More Non-Meat Choices Are Better Than Meat Taxes or Bans
More choice can decrease meat consumption without coercion of regressive taxation.

A new study suggests changing food menus to include more fruits and vegetables and less meat options may be an effective and more appetizing way to reduce meat consumption than more restrictive or punitive policies, The Guardian reported this week. The study found that offering fewer meat options and more vegetarian options resulted in a decline in choices that contain meat. The Guardian says the study "showed making it easier to choose meat-free food can be effective and could be a more acceptable approach than other proposals, such as taxing meat or banning it on certain days."
The study, authored by four Oxford University scholars and published this week in the International Journal of Behavioral Nutrition & Physical Activity, examines ways to "increase[e] availability of meat-free meals to promote more sustainable purchasing." The authors support such an approach, arguing that "reducing meat and dairy consumption… could lead to substantial benefits both in terms of health and environmental impact." They conclude "that changing the availability of meat-free options may be a promising intervention to reduce the selection and purchase of meals containing meat."
I don't care one lick whether people eat more meat or less meat, raw meat, fake meat, or no meat at all. I'm highly skeptical of dietary, animal-rights, and environmental arguments against eating meat. I believe government policies should neither promote nor hinder eating meat. I've consistently argued that people should be free to make their own food choices. If I'm evangelical in any way, it's that I preach this: eat what you want.
Others clearly disagree. The urge to tax meat, along with the spread of so-called Meatless Mondays, is an increasingly popular policy proposal—particularly in Europe. Supporters claim anti-meat policies will cure people, animals, and the environment of a host of ills. For example, a 2020 study suggested high taxes on meat (up to 30 percent), coupled with subsidies on fruit and vegetable purchases, would yield a host of improvements in human health and environmental sustainability.
While taxing meat at all—or, particularly, at a time of record beef prices—seems particularly cruel and regressive, meat taxes are gaining traction in some corners. For example, a 2018 study by (other) Oxford researchers called for a global meat tax. Leading British health and environmental groups have urged the government there to adopt a meat tax that would increase the price of beef by 25 percent. Other European countries have weighed taxing meat. Not surprisingly, anti-meat group PETA supports meat taxes. Some advocates have even suggested the spread of meat taxes is "imminent"—and something the United States should adopt.
"I do think that we should seriously consider a meat tax in the U.S.," Prof. Jeff Sebo of New York University told MarketWatch last year. "The meat industry causes massive and unnecessary harm to animals, workers, public health[,] and the environment, and the cost of meat is artificially low because of subsidies and deregulation."
While I disagree with Sebo that the meat industry isn't highly regulated, he's right that it's highly subsidized. (That said, those subsidies have often taken the form of payments to farmers who raise plants—i.e., corn and soy—that many livestock eat). But the urge to tax things that taxpayers already subsidize, and to do so in a regressive way, basically suggests borrowing a page from the broken playbook of those who argue we should tax soda even while the federal government supports the sugar industry. (I won't explain again why it's a bad idea to force taxpayers to support an industry and then punish those taxpayers—with more taxes—for buying that industry's products, instead of simply implementing neither tax in the first place.)
Other critics of meat taxes have also weighed in.
"A tax on red meat would be a retrograde step, both for overall diet quality… and for health inequalities," Carrie Ruxton, a public health nutritionist and dietitian in the United Kingdom, told CNBC in 2018, in an article on the proposed global meat tax. "There is no high-quality evidence linking red and processed meat with heart disease, stroke[,] or diabetes, and a risk of bowel cancer only applies when weekly intakes exceed 700g. As few people in the U.K. are at this level of consumption, a general meat tax would be like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut."
If it's true that more restrictive policies such as meat taxes are less palatable to consumers than ones that involve no government intervention, and that the latter voluntary approach is effective, then just what does the new Oxford study confirm? Ultimately, it suggests food sellers that want people to eat less meat (or, as the study puts it, sellers that want to make more "sustainable purchasing" decisions) should simply change their menus to include more vegetarian options.
Is that a good business decision? Maybe not. Maybe so. The study authors note that a key barrier to the success of their preferred approach is that it would require "chefs implementing a shift towards greater availability of meat-free meals when baseline meat consumption is high." That may be a tall order. But since it's one that requires no government intervention, it's also one that—unlike mandatory taxes—preserves choices, and allows food sellers to choose to embrace or avoid it. I'm cool with that.
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I notice the stock photo features avocado. I never even liked avocado until the past few years, when I discovered I liked them in salad rotten. Once the meat in them gets to be like a jelly, it forms a salad dressing or mixes with salad dressing.
Oh, I made an avocado crema sauce for my taquitos last night and it would probably work well as a salad dressing too, but the recipe is super simple:
- Avocado
- Sour cream
- Jalapeno
- Garlic Powder
- Salt & Pepper
- Blender
I guess you have to crush the blender really fine, and discard the electric parts.
I see what you did there. 🙂
I thinkThe Guinness Book of World Records one time had a record of a Frenchman eating an entire bicycle turned into filings in such-and-such number of days. I think it was things like that which prompted them to give up on gastronomic records.
Quantities would be very helpful, Minadin. 🙂
(sounds like a good recipe)
I don't measure anything, but, 2 avocados, 1 jalapeño, half of one small tub of sour cream (8 oz tub, so 4 oz), maybe about a teaspoon of garlic / salt / pepper. Put that in the blender and frappe.
If it's too thick I add some lime juice.
Can also add anchor or chipotle powder, cilantro or parsley.
Is this the Martha Stewart magazine?
Might as well be.
She went to prison for something she didn’t do. But the jeff and Tony caste were jealous of her success and to them success should be punished. Her new Bic lighter ads with Snoop Dogg are funny.
If it was we would be giving stock tips. (I kid, we all know Martha went to jail for "obstruction" which is fed talk for getting a lawyer and asserting your right to a jury trial)
Sounds.Really.Good!!!
I will make it for the Super Bowl
0 grams avocado.
0 grams sour cream.
What happened is that my late housemate (a friend since 1988 who moved in with me in 2018 and died in 2021) grocery shopped with me and wanted avocado. I told him I wouldn't eat it, but wouldn't refuse it as part of our basket if he liked it. I put it on top of the refrigerator to ripen, where he forgot about it. By the time I called his attention to it, it'd gotten to where most people would consider it garbage. I said maybe I could salvage it, and proceeded to use it in salad, and we both liked it. I still don't keep it around as frequently as I do tomatoes, but I do occasionally buy one for such use, and use half an avocado per salad. Not every salad, mind you, I wouldn't use it in a mayonnaise salad, but it works in a leaf salad.
I really miss my friend. He said living with me was the best time of his life, which is good because the last few years of the 20 he'd spent with his lady friend had been bad for them. I just wish it could've been longer, but CoVID-19 happened to hit him at a time when his diabetes drugs had just stopped working, and elevated blood sugar is pro-inflammatory. The preceding months had been part of his great pleasure because the church he joined within months after he moved in here started a daily prayer project at the beginning of 2021 that he attended, uh, religiously, but they sang and chanted a lot, so SARS-CoV-2 really hit them hard. (The masks do nothing!) He traveled the farthest of anyone in their congregation to attend, waking up and driving before dawn to be there for the whole session. His dog of many years also died a year before he did.
And he was the second housemate since I moved in in 2015 who died. And part of a bunch of us who were friends thru each other who died in the past year, most without much warning. And now I'm looking at having the friend thru which I knew them all move in here; if I named him, old movement libertarians might recognize him, since he was there when the Radical Libertarian Alliance broke off from YAF.
I meant 2016, not 2015.
You might have heard of two of these people: Kathy Greene (wife of Ralph Fucetola, who you may have read of via Jerome Tuccille Sr. or J. Neal/Neil Schulman, both of whom have also passed on in recent years); and Andrew Greene (late of Pink Pistols fame, picked off not-so-old by a bleeding stomach ulcer).
Schulman is dead?! Did not know that.
I have a feeling that in 5 years we are going to find out your a serial killer, with all your roommates dropping like flies
Was thinking the same.
Kindest thoughts on your loss...or is it your loss? Hmmmm....
Sometimes, I would confuse L. Neil Smith and J. Neil Schulman and when corrected, I would get flustered and say: "Oh!...One of them three-named Libertarian Neil Folks!" 🙂
I don't know if eating things rotten is ever a good idea. It may have hallucinogenic properties or worse. Food preservation is considered a survival skill for a reason.
We consume a lot of things that I guess we could consider "lambically" processed by fungi and/or bacteria. In some cases, like sourdough, we haven't yet found a starter culture that gives results even as good as the ambient spores that these food materials culture on their own.
Mold tends to ruin fruit, but there's a "noble rust" that I think is a mold that improves the quality of certain grapes as used in making wind at least.
Edelfaule is "noble rot" , not rust- a mold that dehydrates ripe riesling grapes allowing the production of very sweet wine,
Civilized nations deplore the use of grapes in making wind.
I was about to say. I've never encountered a wine that makes people flatulent. You'd have to have a good dose of beans first, then I guess the alcohol would loosen the sphincter.
Ever make wine? If you try it before it's done fermenting, the live yeast can give you some explosive farts.
I've made "hooch" from Welch's Grape Juice Concentrate and while it could have fermented longer, it had an alcoholic bite and it didn't make me need any Tums.
I'm a fan of both yogurt and sourdough myself, but whenever I made them, I used live active yogurt culture from store-bought yogurt and sourdough from Fleischmann's Yeast, so they were known commodities. Ditto with mushrooms. I only stick with the mushrooms in the produce section.
Still assumes there's some need to control what people eat, Linnekin just prefers manipulation to coercion.
Since many of the quotes are British, the response should be "sod off, you wankers".
Did you read the article? He's reporting on a study, not making an argument.
You've adopted your lover mikes behaviors quite well. You two mist truly be in love.
Except Sarc is right. Linnekin is very clear in unambiguously denouncing any attempt to control what we eat.
Once again, whoever writes the headlines on these articles continues to screw things up.
It doesn't matter if he is right. I'm discussing behaviors. His criticism is solely about other posting at this point. When was the last time he actually criticized a topic. Look at the other thread. His only goal is to distract.
Once again JesseAZ is a lying sack of shit that is going to stay on mute forever.
How do you know he’s lying if you have him on mute?
Drunken rage unmute?
So typical weekend morning.
Also a typical weekday morning.
You've been going out of your way to impress the trolls lately. The other day talking about me and my daughter role playing, and I can only imagine what kind of garbage your replying to. It takes a real piece of garbage to imply incest. Are you trying to be muted? If so just ask. If impressing the trolls is your goal, nothing is better than being muted my me.
Ideas!
Sarc swears he never ad hominems. He only talks about ideas, not people.
It's probably that mean old Tulpa stealing his ID again.
What lie? Cite?
It amazes me how often commenters here mistake neutral quotation of something like a study for advocating a position.
It amazes me how often you squawk all over these comments.
It amazes me how often Mike has nothing to bring besides hectoring retorts and light trolling.
Nothing amazing about it. It's just a reminder that half the people out there are below average intelligence.
This from the commentariat's closest thing to an actual retard. Have you figured out what a 'strawman argument' is yet, sarcasmic?
Still in amazement of Cuban sandwiches.
What are these “Cuban”
Sandwiches you speak of?
Ideas!
Below median.
Seriously, seems to be a lot of outliers on the low side so most likely slightly more than 50% are above average.
That or stupid people are good at passing themselves off as smart.
I find that a lot of stupid people have good memories. So they remember smart stuff and say smart stuff to look smart, but they don't actually understand a lick of it.
You just described yourself you goddamn freak!
Hey VM, you got the ultimate troll prize! You're on mute forever!
Have fun playing in the sandbox with the rest. Just like them, your posts will never be read nor answered.
You're cool now!
POST YOUR ENEMIES LIST, SARCASMIC!
And don't forget to rank us, even if only the top 100.
I'm surprised you are willing to claim you counted and categorized quotes, since you obviously missed this non-quote by the author:
Fuck off, wanker.
The take away is that Linnekin is OK with making the world safe for social engineering and societal intervention, as in :
" changing the availability of meat-free options may be a promising intervention."
+1 Ribeye for you!
You are constantly being manipulated. The meat industry runs ads. The restaurant industry designs menus to get you to buy high price items. Vegetable producers run ads. This website runs banner ads.
"Manipulation" instead of coercion is the whole point! And the author said he didn't care so what's your point?
"You don't need 23 kinds of food"
-Bernie Sanders, probably
I like his chicken.
That's like Elvis Presley's joke about Col. Parker, in response to his saying he liked his music, "Thank you, Colonel, and I like your chicken." When I was 15 years old I had to be dragged to a performance by Presley, whom until then I'd regarded as a has-been cornball musician; turned out he was a terrific entertainer.
"You only need 2"
What would Bernie's two be: Boost and Jello Pudding? Him and Biden are of that age.
Bernie’s two would be Ben and Jerry’s.
But we can only have 2 flavors.
And one flavor has to be maple syrup to subsidize the local Vermont maple syrup maker's commune.
Oh, that's right. They are all Vermonters. And Anti-Capitalists too. IIRC, B&J tried to limit their CEOs pay to something like $200,000 a year...'til they found they couldn't get good CEOs that way.
"changing the availability of meat-free options may be a promising intervention to reduce the selection and purchase of meals containing meat."
Uh, huh. And changing the availability of meat-containing options may be a promising intervention to reduce the selection and purchase of meat-free meals.
I wouldn't mind if they shifted some of the taxes from grain-based booze to cereal and meat. But not to wild-catch fish, since there's no feed going into them. On a caloric basis, liquor is greatly overtaxed compared to other sources of calories. The simpler thing to do would be not to tax these things at retail at all, but just the raw grain at harvest. That would make wine, fruit, and vegetables relatively cheaper, but it's hardly worth taxing the inputs to those. And the amounts of tax should be low enough to cause hardly any shift in consumption preference; I'm thinking in terms of revenues only. If ever the "nudge" toward wine, fruits, and candies away from beer, bread, and cake gets to be more than slight, that's too much tax.
Or just tax all of the products at the same rate.
The simpler thing to do would be not to tax these things
FTFY
Raw grain prices are already so low, that most wheat farmers often lose money per acre, adding a tax would hurt them the most.
The biggest problem in the grain currently is the rampant speculation and market manipulation by one country in particular, China. China's grain growing region is in the North and Northwest, but there is little connection to their eastern populations and southeast animal ag industry. So the government buys the grain and dumps it into huge uncovered, outdoor piles where it sits for years and buys grain from the US and Australia. They can afford to do that because they report their harvest (which many believe they fudge) and on hand stores (though everyone agrees that their reports of 7 years worth of grain is not accurate as much of it would be spoiled or buggy). Whenever prices start to increase, China threatens to release the reserve, and the speculators go along with it because it allows them to short grain futures.
I don't like subsidies but almost every country we compete with heavily subsidizes their grain (much more than we do) which allows them to sell grain on the international market for less then out farmers would be able to unsubsidized. It's a conundrum. We're the largest grain producers in the world, but we compete with heavily subsidizes grains from Europe (especially Ukraine and Russia), Australia, Canada, China (which blatantly manipulates the market) and Argentina (and Brazil to a lesser degree). Our subsidies are lower than most countries because US farmers tend to be the most efficient in the world. But the degree of efficiency isn't enough that we could remain competitive against subsidized grain on efficiency alone (Canada and Australia, England, Ireland, France and Germany are nearly as efficient, while the Ukraine and Russia and Argentina are quickly catching up). The Ukraine and Russia have very similar environments to our plains states so have the potential to be as productive as US farmers.
The international nature of agricultural commodities greatly complicates the subsidies issue, and one in which Reason ignores.
Yes, it a perfect world we should eliminate subsidies, and every other country should. China should be punished for their market manipulation (India has done similar things, slapping huge tariffs on US pulse crops, causing the prices to plummet and then contracting the US crop at the lower price and waving tariffs).
I am not certain what the answer is. I do believe that subsidies don't help farmers as much as we think they do, but on the other hand I don't see how we can compete against heavily subsidized grain from other countries. The Canadians do similar things with timber.
Why should we compete to see who's better at subsidizing? Just buy the imports and invest in something more lucrative.
A country that doesn't supply its own food is not a secure country. No, I never said we should compete on subsidies, just that farm subsidies are a far more complex issue than simple minded people like you believe. We have nation states governments actively gaming the commodities markets to keep prices artificially low. This hurts US farmers, who receive far less subsidies than their competitors. It's easy to say no subsidies, but do you really want to rely on other countries for staple foods, like we do oil? That's a fucking stupid position to take.
Everyone seems to already forget the supply chain issues from covid... PPE at the start was hard to come by as countries horded supplies. Toilet paper. Etc.
Yeah, we've had some food shortages because of the supply chain issues, but it could be a lot worse if we didn't produce so much of our own food.
We have nation states governments actively gaming the commodities markets to keep prices artificially low.
Which benefits consumers.
This hurts US farmers, who receive far less subsidies than their competitors.
I'm not sure what your point is here. When other companies rob taxpayers to pay farmers to sell stuff to us at artificially low prices, every single American who eats gluten benefits. Hundreds of millions of people. But because the benefits are dispersed, and because consumers don't have lobbyists, this goes unseen. What is seen is the wealthy farmers (most farmers who get subsidies are doing quite well) complaining that it's just not fair that other countries spend more tax dollars on subsidies than we do.
It's easy to say no subsidies, but do you really want to rely on other countries for staple foods, like we do oil?
There's a word for self-sufficiency. It's poverty.
That's a fucking stupid position to take.
No, it's a consumer oriented position, as opposed to protectionist and merchantilist economics that was discredited two and a half centuries ago.
*When other
companiescountries*Where's the edit button?!?
There's a word for relying on others, it's called being a hostage.
As for self sufficiency being poverty, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It makes absolutely zero sense. God, you are simplistic.
Or to put it another way, subsides are just part of another country's comparative advantage. If subsidies allow them to sell stuff for less than we can produce it, then we should produce something else! If they want to rob their taxpayers to make stuff cheaper for us, let them! It's economics 101. And those principles don't get thrown out the window just because it's convenient for a protectionist argument.
God you are an idiot. If we don't produce our own food, we rely on other countries for our food, just like oil. How has that worked out idiot? Or microchips, how has that worked out? Tried to buy a car lately. God you said the same stupid, ignorant thing Roberta did.
My point was exactly what I said, it is far more complicated than your simplicity.
I would think that an agricultural sector that is unsubsidized is ultimately more secure than one that is subsidized. Having no safety net would give producers an incentive to produce better and cheaper and diversify into innovating new products made from raw agricultural products. And remember, we in the U.S. still have the edge on Genetic Engineering as well as automation and AI so these can be applied to greater domestic agricultural production.
Also, it helps to remember that having fewer people in agriculture doesn't mean we are out of the agriculture entirely, just that the technology enables far more production from far fewer people. Only around 2 percent of U.S. Citizens are in agriculture, yet we produce enough to feed a Planet and have plenty going to waste.
Food security is probably the least of our worries but as recent news shows, getting food to market can a big problem when unions rules get in the way and people are just getting paid to exist with stimulus checks. That right there is a real threat to the security of this nation
And once that land is no longer in agriculture, after American farmers go broke, it isn't going back into agriculture ever again. It will be sold and either developed or turned into nature preserves. Yes, American farmers can't compete without subsidies because no else competes without subsidies. Subsidized Canadian timber has greatly injured the US unsubsidized timber industry. Because they subsidize their timber companies the companies can cut less mature trees and sell lumber for far less than US timber companies. It would be even worse for agriculture.
Ironically, in the US per capita consumption of red meat is down quite a bit from 40-50 years ago, though consumption of poultry is up. If Impossible Burgers and other such foods take off then yes, per capita meat consumption would decline further. So the author is correct. What more do they want?
However, there will still be those among us who will keep eating meat (I certainly plan to do so), and since we didn’t conform the screams to regulate or punish us will get louder and louder.
Changes in factory farming made chicken a lot cheaper.
My main problem with the impossible type stuff is that it is taking up valuable shelf space in my local grocers meat department, displacing some of the specialty cuts that used to be available, which I liked.
Secondary problem is that it is no more healthy, either nutritionally or ecologically.
But does read meat give you the feeling of smug self superiority? I didn't think so
The USDA should force them to put it on the nutrition labels.
A good martini and a steak dinner though, and I am quite able to tune out the smug beings eating veggie meat.
Do you think that’s going to be left up to you?
I reckon I’m old enough that I’ll be able to keep it up for the rest of my life, and as my hearing goes perhaps I won’t hear the screams demanding that I confirm. But my local Cattlemen’s is still a hopping place.
I mean, its more expensive, but I live in a very liberal place and there are like 3 butchers within a 20 minute drive from my place. Yeah its harder to find good meat at the grocery store but its available, tastier too.
"I'm highly skeptical of dietary, animal-rights, and environmental arguments against eating meat."
And you are right to be. The idea that meat is "unsustainable" is an absurd and ridiculous, unscientific notion being pushed by activists who have infiltrated scientific institutions.
This anti-meat crusade has all the hallmarks of cultural infiltration that CRT did. One day it was die hard leftists in academia talking about this, and then it spills out into schools and finally every day institutions. And before you know it you are looking around at rich elites taking away your rights.
If they get their way, when Bill Gates owns all the ranch land, he'll still get meat when he wants it. He'll cover the carbon tax costs at banquet dinners where meat is served as a sign of status. And deplorables will feel blessed to have a roast beef at Christmas and a Tofurkey on Indigenous Workers Day.
The way this stops is to immediately and quickly laugh at anyone who suggests that meat is more sustainable than vegetarian. It is, quite possibly, one of the biggest loads of nonsense ever. Free range animals are spectacular at managing the growth of green space. They are far less impactful than clear-cutting thousands of acres of land and rendering it near inhospitable to animals and insects of all kinds, and often killing many more.
Meat animals have spent millions of years adapting the biological mechanisms necessary to turn a whole host of plants into dense calories that humans can then make use of. It is a longer process to take solar energy to create plants, and then create meat which we consume, but it is also less impactful to the environment than replacing a swath of land with cereal grains, fruits and vegetables that have been bred over the years to deliver calories directly.
I am not saying that we SHOULD promote a Meat-lifestyle. I am merely saying that "intellectuals" talking about the sustainability of meat eating are agenda-driven hacks who are cherrypicking data to prove a foregone conclusion. Don't let them do it.
The cutting edge of anti-meat was the anti-fur movement. What ever happened to that? Wasn't it bizarre? People were throwing paint on fur being worn on the street.
Now those people are hiding their freaky species-ethics under layers of environmental bullshit. Because they figured out that Environmentalism is the best way to exercise whatever control you can over the populace.
I guarantee you there are academics out there right now trying to figure out how to tie meat-eating to the Pandemic, because that is the only cause more potent than environmentalism at putting the poor back into serfdom.
Why do you seem to always assume those who you disagree with have bad intentions?
Putting the poor back into serfdom is the logical conclusion of environmentalism, but it isn't the intent. Environmentalists are watermelons. Green on the outside, red in the middle. They're communists. They want equality because inequality makes them feel bad. They don't understand that [forced] equality is the lowest common denominator.
I don’t see anything incompatible between your imputing of intent and mine.
That they feel equality is more imporatant than free choice doesn’t really matter to me. Thei policies are evil and result in serfdom. If they don’t realize it they are being willfully obtuse.
I also am sick of people telling me I need to talk nice as people whatever their intentions lie and obfuscate to get their way. Watermelons are being deceitful when pushing communism under the guise of environment. CRT people are deliberately undermining free market and freedom with Marxism under the guise of racism. I have zero interest in giving them the benefit of the doubt.
If you didn't notice, this is another technique he has adopted from Mike. The whole "but they had good intentions when China killed millions of people" gambit.
That’s an old dodge.
You will never persuade anyone if you start off by putting them on the defensive by accusing them of having evil intentions.
I'll make you a deal. I will offer exactly the same level of "Persuasion" to Watermelons as you offer to the trumpaloos.
I don't accuse them of bad intentions.
Here is what you said:
"You will never persuade anyone...accusing them of having evil intentions."
That sure seems like you are saying that the reason I ought to worry about peoples' intentions* is so that I can persuade them. Is that wrong? If so, then the first question is why I should persuade these specific people. You seem to think certain people are not worth persuasion...Why cannot I do the same?
Nevertheless, a person who is already engaged in deceit- trying to push communist, anti-capitalist "equality" under the guise of "environmentalism" or "anti-racism" is arguing in bad faith. Do you think such people are open to persuasion? They are already lying about their intentions, so it seems your assumption that they are doing things in the name of utopia is just as likely as them doing it to put themselves in charge of a dystopia.
So the question is, why should I be persuading these people, when you have given up persuading others?
* - And this all assumes you have never questioned the intent of others. Are you really going to stand by that statement? Because I can think of a situation where you hounded me accusing me of hidden intentions.
I never said I never question the intent of others. I just try to give them the benefit of the doubt at first. For example JesseAZ does not have good intentions. He's a piece of shit who gets off on being mean.
I don't doubt you have good intentions trying to drive off Mike and SPB, but what's the point? You're the one who ends up looking like a jerk.
As far as trying to see things from another point of view, it helps in understanding where they're coming from. You don't have to agree.
I don't have time to finish this conversation today. Maybe another time.
I'm asking you to try to think from their point of view. Sure it might make your head hurt, but it's worth a shot. Try to imagine the good intentions that they have in their minds. They don't intend to impoverish everyone. They intend to spread the wealth and lift everyone up. And, blinded by their good intentions, they do not see the terrible results of the policies they support. In fact they get angry when it's pointed out because they cannot make the connection. They cannot understand how good intentions can have bad results. Bad results must come from bad intentions. So they see capitalists like us as having bad intentions because we don't support equality. When we have good intentions because we understand that capitalism makes everyone richer. Unequally richer yes, but even the poorest become wealthier.
Thing is, most people have good intentions. Even Hitler had good intentions. He thought he was making Europe a better place. That's not defending what he did. Just saying that in his own mind he wasn't evil, though his actions indeed were.
"I'm asking you to try to think from their point of view."
Again...why? These are people who we both admit are lying about their intentions. Watermelons are lying about saving the environment to push a communist agenda. Is it because they actually want to usher in Utopia, or because they see themselves as the Elite in a dystopian dictatorship? You certainly don't know. You are just giving them the benefit of the doubt based on your biases.
"Even Hitler had good intentions. He thought he was making Europe a better place. That's not defending what he did. Just saying that in his own mind he wasn't evil, though his actions indeed were."
Alright Hitler had good intentions. So? Do you think that would have made him persuadable if people had just understood he meant well?
Sometimes "good intentions" are just evil, with a name that wants them to sound good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QeTbmchvQ
Crypto-marxists want to create a world where people have no personal property, and it is managed by technocrat elites. It *is* serfdom, no matter how many "post-racial equity" labels you want to put on it. They intend to create serfdom, just as Burns intended to empty the oceans of its fish. What is the point of letting them win a rhetorical point by calling it something with a better PR name?
I guarantee you there are academics out there right now trying to figure out how to tie meat-eating to the Pandemic
More likely tie it to cancer. As Sleepy Joe opens up the battle against nature on another front.
I did appreciate PETA’s “I’d rather go naked then wear fur” campaign.
Not if you saw the typical vegetarian in New England.
I’d rather they go naked while I wear fur.
Works if you’re Italian.
You can force vegans to read meat labels , but you can't make them think.
I think maybe some of those PETA people who would use magic markers on fur coats ran up against readers of The Backwoodsman Magazine and said PETA members either got a Bowie Knife in the gut or a Derringer round in the noggin.
The Backwoodsman Magazine
https://backwoodsmanmag.com/
"Free range animals are spectacular at managing the growth of green space. "
Because they are vegetarians for the most part. Were they to adopt the meat eating diet of humans, your sustainability would go out the window.
Whooooooosh!
The animals he praises as being good stewards of the land are vegetarians.
I got that the first time.
Maybe you could explain this:
"The way this stops is to immediately and quickly laugh at anyone who suggests that meat is more sustainable than vegetarian. It is, quite possibly, one of the biggest loads of nonsense ever. "
I find it confusing.
Your confusion amuses me.
To grow the amount of protein that we get from meat would require that we plow all arable land, and semi-arable land. Since you would be converting that land from perineal grasses to annual grasses you would actually be harming soil health. Additionally, the land would be less hospitable for wildlife. On a calorie per calorie basis, meat, especially need, is more sustainable than annual crops. It isn't hard to understand.
But most of the animals we eat are not free range, even the fish is coming from farms these days. Animals who are not free range can't fend for themselves and eat plant matter provided them by farmers who grow the crops you decry.
"But most of the animals we eat are not free range, even the fish is coming from farms these days."
So what? That doesn't mean we ought to abandon meat. It means we ought to modify our meat production. And fish farms are a FAR FAR different animal. They are in fact a superior form of fish cultivation than fishing.
"So what? "
When you take into account that most meat is raised on feed lots, your sustainability argument goes out the window is what.
Most beef cattle in the US are raised on range and finished in feedlots. They spend a good portion of their lives grazing.
Additionally, red meat provides more essential nutrients and a better amino acid profile then plant based proteins, on a calorie per calorie basis. It also provides a more well rounded lipid profile, and contrary to popular belief we need lipids in our diet, for proper hormone production, especially sex hormones, and for proper brain development and function.
Humans can thrive on a diet totally devoid of meat. Indians for example. Israelis, too.
Low T soy boys as well. One can still watch anime, play video games and collect action figures on a no meat diet.
I take it you disapprove.
Wait, I thought the food of choice for basement-dwelling gamer geeks and comic/action figure fans was Hot Pockets. Plenty of good meat there. 🙂
"Humans can thrive on a diet totally devoid of meat. Indians for example. Israelis, too."
First of all, this is not true. All humans get animal proteins in different ways. It is noteworthy that India is only about 20 - 30% vegetarian, based on which count you do (some Indian populations consider themselves vegetarian despite eating fish). Those that are *strictly* vegetarian have traditionally gained these proteins through milk from cows (which introduces the same concerns as meat eating) and insects mixed into cereal grains during harvest, processing, shipment and sale. As food processing has gotten better in India (screening out insect matter), the result has been increasing B12 deficiency among vegetarians.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29446340/
Indians don't mix insects into grain to supplement their diet. The Jains notoriously go about wearing masks over their mouths to prevent the inhalation of flying insects. Israel has the world's highest proportion of vegans who completely eschew all animal products. It makes kosher cooking a lot easier.
Finally, humans are omnivores, we have almost no cecum, ergo our digestive tract has evolved to rely on animal proteins to function properly.
With the invention of agriculture, animal protein intake actually decreased for most humans. As a result, our health, life span and height all drastically were impacted negatively. Since we grew more affluent with the industrial revolution, our meat intake increased, to around what it was in our hunter gatherer days. Our life spans, health, height, etc all increased dramatically.
Our obesity crisis only started occuring in the 1970s, when we began replacing meat calories with plant based calories, especially cereals. High animal protein and lipid diets, according to 30 years of research, are associated with less obesity, lower heart disease, lower hypertension, lower diabetes type II, etc. I know the FDA still recommends lower meat consumption, but this isn't based on science, it's based on lobbying by the grain industry and animal rights groups.
As for carbon sequestration, grazed grasslands sequest and store far more carbon than either croplands or forests. Far more than cattle produce. Also, grasslands that are grazed responsibly (which is most of them that are grazed, because ranchers depend on healthy grasses to raise their cattle) are healthier than non grazed grasslands, and have more biodiversity. They also have lower fire danger, and when they do burn, the burn cooler and less destructively and less acres burnt. Grazed grasslands also carry more wildlife at all levels of the food chain, and, because the grass tends to be more nutritious, the wildlife tends to be healthier. The only issue is riparian areas, but best grazing practices, i.e. fencing, creating hard point crossings, strictly managed grazing of riparian areas, actually benefit riparian areas. Most ranchers are adopting these practices. Water quality and turbidity is actually more negatively impacted by plant based agriculture, especially grain and pulse crops. These produce more runoff, use more chemicals (even organic), use more fertilizer (even organic) and tend to remove all vegetation along the riparian areas. Plant based agriculture is actually far less sustainable then meat agriculture by almost any measurement you can provide.
"Finally, humans are omnivores,"
Some are, some aren't. See previous comment.
"Grazed grasslands also carry more wildlife at all levels of the food chain, and, because the grass tends to be more nutritious, the wildlife tends to be healthier."
When I was in Tibet, I found the big issue was people gathering yak turds in lieu of firewood. Apparently the soil was being starved of nutrients because of the practice. I arrived in the spring after a particularly harsh winter that killed thousands of yaks due to exposure. I remember seeing convoys of trucks carrying their bones back to civilization.
"Some are, some aren't. See previous comment."
This is just wrong. B12 deficiency is a large and growing problem among populations that are improving their agriculture to remove insect matter in the harvest, and are not getting access to alternatives such as eggs and milk.
"When I was in Tibet, I found the big issue was people gathering yak turds in lieu of firewood. Apparently the soil was being starved of nutrients because of the practice."
This is not actually a rebuttal of what Soldier said.
"This is not actually a rebuttal of what Soldier said."
It wasn't meant to be. It simply spelled out some problems with grazing animals.
"B12 deficiency is a large and growing problem"
The world is full of large and significant problems. I wouldn't count B12 deficiency among them.
B12 deficiency is a major problem, as B12 is a essential nutrient. It leads to all sorts of poor health outcome. God, that was a pretty dumb thing to say.
Where at in America are people gathering cow patties to burn? That was a stupid example to use. Fuck, I can't even.
"B12 deficiency is a major problem,"
So eat a couple of crickets with your Sunday dinner. No need to build a factory for killing cows.
"Where at in America are people gathering cow patties to burn?"
Check out South Dakota Indian reservations. The yak of Tibet played for many years same role as the bison for the plains Indians and dung burning might be preserved in ceremonial functions.
"That was a stupid example to use. Fuck, I can't even."
I'm not surprised you disapprove. It's something I personally saw, not repeated second hand from some news source. Harsh weather can decimate herds and robbing the soil of its chance to absorb the nutrients from dung are both problems with raising free range livestock, in Tibet. They don't really have much choice because the only thing that grows in abundance on the plateau is grass. Incidentally it's also the source of what is perhaps the most expensive chinese herbal medicine, a strange fungus that grows from the body of its larval insect host. The Chinese ideographs for the name are instructive: 冬蟲夏草 winter insect summer grass. They are best harvested by children as young as 6 with their sharp eyes and their ability to scramble up and down slopes like goats.
I have an actual MS in Animal Science and ranch. Grew up on a reservation, live adjacent to another. No, indians are not burning animal crap. They may burn some buffalo dung for ceremonial purposes, but that is such a small amount it's insignificant and has no impact on soil health. As for factory farms that is a made up term. Most beef cattle are not spending their whole lives, or even half of their lives in feedlots
They are spending it on range. Fuck, yes you did get your information from reading something. I actually live what you think you're talking about. And nothing you've said is even close to being accurate yet.
"They may burn some buffalo dung for ceremonial purposes"
This was my response to your earlier question.
It seems the animal scientists who taught you your trade neglected to tell you that mankind can thrive on a meat free diet.
All people are omnivores, it's how we evolved. Some people choose to deny the science, for personal reasons. That doesn't mean their bodies didn't evolve to be omnivores, just that they are denying nutrients that their body needs, and this must supplement heavily.
Just who's the boss around here? Me or my body?
Your body. You can make a choice not congruent with your dietary needs, it doesn't change biology.
A vegetarian diet is congruent with a body's needs. There are millions of people who follow the diet and thrive. What more evidence do you want?
"Were they to adopt the meat eating diet of humans, your sustainability would go out the window."
I guess I will...assume that you are genuinely confused here and explain.
If animals adopted meat eating, they wouldn't be very good eating for humans. Generally meat eaters are not great food. (Bear tastes pretty bad, unless it is from areas like Alaska where a significant amount of their diet is salmon and blueberries.)
The problem is not how to keep animals alive. The problem is how to keep billions of humans alive. And dedicating natural space to open forage zones is far more "sustainable" and healthy for the environment than clearcutting that same space and planting corn. In addition to sustaining our cows, it sustains numerous other wildlife and plant life that are beneficial for insects.
Since we cannot sustain ourselves off of grass, like cows do, living off the land without meat means we have to plant nutrition-dense cereal grains in a manner that allows us to quickly harvest. That means turning acres of land into veritable dead zones, where no bird, insect, or small mammal can live- for to do so is to be poisoned by pesticides or sliced to bits by a combine. You might find the picturesque, terraced rice patties of the East beautiful (I certainly do), but to nature, they are essentially no different than a parking lot.
This isn't about being "stewards of the land". We are here to survive, and survival can be done in various ways. The idea that our best chance of surviving is by foregoing cows for wheat is laughable on its face.
"but to nature, they are essentially no different than a parking lot"
There were always egrets stalking about in the rice paddies where I lived in Asia. They must have found something to their liking.
"The idea that our best chance of surviving is by foregoing cows for wheat is laughable on its face."
Have you ever been to India? There are some billion Hindus living there and they don't eat cows, pigs, monkeys, dogs, or elephants. They have ethical reasons and have kept to the regime for thousands of years.
"And dedicating natural space to open forage zones is far more "sustainable" and healthy for the environment than clearcutting that same space and planting corn. "
Feedlots are where the money is. Otherwise I see your point.
You might be interested in permaculture. You disdain industrial agriculture, so you might find it interesting.
"There were always egrets stalking about in the rice paddies where I lived in Asia. They must have found something to their liking."
There were also pigeons stalking about in the parking lots where I have frequented in Los Angeles. They are still heavily stunted, mono-special environments.
"Have you ever been to India? There are some billion Hindus living there and they don't eat cows, pigs, monkeys, dogs, or elephants. They have ethical reasons and have kept to the regime for thousands of years."
Yes I have been to India. Have you? Because I loved the chicken biryani. And a crazy lobster curry that I had watching a cricket match. "For thousands of years" they were ruled by various meat-eating regimes. Have you never been in the...66% of the country that eats everything short of beef?
You are coming off as one of the biggest west coast hippies I have ever seen.
"There were also pigeons stalking about in the parking lots "
Adapt or die. Nature's cruelest law.
"Yes I have been to India. Have you?"
Mostly in Himachal Pradesh. Very vegetarian friendly. Also Nepal and Sri Lanka. The notion that man needs to eat cows to survive is nonsense.
It isn't nonsense, it's science. The may be acting as vegetarians but that isn't how we evolved. And India has a huge problem with malnutrition, especially in the northern rural areas, where vegetarianism is most prevalant. Not a very good example.
", it's science,"
People have the choice of what to eat without a scientist's stamp of approval. Humans have thrived for millions of years without it.
And India has a huge problem with malnutrition,
I've been told that's all down to government interfering with free markets. Now you're blaming vegetarians and their self decision to refrain from eating meat?
India's problems with malnutrition date from before they had a centralized government, and who told you it's the government's fault?
Humans for millions of years ate meat. You can choose to do whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that humans evolved to be omnivores. Personal choice doesn't trump biology. It is not a hard concept to understand. Our bodies evolved to be omnivorous. Because you choose not to eat meat doesn't change your biological needs. You can't suddenly develop a larger, functional cecum. If you look at our closest great ape relatives, chimpanzees and bonobos, they also are omnivores. Of the great apes, all eat animal protein to some extent, the closer to us evolutionarily, the more meat they eat.
You sound like that idiot hippie on Futurama trying to say you taught a lion to be vegetarian. Because that is exactly what you are doing, you are denying biology in favor of ideology. You're no better than a young earth fundamentalist. You sound just like one, denying the science because of your beliefs.
If your science is telling you that vegetarians are suffering for lack of meat, then your science is wrong. There are millions who are thriving on the diet. That's the evidence. You should pay more attention to the evidence and leave aside your just so stories of evolution.
Who says meat is not "sustainable?" It sure sustains me!
(Albeit, I do love edamame beans with my steak. I'm Bi-Soylent and freaky like that. ) 🙂
This.
And how come nobody makes healthy carnivorous alternatives to vegetables? Like a steak-based surrogate for carrots, or a lamb substitute for kale?
Scientists may have to root around to find a meat-based alternative to parsnips.
This and other front-burner issues to be discussed in tomorrow morning’s edition of Meat The Press!
No celebrity roast.
Because meat is delicious and Carrots suck. Notice that the soyboys goal is always to get Veg to taste like meat. It's because they know Veg sucks
Listen, if the Vegematics want more food choices, more power to them. In the meantime, we omnivores will watch BBQ Pit Boys and grill up good meat just the way we want it. Mmmmmmm.
Since vegematics are usually fine, upstanding people (except for the whiny Ken and Karen types, who are annoying AF)....I have a dessert recipe that uses avocado. I am not a huge fan of avocado, myself. I mean, it is kind of bland. How much guacamole can you really eat? Gets boring.
But I also know that avocado is an amazingly nutritious food. Seriously, it is tough to beat. Lots of fiber, vitamins and minerals. So what to do? How can I eat more avocado, despite being a committed omnivore!?
Vegematics (and omnivores) of the world, here is an avocado based chocolate mousse. Seriously good. Seriously easy.
1 avocado, ripe
1 cup dark chocolate cocoa (Hersheys is fine; upscale better)
0.33 cups 'Stevia in the Raw'
4 tablespoons of milk, almond milk, or heavy cream
0.5 teaspoons of vanilla extract
0.125 teaspoons granulated/crushed Himalayan salt
Peel/Pit avocado, cut into quarters, dump in mixing bowl
Add the other shit
Using a hand mixer, mix the F out of this, taking care to remove all lumps. Start slow.
You're done....enjoy.
As much as I would like to take credit for the recipe, I cannot. The recipe comes to you courtesy of chocolatecoveredkatie.com [what a name, and if you see her picture...what an attractive woman! Chocolate covered Katie? I say yes, please!]
It is very good, no joke. You are going to be surprised. The texture is perfect. But you really need to mix the F out of this. It is disconcerting to munch 'chocolate mousse' and encounter green/yellow 'chunks' in your mousse. See what I mean....really, really mix it. Bon Appetit!
The avocado episode from Good Eats has two fantastic recipes- one for avocado ice cream and another for avocado compound butter.
https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/good-eats/episodes/curious-yet-tasty-avocado-experiment
Another episode had Sardine-Avocado toast, and it created a flavor profile at our house that we continue to riff on. People always wonder why we have shelves stacked with sardines at our house, but they are so damn good with vinegar and avocado on toasted bread. Also great as a camping mean, since the ingredients are so easy to prepare.
Sardine and avocado...who knew? I am trying it for sure. Thx for sharing that.
Sardine, avocado and vinegar (sherry or balsamic) are the key. Everything else is fun flavoring.
Avocado’s number is a guaca-mole.
Your puns send my eyes all a'Googol!
Should all of the US troops stationed in Europe, against the US taxpayer’s will, be forced to follow socialist fads of the socialists they babysit such as no meat consumption in Mondays?
Hmmm, now there's an interesting "solution": only soldiers get meat. How many soldiers would fight well on a meatless diet? The obvious consequence is that a new category of soldier would arise, the environmental reservist, for politicians only, and the right type too of course.
Sounds like a good sci-fi plot.
The term “beefeater” referring to the King’s guard may have come about because they had access to beef or were paid in beef.
I wonder if Archduke Franz Ferdinand had Beefeaters' as guards? Since they were so drunk, it would probably explain the proverbial "rest is history."
His guards did a fair job earlier in his visit to Sarajevo. The issue was the driver taking the wrong turn, stopping to turn around and Gavrilo Princip standing a few meters away armed with a pistol.
Turns out it was the Princip that was the matter.
I guess then if Archduke Franz Ferdinand had just stayed inside and drank with the Beefeaters', had some Wine in the Afternoon and Fresh Strawberries, then Princip couldn't Take Him Out. That would have been the Right Action.
Eat more meat!
One has to ask , why is Bill Gates buying up all the farms? Why did he make such statements about eating bugs? Just what are his plans?
Don't forget: you will own nothing and be happy. You will eat bugs and be happy.
BTW, I have a freezer filled with meat, ready for the BBQ as soon as spring arrives.
P eople
E ating
T tasty
A nimals
I had around 10 packages of meat from a local old-fashioned butcher which has since gone out of business, but the basement freezer was on a circuit with something else which tripped the GFCI outlet and I didn't notice for several days. I had a small gizmo which beeps and flashes when power goes out, but it was in the house itself, not the freezer circuit. The result was a terrible soup of rotten meat, unfrozen apple juice, unfrozen pies, all sorts of stuff, six inches deep.
I now have a new gizmo, on the freezer circuit, which sends email and a text message when power goes out (the house WiFi is on a UPS).
Had a similar experience with perch fillets. It took a lot to get that smell out.
Part if me (the conspiracy theory part) thinks he is behind the lobbying for the laws that pay farm land owners to not farm. He is making bank buying the land and removing it from being used to grow food.
I'm defense of bugs - lobster, crawdads and crab are delicious.
I recently saw a vintage PETA billboard from the 90s. It was a really Old Lang Sign!
Massive new Intel fab in Ohio comes with tax incentives of up to $500,000 per job.
For Intel, the incentive, based on targeted employment and the potential revenue for this plant, would be an annual tax credit of close to $30 million per year. In present-value terms, the total incentive package is worth between $1.3 billion and $1.5 billion over 30 years. That translates into incentives of between $430,000 and $500,000 per job.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/intel-s-choice-of-ohio-for-its-20-billion-factory-shows-what-matters-at-least-as-much-as-low-taxes-and-it-costs-money/ar-AATp6vm?ocid=msedgntp
Better than to build in Taiwan I suppose.
Slleepy Joe should get his mug into the news and take credit for it like the con man did with his ridiculous and worthless Foxconn "deal".
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. Rather than follow the will of Reason’s staff, you resurrected that identity and continue to post here. A decent person would realize how abhorrent this behavior is, burn the SPB identity and return under some new handle. While that wouldn’t change your despicable appetites, it would at least respect a community’s wishes to not mix with pedophiles. But since you have no shame, the only thing I and others can do is point out your past behavior rather than converse with you.
You Alex Jones QAnon nutjobs have been discredited as full-time liars.
Let's go ahead and shit up the thread. I'll continue what you started:
You are a lying cocksucking faggot.
He is right. Anybody here at the time agrees.
What happened to your original account?
It’s really creepy for the guy that posted kiddie porn links to call someone a cock sucker.
But you are a lying cocksucker. You won't shut me down. Use the mute button, liar.
So gross.
Pervert
Perv
Further disturbing when shrike likes to use peanuts and SLOPPYPULLOUT.
Yeah, the obsession with Charlie Brown and co. is definitely one of his more disturbing traits.
He thinks Sesame Street is a dating show. He definitely wants someone to tell him how to get to Sesame Street.
I have no doubt he has peppermint Patti porn
To him, “Charlie Brown” is a euphemism.
When he first heard that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was a kids story he got very excited.
Buttplug heard that scientists had discovered the cause of pedophilia, but he didn't care because he already knew the answer:
"Sexy children."
Now look: Peanuts taught me what a Googal was when I was little and was chock-loaded with literary references and even taught the wisdom of not smoking in bed when Snoopy's house burned down, so don't let this asshole spoil a good thing.
Turn yourself in to authorities.
Here is another lying cocksucker.
Let's go. I can get 100-150 posts in before noon. You libertarian haters aren't going to chase us off so you can give Trump a 24/7 tongue bath.
I can get 100-150 posts in before noon.
And? NAMBLA records aren’t celebrated libertarians. Though you would give the pedophile apologist squirrel competition for the most times muted.
Your lies are just an attempt to silence me.
Fuck you and your beloved GOP. This site welcomes independents and libertarians. So fuck you, you lying cocksucker.
And this site tolerates sockpuppets of child porn posting pedophiles. That is incongruent with the wishes of independents and libertarians.
Then you just admitted you are a child porn posting pedophile because you have no evidence anyone else here has done so.
But you are a lying cocksucker, so there is that.
We have plenty of witnesses shrike.
Another cocksucking liar.
So everyone is a liar but you?
Fuck off, you gruesome kiddie toucher.
You lose all credibility when more than a dozen people can say they saw what you did.
Where's the original account shrike?
Heard you asked for a refund from a travel agency after your vacation to Asia minor was not what you thought it would be.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled asshole, a pervert who linked kiddie porn here and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
I will continue to advocate for Reason to turn over the post you made and account info to authorities.
You liar. You aren't wasting your time - you lying cocksucker.
You aren’t wasting your time
I hope not. It would be good for you to face a trial for what you have done.
I support your endeavor, Chumby.
I'm with you too, Chumby. This bastard has always been sickening. I do my best to ignore him without muting, but there he is for all to behold and wretch over.
We come here to talk about Liberty, Food, Drink, Humor, Deep Thoughts, and All Good Things in Life, and people like this come along to turn it into shit!
There is indeed a Libertarian "pipeline" that others have talked about in reference to the Alt-Right, but the shit is all coming from the other end and not just from the Alt-Right. It's about time we acted to re-rout it all to the treatment plant.
You aren't a libertarian. You're a Soros fan boy.
Soros fights for democracy, capitalism, freedom, and the free movement of workers
You would hate those things.
Soros cares about democracy, capitalism and freedom like a pedophile cares about kids.
His attack on the pound proved that.
Attack? you're an idiot. Americans from all over were betting the same:
There were other big winners in the currency turmoil that toppled the pound sterling, the lira and other soft European currencies and humbled the central banks of Europe. The big winners include Bruce Kovner of Caxton Corp. and Paul Tudor Jones of Jones Investments. Kovner's funds made an estimated $ 300 million, increasing assets to about $ 1.6 billion; Jones' funds were up some $ 250 million, to $ 1.4 billion in assets.
The month of wild trading and sheer excitement that wrecked the European Exchange Rate Mechanism were also good times for leading U.S. banks with big foreign exchange operations, especially Citicorp, J. P. Morgan, Chemical Banking, Bankers Trust, Chase Manhattan, First Chicago and BankAmerica. Together, in the third quarter, they netted before taxes over $ 800 million more than what they normally earn in a quarter from trading currencies.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveschaefer/2015/07/07/forbes-flashback-george-soros-british-pound-euro-ecb/?sh=6056eb436131
The Bank of England was the manipulator.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled asshole and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
"The Bank of England was the manipulator"
That's not the conclusion of your article, and is exactly like blaming a woman for being raped because she was dressed too sexy.
What Soros did was beyond unethical, which is why other firms hadn't done it before. It wasn't the Bank of England asking for it by wearing a revealing dress.
The fact that anyone could try and defend that, is proof positive your fifty-centing is sponsored by Open Society.
He blames the children.
It is amazing how dumb you are.
Democracy is spending millions in local races? Donating workers into DA offices if those DAs agree to reforms he prefers? Advocating for unequal treatment based on politics?
Capitalism like using government to enrich himself?
Lol. You are such a leftist moron.
Well, yeah. Campaign contributions are a part of democracy, dumbass.
And currency trading is a part of capitalism.
Hmm. Capitalism through 3.5T in government spending.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/oct/5/george-soros-bankrolling-far-left-groups-harassing
You also ignored the staffing offices with people he pays if the offices do as he asks?
And no, buying elections is not democracy. I am for liberty of speech, but also recognize attempts to influence heavily an election. Soros isn't seeking what everyone wants, he is seeking what he wants moron.
Soros causing strife in India to undo their government.
https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/how-george-soros-fund-open-society-foundation-anti-india-narrative-media-ngos/
And also shrike, paying activists to push a message isn't convincing people to advocate freely. Soros has an entire industry of paid activists. I think you may actually be one of those due to your own ignorance on basically every topic and reliance on easily debunked talking points.
Soros may well be stupid enough to pay suck a lying pile of lefty shit.
Oh he's definitely an Open Societies paid shill.
Why would they call you leftist shrike...
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/272241047/soros-stocks-his-war-chest-for-democrats-ahead-of-midterms
Yeah, the GOP is openly attacking democracy and voting rights.
Lol. Why would they call you a leftist indeed.
Democrats are literally suing to keep candidates off ballots idiot.
Soros seeking censorship. Talk about freedom and democracy!
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/08/26/soros-role-in-social-media-censorship-revealed-in-leaked-document/
What voting rights?
So you like Nazis AND little kids. Kill your self.
"I can get 100-150 posts in before noon."
Great! Here are some suggested topics:
Spittin' tobaccy is literally the only item whose price has increased
All-caps toilet humor dismissal of MSM stories that make Biden look bad ("SLOPPY PULLOUT!")
Totally unprovoked reference to Stormy Daniels and / or Drumpf's genitalia
Intelligence update from your always reliable sources
Go!
Now that you bring up Stormy her scummy lawyer was just convicted yesterday of stealing from her. Justice once anyway,
He's scummy now that he's convicted of bilking her and Nike, but three years ago you were holding him as a beacon of light and truth.
Bet I can find you praising avenetti when all the leftists like you were cheering him on.
They don’t remember him anymore.
Pluggo the pugnacious pathological pedophilic pederast price prognosticator portends petroleum price plummets.
Your as libritarian as Joe Biden, and you have the same sexual preferences too.
I don't care one lick whether people eat more meat or less meat, raw meat, fake meat, or no meat at all. I'm highly skeptical of dietary, animal-rights, and environmental arguments against eating meat. I believe government policies should neither promote nor hinder eating meat.
Separation of Meat and State! Amen! I love it! (And no, it doesn't have to be enumerated in the U.S. Constitution to exist. Amendments 9, 10 , and 14 of The Bill of Rights cover everything not enumerated on either Individual Rights or restrictions on government power.)
I've consistently argued that people should be free to make their own food choices. If I'm evangelical in any way, it's that I preach this: eat what you want.
Well, if you're really Evangelical about it, you'd have to say: "Eat what you want OR DIE AND GO TO HELL!" Ooooh! Choices! Choices! 😉
I think it is separation of church and steak.
Well done puns like this are increasingly rare!
I wanted to be ecumenical to both all houses of worship/non-worship and all kinds of meat.
I agree with your constitutional interpretation. But just the same, there's an Article V push going on and meat ought to be added to the agenda.
Amendment XXVIII
1. The right to raise and slaughter animals for their meat, to consume the product, and to engage in commerce in the product, shall not be infringed by the United States or any state.
2. Neither the United States nor any state may deny meat equal status with any other food under the law.
"More choice can decrease meat consumption with coercion of regressive taxation."
Why is this the business of anyone other than the person eating something?
Remember when Hummers were a thing? And I’m not talking about Clinton White House interns. Demonizing Humvees and their low furl economy wasn’t about saving the planet, it was about jealousy because the squawkers couldn’t afford something that nice.
The original hummers weren't very nice, but they were cool.
Those new electric ones look cool.
“Why is this the business of anyone other than the person eating something?”
This. To put it another way, “Where’s the beef?”
The Vegan Mayor of New York, who physically resembles the Grinch, is implementing meat free Fridays in schools.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=hidden&hsimp=yhs-epic&p=eric%20adams%20vegan%20food
How Catholic of them. Remember when a significant minority of the world's population went without meat one day a week without government intervention?
Church and State, together at last.
Wasn't that back when monasteries enjoyed a fish-farming monopoly, and abbots could rebrand as fish anything that didn't breathe air?
Fetal veal and rabbit Friday beats Meatless Monday any day of the week.
Good point.
But I'm hijacking your comment to be pedantic for a moment.
The moderns changed the definition of "fish", not the medieval church. It always used to just mean an aquatic animal. Any animal that lived primarily in the water was a fish.
Once Linnaean taxonomy was invented it gave us our modern definition of aquatic, craniate, gill-bearing animals that lack limbs with digits. But this has only been the case for the last few hundred years.
That's why when the Catholic church would argue whether beavers and geese were fish or not, they weren't taking about fins and gills, but whether the animal spent more time in the water than out.
How about just saving your 10-30 % tithe and use it to invest in your own aquaculture, as well as just get your meat on, whether in or out of water, without the Catholic Church's nosy input?
And despite Linneus giving us Taxonomy, jack-legged Protestant preachers still say Jonah was swallowed by "a big fish" not a mammal.
It was called The Dark Ages and it could have been from lack of grain to feed animals as well. What's more, since The Vatican is a temporal power, that edict isn't so government-free.
And who can argue that deregulation "artificially" lowers prices and keep a straight face?
Do they seriously think that regulation should be the default?
You know who else had a thing against meat consumption?
People with a gag reflex?
(Also hitler)
Lennekin is well past the nut cutlet stage, and only a few steps short of serving vegan haggis on Burns Night and ordering mushrooms on toast at the Beefsteak Club.
Joe Biden school menu:
Vegan lunch .99 cents
Meat lunch 19.99
C'mon, Man. No bugs?
Any plan that offers more choice and does not seek to tax or ban something is devoid of virtue signal, and so has no value to progressives.
Now back to the brisket I’m smoking.
How big are the rolling papers for a brisket? And JOB or Zig-Zag?
ZigZag all the way!
I agree with your premise that people should eat what they want, and should not eat what they don't want. But please don't insult our intelligence (and cast a pall over the whole article) by quoting a meat industry shill as if they are an unbiased nutritionist. Carrie Ruxton has been caught out for this kind of thing more than once, as she shills for a variety of industry groups whilst also sitting on supposedly independent food standards boards. Here it was meat, in another case, it was chocolate. Surely you can make your point without quoting her bought-and-paid-for nonsense.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17455283.food-standards-board-member-conflict-interest-row-processed-meat/
I can't help but be unsurprized with the idea that, if you take away people's ability to choose meat, they'll eat less meat.
It is the basic leftist mantra--'we want to take away all choices but that which we mandate.'
I certainly agree that giving people better choices will be more productive in reducing meat consumption. I think there is also an age component. I know that as I get older, I tend to eat less meat. My food palette is larger now and as a result meat is less important.
You don't get it.
Taxation is the GOAL, meat consumption is only the cover story.