It Wasn't Tear Gas. It Was a Gaseous Substance That Causes Tears.

Plus: Protest updates, COVID-19 upates, a surge in gun sales, and more...

No, President Donald Trump didn't have police shoot tear gas at innocent people so he could pose for a pic with an upside-down Bible. Both the president and his lackeys at certain media outlets want to make sure we're clear on that. You see, the truth is that Trump had police bombard a law-abiding crowd with a gaseous substance that produces tears.

You see the difference? Not really? It doesn't matter. We're talking about this right now, and that's what Trump boosters and predator-cop stans want. The more time people spend debating the difference between tear gas and "smoke canisters and pepper balls," the less focus on the fact that the Trump administration had peaceful citizens attacked so he could pretend on camera to be brave and religious.

This is the same tactic we've seen again and again from the Trump administration: deny, shift stories, and quibble over inane particulars.

It doesn't matter if most media or even most Americans don't really buy the administration's deflections and lies. The point is to shift the public conversation, give Trump supporters an easy retort to critics, and to present enough reasonable doubt that folks not especially attuned to politics tune out. Getting people to see this as just another far-removed partisan squabble is essential to covering up the heinous and extreme nature of the stunt the administration pulled in Lafayette Square. (For a minute by minute rundown of events, check this out.)

Last night, the Trump reelection campaign demanded media outlets issue a correction about any tear gas reporting. "Every news organization which reported the tear gas lie should immediately correct or retract its erroneous reporting," said Tim Murtaugh, campaign communications director, in a statement.

Trump folks want to pretend that masses of individual protesters and members of the press were lying, in coordination, to trick people into thinking the administration behaved worse than it did. But the fact of the matter is that being tear-gassed and being bombarded with a pepper-spray bomb produce the same effects, and people were reporting on what they had experienced and witnessed directly.

Accuracy in media matters, of course, and Reason has often been the first to point out when most press is getting a story wrong. But reporting accurately and truthfully means doing the absolute best you can with the facts that are available to you, admitting what you don't know, and updating your narrative when new information arrives. And it certainly doesn't mean describing things in exactly the terms that government officials or other powerful people prefer you to use.

The Trump administration might not want to call the substance law enforcement agents deployed "tear gas." But under the common understanding of tear gas—"an umbrella term for about a half-dozen so-called 'riot-control agents' or 'less lethal' chemical weapons" per Mother Jones—and according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's definition, it was.

---

PROTEST UPDATES

Peaceful protests rule Tuesday. Last night's protests against police abuse went down with way fewer hitches than the night before, as crowds in many cities marched peacefully and police largely left them alone. In Washington, D.C.:

https://twitter.com/mjcontrera/status/1268020907680894980?s=12

(More on D.C. last night from Reason's Christian Britschgi.)

Boston:

Just an incredible scene in #Boston's Franklin Park where thousands of people are peacefully marching. This is the view from #Sky5: https://t.co/azjujPKrtg #BostonProtest pic.twitter.com/r6K46VI3Ie

— WCVB-TV Boston (@WCVB) June 2, 2020

Louisville:

After five days of escalating clashes between police and protesters Louisville got a reprieve Tuesday night. Police seemed to pull back, allowing a crowd of hundreds to peacefully walk through the streets of the city unbothered.

This apparent change of tactic follows the police killing of David McAtee, a west Louisville business owner shot around 12:15 a.m. Monday when Louisville Metro Police Department and the Kentucky National Guard arrived to break up a gathering after curfew. Officers from both LMPD and the National Guard fired at McAtee. Authorities released a video on Tuesday they allege shows McAtee fired first.

Not all was good last night, however. A few examples:

https://twitter.com/jthalji/status/1268064444124401664

And … now the police are using tear gas and flash bangs to clear 4th near Taylor. (videos by @Jimryan015) pic.twitter.com/2BgBGGTNUZ

— The Oregonian (@Oregonian) June 3, 2020

Lots of explosions here as police deploy tear gas and flash bangs. #seattlepprtest pic.twitter.com/NgXL9zOyO3

— Jake Goldstein-Street (@GoldsteinStreet) June 3, 2020

WATCH: Police arrest protesters during traffic stop in Los Angeles, @GadiNBC reports "Immediately officers swarmed, they broke all the windows and they dragged the occupants out…They [occupants] say that they were being accused of looting. They say that they had no merchandise" pic.twitter.com/mp3Bz0lgZQ

— MSNBC (@MSNBC) June 3, 2020

https://twitter.com/LeoMCastaneda/status/1268067234775052288

---

QUICK HITS

• "More than 1.7 million firearms were sold in the U.S. last month, up 80 percent compared to last May," reports National Review. "That follows a 71 percent surge in April to just under 1.8 million sold, and just under two million guns were sold in March."

• The COVID-19 vaccine will need to be readministered seasonally, says former Food and Drug Administration head Scott Gottlieb:

"The expectation should be that this is going to be a seasonal vaccine," says @ScottGottliebMD on #COVID19 vaccine. "You're going to need this shot regularly, and maybe annually." pic.twitter.com/6XL6uQi2Im

— Squawk Box (@SquawkCNBC) June 3, 2020

• Bad COVID-19 news out of Sweden:

More evidence that Sweden's strategy of avoiding lockdown failed: Sweden's 4,468 #COVID deaths occurred at a rate of 449 per million inhabitants, roughly 5-10x higher than neighboring Norway (45 deaths / million inhabitants), Denmark (100/million) and Finland (58/million). https://t.co/WYYMqN2xtP

— Nick Mark MD (@nickmmark) June 3, 2020

• More legislation aimed at curbing police brutality:

Police can legally use lethal force if their conduct is considered "reasonable" in the heat of the moment.

This open definition makes it very hard to hold cops accountable.

The PEACE Act will change this by establishing a national use-of-force standard. https://t.co/TEzTKdVk4L

— Ro Khanna (@RoKhanna) June 3, 2020

• "Derek Chauvin, the now-former Minneapolis police officer who pressed George Floyd's head into the pavement with his knee until Floyd died, has now been charged by Minnesota prosecutors with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter," reports Alec Ward.

• Karen jumps the shark:

OK someone just called me a Karen for posting photos of police officers who had their badge numbers obscured at a protest two blocks from my house, this has officially gotten too silly. I'm putting away my phone for the evening.

— Emily Guendelsberger (@emilygee) June 3, 2020

• Notoriously racist Rep. Steve King (R–Iowa) lost his reelection bid last night.

• Read Reason's Matt Welch on why he "can't quit New York."

Comments

[Ra's al Gore]

Were the cops in gas masks? If not, it wasn't tear gas.

[JesseAz]

Shut up. Gaslighting is the new normal.

[Mike Drop]

JesseAz knows all about gaslighting.

If you read the article, ENB says (admittedly in awkward prose) that is was pepper balls, not tear gas.

In case you haven’t been keeping up with the news this morning, that it was pepper balls is reporting that came from further interviews with the police.

Even so, Trump is re-tweeting articles from The Federalist, about how it wasn’t tear gas. An honorable President would be getting to the bottom of what happened, not just looking for an article that excuses his behavior (and doesn’t even bother to delve into why the heck it was so important for him to get a photo op with a bible when he knew the public square was full of protestors).

[JesseAz]

Do you know what gaslighting even means dummy? You sure use it incorrectly often.

You speak of reasonableness? You refuse to even admit there is violence at the protests, what the park police directly stated they were responding to. The use of smoke and such to disperse violent crowds is not something that needs to be investigated. Full stop.

Likewise, words matter. We've had too much of this redefinition of words and events in order to push narratives. This isn't a George Orwell novel. Words have meaning, and precise descriptions of events should be used. The narrative doesn't matter, facts do.

You want anarchy. Just admit it dummy.

[Hop]

You just described the use of "pepper bombs" as "smoke and such" and described a peaceful protest as a "violent crowd".

[bs]

You just described a violent crowd as a "peaceful protest."

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[Mike Drop]

Looks like we are all getting peanut butter in each other’s chocolate.

It seems to be true that bottles were being thrown and also be true that pepper balls were being used.

What I’m asking you to acknowledge is that there was no reason Trump needed to insert himself in that situation for a bible photo op.

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[JesseAz]

Now prove, difficulty is not using WaPo anonymous resources, that Trump or Barr directed anything. The Park Police said they did not.

[Mike Drop]

I didn’t say that Trump directed anything. I’ve heard various accounts saying that Barr or Stephen Miller were orchestrating the photo op, but it doesn’t matter.

I asked why Trump, who must have known there were protestors and explosions going on in the square, insisted on going forward with the photo op.

[bs]

Can you explain why he should be denied his rights? Oh, because it offends your sensibilities?

[Mike Drop]

Because he was purposely stirring up a confrontation, rather than acting toward peace and reconciliation.

Of course, he has a right to go there. It's not a question of his rights, it's a question of his acting responsibly, having some concern for how it affects national divisiveness, and considering the importance of the photo op. (And the photo op was just plain stupid and embarrassing, anyway.)

[bs]

So again, you are conflating your values/judgement with facts.

Was it wise and responsible to let the 3rd Precinct burn in Mpls? Was it wise and responsible to delay activating more guardsmen after the first night of looting and burning?

But that's different, right?

[Mike Drop]

You are deflecting from my question.

[bs]

Why conflate facts with opinion? Because the facts aren't on your side, of course.

[Mike Drop]

What facts have I conflated or denied? That *I* have conflated or denied, not someone else you think is on my "side".

[bs]

It seems to be true that bottles were being thrown and also be true that pepper balls were being used.

What I’m asking you to acknowledge is that there was no reason Trump needed to insert himself in that situation for a bible photo op.

One of those is a fact. The other is an opinion. Go ahead, you can use your finger to help you read if necessary.

[Mike Drop]

I wasn't conflating anything. I wrote one paragraph about facts, and another one questioning your ethical judgement and character. (By the way, you ethical judgement and lack of character is showing.)

[bs]

Really? Well good to know that you are the arbiter of all that is good and just.

Let's go back to the original post, shall we? You seem to have conveniently forgotten it:

Looks like we are all getting peanut butter in each other’s chocolate.

It seems to be true that bottles were being thrown and also be true that pepper balls were being used.

What I’m asking you to acknowledge is that there was no reason Trump needed to insert himself in that situation for a bible photo op.

So in the first case you were, finally, admitting the real facts at hand after you had denied them. That's good. I'll even use a word you like: that's PROGRESS.

Then you tried to frame the issue as some moral dilemma because you had already lost the facts. It's face saving, I get it. But let's go through your supposed "ethical judgement and character." I certainly understand the case you're trying to make that it was unwise for him to go to the church and provoking. But you seem constitutionally incapable of understanding the other side here. The mob was burning and looting. By "giving them space" they did what they always do: the burned more. By going to the church and defying that intimidation, Trump was sending a message that that will not be tolerated.

You are clearly fine with sacrificing the lives and property of others to assuage your guilt. I get it. But don't pretend that that is the only acceptable ethical position here (But you will).

[Mike Drop]

Two Germans in Nazi Germany:

German A: What Hitler just did was wrong. If you support him, you are wrong.
German B: How dare you be the arbitrar of what is good and just.

People 30 years later. Why didn't any Germans speak against Hitler?

[Mike Drop]

The crowd was not "burning and looting". Some of them might have been throwing bottles.

Meanwhile, there are photos of Barr ordering the National Guard to go in and clear the protestors.

I haven't been able to figure out the timeline of which happened when. Not sure anybody knows, because the bottle accusation isn't well documented. Bob Barr's role is well documented.

[Mike Drop]

It's called speaking out. It's called calling out my supposed fellow libertarians on unethical behavior. (Not sure you are a libertarian, you might be a conservative hanging out here on a libertarian website.)

[Mike Drop]

Finally admitting? Point to where I ever said otherwise? You won't find it, because I didn't.

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[Mother's lament]

bible photo op

I bet that confused the Episcopalians. "What is that strange, black leather book?"

[Mike Drop]

Perhaps. It definitely confused Trump.

[C₁₁H₁₅NO₂]

god your so sick with TDS Jeff that you have to reply to literally evey comment even if you sound retarded

[MatthewSlyfield]

The statement from the DC Park Police says "pepper balls" not "pepper bombs".

Pepper balls are small round projectiles designed to be fired from a paint ball gun that contain a powdered version of the active ingredient in pepper spray. A pepper ball affects a singular target. It is not in any way equivalent to tear gas.

Pepper bomb on the other hand implies a larger device designed to infuse an area with pepper spray.

I am disinclined to believe the Park Police statement that they used smoke rather than tear gas, but we shouldn't just make shit up.

[JesseAz]

"I am disinclined to believe the Park Police statement"

Why?

[MatthewSlyfield]

Because cops lie all the time to cover their own asses.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Chemical weapons, pepper balls included, absolutely do not "affect only a single target". The balls burst and the cn mix is made airborne. It does not care which surface made the ball break.

[bs]

Hi Delta! Still having trouble with your basic facts again. Don't worry, I'm sure the new talking point will be distributed soon along with some better jargon to make up for you embarassing yourself with your supposed special forces background.

Now go try your stupid betting game gambit again.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I don't know who 'delta' is.

You could try to disprove me or accept my argument.

That seems a bit above your capabilities, though.

[bs]

Needs more pep, Delta!

You're letting your special forces brethren down.

[Mike Drop]

By calling De Opp "delta" rather than responding to his points, you are plainly copping out on an online debate where you are floundering.

[bs]

Oh but I did respond to his points. Every one has been refuted. And delta is just an affectionate moniker from his "special forces" days.

But good try at white knighting!

[TrickyVic (old school)]

So please enlighten us to the maximum effective range of the pepper ball.

[De Oppresso Liber]

? what does that matter. They most certainly affect more than a single target. Or can you prove that pepper balls are individual target-seeking?

[TrickyVic (old school)]

"are individual target-seeking?"

Did you not say you were in the military?
It seem that someone who served would know than pepper balls are dumb fired. The idea that a pepper ball could be target seeking projectile is laughable at face value.

I think other people have make enough of an attempt at explaining the difference between projectiles for area use and for individual use. So I'm not going to bother there.

[Mike Drop]

Tricky, you didn’t really address De Opp’s primary point, which is that the pepper irritant could have gone all over the place even if the balls are shot at particular invldividuals.

And why would someone’s having been in the military be assumed to give them experience with pepper balls?

[Gray_Jay]

The DoL sock and Mike Drop sock coming to each other's defense is one of the funnier things I've seen here in awhile. Why do people feign military service, to a population that's had active war zones to send their military off to for the last twenty years? And then claim service with the Special Forces on top of it. I don't get it.

I'd have sworn M.D. was that Quora-shilling guy too. Can't win 'em all.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

""Tricky, you didn’t really address De Opp’s primary point, which is that the pepper irritant could have gone all over the place even if the balls are shot at particular invldividuals.

And why would someone’s having been in the military be assumed to give them experience with pepper balls?""

How far the substance can travel and still maintain its effectiveness is relative to his point. I'm still waiting for his answer.

I would not expect him to have experience with pepper balls because of the military. However, I would expect he would be at least familiar with the concept of maximum effective range.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

For example, if it has a maximum effective range of 24", you are not going to be tearing up if it lands at your feet. If you are hugging someone one who gets hit, you are very likely to feel it.

Projectiles for individuals purposely have smaller Max Eff ranges. Projectiles for groups purposely have larger Max Eff ranges.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

If the intent is to attack a group, then something with a large maximum effective range is used.

[C₁₁H₁₅NO₂]

because you raised the issue dumbasss

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Because you seem to be bragging about your knowledge of the spread of the powder in the balls.

[Mike Drop]

He really wasn’t. He was questioning other’s assertion that the irritant doesn’t spread.

[Jerry Only]

Yes DOL you really were

[Mother's lament]

Thanks to DOL's extensive pepper ball research which he got in his morning talking points email from Media Matters.

[De Oppresso Liber]

It's basic sense, you utter morons. Pepper balls don't care if they broke on the ground or on your shirt or on the guy next to you. It is a chemical, airborne weapon.

[Mother's lament]

It's liquid, not a powder you retard.

[Mike Drop]

Mother's, wikipedia says: "A pepper-spray projectile, also called a pepper-spray ball, pepper-ball or pepper-spray pellet is a frangible projectile containing a powdered chemical..."

You were full of shit when you mocked De Opp's "extensive research", while you just talked out of your ass.

[C₁₁H₁₅NO₂]

"Mother’s, wikipedia says"

i prefer facts

[Mother's lament]

Mike Drop Jeff, you dishonest fuck, you cherry-picked the wiki page leaving out the bit about liquid payloads.

The chemical is powdered capsaicin mixed with polyethylene glycol which is a liquid. These are the ones the federal government purchases.

[Mike Drop]

“The irritant payload may differ from product to product but is usually a powder, less frequently a liquid, gas or aerosol.”

[MatthewSlyfield]

pepper balls doe not contain CN (the active ingredient in tear gas), they contain capsaicin powder (the active ingredient in pepper spray and what makes chili peppers hot). Yes, the capsaicin powder becomes airborne, but only for a few seconds and the cloud is no more that a couple of feet across.

[Mike Drop]

A couple of feet across sounds wide enough to affect more than one person.

[bs]

So I guess you were "full of shit when you mocked" Mother's Lament?

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Not if social distancing guidelines are being followed.

[Mike Drop]

Which we know they were not being followed.

[Mike Drop]

Their latest statements are that they used smoke bombs and pepper balls. That they claim pepper balls is not inconsistent with the eyewitness accounts from individual protestors and reporters about stinging eyes.

[bs]

But, But, But!

[Mike Drop]

So, you got nothin'.

[bs]

Reading comprehension isn't really your strength.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Nothin but the reality tear gas wasn't used.

[JesseAz]

What do you think and such means?

"and described a peaceful protest as a “violent crowd”."

Are you capable of honesty? I stated clearly:

"there is violence at the protests, what the park police directly stated they were responding to. "

Either you have zero reading comprehension or as dishonest as most of the leftists here.

[MatthewSlyfield]

"there is violence at the protests, what the park police directly stated they were responding to"

And of course the Park Police would never, ever lie to cover their own asses.

[bs]

Thankfully the media and protesters would never lie as well. Aren't we all so fortunate?

[Mike Drop]

Multiple reporters independently reported they were attacked with some kind of irritant.

[Jerry Only]

so more than one person lied

[bs]

How many reported #RUSSIA? Asking for a former president who totally did everything "by the book."

[Mike Drop]

"Smoke and such" was dismissive. Part of your gaslighting technique is to fall back on literal meaning, when your connotation was quite clear.

[C₁₁H₁₅NO₂]

oh god you're bitching about pedantry when you're wrong again DOL

and yes we all know you are DOL fucktard

[Mike Drop]

You are replying to Mike Drop, not De Opp.

[bs]

Exactly.

[Jerry Only]

good thing they're both you then saves time for us

[TrickyVic (old school)]

""Part of your gaslighting technique is to fall back on literal meaning,""

Merriam-Webster offended.

[Mike Drop]

Exactly. Gaslighting JesseAz glosses over pepper bombs as “smoke and such”. He does that kind of thing all the time, going back to his repeated, daily inaccurate recaps of the impeachment proceedings.

[bs]

In this very thread pepper "bombs" are refuted. But you accuse him of gaslighting when he correctly and with citation notes that it was smoke and pepper balls.

Dude, mirror?

[Mike Drop]

That was a mistake on my part. I meant to type "pepper balls".

[C₁₁H₁₅NO₂]

you misspelled lie

[Catnip Kush]

The letters for "bombs" and "balls" are right next to each other

[Mike Drop]

It was probably a typo amplified my phone’s auto correct. You can clearly see, if you bother, that I use “pepper balls” in every other comment I made.

[Jerry Only]

No, it was just you fucking lying and getting caught and NOW making fucking excuses

[Mike Drop]

By the way, you just used a sneaky argumentative technique called "dwelling on trivia". Wherein you focused in on something I wrote that wasn't important to purposely miss the main point.

[C₁₁H₁₅NO₂]

"you caught me lying but it doesn't matter"

[De Oppresso Liber]

Look, it's a predator cop stan.

[Mike Drop]

Admitting; the Park Police said bottles were being thrown, and they found baseball bats, etc. afterward. I never said otherwise.

Answer me this: Trump was no doubt aware there were protestors in Lafayette Square. Why did he insist on doing his photo op, anyway?

[bs]

It really sucks when your narrative goes up in tear gas smoke.

[Mike Drop]

I didn't have "a narrative". I'm pointing out the bullshit at the core of Trump's ethical choice to pursue a photo op in the middle of a tense situation, and the poor ethics of anyone here who supports what he did.

[Catnip Kush]

right but you're a proven liar

[Mike Drop]

Do you support Trump’s ethical choice to insert himself in the middle of a known confrontational scenarion to get a photo op?

[Jerry Only]

bitch you got caught lying stop pretending like you can just carry on like it never happened

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

An honorable President would be getting to the bottom of what happened

Yes, truly that is the absolute most urgent thing going on right now. The president should drop all other activity to get to the bottom of that mystery

[DFG]

Yeah, he has TV to watch and tweets to write. The man is busy you guys.

[Mike Drop]

LOL

[Jerry Only]

no you're DOL

[I, Woodchipper]

An honorable President

Wait, wat? Hold on. Oh that's a good one.

An "honorable president" Oh man you almost had me there for a minute. good one. Hahahahahahhahahahhha

[R Mac]

Hey, I’m sure George Washington totally would have gotten to the bottom of something like this.

[Gray_Jay]

With the militia, and bayonets fixed.

[soldiermedic76]

Yeah, because Washington did exactly that in the Whiskey Rebellion, which was more a protest. He used bayonets and muskets to squelch that one. Today the equivalent would be the National Guard going on patrol with M-16/M-4 with bayonet fixed rather than cops with paintball guns armed with pepper balls.

[some guy]

These cops have been exposing themselves to tear gas for years, in slowly increasing quantities, in order to build up an immunity.

[Ra's al Gore]

Wait until they break out the iocaine powder.

[Bearded Spock]

We've already been involved in a land war in Asia for almost 20 years.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

Are you people idiots?

Sweden didn't fail you morons.

They fully expected rates to go up. I love how the original metric was deaths/per million but now it's per capita. No shit Sherlocks smaller populations will look worse.

I think I need my crazy pills.

And what's your point Elizabeth?

Let's wait and see how this all plays out because right now? In terms of the trade-offs and long-term fall outs, Sweden is in a good position.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Apparently, this is the only metric to judge a country? What about all the unintended consequences to suicides, bankruptcies, domestic violence? How the heck does that get left out in these little stupid screeds about Sweden? And by the way, 88% of those deaths are in the 70+ category. Quebec, which locked down, has WORSE numbers than Sweden.

Again I ask, because I'm one of those people who is PISSED OFF at what we did. We destroyed businesses and fucked over the kids because we're run by incompetent pansies and the ONE magazine I expect to keep some perspective posts a Tweet to one of those lousy MDs who played their part in pimping and pumping the hysteria, did you bother to consider the context?

Since this is ostensibly a magazine about Reason, it behooves its writers to exhibit some damn, you know, reason.

Here it is:

The vast majority of its population is not in danger. They allowed their citizens to live like ADULTS. The virus, as we move forward, is turning out to be a dud. You heard me.

When all is said and done, Sweden is likely to be right in the middle of the pack when all the dust settles on the statistics. It will have done better than countries who did stupidly lock down. With ONE notable difference. They will not have traumatized its citizens and economy. You won't hear Swedes talking like sissies about 'nothing until a vaccine is found!'

Plus they're spared the sickening display of superstition with people wearing stupid ineffective masks.

The end.

[Rufus The Monocled]

And this is not to say Sweden may be right. I'm just pointing out, at the moment, it's not that bad and wondering why people are pissing on them. As if 'lockdowns' were the only option here.

They made their play. We should all be hoping they succeed.

Their decision is a LONG-TERM one.

Let's see.

[Troglodyte Rex]

Since this is ostensibly a magazine about Reason, it behooves its writers to exhibit some damn, you know, reason.

ENB, lady brain, 'nuff said.

[Echo Chamber]

Sweden has done the world a service, and I hope they stay the course

[Rufus The Monocled]

But they may be wavering. The economic part is interesting.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

[Echo Chamber]

“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”
“still can’t give an exact answer on what other measures should have been taken".
At least he's willing to do a postmortem analysis.
Too soon?

[Rufus The Monocled]

The metric of deaths is an important one.

But using only this metric tells only part of the picture.

I think complete lockdowns weren't the only option.

I could be wrong but I'm still willing to wait this out longer.

Look. They may take a bigger hit in the long-term after all, but again, those trade-offs could still work out.

[Roberta]

Exactly. If the point is to immunize the population as rapidly as possible, then infection rates need to go up. If serology shows them a long way from the goal, that still means they're closer to it than those who are trying to suppress transmission in the general population.

[Freddy the Jerk]

It's "Reason", Rufus, not Reason.

[Colossal Douchebag]

This. Plus they're spared the looting & rioting of people sick of being locked in their homes for months on end.

[mad.casual]

Since this is ostensibly a magazine about Reason, it behooves its writers to exhibit some damn, you know, reason.

*drink*

[Snorkle]

Brilliant logic!

Americans are provincial, but Bart Simpson-style "I meant to do that" policy is a US thing not widely practiced elsewhere. See, other countries hold their leadership accountable for massive fuckups sometimes but here we have an entire news network dedicated to holding his (tiny) hand and telling him it'll all get better.

[mad.casual]

See, other countries hold their leadership accountable for massive fuckups sometimes but here we have an entire news network dedicated to holding his (tiny) hand and telling him it’ll all get better.

You can determine the veracity of this statement with the speed and efficiency with which Brexit was executed.

Justin Trudeau has been every bit the bumbling moron that Trump has been and then some but Trump is the only one getting his hand held.

Emperor Xi is far more oppressive with far more media cheerleading and political hand-holding but Trump is the one who's the worst.

As much as I dislike the people bought and sold on American Exceptionalism, I can at least respect their optimism. The people for whom America is only exceptionally bad or evil aren't just stupid, but ill-willed as well.

[Don't look at me!]

I had pepper balls once. Some tinactin took care of the problem.

[StackOfCoins]

Fuck these comments are really terrible lately.

[Mother's lament]

Why?
He's right. There's a huge difference between tear gas and pepper spray.

[Brandybuck]

A: "The cops didn't shoot him in the kneecap! They clearly shot him in the foot!"

B: "Oh, well, that's okay then"

[bs]

I lied and have a long track record of lying but I meant well. Oh, and I still have moral authority to call Trump on his lies.

Oh, that's OK then.

[Mother's lament]

Shitty analogy, here's what you did.

A: “The cops didn’t shoot him in the kneecap! They kicked him in the shin!”

B: “Splitting hairs!!!”

[Nardz]

"It wasn't teargas, it was a gaseous substance that causes tears"

Everything causes tears to progs, so not really saying much here

[C₁₁H₁₅NO₂]

/thread

[Rockstevo]

And then the whole “Peaceful protestors” stick, she knows you can’t prove a negative. Where there no riots because the protestors there where nonviolent or because the police were quick to quell any sign of aggression. We will never know, however after several nights of rioting I am with the police on this one.

[Ra's al Gore]

This riot is brought to you by Nike
Corporate America wants you to know it totally rejects imperialism and racism. Just not the Chinese variety

https://spectator.us/riot-brought-nike-looting-minneapolis-new-york-dc/

Why are police reluctant to put down the mayhem in the streets? Because they’re not allowed to: they answer to politicians who are afraid of being called bad names in the press and who need the support of the rioters’ upper-middle-class enablers. Those enablers include not only Democrats but also a great many elite libertarians and non-Trump Republicans; and not only the media and academy, with their known liberal bias, but also corporate America.

Take Nike. You might think the sneaker company would be upset about having its stores ransacked. But think again. You’re stealing Nikes? That just proves that Nike is the footwear brand of the revolution. That cool, edgy looter you see with his liberated Nikes is a walking advertisement, better than any money can buy. Others who admire the authenticity and passion and living purity of the looter — white suburban teens, for example, or progressive Ivy League lawyers — will now go out and buy Nikes so they can be part of the revolution, too.

Anyway, it’s not like the revolution is going to expropriate the sneaker factories — those have already been profitably relocated to countries under communist rule. Woke capitalism and the communism that employs the most brutal policing imaginable against the likes of Uighurs and Tibetans make perfect allies. Of course, corporate America wants you to know it totally rejects imperialism and racism. Just not the Chinese variety — or any other non-Western kind. As the Financial Times reports, amid this week’s riots, ‘Some companies devoted their advertising resources to responding to the crisis, with Nike — whose usual slogan is “Just Do It” — distributing a video telling Americans: “For once, Don’t Do It. Don’t pretend there’s not a problem in America.”’ Yes, Nike, there is a problem in America. Thank God we have corporations to watch out for our consciences.

[lap83]

Is Colin Kaepernick still going to pay for attorneys to represent Nike looters, I mean protesters?

[JesseAz]

Nickelodeon did an 8 minute black screen yesterday.

[Don't look at me!]

Gotta brain wash the kids.

[Earth Skeptic]

Was is sponsored by Nike?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"Steal These Shoes"

[R Mac]

So it wasn’t tear gas, it was just mouthwash in their eyes?

[Longtobefree]

https://babylonbee.com/news/nike-releases-commemorative-shoe-to-honor-looters

[speedylee]

"The COVID-19 vaccine will need to be readministered seasonally, says former Food and Drug Administration head Scott Gottlieb"

That's awfully convenient for Big Pharma and anyone that would want to track your movements annually.

[JesseAz]

And an awfully broad assertion since we k ow that's not true bases on Sars and other previous colds.

[some guy]

There's always a chance that this coronavirus will behave more like influenza than others. Only time will tell. Scott Gottlieb is jumping the gun with his assertions, though, I think.

[JesseAz]

An Italian virus researcher just came out yesterday perplexed at the low viral loads now being reported even by positive tests, basically saying Covid is largely a dead disease.

[Gray_Jay]

Great news! Too bad we won't be sure whether that's true for another two weeks, so we still must keep everything closed. Except people protesting on matters of conscience, those people can keep on doing what they're doing.

[NOYB2]

Except people protesting on matters of conscience, those people can keep on doing what they’re doing.

Only if the "matters of conscience" agree with those in power. Pro-life protests are still prohibited.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Yup. It's less potent now.

The doctor took it a step further. He said to knock it off with all the theatre and that people have to account for the terrorizing they did.

The doctor was in the thick of the madness in Lombardy and said this.

Which is why this whole sordid ordeal is going down as the greatest hysterical over reaction in modern Western history.

But I gotta listen to myopic minds like Gottlieb? Fuck him.

[Colossal Douchebag]

Which is why this whole sordid ordeal is going down as the greatest hysterical over reaction in modern Western history.

I certainly *hope* this is what happens, but I fully expect it to get memory-holed instead, just like every other "global" disease panic.

[Longtobefree]

Say what? There isn't even a(n approved) vaccine yet, and somehow they know this? Because science?

[Roberta]

He did hedge later by explaining what I already knew, which is that it depends on the nature of the vaccine, different types of which are being developed by different labs.

But then he went and said those who've recovered from the natural infection may have immunity "up to a year". How the fuck could he know that? More likely it'll be lifetime, or until the predominant strain drifts antigenically while remaining infectious.

Influenza has long since settled into a few antigenic types of hemagglutinin and neuraminidase that can recombine. New mutations are not the concern, recombinations are. We don't know enough about the surface antigens of coronaviruses to predict a pattern like that.

[Mike Drop]

Now there is some world-class paranoia!

[speedylee]

Yep. I don't trust the medical industry or the government and I sure as he'll don't trust them when they work together.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Hey, they've been right about everything else so far, right?

[Earth Skeptic]

Pay for a lifetime corona virus vaccine subscription and get a free RFID tracking chip!

[R Mac]

How about my Prime membership still gets my shit delivered in one day even during a pandemic? Prime + we’ll call it.

[JesseAz]

Found this amusing this morning regarding Covid:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/influential-hydroxychloroquine-study-used-suspect-data-from-company-run-by-pornographic-model-and-sci-fi-author

A study showing that the anti-malaria drug touted by President Trump, hydroxychloroquine, harmed COVID-19 patients is likely based on fabricated data.

[Commenter_XY]

Accuracy in media matters, of course, and Reason has often been the first to point out when most press is getting a story wrong. But reporting accurately and truthfully means doing the absolute best you can with the facts that are available to you, admitting what you don't know, and updating your narrative when new information arrives.

So what is your excuse, Elizabeth Brown?

[R Mac]

Yeah I chuckled at this statement.

[JesseAz]

I like how the explicitly call out updating the narrative.

[Mike Drop]

She literally corrected her reporting in the article you are quoting.

[Jerry Only]

so you missed his point then

[Mike Drop]

In what way? Enlighten me, instead of being coy.

[Commenter_XY]

clearly....

[speedylee]

"media matters" , "updating your narrative"

LOL

[Finrod]

She uses Mother Jones to counter something Trump said. I guess she's also into asking Boston Red Sox fans about the New York Yankees and Cincinnati Bengals fans about the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[BA Byron]

"Both the president and his lackeys at certain media outlets want to make sure we're clear on that."

The writer using the word "lackeys" is all that is needed to know about her bias.

[Ra's al Gore]

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/387568.php#387568

Just pretend it's 2003, forever and ever, and we're all still pretty hopeful that GOD KING PRESIDENT BUSH's Iraq Venture is going to end quickly as an indelible triumph.

Let's just sit around and quote Burke at each other while pulling each other's stringy dicks.

So: How are your endless reassurances that Everything's Fine, We Just Need to Grant DACA and Pass the TPP and Everything Will be Right as Rain holding up now?

Still stand behind them? Still proud of your super-accurate track record of unblemished excellence this past decade?

Still agitating to elect Democrats while telling conservatives that the Democrats are very moderate, centrist people who will of course never do anything radical?

Fuck you guys. Fuck off, you miserable frauds.

You cowards, you quislings.

You allies of the radical left's terrorists.

As you yourselves used to say, paraphrasing Orwell: Refusing to confront terrorism, and engaging in apologism for it, is functionally pro-terrorist.

[Ra's al Gore]

Like our failure to find Iraqi WMD?

George W. Bush calls on US to examine its 'tragic failures'
https://news.yahoo.com/george-w-bush-calls-us-examine-tragic-failures-232615659.html

[Finrod]

We found the fucking WMDs, idiot. Your propaganda is a decade out of date.

[Ra's al Gore]

We found nothing that required invasion and 20 fucking years of occupation.

[Ken Shultz]

"Accuracy in media matters, of course, and Reason has often been the first to point out when most press is getting a story wrong."

Holy shit!

Does this mean Reason has stopped referring to rioters as protesters and pretending that people are looting stores and burning them down because they're against racism and police brutality?

[Ken Shultz]

"Last night's protests against police abuse went down with way fewer hitches than the night before"

I'll take that as a "no".

[R Mac]

Destroying almost 300 businesses in Minneapolis was a “hitch”.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

So is shooting a cop in the back of the head. Just a "hitch" from the "mostly peaceful" rioters.

[damikesc]

I once thought Dave Weigel was an outlier here.

He seems to be the norm.

[Ken Shultz]

He was a harbinger of things to come!

By assuming they were being dishonest, we were actually giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Being willfully dishonest entails knowing the difference between a lie and truth. If they genuinely can't tell the difference, then that's just pathetic.

[Mike Drop]

You guys who come here every day to bitch about the Reason writers can always go start your own journalism website.

[R Mac]

And you can fuck off. Yet here we are.

[Finrod]

You should change your last name to Hunt, cretin.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

They're comfortable on their SSDI.

[Rat on a train]

Reason is already worse off due to the Glibening.

[JesseAz]

Mike, admitting he prefers a thought bubble where nothing against his beliefs will ever be challenged.

[Ken Shultz]

Fuck you!

[Gray_Jay]

Damn, Ken. Terse for you. Meaner, too.

I've settled for flagging the troll. At least I don't have to read his shit here after that.

[Mother's lament]

When even calm Ken is telling them to fuck off, you know your dealing with a truly dishonest piece of shit.

[Jerry Only]

Ken has had people here sucking his dick for years and now that that is over because he's been wrong so often lately he's having a hard time adjusting

[Mother's lament]

Fuck off, Jeff, you ban-evading piece of shit.

[OneSimpleLesson]

Hahaha

[bs]

So, like peaceful protesters then? Censorship is the best kind of free mind.

[Mike Drop]

It's not censorship to recommend that you go start a journalism site. How in the world is that censorship.

[Jerry Only]

"the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc"

you dont know what suppression means?

[Mike Drop]

What?! I was literally challenging the people who come here to bitch about Reason every day to go out to go o it and create MORE speech.

[Nardz]

Mike formerly Laursen got so butthurt during the impeachment threads that he first tried to get everyone to switch to Quora, where their policies would censor comments that made him sad, then quit altogether.
He's now come back with a changed name (curious) to resume concern trolling about "real libertarianism" (by which he means progressivism-lite) and bitching about Trump.
He is a pathetic troll who will soon flee once again.

[Commenter_XY]

Wait....Mikey is back? 🙂

[Gray_Jay]

Well, which Mikey are you referring to? There are a few here. This particular Mike Drop reads a lot like Laursen or Larsen. Now, I'm told it's a Jeff sock.
Initially, I thought it was one of the Glibs having a few chuckles. Shrug.

Meh, flag it when it insists on shitting up the thread. Not like staff here pays attention to the flags anyway.

[bs]

It fits.

[BYODB]

I'm pretty sure we're already using the Reason.com comments board as our own publication. It certainly has more interesting links than those the actual writers put up.

[Killjoy]

It's like people can't handle nuance.

They're either all protesters, or they're all rioters? There can't be a distinction?

One side can't condemn the looters and arsonists without tarring all the protesters with a broad brush.

The other side can't defend the protesters without trying to make the looting and arson "legitimate" somehow.

It's ridiculous both ways.

[Nardz]

When a cop abuses a handcuffed suspect, and the other cops don't stop him - when they even move to shield what he's doing from view of the public... those cops are just innocent officers?
No. We say those cops were wrong and participating in the abuse.
But protesters are totes ok to provide cover to rioters!

[De Oppresso Liber]

You seem to be missing all the news stories of rioters being suppressed or even turned into police by protestors. There are 2 distinct groups, at least. Protestors are not interested in covering for or abetting looters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGCAZtrgJbo

[bs]

Just like you've missed all of the violence and destruction by "peaceful protestors."

Oh, and hi Delta!

[De Oppresso Liber]

Still no point or argument to make? Sad. Low Energy.

[bs]

Hi Delta!

What's the going fashion for strawmen these days? I figured I'd ask an expert.

[Nardz]

I've seen it happen a handful of times, and it's good when it does.
The vast majority of the time, protesters do nothing at best and actively aid at worst.
Cops shouldn't get a pass for idly allowing fellows to commit assault in their presence.
Neither should protesters.
If you're a protester, you can
1. Leave
2. Stop the violent act and/or hand the perpetrators over to police
3. Do nothing and remain, thereby providing cover to rioters

#3 has by far been the most popular choice thus far

[Mike Drop]

4. Continue to exercise your right to peacefully protest, and trust that the police will make some effort to distinguish you from a rioter.

[Nardz]

No, you've just restated #3 and disingenuously pretend like it's something different by putting a new number in front of it

[Nardz]

Kinda like how you tried coming back a couple weeks ago with another name, and are now working on at least your 3rd of 2020

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Where the other three cops standing there hoping the people would distinguish them from the cop with the knee on the neck?

[I, Woodchipper]

+100

Everyone has lost all ability for anything but the starkest black and white thinking.

[JesseAz]

Literally nobody is saying this:

"They’re either all protesters, or they’re all rioters? There can’t be a distinction?"

Slow down buddy, we will run out of straw at this rate.

[bs]

No, killjoy and friends are saying this. They cannot see any difference between the two.

[Mike Drop]

Gaslighting, again. Trump apologists in this comment section have blown right through making any distinction between protestors and rioters many times.

[Nardz]

Mike says, conveniently omitting the reply he made just 2 minutes prior

[Ken Shultz]

They’re either all protesters, or they’re all rioters? There can’t be a distinction?

One side can’t condemn the looters and arsonists without tarring all the protesters with a broad brush.

The other side can’t defend the protesters without trying to make the looting and arson “legitimate” somehow.

It’s ridiculous both ways.

This is bothsideism, and it's bullshit.

One side refuses to refer to the rioters as anything but protesters.

The other side is the one making the distinction between them.

They are not equal. One of them is making the distinction and the other one is bending over backwards to paper the difference between arsonists and peaceful protesters.

[bs]

And that includes this very publication.

What's a six letter word for gaslighting? Working on a crossword.

[Mike Drop]

"Bothsideism"? We aren't allowed to point out when both Team Red and Team Blue are spinning the truth? They do it all the time.

[Nardz]

"Waaaaaah"

Thats really all you needed to type

[Mike Drop]

So, you got nothin’.

[bs]

Oh, you mean the way you spun the truth about Lafayette?

But that was in a noble cause, so it is just.

But your problem is that you didn't address Ken's very accurate point. When Ali Veshy(sp?) gets on live tv standing in front of a burning building and claims the protests are "mostly peaceful." That' not team red. When the Uterus here calls the damage done last night a "hitch" by "protesters" that's not team red. Team red is acknowledging BOTH the peaceful protesters (primarily in the day when they are more readily recognized) AND the rioters and looters which you, and team blue (but I repeat myself) and team Reason (again, I repeat myself) can't.

[Mike Drop]

Nardz, JesseAz, don't do nuance. They don't really understand Venn Diagrams, and view everything as an "us" (Trump) vs. "them" (anyone who says anything mean about Trump is a libtard).

[JesseAz]

Words no longer have meaning at Reason.com. What the fuck is this?

[JesseAz]

"Trump had police bombard a law-abiding crowd with a gaseous substance that produces tears."

Remember. Throwing projectiles is peaceful and law abiding now.

Look, I expect this shit from CNN and not MSNBC...

[damikesc]

I don't suppose we should note that there is literally zero evidence offered that Trump had them do anything, especially since the police said they had no idea Trump was going to be at the church.

[JesseAz]

Anonymous Sources told Washington Post that Barr ordered the actions himself. When has WaPo's posse of anonymous sources ever been wrong?!?

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

Well, if WaPo's anonymous sources are trying to destroy Barr, you know they are doing it totally honestly, with the utmost integrity, and only for the purest motives.

[Mother's lament]

Bloody coup plotters.
After all this lunacy is over, there needs to be a Nuremberg style trial to put a stop to the Deep Staters once and for all.

[Mike Drop]

So, that would be greater than zero evidence.

[R Mac]

Hahaha. You’re sad.

[Finrod]

You can't count, fuckwit. Stop trying,

[damikesc]

Not necessarily, no. I mean, we had a 3 year investigation of Trump with no actual evidence yet it happened.

[JesseAz]

This could be one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

So an unsourced assertion is evidence to you?

Anonymous sources tell me you never graduated high school and are an incel.

I have evidence now.

[Mike Drop]

It is some evidence. It's certainly not hard and conclusive evidence.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Yeah but we watched an impeach process that was thinking hearsay was hard and conclusive evidence. Then tolls tried to convince the country it is true.

[Ken Shultz]

"What the fuck is this?"

It's delusional.

When you see a line of trucks pull up to a high end retailer and people systematically looting it using something like the old fashioned bucket lines they used to use to put out fires, that's a protest against police brutality!?

Because ENB wants it to be about police brutality, that's what it is!

It's basically "magical thinking".

It's the same kind of thinking that made people believe that the Iraqi people wanted us to bomb, invade, and occupy their country. When I used to question this assumption, people would call me a racist.

The rioters want what ENB wants. We know this because ENB wants it, and she supports the protesters. If you don't understand, it's because you're evil or stupid.

[JesseAz]

Didn't they just have someone use a Fork Lift in California yesterday to loot? That's peaceful?

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

I sent pallets of bricks to a number of local businesses to assist with the rebuilding effort. I even paid for the delivery. Suddenly, I'm the bad guy?!

[Ken Shultz]

And that's about racism and police brutality?!

To some extent, they may be victims of their own social justice constraints. Because they can't use the word "riot", not even to describe looting and arson, they can't distinguish between riots and peaceful protests.

Use words for what they mean!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/riot

Meanwhile, if they refuse to differentiate between riots and peaceful protests, then it's perfectly appropriate to accuse them of not differentiating between riots and peaceful protests.

[Earth Skeptic]

Only if it was a solar-powered fork lift driven by a transexual vegan.

[R Mac]

No worries, a bunch of people in Hollywood donated their carbon offsets to the cause.

[Nardz]

The forklift self-identified as a backhoe

[Rufus The Monocled]

It's nihilism.

When punks loot and beat up ladies, that ain't protesting.

It's nihilism.

What's happening is NIHILISM is playing itself out in front of your eyes.

[JesseAz]

"Peaceful protests rule Tuesday. Last night's protests against police abuse went down with way fewer hitches than the night before, as crowds in many cities marched peacefully and police largely left them alone."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/minneapolis-unrest-subsides-as-cities-rage-over-death-of-george-floyd-11591018710

[NashTiger]

Yes. I guess we can forgive all the progs who talked about fully automatic weapons of war, but we still have to bust Trump over Trump Tower not being "wiretapped".

And, boy, don't ever say anything wrong about Section 230, platforms, publishers, or about health effects of certain scheduled substances

[Fist of Etiquette]

You see, the truth is that Trump had police bombard a law-abiding crowd with a gaseous substance that produces tears.

Like so many of us, those lib tears sustain his lifeforce.

[R Mac]

Lol.

[damikesc]

Fuinny seeing ENB bitching about terminology with her obsession over sex trafficking and prostitution being totally different and stuff.

[Echo Chamber]

"the heinous and extreme nature of the stunt"
So now calling out journalists for using such grandiose hyperbole is just playing into Trump's tiny little hands
Riiiiight

[Gray_Jay]

"Heinous and extreme nature of the stunt."

I don't read what she writes, but I know some of you do. Has she described any of the rioters, or their actions, with any language as strident and angry as she's described this?

[R Mac]

Lol.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268168284081459201.html

I'll tell you one reason I'm especially raw today. One of my closest and dearest friends died last week. I am going to his funeral today. Thank God it's being held in Arkansas or else it probably couldn't even exist. 8/
He'll be listed on the statistics as a COVID death because he caught COVID LITERALLY WHILE LOCKED DOWN IN THE HIGH RISK AREA OF A HOSPITAL, but what killed him were complications for underlying health conditions that had him hospitalized since late March. 9/
For the last 8 weeks of his life, he lived totally alone. Even after he had already caught COVID, he was not allowed in person human contact from his friends and family, even if we signed a waiver and promised to not leave the hospital until we ourselves cleared quarantine. 10/
I'm really mad that my friend had to die feeling not only his body give up on him, but probably also the worst loneliness and isolation he'd ever known in his life. And I'm really mad for all the families of people who were not allowed to say goodbye to loved ones... 11/
Or even mourn them or say goodbye at burials. Because it seems to me that that shit is also pretty damn important to maintaining who we are as human beings. How many people sat there and suffered this same indignity silently because they were told there was no choice? 12/
I'll tell you what conclusion I draw from the lack of tsk-tsking and condemnation of these current protesters (yes, even the peaceful ones), that they are going to kill grandma with their activities. It's the only conclusion that can be drawn. 13/
That conclusion is that they didn't really believe what they were saying all along. Because an infectious disease does not care about the reason you are gathering or how important it is. It has no social conscience, or conscience of any kind.

[Gray_Jay]

"I’ll tell you what conclusion I draw from the lack of tsk-tsking and condemnation of these current protesters (yes, even the peaceful ones), that they are going to kill grandma with their activities. It’s the only conclusion that can be drawn.

That conclusion is that they didn’t really believe what they were saying all along."

(Bold added for emphasis.)

The leaders demanding the longest lockdowns of their constituents, the same leaders giving these rioters space to destroy, aren't doing it because they believe in a deadly virus. They aren't doing it because they believe this is necessary to change attitudes in the police force. They are doing it for political reasons, because they think this wilful destruction will improve their party's performance in the elections 5 months from now, No matter the damage in the interim.

How unbelievably evil. I don't use these words lightly, but their actions are seditious. They are treasonous.

You'd think a journal of libertarianism would be pointing this out.

[Mother's lament]

You’d think a journal of libertarianism would be pointing this out
Not when there's a Literally Hitler tweeting mean things.

[Longtobefree]

Then burn down the hospital

[Earth Skeptic]

But make sure to loot the good stuff first.

[darkflame]

You know Cuomo's order in NY that had infected seniors returned to assisted living homes, which resulted in a fucking bloodbath? Well, Whitmer in Michigan has extended a similar order, knowing full well what the affects will be. Except it isn't seniors being returned to a retirement home they were already at, it's ANYONE who's been infected by COVID. You remember the fucker who was caught beating up on the elderly? The entire reason that little shit was with them was because of this order.

This isn't about saving lives, they are literally trying to kill as many people possible, in the hopes that they can score some political points off of it.

[darkflame]

And for what it's worth, I'm sorry for your loss. Being isolated like that is a horrible thing.

[Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)]

I’m really mad that my friend had to die feeling not only his body give up on him, but probably also the worst loneliness and isolation he’d ever known in his life. And I’m really mad for all the families of people who were not allowed to say goodbye to loved ones…

I promised my mother just 2 days ago that if she were to get sick, I would not let her die without holding her hand. She has been holed up in her retirement community outside Chicago, but I will probably have to move her to Texas just to make sure that doesn't happen. I would seriously pull a full Dark Knight-Joker act if I had to get into a hospital that wouldn't let me touch her.

The Governors and their bureaucrats who have done this shit need to go to prison for crimes against humanity.

[darkflame]

Amen to that.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Peaceful protests rule Tuesday.

Everything had been looted out.

[darkflame]

I find it hilarious that the Philly mayor is asking for the National Guard to leave, saying "we don't need them" when Philly's been one of the worst areas for looting, and both last night and the previous night, you have had BOMBS going off as people use them to rob ATMs.

[Bearded Spock]

I often can't find what I want at Target even when they are fully stocked, let alone after their inventory has been involuntarily redistributed in the name of Racial Justice.

[Don Mynack]

The entire walk over to the church was moronic, as were the protests before it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

This whole thing has become theater. Good thing state governments didn't force entire businesses to shut down and close up permanently the last couple of months, or we might have real problems.

I'm particularly excited to see if Corona-chan plants a big, sloppy kiss on the masses of protesters and police.

[Earth Skeptic]

Come on, politics has always been mostly about theater, at least the public side. But it used to have better production values, actors, and story lines.

[Nonstopdrivel]

I don't think we're going to see any significant bump in cases. It wasn't old fogeys out there rioting, and the weather is only getting hotter.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I don't think so, either, to be honest, and most of the people who do catch the coof aren't going to get laid up by it.

Wonder how many of these same galaxy-brains were posting Darwin memes during the "end the lockdown" protests a month ago.

[Gray_Jay]

"Wonder how many of these same galaxy-brains were posting Darwin memes during the “end the lockdown” protests a month ago."

Shit, it sounded like all of them. Remember the incipient schadenfreud during all of the pictures of Spring Breakers giving the finger to the man in places like Daytona and Panama City Beach?

"You're going to die!!!! And you'll kill us all! There oughta be a law!"

Pepperidge Farms remembers...

[JohannesDinkle]

I agree. Even the Episcopalian clergy don't believe in God any more than do Trump or the protesters. It was an attack on a place that has been converted from a church to a Progressive think tank - which is why the Trump visit was more provocative than the fire.

[R Mac]

It’s definitely note worthy that the church spokesman didn’t say shit about the church being burned but got upset that Trump walked over to it for a photo op.

And I think it was a dumb idea.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Heretics! If only a group of true believers would arise to put an end to them; no one would expect that.

[mulched]

I see what you did there.

[Mother's lament]

"the Episcopalian clergy don’t believe in God any more than do Trump or the protesters"
They were probably baffled by the strange black book Trump was waving around.

[Bearded Spock]

Trump is a reality tv star. He gets it.

The Media keep acting as if this is all serious.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The protestors have now spent over an hour marching through the city, passing DEA, FBI and Army, along with D.C. Police. Every agency let them go by without incident, every time.

And everyone's day was RUINED.

[Longtobefree]

Maybe because they were protesters PEACEFULLY ASSEMBLING, and not rioters and looters?
Maybe? Just maybe?

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

Amazing how most non-journalists, non-wokesters understand the distinction?

[R Mac]

Racist!

[bobby oshea]

I, for one, think that there is a significant difference between popping smoke and using tear gas. And I think reporting it correctly is important.

[damikesc]

This is why you do not write for Reason.

Also, you don't want to slum it quite so hard by writing for Reason.

[Mike Drop]

You can offer bobby a job at your journalism venture.

[damikesc]

I prefer a useful occupation.

[R Mac]

Sush. We got a narrative, and that’s not part of it’s update.

[Mike Drop]

Did you miss the part about pepper?

[Earth Skeptic]

And did you miss that day in school about objective facts, accurate definitions, and non-fiction writing? Or was that the optional Alinsky workshop week?

[R Mac]

Pretty sure he’s still in school. On the remedial path. So they’ll probably never even teach him any of that.

[Mother's lament]

Okay you dishonest fuck. Lets give you a choice between getting hit with liquid capsaicin in a paint ball or breathing in a lungfull's worth of chlorobenzalmalononitrile.

Come on, which would you choose. Don't pretend like there isn't a difference.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Welch should leave NYC and just switch to cocaine. Much cheaper and safer alternative.

[Mike Drop]

No way Matt Welch is going to use some retro, non-designer drug like cocaine unless it is ironically.

[damikesc]

"You see the difference? Not really? It doesn't matter. We're talking about this right now, and that's what Trump boosters and predator-cop stans want."

Seems ENB is salty because she was shown to not know what he fuck she is talking about.

Libertarians Against Facts!!

[Mike Drop]

She definitely shows signs of not wanting to correct herself, but she did correct the reporting. And it is a fair point that the eyewitnesses who said they were being tear gassed didn’t know that they were being pepper sprayed, not tear gassed.

[damikesc]

People being wrong is hardly news.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

It doesn't matter if most media or even most Americans don't really buy the administration's deflections and lies.

The lies don't seem like lies with the right mixture of Droxy and Adderall.

[Mike Drop]

Bonus, you get to hear the adoring voices of the SILENT MAJORITY! In your head, late at night while you’re sitting on the toilet, tweeting.

[Finrod]

Fuck off and die, jackhole.

[bs]

Nothing says liberty like looting! Rioters are the best kind of peaceful protesters. 50 years of progressive rule is really too short to do anything about racial justice. #ReparationsNow

[De Oppresso Liber]

It's so funny when you mental deficients lay out exactly how you see the world in strict dichotomies.

[bs]

Hi Delta! Of course only the enlightened few can understand there is absolutely no difference between a peaceful protest and riots. Look, those buildings were asking for it. That woman in a wheelchair is a fucking oppressor. That 77 year old defending a pawn shop from being robbed deserved it; he was an ex-cop after all.

It's all gray man. There's no difference at all.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You're still doing it, lol.

[bs]

Hi Delta!

Are you contributing to the bail for all of those peaceful protesters?

All shades of gray, man.

[JesseAz]

This comment didn't work for you yesterday. Didn't today either. But kudos for persistence.

[Mother's lament]

Is Nuttplug trying to make a joke about deplorables?

When the Sans-culottes eventually get a hold of his fat ass, he'll burn like a candle for a week.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/hashtag/DavidDorn?src=hashtag_click

St. Louis needs help finding the monster who shot Captain David Dorn.

#DavidDorn spent for 40 years protecting people and did not deserve to die the way he did.

This man had a family and they had to watch him lay in cold blood on TV.

[damikesc]

BUT, he was a cop. So he probably had it coming, right?

Yes, I am auditioning to write for this site. If Dalmia can do it, anybody with a pulse (and a few without one) can.

[Bearded Spock]

I follow several accounts on Lefty Twitter, primarily to read the Biden Hate.

They've made it clear that they believe "pigs are pigs" no matter what color.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Collateral damage man. Insurance will cover it. Cops must die. We're protesting!

The irony is the cop has been arrested. The wheels of justice has begun.

They should have waited until it finished but these are times where people just jump and react.

These are superstitious times. Low Middle-Ages.

To me, the lockdown wasn't science. It was stupidity. A reaction to incompetence and reliance on faulty models.

We're supposed to be so much smarter than those icky people in Medieval times yet from what I see? We're worse. At least they had Scholasticism. We have Critical Theory.

[Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)]

#DavidDorn spent for 40 years protecting people and did not deserve to die the way he did.

You are going to need to cite some sources before making that kind of unqualified statement. Could be he was targeted by someone that knows better.

[bs]

And wanted a new tv.

[Minadin]

Thanks for the link, saw this in that hash tag list:

https://twitter.com/VoldemortsFeet/status/1268032522052648972

(Antifa rioter gets his incendiary device tossed back into his own car by a peaceful protester)

[Nardz]

Nice

[R Mac]

So, still going with “Libertarians Against Property Rights”?

Hmm, LAPR? Not great. Have to work on this.

[damikesc]

Make it Libertarians Against Rights to Property"

LARPing seems more accurate to describe this place.

[R Mac]

Yeah but that’s already taken. Do you want to see Welch in tights and a doublet? Although I bet ENB already owns several bodices.

[BYODB]

In fact, yes, that would be magnificent.

[Bearded Spock]

To most of the white protesters, this is just a chance to cosplay the 1960s.

[Fist of Etiquette]

More evidence that Sweden's strategy of avoiding lockdown failed...

They had to fail. NO. MATTER. WHAT.

[damikesc]

ENB still working hard to insure you are ONLY allowed to go outside if you want to loot shit.

[Juice]

Even though Sweden's numbers are in the middle of a pack of a bunch of countries that went into very strict lockdown, the "fact" that the strategy "failed" will be repeated until it is truth.

[Echo Chamber]

Exactly. Sweden has rocketed up the deaths per millions charts from 9th place in Europe back in late March to 5th now. Total failure.
There was also an article on this site awhile ago pointing out that Norway does not include deaths in nursing homes in their body counts.

[darkflame]

Yep, always a problem when one tries to track stuff between countries, they never have a uniform system. And that's before stuff like politics gets involved (China, Iran), or countries who just don't have the resources or capabilities (ex: most of Africa) to properly track this shit. Hell, the US leaves the top 10 in deaths and infection rate if you take NY City out of the mix.

A perfect example of this is any time someone tries to bring up the murder rate between the US and the UK for a gun control argument, they completely ignore that the UK doesn't track murders (or rapes, assaults, etc). It tracks murder CONVICTIONS. There is no tracking of actual number of murders. It also tracks the dates on murder convictions, so if you had a prolific serial killer who's been acting for decades, and he gets convicted, that one year gets all the murders. Finally, they only track this in Wales and England, not N. Ireland and Scotland. Guess which 2 areas of the UK are believed to have a higher violence rate?

[bs]

Narratives take work and Vox is laying off. It's a tough market out there so you've got to prove to your future masters you've got what it takes.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

Last night's protests against police abuse went down with way fewer hitches than the night before,

Those "hitches" being looting, rampant property destruction, and acts of violence?

Jeebus, the writers here have gotten pathetic.

[Finrod]

More pathetic.

[Briggie]

All this Obama nostalgia I see online is starting to get irksome. Is unrest during the occupy movement and the Ferguson riots Not a thing anymore?

[Juice]

Dude. I saw "liberals" getting nostalgic about George W. Bush yesterday. Again.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

Republicans stop being LITERALLY HITLER when they criticize other Republicans or die.

[BYODB]

^ This.

We would have to note Romney is a hero now instead of a racist that wants to bring the cold war back.

[Mother's lament]

Here's why:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/634b6a13e43af85c2d48f548d026ffe88beb6d8a5399cd425522721dd069cb1f.png

[Unicorn Abattoir]

They never happened. Nothing bad ever happened when Obama was in office. LITERALLY. NO. SCANDALS.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Derek Chauvin, the now-former Minneapolis police officer who pressed George Floyd's head into the pavement with his knee until Floyd died, has now been charged by Minnesota prosecutors with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter...

I don't think it's possible based on the description of his crime, but still I hope that the man isn't railroaded to appease the mob.

[Gray_Jay]

He's being treated like how one of us would be in that situation. Which probably is some degree of railroading, but whatever.

We had a similar case in North Harris County, involving restraining someone until they croaked from positional asphyxia. https://abc13.com/terry-thompson-video-trial-john-hernandez-verdict/4640151/

Important differences were, the killer wasn't an on-duty cop, and I think everyone in this case was likely under some degree of intoxication. Victim was a drunken shithead pissing against the side of a Denny's. Victim did not appreciate being called a drunken shithead, fought, and he lost. Don't choke people out, if you don't know what you're doing.

First trial hung 11-1. For acquittal. Retrial found him guilty, and gave him 25 years.

[Echo Chamber]

... and he was charged with those crimes last week.
Try to keep up, ENB

[bs]

But did the NYT times tweet that he had been charged? If it's not in Mother Jones, it didn't happen.

[Nardz]

The prosecutor in his case is tweeting pictures with the antifa handbook.
I'm sure that won't cause any appealable issues

[Longtobefree]

Really? Citing the Washington Post, and Twitter?
So much for the free minds part - - - - - - - - -

[Freddy the Jerk]

ENB's citation list also includes the NYT, Vox and Salon. Such diversity.

[R Mac]

Don’t forget CNN.

[Longtobefree]

I try very, very hard to forget CNN.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Is that the Cartoon Network Network?

[R Mac]

Comical Narrative Network.

[Mother's lament]

To be fair she doesn't deliberately limit herself to the Minitrue outer party organs. It's just that those are the only ones that appear in her Twitter feed.

[Mike Drop]

Perhaps you can give Reason a list of approved right-wing news sources, so they can report only news that doesn’t disturb your worldview.

[Finrod]

Perhaps you can go fuck off and die. You'd be better for the environment as plant food.

[Dillinger]

you hate plants?

[De Oppresso Liber]

Typical right wing faux conservative response: Information I don't like make the primal, reptilian parts of the brain angry/fearful! Respond to outsider with rage!

[bs]

Hi Delta!

You mean the way you discounted the reporting from WTOP and the federalist yesterday? Funny, you don't strike me as very right wing.

[bs]

Vox and Salon are the best sources for #RUSSIA conspiracy theories. And then there's Mother Jones...

[JesseAz]

Mike, do you still believe the sources listed above got nothing wrong the last 3 years? Because by implication, that is what you are saying.

[MikeT1986]

Has any source been 100% over a 3 year period?

[Longtobefree]

"even most Americans don't really buy the administration's deflections and lies"

His current average approval rating is 42.6 percent; from Newsweek no less.

[Knutsack]

Let's say ENB is doing this for clicks. Does that mean I don't need to donate to Reason? I mean, they're getting ad revenue, right? I just need to keep clicking like ENB is goading me into doing, and everything should be peachy keen.

[Gray_Jay]

Why in Hell are you donating your hard-earned money to this rag? Since Balko left, and Sullum has strayed away from his usually well-written Drug War pieces, what exactly do they do that indicates they deserve a single dime of your money?

[Freddy the Jerk]

Stossel. Sometimes Soave. I like that food guy too, but they just reprint him, right? And Bagge (sp?). Remey is a treasure.

Day-to-day writing (Binion, Shikha, Welch et al.) barely rises to Vox level.

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

You forgot Boehm. He's awful.

[R Mac]

Narrative imploding!

[BYODB]

I still like reading Bailey on occasion, although mostly because he's the only author here who will wade into the comments. Certainly not because I agree with him very often. Also it's always hilarious to read transhumanist tripe.

[bs]

A childless boomer atheist facing his own mortality is kinda sad.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

She is just doing her part to keep the commentariat happy. If it weren't for her effort we all might come to agreement and be miserable.

[Gray_Jay]

OK. There is a certain value in throwing red meat into the chimp enclosure. Point taken.

[Don't look at me!]

I feel that because I am spending time here, no need to send money.

[Mike Drop]

Like you were going to donate any money, anyway.

[bs]

Like you gave Trump a chance.

[Mike Drop]

Three plus years of giving him a chance. He does or says something insane pretty much every day lately.

[Nardz]

As credible as Julie Swetnick

[Knutsack]

That seems a bit presumptuous on your part. I'd expect nothing less.

[Ra's al Gore]

http://lileks.com/bleats/archive/20/0620/060320.html

Anyway: I think a lot about that video I showed on Monday, the white losers breaking into the Dollar Store, getting angry with the resident who was filming them and telling them not to do it because he was stanning for a corporation, you fucking cunt.

...You know why they call it the Dollar Store? Because that’s what stuff costs, and the people who go there know it, and when they have X numbers of dollars for the week, that matters. Oh by all means everyone joke about how they chose the wrong place to loot, what do they want, lousy party goods?

A person can get a bottle of shampoo or soap for a dollar. A person can get a six-pack of sausages for a dollar. A person can get a kitchen tool for a dollar. A person can get a toy for their child for a dollar. A person can get a book for a dollar.

You stand there dressed in bespoke black gear to demonstrate your auth-en-tic-ity and you loot a Dollar Store and upbraid someone who lives in the neighborhood for “stanning” a chain store because you hate CAPITALISM, MAN, when it was that very system that brought food and goods to the neighborhood.

oH bUt iT drOve oUt a lOcAl BuSineSs

Even if that was the case, let's just say you're not the best person to make that case, having participarting in the elimination of all the other local businesses.

...They will suffer no consequences. Years later, in the proper circles, they will regale their peers with tales of their involvement of the Revolution. If they apply for nice jobs they will never fear that an arrest record will taint them, or admit to their bosses that they believe the system should be dismantled at 1 AM by men in masks if the zesty zeitgeist of the evening demands it.

That's assuming they don't get their revolution. If they do, they will be purged in the first wave, since the new regimes generally get rid of the weak and the useless. Sorry, Comrade. It's not personal. It's just business.

[Freddy the Jerk]

Damn, that's some fine writing. Get that dude(ette) to do the Morning Links.

[Compelled Speechless]

"This is the same tactic we've seen again and again from the Trump administration: deny, shift stories, and quibble over inane particulars."

It's also the same tactic used by every single member of congress, the senate, every state governor and basically everyone in the corporate media. If Trump can be said to truly have a useful quality, it's that he's able to do exactly what everyone else in politics is doing in a way that's so obvious and grating that he exposes what's really going on and reveals how infuriating it is. I like to think of his whole shtick as a brilliant performance art piece, I'm just not sure that he's aware of it.

[Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)]

that's what Trump boosters and predator-cop stans want

Is ENB letting SPB ghost write the round-up these days? Because that doesn't read as a REASONable viewpoint.

[Sevo]

"Former Commanders Fault Trump’s Use of Troops Against Protesters "
[...]
"WASHINGTON — Retired senior military leaders condemned their successors in the Trump administration for ordering military units Monday to rout those peacefully protesting police violence near the White House...."
https://www.news-journal.com/former-commanders-fault-trump-s-use-of-troops-against-protesters/article_f80cad8e-a541-11ea-82f8-3395e20f1533.html

It's an NYT feed.
Editor to squib: 'See if you can find some anti-Trump former military!'

[Derp-o-Matic 6000]

So is Joe Biden attending George Floyd's funeral just a photo op?

[Unicorn Abattoir]

No. Joe's confused, and wondering why George Floyd hasn't played "Another Brick In The Wall" yet.

[Dillinger]

Joe is waiting for the worms.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

"Oh, I need a dirty girl" is Joe's favorite lyrics. Explains the hair sniffing.

[Echo Chamber]

"More than 1.7 million firearms were sold in the U.S. last month, up 80 percent compared to last May"
Sounds like a rationale response when it's clear the government won't defend you when mobs are on the loose.

[Ra's al Gore]

My extra ammo should come today.

[Freddy the Jerk]

Just picked up a Mossberg 500 pump on request of my wife. Waiting with bated breath for protestors to come through my flatland farming community...

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

Voice of America

Four Extremist Groups Suspected of Involvement in Protest Violence

White supremacists

Although many white supremacists don't advocate violence, a growing number of individuals inspired by far-right ideology have carried out deadly shootings in recent years. The violent elements of the far right are known as “accelerationists” because they seek to accelerate a race war.

Boogaloo Boys

A relatively new incarnation of the anti-government militia movement, the Boogaloo Boys are an online community of pro-gun activists who advocate for a second boogaloo, their term of choice for civil war.

Antifa
Depending on whom you ask, antifa, short for anti-fascist, is a movement of far-left activists opposed to neo-Nazis and other extremist groups or, as one critic put it, an "extreme anarchist-communist movement."

Organizing on social media, antifa followers show up at right-wing rallies dressed in black and wearing masks and often engage in violent confrontations.

Antifa sympathizers were among counter-protesters at the 2017 "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, that turned violent.

https://www.voanews.com/usa/four-extremist-groups-suspected-involvement-protest-violence

Roll call!

[bs]

You forgot #RUSSIA.

[Echo Chamber]

"Four Extremist Groups Suspected ..."
Maybe I need more coffee, but I only see 3 listed. Who is the 4th?
Media?
Politicians?
Reason commentariat?

[Sevo]

You expect turd to read his own links?

[MikeT1986]

Anarchists, unlike the AnCap leaning Boog Bois and the AnCom leaning Antifa.

[MikeT1986]

A relatively new incarnation of the anti-government militia movement, the Boogaloo Boys are an online community of pro-gun activists who advocate for a second boogaloo, their term of choice for civil war.

No-no-no it's "Civil War 2 - Electric Boogaloo" not "Boogaloo 2" please, get the memery right.

[R Mac]

Not only can the left not meme, they don’t even repeat them correctly.

[MikeT1986]

And since that crowd is largely spregy shit posters there's a ton of memes.

[Ron]

All other news outlets this morning on tv were saying violence was down because of the increased police presence and the earlier curfew ENB must not have gotten the message, she's still not one of the in crowd

[Killjoy]

"All other outlets".

What I'm seeing is a lot of outlets depicting a sometimes larger but more generally *less confrontational* and more measured police presence as key.

[Ra's al Gore]

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy describes Reason Magazine as: "A bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes."

Curiously, an edition of the Encyclopedia Galactica which fell through a rift in the time-space continuum from 1000 years in the future describes Reason Magazine as: "A bunch of mindless jerks who were the first against the wall when the revolution came."

[darkflame]

nice

[Rufus The Monocled]

So. If using the military is not a good idea and tear gas is seen as excessive, what can be done to deal with the violent looters? Let them run amok?

[Bearded Spock]

The market will sort this out. Government intervention is not the answer.

[Gray_Jay]

Those rioters had better watch out! Mr. Lee's robodogs won't take any guff!

It's all so tiresome.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

I agree, armed business owners seem to do a better job at protecting their property then government agents do.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Then don't arrest them. Castle theory and all that.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Yeah that is a bitch and if I am on a jury I am nullifying any charge against a business owner who protects their store*. But they are better at it then the government agents, they just don't get the same defense even though we are a nation of ONE LAW.

*within reason, which is broad by my standards but a hypothetical business owner who lobs hands grenades into the street won't get it.

[StackOfCoins]

Only use smoke grenades on members of the clergy, right??

[Killjoy]

Actual looters, actual arsonists, actual vandals, should be treated as such, and met with the full force of the law.

This seems to be a hard distinction for some to grasp.

[bs]

You in particular.

[Killjoy]

Um... I'm not the one who isn't mentally capable of condemning mayhem and destruction of property without applying the broad brush to anyone who "dares" exercise their rights to assembly and speech as protected by the First Amendment.

[bs]

Clearly you are because you disagreed with the original post. Here, let me help you:

So. If using the military is not a good idea and tear gas is seen as excessive, what can be done to deal with the violent looters? Let them run amok?

[Echo Chamber]

It's much easier to throw (rhetorical) rocks than propose alternative approaches for stopping arson and looting

[Gray_Jay]

Why do you want anything done to the looters, ahem! I'm sorry, protesters? What are you, some kind of propertarian, or something? This is an important protest! You have insurance, right?

200 arrests at the march led by Floyd's family, yesterday and last night. No news of bad looting, as opposed to the odd broken window here and there. I'm surprised.

Floyd's funeral is going to be held out in the far S suburbs of Houston in a few days, the service with Biden attending. Public service will be held Monday, 8 June, at Fountains of Praise, Hillcroft and W. Orem. Basically Hillcroft and the Belt. There's another service, that probably will be the one Biden attends, and that looks like it's going to be off Highway 6, just west of 288.

Both are kind of in the middle of nowhere, as far as most of Houston is concerned. Good. I hope they go peacefully and that his family finds some measure of comfort.

[StackOfCoins]

the service with Biden attending

Gross. Do blacks really believe Biden's bullshit? Like he cares about them beyond how many votes they can provide? Did Biden show up to a bunch of other funerals of black people murdered by cops?

[damikesc]

If he isn't there, they ain't really black.

[R Mac]

If he’s not there, Floyd won’t even be buried!

[Gray_Jay]

His family, the same people who raised a drug-abusing thief and home invader, probably think it will do wonders for their chances of a fat GoFundMe, some sweet no-show jobs with Harris County, and maybe an interview with the celebrity newscaster du jour.

[Compelled Speechless]

Did anyone else notice that she's posting "bad news" about Sweden's COVID numbers that states that basically states that because there was no lockdown, there was 0.81 more deaths per MILLION more than the the next country. Every other country did on that list, I believe had severe economic lockdowns. They're also showing that even in the worst cases, COVID is only killing around 5 people per MILLION. They're treating this as a gotcha. Seriously.

I'll bet the economic devastation ends up causing more than one suicide per million in the rest of those countries. I'm still going to go with advantage: not totalitarianism.

[Rufus The Monocled]

You would think Reason would avoid crap seeking to paint Sweden in a poor light given they actually approached the corona pandemic with some enlightened restraint. That they displayed a modicum of respect for civil liberties.

But nope. They seem to go full 'sheep derp'.

Weird.

[Compelled Speechless]

Less than an increase of 1 per MILLION! That is the cost of freedom? That's assuming any of these numbers are even very accurate. You know who that one actually is? Someone who statistically will die in the next two years anyway. I will happily purchase that lotto ticket that I'm not that one if it means we all get to keep living our lives. Sorry if that makes me a selfish murderer.

[Rufus The Monocled]

It's too bad Sweden is wavering. No sooner do I mount a lame ass defuse of Sweden Tegnell goes soft on me! /waves fist.

There are 380 000 deaths in the world. A good majority of those in the 70+ demographic?

I agree. I don't think even with the spike it was worth the lockdown - unless they can SHOW the lockdowns did in fact prevent massive misery and deaths.

[Rufus The Monocled]

defense.
Auto-spell acts really weird.

[Fats of Fury]

In Chicago, Hispanic gangs are patrolling their neighborhoods and beating not only looters but vandalizing the cars of any blacks driving through. By the time the MSM gets to report on this assume they'll be White Hispanics.

[Ra's al Gore]

Another 'benefit' of the riots; criminal gangs become the go-to groups for physical protection in poor neighborhoods. Yea, people in the neighborhoods affected will be oh so more willing to rat them out later for violence after this.

[darkflame]

Tim Poole mentioned the other day that the Latin Kings were enforcing order in the areas they control. Ya know what, good on them.

[Sevo]

White-supremicist-hispanics.

[Juice]

https://www.reddit.com/r/N_N_N/comments/gvpe5t/if_you_do_not_move_you_will_be_dead_swat/

There was plenty of room to go around at Tiananmen Square.

[Dillinger]

who's gonna get vaccinated for a dead cold virus?

[Ra's al Gore]

Looters Break Into Philly Gun Store. It Doesn't Go Well for Them.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2020/06/02/looters-breaks-into-philly-gun-store-it-doesnt-go-well-for-them-n485130

[Killjoy]

It's amazing how many of you can't seem to maintain an absolutely justifiable disdain and disgust for looters and arsonists in your head without distinguishing them from people who are protesting without engaging in violence, looting, arson, etc.

[Killjoy]

Too many attempts at editing before posting, should have read:

It’s amazing how many of you can’t seem to maintain an absolutely justifiable disdain and disgust for looters and arsonists in your head without *conflating* them from people who are protesting without engaging in violence, looting, arson, etc.

It's as if in order to condemn the bad actors, you must mentally dismiss the entire thing.

Almost like the people out there who can't condemn the bad actors in law enforcement without spinning vast yarns about "systemic racism" and painting all cops as oppressors.

[R Mac]

Peaceful protesting is good. Happy now? Nah, you’re gonna keep crying aren’t you?

[Gray_Jay]

How much peaceful protesting is going on at 11 PM, on the eighth day of rioting, and how much is getting their Christmas shopping done early?

If you're a peaceful protester marching for whatever reason of conscience motivates you, and you notice the people next to you have gas masks, bricks, crowbars, Molotovs, etc... then it just might be time to call it a day, and get the fuck out. If after that, you keep marching, and end up catching a rubber bullet to the face, I've got no pity for you.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Tribalists gotta tribe.

[R Mac]

Still waiting on your cite where Trump called himself King Lying Jeffy.

[Dillinger]

>>from people who are protesting

I can. the fuck are they protesting?

[Killjoy]

The murder of George Floyd by a uniformed police officer, while three other officers watched in silence, for starters. It's been in the news a bit.

[bs]

Just like all the rioting and violence from "peaceful protestors" which you can't seem to find.

[Dillinger]

that was over when the precinct was torched. what now?

[darkflame]

For starters, if they actually cared so much, these liberal fucks could go their liberal mayor, and liberal governor, and liberal city council, in the state that they OWN, and demand that police immunity and unions be made illegal. That cops have to pay legal fees out of their own pockets instead of taxpayer dollars. They own all the levers of power, and choose to do nothing. They don't want change, they want to be victims. That's especially true of all the white protesters who just want to virtue signal to show how cool they are.

And secondly, after the second night of riots last week, it should have become clear to any legitimate protesters that they were being used to cause violence and chaos. That they were helping people commit violence. Now, granted, in some locations, there hasn't been violence, or the protesters realized what was happening and started working with the cops to catch anyone trying to be violent, and stopped protesting once it got dark. Good on them. But that hasn't been the majority. If by their logic silence is being racist, then protesting is being a fucking looter.

[Minadin]

I would be ok if they just passed a law that said that the settlements came out of the police union operating budget and / or the police pension fund.

[lap83]

Capitalism, lack of oxygen to their brains in utero, insufficient cake, etc.

[Dillinger]

Cake I would riot over.

[Bearded Spock]

Are you talking to the commenters, or the Reason staff?

And the main reason people conflate the two is because numerous videos have clearly shown "peaceful protesters" can easily switch into "violent rioters" and back within minutes, depending on how many cops are around and how aggressive they are allowed to be.

[Killjoy]

Numerous videos also show police clearly instigating that violence in some instances. Which videos are we to believe, the ones that make us comfortable with a simple and absolute position, or the ones that make us question our assumptions either way?

[bs]

Numerous videos show "peaceful protesters" burning, looting, assaulting. Strange that you can never seem to find them.

So since you're being all rational, what exactly should happen to Chauvin? There's only one right answer here and I don't expect you to find it.

[Killjoy]

Yes, videos show people engaged in stupid, destructive, criminal behavior. I've seen them. We've all seen them.

There are those, however, who seem incapable of condemning the people in those videos, without vehemently insisting that everyone attending protests is also engaged in that same sort of nonsense.

It takes a handful of bad cops to make all cops look bad. It takes a handful of idiots to make a protest look bad.

[Echo Chamber]

Overwhelming numbers of protestors are just that, protestors. Hurray for them. Bad actors are using them as cover to do bad things. What's your solution for preventing the burning/looting?
Letting people protest all day to their hearts content but then go home at night seems a reasonable compromise to me.
But no, let's keep giving cover to bad actors cuz reasons

[Nardz]

"while three other officers watched in silence,"
"There are those, however, who seem incapable of condemning the people in those videos, without vehemently insisting that everyone attending protests is also engaged in that same sort of nonsense."

[John]

Not all of them did that. The ones who did not came to offer cover and support to those who did.

[Sevo]

"...There are those, however, who seem incapable of condemning the people in those videos, without vehemently insisting that everyone attending protests is also engaged in that same sort of nonsense..."

You should find those people and gripe to them, rather than virtue-signal here.

[R Mac]

I can’t think of a topic that’s caused these progs to consistently shit out the same straw man over and over.

[Sevo]

Dunno. "Free" medical care is often compared to letting people die in the streets, as we do now.
/sarc

[bs]

Stop confusing the voices in your head with real people. You're going to have to provide some citation to back up this claim that there are "those, however, who seem incapable of condemning the people in those videos, without vehemently insisting that everyone attending protests is also engaged in that same sort of nonsense."

And you still haven't answered my question about Chauvin. I knew you wouldn't be able.

[JesseAz]

It's amazing how you basically dance around among so many strawmen and not realize they are made of straw.

[NashTiger]

You know what? fvck the Peaceful Protestors, too. Because there is absolutely no need for them. Not saying they don't have a Right to do so, I'm saying fvck them. Because there is no reason for 9 days of protests over something that happened 8 states away, especially since THE ACCUSED IS IN CUSTODY and , especially since everyone knows the Peaceful Protests are cover for riotous evil scum.

If people are still protesting Governor Whitmer's lockdowns by clogging the streets of Lansing, weeks after the lockdowns are over, and they are open carrying while criminals use their protests as cover to murder indiscriminately every day, then fvck them too. There is no need for that, either

[Ken Shultz]

"There is no reason for 9 days of protests over something that happened 8 states away, especially since THE ACCUSED IS IN CUSTODY"

And no one is standing up for the accused. Everyone on right and left has condemned the cop.

It's almost as if this isn't really about George Floyd--like it wasn't about Rodney King.

The peaceful protests are about Rodney King.

The riots are about unemployment, the lock downs, and the recession.

[Nardz]

Totes
Organized Marxist assholes have nothing to do with it

[bs]

The riots are about achieving a glorious new revolution where the white oppressors and the shackles of the capitalist slavery are finally ground into dust as they deserve.

And inside that Harvard-grade bullshit are the corrupt dem bosses that know that they can ride this tiger for a long time, possibly forever as long as the keep around enough christianskulaksbourgeausie... to pin the blame on. And Reason thinks they'll get to be part of the Mandarins under them.

[Nardz]

+100000 Nash

[Dillinger]

>> fvck the Peaceful Protestors, too

word.

[Ra's al Gore]

Cuomo Blasts Bill de Blasio for Refusing National Guard’s Help: ‘Inexcusable’
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/02/cuomo-blasts-bill-de-blasio-for-refusing-national-guards-help-inexcusable/

[Ra's al Gore]

Can we also defund the cops that enforce tax laws? Wasn't a black man killed by the cops for selling loose, untaxed cigs?

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2020/06/02/john-legend-natalie-portman-other-celebs-sign-letter-to-defund-police/
John Legend, Natalie Portman Other Celebs Sign Letter to Defund Police

[Ra's al Gore]

The left: you don't need a gun; you have the police.

Also the left: get rid of the police.

[Killjoy]

Indeed, it's always "amusing" to hear the same people tell us "Private individuals don't need the capacity to defend themselves, that's the role of the police as the legitimate wielders of force in society's name"... and then tell us "The police are horrible and can't be trusted with the power they've been given".

Which is it?

(Never mind that court after court has ruled that the police have no obligation to protect you, only to make their best effort to clean up afterwards.)

[I, Woodchipper]

It's neither of course. they are always wrong.

[StackOfCoins]

Leftist celebs are stupid. Also tonight: water is wet.

[damikesc]

Chrissy Teigen must have fucked the stupid into Legend.

[Ra's al Gore]

Literally fucked his brains out?

[Longtobefree]

As long as defunding the police also outlaws all private security for the lefty gazillionaires, it good.

[Echo Chamber]

For a change of pace, why don't the reporters embed with the police instead of the protestors? It might add a little variety to their day to be pelted with rocks, batteries, water bottles, and urine instead of pepper stray, tear gas, rubber bullets, and paintballs.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Cops are too busy beating up the press to let reporters embed.

https://time.com/5846497/journalists-police-george-floyd-protests/

[Sevo]

From your link:

"Assault category breakdown:
45 physical attacks (30 by police)
30 tear gassings
17 pepper sprayings
46 rubber bullet/projectiles"

The later 3 you can forget; get in a crowd throwing stuff at cops, expect to get what the crowd gets.
So there are 30 (claimed) physical attacks by police on those (claiming to) identify themselves as press.
Pretty shaky stuff you got there, but that's hardly surprising. Your link last week regarding the efficacy of masks concluded they "MAY" help after you wetting your pants, claiming it was PROOF!

[Fats of Fury]

All of ENB's articles should be tagged "Sex and the Shitty".

[bs]

It Wasn't Tear Gas. It Was a Gaseous Substance That Causes Tears.

It was a lie, but truthful.

[NashTiger]

So, Trump Tower WAS wiretapped

[damikesc]

So the Lancet hydroxy study being bullshit didn't warrant a mention? Really?

I mean, the study changed policies on handling COVID, in spite of the company behind it, Surgisphere, having employees with little or no data or scientific background. You'd think that'd be newsworthy.

...well, if reporting news was your job. Not just pointlessly emoting.

[damikesc]

Until Monday, the link to put hospitals in touch with them led to a cryptocurrency site. CEO been involved in three medical malpractice suits.

And this BS study was "peer reviewed" showing how useful peer review has become.

[Echospinner]

Well can’t defend Desai. I think his being named in the malpractice suites is a rush to judgement. He is a vascular surgeon which is a high risk occupation. Also many of those suites are bogus and just list everyone on the chart.

So far as his company I cannot say from a few media articles. They are asking for an independent audit it looks like.

Personally I do not see a big downside to HCQ or Zinc whatever. I have yet to see a significant upside. If we are trying to find an effective therapy or prophylactic agent, keep looking.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/NoahPollak/status/1267929524840218626?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Incredible statement from a leader of the NYPD to the rank and file officers: "I know we are losing the city. We have no leadership, no direction, and no plan. I know you are being held back and used as pawns."

[darkflame]

Meanwhile, Deblasio and Cuomo are engaged in a slap fight on twitter. NY cops don't deserve much sympathy, but heaven knows that's one of the last places I'd want to be a cop if/when the dam breaks.

[Fats of Fury]

"We're on your side." - ENB

[damikesc]

That might be my favorite video this month and it's only the third. I only wish the rock hit the idiot in his head.

[Compelled Speechless]

It's called being an ally!

[Nardz]

Nice

[StackOfCoins]

I enjoyed that.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"HOOLLEEE SHIT!!!!"

LMAO.

[Ra's al Gore]

We should "Clockwork Orange" the Reason staff's eyeballs and make them watch this.

https://twitter.com/dbongino/status/1267966782356312064
“He’s gone, over some TVs”
Hard to watch. raw emotion. raw language. But when do we protest for this man’s family? Killed just doing his job. ????????

[De Oppresso Liber]

How is this relevant to the article above? An appeal to emotion to... what?

Or is this a logical argument: this man was killed by looters, therefor Trump didn't have protestors gassed so he could take an awkward photo with an upside down bible.

[damikesc]

Any proof, at all, Trump ordered it?

And when you see "protestors" turning violent, you don't have the luxury of assuming "Well, that guy looks nice".

Massively increased military presence stifled violence. That is simple reality.

[De Oppresso Liber]

So your comment has no relation to the thread above it, but I'll play along.

You could watch the videos, where Barr and the rest of them are waiting right across the street for the cops to clear them out. You could notice the timing of the police attacking the protestors and the photo op, and you might notice it is a little more than convenient. You could listen to Trump's words he made at the speech right before the tacky photo op, in which he promises to use the military against US citizens and use "incredible force".

Or you could listen to fox news, who quotes the administration, who notes that Barr did in fact make the order.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/barr-lafayette-square-trump-protest-remarks

[Nardz]

Haven't seen any protesters at Lafayette Park.
Have seen a violent mob there for days

[bs]

Hi Delta!

I see you're not reading your links again. You really need a better handler. Here, let me help!

But a senior Justice Department official told Fox News the decision was made early Monday morning after the Treasury Department and St. John’s Church -- which are both in the area -- were vandalized the night before.

The decision was first reported by the Washington Post.

On Monday afternoon, according to an official, Barr went to survey the scene. But after arriving, the source said, he was upset to find out the perimeter had not been widened like it was supposed to be earlier in the day. Barr, who was surrounded by his security detail, toured the police line keeping the protestors at bay while demonstrators shouted at him. The night before, fires were started and buildings were vandalized in the area.

Someone threw a bottle at Barr when he was there, the official said. He gave the order to move people out before the president arrived. Shortly after, police mounted on horses used smoke to move protesters demonstrating against police brutality.

Huh, so the order was given in response to the previous night's violence and while touring the site the "peaceful protesters" peacefully threw a peaceful bottle in a gesture of peace.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Peace bottles and peace bricks are popular these days.
Some of the peace bottles are filled with peace gas and carry the burning flame of peace.

[bs]

Hi Delta!

Given that you've been incapable of recognizing any wrongdoing by the rioters and looters, I can see why you're emotional when confronted with reality.

[NoVaNick]

Hard to believe anyone here can still support the POS POTUS or the democraps who have fully supported the militarisation of police, mass incarceration, and drug war for the past 30 years.

[Compelled Speechless]

Good point. We get so myopically focused on the news story of the moment that we forget that politicians, public unions and the media have been teaming up for decades to increase the power of state actors and decrease their accountability. All the while we're giving them less and less justifiable missions to use the power for. The problem of the decadent and despondent elite is real, but they dare not speak it's name.

[John]

In some ways I have more respect for the rioters than I do the “protesters”. At least the rioters have a sensible reason to be there. Stealing and looting is wrong but it at least makes sense why someone would do it. What sense is there is marching around screaming like a Congress of baboons?

[NoVaNick]

what sense is there screaming like a congress of baboons?

Same sense as there was for the vagina march, march for our lives, march for science. In other words, to throw feces at Trump which is what baboons do. In this case though, they conveniently ignore the fact that the democrats are every bit as responsible for police violence against Black people, if not more, than he is.

[Compelled Speechless]

Biden specifically. You can literally point to vast amounts of legislation with his name on it that has directly led to over-policing of the pour. For some reason I don't hear anyone who argues that he's the better option bringing that up. Does that inconvenient truth fall under "deny, shift stories, and quibble over inane particulars" ENB?

[damikesc]

So, the city that Welch cannot quit, that allows rioters to run amok...has decided that Hasidic Jews praying is just too far. Sent out cops last night to tell Jews they'd be arrested for breaking curfew and attending evening prayers.

Maybe they should have firebombed something.

LA is ALSO showing their priorities by shutting down....no, not protests. A pickup game of baseball. Two Karens parked a cart in the middle of the field and called the cops.

Players should've accidentally tossed a fastball at their heads.

[John]

It is the libertarian moment man.

[damikesc]

You know, amidst all of these articles about racism, maybe somebody should note that the Left seems, well, less than fond of Jewish folks.

...but they will still get their vote regardless.

[De Oppresso Liber]

ENB, did you read the exchange between Jesse and I yesterday and write an article about it?

https://reason.com/2020/06/02/confederate-monuments-are-participation-trophies-thankfully-some-are-coming-down/#comment-8281825

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/Eric_Schmitt/status/1268195075953176576

In a stunning development, our office has learned that every single one of the St. Louis looters and rioters arrested were released back onto the streets by local prosecutor Kim Gardner.

[damikesc]

It should be noted she didn't mention that to the State AG.

The one who tweeted that it was a stunning development.

Don't let the Left say they support protestors but not rioters. They are lying.

[darkflame]

Hmmm... perhaps we should be looing into Kim Gardner and who she supports.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

Waco-esqe!

Trump, Barr and company are going full Clinton, Reno, and company. It was not tear gas. It was not that tear gas. No incendiaries were fired. That agency did not commit that abuse. Military did not participate. All these denials are based on a reprehensible and disingenuous tactic of diving deep into the bureaucratese to find in the smallest print some weapons product code number or legalese distinction without a difference on which to hang a denial. While some of these denials mayn't in the most technical sense be lies, they are so intimate with lies that they've caught multiple venereal diseases from lies.

[bs]

Just because you lie, doesn't mean it's not true. Or so I've read.

[mad.casual]

It Wasn't Tear Gas. It Was a Gaseous Substance That Causes Tears.

*rips one*

[Longtobefree]

"It Wasn't Tear Gas. It Was a Gaseous Substance That Causes Tears."

Well, damn. A lot of the articles here, and most of the comments here fit that description.

[NOYB2]

You see the difference? Not really? It doesn't matter.

Yeah, truth clearly doesn't matter to you.

[strat]

One observation. While there may be some lay interpretation of what "tear gas" is, that includes OC, there are international legal standards that don't include it. They pretty much don't include _anything_ being used for riot control purposes domestically, but it's important, especially if active-duty military units or even the National Guard start flinging it, given the disappointing blurring that has occurred between what were supposed to be state militias and the armed forces.

I only mention it, because CS and CN, which _are_ "tear gas" are agents regulated under the OPCW.