Police Abuse

Riots May Be Destructive, but Abusive Policing Is Tyranny

"Rioting is a form of tyranny," Tucker Carlson said on his Fox News show. He's wrong.

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Since the killing of George Floyd by Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin—assisted by three murderously indifferent cop buddies—protests over abusive and lethal police conduct have spread across the country and turned destructive. Law-and-order types take that as an opening to shift the topic from the long, troubling history of law enforcement in this country to the excesses of the protesters. Conservative-populist pundit Tucker Carlson put the cherry on top of that tactic when he invoked the word "tyranny" and applied it not to government employees who deploy violence as a tool of first resort when terrorizing communities, but to those who turn violent in response.

"Rioting is a form of tyranny," Carlson said on his Fox News show. "The strong and the violent oppress the weak and the unarmed. It is oppression."

Ironically, Carlson illustrated his point with video of people attacking police cruisers of the sort driven by Officers Chauvin, Tou Thao, J Alexander Kueng, and Thomas K. Lane, all of whom had either pinned Floyd or held back concerned passersby attempting to intervene. Subsequently, the Minneapolis Police Department abandoned the besieged Third Precinct building where the four officers worked and it was rapidly set ablaze by an angry crowd. None of that seems like "tyranny" so much as it looks like violent pushback from members of the public tired of being tyrannized by abusive government enforcers who have a reputation for specifically targeting African Americans. It more closely resembled the 1854 attempted storming of the federal courthouse in Boston to free escaped slave Anthony Burns—during which a U.S. marshal was killed—than it did an exercise in oppression.

That's not to say all, or even the majority, of the crowd's ire in Minneapolis and elsewhere has been focused on cop cars and government buildings. Grocery stores have been torched, pawn shops smashed, pharmacies looted, private cars and residential buildings destroyed. These all represent significant investments and, often, needed sources of income for their owners. None of those owners had anything to do with the killing of George Floyd, and many of them are horrified by the incident and support the protests.

But protests aren't directed by mass minds, and their participants often have conflicting priorities and agendas. Some of the more violent rioters are opportunists, often traveling from elsewhere with their own missions.

"People from all corners of the country representing a patchwork of ideologies—some extreme—have increasingly turned up as the protests have grown in size and level of violence," reports the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. "Hennepin County jail logs showed arrests of people coming from Michigan, Missouri, Illinois and Florida. One suspect from Alaska had bragged online of coming to the protest with Molotov cocktails."

In response to the violence, some protesters have stepped in to protect businesses against others who are less discriminating in their anger, or who just want to steal and smash.

That hasn't been enough, though. Shopkeepers and property owners—many of them part of communities that have been targeted by the police—have had to take matters into their own hands to protect what belongs to them. They have every right to do so, though it hasn't been enough to prevent widespread damage and loss.

When the local hotheads and riot tourists are done doing their worst, they'll leave in their wake damaged neighborhoods with fewer jobs, businesses, and opportunities for buying and selling goods and services. Stores economically hobbled by the pandemic lockdowns and by voluntary decisions regarding social distancing and tighter family budgets will be less likely to rebuild than they might be in normal times.

As a result, communities protesting abusive police conduct and racist policing will be even more dependent on the government that employs those police. That will deprive them of a measure of the leverage they need to force changes in the way the powers-that-be govern and enforce their will. That's a shame, because there's a real problem in Minneapolis and elsewhere with the spiderweb of laws in which we're ensnared and the selective ways in which they are enforced.

"Black people were 8.7 times more likely than white people to be arrested for a low-level offense—any offense with a fine of $3,000 or less and/or a year or less in jail," the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Minnesota found in 2015. "Native Americans were 8.6 times more likely than white people to be arrested for such offenses."

The ACLU attributed the problem to both racial disparities and overcriminalization. For starters, there are too many bullshit excuses for hassling people; 70 percent of the low-level charges described by the ACLU involve such offenses as expired boat registration, no proof of car insurance, selling liquor without a license, littering, disorderly conduct, consuming in public, interfering with pedestrian traffic, loitering with intent to commit a narcotics offense, drug paraphernalia, truancy, and curfew violations. With such excuses in hand, some police officers are then prone to disproportionately wield their power against people they don't like, such as members of minority groups.

A multitude of laws enforced selectively is a national problem.

"On the opening day of law school, I always counsel my first-year students never to support a law they are not willing to kill to enforce," Yale Law School's Stephen L. Carter wrote in 2014 after New York City cops killed Eric Garner during a confrontation rooted in suspicion that he was illegally selling loose cigarettes. "I remind them that the police go armed to enforce the will of the state, and if you resist, they might kill you."

Whether death, or injury, or loss of liberty is the final result, the victims of a plague of laws and their enforcement might be anybody; the March killing of Duncan Lemp, who was white, by police in Montgomery County, Maryland excited anger and threats to arrest his family for protesting. But African-Americans notice that an awful lot of the victims of abusive policing look like Breonna Taylor, or Charles Kinsey, or Philando Castile, or George Floyd—black like them, or otherwise members of groups that often get the short end of the stick when it comes to law enforcement.

"Police arrested 40 people for social-distancing violations from March 17 through May 4," The New York Times reported last month. "Of those arrested, 35 people were black, four were Hispanic and one was white." Nobody was killed, fortunately, but some were punched or knocked to the ground. And while the arrests did provoke anger, no violence beyond the arrests themselves resulted.

But everybody has a breaking point.

When aimed at individuals and private property that have nothing to do with governing institutions or law enforcement, riots are certainly destructive, and counterproductive, and flat-out wrong, but they're not "tyranny," as Tucker Carlson and company would have it. That word—tyranny—should be reserved for governments that over-govern and over-police their subjects until they elicit rage.

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  1. What antifa wants qualifies as ‘tyranny’. If they (not the actual protesters with a real grievance) are rioting on behalf of the tyranny they want, then the label fits.

    1. The only people who fear anti-fascists are the fascists themselves!

      1. What the ANTIFA are doing is fascist at it’s core!!! Not only that, but these f’kn a$$wholes were bussed in to the cities to cause damage and hurt people! H*ll they even destroyed black owned businesses! The ANTIFA are terrorists!! Let there a$$e$ come into my neighborhood and start some s**t! We WILL protect our own!!!

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        2. Perhaps it’s time to remove police from the equation, and for regular citizens to oppose antifa using superior firepower and numbers. After that disposal, we can get back to normal.

      2. Hysterical! Keep ’em coming!!

      3. The problem with Antifa is that they utilize fascist tactics. Their action are repulsive and reminiscent of the brownshirts of Germany. They are acting and conducting themselves exactly like those who they claim to be against.

        In a civil society, if people do not police their own actions then the community will eventually begin to police their actions. I completely understand the rage and believe that the police need to clean up their act. That in a sense protests are the people are policing the police.

        Now we have the wanton destruction of property and violence. The peaceful protesters need to cleanup the bad apples among themselves. They need to police their ranks to eliminate the distractions, the damage and violence.

        What goes unrecognized is that the overwhelming majority of people across the country were upset, ashamed and embarrassed with the abuse of power leading to George Floyd’s death.

        The sad reality is the longer the rioting and looting takes place the more it takes the focus away from the story of George Floyd’s death. As a result it reduces the chances of meaningful change the longer the rioting and looting takes place.

        To the protestors who actually care about police abuse that unnecessary loss of life around the country including the death of George Floyd. Please take the opportunity to use words to build support. Talking and discussing is helpful without descending into name calling or jumping to conclusions.

        After all we are all humans and share so much more in common than different. When anyone dehumanizes any other group of people who may have different backgrounds, experiences, opinions, or political affiliations they become the problem.

      4. Antifa = Mao’s Red Guard during China’s Cultural revolution ib the 1970’s.

      5. And N Korea is democratic.

      6. Tell that to the millions that the anti-fascists = communists have murdered.
        If you do not realize the anti-fascists were the communists, what do you realize??

      7. So if I become an anti-evil-person….and I target you….does that make you, by definition, an evil person?

        Is that how that works?

        If I call my mob an Anti-Idiot Mob and I attack you, does that mean you’re an idiot?

        C’mon now….that’s simply both silly AND irrational. It’s also the same kind of pseudo-logic which is used to power tyranny. As Goebbels himself pointed out, “A lie told once remains a lie, but a lie told a thousand times (as in “We’re Anti-Fascists!”) becomes the truth!” He went on to clarify: “Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.”

        The AntiFa, like every good Brownshirt, is always glad to identify exactly WHO is this day’s ‘fascist’. Just hope that tomorrow it’s not you.

        1. Too bad I can’t give this post a thumbs-up.

    2. C’mon, no tyranny would ever use street thugs to cause chaos and political intimidation.
      That’s totes silly

      1. Brown shirts are just a myth.

        1. As are Bolsheviks.

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      2. I mean, hasn’t JD Tuccille ever watched the classic, Patrick Swayze movie Roadhouse?

  2. torching the Minneapolis 3rd Precinct was just but the rest is theatre and smacks of effort.

    1. I don’t have beef if these people take on city hall. They have my sympathies but the moment they start taking on people who have done nothing but try to carve out a livelihood it’s disgusting.

      1. Excellent point, Idle Hands! I’m with you all the way here! Thanks.

    2. That’s the kind of remark that REALLY wins over non-Libertarians, dude. But if you’re trying to show how edgy you are, well, congratulations. That kind of shit, in part, may explain why libertarians hit the low single digits in votes every four years.

  3. “‘Rioting is a form of tyranny,Tucker Carlson said on his Fox News show. He’s wrong.”

    Ever hear of the term “mob rule”?

    1. I prefer the term “democratic authoritarianism” because I paid a lot for my college education.

    2. Hell, even “tyranny of the majority”?

    3. Anarchy and Tyranny frequently have the same result.

    4. An article with great theory written by someone with absolutely no skin in the game. Did not lose his life savings, his business. Did not get his faced smashed or watch his neighborhood catch fire. I am out. No more monetary contributions from me Reason if this is your “editorial view” of Riots without purpose. These are “protests” and “protesters” when they destroy someone’s else’s place, rioters when it is your life destroyed. Everyone agrees the officers should be punished, what are the riots accomplishing if we all agree that is true?

      1. The purpose of mindless rioting is to foment fear and hatred, create chaos and keep the “fire” of racism burning forever. Democrat bread and butter.

        1. Too true….

        2. Sounds to me like tyranny…

      2. Exactly. The protesters may have legitimate complaints. That doesn’t given any right whatsoever to burn down cities and beat innocent people with 2x4s, pour chemicals into a trailer full of horses, or burn down churches and apartment buildings.

        However, assault with a deadly weapon and arson do make it appropriate to shoot them, because at them moment if a potentially deadly assault, the righteousness of their complaint against someone else is irrelevant.

        Someone assaults my wife with a 2×4 or throws a flaming bottle of gas at my house is going to find out what a shotgun and buckshot are four. And I don’t care what gripe they might have with someone in a city three states away. They don’t have a gripe with us.

        1. Even if they have a gripe with you per se, [and chances are they could find one based on how you think], it doesn’t justify the actions.

          However, I totally agree with you. I maintain nothing in my house or business is worth dying for… but if someone disagrees and is willing to die for it, that decision is on them. I’m just dispensing my opinion at 850 fps.

      3. I totally agree .”no skin in the game” sits in front of the screen and
        ponders …. words.
        Great thinker .
        I also agree that Reason’s writers are loosing it ..

    5. The actions by these bussed in jacka$$e$ is an act of terrorism!!! Trump has just labeled them a terrorist group! The military is now authorized by the Patriot act to engage these terrorists, where ever they may be! For those of you who don’t know your a$$ from a hole in the ground, the Posse Comitatis Act was canned with the passing of the Patriot Act. GW Bush did that! I didn’t like it then and I don’t like it now! The main stream conspiracy news media needs to be shut down! They are the ones fomenting the hate, the lies, the disinformation and creating the atmosphere for riots! If you or me did that we would be arrested for inciting riots! George Soros and his cohorts, the globalists need to be rounded up and put in front of a firing squad for funding these ANTIFA terrorists!!

    6. “mob rule” = democracy as in “if you don’t like this country, move” as in “you’re outnumbered”. The reply may be “it’s the same everywhere is met with, “so, why complain?” The hidden assumption: Whatever the mob believes is just and must be accepted without question.

  4. “Burn this motherfucker down!”
    – Martin Luther Kang, Jr.

    1. Martin Luther King Jr. became more politically radical in his last years, but his opposition to rioting was a constant. “Every time a riot develops,” he warned just months before his death, “it helps George Wallace.”
      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/opinion/sunday/riots-george-floyd.html

    2. Great quote, Rabbi. Except he didn’t say it – and you know that. See Stevecsd below for what he did say about riots.

      1. Rabbi [or Rev… or whoever he is today] doesn’t care. Fact and fiction are equally useful as tools, as is the prestige of the MLK name, all of which can be invoked for the agenda. If caught, walk away and do it elsewhere. The ends always justify any means necessary to getting there.

  5. There was that great meme after the Occupy movements of the girl screaming at a line of police in tactical gear and getting a blast of chemical irritant for her effort. The caption pointing to her read “WANTS MORE GOVERNMENT” and the caption pointing to the police read “MORE GOVERNMENT”.

    The reverse is true from small government conservatives who don’t seem to recognize that strong, bureaucratic police forces is more government. In fact, it’s the worst of government. It’s the enforcement arm of predatory rent-seeking policies and over-regulation. It’s where the hammer of big government meets the nail of you, the individual.

    1. Precisely. This is why most of Fox News can’t be taken seriously when they talk about “small government conservatism.” They want blind allegiance to the police. They want to continue perhaps the most damaging big government policy of the last half century – the goddamned War on Drugs. They also seem to have an issue with what consulting adults do behind closed doors. They’re bootlickers, and they’re full of shit.

      Perhaps even more amazing – ANTIFA – allegedly against fascism is comprised of a bunch of self-contradicting fascists. They just call it socialism, as if that’s not fucking fascism.

      As noted by Dillinger, the police station being destroyed at least makes sense. Damaging private property serves no legitimate purpose.

      1. Consenting* adults

      2. They just call it socialism, as if that’s not fucking fascism“

        Fascism could be classified as a type of socialism, but I wouldn’t say that socialism IS fascism.

        1. Here is the short form:
          Socialism; the government owns the means of production.
          Fascism; the government controls corporations by laws and regulations, the corporations own the means of production but follow the government dictates.

          1. Slave: someone else owns the person
            Citizen: the government controls the person by laws and regulations, the citizen owns himself but follows the government dictates

            1. And we are inching ever closer form the altter to the former, but the label won’t change – hey, let’s play some patriotic music!

            2. Govt. control is ownership. Fascism is socialism disguised as capitalism. Another form of socialism is more honest, but NOT any better, communism.

      3. I can tell you never watch Fox News, just spew stupid hot takes

      4. Ah, isn’t it fun to do the ‘put people into two camps’ thing and presume by label that you can distill everything they believe into a single straw man? How terribly convenient for you.

        Your biggest problem however, is the presumption that “small government conservatives” and Antifa are the two sides of the same coin. The former would be an extremely large group of people with a very wide variety of opinions on a range of topics. Obviously you know NOTHING about those who call themselves conservatives, other than what the media tells you. The latter is only a small group of malcontents that do NOT share a wide variety of opinions.

        The reality is that there are assholes and ignorance on both sides of any argument, and most people want more government to achieve whatever ends they want in place. Likely that is also you, but you don’t realize it either.

        Very few people want blind allegiance to the police. It’s as stupid as blind hatred of the police and as stupid as assuming that political positions are an indicator of such. By and large, and the vast majority of police officers are there for the right reasons, as are people in every position of authority or profession. In all professions however, there are and always will be a small percentage who stand out as the assholes and abusers. Doctors, lawyers, plumbers, professors, and factory work also have their share.

        BTW, nobody I’ve heard yet has stood up for these asshole cops. There goes your blind allegiance comments, which were far more blind than the folks you criticize.

        1. Pretty damn well said.

          What many here don’t realize is that while in Libertarian utopia, we’d all police ourselves with the help of firearms, in the current, real world, you’ll more than likely be labeled as a “racist” (if the person(s) committing crimes against you are not white) or a “facist” (either way). Apparently, nobody here has bothered to remember the several Florida “stand your ground” cases that prompted the leftist mainstream media and the usual suspects to crucify people doing exactly that (with, of course, the poster child for this being George Zimmerman (for better or worse)).

          And think things aren’t going to get worse? Tell it to this guy: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8381861/Dick-Wolf-fires-writer-working-upcoming-Law-Order-spin-controversial-post.html

    2. “The reverse is true from small government conservatives who don’t seem to recognize that strong, bureaucratic police forces is more government”

      Strawmen are fun.
      Dogma uber alles

    3. Most of the worst police departments in America are in cities where conservatives have no power whatsoever. Minneapolis mayor Jacob Frey is a so-called “progressive”, voted in by his fellow so-called “progressives”. He could eliminate their entire police force and there’s nothing any conservatives anywhere can do to stop him.

      In fact, I dare and challenge the mayor on one of these “progressive” cities to go ahead and do just that, get rid of all the police in your city as a big social experiment. I would love to see how that would work out.

      1. I agree with this, and criminal justice reform seems to find its roots lately in as many if not more conservative legislative clusters than not. But I see far too many Law & Order types also donning the mantle of Small Government Conservative. I’m not asking them to be anarchists, but at least recognize and attempt to address the over-regulating, over-legislating that leads to increased police interaction with citizens.

        Floyd wasn’t the result of central planning enforcement, but I believe the encounter’s cavalierly aggressive tactics are born from the training and culture that comes from over-policing.

        1. Floyd was the result of qualified immunity and public sector unions.

          1. ^^^^^^^^^^
            This times 1,000!

      2. Minneapolis has been a progressive stronghold since 1973. No conservatives have dominated since.

        The Minneapolis city council is made up of 1 green party member and the rest are Democratics/Progressives.

        The progressive / Democratics of Minneapolis have had 47 years to change the system and reform its policies.

        The left of Minneapolis deserve the government they keep voting for.

        Outstate MN is very different. It is solidly red. The fact that MN is a blue / purple state is due almost entirely to Minneapolis and ST. PAUL. Not fair for outstate Minnesotans who are the opposite of the 2 largest Progressive cities.

        1. “I hereby declare, officially, my support for ANTIFA,” Jeremiah Ellison, a member of the Minneapolis City Council, wrote on his Twitter account Sunday. “Unless someone can prove to me ANTIFA is behind the burning of black and immigrant owned businesses in my ward, I’ll keep focusing on stopping the white power terrorist THE ARE ACTUALLY ATTACKING US!

          He’s also the son of the MN AG

          1. Fucktard.

            1. Racist fucktard. (Ellison)

              There, I fixed it for you.

      3. In fact, there’s no way Frey could eliminate the police force. He can’t even fire the police chief. Minneapolis has a “weak mayor” system. He has barely more power than an individual city council mayor.

        Minneapolis PD is an unaccountable occupying force.

        1. The Minneapolis PD has an annual budget set by the City Council, correct?

          If that’s the case, then they aren’t wholly “unaccountable”.

          Granted, PD officers almost certainly have various contractual (i.e., union) and civil service provisions that make it difficult to effect a great deal of change in the short run. To c5c5’s point, however, city government in Minneapolis has been dominated been Democrats for decades.

    4. “The reverse is true from small government conservatives who don’t seem to recognize that strong, bureaucratic police forces is more government.”

      This. Man, if Trump had stuck with his “I’m sending the DOJ to Minnesota” line, instead of going into the “These thugs are going to pay” line, he could have gotten so far. Instead he grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory by going full “Law and Order”.

      We just got off months of Democrat Governors and Mayors locking people in their houses, and sending cops to give them tickets for walking their dogs. And then to top it off, cops in a blue city, in a purple state go and strangle a man to death. This was the opportunity to shine a light on just how the Left’s recipe has created jackbooted thugs. It was the moment to hang the failings of the police on the Democrats for a generation.

      And then Trump decided to side with the Law and Order crowd.
      Bummer.

      1. Yea, how crazy to talk about law and order in response to mass rioting.
        Great point.
        Dogma uber alles!

        1. Overt’s use of “law and order” is different than yours. But you knew that.

          1. Your son get drafted yet?

      2. Ha. I cannot stand Trump but not so much for the reasons so many others have. He could actually have been a net good for the country’s return to individualism, even with all his faults. The outsider who didn’t need the same political capital that others require to force some change, he just can’t be that guy.

        He endured years of our cherished institutions trying to destroy his presidency and he still can’t find it in him to see them for what they are not just to him but to everyone who wants to be more than some bureaucrat’s chess piece.

        1. Imagine if instead of calling for Governors to get their cities under control, he had announced that he was doing a top down RICO investigation of the Minneapolis police department, starting with the chief of police?

          Hell, think what would happen if video surfaced of you or me choking out some guy on the ground while my buddies waited by like ghoulish psychopaths. Do you think it would have taken 3 days for me to be arrested? Trump could have had the FBI take those cops into custody immediately and held them for a couple days, and then figured out what to charge them with. But he didn’t and that was a missed opportunity to change things.

          1. Minnesotans wouldn’t give a shit, Overt. This isn’t about police brutality. It’s a combination of pissed off people who’ve been locked up at home for no good reason for the last few months, coupled with Antifa deciding to try street violence as a means of civil disorder, and unified by the lower class’s insatiable demand to be given things they didn’t earn.

            So, go ahead and investigate MPD. Put them under the control of a Federal Special Master, like Texas prisons were for so many years. Might even do some good. But it isn’t stopping a single rioter from continuing to riot.

            1. It took ten years for the GOP to go from The Party of Lincoln to the enemy of all Blacks everywhere. It will take ten years to go back.

              We may have still seen riots, but we also would have seen blue checkmarks exploding all over the world as they tried to explain how swiftly taking these cops into custody is somehow racist. And then they’d have even harder time trying to defend the mayor and police union reps who were objecting. Instead, Trump has his riots, and the “Thugs” comment serves to earn him blame for “inflaming” the situation.

              1. The situation’s already inflamed, Overt. Trump calling thugs “thugs” is just putting to text what Middle America already thinks. It’s how he got in the office to begin with.

                It is somewhat racist how fast this cop got rung up, compared to other occasions around the country where a cop was inexcusably behaving badly. Remember how long this exact police department dragged its feet before doing anything about Noor shooting Damond. A shitload of riots are amazing for moving a slow bureaucracy. But getting rid of QI. Or ending the Drug War, or making prisons more homey, or instituting bail reform: none of that would have stopped these riots, because these riots aren’t about police brutality. Not after the first night, and not outside MSP. Or police abuse. These officers are likely going to go to the hole for awhile, albeit as mentioned, Keith Ellison is certainly capable of fucking this up.

                They’re about an angry underclass that sees this as their opportunity to get more free stuff. This isn’t stopping until you change that culture, or you make the underclass afraid to break the law in that fashion.

                Democrats give them more free stuff than Republicans do. That’s why the Republican Party isn’t going to be the ‘friend of blacks’ anytime soon. Not without irrevocably pissing off their base. Can you imagine if McConnell came forward with a bill like BET Founder Robert Johnson’s 14 trillion dollar reparations proposal? That’d be one way to make the Republican party the favorite again, I guess.

                1. LOL, I love the understated racism of your facile argument. You’re just a hair’s breadth from referring to Black people as “gibs.”

          2. The FBI and any federal agency cannot just waltz into a city and take over! They have to be invited by some one in the state, the governor or even a sheriff can invite them in. Did that happen? No, it did not! All of this aggressive terrorist activity by ANTIFA is where the violence comes in. They even destroyed black owned businesses and you idiots think that is OK??? They were bussed into the cities! Who the h*ll paid for that? Have any of you “progressives” looked into that? Do you enjoy screwing up the lives of the very same people you portend to be supporting? Who the h*ll is going to pay for the damages? Who is going to rebuild all of this?

            1. You can swear here. It’s OK. Lord knows some of these fucknuts deserve it and more.

              “Who the h*ll is going to pay for the damages? Who is going to rebuild all of this?”

              Who always does? The net taxpayers, that’s who.

          3. The reality is that it really does not matter what Trump does. The media and probably you would find fault in it. Personally I don’t like Trump and didn’t vote for him, but he does have a point.

            He had not had a chance to do anything without getting a fair break.

            1. He had not had a chance to do anything without getting grief and has not received a fair break.

        2. That’s because of his long, long laundry list of flaws, the number one flaw that tops the list is stupidity. I had no idea this guy was as fucking stupid and ignorant as he is until he ran and then won. I don’t think he has ever read a book.

          I even met him once in the 90s. Wasn’t too impressed, but didn’t know he was as dumb as he is.

          When you know essentially nothing, and have no moral compass, you are easily pushed around which is what the deep state has done, and why he has fulfilled none of the few good ideas on which he campaigned. Dumb motherfucker.

    5. Not Loving on Police here but they at least keep some semblance of order, especially for folks in lower income areas (not a typo). Arguing against any form of policing is crazy talk, there’s folks out there who do harm just for shits and giggles or believe that if they want someone’s stuff they can just take it. Yes there are bad cops, just like in any other group of humans. Let he who is without sin throw the first rock through a store window.

      1. Where did all of the pallets of bricks come from in some of these cities? Who put them there? Wake the h*ll up! This was all pre-planned!!

      2. True. It is a semblance of order.

      3. The problem is not one of needing no police but in stead the rampant deterioration of the police recruiting and training. As pros, they should be taught to defuse situations as much as possible, but instead, we have a bunch of assholes with small dick syndrome on ‘roids with a bad attitude and an exclusive on the use of force, who get off on telling people what to do…so they look to and enjoy escalating things.

        If you show a capacity of empathy, you will either not get on the force, or get drummed out. The culture is one of deranged apathy.

        Of course, this gets down to the BIG LIE – that they are there to “protect and serve” the public. Bullshit. They exist to protect the politicians and bureaucrats. Full stop.

    6. Riots force government to take action. Riots are undeniably a form of tyranny, basically taking rule over anyone who is anti-authoritarian or for small government. It almost always results in more government. It basically causes anti-authoritarians to want more government… it takes rule over their own beliefs.

      So, yeah, Tucker is right.

      And, this doesn’t have to be limited to riots per se. Anyone who acts against the protection of people (online or irl), oppresses the people during the time of it, and oppresses the people after more rule are in place (in the name of protection).

      Pretty soon, army dudes will be patrolling the city streets. And, they won’t be there for you; they will be there for illegal acts of looting and destruction. But, the rioters will rule the minds of many like puppets!

    7. On the money,honey….

  6. Mr. Tucille…From Merriam dictionary.

    tyranny (noun)

    tyr·​an·​ny | \ ˈtir-ə-nē \
    plural tyrannies
    Definition of tyranny
    1: oppressive power
    every form of tyranny over the mind of man
    — Thomas Jefferson
    especially : oppressive power exerted by government
    the tyranny of a police state
    2a: a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler
    especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state
    b: the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant
    3: a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force
    living under the tyranny of the clock
    — Dixon Wecter
    4: an oppressive, harsh, or unjust act : a tyrannical act
    workers who had suffered tyrannies

    Yo Tucille…I think rioting qualified under a tyrannical act. Go back to school, fool.

  7. False equivalency isn’t the solution to any of our problems, but pretending there are major differences between violating people rights and violating people’s rights isn’t the solution either.

    When the government violates our rights, it’s called injustice.

    When individuals violate our rights, it’s called crime.

    So what?

    If the best you can say about a rights violating mob is that they aren’t as bad as an injustice perpetrating government, then you’re not adding anything of value to the conversation.

    There is no legitimate argument for willfully destroying the property and violating the rights of innocent bystanders, and that’s what the riots are doing. If and when private individuals exercise their Second Amendment right to defend themselves and the property rights against rioters, they’ll be just as justified as they would be if they were exercising their Second Amendment rights to overthrow a tyrannic government. Meanwhile, the state is thoroughly justified in using force to protect the rights of innocent bystanders; in fact, protecting our rights from criminals like thieves, looters, and arsonists is one of the few legitimate functions of government.

    1. Is it just me or are we currently dealing with the weakest ineffectual political class in generations? They have done nothing but contribute and to destroy our society. They are parasites who do nothing but fan the flames of societies dissolution. They are locusts that feed on the decay of are once great innovative economy. We are a victim of our own success. It’s pretty clear we are on the downswing hopefully we have several more upswings left in us.

      1. Correct.
        If they weren’t so incompetent, they wouldn’t be so objected to (and Trump would’ve never happened).
        Decadence is a bitch

      2. Someone should probably pipe up that dictators often rise up and get their support because of ineffectual leadership and bad government.

        Furthermore, from a small state, libertarian perspective, if the legitimate purpose of government is to protect our rights, then failing to protect our rights from obvious threats like rioters is a recipe/fuel for illegitimate, tyrannical government.

        The people who are making excuses for the rioters are building the foundation for tyrannical government.

        1. I suspect that is the point, when looking at the rest of their societal prescriptions.

        2. This has been my biggest fear about the election of Trump since it happened. Not that he himself is a tyrannical nut job. He’s not ideological or politically ambitious enough to achieve totalitarianism. Basically, he’s a blowhard.

          I’m concerned about the equal and opposite reaction. The next guy who comes along and uses the populist rage against a decadent and despondent political class to promise that if you just let him have all the power, he’ll solve all the problems. Only he actually means it. He will be charismatic and he will know all the right things to say to make enough people believe it. The media will tell you that he’s scandal free. Because mass murder, mass incarceration, contact tracing, data mining and complete disregard for political process isn’t a scandal when he’s who they prefer.

          1. I’ve said this for 4 years. Trump is the Gracci Brothers. Caesar has not shown himself yet.

          2. Unfortunately I agree. I was really hoping that Trump would show the emperor has no clothes and the takeaway would be the whole thing is ridiculous theater that we don’t need. Instead it feels like the majority people not only want but need the theater, just like they need religion. They can’t imagine situation that theirs no safety net or their’s noone who is their daddy protecting them or looking out for them. They can’t go at it alone. Unfortunately this is always going to mean our ideology is a philosophical dead end as this is a incredibly human problem as we are herd animals.

            1. It’s pretty disheartening to watch. The only solution to every problem anyone can think of right now seems to be give the government more power and less accountability and the abuse will stop. As long as it’s our guy. Whether it’s conservatives demanding new legislation to reprimand social media or leftists demanding new legislation to do absolutely everything, what you get in practice typically has a much more sinister face that what you asked for.

              1. “Whether it’s conservatives demanding new legislation to reprimand social media”

                Except they’re not asking for new legislation, they’re asking to repeal old legislation

          3. “I’m concerned about the equal and opposite reaction. The next guy who comes along and uses the populist rage against a decadent and despondent political class to promise that if you just let him have all the power, he’ll solve all the problems. Only he actually means it. He will be charismatic and he will know all the right things to say to make enough people believe it. The media will tell you that he’s scandal free. Because mass murder, mass incarceration, contact tracing, data mining and complete disregard for political process isn’t a scandal when he’s who they prefer.”

            So, Obama


            1. So, Obama.

              Yeah, it’s like they’re not even paying attention.

              1. Like Obama, but someone who will make look like lazy in comparison. He could have pushed much harder than he actually did to achieve a lot of leftist dream goals, but he didn’t. Presumably because he actually belongs to the decadent and despondent political class.

                Think a Lenin or a Mao. Who knows, it could be someone right-wing. I know it sounds like paranoid fantasy, but the SCOTUS basically just rescinded our right to free assembly if the state deems it necessary. There’s absolutely no chance that new government toy won’t be abused by some ambitious, opportunistic up and coming pol.

                1. You have it backwards was sort of my point, in that Trump was the reaction to Obama in the first place. Which is why I said you don’t seem to be paying attention.

                  No President will be able to do what you suggest until it’s illegal to own a gun. There are more guns in this nation than citizens. I’ll leave it up to you to wonder how that might make it difficult for a Lenin or Mao to ‘cleanse’ our society. I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying there are prerequisites that have not been met yet.

                  You’ll note, for example, that people are already protesting the local governments arbitrary power grabs and predictably if peace fails violence follows. We haven’t even begun to see a violent reaction to these diktats yet, mark my words. If you think the Bundy Ranch standoff was bad, just wait.

                  1. I do wonder at what point the Feds become willing to really show a true use of force just to show people what happens when they don’t do as they’re told. It’s not like there’s not precedent for the US government capping a few dissidents. I hope you’re right that there are enough people with a real backbone to fire back to make state agents think twice about a full fledged takeover.

                    At the same time, we just watched the entire nation quietly go along with stay at home orders and the Supreme Court just sided with the states in limiting our right to assemble when they deem it necessary. We’ve been silently putting up with mass incarceration and endless war for decades. I’m not convinced that a few drone strikes on the next couple of Bundy Ranch situations won’t just send the message that they’re not afraid to do what it takes to win and they don’t care much about the optics when they can use the media to tell everyone that they’re just killing white supremacists even if in reality its a bunch of lefties.

                    The powder keg is getting ready to blow considering what a year we’ve already had. They can pit us peasants against each other for only so long. At some point, someone is going to go after the political class in the fortresses we bought them. There may be more guns than people, but missiles from the sky will beat out a bunch of semi autos any day.


                    1. I do wonder at what point the Feds become willing to really show a true use of force just to show people what happens when they don’t do as they’re told.

                      We literally had a Civil War, so if you’re wondering it could assist with your understanding.


                      There may be more guns than people, but missiles from the sky will beat out a bunch of semi autos any day.

                      This will never happen. At that point, Russia and China invade and who really gives a shit past that point? You’re in the middle of WW3 if that comes to pass, and you’ll have more to worry about from foreign blanket-nuking than any domestic squabbles.

            2. Obama was an opportunistic piker who changed nothing, stayed out of the way of the Machine, prosecuted no bankers, abetted the biggest wealth transfer ever (now surpassed by the CARES Act) gave the insurance industry a multi-billion dollar gift, kept the war industry busy and well paid, did as he was told, and got paid for it.

              Now he and his racist wife can live out their lives in luxury.

          4. That’s how Nazi Germany came into existence and flourished for quite sometime, resulting in mass murder and incarceration, as well as disregard for political process. People were so embittered that they turned to somebody who was charismatic and a socialist, and that’s a good part of what paved the road for the Holocaust.

            We might not get something as intense, but it could be pretty close if things go on as they’re presently going, if one gets the drift.

          5. That was my same fear back in 2016. Not Trump, but how would the people handle him being elected. However, these domestic terrorism organizations have been growing the past 20 years in Europe and during Obama. So, it wasn’t necessarily Trump that caused it.

            I fear someone more who’s going to go in promising to remove our freedoms and make life miserable for us. Not someone like Trump who wanted to bring us back to the 90s where we were prideful of USA. And, if it wasn’t for an invisible enemy entering our country, he was doing a pretty darn good job of it.

    2. If violence is an inappropriate response to tyranny, why do you need guns to protect yourself from a hypothetically tyrannical government? Why was violence the response to taxation without representation, slavery, nazism and jihad?

      1. Yea, looting the Target and burning down housing projects is the exact same as fighting tyrannical government.
        Great call

        1. They are fighting tyrannical government, clever one.

          1. If they were fighting tyrannical government, their target would be tyrannical government.
            Target is NOT tyrannical government.
            SciFi bookstores are not tyrannical government.
            It is NOT tyrannical government that defends those properties from arsonists and looters – that is JUST government, protecting the innocent.

            The only legitimate target in this was the precinct.

            1. We’re the civilians in Dresden legitimate targets? Hiroshima?

              1. I had no idea we were in a declared war with hostile powers intent on invading and taking over the United States to rule with the power of the Japanese emperor.

                Cool analogy…

                And yeah, in all-out war so-called ‘civilian targets’ don’t exist. They’re all just ‘targets’.

                1. What BYODB said. I mean, Eric, are you fucking crazy? In what world does comparing the rioters burning everything not a government building (barring that police station) equivalent to strategic bombing of another country in a total war?

                  I mean, if those are the new rules…OK. The result here will not be something you’ll like at all.

                  Can we get back to arresting people who commit crimes, and stop endorsing extrajudicial violence on our ideological opponents? Like viewing burning down their stores as some perverted attempt at lobbying?

                2. The point is that fighting tyranny could be expected to lead to collateral damage. Armed government agents killing unarmed civilians is tyranny, which you would know if your kids looked like those being killed.

                  1. So if you and your family were killed by rioters that would be fine because the perpetrators say they are fighting the government?

                  2. Nice wiggle words. “Could be expected.” Do you know what “Collateral” means? Not the intended target. The rioters are intentionally targeting businesses.

                    Give me the number of “Armed government agents killing unarmed civilians,” in the U.S. that rivals the number of U.S. citizens killing “Unarmed civilians.”

                    Sevo and Tulpa have it right: Your research, logic, and reasoning skills deserve nothing but scorn. You should be treated just like a child demanding candy.

                    1. It is so abundantly clear the relative value you place on, at least unambiguously alive, human life vs your favorite Walmart. I’m sorry they’ll need a remodel before you can get your next 30 pack of Schlittz there. Meanwhile, cops are killing people.

                  3. But mobs destroying cities and killing many more innocent civilians isn’t tyranny?

                    Given that choice, give me Officer Chauvin

                    1. Amazing that cause and effect is too complex a concept for you to grasp, but then the intellectual development of right wingers seems to stall out after selecting a favorite color.

          2. They’re fighting a tyrannical government by punishing a bunch of innocent civilians and businesses. If an actual fight with the tyrannical government starts, they’re going to see the reality of voting to expand the state every chance they get. They’re going to get slaughtered. You’ve bought them drones, cruise missiles, fully automatics, tanks and fighter jets. All for your protection. Yours meaning theirs.

            1. Yeah, because it is a known thing that the American military isn’t a volunteer force made up of…American citizens that might take issue with arbitrarily gunning down their relatives.

              I mean, the Civil War did happen so it’s not impossible but it is pretty fucking implausible.

              Please recall that the American military is overwhelmingly populated with rural southerners. It’s way fewer trannies than you might have been led to expect.

              1. Here’s a fun thought experiment:

                Where do you find an American military pilot that would be ok with nuking Austin, Texas? Or Seattle, Washington?

                Or launching missiles into New York?

                It’s a bit beyond the pale, don’t you think? Especially since, well, that pilot is probably from one of those places and probably has family there? Or went to college with someone he liked that lives in one of those places?

                Something about illegal orders and a duty to disobey them? Is it a lawful order of the President to nuke Philadelphia? Also, I must note that following an illegal order isn’t a defense. You literally can’t just say “I was following orders” and get out of something.

                And as a parting note, it’s really hard to just blanket nuke the entire rural portion of the United States. If you look at a map, you’ll note it would be a truly idiotic thing to suggest.

                1. Always effective to bring the army into the city to bust some heads, given that most soldiers come from the sticks or at least don’t align with urban politics. Worked for Mao and Stalin and their successors.

                  1. You might be able to convince them to open fire on a few protestors, especially those who aren’t educated enough to recall the fallout from the Boston Massacre. You’re going to have a much harder time finding people willing to nuke the children’s hospital.

                  2. If our ‘rural people’ invaded our cities, they’d be replacing ‘Democratic Socialism’ or ‘Progressivism’ with…Republicanism? Constitutionalism? Be specific, because last I checked rural American’s don’t overwhelmingly skew Communist.

                    No, really, what do you think those ‘Rural People’ are going to replace the government with? I don’t even think you’ve thought about it. Maybe a military junta?

                2. Well, nuking NY would be okay, except that I’m only 12 miles away, across the river. Though I guess I’d understand.

          3. Well, good, then I’ll come over and hate-fuck your wife because I hate the government. And you will stand by and do nothing because I am right.

            I have little to no use for “peace officers” (what a bullshit name that is), but you conflate 2 things that have no connection.

            I think your ANTIFA buddies have subverted a lot of the protests to achieve what we see now, and Trump, being Trump (i.e., stupid) plays right into their game plan.

    3. Very well said Ken Schultz.

      One can believe in tiny government and also believe in keeping basic law & order. Fighting crime on our behalf is one of the very few things government has a role.

  8. I just don’t get how burning, looting and destroying property do anything to help you’re cause. If anything they’ve just served to divide people on what was a clear issue everyone saw was murder. It was an opportunity to build bridges. The country is a powder keg right now and I can’t help but feel the fuse has just started to be lit. We are in midst of total gov failure of all levels, they fucked up and have caused the deepest economic recession/depression in their lockdown fuckup since the depression. They are incable of leading. Right now we are dealing with riots across the country that are causing damage to people’s property with the gov basically standing back and letting it happen without recourse. What is the point of this mafia organization anyway? Rioting is tyranny, it’s mob rule and it’s chaos I’m sorry. Police unaccountably shutting down business’s and killing people is also tyranny. I really don’t see a way out right now. Feels like we are in the midst of a complete and total societal realignment and frankly that’s incredibly scary as in the past those generally lead to tyranny, fascism and communism.

    1. If an African-American man sees his shadow and burns down the local Target, there will be 4 more years of Trump.

    2. I just can’t with these protesters though they have through voting instituted vast gov bureaucracies to rid their societies of ails and are shocked when they are ruled by vast uncountable gov bureaucracies. The problem is inward not outward, if you don’t want petty bullshit policing don’t vote for people promising more of it in the name of safety, don’t vote for people who advocate for more laws and don’t vote for people who use collective guilt and othering to tell you it’s not your fault and they can solve all your problems as they are more than likely charlatans/grifters and most importantly leave places that make you feel unsafe and living under the jackboot of tyranny(ie the cities or state). This thing is incredibly fragile and I have a feeling we are about to find out how fragile it is.

    3. “If anything they’ve just served to divide people on what was a clear issue everyone saw was murder.”

      It seems to me you have figured out exactly why this rioting is happening.

      Think for a moment. You have a bunch of protestors go to city hall. The Mayor comes out and you have dialogue and agree on reforms. These reforms are even heard up at the federal level.

      Now imagine you are Antifa- a marxist organization who wants revolution. The last thing you want is for the citizens to see that peaceful protest works. The last thing you want is for the people in power or the majority in flyover land to see is sympathetic people looking for compromise. No, you want the poor to join you in burning it all down. So you start shit.

      1. True.
        Begs the question as to why protesters are still giving them cover

        1. Because the ‘protesters’ are looking to get a free TV out of the deal. This is what happens when you label everyone who shows up a ‘protester’.

          Also, the government loves it when we do that because now the national guard or something can get involved to help you shut them up.

          In fact, it would well serve the government interest to incite violence. Then you can sweep them off the street without concern for their rights.

      2. At some point in the not so distant future, any concern over police brutality will evaporate with one molotov too many, and the sentiment of “let it all burn” will be heard from the heartland, with calls for the National Guard not protect but to hold the savages in.

        Nor will there be any concern towards rebuilding the smoking craters, and its not like the cities will have the tax base to do it themselves, so I anticipate several metros turning into No Man’s Land that would even make Detroit look quaint.

        And at least some portion of this could be avoided if the protesters could find the means to rub two brain cells together to come up with something, ANYTHING that fits within their governmental milieu.

        In short, the left have screwed themselves on a scale of biblical proportions, and fuck them for laying the groundwork for the police state to follow.

    4. “I just don’t get how burning, looting and destroying property do anything to help you’re cause. If anything they’ve just served to divide people on what was a clear issue everyone saw was murder. It was an opportunity to build bridges.”

      Exactly. Can’t have those bridges built. How do you take power in a revolution of the masses if the masses aren’t upset about something?

  9. They’re BOTH forms of tyranny! You’re right that abusive policing is tyrannical and wrong, but you’re completely wrong when you say that Carlson is wrong.

    You’ve probably never run so much as a lemonade stand, so you wouldn’t understand what it’s like to be a small business owner who just watched his entire life’s work be destroyed for no particularly good reason. Short of dying or a loved one dying, it’s one of the worst things that can happen to you.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, brother! You were taught this when you were a kid for a “reason”.

    1. Reason can’t help but defend criminal acts, especially when committed by the poor and oppressed African-American community. Did the white community riot when the Houston PD murdered two white people during a botched drug raid? Do you think Reason would run apologetic articles about how whites deserve to riot because they’ve had it so difficult under the boot of authoritarian police? Without a Koch sponsor, this pathetic magazine would have disappeared into the ether of the Internet years ago.

  10. The state does it’s level best to ignore all the nonviolent ways in which people have tried to address this problem. All the nonviolent protesting, and organizing, and Tweeting, and voting have gotten absolutely no results. Police still get away with murder on a regular basis.

    Riots, on the other hand, always effect some kind of change, at least more change than being peaceful gets you.

    If you’re a results oriented person, what incentives have the state given you to not riot? I suppose “not getting arrested” is one, but it seems that isn’t good enough anymore, people are willing to get arrested over this. If the state only takes grievances seriously when they’re backed by torches and pitchforks, it’s no wonder everyone has a torch and a pitchfork.

    1. Why is the Democrat party so unconcerned with the oppression of African-Americans by the local police department? Is it systemic racism?

      1. Yes. Historically, the Democratic Party is all about systemic racism.

      2. They’ve got themselves in a real pickle here because on one hand they want to blindly support unions, but on the other they want to blindly support African Americans.

        What would be great for them is if everyone would quit bickering over minor things like policy brutality and systemic racism and focus on what’s really important: uniting and defeating Donald Trump in November.

        1. *police brutality, although as someone who does IT auditing and compliance for work “policy brutality” is going to make more appearances in my professional communications.

        2. “What would be great for them is if everyone would quit bickering over minor things like policy brutality and systemic racism and focus on what’s really important: uniting and defeating Donald Trump in November.”

          Because there were no such riots before Trump.

          Nope.

    2. I agree.
      But take the torch and pitchfork to where the fuck it really belongs, not innocent people’s businesses

      1. Also, it’s absolutely insane that people in every little town should feel compelled to march over the murder of George Floyd after his murderer has been arrested.
        Fucking sheep

        1. It is odd, but I’m viewing this more as a “straw that broke the camel’s back” situation rather than everyone individually being mad about specifically George Floyd. A lot of cities have seen that shit play out in their towns, and now is their chance to make it known that it isn’t just Minneapolis that’s sick of this shit.

          And while I don’t condone looting Target or anything like that, I said in a previous thread why I understand it is a valid tactic. Businesses pay taxes and some of them make campaign contributions, and they’re probably pretty pissed off that some dipshit cop caused a riot and got their store looted and/or burned down. They’re going to be telling the mayor to get the wild dogs down at the PD on a fucking leash if they want another campaign contribution. It’s not those businesses’ problem to solve, but the rioters are giving them an incentive to help solve it.

          1. Maybe, but also a chance for bored, frustrated people to break out of quarantine justified by what they consider to be a higher moral issue. Many of them are probably the same whiners who could not accept those who protested the lock down itself.

          2. I view it as people going along with the latest social media fad, this one ginned up by leftists to advance their power

          3. “It is odd, but I’m viewing this more as a “straw that broke the camel’s back” situation rather than everyone individually being mad about specifically George Floyd.”

            Maybe but you are still naive as hell if you think the rest of those straws are other incidents of police brutality.


          4. they’re probably pretty pissed off that some dipshit cop caused a riot and got their store looted and/or burned down. They’re going to be telling the mayor to get the wild dogs down at the PD on a fucking leash if they want another campaign contribution.

            HAHAHA! Yeah, they would never think about asking the mayor to lock that shit down with overwhelming police force to protect their investment. That is unpossible.

          5. You call the looting of Target, other stores, and other people’s businesses a valid tactic, Fat Mike’s Drug Habit? I sure as hell don’t! These kinds of actions and behaviors make things a hell of a lot worse, not better.

    3. Fight city hall and the police not innocent people who actually provide services to the community without the threat of violence.

    4. Fat Mike, please tell what the effect of the 1992 Rodney King riots were, other than destroying large parts of Los Angeles, which took years to recover.
      I don’t recall any positive outcome from that.

      1. I’d say the term “roof Koreans” is a positive

  11. Coordinated Antifa riots
    Mob protection rackets
    Drug gang controlling a neighborhood.

    These are all forms of tyranny that have nothing to do with government.

  12. Reason. Free Minds and Free Markets.

    Of course when someone burns your market down…

    Whatever happened to “don’t hurt people and don’t take their stuff”?

    1. Daddy Koch will pay for another market. What is the problem?

      1. Shut up, low IQ.

  13. This article and the one in today’s round up, suggest to me that Reason is growing weary of their responsible “rioting is bad” articles and is itching to break out their inner anarchist and let their cop-hating freak flag fly.

    It’s like forcing your kid to do his homework while his friends are out there having fun; you knew it just couldn’t last.

    “But mom! All my friends get to go to the riot!”

  14. Just about the only thing worse than government is mob rule.

    1. What about mob government?

      1. Mob rule vs. Mob government?!? All too often, one can lead to another, if one gets the drift.

  15. Oh and I love the ACLU’s list of offense laid out in the article.

    expired boat registration

    Is being unfairly and disproportionately pinched for expired boat registrations really a major problem in the African-American, Native-American, and other poor communities of America? I’ll buy some of the other ones, but I’m rather skeptical on this one.

    littering

    Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. Is it the ACLU’s position or Reason’s position that littering should be legal? I swear, I had absolutely no idea at all that littering was a controversial, polarizing, partisan, or racially infused issue.

    1. Yeah, apparently these people have enough money to buy a boat but not enough money to register it? Golly!

      Also, we’d have to note that there are close to zero places near an Indian reservation where a boat would make sense as a major purchase.

  16. I have always known Turcille was stupid. But it is remarkable to hear him be this honest about how stupid he actually is. If there is no order, and you have no security, which is what goes on in a riot, you are living under tyranny. There is no controlling the mob and no way to stop it from destroying your life and property if it decides to. That is tyranny. It is just tyranny of the mob instead of the police. But it is tyranny none the less.

    I guess Turcille thinks that the people who have lost their life’s work during this should be happy it wasn’t the cops who did it because a mob burning it down is better. What a fucking retard. Really. Fuck you JD and everyone who looks like you .

    1. The intellectual class has been shown to be completely morally bankrupt the last three years. Completely. It’s always been principals over principles with them, always.

    2. I really thought 2Chilly was better than this. I have to imagine he’s writing from ignorance of just how abusive the police will get, if that’s what’s percieved to be needed to maintain order.

  17. Well, when they start burning stuff down and attacking people, it’s called Terror.

  18. When the local hotheads and riot tourists are done doing their worst, they’ll leave in their wake damaged neighborhoods with fewer jobs, businesses, and opportunities for buying and selling goods and services. Stores economically hobbled by the pandemic lockdowns and by voluntary decisions regarding social distancing and tighter family budgets will be less likely to rebuild than they might be in normal times.

    “BWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!”

  19. No, this isn’t some replay of the French revolution, where desperate, oppressed people have finally had enough and was galvanized into action by a tragedy.

    None of these kids who rioting on the streets were ever in danger of “systemic” police hunting of POCs. In a nation where nearly half the population is effectively non white or foreign, cops shoot maybe 20 unarmed blacks a year. They hardly kill any Asians or Muslims.

    The list of white people killed by cops in questionable circumstances is undoubtedly long. Blacks commit half of all murders, and kill their own and other ethnic groups more than any other ethnicity. If our current media was “right wing” and used their deception, it could easily create a perception that society was under assault by urban black youth.

    This riot is basically antifa taking their act nationwide. They’re the same people who always resorted to violence to oppose their perpetual racist enemies – capitalism, big companies, white people, male patriarchy, school system. They exist in a third reich where racial genocide and fascist overlords pose existential threats everywhere.

    And half the looters are just latcher ons who use the protest as cover to loot. Someone smashes store window, and they all go in like lemmings. The reign of terror and Napoleon was the result of these people actually overthrowing their government. The French were so tired of 20 years of war that the welcomed in the invading coalition forces with open arms. If you think these rioters don’t represent tyranny, think again.

    1. The reign of terror was the result of the mob being so out of control that the Revolutionary Government decided to execute everyone the mob demanded as a way of asserting control over the situation.

      The French Revolution is a story in what happens when the political and intellectual classes start relying on and encouraging mob violence for political ends.

  20. “protests over abusive and lethal police conduct have spread across the country and turned destructive.”

    Once the violence and rioting starts, the “protest” is over.
    Remember the old useless parchment written by the slave owners only said ‘peacefully’ – – – – – – –

  21. “The strong and the violent oppress the weak and the unarmed. It is oppression.”

    So, Tucker Carlson is describing the cops, right? /s

      1. Erratum, i give you the french wikipedia page.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2

  22. “But protests aren’t directed by mass minds, and their participants often have conflicting priorities and agendas.”

    Ah, so no harm then. Got it.

    Why can’t they destroy the Reason offices? Or find the addresses of some of the editors and bother them?

    I mean, it’d be rude but definitely nothing tyrannical.

    1. They are hoping the crocodile eats them last.

  23. look more propaganda giving cover for the violent marxist rioters…sorry, protesters out destroying lives and property across the country.

    Fuck you. I no longer have time for your formenting of racial hatred with your biased coverage. I no longer have time for you covering for the worst actions imaginable as long as they come from blue checkmarked antifa sympathizers.

    What the fuck else did you want? The cop has been arrested within days of the offense, the charges seem appropriate (no getting off for over charging if it holds) and it looks like you’d actually accomplished something good, but then the riots start and you can’t see the destruction because it tarnishes your carefully crafted narrative…again FUCK YOU.

  24. Tucker 1 Reason 0: From Dictionary.com here are definitions 5 and 6 of the word tyranny:
    5. undue severity or harshness.
    6. a cruel or harsh act or proceeding; an arbitrary, oppressive, or tyrannical action.
    (Don’t worry I was wrong too. I incorrectly assumed that only governments or at best people in positions of authority can practice tyranny)

    1. (Don’t worry I was wrong too. I incorrectly assumed that only governments or at best people in positions of authority can practice tyranny)

      And yet you didn’t write an article flaunting that ignorance.

      1. It’s a bit bothersome that a publication, which should be aware of the NAP, has made multiple efforts today to excuse the actions of rioters.

        We get it, the unaccountable nature of modern policing is horrible, but you’re preaching the choir here. Wrong actions by police do not excuse wrong actions by a mob.

        1. While it’s true that people do often riot when they’re under pressure of some sort or other, violence all too often begets violence, especially from law-enforcement people. We’ve seen evidence of that during the Viet Nam War, and there was also plenty of evidence of that during Boston’s busing riots, during the 1970’s.

    2. Yeah. A lot of Law & Order types have said some dumbass shit in the context of riots, but Carlson’s claim was extremely reasonable. Tuccille needed to pick an easier target.

      Or, he could have just accepted that Carlson is right and that riots are a terrible response when there’s near universal agreement on an issue with a chance to find common ground. I’m not buying into conspiracies that riots are being orchestrated, but we do there know are elements who love to stir the pot and get violent with the mildest excuse.

    3. As Heinlein wrote, violence is the ultimate source of authority. The group which is not restrained by morality or fear to indiscriminately deploy violence to achieve their ends is asserting authority over others who will not or cannot. Governments are not the only group that can assert authority or necessarily the worst one.

      1. “Fuck the police, daddy !!”
        “Define police, son”

  25. all i hear and sea is: KILL COPS! WE HATE WHITEY!KILL COPS!WE HATE WHITEY!KILL COPS! WE HATE WHITEY! and YES you are allowed to protest!? you are not allowed to burn down the fucking house,nigger,whitey,and you other queers!? call the assholes that created this PLAN-DE MICK, AND THAT IS THE CONGRESS! this is a red-flag event, to determine if the government can sequester the population of the USA! here in nys we want to arrest the gov queermo for tyranny, and we will.and that queer shit deathblow and his asshole family. put them all into the toombs!

    1. this all do to the sensrbtch, an illegal alien being paid minimum wage and is not a CITIZEN? so my komenitis/tors probably will not masker it on this site. follow w me on my mime and make all the komentits/tor that you want. without the queer/cunt sensrbtch.

      1. isall this true? it muss bees it on this website?!

  26. These communist savages have been lucky so far, someone soon is not going to put up with their crap, and open fire on these em efers. if they try to go to suburbs in FREE states they will definitely get mowed down.

  27. Insurrection = Treason. Wake up, this is planned.

  28. Rioting is destructive. PERIOD. Ya fucks.

  29. Riots can be very profitable.
    Just ask any looter.

    1. Riots can be very profitable? Oh really? For who?

  30. A choice between marauders or tyrants, is not a choice – that’s a dilemma. Strong arms always win, a sense of order is always preferable randomness, the unpredictableness of your existence will cause you to prioritize; if the Afghans are example.

    Another case in point, ????Ghaddafi was a far superior evil to the terror of ISIS. Despots don’t arise spontaneously, they’re welcomed

  31. Christ why dont you put this comment section on top? No you are wrong
    JD tucker is right.

  32. Tyranny is defined as the violation of rights! The rioting *IS* tyranny and Tucker is right, and I’d expect Reason to know this! Holy hell! This is *basic* guys.

  33. Can I hate the police and the rioters?

  34. When a whole segment of society believes the system is broken, then the system is broken.

    1. You’re not going to find any argument here.

  35. ANTIFA are using the same tactics as the brown shirts of pre-NAZI Germany. They just add assault, arson, looting, and other mayhem. When OUR government fails to do its primary responsibility, they are not tyrants, but have ceded to tyrants.

    1. Yes, exactly. Apparently they didn’t read what happened to the brown shirts when they got their way.

  36. Even by Reason’s low standards this was a remarkably idiotic article.

  37. I live within 3 blocks of “peaceful” protests where 20 cops were injured and tear gas sank in through my basement cellar and into my house. These “organized protests” were supposed to end yesterday but continue today. I am a single mom of two you g children living in a good neighborhood near a touristy area. We are not accustomed to 24/7 helicopters, tear gas side effects, and privileged white millennials marching up and down our PORCHES! I had one filming me while I explained it’s self defense if he got any closer to my door. Useless pieces of crap. The message is lost when our fine city is paying thousands to clean up their trash, graffiti and broken windows/looting. I shouldn’t have to be a prisoner in my own home- especially after months of Draconian measures that cost me a job and made me a homeschooler for 100 total deaths in the state (including those not actually covid related but tallied anyway)…my patience is gone. Get TF out of my neighborhood and go away!!!!!!

  38. I actually found an article on the autopsy of Mr. Floyd. It said he died of a very high level of intoxicants and heart disease not being asphyxiated. Does that make what the cop did right? But it isn’t quite the execution more of a very bad judgement by a cop who unfortunately seems like too many today in the paramilitary force that we have allowed our peace officers to become. As someone who came of age in the 80’s have to say it all started with these groups like mothers against drunk driving always agitating for harsher punishment and stronger law enforcement. Then a few decades later Bush decides islamic terrorists are in every town and we need to militarize the police..give them fully automatic weapons, armored vehicles and so on…and a new mindset in at least big city police forces…that of the military policeman/women. I don’t think you find this in county sheriffs or rural cops..it is very big city. Best ting we can do is to demilitarize the cops and end the drug wars..that alone will do more for our inner cities than another trillion in welfare programs.

  39. Reason has officially jumped the shark and made a mockery of their own title.

  40. Stupid.

  41. I’ve lived under a totalitarian government; referring to the occasional abuse of power by US police as “tyrannical” is worse than ignorant.

    Go to hell, Tucille: you are a pampered, ignorant, privileged American whiner.

    1. What about being asked not to cough virus on other people? Is that tyranny?

      1. Asking people to do anything is not tyranny.

      2. And, Tony, you are a pampered, ignorant, privileged (North) American whiner as well.

      3. Only if you’re not also trying to murder store owners in the name of Communist totalitarianism and black supremacy.

        I mean, “equality”.

  42. Tu quoque?

  43. Reason Magazine, what is your opinion about the accusation that the only reason you wrote this article, is to not be banned from your local swinger club ?
    The people need to know the truth !

  44. Would all those who think it’s justified to destroy private property to protest police abuses please list their names and addresses so they can be properly recognized?

  45. Abusive policing is tyranny, but riots are destructive. Rioting is a form of tyranny. Don’t you be wrong. Tucker Carlson is not wrong.

  46. They’re BOTH true: rioting can be destructive AND abusice policing is tyranny..
    What genius thinks that they have to be mutually exclusive???

    1. Tyrannies generally result in a lot of police abuse. But abuse by the police isn’t per se tyranny.

  47. This was not ‘abusive policing’. If it was; the guy who killed the counterfeiter would not be in jail. The bad cop was charged with murder. Using the authors twisted logic we can say of this incident that all black are counterfeiters. Does that make sense? Of course not; and neither does any of this crisis.

    1. “The bad cop was charged with murder. ”

      Meanwhile the three other cops who participated in the event, and took no action to stop it, remain uncharged.

      The fundamental problem underlying this event is a complete lack of accountability. A problem that flows through the entire city government.

  48. I’m not sure all the innocent people beaten, or who had their businesses burned to the ground, or who are scared to go out at night think rioting isn’t tyranny. This bozo writer wouldn’t think that if the violence was direct at him or his family. Despicable viewpoint. Reason should be ashamed for advocating violence and promoting tribalism over individualism.

  49. The police weren’t being “murderously indifferent”. They were just waiting for Floyd George to come down off of a methedrine-fentynal rush and become human again. That madness doesn’t last long.

    1. Maybe though it would help if they restricted the flow of drug tainted blood going to his brain?

  50. And the beclownment of Reason authors continues apace.

    1. They’ve made their bet. They think the progressives will be their friends. It takes a special kind of stupidity to be a progressatarian.

  51. Another leftist who excuses outbursts of violence.

  52. The rioters do not give two craps about George Floyd. They are communists. So, why should they?

  53. The rioters in Richmond, VA set fire to a house with a child inside, and made it difficult for fire personnel to put it out. Rioting and looting endanger people’s lives in a variety of ways; they are not limited to the destruction and theft of property. Here in Santa Monica, much of the really effective looting was done by criminal gangs, who know how to get in and strip a place quickly.

  54. “ “tyranny” and applied it not to government employees who deploy violence as a tool of first resort when terrorizing communities, but to those who turn violent in response.”

    Right. When AntiFa tries to murder Jewish speakers and gay Asian reporters, and the police (assuming they weren’t ordered to eat popcorn and watch by Democratic governors) show up to protect the victims, they’re tyrannizing the rights of Communist terrorists to do whatever the fuck they want to whoever they want.

    Did that shitbag Tony commission this false equivalent idiocy?

  55. Reason?
    Is that what this is called?

    Isn’t it pretty much impossible to reason if we begin by ignoring the very meaning of the words we’re using as we pretend to be, let’s say, ‘reasoning’?

    Tyranny: the oppressive use of power, the unjust use of power, cruel and unfair treatment by someone in power.

    Yes, governments can be tyrannical. So can mobs. So can Big Neighbor Bob, standing their with a club, who makes poor Stan mow his lawn every week. Tyranny is the unfair, unjust, disproportionate use of power against the powerless …regardless of whether or not that power resides in the hands of the State or some asshole wearing a mask and swinging a 2X4.

    Tyranny terrorizes….and if we’re talking about terrorizing a community, it’s hard to imagine anything more terrorizing than an anarchic mob, drunk on rage and lawlessness, torching buildings, destroying businesses, shattering windows, shooting & stabbing, their way down main street while the Mayor instructs the police to ‘let them express their anger’… night after night after night.

    Tyranny is also the voice of those who should use their bully pulpit to call the guilty to account but who abuse that power to instead enable that same violence while telling us that anarchic arson and destruction is just a justified ‘pushback’…. Who echo the mob, by labeling the police, “abusive government enforcers who have a reputation for specifically targeting African Americans.”

    This is journalism? This is an effort to discover and enable Truth….the gossipy implication of a “reputation”? Should we equally waste our time and talk about the author’s ‘reputation’ (as though a ‘reputation’ actually means anything)???

    What say we look not at ‘gossip’ but at the actual crime stats, instead? (A novel idea)

    Shall we note the disproportionately Black nature of criminal behavior, the fact that a cop is 2.5X more likely to encounter a Black criminal in a random stop than a White criminal? Shall we highlight a Black murder rate 5X that of the White community? Shall we quote the DOJ report which tells us, “that the incidence of crimes against persons by young (18-to-20 year old), Black males is exceedingly high, with a rate of 8,500 such offenses per 10,000 in that subgroup per year.”

    Is it “racist policing” if, indeed, the police are significantly more wary of encounters with young Black men in questionable circumstances? Is it ‘racist’ to be wary of bears when hiking in bear country? Or to not want to walk down a dark alley, at 2:00 AM, in a questionable neighborhood? Or is it simply common sense?

    “On the opening day of law school, I always counsel my first-year students never to support a law they are not willing to kill to enforce,” Yale Law School’s Stephen L. Carter wrote in 2014. It’s hard to imagine a comment any more asinine.

    Law exists as a curb to bad, undesirable, socially-disapproved behavior. We enforce law because we seek to dissuade and punish the lawbreaker and protect the society which made the very law which was broken.

    There are very few criminal behaviors which would require, per law, the taking of the criminal’s life. But that distinctly does not mean that the only laws we should have and enforce are those which relate to capital crime. No! Would you like a little anarchy with your fries?

    The question is not, for me or the police, “Is the theft of my bike worth the death of the thief?” Rather the question for the thief is, “Is the theft of that bike worth the loss of your life?” The scolding from Yale should not be directed at Society…as in ‘never support a law you’re not willing to kill to enforce’. Rather the lecture should be aimed at the criminal…as in “Never break a law you’re not willing to die to break.”

    We may take, perhaps, some small comfort in the author’s niggling validation that “riots are certainly destructive, and counterproductive, and flat-out wrong.” They are, of course, all of that. But they are also absolutely tyrannical and intolerable.

    Perhaps — as the mindless, masked mob with their Molotov cocktails, their knives, their guns, their clubs rages its way through a neighborhood, torching, hurting & destroying everyone and everything in its path — perhaps one day the author might find himself standing before them, in front of his shop, in front of his home, in front of his family. Would he then re-echo: “certainly this riot is wrong” as the mob approaches and homes burn? Would he then reassure his family, “but it’s just a legitimate, albeit violent, pushback because the police have an abusive reputation.”

    “For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! But it’s ” Saviour of ‘is country ” when the guns begin to shoot.”

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