Mike Huckabee

Huckabee Is Out of the Race; Huckabeeism Is Alive and Well

Another candidate drops out.

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Exit, stage right. Or left. Kind of a mix, really.
Gage Skidmore

Last night Arkansas governor turned cancer-cure pitchman Mike Huckabee suspended his presidential campaign. Most of Huckabee's press coverage stressed the candidate's socially conservative views, but he was more than just another Christian conservative. On issues like trade and entitlements—and even more than that, with the endorsements he sought and the rhetoric he used—Huckabee aimed for voters who didn't mix their social conservatism with Club for Growth economics.

Last May I started telling people that Huckabee was trying to tap into the populist currents described in Donald Warren's 1976 book The Radical Center: Middle Americans and the Politics of Alienation. Warren, a sociologist at the University of Michigan, sketched the views of the group he called Middle American Radicals, or MARs:

On some issues, MARs are likely to take a "liberal" stand, on others a "conservative" one. For example, the MAR expresses a desire for more police power. He feels that granting the police a heavier hand will help control crime, i.e., [George] Wallace's Law and Order program. However, MARs are adamant about keeping many social reforms, often wrought by the left, such as medicare, aid to education and social security.

Often MARs feel their problems stem from the rich and the government working together to defraud the rest of the country. They blame the situation on defects in the system such as bad taxes.

Trump is from MARs, Vermin Supreme is from Venus.
University of Notre Dame Press

Warren's book has been getting more attention than usual lately, thanks to an October article about it by John Judis in the National Journal. But the Judis piece didn't mention Huckabee—and why should it? Huckabee's campaign was going nowhere. The candidate collecting most of the MARs' support was Donald Trump.

That makes a sort of ideological sense. The "social conservatism" embraced by MARs tends to give more weight to resenting the underclass than to quoting the Bible. And while Huckabee cast himself as a law-and-order candidate this time around, his record in that area is relatively liberal by Republican standards. Not so with Trump, who was spouting Wallace-worthy rhetoric way back in 1989: "How can our great society tolerate the continued brutalization of its citizens by crazed misfits? Criminals must be told that their CIVIL LIBERTIES END WHEN AN ATTACK ON OUR SAFETY BEGINS!"

But you never know where the MAR vote is going to end up, or even if it's going to show up at all. One theme of Warren's book is that MARs don't tend to be big on voting—they don't trust most politicians, they doubt they can have much impact on the system, and they generally prefer to act on a local level. Another is that when they do vote, their mix of ideas can lead them in all sorts of directions. In a survey at the outset of the 1975-76 presidential campaign, Warren found that the two Democratic candidates who were most popular with MARs were George Wallace and Ted Kennedy, a couple even odder than Mike Huckabee and Donald Trump.

Last night Ted Cruz finished first in Iowa, thanks largely to the Christian conservatives who handed the state to Huckabee back in 2008; Trump finished second, with a big boost no doubt from the MAR vote. Mike Huckabee was ninth, with just 2 percent. Huckabee is not going to become president—not next year and probably not ever. But Huckabeeism seems to be doing rather well.

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  1. More posts all at the same time, please.

    1. Now you’ve brought on the three-hour drought.

      1. At least we’ve got both american socialist AND Cytotoxic holding forth in that other thread over there.

        1. I’m here too. Where I’m needed.

          1. Your mom needs you to go upstairs and finish your homework.

  2. Huckabee drops out with a joke: His campaign was plagued by sickness

    “Voters are sick of me,” he quipped.

    He told about 200 campaign staff and supporters gathered at a West Des Moines event center that he had called the top three vote-getters ? Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, businessman Donald Trump and Florida Sen. Marco Rubio ? and congratulated them.

    “They were very gracious. That’s easy to do when you win,” he laughed.”

    Wow Huck, that is some passive-aggressive bullshit right there.

  3. Criminals must be told that their CIVIL LIBERTIES END WHEN AN ATTACK ON OUR SAFETY BEGINS!

    If we knew what race the criminals in question were, this comment would fit neatly into a H&R comment thread.

    1. You know who else thought criminals were comprised of a particular race?

        1. Are you guessing at which commentor or which race?

          1. muh-ah-ah

      1. Irish?

        1. This is absurd. I don’t know what on Earth is the matter with you people. My argument was purely that you couldn’t prove racism by cops because of racial disparities. As evidence of this point, I pointed out that a number of crimes actually are committed disproportionately by African Americans, hence more of them getting in trouble for those crimes is not proof it’s because of racism.

          It is of course a basic fact a higher percentage of African Americans commit crimes, but we’re talking percentages and I never made any claim that this was because they’re black. It could be socio-economics, could be culture – doesn’t matter. Point is the disparity exists, so if more African Americans get in trouble with the law, that’s not proof the cops are racist. In fact, culture in America often breaks strongly along racial lines, so it’s unsurprising you see differences in behavior that superficially look racial.

          That’s it. All you people are pieces of shit for pretending otherwise. Fuck each and every one of you.

          1. Irish!

          2. Dude. You extrapolated those percentages to apply to getting speeding tickets and completely ignored the highway robbery/easy victim aspect of the predatory cops. That’s why you were given shit. Do you understand why that seemed fucked?

            1. Errors in logic are not ipso facto proof of racism.

              Else the entirety of my mathematical proofing work in intro to proofs oh-so-many years ago would have gotten me fined for discrimination, heh.

            2. No. I didn’t. My point was that there are disparities in behavior. Period. I was immediately called a racist for that and got defensive because it was unfair.

              If there are disparities in behavior regarding homicide, theft, and rape, why can there not be disparities in behavior that cause more African Americans to get in trouble for traffic violations? Give me a single argument as to why that point is invalid. So far no one has done it, you pulled the SJW card of screaming racist rather than even considering the point.

              And again, it is a laughable joke that you fucking idiots completely ignored the fact that I STARTED THE ARGUMENT by acknowledging it is highway robbery. Look back at that post. I started by saying NO ONE should ever be ticketed for seat belt violations. The point is that saying this is highway robbery does not immediately imply the disparity between African American and white people being robbed is down to racial discrimination.

              In fact, it could be down to economic differences. If people are being discriminated against by class, it could show up as a racial difference when it’s class discrimination rather than race discrimination.

              This is a point I would have loved to have made if you guys hadn’t started insulting me immediately.

              1. Well, I never called you anything, or ever accused anyone of being a racist–you jumped to that conclusion all by yourself. Which should tell you something about your own defensiveness. But regardless, my point was always that it’s absurd to extrapolate criminal statistics to traffic offenses that are known magnets for cop quotas, but if this is how you want to play that, you got it.

                1. “Which should tell you something about your own defensiveness”

                  Well no, actually, my defensiveness stems from Playa and HOD immediately making ridiculous remarks about how I was arguing ‘the darkies had it coming’ even though I outright stated no one should get in trouble for seat belt violations.

                  So my defensiveness didn’t spring out of nowhere, it came from unfair accusations that people made instead of arguing with my point re: disparities in punishment not proving that those disparities are caused by racism.

                  1. If your defensiveness stems from people other than me, then you should focus your defensiveness on them, and not me. Since I never called you a racist and kept the focus on what I thought about extrapolating criminal statistics to non-criminal offenses. If that’s too much for you to multitask, so be it.

              2. “if you guys hadn’t started insulting me immediately.”

                Welcome to the SugarFree-Epi-etc Glibertarian Axis. Making ignorant glib remarks since 2007.

              3. I’m going to love watching someone cherry pick this sentence:

                “My point was that there are disparities in behavior.”

                While ignoring this one:

                “In fact, it could be down to economic differences. If people are being discriminated against by class, it could show up as a racial difference when it’s class discrimination rather than race discrimination.”

                and then try and call me a racist again. It’s amazing.

                Also, just to once again hedge because I know you people are being dishonest, when I say ‘disparities in behavior’ I mean ‘in the aggregate,’ i.e., I can’t tell anything about an individual, but taken in the aggregate there is higher crime rates among African Americans than, say, Asians.

                Have fun arguing it’s racist to point out different cultural groups sometimes behave differently.

          3. And watching people here go full SJW over a basic point about actually existing crime disparities is hilarious. I took great pains to point out this isn’t because the act of being black makes you more likely to be a criminal, but was because there are all sorts of historical factors that could result in cultural differences. Thomas Sowell actually wrote a book arguing that problems with black inner city culture stemmed from African Americans adopting lower class white culture during the Great Migration. Is Thomas Sowell a racist for acknowledging such cultural problems exist and impact why a disproportionate number of African Americans get in trouble with the law? If not, why not?

            1. And watching people here go full SJW

              Yup. That’s exactly what happened.

              1. Jimmy the Greek?

              2. “I took great pains to point out this isn’t because the act of being black makes you more likely to be a criminal, but was because there are all sorts of historical factors that could result in cultural differences”

                Want to contend with this point or would it get in the way of calling people racists?

                1. Irish, that would require critical thinking, and that’s hard. SugarFree and Epi don’t do hard because that is not gratifying. Oh now you know my world re foreign policy.

                2. You keep saying that black people are actually more likely to be criminals, but that’s one of the things in dispute.

                  1. “You keep saying that black people are actually more likely to be criminals, but that’s one of the things in dispute.”

                    Really? Because the data is pretty clear that they are unfortunately.

                    1. “The data” being police stats? Yeah, the whole point is that doesn’t count.

                    2. “”The data” being police stats? Yeah, the whole point is that doesn’t count.”

                      So then you have some sort of evidence to suggest police stats are wrong, correct?

                      Question: All the really bad crimes (homicide, rape, serious theft) occur more frequently in African American neighborhoods. Do you seriously think that those serious crimes (which we know exist because we can see their impact outside of police statistics) occur more frequently in black neighborhoods but less serious crimes don’t?

                      Tell me, when I worked sales in the inner city, why did all of the businesses have bars over their windows and many had locked doors you couldn’t get into without them buzzing you? Do you think they do that for fun, or because the people in those neighborhoods realize that there’s more crime and they need to be vigilant? Or are inner city business people just tricked by police stats into thinking there’s crime in their neighborhoods which doesn’t actually exist?

                    3. So then you have some sort of evidence to suggest police stats are wrong, correct?

                      My three felonies a day aren’t among them, so yes, I do.

                    4. Nicole, there are criminals who commit three felonies in approximately 10 minutes. Give me a night with a criminal from inner city Chicago and we’ll see how many felonies I can witness.

                      Moreover, your three felonies are mostly meaningless bullshit no one cares about, which is slightly different from aggravated assault, breaking and entering, grand theft auto, shootings, muggings…

                    5. I read somewhere, and I wish I could remember where. That the windows on bars thing actually worsened crime in neighborhoods. I’m oversimplifying but as bars go up, people feel less safe in a neighborhood and non-criminals are less likely to be out walking the streets, which creates more opportunities for crime, which encourages more people to bars on their windows etc.

                    6. “That the windows on bars thing actually worsened crime in neighborhoods. I’m oversimplifying but as bars go up, people feel less safe in a neighborhood and non-criminals are less likely to be out walking the streets”

                      Huh. I think that’s possible. It doesn’t matter though because the point is that this is evidence of crime outside police stats, so it supports my initial point.

                    7. Nah, wasn’t meant to be an argument for or against something, just something I read once that stuck in my head as an interesting detail on how communities in decline often accidentally accelerate their own decline.

                    8. “”The data” being police stats? Yeah, the whole point is that doesn’t count.”

                      Sorry but it’s clear that urban areas where a lot of black people live tend to be pretty crimey.

                    9. I don’t believe there’s any source which suggests that violent and property crime is evenly distributed throughout race and class. I challenge you to find any source — police or third party — which suggests this, or which suggests that higher-income ethnic groups are more likely to be property or violent criminals.

                    10. “”The data” being police stats? Yeah, the whole point is that doesn’t count.’

                      Well there is some data that can’t be whipped out of thin air.

                      like “Dead Bodies”

                      unless you mean to suggest that murder rates are created by over-policing

                    11. unless you mean to suggest that murder rates are created by over-policing

                      Well, of course they are. How many inner-city murders happen in a world of legal drugs and prostitution?

                    12. Well, of course they are. How many inner-city murders happen in a world of legal drugs and prostitution?

                      So your contention is that if police didn’t exist there would be no more violent crime?

                    13. or significantly less?

                    14. There’s a case to be made there, IH. I don’t think violent crime would disappear but changes in prosecution of the drug war in Portugal changed their violent crime stats.

                      For clarity sake: I believe overall economic well being in Portugal also improved around this time, so I think there are some confounding factors. I’d hate for someone to read this and think I was saying it was 100% of the reason or something.

                    15. ” I’d hate for someone to read this and think I was saying it was 100% of the reason or something.’

                      I’d just like to remind everyone i’m the only person here who’s ever been knifed by a heroin addict in Portugal.

                    16. Wait, story time!

                      Also when was it? My understanding was their drug related crime was embarrassingly high throughout the ’90s.

                    17. ” story time!

                      Also when was it?”

                      I think it was 2002 or so. I’d planned a vacation w/ my GF and we’d narrowed criteria down to “Foreign language”, “warm-ish”, “City + beach”, “Cheap”. Portugal beat out majorca and greece because the flights were super cheap.

                      We stayed in the Bairro Alto (“high neighborhood”) It was the Hipster-nightlife corner. Lisbon is like Rome – surrounded by hills which each have cute names and their own ‘cultures’.

                      on like day 3 we walked up the “Castillo” hill which has a ruined moorish castle overlooking the city. very romantic. however the backside is a slum. we took a wrong turn and ran into a tall egyptian man with a swiss army knife. I laughed at his knife (it was the 1″ pen knife blade) and pointed at myself, “New York”. You can’t mug me with that.

                      fast forward and we’re doing a TJ hooker routine rolling on the ground. my GF tossed 60 escudos on the ground and he grabbed it and ran. I wiped my clothes off and said, “well that was fun”. Then we noticed that there were huge bloodstains wherever i wiped.

                    18. Ha! Thanks that story is everything I could’ve hoped for in a travel stabbing tale. Sorry you got shanked though. Other than the stabbing, how did you like Portugal? It’s on the list, but about mid-way down right now.

                    19. (contd)

                      my personal triage determined that i’d put my hand in the path of his knife and it sliced the tip of the finger and the palm. i squeezed my finger and shot blood at my GF to make her scream. the neighbors came out. one guy was a nurse and gave me a warm beer and put a bandage on my finger. the locals all complained that the druggies were mugging tourists every day, but i was the first to throw down with him. I flexed a muscle and did a john wayne impression. New York, i repeated. It seemed to make an impression. Eventually some cops wandered over. slowly. the police station was about 100 feet away. they were smoking cigarettes. they felt they needed to fill out a report. everyone yelled at them in portugese and they shrugged. they took me and the GF to the hospital where i was given 10 stitches, and then the police station where a fat woman took our report over the course of 3 hours. I got so bored and frustrated that i started adding lots of utterly useless details just to see what she would write down.

                      about 2 years later i got a letter in the mail written in portugese that had a photo of the guy who mugged me. i signed it and mailed it back. and so justice was served. the end.

                    20. Other than the stabbing, how did you like Portugal?

                      It was fucking amazing and i said at the time i’d love to move there if it wasn’t for the tangibly-corrupt government and the utterly despondent economy.

                      It has almost everything i love about europe with none of the bullshit –

                      “old world” architecture, food, small dense city centers surrounded by lots of very-distinct villages…

                      plus it has a huge “ocean” culture and maritime thing. the food, the fact that they are a historically “sailing” people, their industry is all about trade… coastal “sailing’ people tend to always be pretty chill and ballsy at the same time. its a style of living i’ve always been attracted to. They also party like spaniards but without the fat men groping the skinny girls all the time. Bairro Alto remains one of the most fun neighborhoods i’ve ever visited. Big downside – you drink your way down the hill, but the hotel is at the top. when dawn comes, you have to slog your way up.

                      I’d go back there in a heartbeat. the best short trip there is to do the “Lisbon, Caiscais, Sintra” circle. City, beach, mountains. do like 3 days in the city, 2 days at the beach, then 2 days biking in the mountains. This is Sintra. yes, its all a little nuts.

                    21. This is Sintra. yes, its all a little nuts.

                      Fuck, it definitely climbed the list there.

                      “old world” architecture, food, small dense city centers surrounded by lots of very-distinct villages…

                      Yeah, this is one of my favorite things about traveling in Europe.

                      I’d go back there in a heartbeat. the best short trip there is to do the “Lisbon, Caiscais, Sintra” circle. City, beach, mountains. do like 3 days in the city, 2 days at the beach, then 2 days biking in the mountains

                      How good would my bike shape have to be? 9 months out the year I’m riding to and from work a few times a week light to moderate hills on a commuter bike. I know my grandparents did a bike tour of Denmark and did a bunch of distance training on gorgeous old Peugeot touring bikes (which I did not get first crack at when they sold), and then got there and it was all single speed bikes and they adjusted but weren’t well prepared for it.

                    22. “How good would my bike shape have to be? 9 months out the year I’m riding to and from work a few times a week light to moderate hills on a commuter bike”

                      You’re fine. Sintra is like san-francisco hills. Steep, but not very high. its a small cute town with lots of little sights and parks and would get boring after 48 hours, but is a nice respite after getting crazy drunk in the city, then sun-burning and sand-blasting yourself in Caiscais.

                      here’s the place to stay at the beach = “Hotel Fortaleza do Guincho” Absurdly expensive (even then), but worth it for 2 days. Like 300-400 a night i think when we were there. and we haggled when we got there! I was pretty salty after getting stabbed and strongarmed everyone into giving me discounts.

                    23. Awesome. I’m bookmarking this for reference. It sounds like a great trip (although I’ll probably look at scaling back costs a bit, my travel budget tends to be tighter than I’d prefer).

                    24. We stayed in cheapo hostels in Lisbon and Sintra which were like $40 for a room with a bed and a shared bathroom. they were fine, in fact the one in Bairro Alto was *classy* (on Rua de Rosa). poster bed, view.

                      also, food was ridiculous cheap (at the time) $20 was like a 5 course meal for 2 with wine.

                      And oh, the wine. I drank 2-4 bottles of Vinho Verde a day. “planalto” I was absolutely sodden. they were giving the stuff away. bottles were $1 or so.

                      i splurged on the beach digs because why the fuck not. Cascais town had its own beach but it was more like a marina and I liked the Guincho locale which was more-isolated, about 2 miles outside the town center. the wind blows like 30 knots all day long and you have to put a screen up to avoid being scored by the sand. It was worth blowing some cash for the convenience and the indulgence of staying in a 17th century fort.

                    25. Yes, I think there would be significantly less violent crime if the state didn’t create massive black markets.

                    26. ‘How many inner-city murders happen in a world of legal drugs and prostitution?”

                      Other races don’t engage in drug use or prostitution? i had no idea.

                    27. Other races don’t engage in drug use or prostitution? i had no idea.

                      And I’m sure you also had no idea that we outsource the most dangerous parts of the trade.

                    28. “We”

                      ?

                      I missed that conference where all the white people got together and said, “Let’s make sure all the drugs are distributed by black folk”

                      I get it, you find evidence you don’t like, and you’ll start vigorously handwaving. It was fun while it lasted.

                    29. Evidence I don’t like of what? I care literally not at all about racial disparities in murder rates. Seriously, I can’t imagine caring less.

                      But if you really think Chicago’s gang violence would be the same in a world of legal drugs, I think you’ve hit the crack pipe a bit too much lately.

                    30. ” I care literally not at all about racial disparities in murder rates. Seriously, I can’t imagine caring less.’

                      its probably not important.

                    31. I read some book about Detroit and this retired homicide detective said that they could keep homicide rates a little low by classifying some dead bodies as “death by misadventure” rather than the murders they obviously were. Only works if no family cares about the dead person of course. He gave an example of a homeless guy found dead, naked, and thrown down an elevator shaft (or a chute of some sort) in an abandoned warehouse. Clearly murdered, classified as death by misadventure.

              3. Yup. That’s exactly what happened.

                Funny, I don’t remember too many people having a rebuttal to Irish’s point other than “racist” from that thread. HM being one of the few, but I seem to recall a bunch of people pulled the race card.

                1. HM actually tried to argue the point, Playa and Hamster of Doom mostly just shouted racist.

                  1. And I though Playa was a cool guy.

                    1. I don’t have a problem with him. I just got in a fight with him the one time. No need to hate someone based on one disagreement, even if it does involve accusations of racism.

                    2. Oh, calm down, Irish. I mean, you’ve got Cytotoxic on your side. That guarantees that you are correct, right?

                    3. ” you’ve got Cytotoxic on your side. That guarantees that you are correct, right?’

                      That’s low man

                  2. I typed one sentence a few days ago to see if I could get a reaction out of you.

                    Lots of spilled ink since then, so… mission accomplished?

          4. It doesn’t really matter the genesis of the belief (race, class, culture, etc), the direct consequences of this view are more programs like stop-and-frisk, which target black people. More scrutiny means more arrests for minor crimes, means stacked statistics, means more funding for stop-and-frisk, means more arrests for minor crimes…

            If there were the level of scrutiny on young white males’ internet habits that there are on black people walking down the street you’d probably see an epidemic of white people viewing porn they didn’t realize was underage. That doesn’t mean that young white males are overwhelmingly pedophiles, it means that if you’re looking hard enough you can find things to pop someone for, and people are looking intently at young black men.

            1. “it means that if you’re looking hard enough you can find things to pop someone for, and people are looking intently at young black men.’

              Are you suggesting that 100% of the disparity in crime statistics is a result of “too much policing”?

              1. “Are you suggesting that 100% of the disparity in crime statistics is a result of “too much policing”?”

                No, Jesse’s actually arguing honestly, unlike certain people.

                He’s just saying there are differences in the types of crime that get focused on, and those types of crime may impact African Americans more. It’s a fair point. And a point I’d love to argue with if it weren’t for everyone else screaming that it’s racist to point out that disparities in punishment doesn’t prove the disparity is caused by discrimination.

                1. He’s just saying there are differences in the types of crime that get focused on, and those types of crime may impact African Americans more.

                  This. I seem to remember from the earlier post that Nicole (maybe?) had pointed out that young drivers are disproportionately pulled over. I think that’s a good comparison because young drivers are definitely transgressing traffic laws all over the place, but law enforcement is also known to pop them more frequently for being young. It’s clearly not 100% of the story, but by that part in the argument everyone was in full brouhaha mode and it got lost in the shuffle.

                2. ” there are differences in the types of crime that get focused on, and those types of crime may impact African Americans more”

                  Sure.

                  What’s the crime that shows the greatest disparity?

              2. You know full well that’s not what I’m saying, GILMORE.

                1. “You know full well that’s not what I’m saying, GILMORE.”

                  I woudn’t have asked the question if i knew that’s what you were saying.

                  Do you believe there is any disparity in criminality which can’t be explained away by other demographic features like poverty, geographic location, education, etc?

                  1. Do you believe there is any disparity in criminality which can’t be explained away by other demographic features like poverty, geographic location, education, etc?

                    I’m not going to speak for jesse, but in the world of three felonies a day, I don’t see how much room there can possibly be for such disparities.

                    1. “… I don’t see how much room there can possibly be for such disparities.”

                      you can isolate every single demographic factor and run comparisons and look for differences.

                      i don’t want to have to get all “steve sailer”, but there’s plenty of data to make the points anyone might want to make.

                    2. And when I run comparisons and look for differences, everyone’s going to be a criminal.

                      Everyone.

                    3. “And when I run comparisons and look for differences, everyone’s going to be a criminal.

                      Everyone.”

                      But the severity of the crime is different and the visibility of the crime is different.

                      When I go around inner city Chicago (I go to some rough neighborhoods once in a while because my job involves delivering law suit stuff to poor people sometimes) I see tons of people walking around illegally selling pirated videos, loosie cigarettes, etc. This crime is very visible. If I were a cop and just walked down there, I could arrest a lot of people.

                      Selling a pirated video on the corner is much easier for a cop to spot than someone just downloading the same pirated video online. Both have committed crimes, one is much more visible and easier to prosecute.

                      Again, that’s another difference between white and black crime, but it’s a difference *not based on racism* which could cause more black people to get in trouble for a petty crime.

                    4. But the severity of the crime is different and the visibility of the crime is different.

                      That has no bearing on whether the perpetrators are “criminals” and thus whether black people are actually more likely to be criminals than white people are. We’re all criminals. Many of us are just lucky enough to not get caught.

                    5. ‘And when I run comparisons and look for differences, everyone’s going to be a criminal.

                      Everyone.”

                      you can certainly raise the overall ‘crime rate’ among any given group by enforcing lots of petty laws.

                      but i was thinking more about about significant disparities in specific types of crime which aren’t easily explained away by other demographic criteria.

                      e.g. “Murder

                    6. but i was thinking more about about significant disparities in specific types of crime which aren’t easily explained away by other demographic criteria.

                      Then that has nothing to do with my objection to Irish’s claim that black people are more likely to be criminals than white people are.

                    7. “Then that has nothing to do with my objection to Irish’s claim that black people are more likely to be criminals than white people are.”

                      ok, so no interest in actually addressing the most significant difference in criminality

                    8. No, I have no interest in that until the drug war is over and we have any idea what black communities look like when they’re not set up around black markets.

                    9. Because there are no black markets in any other communities.

                  2. I’m just not sure where you got 100%, GILMORE. I think enforcement priorities skew crime statistics, and rarefy enforcement priorities, but rereading my statement I don’t think I made a claim that the disparity was wholly created from that, just that overall crime stats would be skewed by it.

                    1. “I don’t think I made a claim that the disparity was wholly created from that, just that overall crime stats would be skewed by it.’

                      Overall crime stats are also skewed by huge differences in other types of crimes.

                      i.e. the non-petty-ones that have little relationship to levels of policing.

                      the fallback would be that all these other things are entirely consequences of other demographic criteria.

                      however, the argument basically paints itself into a corner pretending that everything in human life is SOOPER SIGNIFICANT except race.

              3. Yeppers. When Jesse said that disparate crime statistics are a consequence of differences in enforcement methods, what he was secretly saying is that’s the only factor and everyone knows that black people don’t really commit crimes. Looks like you’ve ‘quacked’ another case, ducktective.

                1. “When Jesse said that disparate crime statistics are a consequence of differences in enforcement methods, what he was secretly saying is that’s the only factor and everyone knows that black people don’t really commit crimes

                  I just want to say you do a wonderful job as a ‘color man’/cheerleader whenever anything needs to be converted to a stupid culture-war pissing match.

                  1. He’s a hipster pretending to be smart.

                2. “When Jesse said that disparate crime statistics are a consequence of differences in enforcement methods, what he was secretly saying is that’s the only factor and everyone knows that black people don’t really commit crimes.”

                  You mean like how when I said there are differences in behavior in the aggregate between black and white people due to cultural differences what I was really saying was that darkies need to be jailed to protect our white women?

                  It’s weird how you only notice unfair strawmen from one side of this argument.

                  1. “It’s weird how you only notice unfair strawmen from one side of this argument.”

                    Rah rah, sis-boom bah

            2. AFAIK, current policing efforts aren’t exactly oriented to discovering crimes committed on the internet. Why would this be considered an example of racism, when the internet is relatively new, relatively unpoliced, and the police’s mandate and duties largely relate to crimes committed in physical space?

              You might as well be asking why the police are unlikely to be sifting through financial statements to arrest bankers for more white-collar crimes.

              1. AFAIK, current policing efforts aren’t exactly oriented to discovering crimes committed on the internet.

                Exactly. If you were looking at where I or my cohort spend their time, you would find plenty of criminal activity to pop them with…Back when Napster was a thing even more so since every song downloaded was considered an individual theft…

                I’m not asking why they aren’t sifting through the internet, I’m just pointing out that my participation in crime doesn’t get counted because nobody is watching me.

                1. “I’m not asking why they aren’t sifting through the internet, I’m just pointing out that my participation in crime doesn’t get counted because nobody is watching me.”

                  One reason no one is watching you is because they tend to look where serious crime is committed.

                  One thing not mentioned when it comes to disparities in white vs. black people getting picked up by cops, is that a lot of black neighborhoods have really high rates of serious crime, such as homicide. This results in cops focusing on certain areas due to those crimes, and people committing more minor crimes end up getting unlucky because they get picked up as a result of a larger police presence in the area.

                  The way to fix this problem is to get rid of all those unnecessary minor crimes, particularly drug crimes. That would disproportionately help blacks since they wouldn’t get picked up for ticky-tac shit when cops are swirling around due to a string of muggings in the area.

            3. It should be noted, I don’t think you’re racist. I do think it’s a mistake to argue primarily from those numbers and not take into account concerns that police prejudice plays into how enforcement is structured.

              On a less touchy version of this a guy I went to HS got pulled over constantly because he was a HSer driving a bright yellow car. I got rides with him to lunch pretty frequently and he was definitely not doing the speed limit, but he also wasn’t doing anything that everyone else on the road was doing. If he was criming as much as everyone else but got pulled over disproportionately we have to wonder what other factors were at play there.

              1. Are you suggesting that 100% of the disparity in crime statistics is a result of “too much policing”?

                1. Well, if there were no policing there wouldn’t be any crime statistics.

                  :.Crime is all the police’s fault.

                  /sarc

              2. IMHO as a minority type who’s sometimes confused for mulatto, Irish has it mostly right. It’s a class thing.

                The police are no more racist than anyone else in their local community, and have gone through great efforts to reduce racial bias in policing. The problem is that what they do inherently has disproportionate impact on lower class neighborhoods (where most overt violent and property crime happens), and this of course intersects with race. I grew up poor, and mostly acted like it growing up. When I moved into the upper class and adopted upper class mannerisms and dress, my police interactions got significantly more positive.

                The problem with focusing on race WRT the police is that we have done essentially everything we can to resolve this problem — and the problems that are left are related to *how we police* rather than who does the policing. We are more likely to reduce the problem of lower-class males getting harassed and jailed for petty infringements if we step back and look at what we do to police, rather than looking at the issue through the prism of race.

                1. We are more likely to reduce the problem of lower-class males getting harassed and jailed for petty infringements if we step back and look at what we do to police, rather than looking at the issue through the prism of race.

                  I think that’s very well said.

                2. ^ This is basically 100% my opinion.

                  I think poor people are a) more likely to not give a shit about the law and b) more likely to get picked on by cops because they are easier targets. Since poverty is highly concentrated by race in this country, it’s impossible to tell the difference between class and culture causing disparities and racial discrimination causing disparities.

                  Given the current state of the US, I think class and culture is more likely since people still openly discriminate based on that but are much more hesitant to discriminate based on race.

      2. someone who isn’t Irish?

      3. Is it Irish?

        1. Hey now! Some of his best friends are black!

          1. So you are a douche after all.

    2. Hugh, we already know what race all criminals are. Irish.

      1. Shanty Irish, but not the lace curtain Irish, right?

        1. I have no idea what those words mean other than “criminals”.

          1. Some criminals have refined tastes, Episiarch. Others are vulgar.

            1. Which would you say you are? Turks are #2 after the Micks, you know!

              1. I’m 1/8th Irish and 1/2 Turk, Episiarch…..

                My tastes, like my tortures, are primarily highly refined ones, although I’m not above enjoying the baser things in life.

      2. “Hugh, we already know what race all criminals are. Irish.”

        False, we’re drunks. The only crimes we commit more of are therefore those related to booze. You won’t see an Irishman committing financial crime when we could be beating our wives or setting fire to the local nunnery.

        1. At least you’re not the fucking Italians. You people have that going for you.

          1. My fellow greasy wops may be criminals, but at least we have good food….

  4. I hate Huckabee so much. Please don’t let him go back on Fox, but drift off into the ether with Sarah Palin and the other never weres.

    1. into the ether with Sarah Palin

      So… you’re saying you look forward to the Huckster appearing onstage with the Trumpster in a week, possibly announcing his cabinet position?

      1. GAH!!!! too

  5. Whose hotel room did Huckaboo wake up in this morning? Hillary? Carly? Santorum?

    1. *barf*

      1. Parts of him should have been in all three.

        1. That would explain why he had to have the fingers on his left hand treated for bite wounds, even though he never got near any of their mouths.

          1. He tried to bite off his own fingers?

    2. Trump’s. The endorsement should be coming any minute now.

  6. “The Rich” is code for……

    1. Hitler?

  7. “The MAR expresses a desire for more police power. He feels that granting the police a heavier hand will help control crime, i.e., [George] Wallace’s Law and Order program. However, MARs are adamant about keeping many social reforms, often wrought by the left, such as medicare, aid to education and social security.”

    The MARs remind me of the early Tea Party people–who opposed TARP and spending because they wanted to save Social Security and Medicare.

    1. I don’t think those were early TPers. The MARs started running to the TP once they sensed that they could use it to vent their ‘anger’.

    2. More police power plus more social spending… sounds like rabid believe in statism.

      I demand the chance to Respect someone’s Authoritah!

  8. I’ve noted before that The Libertarian Moment (TM) is indeed happening at the state level but not so much at the federal. I think keeping these MARs assholes disengaged is key to why. More participation ie more people engaging is not better. These MARs-tards should feel alienated and disenfranchised. They are the stupid, authoritarian center that comprises so many people and is responsible for much of America’s problems.

    1. Yes. All this talk of “legitimate grievances” on the part of these MARs is part of the problem. Their grievances are not legitimate; they are a bunch of mooching slavers.

      1. But nicole, they live squarely in the Overton Window. If anyone is the problem, it’s us for not laying down in front of them.

        1. True.

        2. It turns out that “live and let live” is a shockingly hard concept for most people to get.

      2. Probably not relevant to an anarchist, but libertarians should still try and figure out how many of their underlying needs could be addressed within their framework. Like the Gracchi brothers, I don’t see any good coming out of this group but I see even less good in completely ignoring them and hoping that a significant voting bloc goes away on its own.

        1. I don’t want to ignore them. I want to tell them they’re bad people who should be ashamed of themselves.

          1. That’s fine. I just don’t think it’ll lead to any better of results than when Cato the Younger took roughly the same approach during the fall of the Roman Republic.

            1. These people have been indulged for decades and that’s a large part of why we’re where we are. Fuck this rabble and anyone who would waste time with them.

        2. What Nikki said. Those who can’t be reasoned with should be ridiculed into silence and otherwise marginalized. The MARs should be expelled from political power.

  9. It brings me indescribable pleasure to know that Huckabee’s fat ass will no longer be leaving stains on the body politic at large. Get this man back to whoring himself out on the religious circuit.

  10. my question =

    if you come up with a bullshit arbitrary psychographic profile like “MARs”, you generally have to have a similar term for the ones who fall outside the profile and need to be arbitrarily aggrigated into some equally cute acronym’d alterna-group

    so = what did donald warren call the others? and I hope its something “VENUS”-ish

  11. Warren’s book seems useless for today’s environment. There is absolutely nothing radical in 2016 about wanting more police power, it is the default view of every run-of-the-mill politician. There’s also nothing radical in 2016 about wanting more medicare and more education moneys. That certainly wasn’t the case in 1976.

    The radical view today is the exact opposite. In other words, the MAR’s of 1976 are today’s establishment, and they started becoming so after Reagan was elected.

    1. “There’s also nothing radical in 2016 about wanting more medicare and more education moneys. That certainly wasn’t the case in 1976.”

      Wait what? I though tons of money was getting plowed to Medicare and education back in 1976.

      1. No, it was a fairly Republican stance in 1976 NOT to throw more money at education. Medicare was always an old folks’ issue.

        MAR really was nothing more than rust belt baby boomer politics. Union membership was higher, and people were happy to get their “free shit” from their employer and really didn’t want to pay taxes for others to get that same stuff. Then as their jobs started dwindling, those blue-collar rust belters suddenly started changing their tune – they now were OK with getting their free shit from government since their jobs were moving overseas. Every MAR in 1976 is over 60 and/or dead now.

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