You'll Never Guess Which 2016 Candidate Penn Jillette Likes Best After Watching Their Awful Campaign Videos

Libertarian magician looks at political propaganda so you don't have to

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In a fun piece for CNN.com, American hero Penn Jillette wades through the campaign-announcement videos of 2016 presidential candidates Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, Mike Huckabee, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Hillary Clinton, Rand Paul, and Bernie Sanders, and judges his preferences purely on what he saw. You'll have to click through to see the perhaps-surprising winner; regardless of conclusion, I think a lot of libertarians will be nodding along to observations like:

"Heal, Inspire, Revive"? Not one of those words has anything to do with government. […]

… mentioned nothing about government […]

what's not to like? Everything else. Also not one word about ideas of government. […]

Not one of these candidates has stated any ideas whatsoever. I know you know that, but have you watched these? I don't want hope and a new direction from these people -- I get that from my family and friends. I really don't care how great and inspiring these people are. I don't want great and inspiring, I want ideas that I can agree or disagree with.

It can be perpetually surprising for some of us naïve libertarians how detached modern political discourse usually is from the kinda-sorta important question of Just what are your practical and philosophical ideas about the size, scope, and proper role of government? Asking variants on that question is some of what we here can bring to the conversation.

Here's a Reason TV interview with Penn Jillette from 2011:

Comments

[Winston]

American hero Penn Jillette

At least they aren't making me engage in ass-sex.

[Caleb Turberville]

Compliments to Penn Jillette on his weight loss. Also, Bernie Sanders might be my second favorite candidate of the ones listed.

[Winston]

You Know Who Else thought an Honest Socialist was a good idea?

[Rich]

Diogenes?

[Charles Easterly]

+1 Lantern in daylight

[Corning]

If I were not Corning I would be Diogenes.

[HeteroPatriarch]

Caleb Turberville? Wait...

[Whole Card]

Idi Amin?

[Austrian Anarchy]

Note: He not only wants national socialism, his great examples of it are almost all Caucasian.

[Ed Ucation]

This fucking "you know who else" meme is more stale than Ayn Rand's last pack. Can we give it a rest?

[Butler T. Reynolds]

You know who else wants to give it a rest?

[Austrian Anarchy]

MoveOn.Org?
I withdraw my guess. They can't move on from anything.

[Paul.]

Compliments to Penn Jillette on his weight loss

If it was intentional. When I see sudden weight loss like that, I think "pancreatic cancer".

[Episiarch]

It was intentional. He went on a severely calorie-reduced diet and stuck to it, though it's a little weird for my tastes--ok, maybe a lot weird because it eschews animal products and a whole lot of other stuff. But it worked for him. He didn't come up with it, it's some doctor's or guru's diet.

[DKCMOM1]

Pulling off a big weight loss in mid life is tricky. You are healthier, but the body doesn't bounce back like it would in your 20's. I'm glad he feels healthier, but my hubs just overcame a severe illness with tremendous weight loss, I feel vaguely uncomfortable looking at Penn because it reminds me of what my husband looked like.

[Ed Ucation]

TIL Penn lost a lot of weight and has a special place in his heart for hipsters.

[croaker]

I was about to say, damn is Penn sick?

[Caleb Turberville]

I highly recommend Penn & Teller's old, old TV specials from the 80s and early 90s. That was truly groundbreaking TV.

[SIV]

They were good on Sabrina the Teenage Witch too.

[rocks]

Oh come on, we all know why you watched Sabrina sicko.

[robc]

She was legal. Now, on Clarissa....

[BiPolarMoment]

Salem, that sweet pussy.

[PH2050]

Political teevee ads are for the masses enslaved by the boob tube so of course they're devoid of any real content.

[Hugh Akston]

Dorm room philosopher or angry loner conspiracy theorist?

[Gojira]

At least he didn't say "sheeple".

[JW]

WAKE UP AMERIKKKA!

[BiMonSciFiCon]

CRAAAB PEOPLE!

[Agammamon]

Both? HIs dorm roomie moved out to go live off-campus in a two bedroom apartment with 5 other dudes and spends all his time out of class smoking dope and banging chicks - which just makes the rejection even worse.

[Paul.]

Dorm room philosopher

Is there another type?

[Hugh Akston]

Yes! There's also the type that live in jars.

[Charles Easterly]

Let us not forget the Stand Up Philosophers.

[Hugh Akston]

"I coalesce the vapor of human experience into a viable and logical comprehension."

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Oh, a bullshit artist! Did you bullshit last week?"

[PH2050]

Sarc. Lighten up, Frances.

[Mx. F. Stupidity, Jr.]

Sarcasm is nigh-indistinguishable from authentic derp these days.

[PH2050]

So we're approaching the Derpularity?

Diary entry: "May 11 - Was taught to never forget the /sarc tag when posting. Alcohol consumption is no excuse."

[JWW]

Annnnd yet another big name libertarian turns his back on Rand because Rand's not the *perfect* libertarian.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Oh, yeah and his final choice. Gimme a break. At least Bernie's a nice guy, so who gives a damn if he screws up the country with stupid socialist ideas.

I expected much better from Penn.

[Pro Libertate]

Penn has been weird and on the wrong side of some issues since his weight loss. I blame the diet.

[JW]

He may need a reboot.

[Pro Libertate]

Let's go to the Slammer, shove him in a truck, and drive him to Cleveland for deprogramming. You know my methods.

[JW]

An almost fanatical devotion to the Pope?

[Pro Libertate]

Well, that's one of my three--I mean five--methods. The other is to use Warty as a persuader.

[Paul.]

Isn't the threat of being driven to Cleveland persuasion enough?

[Pro Libertate]

It's the persuasion appetizer. Kind of like sleep deprivation is used by the Russians prior to the beatings.

[Libertymike]

Other examples of unpleasant surprises or poorer performance ensuing a big weight loss:

(1) C C Sabbathia (sp?)

(2) Jackie Gleason

(3) J.D. Hayworth

[Austrian Anarchy]

He and the family have mostly moved from The Slammer, now they are at Hawk (IIRC). The Slammer is going on the block soon.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Get that man a steak and a bourbon, stat.

[GILMORE]

"Penn has been weird and on the wrong side of some issues since his weight loss. I blame the diet."

This. and i bet he smells funny now as well.

I really don't think he looks half as 'healthy'. he looks like a vampire drank his blood, and he survived.

[The Bad Captain Madly]

Annnnd yet another big name libertarian turns his back on Rand because Rand's not the *perfect* libertarian.

You might get the idea that there's bloody little difference between libertarians and their more mainstream competitors.

[MJGreen]

Lighten up, Francis. It's an exercise based on the announcement videos.

[Paul.]

i agree here. He said he wanted ideas he could agree or disagree with. it's entirely likely that Bernie (BERNIE!) gave him a bunch of ideas he could disagree with.

[generic Brand]

Did you read his explanation for choosing Bernie? He based it solely on the candidates' initial campaign video, and nothing else. Bernie apparently put forth actual ideas on running the country in his video, whereas everyone else's video was pure fluff (and not the good, marshmallowy kind). And Rand's video has been removed from YouTube because copyright laws suck.

So it's not that he turned his back on Rand Paul at all.

[Old Man With Candy]

Have to disagree. Start with the axiom that any politician who can get elected will not be anything but a statist. You may not like that, but it's true. So the next question is, which candidate will cause the most gridlock with congress, the next best thing to having a libertarian in the White House? Sanders is not a bad choice in that respect. On top of that, he's likely to appoint Supreme Court justices with strong 1A and 4A credentials. Maybe even 2A, since Sanders has been reasonable about that as well.

Ima go with Penn on this one. Total inability of the government to function, more civil liberties among the Supremes.

[Winston]

he's likely to appoint Supreme Court justices with strong 1A

Bullshit

http://reason.com/blog/2014/09.....ljv6n:ye6c

[Old Man With Candy]

You're right re: campaign finance. "Individual" 1A is something he's better about.

[Trigger Hippie]

The promise of a political stalemate by dividing power amongst the executive and legislative branches rings hollow when Congress habitually cedes power to the Presidency. Lets face facts, we live under the rule of a term-limited emperor whose power only grows with each election cycle.

[Cytotoxic]

Insanity. Utter insanity. Yeah, we'll have gridlock-until Bernie gets half his loaf and we are fucked. The only SC justices he'd be interested in would be the kind that let the New Deal happen. Do you think putting FDR back in charge would also be fantastic?

Christ there is nothing so tiresome and delusional as the 'watch the world burn to freedom' "strategy" of some libertarians.

[Winston]

Also the implication is that the Dems and MSM will find Bernie too radical. I'm not sure of that.

[Agammamon]

Penn isn't saying Sanders is *good*.

Only that Sanders was the only one to actually have the balls to state *policy* in his video instead of mouthing gormless platitudes.

Of course, the reason Sanders can do that is Bernie is flat-out insane right from the get-go.

[Agammamon]

Also - Rand's not a libertarian, let alone not a perfect one.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

And Obama's not a socialist.

[Bobarian (sexbot hand model)]

But he is perfect.

Ask Shit Cork.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Penn Jillette wades through the campaign-announcement videos of 2016 presidential candidates Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, Mike Huckabee, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Hillary Clinton, Rand Paul, and Bernie Sanders, and judges his preferences purely on what he saw.

[Charlotte Falcon]

Agreed. I think Penn. can go fuck himself. Sanders is the Jewish Pol Pot.

[ThomasD]

In Cambodia they had to kill you because otherwise you could still carry on your miserable peasant ways.

Here they wont have to kill you, they'll just Joe the Plumber/George Zimmerman you into non-personhood.

[Rich]

I don't want great and inspiring, I want ideas that I can agree or disagree with.

What?! Don't you care whether they *care*?

[JW]

Not one of these candidates has stated any ideas whatsoeve

It's late afternoon again in America, Penn. Or maybe it's early evening, I can't really tell. It's around 6.

All I know is that means the day is over and I can finally have a beer, which has much greater value to me than a vote pissed away on the status quo.

[GILMORE]

cheers

[Cloudbuster]

Jesus, does JIllette have cancer or something? That amount of weight loss in that short a time is beyond dramatic, and it looks like there's some sort of bandage on his hand in that photo.

[JW]

http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/.....unds-diet/

[Cloudbuster]

Yes, I'm aware of the articles about the "extreme" diet, but I wonder if it's a front for other undisclosed problems.

[Hugh Akston]

Do you think he might be involved in the Kennedy assassination in some way?

[Cloudbuster]

Exactly.

[Pro Libertate]

Might be? Hugh, you poor, naive fool.

The truth, of course, is that Penn & Teller vanished him in the biggest trick in history, leaving behind only a JFK dummy with a mysterious 3 of clubs tattooed on it. The government, of course, covered up the whole business by arresting and murdering a KGB double-agent in the employ of the CIA. JFK lived until 2010 in Bora Bora, with fifty trained prostitutes.

[JW]

Is *this* your president?

You forgot about how JFK was their lovely assistant in their act for 3 years. Nobody did drag like Jack Kennedy.

[Pro Libertate]

Remember when they sneaked him on to Letterman, then distracted Dave and the audience by releasing all of those roaches? Poor Jack, though, having to be transported in a box of live cockroaches. The price you pay for an involuntary career in entertainment.

[HeteroPatriarch]

What would an untrained prostitute be?

[Pro Libertate]

Not very good at prostitution, of course. I'm sure you've noted before that prostitution is referred to as a profession. Like law, accounting, engineering, architecture, etc., prostitutes requires years of advanced training, and many obtain advanced degrees in order to get certified. Don't be fooled by how prostitutes are portrayed in TV and movies.

[Cloudbuster]

How can I get a job as a prostitute trainer?

[Pro Libertate]

Prostitutes can only be trained by prostitutes. I believe professional certification through apprenticeships is legal in some states. Off the top of my head, I recall Washington being one of those. Go see Episiarch and tell him what you want to do.

[PH2050]

Less successful?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"What would an untrained prostitute be?"

Your mom?

[Bobarian (sexbot hand model)]

She's a highly qualified amateur.

[Paul.]

Do you think he might be involved in the Kennedy assassination in some way?

Is she not still a going concern on Fox?

[Episiarch]

"I came to confess. I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll. ALLLLLRIIGGHHHTTY THEN."

[PH2050]

I knew it, you're that babushka lady I keep reading about!

[Hugh Akston]

Wow Epi, an Ace Ventura reference? I was wrong the other day when I said I couldn't possibly respect you less.

[Episiarch]

Well, I took that statement as a challenge. I knew you could respect me less. And there's plenty lower to go!

[juris imprudent]

Turtles, all the way down.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

He talked about his medical problems on his Sunday School podcast. He went to the hospital for a procedure of some sort and his BP went sky high and stayed there for a prolonged period of time, at which point he decided to lose a pound a day for about three months.

Ray Cronise (the guy who advocates using lowered environmental temperature to burn calories ala Michael Phelps) oversaw his program.

[Libertymike]

Joe Weider was on to that a long time ago. I remember a Muscle & Fitness article on the subject.

[The Hyperbole]

and it looks like there's some sort of bandage on his hand in that photo.

He's palming cards, being a magician and all.

[JW]

That? It's his Link. You know, in case Ivanova needs to contact him.

[Pro Libertate]

He should play alt-reboot-The Mod Squad Trek Harry Mudd in one of the movies they insist on continuing to make.

[JW]

You people need to respect the Rebo more.

Zooty zoot zoot!

[Cloudbuster]

Is that what that is? I couldn't identify it on the crappy little laptop screen I'm using.

[Robert]

Does Tannen's sell one?

[Robert]

I mean the gaff, not the laptop.

[Robert]

Oh, I see now, it actually is a card, not a device for sticking or hiding one. Maybe I should clean this screen.

[Robert]

I was assuming it was gaffed for a dagger-thru-the-hand trick or something.

[cfskyrim]

I took this for what it is. I've been saying the same thing for years. No politician ever says anything. Oh sure they talk a lot but they don't say anything.

"If you elect me president, I'll fix the economy" Great motherfucker, how? Specifics please, oh, no specifics you say, well spank my ass and call me a monkey, I'm shocked, truly shocked.

"If you elect me president, I'll bring about social justice" Ok, that's not your responsibility under the Constitution, so fuck you, I don't wanna hear your specifics.

"If you elect me president" Oh you get the fucking idea.

[cfskyrim]

I would also like to note that based upon this article and many hundreds of others that I have read at CNN, I conclude that their readers and commenters are some of the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet.

It stops being anecdotal after a while.

[mad.casual]

"I think she [Hillary Clinton] really does want everybody to be happier, and healthier, more successful, and everything else bu she knows what's best for them."

*Stops video. Scratches Penn Jillette off of list of names of libertarians to listen.*

I understand avoiding pragmatic approaches to libertarianism, but this is like drilling a hole in your head and pouring battery acid in to avoid it.

[cfskyrim]

People won't stay the course when their views are not popular and they are being asked about a more popular view/person.

Though when people do stand against the tide, they can sometimes make a change but it takes better men than Penn (not that he's a bad man, just he concedes far too much in my not so expert personal opinion)

[PH2050]

He's making fun of the videos. Relax. Take a deep breath. You are alive. Smile.

[mad.casual]

He's making fun of the videos. Relax. Take a deep breath. You are alive. Smile.

No, it's him rambling on about his 'apragmatic' approach and my judgement is not just this particular clip either.

He, for reasons I won't go into, constantly comes across as pompous to me. Almost like he has a chip on his shoulder.

What gets me is, on top of all that, he consistently has 'anti-dentite' moments. The libertarian equivalent of Deborah Messing's character from that Seinfeld episode. Humorous, intelligent, entertaining, and agreeable. Then he says something off-the-cuff like 'Oh, yeah and the Blacks and the Jews too.'

[RAHeinlein]

+1 - this coupled with his ultimate choice of Bernie Sanders, and dismissal of Rand b/c apparently anti-vac???

[Bill Dalasio]

And Paul's anti-vacc position is a lot more consistent with libertarianism than Jillette's.

[juris imprudent]

I think it was Rand pandering religion more than the hint of anti-vax.

[The Last American Hero]

He raises a point, but the campaign battlefield is littered with candidates who did just that and were immediately shot down as "too wonkish". There are also the Paul Ryan's of the world, who kinda-sorta tried to show how to balance a budget and was taken down by commercials of him pushing old people over a cliff - not by commercials articulating reasonable arguments of how Ryan's plan was unrealistic or unreasonable.

Meanwhile, Mitt gets called "Presidential" because of his awesome hair and Mr. Hopey Changey gets 8 years in the Oval Office.

[PH2050]

But who would you rather have a beer with?

[Libertymike]

Skip Gates?

[Vampire]

I'd rather have beer with the commenters here at reason.

[Charles Easterly]

I'll ask the atheists to pray for you.

P.S. Don't order any steak.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Zombie Ted Kennedy if he has a chauffeur?

[PH2050]

LOL! Eddie, I don't care what anyone else says, you're alright.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

If only everyone else were as drunk - I mean insightful - as you.

[Quincy, 12D]

You know who else tried to benefit politically from his popularity among beer drinkers?

[juris imprudent]

Baron Wolfgang von Wolfhausen?

[MJGreen]

Yes, there's ultimately a Gresham's Law type of dynamic. Style drives out substance.

[Derpetologist]

I watched about 5 hours of Team Red's South Carolina circle jerk the other day. I counted 2 concrete proposals in that time. Carson said there should be a tax holiday so money in foreign banks comes back to the US and Cruz said we should arm the Kurds. Everything else was platitudes. The stump speeches were almost the same as the ones given in New Hampshire and Iowa.

[Pro Libertate]

1. Stop the spending madness.
2. Reduce the scope and extent of government.
3. Restore some semblance of a free market economy.
4. Stop the incursions on our civil liberties by government at all levels.
5. I've got more, but we can start here.

[Derpetologist]

Here's my wish list:

1. End the war on drugs
2. End the income tax
3. Cut spending until the budget is balanced
4. End the Fed and return to the gold standard

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Shorter version

DERP, MORE DERP

[DWC]

Or, the shorthand version - adhere to the law of the land, the Constitution of the United States.

[Charles Easterly]

Music.
Ears.

[straffinrun]

4 would work, but just allowing competing currency to be used a legal tender would get you to the same goal.

[Derpetologist]

? When the fool is in the White House
And Huckabee maligns rock stars
Then derp will guide the debates
And Rand will get tarred

This is the dawning of the race of that's hilarious
The race that's hilarious, Hilarious!

[Pro Libertate]

The Fifth Demention.

[Derpetologist]

[applause]

In other news, words fail me:

https://youtu.be/C5yyOkohS0o?t=3m46s

[Episiarch]

As much as it pains me to compliment you in any way, that's actually pretty witty.

Oh god I feel dirty now...dirtier than that time with your mom...

[Pro Libertate]

If my mom and your mom were identical twins. . .no, scratch that. That would mean we were related, and I don't like that even as a hypothetical.

[Episiarch]

So wait, if we're related, all the time I spend in your basement taking pictures of your family through the walls is like...family time for us?

[Pro Libertate]

Okay, fine, so is it worse to sleep with your aunt if she's your mom's identical twin? I think so, but I wanted to see if you could tell me why or why not. Given your vast experience in mother-fucking.

[Episiarch]

It's hotter. Duh.

"Twins, Max! Twins!"

[Jesus H. Christ]

Nicely done!

[Azathoth!!]

That's just sad.

With this--and the caving to SJW shriekhounds, I'm starting to think that the weight loss might be illness.

You don't vote for Bernie--ever. He's a socialist. He's openly and honestly against everything you claim to believe in. He will happily destroy you and your life. He doesn't want to talk about government--he want the control that will allow him to never have to listen to anything but other socialists.

Let's just let Bernie enjoy Progressive Coalition ballot stuffing and let him live out his days as the socialist coot in the Senate.

[Cytotoxic]

This.

[Derpetologist]

For those who missed it, a VA center in NC is in danger of collapsing from the weight of piled up paperwork:

Veterans routinely complain about how much paperwork they have to generate to apply for VA benefits. They may have a point: the Department of Veterans Affairs inspector general reported Thursday that paper had piled so high at the VA's regional office in Winston-Salem, N.C., that it "appeared to have the potential to compromise the integrity of the building."

http://nation.time.com/2012/08.....k-problem/

[Derpetologist]

Maybe it's time for another paperwork cave:

The cave is located in Boyers, PA, and in its report the Washington Post called it the 'sinkhole of bureaucracy', noting that among government workers in America it has taken on the status of a near urban myth.The site sits 230ft below the surface and is a room the size of a supermarket with enough space for cabinets that can house 28,000 files.The US government bought it in 1958 to hold personnel files that were being relocated and leased the site after it had been developed by a private company.

........

Patty DeCaria, 57, who retired last year after 38 years in the mine, said that people tend to stay put there for decades. She said: 'Nobody up there goes on to another job. You can work Monday through Friday, 8 to 5. .?.?. There's mostly overtime, if you want it. They're really flexible about using leave. People don't leave Boyers'.In a statement Office of Personnel Management Director Katherine Archuleta admitted that things needed to change.She said: 'I do not believe that the current level of service is acceptable.'

[PH2050]

The sad thing is, I've been to that orifice office and it's located in the same building as a courthouse. I could never take notes on my smartphone since it isn't allowed in the building and when they detect your metal implants there's a whole hassle/ordeal you have to go through. The building looks pretty old so I'm not surprised at the danger thing.

I feel bad for the guys with missing limbs whose C&P claims are lumped in with the claims of guys who were stationed on an aircraft carrier and "have PTSD because I helped load armaments on an aircraft that later might have been used on civilians and so I want 100% disability rating and medical care for life"

[EdWuncler]

http://jezebel.com/rand-paul-t.....1703674232

"Paul likely isn't bluffing. Say what you will about his foreign policy bluster, his moral inconsistency in favoring freedom for everybody except pregnant women, or his propensity for shushing and correcting female journalists; if the man says he's going to be a real dick about something by never shutting up about it, history tells us that he is not lying."

I guess this is a complement........

[Episiarch]

From the article:

And apropos of nothing, this dumb law has been in effect for 13 and a half years, and until today, I didn't realize that it was an acronym for Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001. I like to picture it as a cross stitched acrostic framed in lace over Dick Cheney's guest toilet.

So she admits she's an idiot, and then does the classic "this shitty legislation, supported by a majority of both TEAMs, is actually all attributable to Dick Cheney" handwave. Plus everything Rand Paul does is bad, even if it's good, because TEAM.

Partisans are so utterly repulsive that it's hard to even read their shit. And they just. Keep. Getting. Worse.

[EdWuncler]

Paul is an abomination because he makes the members of their team look bad. Paul may have some flaws but he's done good work with regards to civil liberties and criminal justice reform, but the author is so partisan that she gives him some credit with a heavy dose of partisan snark.

[Episiarch]

It's just amazing to me how partisans are now literally at the point where they cannot acknowledge their "opponents" as having any positive qualities or good traits, ever. It has to be 100% demonization, or it's just not enough.

These people have become caricatures that are all too real.

[Charles Easterly]

"It's just amazing to me how partisans are now literally at the point where they cannot acknowledge their "opponents" as having any positive qualities or good traits, ever."

What may please you are the times you see them publicly silencing themselves once their "team member(s)" start crossing over/supporting their enemies' policies. Just imagine the cognitive dissonance from which they'll suffer.

I know this doesn't change anything for the better (in my opinion the firmest partisans are rather self-unaware and nearly incapable of positive change), but at the very least I think you'll experience some grim sort of amusement.

[Bill Dalasio]

Yup, it's the "Ideological Turing Test" I mentioned in a previous thread. People can't even recognize that their opponents might have a viewpoint that differs from their own. Try getting partisans to actually spell out their opponent's arguments. It's like a deer in the headlights.

[Redmanfms]

Try getting partisans to actually spell out their opponent's arguments. It's like a deer in the headlights.

I've found that even the least well-read Bible-believin' Fox News watching socon can quite accurately lay out the positions and supporting arguments of Democrats.

I've never witnessed the reverse.

[MJGreen]

Huh... the writer admits that Paul is correcting the female journalists, and not merely interrupting them.

And correcting them is a bad thing, I guess.

[juris imprudent]

Doesn't matter how butt ignorant that woman is, by Gaia she has a vagina and that gives her her undeniable right to be as stupid as she possibly can be and no MAN can say otherwise.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Penn gets slammed for not saying highly negative things about Obama or Hillary as people. He will publicly oppose their policies and ideas, but he doesn't call into question their basic "goodness". While he may be just such an eternal optimist that he believes their motivations are decent, I think he's simply trying to play a different game.

If he were to try to talk to a Hillary supporter, and start off how he thinks she should be executed for treason, he's lost any chance to make headway on ideology. By saying everyone is nice, blah blah blah he is removing attention from the person, and placing it on their ideas, which is the greater problem.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

You may believe in Penn, but he doesn't believe in you.

[Jesus H. Christ]

I don't need belief, just obedience.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Pipe down, son.

[PH2050]

There he goes! Bringing religion into everything like he always does!

/sarc

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Prolonged, enthusiastic cheering. Or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_lFbdP8xMU

[Stormy Dragon]

It's possible to think Jesus existed as a historical person but that his followers were mistaking about him being divine.

[PH2050]

+1 Passover Plot

[Robert]

David Brudnoy used to have politicians on, very nice to them on the air together, then once they'd leave say, "Of course s/he's a liar."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Mignia, Matt you just couldn't tell me he chose Bernie Fucken Sanders? It's two minutes I could have used to prepare my daughter's lunch. Now she may not have one. Happy?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Wow, making half of himself disappear is his best magic trick yet!

[Stormy Dragon]

So is Gilette going to the plastic surgeon soon, or is he just gonna go with the neck vagina look?

[PH2050]

Reminds me of a joke.

Guy wakes up and goes about his day, people keep asking him if he's okay. "I feel fine" he tells them. It gets to the point where he goes to his doctor to get checked out. "Doc" he says, "People keep asking me if I'm okay but I feel like I'm in perfect health. They say I look horrible. I don't understand it." Doctor draws blood, runs tests, everything comes back normal. "Hold on" the doctor says, "I need to consult my colleagues and some other resources." An hour later he calls the patient back into his office. "I determined what's wrong with you. It says right here in this book under the heading: Looks terrible, feels great."

"You're a goddamned vagina."

[PH2050]

#5DrinksIn #ThesePeopleAreBoring #ImThatDoucheInTheBarConstantlyOnHisPhone

[But Enough About Me]

+1 Golf clap

That's awesome.

[Rich]

Driven by higher interest costs, Social Security and Medicare for baby boomers, as well as tax cuts made permanent in 2012, the federal debt held by the public is expected to hit $40 trillion in 2035, according to calculations by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

Emphasis added. We owe it to *ourselves*!

[straffinrun]

While true in Japan that the public debt is held mainly by the Japanese, I wonder what the rest of the world is saying as they look at those piles of IOUs, I mean dollars, sitting in their vaults.

[Rich]

Oh, I was being a bit flippant.

[straffinrun]

Flip on.

[Derpetologist]

OT: 51 year old Hollywood actor joins fight against ISIS:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e1b_1431369620

[Rich]

he has no plans to return to the US or Britain any time soon.

Best wishes for the long haul.

[straffinrun]

He didn't need to travel across the world to fight an evil ideology that engages in perverse propaganda.

[Dweebston]

When asked if he misses home, Enright said: "No, I'm very happy to be here, to be doing something that I think will outlast me."
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i.....TvQjLcR.99

Possibly by a matter of days.

[Dweebston]

D'oh.

[Derpetologist]

Why it is a bad idea to stand up during a shoot out:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=84d_1414517128

[Suthenboy]

When I see those videos of how they fight I find it difficult to believe that any of those idiots survive for very long or that they are able to accomplish much of anything.

[Derpetologist]

During WW2, if you were a fighter pilot, you were either an ace or a target. Shitty pilots tended to get shot down pretty quickly.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

During WW2, if you were a fighter pilot, you were either an ace or a target. Shitty Inexperienced pilots tended to get shot down pretty quickly.

[Derpetologist]

I read about a US pilot who trained for 20 or so hours in one fighter, and when he got to England, he found out he would be flying a different plane into combat with no training. When he protested, the older pilot told him "it's OK, you can learn to fly it on your way to the target."

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yep. It was a different time. I don't think they yet understood the ROI of proper training or even realized what proper training was. That kind of thinking persisted until after Vietnam. It took guys like Boyd to turn aerial combat into a science.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

When I see those videos of how they fight I find it difficult to believe that any of those idiots survive for very long or that they are able to accomplish much of anything.

They don't. But we keep making replacements.

[Cytotoxic]

What?

[Derpetologist]

making enemies faster than they can be killed?

[Charles Easterly]

Yes.

FdA's observation has been my point since the "W" years, back when I was called anti-American/Liberal/terrist sympathizer (et cetera) and told that brave men and women were dying for my freedoms and I should shut up or move to another country.

Because, Derpetologist, brave men and women were fighting for my free speech and other freedoms and therefore....

[Derpetologist]

My brother is a medevac pilot in the Army. He saw a lot of carnage. I was talking to him on the phone and we got to talking about the war. I said that I didn't see how the deaths of American soldiers in the ongoing wars had anything to do with protecting the freedom of Americans. He got mad and hung up on me.

I think it was good to depose the Taliban and Saddam, but everything after that was a big mistake.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I said that I didn't see how the deaths of American soldiers in the ongoing wars had anything to do with protecting the freedom of Americans.

It doesn't. Service members buy into that rhetoric because it glamorizes them. It can be true. It's just not true in this (or every) instance they are sent to fight. The righteousness of the cause is in the hands of the politicians and in this instance, they've screwed the proverbial pooch. Folks don't like acknowledging the fact that their contribution (sacrifice?) supports a colossal clusterfuck.

The US has never been in danger of losing its liberty to the likes of terrorists. They aren't going to land an army on the Jersey Shore and take over America. The only way terrorism can take our liberty is by us choosing to limit ourselves due to our own cowardice.

[Cytotoxic]

The US has never been in danger of losing its liberty to the likes of terrorists.

I guess murdered cartoonists count for nothing.

They aren't going to land an army on the Jersey Shore and take over America.

Will they burn our strawmen instead?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I guess murdered cartoonists count for nothing.

No, they really don't. There are murders everyday. Have been since the beginning of time. You deal with murderers by finding them, arresting them, trying them, convicting them and punishing them.

We didn't deal with Al Capone by bombing the building he was occupying.

The criminal justice system, punishes the murderer. War, punishes the enemy combatant (who is never given due process) AND any innocent bystander who happens to be within several hundred feet of said enemy combatant. These innocent bystanders, of which there are many, have friends and relatives who may not see our obvious act of "necessity" as the just act that it is since we killed 50 innocents in the process. These friends and relatives might just wanna see some payback...

Acts of terrorism need to be treated as crimes. Find those (and only those) responsible and bring them to justice. War is reserved for occasions where the survival of the nation is at stake and there is no other rational political alternative.

[Cytotoxic]

No, they really don't.

Once again, noninterventionists sacrifice freedom of speech for 'peace'.

Acts of terrorism need to be treated as crimes.

Not if other countries or foreign entities are abetting them or carrying them ex Iran's involvement in the bombing of Khobar Towers.

These innocent bystanders, of which there are many, have friends and relatives who may not see our obvious act of "necessity" as the just act that it is since we killed 50 innocents in the process. These friends and relatives might just wanna see some payback...

Yawn. I am not obliged to entertain/indulge your 'blowback' pants-pissing fantasies that have never come to fruition, and neither is anyone else or the USG.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Once again, noninterventionists sacrifice freedom of speech for 'peace'.

Nice nonsequitur. No one is saying they shouldn't be brought to justice, moron.

Not if other countries or foreign entities are abetting them or carrying them ex Iran's involvement in the bombing of Khobar Towers.

Agreed. Proof. And then, such actions justify a retaliatory strike to curb the behavior rather than a 10 year $4T war that accomplishes the exact opposite of the stated goal.

Yawn. I am not obliged to entertain/indulge your 'blowback' pants-pissing fantasies that have never come to fruition, and neither is anyone else or the USG.

Such is evidence towards your complete lack of understanding of military strategy, human nature and reality.

I'm quite sure that when the US bombs your Canadian apartment building to kill the suspected terrorist on the second floor and kills your children (pretend a woman would have sex with you) in the process, that you would hold no animosity towards the US.

[Cytotoxic]

making enemies faster than they can be killed?

A statement that has never been backed by any evidence.

I think it was good to depose the Taliban and Saddam, but everything after that was a big mistake.

Now that is backed by lots of evidence.

[PH2050]

I blame Hollywood! lol

[Dweebston]

Just what are your practical and philosophical ideas about the size, scope, and proper role of government?

But to answer that is to assert the possibility that government has a proper size or should be limited to some extent, and even entertaining that thought is a bridge to far for most candidates. I can't recall the source, but I believe it was one of (Bill) Clinton's advisors who, when prompted by an interviewer, could not think of a single area of citizens' lives in which government should not be involved. That feeling is pervasive in government: their need not merely to steer the state on the seemingly illimitable issues in which it involves itself, but not even to admit of any horizon whatsoever.

They can't possible answer questions like this.

[Derpetologist]

There is not a single aspect of life that progs do not want to tax, regulate, mandate, subsidize, or outlaw.

At least Team Red has some overlap with libertarians:

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....-with.html

[straffinrun]

Half my family is Team Red, the other half Blue. I can have a discussion with the Red ones, but the Blue ones...fucking Christ. One brother who was full on Team Red at one point recently is moving towards Libertarianism. At age 50, I respect him for at least taking a look. The Team Red sisters are going full Sanders and Warren. IMO there is a sliver of hope that a conservative will change, and basically none that a team blue one will, unless it's for the worse.

[Cytotoxic]

I have managed to slowly convert an Obama-supporting friend of mine to...I hate to use this term...'left-libertarianism'. Lot of work but worth it.

[Dweebston]

I started out a fairly standard-issue progressive with (for some reason) a great deal of affection for Ayn Rand. I voted for Obama in '08 and the year of his inauguration began turning toward libertarianism. I was a confused twenty-something.

[Cytotoxic]

I voted for Obama in '08

*Puts branding iron in fire*

[Beautiful Bean Footage]

*Puts branding iron in fire*

You know who else branded his opponents?

[Agammamon]

So, this is all *your* fault.

[Derpetologist]

Well, this is the most ghastly thing I've seen in a long time. At least it was a clean cut:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=37b_1422444724

[PH2050]

Eh, idk I think burning that Jordanian pilot alive was more ghastly. Better a quick, relatively painless death than a slow, agonizing one, correct?

Of course, I'd rather not die at all.

/Lazarus Long

[Quincy, 12D]

I hate these people. I need mind bleach.

[Suthenboy]

I suppose you haven't seen the video footage from the human slaughterhouses being operated in Syria. Do yourself a favor and keep it that way.

[Derpetologist]

Saw it already....

[Dweebston]

How you people can stand to watch these things defies me. I'm not generally a squeamish person, but the thought of decapitation by knife can keep me up at night.

[Dweebston]

How you people can stand to watch these things defies me. I'm not generally a squeamish person, but the thought of decapitation by knife can keep me up at night.

[Derpetologist]

OT: I think the moon landing was very cool, but it is hard to justify as a libertarian. Thoughts?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Agreed. To do space cheaply, there needs to be profit motive.

I'm not sure how much pure science would get funded in libertopia? One of those dark places I dare not look. 😉

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Not a full libertarian, but I think it *could* be justified as a hearts-and-minds military operation vs. the USSR, not to mention the usefulness of getting experience in space for future military use. Should have been conducted under military auspices since there's no NASA clause in the constitution.

[Cytotoxic]

As an Objectivist ie more libertarian than libertarian, this might work.

[Agammamon]

Its not really possible to justify it at all as a libertarian.

[The Armchair Philosopher]

Hm. Could one make the case that a legitimate function of government is to chart and potentially claim new undeveloped land for future private use? I think that justifies some amount of investment in space exploration. It's not really that different from Thomas Jefferson commissioning Lewis and Clark.

[Quincy, 12D]

To make your brand cooler than communism, sure why not? If the commies are going to own the moon and the stars, America is irrelevant.

[Quincy, 12D]

I don't thread good.

[GILMORE]

I bet you're a great dancer though

[Mickey Rat]

The one who will promise to force people to associate with a group they do not approve of but Penn does?

[Loki]

Bernie fucking Sanders? Really? Just because he "expressed some ideas" doesn't mean those ideas are any good.

[ThomasD]

There is a fine line between libertarianism and socialism.

Finer than the line between clever and stupid.

[Butler T. Reynolds]

If by fine line you mean something like the Grand Canyon, then yes.

[William Pilgrim]

Miscreant norse gods are immediately suspect.

[american socialist]

"You'll never guess..."

Why is this surprising at all? Bernie is the real deal and better-- solely looking at him as a libertarian-- than any other candidate. Yes, much better than Golden Boy Wonder.

[toolkien]

Many years ago, I worked in a resort town. There was a very heavy young man you conducted chartered boat tours. He dropped well over a hundred pounds in a matter of months. He dropped dead of a heart attack a month later. You've got to go slow when losing weight.

[Tony G]

No one, not even Reason, has informed my own ethos of Libertarianism, than Penn Jillette.

Thank you Mr. Jillette

[Live Free or Die]

Among firm libertarians, Republicans are nearly always held to a higher standard than Democrats. Penn showed this tendency in his piece. He'd rather vote for a socialist than vote for a libertarian-leaning (just not far enough of a lean, apparently) Republican. I'd rather be discussing the extent of government vaccination waivers than whether or not to destroy the wealth of the 1%, abolish free speech for certain wealthy people, increase the size of the federal government, institute massive gun control, and turn us even further from capitalism.

[wsh38754]

Nathaniel . although Stephanie `s rep0rt is super... I just bought a top of the range Mercedes sincee geting a check for $4416 this last four weeks and would you believe, ten/k last-month . no-doubt about it, this really is the best-job I've ever done . I actually started seven months/ago and almost straight away started making a nice over $79.. p/h..... ?????? http://www.Jobs-Cash.com

[William Pilgrim]

How do we generate push for Nick Gillespie to host a Presidential debate?