FOSTA Is Unconstitutional, Argue Sexual Freedom Advocates and First Amendment Lawyers in New Motion

Plus: People have doubts about democracy, Washington state sues Juul, and more...

The Woodhull Freedom Foundation is suing (again) to get FOSTA ruled unconstitutional. FOSTA—the 2018 "human trafficking" law making it a federal crime to host digital content that promotes prostitution—violates the First and Fifth Amendments, says Woodhull's motion for summary judgment, filed in federal court on August 31. It also takes aim at the law's retroactive scope—FOSTA says you can be punished for violating it even before the law went into effect.

The suit comes after a federal district court dismissed an earlier filing against FOSTA, brought by Woodhull—a nonprofit dedicated "to affirm[ing] and protect[ing] sexual freedom as a fundamental human right"—and fellow plaintiffs The Internet Archive, Human Rights Watch, Eric Koszyk, and Alex Andrews. In January, a federal appeals court reversed the decision and sent the case back to the district court.

You can find their full motion for summary judgment here (and find previous court filings here). "Plaintiffs request a declaratory ruling that FOSTA is unconstitutional and a permanent injunction against its enforcement and application," the motion states. They claim that "FOSTA is unconstitutionally vague and overbroad, is a content-based statute that cannot satisfy strict scrutiny, and lacks the necessary scienter requirements to be constitutional" (scienter refers to a person's intent when doing something that the government claims is criminal). "And it explicitly is meant to have retroactive reach in both its criminal and civil applications."

Meanwhile, the SAFE SEX Workers Study Act, introduced by Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.) to pave the way for FOSTA's dismantling, has gone nowhere since its introduction last December. Several civil lawsuits—two against Craigslist and one against Mailchimp—are invoking FOSTA in order to accuse these tech companies of being legally liable for "sex trafficking."

Woodhull and the other plaintiffs are represented by Lawrence G. Walters of the Walters Law Group, Bob Corn-Revere of Davis Wright Tremaine, and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).

---

FREE MINDS

Doubts about democracy. A new Pew Research Center poll of Americans finds that "among the public overall, 68% say it is very important for the country that people are free to peacefully protest, down from 74% two years ago. In this case, the decline has come entirely among Republicans," Pew notes.

The poll was conducted from July 27 through August 2 and consisted of 11,001 U.S. adults.

A majority of those surveyed (62 percent) agreed "that significant changes are needed in the fundamental design and structure of American government to make it work for current times." Pew points out that "while views among the public overall have changed little since 2018, Democrats and Republicans have moved further apart in their opinions. Currently, 79% of Democrats say significant changes in the structure of government are needed, compared with 41% of Republicans."

---

FREE MARKETS

(Juul ad from 2015 via Washington AG website)

Washington state files consumer protection lawsuit against Juul. Taking a page from the anti-tobacco playbook, the attorney general of Washington state is accusing vaping company Juul of "designing and marketing its products to appeal to underage consumers and deceiving consumers about the addictiveness of its product." Here's the kind of laughable claims the state is making to back up this assertion: "JUUL's advertising used sharp patterns, bright colors and young models."

---

QUICK HITS

https://twitter.com/PatrickCToomey/status/1301211138936446977

• "In 2013, my amendment to stop the NSA's unconstitutional metadata surveillance program was narrowly defeated," noted Rep. Justin Amash (L–Mich.) on Twitter. "Multiple Congresses, Obama, and Trump renewed the program until it finally lapsed this year. Today, the 9th Circuit ruled the program illegal."

• Trump is ordering federal agencies to report to the White House Office of Management and Budget how they can move to redirect federal funds away from what Trump calls "lawless" cities: New York City, Portland, Seattle, and Washington, D.C.

President Trump signed a memo today to restrict federal $ from going to "anarchist jurisdictions" - the memo cites Seattle, Portland, NYC & D.C.

Per the memo, below is how DOJ is supposed to determine what the "anarchist jurisdictions" are: pic.twitter.com/kJXVvehEMm

— Jeff Stein (@JStein_WaPo) September 3, 2020

• D.C. police fatally shot a young black man in the back as he was running away from them. Deon Kay had just turned 18, according to his family. Police say they were called to the area "to investigate a man with a gun" and "upon arrival, officers encountered individuals in and around a vehicle." When two of the men, including Kay, saw police and tried to leave the scene, the cops pursued and shot at them, killing Kay.

This distraught family earlier confirmed to The Post that the victim was Deon Kay, who just turned 18.

"They took my baby, they just took my baby from me," said his mother, Natasha. "I need my son back, I want my son back." pic.twitter.com/30d0HKs6hy

— Michael Brice-Saddler (@TheArtist_MBS) September 3, 2020

• Mike Masnick of Techdirt checks in on some of the public comments to the Federal Communications Commission about Section 230; start here:

https://twitter.com/mmasnick/status/1301217014770475008

• Social unrest may not be helping President Donald Trump as much as his folks think it will:

The head-turning number in this new Fox poll: Taken entirely after Kenosha unrest, it has Trump down 5 points in Wisconsin on "policing and criminal justice." https://t.co/TNTGHqFIj5 pic.twitter.com/cUH94kbkRY

— David Weigel (@daveweigel) September 2, 2020

Comments

[Ra's al Gore]

Autopsies can uphold white supremacy
They have long provided scientific and medical excuses for white killings of nonwhite people
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/03/autopsies-can-uphold-white-supremacy/

[Ra's al Gore]

New 'Absolutely Shocking' Evidence Presented in the George Floyd Case
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/09/02/new-evidence-in-the-george-floyd-case-that-could-change-everything-n2575428

"From coast-to-coast everyone, absolutely outraged, especially by that fact, the knee on the neck. Well, guess what folks, take a look at what you're looking at right here. That is from the police training manual," attorney and host Vinnie Politan said. "Where this all comes from is from a motion to dismiss. A motion to dismiss that was filed by Derek Chauvin's attorneys saying that the knee on the neck is part of his training as a Minneapolis police officer. And there we see it in the manual on the left and on the right is what we all have seen in the video of Officer Chauvin. So, is this a game-changer?"

"This one is absolutely shocking. I mean, this is what the whole story is about. This is what outraged millions and millions of people, this is what caused the protests. It was the knee on the neck...and now the defense is saying dismiss the charges because the knee on the neck is right there in the police training manual," he continued.

So why did Chauvin continue holding his knee on Floyd's neck after he became unresponsive?

"There comes a point where everyone is telling him, 'Look, he's not responding anymore.' ... I want our viewers to get familiar with a very important word here, it's called "excited delirium." ... That's what he's going to use to explain why when [Floyd] was no longer responsive, he continued with the knee on the neck because that, when you talk about excited delirium, it's about people who use drugs, which they're going to claim they saw him using, that's why they're talking about the tablet on the tongue, bizarre behavior. We saw that, but eventually, it gets to something that's called superhuman strength. Oftentimes people in that position, they show superhuman strength and that picture shows how you are supposed to restrain people when you are afraid for excited delirium," Attorney Michael Ayala added. "This is a game-changer...it's going to be tough to overcome this training instruction picture that shows exactly how [Chauvin] was doing it by the book."

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

superhuman strength

Was Floyd, DC or Marvel?

[perlchpr]

Judging by the success of his character in terms of nationwide chatter, Marvel.

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[JesseAz]

The stronger defense is the OD levels of fentanyl and the lungs that weighed 3x normal at autopsy. Liquid in the lungs is what Fentanyl does during an OD. Combine that with the D.A. refusing yo release it until a week ago, and you misconduct as well.

[soldiermedic76]

Along with this new evidence it goes a long ways to establishing reasonable doubt. The officer was wrong is holding him as long as he did, and should have been convicted of a lesser charge but the DA decided to make a political point and now the officers will most likely walk. Once again putting politics ahead of justice bites them in the ass.

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

the DA decided to make a political point and now the officers will most likely walk.

And when that happens the last few months will look like a warmup to the real riots.

[soldiermedic76]

Yeah. This trend dates back to at least 1991. I've seen multiple documentaries on the Rodney King video and almost all agree that one of the reasons for all the anger was the media's selective editing of the video on the DA deciding to overcharge to placate the crowd, incised by an edited video.

[soldiermedic76]

The longer video puts the incident into more context and while the officers actions were reprehensible they weren't as depraved as the DA tried to make them out to be.

[soldiermedic76]

National Geographic did a fairly good breakdown on it. Can't remember the series title but they also did a good job debunking myths about Columbine, Waco and Ruby Ridge.

[soldiermedic76]

And their shows about Ruby Ridge and Waco make the feds look even more evil and incompetent.

[perlchpr]

That's impressive. I didn't know it was possible.

[Muzzled Woodchipper]

That would be an interesting tidbit to see.

The PBS documentary on RR hammered home that the PNW, and Idaho in particular, were WHITE SUPREMACIST hotspots, and that he was racist by proxy.

It had exactly 1 line saying he wasn’t part of that movement, with 30 minutes on each side painting him as guilty by association.

[soldiermedic76]

Yeah a hotspot. There as was exactly 25 people at its height and usually less than a dozen, that lived on the Aryan Nations compound. I grew up there and i only saw one of those idiots in 18 years actually come into town. But the media uses that to describe it as a hotspot.

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[soldiermedic76]

And they do a good job explaining how the lack of police presence and pull backs allowed the riots to get out of control. Just like we see in Portland today and Kenosha.

[Gray_Jay]

There aren't a lot of good options trying to subdue a suspect under of the influence of an analgesic like PCP, as King was. How prevalent were Tasers in 1992? OC spray wouldn't do a damn thing to him. Choking him out might've worked. Might not have too.

Frankly, shooting the guy would have been a lot less of a problem for everyone, though articulating a deadly threat might have been challenging.

[soldiermedic76]

I think the force at the end was excessive, however, it was not nearly as bad as the media portrayed it. I also think discipline was warranted but the DA overcharged. And I blame the training, or lack thereof, and King was as much at fault for it initially as anyone. That is why the jury acquitted.

[fdog50]

Maybe not. Trial is set for March of 2021. If there is an acquittal or conviction of misdemeanors or some very minor charges, it may still be too cold for a full scale riot.

[OneSimpleLesson]

Big if true.
Better buckle down for more mostly peaceful protests.

[Illocust]

Being in the training manual would undermine the entire prosecution. A reasonable person in that situation would believe their training manual has not directed them to unwittingly kill someone. They're listening to the "experts", which undermines negligent homicide.

[fdog50]

If the officers were following the procedures for which they were trained, then they could all be acquitted of all charges. That outcome may be better for the surviving family members, because if they followed the department's procedure, and that procedure can be shown to be wrong or harmful, then it should lead to a large payout in a civil suit against the city of Minneapolis.

[BillyG]

I always find it disturbing that police training used to justify constitutional violations and homicide. Last I checked, training did not supersede the law or the constitution. Additionally, poor training...of those who are supposed to be "trained professionals" who we're supposed to leave everything to....also seems a poor excuse for poor behavior.

Bring them to trial.

[soldiermedic76]

Change the training then. In every profession, your actions are judged by your training and professional standards. If this is per their training, the charges are disprovable, as the charge requires the DA to prove that the actions were malicious and contrary to what a reasonable person would do. By reasonable person the courts generally mean a person of similar training, following similar regulations. Yes, the training of police needs to change drastically. And yes, the actions are reprehensible by most people's standards, but the problem is poor training. It's amazing to me that a cook in the military, or a truck driver in the military has longer training than most police academies (and those MOS are what you end up doing when you can't even pass infantry school). And don't give me the bullshit about they get a year on the job training, because so does the military, but they expect your training to be adequate enough that you can at least basically do your job to a certain level of proficiency so that your unit training just knocks off the raw corners and that you aren't a total danger to everyone else.

[soldiermedic76]

People keep arguing that Police Academic shouldn't be like basic and AIT. I argue no they don't need combat tactics, but the idea of 10 weeks of learning basic skills under highly stressful training, and then 4 or more weeks of advanced training in skills would actually make police better. And also spend more time learning to shoot under stress and more emphasis on situational awareness, hand to hand skills, and physical fitness would drastically reduce these incidents. And professionalism and teamwork.

[Gray_Jay]

Then you'd have a police force that looks like the rest of combat arms, and we can't have that.

[soldiermedic76]

Notice I said don't train them in combat tactics. And most combat arms soldiers are more professional and disciplined than a lot of police. You adapt the training to police tactics. How to disarm assailants, how to conduct searches, extensive training on civil and criminal law and due process. Training on sizing up a situation and decision making during perceived danger. Traffic stop safety. Ethics.
And I am sorry if I missed the sarcasm, which I think I may have after rereading your statement.

[soldiermedic76]

Crowd control to avoid riots and riot control if the other tactics don't work. De-escalation. Mental health first aid and CPR and QPR training. Identifying mental health issues and dealing with psychotic breaks.

[Gray_Jay]

It is silly that troops patrolling either Afghanistan or Iraq had tighter RoEs than do many cops, but that's the situation we had. In large part because we could trust the troops to not blindly do sympathetic fire, or light up anyone with a weapon---though stay away from troop convoys while driving, right?

For the rest of the commentariat, combat arms---versus those that support combat arms, which are the other 4/5th of the Army---are nearly exclusively male, and usually white, with some Hispanics and a smattering of blacks. It's not where you look for diversity.

LOL at Oliver Stone, speaking of Hollywood myths.

[soldiermedic76]

And the more technical field like medical are dominated by whites and Hispanics with a smattering of Asians. Transportation Corp, cooks, quartermaster tend to be heavier on minority representation.

[soldiermedic76]

Yeah but it predates Stone. There is documented cases of reporters deliberately asking white combat troops to get out of frame so only black troops were shown (I think Hamburger Hill had a scene that references this). While a lot of blacks did serve in Vietnam, the majority were cooks, transportation Corp and other non-technical combat service support roles. The majority of casualties were white as was the majority of the combat arms. If Hollywood really wants to represent an ethnicity that has constantly been overrepresented in combat arms compared to their percentage of the US population, they would focus on American Indians, but that would go against their narrative as in just about every conflict the majority of American Indians have been volunteers (actually, even during the height of the Vietnam war, volunteers outnumbered draftees serving in Vietnam and the combat arms).

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[BillyG]

If this is per their training, the charges are disprovable, as the charge requires the DA to prove that the actions were malicious and contrary to what a reasonable person would do. By reasonable person the courts generally mean a person of similar training, following similar regulations.

Strange thing. Civilians aren't judges this way. We're judged on whether or not we violated the law. What a person of similar training would do doesn't factor into it. Strange, isn't it, how the effect of this is Cops get away with behavior that would get Civilians 25 to life.

[soldiermedic76]

Actually we are. A nurse or EMT is judged based upon professional standards. As are doctors. Firefighters, the same. Pilots, yes the same. Veterinarians, also the same. Engineers, the same. It is a matter of being judged based upon progressional standards in a progressional situation. You could cause harm when performing CPR incorrectly and not face charges for it. Me or a trained EMT however could face charges, as we have the training to do it correctly. This is fairly standard.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

Are Arizona and Wisonsin retarded? No seriously. Wtf?

FOSTA. Need even a 'good job' for Trump on this one?

[Echo Chamber]

The resistance is as likely to give Trump a 'good job' as he is to admit that he's ever made a mistake.

[Formerly FreeRadical]

WaPo is behind a paywall for me. Care to post most of it here?

[BillyG]

Use "incognito" mode and you'll get past the paywall.

[Roberta]

Try downloading, cutting out the header, and deleting all occurrences of "script".

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Any media outlet that describes racism as "white supremacy" should be ignored out of hand.

[Muzzled Woodchipper]

THIS!

The rhetoric has once again been turned to 11.

White supremacy is not anywhere close to being a real thing outside of small isolated groups.

And even those people don’t speak of it in public.

Stating that anything is “white supremacy” as fact is nothing but ether.

[BillyG]

And this isn't even in their Opinion Section. What was that about Democrats claiming to be the part of science?

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[loveconstitution1789]

FOSTA Is Unconstitutional, Argue Sexual Freedom Advocates and First Amendment Lawyers in New Motion

Funny how unreason has never called the Controlled Substances Act unconstitutional.

or the Social Security Act.
or ObamaCare....

Add in whores though...it's "unconstitutional".

[Overt]

Reason is not calling anything unconstitutional here. ENB is reporting what the lawyers are claiming.

[loveconstitution1789]

Definitely. I was just pointing out that unreason is not in the habit of printing anything where someone is calling something unconstitutional.

As you say, unreason is definitely not advocating the Nanny State made a mistake with a law that is so illegal that it literally violates the Constitution.

[Overt]

Were you born in 2016? Reason has printed the arguments of various groups calling many various laws unconstitutional. You don't see those specific three laws being called unconstitutional because they have been ruled constitutional. SCOTUS has ruled that the Drug War and SS are constitutional last century, so there are no lawyers trying to make that case today for them to report on.

Nevertheless, Reason is constantly on record condemning the Drug War and Social Security and Government Funded Healthcare, based on freedoms (since constitutionality has been settled). And they regularly point out that other laws or actions of officials violate the first amendment, and second amendment. Your complaint isn't just wrong, it is completely bizarre.

[Overt]

Hell- just do a search on google for site:reason.com unconstitutional, and you will see scores of articles from reason reporting on others claiming something is unconstitutional, as well as the article author offering their opinion of that fact. They do this for all sorts of things including:

State bans on worship during the pandemic
Several of Trump's executive orders
Hate speech laws
Fantasy Sports restrictions
etc.

If you really want the meat of Constitutionality, the authors on Volokh will give you more to sink your teeth into because american constitutional law is their thing. The authors on Hit N Run are going to tell you what other lawyers are saying or talk about basic freedoms.

[loveconstitution1789]

See, that my point.

Unreason just regurgitates nonsense from hacks who dont even know what laws are actually constitutional and why.

Even the Prohibitionists knew that you needed a constitutional amendment to ban a product (alcohol) or service.

You can ban drugs without a constitutional amendment. Its basic constitutional law.
The federal government nor states have plenary powers. The federal government has the power to regulate interstate commerce, not ban it. Drugs that you grow yourself and dont take out of state do not fall under the power of the federal government.

Any judge who says otherwise does not know how our system works at its basic level and should be immediately impeached.

[soldiermedic76]

You're pretty far off on this one. Reason has longed argued against the Constitutionality of the Controlled Substance Act, and the ACA and Social Security. Less so recently but they castigated Roberts for his penaltax ruling.

[loveconstitution1789]

Find a citation. Look at the propaganda again. unreason hacks are crafty but they never actually call the unconstitutional law what they are. Illegal and void laws. In other words, no law at all.

unreason talks shit about laws and hem haws around without ever saying how most laws on the books should not be followed because they are literally not constitutional laws.

Check out the Federalist blog where they actually call laws unconsitutional. Yu can see the difference.

[The White Knight]

Here’s a Reason article by Jacob Sullum where Obamacare is literally called unconstitutional in the title:

https://reason.com/2019/12/25/now-that-its-toothless-obamacares-individual-mandate-is-unconstitutional/

[loveconstitution1789]

No you little liar. Sullum repeats someone else saying that the individual mandate is unconstitutional because obamacare is toothless.

Try again to find a single unreason propaganda story where any hack says that obamacare was always unconstitutional from day 1. No matter what the hacks in the SCOTUS said.

[Ra's al Gore]

Cockburn looted the looting book
Why subscribe to racist ideas like ‘you should pay for things that you want’?
https://spectator.us/cockburn-looting-book-vicky-osterweil/

Dear Sir or Madam,

We at The Spectator have successfully pirated a copy of In Defense of Looting from the internet. Beats paying for it! We’d like your permission to republish the entire book on our website free of charge as an easily downloadable or shareable PDF file — in order to spread the message far and wide. Assume that’s fine? Please let us know if not.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1301225509745909760
Here's from the actual book "In Defense of Looting": The destruction and looting of Jewish and Korean immigrant-owned stores is justified by the author because Jews and Koreans are "the face of capital."

[Earth Skeptic]

Damn those people who believe in work!

[soldiermedic76]

Once again the anti-Semitism of the left fears it's ugly head. If a right winger had written this trope, it would be being denounced from the rooftops. Also, there has been minimal coverage of Joy Reid being accused of Islamophobia.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

It's even more perverse if you understand the history of Jewish people and property ownership. Part of the reason there's a stereotype of Jewish people being money grubbers is because for a long time in a lot of places they were prohibited from owning real property, so they engaged in banking/finance instead.

And now we've come full circle, where it's once again OK to steal the Jewish guy's stuff.

[soldiermedic76]

Yes, and the catholic church basically forbid lending and charging interest (labeling it usury), so about the only people you could borrow from were the Jewish bankers and guess who every noble and yeoman owed money too as a result? The Knights Templars were also allowed a papal bull to charge interest right up until Phillip II owed them to much money and he convinced the Catholic Church to disband them and charge them with heresy.
The English Crown periodically banned Jews and also borrowed heavily to fund their wars. And then they would ban them again when the bill came due.

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

The destruction and looting of Jewish and Korean immigrant-owned stores is justified by the author because Jews and Koreans are “the face of capital.”

Probably sounded better in the original German.

[Formerly FreeRadical]

Lol!

[Ron]

nothing racist about singling out races for commonality....Oh wait that is the definition of racism

[OneSimpleLesson]

Unfortunately, Spectator wants my money in order to see it...

[Anomalous]

Cockburn? Is that another name for gonorrhea?

[Don't look at me!]

Failed sunblock at the nude beach.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

New KFC flavor?

[SIV]

Libertarian Party VP Candidate Endorses Joe Biden For President

[loveconstitution1789]

The LP has a bunch of Democrat, Anarchist, and RINO saboteurs.

America can't have a new political party fill the void left by the implosion of the Democrat Party and have their platform be about tiny and limited government.

WHAT WILL ALL THE BUREAUCRATS AND LOBBYISTS DO FOR WORK?

[De Oppresso Liber]

You are nutty. First of all, why would a rino sabotage libertarians? Republicans aren't libertarians, let alone rinos. That's right, you and the rest of the trump personality cult do not belong here.

Second of all, Democrat implosion? Buddy, did you miss 2018? Have you not checked the demographic trends versus GOP voter demographics? The gop is the party with s time limit. A lot of you can feel it. Part of the reason so many of you want to call yourselves libertarian, when you clearly are not.

[Nardz]

So you've been asleep for the 4 year D temper tantrum and 2020 psychotic breakdown

[R52]

"you and the rest of the trump personality cult do not belong here."

super libertarian

[Don't look at me!]

Up next: separate but equal.

[BYODB]

I mean, that is the trajectory we're on. We're at a place now where 'safe spaces' are essentially a modern day 'separate but equal' doctrine. Add in 'cultural appropriation' and basically we're right back where we started.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The amount of cope in this post is off the charts.

[soldiermedic76]

DoL have you seen the trends of 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanics? Also, Trump's support among minorities is drastically greater than in 2016. The demographic trends argument is an argument that demographics are static not kinetic and it's pretty racist as well.

[BillyG]

and it’s pretty racist as well

He's a Democrat, what do you expect?

[JesseAz]

My favorite dol post was him crying about not getting PPP funds from Trump and Co for his fake business. Then deriding PPP a week later.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I never cried about PPP. I corrected you, who insisted PPP was a major boon for small business and Trump the savior was personally saving America's business owners. You, with no knowledge of business ownership, finance, or honesty insisted that only Vox news was writing about the limitations and corruption of the PPP.

And once again, Jesse the coward bitch boy, if you don't think I am who I say I am, then you should take me up on my wager, win some money and see me off of these boards forever. Too bad you are a dishonest coward.

[soldiermedic76]

Yeah okay. Yes and I totally expect Kirkland to take me up on my offer to bring it on when he threatens me.

[Echo Chamber]

The anarchist Libertarian Party VP candidate endorses Biden? Makes sense

[soldiermedic76]

Gee, deja vu.

[The White Knight]

One of the reasons I left the Libertarian Party. They are simply not serious about running to win, which is the primary function of a political party.

[JesseAz]

that and the whole liberty thing. Or do you still want people who throw parties to buy generators? Or arrest a kid for illegally carrying in a state he was allowed to carry in because some media personality told you the wrong laws and you were too lazy to investigate media claims on your own? Or...

[The White Knight]

Yawn. Your daily schtick of misrepresenting things I've said is boring.

[Radionic]

So when will he start doing that?

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

The "Republicans and Independents for Biden" group is headed by former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman — who already endorsed Biden at the Democratic National Convention — and its members include former Massachusetts Gov. William Weld and, more surprisingly, former two-term Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R)

[Emphasis added] Weld isn't on the ticket this year. I don't even know the name of the LP's VP candidate this time around, which is probably fine. And really, who gives a shit about Bill Weld anymore? He's not even a Libertarian at this point, he's switched back the R's.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Cohen or Weld? Didn't see a Cohen endorsement. And its been clear to all Bill Weld is not a libertarian (not even close) except for the assholes who put him on the ticket last go around.

[soldiermedic76]

Cohen's barely a Libertarian and was put on the ticket to placate left Libertarians.

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

Weld. He's desperately trying to be relevant.

[soldiermedic76]

And Amash is following in his footsteps. And all the never Trumpers like Kasich.

[soldiermedic76]

Hell even FNC ignores Kasich anymore. He used to be a regular guest host on a number of shows.

[loveconstitution1789]

Facebook threatens to block Australians from sharing news in battle over landmark media law

I will take unreason's silence on this big issue as agreement with Australia's Socialist scheme to use FB revenue to fund Socialist Propagandists in Australia.

[Ra's al Gore]

Pregnant Australian mom arrested for Facebook post planning lockdown protest
https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/pregnant-mom-arrested-for-facebook-post-planning-lockdown-protest/

A pregnant Australian mom was handcuffed and hauled away by cops in front of her children for planning a lockdown protest online, according to video footage and a report.

Police arrested Zoe Buhler, 28, for incitement at her home near Melbourne after she created a “Freedom Day” protest event on Facebook and urged people to come, according to the the Guardian.

“I have no idea why you guys are doing this,” the distressed mother can be heard telling officers in a Facebook Live video. “My two kids are here. I have an ultrasound in an hour. I’m happy to delete the post.”

...But the cops wouldn’t budge. “You’ve already committed the offense,” one of the officers said.

The footage quickly went viral, with Liberal party politician Craig Kelly declaring, “This is what you’d expect to see in Nazi Germany.”

Victoria police defended the arrest in a statement saying the planned protest was a “public health risk. “

“Any gathering of this nature is in blatant breach of the chief health officer’s directions and puts Victorian lives at risk,” the statement read, according to the Guardian.

[Troglodyte Rex]

That's what happens when you don't have a guaranteed freedom of speech.

[MikeP2]

or a right to bear arms to secure the freedom of speech

[Don't look at me!]

Thought crime.

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

Australia's been all downhill since they started letting non-convicts in.

[Griffin3]

If the Australian's don't have an even bigger, noisier protest on the originally planned day (September 5), and don't relent until charges against her are dropped, then ... they don't deserve to be called Aussies.

Streisand Effect, bitches!

[The White Knight]

“ I will take unreason’s silence...”

Of course, you will. The ancient art of interpreting Reason’s silence is right up there with reading chicken bones.

[loveconstitution1789]

Chicken bones sounds like what unreason is using to come up with propaganda lies.

unreason has been circling the toilet for years now.

[Ra's al Gore]

Yea, no threat of death camps from the left:

University Lesson: ‘If a Few of the Worst Republican Politicians Were Assassinated, it Wouldn’t Be the End of the World’
https://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2020/09/01/university-lesson-if-a-few-of-the-worst-republican-politicians-were-assassinated-it-wouldnt-be-the-end-of-the-world-n2575447

[Ra's al Gore]

Extinction Rebellion Co-Founder: MPs, Big Business Owners, govt officials ‘should have a bullet through their heads’ for being ‘culpable for climate catastrophe’
https://www.climatedepot.com/2020/09/02/extinction-rebellion-co-founder-mps-big-business-owners-govt-officials-should-have-a-bullet-through-their-heads-in-for-being-culpable-for-climate-catastrophe/

[Ra's al Gore]

Gov. Cuomo: Trump had ‘better have an army’ to protect him if he comes to NYC
https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/cuomo-trump-better-have-an-army-to-protect-him-if-he-comes-to-nyc/

[Illocust]

I know he's talking big because Trump is threatening his cities budget, but statement like that really don't help the image that he can't prevent mobs from running rampant.

[Longtobefree]

Uh, Governor, President Trump DOES have an Army.
And the authority to take away your National Guard.
How many State Police are going to take on the 101st?

[Tom Bombadil]

I predict the State Police will switch sides when it counts. Cuomo commands no loyalty.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

I predict that they side with whomever keeps the pension funded.

[Nardz]

The murder of Aaron "Jay" Danielson was a coordinated hit, with the participation of at least 2 and up to 6 or 7 conspirators.
http://twitter.com/Jimsung2K/status/1301206403885998086?s=19

[The White Knight]

Like how yesterday John was promoting his pet theory that the Portland police are purposely letting Danielson’s killer go, when the truth is he has gone into hiding and they are trying to find him.

[JesseAz]

Or your pet theory Rittenhouse illegally transported a weapon of war across state lines and illegally open carried?

[The White Knight]

He didn't carry anything across state lines. His friend from Illinois lent him a rifle.

It was illegal. You bluffed about researching relevant laws, but I actually have: (a) he couldn't possibly have a concealed carry permit, because Illinois law would not allow someone his age to have one; (b) he is not allow to open carry in Wisconsin at 17 years of age; (c) the hunting exception doesn't apply because he wasn't hunting (duh); (d) if he were hunting (which he wasn't), he was violating hunting regulations about proximity to buildings.

Note how Illinois law is relevant (point a), even though you bluffed and said it isn't.

[soldiermedic76]

Yes but point A is a criminal charge against the person who lent him the gun not against him. As for the hunting exception, still not convinced that your interpretation is correct. And even under that, it is a misdemeanor and doesn't warrant 1st degree murder. Yes, Jesse is overstating and misrepresenting your argument but I also think your argument is flawed.

[soldiermedic76]

And just to clarify I don't mean to imply that you are stating that the weapons charges are enough to warrant 1st degree murder.

[The White Knight]

Thanks, I’m not. I don’t believe there is any way a murder charge (at least not first degree murder) could apply here. Maybe some charge like manslaughter or endangerment.

I don’t know what Wisconsin laws mighty apply. And I have no desire to be an armchair lawyer. Just calling JesseAz’s bluff when he tried to make it sound like he had actually gone off and studied Wisconsin law to determine the Rittenhouse did not violate any Wisconsin or Illinois gun laws.

This all started when I repeated that a news article I read said Rittenhouse was illegally carrying. I was not endorsing that conclusion but giving an example of why we should wait for new facts to come out. But JesseAz pounced on it and tried to make it “my” position.

[The White Knight]

It is funny how hard JesseAz tried to twist what I originally said, because the two major points I actually made were:
a) I felt sorry for Rittenhouse
b) it’s best to wait to get all the facts because stories like this are always misreported at first

[loveconstitution1789]

All weapon control laws are unconstitutional. As in they should be ignored because they are not laws.

[loveconstitution1789]

D.C. Court Endorses Continued Legal Harassment Of Michael Flynn

Judges refusing to allow prosecutors to dismiss charges. HAHA. Such an unconstitutional violation of Separation of Powers.

[De Oppresso Liber]

So when trump can't personally order a thrice confessed criminal free you scream about unconstitutionallity. Haha. You guys should be funny, if you weren't such bitter fascists.

[soldiermedic76]

Keep trying. You might make a point sooner or later. He was tricked into the confession, based upon a questionable charge, and was threatened and his family threatened if he didn't confess. The Prosecutors have admitted prosecutorial misconduct and have dropped the charges, the judge refuses to accept that for purely political reasons. If the roles were reversed you be the first one castigating the judge. But no, you are putting partisanship before principles. All the while accusing others of doing exactly what you are doing. Like most lefties, you are a hypocrite who projects your own shortcomings onto everyone else.

[damikesc]

The Central Park Five confessed too. They should be in jail still, right?

[Gray_Jay]

Not for raping that jogger, no. For the other bullshit they may or may not have done that night? Maybe.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Funny you bring that up. Are you saying our generals are as naive as teenage boys? Or are you saying there is DNA evidence to back Flynn up? Or are you saying that Trump is as wrong about Flynn as he still is about the central park 5? All good reasons to distrust Trump to personally intervene in criminal cases of his friends.

[soldiermedic76]

No there are the FBI's own notes and the prosecutors own admission that they withheld evidence, especially exculpatory evidence. And oh the head of the DoJ's notes where he admitted his aim was to fry Flynn and he rejected the FBI investigators assertion that the mistake was honest and not conscious lying.

[Radionic]

"Are you saying "

You know what hes saying and it makes you look bad.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

I have a suggestion for Shikha Dalmia's next column.

India Bans 118 Chinese Apps as Indian Soldier Is Killed on Disputed Border

Ms. Dalmia has taught me that authoritarian policies in India are ultimately Drumpf's fault. She could easily get a few hundred words out of this latest example.

[NashTiger]

Spring Rolls, Egg Rolls, Chicken on a stick, pea pods, wonton, crab Rangoon, that's a lot of Chinese apps

[Ra's al Gore]

Nancy Pelosi Accuses Salon Of Setting Her Up, Suggests She’s Owed An Apology
https://www.dailywire.com/news/nancy-pelosi-accuses-salon-of-setting-her-up-suggests-shes-owed-an-apology

.@SpeakerPelosi blames a small business owner for her using their salon despite a San Fran ban: “It was clearly a setup … they owe me an apology”

[Ra's al Gore]

https://dailycaller.com/2020/09/02/erica-kious-tucker-carlson-esalon-nancy-pelosi-lockdown/
“I don’t think so,” she said, responding to a question from Carlson about whether she would keep her business open. “The hard part of all this is that I’ve been in that community for 12 years. And since this happened, I have received nothing but hate text messages, death threats, they’re going to burn my hair salon down. My Yelp page is just unbelievable with bad reviews. It’s just sad that my community is pulling this, when they are saying that I threw her under the bus when I didn’t. So that’s hurtful, but yeah, I think I’m pretty much done now.”

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1301374694709370880

They’re really going to do this I guess. Take Pelosi’s corner and try to wipe out a small business.
11:21 PM · Sep 2, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
1K
Retweets
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Stephen L. Miller
@redsteeze
·
9h
Replying to
@redsteeze
You guys want to know why that enemy of the people label sticks? It’s because you guys go barrel rolling after people like salon owners to protect people like Nancy Pelosi, just like you’re all about to do right now.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/KatiePavlich/status/1301252570044936196
They arrested a salon owner in Texas for opening her business and she WENT TO JAIL. But sure, Pelosi can do whatever she wants. Rules don’t apply to her and when she breaks them, it’s someone else’s fault.

[Illocust]

Some asked yesterday why more businesses don't flip politicians breaking their own rules off. These results clearly show why. You'll get screwed and nothing will happen to the politician.

[mad.casual]

The second the politician chose your store out of the phone book, you were screwed no matter what you did. At least if you shaved a stripe out of the middle of Pelosi's hair and released that video you'd have the small victory.

[Gray_Jay]

Leave California, Ms. Kious. There are plenty of states where you can ply your trade.

The Left is making it clear that agreeing to disagree is no longer an option.

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

My advice to her: get the fuck out of CA. Only in CA can embarrassing a member of the royalty result in people hating on you. Christ, that state's a shithole.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Who could have guessed 40 years later that Lex Luthor would have ended up looking like he was doing the country a favor?

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

#Superman was the real villain.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Here's one to ponder--would Supes have done his time-turner trick if Lois Lane hadn't been driving out in the middle of fucking nowhere and gotten crushed?

[soldiermedic76]

California's new motto will be come for the climate, don't leave because we will charge you an arm and a leg and break you if you do. And they can play the Eagles as the soundtrack to the commercials.

[Longtobefree]

So Hidin' Biden's dementia is contagious?

[The White Knight]

Not following. How is Pelosi’s douchebaggery related to dementia?

[soldiermedic76]

One of the early signs of dementia is loss of impulse control and a misunderstanding of how your actions are bad. This is one of the first things I learned when I took an continuing education course in behavioral nursing in elderly patients with dementia.

[soldiermedic76]

If I had to lay a bet, based upon her recent behaviors (past several years) paired with circumstantial evidence that she may well be a functional alcoholic, I would hazard a guess that she may be suffering from organic brain disorder. It's common in older alcoholics, especially female alcoholics.

[soldiermedic76]

Long term alcohol usage impacts thiamine levels and absorption and females already have a greater chance of thiamine and niacin deficiencies than men.

[The White Knight]

Do we need dementia to explain Pelosi's character flaws?

[soldiermedic76]

That isn't what you asked. You asked how her behavior could be tied to dementia. And yes, at least some of her behavior recently makes a lot more sense if she is suffering from dementia. Or it could be just hubris.

[The White Knight]

Seems like Longtobefree just really wanted to make a joke about Biden even if it was a stretch to tie it to a conversation about Pelosi.

[soldiermedic76]

Probably but you asked a question and I just provided you the information.

[Radionic]

Seems like Longtobefree just really wanted to make a joke

The White Knight
September.3.2020 at 11:41 am
“ I will take unreason’s silence…”

Of course, you will. The ancient art of interpreting

[The White Knight]

Relevance?

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

They are both demented old assholes of national prominence on team D. The connection is solid.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"Bitch set me up."

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

LOL that's the first thing I thought of.

[Nardz]

This is sooooooooo much worse

[soldiermedic76]

Fuck even CNN is mocking her defense. Queen Nancy the 1st got caught and can't weasel her way out of this.

[soldiermedic76]

*her = Pelosi.

[nola70113]

Nancy is old-guard Dem, so she might be expendable, or at least not invulnerable. I wonder how the journosphere would handle it if, say, AOC were to be caught pulling the same stunt.

[The White Knight]

I imagine she’s praying for something to knock this out of the news cycle. 2020 will no doubt come up with some crazy shit to answer her prayers.

[The White Knight]

They set her up the haircut!

[nola70113]

Even if the salon had just contacted her at random to “set up” a haircut, she would have had the prerogative (and should have had the presence of mind) to decline the offer. I would suggest it went down a bit differently.

[The White Knight]

No, no, she was totally entrapped into getting a shampoo and blowout.

[Nardz]

Salon experimenting with mind control

[Radionic]

Hey it's your "i go after leftists too!!!" bullshit headfake!

[The White Knight]

How's your day goin', Tulp'!

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

And Lizzie the Lizzie somehow conveniently missed this story. Because of course she did.

[Earth Skeptic]

Where is everybody?

[Ra's al Gore]

Dead from Covid because of Trump.

[loveconstitution1789]

Dead from Trump's election as President.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

Who cares?

AM LINQUES IS BACK!

(don't tell Britches)

[mad.casual]

Absolutely not tearing mailboxes full of ballots out of the ground and dumping them at the abandoned rock quarry if that's what you were thinking.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

Squirt a little lighter fluid, a few inches of lit magnesium ribbon ...

[loveconstitution1789]

Minnesota man who attended Sturgis motorcycle rally dies of coronavirus

ONE!?! Out of hundreds of thousands of attendees...

Anyone else notice the MSM Narrative machine has moved Kungflu off the top stories?

Its almost like out of 80 million Americans tested for Wuhanvirus and 6 million confirmed infected with 180,000 dead while infected is panning out to be an overreaction.

[De Oppresso Liber]

185,000 dead. Worst stats in the world. We are completely isolated from the world for the first time in history.

And because of morons like you. And you worry that we did too much?

Remember when you told that fun story about purposefully standing inside cashier's personal space so you could enjoy the look of fear on their face? I do. Reprehensible, uncivil, and violating the nap motherfucker.

[Official Judge of Performative Outrage]

.00000000065/10

[MikeP2]

"worse stats in the world"

A statement like that just shows your utter ignorances of what the stats actually say.

[JesseAz]

he isn't even using statistics, he is using raw numbers and not normalizing data for population. He's an idiot.

[De Oppresso Liber]

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Yep worst in the world. Adjusted for population, we are by far the worst. You can argue about the accuracy and method of data collection in other countries, but stat for stat, we are dead last. Daily deaths has only India competing with us in raw numbers, and you may want to check their total population figures to see how that adjustment doesn't make us look any better.

Just learn to accept reality. Trying to argue, every single time on every single issue, that there is some conspiracy among scientists to corrupt the data that would back your argument up must be getting pretty stale, eh? It certainly sounds stale to everyone outside the cult.

[soldiermedic76]

Comparing stats relies on the same methodology to be accurate. Arguing methodology is science. For example using a soil test using Olson's method of Phosphorus testing is not comparable to using the Bray method and comparing the two would be unscientific.

[Radionic]

Your own link says you're wrong.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Well, I’ll tell ya this: we’ve all had 7-8 months to see with our own eyes that shutting down the economy over this was fucking retarded. You’re free to hide in your basement if you want to.

[I, Woodchipper]

china only has 4500 dead! They said so!

[The White Knight]

Not sure this story is helping your case.

[JesseAz]

How not? More people died from vehicle accidents around Sturgis if i recall. Oh. You live in a state of irrational fear.

[The White Knight]

"You live in a state of irrational fear."

And you know that, how?

[soldiermedic76]

I agree with Jesse that the story doesn't hurt the case but also agree that I haven't seen evidence of you living in irrational fear. Unlike Jeff you seem to find the COVID restrictions irrational.

[The White Knight]

They are. Thank you for acknowledging I am a different person from chemjeff.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/its-time-to-loosen-lockdown-rules-for-restaurants-and-others/

Throughout this crisis, we’ve seen a division: One group, the pajama-wearers, can work from home indefinitely, never leaving their couches. They happily collect their checks and spend their time smug in the satisfaction that they have handled this pandemic flawlessly. They bake bread, buy a Peloton bike and post Instagram pictures of sunrises from vacation homes. They’re happy to listen to every backward directive from elected officials. They haven’t suffered like their fellow New Yorkers.

The second group has either worked through the lockdown or had sleepless nights wondering if their businesses will ever reopen. They’ve contended with ever-changing rules, ever-deferred opening dates and constant attacks on their livelihoods. I’m a pajama-wearer, but as a lifelong New Yorker, most of my world consists of people in the second group.

Many of these people compare their lives right now to living in a totalitarian regime, where rules make no sense but people are afraid to say so.

The East Village bar Lucky had its liquor license pulled, according to the website Eater, after the owner started a petition “to reverse the state’s new mandate that bars must serve substantial amounts of food with any alcohol purchase.” The Village Line bar in Erie County mocked Cuomo with its menu items, and it too had its liquor license suddenly pulled.

If you speak up, your pain could be extended, and every business owner in New York knows it.

[Overt]

At the beginning of this whole crisis I called it the Staycationers vs the Amputated. It is amazing that it has taken 5 months until even the conservative rags are making the same comparison.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The one thing about this is that it's a potential game-changer in terms of commercial real estate. Employers have always been reluctant to let people work from home in the post-information age because they can't keep a direct eye on them, and don't trust that they'll stay productive.

If cubicle drones have shown that they're getting the same amount of work done, or pretty close, during this time, it will be interesting to see if downtown office space suddenly becomes a buyer's market. What's the point in paying all that rent if you don't need your workers there, and can save money by keeping a smaller admin space to coordinate everything?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The other thing is transportation and settlement patterns. Most people still drive into work, even after all these years of cities trying to build up public transportation networks. What will be the long-term impact on road infrastructure and public transportation systems if most professional companies abandon downtown offices or downsize because most of their workforce can get the job done at home? If you don't need a lot of office space, why not relocate to a safe, clean, high-trust suburb or exurb where you don't have to worry about joggers burning down your workplace if some idiot commits suicide while running from the cops after killing another person?

I have a feeling we're going to see an echo of the 70s, when the migration of the middle class out of the cities into the suburbs finally came home to roost, only this time it's going to be corporations setting up shop outside the city and their workforce won't even have to bother traveling. Most of that is going to end up being done by the service class, but that isn't anything new.

[Illocust]

If true it will devastate the service industry in down towns. Entire restaurant industries are built around getting office workers lunch.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It's already happening on a smaller scale--San Francisco's bleeding population and people are having to go hours outside of the city to reserve UHaul trucks.

Too bad these assholes are going to end up bringing their deficient political views to the nicer, less dysfunctional areas and fucking those places up, too.

[Illocust]

I'm hoping that most of the worst will stick it out in the cities. There is a sort of holy land appeal a lot of the most radical have for living in Los Angeles or New York.

[Gray_Jay]

"The one thing about this is that it’s a potential game-changer in terms of commercial real estate."

Been thinking this for awhile. Our work groups' productivity have improved since work from home started. No security issues (knock on wood), still able to communicate effectively.

I would not want to be in the position of having to rely on large rents from Class A commercial real estate now or in the near future. Especially if the space is for a cubicle farm, and not for impressing or meeting with clients.

Lllocust is right; this is going to kill downtown service businesses. As well as their landlords too.

[Echo Chamber]

CDC is trying to take out the housing landlords. For the children

[I, Woodchipper]

I have first hand knowledge of a VERY LARGE corporation that is going to divest a huge amount of commercial office space they own.

[Roberta]

I wonder what Larry David's doing now. Remember he made that, "Stay home, watch TV," video? Of course that was only a week or so into the lockdown. He might be screaming now.

[The White Knight]

This is pretty spot on, except there’s one other important dimension: when school age kids come into the picture.

For the second group, having the kids home is, of course, a logistical nightmare.

For the pajama-wearers with kids that I know, the ones who are Democratic partisans and just won’t openly oppose lockdowns, I have seen them all cheating a bit when it comes to their children and being really quiet about it in social media. Doing things like having a small play date “pod“ of kids from one or two other families that their kids are allowed to play with. Or taking a family camping trip but not talking about it much on Facebook, as they normally would.

[The White Knight]

In contrast, conservative parents I know are like, "screw this", and openly defying lock down orders to take their kids to the park.

[Roberta]

Are there still places where parks are closed??! I thought they got over that mishigos months ago.

[The White Knight]

I had a similar reaction when I heard the Pelosi story. I had just gotten my hair cut about three days ago, and I was, like, "There are still places where you cannot get your hair cut indoors?" Oh, yeah -- California.

[Griffin3]

One of those groups is armed, and it's not the pajama-wearers.

[The White Knight]

I know more than one family of conservative, armed "pajama-wearers".

[Roberta]

I also wonder whether effectively indoor food and drink service is going to be killed long-term in some states, because after this pandemic there are likely to be others, and the powers that be may just decide restaurants and bars are too risky to have, or allow. Which means a boom in prepared meal and meal kit delivery, as well as take-out.

[loveconstitution1789]

Representatives from Fox News, C-SPAN and NBC will moderate the upcoming debates between President Donald Trump and Democratic challenger Joe Biden.

• Chris Wallace of Fox News for the debate Sept. 29 in Cleveland.
• Steve Scully of C-SPAN for the “town meeting” debate Oct. 15 in Miami.
• NBC’s Kristen Welker for the debate Oct. 22 in Nashville, Tennessee.

The commission also announced Wednesday that USA Today’s Susan Page will moderate the vice presidential debate on Oct. 7 in Salt Lake City with Vice President Mike Pence and Democrat Kamala D. Harris.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

Wait, WHAT?

NO CNN???

That is unconstitutional!

Jeff Zucker has a First Amendment right to have Entertainment Reporter Twink Stelter throw Biden some softballs.

[Cyto]

Well, the right wing representative is kind of a never trumper.... so take it with a grain of salt.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

C'Mon, Man!

Wallace is no Twink Stelter.

[soldiermedic76]

Wallace doesn't like Trump but he is one of the most professional newsman currently working.

[Cyto]

True.

But I find it odd that in my adult lifetime we have not been able to put together a credible debate format with simple down the middle moderators.

Heck, last go-around they had people feeding them the questions in advance. Even "town hall" meetings where the audience asks the questions are stacked with supporters from either side and questions are cherry picked.

I don't know if there is a way around it. But it really would be great if they had actual issues to discuss and were actually pushed to discuss them, without favor to either side.

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

But it really would be great if they had actual issues to discuss and were actually pushed to discuss them, without favor to either side.

That would be nice, but the debates have just been more Kabuki theater for about as long as I can remember.

[Gray_Jay]

Entertaining though---"Because you'd be in jail"---even if they're complete bullshit.

I'm very surprised that 3 presidential debates are scheduled. We'll see.

FWIW, I didn't think Biden has looked that bad in recent public appearances. Trying to look honestly, not hopefully, here.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

"But I find it odd that in my adult lifetime we have not been able to put together a credible debate format with simple down the middle moderators."

I know this is dangerous to say in a reputedly "Libertarian" forum but ...

The best suggestion I have heard so far is to allow each of the two major parties select a member of the media, then those two select a third as moderator.

[Nardz]

Yea, but that's a really low bar.
His interviews with Rs are always venomous, while he pulls punches with Ds.
He doesn't completely lay down, but he's like 85% biased vs 99%

[JesseAz]

My take as well. Look at any Conway interview. He basically calls her a liar the whole time. He had Kennedy after one time and didn't push back once on him in complete contrast.

[Troglodyte Rex]

How is it unconstitutional? The DNC and RNC are private clubs, not governmental operatives. They have every right to exclude shitstain McGee from their pillow fight.

[Overt]

Interesting. The first one is the killer for Trump. Chris Wallace hates Trump, and is going to go straight for the jugular.

[Tom Bombadil]

It'll slow Trump down a bit having to stomp two people at the same time.

[Troglodyte Rex]

Nah, here's how it will go...

Trump: Hey Joe, wake up...I'm going to have your son investigated and thrown in jail forever.

Joe: But, the thing, c'mon man, the thing.

Trump: Hey Chrissy, your ratings suck. Even that he-she Maddow is beating you like a rented mule.

Chris Wallace: Sir, I think you have me confused with Chris Matthews.

Trump: No, you suck, now go cry in a corner like you did with Obama.

Wallace: But sir...

Trump: Quiet you, or I'll make sure you and Sleepy's son share a cell.

Left news: Trump is a meanie head

Right news: Trump demonstrates true leadership.

[Gray_Jay]

"It's funny 'cause it's true..." LOL.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You know trump's going to lie and lie and lie. What's the point of watching?

[Don't look at me!]

Only 3 lies?

[soldiermedic76]

And Biden is going to lie and lie and make incoherent statements. But thanks for showing your partisanship.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

If what you're saying is unintelligible, is it really a lie?

[Nardz]

And if a known liar like de espresso claims you're lying, are you?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

I think both states are true until you look into the box to see if the cat is dead.

[soldiermedic76]

It's true that a sizeable percentage of Trump's lies do require you to squint awfully hard to see the lie, while others are outright hyperbole. It is the percentage between these two that is important, and I am not sure what that percentage is.

[soldiermedic76]

And I am sure Trump lies, but am not convinced it is worse than other politicians, but the media does call him out for anything they perceive as a lie far more than any politician I've ever seen in my 43 years. It wouldn't be a bad thing if they continued this trend but I suspect it would end as soon as the next Democrat is sworn in.

[soldiermedic76]

Uhmm maybe I have early dementia, I turned 44 in June.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Point to the lie. Go ahead. None of you ever can. None of you can ever cite your disagreements with me. You all dislike that I can and do back my arguments up with sources.

[soldiermedic76]

No you back them up with sources that usually contradict your statements and or are opinion pieces. As for you lying, maybe you don't maybe your mistakes are because you really don't understand the facts. No one is mad about your sources, because usually they undermine your case and it is amusing that you think they support you. Keep posting your 'sources'. It is actually the best counterargument to what you believe .

[The White Knight]

Trump also makes plenty of incoherent statements. We've got two doddering old men as the major party candidates.

[soldiermedic76]

Unfortunately you are correct. Although after the RNC convention I like the Republican bench better then the Democrats. And I am not sure what the LP bench looks like. I don't think they know.

[The White Knight]

Someone said the LP vice presidential candidate just endorsed Biden. Does he not understand the concept of running for office?

[soldiermedic76]

Yeah but the story is actually about the former nominee Weld, who did the same thing in 2016. Which doesn't speak well of the seriousness of the LP party, like you pointed out. I wish it was serious.

[The White Knight]

Oh, that’s not as bad as the current VP candidate not even endorsing his own ticket.

[soldiermedic76]

Which actually happened in 2016. When Weld endorsed Clinton.

[KillAllRednecks]

The GOP has Donna McDaniel who is Mormon and head of the RNC. So the GOP is screwed because Mormons are morons. Oh and soldiermedic you are a sucker and a loser for serving our country. At least that's what Trump thinks of you. I'm sure you'll still support him because being a Mormon apologist and related to mormons means you aren't very bright. Why not ask your mother's family if the book or Mormon's so great why has virtually all of it been disproven. I'm sure they'll give a dumb answer cuz they're mormons. Anyway fuck off sucker and loser, at least that's what Trump thi is.

[loveconstitution1789]

WATCH: Biden Finally Takes Real Question From A Reporter. It Doesn’t Go Well.

“You said that you warned President Trump in January that there was going to be a pandemic and what needed to be done,” Doocy said. “If you knew that, then why were you still hosting crowded campaign rallies in March?”

Biden struggled to give a coherent response as he repeatedly made false claims, like suggesting that he was the first person to call for using the Defense Production Act.

[Illocust]

Oh shit, someone just lost their access forever, but good on that reporter.

[Cyto]

That is a must read.

Biden just faced one more tough question than Obama faced in 12 years.

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

It was a Fox News reporter, so the progtards will just ignore it or dismiss it as "Faux News running cover for Trump" or some such horseshit.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1301349943882461186

Your daily reminder schools are open almost everywhere else. Even France, which has soaring #Covid test counts, but where schools are not fully in the pocket of teachers unions and media hysterics. Yes, the French have more control over public sector unions than the US. Who knew?

[De Oppresso Liber]

This is why i keep telling you guys to lay off the partisan media consumption.

"The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control notes that the US has had an average of over 120 cases of coronavirus per 100,000 people over the past 14 days. In that same period France has had an average of less than 20."

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Coronavirus-how-do-France-and-the-US-compare

US currently has 6x the outbreak that France has. Now that you have the full picture, it changes the story you were trying to tell quite a bit, doesn't it?

[R52]

"4 August 2020"

[Radionic]

US currently has 6x the outbreak that France has

Is this idiot actually using raw number of cases?

Seriously?

[soldiermedic76]

Yes. No further comment needed.

[De Oppresso Liber]

No, it isn't. And you guys are both hard R retarded. It is given in a per capita rate, "per 100,000 people".

Read it again, for fuck's sake.

[soldiermedic76]

I ain't even a fucking Republican and my IQ is far from retarded, which btw is a very derogatory and bigoted phrase. It is the mental health equivalent of the n word.

[Radionic]

Look again fucktard

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

That’s better.

[Formerly FreeRadical]

I'm constantly trying to get people to understand the difference between raw numbers and those that are per capita or are rates. It's not hard.

Some of them look at me blankly for a moment. Then, they scream, "YOU HATE SCIENCE AND DATA!!!"

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

Some of them look at me blankly for a moment. Then, they scream, “YOU HATE SCIENCE AND DATA!!!”

*facepalm*

Christ, I fucking hate people.

[soldiermedic76]

The one that gets me is when people use the car right tail or left tail of the distribution curve to represent the rest of the curve.

[soldiermedic76]

*far

[De Oppresso Liber]

If it's not hard, then why did you fuck it up? What does "per 100,000 people" mean to you?

You guys are so blinded by partisan dipshittery. This thread is hilarious.

[soldiermedic76]

Says the guy who just labeled all of who disagrees with him retarded Republicans. Yeah we are the only partisan hacks. Also, as I've told you multiple times I am not a Republican I registered LP last time I registered and voted for Johnson and am planning on voting for Jorgenson.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

Two can play that game.

The USA has an order of magnitude more non-infected than France does.

[De Oppresso Liber]

No, it is population adjusted, you utter mouth breather. It says it right in the quote. "per 100,000".

[Formerly FreeRadical]

I admit, I thought you used different numbers for your 6x statement. I apologise. But my point about other experiences I've had remains.

[soldiermedic76]

And there you go again, implying anyone who disagrees with you is stupid conservatives right after accusing everyone else of being partisan hacks. Do you understand hypocrisy?

[soldiermedic76]

And your citation also says the fatality rate is far higher in France and France uses a different method to test then the US and a different threshold, so my comment about methodology below stands. It's an apples to oranges comparison, even if it is per 100,000.

[JesseAz]

So you completely ignored the NYT article on how testing procedures are different and the US is over replicating samples? Estimates of 60-90% of cases would be negative per European standard number of replication.

[soldiermedic76]

So like infant mortality, different measurement techniques result in different outcomes and comparing them is useless?

[soldiermedic76]

Once again making the argument that the M&M section of any scientific study is by far the most pertinent section when evaluating the data and conclusions. Unfortunately most people skip the M&M section because it's boring.

[De Oppresso Liber]

No, I haven't seen that. Care to link?

[soldiermedic76]

Both use PCR but the European Science agencies caps repetition at 35 runs, which is considered the industry norm, the US uses 37-40 runs. The more runs, they higher likelihood of false positives. If you run pcr enough times, and above 35 is considered excessive by most geneticists, you likely will find the sequence you are looking for even if it doesn't prove accurate.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

More bad economic news.

Reason.com's benefactor Charles Koch only earned $655,000,000 yesterday.

That's much less than he would have earned if he had access to the highly skilled Mexican laborers currently stuck in Orange Hitler's concentration camps.

#OpenTheBordersToHelpCharlesKoch

[loveconstitution1789]

2020 Black Lives Matter Protesters Attacking Trump’s Visit To Kenosha: ‘Riots Work’

HAHA. These stupid people are so ignorant of history.

When Americans get scared, they commit violent acts against those that threaten peace.

Slaughter of AmerIndians
Japanese-American internment
40+ years of war in Middle East
...

[Longtobefree]

Japanese-American internment -

To lazy to search - has ANY riot targeted statues of the old white guy who did this to people of color?

[Troglodyte Rex]

Well there is a "coin shortage"...all those dimes have his bust on them.

[BillyG]

None I've heard of, and he wasn't mentioned in DC's wokeness review for some strange reason too. Almost as if Democrats want to white wash his actions.

[soldiermedic76]

Biden's campaign accused of copying Trump's campaign after Biden announced visit to Kenosha.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

To be fair, none of these people actually know what "work" means. I blame public schools.

[loveconstitution1789]

New York City Suffers 50 Percent Murder Spike In August, Shootings More Than Double

HAHA. Anyone else see the Socialist propagandists try to blame Democrat run city violence on Trump?

[Longtobefree]

#defundthepolice

[mad.casual]

And they call it the *Second* City:

The 105 murders reported in July are a nearly 139% increase from the 44 reported in July 2019, according to police data released Saturday. The 406 shooting incidents last month were a 75% increase from the 232 reported in the same month-to-month comparison.

[loveconstitution1789]

To Find The Origins Of Today’s Race Rage, Start In 1960s Academia

That and the Democrat Party is literally the Party of slavery.

The Democrat Party seceded from the USA and started the Civil war with one reason being to protect slavery.

[Longtobefree]

And looking at their platform, they still think black people are too stupid to take care of themselves, or make any live decisions.
Meets my definition of racist.

[Longtobefree]

live = life

[Longtobefree]

NOTE TO REASON EDITORS:
It is bad enough you don't have an edit function here, then you add insult to injury by throwing up a "you are posting too fast, slow down" nag screen when we try to correct with a reply.
Do you really hate our comments so much, or are the ad revenues so great you don't need us to provide the content that people actually read?

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Well, they are definitely incapable of obtaining ID.
THAT we know!

How they get into da clubs remains a mystery.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Dishonest to the point of abject stupidity. Tell me, which party loses their shit when told that people no longer appreciate statues of klansmen and confederates?

Never heard of the southern strategy? Or are you really trying to pretend that today's gop is anything other than white identity politics?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

To be fair, white people are pretty awesome. It's why so many people, regardless of race, want to live in their neighborhoods and send their kids to their schools.

[soldiermedic76]

If it was just Klansman and White supremacists you might have a point, but looking at all the statues they've removed and destroyed, hmmm many weren't Klansman or white supremacists. Gee. Telling a false narrative right after you accuse Trump of being a liar (which he is, just like you are) more projection on your part I see.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Confederates aren't white supremacists in your fucked up fascist head?

[soldiermedic76]

No, I am arguing against the blatantly false narrative it's only Confederates being removed you fuck nut. You just blatantly misrepresented what I said while at the same time upstream you stated you never lie. Guess what you just fucking lied asshole. You want a citation of your lying, you just provided it. I never said Confederates and I clearly stated "If it was just Klansman and White Supremacists", which clearly indicates it isn't only limited to those two classes. I never stated Confederates weren't white supremacists. Not even close. So yes you are. Fucking liar. You just proved it.

[soldiermedic76]

And to further your lie, two responses later I clearly give an example of someone who wasn't a white supremacists or a Klansman that they attempted to remove a statue of by defacing it and you don't even have the decency to apologise for your above statement. And what about my statement makes me a fascist? Disagreeing with you is fascism now? That in itself is a fascist tactic. Projecting once again.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Not anymore, Pleasant Crump died in 1951.

[BillyG]

"southern strategy"

Would that be the election where Johnson campaigned in the south pointing out his opponent Goldwater voted for the Civil Rights Acts? Or how Democrat Senators still represented those states for another 20 years? The mythical "Southern Strategy" is a conspiracy theory.

[JesseAz]

Dol loves his conspiracies.

[BYODB]

Hard to ignore that the politicians were the same people, so I assume we're saying that all the Democrats who were racist Grand Wizards of the KKK one day (Robert Byrd, for example) were suddenly in favor of the Civil Rights Act the next day. They 'evolved' their positions, whereas somehow all the exact same Republican politicians decided to become Grand Wizards after supporting the Civil Rights Act.

This makes sense to some people. I won't guess what kind of brain trauma causes them to think it makes sense, but they do believe it.

[JesseAz]

You mean bot supporting the ones going after Washington, Jefferson, etc?

[soldiermedic76]

And Colonel Heg, I mean belonging to the Free State Party, being an Abolitionist and dying fighting to end slavery (his stated reason for raising the Scandinavian Regiment) screams Klansman and White Supremacist.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Haha. Well, you would know about identity politics.

“Everything is so terrible and unfair!!!!!”

[Procyon Rotor]

Lincoln started the Civil War to put an end to the concept of self-determination once and for all. But you're far from the only person who gets that wrong.

[loveconstitution1789]

Is Politics Killing The NBA’s Ratings?

HAHA. The Silent Majority is voting with their wallets and viewing habits. They have much more financial pull than the SJWs.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

I wonder how many of the SJW types ever watched sports in the first place. It seems futile for, say, the NFL to pander to people who think football is stupid and overly violent.

[Nardz]

It's pandering to the players and corporate sponsors.
Fuck the fans

[Jason A]

NBA is stupid. I'll NEVER watch again. PERIOD. NFL is moving in the same direction too. People watch sports to avoid politics. Once they bring politics in, most people are out. At least I am.

[Ra's al Gore]

Why Trump Doesn’t Just 'Send In the Troops'
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/09/03/why-trump-doesnt-just-send-in-the-troops-n2575501?30

Let me share some background. After I got off active duty the first time, I joined the California Army National Guard. For the next 23 years I participated in, planned, and commanded during multiple civilian support operations. I was in the Los Angeles Riots, the Northridge Earthquake, and I commanded two battalions along with other forces in northern San Diego County during the 2007 fires. I planned ops from platoon to state headquarters level, and wrote about civil support ops in Infantry magazine and even in a first-of-its-kind law review article. So, I know a little about this stuff.

[Ra's al Gore]

New York isn’t dying. The rich are moving out and the city is being reborn [without half its tax base]
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/new-york-isn-e2-80-99t-dying-the-rich-are-moving-out-and-the-city-is-being-reborn/ar-BB18CBQA

[Longtobefree]

Willie Nelson references this in his song "I never cred for you".

[Longtobefree]

Damn it, here we go again!
cred = cared

[Illocust]

They'll just up the taxes on everyone else.

[Tom Bombadil]

In Central Park they should just plant those trees upon which money grows.

[Ken Shultz]

I've been making the case that the lockdowns were ineffective in stopping the spread of the virus--and, thus, offered little if any benefit in stopping the virus while maybe tripling the unemployment rate in the states that locked their economies down early, harshly, and for a long time.

But I've been making those observations with generalized data. This is a study saying more or less the same thing--with a much more detailed data analysis. It's the best thing I've read in a long time.

"TrendMacro, my analytics firm, tallied the cumulative number of reported cases of Covid-19 in each state and the District of Columbia as a percentage of population, based on data from state and local health departments aggregated by the Covid Tracking Project. We then compared that with the timing and intensity of the lockdown in each jurisdiction. That is measured not by the mandates put in place by government officials, but rather by observing what people in each jurisdiction actually did, along with their baseline behavior before the lockdowns. This is captured in highly detailed anonymized cellphone tracking data provided by Google and others and tabulated by the University of Maryland’s Transportation Institute into a “Social Distancing Index.”

Measuring from the start of the year to each state’s point of maximum lockdown—which range from April 5 to April 18—it turns out that lockdowns correlated with a greater spread of the virus. States with longer, stricter lockdowns also had larger Covid outbreaks. The five places with the harshest lockdowns—the District of Columbia, New York, Michigan, New Jersey and Massachusetts—had the heaviest caseloads.

. . . .

The lesson is not that lockdowns made the spread of Covid-19 worse—although the raw evidence might suggest that—but that lockdowns probably didn’t help, and opening up didn’t hurt.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-failed-experiment-of-covid-lockdowns-11599000890?

The piece goes on to cite other analytics reports that have come to the same conclusion: the lockdowns fail the cost/benefit analysis miserably. And it isn't that the benefit of the lockdowns is relatively small compared to the negative impact they had on the economy. It's that nobody can seem to find any evidence of the benefit.

If the Biden campaign is depending on the accusation that President Trump should be ousted because he failed to lock the economy down nationally, they better find another line of attack. The more people learn the truth, the more likely President Trump is to be reelected.

[JesseAz]

But how can one virtue signal and Karen without a mask?

[loveconstitution1789]

ABC Reporter Claims Saying Biden Has Mental Problems Is Russian Propaganda

HAHA. Americans can see Biden's mental unfitness. No amount of propaganda is going to fix that.

Notice the Lefty propagandists trying to find some Trump physical ailment because Biden is so mentally unfit for office?

After 4 years of trying to find dirt or something voters will hold against Trump, the Lefties can't. HAHA

[Tom Bombadil]

Is the reporter claiming Biden is reading a teleprompter that Russians loaded with gibberish?

[Echo Chamber]

"79% of Democrats say significant changes in the structure of government are needed"
Translation: put our team in charge

[Tom Bombadil]

Translation II: "More free shit, please".

[OneSimpleLesson]

Green New Deal
Wealth Tax
Inheritance Tax
$15 national minimum wage
Single Payer Healthcare
Abolish the Electoral College
Reparations

Some of those things are massive changes in the structure of government

[Don't look at me!]

Also, unaffordable.

[BillyG]

Incorrect. They're not calling for a $15 minimum wage, it's now $30.

[soldiermedic76]

Remember when they claimed that was a ridiculous counterargument to the $15 minimum wage? Peppridge Farms Remembers.

[soldiermedic76]

The left always ridiculed the slippery slope argument then goes and keeps proving that giving them anything is a slippery slope. We now have politicians and activist opening campaigning to make pedophilia acceptable.

[BYODB]

If someone is making the argument that pedophilia is acceptable, they should probably explain how it is children are capable of consent but only in this one narrow area that results in your sexual gratification.

[soldiermedic76]

You pedophibic bigot how dare you use logic. Sarc off
It is being argued for some to be added to the LGBTQ alphabet and by some of the activist for this community. Although others are pushing against it: but considering many in the gay community have problems with the transgender rights push, I don't hold high hopes they will be successful.

[BYODB]

So far, they've always had the cover of 'this is something two consenting people do' which has given them logic and reason to stand behind when all else fails.

I suspect 'some' is an inflated count of how many people think that's a good idea, even in far-left LGBTQ circles. In this case, 'some' could very well refer to just two very loud people. (Exaggeration, for sure, but probably not by much.)

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1301213091544342529

BIDEN to TRUMP: “Stop your boast about — never being — seemed at you — you can do anything.”

[mad.casual]

Even in his moments of clarity he'd still get murdered in a debate.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

I'm going to need a cite for one of these moments of clarity you're claiming he has.

[mad.casual]

See above, "Negotiate a deal. A deal for someone other than youself." Is pretty coherent and on topic or at least adverserial to his opposition. However, the obvious reply is "A deal like the tarrifs on China? A deal like immigration with Mexico and Guatemala? A deal that made Jerusalem the capital of Israel? A deal like the neutralization of N. Korea? A deal like the one that gets us out of Iraq? A deal like the one with Iran? A deal like Syria? Joe, it seems like in 4 yrs. I've made more deals than you, in your entire lifetime in government, know what to do with."

[Echo Chamber]

"the 9th Circuit has ruled that the NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal"
Can Snowden come home now?

[BYODB]

No, because FYTW.

At least Trump talked about maybe letting him come home without prosecution, but so far hasn't done anything about it. Guessing it didn't poll well. Even talking about it is already light years ahead of just about everyone on both sides of the aisle though, even while talk doesn't mean much,

[JesseAz]

Doubts about democracy. A new Pew Research Center poll of Americans finds that "among the public overall, 68% say it is very important for the country that people are free to peacefully protest, down from 74% two years ago.

When you work hard to change the definition of peaceful to include arson, assault, murder, intimidation, etc...

[soldiermedic76]

That was my thoughts.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1301271209393491973

The BBC just ran a Charlie Hebdo piece which basically suggested there was still a "debate" over whether the cartoonists deserved it. Absolute trash.

[mad.casual]

And, of course, the British are too polite to openly contact the BBC and ask them whether they think there should be a debate about whether they deserve it or not.

[Ra's al Gore]

Damn, this will be the shortest civil war on record.

https://twitter.com/theblaze/status/1301067398972309504
Antifa 'commander' cried in 'fetal position' after being caught with flamethrower, smoke grenades on way to protest

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1301168134884192258

.
@gucci
2020 Antifa fall-collection.

[soldiermedic76]

And Kirkland wonders why we aren't scared of his threats?

[Formerly Cynical Asshole]

I'm sure he'll be very "popular" in prison.

[soldiermedic76]

Yes, forced blowjobs are better when they are crying while you face fuck them according to some genres of porn.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/exjon/status/1300199760431702017

The Dems and media now pretend to oppose the riots consuming the cities. Just 3 weeks ago,
@washingtonpost
did a photo spread celebrating Antifa fashion.

[Cyto]

Question for you:

Why do you suppose that the 2020 campaign season kicked off with Trump being asked "will you leave office if you lose the election?"

I mean, that's a really, really odd question to ask. I don' t believe any president in history has been asked such a thing.

Last time around they asked "will you accept the results if you lose?" Which was also extremely odd - particularly since a certain political faction never has accepted the 2000 election - and that faction does not include Trump.

It just seems... unusual. And unusually specific.

[Ra's al Gore]

The idea is that any legal challenge to anything from the GOP is an attack on democracy, while legal challenges from the left are defending it.

Basically, they intend to 'find' enough mail in ballots after election day, when they know how many they need, to flip swing states.

They intend to steal the election, then change the ballot/immigration rules to make sure they never lose again. One party dictatorship under socialism.

[Longtobefree]

LBJ

[Cyto]

Well... They did follow this progression after "will you leave office?"

"We must conduct this election via mail"

"We must mail ballots to all voters, whether they request them or not"

"We must mail ballots to all citizens, whether they are registered to vote or not"

"We must mail ballots to all residents, regardless of status"

"Post mark dates must not be required"

"Trump is shutting down the post office to deny people the right to vote"

Then the latest.... a DNC polling firm warns that on election night Trump may appear to have won in a landslide... but as the mail in vote comes in, that will change to a landslide for Biden.

Now... I don't know exactly how you poll for that.... but the notion that there would be a large number of ballots coming by mail well after the election is extremely suspicious. Why would you wait until election day to mail in your ballot? I mean, at that point just go to the polls. Yet they are planning for a huge influx of ballots many days and even weeks after the election? How does that work?

I mean, historically the mail in vote (previously absentee ballots) is mostly military stationed around the world. So they don't get their ballots mailed in until after election day - due to international post. But mailing a ballot from Huston to Dallas is supposed to add weeks of delay?

Color me skeptical.

[perlchpr]

Good thing the entire news media confirmed that the election has to happen on election day, when Trump asked about postponing it. Now we don't have to worry about anything that shows up after election day.

[Mother's lament]

I was reading a couple of Lebanese on Twitter the other day, and they were saying that the feeling in the US right now is spookily similar to the atmosphere in Lebanon before the civil war.

[Jerryskids]

Yes, they're telegraphing their punches by asking him if he'll leave office if he "loses" the "election". Any reasonable person has to answer that it depends on whether or not it was a fair election. When Joe Biden "appears" to have lost in a landslide and then miraculously gets 85% of the write-in vote and 100% of the missing votes, the late votes, the unsigned ballots, the dead, fictional, questionable, indecipherable and multiple-voting ballots, and that's enough to turn the election around, Hillary Clinton's advice kicks in. Under no circumstances should Trump concede the election. Never mind that Hillary herself is going to be the first in line to be squawking about how refusing to concede the election is the most shockingly horrible un-American bit of Russian Nazi behavior imaginable.

[soldiermedic76]

It worked in Minnesota and Washington State.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Fuckin Russian nazis. Always hated them.

[JesseAz]

NPR praises nazis.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/09/02/908732924/the-warsaw-ghetto-can-teach-the-world-how-to-beat-back-an-outbreak?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[mad.casual]

Again, I'm glad I gave up on them back when they openly admitted that China had surpassed the US in CO2 emissions, showed no sign of slowing, was already more generally polluted than the US, and then asserted what we really needed to address AGW issue in this country was a more socialist-style governmet like China's.

[BYODB]

Guess they never heard the phrase 'climate bomb' in reference to China. They must really believe CO2 is so much worse than hydroflourocarbon-23.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Haha. I member back during the Beijing olympics when every news source showed pictures of thick smog and people walking around with masks. (!)

Seattle times headline: China is way ahead of US in clean energy production.

Sigh. We suck. Haha.

[Jerryskids]

People have doubts about democracy

Yeah, people like George Washington and Ben Franklin and James Madison, but what do they know? They're all dead white guys, so this "tyranny of the majority" and "mob rule" is just a bunch of nonsense that has no relevance to our modern world.

[Cyto]

sharp point on that rapier

[mad.casual]

Mike Masnick of Techdirt checks in on some of the public comments to the Federal Communications Commission about Section 230; start here: Masnick is a hack who couldn't tell the Constitution from a hole in the ground.

You people are idiots.
Q: Why isn't The Woodhull Freedom Foundation suing for violation of section 230 rather than the 1 and 5A?
A: Because Congress passed section 230 and if they passed it, they can damn well modify it.

[Jerryskids]

Meanwhile, the SAFE SEX Workers Study Act, introduced by Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.) to pave the way for FOSTA's dismantling, has gone nowhere since its introduction last December.

Yeah, good luck trying to dial back the police state when everybody's screaming for more policing. Just don't come whining to me when you've called for the police to do more head-thumping and yours is the head getting thumped. Cops don't discriminate on the matter of head-thumping.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Mother Tam says wear a mask during sex. I don't know what kinky shit she's into but that's her business.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canada-s-top-doctor-consider-using-a-mask-during-sexual-activity-1.5090359

What's frightening is a public health official involving herself to this degree in the lives of private citizens.

What happened to 'I don't care what you do in the privacy of your room?'

What could possibly have driven her to say this? Yeh, I want to be naked with someone in masks. Makes me wonder if she's plain stupid and autistic.

Wear masks everywhere. All the time. FOR NATION!

[mad.casual]

And, of course, the Canadians are too polite to ask her if it wouldn't be more prudent for her to recommend Canadians avoid riskier sexual behavior rather than masks during intercourse.

[ErictheRed]

and her photo...??

Is she describing the average (ahem) manhood of a Canadienne?

[Dillinger]

she likes the leather ones w/zipper-mouths.

[Mickey Rat]

With the way Covid is supposedly transmitted, a mask is useless during sex if you are also not wearing a full body condom.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

Don't give these killjoys any ideas.

[perlchpr]

Mandatory heavy duty vulcanized body condoms.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Did you hear? If you don't wear a mask you're a sociopath.

This is where we are: Sociopath and mask sex.

Know what I think? Public health officials pimping fear and telling you how to fuck ARE SOCIOPATHS.

And putting kids in masks is the work of SOCIOPATHS.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/people-with-sociopathic-traits-less-likely-to-follow-coronavirus-guidelines-study-finds-1.5089666

[Cyto]

That has the ring of "made up" to it.

Sociopaths lack empathy. It is a wiring deficiency in their brain.

Because of the lack of empathy, they have to learn how to fake empathy to survive in society.

So an actual sociopath gets pretty good at picking up on cues about how to act in society at large. How to dress. How to mouth the right platitudes. It is only at the edges that this comes apart. It is when you deal with someone over time... you begin to see the inappropriate smile or use of a phrase - because they have miscalculated the situation.

But wearing a mask? That kind of overt social signaling should be right in their wheelhouse. That is a huge flashing sign... I am normal! A sociopath would usually wear the mask to fit in.

[mamabug]

All the sociopaths right now are wearing masks.

Because it protects them being identified while they barricade a police station and set it on fire.

[Think It Through]

Somebody is on a link spree this morning.

[Rufus The Monocled]

How in the world can a nut case from a nut case party be leading? I refuse to believe it.

[soldiermedic76]

The Fox Poll is definitely an outlier according to RCP, which has shown most every other poll with the race tightening and a number showing Trump leading in several Battleground states. FNC polling has always been unreliable, and tends to overstate the Democrats lead. But remember FNC is propaganda for the RNC, right?

[Rufus The Monocled]

The criminality of it all. Read and watch all this in succession. Maybe 10 m. in total. I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy…..but it’s aliens. Strange coincidences. And it all leads back to Big pharma.

“The mainstream media portrayed the so-called “swine flu” outbreak as a serious threat, with the then U.S. Vice President Joe Biden going so far as to advise people against confined spaces, such as airplanes,[10] and the World Health Organization (WHO) declaring it a pandemic in June of that year.[11] The flu itself was responsible for about 18,500 deaths, according to the WHO’s estimate, which they described as “almost surely underreported.” Nevertheless, this figure was far lower than the number of annual deaths believed to be caused by ordinary flu strains.[12] However, Vanderbilt University Medical Center’s William Schaffner stated that the capacity of the center was “stretched” as a result of the outbreak.”

[Rufus The Monocled]

Now watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB0MEjHgkfM

[Rufus The Monocled]

And then read this.

And now read this.

https://www.virology.ws/2009/05/23/who-will-redefine-pandemic/

It's the little things that say so much. It all seems to connect somehow.

I remember the vaccine scandal story from Finland very well involving Glaxo Smith-Kline.

[Sevo]

test

[Sevo]

Relevant to the number of blacks shot by cops:

"..."It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau.
And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs..."

Being involved in violent crime is certain to raise the probability of being shot by a cop.

[Cyto]

Either that or racist cops avoid shooting white people. You know, like in that Eddie Murphy sketch on SNL where they all wear white makeup and get stuff for free like white people do?

[D-Pizzle]

Quoting Biden when he glitches is working. Putting his video up and then quoting the word salad he responds with is a devastating tactic. It wouldn't work if there wasn't something there.

[Cyto]

Something is weird about this pandemic.

India still is not a hot spot (according to the numbers)

Neither is Africa.

Neither location has the type of authoritarian control to allow the aggressive quarantine that some asian countries used successfully. Both have immense urban populations living in relative poverty with huge densities.

And yet... not nearly the Covid numbers that the west has seen.

What is that all about?

Why no news stories about it?

Is there some pre-existing strain of coronavirus that confers immunity in those areas? Are they just not reporting the epidemic? What gives? India alone should outstrip all of the US and Europe.

[Ra's al Gore]

Poor places are where unhealthy people die early instead of living long enough to die in a NY nursing home

[Mother's lament]

They're not enlightened or sophisticated enough to catch it. If only they read the New York Times.

[Illocust]

Less old sick people and fat sick young people in poorer countries, so a virus that leaves healthy young people alone just can't get a good death rate going?

[Ken Shultz]

Places that don't have much money to spend on educating their poor don't have much to spend on testing either.

[Ken Shultz]

Places that don't have much money to spend on educating their poor don't have much to spend on testing either.

[Illocust]

That too. This isn't the black plague. If you don't test, there is no way to tell that someone didn't just die from the normal flu.

[Ken Shultz]

In some of those places, I'm not sue what they'd do differently because you tested positive anyway.

[Gray_Jay]

Widespread use of HCQ as malaria prophylaxis was the guess I had, asking that question way back when. I wonder why Argentina and Uruguay aren't basket cases at this point.

[Nardz]

^

[BYODB]

The most likely reason is because those places are so fucking dirt poor that this is one of the many things they literally can not afford to freak out about. Who's going to go around testing people in cities where you'll get shot in the face for being in the wrong neighborhood, or when the local warlord decides you look delicious.

If you have no testing and have no infrastructure to count morality it will look exactly the same, from the outside, as if they didn't have the disease at all.

[Sevo]

OK, tried posting the link separately; reason doesn't like the link, but there are plenty of them.

[Mother's lament]

"among the public overall, 68% say it is very important for the country that people are free to peacefully protest, down from 74% two years ago. In this case, the decline has come entirely among Republicans," Pew notes."

Redefining "peaceful protests" to include looting, arson and violent riots might just have that effect. Perhaps journalists not lying about the riots and street thuggery could have helped.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1301276284253855746

Q: "I just spoke to a San Francisco barber who's a fan of yours, he supports you. But he thinks you owe the service industry an apology."

Speaker Pelosi: "Well I don't. I think that this salon owes me an apology."

[Cyto]

Which is exactly what someone who is not above the law would say.

[Cyto]

That chick is 80 years old.

She is directly in the "gonna die of covid" cohort.

Yet she goes to a salon without a mask when she thinks she's off camera.

So....

Is she really as afraid of covid as she seems to claim? I mean, she really, really wants everyone else scared and holed up in their home. But she doesn't seem too concerned. She's as high risk as anyone short of RBG. Yet she's out and about, not a care in the world.

Why do you suppose that is? Why the disconnect between her speeches and her actions?

[Gray_Jay]

There's a vaccine, and she's already had it?

[soldiermedic76]

Bathing in the blood of your servants protects you from the virus. But first you have to sadistically torture them and sexually assault them.

[Mother's lament]

Pelosi being an undead Elizabeth Bathory 410 years later kinda makes sense.

[soldiermedic76]

Someone got the reference. Thanks, I thought it'd go unnoticed. Marie Antoinette was to obvious (and also historically incorrect because she actually did try and help the poor and never said let them eat cake).

[Gray_Jay]

Was it servants? Or little girls? Or both?

I guess you could have been going for a PizzaGate/harvest them for their adenochrome reference.

[soldiermedic76]

It was servants, little girls, little boys, travelers, townspeople what tripped her up and got her caught was when she boarded a nobleman's daughter and tortured her. And her head servant and groundsman assisted in the tortures.

[Nardz]

+SanFran Bathory

[Nardz]

Damn it!
Was late to the party

[mad.casual]

Speaker Pelosi: “Well I don’t. I think that this salon owes me an apology.”

Speaker Pelosi's id: "Oops! Too sociopathic/narcissistic! Quick, think of something to say that makes you seem empathetic."

Speaker Pelosi: "But I will say this, in fairness to him, and in sympathetic to him; we have to get our country moving again."

Speaker Pelosi's id: "Ah! Fooled them into thinking I'm normal again! I should really be the President."

[Mickey Rat]

Perhaps the support for a right to peaceful protests would not have gone down if it was not insisted that protests that include assault, battery, arson, and breaking and entering are peaceful.

[perlchpr]

"among the public overall, 68% say it is very important for the country that people are free to peacefully protest, down from 74% two years ago. In this case, the decline has come entirely among Republicans,"

Well, when you see what's billed as "peaceful protesting" these days, no fucking wonder it's lost its appeal.

[Mother's lament]

Rioting, looting and assault are peaceful protesting but political views that are not far-left are racism, and crude jokes are sexual assault.

The left is certainly having a great time reinventing language.

[newshutz]

silence is violence

[Jerryskids]

FOSTA Is Unconstitutional, Argue Sexual Freedom Advocates and First Amendment Lawyers in New Motion

Yeah, well, the Constitution doesn't matter any more, we're living in a democracy now where you can do whatever you can get away with doing.

[Jerryskids]

In a long-awaited decision, the 9th Circuit has ruled that the NSA's bulk collection of Americans' call records was illegal.

*Was* illegal is the key phrase here, the NSA's not doing that particular thing any more. Mighty brave of the 9th to come scurrying out from hiding and kick the corpse now that the monster is dead.

[Cyto]

Exactly.

That could have been adjudicated about 5 minutes after we found out it was happening... .but they really made that difficult.

[soldiermedic76]

In 2003 and 2004 I was stationed at Ft. Eustis providing medical support to Transportation Corp and reserve and guard troops deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan. Whenever you made a call or had answered a call into the barracks, there was a pause and a nearly inaudible click. Not sure if they were monitoring our calls but I wouldn't have been surprised. Anyhow I would joke with my Mom and my wife (I was on TCS orders so it was an unaccompanied tour) that we were being recorded. And then I would throw random "flagged" words into the conversation. Words like gold, bomb, planning, cell, etc into the middle of sentences. My mother hated it, kept saying if the FBI showed up to her house she was going to kill me. I am sure the people monitoring, if it actually was, was thinking this guy is just a sarcastic asshole, here we go again. And sometimes I would talk my wife into phone sex and then when we were finished, and say "to big brother listening in, you're welcome".

[soldiermedic76]

And I half suspect that they were actually doing random listening, mostly it's done by computers that look for keywords and phrases, and some of the keywords and phrases are fairly easy to guess. One day, during some downtime as we were vaccinating troops deploying, we were joking about being monitored and I was telling the story about what I did and my platoon sergeant walked up and said "yeah, Chilli, you should probably stop that" and laughed. Chilli was my nickname in my unit.

[Ron]

years ago I was getting intermittent phone service and it finally stopped all together. the repair man said my line was disconnected at the local substation a mile away. I said the CIA must of forgot to hook it back up the last time they listened in on me. the look of fear or bewilderment on his face was all I needed since I'm normally not that fast on quick verbal jabs.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/famed-attorney-for-rittenhouse-sandmann-has-twitter-account-locked-im-going-to-take-jack-dorseys-a-down

On Tuesday, the Twitter account of famed attorney L. Lin Wood, who has represented Richard Jewell, Nicholas Sandmann, Mark and Patricia McCloskey, and now Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17-year-old charged with fatally shooting two people in Kenosha, was locked for supposedly violating Twitter’s terms of service. Wood had already posted about raising money for Rittenhouse’s legal defense.

Wood, furious, told Fox News that he intended to sue Twitter and its CEO Jack Dorsey, asserting, “I’m going to take Jack Dorsey’s ass down. He has been abusing the First Amendment of this country for his own agenda.”

[Cyto]

Hmmm.... maybe he should get a lawyer who understands 1st amendment law to represent him..

[mad.casual]

I would assume there's a shortage as they're presumably busy explaining it to all the peaceful protesters who don't seem to understand it as well as all the media reporting on the protesters who also don't seem to understand it.

Matter of fact, looking at all of that, you might get the impression that citizens actually can abuse the right to free speech.

[mad.casual]

Matter of fact, looking at all of that, you might get the impression that citizens actually can abuse the right to free speech.

Moreover, if you did, it's pretty clear that the prerogative for deciding whether or not such an abuse occurred would be the courts.

[Cyto]

That's pretty funny....

[Illocust]

If Trump can't block people because of "Public Square" then twitter can't shut people down because they don't like how they are using their first amendment rights.

[BYODB]

Note how it's only a public square official government communications outlet when it lets them muzzle Trump. The little-man users can be shut the fuck out all day long, it's just that the strong-man out in front of the townhall gets to decide who is allowed to participate.

I'm not a fan of backdoor nationalizing Twitter, but since Twitter was backdoor nationalized shouldn't they be unable to ban users from their now-public platform? Banners users can't post on Trump's Twitter feed, after all.

[Jerryskids]

The head-turning number in this new Fox poll: Taken entirely after Kenosha unrest, it has Trump down 5 points in Wisconsin on "policing and criminal justice."

I'm not surprised - Trump hasn't done a goddamn thing to quell all the violence. Which only started about a week ago, after months and months of mostly peaceful protests. You know why he hasn't done shit to quell the violence? Because he knows he's only going to be attacked for sending in his Nazi stormtroopers to put down these peaceful protests. Why bother doing something when you're going to be attacked for doing it when it's much easier to do nothing and get attacked for that?

You know, I saw some woman on FOX this morning, a black woman, from Minneapolis whose hair salon had been destroyed by the mobs, going to cost her $200,000 just to have the remnants of her shop cleaned away. She ain't got $200,000. She wants Trump to come to Minneapolis to put a stop to the violence - and, oh, bring his checkbook. She repeated that twice, "bring his checkbook".

Fuck you, lady. Did you vote for Trump, did you support Trump? Did you vote for the incumbent socialists running your city or did you vote for the Republican opposition? Did you support the 2nd Amendment right to defend your business or did you just cower in fear as the mob destroyed your business? I'll bet I know the answer to those questions - you'll support Trump as long as he pays you to support him, but otherwise you're going to damn him to hell and support the same damn people who did this to you. Fuck you, lady.

[Cyto]

It just shows that propaganda works.

If you repeat it over and over enough times, and nothing interrupts that process... it becomes fact.

[mad.casual]

Head-turning number in new Fox poll: Weeks after brownshirts burn down several local businesses, local support for Nazi party proportionally higher.

[Ken Shultz]

There may be a legitimate argument to make that the reason people were upset with Trump was because he hadn't sent in the National Guard.

I suspect there's plenty of that going on in Portland right about now.

[Ken Shultz]

There may be a legitimate argument to make that the reason people were upset with Trump was because he hadn't sent in the National Guard.

I suspect there's plenty of that going on in Portland right about now.

[soldiermedic76]

And more lamenting that Trump didn't get more heavy handed because it didn't further their narrative of Trump as a tyrant.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

That's ultimately why they're so bent out of shape and desperately trying to tard-wrangle their footsoldiers now--they dared Trump to send in the military, he or his staff members clearly saw what their goal was, said, "Hey, if you want our help, just let us know!", and party-vanned a few Antifa agitators to get them to sing on their comrades.

Of course, now they're trying to flip the script and say that a bunch of left-wing rioters burning and destroying property in left-wing cities is "Trump's America." What they're really assblasted about is that he didn't give them the martyrs they wanted, and now they're stuck wallowing in their own shit.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Fuckin' LOL--even in the face of her own neighbors torching her business, she's still demanding, "GIMME DAT".

[Gray_Jay]

The entitlement mentality is strong. With everyone.

[Nardz]

Very funny tweet

http://twitter.com/selfdeclaredref/status/1301390831685951489?s=19

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

" you’ll support Trump as long as he pays you to support him"

How is this different from her support of Democrats? Historically they're the Free Shit Brigade, but if Trump wants to take the role she's happy to let him.

At least she admits she's a whore.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A new Pew Research Center poll of Americans finds that "among the public overall, 68% say it is very important for the country that people are free to peacefully protest, down from 74% two years ago.

The newly fluid definition of protest (and of peacefully) might have something to do with this.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

thread winner

[Ken Shultz]

"In the week ending August 29, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 881,000, a decrease of 130,000 from the previous week's revised level.

. . . .

The advance number for seasonally adjusted
insured unemployment during the week ending August 22 was 13,254,000, a decrease of 1,238,000 from the previous
week's revised level.

----Department of Labor, September 3, 2020

https://www.dol.gov/ui/data.pdf

So, 130,000 fewer people filed for unemployment compared to the week before, and the number of unemployed fell by 1.2 million.

This is good news for the economy and bad news for the stimulus.

[Dillinger]

>>D.C. police fatally shot a young black man in the back as he was running away from them.

goddam just stop. no person should be shot in the back by the state.

[Gray_Jay]

Sure they should. Given a few very important facts, whose absence or presence isn't obvious from the blurb ENB gave us. Facts like, 'Was he armed?' Related, 'Was he continuing to shoot back at the cops while he was fleeing?' Or, 'Was he a dangerous fleeing felon?' Or 'Would other people be endangered if he were allowed to flee?'

Basically, go look at Tennessee v. Garner, and see whether any of the factors mentioned there, were present here. But to make the blanket statement that the state should never shoot anyone in the back, is really silly.

I blame a bunch of bad TV and movie westerns for the staying power of that myth.

[Dillinger]

if there was justice to be served it required detective work not the Pat Garrett treatment. kid wasn't going to disappear into thin air and if they wanted him that bad they could have found him without the murder. who knows, grandmama might have talked him into turning himself in ...

[soldiermedic76]

He well could have. Or he could have barred himself in a home taking hostages, knowing they were looking for him. Making the situation much more dangerous. Blanket statements like never shoot anyone in the back are factually inaccurate because they don't allow for any nuances. It is an entirely emotional response and doesn't allow for any of a thousand possible scenarios were it might we'll be considered justifiable. E.g. had he fired from one position and was simply displacing to a second position of cover to again fire at the cops?

[soldiermedic76]

And for your Pat Garrett reference you seem to be arguing the myth of the old West code of only shooting someone who is a threat when they are facing you. And Billy was shot in the front, albeit Garrett was in the dark.

[Gray_Jay]

Said Code of the West being entirely horseshit. Vast, vast majority of homicides in the West occurred via ambush. Shotguns were really useful at that sort of thing.
Or they were from drunken brawls that got out of hand.

If you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

[soldiermedic76]

Yes it is almost entirely created by Hollywood and pulp westerns. I love L'Amour, and lesser Max Brand (never really got into Zane Grey) but they definitely helped feed into this myth.

[mad.casual]

If you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck

Again, the myth isn't so stupidly simple that you don't ever literally shoot anyone in the back any more than it is "you don't shoot anyone in a white hat". It's not like westerns are chocked full of heroic, honest marshalls and deputies who let the villains turn on them and gun them down.

It's rather wrongly interpretting Nietzche's "Whoever fights monsters/If you stare into the abyss..." as "Don't fight monsters and don't look at the abyss."

[Gray_Jay]

That certainly can be a problem. A lot of those Old West lawmen didn't get to die in bed. Policing in the Good Old Days was rife with things we'd be horrified to see now. I bring up Charles Askins's memoir from time to time here, as an example of how some old time lawmen approached the job. Though Askins was thought extreme even by his peers, IIRC.

Or look at how Bonnie and Clyde, or Dillinger, got apprehended. Those were hits, not attempts to arrest.

[soldiermedic76]

And a good portion of the lawmen had been outlaws themselves. Bass Reeves was offered his position after being arrested. The Earps often skirted the law. Hickock was no angel either.

[soldiermedic76]

And in the case of Billy the Kid and the regulators it was a case of one law enforcement agency fighting another.

[mad.casual]

I blame a bunch of bad TV and movie westerns for the staying power of that myth.

It's not Hollywood's fault Dillinger doesn't grasp things like context and can't tell fact from fiction.

Superman doesn't torture people or beat them up because he doesn't have to, Batman does. In the real world, Wild Bill got shot in the back of the head because he let a drunk quit to cover his losses and bought him breakfast.

[DRM]

no person should be shot in the back by the state.

That's a pretty fucking stupid statement.

Whatever the facts of this case are, it is sometimes perfectly appropriate for the state to shoot somebody in the back. For example, in an active shooter situation, or a hostage situation.

The question on police use of deadly force is simply "What threat did the person who was shot present to other people?" And that question isn't remotely answered by the determination that the person's back was turned to police.

[Dillinger]

>>That’s a pretty fucking stupid statement.

i don't write to please you. neither of the two recent famous shot-in-the-backs required shooting in the back. deadly force is required sure but not when someone's running away from Officer Trigger. go get him, copper. get the collar. due process and such.

[soldiermedic76]

No you don't have all the facts and made an emotional judgement and a blanket statement based upon your emotional response.

[soldiermedic76]

I can think of a thousand scenarios were shooting a fleeing suspect is justified. Especially as we don't know if he was fleeing or simply moving from one position of cover to another with the aim of firing at the cops. In that scenario his actions weren't running away but were definitely aggressive in nature.

[Gray_Jay]

You are incorrect on both, assuming you are speaking of Blake in Kenosha, and Brooks in Atlanta.

Blake should've been shot the second he pulled the knife. The cops hesitated---not hard to see why, lately---and only shot him when he appeared to either be reaching in a vehicle for another weapon, or to drive off. Neither was acceptable.

Brooks got shot because he took a Taser from the other officer, after wrestling with them and resisting arrest. He was running towards the street---where, considering it was a drive-through, had plenty of other vehicles he might have tried to carjack to facilitate his escape---and firing the Taser back towards the officers. Also a good shooting, were we not currently in ClownWorld. Fleeing. Violent. Armed. Felon.

Try again.

[Dillinger]

>>Try again.

i'm not here to convince you i'm good. this is an open forum.

[Gray_Jay]

If you want to continue being ignorant, I can't help you.

I can't reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into. We'll agree to disagree.

[soldiermedic76]

Yes his response is entirely emotional. Maybe the cops acted wrong in DC but we don't have the facts. And based upon almost all of these stories, the facts surely will at least partially contradict the hot take.

[DRM]

neither of the two recent famous shot-in-the-backs required shooting in the back

Yeah, see, that's a goalpost-shifting I already covered with "Whatever the facts of this case are," you sub-baboon moron.

You're the hydrocephalic who made the asinine absolute declaration "no person should be shot in the back by the state".

You of course are free to please yourself by posting whatever idiocy you like, of course. And I am free to please myself by pointing out that if the cops shot you, all they could be charged with is desecration of a corpse, because you're already brain-dead.

[mad.casual]

no person should be shot in the back by the state.

Would you be OK if they punched them in the back of the head or hit them with a baton while their back was turned? What about tackling them while their back was turned? Would that be OK? What if they do helmet first?

Once deadly force has been initiated, you don't just get to say, "OK, I turned my back, so you can stop now."

[Dillinger]

nobody needed to die, mad. bottom line. sorry.

[soldiermedic76]

Based upon what? Your incomplete knowledge of the facts and a knee jerk emotional response based upon lack of facts?

[soldiermedic76]

If you make a declarative statement on very limited facts, don't be surprised when people push back on it. And it isn't the bottom line, it is an opinion not a statement of fact.

[mad.casual]

"Nobody needed to die." is a correct answer unless the question is "What happens when you play stupid games?"

Nobody needs to die in order to drive a car off a cliff, but if you drive a car off a cliff, chances are someone's gonna die.

Nobody needs to die running out from behind a car at an officer *or an armed civilian* with a gun in your hand, but if you run out from behind a car at an officer *or an armed civilian* with a gun in your hand, chances are someone's gonna die.

[mad.casual]

Was he even shot in the back?

Nobody needed to die may be a correct answer but it's not the correct answer to any of my questions or any question pertinent to the shooting of Deon Kay. Nobody needed to die to end slavery either but lots of people would probably lynch you and maybe even justifiably (to others/in their own mind) for saying that.

[Dillinger]

also free Edward Snowden.

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Trump signed a memo today to restrict federal $ from going to "anarchist jurisdictions" - the memo cites Seattle, Portland, NYC & D.C.

All libertarians should lament their tax dollars no longer exported to those locations.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I would have added Minneapolis on there, too, but with those Iron Range mayors indicating that they aren't supporting Biden on this go-round, Trump has a legitimate chance now of flipping that state for the first time since Eisenhower. This is solely based on which states he thinks could go his way in the election.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The head-turning number in this new Fox poll

THE ONLY REAL THING REPORTED ON FAUX NEWS.

[Mother's lament]

Wow, Trump is down 5 points from Biden in Wisconsin.

This is supershocking because Wisconsin is usually a Republican lock.

[DRM]

So, where's Washington state's lawsuit against Mountain Dew? It's also clearly advertised to kids in ads that fail to disclose caffeine's addictive nature.

[Mother's lament]

Also, it contains very little dew and no mountain whatsoever.

[Abigail_Ava]

Google easily work and google pays me every hour and every week just $5K to $8K for doing online work from home. I am a universty student and I work n my part time just 2 to 3 hours a day easily from home. Now every one can earn extra cash for doing online home system and make a good life by just open this website and follow instructions on this page…Check my site.

[Idle Hands]

IF the dems with this strategy I think it's time to just give up.

[Idle Hands]

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1301517664465158145

"Perspective: The election will likely spark violence — and a constitutional crisis.

In every scenario except a Biden landslide, our simulation ended catastrophically."

They are now openly threatening the country.

[soldiermedic76]

And they basically admit, that for all their casitgation of the right, that the right is less likely to get violent if the vote goes against them than the left.

[Nardz]

Let us disabuse them of such notions

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"Vote the dementia patient or the country gets it!"

[Mother's lament]

That isn't a prophecy but a threat.
If Biden isn't decisively elected they'll destroy the US.

[Kitab Mimpi]

Hora umum.!

[damikesc]

"Doubts about democracy. A new Pew Research Center poll of Americans finds that "among the public overall, 68% say it is very important for the country that people are free to peacefully protest, down from 74% two years ago. In this case, the decline has come entirely among Republicans," Pew notes."

Perhaps labelling riots as peaceful protests makes one think that peaceful protests are less than good. Hard to say "peaceful protests are good" when people like ENB argue that arson is peaceful.

[Kavitaheart]

I just got paid 800Buck working off my laptop this month. And if you think that’s cool, my divorced friend has twin toddlers and made over 9k Buck her first month. It feels so good making so much money when other people have to work for so much less. This is what I do https://www.gadgetheart.com/

[mad.casual]

D.C. police fatally shot a young black man in the back as he was running away from them.

Or, you know, in the chest as he was running towards them. Do you think Reason advocated for bodycams as the solution to the unjust police-involved shootings that they figured it wold reveal what pieces of uninformed human garbage their writers actually are?

[Mother's lament]

The officer was way too quick on the trigger, but he definitely wasn't shot in the back.

Fuck you for lying, ENB.
Mendacious hackery like this is why people hate journalists even more than politicians and lawyers.

[Gray_Jay]

And I disagree with too quick on the trigger. The guy had the gun in his right hand as he exited the vehicle. Good use of backstop by the officer, as well as being really restrained with his shots.

The suspect doesn't need to point the gun at the officers in that situation to make it an imminent threat of deadly force.

[mad.casual]

The officer was way too quick on the trigger, but he definitely wasn’t shot in the back.

I'll agree that he was quick. Of all the potential outcomes of him waiting to pull the trigger, I'm unconvinced it was too quick. Either way, it's pretty clear this wasn't a Philando Castille situation. Did they riot when Philando was shot? I'm fairly certain they didn't burn shit down.

[Jason A]

This was being reported on Drudge as shot in back and unarmed until the PD released the body cam video. Media = lying sacks of shit.

[Gray_Jay]

Gun in his right hand when he got shot. Seriously, what the fuck ENB?

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[Neptus67]

What starts as an effort to protect the vulnerable inevitably becomes a tool of another female sex hysteria.

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