The Fake-Meat Revolution Has Stalled
Consumer trends suggest a meatless near future is increasingly unlikely.

Recent reports suggest there's a growing realization among consumers, industry, investors, and others that overheated predictions of a meatless future—one in which steaks, bacon, chicken nuggets, and other foods made from dead animals will be supplanted by plant-based imitations of meat dishes and lab-grown meats made from animal cells (the latter of which is still exceedingly rare)—may have been based on wishful thinking.
As Food Dive reported this week, sales of imitation meat products are faltering. The website cites remarks and earning reports from Beyond Meat—a leader in the plant-based sector that counts among its fans none other than me—that combine a bleak present reality of "negative growth and high net losses" with fears over whether this market downturn could be permanent.
Currently trading at around $46 per share, Beyond Meat's stock price is a heck of a lot closer to its 52-week low (around $41) than it is to its peak during the same period (more than $160).
The Food Dive report also notes that other makers of fake meat, including Maple Leaf Foods, admit the sector's growth has "stalled."
"Refrigerated plant-based meat grew 59% in 2019 and 75% in 2020," a senior Maple Leaf official said, "but in 2021 it only grew 1%."
In addition to floundering sales, other data points include, for example, that Dunkin' halted sales of the Beyond Sausage vegetarian breakfast sandwich at most locations after sales didn't meet expectations.
These data suggest not as many people are as interested in meatless foods as supporters of plant-based and cell-grown meats have predicted. But hype about the looming dominance of meat alternatives has always exceeded reality.
"Going forward, the meat value chain could be simplified dramatically, as 'clean meat' labs could take the place of farms, feedlots, and slaughterhouses," the market-research group CB Insights reported in an August research brief, part of a look at what the group called suggested could be a "meatless future" in this country.
Maybe so. But in 2019, for example, The New York Times reported that plant-based meats make up only around 1 percent of the overall meat market. And, "almost a decade after the first cell-grown hamburger was introduced at a packed media event, the notion of buying an engineered steak at the grocery store remains an expensive theory," the Irish Times reported this week.
At a time of record-high meat prices, one would expect meat alternatives to be growing in popularity. But sales of meat made from formerly living animals are strong. "Total 2021 meat sales were virtually flat compared to the record 2020 sales, but compared to the pre-pandemic normal of 2019, sales averaged between 17% and 20% above typical levels," Drovers reported in January.
The policy implications of what appears to be declining consumer interest in meat alternatives could be legion. For example, last year Meatless Mondays, a vegetarian-inspired campaign to get cities, foodservice providers, and others to serve vegetarian dishes instead of meat dishes on Mondays throughout the year, extolled New York City's "commitment to meat reduction" as part of the city's absurd 10-Year Food Policy Plan.
"After a successful Meatless Monday pilot initiative launched in 2018, all 1800 of the New York City's public schools now serve vegetarian meals on Mondays," the group noted. "Several other city agencies have adopted Meatless Monday, including NYC Health + Hospitals, the largest public healthcare system in the country, as well as the Department of Homeless Services and the Department of Correction."
Meanwhile, the USDA and FDA are jointly trying to figure out how to regulate cell-based meats. Given America's love of meat and the sway of America's meat industry over regulators and regulations, I'm not confident any final rules will do anything to bolster sales.
In truth, though, promoting either meat or its alternatives should never be a policy goal.
Many plant-based food producers rightly chafe at federal policies that promote eating meat. "Vegan food companies are fed up with an onslaught of pro-meat, pro-dairy laws," The New York Times reported in 2019.
I join them in their consternation. But many supporters of meat alternatives appear merely to want the government to stop promoting a dietary agenda they abhor in favor of one they prefer. Some anti-meat groups, for example, are trying to strengthen sales of meat alternatives by proposing sweeping and costly policy changes. The U.K.-based Vegan Society, which opposes eating meat, has laid out a set of six policy approaches it says will help shift consumers away from meat and towards plant-based foods. The policies include government subsidies; promoting the growing of plants among new farmers; more research funding; taxing farm animals; and buying more vegetables to be served in public dining facilities.
I don't have a rooting interest here. As I've written time and again, I don't care at all whether people eat meat, plants, or some combination of these foods. To each their own. But when businesses and activists attempt to push government policies that would restrict or promote certain food choices—whether that's more or less meat, meat alternatives, vegetables, or other foods—then those policies are wrongheaded and must be challenged.
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Back in my restaurant days we called those things dirt-burgers.
Recently fired?
I'd ask if you if you still beat your wife, but with your level of maturity I doubt any woman could stand your company.
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Must have been a messy breakup. Never heard if your kids call or not?
Unemployed drunk.
He got fired after they discovered he wasn’t really cleaning the toilets as instructed. Instead he was sneaking SQRLSY in after closing and letting him lick the toilets clean.
Nah, they discovered the glory hole
he made.
Is there a special name for Cuban sandwiches with fake meat?
https://www.jimmyjohns.com/menu/originals/vegetarian
Actually higher in calories *and* saturated fat than their sandwiches that feature real meat - including bacon.
Kinda like the fake meat they keep putting in my local grocery store's meat department, which has taken the shelf space previously dedicated to more specialty cuts and other thinks I actually enjoyed, like skirt steak, hangar, and grass-fed ground beef.
Fat, sugar and salt are what makes things taste good. So it doesn't surprise me that a bunch of that stuff is added to dirt-burgers. Or they'd taste like dirt.
It's definitely not about healthy eating or nutrition.
Reminds me of what hard ciders and seltzers did to the craft beer selection at my grocery store.
Ugh, yes. And I even actually kinda *like* those seltzers, mostly because they're basically just an alcoholic version of the soda water I drink regularly anyway as a means of avoiding consuming so many soft drinks. But when I go to the beer section I'm there because I want fucking beer, not alcoholic water.
A Mariel Boatlift?
Interesting the dichotomy in people who want natural, unprocessed foods, who nevertheless want highly processed fake meat.
As the saying goes, it's not impressive to make plants taste like meat. Cows have done it for a long, long time.
Many of these people also want cars powered by toxic batteries, electricity from bird-killing windmills, and oppose GMO plants that reduce the use of chemical pesticides.
I think it's less of a dichotomy, and more a matter of being so blinded by intentions that they can't see the actual results.
Have a friend who recently retired from the mining industry. There is a reason “tailpipe emissions” is the measurement used. He advised if anyone took an objective look at electric vehicles from materials acquisition to disposal, it would be a significant environmental negative.
People think buying a brand new Prius or Tesla is saving the planet. What would actually save the planet is fixing up your old beater so it doesn't spew as much exhaust, and driving it less.
What would actually help the planet would be to remove the catalytic converters from cars. With the improvement in refining processes they are no longer needed. The problem is that they are established and have a solid lobby group. The mining and processing of the Platinum for them does more environmental damage than they prevent. That includes recycling the Platinum from old converters.
The catalytic converter isn't for anything a refinery can remove. The two things that are removed are Carbon Monoxide and Nitrogen Oxides. These are combustion byproducts due to incomplete combustion and random Nitrogen-Oxygen reactions in the cylinders.
Increased oxygen does reduce the carbon monoxide, but that has a side-effect of increasing NOx (since there is more oxygen and nitrogen in the cylinder). Due to the tradeoff, tuning the air can only do so much, so a catalytic reaction after the combustion is the only real way to get both pollutants down as far we want.
Hell, even that's not necessary. My driving a car from 1970 that's even just in reasonable shape is a lot less polluting than building a whole new lithium ion powered car from scratch.
That's starting to sound like hate speech.
So he don't want no banana up the tailpipe? 😉
"Many of these people also want cars"
A vegan future is not internal combustion cars but electric buses and trains, a much more efficient and energy wise mode of transportation.
Hydrogen powered cars are the future.
Cars spend something like 90% of the time stationary. That's one of the reasons they are so inefficient. That's true whether they are hydrogen powered, electric or internal combustion.
Um, most of the time when my car is stationary, it is turned off with nobody in it.
You car owning skills are admirable.
Unlike you, he knows how they work.
His knowledge is admirable.
Your ignorance isn’t.
And cars are only a fragment of the carbon emissions everyone raves about but the focus of the Climate Change folks. That, and meat.
Maybe they just want everyone to be as miserable as they are.
Yes.
Chinese hoax + sun spots = misery.
Are any of your comments relevant at all?
Only ones you respond to. You can ignore the others.
How do you figure that? Production of Hydrogen consumes more energy than it produces. Storage is difficult. Hydrogen doesn't have the energy per volume that gasoline has. I'm not even going to mention the dangers from explosion, rupture of the pressure vessel in an accident, or the dangers associated with cryogenic storage if pressure vessels are not used. Then there's the whole infrastructure bit associated with refueling.
Hydrogen isn’t a fuel, it’s a storage medium.
Like the Hydrogen powered Pinto. Where do we sign up?
...assuming our already very old electric grid can handle the massive increase in demand with no additional reliable means of generating it since wind and solar are notoriously unreliable. Note: California has brown and blackouts now. Add in a massive increase in electric cars and things...well, they are unlikely to improve.
...and also assuming that you do not need to take a trip of any length. Because radius is still an issue and recharging stations are not super common and will likely have significant delays in refueling waiting for others to do the same.
...and this is before we get into the much higher upkeep costs (those batteries? Kinda costly) for those cars.
" solar are notoriously unreliable"
The sun is not unreliable. It has risen and set reliably every day since I can remember. We'll have to spend a lot of money on HVDC transmission so we can avail ourselves of the sun light falling on the opposite side of the globe and vice versa. It requires a lot of money and international co-operation but technically feasible.
Clouds do exist and do hamper the efficacy. Night is also a thing which also severely hampers efficacy. It is not a reliable, on-demand source of energy.
Luckily the earth rotates.
So you have a power source that only works half the time at best.
Remember who you’re talking to. This stuff is a religion to him. Solar and wind are sacraments in that religion.
Its not science, its Science!, aka magic. Like leftist economics.
Jesus wept.
To mtruman,
Jesus does not exist and never existed, M'Lady!
*Tips rice paddy hat.*
Fuck off, Watermelon!
Luckily the earth rotates.
Have you studied how that rotation affects sun, daylight and temperature? There is a reason the Northeast, Midwest and Canada get snow in the winter.
"Have you studied how that rotation affects sun, daylight and temperature?"
Not recently. Any new developments?
You actually revel in your ignorance.
Any new developments?
Yes. California struggles to generate enough power with its solar enhanced structure during peak hours. How do you think a NYC solar power grid will do?
Sometimes people need to generate power even when it's night-time.
He wants to reduce the population to serfdom.
Not a deep thinker are you?
How's that international cooperation thing working out at the moment?
Same as it ever was.
There is water under the ocean!
You may find yourself living in ashotgun shack!
My god, what have I done!
And you may ask yourself , “How do I work this?”
DAMMIT!
This is NOT my beautiful wife!
And what makes you think that nations on the other side of Earth will cooperate with the others to produce continuous solar PV power? And what prevents tropicsl storms from tearing up panels and disrupting the flow of power?
"And what makes you think that nations on the other side of Earth will cooperate with the others "
These other side of the earth places also get dark at night.
"And what prevents tropicsl storms from tearing up panels and disrupting the flow of power?"
Heavier panels and less severe storms.
So are we supposed to get their electricity while they are in sunlight?
Are you retarded?
"So are we supposed to get their electricity while they are in sunlight?"
That would be my guess.
Explain how that works.
So you agree that you are retarded?
Where I live, and how I make a living, means electric will never be feasible. And public transportation even less so.
If you want to freeze in the dark the choice is yours.
Kill yourself you commie freak.
I choose not to freeze in the dark. Wtf kinda stupid comment was that anyway?
"I choose not to freeze in the dark."
Then you'll simply have to adapt to changing circumstances. Had your ancestors clung to their whale oil burning ways and resisted change at all cost, they too would have froze in the dark.
"If you want to freeze in the dark the choice is yours." Apparently m(not)trueman is addressing someone who lives out in the country, so the response is "Starve in your brightly lit city." (Except the men running the power plants will probably quit long before you're dead.)
Country folk can survive without the cities, with some difficulty adjusting to fossil fuel deliveries stopping. The other way around is not true - the grocery stores will be empty 3 days after food deliveries from the country stop, and you'll starve to death after a few weeks - or die sooner in a riot or mob fight.
"Country folk can survive without the cities,"
Country folk can starve just as easily as city folk.
Are you sure?
I travel across the country once a week for social reasons.
It takes me 40 minutes to travel 35.9 miles over toll roads at my cars most economical speed.
I can take the same trip by bus, sort of; it includes walking a total of one mile with my arthritic hips and knees and ankles. It also takes three hours and eleven minutes, and requires three transfers. The web will not give total miles, but it is significantly more.
"It also takes three hours and eleven minutes, and requires three transfers. "
Two words: express bus.
Two words: eat shit
Still boring. I'm going to put you on ignore. You've nothing of interest to say, except childish insults and bluster. You're a liar and boring one at that.
You can’t answer a single question, so sad.
He can't answer with anything meaningful because it is not a well thought out logical position, it is his religion.
No facts can sway him and no logic can move him because HIS heart is pure.
We are just the Philistines that fail to adhere to the true beliefs.
"HIS heart is pure."
Hallelujah comrade!.
Express buses from everywhere to everywhere else have another name, they are called cars.
Buses are bigger than cars, holding maybe 10 times the number of passengers. They don't go everywhere. They have to stick to the roads.
But public transit is so pleasant—especially the “public” part!
"Weird Al" Yankovic--Another One Rides the Bus
https://youtu.be/tZkouut-9RQ
And that was before everyone on the bus had an iPhone but for the life of them they’ve never heard of earphones. We really need a “Don’t Let Your Phone Be The Only ‘Smart’ Thing About You” public service campaign
No, the real Vegan future is rickshaws for the elites and the common rabble staying one one spot serving the elites forever.
Adapt or die. Nobody promised you a rose garden. If you don't like it whine or pray. Mother nature, the bitch, doesn't care.
Or we could kill the assholes who are trying to destroy us.
If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha.
Under the water, carry the water.
Fuck off, Watermelon!
You too, Grapefruit!
Forget about him . He’s just a troll.
Threatening people with apocalypse for the sake of Utopian lifestyles that would mean death for 9/10th of the human species inspires more than a little buck-up in me.
mtrueman: "electric buses and trains, a much more efficient and energy wise mode of transportation"
Almost every time I've looked at a city bus going by, this 50 or 60 passenger vehicle has less than 6 riders - 10% utilization is NOT efficient. But if you can get the bus nearly full, then you have over 40 riders waiting every time 1 person gets on or off. As a result, a bus running on schedule takes 2 hours to make a trip that's a half hour by car, whether it's full or nearly empty. Then it is often several miles and another hour to walk to the actual destination. Trains are even worse.
Buses and trains may or may not be "energy efficient", but waste a much more important resource: the limited number of hours each of us has in our life. If that doesn't bother you, I expect it's either because you think you're in the elite and will be riding a limousine instead of a bus, or because you're a worthless git who can waste half the day because you don't have a job to get to.
"Buses and trains may or may not be "energy efficient","
Electric trains and buses are more energy efficient than internal combustion passenger cars because of the economy of scale. They are cleaner and quieter too. If we are serious about addressing climate change, electric mass transportation is all but certain. Same with a vegan diet.
I take your point on the value of time. But mass transit lets a passenger engage in other activities instead of concentrating on the road. Fewer passenger vehicles could mean less congested roads and smoother traffic.
They also want to shut down nuclear power plants and blow up hydroelectric dams, forcing more electricity to be generated with coal.
Generating electricity with coal won't work if the transmission lines have been toppled, something they also want to do. Toppling a transmission tower is child's play once you've blown up a dam or two.
Shooting saboteurs is easy too.
Shooting is easy, period. But mother nature, the bitch, doesn't care.
Mother Nature believes in the laws of thermodynamics.
She still doesn't care. Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH0-WXUFY2k
Your cult is dumber and more destructive than Scientology.
Blame it on the engrams.
They send less junk mail though (but man to they shit up threads like this!)
And when the levee breaks ... we just build it back again. See New Orleans.
My car runs on chemically stored sunlight energy.
Mine too!
Electric buses and trains are the vegan future. Efficient use of energy will be your watch words. It's unavoidable given the fossil fuel alternatives don't (yet?) have anywhere near the energy density.
And for the foreseeable future those things will also run on fossil fuels. Only difference is the place where they are burned.
A bus run on fossil fuels is no doubt more efficient than an electric Tesla.
Only when full, and not stopping/starting every block or two. Other than that, how was your evening, Mrs. Lincoln?
Bigger blocks, then.
Oh.. you are just a troll.
No, living in mud huts and never traveling more than you can walk (on a starvation diet) is the vegan future.
Adapt or die monkey boy
Making yourself feeble is a retarded adaptation.
Dying is even more feeble.
You are retarded.
You're a bore.
Monkey boys are smarter than Greenies!
You're kind of boring, too. You'll have to do better though, if you want to give the other one a run for his money.
Soon we will run them on recycled vegetable oil as well. That is if fried foods are not outlawed in the 'new normal'.
Biodiesel requires both methanol and Sodium Hydroxide (kitchen lye,) both made of burning trees. Not "Green" at all!
I added the word recycled. Doesn't that make it green?
I guess to the Watermelons like mtrueman it would. That's as far as his mind goes. I meant this to go here instead of below.
I guess to the Watermelons like mtrueman it would. That's as far as his mind goes.
So does Superman!
Yep, same here both in the tank and in the battery. In fact, both me and my vehicle are made of star-stuff.
Yeah, when I'm served that stuff in vegan households, it gives me diarrhea. At home I eat almost all natural food, including meats.
Right. Eat real food. The cleanest you can find/afford. That will maximize health and body function.
All food is Natural, along with everything that exists. There is no Supernatural, M'Lady.
*Tips cardboard Burger King crown.*
Wrong on both counts.
But less insane than the alternative that want to process soy, even going so far as to give it hemoglobin derivatives, into meat and then pretend it's somehow cheaper, more efficient, and more natural and healthy than meat.
We made vegetables with blood for humans to eat, just like Mother Nature intended!
I know some vegans who treat it like a cult. They don’t care. Eating meat or even things like milk, eggs and cheese is blasphemous to them. Which is probably why those people are attracted to Marxism too.
> I know some vegans who treat it like a cult.
Pffff. I'd be more impressed if you knew vegans who didn't treat it like a cult. 😉
And most of those people claim to be against creationism, expect for the economy, society, genders, morality, etc.
When I found out that Impossible meat (and others) contained a large amount of seed oil, I knew it was not about health. Industrial seed oils are among the worst - if not the worst - food on can put in ones mouth.
They don't want processed fake meat. They want to legally force you to eat it because of their highly overdeveloped ideals. Once they have a legitimate substitute, the legislation process begins.
so true. and even if it's ''clean label'' from an ingredient standpoint the chemical and mechanical process that 'food' goes through is incredible.
Same in the realm of vehicles:
Flying cars (never came about)
Self-driving cars (wildly exaggerated)
And the latest......electric vehicles being pushed hard. Not gonna happen to any significant extent. There's simply not the infrastructure nor the desire to buy vehicles that perform drastically inferior to the existing product.
The world doesn't change through force of will of utopians.
They just need to kill more people.
Give it a couple days
There have been a number of serious prototypes for flying cars developed.
The real problem is regulatory. For flying cars to be economically viable, they have to be regulated more like cars than like aircraft.
The government insists on the same level/type of regulation as other aircraft.
There would be little to no reason to attempt production at scale under an aircraft regulatory model.
The real problem is regulatory.
No the real problem is physics. It's the same reason why pushing a boat through 25 feet of water is still a viable shipping method nearly a century after air freight.
If you need to travel 20 stories with an armful of groceries, an air car is great. If there's not a 20 story building for miles and you need to travel 20 mi. with even a scant 300 lbs. of concrete, air cars have trouble beating wheelbarrows.
Haul a lot of concrete?
300 lbs is 6 dry bags, not enough to build a patio, more like post holes for a medium sized residential fence.
Yeah. Same weight as 6 50 lb. bags of play sand, 6 50lb. bags of mulch, 6 50 lb. bags of softener salt, 6 50 lb. bags of dog food, 6 50 lb. bags of potatoes, or sugar, or flour or any combination of 6 bags of the above. Or, and I know I'm going out on a limb and am probably going to blow some minds here, but a combination of any of the 5 above bags and one other item, like a medium-sized dog, or a 7 yr. old human, or a 50" TV or 6 gallons of water or a couple cinder blocks. Or...
Haul a lot of concrete?
Live near any 20 story buildings?
OK, I get it—no flying cars. Can I at least have that robot maid in an apron?
Would you? Over Jane or a legal Daughter Judy?
For me, nah. Too frumpy. Give me the real life sexbots!
I liked her voice though. And oh look! There’s an about robots which I might get around to reading.
The only reason we even have civil aviation and cars is that they arrived before the regulators really hit their stride. Our whole civilization depends on things we're only allowed to have because we got them before the government went mad, and they haven't worked up the nerve yet to try to take them away.
Sugar. Aspirin. Tylenol. Same idea. Totally agree. Effectively the same with guns, these days.
I'm going to quote you.
What if they don’t allow you to own a gas powered vehicle?
That would cause a revolution in this country.
What's the difference between the so-called President of the United States and a wedding singer?
The wedding singer will work weekends. Bazinga! I'll be here all day, don't forget to tip the wait staff.
What's the difference between a female wedding singer and a terrorist?
You can negotiate with a terrorist.
If a vegan diet is so wonderful, why do you people keep trying to add faux meat back in?
Something something something omnivores...
Exactly. Why do they work so hard to duplicate the products they are giving up by creating a more processed line of food products. If you want a burger, eat a fucking burger. If you want a hot dog, eat a fucking hot dog. It's not going to kill you and is not that bad if, like anything, it is done in moderation.
Wouldn't be surprised if those fake meats, cheeses, soynaisse and other products lead to a new slew of cancers in the future.
" If you want a burger, eat a fucking burger. If you want a hot dog, eat a fucking hot dog."
And if you want to eat a salad, eat a fucking salad.
With lots of ham and turkey and cheese, with 1000 Island dressing. Maybe bacon bits.
What the hell do you mean MAYBE???
Can we deep fry salad?
It's been done. Kale chips are a thing. Not a good thing but they are a thing.
That is one problematic salad!
Salad with Prime Rib Fajita-style marinated strips is simply fantastic!
Exactly. Though the bacon bits, as expressed below, should be REAL bacon. Not that shit you shake out of the little jar.
"Why do they work so hard to duplicate the products they are giving up by creating a more processed line of food products. "
For the flavor, appearance and texture of meat. A frivolous reason, I grant you, but there it is.
Frivolous indeed.
See my comment on Cancer. That is how that shit ends.
Our President just launched the war against cancer.
He probably should talk to the actuaries at the Social Security Administration.
Most of the vegetarians I've known have been obese women who constantly complain about their health problems.
I've known two types for the most part. Obese women who live on carbs, and raw vegetable eaters who look like cancer patients.
raw vegetable eaters who look like cancer patients.
LOL I've known a couple of those, too, but the fat valetudinarians seem to be the majority.
Hm. Most vegetarians I know use the phrase "I don't eat anything with a face" and don't cite health reasons.
My response is that I want to shoot Bambi in the face because I don't want to damage his liver. Mmmmm. Liver.
Guns are cool again now that you stopped emoting about Rittenhouse?
Yeah, I could’ve sworn sarc said he doesn’t handle guns because he doesn’t trust himself or something to that effect?
He must have been drunk. Or sober. Hard to tell.
I didn't say they cite health reasons for vegetarianism. I said they constantly complain about their health problems. Making them poor ambassadors for any alleged health benefits.
I misunderstood. And that makes a lot more sense.
True acolytes suffer for their religion.
Most of the vegetarians I've known have been obese women who constantly complain about their health problems.
Full discolsure - They are still eating chips and ice cream on the down-low and stopping at McDonalds on the way home from work.
One of the few blind trial, but I guess not taste blind trials, shows vegan diets are still deficient for nutrition in many areas. Nutrient density is simply higher in meat and especially fatty meats. Observational studies have tied growth development issues related to meat scarcity in socioeconomic deficient area. Which is why JHU and policy makers pushing for meatless Mondays and vegan Fridays in poor districts is so harmful.
Fats in particularly are important for brain health, which also explains a lot about vegan deficiencies.
"I don't have a rooting interest here."
Yeah, right. It's apparent you do.
He even says he is a strong supporter in the body. Apparently not due to scientific facts but virtue signaling.
A half lb of fake meat is the same price as a pound of beef. With less nutrients useful to humans.
Our genus has been eating dead animals for two million years. It's going to be tough to break the habit.
Even in places like Japan and parts of India where eating meat was once illegal, it never really took.
Now some of the best beef in the world is Japanese.
My wife and I had wagyu beef for dinner on Valentines Day. Amazing...
Even 'herbivores' like deer will eat meat if they get the opportunity, they just don't go out of their way to find those opportunities.
Around here, it's not unusual to see white tailed deer scavenging fish.
Chicken-fed-chickens are enthused.
India does Goat by the side of the road, and an interesting dish it is. Japan works with its fish but can't wait to get to the US to get some cow.
I passes a whole case of fake meat (right next to the bison, elk and deer selections - which I did not pass without grabbing), and continued to refine my hypothesis about fake meat. Basically, meat is a complex of hundreds or thousands of compounds, in proportions that our bodies have evolved to use and need. Just because fake meat might look or even taste like meat doesn't mean that it will be a good substitute, and it is quite likely (this trans-fats) that it may contain materials that we do not even yet know are unhealthy. I'll pass on fake meat for 50 or 60 years and let someone else serve as the guinea pig. In the meantime, please keep the fire hot, I've got a hankering for a nice sirloin tonight!
We need a proofing view! "I passed", "think trans-fats".....
Trans fats? O-M-G can you be more discriminatory about positive body image toward zhem?
Think fat free and sugar free. Both of those are worse for you than the real thing. That is the key.
What do you call a vegetarian with diarrhea?
Salad shooter!
Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?
Everything but the head, sure. Cannot eat faces and all.
funny
Face meat tacos!
"Dos tacos de cabeza, por favor."
One time I asked this vegetarian chick how she kept a boyfriend if she didn't eat meat. Her response was to shove me down the stairs. It was worth it.
I think she was telling you that she made her boyfriend want to kill himself. I could see vegans being challenging to deal with.
This was when I was in cooking school. Wasn't really sure why she was there since it's difficult to be a good cook if you don't eat anything you make. But we did hang out at the coffee shop after class a lot. She may have been into me but I didn't see her that way at all. She was frumpy, dumpy, and a little bit lumpy.
So, well above your level then?
My fake burger protects you, your fake burger protects me.
There's a great restaurant in Taipei near the Normal University that serves only fake meat, fake shrimp, fake chicken etc. It comes from the kitchen, too. Not factory produced.
Is that anywhere near Normal?
It helps if you are a Buddhist, the traditional target market. Ahimsa, the Hindus call it, the belief in the sacredness of life and the avoidance of inflicting pain and suffering on sentient beings.
So it would be okay to kill you? I mean if the cut off is sentience
"So it would be okay to kill you?"
Not if you are vegan. Their aim is to avoid inflicting pain and suffering.
Better cook the shit out of him.
He has to be loaded with STD’s
You aren’t sentient Tony.
So what explains why The Dali Lama's Tibet had foot-binding of women? Or why Buddhist Monks protested U.S. presence in Southeast Asia by setting themselves on fire?
By the way, Fuck off, Watermelon!
"So what explains why The Dali Lama's Tibet had foot-binding of women? "
Foot binding in China has been banned since the communists took over. I saw a few women in the countryside with feet that had been bound but they were very old, at least by their appearance.
"Or why Buddhist Monks protested U.S. presence in Southeast Asia by setting themselves on fire?"
That was in Vietnam. The restaurant I'm referring to was in Taipei, just east of the Normal University. It was Chinese food and the strange thing I noticed was that the menu listed all the dishes as beef, pork, duck etc but were entirely composed of vegetables cunningly crafted to give the appearance, texture and taste of meat.
"So what explains why... "
Humans can be evil, unthinking creatures. How else would you explain the billions of innocent creatures needlessly and cruelly sacrificed to satisfy a carnivorous diet?
There was a restaurant like that in San Jose, CA that did fake meat well. I think they were called “Vegetarian House”.
It was a little creepy because it was associated with a religious cult, although they didn’t proselytize to the customers. It was years before you could buy vegetarian meat in a normal supermarket.
Watching Grandma's Boy gave me all of the insight to that experience I needed. haha
David Spade - "Hi, my name's Shiloh?"
Yes, the line was expressed as a question.
???
FFS Dee get a clue. Grandma’s Boy is a movie. David Spade is an actor. I’ll let you take it from there.
Jeebus ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jU8TqRBGWc
Did they have “iguana bits”?
Some folks, for many and diverse reasons -- religion, diet, ethics, or even "feel good" -- prefer not to eat meat. For those (I admit to being one of them), the alternatives are nice. But I never believed, even if the costs of "fake meat" was lower than the real thing, that it would replace it in more than a small portion of households. And I don't have a problem with that.
+1 internet unicorn.
In return, as an avid meat eater, don't mind in the least that you prefer veggies or even meat substitutes. Keep up the good work on taboulis, capreses, breads, pilafs, crunchy salads, rice dishes, and stews (though not personally a fan of soups).
Also, not you personally but, knock that kale shit off. That shit's not good for anybody.
"Also, not you personally but, knock that kale shit off."
Kale is "blehh." But the real horrid stuff is quinoa. I can't stand that stuff.
I’ve been trying to eat more unprocessed plants in my diet (with no intention of being completely vegetarian).
Quinoa is unbeatable and awful.
I just tried nutritional yeast for the first time, and it’s kinda tasty. But it is NOT, as often claimed by vegetarians, a substitute for cheese. It doesn’t taste anything like cheese.
Uneatable
"I just tried nutritional yeast for the first time, and it’s kinda tasty. But it is NOT, as often claimed by vegetarians, a substitute for cheese. It doesn’t taste anything like cheese."
I cannot even imagine nutritional yeast as a substitute for cheese. It's darn good on popcorn, however.
I think nutritional yeast is a sub for parm cheese, and when mixed into a dish, not sprinkled on it. Other cheeses are done with weird fats and fake flavorings. Nutrional Yeast also provides the B vitamins one loses from the Vegan diet's lack of meat.
"Nutrional Yeast also provides the B vitamins one loses from the Vegan diet's lack of meat."
Largely true. Most noticeably, the lack of B-12. However, B-12 is actually produced by bacteria, not meat. Cultured foods of many kinds will contain B-12, though it's most readily found in animal products.
Kale pretty much sucks. But quinoa is worse yet.
The best "off the shelf" stuff I have tried is Quorn. It's made from microfungal-derived protein (much like yeast). Not as available as Tofurky and other soy-based substitutes. Yet.
I love Quinoa made with chicken broth like acous-cous. It's basically the same texture as a granulated pasta.
+
But quinoa is worse yet.
I'm a fan of quinoa. Of course, I like my pasta al dente and my oatmeal with more tooth/steel cut. It's OK au natural and I agree it's better served with other stuff. IMO, kale isn't good by itself and anything it is served with is made worse by its presence. Maybe if it were used as an herb rather than a vegetable, but then, why bother?
Kale does good in chicken soups... Just cook it long enough to break down the bitterness.
Yeah. It's okay if one cooks the hell out of it 🙂
If you cook it until it has no texture or flavor and serve it with something else that has texture and flavor, it's great!
I like kale. Put in a bowl with a little balsamic, salt and pepper, and massage it a little to break down the cellulose. Throw it on a hot grill, about a minute per side.
My wife also likes it. Not for me, however.
I like J.J. Cale
If you wanna get down
get down of the ground
Cocaine.
Could be you never had good kale. Thing one: harvest only after hard freezes, or better, in spring when it starts to grow a bit. Thing two: include it, but don't fixate on it - Portuguese Kale soup is a thing in SE New England (probably the only good thing down here). [Onions, linguica, kale, carrots, potatoes, dried beans - slow cooked one day, then reheated the next, mmmmm!]
But a kale salad? Maybe a mouthfull of the fresh stuff while I"m turning the garden over in late winter, but not a whole salad of it.
Portuguese Kale soup is a thing in SE New England (probably the only good thing down here)
(though not personally a fan of soups)
Onions, linguica, carrots, potatoes, and beans already sounds like a fine stew by itself. I agree kale could have some use as an herb or a spice, but there are already so many and so much better herbs and spices, why bother?
I know a couple vegetarians who are that way but just for preference and aren't preachy about it, and I know one person who really wishes she *wasn't* vegetarian because it makes gaining anything from working out a giant pain in the ass, but is actually allergic to beef and pork. Which turned out to not be nearly as uncommon as I thought when I was first dating her, but when I was getting my EMT Intermediate license, one of the drugs in our protocol was a last-ditch diabetes medication that had as one of its restrictions that it shouldn't be used on people with an allergy to either beef or pork. So I guess that's common enough that it gets mentioned in adverse reaction guides for medications.
It was a good thing to know, too, since the lass in question is also diabetic, and the drug basically dumps the very last of the ATP in your cells out to try and jump start you so the EMT can make you eat some of the Field Expedient Sugar Delivery System (a.k.a.: those little cake icing packets for writing stuff on the top) in the hopes of not having to start an IV on someone whose veins are probably fucking collapsed.
Of course, if it doesn't work, then you really have to get that IV going, and RFN.
+
One of the main ingredients of all these products is a Pea Protein Isolate, and who manufactures the majority of Pea Protein in the world, why none other than Chinese companies.
"One of the main ingredients of all these products is a Pea Protein Isolate, and who manufactures the majority of Pea Protein in the world, why none other than Chinese companies."
Are you sure about that? While at least some of these companies have plants in China, the top companies producing pea protein are headquartered in France (2 companies), The USA (4 companies), Ireland , Canada, Belgium, and Peru.
https://meticulousblog.org/top-10-companies-in-pea-protein-market/#:~:text=Founded%20in%201852%20and%20headquartered%20at%20Pecq%2C%20Belgium%3B,nutrition%2C%20meat%20and%20savory%2C%20and%20animal%20feed%20markets.
Fake meat costs more and doesn't taste as good.
Gee, I wonder why it didn't catch on.
It's made from plants, it should be a lot cheaper than meat.
"It's made from plants, it should be a lot cheaper than meat."
Yeah, but the technology used in producing the finished product is relatively new -- a least the technology used to make it more like "meat." It may end up being less-costly than meat (it certainly has the potential to do so), but I seriously doubt it will replace meat in all that many kitchens. And marketing such a product, at least on a large scale, has lots of costs. The market will, in the end, dictate how big the industry gets.
For instance, Tofurky can be found almost anywhere - it's been around for twenty-five years -- and it's not been a significant "player" at any time. On the other hand, it isn't all that good, either 🙂
Tofurky contains quite a bit of nasty industrial seed oils and corn sugar, two foods that have been making people fat and unhealthy since they were main streamed. Those two types of foods plus refined carbs are responsible for the metabolic syndrome epidemic that has ruined the health of 100's of millions on Americans. It will only get worse.
"Those two types of foods plus refined carbs are responsible for the metabolic syndrome epidemic that has ruined the health of 100's of millions on Americans"
"The two basic forces spreading this malady [Metabolic Syndrome] are the increase in consumption of high calorie-low fiber fast food and the decrease in physical activity due to mechanized transportations and sedentary form of leisure time activities."
I would say that while Tofurky (low-fat, high protein, very little fiber), is far from "health food," it's probably still healthier than a hot dog or lunch at McDonalds 🙂
oops. Forgot the link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866840/
If they could produce something that actually tasted as good as cost the same or less, there would be a lot more room for growth. If it tasted as good *and* cost less, adoption would soar.
All current sales data tells us is that they've hit the ceiling for 'tastes worse and costs more'.
As a non-meat-eater (excepting the occasional swordfish), I tend to agree with you -- except that, even if it were less expensive and tastes better, I know, from personal experience, that there is nothing like a really good t-bone steak. Lobster, crab, t-bone steaks, etc., are here to stay. Impossible Meat, Beyond Meat, etc., are quite good in many dishes -- as meat substitutes in soups, chili, lasagna, etc., but not too much beyond that.
There’s also no reason they are constrained to trying to reproduce existing animal-based meats. Someone could invent a new meat taste that isn’t available from an animal source.
Also, it would be great if someone worked on broths that taste meat-like while being vegetarian.
" Someone could invent a new meat taste that isn’t available from an animal source."
That is the tactic that Impossible took: they genetically-modified plants to produce the chemicals that give meat its taste. Obviously, not entirely successful, but the correct path.
Or clone woolly mammoths and make a Mammoth Burger.
Now that I would try, once, just so I could say I did!
And the BBQ Ribs end up tipping over your car when you get them as take out. 🙂
Yeah. That WOULD be a problem.
Yaba daba do!
Wife and I split an "Impossible Burger" not long after they were introduced: Visually appealing, nearly tasteless.
Noticed most folks buying them had them 'Big Mac'd' with all the fixin's and them some; hell, just stick a straw in the ketchup bottle.
Or have them load up a Big Mac bun with all the condiments and no meat patties. Salad on a bun.
The flaw underlying the business model is that this stuff was created by people who don’t want to eat meat and who think no one else should eat it, so they’re hopeful they can wean them off it. It’s a bit like the premise behind Nicorette gum or patches to help wean someone off smoking. However, they are presupposing that people want to quit eating meat, which is likely a flawed assumption. True vegetarians don’t need this. Meat eaters (who generally also eat veggies by the way) might give it a try, acknowledge that they are making it look like meat, but it still doesn’t taste like it. Unlike smokers, there are probably few meat eaters who want to give it up and who need help doing so.
When plant-based options move from being the equivalent of Nicorette to the equivalent of flavored vapes, they'll quite naturally seize a decent share of the market.
(I eat quite a bit of meat. But there are a number of cases where I could accept a substitute, as long as I wasn't expected to pay a virtue tax. For example, I find that I prefer pad thai with tofu instead of chicken, so if I'm in a restaurant that lets me make that substitution for free, of course I order it that way.)
When plant-based options move from being the equivalent of Nicorette to the equivalent of flavored vapes, they'll quite naturally seize a decent share of the market.
When plant-based options move from being the equivalent of Nicorette to the equivalent of flavored vapes, it will be a radically different product in a radically different market and I would probably still choose to vape bacon over vaping soy.
Speaking of Stalin, he died 69 years ago on this date.
Nice.
And tomorrow is the 40th death anniversary of Ayn Rand. Did you remember, Reason?
Ayn rand believed in individualism and capitalism. Her views have no place in reasons "libritarian" political basis
When I was younger, people celebrated 1, 5, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100 anniversaries. Then somewhere along the line the world started getting to impatient to, say, wait until 50, and so we started getting things like Disneyland or magazines or whatever celebrating their 40th anniversary.
Nope, I guess not. There’s robots though…
So, would the proper celebration be mutual oral sex with a Russian?
Or a Georgian (preferably Ossetian)
The science, our teeth, says we are omnivores.
Not eating meat is fighting your own body.
But feel free to carry on. Just leave me to my bacon and bar-b-que.
Trying to mandate anything now is foolish, but banning meat is suicidal.
"The science, our teeth, says we are omnivores.
Not eating meat is fighting your own body.
But feel free to carry on. Just leave me to my bacon and bar-b-que.
Trying to mandate anything now is foolish, but banning meat is suicidal."
Good Evening LONGTOBEFREE:
Banning meat? I can't imagine anything sillier or more stupid.
Our teeth say we are omnivores, and our digestive system, which is capable of combining incomplete proteins from various sources, unlike cats, who suck at it, but like bears who get fat on berries and grubs. Meat is a very efficient way to get all the complete proteins one needs.
You go right ahead and enjoy your BBQ and your bacon. And if someone tries to stop you from eating your favorite food, invite me over, and I will help you kick their sorry ass. K?
.
What I found funny is that when I typed "is plant-based bacon kosher" the top article was one indicating the largest certifier of kosher products in the country would NOT grant it the kosher imprimatur. Because while these products may technically not violate religious kosher law, when a Jewish person consumes them, it gives the appearance of violating their consumption laws.
I just found that interesting.
"Because while these products may technically not violate religious kosher law, when a Jewish person consumes them, it gives the appearance of violating their consumption laws."
That is interesting.
At a Thanksgiving celebration a few years ago at a Buddhist monastery (my brother is Buddhist), some of the artisans had prepared tofu dishes to look almost exactly like large, freshly-roast turkeys, straight from the oven.
One of the monks said to me, softly: "I think they are missing the point."
'
Consumers were never interested in plant based meat. This was 100% idiotic radical activism. They took off on idealistic investments and then bottomed out once they hit the market. Shockingly, no one but vegetarians care about vegetarianism.
"Shockingly, no one but vegetarians care about vegetarianism."
Absolutely true. But then no one but football fans care about football. No one but ice cream lovers care about ice cream. Etc, etc. To each their own.
But then no one but football fans care about football. No one but ice cream lovers care about ice cream.
Agreed on the former, disagreed on the latter.
I truly wish I had the naive innocence of the average libertarian.
When you fail in the market you then have govt subsidize you ("green energy", "Meatless meat").
I have to say I think the biggest factor in killing fake meat is of course the great Joe Rogan. That and countless studies now saying that meat diet does not increase heart disease (more likely sugar and refined foods). Natural Elk and Salmon is perhaps the healthiest diet in the world.
Joe Rogan again destroys the wokes...
Colby will knock out Game Bred as well
"Natural Elk and Salmon is perhaps the healthiest diet in the world."
Natural Elk and Salmon disagree.
Then they can have the diet 5hat make them so healthy for us humans to eat.
Fuck off, Watermelon!
Vegans choose to avoid inflicting pain and suffering on animals such as Natural Elk and Salmon. It will probably become more prevalent as the old die off and are replaced by youngsters who are raised to be aware of the consequences of meat eating. Climate change, zoonotic diseases are a couple of more topical motivations, though there are others like ethical stances which are also important. Older people wedded to a diet of meat will understandably resist adapting, but they will inevitably die off, taking their cruel indifference to the poor suffering beasts with them. In the meantime, All Power to the Soviets!
I love reading the rantings of religious maniacs.
You are a genetic dead end.
Oh, so you're like Rev. Artie is with his "Clingers," only more psychotic, right?
Fuck off, Watermelon!
Enough about meat and veganism. Let's discuss me!
ok Colby didn't knock out Game Bred but he pretty much took his soul
The policy implications of what appears to be declining consumer interest in meat alternatives could be legion. For example, last year Meatless Mondays, a vegetarian-inspired campaign to get cities, foodservice providers, and others to serve vegetarian dishes instead of meat dishes on Mondays throughout the year, extolled New York City's "commitment to meat reduction" as part of the city's absurd 10-Year Food Policy Plan.
Damn, New York City makes no bones about it (no bones yet anywy!))
They not only like Communist 5-Year Plans, but they double-down and make them 10-Year Plans!
With this kind of thinking, modern-day Walter Durantys will have to deny the starvation and cannibalism outside of their office windows.
Colby Cheese and Game Bred? Hmmm....
That and countless studies now saying that meat diet does not increase heart disease (more likely sugar and refined foods).
That combined with the lack of serious studies indicating it produces all sorts of bad outcomes. The conclusion that it (fat in general and animal fat specifically) was bad was reached and the research that people who eat big macs 5X a week are less healthy was rounded up to support it.
“ The U.K.-based Vegan Society, which opposes eating meat,…”
Um….thanks for clarifying their stance on meat consumption. Their rather ambiguous name threw me for a second there…
"steaks, bacon, chicken nuggets, and other foods made from dead animals"
Its hard to eat them live.
Soy is murder
Kind of like telling a lesbian to suck d!ck instead of eating pu$$y. It's just not as good.
Soy contains phyto estrogen. Guess what that does to male hormone production. Hence the term "soy boy."
Ever wonder why Bill Gates is buying up so much farm land? Maybe it's time to find out. What's his real agenda here?
Who ever heard of BBQ fake meat...sorta like BBQing a head of cabbage. So yummy.
Besides , it's much more relaxing sitting outdoors soaking up some vitamin D and keeping an eye on racks of ribs in the smoker whilst enjoying some adult beverage, occasionally throwing a log on the fire. Ever wonder why vegans look so pale and unhealthy?
"Ever wonder why vegans look so pale and unhealthy?"
Seriously? You mean vegans like Carl Lewis? He spent most of his athletic career eating a vegan diet. Of course, genetics and a ton of work made him a world-class athlete, but apparently, and according to his own words, the vegan diet also helped.
Don't generalize.
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson's all meat diet seemed to work very well for him.
There are LOTS of healthy diets out there. I have a couple of friends who swear by a keto diet. Another two or three are vegetarians. Heck, they even get along with each other. Imagine that.
The only people who were ever serious about them were elites.
And unfortunately, they are also the ones that own the farmland in the US
Farmers are "elitist?" That's funny. I thought they were entrepreneurs.
But they'll keep pushing it.
If you have ever eaten any of these products their decline should be an obvious correlation with the number of people who have tried them. I've yet to encounter one I consider edible much less as good as actual meat.
If you prefer a vegetarian diet that's fine but stop pretending these things taste like meat. I also bristle at the advertising that claims since a child likes it that it must be good as if that were a bar of excellence. It's one step above "preferred by 9 out of 10 family dogs" except that you'd be hard pressed to get dogs to eat them.
"If you prefer a vegetarian diet that's fine but stop pretending these things taste like meat."
The best ones taste "sort of like meat." My wife uses them to replace meat products in pasta dishes and the like. Some of them do just fine for that. Making a hamburger out the them tastes "ok" if your standard is McDonalds - that's a pretty low bar. And I am not fooled into thinking they are healthy: the Beyond Meat burger contains enough fat and salt to choke a horse, as the saying goes - it shares that commonality with most fast-food as well.
Beyond that, I don't see why people are so concerned. I mean, it isn't like anyone is forced to eat the stuff, and they certainly aren't going to replace meat for meat-lovers.
About 10 percent of U.S., adults, or 22.8 million people, say they largely follow a vegetarian-inclined diet. I can tell you from my personal experience that means they eat mostly vegetables, excepting for the occasional sirloin or fried chicken.
Approximately 0.5 percent, or 1 million (less than 1-in-300 people), of those are vegans, who consume no animal products at all. And it is a given fact that even most of the die-hard vegans are known to cheat now and then. That includes the Buddhist monks and nuns I used to work with, who could often be seen sneaking out to the local "Quicky Mart" to purchase "Choco-tacos."
In my opinion, the whole "meatless" thing, on both sides, is an overreaction to a "problem" that doesn't even exist.
Beyond that, I don't see why people are so concerned. I mean, it isn't like anyone is forced to eat the stuff, and they certainly aren't going to replace meat for meat-lovers.
Except this isn't entirely true and there are plenty of instances where it's actually A Bad Thing™. Almond milk is a decent example. I don't disagree that almond milk is a decent alternative for people intolerant of dairy and variously bugged by soy, but there are and were people out there asserting that almond milk was better for the planet than dairy. There are and were people out there asserting that meat production has to go because it's spoiling the planet. Ron practically makes this case every time he brings up one of these faux-meat stories. He can't wait to return all the ranches back to nature.
Again, I don't understand with the plethora and efficient bounty of vegetables and the actual need to produce actual improvements, like golden rice, the need to displace meat with veggies. It's not like meat eaters are out there trying to grow cows that taste like lettuce so that they can create a meat salad. Instead, many of the same people that advocate a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle also oppose the use of things like rBGH.
I get what you mean by the outlandish claims -- I just have a hard time imagining anyone takes them seriously. I don't know a single person (personally) that gave up meat to help "save the planet."
And certainly outlandish claims are made for some foods -- I remember when soy was going to "change the world." I found that rather amusing. I mean, soy was domesticated somewhere around 8,000 years ago.
Almond milk is not "good" for the planet. The old saw says "it takes a gallon of water to produce one almond."
Per your comment on Golden Rice -- it simply means fewer deaths and blindness from vitamin A deficiencies in those areas where such is common. It's a lot easier to improve the food that people eat, rather than get them to change what food they have been eating for thousands of years.
As far as "improving" vegetables and foodstuffs, that has been going on for at least 10,000 years and will continue to do so, and I fully support it. One benefit is that it means less farmland is needed to produce the same amount of crops.
That means that more land can be returned to nature -- or used to raise cattle 🙂
Have a good day.
the fake meat is just soul-less.
Long live PETA! People Eating Tasty Animals…
The fake meat fad/scam keeps getting reinvented every decade. Does nobody remember McDonalds 2005 vegetarian burger?
What do tofu and a dildo have in common? They're both fake meat.
As always, you can't trust afficionados of anything to be content just to choose it for themselves. Sooner or later they have to find ways to push it on the rest of us. I agree with the writer on that point. New York is the ultimate nanny state, so it's not surprising they would go along with meatless Mondays.
I also agree there's no need for the government to push meat on us either. Let people just do what they want.
I also have no idea why anyone is anti-dairy. My Scandinavian ancestors survived on dairy products, likely for thousands of years. Why should I turn my back on that because a bunch of cow-eyed young ninnies are mooing about it.
Only a few years ago the trend was fresh and local, naturally produced foods. Then this fake manufactured highly processed stuff came out. If I want vegetables I'll eat them but hey are not meat. When I drive by the farm the whole herd should be nervous.