Tonight on The Independents: Chris Christie's Traffic Problems, Rep. Jared Polis Talks Pot Legalization, Rep. Rush Holt Talks PATRIOT Act Repeal, John Stossel Talks Income Inequality…Plus Independents Ascend, and Biggio Gets Punked

Tonight's episode of The Independents, which airs on Fox Business Network live at 9 pm ET and then repeats again at midnight, starts with a discussion of, well, independents, or at least the people who describe themselves that way when Gallup asks them to identify their politics. Conservative Kayleigh McEnany and liberal Steve Leser will try to explain why the public ain't buying what the two major parties are selling, then they'll react to the latest revelations about what some are calling retributive lane-closing possibly engineered by members of New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie's political team.

Rep. Jared Polis (D-Colorado) will come on to talk about legal pot and what Congress should do to ease the drug war, and Rep. Rush Holt (D-New Jersey) will talk about his efforts to repeal the PATRIOT Act and protect whistleblowers like Edward Snowden. John Stossel will preview his Thursday night show on income inequality, Kmele Foster will survey #ThingsThatOffendLiberals, Kennedy will talk about (and maybe demonstrate?) drinking too much, and I have been given exactly 30 seconds to explain why we should care that some old sportswriter shouting at clouds helped prevent Craig Biggio from entering baseball's Hall of Fame because maybe some guy once said that he "felt" like Biggio maybe took steroids some time.

Heckle The Independents on Twitter at @IndependentsFBN!

Comments

[Count Negroni]

"Kennedy will talk about (and maybe demonstrate?) drinking too much"

Drinking with Kennedy, you say? Why yes, I will.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Drinking with Kennedy, you say? Why yes, I will.

Just stay away from the water and you should be fine.

These guys really should tie this show into a book deal.

[BigT]

Audience participation!!

[Derpetologist]

So here's that Chris Faraone guy squaring off with Breitbart.

[playa manhattan]

Wow, that takes me back. I had totally forgotten about the sexual assaults at Occupy Wall Street and the laughable "safety committee" that they formed to try and stop it.

Good times, man, good times!

[Irish]

Breitbart's best work was when he'd go to Occupy rallies and just walk around videotaping people.

There was one where a guy kept getting really close to Breitbart to the point where their faces were almost touching. Eventually Breitbart asked him what the hell he was doing and the guy smiled crazily and ran away.

He will forever be my idea of what an Occupier was. Him and the guy who was pissed that he couldn't get his teaching job back after he quit to pursue a degree in puppetry.

[playa manhattan]

Didn't they make that guy official? By that I mean didn't they have an official Occupy Wall Street puppeteer?

[Count Negroni]

They had a puppeteer's guild, in the Arts something-or-other. He had a couple of recruits.

[Sevo]

Yeah, the pay for the drum circle really wasn't gonna cover vacations.

[playa manhattan]

His whole life is a vacation.

[Count Negroni]

I really want a "where are they now?" on the puppeteer.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Think he hooked up with "Lotion Man" Danny Cline?

[Suthenboy]

"...he quit to pursue a degree in puppetry."

Are you sure that was real? Then and now I had a hard time believing he was not parodying occupiers. Thinking it was real makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time.

[Irish]

I think he was real. It was originally reported in the Nation and I don't think the Nation would publish a story that made a teacher and an occupier look bad unless they'd checked to make sure it was real.

[Suthenboy]

I know he was real, him and the booger eating moron who got 300k+ in debt getting a degree in some navel gazing bullshit and then complained that corporate America didn't appreciate his academic accomplishments.

Ok, I just remembered the up/down twinkles and I'm back to disbelief.

[Count Negroni]

up/down twinkles almost made me spit negroni on my computer.

[Irish]

Oh God. I didn't know what you were talking about so I googled it.

Up twinkles or simply twinkles are both hands raised with fingers pointing up and being wiggled. Twinkles indicates agreement with what is being said.

Flat hands means that you are not sure, not for, or not against. One may be asked to clarify one's position.

Down twinkles are arms raised but showing the back of both hands with fingers pointing down and wiggling. Down twinkles indicate disagreement with what is being said.

One will be asked by the facilitator to clarify one's objection. In Occupy Boston (possibly other sites), down twinkles go by the alternate name of "squid fingers".

Occupy Wall Street was run by 12 year olds, wasn't it?

[Irish]

Twinkles and down twinkles are referred to as a "temperature check". They indicate if a group is getting close to consensus. Twinkles are also known as "sparkle" or spirit fingers.

Goddammit.

[SweatingGin]

Realize your parents may not understand up twinkles when you have The (Obamacare) Talk with them. Don't let that ruffle your pajamas.

[Killaz]

A Douglas Adams parody of the human condition come to life.

[Derpetologist]

It is indeed very hard to parody the Occupiers.

Behold Transgender communist and rainbow sweater guy!

[Irish]

It is indeed very hard to parody the Occupiers.

That video is unbelievable.

[Count Negroni]

It was originally reported in the Nation and I don't think the Nation would publish a story that made a teacher and an occupier look bad unless they'd checked to make sure it was real.

One nit: I don't think the Nation thought it made the puppeteer or Occupy look bad.

[Count Negroni]

422 Comment thread!

Of course, it was in the depths of the Mary Wars.

[Episiarch]

It's so satisfying thinking about how much registration must have pained and frustrated her. I can only imagine (with delight, of course) the howls of fury and impotence that pealed through her wing of the psych ward as she got banned again and again.

[Count Negroni]

Sooner or later, every weekend!

I just... if I was doing a massive troll like that. And slipped up and pasted a link with my name in it. Just disappear, just walk away. Find a new place. Maybe do something without the internet.

But no, still the occasional visit.

[playa manhattan]

"Episipunk".

In case nobody has told you this recently, you should be proud of your work. I hope to get hate mail and stalkers one day. One day.

[Episiarch]

One would hope for a better class of stalker than Mary. She's the Carrot Top of stalkers.

[playa manhattan]

What ever happened to Groovus Maximus?

[Episiarch]

He moved to the Ukraine because, as a surgeon, he was extremely concerned at the direction health care is heading because of Obamacare. He didn't want to eventually effectively become a slave to the state. According to him this concern is extremely widely held among doctors.

[playa manhattan]

Is it so awesome that he can't drop in to tell us about it?

[SweatingGin]

IIRC, he went a-courting a Ukrainian nurse, and the last time he posted he was going to meet her parents...

Think someone said he emailed after that, though. Sloopy, maybe.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I think Sloop keeps touch.

[Redmanfms]

Is it so awesome that he can't drop in to tell us about it?

He was still posting for some time after moving to Ukraine. His last post here was in February or March of 2013, a few months after he started dating some Ukrainian doctor/nurse chick. It was after the unpleasantness started there last year, he mentioned the rioting a couple times and then he just stopped posting.

Probably has better things to worry about, I believe he was talking about marrying the Ukrainian broad.

[Sevo]

Ya know, sometimes I wonder of Sokal doesn't post here:

"?|11.3.11 @ 4:29PM|#
I'd think artistic puppeteering skills would translate directly from government-subsidized stage to fairground fried-butter-on-a-stick booth.

"The butter is the flattened-on-all-sides Foucauldian *regard* in which patriarchico-capitalism constrains the castrating threat of noncisgendered femality, and the oil is capitalism.
The stick is capitalism *as it understands itself*.
The $2.99 challenges capitalism's conception of the non-male body as a passive medium with no self-defining value or *qualia*, only an *exchange rate* determined minute by minute by the ever external-to and always objectifying gaze of the 'market.'

A masterpiece!

[playa manhattan]

I'm going to borrow from the other thread and cash in one of my 15 government approved drinks right now.

[Suthenboy]

I vaguely remember some guy who was briefly famous in the early 70s for his double talk. He would speak very rapidly something that sounded like it should be intelligible, but when he finished you had no clue what he had said.

Your quote there Sevo, is that him trying to make a come back?

[Sevo]

That was a commenter who used the "cent" symbol as a handle. I can remember clever posts from whoever it was, but that doesn't answer your question.

[Irish]

I refuse to watch that. Breitbart could be an arrogant prick, but I assume he kicked the hell out of this moron.

When you think 'YOU SHOULD STOP RAPING PEOPLE!' is a good attack on a political opponent, you should probably just admit you're an idiot and call it a day.

[Suthenboy]

So, does it make me a bad person if I smile at the thought of Crispy Creme shooting himself in the dick?

[playa manhattan]

Dammit. Now I want Krispy Kremes. The hot light turns on in 5 minutes...

[Calidissident]

Same thought here

[playa manhattan]

It's a dilemma. I ain't driving all the way to the 110 for donuts this time of evening.

[RannedPall]

Screw Krispy Kreme, go to Manchester and La Cienega and get Randy's, a hundred times better.

[Crusty Juggler]

Sign gotta say hot!

[Derpetologist]

Just scanned through the Tony derp. Great stuff.

I had an exchange with a prog that went something like this:

Me: If the minimum wage gets raised to $9/hr, what do you think with happen to all the $8/hr jobs?

Him: They'll become $9/hr jobs. It's pretty simple really.

Authoritarians believe the gubmint is a genie. I think it is more like that evil monkey's paw.

Bonus: Was reading about Velcro today and remembered all the times I was told by progs it and Teflon wouldn't exist if not for NASA.

[Sevo]

Not going to search it now, but PTFE came from an "Ooops" if I recall correctly.
But found something interesting recently: Dow developed Saran Wrap to water-proof stuff for the Normandy landings.

[Derpetologist]

And the Slinky was a failed spring for the Higgins landing craft.

[Derpetologist]

Correction- it was for stabilizing instruments on ships.

[Old Man With Candy]

You recall correctly. And some decades before NASA existed.

[GILMORE]

"survey #ThingsThatOffendLiberals"

I just did. The first 50% were all liberals being offended that anyone would suggest liberals get offended. So they post things that are the humour-equivalent of, "YEAHWELLFUCKYOU!!", or the intellectual equivalent of, "GOP-FACIST-RACIST-WARPARTY-RICHFUCKS"

Its... what you'd expect. "Twitter: Bringing you Condensed Stupid, 1,000,000 times a Day!"

Although this gets a DRINK for self-explanatory reasons =

ThingsThatOffendLiberals

Media that does not tow the Party line. pic.twitter.com/lqLaJgHEvk

[mr simple]

independents, or at least the people whodescribe themselves that waywhenGallup asks themto identify their politics.

The problem with this is I knew plenty of people who were done with their team right up until it came time to vote. After all, if they don't vote for their team, the other team might win! And a third party vote is just a wasted vote.

[Irish]

People who describe themselves as independent vote Republican quite a bit more than Democrat, at least in the last few elections. I think it's because tons of Republicans hate the party and call themselves 'independents' while always voting Republican anyway.

[playa manhattan]

You just described my parents.

[Calidissident]

Yeah, someone (I think it was Bo) mentioned earlier how they thought it was strange that more people consistently identify as Democrat than Republican, but more people consistently identify as conservative than liberal. I think this is due to this phenomena and an opposite one among Democrats. Many people identify as conservatives, but register and also identify as Independent, yet nonetheless pull the lever for the GOP almost every time, if not every time. At the same time, many Democrats identify as moderate, even if they're actually pretty liberal.

[Redmanfms]

My theory, with absolutely no support of course, is that conservatives generally have some principles but get suckered into voting for Republicans because the, "Ermagerd, the Dems are fucking socialists!!!" isn't just scare-mongering.

[Episiarch]

I would guarantee the reason for this is that TEAM BLUE has done a fantastic job of portraying TEAM RED as "uncool", and also if you are a TEAM RED person who admits that among a bunch of TEAM BLUE types, you are almost assuredly going to get a much more negative reaction than the opposite. So actual TEAM RED types who want to be social with TEAM BLUE types will often camouflage themselves as "Independents".

[Virginian]

At the same time, many Democrats identify as moderate, even if they're actually pretty liberal.

This. I've heard self described moderates call for the nationalization of every company with more then 500 employees.

Sorry, if you're an actual communist, then you're not a moderate in any reasonable sense of the word.

[RishJoMo]

lol, the only thing Chris Crhistie carea about is where the next platter of cheeseburgers is comiong from lol.

http://www.Planet-Anon.tk

[Francisco d Anconia]

INDEPENDENTS ASSEMBLE!

[SweatingGin]

Negroni: prepared.

[playa manhattan]

Welcome back

[Francisco d Anconia]

Where's Serious with teh music?

[CE]

You know who else stopped traffic?

[Episiarch]

Steve Winwood?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Dear Mr. Fantasy...

[Suthenboy]

Heh!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Lady Godiva?

[Bam!]

Fox News got an Amiga.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Nice tongue.

[SweatingGin]

Is Kennedy extra-bubbly tonight?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Let's see what that self identification translates to on Election Day.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm a Renault man.

[Episiarch]

You always struck me as a Volga guy.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, I used to be a ZiL man before they priced them out of my range.

[Killaz]

Mum drove a Renault back in the 80s. She had an everything French phase before she had the current Chinese one.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Brian Williams' NBC newscast tonight is really trying to hit all the talking points. Segue from global warming "weather isn't climate, unless it confirms the narrative" to LBJ "war on poverty" anniversary announcement to Gabby Giffords feelgood skydive feelgood piece to bemoaning virulently anti-gun "moderates" leaving Congress who might be replaced by *gasp* EXTREMIST TEATHUGLICANS.

I've gotten in a number of fruitless arguments with people about the supposed lack of bias in any particular direction on NBC and with Brian Williams in particular so whenever I happen to catch him on spewing shit it just really annoys me.

Of course I also have to note that over the years my accusations of bias in lamestream media organs have been greeted with much less denial and much more "buh-buh-but Fox News!!!"

[All-Seeing Monocle]

YOU'RE ON THE WRONG CHANNEL.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Don't I know it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

He was terrible during the sequester. All doom.

[Killaz]

Is it just me, or did the War on Poverty push seem a tad coordinated today?

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I didn't pay attention to news earlier in the day, but coordinated pushes directed on whatever Journolist 2.0 is calling itself seem more the rule than the exception nowadays.

[SweatingGin]

It is the 50th anniversary or something. So probably.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Democrats, however, have a ton of answers on how to kill jobs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AREN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH!

[Episiarch]

Did Kmele just destroy that guy? I was distracted and only half listening.

[SweatingGin]

I'm about 3 seconds from the mute button when they all get talking at once.

[Fist of Etiquette]

He can destroy anyone if Kennedy will ease the leash. The only chink in his armor is apparently Dennis Rodman.

[Almanian!]

You guys are missing the Big Story?: Insane Clown Posse suing the Injustice Dept for gang designation - says it "causes real harm"!

Fucking freedom of assembly, how does it work?

http://www.detroitnews.com/art.....dyssey=tab|

[SweatingGin]

Juggalos are the one spot where I might get a little sympathetic to fascism.

[Bam!]

If we've had 16 years of elected presidents who have basically destroyed the nation, what does that say about democracy?

[Francisco d Anconia]

As did the dems.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

So they'll go back to the OTHER bad solutions party. Because what else is there, throwing away your vote?

[Fist of Etiquette]

The "I don't know" kid was high and trying to hide it.

[Irish]

This debate can be summed up as follows:

Democrat: They're rejecting conservatism!

Republican: They're rejecting liberalism!

D: Nu uh!

R: Yeah hu!

[Episiarch]

Isn't that every multi-TEAM panel discussion on television, every time? It's not like these people's arguments change. At all. Ever.

[JW]

Episiarch, you ignorant slut.

[Episiarch]

Guilty as charged.

[JW]

Your non-denial-denial isn't fooling anyone.

[prolefeed]

Sometimes, when someone says they're a slut, it's easier to just take them at their word.

[Bam!]

Kennedy interviewing SpongeBob = Epic.

[Michael S. Langston]

BS: The deficit is getting less right now

[citation needed]

[Palin's Buttplug]

Not BS.. Deficit is down to $600ish billion from the $1.3 trillion Dubya left.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|1.8.14 @ 9:16PM|#
"Not BS.. Deficit is down to $600ish billion from the $1.3 trillion Dubya left."

Yeah, shitbag, Obo was reigned in a bit.
What's your point?

[Palin's Buttplug]

I don't hate you Sevo.

Your type inspires me instead.

[904cc]

Maybe someone could inspire you off a cliff.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|1.8.14 @ 9:25PM|#
"I don't hate you Sevo."
How...........
touching.

"Your type inspires me instead."
Yeah, when "type" means someone who can think, you should be inspired.
Go fuck your daddy.

[Michael S. Langston]

So it is - though are you saying the 1.3 trillion deficit monies spent in 2010 & 2011 are BOOOOSH's fault?

But yeah - I'll give it to Obama - he went from blowing 1.3 trillion more than we had to only blowing 680 billion more than we bring in.

It's not like the growing debt... 11.9 trillion when Bush left (way too high) - 16.7 trillion now is nothing to worry about too.

Or is the increase in debt under Obama not Obama's fault either?

How about this - is the fact the Obama - with a Dem congress & senate couldn't pass a budget in two full years of legislative work?

I know - BOOOOSH!

[Palin's Buttplug]

Lame.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Because you are ignorant I will explain.

Bush left a 1.3 trillion deficit. If the new president did NOTHING the deficit would remain just about the same for the next two years.

It is not the fault of the new president that he was asked to clean up such a mess.

Conversely Clinton left Bush a surplus which was promptly squandered on new social programs, two wars, the DHS/TSA, and tax cuts.

Bush destroyed the budget while Dickless Cheney told him "Deficits don't matter".

[904cc]

THAT is what ten minutes of furious googling got you?

See, that's why you're such a garbage poster and the butt of jokes. Because on top of insisting a guy who wasn't in charge is somehow responsible (they do teach you that 2009 is after 2008 in whatever shitty school you went to right?) you get ten free minutes to come up with the best line of agitprop you can, and THAT steaming pile is what you fire off.

No one takes you seriously. You have the analytical skills of a Conch shell marinated in cheap beer, and you're inocoherent half the time.

If you shot yourself in the head, the only reason you'd be missed is because of your use as a punching bag.

And your financial analysis... oh my god you're so obviously fucking broke that nothing you say could ever convince anyone with one shred of understanding of the markets that you're anything but the victim of a head injury.

But still you insist on coming here every fucking day, and saying impossibly stupid shit like blaming something on the guy who wasn't in charge.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Who the fuck are you? 10CC's half-wit floor jism?

I have linked a hundred times for the Peanut brothers the deficit explosion to $1.3 T under the Bushpigs.

Reason.com puts up the fucking CHARTS to show spending has flat-lined with Obama.

Now fuck off or accumulate some cred before you fuck with me.

[904cc]

The "you're broke" shit obviously got to you.

[Francisco d Anconia]

accumulate some cred before you fuck with me.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Priceless.

[Monkey's Uncle]

"you're so cool Shrikester, I can't stand it!"

/Evil Ed

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I have linked a hundred times for the Peanut brothers the deficit explosion to $1.3 T under the Bushpigs

Yeah, and I've fucked you in the earhole with the government's own statistics so many times, whatever's left of your brains exited a long time ago.

That $680 billion deficit from last year? Sure, only if you don't count the $328 billion that Lew shell-gamed to keep from going over the debt ceiling through the end of the fiscal year.

Thanks to that little trick, the deficit for FY14 is already over $600 billion. And we're just 3 months into the fiscal year.

Mark this down--you'll be completely ignoring the MASSIVE increase in the deficit this year.

Now put out your foot, Toby.

[Derpetologist]

If Obama did not want to clean up a mess, why did he run? Didn't promise hope and change and transformation and ponies?

Obama racked up more debt in his first term than Bush did in both his terms.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Bush was left a surplus, idiot.

[Derpetologist]

There was a deficit for every year of Clinton's presidency. The Clinton surplus is a myth.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc.....n-surplus/

[Palin's Buttplug]

Wrong. (with chart)

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/.....r-clinton/

Rockwell is not credible.

[904cc]

"Rockwell is not credible."

When you resort to arguing sources you've lost.

[Derpetologist]

No:

"What Factcheck does not mention, however, is that while Social Security is the only off-budget trust fund, it's not the only trust fund. Just as surpluses caused by Social Security should not be considered a real surplus caused by a president's budget, nor should surpluses caused by other trust funds be considered."

The deficit went down because intragovernmental debt went up. There was no Clinton surplus.

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/30

[Francisco d Anconia]

Bush was left a surplus, idiot.

Hmmmm.

Bush enters office. Debt $5T+
Bush leaves office. Debt $10T

Added debt. Less than $5T

Obama enters office. Debt $10T
Now (after ONLY 5 years). Debt $17T

Added debt. Over $7T with 3 years to go.

Fuck.

Your.

Daddy.

Shitstopper.

[Derpetologist]

The national debt has been going up nonstop for over 30 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....tion-g.jpg

[Palin's Buttplug]

Sure the debt goes up.

The Clinton surplus of 199-2000 increased the debt.

Why?

SS surplus bought Treasuries (debt) by law.

[Derpetologist]

Please go to a mirror and watch yourself say "the surplus increased the debt."

Did you get a strange feeling?

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|1.8.14 @ 10:44PM|#
"Sure the debt goes up.
The Clinton surplus of 199-2000 increased the debt.
Why?
SS surplus bought Treasuries (debt) by law."

And STUFF and therefore Obo is WONDERFUL!
Go fuck your daddy, shit pile.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Too bad Obama could not repeal the Iraq War, NCLB, TARP, Medicare Part D Welfare, the Bush stimulus ($300 check for all you niggas), etc.

THAT THE DEBT, BITCH!

[Irish]

Bush left a 1.3 trillion deficit. If the new president did NOTHING the deficit would remain just about the same for the next two years.

Seriously? So the hundreds of billions of dollars in additional spending that Obama passed as part of the stimulus bill...what happened to that? Did it not get spent after all?

[Palin's Buttplug]

So the hundreds of billions of dollars in additional spending that Obama passed as part of the stimulus bill...what happened to that? Did it not get spent after all?

Of course it did - as a supplemental (one time) expenditure not on budget.

The same procedural move the Bushpigs used to keep their two wars off budget.

Now they all add to the DEBT - of course.

But not to the DEFICIT (caps for half-jack .0904CC)

[904cc]

"But not to the DEFICIT (caps for half-jack .0904CC)"

Damn, you mad that I pointed out you're a broke joke.

[Sevo]

"But not to the DEFICIT"

How.............
sophomoric of you, shitpile.
Go fuck your daddy.

[904cc]

"But not to the DEFICIT (caps for half-jack .0904CC)"

This is so awesome, because it so clearly illustrates my point about you again.

I never mentioned DEFICIT dumbfuck, but you're so butthurt about being laughed at by people who know more than you, that you can't be bothered to see that.

And then, when you attempt to slime me, your numbers are off by a factor of 10000, which is just about standard for you as far as accuracy I suspect.

You're so gad damned stupid you can't even transcribe a number without making a fool of yourself.

[Irish]

So your argument is that that just doesn't count as spending so the real debt added was actually much higher than the reported deficit?

And you're using this in defense as Obama instead of a criticism of him?

[Palin's Buttplug]

It counts. Obama passed an $800 billion one-time stimulus of which $300 billion were tax cuts.

So of our grand total $17 trillion of DEBT $800 billion can be blamed on Obama.

About 1/20th.

Bush, otoh, can be blamed for a all the cumulative deficits since 2000 when he took a surplus - about $8 trillion.

Bush = 10x worse (so far - Obama could make it worse/better later).

FACTS!

Now school is over, bitches!

[Derpetologist]

It's been a while since I took civics, but doesn't every penny of federal spending get approved by the President?

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-th.....nding-bill

[BigT]

Bush averaged ~$450bn deficit until 2008, when the TARP $780bn raised it to $1,300bn. Obama has maintained the 2008 insanity.

Dumb and dumber.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Of course the Bushpigs averaged down with the Clinton surplus jading their figures.

[Francisco d Anconia]

FUCK YOU YOU DISGUSTING WEASEL!

$5T vs $7T

[Derpetologist]

The most generous measure gives Bush an 8$87 billion surplus. That averages to about $9 billion/yr.

Given average deficits in the range of $400 billion for most of Bush's term, the supposed surplus is barely a rounding error.

[Michael S. Langston]

Every penny in deficit spending under Obama is Obama's fault.

Only 800 billion - you really are a joke.

I was tempted to agree slightly with you about Clinton's economy, though not his fault I'll note it imploded shortly after he left, but either way...

The point is - I give you too much credit. It's all about team with you - thank you for reminding me.

[Michael S. Langston]

lol - the surplus - the magical numbers which never materialized...

End point - it's BOOOOSH!

[BigT]

Sequester!!! (Mini) Success!!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

74.8%. Ouch. Biggio will get in. Bobby Ryan and Martin St. Louis - now they were jobbed!

One guy who belongs in the Hall is Tim Raines.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Raines would be in if he had been a Yankee/Dodger/Soxer.

[BigT]

Pete Rose. Fuck the HOF without him.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Amen.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A fridge not far enough.

[SweatingGin]

Christie to Aid: under the bus you go!

[JW]

Who could have seen that coming? WHO? I ask you.

[Bam!]

Mighty nice bridge you got there, hate to see anything happen to it.

[Francisco d Anconia]

And he's fat.

[Bam!]

Don't fat shame him.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Rob Ford proved fat can be cool.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Weight wasn't even on the radar of what people found cool about him.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I'd vote for him based on what I know.

Cut spending and legalize drugs - both self serving and worthy goals.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm with Leser here. (Enjoy it, Dem. Only time it will happen.)

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Bridghazi, winna

[Fist of Etiquette]

LET KMELE NAIL THE GUY ON THE IRS BULLYING!

[Episiarch]

I love when political hacks complain about political hacks on the other TEAM doing the exact same shit political hacks on their TEAM do.

[SweatingGin]

Wow, Republican chick just dropped Christie like a bad habit. Holy crap. Photoshop him out of the convention pictures, he's done.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

That's gonna take a big brush.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I'll be sad to see his fat ass getting hit by the door on the way out.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yes. Boom. IRS.

[JW]

The blond chick is intriguing me with her throwing other stupid partiers under the bus.

[Episiarch]

It's an interesting position to take. People's contention that Christie is going to be the candidate might want to check their premises.

[JW]

He has a shot, but the GOP Star Chamber has already chosen who it's going to be.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Up Next: Snowden - Kill/Fuck/Marry?

[All-Seeing Monocle]

The next 5 second segment.

I have to up my ADD to keep up.

[JW]

Wait, those are my only choices?

[Fist of Etiquette]

And all three involve use of a drone.

[Episiarch]

PUNS ARE EVIL KENNEDY TURN YOUR DEVIL GAZE AWAY

[Fist of Etiquette]

GET OFF THE STAGE YOU'RE NOT FUNNY.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

TAKE IT OFF!

[JW]

Only won Jeopardy five times? Mental pussy.

[Francisco d Anconia]

A democrat in favor of civil liberties? Wow, he's old fashioned.

[Episiarch]

It's disturbing to me that three of us in a row felt the need to use all caps. I need a shower now. In blood.

[JW]

TALKING POINTS EXECUTED.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Get a load of Congressman Traitor here.

[Episiarch]

He reminds me of Martin Landau in Space: 1999. Make of that what you will.

[JW]

Needs moar Barbara Bain.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

That is indisputable.

[Fist of Etiquette]

You know, he was also in the X-Files movie. Don't pigeonhole him.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

I don't understand, how is this going to fix income inequality?

[SweatingGin]

Really liked Welch nailing him with a tough question.

[JW]

Pledge? The maid companies are NSA? I KNEW IT.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah, let's trust the judicial process where the prosecution has unlimited resources and the White House arrayed against Snowden.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Have I mentioned I like Stossel?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Why don't you marry him.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Cuz his mustache is yucky.

[SweatingGin]

If she says "womb broom", take a drink.

[SweatingGin]

Who wants a mustache ride?

Do you want the mustache on, or off?

[Episiarch]

Decent?!? No one who has gone one Jeopardy! and been in Alex Trebek's presence can be described as "decent". And doubly so if they were on with Art Fleming.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Apparently the pirate internet feed I'm watching this on is a Florida station, so I get nothing but hilarious old-people-product commercials during the breaks.

[Fist of Etiquette]

What do you think Fox Biz's target audience is?

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Sexy, radical political independents.

[SweatingGin]

Much as it pains me to say it, Shriek is entirely correct about FBN's audience being the old and decrepit. Diabeetus and reverse mortgages and locate your business in New York.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Don't forget Super Prostrate pills to keep you from pissing all night long.

[SweatingGin]

class action suits.

[Irish]

Isn't this true of all business channels? It's true of CNBC as well.

[Palin's Buttplug]

No. I keep a TV tuned to CNBC all day even if I am not watching.

[SweatingGin]

That explains a lot.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Fox News demographic of 65-90.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Stossel props! Why won't The Independents pull out props?

[Suthenboy]

I don't get to watch. Wife has Big Bang or castle or something on.
I watched 5 mins of Big Bang. Holy shit that is fucking awful. That is what passes for a popular show these days?
I weep for the American people.

I would rather watch Kennedy read the instructional manual for assembling furniture. Actually, if she did it nude there isn't anything else that could draw me away.

[JW]

Stream it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

BAN IT.

[JW]

BONE IT

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Stop whining and watch the ultra-low-quality streaming site.

http://aajnetworks.com/v2/fox-business/

[Episiarch]

Any network sitcom will be insipid beyond belief.

Anyone who calls Community a sitcom is a communist.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Streets behind.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Kennedy could pull this off:

http://carstuckgirls.com/

[JW]

I would rather watch Kennedy read the instructional manual for assembling furniture. Actually, if she did it nude there isn't anything else that could draw me away.

This is what they need to make the $1,000 gift level benny during the webbegathon.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I've never watched it for more than a few minutes but everyone I've met who is a Big Bang Theory fan has been a huge grievancemonger constantly complaining about just how offended they are by everything.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ugh. Stossel is terrible at devil's advocate.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Yeah, that didn't work. I couldn't track.

[Fist of Etiquette]

He isn't any better when he does it on his show.

[Some call me Tim?]

I really hate pundits who can't give you the well-articulated opposing argument.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The thing is, he apparently used to hold those opposing views. I think he just sucks at play acting.

[JW]

We can see who wears the pants on this show.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Married to France? I guess you save money on lady razors.

[SweatingGin]

Kmele schools everyone with the wealth vs. income.

[Pompey]

+1

[Fist of Etiquette]

Obama can't wipe out Bush poverty in just one pivot.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Kennedy is pro-Nazi?

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Nah, that's just a sassy outfit.

[JW]

They were very snappy dressers.

[Bam!]

Hitler was a failed artist. Explains a lot.

[JW]

No, no, no, NO! I want BIG lapels! BIGGER!

[Episiarch]

No, pro-triumvirate. The question is, first or second?

[playa manhattan]

Chewbacca is upsetting her Hawaiian neigbors.

[Episiarch]

The neighbors were told to let the Wookie win.

[Calidissident]

Repost from PM links (posted it kinda late)

Some more Reddit insanity for you all. In this edition, people support the idea of giving the government the power to control who can and can't have children. For the children, of course.

"This presupposes a few things, that are all wrong in my opinion. Firstly it presupposes that this sort of requirement would be intended to control birthrates in some form, when that isn't the idea. The idea at play is helping children have the best possible lives.

Sure there's a chance this could happen, but the same goes for jails. Innocent people get put in prison on a regular basis, is that reasoning to not have a prison system at all?"

"What if that child is almost 100% likely to be born into a life of poverty and abuse?

to be clear, I don't think this will ever happen, but I would support very minor limitations on the right to bear children. It seems like common sense. 90%+ of people wouldn't even have any concern that they wouldn't be allowed, and 90%+ of the remaining 10% would still be allowed.

That's just how I see it."

"Yes but eugentics is a position on GENETIC human improvement.

What this sort of idea is has nothing to do with genetics whatsoever, and everything to do with economics.

It only even begins represents Eugenics at all if you argue that genetics are a determining factor in a person's economic capability, and I don't believe that argument holds any water."

[Calidissident]

"You're missing the point.

This isn't, at all about creating "better people". Its simply about not having children born into lives of poverty. This isn't a position stemming from Eugenics, at all, and genetics need not play a roll. Its an economic position."

To be fair, there are more comments against than for it (and the meme posted was an Unpopular Opinion Puffin), but there are still a frightening number of comments like these. I found all these in the first 50 or so, and none of them were downvoted.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Advice.....l_believe/

[SweatingGin]

Outside of /r/anarcho_capitalism and a few other places, it's no trouble finding redditors for eugenics/whatever statist thing you want to throw out there.

[Irish]

Yes but eugentics is a position on GENETIC human improvement.

What this sort of idea is has nothing to do with genetics whatsoever, and everything to do with economics.

It only even begins represents Eugenics at all if you argue that genetics are a determining factor in a person's economic capability, and I don't believe that argument holds any water

We're not stopping them from legally being allowed to have kids because they're genetically inferior, we're just doing it because they're poor!

[Calidissident]

Also, how the fuck would you enforce this? Forced abortion? Kidnapping children at birth? Policing hospitals, demanding valid authorization to have kids when a cop sees a "suspicious" individual with a child in public? According to some people there, this is no different than having standard for who can adopt kids.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Meanwhile, in other corners of the Internet, I hear nonstop bitching and moaning that Reddit is some sort of unassailable stronghold for libertarians and "MRAs".

I hate Reddit's layout but the last time I glanced at r/libertarianism it was jam-packed with "you guys are just big meanies who are only interested in saying bad stuff about Obama" concern trolling horseshit. And that was when he was lying with every word about hideously blatant NSA Constitutional violations.

[Irish]

Reddit has no reasonable political outlook. It consists almost entirely of college sophomores saying stupid shit they heard in class that day.

[SweatingGin]

Outside of a few tiny chunks, I wouldn't call much at all of reddit libertarian.

There's anti-libertarian subreddits that target people.

Of course, really, the best is /r/anarchism, and it's byzantine censorship rules 🙂

[A wild THANE appeared!]

Reddit is a very large community (or alternately, set of communities). It may have some particularly prominent / commonly derided aspects, but it's too large to generalize. See SRS, for instance (trigger warning: batshit insane). Or DoubleX (same trigger warning applies).

The contrast those with TumblrInAction. Or, on the more random side, androidcirclejerk.

It's somewhat like Tumblr in that respect.

[Calidissident]

There are a lot of batshit crazy subreddits, like TheRedPill, WhiteRights, r/feminism, r/worldnews, and r/politics (which is just a left-wing circle-jerk)

Another idiotic meme I saw was one that basically said anyone who opposes NSA surveillance and data-gathering is a hypocrite if they also use Facebook.

[SweatingGin]

/r/anarchism ! and /r/metanarchism to see who they banned! Because private ownership of toothbrushes is OPPRESSION!

/r/anarcho_capitalism is actually good. /r/guns and /r/ccw, too.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I think I already know the answer to this question, but was r/politics always a left-wing circlejerk or was it at some point seized by the revolutionary vanguard of the proletariat?

[Calidissident]

I only recently started reading Reddit, so i don't know

[A wild THANE appeared!]

was r/politics always a left-wing circlejerk

Yes. I used Reddit for a while when people were abandoning Digg; it was terrible then, too.

In fact, I kept away from Reddit for several years because whenever I went there I wouldn't be able to resist looking at the retardation in the politics sub.

I started visiting there again because of androidcirclejerk. I went to TiA for a while but got sick of it. Nowadays I mostly go to the 4chan sub (4chan proper has too low an SNR).

[SweatingGin]

ya'know what is good about real 4chan? As terrible as it is? They're all trolls, and they know it. And they're okay with it. No faking, just trolls trolling trolls.

I fear for the internet if /b/ ever shuts down.

[A wild THANE appeared!]

whatever faggot

inb4 don't say faggot

[SweatingGin]

pools closed.

[SweatingGin]

If it was seized by the vanguard of the proletariat, it was before time immemorial (at least before 2011 or so.)

[A wild THANE appeared!]

If it was seized by the vanguard of the proletariat, it was before time immemorial (at least before 2011 or so.)

WHAT A N00B!

I started visiting Reddit in 2006 or so. I don't remember when I stopped; I think it was '08 or '09.

[SweatingGin]

I can't recall when I started visiting there. I know that it was a long time before I found worthwhile places, and I deleted my account not that long ago. I lurk a couple of the worthwhile places:

/r/anarcho_capitalism
/r/bitcoin
/r/crippling_alcoholism

[A wild THANE appeared!]

Wanna read something retarded? (with retardation from most parties involved, mind you)

Even North Korea has a mixed market economy.

The idea of a pure free market is insane, the idea of a wholly planned market is insane. Even North Koreans know that.

Yep, our first flirtations with a free market system created two very inhumane systems.

Indentured Servitude. Mostly in the Americas.

Debt Slavery. Which took hold in India as generational debt slavery and took until 1976 to even have a law passed against it. In some cases 5+ generations of people had been held in slavery for the original debt.

Well they like the Marxists, Libertarians etc, also have the problem that they don't believe in political pluralism i.e. a democracy of ideas and an open society in which to implement them.

In an ancap society anything that is not ancap can and will be met with "legitimate force". You want to collect taxes to start construction on something that takes nearly a 100 years to finish like the NY aqueduct? The ancaps would consider those taxes an initiation of force and kill you.

[SweatingGin]

ahh, FFS.

SubredditDrama was one of my haunts, haven't stopped in for a while.

AnCap gets stupid with the constant "BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS?!?!"

[Irish]

Red Pill is hilarious. You guys have really opened my eyes to some crazy things I never knew existed.

That is unless you date poor girls. Poor girls are just as hot as rich girls, only their standards aren't as high. Maybe she is a well mannered girl but her father had a blue collar job of some sort like massage therapist or plumber. Well now that 2005 Camry with leather interior is starting to look impressive. The meals you have with her are probably light years ahead of the canned beans and tuna shes used to. Oh and the fact that your in graduate school, that's realy impressive to a poor girl. Everyone in rich girl's family went to graduate school so she doesn't realy care.

^^^ This is crazy shit right here.

[Irish]

In conclusion, find a poor youngish (19-21) girl preferably Hispanic, because they have nice hair, big butts and don't realy know about feminism. Go 1-2 dates, then invite her over to your house for an impressive meal, then do her in the butt. On your business school application write about how you care about poor people with a chauvinistic smirk on your face.

I am laughing so hard right now.

[A wild THANE appeared!]

Yes. RedPill is a good reminder that for every insane feminist, there is at least one person who is insane in the opposite way.

[paranoid android]

Maybe they'll get together and have vicious, nasty, hate-filled children someday.

[Calidissident]

Any other subreddit, and I would think that's trolling. I'm 99% sure that guy is serious.

[Irish]

How can one be alpha if one is concentration camp scrawny?

Because of this I'm unable to shake my beta status since my physical form is a far cry from standard masculinity. Putting on weight is practically impossible and my gains are neligible. I lifted the entire summer and most of my progress was gone after a month during my exam session - this frustrates me.

I'm also introverted, so I meet very few women in the first place. This has caused me to become resentful, rude and paranoid. I was full beta during my highschool days and during that time women saw me as a joke and basically I was never taken seriously. Not by women and I wasn't even given elementary respect by other males in my class. As such I find it highly satisfying to turn down girls who I'm not attracted to (in university). I also find it highly satisfying to belittle the males who fallen behind Take it as some kind of gender revenge (which is inherently un-alpha like). Consequently I have no luck with girls I actually like despite emulating confidence being red-pill like. I don't have social anxiety so that can't be it. It has to be my physical form, which is skeletal.

"Hello, I am a sociopath. How can I make women love me despite my overwhelming paranoia and unwillingness to behave like a reasonable human being?"

[Calidissident]

Anyone who uses the term "alpha" or "beta" in seriousness is a total douchebag. I guarantee it.

[Irish]

I am so pissed at you for telling me about SRS and Double X. I'm gazing into the abyss right now.

This is the most narcissistic thing I've ever seen.

So I am 25 and a college student. This past semester there was a guy in my class that I had a crush on. We talked occasionally about tv shows and movies and our material for our literature class. I dye my hair colors and he always complemented me on how great my hair looked. I wanted to ask him out the last class came and went and I chickened out.
Fast forward a couple of weeks and I got this crazy idea in my head that I would email him and ask him out. I knew nothing about if he was single or not so tried to find a facebook or some other social network profile but there was none to be found. I backed off the idea for a little bit until one night I had a couple of glasses of wine and got the courage and did it. Sent him an email to his school address about how I was interested but didn't work of the nerve to ask him out and wasn't sure if he was single but if he was interested maybe we could get together sometime.

There's several more paragraphs. This woman is emotionally 13.

[SweatingGin]

My thought: I wouldn't hold it against her. Yes, she's emotionally immature. But hey, she's just looking for help in a community (on the internet). Nothing terrible there. I dived into 2x a couple of times for the show, retreated, didn't need to go back.

That said: SRS: that's where the shit is. They've got a whole section (they call it the Fempire). They invade other places. It's insane. Scary. The hivemind. Don't look too far into it (it will look back).

/r/TumblrInAction is fun, if you want to see the sideshow without being so close that you catch the herp.

[A wild THANE appeared!]

Yes. When you hear about feminists doxxing people, it is often SRS. They also make a hobby of picking out specific users and downvoting all of their posts. It's very mature.

Encyclopaedia Dramatica (NSFW!) has a lot about their antics, IIRC. Not that ED isn't retarded too.

[hotsy totsy]

She needs a bit of a reality check. If the guy likes you, he'll ask you out. Dyeing your hair "colors" (like purple, scarlet, green) is not a turn on for the great majority of guys.
Most guys, even the artsy ones, like the girls in Victoria Secret catalogs, so take your cue from them. Do you see short punky hair? Do you see shaved heads or mohawks or green and purple stripes? No?
That's because guys are not attracted to that. It looks neurotic.

And do not ask him out.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The war is a failure? Get a load of Lady Cronkite over here.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

L O fucking L

[SweatingGin]

WTF? Democrat for federalism!?!?

Up is down, black is white! Are you serious?!?

[JW]

She's been knighted?

[Francisco d Anconia]

When it supports his agenda.

Ask him about healthcare.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Let people determine for themselves what their next door neighbors are allowed to do.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's interesting the two Dem congressman on the show tonight felt comfortable sort of dissing Obama.

[JW]

He's already been marked for death by the WH. He's a rogue agent now, with nothing to lose!

[Episiarch]

That's pretty lukewarm dissing. Still, what are you going to do, try and defend it? Even the media didn't try, they just ignored Obama mocking supporters about weed.

Also, the bumper is Ziggy Stardust? What are they trying to tell us? That Welch is a spider from Mars?

[All-Seeing Monocle]

How could a show on a Fox network have two D congress critters in one night, neither of whom were there to be ridiculed? It's unpossible.

[Palin's Buttplug]

They hired Kucinich to ridicule.

[montana mike]

True there, Kuchinch is a no brainer as a punching bag,he is the epitome of stupid and has been for decades,that fox has him on the payroll is curious.

[Calidissident]

Pew Research on preferred style of dress for females in various Muslim countries (Egypt, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Lebanon, Tunisia). Lebanon appears to be the sanest (perhaps a surprise that it beat out Turkey, and by a substantial margin, although 27% of the sample was Christian, while there aren't very many Turkish Christians, so that may be responsible for the difference). Saudi Arabia is (predictably) the most batshit crazy, with Pakistan coming in second.

[Calidissident]

My bad, I forgot to post the link

http://www.pewresearch.org/fac.....countries/

[JeremyR]

There were Christians in Turkey Back when it was Byzantine.

Okay, the Turks kept a lot as slaves.

[Monkey's Uncle]

Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks.

[JW]

Bed, Bath and Beyond is up today!

[Fist of Etiquette]

People are still interested in Honey Boo Boo?

[Episiarch]

Kmele is up on Honey Boo Boo and Michelle Rodriguez? Why is he not already hired as reason entertainment reporter?

[All-Seeing Monocle]

You got something against Loder?

[Fist of Etiquette]

NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

[Episiarch]

Kennedy might just be a bit insane.

[SweatingGin]

Good insane, though. Like, if you were dating her, it's a very small chance you'd wake up stabbed to a bed. Like 7% or 8%.

[Episiarch]

Definitely not "stabbing insane", which is a good thing.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

And none of them are below 5% really.

[JW]

I was about to say, that's a crazy that would a nice change.

[Fist of Etiquette]

But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for.

[Episiarch]

You may be right.

[Tejicano]

Zod Damn it! You just found something even more inane to drown out the "Thomas Tank Engine" theme which has been buzzing in my mind since my 3 year old put it on at breakfast.

[Episiarch]

I may be crazy...

[SweatingGin]

30 seconds of Welch. With iPhone timer, brutal.

Nice elevator pitch, almost made it.

[playa manhattan]

Did Serious RSVP? Either he got a job, or he's been kidnapped.

[Fist of Etiquette]

No one cares if hockey players take steroids. Go NHL go!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Oh fuck...

Cue teh Canucks.

[Bam!]

Kennedy drunk wasn't that different from normal Kennedy.

[Dweebston]

I'm currently sitting down in a cafe working on homework whilst listening to my friend the aspiring lawyer's former OFA/DNC coworkers, who purely by chance happened to sit down in the next booth. I didn't even realize at first until the mousy one in the crocheted hat began discussing in utterly bloodless tones the phone campaign they're waging on behalf of a state representative south of Albuquerque to persuade voters (or as she puts it, "people they *know* will vote--like, what?) of all the lovely things the Democrats have wrought for them. They're discussing doing impromptu tech support for people stymied by the Obamacare website. I think they need to farm the work out to India.

Seriously, what a waste of talented youth. I don't know that these people could find real work doing worthwhile things, but they're literate, educated, ambitous twentysomethings who've sold out to party hacks and politicians with the hope of themselves someday being party hacks or politicians.

[JW]

Seriously, what a waste of talented youth.

On th eplus side, they've opened up spots in productive companies.

[Derpetologist]

I realized the other day that Stalin's great purge was about 20 years after the revolution. The country was filled with 20 somethings who had known nothing but communism.

[Irish]

Modern politics is like the Catholic church in the Dark Ages. It takes massive amounts of talented and ambitious individuals and puts them to work bowing before altars and worshiping their superiors.

I think the worst part of modern politics is the number of people who could be productive citizens and instead get jobs for life as career parasites.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Don't forget the monks and their useless work improving agriculture and preserving huge amounts of literature.

[Irish]

Yeah, they were wonderful for science and literature when they weren't burning books, stifling scientific advancement or throwing heretics in prison.

It's not like it was just them, obviously.

[Eduard van Haalen]

What scientific advances got stifled in the Dark Ages? Look, there's Galileo, but that was in the Counter-Reformation.

[Eduard van Haalen]

If you want to take thwacks at the Inquisition -and who doesn't? - then you'll have to blame it on the Middle Ages, not the Dark Ages.

[Calidissident]

The Dark Ages were part of the Middle Ages, although you correct that the Inquisition did not take place in the Dark Ages

[Eduard van Haalen]

High Middle Ages?

[Calidissident]

Yeah it started it the High Middle Ages, continued into the Late Middle Ages and into the early period following the Middle Ages (the Spanish Inquisition specifically was a Late Middle Ages/early post-Middle Ages institution)

[Eduard van Haalen]

At a time when even kings and nobles were illiterate, priests and monks, many of them of humble origin, kept the flame of learning alive.

[Derpetologist]

They kept a lot other flames alive too for other purposes.

[Eduard van Haalen]

OK, I walked right into that one. But most of that was post Dark Ages. And the medieval justice system had loopholes most victims of the modern justice system would envy.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Cue joke about loopholes around the neck.

[Derpetologist]

It is true, as you say, that religious folks kept learning alive. Many great naturalists and scientists were monks or other believers.

But is also important to acknowledge that back then, if you wanted to read, the church was the only game in town.

[Eduard van Haalen]

I would call the Dark Ages Church a lifeboat in a sea of ignorance. But see Rodney Stark's challenge to the whole Dark Ages concept.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

The Middle Ages is the subject of many popular myths and misconceptions that still persist today.

No educated person during that time period thought the Earth was flat. There are 13th century representations of a spherical Earth.

Nor did the Medieval Church spurn science or philosophy. Hell, the Crusades itself spurred interest in Eastern science and philosophies as well as in exotic goods like spices and gold.

[Tejicano]

In case this isn't so well known - Columbus wasn't thought to be crazy because he thought the world was round. Everybody of import knew it was round. It was his calculation of the size which was crazy - science of the day had a good idea how big the world was and, baring some unknown islands or a huge freaking continent nobody knew about, they knew it would take months to get around to the Indies. Spanish royalty were nuts to fund him.

[Calidissident]

Yeah, this exact subject came up earlier today. Columbus was a lucky idiot. The ancient Greeks knew that the world was round and almost exactly estimated its radius. For some reason, Winston interpreted me saying this (although worded differently - I said that Columbus wasn't the first person to know that the world was round) as me believing the myth that Columbus's critics thought the world was flat (then again, Winston loves being pedantic) and some other guy got made for me offending St. Christopher when I also mentioned that he wasn't exactly the nicest guy, even for his time. Not that I agree with leftists who try to downplay his historical significance or freak out whenever someone says he discovered the New World (I'm pretty sure it's well understood that Native Americans were there first), but at the same time I see no reason to stick to elementary school whitewashing. He was an important historical figure, but he was a bad person, even if we use relativism and judge him in comparison to his contemporaries.

[Tejicano]

Yup. Regardless of "who was there first" if it wasn't for Columbus the Americas might not have been known to Europe for centuries after 1492. It changed history.

Funny that Columbus went to his grave still believing he had found a shortcut to the Indies.

Measuring the size of the earth was and is a very simple math problem which was pretty much worked out and disseminated centuries before Columbus.

[Calidissident]

True. Also, people bring up Leif Erikson and the Vikings, but news of their discovery never spread to the rest of Europe, nor did they fully realize the implications of their discovery. The historical importance is simply not comparable to Columbus's voyages, even if they happened first.

[Calidissident]

*Wow, that should read "got mad at me," bad grammar and spelling on my part

[Tejicano]

I find it pathetically ignorant when people apply today's mores and morals to historic figures from centuries in the past. Too many people have no idea how different people thought in an era when living to 35 would be an accomplishment. When death would strike people down for no known reason in the space of a week many people would take risks that seem crazy today. Why would they put so high a value on the lives of others outside their family/village/clan when your own life seemed to be so fragile and fleeting?

So many people don't even know that the idea of nationalism is a fairly new concept altogether.

The world was so completely different that it is stupid to assume people would have a similar outlook on anything.

(I didn't even notice the typo you pointed out - just read it as you intended)

[Calidissident]

I take a middle road on this issue. To give an example, I don't think someone who thought slavery was ok in 1814 is as bad as someone who thinks slavery was ok in 2014, but I nonetheless have no issue with condemning a person in any time period for believing slavery is/was ok (and it's not like there weren't plenty of people who realized it was wrong in 1814). Human beings of the recent past aren't genetically any different from us - they were no less capable of empathy or rational thought. I understand contextualizing people and events, but taken too far it reeks of the same modern cultural relativism that many of these same people (who are often, though of course not always, conservative) generally condemn. Islamic fanatics are raised in a very different culture, with very different mores and morals, but that doesn't mean I can't condemn them for violence against civilians or oppressing women. And to me, the fact that people who committed atrocities in the past often masked their actions with superficial justifications (often, but not always, religious) indicates that they were aware that their actions were at the very least morally questionable ...

[Calidissident]

... In the specific example of Columbus, I don't even need to judge him by modern standards, even his contemporaries viewed him as a brutal governor. He was replaced as governor of Hispaniola by the Crown largely for his mistreatment of natives. It's not like the Spanish Crown is/was known for its benevolence towards the natives of the Americas.

As a total side note, pre-modern life expectancy statistics are skewed by the fact that a lot of people died in infancy or early childhood. If you survived to adulthood, your life expectancy was generally much higher than 35.

[Tejicano]

A couple points I consider about people from the past -

Cultural environment : If all (and I don't mean a lot or some) those about you thought slavery was OK you would be a highly exceptional person to see the truth that it is not good. I am thinking further back than than even the 18th century. Another point on slavery - African slaves sold to owners in Brazil (where the huge majority of them went) generally lived only a few months and were treated as a limited use commodity. There definitely were fates worse that the southern US at the time.

Another point - violence was a much more normal part of life in western societies up through the 18th century. It was definitely common for most of history before that. I am reminded how Jared Diamond states that in Papau New Guinea he rarely meets an adult woman who hasn't been widowed a number of times. Small-clan human societies living within walking distance of each other have always been violent places. Western Europe up to about 500 years ago was not at that level culturally but I suspect that it was much closer to that than what we have today.

[Corning]

I would call the Dark Ages Church a lifeboat in a sea of ignorance.

When you are actively sinking other ships you are not a lifeboat...you are warship.

[hotsy totsy]

Printing press not invented until mid 1400s. So books were scarce and not readily available. After Gutenberg invented modern printing, mass production of books was possible, and more and more people learned to read.

[Tejicano]

There's more to it than that. After the protestant reformation people started writing & printing in local dialects rather than just in Latin. This meant that you could start learning to read even if you had not learned Latin first. For many languages like Spanish, German, or Italian learning to read was/is much more simple than it is for English which has never developed a uniform phonetic system.

Of course this wiped out scores of local dialects which were not widespread enough to make it worth printing in but after a few generations those were pretty much obsolete.

[Corning]

But most of that was post Dark Ages.

The only reason you think that is because no one knew how to write down the atrocities because those monks and priests made sure no one knew how to read and write.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I love people who bash the Middle Ages. It's perhaps one of the most complex period in Western history.

Half the shit I read today - particularly on left-wing sites - would give the M-ages a run for their money. Just read how they view the Crusades. That's some myopic ignorance right there.

Yes, I do feel we're in a sort of a dark age.

[SweatingGin]

Also, to add to Welch. Steroids in baseball started in 1994 (not really) and before that, everyone used speed to be better.

Been a little while since I (or anyone else) posted the The LSD No-no.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I WOULD BAN THAT JACKET.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Oh FER CHRISSAKE MATT!

[SweatingGin]

Insofar as Welch just made Kennedy blush...

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ironic means what everyone thinks it means.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Kmele Foster: YOU BETTER TWERK!

[Episiarch]

Welch only wants to ban felch because he was relentlessly mocked in high school with it. And college. And at the Reason offices. And online. And right now.

[Matt Welch]

I know you are but what am I?

[SweatingGin]

Turns out Kmele is actually Heroic Mulatto. Never seen him in a thread when they're on live, have you?

[Francisco d Anconia]

.467

AWESOME!

[SweatingGin]

Amateurs. That's like on the way to work on a Monday morning.

[Episiarch]

I've reached 0.35 before. That was impressive.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[SweatingGin]

AHH! Lou DobbS!

[Episiarch]

OH GOD LOU DOBBS MAKE IT STOP

[Eduard van Haalen]

The Nation runs the inauguration address of that hot, crazy socialist on the Seattle City Council.

I wear the badge of socialist with honor

http://www.thenation.com/artic.....list-honor

[Irish]

This is worse than Lou Dobbs.

[paranoid android]

This city has made glittering fortunes for the super wealthy and for the major corporations that dominate Seattle's landscape. At the same time, the lives of working people, the unemployed and the poor grow more difficult by the day. The cost of housing skyrockets, and education and healthcare become inaccessible.

I'm sure she's got a surefire plan to create the wealth working people would need to alleviate those problems! Can't wait to hear it.

To begin to change all of this, we need organized mass movements of workers and young people, relying on their own independent strength. That is how we won unions, civil rights and LGBTQ rights.

Shit, why not just take credit for the moon landing, while you're at it?

I will do my utmost to represent the disenfranchised and the excluded, the poor and the oppressed?

Go on...

by fighting for a $15/hour minimum wage, affordable housing, and taxing the super-rich for a massive expansion of public transit and education.

YES! WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE TO...extend the light rail to Shoreline? I guess just lowering taxes as a means of reducing the burden on working people is out of the damn question.

How does this mindset cope with the obvious illogic? If your complaint is that the big rich corporations have too much power, why the hell is your #1 policy proposal a gigantic barrier to entry for their potential competitors?

[Sidd Finch]

She has a PhD in economics. I can't decide if that's surprising or the opposite.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Well done guys, the chemistry was really working tonight.

Matt, Kennedy, Kmele, you weren't too bad either.

[Irish]

Yeah, I really felt it tonight. Like half an hour ago Epi started looking kind of hot, and at first I tried to fight it but then I was like "Fuck it. Let's just see how the night develops."

[Episiarch]

(slides hotel room key over to Irish)

[All-Seeing Monocle]

This is what .467 looks like.

[A wild THANE appeared!]

Those were some epic earrings Kennedy was wearing

[Palin's Buttplug]

Kennedy should have been in a John Hughes movie.

The chick the nerds all love. But she loves the town asshole jock instead.

[Derpetologist]

The content of schizophrenic speech is often disorganized. In more severe cases, a jumble of words known as "word salad" reflects utterly chaotic thoughts. For example:

"Upon the advisability of hold keeping, environment of the seabeach gathering, to the forest stream reinstatement to be placed, poling the paddleboat of the swamp morass, to the forest compensation of the dunce."

[Palin's Buttplug]

Derp is your calling for sure.

[Derpetologist]

You were saying something about the surplus increasing the debt?

Here, I have some inkblots to show you. Tell me what you see:

....................../??/)
....................,/?../
.................../..../
............./??/'...'/???`??
........../'/.../..../......./??\
........('(...?...?.... ?~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.??
............\..............(
..............\.............\...

[Sevo]

My goodness! That's some very clever use of the keyboard!
Gotta ask: Do you have that as some sort of a saved series of commands or did you just poke at the keyboard?

[Derpetologist]

I googled "ASCII middle finger". No magic here. Just a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

[A wild THANE appeared!]

BuzzFeed writer / troll is befuddled by The Simpsons, apparently has never watched a cartoon.

[Calidissident]

Head extension/hair one was the only one that made sense and was kinda funny.

[Sidd Finch]

[deep breath]

they're not
this isn't real
character development
why would it?
the stuff on the side is not one hair
ever seen a balding man?
ever seen real life?
good question!
how tall is who?
they do but they all look the same
most popular character
too detailed for a pre-hd cartoon
not aware of "chunky necklace" bans
boring
writers
so you can read it
hair
normals, retard, no in the worst way

[Corning]

has never watched a cartoon.

Why does Wild E Coyote talk sometimes but not other times?

Why does gravity only work when the characters notice they are floating in the air?

Why is Wild E Coyote not dead?

How can a Coyote put together a rocket?

Why does Wild E Coyote walk on two legs?

Why does Wild E Coyote who seems to have unlimited funds and access to the global market not just go to the store and buy a chicken to eat?

Cartoons!!!! How do they work?!?!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Episiarch|1.8.14 @ 9:28PM|#|?|filternamelinkcustom

Decent?!? No one who has gone one Jeopardy! and been in Alex Trebek's presence can be described as "decent". And doubly so if they were on with Art Fleming.

Interesting comment since I'm taking the Jeopardy! online assessment test tomorrow for a chance to participate in the audition process.

Long odds, of course, but why not?

[Episiarch]

Well, maybe I'm just stoned, but sure! They have to take you anyway, you're completely indecent.

[Eduard van Haalen]

No, you have to phrase the question as an answer:"this is the reason to try out for Jeopardy."

The answer is phrased as a question: "what is for the heck of it?"

[SweatingGin]

I'll take The Penis Mightier for $200.

Would you be offended if we chipped in for a bounty to say "Your mother is a whore, Trebek" or similar things?

IIRC, my grandfather tried for it, but didn't get picked. He's got an amazing amount of trivia in his head.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

What about just drawing a huge spurting dick for final jeopardy?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

It would have to be more subtle than that since they'd just edit it out of the broadcast.

[SweatingGin]

Hmm.. doesn't have to air, just make the newspapers? This deserves more thought.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

One of those videos that ends up on the Today Show and news websites. Like "Watch This Jeopardy! Contestant Leave Alex Trebeck Speechless!" as a headline.

More thought indeed.

[SweatingGin]

...and if I didn't make myself clear, I'm willing to place a bet, conditional on you delivering some suitably absurd/awesome message, that somehow gets picked up by national media, somehow related to Jeopardy.

"And for my lifeline, I'd like to call the commenters at Reason's Hit and Run forum!"

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

"J....T...... from La Palma, California. It says here you prepared for Jeopardy! by soliciting advice from people on an online forum?"

"That is correct. I enjoy commenting at Reason Magazine's political blog Hit & Run and you'd be surprised at how much wisdom you can mine from posters nicknamed 'SweatingGin', 'Fist of Etiquette', and 'Episiarch'."

[SweatingGin]

Thank you, thank you.

Instead, if you have the chance, bust out Hillary's Clitdong and Palin's Buttplug. Maybe toss in Ken Schultz for the lulz.

[playa manhattan]

I think you and I might have the same first name (although you might have "white hispanic" version of it).

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

My first name is Joshua, not sure if there is a Hispanic version of it.

[playa manhattan]

You didn't put enough placeholders, unless you go by "Joshy".

I'm James, and I figured that you could be that or Jaime.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I actually go by both Josh and Joshua. Most girls actually prefer referring to me by my full name so I'm not particular about it.

[hotsy totsy]

It's Jesus.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Joshuez?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Leave me out of it, in case you shit the bed on national TV.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Try this.

[SweatingGin]

Will Ferrel as Stossel on the next episode of The Independents.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is on the Sci-Fi channel right now.

[Francisco d Anconia]

My fav.

[SweatingGin]

monster.

[Francisco d Anconia]

And yours?

[SweatingGin]

The Ark, of course.

In a gin haze, I (briefly) thought I could show that to the GinLettes. After all, the faces melting isn't *that* traumatic. No, still got the plane propeller (best part of it when I was 8, too.)

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Well right now Indy just rescued his dad from the Nazis in the tank. The one driving gets shot in the head and we see the blood trickle down his face.

[Francisco d Anconia]

He chose... poorly

[Francisco d Anconia]

Close second.

[SweatingGin]

I can't watch!! Why are they doing this?!?!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Ned Beatty could win 10 Oscars...and you know what will be on his tombstone?

The guy who got fucked in the ass in Deliverance.

[SweatingGin]

You have chosen... wisely.

[MJGreen]

"Poor Ned Beatty. He can play Rudy's dad all he wants, but when we look at him, all we see is him getting rammed in the woods."

- American Dad

[SweatingGin]

Gimli is okay, too, I guess. But screw the stuff he did with Bond.

[playa manhattan]

I passed the test and got the audition. I shouldn't have been drinking before the audition, I know that know.

The test was a 1/2 block from the current Reason hindquarters. Is that still the case?

[playa manhattan]

Second know=now. I can drink at home, that's for sure.

[Sidd Finch]

LOL at the Johnian slip

[SweatingGin]

I shouldn't have been drinking before the audition, I know that know.

No, you did everything right.

[playa manhattan]

There's a bar on the studio lot, it's their fault.

[SweatingGin]

brb, applying for jeopardy.

[playa manhattan]

My advice to Serious: Be polite.

I got an audition along with 2 friends when I was in my early 20's, and when we checked in, one of my friends said "Hi, we're here to have sex with the Canadian guy". The audition ended shortly thereafter.

[SweatingGin]

TIL playa is a fratboy.

I loled.

[playa manhattan]

I was. Married with kids now.

And for the record, one of my friends did end up banging the receptionist. Just because. She was at least 40.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Thing is while I know a lot of trivia and could probably pass the test and do well in the mock games, I don't think I have enough interesting anecdotes or personality.

[SweatingGin]

If you can pass the trivia, you're there to win. You can do the anecdotes, and you can do the personality parts. Not things on H&R, of course. Hell, tap into neighbors. But if you can do the trivia, you can certainly do the rest.

[SweatingGin]

Shit, we'll right the anecdotes, if you need it. They won't all be SF worthy.

[playa manhattan]

You can make up whatever you want. They don't vet the stories. If the paper clip collecting lady can make it on, you can make it on.

Just try to make your face less serious.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I can't help but look very serious when I'm thinking or engaging in a competitive activity like a quiz show, but I'm okay with interviews. I've gotten better at it since I've had to go through them looking for jobs.

[playa manhattan]

Where is the test? A hotel in Culver City, or somewhere in the OC?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

The test is online. You log in to the profile you made when you register and they ask you rapid-fire questions with only 10 seconds to respond.

Supposedly getting more than 35 correct is the magic number to getting called to come to their LA audition, but I don't know where that is.

[playa manhattan]

See you at 7pm tomorrow, sucker!

[SweatingGin]

current Reason hindquarters

Wait, what? That's a helluva freudian slip.

[playa manhattan]

That's the iPhone. It autocorrects based on what I usually write about...

[SweatingGin]

I does that to me, too. I write about the reason hindquarters all the time, too.

[Tejicano]

I thought it was one of those inside things like towing the lion.

[Sevo]

BTW, over in the "Equality vs Liberty" thread there is (or was) a guy claiming we needed to 'design' an economy for environmental sustainability.
And then, having just finished dinner and some reading, there's an article in Fortune on Kock Industries (and somewhat on the brothers). It's not unfair, and if I were starting out, it would be a company I'd apply to in a minute! The theory and practice sound pretty damn appealing to me.

[Derpetologist]

Planned economies tend to be based on beets, firewood, and standing in line.

I don't see how you could have a planned economy and avoid the tragedy of the commons.

[Sevo]

"I don't see how you could have a planned economy and avoid the tragedy of the commons."

And in the warped view of EPA (over there) that might qualify as 'sustainable'.

[Derpetologist]

In the warped view of ecoprogs, "sustainable" means killing off most of the world's population:

"I focus on overpopulation because I agree with Dr. Keith's priorities, but for one amendment. I believe that reducing our numbers is key to reducing poverty (aka scarcity). The fewer of us there are, the larger our per capita slice of the shrinking resource pie will be."

http://beforeitsnews.com/envir.....40851.html

Decrease the surplus population!

[Sidd Finch]

I recognize Frosty from the comments at the Openborders.info site. I don't have many good words* to say about ecoprogs, but Frosty really isn't representative.

*If I had to say a good word, it'd be that they're understanding of modern science and engineering is no worse than "computer driven cars in 2029" Ron Bailey.

[Sidd Finch]

*their

[Sidd Finch]

This comment by the site proprietor and math PhD student at Chicago cracks me up.

Hi Frosty! It's indeed an honor to have you comment on this blog, insofar as it exposes our readers to a diverse range of perspectives.

I'm a bit intrigued by your discussion of the "exponential equation" as you call it. I do have some knowledge of mathematics, having dabbled in the subject a bit myself (though perhaps not as extensively as you have). I'll also admit that I haven't read the references you cite, so perhaps my questions might come across as somewhat naive. If so, I'd really appreciate it if you could bear with me and elaborate.

[Derpetologist]

A PhD student in math has never heard of the exponential equation!?

[Sidd Finch]

working link
http://openborders.info/blog/i.....mment-5263

There's a weird cult around a physics professor who lectures about the "exponential equation." TLDR version is resource usage and population was this in 1900, this in 2000, therefore a bajillionty in 2100. Vipul was ribbing him for proselytizing such a simple concept as if they hadn't considered it.

[paranoid android]

Well this is an odd story, I--wait, what the hell is over there in the top stories list?

Fallen Angels Vs. Belt of Orion: Startling New Pyramid Discovery Warns of Armageddon? (Video and Pictures)

BBC Drops Chemtrail Bombshell! Geoengineering Would Backfire!

Strange Visitors Make An Appearance In Australia (Video)

Ret. Military Scientist Exposes Fuku Cover-up In Bombshell Interview

Mystery Object Baffles Astronomers

Insider Warns Gov't To Detain Those Exposing West Coast Radiation, Lock Them In Detention Camps (Videos)

Where the fuck did you just lead me?

[Derpetologist]

Peace, dalza, I am your trusty Derpa guide.

The peak ahead of you is Knave-2. It is the second highest in all the Dimalayas.

[Irish]

What the hell...

And so, we know that the ancient Egyptians (possibly descendents of the Nephilim, and/or taught by them) prided themselves in precision, and made no mistakes. So what of this mistake in the misalignment of the three Giza pyramids in accordance with the Belt of Orion?

(Snip)

See the belt? Binding, isn't it? And, not only is Satan represented by a dragon and a serpent, but also as the bull!

Is this a picture of the Godly warrior fighting Satan? The belt, for a time (until the kingdom of hell is finally defeated), restricting around the waist? In the past, a belt would have looked more like a cord, tying it together to secure it.

(Job 38:31-32) Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades or loose the cords of Orion? Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or can you guide the Bear with its children?

Just an interesting thought! Maybe dark forces are twisting and perverting the true message in the sky?the message of the apocalypse! The final battle between good and evil?the Kingdom of Heaven Vs. the Kingdom of Hell!

This is pure insanity. And the commenters seem to be on her side.

[Irish]

FEMA CAMPS!

The Reality The real tragedy is that many people are unaware that multiple generations have been exposed to a heartless, and murderous conditioning that will make the infection, and plague claim less victims than those who will take it upon themselves, to identify, and judge everyone they see with what they believe is evidence of an infection or a plague

The Conditioned Mentality

The Consequences The result will be a mob mentality that will drive everyone that possesses what can be construed as marks of infection, or plague that will require many people to leave their homes and head for safety in the wilderness

The Marked Will Join The Infected & Run For Their Lives!

The Infected are Shunned & Hunted For many will be hunted like animals, and reduced to less than what they were, and the authorities made preparations to address this, because they had knowledge that it would happen, and they are ready to corral the unwanted

Where did you find this website?

[Dweebston]

This junk is my brother's ex's bread and butter. She buys into every facet of every conspiratorial claim wholeheartedly: giants being covered up by sinister government forces, the Catholic Church courting aliens but, unbeknownst to them, the aliens are actually demons invading Earth, the FEMA death camps, chemtrails, the antichrist walks among us... she's managed to work herself into such delirium over it that she's emigrating to Panama with her four-year-old to live on a compound, readying her soul for the end times.

I wish I were making a word of this up. She's attractive, early thirties, lively, personable, and totally bonkers.

[Dweebston]

Oh, and the Earth is hollow and all great civilizations inevitably flee to the poles to dwell within.

[paranoid android]

Wait, if safety is at the poles, then why go to Panama!?

This is gonna bug me now.

[Dweebston]

I'll ask the next time I see her, but I suspect it's a combination of a) our civilization is much too barbaric and verging on collapse, ergo whatever threshold "civilizational greatness" imposes is beyond our benighted souls, and b) Panama is where the compound is.

[Derpetologist]

There is only one hard law about derp- there is no end to it.

"We also ask governments to acknowledge the undesirable consequences for their citizens of increasing population density: housing shortages, falling residential property sizes, traffic congestion, transport overcrowding, pollution, loss of amenity and unspoilt areas, and water, food, energy and mineral security issues. We also call on governments to assign responsibility for population to a nominated individual."

http://www.populationmatters.o.....ion_growth

[SweatingGin]

We also call on governments to assign responsibility for population to a nominated individual.

Okay, granted, I'm pretty a little drunk.... does that say what I think it says? *assign responsibility for population to a nominated individual?*

Didn't The Twilight Zone do that? With that button on a slab of wood under a glass bubble?!?

[Derpetologist]

Richard Matheson is such an under-rated writer.

Yeah, you read right. The ecoprogs want a population control czar.

These guys are even nuttier: http://vhemt.org/

[Tejicano]

Oh, I thought he meant that we were going to elect somebody "national stud" and make the rest of us wear condoms or something.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Say what you will, I'd have no problem with a population of about 25% what it is now.

Provided it is done voluntarily.

[Tejicano]

One thing that was mentally brought home to me while backpacking across southern China 25 years ago - you could crowd 25% of all living humans into 6% of its surface and still have a lot of open space. Since then most of the Derp about population crowding has rung like a false religion to me.

[Killaz]

I had a similar experience as I watched a bridge and highway system get ripped up and nature replacing it with a fuckton of plants and wildlife over a period of six months. Empiricism was the cure for environmentalism my young soul needed.

[paranoid android]

The bust of Charles Henri-Sanson comes free of charge with the appointment.

[Tman]

I've shown this page to a variety of chicken littles when they bring the DOOM!, and it never fails.

He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Despite this, much nonsense still gets discussed.

[Derpetologist]

What we need is an economy based on derp- the only real unlimited resource.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

As you can see, Kelvin or GTFO

But Fahrenheit is cool too. Celsius sucks!

[Sidd Finch]

The Fahrenheit story is bullshit.

[Francisco d Anconia]

The scale is basically how cold does it have to be to freeze saltwater (zero Fahrenheit)

Saltwater?

I don't think so Tim.

[Sidd Finch]

Saltwater isn't frigorific. I should be on Jeopardy like those asswipes upthread.

[playa manhattan]

Oh, Sidd! How could you?!?

[Sidd Finch]

My giant brain knows about weird shit like frigorific mixtures and comes up with better-than-average puns, like Johnian slip. And you recognize none of it!

[playa manhattan]

I re-read my comment several times and didn't pick up on it until it was explicitly pointed out to me. I blame the IPAs.

[Francisco d Anconia]

We recognized it, we just didn't want to acknowledge it and have it go to your head. You have hats to think of.

[Sidd Finch]

Actually I am very much a hat guy. Thank you.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Ocean water freezes just like freshwater, but at lower temperatures. Fresh water freezes at 0 degrees Celsius (32 degrees Fahrenheit), but seawater freezes at about -1.9 degrees Celsius (28.4 degrees Fahrenheit) because of the salt in it.

[Corning]

Then what the hell is 0 degrees Fahrenheit based on?

[Sidd Finch]

frigorific mixtures, man

[Francisco d Anconia]

Fuck all?

[playa manhattan]

You're so east coast.

[Corning]

and 100 is the temperature of blood...but they fucked up the scale because blood is actually 98.6

[Sidd Finch]

Considering that you don't know where 0 comes from, why are you so confident you know where the 100 comes from?

[Corning]

I DON'T KNOW!!!

*and by "I don't know" I mean I looked at wikipedia.

[Tejicano]

And zero degrees F was simply the lowest temperature he could reproduce. Since he didn't have any modern refrigeration equipment I think he did exceptionally well to get down that low.

[Sidd Finch]

In an earlier comment you suggested that learned men of Columbus' time knew that the world was round, and now you're suggesting that Daniel Fahrenheit wasn't some mouth-breathing retard. I fear you have failed to learn Important Lessons of our education system.

[Tejicano]

Heck, I thought he was exceptional just for imagining a way to quantify temperature. Most people today don't even know how to explain the difference between "hot" and "heat".

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

When trolling pays off. In a Raw Story minimum wage article, one bold progressive takes offense to my use of logic. This one is a real doozy:

This is one thing you libertarian, let the market run the world idiots will never understand - either because you're too dumb to understand it or because you DO understand it and just want to convince people otherwise: DEMAND CREATES JOBS. What you've described as the scenario if the minimum wage would be raised has literally NEVER happened - EVER - when the minimum wage has been raised. Know why? You raise the minimum wage. and MORE PEOPLE HAVE MORE MONEY TO SPEND. This creates CONSUMER DEMAND - which, in turn - are you paying attention, idiot? JOBS. CONSUMER DEMAND CREATES JOBS. NOT businesses. NOT CEO's. NOT "business owners". DEMAND. Right now, millions of Americans work full-time and have to be on public assistance just to get by. $7.25 is NOT a living wage - and it is not just "teenagers" working those jobs - it's fathers, mothers, middle aged people, older people, younger people - FAMILY people. You want to create jobs? STOP PRETENDING THAT "BUSINESS OWNERS" create them. CONSUMER DEMAND creates jobs. You talk about "business owners" hiring "less" people if the minimum wage goes up? Literally NEVER HAPPENED when it was raised before.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

continued:

Oh, sure, there's a brief adjustment period - and then do you know what has ALWAYS happened and ALWAYS will once the minimum wage is raised? Guess what? All the people now earning a LIVING wage, or at least closer to one, are now able to live in BETTER apartments, step UP from the poverty line and begin BUYING MORE STUFF - and guess what that means, idiot: it means BUSINESSES HIRING MORE PEOPLE to keep up with CONSUMER DEMAND. What you morons (or, again, liars, because I'm convinced that you know how the economy works, as this is BASIC FUCKING ECONOMICS, and you're selling the "get rid of the minimum wage" nonsense because you want the CEO's and "business owners" to get richer, while paying as little as they want to their employees - and NO, the "market" doesn't mean that they'll start paying more because "people won't want to work for them", because the more power CEO's have and the LESS power the middle class and the lower middle class and the poor have, the less CHOICES they have - but you know all this - or you don't and you're a moron - either way, you're a dick) - but to continue - what you morons either can't accept (or again, do, but intentionally ignore, because it doesn't fit in with your attempt to replace Democracy with Plutocracy) ) is that it's not the CEO's or the "business owners" (which, by the way, I AM, and a successful one at that) that are the "job creators"

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

- WE ARE - EVERYBODY IS - CONSUMER DEMAND; and the better off we all are? The richer the "business owners" will be, and the better the economy will be and the lower the unemployment rate will be, and the lower the deficit will be and the more new businesses will open up to meet the demand and the more JOBS will be created...because the people who BUY STUFF - you know...the "market"...will buy MORE stuff. Here endeth your lesson in HOW A FUCKING ECONOMY WORKS that will not just protect itself from imploding, but sustain itself in the long term. Now - as I'm guessing that you'll either ignore what's been said here or come back with some of the turbot squelch people like you ALWAYS come back with - and I know all of the "arguments" - I'm not going to respond to whatever you say - because, honestly, I've hit my limit this month of explaining BASIC FUCKING ECONOMICS to SOCIOPATHIC TODDLERS. Happy New Year

How long do you think it took him to write all that?

[Irish]

That is the most hysterical thing I've ever seen. You should ask him how consumer demand builds a factory without a business owner to pay for it.

Also, ask him why we should stop at $15. Say that he's convinced you and that now you feel a $100 minimum wage is the only reasonable solution.

Think about all that demand!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Not worth it since he's vowed not to respond to anything I say. But I feel I got some pretty good digs in a very hostile thread.

One person cited a WaPo article about how increasing the minimum wage to $10 would automatically lift millions of Americans out of poverty.

I pointed out that it would make formerly unattractive low wage jobs attractive to the unemployed with degrees and previous experience, which would increase the pool of labor for businesses to choose from and thus effectively price out the unskilled, inexperienced from the market.

Which means teenagers would suffer the most, especially teens in blighted urban areas who--wait for it--tend to black, the same group of people Arthur Laffer said on Fox was being screwed by minimum wage laws.

[Irish]

That's good. Also point out that if someone goes from $18,000 a year to $21,000 a year, they have now gone over the poverty line and are out of poverty...however they've only gained $3000 in benefit from the law.

Meanwhile, if someone loses their job, they go from $18,000 to 0.

That means that minimum wage laws help the people who retain their jobs but does far more harm to an increasingly large pool of unemployed people. That's not even getting into the fact that prices go up, which means that the unemployed have any savings they might have eaten up even more quickly.

[playa manhattan]

"are now able to live in BETTER apartments"

Then who will live in the shitty apartments?

[Irish]

what you morons either can't accept (or again, do, but intentionally ignore, because it doesn't fit in with your attempt to replace Democracy with Plutocracy) ) is that it's not the CEO's or the "business owners" (which, by the way, I AM, and a successful one at that) that are the "job creators"

What business does this illiterate person own:

A) He runs a blog and counts that as owning a business

B) He's a progressive trust fund baby who inherited daddy's business and is currently in the process of running it into the ground

C) He's just blatantly lying and is not a business owner.

[Tman]

It's pretty easy to pop the progressive minimum wage bubble.

Reminder: 1.1 Percent of U.S. Workforce Makes Minimum Wage

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, among those paid by the hour, 1.6 million Americans earned the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour in 2012. (The data for 2013 hasn't been released yet.) Of these, 484,000 are aged 16 to 19.

So? the Democrats' big idea on income inequality is one that will increase wages for? 1.1 percent of the workforce.

[Irish]

And 53% of people making the minimum are under 25.

So they're actually only raising the wages of about .5% of people who actually have legitimate bills to pay.

[Tman]

WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE ADOLESCENTS??

[Calidissident]

And a significant % of those remaining are a second earner for their household and have a spouse that makes more than minimum wage

[paranoid android]

Well, be fair, that's a slightly dishonest reading of that figure. Only 1.1% actually make the minimum, but if the minimum is raised everybody who was making somewhere between the old floor and the new one will see their wages go up.

Though of course for a lot of those such an increase would be fairly marginal and hardly lifting anyone out of poverty.

[MJGreen]

I find it hard to believe that a successful business owner has the time to write all of that drivel for a rawstory comment section that will be ignored by morning.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

There's no way that hyper, projecting ignoramus hipster-doofus owns a business.

Consumer demand creates jobs?

I took a few economics jobs in my life and don't recall hearing that one.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Did you pop out his eye and fuck his skull?

[playa manhattan]

Yeah, do that Serious. That would be a good anecdote for a Jeopardy audition.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

"It says here you once got into a heated argument with a liberal on a The Raw Store, and you ended up quote "gouging out his eyes and skull-fucking him?"

[playa manhattan]

Don't respond to the question. Just nod and smile. It'll play well in the audition.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Yes, Alex, it's actually a funny story. This idiot was blathering on about Keynesian economics, and knowing such assholes will not acknowledge reason, I thought it better to kill him by stabbing him in the brain with my dick.

[playa manhattan]

I signed up for the 7pm test tomorrow. Remind me to be sober.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

**narrows eyes** Come 6:30 I'll consider you my enemy.

[playa manhattan]

Why? I'll have been working for 12 hours and I'll still have all the right answers.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I'll be at a funeral in the morning until the early afternoon, so that leaves me plenty of time to...well not prepare since I never study for tests.

But I won't be harried.

[Tejicano]

I find that the best way to go to tests for which the subject matter is too broad.

When I took the GMAT I found out that I only had one week to prepare - the test date I was initially told would be OK actually turned out to be too late for my planned enrollment. I burned through some material for that week but went in cold on the day of the test. Result : 97th percentile (I am nowhere even close to that smart)

[Calidissident]

Kebert Xela

[Tejicano]

revelc yrev

[Sidd Finch]

You want to create jobs? STOP PRETENDING THAT "BUSINESS OWNERS" create them.

Fueled by High Lifes I made it this far. I'm gonna need a lot stronger stuff to forge on.

[playa manhattan]

IPAs!!!

[Sidd Finch]

I said "stronger", not "hipsterer."

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Honestly I think what really struck a raw nerve with a lot of the progs there was when I said this:

Only 3% of Americans work for minimum wage jobs. Now let's say we raise it to $10.10, that means unemployed people who were not attracted to minimum wage jobs at $7.50 are now going to consider working those jobs.

So we have more people competing for either the same amount of jobs or even less, as innovations and technology eliminate the need for low-skill positions. How does that help more people in the aggregate?

You simply price out the unskilled in favor of those with more experience. Good luck getting a job if you're a teen, the previously unemployed sociology graduate is going to be taking my order at McDonald's or bagging my groceries at the market.

The whole article was about Arthur Laffer saying black teens were hurt by minimum wage, something that's indisputable. And all I wanted to do is show them Laffer is absolutely correct in his assessment by demonstrating that actions have consequences!

[Irish]

That's definitely what set them off.

"HE RIGHTFULLY POINTED OUT THAT MY MAJOR MAKES ME BORDERLINE UNEMPLOYABLE! PROGRESSIVE SMASH!"

[Corning]

IRONIC RACISM!!!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Night all.

[Suthenboy]

Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing.