New York City Goes Nuts Over Topless Women in Times Square

But it's not illegal.

Times Square is being invaded by topless women and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is none too happy about it. On Thursday, he announced that he will be working with a task force to "ensure NYC families and visitors can enjoy the area without being harassed."

But these women—wearing nothing but a thin layer of body paint and a thong—are not breaking the law. It is legal for anyone to be topless in the city. In order to celebrate this freedom, GoTopless, an organization that advocates for women's right to go bare-chested in public, will be hosting an NYC Go Topless Pride Parade on Sunday. 

Reason TV's Joshua Swain covered the 2012 GoTopless parade held in Washington, DC . Video was originally published on September 1, 2012.

Comments

[AlmightyJB]

Deez Nuts?

[SQRLSY One]

The little red circles with the red slashes across them... Is this a statement from Reason, saying, "Just say NO to nipples"?

[wareagle]

you beat me to it. I saw as Reason saying no to women's nipples. A bit ironic, isn't it, as if the magazine's staff itself is not quite buying the premise. Or it finds us too sensitive to handle it.

[sarcasmic]

Or maybe they want the video to be safe for work.

[wareagle]

they can't put a disclaimer to that effect? You do that all the time with the Daily Mail stuff. Come on, man.

[SQRLSY One]

You're right, in the name of fairness... "Safe for work", yup...
But it's much more FUN to be unfair! Feel mah POWAH, feel the BURN!!!

[Pompey]

I noticed a few shots with censored male nipple as well.

[commodious spittoon]

I can't tell whether that's terribly sexist or massively transphobic or admirably egalitarian.

[Jerry on the sea]

We cannot talk about L**y, but we can see her in a video.
We can talk about nipples, but we cannot see them in a video.

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

I think it's a statement from YouTube, saying nipples violate it's terms of service.

[Rich]

They may have a point.

[TimothyZ]

You don't get the point on youtube, that's the whole thrust of the issue.

[Rich]

I'll try to keep abreast at least.

[C. Anacreon]

Good thing they nipped it in the bud.

[Thomas O.]

Time to switch to Vimeo or Dailymotion, they're more lenient in that regard.

[John Titor]

Could also be youtube's idiotic policies in action. I note their video isn't listed as age-restricted and I've seen situations where people had videos pulled over computer generated breasts. But once they covered them up in the laziest way possible they were fine apparently.

[John Titor]

Sorry, messed up the link, said computer generated breasts here.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You know what else isn't age-restricted? This video of a woman talking about how much she likes to drink her own pussy juices.

Jus' sharin'

[John Titor]

Hey, I didn't suggest that youtube's policies weren't arbitrary and stupid.

[fish]

What? Neat, rocks, as a mixer....cuz I'm not clicking that link!

[Brendan]

I hate you. Between this and learning a while back that some psycho was making yogurt in her vagina, I wish I could file charges for mind rape.

[Warty]

Ask YouTube for Brazilian waxing. Their nudity policy is weird.

[Brendan]

God Fucking Damn You!

I've watched their playthrough of this mediocre (at best) game like 4 times now. It always starts with me looking for something either in the playthrough and/or a "people also watched" type thing and next thing I know, it's my my background noise for the next X hours.

Also, it's nice to see TBFP show up at Reason.

[Brendan]

Also, they now have their own site without those limitations:
http://superbestfriendsplay.com/

[Austrian Anarchy]

Kind of amazed that this is not an exploitation of women story, yet.

[wareagle]

if there is no difference, why are the women's breasts in the video covered by those 'do not' type signs but men's are not?

[egould310 reppin' LBC]

Because there is a difference.

[wareagle]

curious how Reason's video implies that but its verbiage is silent. Usually, there is not much reluctance in taking sides on things.

[*GILMORE*]

My psychic antennae were picking up Lucy's repressed desire to rip the nipple-tape off the hairy-chested bloke @0:17-20

Also, her trying-not-to-laugh at the guy's bullshit sincerity was wasted effort. She glanced down and giggled just when he was reaching peak-self-righteous.

[JW]

DON'T TALK SHIT ABOUT...eh. never mind.

[AlmightyJB]

A redhead? Guess I'm getting on the desktop and watching. You win. Redheads are my kryptonite.

[Inigo "Chip" DuBois]

This.

2:15 woman: would, would, wood.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I see what you did there.

[sarcasmic]

About that woman at about 2:15 into the video, all I can say is HELL YEAH!

[Scooby]

Concur. Where is the grown up version of the video?

[Atanarjuat]

She posed for still pics when the event happened. I think you can find them on Google by searching the name of the event. She's pretty amazingly well-put together.

[Atanarjuat]

Yeah, just look for Go Topless Day DC, there's a bunch of pictures of her.

[DEG]

Thank you.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Mama!

[Scooby]

That person holding the mic doesn't look like she would be named "Joshua Swain". Are you sure that's her name?

[Notorious UGCC]

Is it L**y?

[Crusty Juggler]

When can I dangle my scrote in Times Square? Equality anyone?

[SQRLSY One]

Nope! Sorry to hurt your feelings... Your scrote is NOT as cute as those boobies!

[Rhywun]

Pics or GTFO.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'm sure there's a dark alley somewhere.

[Capo]

I lived in the city when they first passed that topless law. Everyone thought it was going to be the end of the world...then it was mostly forgotten.

[Austrian Anarchy]

I never viewed DeBlasio as a renaissance man before. This casts him in a whole new bad light.

[Pompey]

Why is DeBlasio such a fucking prude?

[Fist of Etiquette]

MEN DON'T HAVE BREASTS. If men had breasts they would also be forced to cover them up. If women want to expose their breasts they should have babies to feed which is their purpose anyway.

[Inigo "Chip" DuBois]

Some men have moobs. And yes, those should be kept covered for aesthetic, not moral, reasons.

[Sevens]

Their (evolutionary) purpose most likely is to attract men. (Feeding does not require that kind of size.) Following your argument, that'd mean nakedness.

[Crusty Juggler]

A thin layer of body paint is so much more revealing than what is commonly viewed at a public beach, so I am happy America's Mayor has formed a task force to combat this public eyesore. I mean, a child could sort of see a breast!

[LarryA]

And NYC doesn't have any other more "prominent" problems hizzoner need worry about.

[Robbie Clark]

Everyone that said men should have to cover up if women have to is an idiot, but that's how those people think. Everyone should be equally oppressed because equality is their goal, not freedom.

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

RIP America.
Born in liberty
Died of equality

[LarryA]

Everyone should be equally oppressed because equality oppression is their goal, not freedom.

[Crusty Juggler]

If this task force had been formed twenty years ago, would the first joke after the doors had been closed been either a remark about how their wives made them form the task force, or would it be a joke about making the women stand on a scale before they can showcase their toplessness?

[Notorious UGCC]

IIRC, the New York state courts said that if men could show their moobs in public, women should be able to show their funbags.

Alan Dershowitz, the famous lawyer and a notorious prudish, Puritan reactionary who defended the movie *Deep Throat,* objected to this decision based on the legal principal of "OMG are you f___ing *serious*?" If you can't tell the difference between moobs and the real thing, you should have your law-school degree revoked.

[The Late P Brooks]

This is awesome. I flipped over to see what the racetrollers on Melissa Harris Perry's show were up to.
They're blathering about the racial implications of the so called female viagra. Black womynz' sexuality is too special and mysterious for white doctors to comprehend, or something.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Black womynz' sexuality is too special and mysterious for white doctors to comprehend

I've seen movies that suggest otherwise.

[straffinrun]

I usually trim my Brazilian to Foghat, but that'll work.

[Aloysious]

Beautiful. I want that soundtrack to play whenever I walk into a room

[Notorious UGCC]

If they found a way to fit a shoe sale into a pill, women would get hornier than a rhino.

...is what a sexist would say.

[*GILMORE*]

"They're blathering about the racial implications of the so called female viagra. Black womynz' sexuality is too special and mysterious for white doctors to comprehend, or something.

They must first complete a residency with an expert on the topic. And even then, it is likely many subtleties of that fine ass will elude them

[Austrian Anarchy]

Why are they calling it female viagra when it is the real-life miracle of actual, functional Spanish Fly?

[BillEverman]

Well, Spanish Fly was supposed to be pretty much instantaneous. This stuff is more like take a pill for a few months and maybe an extra sexytime will happen. So Spanish Snail, maybe?

[Austrian Anarchy]

But it must be settled science, the FDA approved it.

[The Late P Brooks]

Hmmmm

After being arrested in Arras on Friday night, the suspect was taken early Saturday to the headquarters of the anti-terrorist police outside Paris, Mr. Cazeneuve said, and was being interrogated by the police. French news reports said that he had denied having terrorist aims and merely intended to rob the passengers.

But the arsenal described by the minister suggested otherwise: a Kalashnikov assault rifle, a Luger automatic pistol, nine cartridges and a sharp blade ? a "cutter," the interior minister said, which he used to cut Mr. Spencer.

The violent encounter was over in barely two minutes. But if not for the quick action by the two American servicemen and the suspect's malfunctioning automatic rifle, many lives would have been lost. "It could have been a real carnage," said Chris Norman, a British businessman who also helped restrain the suspect after he had been subdued.

I have no problem with those guys kicking the shit out of him and throwing him out the window at 200mph in either case, but maybe he was just a train robber. Not a very smart one.

[*GILMORE*]

I eagerly await editorials complaining about how American assertiveness is actually a byproduct of racist imperialistic tendency

[Heroic Mulatto]

Await? "Islamophobic Americans Interrupt Expression of Spirituality" was how Le Monde headlined the original story!

[Sevo]

And I'm sure he'll bring suit about the faulty AK.

[Akira]

"Faulty AK?" That's an oxymoron (unless we're talking about one made by Century Arms)

I smell a conspiracy! AKs DON'T malfunction!

/AK owner

[*GILMORE*]

User error

[l0b0t]

The Bulgarian and Romanian manufactured examples are often a bit hit or miss, no? My knowledge is purely anecdotal via family (so it could very well be an old wive's tale) but I was always told to seek out the GDR built versions.

[R C Dean]

There's no such thing as idiot-proof. Not even an AK.

[DEG]

Yes. Someone always builds a better idiot.

[Rich]

The suspect was yelling at the two to give him back his gun [so] Skarlatos ..."started muzzle-thumping him in the head with it."

Careful what you ask for.

[LarryA]

But if not for the quick action by the two American servicemen...

Serious error in victim selection.

[Rich]

A topless woman enters a Catholic church and is encountered by a priest.

"Oh, my child, you can't enter the House of God like *that*."

"But, Father, I have a divine right!"

"And your left isn't bad, either; but still you must cover your head."

[The Late P Brooks]

Mr. Skarlatos began beating him with his own rifle. He said he "started muzzle-thumping him in the head with it." Other passengers joined in, and Mr. Stone held him in a chokehold until he lost consciousness, Mr. Skarlatos said.

And then he released the chokehold. Are you listening, NYPD?

[*GILMORE*]

Brooks,

Eric Garner did not asphyxiate. He had a heart attack.

This doesn't mean NYC police weren't culpable or negligent. But people have spread a misconception that he was "choked to death" when that isn't actually what happened.

[Notorious UGCC]

Too bad that his heart attack coincided with an attack by police, leading gullible people to conclude the cops had something to do with his death.

[Rich]

"It wasn't the *fall* that killed him ...."

[straffinrun]

It was Eve.

[Notorious UGCC]

It wasn't the bullets that killed him, it was the loss of blood he had afterward.

[Notorious UGCC]

The guillotine didn't kill him, it was the loss of oxygen to his brain.

[Rich]

It's causes all the way down!

[C. Anacreon]

For the want of a nail, the battle was lost.

[*GILMORE*]

was the caveat not clear enough?

People are free to rail at cops over every element of garner's death.

its just that you can't change facts in the process.

[R C Dean]

Welp, I guess Kelly Thomas wasn't beaten to death, either.

Justice WAS served in his case, after all. What a relief.

[SIV]

Eric Garner may not have been "choked" to death but the autopsy lists "neck compression" first in the causes/contributing factors of death. I believe applying a "choke hold" that restricts blood flow rather than air is technically known as "strangling".

[Suthenboy]

Ever been choked out?

As the CO2 levels in your blood escalate your heart begins to labor in an effort to flush it out through your lungs. You can plainly feel your heart going into distress. Heart failure is definitely one of the ways that choking can kill you.

[*GILMORE*]

He wasn't "choked out"

He was conscious and breathing and talking when they got him on the ground and cuffed him

Everybody's trying to play lawyer here and pretend that i'm disputing policy culpability for the guy's death.

I did not say the cops were somehow innocent from responsibility. I said he had a heart attack. he wasn't "Choked to death".

[*GILMORE*]

"police"

[R C Dean]

Well, if the heart attack was induced by being choked (and it was), I'm plenty comfortable saying he was choked to death. By the police. For no reason.

[*GILMORE*]

Your personal comfort with misrepresenting facts because its more consistent with the popular narrative isn't my concern.

The heart attack was actually more-likely "induced" by how they put him face down the sidewalk *after* they stopped the choke. Not that that makes any actual difference in the responsibility of the police, just that you are arbitrarily assigning a sine qua non to an act that isn't in fact what killed him.

fuck it, i give up. Forgive me for having scruples about details.

[SIV]

It's those damn PBA talking points you're spouting. A "choke hold" or choke does not solely or necessarily restrict air. Autopsy lists "neck compression" first as a cause of death.

[R C Dean]

Your personal comfort with misrepresenting facts

The facts are that he died of a heart attack induced by being choked.

How is that not, he died of being choked?

Pedantry can be obscuring, you know. And to whinge on about the distinction-without-a-difference between "died of a heart attack caused by being choked" and "died of being choked" is obscurantism.

[R C Dean]

I mean, after all, if he just died of a heart attack and it wasn't caused by what the police did (and the only connection we have is the chokehold), then I guess the cops didn't kill him after all. Just a random heart attack.

The fact that there is a delay between the proximate cause of death (being choked, being beaten to a pulp) and the actual death (a heart attack a few minutes later, dying in the hospital a few days later) is irrelevant.

My point remains that if Garner wasn't killed by the chokehold, then I don't see how you can say Thomas was killed by the beating. Which was the cop's argument in the Thomas case.

[*GILMORE*]

RC = "If he just died of a heart attack and it wasn't caused by what the police did "
....

"GILMORE*|2015/08/22 11:53:15|#5533636
.....
This doesn't mean NYC police weren't culpable or negligent

*GILMORE*|2015/08/22 12:28:02|#5533674
......
was the caveat not clear enough?

People are free to rail at cops over every element of garner's death.

*GILMORE*|2015/08/22 12:50:27|#5533686
.....
Everybody's trying to play lawyer here and pretend that i'm disputing policy culpability for the guy's death.

I did not say the cops were somehow innocent from responsibility.

*GILMORE*|2015/08/22 13:04:17|#5533699

.....Not that that makes any actual difference in the responsibility of the police..."

Please continue beating your fucking straw man.

The medical examiner attributed the heart attack to compression of garner's chest while he was held prone, face down on the sidewalk, after the "choke" had been released, while he was still conscious & breathing.

You making the "chokehold" the sine qua non of his subsequent death is a claim that isn't based in any fact.

You want to throw your arms in the air and pretend this is somehow excusing police from responsibility, go ahead and stroke your ego, it has nothing to do with me.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

TL;DR

Did you win?

[SIV]

The ref stopped the fight after Gilmore was choked out.

[The Bearded Hobbit]

"When it comes right down to it, all death can be declared 'heart failure'"

-- St. Heinlein (paraphrased)

... Hobbit

[Rich]

Tired of all this crap?

Check out the view on Mars.

[DEG]

That is awesome. Thank you!

[l0b0t]

OT - (because I'm sure y'all are interested) Today is the 20th anniversary of my ETS as a paratrooper. On my way home, those many years ago, I stopped at the airport duty-free store and picked up a couple bottles of 16 year old Lagavulin. I'm about to open the first one now. Mmmm... 36 year old single malt Scotch whisky. I'm about to get all bleery and I love all y'all. That is all.

[R C Dean]

16 year old Lagavulin is divine.

But, it only really ages when it is in the barrel. What you have isn't 36 year old Lagavulin, its 16 year old Lagavulin that you bought 20 years ago.

And it is divine.

[l0b0t]

True dat, but it makes feel like a big shot. Also, grilling skirt steak and stumbling down to the beach later. Wifey is watching the kids and has given me carte blanche to be a drunkypants today.

[R C Dean]

Holy crap, am I envious.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Have a good day. I assure you that it's better than what I'm doing.

[l0b0t]

Thanks. Though, to be fair, I think it's earned. I spent a good 8 hours on my hands and knees with a jug of ammonia and a scrubby, stripping the wax off the floors yesterday. Also, HOLY MACKEREL, this Scotch is smooth and delicious. I've almost become a teetotaler over the past 10 years and I'm on my 2nd neat w/ icewater back; I can feel it already.

[l0b0t]

I needz moar orphanz!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You just gave me flashbacks.

I used Mop and Glow. ONCE. It left this disgusting wax film on the hardwood, and it took me hours to get it off. It took a mixture of ammonia, lysol, and hot water to finally get it loose. I was SO pissed. They have a 1-800 number you call to get instructions on how to get it off.

[l0b0t]

In the Army, we had to strip and wax the barracks every week. It became something I actually enjoyed but we used proper paste wax and had an electric buffer. We used Comet to strip and once while home on leave I though I would be all nice and do mom's kitchen floor. 19yo l0b0t did not know that no-wax floors should not ever under any circumstances be stripped with abrasive cleanser. Mom was not happy.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yeah, that's a very expensive mistake.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It turns out that there's an easier way to strip the cleaners.

[DEG]

Enjoy your day!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Have fun!

[Akira]

I have two possible theories about who started this "free the nipple" movement:

A) A rabid feminist who just wants more shit to complain about, so she aims to make topless women the norm so that she can whine about "the male gaze" a few years into the future.

B) A man who just wants to see some titties.

[The Late P Brooks]

Forgive me for having scruples about details.

You're forgiven.
My "point" was more in the direction of, "When the subject has been subdued, you should cease choking him." Not that Garner died of asphyxiation.
The cause of Garner's death was heart failure, brought on by stress and panic.

[Notorious UGCC]

What was he panicking about? Ah, yes, his last words included the phrase "I can't breathe."

Maybe that can't-breathe thing contributed to the "stress and panic."

[SIV]

RTFAutopsy. It clearly states the cause of death as neck compression, chest compression, and being held in a prone position. The PBA pods have replaced your real bodies.

[The Late P Brooks]

Of course there's always the argument that choking people for no goddam good reason should be punished severely.
ESPECIALLY if you are doing so under color of law.

[Paul.]

I fully support a woman's right to go topless in public.

[RBS]

All women?

[AlmightyJB]

If it's the price we have to pay

[Heroic Mulatto]

I urge you to think about this gentlemen.

More time topless is public means less time wearing a bra. Less time wearing a bra means the eventual development of National Geographic titties.

[*GILMORE*]

I second the motion... Must we throw hundreds of years of civilization down the toilet ... must we eschew the benefits that modern technology provides, for the sake of mere nominal "equality"?

#KeepTittiesPerky

[OneOut]

The law should clearly state that no titties outside the ages of 18 and 28 should ever be shown in public and that all titties between the ages of 18 and 28 MUST be shown in pulic unless they are my daughter's titties which I do not have so that is not my problem and I wish I had a taste of that guys 16 yo scotch that he bought 20 years ago because I'm about done with this two week old rum that I bought about 30 minutes ago.

[OneOut]

The law should clearly state that no titties outside the ages of 18 and 28 should ever be shown in public and that all titties between the ages of 18 and 28 MUST be shown in pulic unless they are my daughter's titties which I do not have so that is not my problem and I wish I had a taste of that guys 16 yo scotch that he bought 20 years ago because I'm about done with this two week old rum that I bought about 30 minutes ago.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It takes a long time to get to national geographic status.

[*GILMORE*]

Are you insane, man?! Have you not seen how far we've progressed since the 1970s??

[lap83]

It's cute how you guys think every woman will instantly want to go topless the second you allow it.

[RBS]

That was sort of what I was getting at. The one's most likely to do it are the one's you don't really want to see.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Well sure, the women who have something to hide won't.

And for the record, I already allow it.

[Paul.]

lap83 is on to something...

The law should mandate women go topless in public!

[lap83]

Get used to seeing lots of errand boys, esp. when it's cold

[Atanarjuat]

Bras actually cause sagging. Kind of like how trees grown in windy areas are sturdier.

[*GILMORE*]

""Atanarjuat|2015/08/22 17:27:56|#5533941

Bras actually cause sagging"

I... I..... don't know what to think.

I think this is going to have to be scientifically tested by having control groups of bra-wearing and non-bra wearing japanese women dancing otherwise-completely nude in my private science-gymnasium over a period of at least 10 years or so. Of course I will need a federal grant.

[OneOut]

And an assistant. Definately an assistant. Something along an admin assistant type of helper for the grant proposal..

I'm remarkabley available and can type 22 words per minute as long as they aren't really big ones.

[OneOut]

And an assistant. Definately an assistant. Something along an admin assistant type of helper for the grant proposal..

I'm remarkabley available and can type 22 words per minute as long as they aren't really big ones.

[OneOut]

And an assistant. Definately an assistant. Something along an admin assistant type of helper for the grant proposal..

I'm remarkabley available and can type 22 words per minute as long as they aren't really big ones.

[Notorious UGCC]

Topless woman in headless bar

[Rhywun]

OT: Well, if it doesn't work out here for Trump he could always give it another go in Macedonia. Or Serbia, or Hungary, or Germany, or....

Few, if any, of the migrants want to remain in Greece, which is in the grip of a financial crisis. Most head straight to the country's northern border with Macedonia, where they cram onto trains and head north through Serbia and Hungary on their way to more prosperous EU countries such as Germany, the Netherlands or Sweden.

[The Late P Brooks]

Paging Sugarfree

What I hated, and dreaded the most as I continued to read through the list, was the continued and pervasive sexism - even in seemingly progressive books for their time. I devoured science fiction and fantasy when I was younger - the idea that I was also devouring patriarchal and sexist ideas made me deeply uncomfortable. The fact that these were all supposed to be the best of the genre, was even more shocking.

Oh, the humanity misogyny!

[Rhywun]

"one of the supporting female protagonists, Marygay, only gets made an executive officer while Joe, the male protagonist becomes a major"

OMG!!!1!

In anger, after I read the first 10 books or so

Hahahah I'm sure that's how this person lives their whole life.

Those are actually the only 2 sentences I read, picked at random.

[Agammamon]

Marygay, only gets made an executive officer while Joe, the male protagonist becomes a major.

She didn't read any of these books. Or she'd know that 'XO' is a position *senior* to Major and I'm pretty sure she was the male protagonist's superior officer for at least part of the story.

[Episiarch]

Outrage fetishists have to constantly find new things to be outraged about. It's the ultimate thing that will end up destroying them, since they *will* run out or will have to actually cannibalize their own life in order to continue. Either way, they lose.

As annoying as they are, they're like monks who light themselves on fire to make a point that no one cares about. They will immolate themselves eventually, and then they will have gone away. Just be patient. Self-destructive people are a problem that solves itself.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What about the problem that I have to listen to them?

[Episiarch]

Get some noise-canceling headphones. I hear Richard Sherman does commercials for a good brand.

[R C Dean]

Just looking at the top 20 (which I have read most of)

Several aren't "genre" science fiction, but more mainstream/literary books (Frankenstein, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World). Aside from the fact that these reflect mainstream, not sci-fi, sensibilities, they go way back, before anyone was shoehorning LGBT characters into their books

You want to tell me that the Wheel of Time doesn't have prominent female characters? Or the Game of Thrones books? Or Stranger in a Strange Land? Even in Name of the Wind, there are a couple-three significant female characters.

She's horrified that books that date back 20, 30, 50 years don't reflect the fashionable sensibilities of August, 2015. These people need be heavily medicated.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

Those cherries didn't look as good.

[Paul.]

I was wondering about that without clicking on the link. Surely the 100 best sci-fi novels of all time go back to fucking Jules Verne... does this just-out-of-college twitter-user realize that social mores were slightly different than they were in 2015?

[Circle (formerly Square)]

She doesn't seem to realize they were different in the middle ages. . .

What is it, do you suppose, that she feels we are progressing *from*?

[Rich]

I devoured science fiction and fantasy when I was younger - the idea that I was also devouring patriarchal and sexist ideas made me deeply uncomfortable.

"'Devour'. You keep using that word ...."

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I've been eating too much beef lately (including leftovers for breakfast this morning).

My next chicken experiment will be:
Mexican Street Chicken

It looks very delicious, but also very easy to screw up....

[RBS]

Sounds vaguely sexual.

[SIV]

SunnyD? I'd sooner use Orange Fanta or Top Sabores. Orange juice is what you want.
And a 5lb chicken? That's nearly a stewing hen. Get some 2.5-3lb broilers.

You're in SoCal. Don't they make and sell pollo asado just about everywhere?

[The Late P Brooks]

More-
Frankly, from my vantage in 2015, it was just plain weird to read books where there were hardly any women, no people of colour, no LGBT people. It seemed wholly unbelievable. I know what you could say: it's science fiction and fantasy, believability isn't one of the main criteria for such books. But it is relatively absurd that in the future people could discover faster-than-light travel, build massive empires and create artificial intelligences but somehow not crack gender equality or the space-faring glass ceiling.

Boo
fucking
hoo.
And why didn't Billy the Kid ride a Harley?

[Rhywun]

This is of course a load of crap because I have read plenty of sci-fi from the 60s to the 80s that are loaded with "people of colour" and women and yes even gays. Established authors too, who are probably on this list. I am beginning to suspect that this person didn't actually read these books.

[John Titor]

She's complaining about a lack of women on a list that seriously places The Handmaid's Tale in the top 25 scifi/fantasy books. Not to be taken serious (though I'm sure Atwood is quite upset that people still call her work science fiction).

[*GILMORE*]

Sci fi was most likely WAY AHEAD of the political correctness curve for many decades.

meaning, well before TV / Movies were including these "marginalized" classes in the narratives

But that's not the point - the point is that these modern "critics" have only one mode of complaint, and it must be endlessly reiterated, because being outraged and aghast makes them righteous and good.

Didn't someone point out the crazy feminist sci-fi writer from the 1980s.... who did a series of novels about a Matriarchal-alternate universe... Oh, right

Yeah, why isn't there more of that stuff?! Its just so awesome and plausible.

[l0b0t]

Starstruck FTW!!!

[John Titor]

It's amazing because the New Left utterly infested pulp scifi and there's plenty of work dealing with what she wants. The problem is that Sturgeon's Law exists, a lot of it is terrible and hasn't aged well. The stuff that has ended up on 'best 100' lists tend to be more grounded and accessible to more people.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

And no mention of John Varley? Did his books have any *male* characters?

[Episiarch]

In Steel Beach the main character starts out as male and then switches to female. Good book, by the way. Very good.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

Hadn't read that one - I'll put it on my list. Only read the Titan-Wizard-Demon series.

I think you could argue that he's sexist in the Tom Robbins "I *love* women! I mean I *love* love women. Especially naked ones!" way, but I don't think you can write an article about the absence of significant women in science fiction and ignore Cirocco Jones and "Gaia."

Not to mention those hermaphroditic centaurs . . .

[Circle (formerly Square)]

"I am beginning to suspect that this person didn't actually read these books."

I agree. This statement struck me:

"Thomas Covenant, the main character, actually rapes a young woman and is astonishingly unrepentant for most of the book"

Covenant is unrepentant. He spends 3 full 500 page novels tormenting himself about what a shithead he is and rationalizing by refusing to believe that the world his is in is real. I don't think she actually read past the rape.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

And then: "He's an absolutely horrible character that we're supposed to like "

Yes he's a horrible character. That's what we call an "anti-hero." You are not supposed to like him. At best you feel sorry for him, but that's always tempered by vague disgust for him.

I thought they taught that sort of thing in writer-school.

[Sevens]

"He's an absolutely horrible character that we're supposed to like"

He's a horrible character. And she likes him. That's wrong. And it can't be her fault. So something, someone wronged her, made her like him -- she is supposed to like him.

[Rhywun]

He spends 3 full 500 page novels tormenting himself about what a shithead he is

I could only take the first 100 pages or so of that.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

Somehow I made it through all three books of the first series, which is unusual for me because I'm very ADD. But I was 14 and very into Joy Division at the time, so I think the moroseness appealed to my hormonal aesthetic.

Even then I spent most of time just wanting to step into the book and smack him around a little bit.

[RBS]

"believability isn't one of the main criteria for such books."

Maybe for the shitty books she read but a lot of the greats would disagree.

[Notorious UGCC]

women - the princess in *Princess of Mars*

people of colour - Uhura, and green alien women

LGBT people - C3PO

[Circle (formerly Square)]

LGBT people.

What about Frodo and Sam? Are they chopped liver?

[Notorious UGCC]

Sam wasn't gay, he was a batman. Look it up.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki.....Commentary

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Sam wasn't gay, he was a batman. Look it up.

Did he also have a batbed?

[Circle (formerly Square)]

"From the other side of it, fantasy novels all seemed to be black mirror distortions of the medieval period"

Ya think?

Yet she wants a medieval period in which an unattached woman wandering the world "doesn't have to worry about being attacked or raped, but rather not to give up more of her already broken cover."

In other words, this "feminist" is arguing that when we portray medieval society, we should pointedly ignore the "rape culture" aspects of the period. We should pretend that medieval society was egalitarian, and that women could be knights, too, and minorities could be lords and live in castles too. Because denying histories of oppression is what left wing activism is all about.

Or something.

[Rich]

But it is relatively absurd that in the future people could discover faster-than-light travel, build massive empires and create artificial intelligences but somehow not crack gender equality or the space-faring glass ceiling.

"Why are there no [insert concern type] people in that science fiction novel?"

"Because it takes place *in the future*."

[Paul.]

Uhm, it was science fiction, not social fiction.

[Paul.]

*cracks open random science fiction book*

Oh look, this one has an emperor! Don't these troglodytes realize that Progressive Democracy is the way forward?

[The Late P Brooks]

Mexican Street Chicken

It looks very delicious, but also very easy to screw up....

Don't leave it in the street too long, or it will absorb the flavor of the tarmac.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

That's the secret ingredient.

[__Warren__]

It's the macadam-ia dust they get covered in.

[__Warren__]

Tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits, tits tits tits tits tits tits tits, tits tits tits tits tits tits.

Tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits tits!

[Rhywun]

Their intent is to desexualize them because they hate men. Are you sure that's what you really want?

[__Warren__]

Tits. Tit.

[Paul.]

It doesn't matter. It's what they'll get.

[KerryW]

Somebody's slightly obsessed (note I said only slightly).

[Circle (formerly Square)]

Speaking of public nudity for a cause, I've been meaning to share this, for the purpose of general amusement. File under lefties eating their own:

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/.....ptus-trees

This is a project to remove non-native Eucalyptus trees from the Berkeley-Oakland hills, born partly of concern over fire (big disaster that way 20 years ago), partly over concern for the disruptive impact of the non-native species on the local ecosystem (Eucalyptus trees suck).

However, the goalposts have shifted since the EIR was done, and now naked tree-huggers are demonstrating because it's bad to cut down trees, m'kay?

My favorite part: the naked crowd is outraged because the fixation on removing non-native species and replacing them with native oaks and bays is "xenophobic."

One can only hang one's head and chuckle.

[Paul.]

The picture on that story includes a naked child. I believe a crime has been committed.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

I had the same thought, actually. There's a penis in there, too, that is not blurred. But the fellow is highly unattractive, so that may make it not count as porn . . .

[Circle (formerly Square)]

Wait - does that make *me* culpable too?

*packs bags quickly and searches online for tickets to Ecuador*

[Rhywun]

Oh, West Coast - don't ever stop being you.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They are a HUGE fire hazard. They have more fuel in them than your average car, and when they get hot, they explode.

I remember in 2001 or so, I was running the fire trails above Strawberry Canyon. I heard a shitload of sirens, and when I got to the top, there were about 20 pumpers and tenders trying to put out a fire started by a cigarette. It got to 5 acres in less than 10 minutes.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

"They are a HUGE fire hazard"

Indeed. Colloquially they are sometimes called "gasoline trees." That's why you can smell them from about a mile away. It doesn't help that the bark peels constantly, leaving little matchsticks all up and down the trunk, they shed leaves constantly so that there's a nice little pile of dry kindling stacked around the base, or that they spontaneously shed whole limbs in the course of ordinary weathering. It's like they were engineered to spread catastrophic forest fires.

But these people held a lecture on their superior understanding of the importance of trees in the ecosystem.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

But, on the up side, the vultures love them, so you get the nesting bird issue as well . . .

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The nicest area of the Oakland hills is the part that burned down. Along Charing Cross and surrounding area.

This leads me to believe that it's fucking impossible to get a building permit unless your place is burned to the ground.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

"This leads me to believe that it's fucking impossible to get a building permit unless your place is burned to the ground"

This does seem to be the case in the hills. I have to imagine between the fire issues, the road-access issues, and neighborly aesthetic preferences, permits probably come with "yes you can paint your front door if you widen the road in front of your house, replace your sewer lateral, remove 12 local Eucalyptus and replace them with mature oaks, and build a small park in your neighborhood."

There has actually been a lot of new construction downtown, but the Marxists that populate the city keep trying to shut it down because they want the "below market rate" housing built first.

Such is the economic literacy of Oakland CA.

[C. Anacreon]

Who knew you were so familiar with my neck of the woods?

[Circle (formerly Square)]

You live on that specific hill? You must have gotten a bang out of that earthquake the other day. What are you, like 800 feet from the epicenter?

[C. Anacreon]

No, just on the other side of the hills, near the east end of the Caldecott. But we definitely felt the earthquake, it really packed a wallop. More like a sonic boom than a trembling type.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

I'm in the El Sob, just across the lake from you (San Pablo). We had the same thing - big jolt, over quick. I probably commute right past your house.

[Rhywun]

Times Square is being invaded by topless women and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is none too happy about it.

So I happened to be in Times Square after work yesterday for the first time in years and I have to say it is much more pleasant without having to dodge the traffic that used to be there. I saw the surly Elmos and the painted breasts and it looked like everyone was having fun. The horror!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Was this Elmo there?

[*GILMORE*]

I don't know if you were aware, but that thing about Elmo and child-molesting?...

...was based on the real Elmo

"Forty-two year old Clash told Singleton, then 15, 'age is only a number'
....
Kevin Clash is a sexual predator who capitalised on his 'unique position' as a child's entertainer to target vulnerable victims, one of his accusers has claimed.

This is the latest allegation made against the former Sesame Street puppeteer and voice of Elmo by 24-year-old Cecil Singleton...He said that in his opinion: 'If you can have a relationship with a 15-year-old then you can have one with a 13-year-old...there's a very subtle difference'. Mr Singleton told how he had been 'courted' by Clash as a 15-year-old minor. At the time Clash was 42, though initially told Mr Singelton that he was 36. The pair met over a gay chat line and Clash invited Mr Singleton to dinner round the corner from his Manhattan apartment that same night."

[The Late P Brooks]

it looked like everyone was having fun.

Check your privilege.

[The Late P Brooks]

Butthurt

Meteorologists and knowledgeable science bloggers have wasted no time in pouncing on the Almanac's predictions.

"[Here's] your annual reminder that using the Farmers Almanac for a seasonal meteorological outlook is about as good as going to a psychic," tweeted Matt Lanza, a meteorologist based in Houston.

"[It's a] forecast that has as much accuracy as a Magic 8 ball," wrote Connecticut broadcast meteorologist Ryan Hanrahan on his Facebook page.

[I]t's basically the print version of a psychic reading on a 1-900 number," wrote Dennis Mersereau, who pens Gawker's weather vertical, The Vane. "The Old Farmer's Almanac is to meteorology what astrology is to astronomy."

Don't listen to those guys! Listen to us.
Meteorologists are not *necessarily* climate alarmists, but I cannot help finding their outrage amusing.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

"using the Farmers Almanac for a seasonal meteorological outlook is about as good as going to a psychic"

Gawker's weather vertical, however . . .

Matt Lanza is just like Adam Lanza.

[The Late P Brooks]

Surprise!

Police Commissioner William J. Bratton also does not support what the women do, though there is little his officers can do to stop them.

"It drives me crazy when at Times Square you see the naked people there covered in body paint as an expression of art," Mr. Bratton said in a recent interview with City & State magazine on the subject of questionable street behavior. Yet, he added: "We've researched that top to bottom and we cannot find any law that allows us to interfere with that freedom of expression reflected through art form."

What do you mean, I have to leave those people alone?
They needs a good beating, they does.

[Circle (formerly Square)]

"We've researched that top to bottom and we cannot find any law that allows us to interfere with that freedom of expression reflected through art form"

It's almost as if there's a ban that's been placed on such laws . . .

[Rich]

"We've researched that top to bottom and we cannot find any law that allows us to interfere with that freedom of expression reflected through art form."

"Oh, well."

*** interferes, in "a reasonable mistake of law" ***

[l0b0t]

City And State Magazine? Perhaps it's just the whisky but all I hear is Bootlickers Monthly.

[*GILMORE*]

More or less. Its a "news" source for the hundreds of thousands of people in NY who work for either urban or state level government.

"The print publication is distributed to New York State legislators, county executives, municipalities, the New York Congressional delegation, New York City Council members and others leaders in New York business and government. City & State publishes a twice-monthly print edition in addition to their website, http://www.CityandStateNY.com, and the First Read and Last Read daily emails. Morgan Pehme became City & State's editor-in-chief in 2012.[1]"

I imagine they always feign great shock and surprise when it turns out some top bureaucrat for X agency was horrifyingly corrupt and had been so for decades without anyone saying boo.

In fact, the only think I could find re: Sheldon Silver's indictment was an editorial bemoaning "Shelly's" critics in the (real) press.

[Rhywun]

I'm hearing now that the real push behind this are the suits who moved into all those shiny new skyscrapers that went up around Times Square recently. They don't like the circus taking place outside their front door and especially being forced to walk through it instead of being dropped off by their limos at the front door. Sounds about right to me.

[Agile Cyborg]

I won't post in a thread that hates more than 50 characters...

[SamDod598]

lol, who cares what the idiots of New York think. Get over it.

http://www.Total-Privacy.tk

[10percenter]

They are Raelians? Dammit.