Protests

Kenosha Doesn't Have To Be a Vision of America's Future

Neither does Portland. But the fact that the violence is continuous and seems to be escalating is cause for concern.

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Protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin against the shooting by police of Jacob Blake degenerated into lethal violence Tuesday night, with two dead and one injured. Who did what last night is still unclear, though a suspect is in custody.

While we'll learn more details, what's unlikely to change is the chaos in the streets, with multiple hard-to-identify factions and unaffiliated individuals joining up in loose alliances or squaring off in volatile confrontations. That's the face of modern social unrest, and a sight with which we'll become very familiar if the situation in this country continues to spiral out of control.

"Two people were killed and a third injured in a shooting at a used car lot on the corner of Sheridan Road and 63rd Street overnight Wednesday by a man armed with an AR-15-style rifle," Kenosha News reports. "The man, who was white, was seen on social media with a group of armed men described online as 'militia' who were at a small used car lot on the northwest corner of Sheridan Road and 63rd Street."

"Militia" could mean anything at this stage, from local people defending businesses to organized groups from elsewhere participating in the scrum. For what it's worth, at least one Boogaloo Boys group disavows any connection to the shooter.

But there are any number of possible participants. In Portland, Proud Boys and antifa (and others) tangled over the weekend while police pulled back. In communities around the country, residents and business owners have faced-off against protesters and sometimes shot looters. And lone individuals—advocating police reform, or else supportive of cops, or just wanting to see shit burn—have shown up to participate in protests or to just stir the pot.

That's all too common a pattern, and an unpleasant indicator of where the whole country could be headed if the growing political and racial tensions of recent years follow the path on which the people of Kenosha, Portland, and elsewhere are already walking.

In terms of where those tensions are taking us, the possibility of domestic strife as serious as a second Civil War has been a topic of conversation in recent years—sometimes mockingly (#secondcivilwarletters, anybody?)—but other times more seriously. Three years ago, Thomas E. Ricks scared the hell out of a lot of people when he casually asked "smart national security thinkers" their spitball estimates of the near-term chance of a second civil war and came up with an average estimate of "about 35 percent" for a piece in Foreign Policy.

Most Civil War 2 discussions dwell on a red states vs. blue states battle, as if clear geographical divisions and well-defined sides are a standard feature of civil wars. But social unrest in the modern world is usually messier.

"The war in Bosnia and Herzegovina was a battle between three factions—the Bosnian Muslims, Croats (Catholic) and Serbs (predominately Orthodox Christian)," the U.S. Army notes of the experience of Hajrudin Djedovic, who left the Yugoslav Army in 1992 as that country was falling apart to fight for Bosnia and Herzegovina. "It was strange fighting against people he had served with only a few years earlier, he said. One day, they are neighbors and friends. The next day—they attacked his village, killed his friends and members of his family."

Countries don't have to collapse for chaos to reign. From the late 1960s through the early 1980s, Italy muddled through the anni di piombo—years of lead. The Economist summarizes the confusion of that time, which still cast a shadow over Italians' lives:

Marxist extremists, notably the Red Brigades, began kidnapping and assassinating 'anti-worker' officials: policemen, judges, journalists. Their right-wing opponents bombed civilians to 'drown democracy under a mountain of corpses'. Both sides hoped to weaken the state and to spark revolution or a military takeover. Members of the Italian secret service nudged things along, working with neo-fascist killers to frame the left.

For a taste of the uncertainty of a country plagued by factional violence, it's worth seeing the 2014 movie '71. Set in Belfast at the start of "The Troubles," it follows an accidentally stranded British soldier whose fate depends on the loyalties of the neighborhoods through which he passes, and the inclinations of whichever paramilitary has him at its mercy— not just unionist or nationalist, but specific factions thereof.

The U.S. as a whole is not yet immersed in its own version of "The Troubles" or the "years of lead," let alone a Balkan-style civil war. But we're not as far from that state as we were six months ago, let alone a decade ago.

We started this year with nearly six in 10 Americans believing that political tensions in this election year would lead to protests and rioting, according to Ipsos polling. The source of those fears is obvious, given the contempt in which the country's major political factions hold each other. Fifty-five percent of Republicans and 44 percent of Democrats say the party opposing their own is "not just worse for politics—they are downright evil," according to a 2019 YouGov survey. As a result of those hostilities, just over 20 percent of both Democratic and Republican respondents believe violence is at least somewhat justified if their side loses the election, according to the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group.

To that political tension, we've added pandemic-fueled panic and lockdown orders that have crippled the economy and increased stress. We've also seen an eruption of long-simmering resentment over police treatment of civilians—especially African-Americans. The killing of George Floyd brought that anger against law enforcement abuses to a head, and it continues to this day.

The result has been protests, which have all-too-often morphed into violence in the streets in multiple cities. That violence features antifa, Proud Boys, Black Lives Matter, Boogaloo Boys, neighborhood watches, and other factions and individuals of every and no ideological flavor. They interact in various shades of support, conditional alliance, and outright opposition—sometimes resulting in bloodshed.

And we haven't even arrived at Election Day, which had Americans so on-edge at the beginning of the year.

Kenosha doesn't have to be a vision of America's future. Neither does Portland. But the fact that the violence is continuous and seems to be escalating is cause for concern. To avoid the spread of that conflict, we're going to have to find a way to live with each other, or to leave each other alone. If we don't, the violent social unrest that plagues some of our communities will become a feature of many more.

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  1. Riots have a downside? Maybe we should have heard something about that for the past few months, instead of waiting until the polling numbers said this was looking bad for Dems.

    1. https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1298550273921691653

      Last night
      @donlemon
      called for the rioting to end, “because it’s showing up in the polling.”

      What polling? The media polling after the DNC Convention that was never released over the weekend.

      Yes, folks, it exists. You’re just not allowed to see it.

      1. It’s out. Trump +4. for the bump.

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        2. Wait, the DNC held a convention and Trumps numbers went up. Oh shit, that’s golden.

          1. It is true.

            https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trump-pops-to-52-best-job-approval-rating-on-record-up-with-blacks-even-democrats

            Trump’s approval rating went to 52% this week, an all time high for him. And that poll is Zogby, which has generally not been a very pro Trump poll.

            1. John, Zogby is considered an extreme outlier and pro-Trump. RCP average has Biden +8 even with a Rasmussen thrown in.

              It’s no business of mine that you get all of your information from the most biased sources you can cherry pick. Just don’t make it my business by joining any hair-pulling hysteria when Trump loses because you were surprised.

              1. BWAHAHA

                1. This guy gets it.

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              2. The RCP average includes old polls and is a lagging indicator you fucking half wit. And it is clear that the riots are helping Trump. Otherwise, the Democrats wouldn’t be suddenly condemning them after months of cheering them on./

                Tony you are just setting yourself up for more pain and disappointment when Trump wins again. Why don’t you save yourself some trouble and get some mental health help and start dealing with it now?

                1. I am starting to think all the tension in America today just spill-over from the decade-long unresolved sexual tension between John and Tony.

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                2. If Biden wins, you stop watching FOX News, deal?

                  I really care about you John and I would like to see you free yourself of the Republican propaganda machine. Life is so much fuller when you aren’t angry at brown people all the time and kept that way so plutocrats can steal your money while you’re distracted.

                  1. Deal, if you stop watching MSNBC if it goes the other way (since I don’t watch FNC, not a huge sacrifice on my part).

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                  2. I don’t watch cable news. Stop assume I am as stupid as you are

                    1. You are a rightwing internet guy, I know.

              3. “Just don’t make it my business by joining any hair-pulling hysteria when Trump loses because you were surprised.”

                How many lumens does Tony project with? I guess 2016 was so traumatic he’s blocked it from his memory.

              4. Man, I swear I’ve heard this exact same conversation before except with somebody else in place of Biden. Deja Vu I guess.

              5. Don’t worry, Tony. Biden is not going to concede his loss in November no matter what the circumstances. Hillary has spoken, and you don’t want to get on her bad side or she will release the flying monkeys.

            2. Ouch.

              (Rubs crystal ball) All right, how many of chemjeff and hihn’s alter egos can we get in the thread to shill, obfuscate, and just plain seagull all over the place?

            3. It’s probably more Portland than anything else. That, and the combination of media lies. They spent weeks clutching pearls over secret police and Trump’s “private army.” Now that the feds have left Portland, nobody is still talking about that but there’s still rioting.

              The inability of Portland to actually arrest or prosecute the losers is proving very costly for Democrats.

              1. And they’re not going to be able to put the cat back in the bag either.

                They let these fuckers loose, and refused to hold them accountable for 3 straight months of rampaging and destroying cities. They can’t unring the bell. Just how did they think this plan would work out?

                1. Yeah, I very much doubt they can shut Antifa/BLM off like a light switch.

                  Though, if they can, that’s pretty much proof positive they turned them on in the first place, and they really are taking orders from the DNC.

          2. Yup, you can see it even in 538’s ‘adjusted’ numbers. The DNC convention caused a big bump… For Trump!

            Though I think the rioting is causing a lot of that.

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      2. I don’t always agree with Bill Maher but he was right when he said all the Dems need to do to win POTUS 2020 is to be less crazy than Trump. Joking about taking bleach to cure COVID might seem crazy but serious suggestions from the Dems to defund the police, forgive all college debt, and have 50%+ total federal income tax rates sound a whole lot crazier to me than anything Trump has said.

        1. Especially since Trump didn’t actually suggest drinking bleach.

      3. The private polling has to be in the absolute toilet for Lemon to be this hysterical.

        Guys like him in the media have a direct line to the DNC leadership structure, especially with him being locked arm-in-arm with Chris Cuomo on CNN. If he’s saying, on air, that his party is getting hammered on this, then you know it’s really bad.

        1. Between the riots and the RNC, the left is getting crushed.
          They’re frantic.
          Now they got the NBA, via certain NBA players, to cancel all of today’s playoff games. Because justice or something

          1. The hilarious part is that literally no one except a few die-hards are going to give a shit about the playoff games, because they were already such a joyless thing to watch. The ratings are the worst they’ve been in years, probably since they had to do tape-delays of these games that were shown at 11 pm in the mid-late 70s.

            Between COVID and the virtue-signaling, we could very well see a medium-term crippling of the professional sports industry (and that includes NCAA football and basketball, which are practically semi-pro leagues to begin with) after this year. It won’t last forever because people are a naturally competitive species and will want teams to cheer for as a distraction, but they’ll start back up in a very different form than we’ve known for the last 40 years or so, when the various hype machines started rolling.

            1. The NHL hasn’t done a half-bad job with their playoffs, but the format will not work past this season’s Stanley Cup. The “bubble” concept only works for this playoff, but when they have a regular-season it will never work; these guys want to be with their families, and the logistics will be impossible.

              1. This lockdown bullshit does not last much past the elections.

            2. If true it would cripple the main stream news even more. The #1 reason people have cable is for sport. People stop watching sports and that sweet sweet cash stop flowing towards the news channels too.

            3. With the NBA it is hard to get fan support if the players no not give a shit.

              1. Wuhan Lebron cares deeply.

              2. My GF put it fairly succinctly: “An overpaid group of young men, who mostly hate your guts, want you to watch them do something for two plus hours.”

                Fuck ’em. I’ve followed sports most of my conscious life, played fantasy football and basketball, played sports in HS: and I don’t think anything about professional athletics anymore. Except to idly wish they all went away.

                1. We still have high school football in my area. I’ll cheer on my son’s team (and junior high football so I can cheer on both my sons). Thank God for Friday night lights.

                  1. That is awesome. You have a connection, and even though it starts to become a job at that age, your young men should learn a lot of valuable lessons from the experience.

                    The pros or college, OTOH? Terrible. No slight to any of you that still like them. Just don’t ask me for any money to support it.

                    1. You want to see a real high speed game, my sons’ leagues are 8 man. We also have a 6 man league. That shit makes arena football look like old people mall walking.

                2. Watch UFC..the fighters are not woke and Dana White certainly isn’t. F the NBA and MLB and NFL. Stipe! Khabib…Connor…Jorge…now that is real sport…JOe Rogan baby…Eddie Bravo….DC

                  1. Hell, isn’t Stipe — their World Heavyweight Champion — still a part-time firefighter?

                3. I’ve never personally understood why anybody watched professional sports. Except women’s beach volleyball, I totally get that.

            4. The hilarious part is that literally no one except a few die-hards are going to give a shit about the playoff games, because they were already such a joyless thing to watch. The ratings are the worst they’ve been in years, probably since they had to do tape-delays of these games that were shown at 11 pm in the mid-late 70s.

              No. One of the hilarious parts is that the utterly spoiled socialist brats like Kaiser James are rather literally taking their ball and going home.

              Imagine putting in all the hard work to win all the titles and to be remembered as the spokesperson that killed one of America’s most beloved pastimes.

              Now imagine being the guy making the league minimum and watching Kaiser James do it.

              Now imagine the legion of inner city Jr. High kids who are flunking math but are already playing above the rim.

              Now finally, circle back around to Kaiser James and think about how obnoxiously self-righteous you are to think you’re sticking it to the cops and all the institutional racists/white supremacists who support them.

              The other hilarious part is that the NBA has been murdering itself to cater to China and this BLM and anti-police nonsense gets zero traction in mainland China. The best they can possibly hope for is that the average Chinese fan figures they don’t want to play. The likely outcome is that they’ll be the butt of many CCP-inspired jokes about spoiled bourgeois capitalists.

              1. National Baizuo Association

            5. Sports are an abstraction of war, and their place is being taken by the real thing these days

    2. “The rioting has to stop… it’s showing up in the polling, it’s showing up in focus groups.” Don Lemon
      https://twitter.com/JohnWMarxII/status/1298596666434441217

      1. What an utterly despicable piece of shit.

        Rioting and destruction is fine, so long as it doesn’t hurt our political chances.

        Fuck you, Don Lemon. May you choke on a massive bag of dicks.

        1. No shit.

          Burn it all down!!!! Destroy businesses and homes regardless of who owns them!!!! Pull anyone driving by in their car out and beat them mercilessly!!!! Hold on, everybody there’s a moral problem with this behavior. It’s going to cost us elections.

        2. “Fuck you, Don Lemon. May you choke on a massive bag of dicks.”

          That is what Don calls “Friday.”

          1. Or Anderson Cooper. If it’s (a) Good Friday.

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  2. So there’s a clip going ’round of Don Lemon talking to Chris Cuomo, where Lemon (to his credit) is starting to get nervous that the “peaceful protest” narrative is starting to crack and actually hurt Democrats. He also notes that the “defund the police” narrative appears to be a far-left activist trope that isn’t popular with about 80% of black people who live in the poorer, high-crime neighborhoods.

    1. See above

      1. I barely read the articles, now you want me to read the comments too?

        1. You’re doing it wrong

            1. ….rimshot

    2. where Lemon (to his credit) is starting to get nervous that the “peaceful protest” narrative is starting to crack and actually hurt Democrats

      I don’t think only worrying about mass lawlessness, destruction and some deaths when it starts to look bad for your side politically is a reason to give “credit”.

  3. The violence escalates because there’s no consequences. People have seen that the rioters, even if you can arrest them, will have their charges dropped by the DA and they’ll be out the next night continuing to burn and loot. If they don’t drop charges, they at least let them go on no bail so the end result in the same.

    Average people do not have the means to arrest these rioters and send them to trial, only the state has that authority. What average people have are firearms. In the absence of the state using the authority we’ve granted them, average people are left to handle the problem themselves with the means they have available to them.

    If the state wishes for the violence to stop it merely has to start doing the job we entrusted it with. We’re going to arrive at order one way or another, it can happen with handcuffs or it can happen with AR-15s, that’s up to the state.

    1. That’s too logical for pols and partisans to understand.

      More hyperbole and heated rhetoric necessary.

    2. As I pointed out earlier, this is what “community policing” is actually like when the actual law enforcement agencies can’t, or won’t, do the job they’re paid to do. And one of those responsibilities is making sure that rioters don’t burn communities to the ground because “DEY GOTZ INSHURUNTZ!” Insurance isn’t going to cover a mob committing arson and destroying everything you’ve sacrificed to build. They’ll say “sorry, but we can’t pay out on something like that.” Especially when Antifa and BLM are fucking trucking in people from outside these communities and dropping off pallets of bricks for the rioters to throw.

      So what you’re going to see outside these deep blue urban Calhoun rat experiments are ordinary citizens showing why “I need an AR-15,” and people are going to get shot. Eventually, the city leadership, if they’re like the Mayor of Kenosha, will have to either step up and tell the cops “bear down on these fuckers so they know rioting won’t be tolerated,” or they’re going to be looking into the face of a recall, at best, or the barrel of a gun, at worst, as the community hashes out what needs to be done to keep themselves and their neighborhoods safe.

      And Antifa and BLM might very well come armed as well. At that point, the Governor has to either call out the National Guard to restore order, or sit back and watch helplessly as his citizens shoot it out with a bunch of low-life tankie scum.

      1. It doesn’t help when your Governor, Lt. governor and the AG (in charge of the actual investigation) condemns the cops before they even have the facts.

    3. Concise. I like it.

  4. It will stop as more people start shooting at the antifa/blm infestations

    1. It is not like anyone is going out hunting for leftists. If leftists are shot it is because they are out rioting and looting. Stop rioting and looting and no one is going to get shot.

      1. What about the first amendment right to burn down a mattress store?

        1. Depends. How does the mattress store feel about gay weddings?

        2. bedbugs. national security.

          1. Commerce clause

      2. So funny.

        http://twitter.com/HotepJesus/status/1298705036734799872?s=19

        “Shoot me, n*gga! Shoot me!”
        (For those who don’t click the link, that was said by a white guy and directed at other white guys)

        1. @Nardz
          I’m pretty sure that’s the guy that got iced.

          Stupid games: Stupid prizes.

          1. And blue ball cap & hoodie standing right beside him is the other DOA.

        2. As the saying goes, be careful what you ask for because you might get it.

      3. “It is not like anyone is going out hunting for leftists.”

        Yet.

        This shit needs to stop.

  5. The violence only exists because Democratic Mayors and governors decided they would allow leftists to riot. This isn’t Bosnia or Northern Ireland where two sides are equally trying to exterminate the other;. There are no right wing mobs rioting or trying to exterminate the left. There are leftwing mobs being allowed to burn loot and murder by local authorities and now predictably local communities banding together to defend themselves and their property where the government refuses to do so.

    This article is a new low for reason false equivalency. For years all we have ever heard from Libertarians is how the government isn’t needed to provide security and it is better if people and communities do it themselves. Well the community in Wisconsin did just that and reason has kittens lumping them in with the leftist criminals who came there to kill them and destroy their homes and businesses. Fuck you reason.

    Kenosha doesn’t have to be the future as long as Democratic mayors and governors are willing to step up and enforce the law so the local community doesn’t have to. If not, then the future is going to be property owners doing the job of the police by shooting looters and rioters.

    Lastly, it is more than a bit revealing that reason never gave a shit about violence as leftist mobs terrorized and murdered people for months. Then the moment people starting fighting back and a couple of leftist thugs get shot in Kenosha suddenly reason is all about ending the violence. It is pathetic.

    1. It’s only violent when you ask someone to please not burn down your house.

      1. “It’s only violent when you ask someone to please not burn down your house.”

        No, Silence is Violence!
        But yes obviously that was Hate speech so Violent.

    2. Keep in mind that had an article that was basically a eulogy for Garrett Foster, who threatened with his rifle what turned out to be an active-duty soldier carrying a pistol, because he thought these folks would “be too pussy to do anything.”

      Same thing happened with that dumb wigger that got shot in the had last night–“SHOOT ME NIGGA! SHOOT ME NIGGA!” Well, you got what you wanted.

      Fuck around and find out, Antifa, because outside your Cluster-B urban hives, there are people that will legitimately kill you if you decide to do “direct action” in places that you don’t live and have no business going to, if they think their lives, family, and property are in danger. And it won’t matter if the state ultimately charges them with murder, because they’re going to eventually come to the conclusion that, “If I’m going out, I’m taking 5-10 of these fuckers with me.”

      1. I was really hoping Garrett Foster was our own chemjeff.

        Sadly, it appears he was not

    3. John…Today’s Reason has morphed into the Pravda of old. Sad to see.

    4. “There are no right wing mobs rioting or trying to exterminate the left.”

      Yet. It has to be said, “yet”. If this shit is still going on next year, maybe worse after a Trump win, eventually there will be.

      We had a BLM protest just down the street, (I live in a suburb of Greenville.) and it was relatively sedate. I thought at first they were doing a charity car wash, until I read the signs.

      Let them try rioting here, though, and even my black neighbors would gladly shoot them.

  6. Totally peaceful.

  7. I know the guy got shot in the head, but it is no big deal, insurance will cover it.

    1. If he likes his doctor he gets to keep his doctor.

    2. A 360-degree, no-scope, headshot of a comment if there ever was one.

      1. I wish I could take credit for it. It has been floating around the internet all day. It is absolutely perfect

    3. I’m surprised the vacuum that existed between his ears didn’t just cause massive problems with the bullet’s physics.

      1. That was the sad humor of all those first responders yelling to “put pressure on it.”

        It was a closed head injury from a high velocity bullet. Pressure was the problem. An open cranium wound would have more likely been survivable. But with a closed vault when the brain starts to swell it has no place to expand, so instead it pushes down on the brain stem and stops basic metabolic functions like breathing and heartbeat.

        In such cases about the only thing that will save you is cutting a hole in the cranium. But I would not recommend it as I doubt good Samaritan laws would cover such an extreme effort.

  8. Proud Boys and antifa

    So elusive and nonexistent that the proper noun that is their name is really more of an adjective.

  9. ‘Every Angle + Timeline of Kyle Rittenhouse Kenosha Riot Shooting’

    https://youtu.be/rdMTghlrFiw

    Best vids and breakdown I’ve seen so far.

    1. Finally able to watch. Self defense. 100% even in non stand your ground states that is a valid shooting.

    2. We don’t know what happened before but this was clearly self defense. As I understand it this kid has been charged with first degree murder. Gonna be a tough sell if I’m on the jury unless he killed someone before these idiots decided to chase him down and attack him.

      1. You will never be on that jury. Assuming it ever goes to trial, though the process is the punishment in cases like these.

        I hope it doesn’t bankrupt the young man.

      2. “Gonna be a tough sell if I’m on the jury unless he killed someone before these idiots decided to chase him down and attack him.”

        He was being chased into a car lot by a guy, turned and shot him. Then got on the phone, where he can be heard saying he killed someone (which he didn’t, it looked like a grazing wound to the head) then a crowd approaches him and someone yells get him, then he ran towards the police line. That’s when he trips and is attacked and shoots 3 other people (one who was killed).

        1. I thought it looked like a graze too, but apparently not – that scumbag is dead.

          1. High velocity graze wounds are really bad news. Saw a guy get cut on the top of his skull by a boat prop. He was telling everyone he was fine, made it up into the boat, then slumped over and was gone.

  10. Oh my, the media class must have finally realized that the riots aren’t polling well. Now they’re in the awkward position of having to pivot on a narrative they’ve been vigorously pushing for three months.

    1. To clarify, I’m specifically talking about the headline and subheading (is that what it’s called?). I don’t think I need to read the article.

    2. With the lone exception of a couple of Nancy Rommelman first hand reports, reason has been ignoring and excusing the riots for months. Now suddenly they decide they are a problem. Could they be more transparent?

      1. Not just transparent but, reporting-wise, morally culpable/irresponsible.

        Not to get too Godwin-y but imagine dismissing the charges against Goebbels because he was just a reporter exercising his free speech rights.

    3. They won’t be able to put this cat back in the bag. The media can denounce it all they want, but it’s pretty clear that the “protestors” won’t give a single flying fuck about Team Blue polls or the media pleas. It’s been going on for 3 months. It’s not going to stop because some people ask them to. It’s going to take stepped up violence by states and cities to do it, and I don’t think they have the balls.

      1. I think the play is to distance the Democrats from the riots they supported for three months, so they can say “violent extremists that we have nothing to do with and Trump is failing to rein them in!”.

        1. They are already trying that narrative. Tony, MTrueman and several of our trolls who just regurgitate DNC talking points have already started using this trope. And some on the media have as well. It started about the time Harris was named VP pick.

          1. Blame everything on Trump. You hardly need the DNC to understand that. It’s been going on a lot longer than Harris appeared on the stage.

            1. Speaker Pelisi condemmed Trump for sending DHS agents to protect s federal courthouse.

              1. She’s from the opposition. It’s her duty to oppose.

                1. In a litany of moronic statements you have just topped all your other efforts.

                  Trump recently lead a citizenship ceremony, was it her duty to oppose that as well?

                  1. Do you really expect the speaker to support Trump? This is naive in the extreme. The purpose of opposition is to oppose. If Trump wants support, he should be looking to his own party which seems to be deserting him in droves.

    4. Where dod they get the idea that the riots polled well in the first place?

      1. From the echo chamber

  11. “Who did what last night is still unclear, though a suspect is in custody.”

    No, it’s pretty clear – unless you’re a willfully blind and psychotic leftist.
    Tuccilli is a joke or a liar.
    Maybe both.

    1. There is a video all over the internet of the mob chasing the guy and the victim jumping on top of him and getting shot. He knows exactly what happened. If it had been anything but clear self defense, Turcille would have no problem condemning the shooter. Since it is, he suddenly doesn’t know what happened. What a lying piece of shit.

      1. The one instance where the shooter could get convicted is the wigger he shot, and that’s mainly because, for now, there’s no evidence he was in direct danger when he shot him. The wigger was busting up property; if it comes out that he lunged at the shooter, then the most he might get is manslaughter, because he clearly was about to get lynched by the Antifarts if he hadn’t opened up on them.

        1. Even the first one looks like justified. He was attempting to leave, someone chased him. Then after stopping that threat he gets chased again and stops two more.

          Idiot to be there in the first place of course.
          First rule of gun fighting is don’t put yourself in a position to be in a gunfight.

          1. The guy is 17 years old. He should have been sleeping so he could get ready to go to school the next day, not playing soldier during a riot. Oh, right, we’ve locked down the schools because people are afraid kids will catch the coof and bring it home to kill grandma.

            I’m not sure whether to slap him for being young and dumb, or congratulate him on his keen marksmanship skills, because they probably saved his life.

            1. “I’m not sure whether to slap him for being young and dumb, or congratulate him on his keen marksmanship skills, because they probably saved his life.”

              Slap him, then congratulate him, then slap him again

              1. “Don’t EVER fucking do that again… let me buy you a beer.”

                1. For a minor?

                  1. Fuck the 21 drinking age. If we legalize marijuana, which I support, we also need to abolish the stupid drinking age.

                  2. Yes, as long as he’s put his rifle away. Alcohol and guns don’t mix.

                  3. Dude put down 2 Marxists permanently, and escaped a psychotic mob trying to kill him on the middle of a riot – and avoided injuring anybody but the pieces of trash who were attacking him.
                    F the drinking age, that MAN deserves a beer

                    1. Thirded.

            2. Give him a USMC enlistment contract?

              1. I don’t know, from my marine vet BIL and from what I’ve read the Department of the Navy (incl has gone full woketard since 2009. The Army on the other hand tried that, found out it made shitty soldiers, and went back to the old break them down and build them back up training style, and we could give a flying fuck about your feelings.

                1. Laughs in women being hand-held through Ranger School and SFAS.

                  1. Ouch!!

              2. I was actually going to put that instead of the second slap, let some USMC DIs slap him around a bit lol

          2. I’m not seeing this shared as widely but the second guy had drawn a pistol before lunging at him and taking one in the arm.
            Clear up close photographs showing him bleeding sitting on the sidewalk with a glock in his hand, and grainier pics during the moment of engagement clearly showing him with gun in hand as he lunges towards Rittenhouse. Too lazy to comb through twitter looking for them.
            Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

            1. The commie “medic” had his gun out and was about to level it when the kid unloaded on the skateboard commie then swung the muzzle over.
              Commie “medic” put his hands up in surrender, then tried to shoot the kid when the kid’s attention had been drawn by someone else.
              That’s what got him shot

        2. The wigger was busting up property; if it comes out that he lunged at the shooter, then the most he might get is manslaughter, because he clearly was about to get lynched by the Antifarts if he hadn’t opened up on them.

          No, there’s footage of him being chased and confronted by the wigger. The wigger chases him the length of the parking lot while throwing objects and effectively corners him between two parked cars. Two shots are fired, it’s presumable they didn’t connect because the wigger is heard shouting and continues to advance. A subsequent four shots puts the wigger on the Kenosha County Morgue’s client list. In my not-a-lawyer opinion: outside posibility for a manslaughter conviction but, from the chase to the advance after being shot (at), to charge him with murder is just asking to get pummeled by a claim of self-defense.

          1. I hadn’t seen that first part; if he has a good defense attorney, he’s probably getting off then on self-defense throughout the entire encounter, especially if he was getting chased despite carrying a fucking rifle.

            One of the guys that he shot actually had a gun too, but swung it at him like a spaz instead of shooting him. You can tell these leftist LARPers have never handled a gun in their lives.

            1. Yeah on both issues, IMO, if there’s even one service member on the jury he’s walking. The guy retreated and exercised decent muzzle control/trigger discipline the whole time. Without hearing arguments, I could readily be convinced that the first two shots at the wigger were warning shots. When the last guy with a gun hesitated, so did the teen. It wasn’t until he started to bring the gun around that the teen put a bullet in him.

              I’m a little befuddled* by what happened next, because more than one article from more than one outlet makes it seem like there was a manhunt but there’s footage of what appears to be the exact same guy effectively surrendering to the police at what appears to be a couple hundred feet from where he pulled the trigger.

              *A generous term for “Unable to conclusively determine whether I was handed misinformation or outright lies.”

              1. A good rule of thumb here (and for life in general) is “don’t trust the media on anything coming out of this.”

                There’s plenty of places where videos show what actually happened, not what the deceitful media is trying to push as a narrative.

              2. Yeah go to any of the veteran sites I belong to on Facebook, this kid is already a hero.

              3. Reminds me of a youtube video a couple years ago of one of the John Brown groups trying to act all tactical and fucking it up. I think it was in Phoenix.

                  1. I love when they are doing their mass shooting and it looks kikeb70% of the rounds are hitting short at targets less than a 100 m away.

                    1. They are at least getting out there, and familiarizing themselves with things. I’ll bet they’ve others as well, who aren’t letting themselves be videoed.

                      If this does turn into a Bleedin Kansas, foreign help is coming in short order. You think the Russians, Chinese, or Iranians don’t have SF, willing and able to be ‘armed schoolteachers’ for a bloc of nascent guerrillas?

                    2. *So* much staged and obnoxious fuckery it’s hard to take seriously. It’s almost like a parody of the bikini + uzi gun porn from the 80s.

                      The I don’t even know what to call the ammo dump that they all did twice, poorly. The targets were so close and some of the “shots” (I’m not entirely convinced fireworks weren’t used) were so far off that it would seem an insult to call it a ‘mad minute’. Technically, it was on par with something like a “Predator Reenactment Drill” but even that makes it seem way cooler than it actually was.

        3. The video piecing together all known footage shows the shooter ran away twice – first guy chased and threw things at him (got shot). Then he ran away when a mob started forming and was then attacked by three guys (2 of them shot). No reports of him shooting or shooting at someone prior to being chased by guy #1.

          Clear self-defense, although someone pointed out on another thread that the shooter is only 17 so not allowed to open carry. Prosecutor could leverage that for something.

          1. I wonder if someone has a GoFundMe set up for him?

            1. If it isn’t it soon will be. And based on previous somewhat similar past cases, he’ll have enough money to hire any lawyer he wants in short order.

              1. Lin Wood has already volunteered his services

                1. GoFundMe just cancelled his fundraisers. There is one still up for the guy he headshot, though. Claimed they don’t do them for criminals, despite having a few still extant for people also accused of crimes.

                  The rot is deep.

          2. The open carry law in Wisconsin only applies to pistols, long arms are exempted. Wisconsin is a very strong pro-hunting state and the age to hunt is 12. Therefore they exempted long arms.

            1. Yeah, but most states with such Minor in Possession laws also include clauses about possessing a valid hunting license or being immediately engaged in training/sport shooting, etc.

              I’ve looked, and didn’t see any, but those sorts of things could be scattered throughout the law, so he still could have some problems.

    2. “Unclear” is a huge improvement over praising the Austin sped.

      1. Progress.

    3. “Tuccilli is a joke or a liar.”

      DNC waterboy.

  12. Mush. Tuccile plays worse than moral equivalence, because he lies about the Proud Boys and Boogaloo Boys, who have not burned down any buildings, or attacked any innocents. (The Boogaloo Boys are a completely irrelevant talking point of leftwing conspiracy theorists.)
    As for Italy during the period of the Red Army Faction, I don’t recall any rightwing slaughter. It was all leftwingers doing the killing.
    Reading J.D. Tuccile is worse than reading nothing at all.

    1. “As for Italy during the period of the Red Army Faction, I don’t recall any rightwing slaughter”

      Bologna massacre.

  13. Ahhh…. I do recall PJ O’Rourke saying:

    “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”

    And then overlay this with the world of non-consequences that most college kids live within….. Touché, trigger warning has an entirely new meaning in real life!

    Of course, my apologies. But ’tis not an academic exercise anymore!

    1. That’s fair. Now let’s make it complete by describing conservatism. At the heart of the conservativism is a bitter old man, who’s life did not go as planned, and whose jeremiads about the changing culture abandoning the strong moral principles held by people in his youth is rooted in his longing for the feeling of hope and potential that drove him during his teenage years.

      1. Remember everyone. Chipper doesn’t choose sides.

        1. No, I balance out the sides. I said I agree with the assessment of liberals, but I guess your brain just skipped over that part.

          1. Where is the balance the other way? Maybe lost some of it. I’m sure it is all over these threads here at Reason.

        2. Eunuch being eunuch

        3. The moth does not choose the flame.

  14. J.D.
    You talk about Italy, Bosnia, Portland and Kenosha. Do you know what they all had in common? The former Soviet Union. That’s right Communism. You can trace the linage in all of them back to the Cold War. Ever hear of “The 45 Communist Goals As Read Into The Congressional Record, 1963”? Here’s a link. https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/watchwomanonthewall/2011/04/the-45-communist-goals-as-read-into-the-congressional-record-1963.html
    If you read them, you can see that they are practically the Democratic Party Platform. Some of them also show how we got here. Tail Gunner Joe has to be laughing his ass off right now. BY the way I was in Italy during some of that. Our State Department has some ways of looking at things that don’t align with the best interests of the Country. It is institutional. That’s why I don’t blame Hilary for Bengazi. Those views got some people killed during that Italy thing. They came pretty close to getting me killed.

    1. Intriguing…..

      REED College ‘Unofficial’ Motto: “Communism, Atheism, Free Love!”

      Cheers Mate

      1. Reed, when Eugene wasn’t weird enough for you.

    2. Didn’t the head of the American Communist party say something that the party is no longer needed because the Democrats have adopted their platform, during the Truman administration?

      1. Can’t verify it but Politfact says no evidence this happened, Snopes says false, again because no evidence but several others report it did happen. And it was 1944, so FDR not Truman.

  15. To avoid the spread of that conflict, we’re going to have to find a way to live with each other, or to leave each other alone.

    And that’s the conflict in a nutshell – half of us want to force us all to live together and half of us want to be left the fuck alone. I’m fine with “you leave me alone, I’ll leave you alone”, but the commies won’t let it be, you have to shoot ’em in the head in order to get them to leave you alone.

  16. I have no plans to get along with communists, socialists, blm, antifa, or any other left wing cause or group.

    They are the cause of our societies ills at the moment reflected in the new Marxist democrat party.

    If they want to stand down good but otherwise I want the police and military removing them – for their own safety of course.

    But no they will not take over anywhere anytime. They must submit.

    1. If they want to stand down good but otherwise I want the police and military removing them

      To concentration camps, as I recall.

      1. They could use a good delousing.

      2. That’s your leftist policies (concentration camps), combined with letting your brownshirts beat up people freely

        Normal Americans just want people who actually commit violence to be locked up.

        1. Where have I advocated for concentration camps? Cause Art was doing that just yesterday. Guess he’s a lefty, right?

          1. You spew Marxist tropes, so technically I suppose you advocate for gulags.

            1. Nope, not a Marxist, but feel free to provide evidence otherwise. I’ve voted Republican and Libertarian my whole life, actually. But don’t let that stop you from defending a guy who literally advocated concentration camps for protesters yesterday. Dumbass.

              1. Citation?

                1. Art’s a Righty spoof piece, SM, like some of the Lefty trolls we have here.

                  I’ve no doubt he advocated throwing BLM protesters into concentration camps. I understand the impulse.

                  I just want cops to start enforcing the Law again.

                  1. I misread, thought he was making a reference to Trump, as that always seems to be the fallback position.

              2. “Protesters”

                1. Hey, his words, not mine. But sure, let’s call them rioters instead. You’d be fine with putting them in concentration camps too?

              3. Nope, not a Marxist, but feel free to provide evidence otherwise

                I said that you “spew Marxist tropes”, specifically the trope that people who oppose Marxists are fascists.

                I’ve voted Republican and Libertarian my whole life, actually

                The Republican party has been full of war mongers and social engineers. The Libertarian party has been taken over by communist utopians. No doubt your kind of people and ideology.

                1. I said that you “spew Marxist tropes”, specifically the trope that people who oppose Marxists are fascists.

                  Nope, never said that. Again, feel free to link to where I did. Plenty of people oppose Marxists. Some of them are Fascists, some are conservatives, some are liberals, some are libertarians. I’m one of them.

                  The Republican party has been full of war mongers and social engineers.

                  Sadly true. Fortunately I don’t vote straight ticket. When a Republican is good, I vote for them. When they’re not, I don’t.

                  The Libertarian party has been taken over by communist utopians. No doubt your kind of people and ideology.

                  Ah, I get it. You’re insane. This whole conversation makes more sense now.

  17. Reading this howling, screeching tsunami of rants against rioting is highly entertaining. My father tells me this is exactly what white people did in response to the Civil Rights movement in the 50s and 60s. They overwhelmingly stereotyped Dr King as a leader of rioters. White people were constantly shooting at him and at Civil Rights marchers, and beating them. Dr King was even knocked unconscious in church by a white man, while preaching a sermon. White people kept shooting at him, because he was too violent, until they finally killed him. The “Libertarians” above reveal themselves to be a bunch of lying, dishonest conservative racists. There’s literally not one word about the heavy-handed government brutality which precipitated this situation in Kenosha.

    1. What heavy handed government brutality? There is no evidence of police misconduct. The guy they shot was a sexual predator with an arrest warrant out for him, reaching into his car. Not is there any evidence that this was race related.

      And let’s be clear: throughout US history, it has always been progressives and Democrats who were the racists: progressives and Democrats gave us segregation and eugenics. Conservatives and Christians were the ones standing up for human dignity, equality under the law, and individual rights.

      You are projecting your own bigotry and racism onto the situation, like your kind always does. And you always pretend that you are doing it for justice and to help minorities

      1. Let us also consider who has been running the show for decades or more in the places where these shootings have been happening.

        Throw those bums out and then maybe we will think you are serious and credible.

        But when their “solution” inevitably involves retaining the very people who have been in charge you know they are just arguing from convenience.

    2. You are conflating rioting and protesting just like the current media is doing. There were violent riots in the sixties but the demonstrations led by MLK were non violent. I was around back then and it’s simply not true that he was “overwhelmingly stereotyped…as a leader of rioters” nor were white people constantly shooting at him. He was certainly considered by some to be a subversive and he clearly was a threat to the status quo and he was assassinated. But his movement earned the respect of a majority including white people. I think it’s frankly offensive to compare the civil rights movement of the sixties to a bunch of coddled white kids burning down furniture stores and pawn shops.

      1. You are conflating rioting and protesting just like the current media is doing.

        Also, just like the media then, now, and in between has done, he’s conflating MLK with the totality of the Civil Rights movement while downplaying the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers. Like the latter weren’t openly supporting violent socialism and fundamentalist ideology under the guise of benign cultural revolution.

  18. Really not hard to solve if all the politics didn’t get in the way.

    Eliminate police unions.
    Fire bad cops.
    Eliminate qualified immunity.
    Prosecute cops who murder people.
    Enforce the law and throw rioters and looters in prison.

    1. Adding more guns to the mix just makes escalation more inevitable. Reason has for months now been celebrating increases in sales of firearms and ammo. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. People have stopped buying guns and are starting to use them.

      1. Do you think they are buying the guns and now using them because of the riots and the lack of police presence and protection? No, you are totally right it is all the fault of people exercising their 2A rights. Damn them for their liberty.

        1. “Do you think they are buying the guns and now using them because of the riots and the lack of police presence and protection?”

          I don’t care, and besides I’m not a mind reader.

          1. You don’t care because it doesn’t support your narrative.

            1. What’s my narrative? And, if you can, avoid using wishy washy words like ‘narrative’ in your answer. If Americans think shooting each other will solve their problems, then shoot away, I say. It may take a while but eventually it will become obvious that it won’t make things better.

      2. Adding more guns to the mix just makes escalation more inevitable.

        Did you personally add more guns to the mix, are you accusing us/Reason for adding guns to the mix, or are you saying “I don’t think people in the mix should be allowed to have guns.”? If the latter, please be more clear about which exact people you don’t think should have guns and why.

        1. “Did you personally add more guns to the mix, are you accusing us/Reason for adding guns to the mix”

          Americans are buying lots of guns and ammo these days. About 3 times as much as they were this time last year according to my sources on the Internet. I don’t see why anyone who wants a gun shouldn’t have one. Unless they are insane. I don’t think putting a loaded gun into the hands of a lunatic is a good idea. Much the same with knives, saps, brass knuckles, piano wire and other weapons. All but the most crazy among us should be able to arm themselves with weapons that suit their personal style.

          My point here is that guns, knives, saps, brass knuckles and the like aren’t going to solve America’s problems. There will still be a pandemic, hurricanes, heatwaves, unemployment, riots, statue removals, young children being sent home from their schools for wearing t-shirts with the wrong message on them, endless military missions doomed to fail from the get go, crumbling roads and bridges, slow and overpriced internet service, endemic obesity, addiction to drugs, porn and video games no matter how many guns you have.

  19. To bolster your points, random notes on Kenosha:

    All of this is “what I heard”, not verified. So double check.

    But it looks like the people doing the violence and burning and looting are not locals. Shooter guy was from nearby in Illinois. Most of the arrests are apparently from out of town.

    People have described these “rioter/protesters” as LARPing, and it does have a ring of truth to it. Lots of people attacking others with weapons, lots of women attacking men with clubs, etc. That seems to fit the definition LARPing is trying to convey. Some 135 lb woman runs up and clubs a grown man with a metal bar and expects to walk away like it is Grand Theft Auto. Reality doesn’t work like that.

    The shooter video is full of these people. Even after some folks get shot attacking shooter dude, people keep running up to him, trying to hit him with the clubs they are carrying. No sane person does that. Rifle dude is dangerous enough… you don’t a attack him after he proves that he will in fact shoot his rifle at people. That’s just crazy stupid.

    Most of those folks seem to be non-local and going out to act out a fantasy role-playing adventure.

    1. Charge a gun, run from a knife.

      1. Unless you are the aggressor and can easily avoid the conflict by not chasing the person with the gun.

      2. Or, when the kid with the gun tries to extricate himself, you let him. Even the video from the first shooting shows the kid trying to extricate himself and they pursued him until he was cornered.

        1. I didn’t see any video. Not interested. The line,

          “Charge a gun, run from a knife.”

          Is a line from Al Pacino as Jimmy Hoffa in the latest Scorcese movie.

          1. Sit this one out, champ.

            1. Sitting it out won’t be enough, eventually. I still recommend the passport/second language thing.

    2. “Even after some folks get shot attacking shooter dude, people keep running up to him, trying to hit him with the clubs they are carrying. No sane person does that.”

      ‘Whaddy mean there’s no respawn on this map? Fuckin’ faggot game…’

    3. Shooter is from Antioch IL which is right in the WI border. 20 miles from Kenosha. The closest “big town” in the area. He’s a local.

      1. right on the WI border.

      2. At least as close as silver lake, which one of the anarchist was from. In fact I’m pretty sure silver lake and Antioch are closer to each other in driving minutes than either of them are to Kenosha.

    4. Hopefully, the kid was smart enough to keep his mouth shut until a lawyer arrived.

  20. Bleeding Kenosha.

  21. These interests aren’t a conflict between different groups. They are deliberate violence by socialists and progressives trying to destroy liberal society and take power by force.

  22. The future is gay cops on fire.

    1. Asking what time it is and pointing out that your autochef is broken.

  23. I doubt that the current disorders will be a lasting phenomenon. They are above all products of pent-up tensions from the Covid lockdown. No sports, no school, no concerts, no vacations, etc. No surprise that hot-blooded youth are rioting. Also, the weather is warm. That’s when the biggest riots of the Sixties occurred.

    1. “They are above all products of pent-up tensions from the Covid lockdown. No sports, no school, no concerts, no vacations, etc.”

      I gather that police shooting unarmed black people is at least partly responsible for the violence. Violence against American blacks is exactly what you’d call a ‘lasting phenomenon.’

      1. Counter example…

        riots and protests in Europe. No American Systemic Racism over there, yet US based riots inspired riots in Europe.

        He’s right. People have pent up frustration and it was going to come out somewhere. The issue is legitimate. The protesters connection to the issue is tenuous at best. When you see a bunch of white suburban kids in a western city like Seattle or Portland (both under 7% black in the city, much less in the greater metropolitan area) rioting because of systemic racism in the police, you can bet that it isn’t because of pent up anger over years of an abusive police force repressing them. They are out protesting Trump’s racist America in a progressive city without a republican in sight.

        No, they were gonna run wild, given a chance. This was a target of opportunity for many of them.

        Just because the cause is just, don’t expect that the warriors for the cause are just warriors, nor that the just cause is their primary motivation.

        1. ” People have pent up frustration and it was going to come out somewhere.”

          I agree, I was saying as much in comments the other day to the medical soldier commenter who posts here. He insisted that the riots were all down to the manipulations of the Democratic mayors who control the cities therefore control the rioters. I argued that frustration and anger, even summer heat played their parts. Gleringer gave a number of causes, leaving out what I think is the most important one. Which I thought needed to be corrected. I did this by pointing out the issue of police shooting or strangling to death unarmed black people in the streets.

          “No American Systemic Racism over there, yet US based riots inspired riots in Europe.”

          That is an interesting counter example. European riots are a good example of ‘a temporary phenomenon.’ They spark up and quickly die down and are forgotten. In America, on the other hand, it’s a permanent phenomenon. There were race related riots under Obama without any virus lockdown.

          ” They are out protesting Trump’s racist America in a progressive city”

          What’s wrong with that? It’s the right of every American to protest, even in progressive cities.

          1. I never argued that it was entirely the manipulation of Democratic mayors. Keep lying. I said it was their fault for not stopping them. Yes, the lockdowns are part of the problem. Do you ever not lie?

            1. You claimed that the rioters were under the control of Democratic politicians. And other such partisan nonsense.

              “Do you ever not lie?”

              Yes.

              1. No I never. Quote me! I said they were in Democratically controlled cities. I know reading is hard for you.

                1. So who is orchestrating the riots if it’s not Democratic mayors?

                  1. You really should have sat this one out.

                    1. I’m rioting in spirit.

                    2. You’re rioting against language.

    2. unless Trump is reelected. which gets more likely by the day.

    3. This is all completely coordinated, planned, astroturfed election year bullshit funded almost exclusively by George Soros, Tom Styer and Michael Bloomberg, but sure, it was the weather and the corona what done it.

    4. I doubt that the current disorders will be a lasting phenomenon. They are above all products of pent-up tensions from the Covid lockdown. No sports, no school, no concerts, no vacations, etc. No surprise that hot-blooded youth are rioting. Also, the weather is warm.

      I disagree or, maybe more accurately, I don’t think the effects of the current disorder are going to just vaporize any more than they did in the duration of 60s (and arguably into the 70s). I think COVID absolutely played a role but I think the phenomenon is more than the sum of it’s parts and won’t be simply put back in the bag.

  24. And just who is going to take control and stifle this behavior? No matter what anyone tries to do, there will be the race card played by blm, the TV news, the dems, biden and all the Marxists who are bent on destroying the country. The last line of defense and sense is the citizen protecting his property, his life and his family. Politicians by nature are complete cowards, and only pander to who pays them the most…attention and mostly money. The police are being defunded, either purposely or by the lack of revenues leaving many cities and towns without enough money to pay wages. And then we have the fake pandemic that will lead to further complete lockdowns where blm, antifa and soros paid cowards are free to roam the street and riot without a care in the world.

    1. “And just who is going to take control and stifle this behavior?”

      Usually it’s the military who are responsible for quelling insurrection. Maybe the president can calm things down with some soothing words and promises of money. On the other hand, escalating the violence may well be Trump’s best chance at re-election.

  25. We can have Rome again, if we smash enough BMW windows.

    1. Probably not the clean running water or heated floors or reliable bridge though.

    2. Lead poisoning and feeding people to lions in the Colosseum? I can see that.

  26. Civilization ends when people stop acting civilized.

    1. And, it takes violent men sometimes to make people act civilized.

      1. We have the mightiest military force in the world.

        We should have been using it to impose order for ar least 25 years!

        1. “We have the mightiest military force in the world.”

          Not much good if you can’t beat the mightiest goat herding force in the world.

          1. It’s good for making government contractors and government employees filthy rich–predominantly (though not exclusively) Democrats.

    2. “Civilization ends….”

      … at the border. And not in the good way.

      Go to the north, or south or east or west. Civilization is still thriving. Don’t judge the rest of the world by the fact that America has thrown in the towel on dealing with the virus, or keeping an empire. Throwing in the towel on maintaining civil order is a no brainer.

      1. I didn’t bother to read upthread, and there’s no reason to do so. You hope someone makes a mistake and clicks on your name to double the hits on your blog this week, but anyone who does sees what they have done and why it was a mistake.
        Please fuck off, you pathetic piece of sophomoric shit. Make your family proud and the world a better place: Find a way to die. Now.

        1. ^^^ This ^^^

      2. Don’t judge the rest of the world by the fact that

        I judge the rest of the word by having lived in many places: most of it is a shithole full of desperate people with bad governments.

        America has thrown in the towel on dealing with the virus

        You need to get your facts straight: America has dealt with the virus pretty well.

        or keeping an empire.

        Vote for Biden/Harris, and you’ll get more empire.

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        2. “Vote for Biden/Harris, and you’ll get more empire.”

          The empire is history. America is finished.

          1. No, whiny shits like you are.

            1. I’m just getting started.

      3. Oh, I see: you are from Mexico. Why don’t you STFU about the US and stay in your own “civilized” country?

        1. If Mexico is not to your taste, try Canada or Europe or Asia. They all have their shit together and none are circling round the drain as the US is today.

          1. I’m an immigrant. I did try Canada, Europe, and Asia. I came to the US to get away from those awful places. And they are getting worse.

            1. Things change. It’s 2020 now. Try those countries again today and you might come away with a different assessment. If you have never thought of Mexico, give it some thought. It isn’t nearly so horrible as it is portrayed in American cultural productions.

  27. Govt needs to protect your life, liberty, and property…it has failed on all three with the men who were shot and the riots they birthed. The major parties have been pushing the other side is evil for decades with the dems really pushing this. Last night the govt sent cops to protect Kenosha’s city hall but NONE to project private business. What were the people supposed to do? Thank god for the 2nd amendment

    1. They can start by considering black humans more important than 7-11s.

      1. Well, government apparently considers black humans more important than humans in other racial group, as evidenced by the fact that black humans receive massive government privileges and are killed at a lower rate during police encounters than other racial groups. Do you want to abolish those kind of racist policies? Great! Join the club.

        1. Go ahead, name a law that gives a benefit to black people it doesn’t give to anyone else.

          1. Read what I wrote and then ask your question again so that it actually relates to what I wrote.

            1. I did, now answer my question.

  28. The violence is cause for concern? Gee, thanks for noticing and then condescending to splain it to us. What’s the matter, are your Silicon Valley overlords starting to get nervous and looking at the distances to Oakland and Richmond?

    This comment not approved by Silicon Valley brain slugs.

  29. Kenosha Doesn’t Have To Be a Vision of America’s Future

    But it will be as long as you keep supporting, justifying, and excusing racial violence.

    1. But it will be as long as you keep supporting, justifying, and excusing racial violence.

      But it will be as long as you keep supporting, justifying, and excusing violence.

      Fixed that for ya. You’re welcome.

  30. This is NOT an issue of “opposing factions” or “conflicing idealogies” t its root. Yes, those are factors, but the root of this is a determined effort to destry this nation and its government. The llinks and connexioins between Antifa/BLM to outisde promoteers, enabliers, funders, organiseres, is well known. The “issues” are being blown way out of proportion, including the insane response to the “chiinese virus”, which had already seriously destabilised this nation all on its own.
    The :demonstrators” were merely the advance troops, sent out to soften up the trargets. Now the “demosntrators” show up during daylight, do their thing, and after dark their ouseide clothes come off and their Antifa suits are now visible.Then out come the pre-staged bricks, frozen water bottles, commercial grade fireworks, heavy duty high capacity slings, Molotov cockatils, huge lethal skateboards, deadly lhigh powered lazers imported by the thousands from CHina, paint bombs, poop and piss bombs, and other weapons of war.

    The police, if they had been there, now stand down and disappear, ceding the cmbat zone to the enemy.

    EVERY ITEM I named above, common in the riots, are lethal threat items, their use and often possession is a felony, and yet NO ONE is taking appropriate action to end this madness.

    Arson, a common crime, is a felony, and if on an occupied building can and should be charged as attemted murder. Anyone attempting to fire an occupied building SHOULD be met with lethal force to end that threat. Yes, fire on them until they stop. WHY they stop does not matter. Any individual seen hurling frozen water bottles, paving stones, swinging a skateboard, steel baton, big bike lock, chain, attempting to break into an occupied building or venicle, can and should be met with lethal force. Just enough to stop the threat. At whatever point the perpetrator stops. If cops wont do that perhaps private citizens will or should. You see a black clad thug swinging a huge longboard against someone else, anyone can and should step up and stop it.. by any means necessary or availble. Some tools wrk better than others.

    We are, or used to be, a nation of laws. HOW IS IT that today all the above mentioned assaults can be perpetrated by their hundreds by the “demonstrators” on any given night ithe “troubled” cities. yet be met with NO resistance or attempt to end the lethal behaviour.

    If the local police will not do it, perhaps the county sheriffs could.
    If the county sheriffs won’t perhaps the State Police would.
    If the State Police. won’t, perhaps try the State Militia,
    if the State Militia won’t, perhaps the State Natiional Guard will.
    If the State Militia won’t, tag the National Guard.
    If National Guard refuse, FBI should take their turn (hah hah hah)
    When FBI fail or refuse, time to obey the Constitution and call out US Miiltary troops, per Article One which authorises the use of military “to quell riot or civil disturbance”. This actiivity falls under one of thse categories as outlined in Article One of the US Constitution. One of the functions of the US Military but acting domestically.

    Rules of ENgagement shold NOT inculde things liie crowd dispersal or control, actions should be carefully restricted to observed acts that are violent felony crimes against a person or physical property. Slingshotting paint balloons, throwing or launching pavers, frozen water bottles, hitting iwith longboards, brandishing or threatening with firearms, deployment of fireworks, Molotov cocktails, lazers, launching turd bombs, any attempt to burn anything beyond what they brought for that purpose.. and particularly if the fire threatens or involves an structure or property. That would includ e cars. Catch them in the act, take down, arrest search for contraband, (possessioni of pavers ,fireworks, lazers, any ther such destructive device that poses a threat to life, limb or property. Any lethal weapon on their person in the commission of a feloy is another felony, and must be seized. Check for approprpate Mother May I Cards, etc. Confiscte “mobile devices” and get warrants to search them, working to identiyf connexions amongst those active that night.. conspiracy to overthrow the government through their actions. Treason.

    Either govenment agencies begin playing hardball now, or we can kiss the United States of Maierca goodye.. the only remaining hope then would be patriot militia steping up and DIONG what gummit hooh haws refused or failed to do. Plain and simple, if this garbage persists unabated and not dealt with per the LAWS ot this nation, we are doomed as a country and culture.

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  33. They asked for it, they’re going to get it. It was only a matter of time.

  34. When you have a society with widespread systemic violence, you shouldn’t be surprised when it occasionally spills out.

    What goes around comes around, and those who live by the sword die by the sword.

  35. Is it just me, or is Reason trying to play both sides? Saying “antifa” and “Proud Boys” are the same or suggesting that they are destructive in equal measure strikes me as a false equivalency. The violence and harassment that I’ve seen is 90% antifa/BLM. I feel sure that if Proud Boys or Boogaloo Boys were going around initiating destruction and violence, it would be all over the news. Because it would be bad for Trump. But the one video I saw involving the Proud Boys started as a protest, and resulted in violence when antifa and their buddies came in and provoked the Proud Boys. Has anyone in a neighborhood watch dumped a jar of piss on someone who disagrees with them? How many businesses have been burned to the ground by the law-and-order crew?

    I confess to being cynical and I don’t trust anyone in government or anyone in the MSM anymore. This year has brought them to a new low, where they openly admit their bias and even defend it as morally necessary (because orangemanbad). It’s unapologetically Machiavellian.

    Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe left and right are equally to blame, but someone will have to come correct with some evidence to convince me that antifa and a neighborhood watch are really just factions in the same fight. If the police could do their jobs, there would be no neighborhood watch.

    I get that libertarians don’t like Trump. Fine. But this article seems like it is making an attempt to suggest the right is equally guilty, here. If they were, I expect I would be hearing about it nonstop.

    1. “Both sides” is the Reason Stylebook standardized response whenever the left has obviously crossed a line.

      So much so that it’s practically a tell.

  36. Let’s see some folks have a problem complying with cops and they get shot. Walking away from someone with a gun and reaching into a car isn’t exactly the brightest idea. Is this police brutality or victim stupidity? If a cop asks you to stop. You stop and keep your hands in sight. It’s simple if you don’t expect to get a bullet. I don’t care what you think about cop racism, brutality or whatever. The cop has the gun and he will use it – it’s common sense if you have an IQ north of a peanut.

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  38. These are bolsheviks plain and simple not people who honestly address the key issues why violence is so higher in black communities..the war on drugs. Again let me be specific…the war on drugs. end that and the weekly “omaha” beach shootings in Chicago and NYC will end pretty quick.

    Instead you have folks who don’t like social outcomes in a free society and infiltrating protests which should be demanding an end to the war on drugs to improve the condition of inner cities. Look at the men shot in Kenosha and their background. Nuff said.

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