Minimum Wage

L.A.'s Minimum Wage Hike: A Teaching Moment for Those Trying to Help the Underprivileged

It's harder to do good for someone if doing good costs a lot more. And employing someone is often doing good for them.

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A lightly annotated story from today's L.A. Times from the frontline of the politically connected trying to claim special exemptions from L.A's forthcoming minimum wage hike, which highlights not the corruption of the politically connected seeking special favors but the logic that should lead to a universal exemption, i.e., abandoning the prospective minimum wage hike.

It begins with a discussion of the dilemma of Homeboy Diner, in City Hall itself. It is:

part of Homeboy Industries' well-known anti-gang program, opened four years ago to great fanfare. At the time, then-Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa praised the nonprofit group for finding work for onetime gang members and former convicts struggling to reenter society.

Now, the paper reports, the diner has been directly lobbying City Hall for fear that a minimum wage increase that will likely become law this week and go into effect years down the line "will force them to scale back the number of people they employ" by making it more expensive to employ them.

Homeboy has spent months seeking relief from the law, but only for clients in its so-called transitional jobs training program. Without an exemption, the nonprofit will need to eliminate 60 of its 170 trainee positions by the time the wage reaches $15, said Jose Osuna, the group's director of employment services.

Currently, an 18-month possible exemption for "transitional workers" has been "set aside for more study" by the L.A. City Council.

Any and every low wage job might become "transitional" of course and it is especially those whose perceived marginal value to employers might trend low, like ex-cons, who face the greatest dangers from the marginal cuts in demand for workers that minimum wage hikes cause—even if the total unemployment rate or total hours employed don't dive obviously in some economists' study.

Council member Curren Price is opposed to any exemption:

"Philosophically, I do not feel comfortable saying to transitional workers that, because they have faced challenges in their lives, they deserve to be paid less than every other worker in the city," he said in an email statement.

Price's sense of desert is all well and good, but employment is not necessarily a matter of desert—it's a matter of what an employer feels ready and willing to pay. Do transitional workers "deserve" to be in more danger of getting no transitional job at all because of Price and his Council's decision?

Councilman Gil Cedillo "says Homeboy's clients should not be considered as part of the workforce because they are receiving counseling and other services as they begin to find permanent employment.

"They're more akin to students or trainees," he said. "So the people who provide their education and training will have greater capacity [to help people] if we exempt their business model."

All sorts of jobs have elements of learning or training, especially at the entry level. Merely having a job at all can have value down the line worth enormously more than the wage you are currently earning in terms of a proven track record of reliable employability or moving up within a particular organization. (It doesn't always, of course. But Cedillo's logic applies to all sorts of jobs with a less obvious "training/student" aspect.)

The story goes on to point out something Reason wrote about last week:

Labor leaders ignited a firestorm last week, pushing for their own exemption from the minimum wage hike, one that would apply to union workplaces where employees agree to a lower pay scale. [Rusty] Hicks [head of L.A. County Federation of Labor and leader of the Raise the Wage Coalition] suggested he would not have a problem with an exemption for Homeboy if its job programs had collective bargaining, which unionized workplaces do.

"If those program participants had a say in what their wage would be, then that's a different conversation," Hicks said to The Times.

Everyone has a say in what their wage is, by agreeing or not agreeing that the combination of time, place, quality of work, other options, and the wage is something they will agree to take.

Other charity organizations dedicated to helping the homeless or otherwise disadvantaged get back in the workforce are also concerned about a minimum wage hike:

Chrysalis, which focuses heavily on helping the homeless re-enter the workforce, also wants an exemption. So does the L.A. Conservation Corps, which provides transitional jobs for young adults, particularly those who have struggled in school or had run-ins with the law.

Executives with the corps warn the $15 wage could force them to cut the number of transitional job participants by as much as half, from 400 people to 200. On Friday, workers with the corps told council members their employer had helped them reach critical milestones: earning a diploma, getting a driver's license, learning how to raise a family.

Mark Loranger, president and chief executive of Chrysalis, said he ran the numbers on the proposed wage hike and concluded the increases would add $2 million to its costs by 2018. He said he would not be able to raise enough extra money from donors or other sources to cover the entire expense.

Chrysalis helped more than 500 clients, many of whom had been out of the workforce for years, find transitional jobs in 2014. The average age of a trainee is 42, Loranger said.

None of this is to say that these particular agencies or organizations are cutting every penny to the bone in order to serve their supposed clientele with jobs at a higher legal wage. But a higher minimum wage makes every person hiring have to weigh whether a new employee is worth it. It is fabulously unlikely that some people won't make the cut. (And even in terms of weighing some social or civic obligation to keep people's income elevated, why should the weight of it fall on the person or entity that is already hiring/helping by making them pay the difference that government has decided is "deserved" or needed?)

There's no reason to especially privilege self-styled "transitional" charity employment. There's also no reason to use the force of law to cut anyone off from the ability to get work that can transition them to a history of jobs vs. a history of joblessness (in addition to paying them a wage they might need). People who do manage to get/keep jobs in a $15 minimum wage regime will benefit. But it will be at the expense of the less well-positioned, less fortunate, less trained, less experienced, or less educated.

 "We're integrating people into the workforce, and we're making them better human beings," Council member Cedillo said to The L.A. Times. "How do we put a cost on something like that?" 

I don't know. But if you put too high a price on it, you fail to integrate some people into the workforce.

Some light empiricism on the minimum wage.

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  1. “Philosophically, I do not feel comfortable saying to transitional workers that, because they have faced challenges in their lives, they deserve to be paid less than every other worker in the city,” he said in an email statement.

    “So practically I’m going to make it that much more difficult for them to find work.”

    1. ‘…because they have faced challenges in their lives…’

      God complex much?

      Like how could this fine civil servant determine this exactly? Don’t we all ‘face challenged’?

      Shit. Right. White privilege. I’ve never faced challenges.

      1. If you struggle and succeed, it’s because you’re privileged. If a minority struggles and fails, it’s because you’re privileged.

        1. ^^THIS^^

  2. Any interference in market forces by the government is a proven loser.

    1. Or:
      ANY time a third party sticks its nose in a free transaction between two parties, at least one of those parties loses.

  3. They’ve already, via regulatory demands, taxes, etc., raised the price of much of the things the poor want or need, so of course they then have to raise, via mandate, their wages to pay for those things. And of course the ones that lose or don’t get jobs at all can become more wards for the state and/or targets for proposed future programs/spending from the government. It’s quite the racket.

    1. IT’S ALL A RACKET.

      The sweet scam they have going are licenses and permits.

    2. Tulpa or SoCon hunting anti-semite?

      1. A distinction without a difference.

  4. Now, the paper reports, the diner has been directly lobbying City Hall for fear that a minimum wage increase that will likely become law this week and go into effect years down the line “will force them to scale back the number of people they employ” by making it more expensive to employ them.

    I believe the Millennial Logic(tm) is that they’ll cut their full time staff to part time, cutting benefits, but hire more to cover the hours. Therefore the minimum wage is a boon to employment.

    1. Math is hard, Paul.

      1. Oops, meant to reply to the comment below.

    2. The logic used in the Seattle minimum wage is that it will actually increase employment because these workers will have all of this new disposable income (multiplier!!!). Under this logic, it would seem that you’d want to implement this wage increase immediately. When proponents were asked why should small businesses and union shops get exemptions/lengthy phase in periods, they got quiet and the crickets got real loud.

      1. Not one person had explained to me why a phase-in is necessary. I haven’t heard a single, detailed explanation as to why the minimum wage is being phased in over a number of years.

        Progressives Communists Self-declared Socialists like Kashama Sawant have specifically stated that the business community– all employers– have the money, they’re just self-interested in keeping wages down. The money is there, the profits are there, the revenue is there, they’re just not paying.

        So I ask again, why the phase-in? Cut the new checks during the next pay period and we’re done here.

        1. And if a higher W/M is helpful to employers and employees, why stop at $15/hr?

          1. Exactly. Make the minimum wage $1000/hr, then all full time employees will be multi-millionaires, and therefore evil, and subject to the top tax bracket of, say, 90% for those rich fatcats. Win-win, right?

        2. My guess would be the time needed to print all the extra forms, update the rule books, promulgate the web pages and hire another raft of goons to monitor it all. I’ve had to let all my employees go through attrition, as I can no longer afford the compliance costs of having them.

          I fully support your proposal. Pull the rug out and be done with it.

        3. “So it’s unsurprising to me and, I’m sure, to most of this blog’s readership that L.A.’s massive minimum-wage hike is phased in over five years. This phasing-in not only mutes and, hence, helps to hide, the ill-effects of the minimum wage; more significantly, this phasing-in is solid evidence that minimum-wage hikes are in fact not scientific responses by government to the prevalence of employer monopsony power.”

          http://cafehayek.com/2015/05/w…..today.html

          1. Well sure, that why WE know it’s being phased in. I want to know why they say they’re phasing it in.

        4. The actual explanation is they want to give the Federal Reserve time to catch up.

  5. “Philosophically, I do not feel comfortable saying to transitional workers that, because they have faced challenges in their lives, they deserve to be paid less than every other worker in the city,”

    Typical L.A. logic. He’d rather workers get $15 an hour for zero hours paid, vs $10 an hour for 40 hours paid. Do I have this right?

    1. I think that’s a Common Core math question.

      1. You’ve got to add to subtract!

  6. [Rusty] Hicks [head of L.A. County Federation of Labor and leader of the Raise the Wage Coalition] suggested he would not have a problem with an exemption for Homeboy if its job programs had collective bargaining, which unionized workplaces do.

    “If those program participants had a say in what their wage would be, then that’s a different conversation,” Hicks said to The Times.

    Fascinating, Jim…

    So the Union selling point has literally become: Collectivise, and you too can negotiate a lower wage!

    1. Actually, this makes sense given the union’s philosophy. The idea is that minimum wages are necessary ‘floors’ for workers with low ‘bargaining power.’ The union’s view is collective bargaining increases the latter, thus a floor is not as necessary. Or something.

      1. It seems to me that unions are about taking money from workers and politically ‘investing’ it — it explains why even though they screw the employers AND employees they STILL manage to have whole professions unionized (withholding the dues from the wages the employer cuts).

        I, for one, would love to see `em choke.

    2. That’s a nice way to try and force more people to join your obsolete and increasingly unwanted organizations.

  7. Some animals are more equal than others.

  8. The good news? I see a LOT of opportunities for lobbying and money changing hands between the council and those industries or business models eager to get an exemption. Who says this isn’t stimulating the economy?

  9. This is delicious. It’s also hugely transparent in the sense that even some of the slower-witted voters can see what’s going on. They’ve painted themselves into a corner and now have to deal with the consequences. They cannot blame this on anyone but themselves.

    1. Don’t underestimate. Krugman or someone will be writing soon about how this is the fault of the nefarious 1%, or worse, corporations.

      1. “If aliens blew up Los Angeles, there’d be jobs for everyone!”

        – Krugman

        1. Mars Attacks!

          1. Plenty of jobs for people who can sing like Slim Whitman.

        2. Kruggymandias

    2. You’re forgetting Tea Party activists in Congress who are essentially terrorists and are causing the five year implementation, and George W Bush. And, maybe Dick Cheney.

  10. how about a wage cap for government employees since everyone’s income is everyone else’s business? at some point you’ve taken enough from the taxpayers.

    1. at some point you’ve taken enough from the taxpayers.

      It sounds reasonable to me, but this is how the statists will view it.

  11. “We’re integrating people into the workforce, and we’re making them better human beings,” Council member Cedillo said to The L.A. Times. “How do we put a cost on something like that?”

    Of course not. Because, you know, you don’t have to worry about the real costs dipshit.

    It’s so nice to live in a world where you can conveniently ignore costs you don’t have to pay because enlightened and for the children.

    1. Zenit St. Petersburg team ‘photo:

      http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32950796

      1. That’s classic.

        Russians have, how do we say, personality? Watching the Giro the owner of Tinkoff-Saxo was quite the character.

      2. Those sports-frat white males need to learn to check their privilege.

      3. To get into the mood, read My Official Wife by Richard Savage. It’s public domain, available online. It’s a great read if you’d like a combination of Wash. Irving & P.G. Wodehouse.

  12. In other economic illiteracy news: Venezuela Bans Evictions, Delinquencies Soar 99%, Impossible to Get New Lease

    Venezuela made numerous mistakes over the years, with each mistake reduced the supply of rental units.

    A rent freeze in 2003, led to a 25% decline of rental units.
    An expropriation ordinance in 2006 caused an extra drop of 51% of rental units.
    Rental restrictions applied between 2007 and 2008 caused a similar contraction.
    The 2011 law led to the virtual disappearance of housing for rent.

    A quick check shows the metropolitan region of Caracas has an estimated population of 5,243,301. Those 5+ million people can choose between a grand total of five rental listings.

    1. Someone today had the fuck nerve to say that communism wasn’t coming back into fashion.

      1. was it Sean Penn?

        1. Someone from… Canada… *shudder*

          1. /tugs shoulder.

            Ahem.

            1. Not everything in Canada is bad. I love Whistler! Best skiing on the west coast!

              1. Keep digging your hole, Paul.

                The appropriate response should have been ‘not everything in Canada is bad. I love…RUFUS!’

                Enjoy your rotting infrastructure and manspreading plague, Yank.

                1. Manspreading is a plague? I thought it was part of the cure?

                  1. According to SJW’s it is.

                    I saw it on TV.

                    Or Twitter.

                    I forget.

                2. I love Rufus J. Firefly’s always-witty posts, AND the Toronto Blue Jays’ wacky moving-dome, space needle-hugging ballpark where you can get hot poutine and a cold beer from the same vendor. And Jonathan Toews!

                  There’s three things to love about Canada.

                  1. FUCK THE BLUE JAYS!

                    So find something else to cheer for.

                    Might I recommend the Saskatchewan Roughriders or…Sam Steele?

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Steele

                    BUT NOT THE BLUE JAYS.

                3. I love RUFUS only when Rufus chokes on a firefly.

          2. Saw a graphic today that indicated that the Canadian minimum wage is higher than the US. Any canucks here that can fill us in?

            1. Depends on province:

              http://srv116.services.gc.ca/d…..=eng&dec=5

              When all else is fails and you have a sudden itch to know more about Canada just go to Stats Canada.

              1. Thanks.

              2. That site did nothing to answer my question.

                Who would win in a fist fight, Bobby Orr or Stu Hart?

                1. Bobby Orr was no pugilist. More ethereal for how he manipulated the ice with his blades.

                  Bobby is pure legend.

              3. FYI Alberta is about to have a $15 minimum wage. For real. We are going balls-to-the-wall retard.

      2. That’s because there is no such thing as “far left.” Only “far right.” Just ask the Justice Dept:

        Justice Department Studying ‘Far-Right’ Social Media Use

        http://freebeacon.com/issues/j…..media-use/

        1. Well, at this point we have a uniparty, one that is split into two groups “for display purposes” where one group talks up Socalism across the Nation, the other about Workers (in the form of corporations and taxes)… that is the Party.

      3. And he was totally right, as usual. Venezuela is going to implode, and with it goes the latest iteration of ‘this time it will work’.

        1. But not the last.

    2. What’s the problem? Ban delinquencies.

      Solved.

      1. Is there nothing that can’t be solved with a ban?

        1. Reason could ban…us?

    3. “A quick check shows the metropolitan region of Caracas has an estimated population of 5,243,301. Those 5+ million people can choose between a grand total of five rental listings.”

      The SF city government has a new standard to meet!

      1. Hi,

        I just checked on my zillow app, which is surely not exhaustive, and found 461 rentals in sf and 203 more if you wanted to live in the east bay. That’s bad? I guess one of my main purposes around here is to remind you right-wingers that there isn’t a post-apocalyptic nightmare awaiting you outside– you know, Obama and all notwithstanding.

        1. 461 rentals in the entire city of SF? According to your site there’s just under 2,000 rentals in LA.

          And dude, check out the prices.

        2. Cool story bro.

          What the hell does that have to do with Caracas?

        3. I would call you a retard, but it seems redundant when you call yourself a socialist.

          My math indicates that you found 663 rentals for a metro area of almost a million people.

          Does that seem like a healthy market to you? “That’s bad?” you ask? Yes, dumbass, that is bad. It means that supply is constrained, rents will be extremely high, and it will be difficult to find a place to rent.

          But, I do appreciate you demonstrating that the point comparing SF California “the land of fruits and nuts” to Caracas is valid. I also appreciate you demonstrating yet again that it is impossible to reform a socialist by any method other than burial.

          1. There’s 150 using the same metric in San Antonio– a state run by people who take Ludwig Von mises seriously.

            To be sure, it’s expensive to live in a place where people want to live.

            1. [citation needed]

            2. The population of Texas has grown at about twice the rate of the US since at least 2000. California’s growth rate is roughly around the national rate. So, it would appear that a fair number of people want to live there.

        4. Oh socialist, socialist, socialist. Your only purpose around here is to remind the rest of us that socialists are pig-ignorant savages.

  13. These idiots have had more teaching moments than you can shake a lesson plan at.

    What they need is learning moments.

    1. They need Mises’ Human Action. Upside the head. Repeatedly.

      1. Indeed. While Capitalism and Freedom or The Law might be easier for the layman to understand, they have insufficient inertial mass for that kind of booklearnin’.

      2. The crap they force on us……retaliating by beating them over the head repeatedly with that book is justified.

        Since we have two hands, throw Casey’s libertarian anarchy in there too.

    2. Sometimes the only way to change a person’s lifestyle and diet is to let them have their first heart attack.

  14. A lightly annotated story from today’s L.A. Times ….

    Brian, the link to the LA Times story is wrong.

    1. Thanks. If you refresh, it should be correct now.

  15. Council member Curren Price is opposed to any exemption:

    “Philosophically, I do not feel comfortable saying to transitional workers that, because they have faced challenges in their lives, they deserve to be paid less than every other worker in the city,” he said in an email statement.

    Isn’t it ironic that this socialist bureaucrat’s name is so close to “current price”?

    The guy that wants to set wages for former gang bangers–and decide whether they get a job–by refusing to let the market set the price itself is named “Curren Price”?

    That’s like straight out of Ayn Rand central casting! You want a double-talking feel-good politican who doesn’t know his head from his ass and thinks the free market is when he sets the price himself? You might name him “Curren Price”, but even Ayn Rand would think that was a little too obvious. That’s like naming a character that refuses to work for a living, “Jack Assworth”.

    1. “”Philosophically, I do not feel comfortable saying to transitional workers that, because they have faced challenges in their lives, they deserve to be paid less than every other worker in the city,” he said in an email statement.”

      “However I think strawmen are awesome and I will continue to erect an army of them.”

      1. Yeah, there are a number of flaws in his thinking.

        He also doesn’t seem to appreciate that if these people don’t get an exemption, they’re going to be paid less than everyone else alright–unemployed people make zero.

        And he seems to think that if the city council makes a rule, everyone in the city is going to obey it. But the people that are seeking this exemption are hiring convicted criminals.

        Drug dealing, protection rackets, home invasions, armed robberies… Almost all of these workers, presumably, have found other ways to make a living that aren’t subject to the minimum wage–no matter what the city council voted.

        1. “unemployed people make zero.”

          That is not true in today’s society.

          Therein lies the problem.

          King James Bible
          For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
          2 Thessalonians 3:10

        2. Now you’re just being silly. Being unemployed is great for the economy, why look at how much money unemployment check filled the local economy.

      2. Like you do with Somalia. Yay!!!

        1. That’s not a strawman that’s the reality of anarchism.

          1. Rule by despotic warlords and/or Sharia law = anarchism? That’s… not accurate.

      3. How much does erecting strawmen pay?

    2. That’s like naming a character that refuses to work for a living, “Jack Assworth”.

      That’s insulting… asses have a long and rich history as beasts of burden.

  16. Piers Morgan
    ?
    @piersmorgan

    ‘Banning guns is like banning forks in an attempt to stop making people fat’ – Vince Vaughn, proving it’s not just his movies that are dumb.
    5:57 PM – 1 Jun 2015

    1. Unfortunately a bunch of his movies are almost as dumb as Piers Morgan.

      1. Well, I for one liked Old School, Dodgeball, Anchorman, Starsky and Hutch, and especially Swingers.

        Not to mention his appearance on The Larry Sanders Show:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICuqHqBOesM

        1. Hey now!

        2. Anchorman is a Will Ferrel movie. Liking Ferrel movies is not okay.

    2. I thought we deported that asshole?

      1. I think he oozed back in.

        Can you and your reptilian friends eat him first when you take over? I mean, so at least the rest of us can have some levity before we are eaten.

  17. OT: MERS OUTBREAK IN SOUTH KOREA KILLS 2

    http://www.independent.co.uk/n…..90592.html

    I was never worried about Ebola because I am educated in microbiology. I am much more concerned about this.

    1. I used to worry about getting the clap. …especially at the beaches near Camp Pendleton.

      Just bag it up, and you’ll be fine.

      http://tinyurl.com/b9ezvus

      1. You can’t put a condom on your lungs Ken.

        1. You’re doing it wrong.

          1. Do you like having your alveoli rubbed?

            1. I believe Rufus should answer that, he’s the resident expert on Italian cuisine.

              1. Impossible! He lives in Kebbec!

              2. I am?

                Atsamatta fo you!

              3. His name is not Rufus, it’s Mario.. or Luigi.. and he’s probably an expert on plumbing.

    2. “[…] I am much more concerned about this.”

      Not sure; here’s a bit more:
      http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06…..index.html
      We have 1,139 cases world-wide in 3 years, ~38% mortality, but the claim is “related” deaths, and nothing about the care any received.
      And then: “”Most of the people who died had an underlying medical condition, according to the CDC. Some infected people had only mild symptoms (such as cold-like symptoms) or no symptoms at all.”

      There’s already reason enough to stay the hell away from Saudi Arabia; looks like one more, but other than that…

      1. And avoid kissing camels.

        And we all know it’s illegal to eat a camel after you have fucked it/she/him ?

        Right ?

        1. OneOut|6.1.15 @ 10:56PM|#
          “And avoid kissing camels.”

          I’m glad you mentioned that; I’d sort of ignored it and now, I’ll make sure my friends and family resist the temptation.
          Thanks!

          1. Oh, but what about kissing bats?!

  18. ” A Teaching Moment for Those Trying to Help the Underprivileged”

    Stop taking these people at their word. Look at what they do, the results of the policies they advocate. They don’t give half a shit for the underprivileged. This is about crushing competition and jacking up union wages.

    Call them what they are.

    1. Teaching moment, presupposes they are interested in learning.

      laughable.

  19. Sluts?

  20. “Homeboy has spent months seeking relief from the law”

    my homeboy just trying to keep it real

  21. OT:

    If I could make a book recommendation: Priest by Matthew Collville.

    It’s a hard-boiled fantasy novel, and I have found it quite enjoyable, so far. It’s a self-published work. I found out about it while watching his series of videos “Making a Fighter in every edition of D&D”.

    1. I’d recommend The Thought Gang.

    2. And here’s the link to the video since he was too….cavalier about the info in his post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ssk9xf_7U

  22. The same dynamic hit Oakland, where the raise was sufficient to cause damage:

    “Oakland minimum-wage hike puts child caregivers in a jam”
    […]
    ” March 16–Workers who benefit from Oakland’s minimum wage hike might soon lose a service that enables them to work in the first place. It turns out the well-intentioned law is putting a financial squeeze on Oakland’s child care industry, leading some providers to panic.
    […]
    “We’re scrambling to find ways to keep the doors open,” said Capt. Dan Williams, Alameda County coordinator of the Salvation Army. He says the added payroll costs of providing workers with a $12.25-an-hour wage have put his organization’s Booth Memorial Child Development Center and family shelter $146,000 over budget, which is “quite a bit for a facility that was barely making it as it was.”
    […]
    A number of other day care centers face the same predicament.
    [Paging Rufus]
    Child care centers operate on razor-thin margins — thinner, even, than those of the restaurant industry”
    http://cqrcengage.com/mnmajori…..nt/6924228

    What’s interesting here is the SA warned the city gov’t about this prior to it going on the ballot where it was bound to pass (Oaktown ain’t noted for brains). The proggies simply said it wasn’t true.

    1. ” […] well-intentioned […]”

      And there it is, folks. They meant well.

      1. It is amazing that a lefty rag like the Chron offered that; they support rent control in the face of Kruggy’s comments:

        “consider an article that appeared in yesterday’s New York Times, ”In San Francisco, Renters Are Supplicants.” It was an interesting piece, with its tales of would-be renters spending months pounding the pavements, of dozens of desperate applicants arriving at a newly offered apartment, trying to impress the landlord with their credentials. And yet there was something crucial missing — specifically, two words I knew had to be part of the story.”
        http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06…..ffair.html

  23. Another OT…well, I don’t know what to call it:
    Heresy, maybe?

    1. One of the joys of that movie is that it was cheap and wasn’t great but it was a hell of lot of fun to watch.

      Is this one of these times that they are going to upbudget the thing to try to “make it better” and they run over and erase the things that made the original so much fun?

      1. For real! Big Trouble in Little China is awesome because it does not try to be awesome, it is just awesome.
        “Hey Kurt, be all John Wayne-ey and call that guy Dave.”

        This ruined my night.

        1. Plus Kurt Russel is awesome and Dwayne Johnson is just a meathead

        2. Sorry, CJ 🙁

          If I had known I would ruin a night, I’d have saved it for something really uplifting, were I to ever find that here.

          1. I don’t blame you, I blame Hollywood (so the Jooz).

            Me right now.

      2. “[it] wasn’t great”

        How dare you.

    2. First Red Dawn, then Point Break, and now this? I literally can’t.

      1. And The Thing! (I know the Carpenter version was a remake, but fuck).

        1. If all of the remakes/sequels/prequels had Mary Elizabeth Winstead in them, though…

          Sorry; lost my train of thought.

          1. Go look for her leaked nudes and skip the shitty movie.

    3. You leave Jack Burton (the character) alone!

  24. Hi Brian,

    I clicked on the excel spreadsheet picture with some degree of expectation of seeing a chart. I was very excited to see such a chart as I have never seen any conclusive evidence that increases in minimum wage increase unemployment. I remain disappointed and mystified. I went to Forbes.com to look for someone that could provide me with such information and got this an article by tim worstall entitled We are Seeing the Effects of a Minimum Wage Hike, which posits the following:

    1. A bunch of workers at seatac got increases in their salary because of the increase in minimum wage
    2. We can’t differentiate between the unemployment rate of seatac workers from the general population
    3. But don’t worry the sample size is too small so this doesn’t mean anything
    4. A couple of restaurants have closed in Seattle [but none of the owners cite that as a reason for closing]
    5. Lesson 4. Is definitive and we don’t care if there isn’t really any macroeconomic data to support our case because we have some models that were developed by Adam smith to make our case.

    Can I get a job writing for you guys? Sounds like easy work.

    1. Shut up, you suck.

    2. AS, are you postulating anything with your post? I mean, are we supposed to read it and come to the conclusion that you think that raising the minimum wage is a net positive for both employer and employee?

      1. For the employee that gets a raise from $7 to $15/hr? Surely.

        1. For the one fired because he can’t meet the imposed arbitrary value-production cut-off of $15/hr, no.

          1. And the guy who was kept on and got the pay increase now has to work harder to pick up for the guy who was cut.

            1. “And the guy who was kept on and got the pay increase now has to work harder to pick up for the guy who was cut.”

              And the guy who got the pay increase might not even see much of a pay increase due to increased prices resultant from the minimum wage jump. There’s this thing called ‘real wages’ which accounts for how much you’re actually paid when you take into consideration the cost of living. High minimum wage raises the cost of living. Hence, your real wage might not actually increase whatsoever due to the higher costs of the goods around you.

              I know – that’s some crazy talk right there! I must be some kinda right-wing rethuglican.

              1. “[…]There’s this thing called ‘real wages’ which accounts for how much you’re actually paid when you take into consideration the cost of living. High minimum wage raises the cost of living.[…]”

                Inflation is easy to define and not so easy to measure.
                One way to assure inflationary pressure is to, by fiat, increase the nominal cost of a good without increasing the value to the buyer.
                Pretty sure even Kruggy would accept that definition.

          2. That guy was clearly a wrecker, anyway.

        2. american socialist|6.1.15 @ 9:39PM|#
          “For the employee that gets a raise from $7 to $15/hr? Surely.”

          Yes, it’s possible to find one, maybe, but doubtful. If that employee were worth double what they are paid, it’s an odds-on bet they would change jobs. You think people in the same jobs don’t talk?
          And then while we might find one, we’ll certainly find many who are now earning the real minimum wage of $0.00 as a result.

          1. There’s another problem with the bullshit logic behind the minimum wage hike. There is this assumption that without the minimum wage evil employers would pay their employees next to nothing. If it were really the case that wages and salaries were entirely determined by the employer then almost nobody would be paid more than minimum wage.

            Yet another problem is the focus on people trying to maintain a family on minimum wage. I won’t blame minimum wage workers for their plight, but I will ask how it is that the best job they can get is a minimum wage job. Apparently state interventions into the economy assured that the best jobs some breadwinners could get were jobs intended for high school kids, or people just getting into the workforce.

            1. “There is this assumption that without the minimum wage evil employers would pay their employees next to nothing. If it were really the case that wages and salaries were entirely determined by the employer then almost nobody would be paid more than minimum wage.”
              I run into this fallacy nearly daily in my business; the presumption that one of the parties in a trade sets the price.
              It’s true enough in the case of commodities; ask what you please, and you’ll get what buyers are paying. And if you, as an employee, are a commodity, well, see below:

              “Yet another problem is the focus on people trying to maintain a family on minimum wage. I won’t blame minimum wage workers for their plight, but I will ask how it is that the best job they can get is a minimum wage job.”
              I won’t blame them for taking minimum wage, but I will blame them for having children they can’t afford.

              1. I won’t blame them for taking minimum wage, but I will blame them for having children they can’t afford.

                I’m hesitant to even do that — with all the screwing around with regulations, minimum-wage, taxes, hidden-taxes and a “we deserve to be involved in every aspect of everyone’s lives” that we see from government, I have to question the legitimacy of that ‘can’t afford as a legitimate baseline — after all, the statists are perfectly fine asserting that they own the child and parents only have any say by their leave… and it seems to me that a “can’t afford” is the nice-sounding ill-defined sound-bite justification they would use.

        3. You didn’t answer the question I asked, which was if you thought it was a net positive for both employer and employee.

          That wouldn’t be a dodge, now, would it?

        4. Hey AS.

          Are you sending your used toilet paper to your fellow traverlers in Venezuala for them to recycle ?

          If not you should because their minimum wage isn’t high enough for them to afford it. There is a capitalist rumor that they don’t have any toilet paper at all except for what the government used to call currency.

          If only they would raise their minimum wage high enough that everyone could afford toilet paper the world would be just and fair, and socialist.

    3. If you had searched harder at Forbes you would have found the study that compares states affected by the federal min wage increase and with those that weren’t and conclusively finds that min wage destroyed millions of jobs. If you weren’t a dipshit you’d even understand it.

    4. american socialist|6.1.15 @ 9:23PM|#
      Hi Brian,
      “I clicked on the excel spreadsheet picture with some degree of expectation of seeing a chart”

      Hi, asshole,
      Gee, no one gave you pictures and reading is hard, right?
      “The Effect of New Jersey’s Minimum Wage Increase on Fast-Food Employment: A Re-Evaluation Using Payroll Records”
      http://www.nber.org/papers/w5224

      “I Get Empirical on Minimum Wage”
      […]
      So Paul Krugman et al. are telling us that the empirical literature shows that minimum wage laws don’t have a discernible impact on teen unemployment. Yet another right-winger myth flushed down the toilet.
      […]
      I went and looked at the paper Krugman says documents this fact.
      […]This sounded a little fishy to me, so I decided to do my own, very naive, straightforward look at the data.
      http://consultingbyrpm.com/blo…..-wage.html
      Those are from the linked article, so, no, a lefty ignoramus such as yourself is not qualified to write here.
      (con’t)

      1. Her’s the rest, asshole:
        There’s a 2-link limit, so I’ll trust that if you really ARE interested, you’ll look further. And what’s more is trust that you’re a lying piece of shit who won’t read anything that would be heretical to your religion.
        Now, let’s get real: You and every other lefty ignoramus claims you can change behavior since incentives matter. And yet here, incentives seem to operate backward. So before you ask me for studies showing, in effect, that water is safe to drink, how about YOU propose some method whereby raising the cost of hiring people won’t reduce that hiring?
        How about it, asshole?

        1. I don’t think he’ll come back to answer your question, Sevo.

          1. Did you get the note about the margins in child care, above? (8:51 PM)

    5. Cool story, bro.

      I mean, I didn’t read it cause it was stupid, but I’m sure you meant well.

    6. Don’t be silly, we all know you don’t/can’t/don’t believe in, work.

      We also know that you:

      Don’t do math (see work)
      Don’t think (see work)
      Lie (a central tenet of socialism as “the end justifies the means”)
      Should be killed immediately (think of it as “reform” and protection for the rest of us)

  25. A Teaching Moment

    A teaching moment requires the recipient of the lesson to be capable of learning it. Or even interested.

    I wouldn’t hold my breath.

  26. OT: Charirma Pao doubles down

    http://time.com/3904431/ellen-…..xism-case/

    1. Pao II:The Empowaning

    2. In late April, Kleiner Perkins indicated it would seek to recover $973,000 in legal costs incurred during the trial from her. But the firm offered to wave them if Pao chose not to appeal the case.

      Excellent.

    3. Linky SF’d

    4. ‘Silicon Valley’s sometimes sexist culture and lack of diversity.’

      Now there’s one insipid sentence.

      And since when does being ‘diverse’ equal being ‘progressively enlightened’? How did it come to be that a ‘diverse’ work place is a sign of equality?

      Diversity as a means to itself is meaningless; dare I say patronizing.

      But that’s just the whitey in me talking.

    5. “Pao, who filed a lawsuit against investment firm Kleiner Perkins in 2012, lost the case on all four counts just over two months ago following a five-week trial in San Francisco. In her lawsuit, Pao alleged that during her seven years at the firm, known for investments in Google and Genentech, she was passed up for promotions and retaliated against because of her gender and for speaking out against the firm’s sexist climate. Although she lost her case, Pao succeeded in becoming a symbol of Silicon Valley’s sometimes sexist culture and lack of diversity.”

      Lack of diversity? Ellen Pao is Asian. As of 2010, Asians accounted for 50.1% of Silicon Valley tech jobs despite making up, what, 4% of the American population?

      If there’s a ‘lack of diversity’ in Silicon Valley, it’s because the racial group Ellen Pao belongs to has a disproportionate percentage of the jobs. I think we need some affirmative action to boot Ellen Pao out of her position at Reddit in favor of some black guy.

      1. I think we need some affirmative action to boot Ellen Pao out of her position at Reddit in favor of some black guy.

        Just make sure it isn’t her husband.

        1. Wow.

          it seems liek she cought the racial discrimination bug in bed.

          “Prior to his marriage to Pao, Fletcher was in a same-sex relationship with Hobart V. “Bo” Fowlkes, Jr. for more than 10 years.[38][39][40]”

          I didn’t know you could just switch teams like that ? I though homos were born that way ? Maybe he underwent that conversion therapy that Obama is trying to outlaw. ?

          1. She may just be his beard in this case, but there are bi people you know?

            1. are they born that way too?

              So cool! Everything is protected and built into genetics except being a prog which is apparently divine enlightenment.

              Sadly, I now believe progs are born that way too … clearly a birth defect.

          2. Some are born that way.

            Others are sucked into it…

    6. “In her lawsuit, Pao alleged that during her seven years at the firm, known for investments in Google and Genentech, she was passed up for promotions and retaliated against because of her gender and for speaking out against the firm’s sexist climate. Although she lost her case, Pao succeeded in becoming a symbol of Silicon Valley’s sometimes sexist culture and lack of diversity.”

      Ans so the “person” who wrote thiss seems to agree with Pao and has decided that yes indeed , “Pao succeeded in becoming a symbol of Silicon Valley’s sometimes sexist culture and lack of diversity.””

      I mean, fuck those 12 people who listened to the evidence and issued a verdict. They were probably all 12 white males.

      1. “Although she lost her case, Pao succeeded in becoming a symbol of Silicon Valley’s sometimes sexist culture and lack of diversity.”

        She became a “symbol” to those who have no desire to deal with reality.

  27. I just hope that smartphones and cryptocurrency make it easier to be an ‘independent contractor’ or otherwise walk around this crap. Like maybe you send your cryptocurrency to a third party that anonymously sends it to your employer, offsetting your min wage.

  28. “If those program participants had a say in what their wage would be, then that’s a different conversation,” Hicks said to The Times.

    WAGE SLAVERY!!!!!!

    1. No one ever negotiates their own wage! Only the employer has the power!

      Incidentally, the other day my boss gave me a raise without my having to ask because he appreciated the work I do for him. That’s weird – I was under the impression that bosses are all stupid rich fat cats who only raise wages if forced to do so by unions or governments. An employer giving his employee a raise because he likes his work and wants to try to keep him there or reward him for his efforts? Completely absurd.

      1. You’re male and white therefore privileged therefore your experience doesn’t count oh and also SHUT UP AND LET ME SPEAK

  29. Minimum wage hikes, obamacare, food stamps, section 8 housing, why did I waste my time learning a skill??

    1. you forgot mandated mortgage restructurings. Should have bought twice the house you could afford.

  30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PWgOAtCn8k

    Bill Whittle is sometimes awesome.

    He rants with the best of them. Don’t always agree with him, but man when he’s on he kills it.

    “You know, progressives support Andres Serrano’s right to be insulting and provocative and Michael Moore and Jon Stewart and Garry Trudeau’s, they fight for their rights to be provocative and insulting, but not for any belief in the actual principles of free speech because that would take courage. No, they support their fellow progressives’ right to be offensive to conservatives and Christians because they know nothing is going to happen to them if they do. But insult the prophet and that these days has consequences. And that, of course, is the entire point, right?”

    1. I don’t get it. Is that guy like the Agile Cyborg of the left.

      1. ???

        He’s pretty fucking conservative. He works for David Horwitz of all people.

        I also think it’s pretty easy to understand what he’s saying. I think it comes off a bit difficult when transcribed because he’s speaking it and so the grammar isn’t perfect when written out. The grammar’s actually a bit fucked up in the middle section there, but it’s not like Agile Cyborg where it’s filled with claims about space orgasms and such.

        Also, where has Cyborg been? Haven’t seen him recently. Did the drugs get him, cause I recall him having a rough night recently.

        1. The drugs don’t get Agile Cyborg, Agile Cyborg gets the drugs.

          1. His early comments yesterday were spot-on and even coherent. Good enough to persuade soft-core lefties, even. As time (and presumably chemistry) went on, he became the AC we know and love, but it never got scary.

  31. The exemptions will fly off the shelves once the increased minimum wage bites the democrat base. Lots of immigrants and non whites have businesses in LA, and the neighboring Orange County (lower sales tax) has great shopping spots.

    Bloomberg’s soda ban lost momentum when minority businesses there complained that it affected them disproportionately. After the courts struck it down the left kinda gave up on that idea.

    Even if exemptions don’t happen, the city LA will not enforce their min wage hike. Not in any meaningful way, anyways. They’ll bust some worst offenders, but the cash will flow freely under the table.

  32. How can we teach everyday people (voters), especially those who believe that “economics” is an isolated, boring area of study that they can ignore, that prices (including wages) are signals?

    Sometimes I have a glimmer of hope that if we can get tech-minded people to appreciate that price setting of any kind is the equivalent of destroying precious data that can then never to be recovered or simulated, they might begin to understand.

  33. The State and Cities of California should hire everyone at FAIR wages and then loan them to favored businesses that are CORRECT and then they would become the first utopia in the USA. It would be the perfect marriage of crony capitalism and a workers’ paradise…and that word SUSTAINABLE. (I swear I didn’t steal the idea from Krugman. Promise.)

    1. “and that word SUSTAINABLE.”

      Interesting book: The Long Divergence ( http://www.amazon.com/Long-Div…..divergence )
      The author makes the point that Muslim legal structures and strictures on commercial organizations were perfectly adequate; ‘sustainable’, if you will.
      Western ditto weren’t, which lead to experimentation and an outcome of commercial arrangements yielding long-lasting businesses where the dealings were non-personal and durable over time. He makes the point that this requires a corporate (legal ‘personhood’ and limited liability) structure, and shows it was not a recent development.
      Because the Muslim commercial law *was* sustainable; it failed to require or produce progress; Schumpeter was wise beyond his claims.

  34. Could we please stop using the term “underprivileged”? It’s utter nonsense.

  35. The 7 Day Millionaire is THE REAL DEAL. Don’t blow this off. You’re minutes away from SERIOUS MONEY. Check this out ?

    …………….. http://www.Times-Report.com

  36. This isn’t really a simple issue though – if you don’t have a minimum wage, then because of welfare, you end up having the government essentially subsidizing wages for companies.

    Which is better, companies having fewer employees, but better paid ones that don’t need government welfare programs (food stamps, housing assistance, health care), or a lot of employees that do?

    I think the former is probably better. If you can’t run a business that brings in enough money to pay employees a wage they can live on without government help, then your business model is probably flawed and shouldn’t be subsidized by taxpayers and businesses that aren’t.

    1. Employed people pay into their own welfare bennies through taxes. Unemployed people do not pay into a system that provides for them. The employees that make the 15$ an hour wage will soon be paying more into the system to provide for the increasing number of unemployed.

    2. That’s how I would approach your argument from your own perspective.

    3. If you can’t run a business that brings in enough money to pay employees a wage they can live on without government help…

      Businesses aren’t charities. They don’t exist simply to pay people. That’s what government does, because government can use violence on “customers” who don’t want to pay for things they neither want nor need. Businesses don’t have that luxury. They have to turn a profit to exist, and they can’t turn a profit by paying people more than they produce for the company.

      Employees who get paid low wages don’t make low wages forever. Those are entry level positions, and people can earn more after they gain some experience. So it’s not some static pool of people in those low wage jobs. It’s a stepping stone.

      Take away that stepping stone and you leave many young and inexperienced people in the dust.

      So tell me, why do you want young and inexperienced people to never have the opportunity to better themselves?

    4. Re: JeremyR,

      This isn’t really a simple issue though – if you don’t have a minimum wage, then because of welfare, you end up having the government essentially subsidizing wages for companies.

      You don’t receive welfare if you have a job. This is the reason why a lot of people don’t even bother looking for a job.

      Which is better, companies having fewer employees, but better paid ones that don’t need government welfare programs (food stamps, housing assistance, health care), or a lot of employees that do?

      How about companies having the exact number of employees it requires, except without the distortions created by government?

      1. OM. He is talking about this.

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/cl…..ssistance/

        It’s the standard Progressive argument for raising the minimum wage. What the Progressives fail to see is that those Walmart workers, are also taxpayers. Taxpayers being taxed the Bejeusus out of by Progressive policies.

  37. ” client”?

    Clients pay for something. These are beneficiaries or trainees.

  38. Perish forbid the left should eat its own dog food.

  39. … they are messing around this matter as in Europe and especially Italy where the youth unemployment has soared 44%. Why in the word they just don’t look at the European Countries.

  40. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ?????? http://www.jobnet20.com

  41. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ?????? http://www.www.jobnet20.com

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