Tonight on The Independents: Ebola Politics, Jacob Sullum on Guns and Mental Health, LP Senate Candidate Chad Grimm, U.S. Aid to ISIS, Gay-Marry-Me-or-Else!, Keene = Ferguson?, and After-show

On tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) beloved Reason Senior Editor Jacob Sullum will explain how, in New York and California, if you want to keep your gun rights, you'd better stay away from any kind of mental health professional.

Party Panelists Guy Benson (Townhall Political Editor) and Rick Ungar (Forbes columnist) will talk about President Barack Obama's semi-private seething over his administration's handling of Ebola, plus the seemingly scant amount of training that U.S. military personnel are receiving before being deployed to the scene of the outbreak. Later, the two will talk about whether for-profit marryists should be punished by the state for refusing to marry people of the same sex.

Last week, beloved Reason staffer Scott Shackford asked, "Will a Libertarian Play Spoiler in the Illinois Governor's Race?" We'll have said Libertarian, Chad Grimm, on to ask about it. Did you hear the one about how U.S. humanitarian aid is lining the pocketbooks of ISIS thugs? We'll discuss. And Kmele Foster will likely lay some whoop-ass on facile comparisons between anti-police protesters in Ferguson, and drunken pumpkin-kickers in Keene, New Hampshire.

Online-only aftershow begins at foxbusiness.com/independents just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Why won't you have Shackford on the show is what I want to know. What is < i The Independents trying to hide?

[Scott S.]

I'm beloved!

[Sudden]

I've always preferred being reviled myself.

[PapayaSF]

If so, just question the wisdom of mass immigration, or of granting tourist visas to people in Ebola zones. Either will get you reviled around here.

[Cytotoxic]

And rightly so.

[Irish]

There were plenty of people questioning the wisdom of granting tourist visas to people in Ebola zones.

Did you actually read those threads? I'd say there was pretty much a 50/50 split.

[PapayaSF]

I didn't mean universally reviled around. I know a number of people agree with me. But the amount of venom from some people who did not was a bit surprising. You'd have thought I was advocating that cops shoot more dogs or something.

[Fist of Etiquette]

IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You're a novel by Toni Morrison?

[GILMORE]

Being "beloved" means you've received the kiss from the Godfather and now no one can touch you without permission.

[Winston]

Doesn't Matt Welch support the public accommodation laws?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

If he does it would be a libertarian lapse, that's true, comparable to the many here who want to restrict immigration rights.

[Sudden]

You know who else believed in ferociously punishing anyone who strayed from the party line?

[BigT]

False equivalence, BCE.

[Cytotoxic]

Not really, although a case could be made that restrictions on immigration are worse.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The NY and CA bans are egregious. Not only will they have the kind of 'unintended' negative consequences Sullum points out, but they will have the effect of depriving many people who are not and will never be threats to anyone of a basic, fundamental right (well, two, their right to own property that is harming no one and their right to keep and bear arms). They're a rather powerless group and the progressive gun controllers in those states are kicking them while they're down.

[OldMexican]

Re: Bo Cara Esq,

Sullum points out, but they will have the effect of depriving many people who are not and will never be threats to anyone of a basic, fundamental right

The right to seek counsel without the fear of being reported to the political commissar?

Sorry, but there's no such right, comrade!

[GILMORE]

"Rick Ungar"

Really? because we were hoping he was following the Ebola story. Closely. As in, licking patient #2's armpits.

[GILMORE]

" Obama Is Said to Seethe"

Government, you have failed the Great One!?! He who has done so much for YOU?

What does it say about politicians that they genuinely don't realize that Government is horribly incompetent? Did he really think "FEMA" screwed the pooch on Katrina because 'BOOSH WUZ RACISTS!?'? Am i to believe that Obama really believed his own lies about the effectiveness of Govt Action?

Oh, no wait. I get it now = he doesn't *actually* give a shit that the nation faces a potential outbreak of the deadliest disease known to man. Its that *they haven't effectively used that opportunity to look better for the election*

For a second there I was worried the guy was actually coming to grips with reality.

[GILMORE]

Seriously though = has anyone actually realized that Obama probably threw the military into Liberia for no particular practical purpose *other* than to create 'presidential'-appearing-actions leading into the mid-terms?

[PapayaSF]

Of course.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Green

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ugh. That suede jacket.

[Winston]

And blue suede shoes?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Not if they're from Chicago.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Shameless Obamabots are so much fun to watch.

[Buddy Bizarre]

Whoa... are those new earrings?

[Fist of Etiquette]

No. They're the same tired old dreamcatchers.

[Buddy Bizarre]

The dreamcatchers I remember seeing are larger... unless there are 2 sizes like the hoops.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Maybe someone stole your television set and replaced it with a smaller model.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Welch is getting angry. Ungar wouldn't like him when he's angry.

[Sudden]

No one made him as angry as the Kansas City Royals.

And yes, I will continue trolling Welch and his Angels until I am locked up in a British prison. Technically though, it's all part of my efforts to infiltrate ISIS and become the Caliph. I will then use the caliphate to establish libertopia in the Middle East (and I will have many exotic wives).

[GILMORE]

Rick Ungar = just when i thought he couldn't be a slimier human being... 'dead africans don't count' - 'our scorecard is clear'

[Francisco d'Anconia]

No, we can't agree on that. The government exists to protect people's RIGHTS!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ha, I do enjoy them hammering Ungar on seemingly devaluing foreign lives.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Like they have any choice in the matter.

[BigT]

Exactly. Our troops are being used like slaves.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Benson beats everyone to the troop-supporting punch.

[GILMORE]

Rick, if the country weren't entirely stupid, your party wouldn't ever win elections.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ha, that's great. WE DON'T ALL HAVE EBOLA SO OBAMA MUST BE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT.

[Cytotoxic]

Really? Rick 'cockbreath' Ungar? Is The Independents this desperate?

[Fist of Etiquette]

But, Kennedy, it's Monday.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Good for you. Fuck the Republicans. You want libertarian votes...run libertarians.

[Cytotoxic]

They don't even have to run out-and-out libertarians. Just decent reformist candidates like Tillis.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yes. A moderately libertarian candidate would get my vote.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ha, I think we all know just how horribly that state is governed.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Illinois most corrupt? Racist!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Racist against whom? Illinis?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Obama.

Of course.

[Heroic Mulatto]

But he's from Kenya!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I say, fuck you, to those people.

[Fist of Etiquette]

REPUBLICANS OWN THAT VOTER. THIS IS THEFT.

[Fist of Etiquette]

That man needed a white shirt and different tie. Who is his handler?

[Winston]

So how bad are Illinois Republicans? Aren't the last few GOP governors in jail?

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 20 October 2014

I Shall Return-Edition

- Kennedy: Sippin Sizzurp, Urple-Urple Izod. Like a Sprite with a healthy splash of Codeine-laced cough syrup, it is sweet and bubbly and intoxicating. As always = we are bullish bright/strong colors on Kennedy and we hope the coming Halloween season provides a whole bag of them. +1

- Matt: GAH! The Pelt! And it has Candy too!! Our feelings about the furry brown sport coat are mixed. It is like a old dog that has lost its eyesight and farts and groans all the time. We want to be nice to it up until the moment we shoot it in the back of the head and bury it in the back yard. It will be remembered fondly.

- Kmele: Ever the reliable man of taste, Kmele holds down the fort like Sam Houston. We like the Grey shirt in this combo, as it maintains the relatively neutral color combinations we like best but remains hipper than your average sport-coat combo. Maroon is the tie color winner for fall, works great with either Grey or Blue suits.

- Chad, the Libertarian Governor Dude Guy: Seems like a nice person, but I wouldn't vote for a politician who looks like he still skateboards.

Mauliate

[Heroic Mulatto]

One comment on Kmele is that I while the grey shirt is definitely expert mode, a crisp, clean white button-down oxford cloth sport shirt would have allowed the maroon tie to "pop" much better.

My 0.02.

[GILMORE]

Yerp

Kmele does things i could not do myself, and probably would not do myself. but I respect the fact that he consistently wears something almost entirely different every show (mostly) and wins about 3/4 of the time.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's always the corrupt governments' fault, isn't it, < i The Independents?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I love you Kmele.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

In a platonic, philosophical, no buttsex kinda way.

[Heroic Mulatto]

In a platonic ... no buttsex kinda way

SYNTAX ERROR

[C. Anacreon]

Don't worry, Fd'A. Weren't you here the other day when we learned that most gay male sex is cocksucking, not the bufu? You could just be platonic, philosophical, and with blow jobs, no buttsecks kinda way.

[Winston]

So when will they get a gay Mexican pothead on the show?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Would it be giving or receiving?

[C. Anacreon]

I think according to theology, it is better to give than to receive.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

But I'm an atheist.

[C. Anacreon]

Again from the theology, if you are an atheist, then you are fucked.
As a "lay" person, I think that means more than the oral sex.
So it goes way beyond the eternal 'blow job/high school wrestling position' question of who starts where?

[Fist of Etiquette]

But I want to know how bad their neighbors are.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I wish my girlfriend would sweep my chimney.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

DON'T MAKE FUN OF VALLEY GIRL!

[Fist of Etiquette]

So Tut came from the Ozarks?

[C. Anacreon]

Actually, I believe he was born in Arizona, and moved to Babylonia

[Winston]

I am teh disappoint at the lack of GOT references.

[Fist of Etiquette]

NO SPOILERS.

[Winston]

Too late!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pojdDGvAaxE

[Notorious G.K.C.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TCunfSdrNE

[GILMORE]

KING TUT WAS PHARRELL?

[Fist of Etiquette]

A commercial for furryism?

[Winston]

What's the libertarian line on furries? Is that kid from Rock-A-Doodle a libertarian?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Two topics about royals tonight.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Can Obama exempt people from getting ebola?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Who is *exempt* from performing same-sex weddings?

More like, who is *conscripted* into assisting at these weddings? Answers - too many people.

[C. Anacreon]

And don't get me started on the bridesmaid dresses.......

[Winston]

Why oh why did the Giants have to spoil another all-Missouri World Series?

[C. Anacreon]

That would have been riveting for people living in the other 56 states.

Nice we dodged that bullet. One I-70 series per millenium, thanks.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

GOD FORBID!

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's appropriate this show is on opposite Maddow when you talk things like this.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You can tell Unger is trying so, so hard not to blurt out a phrase involving houses.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What's all this talk about lunch counters?

/takes spoonful of cereal.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

No. There is no difference.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ha! Welch qualified his support of marriage licensing or else I was going to crawl all over his ass.

[GILMORE]

Ungar doesn't want gay marriage = liberals want to force people to do stuff. They don't care what it is - they want it to be enforced.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Say what you want about Unger, he still gave the world this. Really!

[Winston]

Chuck Lorre gave us the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme song.

On the other hand Lyle Talbot spawned the founder of Salon...

[GILMORE]

Christ.

He should have stayed in children's television. it almost makes sense, though.

[Winston]

it almost makes sense, though.

It does explain his regurgitation of other people's idea.

[GILMORE]

I meant more the "chuckling patronizing attitude".

he's a man who's used to talking-down to people.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ungar makes a funny.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Unger uses the same old talking point about how you can discriminate so long as you lie about what you're doing.

No, you can't.

Once a type of discrimination is illegal, then plaitiffs' attorneys, with liberal discovery, will be able to poke holes in your excuse.

"Mr. Jenkins, your records show you *weren't* booked that day!"

oops...time to impose damages...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Ebola jokes are always funny.

Especially if makes idiots nervous.

[Winston]

You Know Who Else thinks humor's only purpose is upsetting people he doesn't like?

[C. Anacreon]

Don Rickles?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Jon Stewart?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Andrew "Dice" Clay?

Hickory, Dickory, Dock...

[Migrant Log Picker]

Sam Kinison..

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I'm the guy at the table who laughs at uncomfortable jokes made by others.

It's my way of supporting minorities.

[Winston]

It's my way of supporting minorities.
Fat lot of good that did for Michael Applebaum.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The idiot goes and squanders the chance at being the fist English speaking mayor in Montreal in decades by being corrupt and getting arrested.

Idiot.

[Winston]

squanders the chance at being the fist English speaking mayor in Montreal in decades

Well he still was mayor though he didn't end up lasting very long or doing much of anything.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Victory!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Reputation dot com? Sign me up.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Ugh! I (heart) NY.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sullum taking a shot at the mental health care industry. Ka-boom.

[GILMORE]

If you go to a therapist, and they don't *like you* and think you have a bad temper, you're going to end up on this list.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

+1 Elaine Benes.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Did I see Heroic in the background?

[Heroic Mulatto]

err....

[Heroic Mulatto]

Rich? You ever visited Keene State, Kennedy?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm going to guess Foster will not find the differing narratives racist. Let's see if I'm right.

[Winston]

differing narratives

What is the deal with the "differing narratives" stuff? A party going out of control for a few hours is inherently different to protests against a police shooting turning into rioting for a few days and several weeks of local tension.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Well, as the Ridley Report could tell you, in Keene there have been several years of tension concerning the locals and the cops.

[Winston]

So the people bitching about the coverage of both are racist against white people?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Huh?

No...I'm saying the real similarity is in the overbearing reaction of the police and the consequent reactions by the citizenry.

You might recall that the Keene PD made the news awhile back for requesting a Bearcat. You wanna play COINOPS? Then don't be surprised if some of the people being to play at being OPFOR insurgents.

[Winston]

I wasn't disagreeing. I don't think many of the cop defenders support drunken whites rioting about the cops.

You wanna play COINOPS? Then don't be surprised if some of the people being to play at being OPFOR insurgents.

Where's Captain Price when you need him?

[Fist of Etiquette]

How's come Keepin' It Kmele gets twice as much time as Where It's Matt? The soft racism of inequity in air time.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Well no one was, you know, fucking killed. So there's that. No?

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[GILMORE]

It used to be that colleges had annual Fall festivals where there was lots of beer, bonfires, and outdoor revelry.

Then we had the political correctedness of the 1990s, and most colleges stopped all that, because 'unsafe'.

The stupid nonsense about comparing Ferguson with the Keene thing = in Ferguson, they were RIOTING, and in Keene they were having a *freaking party*. in both cases they got criminally out of control, but that's the only similarity. There's no social 'story' underlying keene. it was just kids running amok.

[GILMORE]

DIZZZOBS

[Fist of Etiquette]

Benson's going as Debbie Downer?

[GILMORE]

Guy Benson is just upset because his mom won't let him go out alone yet.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I'm with him. Fuck Halloween. The only holiday that is worse is St. Patrick's Day.

The Irish have horrible holidays.

[GILMORE]

ITS NOT AN IRISH HOLIDAY

Irish holidays end in 'y'

[Heroic Mulatto]

Fine. I hate Halloweeny.

[GILMORE]

I was setting up for the punchline, which is,

"Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday..."

[Cytotoxic]

It's still better than Christmas.

[GILMORE]

At least on halloween, women like to go Full Slut-tarded. Which i heartily approve of.

As a DJ = New Years and Halloween were the 2 biggest party nights each year. Though how hardcore Halloween got depended what night of the week it fell on

A fun thing to do in NYC on halloween were 'Scavenger hunts'; you'd get partnered with some random people, and be sent on a series of missions around the city and have to retrieve certain items while drinking in every establishment. Maybe it was a fad.

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHO DOESN'T LOVE CANDY?

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHO DOESN'T LOVE CHOCOLATE?

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHO LIKES TAFFY?

[GILMORE]

Guy Benson and Ungar are like "Harry Potter and the Evil Liberal Wizard"

[Fist of Etiquette]

No cut-off.

[Cytotoxic]

Mark Steyn's movie reviews are the best. Here he reviews Outbreak (it sucks). I hope Nostalgia Critic does it next it's very topical.

Anyway, within hours, this Macarena virus reduces its victims to gibbering wrecks, dripping sweat, splattered with lesions and oozing pustules, begging for a merciful release. But then what Dustin Hoffman performance doesn't have that effect?

http://www.steynonline.com/6607/outbreak

[Irish]

Steyn is easily the most entertaining conservative writer currently working in America. National Review royally fucked up when they basically gave him the boot after he got in a fight with one of their editors. If you're a conservative magazine and you have a choice between Steyn and an editor, you fire the editor. Although Steyn did get them sued, so maybe that played into the decision.

I think the article that got Steyn booted from NR is one of the greatest smack downs I have ever seen.

I am sorry my editor at NR does not grasp the stakes. Indeed, he seems inclined to "normalize" what GLAAD is doing. But, if he truly finds my "derogatory language" offensive, I'd rather he just indefinitely suspend me than twist himself into a soggy pretzel of ambivalent inertia trying to avoid the central point ? that a society where lives are ruined over an aside because some identity-group don decides it must be so is ugly and profoundly illiberal. As to his kind but belated and conditional pledge to join me on the barricades, I had enough of that level of passionate support up in Canada to know that, when the call to arms comes, there will always be some "derogatory" or "puerile" expression that it will be more important to tut over. So thanks for the offer, but I don't think you'd be much use, would you?

*mic drop*

[Migrant Log Picker]

Though I don't always agree with his points, the way they are presented is priceless. In a just world his
skewering of Mann would garner a Nobel.

Reminds me of Buckly roasting Chomsky on teevee decades ago. Ironic that in those days of yore and my youth I was a leftoid leaner. Funny what 4 decades of life teach you.

[W. Manly Firmness]

Hi, all. Hey, I noticed the article says Chad Grimm would be on (~Oct 20). Did that not happen? I cannot find any video of it.

[GILMORE]

The one where the Zonda F got 1:18?

[GILMORE]

Oh, Series 18, Episode 1 - "Supercars Across Italy":

I confused with the one where they get "italian mid-engined cars" for sub 10,000 and drive them to bristol

[Sudden]

Four hours of Ebola training. But I bet they got like 8 weeks of gender sensitivity training.

[PapayaSF]

Yup.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Shameless Obamabots are so much fun to watch push down the stairs.