Tonight on The Independents: Obama at the UN, Dennis Kucinich on the 'Anti-War Left,' Pentagon Propaganda, Inappropriate Fergusoning, Beloved Internet Libertarian Julie Borowski, and More!

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Tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) spends a decent chunk of time talking about President Barack Obama's weird speech at the United Nations today. Unpacking the ISIS component are Party Panelists Julie Borowski (beloved Internet libertarian) and Deroy Murdock (Fox News contributor). Talking about the audacity of selling an internationally (and domestically) illegal war to the leading international body is lefty anti-war stalwart Dennis Kucinich. And tackling the president's weird rhetorical jag into Ferguson, Missouri is Kmele Foster.

Kyle Lamb, a former Special Forces soldier and author of Leadership in the Shadows, talks about the role of Special Forces in the anti-ISIS fight, and also about what the media gets wrong when talking about the military. (The segment is a tease of our special Friday show, called "Boots on the Ground.") The co-hosts will unpack some recent news about the Obama administration's unprecedented micro-managing of what we used to call the "free press," and Borowski/Murdoch will debate the scandalness of the president's latte salute and travel budget,

Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Unpacking the ISIS component are Party Panelists Julie Borowski (beloved Internet libertarian)

She's intelligent and adorable but last time I recall she barely said anything and sat in uncomfortable silence during a lengthy Ferguson discussion.

Hope she got more engaged this time.

The co-hosts will unpack some recent news about the Obama administration's unprecedented micro-managing of what we used to call the "free press," and Borowski/Murdoch will debate the scandalness of the president's latte salute and travel budget

At least Bush saluted with a live animal.

[GILMORE]

"She's intelligent and adorable but last time I recall she barely said anything and sat in uncomfortable silence during a lengthy Ferguson discussion."

I think she said 2/3 of a sentence before there was an Independents(Kennedy-Led) mass pile-on which stunned her into quirky and adorable silence.

i think she was unaware that this was 'normal'.

[Paul.]

I just looked her up. Ok, I remember her. Thank god she's not who I thought she was.

[Derpetologist]

People Who Are Not Helping

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTfxfdUZ_TQ

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

Heard snippets of the speech. The great orator is banal as he is uninspiring.

[GILMORE]

Julie is 'beloved' now, eh?

Come clean: she's dating someone on the staff now, isn't she?

(burns with jealousy)

[SIV]

Julie isn't palling around with cosmotarians.

[Derpetologist]

This reminded me of Bin Laden's retaliatory South Park cartoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISS6CoZ2vZM

[Winston]

Has the Left ever been anti-war? Robespierre, Marx, Lenin and Stalin sure weren't.

[Irish]

The left is anti-war when they're out of power as a means of creating a populist attack on the ruling class.

Like most leftist ideas, they believe it as long as it serves their political ends.

[Winston]

The left is anti-war when they're out of power as a means of creating a populist attack on the ruling class.

Like most leftist ideas, they believe it as long as it serves their political ends.

Like with civil liberties. The original Left was quite willing to suppress counter-revolutionaries.

[Winston]

Robespierre opposed the Death Penalty, except for counter-revolutionaries of course.

[Sevo]

"Robespierre, Marx, Lenin and Stalin sure weren't."

Hitler, Mussolini...

[Winston]

what we used to call the "free press,"

Calling the Dems "national socialists" is wrong but implying this is okay?

[Dances-with-Trolls]

The "Anti-War" left in 2008.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It truly is AMAZING how silent they are. They even mocked Bush's 'axis of evil' (penned by a Canuck) but not Obama's 'network of evil' which is pretty much the same thing.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

When he said "network of evil" I thought he was going to declare war on 4chan.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

'network of death' my mistake.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Was it? Network of Death does sound cooler, though.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It does.

[GILMORE]

I would argue they weren't 'Anti-War' then.

They were Anti-WHATEVER THE FUCK BOOOSH!!!!

You really had to be at the early 2003 'anti-iraq' rallies in NYC to get an impression of how the 'opposition' was so much of the same stuff we saw on this recent "climate march".

incoherent rage at Capitalism, Republicans, and pained expressions about 'exploited brown people' who, while often referred to, seemed nowhere in sight at actual events.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I suspected that as well but we now see this was the case all along.

[Winston]

You should have learned that lesson on June 22, 1941.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Can't much disagree there.

[Derpetologist]

So, the progs are bristling that people noticed how the climate marchers left piles of garbage in their wake.

Focusing on the marchers' trash is also an example of one of the most fundamental errors in the entire climate discussion: namely, the assumption that what matters is individual virtue.

This line of reasoning is basically individualist: it says that combating climate change and moving to an ecologically sustainable society requires adding up hundreds of millions of changes in individual habits and values. Under this frame, when the People's Climate marchers demand policies to combat climate change, they're seen as demanding more virtuous behavior from their fellow citizens as individuals. Which makes all their trash evidence of their hypocrisy.

So yes, many of the marchers rode in on carbon-spewing buses and cars and airplanes, and bought plastic-coated coffee cups. But it's not their fault those cars and buses and planes rely on fossil fuels rather than renewable electricity or cellulosic ethanol from sustainable feedstocks. It's not their fault our stores and restaurants and coffee shops rely on plastic-coated cups in the first place.

[tarran]

Sooo, people with the right political views should be allowed to pollute.

With that attitude, I cannot imagine how socialist countries come to have such big environmental problems!

[Episiarch]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

My mom was at the first Earth Day ever. At the end of it, she looked around at the stupendous amounts of trash and garbage left behind and decided they weren't serious.

[BigT]

the assumption that what matters is individual virtue.

Think globally, act like an a-hole.

[PapayaSF]

So progs don't believe in individual virtue, but somehow the all-powerful state (consisting of individuals) will do what is right?

[Winston]

it says that combating climate change and moving to an ecologically sustainable society requires adding up hundreds of millions of changes in individual habits and values.

And people wonder why communism failed.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

In the comments they allege the cops told them to leave the trash on the curbs.

Progs lie but would be nice to know if true.

[Derpetologist]

What a pathetic lie.

[PapayaSF]

It was a plot by The Man to make us look bad, dude.

[Irish]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

'For seriously, I wanted to carry my Styrofoam cup with me, but the cops required that I litter!'

[Irish]

How much you want to bet this same person would criticize Hayek for accepting social security?

Do you think he'd buy the argument 'since Hayek had his money taken from him to pay for the program all his life, recouping some of it was a rational decision. It's not his fault a free market solution wasn't available!'

Somehow I doubt it. Also, leaving there were other options besides leaving trash behind. You could have, for example, brought a bag and carried your garbage with you. It isn't the lack of green energy's fault that you're a lazy fucking slob who did more damage to the Earth in one weekend than I'll do in the next two months.

[MJGreen]

I mean, what the fuck is the deflection about styrofoam cups? In their progtopia, is coffee served in cups that instantly dissolve the moment you're finished drinking?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

So does that mean that only CO2 emitted collectively matters? I'd sign up for that.

[GILMORE]

ITS NOT THEIR FAULT - THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM CRITICISM BECAUSE THEY WANT TO FORCE *YOU* TO BE CLEAN, WHICH COMPENSATES FOR EVERYTHING

/proglogic

[Rev-Match]

I would argue they weren't 'Anti-War' then.

It's the power of the TEAM. Also, I contend that progs have never been against war or violence because their ideology requires violence and aggression. So, it just has to be directed by the "right" people against the "right" people.

[Winston]

See the French Left during the French Revolution.

[Agammamon]

Of course not - BSP's actually have jobs they can't just quit to go 'save the planet'. They actually have responsibilities.

[MJGreen]

Pretty much. The outrage in the slogan "No blood for oil" is over the oil, not blood.

[PapayaSF]

It's the same with homelessness, which is apparently only a problem when the President is a Republican.

[Winston]

Also has there ever been a free press so willing to allow itself to be treated that way?

[Derpetologist]

OT

When I was in high school, I remember everyone getting a long rule book. In the inside cover, there was a notice that the administration reserved the right to change any rule for any reason. My thought was why bother with a rule book if you're going to make things up as you go?

[Rev-Match]

Really? We had 'daily planners' that had the code of conduct in the back, but I never read it. Right from wrong is pretty easy when you have morality.

[Derpetologist]

We had planners in Jr High. They had to be signed nightly as a homework check and the teachers had to check them. My dad began signing with an X. He said that the school was setting a terrible example because in the real world, your signature actually means something.

[Tommy_Grand]

Because you don't *usually* need to revise the rule book mid year, so, when some child disobeys, you can slap your hand on the book and yell "Jeezus, it's right here in the gosh darned school rules! Can't you kids read?"

Whenever you need to change the rules to do what you want, you say "well, we did reserve the right to change..."

[Winston]

So have there been any Anti-War rallies? What is the turnout like? Has the DemOp media reported on them?

[GILMORE]

You'd think they might have taken the opportunity to actually 'mention' the issue during the 300,000+ people rally in NYC this weekend.

You think? No, apparently the death of capitalism is a far more urgent concern.

[Sevo]

GILMORE|9.24.14 @ 8:57PM|#
"You'd think they might have taken the opportunity to actually 'mention' the issue during the 300,000+ people rally in NYC this weekend.
You think? No, apparently the death of capitalism is a far more urgent concern."

You laugh, but the SF Chron claimed people were so concerned about climate change, they didn't have time to protest he war.
And as far as I can tell, the writer wasn't laughing.

[Rev-Match]

OT:
I just got around to watching Kmele interview Chris Hedges and I have to give major props to Kmele for keeping his cool through the duration. I was nearly tearing my hair out at the blatant disingenuousnous (did I spell that right?) and voluntary ignorance of Mr. Hedges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ZjXsDKDHQ

[Derpetologist]

It's best not to watch Hedges until you are more skilled in the ways of the Derp.

On a related note, since Hedges often boasts of his fluency in Arabic, it would be delightful to see him debate Brigitte Gabriel, who grew up in Lebanon and who was nearly killed by Muslim terrorists.

[Winston]

Where's Thaddeus Russell and Sheldon Richman on how we can ally with Chris Hedges?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Pretape

[BigT]

We still don't have a forking strategy. We have tactics.

[GILMORE]

"Kyle Lamb"

Everyone tighten your tactical-belt. Shit is going to get cyclic.

[Agile Cyborg]

Gilmore, lamb is awesome grilled with Tzatziki sauce and cucumbers wrapped in olives and tight lettuce.

[PapayaSF]

I have a recipe for homemade gyros that is great. Basically, mix ground lamb and ground beef with spices, form into a large flat patty, bake until nicely brown and crusty, then cut into slices. Put on good flatbread (better than pita) with homemade tzatziki and onions and tomatoes. Yum.

[GILMORE]

Kmele: do not do the rhetorical thing of "pile on questions" such that no one actually addresses any single one of them. Thanks!

[Agile Cyborg]

Gilmore: quit talking into the web winds...

[GILMORE]

What?

[BigT]

You can't connect the dots unless you collect the dots.

Go, NSA! Deroy is Dejerk.

[Rev-Match]

You mean to tell me that local law enforcement should not be trying to fight international crime?

[Agile Cyborg]

Are you an actua l Rev?

[Rev-Match]

"Rev-Match" = Revolution Match: As in, revolution matching one's engine to one's transmission while "downshifting".

[AdamJ]

Travis?

[Whahappan?]

Ah, but can you do it without using the clutch?

[Buddy Bizarre]

I used to do that in a 44k lbs non-synchro truck.

(pats self on back)

[GILMORE]

No UN security resolution? Bitch, no CONGRESSIONAL VOTE?!

[Agile Cyborg]

What does the security orgy care what Gilmore and the Reason commune thinks?

[Rev-Match]

choosing to bomb on the eave of an election

I believe this notion was parodied in 'Iron Sky'. It looks like that parody is well referenced.

[Agile Cyborg]

Parodies are like http://vimeo.com/92767388

[BigT]

When Kucinich is the voice of reason we are all f'd.

[Agile Cyborg]

http://vimeo.com/23112846

[Fist of Etiquette]

Welch goading Denny into talking smack against Barry. Let's get other Dems on the show to match that.

[Agile Cyborg]

Welch meth: http://vimeo.com/2439676

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The journalist class - save a few - has no fucking balls.

[PapayaSF]

What do you mean? They all bravely stand against popular things like racism, sexism, pollution, and poverty. It takes real guts to avoid the groupthink on subjects like those.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If only Obama knew what was going on, he would definitely stop it.

[Derpetologist]

Since the President is playing golf on the public dime, he ought to tell us his score. At least, it would be fun to laugh at.

[Rev-Match]

If it is too high, you may have to sue to get that info.

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 24 September 2014

Icecreamionese Liberation Army-Edition

- Kennedy: "STOP!"..says Kennedy, the Human-Interruptitron - adding a visual component to her otherwise-sonic, oft repeated, 'ashutayooface'. We're as Sanguine as the dress; some women have their 'little black thing' as their Ace in the hole, but Kennedy has RED. She could walk into a room and own it.

- Matt: If ever were there a time Matt needed a PowerSuit, it is now. The Pink withers in the shadow of the blaze of primary color. Its otherwise a decent combo (although we've reiterated that he needs a more-basic lilac tie), just one that looks, well, 'girly' tonight. Kyle Lamb will be thinking, "mmmm. pretty mouth".

- Kmele: 'Boyd Crowder' w/'blue Chambray'? We've never been keen on the whole idea, and this isn't even the best example. We like it (sort of) better with the plaids, because at least then there's the whole, "Redneck Chic" thing. Also, it reminds me of the two 'Brothers Darrell' from Newhart. Here, I just feel like you need Nerd Glasses and a pocket-protector.

Julie: Girl, how can I express my vociferous appreciation for your pulchritude? With a poem perhaps: I shall entitle it, 'Damn'.

Aksante; Gracias; Thank You

[Sevo]

De nada
What's the matter with the clothes I'm wearing/
Don'tcha know that the tie's too wide

[Sevo]

Earworm today.

[GILMORE]

Its still rock and roll to me.

[Sevo]

Ya get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers.
Can't. Get. Rid. Of. It!

[GILMORE]

There are worse fates.

[GILMORE]

Although, for many years i wondered,

"Everybody's talking bout 'Y'all stop funnin'"

...what the FUCK DOES THAT MEAN!?

then I learned

[Sevo]

I don't listen to a lot of music, but I got a dose of BJ somewhere. An elevator?
Over the weekend, I was stuck with 'I've been high in the Rockies under the evergreens'...

[GILMORE]

Which is funny, because no one's ever been in the Rockies and thought, "I wish i was in Long Island"

[GILMORE]

"Which is funny, because no one's ever been in the Rockies and thought, "I wish i was in Long Island"
- Donner Party Excluded

[Sevo]

"- Donner Party Excluded"
That was the Sierra, but points for humor.

[GILMORE]

as far as BJ goes... i think he's like a lot of good songwriters, in that he becomes easy to despise from over-reiteration. But 'the stranger' is still one of the greatest albums ever. The show where he does the 'old grey whistle test'? OMG. Slamming.

The Eagles still suck satans asshole.

[Sevo]

"i think he's like a lot of good songwriters, in that he becomes easy to despise from over-reiteration."
And then there's bad ones like McCartney...

[GILMORE]

I've never ever been a 'beatles' guy, or a McCartney guy *(if there is such a thing)

Never liked his tunes, his voice, his vibe. Lennon i kind of dug because he was more about the rock&roll; / blues.

That said - my singer buddy that i was in a band with used to do a "Baby I'm amazed" that would tear the house down.

[Agammamon]

Get a pistol and blow it out the side of your head.

[GILMORE]

If i were given the chance to go back in time and Kill Hitler? OR Prevent the Eagles from ever getting together, and just sticking to solo careers?...

...I'd do my best to convince the time-travel guy that we could probably manage BOTH if we were efficient about it.

[Sevo]

GILMORE|9.24.14 @ 10:08PM|#
"If i were given the chance to go back in time and Kill Hitler? OR Prevent the Eagles from ever getting together, and just sticking to solo careers?..."

Here I thought you were riffing on The Big Leboski...
Never felt strongly one way or the other, but Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good" always puts a smile on my face.

[GILMORE]

"Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good" always puts a smile on my face.

*Exactly*

Everything each of the Eagles ever did *on their own* was far better than the band.

Even (swallows vomit) Glenn Frey.

To be honest, i dont even hate the Eagles so much. Until i hear them. THEN i hate them with the passion of 1000 Hitlers.

[Sevo]

Agammamon|9.24.14 @ 10:04PM|#
"Get a pistol and blow it out the side of your head."
Some wine and a decent dinner was much less messy.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Next up, beefcake in coach.

[Rev-Match]

THAT is an airline I would use.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Deer. In. The. Headlights.

[GILMORE]

There are black women in Alaska?

On purpose?

[Fist of Etiquette]

DID FOSTER JUST SAY CRAP???

[Fist of Etiquette]

Double porn set up.

[Rev-Match]

I know who we can hire to star. (if we can even afford her anymore)

[Fist of Etiquette]

Libertarians or libertines?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

REALLY KMELE?

[GILMORE]

That is a sad day for America. For shame, Kmele. FOR SHAME.

I hope one day someone says, "Bob Marley WHO?" to you.

[GILMORE]

you couldn't find a less-objectifying pic of the woman he shot?

"No" is an honest answer.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Just like Ronnie sang...

[GILMORE]

Specter scared the shit out of the Ramones while producing 'End of the Century'. He held them hostage at gunpoint while making them do retakes.

he was nuts before it was cool.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Food in Manufacturing Marvels? Is this a first?

[GILMORE]

Were all the Shangri La's dykes?

I genuinely don't know. its a little hot.

[Rock Action]

Wait. If you see this, were any of them? Please clue me in. One of my favorite bands of the 90's after Superchunk covered "Train From Kansas City."

Beloved, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1VY9_x1BzU

[GILMORE]

I am apparently mistaken

I get my 1960s girl-group /pre-punk lore all mixed up. Maybe its just because they were so 'beloved' by so many transgressive rockers I assumed there was some seamy underside to their steez.

[Derpetologist]

Saluting is silly. I believe it started with knights lifting the lids on their helmets so the could talk to the king.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Hmmm...maybe the Roman salute wasn't actually Roman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Actually that looks pretty fucking bad the way he did it.

[Sevo]

He can't be bothered and it shows.
But if this is the worst we had to deal with, I'd be applauding.

[GILMORE]

He had plenty of time.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OH NO IT'S COFFEEGATE - HISTORIANS WILL BE HYPERVENTILATING OVER THIS FOR YEARS!

[Fist of Etiquette]

They should have a live webshow from the Oval. So we could critique everything.

[GILMORE]

matt: 'Deck-or-um'?

De-COOR-um, bro

[Rev-Match]

I am more offended because the coffee is - wait for it - DECAFF!

[Sevo]

I notice Starbucks didn't pay the vig, so no product placement.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Suddenly Obama's not concerned with optics.

[GILMORE]

Cut their 'travel budget'?

Consider this =

either we subsidize Obama's entire '8 year nonstop campaign'...

...or we'd actually have MORE legislation like the ACA.

Which is worse?

[Sevo]

ROADTRIP!
Much cheaper.

[Fist of Etiquette]

House GOP doesn't care how many dago guinea wop greaseball goombas come out of the woodwork...

[Sevo]

No goobers?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Watch The Godfather, you Philistine.

[Sevo]

"you Philistine."

It SHOWS?!

[GILMORE]

Kyle Lamb is so tactical, he clears rooms he's not even in.

[BigT]

Let's put lots of boots on the ground. ...

Empty. Leave the grunts at home.

[PapayaSF]

Let's send Code Pink so we'll have Birkenstocks on the ground.

[Derpetologist]

Boots on the ground.

Where else are boots expected to be?

Why not just say "ground troops" or "infantry"?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Where else? Under yo mama's bed.

[Sevo]

That's Jo Mama to you.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Forget it, Kmele. It's Chinatown.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[GILMORE]

Kieeeeeeeeya! DOBBS

[Rufus J. Firefly]

You almost made up for not knowing who Phil was Kmele with that.

Also. I agree with Kennedy. Not very statesman like by Obama to bring Ferguson up.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

It's like an open invitation to all the UN "human rights" bodies and associated NGOs to swarm over this like vultures.

[GILMORE]

Speaking of Obama at the UN - you'd think he'd have maybe *not* simply re-used Bush's notes? I mean, seriously. Does he not have any people to come up with new stuff?

[Sevo]

The road-guy was bragging that nearly every president breaks his promises!
So the current defense is that he's not worse than Bush!

[The artist known Dunphy]

Let's look at the ACTUAL stats. 2012 New York City population 8 MILLION,,, NYPD Uniform Staff 35000 ... 23 Million Citizen Contacts...5 million radio assignments... 250,000 weapon assignments... 26,000 arrests involving unlawful weapons use... 5700 involving unlawful gun use... 1374 shooting incidents investigated... 60 officers total fired their guns in only 45 officer involved shooting incidents... 14 subjects shot and injured... 16 subjects shot and killed... 13 officers shot and injured. 0 killed. let's look at those stats. Ive heard people say NYPD is TRIGGER HAPPY and they are AFRAID OF GETTING SHOT BY POLICE. Of course overwhelmingly the people shot are doing really bad stuff, but regardless out of 8.2 million people, 30 were shot by police. 0.00000365853 of people in new york are shot by police each year. How many people are shot/calls for service? 0.00000125. How many people are shot by NYPD per shooting incident they respond to? 0.02183406113. Officer shoot one person for every 800,000 calls for service! Officers shoot 1 person for every 8221 incidents involving weapons they respond to. OMG THEY ARE SO TRIGGER HAPPY!!!!!!!

[GILMORE]

"Ive heard people say NYPD is TRIGGER HAPPY and they are AFRAID OF GETTING SHOT BY POLICE"

I've lived in NYC my entire life, and I've never once heard anyone actually say that.

Do you have an example?

[The artist known Dunphy]

Everybody and their mother was saying it after both the Sean Bell and the Amadou Diallo shootings do you really need me to Google all the man in the street interviews?
Hillary Clinton infamously referred to the Diallo shootings before any trial or review had occurred as the Diallo 'murder'

[GILMORE]

Yes, when a single guy is shot...what, 41 times? for having a phone?

...people WILL say things like that. Also - wasnt that 15 years ago?

are you just getting around to 'debunking' that thing... Now?

[Whahappan?]

it was a wallet, bigorati, so that makes it OK. hth
smooches!

[The artist known Dunphy]

Above post made in response to claims that New York PD are trigger-happy and cavalier with use of force.
Note that in 2012, a randomly chosen person in New York City was less than one 100th as likely to be shot by a New York City police officer as a New York City police officer was to be shot by a person in New York City.
Remember New York City population at the time was 8 million and in actuality they have an even larger service population since for example Manhattan population more than doubles during the daytime so disparity is actually greater.
I have heard morons say even female morons that they are afraid of being shot by NYPD.
When you look at the gender disparity the chance of a random female being shot by an NYPD officer is almost incalculably small and even when you narrow down to convicted violent felon females involved in violent crimes it is still very very small.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

This is like Mr. Rogers' song "you can never go down the drain." I've never worried about going down the bathtub drain or getting shot by the NYPD until you guys keep bringing it up.

[Sevo]

"Note that in 2012, a randomly chosen person in New York City was less than one 100th as likely to be shot by a New York City police officer as a New York City police officer was to be shot by a person in New York City."

So we have an alternative here? Is that what you're saying?
It's OK that cops kill innocent people since they don't do it too often?
Well, I guess that's right up there with 'Obo prolly isn't worse than Bush!'

[GILMORE]

(mary?)

[Sevo]

Dunno if you were here then. There was a (claimed) cop, Dunphy.
He tried to be 'reasonable', but when I mentioned that cops are just the janitors of society, I got the 'brave, blue-uniformed, protectors of (...), due respect...!"
Then I tried: 'Uh, you know YOU work for ME, right?' No need to mention where that went.
I think Epi was REALLY on his ass on a regular basis (or Sloopy?). Anyhow, he finally bailed.
So, Mary? Dunphy? Someone who was here when Dunphy was?
Random troll?

[GILMORE]

oh, I know 'Real' Dunphy. He wasn't as bad as ... well, ok, he could be pretty bad. But he wasn't a troll. he was legit. Then he'd talk about his powerlifting and stuff.

No, I meant the retard here.

[Rock Action]

No, I think Dunphy was always a troll and between his work with the Chili Peppers and his powerlifting/surfing exploits, you kinda had to be here every day. Sloop called him out when his stories started to get really weird. Dunphy was an NR alias/nom-de-plume and nobody would have chosen it unless that person was deliberately trying to piss people here off.

In short, always a troll. This is actually meta-trolling. Trolls out in full force tonight.

[GILMORE]

Well, I defer to your better judgement. But i have vague memories of there being a 'real dunphy' then various people putting on his costume.

Retard here seems like one person making various vain attempts at different M.O.'s

[tarran]

Dunphy claimed to be a cop in Martha's Vinyard. He was pretty ignorant of the corruption in the Boston PD. This made me question if he really had been a cop in the commonwealth, because the boston police are world famous here.

I always got the sense he was a cop wannabe who knew just enough to pass himself off to the outside observer as an insider.

[The artist known Dunphy]

I used to work in Martha's vineyard/

I work in the greater seattle area.

I know just enough to consistently make you et al look like morons and i routinely spank the ignorati on case law, const law, procedure, statistics, etc.

as for powerlifting, for the trillionth time, i almost exclusively compete in (OLing) WEIGHTLIFTING, not Powerlifting, iow snatch and clean and jerk.

I have won a national title in pling over 12 yrs ago, but almost exclusively compete in olifting.

[Rock Action]

Jesus. This is ridiculous.

[Rock Action]

he also claimed to be a cop in Seattle. GILMORE has been here way longer than me, I was just here for most of the dunphy heydays. GILMORE could be right about the original dunph.

Trolls are out in full force tonight, BTW. I hit one in another thread and engaged it.

[GILMORE]

i don't mean to offer myself as a 'connoisseur' of retard-trolls...

...but who am i kidding.

No, i recall the 'sane days' of dunphy. he wasn't this doofus. We talked about sports. He got fed up with the same argument over and over (particularly w/ Epi) and split.

This *was* it so happens right around the time of the emergence of the White Indian.... circa.. 2007?

Anyhoo. whatever. night all.

[Sevo]

Sorry.

[The artist known Dunphy]

Cops almost never kill innocent people the point is people's apprehension of risk from police and belief system as to how often cops shoot people are grossly skewed from data.
Again in the city of 8 million people and with the service population much higher, in one year cops in New York City shot a grand total of 30 people.

Even an armed criminals chance of being shot by police as my statistic show are staggeringly tiny. Even when cops responded to incidents involving deadly force in progress etc. there were thousands of arrests made for every shooting.

If you look at how many of the shooting incidents involved convicted felon involved in violent crime etc. it's even more clear that all these people who claim they are afraid of being shot by police are engaged in a ridiculous fear.

Again conservatively there were approximately 30 people shot by New York City police officer's out of the service population well in excess of 10 million.

There were 13 cops shot but none killed out of a population of about 35,000. The statistics are actually somewhat more dangerous for the average patrol officer since the shootings are disproportionately skewed towards patrol officers versus those in administrative training investigatory etc. positions.

It's clear that the dangers of being shot and that's due to good officer safety etc. as a New York City police officer is not particularly high.

Many here downplay the risks since they only look at officers killed.

[GILMORE]

That *is* interesting.

So, did you like the first or second Captain America movie more?

[The artist known Dunphy]

the point is that you have to look at officers SHOT, not shot and killed to get a decent view of the stats, since officers disproportionately survive shootings for a # of reasons, but primariliy based on vests. when you compare pre vest to post vest stats, officers getting shot as compared to shot and killed ratios substantially diverge

again, 30 people in NYPD in one year shot by police, roughly half killed

13 cops shot from NYPDNONE killed.

I have had one good friend shot and killed line of duty and one killed by a drunk driver.

but over a dozen friends have either been stabbed or shot but lived.

i have been shot at but not hit, fortunately.

policework, especially given good officer safety techniques etc. is not particularly dangerous, but it is far more dangerous than only looking at officers killed by gunfire suggests, since we are far more likely to survive gunfire than a person w/o a vest (and also almost always have emergency medical backup available quickly, a good survival mindset, etc.) which also contribute.

again, the stats show NYPD officers VERY VERY restrained in use of force, concerns about being shot BY NYPD ridiculously overestimated, and concerns of a NYPD officer being shot is small, if you are a patrol officer in a swing or nightshift, it's a concern, but pretty unlikely (roughly in NYC about 10/22,000 per year) but well over 200 times more likely tha being shot by a NYPD officer is a concern to a nonconvivted felon or engaging in felony male.

[GILMORE]

So, Winter Soldier then.

Me, i thought it was a little much. I mean, do we really need that character again? also, the WWII theme was more compelling.

[The artist known Dunphy]

havent seen it yet.

too busy fighting for justice, being a working class hero, fighting against police bad acts and for those falsely accused of bad acts, etc.

there are a million stories in the nekkid city. as a cop, i proudly try to participate in stories involving heroism, good, and just general bad-assedness 🙂

all with tremendous humbleness of course!

:l

[BigT]

Don't forget all the citizens killed by cops using other means - choking, beating, etc.

Your comparison stats are BS. Most people are not involved in cop contacts. In 1300 pig on citizen contacts with guns no pigs snuffed but 16 citizens murdered, so citizens are infinitely more likely to die in these confrontations.

[blackjack]

Ot, but I could not stop laughing this morning , reading this:

http://www.latimes.com/local/l.....story.html

[The artist known Dunphy]

Many people point out racial disparity in shooting victims as evidence of alleged racism by police. They ignore the racial disparity in cops shot by suspects of course.
Heather McDonald etc. have done statistical analysis for example that shows that approximately 40% of officers shot in the line of duty are shot by black male suspects in middle age brackets a group that when you account for age race and gender makes up less than 4% of the population.

[The artist known Dunphy]

Cops are clearly sexist since less than 5% of those shot by cops are women, A group that makes up a substantial majority of the street population since they are already a majority of the population and since man are incarcerated at a much higher rate are an even larger proportion of the street population.
I have yet to hear any of the racial disparity hucksters who claimed it disproportionate shooting results equals racism make the same claim about gender disparities.

Or age disparities.
Note also that Heather McDonald has pointed out that certain racial minorities who are less prone to commit part one violent crimes are also less prone than white males per capita to be shot by police such as Japanese-Americans.

Again there is substantial disparity based on age gender race etc. as to go get shot by police. In fact just as being a product of out of wedlock births is one of the strongest statistical predictors of criminal behavior and incarceration, it is one of the strongest predictors of people who are shot by police and get shot by police.

Criminologist and sociologists have a long agreed that whatever the causal versus corrolation issues, it's just amazing how strong a predictor of part one crime participation and victimization being a product of a fatherless household and out of wedlock births is.

[The artist known Dunphy]

Remember also that when determinations of age gender race etc. of part one crimes suspects are documented the metric of choice is the national crime victimization survey in other words it's based upon the observations of crime victims as to who the offenders are, not cops not prosecutors and not the criminal justice system. This is a particularly strong metric especially because so much of crime is intraracial. Even a reason bigot it is hard pressed to claim that African-American victims of violent crime and remember they are several times more likely to be victims of violent crime then white Americans, are prone to falsely identify their victimizers as African-American due to prejudice against blacks! Lol

[GILMORE]

What, i missed that?

[Sevo]

If you are trying to convince most of the people who post here that cops are just wonderful people doing their jobs, and you're trying to do it with cherry-picked data, well, have at it.
Reason can always use the clicks.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Even a reason bigot"

The bigorati, if you will.

How many Morgan Fairchilds have you bench-pressed?

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Good catch, probably not our old Dunphy.

[The artist known Dunphy]

same dunphy.

bigoratio, cop-o-crat, and happy to report that in 20+ yrs of police work not a SINGLE USE OF FORCE COMPLAINT< let alone sustained complaint.

in fact, i have NEVER had a complaint lodged by a suspect or arrestee. I've had less than 5 total in 20+ yrs

ive used almost every form of force imaginable, yet no complaints.

imo and ime that's part skill, part luck, and in large part due to treating people with respect. imnsho, even people who have had force used against them are way way way less likely to grumble about it if you do not act like a dick about it.

example, i once had to strike a guy several times very hard with my baton (he was choking my partner. I could have shot him). when he initially grumbled i was quite respectful but politely pointed out how his force did justify me to shoot him. he admitted this and never complained but i always called him "sir" and treaated him with respect and immediately tended to his injuries as well as helping him get quick care at the ER.

the exact same use of (justified) force is going to be much more likely to get a complaint if the officer using force VERBALIZES arrogance, braggadacio, contempt, belittlement, profanity, etc. which imo is not at all uncommon when the adrenaline flows

[The artist known Dunphy]

imo, one of the greatest benefits of platform and cagesports is helping develop calm, grace, and gentleness in violent situations (successin jiu jitsu as well as strength sports very dependent on martialling adrenaline, calm under pressure, controlling fight or flight etc.)...

a cop who is respectful, calm, polite, but firm, compassionate etc. to those who have used force against him and/or to those he has used force against, is MUCH MUCH more likely to get positive outcome, eliminate risk of IIU complaints, etc.

as in the rest of life, attitude and respect towards fellow man is at least as important as WHAT you do. how you speak to people, etc.

so many of the people here who are bitter and report endless bad encounters with police ime are the type of people who through their attitude inviTE bad things. cops are human.

[Warty]

DWT: Note that he's crediting his gay little powerlifting hobby for him not being an asshole...while he's on here being a gigantic asshole. Sounds like our Dunphy.

VERBALIZES arrogance, braggadacio, contempt, belittlement

Oh, it's rich.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Sounds like our Dunphy.

Yeah, I posted too soon. Maybe I was in denial. I saw this handle posting in a dead thread maybe a week ago or so and was really hoping it was a sock.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Many people point out"

There are some who say...

[The artist known Dunphy]

right because the morons and ignorati don't routinely blast the NYPD for alleged racist use of force, racist shooting, trigger happibness, murderousness, and brutality, all of which is ridiculous if you look at the actual stats.

NYC is a relatively safe city in general, and NYPD is an extremely reserved agency vis a vis uof

ive compared their stats to my agencies and my agency has a MUCH higher chance of being shot line of duty AND a much higher chance of being in a shooting line of duty, which is not surprising.

that's due to a # of factors, some of which i cant go into as it would help identify my agency, but as a general rule of thumb, NYPD is one of the safer agencies to work for amongst urban depts

[The artist known Dunphy]

btw, i have volunteered several times to be a "pilot program" for future mandatory body cameras in my agency!

no greater protective tool for a good cop than a body camera. It is to false and specious complaints, what a vest ,a seatbelt , physical fitness, mental fitness, and a good verbal judo grasp are to line of duty injuries - a tremendous deterrent.

sadly my two friends who were murdered line of duty did happen to be very smart, very fit, and yet still succumbed e.g.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15.....e-williams

[Sevo]

In that case, you're the cop apologist known as Dunphy, and you can buzz off.
You STILL work for me and you are STILL society's janitor

[The artist known Dunphy]

i work for everybody and nobody in particular and i am amongst the last involved in a career filled with nobility heroism service frustration love courage bravery mindnumbing boredom sheer terror pain pleasure clueless administrators wise salty street cops a sometimes loving public a sometimes hostile public but most of all the best job in the world if you are a people person interested in effecting positive change and doing good works

[Sevo]

The artist known Dunphy|9.24.14 @ 11:23PM|#
"i work for everybody and nobody in particular and i am amongst the..."

Regardless of your obvious drunken state, you work for every damn citizen you encounter, and I presume you say "Sir" or "Madam" to every one of them, since they pay your salary.

[Cdr Lytton]

Not dunphy, mary off her meds again.

[The artist known Dunphy]

a difference vbetween real cops (vs copocrats) and reason bigorati is that we have firsthand experience with use of force, violence, etc. that most here don't

in 20 yrs of police work i have

had two friends murdered line of duty (one shot by a BGD assmunch and one killed by a drunk driver)...

been shot at
been in shooting(s)
been feloniously assaulted (concussion resulted etc.)
tackled knife wielding suspects in lieu of shooting or holding back and waiting for them to further hurt themselves or others.
seen several friends suffering minor to serious injuries from collsiions, primarily drunk driver related on duty
used baton, firearm, taser (only as deterrent, didnt have to fire but successfully used as deterrent at least a dozen times, which is its major benefit), gun, automobile, fist, elbow, baton, shod foot, carotid control (similiar to rear naked choke), pepper spray etc.
participated in riot squad during WTO where i witnessed remarkable restraint by cops and general assmunchery by anarchist morons not at all interested in free speech, but just interested in breaking stuff and placing innocent marchers and cops at risks
been spat at, flipped off, hugged, kissed, and even had one person literally get down on their knees and thank me profusely

[The artist known Dunphy]

seen oceans of blood, seen somebody blow their head near clean off from about two feet away, applied pressure to spurting arterial wounds, done an ocean rescue after taking off gunbelt and boots, pulled victims out of a burning building because firemen were late on scene, witnessed one incident of obvious excessive force at which i gladly testified to IIU, seen countless acts of cop and noncop bravery, heroism and selflessness

it's a wonderful life y0

[Sevo]

The artist known Dunphy|9.24.14 @ 11:20PM|#
"a difference vbetween real cops (vs copocrats) and reason bigorati is that we have firsthand experience with use of force, violence, etc. that most here don't"

Which matters not in the least.
I also do not have firsthand experience at cleaning up aisle #4, and I have no desire to do so.
We, as a society hire people like you to do so, and shut up about it; that's you job.
Is that clear?

[The artist known Dunphy]

its about the most noble and rewarding job on earth.

consider the challenge...

for those truly interested in a better country - consider a career as a peace officer!!!!

[Sevo]

The artist known Dunphy|9.24.14 @ 11:21PM|#
"its about the most noble and rewarding job on earth."

Fine.
Which matters not in the least.
I also do not have firsthand experience at cleaning up aisle #4, and I have no desire to do so.
We, as a society hire people like you to do so, and shut up about it; that's you job.
Is that clear?

[Whahappan?]

Would that there were such anymore. Peace officer, that's rich!

[Warty]

Jesus, he must be shitfaced. This is pitiful.

[Sevo]

Yeah, I guess the spell-check is getting a work out; the 'logic' and run-on sentences are pathetic.

[Cdr Lytton]

It's mary.

[Warty]

The voice is all wrong for her, she's always been terrible at attempting to sound like someone else, and it's not really her style in any case.

[Cdr Lytton]

I disagree. The verbal diarrhea is consistant with her MO combined with mining source material (White Indian or old threads in this case). She's been in her manic phase for the last several days. Briannnnn, black blood, etc. are all her socks.

[Sevo]

There was the jefXXX who showed up last week; smelled strongly of mary.
I see that Mike is still listed as "Publisher" and Mike has been pretty active in clearing mary's and merkin's posts. Last I saw jefXXX was still there, and this issue of Dunphie hasn't been wiped.
Mike has 'way better evidence than we do; Dunphy never set the world on fire for smarts.

[GILMORE]

(*i'm back)

I believe the Commander is correct. The long-winded incoherence is the tell.

Just my $0.02

[Sevo]

"The long-winded incoherence is the tell"

That was not the tell of "Dunphy", but I'm not sure "Dunphy" sober = "Dunphy" drunk.
The posts look NHRA-fuel standards to me; 100%.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

I'm back on the fence. If it's mary it's one of her better performances.

[BigT]

It's Dunphy or another pig. Look at how quickly the posts appear. No way Mary or a non-porker could compose that fast and emotionally with the proper level of detail consistent with the historical Dunphy.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Fuck him, we've got bigger problems.

Two Ebola patients, who died of the virus in separate communities in Nimba County have reportedly resurrected in the county. The victims, both females, believed to be in their 60s and 40s respectively, died of the Ebola virus recently in Hope Village Community and the Catholic Community in Ganta, Nimba.

News of the resurrection of the two victims has reportedly created panic in residents of Hope Village Community and Ganta at large, with some citizens describing Dorris Quoi as a ghost, who shouldn't live among them. Since the Ebola outbreak in Nimba County, this is the first incident of dead victims resurrecting.

I can only assume that the Zombie Apocalypse is upon us. I really thought it was going to start in New Jersey.