Reason-Rupe Public Opinion Survey

Millennials Don't Like Either Party, Democrats Viewed as the Better of Two Bad Options


Reason-Rupe has a new survey and report out on millennials—find the report here.

Millennials don't have much confidence in either of the two major political parties. When asked who they trust most to handle a series of issues, neither Democrats nor Republicans receive a majority of support on any of the 15 issues surveyed. Instead pluralities say they trust "neither" party to handle 12 of the 15 issues.

Pluralities trust Democrats the most on gay marriage, the environment, and poverty. Republicans only marginally exceed the Democrats on promoting entrepreneurship. In fact, even Republican millennials don't trust the Republican Party across most of the issues. 

Half of millennials (50%) say they trust neither party to handle privacy, with 27 percent trusting Democrats and 17 percent saying the same of Republicans. Dissatisfaction with both parties is understandable given that both parties have staked nearly the same position on the issue and both President Obama and President Bush expanded surveillance programs. Those who disagree with the status quo on domestic surveillance lack a partisan alternative to represent their views.

Likewise, millennials don't have many options to choose from if they care about fiscal responsibility either. Large pluralities trust neither party on government spending and the budget deficit.

Notice—these two issues, spending and the deficit, have historically advantaged Republicans, yet today less than a quarter of young adults say they trust Republicans to handle these issues now.* Instead, more trust Democrats (3 out of 10) than Republicans.

Other issues that have traditionally advantaged Republicans, such as taxes and foreign policy, don't garner support for either party and see Republicans losing ground to Democrats. A third of millennials trust Democrats to handle taxes and foreign policy, a quarter trust Republicans, and nearly four in 10 trust neither.

Although civil liberties and fiscal responsibility are important issues for millennials, the economy and jobs are given highest priority. Neither party has convinced a majority that their approach is best. However, nearly twice as many trust Democrats (37%) as Republicans (21%) to promote job creation. Another 37 percent say neither party is best at promoting jobs in the economy.

Drug policy is another issue where both parties take similar positions and millennials trust neither. Forty-one percent say neither party can adequately handle drug policy, but slightly more trust Democrats (32%) than Republicans (21%).

The only issue on which Republicans could credibly compete with Democrats is promoting entrepreneurship: 28 percent trust Republicans and 27 percent trust Democrats. While Republicans talk about promoting small business, start-ups, and entrepreneurship, it is possible that young people either have not heard this message or don't think Republicans are serious or competent on the matter. However, millennials don't think Democrats will do a very good job either in fostering entrepreneurship either.

While millennials have little confidence in Republicans to handle important issues, their view of Democrats isn't much better. On issues that Democrats have traditionally had an advantage on, such as education, immigration, and health care, trust in Democrats doesn't exceed 40 percent. Nevertheless, support for Democratic handling is double that of Republicans for education (37 to 17 percent) and immigration (37 to 18 percent).

While a slim majority (51%) say they have a favorable opinion of the Affordable Care Act, the Democratic overhaul of the health care system, only 36 percent of millennials say they trust Democrats to handle health care overall. Only 21 percent trust Republicans; a plurality (37%) say neither party can properly handle health care issues.

Even Republicans Don't Trust the Republican Party

Another reason Democrats are handily beating Republicans is that even Republican millennials trust the Democratic approach on a number of issues. Nearly a third of Republican millennials prefer Democrats' handling of same-sex marriage and the environment, and a quarter prefers Democrats' handling of poverty. No more than 15 percent of Democratic millennials trust Republicans on any issue.

Compiling these results into a Party Trust Index shows that not even Republican millennials trust the Republican Party to competently handle the nation's most pressing concerns. On all 15 issues combined, only 47 percent of Republican millennials primarily trusted the Republican Party while 69 percent of Democratic millennials trusted the Democratic Party.

Political science research has shown that political independents tend to lean one partisan way or the other, but millennial independents are still overwhelmingly unwilling (79%) to endorse the parties on the issues. Of all millennials, 28 percent refused to endorse either political party on any of the 15 issues surveyed.

Among the millennial cohort, Republicans are no longer viewed as most competently able to handle issues on which they have historically had the advantage. While Democrats aren't viewed favorably either, they are viewed as the better of two bad options. Given millennials' low level of confidence in both major political parties, it is less surprising that more than half initially say they are independent rather than affiliate with a partisan label they don't trust.

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To learn more about millennials, check out Reason-Rupe's new report.

NEXT: Millennials Don't Like Either Party, Democrats Viewed as the Better of Two Bad Options

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  1. If you’re young and you’re not a Democrat…

    1. …don’t let your professors know.

    2. You’ll never get laid.

    3. Actually, I was 100% against LBJ’s Vietnam adventure, which was a very big issue of my youth.

      I wasn’t a Democrat then – more of a revolutionary – in the non-violent fashion.

      Now that I’ve had another 40 years of experience, I am more certain than ever that the Dems are right on MANY more issues than the far right GOP of today.

      Not to say I attend the party meetings, but I agree with about 60% of the Dems platform, while only 25% of the GOP’s.

      In reality, that means I am extremely unlikely to vote for the GOP or help them in any way….as long as they are controlled by the fundamentalists know-nothings.

      If, on the other hand, they actually change (doubtful) from being “just the opposition” to coming up with common sense policies, I’ll reconsider.

  2. When I was a college kid, I thought the Democrats weren’t liberal enough. Herp-a-derp.

    1. We college Nader supporters got in a shouting match with the young Democrats, or whatever. They were upset that our fliers weren’t printed in a union shop. Whatever bitchez…we didn’t pay for those copies.

  3. Seriously, if you like either party, something is seriously wrong with you, and you should strongly consider a stint in a re-reality institution.

    1. You don’t like parsing through the variant tastes and textures of two different shit sandwiches?

      1. Hey! They’re not two shit sandwiches! One’s a giant douche!

        1. Why are you eating Douche?

          1. Salt and vinegar chips, actually.

    2. Note that almost half of self-identified republican millennials distrust the GOP, while over 2/3 of self-identified democrat millennials implicitly trust the Dem Party.

      And yet the left continues to abide the lie that they are the critical thinking and nuanced bunch.

      1. Young people care about the environment more than they do the Creationist pablum the GOP believes in.

        1. Zoom! Right over your head.

          1. I doubt there’s ever been a point that hasn’t been there.

            1. True, but this one was at cruising altitude.

          2. “Critical thinking” is the bar that GOP Creationist types cannot hurdle.

            Sorry if you cannot understand that.

            GOPers believe in fairy shit – see Rick Santelli and Santorum.

            1. CHRISTFAGS!!11!!!BUSHPIGS!!1!!!!

            2. EMERGENCY ALERT

              FLASH DERP WATCH


            3. About that:


              You’re as full of shit as always, taint.

            4. Creationists and climate change believers are engaging in the same level of critical thought: blindly following what their leaders tell them is true.

              1. what about creation deniers?

                1. what about creation deniers?

                  *mind explodes*

                2. “You didn’t buildcreate that!”

            5. Thanks for the nuance.

          3. I find it utterly fascinating how much the current iteration of the left involves policies and beliefs that deny reality. The right does this, too, but it seems to do so only in certain discrete areas, not across the board.

            1. That’s why I see the Ds as such a threat. Their ideas never work, and it’s always because of wreckers. If they can just force every man, woman, and child to play along, then their genius will be realized. When the Seattle minimum wage flops, they’re going to blame outsiders. Chicago’s gun control failure? Outsider’s fault. CA’s crumbling tax base? Texas’ fault.

              1. A good and useful idea doesn’t need coercion to get most people to adopt it. Bad ideas often do.

                1. Statism in a nutshell

            2. Wait…

              We deny reality? The best decades of the middle class and American prosperity occurred AFTER all those bad bad socialist policies – and much of that continues today (some screwed up by the selfish Right)……

              Yet that is “bad” and “does not work”?

              My God. You saw clearly what “The Right” does during the GW Regime…….and you say they only deny reality here and there?

              This is truly fantastic….to say nothing of it’s incredible partisan nature.

              I guess the stock market going from the GW influenced 7K to a Big O 17K isn’t a good thing? Wow……if you guys really want money, there it is! Real Money.

              1. No actually it’s not, since that jump in stock prices is due almost wholly to inflation and artificial bubbles. Not to mention population growth which is exceeding capital growth (that’s a bad thing).

                So no, not real money, but thanks once again for putting your economic illiteracy on display.

          4. It has proven that, when you’re submerged in a sea of shit, most things do tend to go over your head.

      2. Have you ever considered that critical thinking may have led them to a CONCLUSION?

        That’s a bit of what democracy is about – voting against folks who don’t seem to have your interests and your idea of “freedom” in mind.

        Unlike the current myths, there are not two sides to every story. Sometimes there is one side. Sometimes there are 10 sides.

        In the case of which of the two powerful parties is better for the general happiness and welfare of the people of these United States, that’s hardly worth debating. The Dems win.

        This is why very stale minds lean right. It’s why Fox and Rushbo have audiences who AVERAGE in their mid or late 60’s.

        Last time I looked, Silicon Valley nor top research facilities didn’t contain vast numbers of those brilliant 75 year olds. Instead, they contain people who think critically and logically – with REASON. Yeah, the same people polled in this article.

    3. If you vote for either party, something is seriously wrong with you.

    4. I consider republicans pretty much democrats with bibles. I wouldn’t give half a thimble of cold spit for either party.

  4. Democrats are much more likely to tow the party lion. Gee, there’s a shocker.

  5. However, nearly twice as many trust Democrats (37%) as Republicans (21%) to promote job creation.

    Which means that 37% of them believe in the government stimulus fairy.

    1. Multiplier!!

    2. In their defense, there are a lot of high paying jobs in DC.

      1. And half the reason commentariat has fled there to find them.

    3. this is nothing more that the cool-kids like dems. nothing more.

  6. Lol “On all 15 issues combined, only 47 percent of Republican millennials primarily trusted the Republican Party” this is all as Mitt Romney portended.

    1. Mormon mysticism, I tellz ya

  7. I work with and supervise kids in this age range. They aren’t all that political–in the traditional sense–but all of them are not socially conservative. Any argument or policy they see as based in sexism, racism or religiously-driven bigotry is an absolute non-starter.

    You can either bitch and moan about why they are like this, or you can go after their vote by purging socially conservative factions in your party (or at least shutting them the fuck up.)

    1. Most youths my age seem to base all their political allegiances on hash-tags and buzzwords, if you can’t explain your entire political ideology in less than 40 characters your not worth the time.

      1. THIS, unfortunately. I’ve tried getting my peers to read papers or short econ texts (Economics in One Lesson) and they whine about having to read that much. If an idea can’t be expressed in a meme, a hashtag, or a 3-minute farce of an interview on some comedy central show, then it’s not worth their time.

        And it has to be funny. We don’t pay attention to anything that doesn’t mock and ridicule a straw man of the “opposing” side’s viewpoint.

        1. The Democrats to their credit have a pretty good handle on how to market to kids. The Republicans are an embarrassment to everyone on this front.

          1. You know who else successfully targeted marketing towards the youth?

            1. McDonalds?

              1. I always thought of them as targeting black people. Seriously, every McDonald’s commercial is black people.

                Fuck, now I want McDonalds.

                1. “I’m Lovin’ it”

                  1. The thought briefly crossed my mind, but I’m going to be at the airport in an hour, so Baja Fresh wins.

                2. Once you go black, you never go back.

            2. American Girl?

            3. The Old Man with Candy?

          2. The Democrats to their credit have a pretty good handle on how to marketpander to kids.

        2. Planned that way. Disinterested and uneducated people are easy to control. Advertising agencies learned long ago how easy it is to manipulate people and their tactics were adopted by the educational system and politicians. Technological advances were their holy grail because they provided the best system of herding the sheep towards the conformity in thought and act that the aristocracy of the past never dreamed possible.

      2. if you can’t explain your entire political ideology in less than 40 characters your not worth the time.

        This is good! I’d rather live among people who consider politics to be unimportant and a waste of their time than live among people who are consumed by politics and believe that every aspect of their lives is intertwined with politics.

        1. The irony is that it means so much more to them, they just lack any depth in the formation of their feelz.

        2. I was going to protest. Then I thought, “what’s my ideology? hmmm….’leave me alone and I’ll leave you alone’. If I’m counting right, that’s exactly 40 characters, INCLUDING The spaces.

          OK, I’m close – fair point!

      3. You guys do that every other second.

        Free Markets

        That fits…

        1. How many did the VA kill today?

    2. And according to the poll results, purge the fiscal conservatives, too while you’re at it, if you *really* want the millennial vote.


        1. Better dead than read.

    3. They don’t know much but they do know buzz words. Their prog teachers and media have made them like trained seals who bark at the sight of fish.

      I don’t find them universally conservative or liberal. What they do all have in common, however, is never having had the experience of someone really questioning their assumptions.

      1. That must make them very…uncomfortable.

      2. Young people are always idealistic and most don’t spend much time or make an effort to think beyond the moment or the next day. It takes either a personal experience or simply aging that wakes them up to reality. Millennials have grown up under the illusion that the government exists to make life better and that the experts will always have their best interests at heart when the reality is as government continues to expand into controlling every aspect of life and the experts have proven to be wrong, it will be too late for them.

    4. They aren’t all that political–in the traditional sense–but all of them are not socially conservative

      I agree, but there is more to it than that. They are very conformist in many respects and have largely accepted what they’ve been taught in school. Dissent is minimal and where it exists, it conforms to what the ruling class in the Potomac wants. Consider the Occupy Movement: a poorly organized dissent which fizzled out way before a movement spearheaded by grandpa (Tea Party). What did it want? The same things the ruling class wants (more state control over the economy and the means for more people to enter the university system while having the costs fronted by the productive elements).

      In a sense it is difficult to expect much more out of them — they are coming from 10-12 years of indoctrination in the social sciences in an environment with virtually no real-world incentive systems.

      1. in an environment with virtually no real-world incentive systems.

        We really don’t appreciate how the “everyone gets a trophy” cultural practice really fucked over my cogenerationalists.

    5. I’m not socially conservative either, but democrats aren’t actually any better than republicans, they’re just the other extreme of the social engineering scale. Our congress critters, at least on the federal level, have no constitutional authority to be social or economic engineers.

      1. “Our congress critters, at least on the federal level, have no constitutional authority to be social or economic engineers.”

        Read more

        insure domestic Tranquility
        promote the general Welfare

        I suggest looking up the MANY SCOTUS decisions which make your point – well, wrong! Unless you are the single arbiter of what is or is not constitutional. In that case, I apologize.

        “Helvering v. Davis, 301 U.S. 619 (1937), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court, which held that Social Security was constitutionally permissible as an exercise of the federal power to spend for the general welfare, and did not contravene the 10th Amendment. The Court defended the constitutionality of the Social Security Act of 1935, requiring only that welfare spending be for the common benefit as distinguished from some mere local purpose.”

        1. I think people (i.e. you) need to stop considering that just because a law is okay by the supremes, that it must have been okayed in the constitution (or basic morality even).
          Egregious example: In what world does growing your own marijuana plant count as interstate commerce? Using this logic, everything, even non-transactions, is interstate commerce, and gov has no effective limit on it’s reach until the supremes change their mind (Angel v Raich, I think)

          1. While I agree that Bush v Gore, Citizens United and various other decisions are just plain wrong, my example above is one of many – by many different courts – which uphold the premise that the General Welfare is one (well, really ALL) of the reasons for our Gubment existing.

            Even navigation, defense, post, etc…’s all general welfare, prosperity and happiness based because societies of the past were constantly being screwed by invasions, lack of communication and transportation, etc.

            Commerce is good. Defense is good…..but then saying education, health, financial security, etc. are NOT….that’s a reach.

            “We the People” can, over time, decide what the proper size and function of government is. As it stands now, I think our government is quite a bit smaller in % of GDP than many so-called advanced nations.

            I know many here like to scream that the sky is falling, but the facts show otherwise. We are nowhere near the breaking point when it comes to our spending on the General Welfare…

            Note that even that figures is likely lower already – because it was measured backwards during the Great Bush Recession. Still, compare us to other nations – and either:
            1. We are nothing special in terms of government spending – in fact, in the middle or low end compared to some.


            2. The entire civilized world is about to fall apart because these figures are too hight.

            I’d pick door #1

            1. “I suggest looking up the MANY SCOTUS decisions which make your point – well, wrong!”…”While I agree that Bush v Gore, Citizens United and various other decisions are just plain wrong”

              This is why I absolutely despise Leftists. You guys never, ever argue or converse in good faith. I’d say most people here have learned the same lesson, which is why most of your rambling contradictory horseshit gets tuned out.

            2. 1. We are nothing special in terms of government spending – in fact, in the middle or low end compared to some.

              Do you ever read the crap you write? The US government spends more money every year than any state in history. The US government borrows more than any state in history. The US government takes in more money every year, than any state in history.

              But yeah, totally just like everyone else.

    6. Why stop with purging? Round them up into camps With “Gay Wedding Cakes Macht Frei”
      over the gates.

  8. At least there is a strong neither contingent, but the general Democrat lean has fearful implications for the future – yay socialism.

    1. Meh. What I read from this is that the Democrats of rigid support while Republican incompetence is doing a good job of pushing their could-be supporters into the middle camp, something which mirrors the country at large.

      If the GOP can stop turning young people off with their SoCon antics and things go well the next time there’s a Republican President, I think you’ll see this cohort respond accordingly.

      1. How did Mitt Romney piss people off with his SoCon antics?

        If the litmus test is not to let a single moron into the R party as a candidate of any level of importance, you might as well declare failure now since no party of national significance has ever been able to approach this lofty standard.

        1. The Republican brand is irreparably broken to a large segment of people under 30.

          That’s the problem with brand-driven voting. The smallest speck contaminates the whole.

          1. The Republican brand is irreparably broken to a large segment of people under 30

            Agreed, and to a decent number of the over-30s. Problem being, the “turn into dipshit [progressives/libertarians/insert favored ideology] to counter the evil SoCons” strategy is not very effective, either and guarantees losing the biggest group of enthusiastic volunteers that the GOP has.

            Arguably, the past two Presidential nominees have tried running from the SoCons with very poor effects, and the party is doing very well in the midterms and at the state level. A change is needed, but I suspect it will have to co-opt rather than repel a substantial portion of the SoCons rather than run after the young voters unicorn.

  9. There’s not enough lipstick in the world to make this pig look pretty.

  10. It depends whether or not the Millennials’ Parents are rich.

    I have always viewed Libertarians to be the most Intellectual (and even smartest…at times) people. I’m not a Libertarian.

    So may i pose the following question:

    If the person is working for those three part-time, no-benefit, no-future, “you better kiss my butt or i’ll get another because you are dime-a-dozen” and is two weeks away from Homelessness, Why do any of you Libertarians believe that this individual world vote Republican?

    1. I mean besides the religious people and the stooges…that is.

    2. I think they do. In rural areas.

    3. Yeah, the Repubs aren’t doing a great job of selling themselves. It’s a good question.

      The only reason I can think of may be foreign policy – there may be some blue collar workers who prefer Repubs on dealing with the Middle East. But that may cross into your religious/stooge category.

      1. oh, also maybe some right to work people.

    4. Because their work ethic has taught them something about free lunches?

    5. One can be stuck in a shitty situation and still have the intellect to look at the bigger picture and consider the forces at work that collude to form his station in life.

      1. That’s what Libertarians say about unemployment:

        It’s best that someone that is laid off simply take a lower paying job then collect unemployment and try to find the same paying job in the LONG RUN.

        Yea, It’s great in the LONG RUN for employers that get to pay this GUY less. But in NO-WAY is it in the worker’s best interest.

        1. So you agree liberal policies have reduced people’s incentives to be productive.

          1. WTF, you can also bring back slavery and obtain productivity there as well.

            However, you’ll need to feed and house your slaves.

            Greedy Policies (i won’t call them liberal or conservative) of letting Creative-Destruction get to the point that labor is becoming more and more Obsolete in America is believe is the BIGGEST factor that reduces people’s incentive to be productive.

            I like the Libertarian idea of the CITIZENS’ WAGE.

            Supply Food/Rent/Healthcare/Education money to all. Your answer to this is that no one would work.

            People would work. I work with 100s of not 1000s of people that don’t really need to work.

            There’s a women here who’s 44 and owns so much rental property that she makes more in rental income than in Salaried Income. But, she likes to work and wants to do something meaningful.

            1. Must be routinely repeated, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

            2. So who pays for the “CITIZENS’ WAGE?”

              1. Let me start with This is a Libertarian Idea.

                The idea is you TAX everyone so that people get enough money to pay a minimum rent, eat, and obtain healthcare and/orcoverage.

                I was shocked to hear it myself.

                1. I don’t think that idea would fall under what most people here would consider libertarian.

                2. So you extort money through government coercion to pay for everyone else’s minimum standard of living? If I decide to work and not to mooch, why should I subsidise anyone else’s decision to do otheriwse?

                  Sounds like the furthest thing from Libertarian to me.

                  1. It’s not libertarian until poor children are crawling through the streets looking for rat meat.

                3. There is nothing about that idea that is remotely libertarian. It’s straight up nanny-state socialism.

                4. Alice, I think you are referring to the negative income tax or it’s variation, the minimum income wage. It certatinly could not be any worse than the currrent system. As for the job-problem, nothing will solve this until we stop collectively thinking that education=position=status. Our system rewards people with little to no skill in any art other than credentials. In my opinion this is the biggest obstacle facing our country. Talented people are effectively ruled by people with nice credentials…which is okay when they have some measure of virtue. Not okay when they are lacking.

            3. I work with 100s of not 1000s of people that don’t really need to work.

              I know people that work on behalf of 1000000s that don’t work. They don’t work because they don’t have too.

              The people you know who work continue to work despite their wealth because that is what people who like to work do. It’s not a coincidence that they become wealthy.

            4. If this were true, then why did communism fail?

              People like to work, even without incentives, suggest communism should work.

              Also, you can use an EITC to achieve the same basic effect but link it to work instead of receiving it as a gift for breathing.

    6. I know several people like that. They have had their part time hours drastically cut by Obamacare. Who do you think they are going to vote for in 2016?

      1. Hopefully there is a decent libertarian candidate. If not then D.

        1. Shreik wants the D.

          1. He’s certainly D curious.

      2. Who do you think they are going to vote for in 2016?

        Probably Hillary.

      3. In the past, a bad economy would lead to people voting the bums out and pro-growth policies.

        Instead, I think we have achieved the tipping point where voters flee to Mama State for safety.

        See Spain, where the young protest for jobs, but of course, they mean government jobs and socialism.

        Its really quite rational if you think things will not get better for you personally, and you don’t want to move where the jobs are.

      4. They certainly are not going to vote to end their insurance coverage….

    7. Lots of reasons:
      Maybe the douchebag boss is a Democrat?
      Maybe the kid knows he is an irresponsible fuckwit but why should the rest of the country suffer?
      Maybe this individual gets warboners when McCain is talking because he knows he’ll be 4F if the draft comes back?

    8. That person will not. But people actually earning minimum wage are not the majority of people, even of young people.

      That person is balanced out by the new hire at a Japanese transplant factory. Or the kid who has a construction job where they have to wait around for building inspectors, etc.

  11. While Democrats aren’t viewed favorably either, they are viewed as the better of two bad options

    Sad, but demonstrably true given the last 20 years.

    1. Are you reasonbly certain that you were not saying the same things in 1993?

  12. Meta question: I assume Reason-Rupe polling costs the Reason Foundation money. What is the theory underlying the conclusion that the expense is justified with respect to the goals of the Foundation?

    1. It’s possible they were given money that was restricted to this purpose…

    2. Meta Question – are you suggesting that they should only forward the propaganda which comes to their own “logical” conclusions?

      In other words, what are you saying? Or are you simply admitting that the Kochs are not getting their money’s worth when the stats don’t point their way?

  13. Gay marriage, environment – sure, okay, I get that.

    But education? The party of the NEA and AFT 20% highter than the party of charter schools?


    1. Or for that matter poverty.

  14. However, nearly twice as many trust Democrats (37%) as Republicans (21%) to promote job creation.

    Really! How has that been working out for them these last few years? Guess they don’t exactly live in the “reality based community.”

    In any event, the Millennial fixation around here is getting a little annoying. What makes them so damn special anyway? Shut up, get a fucking job, and move out and give your parents a break already.

    1. The only reason it has not worked out is because the demand for American’s doing certain jobs is GONE.

      This issue is not Democrat or Republican.
      I, personally, don’t like either.

      I vote Democrat because I want the safety nets not only for myself, but, especially, for the people that are not doing as well as me.

      1. The only reason it has not worked out is because the demand for American’s doing certain jobs is GONE.


        1. It’s true, Mike. Didn’t you hear that ATMs are spiking the unemployment levels?

      2. Those safety nets that you like? They are made of razor ribbon. You won’t see a dime of it.

        1. Yeah, that’s what they said 30 years ago….and now I’m about ready to collect (although will volunteer not to…yet).

          The Sky is not falling. They will collect. The “libertarians” of my youth told me the same BS – and it’s a total lie.

          A lot of people do buy it, though, so I suggest you keep repeating it if you don’t care about honestly.

      3. If you like those nets, but they aren’t for you, why don’t YOU fund them? Since you know that the need is there, why don’t you take responsibility for meeting those needs?

        Is it because you wouldn’t be able, on our own, to force others to do the same? That really is the point for you, isn’t it-to force others to shoulder the moral burden you say they have.

      4. Insourcing and bringing production back from China is a growing trend.

        Of course, if our government worked hard to reduce regulations and eliminated the corporate income tax, you could speed that up.

        Oh, and stop pushing kids to go to college – we will need skilled workers to run those plants.

      5. So you default that safety nets can ONLY be forged by using the Force of the state. Do you conceive of ANY way to provide a safety net that doesn’t use Force? Apparently not. And you also ignore the fact that once safety nets are combined with Force, mechanisms of self correction are gone. This is how the broadcast use of Force breaks through barriers and limiters and so become unchecked. This is how the Welfare/Warfare cycle begins. And once these safety nets are inexorably intertwined with the Public Treasury, the necessity of the Force Mavens to correct and control behavior increases, and we eventually have Brownshirts blowing off toddlers’ faces. You are blind to the evil that comes with trying to do Good with Force. That blindness itself is evil.

        By all means, have whatever belief you want as far as providing safety nets, I won’t stop you, even though there may be evidence of incipient rot from your voluntary behaviors. But I CAN’T abide the unleashing of Force by hiring agents to coerce others on top of it all. So your casual, blase voting for Dems to provide a safety net is probably the most corrosive value to have. It simply makes you feel good, on the cheap, without really having to much other than turn out at a gymnasium every four years, and unleash nearly unlimited Force in all directions, but your hands are “clean”.


        1. Wow…tahnks toolkien, that was a great lesson in non-sequiters if I ever read one. The idea of the Negative Income tax was proposed (or at endorsed at some point) by Milton Friedman and has at least some support by people holding mostly libertarian ideals. Alice I agree, that many of the jobs previously done by middle class americans are now performed overseas. This is creating wealth there at the expense of the middle class here. Eventually, enough wealth will be created there that the cost benefit will erode and we will need to start producing again…if we can remember. We are creating a society that values credentialism at the expence of people with any skill in any art.

  15. Millennials aren’t Team players. So there’s hope.

  16. Who in their right mind would trust the Republican party? The Republican party actively attacks its own members who adhere to the stated principles of the Republican party.

    1. The KKK
      The Anti-Gay
      The Anti-immigrant
      The “Job Creator”
      Religous people
      STooges that vote against their own interest

      1. You forgot Retards and the Deranged.

      2. STooges that vote against their own interest

        What? You mean people who don’t put themselves first? Non self-centered people? This is a negative to you? Or, is it just you using catch-phrases form other leftists?

        (I know-“why can’t it be both?”)

  17. Millennials are liberals. Who would have guessed?

  18. Can we all now agree that the subtitle to the Millenial polls “MIllenials: the Unclaimed Generation” is contradicted by the very poll data iself.

    The Democrats will predominate this voting block until they pass on.

    In fifty years perhaps there might be some recombination of non-Democrat voters that reaches majority status. But then again that could just as easliy be some red/green alliance.

    1. I would not go that far.

      I’m a BIG LIBERAL and I doubt I am voting for Hillary unless the republican has a fighting chance in NY STATE.

      1. While I do not doubt that this will be your vote, the vast majority of progressive voters will vote for whomever the Democratic nominee happens to be. Even for someone perceived as (relatively) conservative as Mrs Clinton. The 2000 election is too powerful in memory.

        You would also have to guess that the Clintons will have the Working Families and Independence party ballot lines sewed up by 2016.

        Would/Could the Clintons go for the Green Party of New York line as well?

      2. So you will vote for Hillary if you think your vote matters.

        You wouldn’t vote for her when you know your principled vote/abstention won’t affect anything.


  19. Time to move to New Hampshire. Or Mars.

    1. I have a cunning plan. The U.S. should, actually, mint a trillion dollar coin, then launch it by unmanned probe to Mars. It should be deposited in such a way as to require a manned expedition to retrieve it.

      I mean, why not? We’re blowing trillions right now just to buy votes for a political party.

      1. A monolithic ATM machine on Mars named Hal that only dispenses trillion dollar coins.

        1. That might be the best idea I’ve ever heard.

      2. I am 100% certain you thought of that cutesy idea yourself and revel in your cleverness. Now back to the real world…

  20. The one thing I notice as a 25 year old… how PAINFULLY uninformed on economics people in my generation are.

    I’ve gotten in to more than one conversation where I’ve had to explain, slowly and with easy words, why a 15 dollar minimum wage is a bad idea and hurts inexperienced workers. It wasn’t even with vociferous supporters… just people going, “So… you don’t support the 15 dollar minimum wage thing then?” They weren’t for it, they just hadn’t really thought about it either way and didn’t quite get opposition to it. I’ve also gotten A LOT of eyes glazing over when even trying to explain basic things like that.

    Oh, also, never tell these people that the natural minimum wage is zero. They link that to capitalism being mean (seriously).

    I also had a painful conversation where someone told me that McDonalds would only need to raise the price of all the Big Macs they sell 5 cents to pay a much better wage. Because the franchise model is not well understood (I am not great at explaining it either, as I need to do some more reading on how exactly it works, but basically as I understand the owners of those McDonalds are basically operating as small business-people. A few cents more would significantly affect their already thin profit margins).

    Lastly… no one seems to understand that revenue and profit are different. NO ONE.

    1. Now, I’m not saying that economic illiteracy is unique to millennials, because it’s not (try talking to… any hardcore union worker sometime) but I think it, combined with a lack of any real social conservatism (abortion is I think the only issue, really, and I don’t encounter it much in LA) and the whole race/gender/sexual orientation thing that colleges push, puts them in to the D camp.

      I do meet some libertarians, though. So far only guys, which… sad face (Happy face for you, jesse, although I haven’t met a gay or bi one yet). It is super refreshing when you meet people who, like me, hate the FUCK out of Obama.

      1. Maybe their eyes glaze over because you’re lecturing them on the truth of fringe economic bullshit serious economists don’t even pay attention to.

        Just become a liberal. Turn off whatever rightwing bullshit you get your news and information from and read regular old newspapers, listen to NPR, read good books by real scholars, et voila, pussy.

        1. So supply and demand is now fringe economic bullshit?

        2. No, their eyes glaze over becasue they have been indoctrinated into the capitalism=evil cult and they’re programmed to spew Michael Moorisms and krugmanisms in such situations. Other than the “just become liberal” part, I don’t disagree with second paragraph. Turn off, tune out….

      2. I think you’re onto something.

        It’s just anecdotal, but I frequently meet Californians who say in one single sentence:

        1. The democrats that run the state are absolutely insane, but…
        2. It’s not like I’m going to vote republican.

        I very much get the feeling that, no matter how crazy democrats are at running the state with their economic policy and regulations, they just can’t align themselves politically with a party associated with the wrong views on gay marriage, abortion, etc. If the choices are sound fiscal policy and being labeled a bigot, vs. crazy fiscal policy, they’ll take crazy fiscal policy.

        I mean, why not? It’s not like voting matters, anyway. Why go around voting republican and earning the cultural scorn of everyone around you, when it doesn’t effect the outcome?

    2. Perhaps you, as a 25 years old, are wrong? Did you ever give that a thought?

      As a 60+ year old who has worked since I was 15 years old….perhaps I could offer some insight?

      Here’s a tidbit. In 1971 I worked at a low wage unskilled job(s) and made $4 at one and $5 at another. This was in a low wage part of the south.

      $5 per hour in 1971 is equal to $25-29 per hour today – if you want to use a wide range of metrics, we could stretch that to $20-$30.

      Now, explain to me why paying someone 1/2 of what I made – in a labor job in a low wage state – is going to ruin our economy? This should be good….

      That’s laughable about the few more cents killing small business! I was in business myself for 35 years – all small businesses which I started and ran.

      Just think about it for a moment. You walk into Wal-Mart and the box of crackers you want to buy is $1.85

      Are you really going to tell us that if is was $1.88, you would scratch your head and think it was too much for you? That’s all it would take to provide vastly more wages and benefits to the workers there.

      At such a tender age you seem to have fell for the old saying:
      “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

      I’d have more respect for you if you just said “Hey, I’m all about ME and I want my money”.

      1. What other people earn, how much money they have, how many mansions and sports cars and Lear jets and railroads they own, is none of your fucking business.

        Other people are not your property. You leftoids are to economics what the socons are regarding sexuality. You argue from the same premises (you presume to have the right to own and control the lives of others) but squabble only over the superficial details of whatever subject you choose to project that premise into.

        I am all about ME–and the world would be a terrific place if everyone else was selfish as well.

        1. Well, I didn’t ask you. But it’s nice to know how selfish you are. Take the sociopath test…you’ll probably do well.

      2. Because your low wage unskilled job probably doesn’t exist any more and has been replaced by a machine. That is true of much of the low skill labor your senility thinks still exists. Yours is just another idiotic screed against ATM’s. Even Furman (you know, Barry’s Economic Guru) admits that Walmart has significantly improved the lot of the poor in this country.

        1. Not true one bit.

          One job was carrying 2×4’s on a site where houses were being framed. It’s still being done regularly…of course, now at wages much lower ($10-$12).

          Another was temp work. Even that paid $3.80 an hour – you know, manpower! I worked at warehouses and other places – which still exist. Stuff still needs stacked up and unboxed.

          $3.80 per hour is still $16 plus today.

          As to what walmart did for poor people, I think we need more of an overall effect, because LOTS of the people who work there are (or were) not poor. As has been clearly shown, working at Wal-Mart requires socialism – as WE (those who make $$) must make the up the difference with food stamps, medical care, etc. due to the low wages.

          But this isn’t about just Wal-Mart. It’s about the fallacy that the minimum wage is at a normal level. It’s not.

          Moreover, based on your own rants, higher wages will be a the best possible impetus for higher efficiencies (more robots, automation, etc.) in businesses.

          You should promote a higher wage for that reason alone – let alone the fact that folks who make better wages – spend more! Wow, that’s rocket science!

      3. Now, explain to me why paying someone 1/2 of what I made – in a labor job in a low wage state – is going to ruin our economy? This should be good….

        Buying everyone who wants one a free dildo with tax dollars wouldn’t ruin the economy, either. Is that awesome policy?

        1. You put your finger (or more accurately, skippy’s willy) in just the right place!

          Wal-Mart, the corporations, is getting many millions of free dildos at my expense because they pay so little that their employees qualify for lots of free stuff.

          Wally should pay them a bit more so I don’t have to fork over for their lifestyle choices (food, medicine, etc.)

          1. Yeah, because the taxes you pay to support them are all Wal-Mart’s fault.

            It’s funny how quickly charity turns around and becomes coercion, isn’t it?

            Step 1: We should take care of all poor people. Being poor shouldn’t mean having to do without. If I have to pay higher taxes, so be it!
            Step 2: Look at all these poor people I’m paying for! You know, if someone else would pay them more, I wouldn’t have to do this. Someone else should pay these poor people more money, so I don’t have to. How about we figure out a way to force Wal-Mart to pay these people more? I’m tired of being charitable.

            How generous of you.

            Of course, you could just skip step 1, but you’re too charitable for that. Instead, we’ll force Wal-Mart to pay people more money, so you can be charitable without having to actually be, you know, charitable.

    3. I blame Michael Moore and his stupid movie Capitalism. If you want to be entertained, ask anybody who is ranting about the evils of capitalism to define the term for you.

  21. But what do Millenials think of these poll results?


    *taps foot*

  22. I guess one last thing: I think as a libertarian, or even as a conservative, it is much safer to just keep your head down and bite your tongue, especially if you live in a city (which tend to be left).

    As a young person, it rarely benefits you to identify as a non-liberal and then deal with assholes who start making you answer for every single comment a politician has made or fight against the strawman “Ayn Rand PAULTARD!” shit. Would it be noble? Sure. Is it worth alienating people or losing friends/potential mates? Not at the moment.

    Look, if I’m trying to find a gal to marry, sure, I’ll give a shit. If I’m looking to get laid, however… I’ll just keep my feelings about Sandy Fluke to myself.

    1. Keep in mind that women can change when they get married and have kids. Suddenly economics means food for the children and sky high taxes are a real burden.

      This is why married people skew to the right. Unmarried moms of course have the same economic fears, but instead of worrying about taxes or their husband’s job safety, they vote for the Daddy State to get bigger.

      Also, there are tons of right/libertarian-leaning women. I’m guessing that some are hiding their true opinions, and maybe you’re also looking in the wrong places.

      1. “here are tons of right/libertarian-leaning women”

        Well, they certainly aren’t hanging here. Sure, Soccer Moms can lean right and be pro-war because they are made fearful by the media and culture.

        And they can’t help but be affected by their hubby’s screaming and cursing at the TV when Faux News is running 24/7 – or when he gets home from his commute listening to Rusbo….

        Notice Rushbo’s audience – this is online, but should still be relevant

        Look at Reasons:

        Sorry, MEN, but the women already know what you think of Fluke. You are fooling yourselves once again.

        1. While I like to argue politics like anyone else here, I think AuH20 seemed a little down on finding a woman who is sympatico politically. Don’t be discouraging him.

          The fact is that you may find that your wife is more conservative or more liberal or more libertarian or more apathetic than yourself.

          But in the end, its probably more important to pay attention to communication, and parenting style, or other issues.

          I have friends who are completely opposite politically, and we do fine. I was not so interested in polling my wife’s political beliefs, and it turns out she’s a bit more paleo-conservative than I’d prefer, but who cares – politics is actually a hobby most of the time.

          And this is why I’m saying don’t believe the hype that all women are lefties…its simply not true, but even if she was, I’d probably just deal with it like her other idiosyncratic female beliefs. The key is she’s a good mom and I love her.

      2. “This is why married people skew to the right”

        Let’s take a sample married woman with 3 children in the burbs.

        She is a stay at home mom but works a little part-time and the family income is 120K – not bad.

        She pays $4000 a year in property taxes.
        Her family pays $20,000 per year in Federal taxes

        2 of her children are in school, costing the taxpayers a total of $24,000 per year.

        Her cost to the system of health care (using per capital averages) is over $40,000 per year.

        Of course, she also gets police, snow plowing, the military, the CDC and vast amounts of other services – let’s cost those out at $12,000 a year for her family (a low figure).

        So, Marry Soccer pays in $24K per year to these main tax entities and gets back about 3X as much.

        To summarize, she votes selfishly – to make other people pay more of her bills…..just like many other people do.

        But watch Marry carefully. When the local town wants to increase taxes vastly – and says the “kids will suffer” if it’s not done, she will be the first to lead the charge and call all the other residents selfish if they don’t approve the massive increase (this happened here last month!)…..

        Economics for most people, unfortunately, means the exact same thing – how much can I get for HOW LITTLE?

        This is why I favor systems more like a VAT or other methods to skim off the needed tax money without all the political BS about exactly who pays what. The system as it is now encourages problems of me-me-me.

  23. Seems Republican Millenials don’t trust each other.

  24. If only there was a third option for people who don’t like the Democrats or Republicans.

    If only…

  25. We’re mostly just waiting for the FOX News set to stroke out and die so we can finally address the real problems of this planet.

    1. Apparently, the real problems of this planet are:

      (1) Not enough people asking permission.

      (2) Not enough people obeying orders.

      (3) Not enough adulation for Top Men.

      Did I miss anything, Tony?

  26. The time is now for a libertarian takeover the GOP.

  27. I’d imagine the future of US politics will look a lot like European politics look today. Politics seems to be on a perpetual drift to the left.

    1. THIS.

      And the fact is that communism took 70 years to die.

      So, you’ll have to have 140 years of Fabian Socialism discreetly adding layer after layer of glop until maybe people get fed up.

  28. In the early 2000’s, the GOP had a choice, given the future that was coming, to EMBRACE the libertarian elements within the party and start hammering on the insane economic/fiscal/monetary policies in place. Instead, they chose to kick the libertarians out, pass Medicare Part D in a failed attempt to lure the AARP crowd, embraced Big Government safety nets and simply tried to pry open the Public Treasury for more “conservative”/religious based non-profits to stick their snouts in, all the while maintaining a reasonably hard line socially conservative platform to please Stosh & Stella Supperclub crowd. Just stupid. And the end result was solidifying the millenials for the Dems. If the GOP could have been socially liberal and hammered fiscal conservatism, and its rotted structure, then things might be different today. But being socially conservative and fiscally liberal, pretty much the anti-libertarian approach, was doomed from the start. They pretty much took the wrong road into the future.

    1. Who were these giants in the GOP who were truly Libertarian? Please don’t tell me a certain weak Rep from TX – list out a bunch of really powerful anti-war libertarians who were kicked out.


    2. This is a problem all parties face. If the Libertarian party got big enough, there would be some wing that annoys people enough to cause others to wish to drop it.

      A good example for the Democrats would be the public sector employee unions. I’m pretty sure that many Democrats could do without them, but they are simply too important, and thus, they have to defend union idiocy all the time. They do a good job of hiding it and the media assistance is breathtaking, but I wonder if eventually that will run out.

    3. Let’s ignore principles and such for a moment. Was compassionate conservatism really a dumb idea, from a vote-getting standpoint?

      I’m not so sure.

      First we need to remove two exogenous factors: 9/11 and the financial crisis.

      9/11 leads to Iraq which was bad. Now, maybe Gore would not have done Iraq, but that’s really not obvious. His boss bombed it in 1998, after all.

      The financial crisis happened to break on Bush’s watch. I seriously doubt that was an actual causal event. See Barney Frank wanting to roll the dice while Bush wanted to reform Fannie/
      Freddie….but let’s be realistic, if the collapse happened 12 months later, then the LIV would be blaming Obama instead of Bush.

      So I am very skeptical that the voters would not actually buy compassionate conservatism in that case. I personally hate the idea, but I don’t see why it would not be popular – other dumb ideas are popular, too.

  29. No amount of Koch money is going to make that poll look good for the right.
    Wow, that’s a real trouncing!

    You guys and your corporate masters better come up with some additional propaganda or you are toast.

    But never fear. I have full confidence in your ability to delude. Why, as we speak, that great libertarian who owns Fox News is trying to buy Time Warner. Control the media – control the people.

    I am sure they will keep yapping about the “left wing media” even when they own all of it.

    1. Once they start sending checks to DC instead of cashing them, attitudes will change. Its always been thus.

      Another big game changer is when they start to open businesses or have to deal with government beyond the fun easy stuff. Uber is a great example of when people find the government taking away their nice things – suddenly full on lefties get second thoughts.

      Applying for financial aid is awesome. Applying for a building permit is not.

      1. I was in business for 40 years which required building permits. Sure, it sucked…..

        Which is why I protested… often not getting them!

        I knew we were sunk when an important judge came in the store and made a big purchase. First, he demanded that I not charge him sales tax (even though it was paying his salary). Then, he didn’t want a permit because the value of his house would go up….

        Suckers like me pay our taxes to support scum like him…..then again ,as the saying goes “a judge is a politician with connections”.

      2. “Once they start sending checks to DC instead of cashing them, attitudes will change. Its always been thus.”

        Hmm, I guess the fact that I’ve been sending checks to DC for 40+ years… relevant???

        I’ve sent many which could buy a car – in fact, many which could buy a Tesla!

        Do I like doing it? Well, actually, I neither like it nor dislike it. I’ve always cared more about what I get to keep – as opposed to what it takes to run a modern civil society. I’d rather make 300K and pay 40% in taxes than make 120K and pay only 20%.

        1. Wow, a whole Tesla. Isn’t that cute.

        2. Do I like doing it? Well, actually, I neither like it nor dislike it. I’ve always cared more about what I get to keep – as opposed to what it takes to run a modern civil society. I’d rather make 300K and pay 40% in taxes than make 120K and pay only 20%.

          You’re willingness to naively except the false choices of your masters is admirable. I’m sure your congressman approves.

    2. Tell me what else Soros said at breakfast today. And what was Hillary wearing?

      1. I wanted to talk to Hillary, but your face was planted firmly against her mid-section, so all I heard was panting.

        Maybe you can tell me what she whispered in your ear?

        Hillary? Ha Ha. You are bent. Do you really think I ever listened to her, read her book, or cared one iota about her? You are funny…….

        I don’t follow any partisans on either side. If I’m going to read something, it will be history – not BS.

        1. Do you hug your Krugman plushie tight when the winds howl, “Kooooch?”

  30. Why we need a rout of the old-school dead weight embedded in the Right.

    1. Get rid of the established GOP.
      Get rid of the Fundamentalists and the Christian Coalition.

      Now, carefully, tell me who is left?
      I’ll tell you.

      A couple angry old white dudes. Period. Well, some of them convince their wives…

  31. The millennials won’t have to worry about trust. They will be living under a totalitarian government which makes all of their decisions for them.

  32. The millennials (and everyone else) are going to get a big dose of economic reality when the dollar goes the way of the dodo. Leftoidism and collectivism have been made possible by the government’s ability to issue counterfeit money–and it’s only a matter of time before “reality bites”.

    1. Hmmm, I’ve been hearing about that dollar going the way of the dodo bird since the 1970’s.

      I guess ” a matter of time” is the key phrase in your screed. Sure, it will happen someday. The Sun will also burn out.

      But neither are relevant to a sane discussion. The net value of the USA – all savings, investment and property – makes our debt and deficit look very small.

      The big scare tactics say that – in a decade or two – our total debt will be ONE YEAR of production. Heck, I have to wonder….if a family making $100K per year forever had built up a total debt for everything (house, education, car, etc.) of 100K, would they be worried?

      I would not.

      1. In a decade or two?…..FDEGDQ188S

        I know math is hard for the Left. Counting gets so difficult after one, two, mine.

        1. Oh, I can count very well.
          Whether debt is 50%, 100% or 120% of GDP matters very little – use my example. If you make 100K a year and will make that for the foreseeable future – and have a mortgage for 120K, are you in bad shape?

          Domestic NET WORTH varies from about 500% to 700% of GDP.

          So, is the bank foolish for lending $100K to the family which has 600K in assets? Not IMHO. Also, not in the opinion of “the market” (bonds).

  33. Never trust government regardless of what party is in charge.

  34. The point is not whether climate change is true, but rather what we should do if it is. Arguing for or against the reality of the occurrence is truly pointless as Libertarians. We cannot and will not ever advocate government action to “correct” it.

    If it is happening, clean water and air will become a commodity that the market will govern. Environmental engineering will be leveraged when it becomes economically attractive.

    The best part is that this will all happen automatically at the individual level. People will take it upon themselves to grow that market from a few specialist nut-jobs up to a billion dollar industry, if need be.

    Think about it this way. If catastrophic climate change were happening, who would you trust to save you? The State?

  35. Foola.

    They’ll pay for this!


  36. Too bad that so many Millenials have not grasped that “liking” a party is irrelevant. The tools we use do not operate better if we “like” them…whatever that means.

    The progressive indoctrination that has passed for “education” in the USA for the past century has created an increasing population of people who do not understand the nature of action and consequences….they can’t tell a social club from a political party because they have no clue what a political party is for or how they can use them to their advantage. Every generation more folks on both the right and left are taught wrong stuff about the world they will inherit.

    Imagine if it worked the same way for other tools.
    “Yeah, I know the yard is an overgrown mass of weeds and grass but I don’t like the selection of lawn mowers so I had to let it grow without limit.”
    I know I should go look for a job but I don’t like the options for transportation so I have to stay home.

    I know I should clean up after myself but I don’t like the options for rags around here so filth it is.

    Refusing to do the necessary work because you don’t “like” the tools available to you is about the lamest excuse for self-marginalization and the glorification of political futility that I’ve heard lately.

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