Freddie Gray

Were the Cops in the Freddie Gray Case Charged Too Quickly or Too Much?

Law professors worry that fear of riots could compromise justice.


Office of the State's Attorney

This morning I noted that the dispute about whether Freddie Gray's knife was banned by a Baltimore ordinance will make it hard to prove that the officers who arrested him lacked probable cause and are therefore guilty of false imprisonment. Another count that Marilyn Mosby, the state's attorney for Baltimore, may have trouble with is the second-degree "depraved heart" murder charge against Officer Caesar Goodson, who drove the police van in which Gray was fatally injured. Mosby alleges that Gray "suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet, and unrestrained inside the BPD wagon." To convict Goodson of second-degree murder, which carries a maximum penalty of 30 years in prison, she has to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that his actions "created a very high risk" to Gray's life and that he acted "with extreme disregard" of that risk. That may be a stretch, even if she can show that Goodson deliberately gave Gray a rough ride, since such treatment rarely has fatal consequences.

Another charge Goodson faces, involuntary manslaughter, is easier to prove, since it includes deaths caused by negligence, an unlawful act (other than a felony), or failure to perform a legal duty. Based on Mosby's allegations, that charge, which carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison, also seems appropriate for Lt. Brian Rice, Officer William Porter, and Sgt. Alicia White, who are accused of repeatedly failing to belt Gray in and repeatedly failing to help him when it became clear he needed medical attention. Their alleged inaction may very well have amounted to negligence or failure to perform a legal duty.

In an interview with The Atlantic, University of Baltimore law professor David Jaros, a former criminal defense attorney who studies police abuse, says "it looks little bit like [Mosby] overreached" in charging Goodson with second-degree murder. But he adds that overcharging is a common, if regrettable, practice:

I love how surprised people are by the fact that a prosecutor may have overcharged. This is something prosecutors do all the time, as a strategic choice, for various reasons, and it's ironic that suddenly the [Fraternal Order of Police] is up in arms over this….

On a lower misdemeanor, they might throw in a charge of felony assault when it's really a misdemeanor assault, because they know that this going to go through a plea-bargaining process. It's also true that juries sometimes compromise, so if they're going to compromise, you stake out a strong position and then you settle for what you thought was appropriate in the first place.

Jaros also agrees it's reasonable to worry that Mosby—who filed charges just a day after police completed their investigation and who declared, in the wake of last week's rioting, "I heard your call for 'no justice, no peace'"—may have acted hastily for political reasons:

I think there are once again serious reasons to be concerned about the political pressure to come out quickly and charge very serious crimes because there was a very real interest in calming the city. We don't want those political interests to affect the prosecution of an individual defendant and their constitutional rights and what's going to happen to them. At the same time, that's what happens in tons of other cases.

To be clear: Jaros is not saying that politically motivated prosecutions or verdicts are good but rather that "we should have that concern in every case," not just in cases where the defendants are police officers.

Another defense attorney, Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, expresses similar concerns more forcefully in a Boston Globe op-ed piece:

No decision on charges should ever be made on the basis of satisfying the demands of demonstrators or under the threat of violent demonstrations. Crowd control is not a proper component of prosecutorial discretion and is inconsistent with due process. Prosecutorial discretion should be exercised on the basis of an objective application of the law to the facts and not on the basis of the impact it may have on the crowd….

No one can know for certain what motivated Mosby to charge six police officers with crimes ranging from second-degree murder to manslaughter to assault, in the unnecessary death of Freddie Gray. Perhaps she knows facts that justify these serious charges, though it is difficult to square her description of the timeline with the "depraved heart" murder charge against the driver of the van. But the appearance of crowd influence flows inexorably from her ill-chosen words, and the appearance of injustice must be avoided as studiously as the reality of injustice if our legal system is to maintain its credibility.

Dershowitz also worries that even if Mosby fails to prove her case, jurors who live in Baltimore will be reluctant to acquit the officers because they are afraid of provoking fresh riots. He considers that "a strong argument" for holding the trials elsewhere.

These are indeed valid concerns, although it is worth noting (as Jaros does) that in cases where police are accused of abuse the biases typically run in the opposite direction. Local prosecutors tend to be cozy with local police, and even when they decide to pursue charges they face jurors who are inclined to view cops as the good guys. Generally speaking, police officers get a much bigger benefit of the doubt than ordinary citizens do in our criminal justice system, which is one reason the charges Mosby announced were so startling. 

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  1. “various reasons, and it’s ironic that suddenly the [Fraternal Order of Police] is up in arms over this….”

    They’re playing their part in the theater of justice.

    1. I think I hear the world’s smallest violin playing in the orchestra pit.

  2. If I beat a man to death for no reason, how long can I expect to be on paid vacation before the prosecutor decides to charge me? Months? Years?

    1. Depends, how much are you paying your attorney?

      1. Hey, that’s what you civilian suckers are paying my union for.

    2. It depends. What kind of government job do you hold?

      1. “What kind of government job do you hold?”

        None, I work in the private sector. So what do I win? Months or Years? It’s one of those two right?

        1. So what do I win?

          Self respect?

  3. ” Generally speaking, police officers get a much bigger benefit of the doubt than ordinary citizens do in our criminal justice system”

    which should be a great consolation to cops in cases like this, where the mob is baying for blood and the prosecutors can reasonably suspected of catering to the mob.

    “Well, *other* cops get special treatment in their favor, so we’re kind of balancing it out by singling you out for *worse* treatment.”

    1. Disclaimer: They may be guilty as all hell, but if not, they still run a risk of being convicted.

      1. LOL!!!!

        Re-read the results of the Chicago cop trial of last week.

    2. Worse treatment? As if a civilian in this situation wouldn’t have been charged with murder 1. Piss off.

      1. I am glad to be corrected by someone who has reviewed the evidence. It is to such a person I presume I am speaking, because I know that someone with only a vague idea of the evidence would not be going around accusing other people of ignorance.

        1. It is far more important to make sure that the King’s men are at least held to the same standard as the Mundanes they daily arrest, beat, coerce, harass, rape and rob than it is to be worried about the mob baying for their blood.

          1. So you’re either for abusive cops or for the mob?

            It’s like Bush v. Gore all over again.

            1. So you don’t think there is a two-tiered system of justice?

              You think if I made a citizens arrest of questionable legality, beat the crap out of the guy, put him in the back of my van, and then drove around for a while instead of taking him right to the police station while he was injured and not seat belted and he just woopsy-daisy-like happened to be fatally injured when I finally decided to turn him over to the jailers, I wouldn’t be charged with a capital crime, and told that if I pled guilty I might get away with only 10 years of ass rape?

              1. “So you don’t think there is a two-tiered system of justice?”

                Wow, you sure refuted the GKC in your head who denied that the system generally shows favoritism toward cops!

                Of course, I was suggesting that maybe *in this particular instance* the favoritism seems to be going the other way, with the pressure from the mob and the media outweighing the usual counter-pressure from the FOPs and other establishment fixtures.

                Isn’t it possible to hold both views simultaneously in one’s head?

                1. I do actually believe they are being over charged. Just like a “civilian” would be. So ya. I guess you can hold both views. Sorry if I over reacted. I am drunk, afterall.

                  1. The system has all sorts of biases – usually this means a bias in favor of its own members, obviously. But there are circumstances when countervailing biases can come into effect – like a bias in favor of appeasing angry mobs – a very real bias, as we’re learning in so many contexts.

                    1. And yes, the cops could still be totally guilty.

                    2. still, in this case, the countervailing bias means they are getting treated just like I would get treated if I did the same thing and the DA didn’t like me. So my miniature violin is playing as loud as it can.

                    3. Don’t make me quote Martin Niem?ller.

                    4. don’t make me google Martin Niem?ller

                    5. You may know Niem?ller as the “first they came” guy –


                      as in “first they came for the crooked cops…”

                  2. “I am drunk, afterall.”

                    Naw, you just got downwind of AC when he was at his most sober – and you still got plastered.

                    1. holy crap. I just read down thread. The borg is in rare, yet awesome, form. I feel almost sober now.

          2. They should be held to a higher standard.

    3. the prosecutors can reasonably suspected of catering to the mob.

      The prosecutor can be reasonably suspected of PLAYING to the mob, but it sure seems like she’s CATERING to the PD.

  4. No one can know for certain what motivated Mosby to charge six police officers with crimes ranging from second-degree murder to manslaughter to assault, in the unnecessary death of Freddie Gray.

    This is from the Onion, right?

    1. Fatal injury while in custody? Being caught falsifying their reports?

    2. Fatal injury while in custody? Being caught falsifying their reports?

      1. I was guessing the dead body at the end of his statement.

        1. And her job description.

    3. Her motivation will be clear when she runs for mayor on the back of this (inevitably failed) prosecution. Her announcement of the charges doubled as the start of her campaign. Unfortunately, it’s now doubtful there’s any hope of knowing what actually happened, which officer(s) did what to the man to cause his death.

      It’s now a circus, and she’s handed plenty of talking points to anyone who wants to bury his head in the sand about the problem of police abuse.

      1. I don’t think it’ll completely fail.

        At the minimum, the HMFIC is guilty of manslaughter, just from the lack of a seat belt. Everything else is may be over-charging or gravy, depending on your view point.

  5. We don’t know he was injured in the wagon and she had been conducting her own investigation since the incident so charging right after she got the police report is not surprising.

    1. He just up ‘n died!

      1. Cry Freedom!

      2. +1 Mr. Bojangles

        1. After 50 years he still mourns….

  6. These are indeed valid concerns, although it is worth noting (as Jaros does) that in cases where police are accused of abuse the biases typically run in the opposite direction.

    That is because good help is always hard to find….

    I love how surprised people are by the fact that a prosecutor may have overcharged. This is something prosecutors do all the time, as a strategic choice[…]

    … or because they’re evil.

    “You stand here accused of murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, sexual assault, illegal sexual acts, bestiality, blasphemy and heresy. What say you regarding these charges?”
    “Uh… what? Bestiality? What’s that?”
    “You just entered a plea of guilty of all charges except bestiality. Bailiff, take him out to the yard to be shot tomorrow at dawn.”

  7. Dershowitz is correct. It’s obvious that she rushed to satisfy the mob. They even named some of the wrong people in the arrest warrants, leading police to go to homes of different people with similar names. What a circus.

    1. Yes, overcharged. But what prosecutor does not overcharge? I’ve never met one.

      1. As we learned from Illinois just last week, overcharging or undercharging doesn’t matter, just as long as the police defendants are not charged accurately.

        1. Surely that will set a precedent that people who get overcharged also get to walk, because justice and no, wait, I can’t even finish that.

          1. I believe the weird you were looking for is FYTW.

            1. *word

          2. Overcharging? You mean like airport bars do?

            Yeah, I am about to get on a plane.

            1. They’re cha

              1. Goddamn squirrels – I was gonna make a comment about the airport bars charging what the market will bear. A tightly controlled, government regulated market, which sells concessions to the highest bidder.

    2. Not merely satisfying the mob, but also keeping the mob from focusing on bigger and better targets.

      Like herself.

  8. Prosecutors routinely overcharge citizens, and law professors do not flock to the parapets to protest. I am trying to be optimistic about this one, for some reason. Charges can be amended prior to trial, can they not? How can the driver NOT be charged with depraved indifference? Just because he failed to kill any of his other victims? That’s ridiculous.

    1. Actually, Dershowitz has. He called out the prosecutor in the Zimmerman case, as well as others recently.

      1. Hell, he defended Claus von Bulow.

        1. +1 Reversal of Fortune

          1. Ron Silver’s best film.

          2. Ron Silver’s best film.

        2. My wife was actually best friends with the von Bulow daughter, when they were both in grade school, long before the Mom went into the coma. She often sat for meals with the whole family and said Klaus was always very kind to her. When the trouble started the von Bulow kid dropped out of school and she never saw her again.

    2. How can the driver NOT be charged with depraved indifference?

      Because you can’t reasonably expect the types of injuries typically sustained in a “rough ride” to be fatal.

      Firing a gun into a crowd, driving on a sidewalk, tossing a car battery off a skyscraper – you can expect death to result. “Rough rides” usually result in bumps and bruises.

      1. “Nickel rides” are depraved indifference even when no one is killed. I don’t give the tiniest fuck if their police brutality wasn’t usually fatal but was this time. It’s still disgusting.

        1. But we still don’t know for sure if a rough ride even happened, or if it was the cause of his injuries. There was another guy in the other half of the van who doesn’t seem to have been injured at all.

          1. Uh huh. Perfectly healthy guy goes into a van. When he comes out, his spine is nearly severed. Even if there is a non-malicious explanation for it, I don’t give a shit. If you as a cab driver delivered your fare to their destination with a severed spine, would you expect to not be investigated as to what happened? So what about when cops are literally abducting people on the street for running from them and possibly even giving “nickel rides”? Have they no need to feel that their actions can be scrutinized, especially when somehow a guy got his spine severed and died?!? In their care?!?

            1. Forget it, Epi, it’s Papayatown.

              1. Papayatown is scary place where people don’t jump to conclusions based on shreds of evidence and political leanings… where people are considered innocent until all the facts come out…. *shudder*

                1. Papayatown is scary place where people don’t jump to conclusions based on shreds of evidence and political leanings

                  BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA unless the subject is Muslims, Mexicans, or any of your other insane fixations. Then’s it’s pants-pissing hysteria ahoy!

                  1. Calm down, kid. You’re the hysterical one around here.

                    1. Er ma gurd tweets gonna kills us.

                    2. dude, take a deep breath, and realize what he’s saying is that “there are lots of retards saying crazy shit on the internet”, and he wants more funding. because more funding. omg need funding.

                      this is the FBI that routinely foils potential ‘terror attacks’ by handing out copies of the anarchist cookbook, then busting people who take them for “conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction”

                    3. If it wasn’t so amusing to watch him melt down I would have already added him to my block list.

                      “Dey took r jerbs”
                      and now
                      “Er ma gurd tweets gonna kill us”

                      He is incapable of having a discussion with anyone with an opposing viewpoint without portraying them as sub humans. Watching some of the otherwise rational people around here kiss his ass boggles the mind.

                    4. True, that could be a motive, but that doesn’t mean the statement is untrue. I think it’s accurate and somewhat worrisome that there are lots of pro-jihad messages in the US. The “Oh, it’s just people talking” dismissal is small comfort.

            2. AFAIK, the “spine nearly severed” detail comes only from an attorney for Gray’s family. There always seems to be a lot of early bad information regarding these political hot-button cases. Remember what many people thought they knew for sure about Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown? Remember the b.s. from their family attorneys?

              Of course the death is suspicious and they should investigate. I’m not defending or excusing the cops involved, I’m just withholding judgment until more facts come out.

              1. Why don’t we hear about the arresting cop and lead officer in the case, the one Freddie Gray ran from? The police Lt. has a record of involuntary civil commitment, having his duty and personal weapons confiscated, threatening family members and a fellow officer with a firearm,suicide threats and a bunch of unknown other shit that is redacted or sealed based on “personnel rules, union rules and medical privacy”.

      2. “…you can’t reasonably expect the types of injuries typically sustained in a “rough ride” to be fatal….”

        Sound like exactly the sort of thing a jury of your peers should decide.

        1. Doesn’t this follow the “thin skull” doctrine that says you are responsible even if injury was unlikely?

          If a prisoner who had thin, brittle bones was taken on a rough ride which caused a broken neck, wouldn’t the cops be responsible?

          Or is there an exception for cops?

      3. The fuck you say. I had a friend get a concussion from the car hittingone rock. Rough rides can result in serious injuries. And why was the ride “rough” to begin with? Cops should be trained in avoiding those type of injuries.

  9. may have acted hastily for political reasons

    See this? It’s my Shocked Face.

    I have confidence that she’ll blow this case.

    1. I believe she has confidence she’ll blow this case.

      1. It’s the only smart move (unfortunately). She gets cred with the populace for bringing the charges (and therefore possibly starting a political career), and then when she blows the case she can go to the police union and go “I botched that on purpose. I have your support now, right?”

        She wins both ways in that case. I can’t see her doing anything else unless she actually has integrity. You can stop laughing now. Really. Stop it!

    2. Yeah, she has no idea what she’s doing. She’s definitely going to lose it.

      1. Actually, she may. Blow the case, then accuse the police department of sabotaging it. Ride that all the way to the mayorship.

  10. But the appearance of crowd influence flows inexorably from her ill-chosen words, and the appearance of injustice must be avoided as studiously as the reality of injustice if our legal system is to maintain its credibility.

    Yeah, right. Get back to me when those cops have been executed without trial.

    1. Is that you Robespierre?

      1. No, sounds more like Nat Turner or Chief Black Kettle or Patrick Henry.

      2. Didn’t all the people he executed have a trial? Cacking people in a secret place sans trial is more of an Argentinian junta thing.

    2. You mean like they constantly execute without trial or even probable cause.

      1. You Know Who Else used the brutality of their opponents to excuse their own brutality?

        1. Seahawks fans?

  11. I believe her office had been conducting its own inquiries. Maybe she found the official police report so laughably (and insultingly) preposterous she decided to send them a message.

  12. Crowd control is not a proper component of prosecutorial discretion and is inconsistent with due process.

    Is Dershowitz not aware that the job of “prosecutor” is a political job?

    A prosecutor, being a politician at heart, will do whatever she thinks is best for her political career at the moment she makes a decision. It could turn out to be a horribly bad choice for her political career in a matter of hours, or a matter of weeks, but it is always a politically-motivated decision. Due Process is an afterthought if it is a thought at all.

    1. Yes, but they are not supposed to. At least in PA prosecutors have several ethical obligations above and beyond regular attorneys. Of course, Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line, so who know what applies there.

      1. I believe Maryland is the same: it’s unethical for a prosecutor to act for political (“crowd control”) reasons.

        1. They also take an oath to support and defend the constitution….

      2. Especially, in PA, when a former policeman is the judge.

        1. Prosecutor: “What did the policeman say?”
          My brother: He said “Fuck you”.
          Judge: “Do I have to remind you that you’re under oath?”

  13. jurors who live in Baltimore will be reluctant to acquit the officers

    No option for bench trial?

    1. The defense could stipulate to a bench trial but the prosecution can’t forced one.

      1. Force. Not forced. Fuck.

        1. The prosecution could easily fuck one.

  14. Local prosecutors tend to be cozy with local police, and even when they decide to pursue charges they face jurors who are inclined to view cops as the good guys.

    Orange County DA Tony Rackauckas didn’t seem to pull any punches in his offices’ prosecution of of the POs involved in the beating-to-death of Kelly Thomas. Rackaukas was a guest on the local John & Ken radio show when he was specifically asked whether or not he’d put the first string in the courtroom to prosecute the case. “Yes”, and he did, AKIK.

    It is possible for a DA to do everything right and still come up empty. Why is that?

    1. There are a lot of submissives out there who have utter faith in cops.

      1. For argument’s sake, there are a lot taxpayers (and jurors) who don’t want to end up being the defendant to a lawsuit against themselves. So what if the cops who beat Kelly Thomas to death (this is uncontroversial) were found guilty on murder and other crimes. Next would be a civil lawsuit with the City of Fullerton and its taxpayers on the hook. The cops are screwed, but they are not on a financial hook.

      2. Show me someone who has utter faith in cops, and I’ll show you someone who has never been the victim of a crime.

        Thing is, what I would call “real crime” is really low in this country. If criminal law was limited to crimes with actual victims, cops would have to fight for their jobs.

        1. “Next pair into the Thunderdome.”

        2. I agree with that, sarcasmic. Being a cop should be one of the most noble professions. The drug war has completely turned that on its head, and now cops are the bad guys. How fucked up is that.

    2. The nature of the system( better to let ten guilty men go free blah blah blah) + the deference that many people still inexplicably have for cops+ a shit load of uniform cops staring down the jury during trial.

  15. Not to mention her mentor is the attorney for the Grey family. Any defense lawyer worth a damn will latch on to that.

  16. Whatever happens, it won’t be justice. But then again, justice hasn’t happened in Baltimore for a long time.

  17. Neither, they weren’t charged quickly enough or harshly enough… Premeditated murder is a capital offense. The fact that the feral scum are escaping the death penalty just shows there is one rule for the cops and quite another for the peons.

    The so called “justice” system is a farce and only believed in by the mentally challenged.

    1. Maryland doesn’t have capital punishment, smart guy.

      1. Maryland doesn’t have “legal” capital punishment.

    2. As much of a cop-hater as I am, and as little respect as I have for the people who seek out that profession, I wouldn’t call this premeditated murder.

      You must remember that depraved indifference is a requirement for the job. They don’t plan to kill people. They just don’t care.

  18. I feel sorry for cops across the country who, because of the debacle in Ferguson, are now on notice that prosecutors will be somewhat more aggressive and speedy in charging them when it seems like they murdered people. Victims of political necessity, man that sucks. I feel sorry for anyone who has the misfortune of interacting with state law enforcement.

    1. I feel sorry for anyone who reads anything you write.

    2. Noted and approved. But, Tony, my love. How does this square with your Marxist appreciation of unions? Police unions may be at their height of power at this time in the open society. Very few unions enjoy what the police lobby enjoys. It is literally mafia orgasmico over parmesean and slivers of olive-oil roasted egg-plant, man.

      1. Well, fuck you and other libertarians who are attempting to parlay this issue into one of your corporate cocksucking fixations. That’s what I think of that.

        You did this. You are your fellow corporate cocksucking travelers insisted that lowering taxes was the absolute most urgent matter of basic justice in the universe. For that we get local and state governments getting funds by adopting a policy of police harassment and shakedowns. The way cops behave is exactly how you’d expect if something went awry in motivations for determining their role in society. Cop unions protect cops. What a fucking revelation.

        1. Jesus you’re pathetic. It’s all the mean libertarians fault for making prog governments in prog cities enact policies they really didn’t want.

          1. Libertarians will remain completely useless so long as they are distracted from all the many real problems of injustice and government abuse in this country because a fat man has polluted their little brains with the notion that the only real problem is “progs” and unions and the other enemies of the corporate parasites pulling their puppet strings.

            1. If you think libertarians don’t raise hell about police and government abuse then you’re abjectly retarded. Also, you do realize you don’t have to buy things from people you hate right?

              1. You just blamed “progs” for this problem–a ludicrous notion. Others are escaping to their irrelevant anti-union bullshit. That’s when most of the peasants can’t help but blame the black victims, because, you know. C- for cop hate. If you don’t know what the underlying problems are, then what use is it?

            2. In other words you’ve come up short. Your taking points re: the progressive utopia that is inner-city Baltimore are just mewling pathetically about Trotskies in your midst. The day Tony finally ran out of excuses. This is beautiful, I need a moment.

              1. So epic. I may rub one out to this.

            3. Leave Chris Christie out of this.

              1. Tony lay off the grain alcohol will you?

        2. Shorter Tony: “Baltimore is a shithole because taxes there are too low!” Yeah, right.

          1. It’s indisputably a major reason my state is a corrupt police state.

            1. Just what do you think more revenue would solve? More handouts? More dependence? Finally, after all these years, fully tearing apart the social fabric so that those malleable poor people you’ve propped up all these years on the backs of taxpayers might be rebuilt in the mold of the perfect progressive foot soldier, the new man of Tony’s socialist empire?

              Or maybe bumping up by a few percentage points the bennies your public sector unions enjoy, which of course is where additional revenue will go.

            2. Like libertarians destroyed Detroit.

              1. May as well have! Apparently, withholding heroin from an addict would make you an accessory to murder if the withdrawals kill him. By Tony’s logic your moral obligation is to stick in the needle for him.

                1. withholding heroin from an addict would make you an accessory to murder if the withdrawals kill him.

                  Jacob Sullum?

            3. So high taxes have prevented Illinois and Maryland and New York from being “corrupt police states”?

              1. This.

                As a resident of Illinois who pays property tax in Chicago, we pay a ridiculous amount in taxes but yet the cops are still assholes.

                Die in a ficuking fire, Tony

                1. *fucking

            4. It’s indisputably a major reason my state is a corrupt police state.

              When I lived there there was an income tax+a sales tax that between the state, Tulsa city and county totaled~9% on everything incl. food and clothing. I world hardly call that too low.

              1. And yet it’s never enough. Nor will it ever be. They’ll have burned down the city around themselves, empty of either businesses or residents, all the while continuing to insist they couldn’t afford to supply basic social services.

            5. His position is: if we don’t get to steal your money the “nice and clean way” with the IRS backed up with guns, the cops will steal from you the “hard way” backed up with guns. Because, like, society neeeeds to steal your shit, maaaan

            6. Goddamn Kulak wreckers!

        3. Cops in this quasi sorta free example of whateva the fuck are just following the tune of the nkvd; The purist amaze government prototypical socialist gun giants. Unionists buckling on guns and torture under communist/socialist regimes since the Bolsheviks had no capitalist to blame, love.

          1. Well, we do.

            1. Your F.O.P. can’t fucking set a better example of improved interaction with fucking humans because of some whore capitalists? Are you fucking serious, Tony?

              Your unionized motherfuckers with the guns have the BEST and most OPTIMAL opportunity to show the rest of the America that the BEST can be experienced around progressive collective culture. YET. It is a fucking total fail- across the goddam board. And I’m not even anti-fucking-union. I’m anti-fucking massive government structures without boundaries, account-fuck-abilities, and intellectual empathy.

    3. Just when I thought I couldn’t have any less respect for you, you out yourself as a cop sucker.

      1. How can you have any more or less respect for a sockpuppet? It’s not a real person, just an act. That’s like losing respect for Moe Szyslak.

        1. I’ve actually wondered if Tony and Buttplug aren’t just Nick and Matt trying to drive up page views by engaging in the most vapid and mendacious arguments possible to bait the commentariat into replying.

          1. It’s a better theory than thinking they’re actual people, that’s for sure.

            1. I can’t believe what I just read from Tony. He has to be a joke because no one this vile and stupid could exist.

      2. Um, no. Reforming our corrupt criminal so-called justice system is literally number two on my political priorities list.

        1. literally number two

          Like the poopy in your pants?

        2. Love to hear some substantial suggestions for reform. Cause chanting “systemic racism” without touching entrenched union privileges ain’t gonna change shit.

  19. The constitution sucks: Epic fail. F.O.P. shit-rag. Politician jizz napkin. Everyday American booger flick.

    Soldier, come unto my American army to fight for all ‘we hold dear’. While I fucking gigantic laugh blizzard lightning fails right into your fucking dumb young face. Grow your fucking brain zest. Get killed and maimed for all we ‘hold dear’? An America of ‘all we hold dear’ where the constitution and bill of rights is being treated to an array of torturous bendings and breakings? Where analogous devices flown in from darkened ages afflict the legend of liberty into birthing the deflated and bowing subject? Where law is ruled and snapped like a jagged edge against the resisting and deviant? Where even conservative minds (Fuck you, you miserable spit cannon, Levin) fly into rages blinded by their fucking blood-infused hatred of classes they fail to comprehend?

    Fuck it. The constitution is maligned and misappropriated and misinterpreted and mis-everything. Fuck it all.

    Praise Jesus and the cops. Both can rot in hell, bitches.

    1. Please. Tell us how you really feel.

      And will you please provide a link where I may subscribe to your newsletter?

      1. Shut up. You know I love your sarcastic motherfucking daddy ass.

        1. Tell him how big your boobs are.

          1. My boobs are sinew with tiny hairless nipples. Taut at this moment since Doyers triggers my sensuality. Just a moment of reflection, nigga.

  20. Not to worry. The bootlickers on the jury won’t convict. And why does spellcheck not get bootlickers?

    1. Spellcheque sucks, nigga. It’s ok. Smash the pedants with your fucking comment chub right in the fucking cheeks. Pedants are cool until they move their fucking fingertips on the clacker board.

      1. Wow, acid time came early tonite. Yay.

  21. Chris Cuomo fucked up so bad regarding the Constitution that both Salon and Vox made fun of him.

    This is hilarious. A liberal has to really shit all over himself for Salon and Ezra’s Idiots to take notice.

    1. There’s something special about seeing Vox make fun of anyone. They’re like the dumbest, dorkiest kid in the playground finally finding someone they can pick on.

      1. And by mocking a Democrat now, they can claim to be non-biased later on, when they go all-out for Hillary.

      2. All Leftist and rightist rags have slim edges that are appropriate to the Libertarian math, man. Even Vox. The bizarre thing about resembling whatever the fuck a Libertarian is is that a lot of rags have these smarmy shitty bullshit pluggings that are fucking rooted in political faiths. “We must trust the special arm of the councils”, cry the left and right-winging lostalicons. Lost people. These are the lostalicons. Lostalicons flow from the right and left. The right consists of the supra-religious conservative DECRYING a country headed into the goddamned ABYSS of moral decay and the left consists of the supra-skeered progressive worried that the universe is going to smash their fucking bodies with UV rays because sumbitch burnt some garbage in the backyard.

          1. Brutha, I am fucking trying to behave in this stilted universe, man. I love the minds here and the 12 Dimension of the q.

            1. *fist bump*

              Chewing mad nicotine gum dayside, succumbing to the unhealthful particulates nightside. Wiki tells me tells me to give that shit up if ever want to shit again proudly.

        1. whatever the fuck a Libertarian is

          Ah, AC is not a libertarian.

          1. Winds of the stones, I breath familiar ghosts. The giants oaken knights of the templed valleys and flagged cities brimming with those seeking ships into the great starry beyound draw me. So, I sit on this rocket port this eve with friends because I am drawn to the binary deviants of a listless world. My fucking limbs are found nowhere else at this moment. Am I a libertarian? I am the light and silken and barely noticeable shadow of all libertarians. A lover of the fighting freedoms. A cherokee ninja flitting amoungst the verbs and nouns and adjectives.

            1. A man is a libertarian the damascus moment he realizes the “fatal conceit” is indeed fatal to all he knows and loves. And that includes the stars and planets.

        2. That was almost HERCULEAN in it’s almost-but-not-quite understantability.

          Almost. I think I actually understood it. But still. Pretty close.

    2. I hope Judge Napolitano comments, I’d like to see his take.
      The best thing about the Cuomo shitshow was the blatant lies.

  22. OT: The Guardian always asks the important questions: How can our future Mars colonies be free of sexism and racism?

    1. Easy, they just need a political officer along.

      Ironically, that actually somewhat reflects a plotline in Neal Asher’s The Owner series. The Mars research colony of course has a political officer and political goons to maintain control (Asher is virulently anti-government in this series and really rips into where a lot of government is headed; it’s not pretty).

      1. The real answer is: Leave the airlock open.

        1. Nuke the site from orbit.

          1. It’s the only way to be sure.

        2. I’m sorry, Dave. I can’t do that.

    2. And to think the Granudain used to be a classical liberal paper.

    3. Let’s ask the authority:

      Randomly assigning genders to rocks so Mars can pass the Bechdel Test.

    4. I like sexism and racism. I love it when women want to fuck me in the ass with a black dildo and then smack my fucking face with a white one.

      1. +1 Spitroast!

    5. Nobody but gay white dudes allowed.

  23. A Hillary victory means the full Argentinization of America. Discuss.

    1. Winding stones of the ton villages, a Hillary victory can be absorbed easily in this fucking thing called America. Hillary will not fuck with as much as the Windstorms of Stonages thinks. Hillary will be irritating. Constantly defensive. But she won’t fuck with shit as much we all think. Carter will have been far worse. Hillary understands big business and her own shiny controllable pool of knee-jerking fucktarts on the climate side. She isn’t great for fucking goddamn America but Ben fucking Carson is way worse and so is Huckabee.

      1. Carter will have been far worse.

        Carter was only “good” because Ted Kennedy hated him.

        1. Microbrewing? Deregulated airlines and trucking? Carter did his bit to unleash the better parts of the present.

          1. No I meant that Ted Kennedy prevented him from enacting the worse parts of his agenda because Ted thought they were not leftist enough.

            1. Ah. I understand. Another reason to hate politics Kennedys.

    2. Pretty much. A few more leftists on the Supreme Court, and they’ll discover the Communist Manifesto has been hiding, previously unnoticed, in some penumbra or other.

      1. I believe that all of the stated goals of the American Communist Party, upon their founding, have been implemented already.

        1. The American Communist Party has endorsed every Democratic nominee since 1988.

        2. I’ve read the 1928 Socialist Party platform, and that one is mostly in place.

      2. The Dems have pretty openly come against Free Speech (even Widen and Sanders wanted to change the First Amendment) and it only one more SCOTUS justice before the first and second are a dead letter.

      3. Also the MSM will ensure that Hillary will get away with whatever corrupt authoritarian action. And in a couple of years Reason will gushing over her like Bill.

      4. And Welch and Gillespie will be eager to be a modern Wilhelm K?lz.

        1. Already reverting to being a tendentious cunt?

          1. Say Hi to Rachel for me.

            1. Why?

              1. Alberta’s libertarian moment.

                1. Not yet it isn’t, but it will transmit from America to Canada no doubt.

                  You just responded to being called a tedious cunt by being a tedious cunt.

    3. “A Hillary victory means the full Argentinization of America. Discuss’

      I think the US is too big to really “Argentinize”

      but i do think if she wins, Hillary will have some political enemies murdered *just because she can*

      in that sense, yes.

      1. Being elected on the basis of her Husband, certainly.

  24. Holy shit balls. Did I just read from Tony that this is all the libertarian’s fault?

    Holy shit. Libertarians have been at the forefront fighting police and judicial corruption. For fuck sakes Reason Magazine and Hit/Run have a shit ton of exposes on how the criminal justice system is fucking over the common man and you have the audacity to blame this on us?

    You are a partisan hack of the highest order.

    1. It’s a sockpuppet. It’s a character designed to drive people here into foaming at the mouth frenzies of outrage at how horrible and stupid it is. It’s not a real person. Don’t waste your time.

      1. Yeah. After tonight’s statement no one should deal with him. He’s dishonest and argues in bad faith.

        1. I had to laugh.

          There are no actual tax cuts, but us calling for them has caused police forces to behave in a barbaric manner. It is all our fault.

          Nice. Sometimes the piece of shit is mildly entertaining.

    2. I rescind any kudos you may deserve for being observant of the abuses of the criminal justice system in this country because your economic policies are a direct causal factor in those abuses.





        Someone should create an app that replaces all of Tony’s posts with “I am incapable of rational argument and my brain stopped evolving in the 7th grade.” It would hardly change anything since that’s what I get out of them anyway.

        It’s like reading a Leninist tract from 1915 only the writing is worse and Tony knows less about history and literature than Uncle Vlad did.

        1. Leninist tract

          And Lenin hated the cops, army and bureaucracy, until he came to power that is.

      2. Right tony. Libertarian economic policies, running the country.

        You need a glass of milk before beddy bye tony.

        1. Especially in Baltimore. Nothing says ‘economically libertarian’ like the Democratic Party that controls every seat on the city council.

          1. Tony just made remember this: The Typical Libertarian is hated by conservatives because he wants the freedom to snort coke off a teenaged hookers ass while smoking pot and watching a movie full of boobies and cuss words in preparation for sodomizing his illegal immigrant housekeeper, Carlos. The Typical Libertarian also wants criminals, terrorists and Mexicans to roam freely about causing all manner of social chaos, and has no interest in forcing people to love Jesus Christ. The Typical Libertarian is a traitor to the GOP and America because he failed to support the war in Iraq, the PATRIOT Act, the Stimulus, and both Bush and McCain, despite the fact that both men once said something at a cocktail party about maybe possibly lowering taxes on some people some day.

            1. The Typical Libertarian is hated by liberals because he is a crypto-archconservative who wants poor people to go without education, medical care, police protection, food, shelter, and oxygen. The Typical Libertarian spends his weekends running down endangered species in his monstrous, gas-guzzling SUV before stopping off to smoke a pack of cigarettes in a daycare. The Typical Libertarian wants the world to be run by unaccountable multinational conglomerates instead of unaccountable governments. The Typical Libertarian is a racist, sexist, profit-driven nihilist who failed to mark the ascendance of the Chosen One, and has never protested for Union rights nor worn a T-shirt with the word Darfur on it.

              Despite clinging to a hopelessly unworkable, idealistic and marginal political philosophy, the Typical Libertarian has recently been discovered as the cause for the downfall of Western Civilization.

  25. I know we often complain that Tony doesn’t show up for the slam-dunk cases and only inhabits threads for which he’s gotten the memo from DU, but watching him try to wing it tonight is just sad.

    1. Tony reminds me of the idiotic assholes who blame the Republican Party and the evil rich for ruining Illinois despite Illinois being dominated by the Democrats since 1996.

      1. Tony has more sense than that, barely. Tony’s blaming wreckers and saboteurs who, evidently, render useless the terribly inept Democrat-dominated urban landscape.

        1. Also he implied that libertarians are lackeys of Rush Limbaugh. Very Shriek/Bo-like arguing.

        2. I live in Chicago and the taxes are high there but yet the cops are still assholes.

  26. Holy crap. I missed a good day. Abolishing the family, hate speech isn’t free speech, The Hildebeast, plenty of Tony and shreek retardedness, secret police forces and Obumbles mastery of the empty phrase.

    Damn work.

    I especially like the two turdknockers who want to abolish the family. That is the finest example of demoralization I have ever seen. Turning reality and common sense completely on their heads and inside out. Someone should laugh at them and then kick their fucking teeth out.

    1. I think you just nominated yourself official H&R recap guy.

  27. Interesting back in 1989 many libertarians thought the Left was seeing sense after the Fall of Communism. However almost 30 years later I’m not seeing that.

    1. There are too many people now who were not even born when the USSR fell. Peru elected a communist for president and he totally fucked everything up, I mean created a real clusterfuck of epic proportion. Then he sat out and waited 20+ years and ran again. Most of the voters were not alive when he was in the first time and the rest forgot, so, he won again. I am too lazy to look him up.

      As for the left ever seeing sense, thats not going to happen.

      1. “As for the left ever seeing sense, thats not going to happen”

        The justification in voting for free shit takes very little self-delusion. And most lefties have far more than enough.

      2. As for the left ever seeing sense, thats not going to happen.

        A lot of libertarians seem to think that the left has “sold-out” on war and civil liberties. Which is bullshit since they only had those views as a means to gain power. Need I point out that the “Left” originally referred to the likes of the Jacobins and enrages who supported war and the executions of the their opponents?

      3. To be fair, the guy who the Peruvians re-elected changed. He’s so pro-capitalist he’s alienated his leftist family.

    2. After the fall of communism, pretty much everyone agreed that all forms of socialism had been an abominable failure. Then every country fell all over itself to move in that direction.

      1. And then we had the 2008 melt-down which proved the ‘free market’ was a failure!
        (After the market had been distorted beyond recognition by gov’t fuck ups, but no one on the left wants to admit that. Hey, we were down ten runs with two out in the bottom of the ninth, and the vaunted ‘free market’ didn’t save our ass!)

      2. Every country? Hardly. Canada moved away from socialism and so did much of Latin America. Things went sideways in the 2000s. The Great Recession arrested the statist degeneration and now we’re in a weird limbo.

    3. “nteresting back in 1989 many libertarians thought the Left was seeing sense after the Fall of Communism. However almost 30 years later I’m not seeing that.”

      I was 15 when communism fell. I wasn’t so much ‘libertarian’ as, “really trying to get to 3rd base with Sasha”

      Who do you mean, specifically? Reason?

      1. Reason, Rockwell, Left-Libertarians.

        1. Reason was also hopeful that Obama would be the aisle-crossing saviour who would potentially bring about a newer, saner political era.

          I know, right?

          But if you’d prefer a violently cynical mag that was a reverse mirror image of Salon – basically, nonstop partisan vituperation – i’m sure there’s one out there somewhere. They will probably always err on the side of always believing we’re on the cusp of the Libertarian Moment. Its a story that keeps on giving.

          1. There’s optimism and then there’s delusion. Assuming that they actually believe in the “libertarian moment is upon us” stuff. Has Gillespie even seen Anchorman 2?

            Also the “libertarian moment” strikes me as the libertarian equivalent of the Marxist “inevitability of history”.

            1. If you can’t see that the Libertarian Moment dawning then you’re willfully blind.

              1. So Notley will become a libertarian now?

                1. Probably before you stop being a tedious tendentious cunt yes.

          2. violently cynical mag

            Explain the presence of the people then?


     was founded in 1995 by writer Joey Anuff and editor Carl Steadman who created daily comically cynical commentary with a self-obsessed and satiric edge.

              Regular columns[edit]
              Hit & Run ? A link-driven summary of recent events

              1. Have I mentioned how much I hold Tim Cavanaugh in disdain lately?

                1. What has he done?

                  1. What has he done?

                    To you? Probably nothing. To me? Get under my fucking skin with his ignorance coupled with the inanity of his prose.

                    Sloopy likes him, though.

                2. And what happened to Michael C. Moynihan? Did he turn neocon?

                  1. And what happened to Michael C. Moynihan?

                    He’s writing for VICE now.

            2. Reason is sometimes comically-cynical

              Salon isn’t even trying to be funny (though i find them hilarious) I mean, just browse their headlines.

              My point was that Reason is not going to turn into a dour, serious, political sourpuss of weeping and moaning, because there’s just way too much of that out there already.

  28. OT =

    a moment ago someone called Hillary a ‘corporatist shill’.

    I asked them what they meant and they said, “ugh! Google it.”

    i mean, really.

    1. Did you ask them if they had googled it themselves yet?

      1. I’m trying to be more polite lately. Its not working. (or i’m just terrible at it)

        I again asked for an example, after pointing out that Hillary’s most recent activity was “opposition to the TPP” – hardly “corporatist” as i understand it – and they went off on the below tizzy =

        “because politicians never change their positions and contradict their past behavior when it suits their campaign prospects. yeah that is so odd and unusual, why would she conveniently veer left all of a sudden if she wasnt genuine about it? what could she possibly gain from that other than the largest voting demographic in the country? youre fucking retarded mate, whatever your alleged “profession” is is irrelevant . do your own research on her. the woman is a sellout, its on tape, she is not presidential material like her husband was. so which word is it you dont understand? do i need to define shill for you, corporatist? or both? im telling you man google is your best friend for these sorts of brain farts.?”

        1. I mean this person isn’t wrong about Hillary. But they also seem like a dumbass who uses a term that they don’t even know the definition of. So, your average jerkoff.

          1. Yes, you’re right.

            I think my problem is that i want to see the world through their eyes, and get them to explain why they think “more left” than hillary is *more appealing*.

            I used to have a better grip on the ‘generally unaware of the world, prog mindset’ – now i feel like a spaceman trying to interact with aliens.

            1. I know what you mean. If you try talking to them, you come away realizing this is about something entirely different than the actual politics and policies involved. It’s…personal. Emotional. Utterly irrational. The players and TEAMs and policy issues are all just stand-ins for something else in their psyche.

              It’s pretty creepy.

    2. If that was mtrueman, that’s the best cite you’ll ever get.

    3. The Dems are not happy with the Hildebeast. I suspect in their hearts they feel she is not far left enough for them despite her windsock statements to that effect. I don’t think they believe her. They want Warren and I hear that moves are being made in that direction. This despite Warren being just as much of a lying con and ‘corporatist shill’ as Cankles.

      God, the left really doesn’t have anyone that is not an absolutely horrible person.

      1. That seems to be where this particular cad is coming from.

        But calling her ‘corporatist shill’… i wondered = what do they even mean by that?

        Is she out breaking ground on new Walmart locations in the Alaskan Wildlife Preserve? Is she insisting that we deregulate the pharma industry and allow drug testing on prisoners? Is she doing Coke Commercials on the campaign trail? I simply don’t know what these people consider “shilling” when it comes to Hillary. last i checked.

        1. He probably means that she engages in cronyism. He is right.

          Most lefties can’t distinguish between the free market and cronyism. They also have no idea what capitalism is or what corporations are.

  29. 5PM EST and no other posts? Pathetic. We need a “How Republicans can learn from Wade MacLauchlan” article from Gillespie.

    1. “How Republicans can learn.”

      If that were possible it would have already happened.

      1. They’ve learned how to win elections after defeats, pretty much.

    2. Is this cat Libertarian?

      1. “Bedtime stories of ‘Don’t let the Bedbugs bite’ normalize the surveillance state” by Anthony Fisher.

        “Libertarian era is dawning because Libertarians are like Buckley’s” by Nick Gillespie

        “Is it Ethical to Break the Warp Barrier and De-evolve into Giant Horny Salamanders?” by Ron Bailey.

        “Does Pot cure Ebola?” by Jacob Sullum.

        1. “If Obama become a dictator and passed Immigration Reform I would approve.”

          “Wars in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan and Libya all caused Immigration, are they wrong?”

          “Bobby Jindal is an apostate”

          All by Shikha Dalmia.

          1. Finebola. Fuck Windstorms.

            Verse by Windstroms

            “The Lord wants to suck my dick in high school and I want him to pay me a box of orange push pops and he won’t and I’m pissed off”

            “I lost my box of old squirrels. They were dead and that fucking retard down the goddamn street stole my fucking squirrles but he owns brass knickles so I will be a pussy and not get my box of old squirrels”

            “I graduated high school under a curse from the street of midgets. My Windstromalorious penis was orange forever until I got a goddamn jesus chick to suck all the orange out”

            Just saying, nigs.

            1. Trying too hard to be incoherent. C+

              1. I live in the second, nigga, Grades are for elementaries, lover.

          2. Did you watch that cat? That cat was awesome!

  30. What makes an asshole American? Is American an appropriatus term? Is this thing American a codified distinct thing? What the FUCK is an American aside from all the fucking skeletons lined with skin mesh in all the cities?

    1. Why are all our millions of bones pure analogy for shit that scurried on the intellectual giant minds a few thousand months ago?

    2. I am foreign born, Cy. I watched the brand on the TV, I did my best to read the creed. I am here now amid the glory of what the fuck is going on. I have an anthem in my heart. I hope somebody sings.

      1. Your throat is throbbing the fucktunes like a ghetto wharf ocean slapping fuckin mountains and oceans on the living arenas, man… your antlers are moose god bull ivory ufo. Man. I think that is a god ivory. Period. the sky turned purple and you smashed onto the planet with various angles and spectrums and none of that is describaliziouso.

        1. A new song is all I want to hear. America is greater than who will best tweak the the tax code come ’16.

  31. What no one has noticed is the prosecutor charged some of the police with false arrest because the knife was legal under Maryland law. If the knife was illegal under Baltimore law, couldn’t she be charged with the same thing because she arrested the police officers illegally?

    Just something I noticed.

    1. Very few people seem to understand a fucking switchblade. Very few switchblades on the street CLIP on a jean pocket. The fucking point of switchblade in NOT to be clipped. Switchblades, the which I own several and who gives a motherfucking fuck since I exist in the trees here….

      My view? The fucking union shit stains have procreated the sprung-metal backstop on a normal walmart sold blade to be a morphable ‘spring’. Hence, terms are being invented by the Baltimore Police

      1. Do you not prefer an OTF knife like a Microtech, or Benchmade Infidel style automatic?

        1. Poor ass nigger can’t afford shit like that, Knight Gilmatorius. Man, this is the fucking goddamn brick shits. The fucking tired oxygen-robbing ghett’s. Dude, got that shit from his dead grandpa. No FUCKINg shit I’m about to stab you with will be worn with a visible clip, period. And I grew up in ghetto Toledo.. and I DID carry a switchblade. I carried a butterfly switch to high school because I feared for my life. I am excellent with a butterfly switch even at this FUCKING age. FUCK age. I can switch a butterfly blade really well… I suck at mahcine guns… i am better at knife…

          1. Oh, right, i forget that the MT and Benchmades are like stooopid expensive.

            there are some cheaper ones, and they work (although break easily too)

            Boker makes some decent ones for ~$50-70

            this guy reviews one for $30 that he liked


    2. If the knife was illegal under Baltimore law, couldn’t she be charged with the same thing because she arrested the police officers illegally?

      I’m guessing she has absolute immunity.

    3. Of course not. police have qualified immunity; prosecutors have absolute immunity. I recall one story of a prosecutor who couldn’t be sued over actually framing a guy, since he was acting as a prosecutor. Beyond that, the prosecutor didn’t literally arrest anyone; other cops did, on her behalf.

  32. Bill Clinton concedes role in mass incarceration

    President Bill Clinton on Wednesday conceded that over-incarceration in the United States stems in part from policies passed under his administration.

    Clinton signed into law an omnibus crime bill in 1994 that included the federal “three strikes” provision, mandating life sentences for criminals convicted of a violent felony after two or more prior convictions, including drug crimes. On Wednesday, Clinton acknowledged that policy’s role in over-incarceration in an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour.

    “The problem is the way it was written and implemented is we cast too wide a net and we had too many people in prison,” Clinton said Wednesday. “And we wound up…putting so many people in prison that there wasn’t enough money left to educate them, train them for new jobs and increase the chances when they came out so they could live productive lives.”

    Clinton’s comments come on the heels of protests in Baltimore over policing and the death of a young black man there and a week after Hillary Clinton delivered one of the first policy addressees of her presidential campaign on criminal justice reform, saying that the system focuses too much on incarceration.

    Forgive and forget?

    1. Nah, He’s a sordid literal shitdump from all the millions of hellish murdering devils haunting the suburbs hanging and stabbing kids with screwdrivers. A true Al Fish gastro spew. A fucking empty-hearted filth blizzard. You don’t send millions of Americans into the prisons and eat crumpets in Naples. You fucking rotting cankered braindead quasi-human. I hate you with a billion broken dictionaries- words never found and lost and discovered, you pasty southern whore hole of human fuck, Bill Clinton.

  33. That Gray is dead subsequent to his arrest for bullshit reasons it is entirely fitting that the people who directly caused his death be arrested and tried for bullshit reasons.

    Because, if we didn’t do it this way then the system could end up on trial.

    And we can’t have that, could cost the Mosbys their jobs…

    1. If most drugs were legal and controlled like all the liquors I drink that dead nigger wouldn’t have been tortured for a week until his miserable death days later.

  34. Passed by a TV and it was Pam Gellar and Anjem Choudary on Sean Hannity. It’s like some kind of a halfwit singularity.

    1. Pam Gellatin is not a fucking .5 wit, nigga. Fuck your Troll buzz, lover.

    2. Did she reiterate her belief that Grover Norquist is a Muslim Brotherhood agent?

      1. Would you believe I didn’t stop to listen?

        1. Fucking goddam whore babe troll… spread your fucking knobbles so my fucking spremes can jam your fucking Troll vagina… fucking whore troll babe… my fucking cock fucked a dancela troll… in the fucki,g butts…. Listen to my spreme killers swim your cunt, niggatroll.

          1. u mad, bro?

            1. Trillions of your favorite cunt joose poured on my love troll. Pure lovo, bro. Pure lovo. I am traveling love. Pure lovolo for Trolls… the fancy dancer…. Apologetiz for offence man… fucked up. Love troll gods. I love trolls. I gave fuckin tons of money to trolls. liittle trolls all sick and shit I gave money to sick trolls… serious man… no probz with trolls.. none whatsoevefukinwhere….

      2. And yet, Norquist is acquainted with some very unsavory characters.

        I refer, of course, to his attendance at Burning Man.

        1. lol

          The abrahamoff scandal was a brief moment when the scumbaggery of DC was openly visible to everyone. It was a little awkward.

  35. Planet Libertopia was found on the fucking remix of galaxies and these bitches found a rockets into the arc and sine of lost energy and found radiance and over all these trips and sights a bunch of this fucks founded a nappy planet with the fucking congenial ozone and various multifuckin limbed cows running the hills… and all.. so yea…. fuck me… man

    1. The dream lives, Cy. We can die there so that a planet lives.

  36. I want to rape a troll.

  37. I should rape my own butthole with my own face….

  38. I should fuckin eat my own eyeballs…

    1. My eyeballs are the scouts of army trying to kill me. They are eating me alive.

      1. Eyebums floorpetal future flow skacks. The pop flings back in like a cute mexicoloa woeman…. big tits eat your balls… and 13 faces eat the dicks and mexacalodickspearmcunt blowashums….

        man I have no fFUCKING idea what is goin on right now in this day.

        1. I have been ticking through my histories. I have been allergic to cold!. I must, probably, bid adieu to the blue swirling of connectedness that is the Indian’s revenge. I will be grumpy. And everyone will endure it. But my eyes will no longer hate me.

  39. reason minds are dope… dope should be legal.. should thes e fuckin dopes be illegal ,,,wait… if humans are dope and I do this shit on my nose and i get high on Huckabee… Huckabee, jesus freak monster paw tank fuck killer citizen boot if i get high on yo huckabee coke will what where what the fucking fuck white ass fuckbith bonkey….

    Fuck this shit…

  40. I think Marlyn Mosbey is hot. I don’t have game in any sort of Chateau Heatiste way, but she couldn’t play me like a piano either.

    Like I said, I am not a player. My pick line is. “So Marlyn, are you Welsh?

    1. I want 2 widget Mosbey.

    2. It’s on. We can meet at train station in Bala Cynhyd.

      1. Bala Cynwyd. Sorry.

    3. I think Marlyn Mosbey is hot.

      Have you been snorting whatever Agile Cyborg has been snorting?

  41. If there’s any justice in the world, everyone working for the Southern Poverty Law Center will spend eternity being raped by fundamentalist Imams.

    For the cartoonist whose portrait of Mohammad won a Texas contest, the police killing of two gunmen outside the meeting place was justice.

    “They came to kill us and died for it. Justice,” artist Bosch Fawstin tweeted on Monday.

    Fawstin’s winning entry depicts a sword-wielding Prophet in a turban shouting, “You can’t draw me.” In reply, a cartoon bubble portrays the artist, his hand grasping a pencil, as saying, “That’s why I draw you.”

    The American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), sponsor of the Sunday night event, gave Fawstin, a Bronx, New York-born, former Muslim, $12,500 in prize money and introduced him to the crowd as a courageous and righteous man.

    The Southern Poverty Law Center, which includes AFDI on its annual list of U.S. hate groups, plans to add Fawstin to its 2016 report, Heidi Beirich, director of the tracking effort, told Reuters on Monday.

    Former Muslim criticizes his ex-religion, almost gets assassinated for it, ends up on SPLC ‘hate list.’ Fuck those gutless eunuchs.

    1. “Fawstin, who said he is atheist, laughed when asked about the law center’s report: “So they want to put a cartoonist on there who doesn’t act out violently? Go for it.””

      Remarkably, the reuters piece seems to be siding with the SPLC. at least in their headline, and the way they couch things.

      1. My goal is to end up on an SPLC hate list at some point in my life. It seems like better company than the people who attend SPLC fundraisers, at the very least.

      2. You misspelled “predictably”

    2. Incidentally, I have no particular reason to want to defend Fawstin either given that he doesn’t appear particularly libertarian. It just strikes me as a bit distasteful to add someone to a ‘hate list’ for criticizing his former religion three days after he was almost murdered.

      1. Fawstin, like Geller, is an Objectivist.

        1. So how come Cyto hates Geller? Too anti-immigrant?

          1. So how come Cyto hates Geller?

            No clue. As I’ve noted before, her views really aren’t divergent from the foreign policy/Middle East stuff coming out of the ARI by folks like Elan Journo or Yaron Brook.

            1. Objectivism, like any good religion, can justify anything if you squint hard enough.

              1. No it can’t. “But it’s a religion!” = I can’t argue against it.

        2. Yes, and I find it interesting – not surprising, not interesting – to see people avowing that the Objectivist Geller (and now the Objectivist Fawstin, I guess) are ickier and less hero-er than the Charlie Hebdo people, who unless I very much miss my guess are left-wing French people.

          1. not surprising, *just* interesting

          2. I’ve been of the view that neither of the “victims” (or intended victims) matter.

            I never felt very Je Suis-anything after the Charlie attack. and i never read a single one of their issues or browsed covers. I don’t really care who they were. they could have been making a magazine about Wicker Furniture, or purveying Monkey Porn for all i care.

            Similarly, I’m not interested in the Geller character, and don’t know why its even relevant to the story. They could have been having a cartoon-contest for *anything*. Or maybe it could have been a pornographic puppet show, where mohommed is portrayed by a coconut. It could have been ‘dress a pig like the prophet’ convention. Whatever. It makes no difference.

            The point is that insane people tried to mass-murder them. because they’re fucking insane and they think killing people is cool.

            apparently other people see the issue differently. I could give a rat’s ass who Pam Geller is.

            1. That’s my instinct – it simply set me off to see the je suis charlie stuff versus the distancing from Geller. If you’re going to honor one group in France as heroes, why not a similar group in America, which differs from the French group mainly in avoiding Charlie’s ridiculous moral-equivalence bashing of Christians and Jews.

              Obviously, I’m not criticizing anyone who has the same attitude toward any and all murderous attacks regardless of the views of the victim. That’s my own instinct, as I said.

        3. I saw that when I went to his blog because all the links are to the Ayn Rand Institute, Geller, etc.

          Anyway, look at this bigoted monster.

          Another noteworthy instance of my being taken out of context was with respect to my view of the propensity of Muslims to become Jihadists, and how one should deal with self-described Muslims. Yes, I did say that I think it is possible for a Muslim to become a Jihadist. This is because, as I have learned in the research I did leading up to writing and drawing The Infidel, Islam prescribes Jihad as something its true believers should engage in, in order to spread Islam. What I discussed in the interview, which didn’t make it into the final segment, was my own attitude towards individual Muslims. I have family members who consider themselves Muslims with whom I am friendly, and I would certainly not conclude that your average Muslim is likely to become a Jihadist. They cut from the segment the following statement, which clearly distinguishes average Muslims from Islam’s consistent practitioners: “Your average Muslim is morally superior to Mohammed. They are individuals who may or may not be a problem. It’s Islam’s consistent practitioners, it’s organized Islam, that is the problem.” Obviously, this statement made me seem too reasonable (or maybe they thought it was too blasphemous) for it to be included in the segment.


          1. He’s also a horribly meanspirited human being who never has anything nice to say about anyone:

            Despite my experience, I want to give kudos to “The Daily Show” for having the nerve to showcase Pigman, even if only to make fun of him and me for a couple minutes.

        4. STOP RIGHT THERE. Geller is NOT an Objectivist at all. She just sprays Atlas Shrugged imagery all over her website. She’s against legalizing drugs.

      2. “But much about him remains a mystery, including whether Fawstin is his real name, Beirich said.”

        How suspicious!

        If I were Beirich, I’d conceal my name out of shame for being such a fuckhead.

        1. Yes, Beirich, social justice demands that you dox a man who currently is dealing with some credible threats against his life and the life of his family. It must be so hard to be so righteous in this morally flawed world of ours, Beirich. I don’t know how you do it!

    3. “He’s like the artist of the movement,” Beirich said. “His views, they are hate views.” She said his website is “virulently ugly” in its anti-Muslim views.

      75 percent of his posts are political cartoon-like caricatures of Obama and 15 percent is political cartoon boosterism of Ted Cruz. But when you’re a think tank, you can libel a person through hyperbole and get away with it.

      1. Not for the first time, the SPLC takes people who were targeted for murder and calls them haters.

        Somehow, the media which cite SPLC don’t mention how a would-be assassin used an SPLC list to identify his target – the people of the Family Research Council. Because the media would have totally ignored a right-wing assassin choosing his targets from a right-wing org’s list.

        I no longer use the term “cosmotarian,” but I think we should use the term “libertine-ian” to describe the sort of person who says Charle Hebdo staff are heroes beyond criticism while FRC and Geller are evil Illinois nazis whose rights we must hold our noses and support.

        1. In fairness, I didn’t see anyone here making that argument. People have been pretty unequivocal in their support for Geller, so there doesn’t seem to be much nose holding.

          All the nose holding has been from some moderate liberals. Other leftists have just refused to support Geller altogether.

          1. I don’t want to paint with too broad a brush, but when I raised this issue earlier, there were a couple of people who said Geller was worse than the Charlie people.

            1. Not in the sense of being less entitled to free expression, but in the sense of being less entitled to free-expression awards and other forms of public acclaim.

      1. “Pamela Geller, who denies being racist against all Muslims…”

  42. So this clouds are flowing likes the capes on 3 fronts and I am loving the voices of these sentences in these white steps man… just engage the wolf scream and lion scretch….. and tunnels of the thouhts are caught so my fingers are now escaped from my mind fuck… my mind is actually fucked up on drugs and booze but I found a space where I am fucked but I can get this space agents to type real shit and check this out, my fingers work fine but my brain is actually literally fucked byond belief man… you lovely bitches don’t even know man… so maye i can finger express while u i’ . /m tripping? look at this man…. those fucking beers on these places are lined up like vaginas for my mouth to enjoy all to make beer and cunts happy…. man … so… I am working at this…. fuck….cant concentrak…. fuck the fuk motherfukin FUCKUFIKCUKFUCKKUFKUFKUFKKUKCUKUCKUCCKCKUKUKUCKU

    1. Ok so fuck that self cok sucker… see the inter philosophili? agile sucking agile cock cuz agile is pissed off at agile so yea this show s you can be fucked up like almost dead fucked up adn have discopline and i want to suck that dudes cick above called …. why what the fuck yea I wil suck my own coke….

      so these places are a meadow into the smooth tenders tupo…. my fucking mouth is watering see look I can type super fucked up shit I need to see how many words i can typ fucked up….

      so demeirtits… juhovao,,, burritos,, tokas, , germs… please cuck,, vagina fish sword mind place…

      so we swing

  43. WTF is the point of the state if it can’t even defend the property of its citizens. Baltimore should disband its police force and offer store owners tax credits with which to purchase Blackwater operatives.

    1. Pope hatchets smash red butt skills… man those pope children brains smash into galaxtio bass and volcanic vaginas… hatch pope is a lid into the ass of the newest pope and I want to crawl into pope ass and his fukin brain…. I want a hatch into life and popes and jesus and citys and fops….

    2. In a remarkably tin-eared performance, the new mayor of Oakland attended a ‘fair’ intended to attract new businesses to Oakland about three days after the cops allowed rioters to prance up and down Oakland’s version of ‘auto row’; showroom and vehicle windows were randomly shattered and at least one car was torched.
      I’m sure businesses were standing in line to find out how to move to Oakland!

    3. WTF is the point of the state if it can’t even defend the property of its citizens.

      If the fools are stupid enough to still pay their protection money, then who’s truly to blame?

      1. Reminds me of that “anarchotyranny” stuff. The state only leaves you alone to get mugged/looted. There is an oppressive state without the “social order” authoritarian states claim to provide.

        1. This is why I support substituting anarchotyranny for tyrannoanarchy. Corporate landowners would replace the gaggle of public institutions we refer to as “the state.” As economically self-interested managers, these corporations would eliminate threats to commerce at a minimum cost and decline to waste resources prosecuting victimless crimes. Agile Cyborg would be the new regime’s poet laureate.

          It’s about time we libertarians admit that the West’s rash and treasonous experiment in democracy has been an abject failure. It has set in motion a nigh-unstoppable tidal wave of egalitarianism, socialism, feminism, and other PC nonsense. There may be no plausible solution, but expecting incremental reforms to do anything more than inconvenience the left’s relentless onslaught is shamefully naive.

  44. Six bullets kill clouds. I did not know this… a fucking sex of lead kills storms. and tornahurricatoes…

    1. I think this is how the weather control devices in star trek got started.

  45. I don’t really care if she over-charged, or she did it in the name of crowd control: when cops are using their power and the supposed respect we have for them (despite the numerous amount of cops like Serpico who have always pinpointed that cops don’t deserve as much respect as they are given), and are willing to protect their own, I see no reason why a rare prosecutor should flip the table around, most of them don’t, which is why they are acting like the constitution has been burned to ashes because a couple of their buddies got convicted; a rarity. Regardless, they will still get their just due day in courty, they will still manage to most likely use tax payer money to pay their bail money, and they will most likely get off with most stuff, because the people who we rely on to find justice when murders occur, do it a little differently, when the possible murderer is one of their own.

  46. A selection of Salon headlines about the Koch brothers:

    Scott Walker is now toast: The crazy move right that cost him the Koch brothers ? and probably the nomination

    Rand Paul’s nauseating Koch suck-up: 2016?s “libertarian-ish” candidate brownnoses the billionaire brothers

    The Kochs take millions in subsidies in Montana, then try to block Medicaid expansion

    “Fascism is rising in America”: The Koch brothers and democracy’s dispiriting demise

    1. ‘Koch bros ™ cause the end of the universe!’

      Has that one gone out yet?

      1. It will appear right under “universe ends – women, minorities hardest hit”

    2. I wonder how much it pissed them off that the Kochs have supported gay marriage for decades longer than any of Salon’s preferred political candidates.

      1. None.
        They run a profit making organization and are unapologetic about it.
        They, therefore, are to be despised.
        Frau Clinton, OTOH, having lied, destroyed evidence, accepted bribes, is to be celebrated, since she, uh, well…..

    3. I wish the right would stop apologizing for having powerful backers. Someone should just tell the uppity little english majors at salon that they are fucking worthless in comparison to the Kochs of the world.

  47. sounds break skin.

    man fingernails scratch modern life on the scraper streets

    fuk ny… ny is lost in its own sordapie

    real like is a venru

    a living unknownst feeling flock of imagined non
    resist the lead

    man, I am tripping right now and my mind is leads me but man
    I hope i was the fuck not offfensifizing my bros… man….

    sometime I get all the drigs and broozed and I go to slept and I wake up and feel the ufk fuck the fuck up supera bad cause i don’t want to offends all the brothres and ssistahs, man….

    I leave here but I am fuckin upped and I have to partay alone becase I man have to go deep alone…. I respect all this site…..

    Geting tripped and fucked online isnt really respect for sites… man…. i am fukd up and this sit HAS TO fukin hatme

  48. Agile Cyborg Facts

    Toads lick Agile Cyborg to get high.

    1. And I’d bet the stuff that AC *doesn’t* ingest would be enough to make most of us dangerous behind the wheel.

  49. If we’re not too far into poetry this evening, I just thought I’d pass on a nugget of wisdom from an SF city supervisor.
    Now, SF has a ‘housing problem’, in that it costs a lot to live here. That’s a ‘problem’ to proggies; it’s a fact to those who are capable of thought.
    Regardless of whether it is a ‘problem’ of not, the high cost of housing is driven by the market in predictable patterns; it’s a beautiful place to live and there’s not much space. It is also driven by the SF city gov’t proggy policies regarding zoning, height and density regs, rent control and several others. So, what’s the solution?

    “Campos wants moratorium on new housing in the Mission”
    “Calling the city’s housing policies a failure, Supervisor David Campos introduced legislation Tuesday to halt construction of market-rate housing in the Mission District.
    “The Mission is ultimately the Mission because of the people, and if we lose the people we lose the Mission,” Campos said in announcing the legislation at the Mission Neighborhood Center, surrounded by a dozen jostling preschoolers holding antieviction posters. “A moratorium gives the community a fighting chance.”…..244209.php

    I’m sure Tony or turd will enlighten us regarding how prohibiting ‘market rate’ housing will somehow make housing cheaper, but for the rest f us, it seems to be a mystery.

    1. Using children as political props is fucking sickening.

      1. “Using children as political props is fucking sickening.”

        That’s not a monopoly of the left; the righties use the same with, oh, SSM. But there’s not doubt the left gets more mileage out of it.
        I happened to be driving by the Board of Ed (what a pathetic name) several months ago, and the teachers had 8-12YO kids lined up holding signs that were not the products of those kids. And later in the day, the TV news cameras showed what seemed to be hundreds by careful placement in front of a ‘crowd’ of 20 or so.

  50. Hit And Run doesn’t need no politician to declare a curfew. The libertarian curfew is the libertarian moment.

  51. Agile Cyborg Facts

    The painting known as The Scream was actually a smiley face before Agile Cyborg gazed upon it.

  52. Agile Cyborg Facts

    Dock Ellis once pitched a no-hitter after shaking Agile Cyborg’s hand.

    1. nice

  53. Agile Cyborg Facts

    Frederico Fellini’s didn’t actually direct any movies. He just gave Agile Cyborg a camera and edited the result.

  54. Agile Cyborg Facts

    The Sokal Hoax was no hoax as it was actually written by Agile Cyborg

    Jackson Pollock, Francis Bacon and H.R. Giger became that way after talking to Agile Cyborg for a minute.

    Jackie Coakley was sane until she met Agile Cyborg

    LSD is merely an attempt to recreate Agile Cyborg’s thought processes.

  55. I think all killings by police should automatically go before a judge; no grand jury should be needed.

    Police have special privileges and rights, they usually are on paid leave while they go through the legal proceedings, so the usual protections that the grand jury is supposed to provide for private citizens against arbitrary prosecution by prosecutors need not apply.

    1. I would say inquest jury, not judge.

      After reading in Reason about an inquest in Montana, I was impressed – they require* a public inquest for people whose deaths are caused by police, so an advisory jury can recommend prosecution if the death is the cops’ fault.

      *Unless the prosecutors files charges right away, so it wouldn’t be relevant to a case like in Baltimore.

      1. caused by police or occurring in connection with police custody

        1. The application to this case is a bit less clear than I thought, but it’s close:

  56. Once again the Conservative Treehouse people seem to be doing the sort of detailed investigative reporting that the mainstream media is supposed to do. They did good work on the Michael Brown case long before the grand jury came to pretty much the same conclusions.

    (Note: I am not endorsing any conclusions here, just linking. I watched the relevant parts of the videos, but didn’t see much to endorse any particular view, and of course these don’t cover whatever happened after the van left.)

    Video Evidence Emerges Of Freddie Gray Running Into Building During Chase, Then Doubling Back Before Arrest?

    1. An anonymous source says Gray was a police informant. A dang good one too, apparently.…..ant-video/

      In fact, there are theories that Freddie got arrested to create a pretext to be brought into the station. I’ve heard other theories that he may have tried to swallow an enormous amount of drugs to conceal them, and that contributed to the injury.

      It doesn’t seem likely that Freddie would injure himself. You would have to be borderline insane to smash your head that hard to sever the spine. But it also seems unlikely that Goodwin drove the car so erratically that someone inside could actually die. Unless the guy was going 100 MPH and ran straight into a wall, or something.

      There are lots of things about this case that doesn’t make sense. A drug dealer who packs a knife instead of heat?

  57. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ??????

  58. My mom makes $70 every hour on the computer . She has been fired from work for 9 months but last month her pay was $18079 just working on the computer for a few hours.
    See here. ?? ?????????

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