only in Los Angeles County during the 2020 election and that the company is independent from Dominion, whose machines were used to process votes in 28 states. He rebutted the idea that U.S. votes had been tabulated in foreign countries and the charge that Smartmatic had been banned in the United States because officials concluded it was untrustworthy.
In SUSA's view, this was too little, too late. Cohen seems inclined to agree. Although Fox News, Dobbs, and Bartiromo cited the Perez interview as evidence that they were covering Trump's "Big Lie" in a fair and evenhanded manner, Cohen nevertheless ruled that SUSA had provided "a substantial basis" to claim that all three had recklessly reinforced claims they should have known were false.
Cohen was similarly unimpressed by the fact that Dobbs had told his viewers about an email in which SUSA noted its limited role in the election. "Dobbs cannot be exculpated simply because he mentioned that SUSA denied his comments," Cohen says. "Moreover, since Dobbs continued to disseminate allegedly false information about SUSA after he told his viewing audience about the emails, there is a substantial basis for SUSA's allegation that he acted with reckless disregard for the truth."
More generally, Cohen says, "Fox News cannot escape liability merely because the Fox anchor defendants occasionally mentioned that SUSA denied their representations." He cites a 1964 case in which the New York County Superior Court dismissed as "patently absurd" the "suggestion that a libel be excused because a denial made by the subject thereof is also published."
Cohen says the plaintiffs "correctly rely" on a 1989 decision in which the U.S. Supreme Court held that, "although a failure to investigate will not alone support a finding of actual malice, the purposeful avoidance of the truth is in a different category." The Court said a plaintiff could establish actual malice by showing that the defendant's "inaction was a product of a deliberate decision not to acquire knowledge of facts that might confirm the probable falsity."
Fox News argued that its absence of malice was evident from its repeated requests that Powell and Giuliani provide evidence to support their allegations. "This fact," Cohen notes, "can also support plaintiffs' claim that Fox News had reason to suspect that what it was broadcasting was false, and nevertheless continued to allow Powell and Giuliani to appear on its network, specifically on shows hosted by Dobbs, Bartiromo, and Pirro, to promote completely unfounded claims that plaintiffs' software enabled President Biden to steal the election." Even if Fox News did not deliberately promote lies, Cohen says, "there is a substantial basis for plaintiffs' claim that, at a minimum, [it] turned a blind eye to a litany of outrageous claims about plaintiffs, unprecedented in the history of American elections, so inherently improbable that it evinced a reckless disregard for the truth."
Powell, who lives and practices law in Texas, was the main exponent (next to Trump himself) of the claim that Biden had stolen the election through a baroque conspiracy that involved not only Smartmatic and Dominion but also George Soros, the Clinton Foundation, and the governments of Venezuela, Cuba, and China. In the Smartmatic case, she claimed "she believed the allegations then and she believes them now," although in other contexts she has said she was not actually making factual assertions or that she was just conveying her clients' claims.
Powell nevertheless is off the hook in this particular case—although not in Dominion's $1.3 billion lawsuit against her, which also names Giuliani as a defendant—because her main connection to New York was her interviews on Fox News, which is based there. Cohen deemed those appearances insufficient to established personal jurisdiction over Powell. But Giuliani, who lives in New York and practiced law there until his license was suspended last June based on his promotion of Trump's stolen-election fantasy, was not so lucky.
"Giuliani's barrage of statements about SUSA adequately provide a substantial basis for its claim that he acted with actual malice insofar as he evinced a reckless disregard for the truth of his statements and/or a high degree of belief that the said information was false," Cohen writes. He notes that Giuliani, among other things, claimed "SUSA was founded 'for the specific purpose of fixing elections. That's their expertise. How to fix elections.'" Giuliani also claimed that "SUSA's software was used in other countries to steal elections and that it had 'tried and true methods for fixing elections.'"
Cohen rejected Giuliani's argument that he cannot be held liable for such statements because he made them in the context of representing Trump. "Giuliani's contention that his statements are protected by an absolute litigation privilege is without merit," Cohen says. "Although Giuliani made the allegedly defamatory statements at the time he was representing President Trump in litigation related to the election, the statements were made on Fox News and thus were not 'defamatory words spoken in a judicial proceeding.'"
Giuliani, of course, can still defend himself against Smartmatic's and Dominion's defamation claims by showing that what he said was true. That should not be a problem, since he has repeatedly declared that the scheme he described was "easily provable" and that he had "conclusive proof" of "machines that are crooked" and "ballots that are fraudulent." Although Giuliani never managed to produce that evidence in any of the Trump campaign's post-election lawsuits, he has a strong incentive to dig it up now.
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The lawsuit against the anchors will go nowhere because we have precedent for this.
It's called the Rachel Maddow defense. NYT has also used it.
Network news anchors should be held to a higher standard, and expected to use disclaimers when repeating currently unproven claims, against anyone.
Lawyers should be able to allege whatever they want. If they can't prove it in court, they lose.
"Network news anchors should be held to a higher standard, and expected to use disclaimers when repeating currently unproven claims, against anyone."
The devil here is in the details. 50 years ago it was possible to define a "network news anchor". The "Fairness Doctrine", enacted in 1949 (and removed in the 1980s), required certain behaviors of licensed broadcasters (who provided "network news anchors"). Broadcasters were licensed because they used a public, and very limited, commodity, the radio frequency spectrum, known as the "public airwaves". These airwaves are still basically limited technologically in the same manner they were in 1949. However, with today's technology of almost unlimited bandwidth provided by fiber optics in the ground, enabling the capability of literally anyone to broadcast and receive content (such as Reason provides and its readers consume via this website), it would be impossible to license broadcasters without inducing the government to license speech itself. This is the conundrum that this technology has brought to us.
Dobbs and Bartiromo aren’t news anchors. They host opinion programs. Not the same thing.
The lawsuit against the anchors will go nowhere
Without question. So why is Sullum making a big deal about it? Oh, right, denial is a key diagnosis of TDS.
He hasn't had a trump election article in a few months. The withdrawals were too much.
He still ignores the more than 2 dozen decided cases on illegal election changes or the investigation into nursing homes in Wisconsin.
Interesting timing specifically because of the Wisconsin nursing home story.
Yeah, Trumplicans like to bring up TDS. They bought his lies hook line and sinker and then claim others have TDS. Pot meet kettle.
When I typed your name, spell check gave me three options, I'm going with "confused".
He’s just another fed stooge.
As usual, the accusation of TDS, most of the time, is projection.
Fuck you fatass. You’re a lying little shitweasel., and everyone knows it. Your only ally here is Buttplug, and he’s a pedophile.
Why your still come here is a mystery. You have zero credibility and are universally reviled.
^^^
Yep, do concur.
Since I was mean to him, I suspect he’s elbows deep in a bucket filled with many, many tubes of raw cookie dough.
I'm wondering if he's even able to read the Wisconsin report accusing Zuckerberg of election bribery and one of Zuckerberg's employees of election fraud.
https://legis.wisconsin.gov/assembly/22/brandtjen/media/1552/osc-second-interim-report.pdf
This time it’s different. I’m sure you can guess why.
(Let’s completely ignore that EVERY network ran coverage of all of these claims.)
They borrowed it from Tucker Carlson, and I"m not sure he's the first to have used it.
Maddow did add the wrinkle that her use of the word "literally" before making the statements at the center of her lawsuit was a clear indication that she wasn't presenting that particular statement as "literal truth".
Now that facebook/Meta's lawers have put for the argument that their "fact checks" which are attached to certain selected posts are actually "protected opinions", we may have to roll to a new edition of the Newspeak dictionary.
If this suit goes through, will it be usable as a precedent for action against the outlets that pushed the "russiagate" narriative as true for three years (maybe Mueller can sue some of them for claiming he was part of the cover-up when his report failed to take down the bad orange man)? Or at least to CNN who spent 18+ months pushing the "fine people hoax" despite the counter-proof of their claims having aired live on their own network?
so the NYT was not guilty of libel with Ms. Palin but Fox is for this? Come on..I wonder if these judges have a bias against conservatives. I would demand a new judge who is representative of the defendants. Ms. Bartilmo is an Italian American and there is historical bias with certain groups against Italians. Only an Italian American judge should make this decision not a Jewish one.
I’m sure the plaintiffs went forum shopping. That’s how a lot of those bullshit election law decisions were made in 2020.
Sullum, who has a terminal case of Trump Derangement Syndrome, conveniently failed to acknowledge that New York County Supreme Court Judge David B. Cohen is a Democrat.
Or that the chances of any kind of fair ruling, in a suit involving Trump, in New York, hovers between slim, and none.
Oh no's, a Democrat preciding over a Republican. So everything now is an us vs. them? Get a grip.
Fuck off, fitty cent.
He's not even that good at it.....Maybe..... 25cent?
Basically. PA Supreme Court ignored mail in voting violating their state constitution because Trump "lost" and Republicans brought the suit.
damikesc, the mail in voting changes were passed by the GOP controlled state legislature in 2019.
...did they pass a Constitutional Amendment?
No?
Then it was still in violation of the Constitution.
damikesc, the mail in voting changes were passed by the GOP controlled state legislature in 2019.
The republicans signed off on this as part of a deal, knowing full well that what they were signing off on required a constitutional amendment in PA.
In short, they thought they were screwing over the dems.
They did not take the dems perfidy into account, however. The dems simply implemented the unconstitutional part and used the vote as a way to say that the republicans were okay with it.
That's right. Every judgment rendered by a Democrat Judge is suspect.
However, every judgment rendered by a Republican Judge is the Inerrant Word of the Founding Fathers and should be treated as Constitutional Gospel.
Democrats tend to be, of low character, activists when on the bench, and believe on some pretty horrible things. Although there are exceptions.
hey! leave sotomayor, kagan, ginsburg et al out of this!
That's the spirit!
Dems: nanny nanny boo boo!
Gee-Oh-Peepee: I'm rubber, you're glue...
You’re such an imbecilic senile clown.
All defamation suits are based upon the false principle that people own their reputation and can sue for damages to it - similar to other property damage suits.
All such laws should be repealed as a violation of freedom of communication (speech / press)
Suing people for intentionally defaming you seems like a reasonable exercise of freedom. Provided the burden of proof is on the one bringing suit.
It's that or bring back dueling.
A society where people can run around saying anything they want about someone else with no consequences is not functional
I'd prefer dueling.
I wouldn’t mind being free to walk up and just break their necks. If that were legal, Adam Schiff would run screaming for his panic room.
Are you still into fucking goats?
No offense. No reasonable person would believe you are, right?
We don’t want to hear about your kinks.
now just leak that to a friendly journalist at WaPo or NYT and have it picked up by cnn, msnbc... abc, cbs, nbc, pbs... have them refernce 'sources in the know' and have it then amplified by the incestuous twitter/journalist connection/mode of reporting.
There is actually a high bar for such cases. Unlike, say, England where you can proceed with a defamation suit even when the "mean" claim was true. So you get cases by medical quacks suing doctors who say that there quackery is quackery.
In the US however you have to prove it's wrong and that there was malice.
Freedom of speech still exists, just like the freedom to bear arms. The latter doesn't let you shoot people and the former doesn't let you tell lies maliciously to harm someone. (Also doesn't let you commit slander or libel).
So not reckless disregard when you and the rest of our marxist media shit out their baseless conspiracy theories, but unconstitutional changes to voting requirements and truckloads of ballots showing up in the middle of the night with no chain of custody is still A OK.
Ah, you hit the nail on the head. "baseless"
The low intelligence exhibited by the average Trumplican doesn't give them a pass on needed some basis for their little theories.
Here's one for your little critical thinking mind. If the hand count matches the machine count... the machines are accurate and count just fine - which in turn discounts all the theories about Chinese, French, Russian hackers etc. etc.
However, because of irresponsible reporting (lacking that old critical thinking part), these companies have lost millions in business - so states (red ones) refusing to even consider the machines anymore.
So yeah, they lied about the companies. That lie in part cost the companies millions (maybe billions?) in business and the company wants to recoup. T.S.
“The low intelligence exhibited by the average Trumplican doesn't give them a pass on needed some basis for their little theories.”
What now about average intelligence?
I think something hit you on your head. He's referring to all the lies about Russia and trump as well as the four years of mouth shitting that came from the democrat shills in the media. The judge is clearly biased in this case. You need to work on your reading comprehension, then you can sit at the adult table.
Never stop believing in the Trump dream!
Never stop being a leftist stooge!
Don’t worry, she won’t.
When someone finally cuts its throat it will
Even you should be able to admit that this ruling is idiotic in light of the media coverage and pushing of the Russia Collusion! story.
Never stop believing in the Trump dream!
Dream?
We watched it happen. On live TV. We watched them shut down ballot counting sites, send all the workers and observers hom and bring in ballots when no one was there to verify anything.
We read the gloating article about how they'd
stolenfortified the election.This all happened in plain sight.
So exposing the progressive lefts lies makes me a avid trump supporter? I think it is you that keeps dreaming of Trump. By the way I didn't mind his policies, but personally I think he's a jackass. You are supposed to be voting for what is best for the country, it is not a popularity contest. It will be people like you who can not detach themselves from your emotional cocoon that will destroy this country. Most of us have grown up already.
You appear to be quite proud of your dithering faggotry.
No widespread corruption.
Wisconsin specifically used the dreaded W-word.
I don't expect this will apply to Hillary and her enablers. Or the Cuomo Bros and CNN. But it would be nice.
Actually, it would be better to not apply to anyone. But having applied it here, it would be gratifying to apply it to those who applied it here.
And Jacob Sollum: you really need to get over your TDS.
So lawsuits can proceed against all the people who lied about Russia's involvement in the 2016 election, right guys?
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
"The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hack-andleak campaign targeting the DNC, DCCC, and the Clinton Campaign. Moscow's intent was to damage the Clinton Campaign and tarnish what it expected might be a Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and generally undermine the U.S. democratic process. The Committee's findings are based on a variety of information, including raw intelligence reporting.
The hack-and-leak campaign was conducted by the GRU through specialized cyber units, executed using established GRU infrastructure, and planned and coordinated by GRU headquarters elements. Starting in March 2016, the GRU used spearphishing techriiques to gain unauthorized access to the email accounts of individuals associated with the Clinton Campaign, including Campaign Manager John Podesta, and stole thousands of emails. In April 2016, the GRU leveraged stolen credentials ofJsome of these individuals to obtain further unauthorized access to the networks of the DNC and DCCC, where it identified and carefully exfiltrated tens of thousands of politically sensitive documents from April through June 2016.1112 The GRU . continued to conduct hacking operations to obtain additional material from accounts associated with the Clinton Campaign until at least September 2016.
The GRU quickly integrated the materials it stole during its hacking operation into an influence operation that relied on two primary fake personas-Guccifer 2.0 and DCLeaks-to promote and disseminate the hacked documents. The influence activities using these personas spanned June 2016 through the election, and included attempts to obscure Russia's responsibility for the hacking operation.1113 In addition to publishing the stolen documents, the Russian personas used social engineering to seed information with specific individuals associated with the Trump Campaign. The GRU also relied on U.S. social media platforms and media attention for its influence operations.
Wiki-leaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian campai~knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort. The Committee found significant indications that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks have benefited from Russian government support.
After receiving the GRU' s materials, WikiLeaks timed its document releases for maximum political impact.. WikiLeaks released the GRU-hacked materials obtained from the DNC on the eve of the Democratic National Convention. It released materials stolen from Podesta's email account starting on October 7, 2016, and continued to release Podesta's emails up until the election. ' (U) While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those materials to aid Trump's electoral prospects. To do so, the Trump Campaign took actions to obtain advance notice about WikiLeaks releases of Clinton emails; took steps to obtain inside information about the content of releases once WikiLeaks began to publish stolen information; created messaging strategies to promote and share the materials in anticipation of and following their release; and encouraged further theft of information and continued leaks. (U) Trump and senior Campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about WikiLeaks through Roger Stone. In spring 2016, prior to Assange's public announcements, Stone advised the Campaign that WikiLeaks would be releasing materials harmful to Clinton. Following the July 22 DNC release, Trump and the Campaign believed that Roger Stone had known of the release and had inside access to WikiLeaks, and repeatedly communicated with Stone about WikiLeaks throughout the summer and fall of 2016. .."
And so on.
Oh no… tarnish the good name of the Clintons? How horrible!
Advanced factual information. Oh my!
Is that the same DNC hack now under investigation by Durham as they were the same analysts who claimed the alfa bank pings?
Oh it is.
Don't forget the unicorns and magic treasure trolls.
Hahahahahahaha, good one Brandon.
Wait, are you saying that Russia didn't try to influence the 2016 election at all? I don't recall anyone saying that.
Which lie and who was hurt?
“Russia didn't try to influence the 2016 election”
Yep, that was it. That’s all that was claimed.
On the right, they've gone from:
"Russia tried to influence the 2016 election, but it was laughable and ineffective"
all the way to
"Russia NEVER tried to influence the 2016 election, it was all a HOAX perpetrated by Democrats, and even THINKING that Russia had anything to do with it makes you complicit in the Democrats' fraud!"
“Russia NEVER tried to influence the 2016 election”
Who said this?
No one in this thread at least. But Jeff is privy to all the thoughts and feelings of anyone to the right of Stalin, so someone somewhere may have.
"On the right, they've gone from:
"Russia tried to influence the 2016 election, but it was laughable and ineffective""
...so Russia DIDN'T just plant "their boy" in the White House?
That claim has certainly morphed.
The facts, which the GOP led Senate Intel Comm report linked above confirmed - and there is more than what I posted, including the Trump Tower meeting, Manafort, attempts to start a Trump Tower in Moscow which persisted into the campaign (Trump denied that fact) - Trump and Russia colluded to help Trump win the election. It is not a hoax and demonstrates the low character of the candidate, his family, and team members, bordering on treason. Recall that someone mailed Gore the Bush debate prep notes in 2000 and his campaign notified the FBI and gave them to them unopened.
You are aware that every single claim you're making has been proven false, right?
"Oh, a Senate Committee made claims" ... because committees have never made utterly false claims before.
But, yes, odd voting rules changes and really odd voting counts is nothing suspicious. BUT some really unproven claims about what Trump REALLY wanted to do is totes logical.
...and commenting on how honorable Gore was is kinda funny given that Trump's opponent spied on him and used her friends in the FBI to harass him for most of his Presidency.
He's not even self-aware.
Funny how you prog faggots think that foreigners never tried to influence our elections before and since 2016. Does it ever bother you that you’re so fat, weak and worthless that you are shunned by everyone and an object of derision here?
Feel free to go back to sobbing while you eat your way through that case of raw cookie dough you bought, in place of ever receiving love and respect.
>>But this week, a New York judge ruled that Smartmatic can proceed
ruled [incorrectly] ...
Nope, he nailed. You lie about a company and cost that company millions of dollars, your gonna have to pay.
So the suit against the NYT was thrown out for not even considering that the Times behaved with reckless disregard for the truth when its editorial accused Sarah Palin of being responsible for the Gabby Giffords shooting. However, a suit against Fox can go forward for accurately reporting on Trump's representatives theory on why the 2020 election was fraudulent.
This makes sense.
Totalitarian societies run on hypocrisy.
Palin got her day in court and lost by jury. Time published a 'correction' (no doubt on some back page). Judge additionally claimed that Palin's lawyers failed to prove that she was defamed.
Powell, Guiliani, OANN, FOX etc. all, claimed not only without proof, but counter to all available evidence, that the companies behind the voting machines and software were deliberately corrupt. Here's the thing, not a single shred of evidence supported their position. Nothing, NADA. But even as it became clear they kept the narrative going. So they probably won't win because of the first time they said it. But at some point their narrative didn't match up with the facts.
Eat shit, fascist cum dumpster.
"Let's make a vague and spurious comparison"
Hey, I can play this game too.
"Some rando leftwinger on Twitter gets away with saying mean things about Republicans, and that ought to be intolerable slander justifying repealing Section 230. However, some judge lets a defamation lawsuit proceed against Fox News, and that is an outrageous assault on liberty. Makes sense."
Here’s another game you can play Jeffy. Have Tony come over and show you an additional use for those cookie dough tunes before you open them. Then you get a bonus, as all of them will have a new fudge coating.
Don’t tell your pal SQRLSY, or he will want to lick them all clean.
"When CNN accurately reports shameful things that Trump did, it's intolerable fake news. But when Fox News reports *and cheerleads* for shameful things that Trump did, then it's totally justifiable reporting that no one should get upset about lest one has a terminal case of TDS. Makes sense."
"CNN lied once, therefore all lies by Fox News are justified. Makes sense."
If only they lied once.
But we get you have some odd sexual fetish involving FNC.
But he’s totally not a democrat!
My favorite:
"I refuse to refer to trans people by the 'wrong' pronoun, because I will not be complicit in their lies. Also, Trump was totally a libertarian president."
Poor Jeffy hasn’t been here in awhile and feels like talking to himself.
Jeff is off his meds.
Go back to your feed bucket you fat fuck.
That’s your entire brand.
That’s for Jeff
How is that vague and spurious? Did you hit your head while you were gone?
A company, that had "a single contract with Los Angeles County", claiming damages of $2.7 billion should have been laughed out of court, instead of anyone paying attention to what they said.
Bit TDS is a debilitating affliction.
The real big lie is that the 2020 election was free and fair.
From the numerous illegal changes to election regulations, to the censorship and lies about the Hunter Biden laptop, to the miraculous reversal of fortune, from Trump being ahead on election night - when elections are normally called - to "late arriving" Bai-dung ballots turning up in the days that followed.
For anyone to believe it was fair, they must also believe that basement-campaigning Zhou Bai-dung was more popular than Barack 0blama ever was.
Whose got TDS. An article about voting machines and lawsuit and your talking about Hunter's laptop. Focus.
As for your fair election - there hasn't been a shred of evidence (unless you talk about easily dismissed brain dead theories) that it wasn't fair.
Read the affidavits. "I saw poll workers roll their eyes whenever they saw a Trump ballot. I'm sure they didn't count all of them" That affidavit is evidence of what?
It really doesn't matter anymore, you faggots called for an end to the rule of law.
Buckle up.
Why are we allowing them to live if the rule of law is over?
Nice MAGA forum here. I didn't know libertarians and MAGA was the same thing.
Trump was the most libertarian president in decades, so yeah.
Trump is and was the biggest liar ever to hold office. I considered real libertarians to be thinkers.
"I feel climate change is not real"
Don't care about your feelings.
Fuck off.
Real libertarians are thinkers. They think deeply and carefully about the proper role of the state and the consequences of the state exercising power.
But that's not what we have around here. Around here, we have knee-jerk toddlers with oppositional defiant disorder.
You just defined yourself as a non thinker.
Oh no. A troll insulted me. Whatever will I do.
You could do the decent thing and kill yourself.
Sorry, but Nardz does the whole murder/suicide schtick much more believably than you.
Tell us where you live.
He won’t. He’s a lying coward, so he never reveals any personal information. Plus 8m sure he lives in constant fear of real men, being such a spineless beta male.
"Oh no. A troll insulted me. Whatever will I do."
I'd have guessed "make a whiny, passive-aggressive, cunty response".
And I was right.
I think you just exposed the biggest hole in modern libertarian politics: They're obsessed with purity of thought. It doesn't matter that Trump's actions were more in line with libertarianism. He had wrong thought and therefore must be pulled down and beaten to expose his heresy. You can't build a society on thinkers, you can only set a framework. It used to be the argument that libertarianism worked because it used people's base nature to promote itself. You look for your own interests and I look for mine and as long as we don't take from one another, we can live as we please. It's a fun way to argue that it requires correct thought since it is allegedly based on the NAP and the NAP is about actions.
TLDR: You're wrong and arrogantly stupid.
All that libertarians need to force looters to repeal bad laws is 3% of the vote. The repeals roll in faster the more votes we get, provided only that we are not infiltrated by mystical nazis or whack-job communo-anarchists. It's a kind of integrity Laffer curve for law-changing spoiler vote clout. Ink-squirt here is a textbook example of the looter mentality completely baffled as to why people prefer freedom to life-threatening coercion.
You’re not a libertarian, nor are you a thinker.
Who the fuck are you quoting? The voices in your empty head?
By the definition of "libertarian" around here, sure! Because the Reason Commenter definition of "libertarian" is:
- pwning the libs
- giving a pass to Team Red while showing no mercy to Team Blue
- paranoid conspiratorial thinking to the point of absurdity
I mean, it's not principled or rigorous, but it sure does feel good, doesn't it?
Do they pay you by the word?
Do they pay you by the shitpost?
Are you offering him the services of your agent to get the deal you have?
Do they even bother to pay you?
They do, in tubes of cookie dough.
That's the fifth-column looter infiltrator definition. These unemployable slugs could be out there clamoring the virtues and panhandling donations for the slimy Kleptocracy they prefer. But irritating libertarians is more fun than showering off rotten eggs and stitching up cuts. Thank Reason we can blot out their blather.
You don’t know anything.
I hate when they change put .50 centers but keep the same user name.
Welcome to last-ditch Republican desperation. Trump lost in the 2016 popular vote for the same reason Bill's old lady lost in the electoral college: 4 million libertarian votes earned by a reasonably good platform and pro-choice candidates. Trumpanzees lost the 2020 election thanks to the party reverting back to girl-bullying Ku-Klux prohibitionism and putting the Lebensborn madchen on the Court--that AND libertarian spoiler votes. Every unemployable mystical bigot is now assigned to harrying Reason readers.
Haven't read the comments yet, but let me guess the general tenor thus far:
- Sullum has TDS, why can't he just shut up about Trump?
- Dobbs lies, CNN lies, NYT lies, they all lie, so they are all morally equivalent, amirite? Who cares?
- Dobbs and co. had good intentions, who cares if they technically lied? The important goal here is to stop Democrats from cheating
- Smartmatic is part of the global conspiracy to destroy America so fuck them
- Hey, did I mention that some crazy leftwinger somewhere is doing something bad? Let's ignore this article and focus on that instead
“Haven't read the comments yet”
Yet here you are talking about commentators. If sarc wasn’t such a hypocrite he’d call you out for such behavior.
In fairness sarc is probably suffering from liver failure.
Are you TRYING to cheer everyone up?
Judge rules against (libelous/infuriating/seditious) speech.
Just another advancement in our new fortified public arena.
Isn’t it great that wrongthink is illegal.
I know, right?
Holding left-wingers accountable for libel is called "justice".
Holding right-wingers accountable for libel is called "making wrongthink illegal".
Because the “right” is totally in charge of social media.
Kill yourself.
Yes yes we know. When Sandmann settled his libel suit against CNN, it was a horrible injustice where wrongthink was criminalized due to pressure from the courts. Poor poor CNN the victim.
Oh, here's another one:
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/dershowitz-defamation-suit-against-cnn-allowed-to-proceed
Just look at that bully Dershowitz, trying to "criminalize wrongthink" against poor victimized CNN (again!). Right? Right?
Here's another one:
https://www.thewrap.com/right-wing-oan-network-files-10-million-defamation-suit-against-rachel-maddow-msnbc/
OANN files defamation lawsuit against MSNBC and Rachel Maddow. Look at those anti-American traitors, trying to "criminalize wrongthink"!
Maybe, you are a troll and a hack and a shill for Team Red who doesn't have a principled bone in his body. Could it be?
Apologize. You have zero business calling anyone out after the bulllshit you’ve pulled here for years. Certainly if you ever dared speak in such a manner to an actual man, you would like be beaten to death on the spot. As it should are certainly not a real man. Just a tub of goo with blood type cookie dough. I’m sure your family will be ecstatic when you finally die.
Now take your shambling sobbing mound of mobile excrement back to your cookie dough bucket and fuck off.
Still waiting for a response fatboy.
It would be slander, if you’re an anti-1st amendment/anti-free speech douche canoe that thinks news commentators should be held liable for the content of their guests speech.
This should have been laughed out of court, just like the Palin libel suit should have been laughed out of court.
since he has repeatedly declared that the scheme he described was "easily provable" and that he had "conclusive proof" of "machines that are crooked" and "ballots that are fraudulent."
This sounds quite similar to Adam Schiff claiming he had seen proof of Trump colluding with Russia. Does anyone believe the standard developed in this case will be applied to a Democrat or other leftist?
I know, right?
Every right-thinking person knows that a politician spouting baseless lies should be prosecuted for libel.
Except Trump, where if he were held to that standard, it would be called "criminalizing wrongthink".
It's funny the leftists pretend to oppose double standards even as they try to enforce them. Even as Trump is getting his just due they cannot apply that standard to a Dem. Instead they distract attention back to Trump to protect the Dems.
I know, right? Pointing out that you are a hypocritical asshole is exactly the same as "protecting the dems".
You want Adam Schiff prosecuted for telling lies? Fine. I'll believe it the moment you advocate for Trump being prosecuted for telling 1,000x as many lies.
Of course Marshal said nothing on whether he thought that SHOULD be the outcome, just that this amazing new standard WOULDN’T be applied to the Democrats.
Pointing out that you are a hypocritical asshole is exactly the same as "protecting the dems".
This is revealing. You nonsensically pretend people are hypocrites for arguing standards should be applied to everyone. But even if we ignore this arguendo and pretend they actually do support applying standards only to the opposing team that would make them no different than you.
The self-righteousness of left wingers leaves them unable to think clearly.
Er... unlike what other looter wangers?
Let me guess: Sullum thought Palin's libel lawsuit was an affront against liberty.
Hey, remember when CNN settled with Sandmann in his libel suit against them? Remember when libel was a real thing and actionable in court when it was a poor kid victimized by the big bad liberal bully CNN?
The difference of course being that they verifiably and knowingly slandered Sandmann.
He seems to not know that there was readily available video evidence that their entire claim was false THE DAY THEY MADE IT.
lol and that's just what we know about
Zucker still has ten million dollars worth of secret dirt
Designate, the WaPo covered the story on the 1st day by interviewing witnesses and participants which included that lying jerk off "Indian". On the next day they had discovered the woman who shot the video from the side which clarified a lot about what happened. They published both accounts as news, and they were news. One day was dominated by an accusation against Sandman by a 1st person witness participant while the 2nd day was dominated by exculpable information on Sandman by a 1st person witness that also called into question the "Indian's" story. That's what newspapers do. Did some columnists run with the 1st day reporting? Yes, and some apologized but some didn't - a pox on them. The WaPo did it's job - covering events in DC.
Non public figures, which Sandmann undoubtedly was, have a much lower standard to meet in slander/libel cases.
The entire video was available that same day you lying sack of shit.
Fuck off, Brandon.
He's just the beast under your bed.
In your closet.
In your head.
Exit common sense.
The correct collocation is "an affront to..." whatever value is being affronted. Example: Carlos Incontinence's syntax is an affront to English grammar.
They really unleashed the bots on this one.
The rule of law is dead.
Do as thou must.
I sometimes wonder if Jeffy is really Brian Stelter. They’re both fat and worthless. Both are conniving liars. I’m sure both would be equally enjoyable to savagely beat.
I'm looking forward to half of Congress and large parts of the corporate media being thrown in jail over their ludicrous statements about the Steele dossier, Trump-Russia ties, and assorted other b.s.
As for these two voting system companies, let's see where discovery goes...
Congress isprotected by the Speech and Devate clause for what they said on the Floor.
Yes, but not by what they say off the floor.
NOYB, the "corporate media" - in this case, the NYTs, New Yorker, etc - were invited in Sept 2016 to view the Steele Dossier at a site in NYC by Fusion GPS. Guess what? None of them printed the story before the election out of journalistic responsibility to not help a political campaign's October surprise - same as they did with the Hunter Biden story in 2020 - nor did they until Buzz Feed published it in January 2017. So, besides for thanking Comey, who reported Hillary was under FBI investigation 2 weeks before the vote, while not also stating that by-the-way, so was Trump, MAGA should be thanking corporate media for keeping the Steele Dossier undercover before the election. Those are your 2 big supposed enemies.
"The founders of Fusion GPS have described how they did not hide the fact that they were researching Trump and Russia: "Fusion and Steele tried to alert U.S. law enforcement and the news media to the material they'd uncovered ..." and their office became "something of a public reading room" for journalists seeking information. In September they arranged a private meeting between Steele and reporters from The Washington Post, The New York Times, The New Yorker, ABC News, and other outlets. The results were disappointing, as none published any stories before the election.[56]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier#Hints_of_existence
You are funny. Really funny.
I didn't vote for Trump. In fact, I was a Democrat and progressive most of my life, until I realized how utterly despicable and destructive Democrats and progressives are.
lol no these laws only apply to Republicans
If you don't look for evidence you're bound to not find any.
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"But this week, a New York judge ruled..."
Always nice that the DNC can rely on their tame judges in New York, California, and D.C.
On the plus side, it provides cover for Reason to pontificate on Trump.
It's good to see as we are on the verge of world war and Biden is deliberately crushing an already week economy that Reason keeps its eye on what really matters: Trump Derangement Syndrome. Good job, guys. Mighty libertarian of you.
Pick up on the really "week" Trumpanzee bullshit!
irrespective of the suit's merits Smartmatic should not be involved in elections, nor should any other electronic voting machine company
been coding nearly 40 years
electronic voting machines have always been a very bad idea for a very simple reason: voting is not an activity in which fast counts are in any way more important than secure counts
what are they saving? a few hours manual labor?
no electronic voting system is ever secure, there's always a possibility someone can slip in a few lines of code to change the results, this happens merely by accident fairly often as has been reported in the news
voting machines today run millions of lines of code in stacked libraries... every line is a vulnerability
no reason the old pull-lever machines cannot still be used, and so many reasons they should be
Bush Jr’s faith-based asset-forfeiture wrecked the economy in 2008, when 33% of pollees were God’s Own Prohibitionists and 34% commie Dems. Mystical fascists today barely muster 26% and looter Dems 29%. Libertarians plus sweepings have since 2008 increased from 32% to 42%. SPOILER ALERT: as Kleptocracy policies drove voters to libertarian candidates, parasite gangs clearly became desperate, violent and irrational. Republican coercion causes financial crashes, and Dem complicity plus redistributive looting brings the slower rotting of the economy we observe in Europe and Southern-hemisphere caudillo states. Libertarian spoiler votes are the only thing working to free production and trade from those vampires.
You say pretty much the same thing in most of your posts. Have you ever thought of committing suicide instead of posting here? Asking for a friend.
Well, they could actually do something like that if they were professional developers, but I'm not sure if it's possible to check right now. There are not so many reliable specialists in this sphere, and even when I was looking for a decent magento online store, I managed to find only amasty. And I have no idea why the web and software development market is so diverse.
Well, they could actually do something like that if they were professional developers, but I'm not sure if it's possible to check right now. There are not so many reliable specialists in this sphere, and even when I was looking for a decent magento online store, I managed to find only amasty. And I have no idea why the web and software development market is so diverse.
Facebook just temporarily alllowed
Posts calling for the death of Russians though.
Reason seems much less in "ATTACK ON THE PRESS" mode than they are with most media lawsuits.