J.D. Tuccille Talks Talked Government Shutdown (If Only) on New Hampshire's WEZS at 9pm ET

Tonight I chat on the Tom Brown show on New Hamphire's WEZS about the governmentworkersonthestreetsocalypse! That's right. Soon, employees of the Environmental Protection Agency will be running riot, looting organic farmstands instead of your paycheck as usual. Well, your paycheck gets looted, too. Sorry.

I wrote, earlier, that shutting the government down now and reining in spending may well be a better idea than not shutting it down and letting it bankrupt us and our children over the decades to come. But then, I'm a dangerous radical.

Comments

[Mike M.]

Reason needs more Tuccilles and fewer cosmos.

[Cytotoxic]

This.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I don't understand what that means.

[Brandon]

Nothing. It's neocon slang for "somebody who said something I disagree with for a reason I can't articulate." It's the neocon equivalent of libs calling people racist for disagreeing with Obama.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Conservatives with a few libertarian tendencies, yet lacking real libertarian principles, giving libertarians shit for being libertarian?

That about cover it?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

"Cosmotarian" is a stupid label, but there has to be a good label for the type of people who will embrace libertarianism only to the extent to which it is palatable to people living in DC (and who have no understanding of it outside that context).

Matt doesn't really fit in that category, but I'd say that Suderman and Goldberg do.

[Calidissident]

The problem is "cosmotarian" (and based on your first sentence, I think you'd agree) is used more as a meaningless slur than any actual substantive description of any sort of libertarian or pseudo-libertarian individual. I don't think there's a single Reason writer that hasn't been accused of being a cosmotarian. I'm sure someone's used it against Tucille at some point. Antiwar Libertarian (an obvious satire of Rockwell, Raimondo, etc.) was once called a cosmotarian by American. I'm not sure in what universe the LRC crowd would be considered cosmotarian, under any meaningful definition of the word.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Agreed on all counts.

[Warrren]

We need a Venn diagram all up in this bitch.

[Irish]

Matt doesn't really fit in that category, but I'd say that Suderman and Goldberg do.

Goldberg as in Jonah Goldberg? I don't think Jonah Goldberg has ever even pretended to be a libertarian. He's pretty upfront about being a Republican with a few libertarian commonalities.

I don't think it's fair to criticize Goldberg for not being something he never claimed to be.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I meant Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic.

[Irish]

Oh. I've never actually read much of him. Friedersdorf is sometimes like this too, although he's on the right side of things often enough that I give him the benefit of the doubt. He's a bit wishy washy and overly moderate, but he's about as libertarian as someone writing for the Atlantic can possibly be.

[PapayaSF]

Jeebus, I hate this sort of People's Front of Judea splittist crap. If "cosmotarians" like Suderman, Jeffrey Goldberg, and Friedersdorf were in charge of DC instead of the crypto-socialists and time-servers we have now, I'd fall on my knees and thank the gods.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[Generic Stranger]

Splitter!

[Jordan]

It means people are all butthurt because Suderman keeps pointing out why the Stupid Party is the Stupid Party.

[SIV]

Suderman is regurgitating the Stupid Party DC Establishment-line over the more libertarian-leaning radical conservative position.

[JeremyR]

Except he's not.

He's repeating the words/line of thinking of the Stupid Party establishment, one why the Stupid Party shouldn't be less stupid and more principled.

[Killazontherun]

By repeating the same rhetoric as the Peter with the surname King, Suderman is mouthing the same rhetoric as the Stupid Party.

[Calidissident]

I don't recall if he's talked about this in his articles, but is Suderman in favor of the GOP raising the debt ceiling with no conditions, or does he favor them pursuing concessions other than defunding of Obamacare?

[Killazontherun]

I recall it being the later, and my complaint about that is if they did, they would be indulging in the 'we can cut waste, fraud and abuse' that polls well but has limited (though I would still do it) value beyond that. In other circumstances, Peter would have rightfully seen through the very thing he recommended.

Sorry, for the late reply, didn't see your question earlier.

[Calidissident]

I would hope for something more substantial than "waste, fraud, and abuse." And if not spending cuts, then regulatory concessions or something similar.

I definitely haven't totally agreed with Suderman's take by any means, but I don't think it's fair to compare him to Peter King, who is steadfastly pressing for an unconditional raising of the debt ceiling

[Francisco d Anconia]

New Hampshire's Weapon Engagement Zone.?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Wiener Enlargement Zone. The Free State Project needed sponsorship, so...

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Wookie Enfranchisement Zoo

[Warrren]

Winnipeg empanada zapatos.

[Brandon]

Reason needs fewer commenters who use the word "cosmo."

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

You sound cosmo

[Francisco d Anconia]

With Carl Sagan.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

he likes appletinis

[General Butt Naked]

Takes one to know one, canaditarian.

[Tulpa (LAOL-VA)]

So now Reid and Schumer are demanding that the House vote on the Senate version of the CR? When they are blocking the Senate from voting on the House version?

Does their hypocrisy know any bounds?

[Sevo]

"Does their hypocrisy know any bounds?"

Ha and ha!

[Andrew S.]

My Team Blue friends are just full throated right now. The Republicans never compromise, the ACA is settled, it's terrorism, whatever. It's incredible.

[All-Seeing Monocle]

Republicans must learn to compromise. Note: anything Democrats want is off the table for compromise.

[db]

That's what this is all about--getting the base to cheer on the Team again. They were so depressed about the 2nd Term Blues, the apparent abandonment of Anti-BOOOSH policies in favor of domestic spying, the hard-to-avoid-seeing continuing economic doldrums, they needed a pick-me-up and something to scream about again.

Well, they're getting it. Christ, it's like watching a witch-burning or a fascist rally.

[SweatingGin]

I was going to do a quick check to see if the Kos Kids were in favor of funding Kamps for their opponents yet... but I couldn't stomach actually clicking a link there.

[SweatingGin]

And there would have been a greater message
If the Boehner House only got the bare minimum support of 217. It's terrible optics when Dems are voting for the gimmick bills the GOP is putting forth. Collins and the GOP in the Senate all vote party line even though they are out saying the House should accept the clean raise. Because they understand that voting with Senate Dems would be terrible optics and put all the pressure on Boehner to bring it to the floor.

A reasonable analysis. Let's finish that comment off with an out of the park line:

These House Dems undercut the President, the party and the Country.

You know who else undercut The Party?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Chris Hayes begins with a loaded question to Welch. "Why should a majority of Americans be held hostage to a minority of House Republicans?"

[SweatingGin]

I missed out on a lot of shutdown hysteria today. Only caught occasional doses of it. If all goes as planned, tomorrow could just be full of it.

Yummy tears, I can taste them already...

"How could they shut it DOWN!?! Who will raid the medical marijuana dispensories?!?" (nah, raids on medical MJ dispensaries are essential, we can still do those.)

"OMG! No one will be able to approve beer labels!" (yes, labels/names of beers have to be approved by the Tax and Trade bureau)

[mr lizard]

Cigar City's Florida Cracker or Jai Lai... They'll taste great during the shutdown.

[SweatingGin]

WHO WILL ENSURE THE COLOR FASTNESS OF THE FABRIC FOR MY SEATBELT?!?

[Francisco d Anconia]

Who will determine how much water my toilet can use?

WE. ARE. DOOMED.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Fucking Huffpo:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....19301.html

[Certified Public Asskicker]

The country's national parks would be forced to close without a government funding deal, as would Smithsonian Museums, disappointing countless potential visitors. But humans wouldn't be the only victims of a shutdown. The National Zoo would close and turn off its panda cams, which means no more livestreaming of adorable pandas.

Livestreaming of pandas, that's the best they can do.

[SweatingGin]

Turn the cameras back on, kill pandas in front of Ted Cruz's kids until they give in to all spending.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

You mean Ted Cruz's malnourished, influenza stricken kids.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I recall reading an article damning pandas as a degenerate species of lazy inbreds too lazy to adapt and evolve.

[SweatingGin]

I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species. I wanted to open the dump valves on oil tankers and smother all the French beaches I'd never see. I wanted to breathe smoke.

With EPA shutdown, we can!!!

[All-Seeing Monocle]

How is that an example of humans not being the only "victims" ? Is the GEICO lizard watching those adorable panda cams?

[Cascadian Ephor Xenocles]

The pandas just love being stars of their own exploitative TV show. I guess it beats reproducing, since they suck at that.

[Irish]

The country's national parks would be forced to close without a government funding deal, as would Smithsonian Museums, disappointing countless potential visitors. But humans wouldn't be the only victims of a shutdown. The National Zoo would close and turn off its panda cams, which means no more livestreaming of adorable pandas.

The only way those last two sentences make sense is if you assume that pandas somehow gain personal enjoyment from being put on camera.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

And you are not upset that exhibitionist pandas will lose funding? Monster!

[Sevo]

"Livestreaming of pandas, that's the best they can do."

THERE ARE STARVING CHILDREN! THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO CUT!
DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

[Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)]

The SD Zoo Pandas are more interesting, anyway. As is most everything else in San Diego vis a vis Washington.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Why is everyone changing their handle?

[Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)]

In my case, to escape my sordid past.

[PapayaSF]

And what is the cost of a panda cam? It draws little power. Do they have employees monitoring panda cams 24/7 so we never see them screw or kill each other, or what?

[VG Zaytsev]

But humans wouldn't be the only victims of a shutdown. The National Zoo would close and turn off its panda cams, which means no more livestreaming of adorable pandas.

So what's watching the panda livestreaming, if it's not humans?

[Francisco d Anconia]

*barf*

[General Butt Naked]

11. DOJ DISRUPTION: Attorney General Eric Holder on Monday warned that a shutdown would have a "disruptive impact" on operations at the Justice Department. He pointed fingers at the House of Representatives and stated that there are "good, hard-working Americans who are going to suffer because of this dysfunction."

Those medical marijuana dispensaries aren't gonna raid themselves.

I like how it's 11 reasons a shutdown is terrible for you (me?) when none of those things will affect me in the slightest. Hell, I'm fucking glad they won't be doing those things.

Fucking panda-cams, really? Really?

Jesus.

[Irish]

The DOJ will be stopped in its noble task of denying black kids in bad New Orleans neighborhoods the opportunity at school choice, hiding the sale of assault rifles to Mexican drug cartels, and trying to insure voter fraud by attacking ID laws.

The horror.

[Sevo]

Hey, maybe it'll be stopped from its noble task of throwing black kids in jail for smoking a joint!

[sloopyinca]

OT: Who do you guys see getting the USC job? There's no way del Rio jumps ship in the middle of this season and they're gonna need to name somebody before mid-December for recruiting purposes.

Sarkisian? Chow? Those are the two names I think will pop up.

[Calidissident]

Current USC student here

Sarkisian's name has popped up, but I don't think he's at the top of the list. Still hasn't accomplished much at UW, and I really wouldn't want him unless he has a really good year this year. I don't think Chow has any shot at all.

Chris Petersen would be my dream pick. I'd also like to see us go after Kevin Sumlin, Art Briles, Charlie Strong, Pat Fitzgerald, or Gary Patterson. I'd prefer if we hired a college coach, and from what I've heard that is what will likely be done. Another possibility that would be high risk-high reward is James Franklin. He's not too experienced, and he hasn't beaten anyone particularly good, but he's the first guy to lead Vandy to 9 wins in 100 years, so that counts for something. He's young and energetic, and I think he could be a great coach, although I'd prefer to go after someone a little more proven.

[Warrren]

Greg Schiano is a great coach! I'd hate to lose him, but it's to good an opportunity for him to pass on.

[Calidissident]

I'll pass

[SweatingGin]

It's Libertarian Christmas Eve!

I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much.

Somehow I think the orange cryer will play grinch.

[Palin's Buttplug]

A good bloody shutdown will take about three weeks. I doubt the GOP has the balls. 15-1 against it happening.

[sloopyinca]

Um, if you want to piss off GOPers, you may want to find one of their blogs.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Nah, I am pulling for a shutdown. I like a good crisis.

[sloopyinca]

Then you're pulling for a shutdown for the wrong reason, assclown.

[Sevo]

No surprise there.

[SweatingGin]

Michigan Proletariat Radio, who have just outright terrible journalism in general (Daily stories on the horror of wolf hunting!), have a story up on shutdown fallout.

More shutdown fallout... what will happen to the ArtPrize art in the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library in Grand Rapids? Michigan Radio's Kate Wells explains that the library could go dark at midnight tonight with two top ten finalists locked behind the doors.

Won't somebody please think of the art prize?!?

[Irish]

The fact that they're talking about things like this and unfilmed pandas makes me think that we shouldn't be worried.

[SweatingGin]

Indeed.

Medical MJ dispensaries will still be raided. The ammo is already bought.

Cars will still be searched without a warrant in border areas. Internet traffic will still be eaves dropped on. Weapons will still be given to Syrian terrorists, Drones will still be dropped on allied ruler's opposition. ATF will still be smuggling cigarettes, and still giving guns to Mexican drug gangs, and still entrapping mental defectives.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

And junk mail. We will still get our junk mail.

[General Butt Naked]

It's funny that they're pulling out all the shit people probably didn't think their tax dollars were going for. I'm sure that the average worker will be sooo disappointed that they're not losing part of their paycheck for the art prize or panda-cams.

[SweatingGin]

If it actually does turn into a shutdown, and Orange Cryer doesn't cave in the first 24 hours or so, it'll be great to put together lists of what is shut down. Although I suppose normal yearly funding wouldn't show up as much, as it's not like they cut the check for the Cowboy Poetry Festival or Art Prize right at the beginning of the FY.

From the sounds of it, the LOC shutdown (and maybe others) is particularly dumb. Shut off the webservers, too, presumably just having them offline. Seems like a static "This page shutdown by heartless anarchist rethuglicans" would be more useful.

[Winston]

Man, the MSM shutdown panic is real weaksauce. I am teh disappoint in the statist fucks over in the MSM.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

The Atlantic: This is all the Republicans fault

This time, the fight that matters is within the Republican party, and that fight is over whether compromise itself is legitimate.** Outsiders to this struggle -- the president and his administration, Democratic legislators as a group, voters or "opinion leaders" outside the generally safe districts that elected the new House majority -- have essentially no leverage over the outcome. I can't recall any situation like this in my own experience, and the only even-approximate historic parallel (with obvious differences) is the inability of Northern/free-state opinion to affect the debate within the slave-state South from the 1840s onward. Nor is there a conceivable "compromise" the Democrats could offer that would placate the other side.

As a matter of journalism, any story that presents the disagreements as a "standoff," a "showdown," a "failure of leadership," a sign of "partisan gridlock," or any of the other usual terms for political disagreement, represents a failure of journalism*** and an inability to see or describe what is going on.

This isn't "gridlock." It is a ferocious struggle within one party, between its traditionalists and its radical factions, with results that unfortunately can harm all the rest of us -- and, should there be a debt default, could harm the rest of the world too.

[Irish]

I like that the same wing of the Republican party that gave us George Bush is now nobly fighting against the vile libertarian horde.

It is a ferocious struggle within one party, between its traditionalists and its radical factions, with results that unfortunately can harm all the rest of us -- and, should there be a debt default, could harm the rest of the world too.

How would there be a debt default in this scenario?

can't recall any situation like this in my own experience, and the only even-approximate historic parallel (with obvious differences) is the inability of Northern/free-state opinion to affect the debate within the slave-state South from the 1840s onward. Nor is there a conceivable "compromise" the Democrats could offer that would placate the other side.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Really? If you can't think of a historic parallel, let me help. There were 7 government shutdowns during the Tip O'Neill/Reagan era. There was one during the Clinton/Gingrich years. If you want a historical parallel, why not go with the 8 government shutdowns in the last 35 years instead of fucking slavery?

[Winston]

I like that the same wing of the Republican party that gave us George Bush is now nobly fighting against the vile libertarian horde.

I imagine in 20 years they'll be writing hosannas about Cruz and Paul being oh so reasonable when compared to the current GOP.

If you want a historical parallel, why not go with the 8 government shutdowns in the last 35 years instead of fucking slavery?

'Cause the latter implies your enemies are racist fanatics who cannot be reasoned with and war is the solution? Gee why would progtards like that parallel?

[sloopyinca]

We need a debt default more than we need a short-term government shutdown. Being downgraded is a whole lot more palatable to me that what's going to happen tomorrow.

It will lead to foreign currencies that are solvent being purchased as safe securities and will establish (hopefully) a desire from the government to actually be fiscally responsible and not further overextend our credit.

I'm afraid neither will happen to the degree that our "leaders" will stop spending like drunken sailors, but a man can dream, can't he?

[Winston]

You Know Who Else benefitted from their country being unable to pay off its creditors?

[sloopyinca]

George Soros?

[benji]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/i.....57/199.jpg

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doom-paul

[benji]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/i.....05/078.png

yesssss

[Sevo]

Folks, what will be shut down is that which the politicos think will cause the population the greatest displeasure; panda-cams, museums, etc.
What won't be shut down is things like the DOJ throwing black and brown kids in the slammer for dope. No PR cred in that; blacks and browns vote Dem regardless of springing the kids.

[Greg83]

Of course you're correct but hopefully a least some people who aren't blind partisans will be able to see through that charade.

Obama shut down the self-guided White House tours due to the sequester. Out of pure spite of course - it only costs a couple of hundred thousand dollars a year to keep going. My liberal brother is now a congressional staffer and he was complaining to me about all the angry constituents he has to deal with when he informs them about the shutdown. I hadn't laughed so hard in ages.

[NSA Corey]

Fear not reasonoids, I won't be going anywhere.

[Nephilium]

So this is going to be like the Sequester times 9/11 times 2356?

[Banjos]

Sooo...how does this work? Is it like New Year's Eve? Do we all yell "Happy Shut Down!" at midnight (EDT)?

[Greg83]

No, obviously all existence will cease for eternity. Without the federal program that keeps the universe expanding we're all doomed. Enjoy your last few minutes on this mortal coil.

[Warrren]

The event horizon is coming right at me!

[Killazontherun]

By God, you hit upon it Warren! Government is the information theory equivalent of a black hole. Oh, damn it, Benford kind of covered this already in Blood Music. Sorry if I got your hopes up for a Nobel Prize.

[Warrren]

Blood Music? Goddam what a reference to pull. Kudos.

[Killazontherun]

Thanks. It's on my mind because I'm reading Redemption Ark in the other browser window. Definitely seeing a more explicit connection between Reynolds and Benford regarding machine plagues in this book than the earlier ones in that series.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Should auld government debts be forgot and never brought to mind?

[benji]

The White House Office of Management and Budget has sent a memo to federal agencies informing them the government will shut down at midnight.

"Unfortunately, we do not have a clear indication that Congress will act in time for the President to sign a Continuing Resolution ... Therefore, agencies should now execute plans for an orderly shutdown due to the absence of appropriations," wrote OMB Director Sylvia Mathews Burwell.

"We urge Congress to act quickly to pass a Continuing Resolution to provide a short-term bridge that ensures sufficient time to pass a budget for the remainder of the fiscal year, and to restore the operation of critical public services and programs that will be impacted by a lapse in appropriations," Burwell added.

[benji]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/i.....33/205.jpg

[Francisco d Anconia]

I say again:

WE. ARE. DOOMED.

[benji]

INTERNET STILL UP SOMEHOW

[Francisco d Anconia]

I still have my arms and legs. How can this be?

[Warrren]

Chainsaw and battle-axe delivery for a Mr. Dan Conya!

Sign here, please.

[Guy LaGuy]

If only there'd recently been an election that showed the people's will regarding the healthcare reform.

[benji]

The election with Mitt Romney?

[Irish]

Yeah, you mean the election where two people who were both in favor of this type of health care reform ran against each other?

[Killazontherun]

If only we had a constitution that prevented elected officials from operating outside the enumerated powers therein listed.

[Greg83]

He must be referring to the House majority party, many of who were elected in 2010 to stop this atrocity. I'm just shocked some of them actually are acting on their mandate.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Holy shit, CNN has a Government Shutdown Clock in the corner of the screen. We've gone 7 minutes without a fully functioning government!

Anyway, the jackass-in-chief is helpfully reminding the troops that war is still very much open for business and they'll 'try' to keep them well-supplied despite the evil Republicans destroying government.

Oh, and the War in Iraq and War in Afghanistan is over, you're welcome.

[William of Purple]

Chris Matthews is telling us how it is on Charlie Rose.

[Warrren]

Matthews/Rose slash fiction?

[William of Purple]

Jose Canseco ?@JoseCanseco
I will bring CansecoCare to Washington and fix this crap if I have to. #yeswecanseco

[Greg83]

If that means free steroids count me in.

[William of Purple]

Google streetview hotties