Get Cuffed for Filming Police; Your Dog Gets Upset; Cop Kills Your Dog [UPDATED]

Here's the way it is, America: annoy a cop, even doing something perfectly legal, and he might cuff you. And if your dog sees it and gets upset, he might kill your dog.

Latest example in this video uploaded to YouTube yesterday from Hawthorne, California  of a man filming police on the street, when they then approach and cuff him.

Warning: if watching a dog die would upset you, don't watch. It looks to me like the cop was approaching the dog before the fatal moment more than the dog was attacking the cop:

UPDATE: A local news source, the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin, notes the police claim that the dog owner, Leon Rosby, was playing his car stereo too loud at an investigation scene. Rosby has had past run ins with the police, the paper reports:

Rosby spent the night in jail on suspicion of obstruction and was released at 5 a.m. Monday.

He said Monday he believed police were retaliating against him because of previous run-ins and struggles with officers. Court records show he has previous convictions for resisting, battery and driving under the influence. Rosby, who is black, said he has filed six complaints against the Hawthorne Police Department, alleging mistreatment and racial profiling.

Rosby filed a lawsuit against the city of Hawthorne and two police officers in March, contending officers broke one of his ribs when they responded to a domestic violence disturbance at his house, not far from the dog shooting scene.

"There's been a pattern of harassment against him and other African-Americans in Hawthorne," said Rosby's attorney, Michael Gulden. "Last July, the police responded to his home and beat him unnecessarily, then threw him in jail for no reason. We sued for that. We'll amend that complaint to include the dog incident."

UPDATE II: Rosby discusses the incident:

Comments

[Almanian!]

This is today's "Cops Shoot Dog" story, right?

Oh, wait...

[daveInAustin]

As painful as it is to watch the dog die, the shooting seems more justified than the arrest.

[Gindjurra]

Given that the arrest was itself a federal crime (18USC242), the act of shooting the dog was much the same as a burglar shooting a homeowner.

If you are a criminal aggressor, it becomes difficult to claim any action was a legitimate act of self-defense.

The dog's hypothetically intended use of force would have been a lawful use of force, to stop an in-progress felony.

[Brian Macker]

Sorry dogs are not presumed to know the law and what is proportional force. Any human would have known that the arrestee was in no danger for his life. No human would lunge at an officer to bite him at this point.

You have zero information yourself to determine if he was arrested for valid reasons. The arrestee instigated with the police, and turned around to be cuffed at their mere approach. Did he confess to some crime? Was he advising a suspect to resist. We don't know. Apparently he thought there was a reason to go quietly, but the dog didn't get that message. In fact, putting the dog in the car indicates to me he was a) aware it was not controllable in what he planned to do. b) he planned to confront the police.

[Bryan C]

You're right of course. The cops place themselves at great risk by even allowing civilians to have dogs.

It'd be much safer if our police officers proactively shot every dog they encounter, just in case they need to arrest or speak to or shoot the owner for some reason at some later point.

Really, we've inconvenienced these brave men and women for far too long.

[sgs]

Your entire post fials, because it's the cops job to arrest the guy in a way that avoids killing the dog if possible, and he did not do so.

"The arrestee instigated with the police,"

Which is nothing and you're stupid for mentioning it

" and turned around to be cuffed at their mere approach. "

So, the person being arrested was compliant, but the cops still needed to arrest him in w way that required they kill his dog?

You do realize you destroyed your own argument with that right?

[TheZeitgeist]

Sorry dogs are not presumed to know the law and what is proportional force. Any human would have known that the arrestee was in no danger for his life

That notion only works if its a two-way legal street vis-a-vis dogs. And since it isn't that notion is bullshit.

Dogs have a say in the law, ask any 'K9' cop about the veracity of a dog's opinion. You kick the 'K9' if it attacks you, its 'assaulting an officer.'

[Brian Macker]

Sorry dogs are not presumed to know the law and what is proportional force. Any human would have known that the arrestee was in no danger for his life. No human would lunge at an officer to bite him at this point.

You have zero information yourself to determine if he was arrested for valid reasons. The arrestee instigated with the police, and turned around to be cuffed at their mere approach. Did he confess to some crime? Was he advising a suspect to resist. We don't know. Apparently he thought there was a reason to go quietly, but the dog didn't get that message. In fact, putting the dog in the car indicates to me he was a) aware it was not controllable in what he planned to do. b) he planned to confront the police.

[sgs]

It was colossally stupid the first time you posted it.

[Free Society]

fuck you twat. the cops should know what is proportional force and they clearly didn't. they didn't need to murder the guy's dog. any jackoff, inlcuding a jackoff like you, should be able to reconcile the situation without killing the dog. These cops have tasers, pepper spray and brains, there was no need to shoot the animal.

[Hyperion]

As long as we Americans continue to put up with this shit, it will continue to get worse.

[sarcasmic]

What choice do we have? What can be done short of a revolution?

Gone are the days when neighbors all knew each other and looked out for each other. Now everyone is a potential creeper of some sort. Maybe a sex offender. If you move to a new neighborhood and make an attempt to meet your neighbors, you're a fucking weirdo. They'll probably call the cops. Ever had a new addition to the neighborhood introduce themselves? Probably not.

Together we stand, divided we fall. We're divided down to each apartment and house! Fuck! Community? What the fuck does that mean?

I wish I had never brought my daughter into this world.

[Hyperion]

We would have to do something on at least the scale of the protests in Brazil, and we would have to be pretty well agreed on what we want.

We aren't going to do that because we might miss the latest episode of Americas got talent. Priorities, you know.

I don't really talk to my neighbors. They all keep to themselves, and everyone pretty much do not trust anyone else, like you said. Cause you know, those guys over there, they might be for that other team that I don't like.

This division thing is the problem. The political class have done a thorough job. We're divided by race, religion, sex, sexual preference, political philosophy, etc., etc.. And they aren't done yet, they're still busy trying to divide us more.

The only real solution is for the US to split into several smaller nations, and one of them better be Libertarian as hell, because that's where I'm going. We'll need nukes.

[Brendan]

If every incident like this led to a dozen dead cops we might see a change in their behavior, or at least fewer of them around to do stuff like this.

[Gindjurra]

And that's why so-called Progressives have been working for decades to disarm us all.

Because if good citizens saw this shit happen while armed, those cops would not, could not survive their crimes.

[Brian Macker]

Yeah, they would even be justified in being wary when doing their jobs, and there would be even more violence.

[Mensan]

Unfortunately, you're probably correct. I personally hope that some psychopath decides to go all Dexter, but instead of choosing murders who got away, he picks his victims from The Agitator stories.

[Brendan]

How much more violence?

As a whole, people are being nice, respectful, and cooperative and this is what's happening.

In a sense, if the police are already at '10', does it matter that finally fighting back might make them go to '11'?
I say no, because it brings with a good chance of pushing them down to' '6'

BTW, this concept of not doing anything because it will make things worse is the opposite of the doctrine in self-defense or aggression towards other types of hostile actors.

No one says that we can't fight back against gang members, rapists, robbers, etc. because it will only make things worse. We recognize that the ability to stop actions in progress as well as deter future actions may outweigh the risks inherent in escalating.

I apply a similar concept here. How much worse can they get if they find themselves under fire either in pure self-defense or in revenge/retaliation? If enough are killed, they will either learn the lesson or see their numbers reduced to a point where they can't do harm.

Eventually people will start to realize that the possibility of scaring them into behaving or reducing their numbers if that fails is worth risking more escalation.

[Brian Macker]

Yeah, they would even be justified in being wary when doing their jobs, and there would be even more violence.

[sgs]

Delivering pizza is more dangerous than being a cop.

Cry more now.

[Monty Crisco]

Is your fucking keyboard sitting on a sheet of carbon paper? Or do you think double posting your statist drool makes it DOUBLY effective?

[Alan9074]

How about firing the whole worthless police force and having community-friendly patrols instead? Cool story about a private company keeping Detroit neighborhoods safe for the people, WITHOUT police.

http://www.policymic.com/artic.....ng-awesome

[Bryan C]

Community patrols? But what about those awful white supremacists like that murderous George Zimmerman fellow?

[Harvard]

["We should be applauded for doing this," he said. "It's a good thing."]

Cop's name and address. Kneecap when off duty. Send tasteful floral offering to hospital bedside. Contract out to biker gang or DIY for twice the pleasure.

[Hank Phillips]

What about voting? I just posted the dog video with a translation of what happened in a much worse country. In Brazil people desperately need dogs because the US-backed looter prohibitionist government prohibits them (not cops and tax collectors) from owning guns. Every chance I get I pay dues, distribute doorhangers, publish stuff and make cash contributions. This is exactly what alruist looters did to get things as messed up as they are beginning in 1848. The Solomon Asch experiment proves there are three weak-minded fools for every honest person, so more effort is required of us. The advantage, however, is that mindless tools aren't that hard to defeat once you understand the alternative to inaction. The witness was filming thugs who stopped him from properly securing the dog, then initiated force against the witness and killed the dog that tried to protect his rights. Solomon Asch would ask: who saw anything different?

[juris imprudent]

Look it was a black man with a guncamera and a vicious uncontrollable dog. Don't you understand how threatened those cops were?

[Luddite]

Never ever walk your dog while black.

[VG Zaytsev]

As long as we Americans continue to put up with this shit, it will continue to get worse.

And how the fuck are we supposed to not put up with this shit?

[Gindjurra]

Bushmaster. Smith. Wesson. Colt. Remington. And other scary-sounding names that the "progressives" want to never be spoken again.

[wwhorton]

Look, cops live places. My neighbor is a city cop, and we're friends. My wife and she talk all the time, and we're always over at each others' houses for a few beers in the back yard. I make no bones about my political beliefs, and when we're over in her yard sitting in a crowd of off-duty cops, I take every opportunity to, in a nice, friendly way, remind them that they're not the Gestapo, and they're not even "in charge"; we are. I also make sure that I talk about how awesome it is when cops are in touch with the people that live where they work, and how it's the best of all worlds when cops LIVE where they work, as if they're, you know, civilians who we hire to make sure nobody gets murdered in the street and stuff. That whole "protect and serve" thing.

There are much more effective ways of getting people to come around, and although being able to defend yourself is obviously important, the goal of the long game is to change the culture such that cops see themselves as part of the neighborhood, not an occupying army.

[Sevo]

Look, there's a dog over there and a cop over here; what do you expect?

[Bryan C]

There's a man with a dog over there, tellin' me I got to be-- Oh, nevermind. They're dead.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Not watching this.

[rho]

I shouldn't have watched this; I have a rottweiler.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Good call, fuck me for watching.

[Good God]

It's amusing for about 3 minutes.

(Until the dog gets shot. That part sucks.)

[some guy]

This one is particularly bad because its in HD. Fucking cops. You can tell the dog is just as afraid as they are. This isn't some attack dog. It's just worried about its owner. If they had just let the guy deal with the dog before they went on their little power trip this shoot would not have happened. Fucking cops.

[Brian Macker]

Yet, it attacked.

[some guy]

When did it attack? It approached, then cowered. Then when the cop approached it, it jumped up at him as dogs often do with new people. If the dog had wanted to bite him it would have been much more aggressive at the start, rather than cowering like it did. That dog's behavior was classic "I'm confused and a little afraid" behavior, not "I'm going to rip your face off" behavior.

Also, the dog's owner clearly could have controlled this dog if the cops had given him the chance. Instead they cuffed him for no reason and continued to manhandle him as the dog approached and he tried to explain that the dog was not violent.

[Brian Macker]

They gave him the chance when they quite apparently asked him to restrain it in the car. Yes, in hindsight they could have done things different. They didn't.

[The Fatman]

Jesus, This MUST be a Dunphy Sock-Puppet. Hey Brian why don't you go die in a fire you cop-sucking piece of shit? The cops had no reason to arrest the dude, so everything they did after was illegal. The dude complied with the pig-shit assholes because he didn't want to get shot. Seems he was fucking prescient no? Scum-bag thugs gotta thug.

[Brian Macker]

Look it is quite obvious you are an irrational violent person that hates cops. Of course, you are going to see a problem with this guys behavior in harassing police while holding a large dog. You are qualified to make any judgements. You are willing to kill me for stating an opinion. How would you feel if I was at your dangerous job with a large dog screaming my opinion at you?

[Brian Macker]

There were quite a few "nots" that my IPad decided to erase because of typos. You get the drift.

[The Fatman]

Eat a bag of cop dick. It is what you are good at. You are an authoritarian fetishist. I did not say I was willing to kill you fuck face. That would violate the NAP. I am simply asking why you won't die in a fire? What's wrong with that? It's probably better than you deserve.

[some guy]

Please calm down, Fatman. The name-calling and swearing make it much easier for people to ignore you.

[The Fatman]

Rage is having a deleterious effect on my language skills. Brian is either a troll or an authoritarian scum. Nothing I say will change this piece of shit's mind so...I see no reason not to go full rage-boner on him.

[sgs]

"I see no reason not to go full rage-boner on him."

Lemme help, cause I care

Fatman + idiot troll causing him grief by being a moron = James Gandolfini.

It's not worth it just for Dunphy's sock puppet.

[sgs]

"The name-calling and swearing make it much easier for people to ignore you."

God, shut the fuck up concern troll.

[sgs]

I get that you lied about the dog attacking, got caught in your lie, and decided to attack the person who caught you lying.

[Monty Crisco]

Why don't you just post "Yet, it attacked" again?

FOS

[Free Society]

Look it is quite obvious that you are an authority worshiper, too busy rimjobbing your overlords to make qualified judgements.

[Bryan C]

You do realize that dogs aren't pit vipers, right Brian?

[Brian Macker]

You do realize that dogs aren't babies, right Bryan? They are not harmless. A cop doesn't have to risk a bite by a large dog that is attacking. You have zero idea what was going through that cops head. He may have thought the dog was done with its aggressiveness when he was trying to approach and restrain it. Maybe the guy never owned a dog. Etc.

Self defense law is such that in many places you could shoot a human for trying to bite you. Biting is a felony if not in self defense. This was a dog.

I think it was excessive but the cop was the one making the call in this situation. I'm making it from the safety of my house.

[The Fatman]

And yet, mailmen, meter readers, UPS delivery, on and on, interact with large dogs every day and never kill one. Keep sucking that cop Brian. Slurp Sluprp

[Bryan C]

"A cop doesn't have to risk a bite by a large dog that is attacking."

That's where we differ, I suppose. I've had dogs run at me many times. It's not so much a "risk" as "something that can happen if there happens to be a dog around."

I really don't care if cops are occasionally bitten by dogs. I expect cops to function within society without treating everyday occurrences as "risks" to be eliminated with lethal force. And when actual risks do appear then, frankly, they're paid to take those risks. And trained. And equipped.

The rest of us are not so paid, trained, or equipped. Yet somehow we make it through the week without flying into a panic and shooting random people's dogs to feel safe. I guess it's a miracle we're all still alive.

[some guy]

You have zero idea what was going through that cops head.

It doesn't matter what was going through his head. What matters is the action he took, which was to shoot frightened and confused animal. As others have pointed out, delivery people, door-to-door sellers, utility workers, etc. deal with dogs like this every day without shooting them.

[wwhorton]

So, it doesn't matter what was going through the head of the person brandishing a firearm on a public street in broad daylight who has been given the authority to stop and cuff someone at his own discretion? If the average cop is EXPECTED to unload on whatever is making him/her nervous, how is this enhancing public safety? To put it another way, would you sell a firearm to someone who is going to shoot anything he/she finds threatening in a public place?

[wwhorton]

If you held people to the standard of the dog, they'd have shot the owner first. Is that what we're doing now? If you make a cop nervous it's open season? Yeah, can't imagine that would make the job more dangerous. Shit, the cops are armed and probably wearing vests; the dog's on a leash and the guy's wearing a t-shirt. Seems to me like he's the one in danger.

[Episiarch]

So there's this profession where, if you join it, you can kill people's dogs with near impunity. You also get to do things like shoot people who run away from you or maybe make the mistake of having a cell phone in their hand. Even if you are punished for something, it may be as simple as losing your job and even if there is real punishment, it will always be less than someone not in this profession would get. I wonder who might find that job appealing?

[Gojira]

I had to end a conversation on Sat. with a buddy of mine who insists on asking about my political beliefs every time we hang out because of something along these lines.

He was pointing out how databases, while potentially abusive, can also help to catch murderers and rapists (who, as a PI and son of an FBI agent, he assures me make up fully 1/3 of the human population), and somehow the convo came around to the harrassment of people who film police, even where legal.

His response? "Well, it may be legal in theory (emphasis his), but as a strictly practical matter, you should always do exactly what a police officer tells you at all times. Really these people all bring it on themselves by purposefully antagonizing the police. If the person stopped filming when ordered to, he wouldn't have been physically mistreated. If the police officer was wrong to give the order, he could contest that in court afterwards. But you should never, under any circumstance, defy a police order at the time it is given, or you deserve whatever happens to you."

That's as close to verbatim as I can get it. I'm sure it's been colored by my rage since then. Sometimes I wonder why I hang out with that guy.

[Finrod]

Here's hoping your 'buddy' has an encounter with police, does everything they ask, and still gets roughed up/has his pet killed, since it seems that that's what it would take to change his mind.

[Episiarch]

The mantra of the authority-worshiper: OBEY. Always. Even if you're right and they're wrong, obey anyway. You should ask him about that. Why should you obey if you are in the right? I'd love to hear his answer, though I can guess what it will be: because.

[sarcasmic]

Have you ever stood up to the cops, tough guy?

Try it. See what happens. They'll beat the shit out of you, break some bones if they're lucky, and then charge you with a crime. You'll be out thousands of dollars, weeks of your time, and there will be no justice. None.

So what's the point, there, anarchist? What's the point?

[Episiarch]

You seem a tad wound up, buddy. And your face is greasy. Real greasy. You been up all night?

I don't really understand your question. I wanted JJ to explore his friend's underlying basis for why. I imagine he has no underlying basis.

[sarcasmic]

I'm sure his basis is reality. In reality, even if you are right, they are right. Why? Because they can do violence without consequence. Because they take great pleasure in doing violence. Because they wake up every morning eager to do violence because they know there will be no consequence.

His friend understands this and knows that, as a practical matter, it's best to obey.

Because the alternative is them taking great pleasure in doing great violence on you, your pet, your child, your parents, all without consequence.

[Monty Crisco]

Gotta agree with Sarc on this one. You will never win an argument with a cop. Even if you are right and can somehow defer your gratification until that day in court when you are awarded your compensation (after multiple surgeries and thousands of dollars of lawyer fees because they beat the shit out of you), you STILL won't get any satisfaction of saying, "Fuck you, I'm right and you are fucking wrong" because before those words can even leave your mouth that cowardly piece of shit behind the badge will have place a baton in it at full speed and you will be spitting teeth. And NOTHING will happen to him - except maybe a paid vacation.
YOU.CAN.NEVER.WIN.AGAINST.A.COP.
Get it in your heads people. If you have ever been through basic training in the military, that is the attitude you need to have with a cop.
I fucking hate it too, but I am not licensed to beat people up on behalf of the government.

[Gojira]

Eh, we've talked at length on this over the many years we've been friends, and his underlying thing is order and the elmination of crime, at any cost.

His brother ruined himself on drugs, and his dad was an FBI agent for decades, so he sees psychos and addicts hiding behind every tree and shrub. Totally against the 4th amendment (makes it harder to catch criminals) and against any drug legalization, and indeed wishes cigs and booze were to be made illegal (with all the new social media people willingly use and the searchable databases we have on everyone, given enough resources, we can make a total prohibition on any addictive substances really work this time! After all, if it's addictive, then the user isn't actually making a free choice to use it; he is being coerced by the addiction, so it should be illegal).

[jasno]

Authority is addictive...

[Sevo]

..."Totally against the 4th amendment (makes it harder to catch criminals) and against any drug legalization, and indeed wishes cigs and booze were to be made illegal (with all the new social media people willingly use and the searchable databases we have on everyone, given enough resources, we can make a total prohibition on any addictive substances really work this time!"...

Holy cow! Jim, there must be something that makes the guy's company worthwhile, but that description would have me avoiding the guy with that proverbial 10' pole.

[Gojira]

*shrugs* If the subject of politics is avoided, we get along great. It's just that one area that we're 180 degrees apart on.

[Sevo]

"*shrugs* If the subject of politics is avoided, we get along great. It's just that one area that we're 180 degrees apart on."

Well, now that I think about it, wife and I enjoy the company of a couple where there is no use discussing politics. None...
Shrug back atcha.

[Gojira]

He was the one who first got me into motorcycles, which has since become one of the major passions of my life, so there's that. In fact, after that discussion, we spent the rest of the day in my garage repairing my bike.

Shrug back atcha

Gay!

[Libertymike]

Invite me next time you and your wife get together with this couple; I guarantee we will be talking natural rights philosophy and why this New Englander thinks the 1972 Dolphins were better than the 2007 Patriots.

[Tejicano]

"elmination of crime, at any cost"

Hhmm... seems to me that when a cop ignores your rights and assaults you simply because he can get away with it a huge crime is being commited against you.

Sounds like more of "we had to destroy the village to save it".

[sgs]

So order some shit from silk road and have it sent to his house.

See how he likes a no knock raid in the middle of the night.

[Almanian!]

What Epi said.

I recommend you start drinking. Heavily.

Or, if you've been drinking, stop for a bit.

Cheers, sarc!

[sarcasmic]

Suck it.

[Libertymike]

It pains me to read that you and epi are bickering.

Reminds me of Ronnie "the FBI snitch" Raygun's old line about the 11th amendment being "thou shalt not speak ill of thy fellow [anarchists]".

[sgs]

"Have you ever stood up to the cops, tough guy?"

Yup.

And none of the shit you whined about happened.

[sarcasmic]

Your friend is right. Fail to submit to one of the king's men and you're in for a world of hurt. Right and wrong? Meaningless. All that matters is who has the last word in violence, and that is the cops. Sue them afterwards? Remember that the police are officers of the court. So you're asking the court to punish their own men. Good luck with that. Best to just submit because the alternative is at best being locked in a cage with murderers and rapists, and at worst being executed in front of your wife and children.

[Gojira]

That was pretty much the thrust of his argument. It wasn't so much that it's right in the moral sense of the word, but rather, it's the reality of the world, so either move somewhere else or shut the fuck up and deal with it.

[sarcasmic]

There is a reason I will never ever step foot in Boulder CO again, and why I live in a town with no police force. I. Loathe. Pigs.

[Libertymike]

Okay.

I have openly lit up in the Pearl Street Mall area, in the late Saturday afternoon / early evening daylight, after a Coloradah Buffaloes game.

Later, I wandered over to an area where two or three masseuses were offering 10, 15 or 30 minute seated massages. I picked a pretty masseuse who freely and voluntarily agreed to partake with me apr?s massage.

She invited me to a party and a good time was had by all.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness.

We hate cops.

[sarcasmic]

Pearl Street is indeed a magical place.

[Old Man With Candy]

I tried the same thing and, for all my trouble, was called "a really creepy old man."

I had the last laugh, though, and her head looks great in my freezer.

[jasno]

Ya know, I don't understand why we as a country can't come up with consistent, explicit guidelines for dealing with LE. Whatever the procedure is, it should be spelled out and well known by all. Given that the likelihood of dealing with LE is 100% in our overcriminalized times, we should teach this shit in high school.

[sarcasmic]

It's pretty simple: Submit and obey or be beaten or killed.

Supreme Nazgul said as much. When the cops break the law, you do what they say anyway, and take it up later in civil court if you've got the coin.

[Brendan]

Obeying doesn't guarantee things will go well.

I think it's getting dangerously close to the point where the people need to shoot first.

[sarcasmic]

I for one will look the other way.

[Free Society]

You'll get no moral objections from me.

[Hyperion]

Consistency, that everyone can understand?

Bwahahahahaaahhhaa!

Why do you hate the politicians and lawyers. They need jobs too you know.

Things are intentionally vague so that our political class and their goons can interpret it anyway that they like.

[InlineSkate]

It's battered wife syndrome. If only I listened my teeth wouldn't be on the floor.

[juris imprudent]

Please introduce me to your friend so I can kick his balls out his ears.

[General Butt Naked]

...or you deserve whatever happens to you.

I know he's your friend and all, but he really does need his teeth knocked down his fucking throat by Officer Donowrong.

It's the only way.

[VG Zaytsev]

He was pointing out how databases, while potentially abusive, can also help to catch murderers and rapists (who, as a PI and son of an FBI agent, he assures me make up fully 1/3 of the human population)...

If your not one of the state's sociopaths you're a dangerous villain.

If the person stopped filming when ordered to, he wouldn't have been physically mistreated. If the police officer was wrong to give the order, he could contest that in court afterwards. But you should never, under any circumstance, defy a police order at the time it is given, or you deserve whatever happens to you."

Some large percentage of the population seems genetically wired to be subservient to authority.

[Gindjurra]

Scary fact: even WITH the blue wall of silence and the reluctance of officers to arrest fellow officers, police have nearly three times the arrest rate per 100,000 individuals than the general public does for sexual assault.

Your friend's attitude applies equally to criminals. Does he believe that you shouldn't resist a mugger, a rapist or a kidnapper, lest you be physically mistreated in revenge? Does he believe you should just press charges later?

If you resist being raped, do you deserve to be raped and killed, making the rapist fully justified in doing so?

[fish]

Well if he wasn't acting so damned "doggy" the officer wouldn't have had to shoot him.

Thanks Reason for todays nut punch....can't imagine what it would be like getting through the day without one.

[sarcasmic]

This has got to stop. It's time for the sheep to kill some pigs.

[sgs]

Better sarc, you were wilting there for a bit.

[Brandon]

Dunphy, is this one of those "weak as fuck" allegations?

[Almanian!]

Totality of the fact pattern, not trained, except when they're trained, case law, thin blue line, IMHO. hth

[Homple]

Officer safety.

[Brian Macker]

No, watch the video. The dog lipunges to bite an officer. The dog attacked the officers and they did not approach it. They were holding the arrestee as another officer approached to protect them from the approaching and threatening dog. The arresstee failed to properly secure his dog by leaving his windows open.

[GroverinCA]

You know, Brian, thousands upon thousands of meter readers, postal employees, and general contractors are approached by unknown pet dogs every day. They do not shoot these dogs.

Cops are held to a different standard than non-cops. Notice I did not say a "higher" standard.

[Bryan C]

This.

[Brian Macker]

Guess what, they also don't need to restrain owners who are harassing them at their jobs.

[Brendan]

Define harassment.

Also, those people can't detain/restrain people who might be "harassing" them. They have to be mature and simply ignore it.

[The Fatman]

They also don't have six buddies with them to help. Or guns, or tasers. Yet they don't kill peoples dogs. Keep suckin that cop Brian.

[sgs]

You already admitted this guy " turned around to be cuffed at their mere approach. " so clearly the cop had no need to restrain him because he was compliant.

Why do you insist on lying?

[Free Society]

Oh so now recording cops in the official capacity is harassing them? You really are pathetic. If this guy had shot a police dog he'd be treated as though he'd killed an actual human being. But you'd be okay with that too.

[The Fatman]

Please die in a fire you cop-sucking piece of shit.

[Brian Macker]

Most people who disagree with the unreasonableness of this article won't respond precisely because the other side is obviously irrational and motivated by hate. Otherwise you'd see way more comments pointing out how batshit insane you are. You think you are reasonable, LOL.

[The Fatman]

Most of the regulars know that I am bat-shit insane and so ignore me dumbass. I am made that way be cops that act like they are above the law and cop-suckers like you that think that is right.

[Free Society]

reasonable= gurgling cop jizz

[sgs]

I love that the Dunphy callout brought him but he was too fucking stupid to log out of his sockpuppet account.

[dannyboi]

That is downright disgusting. Everyday, I hate cops more and more.

[jasno]

Watched the video... wish I hadn't. I can't fault the officer for shooting the dog, but I can fault him for detaining a guy, handcuffing him, failing to ensure he properly secured his dog, and failing to back off, get the guy out of cuffs, and make him deal with his dog. Yeah, sure, the guy could have used the dog to attack the officers or some horseshit, but then they could've shot them both and it would have been just.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

So the cop was justified in shooting because the cop was a fucking moron?

[Thane-kin]

I assumed that it was probably ambiguous, but the idiot walked toward the dog right before he shot it.

[TommyD]

What happened to their tasers or pepper spray. They really needed to use a gun? Hopefully this guy wins his multimillion dollar lawsuit, and those cops lose their jobs and are forced to actually work for a living, and not just harass people all day in their cruisers. Scumbags.

[Hyperion]

In a just world. But not in Murika. The guy might win a settlement, paid for of course, by the tax payers. But nothing will happen to the dog killers.

[juris imprudent]

Least of all in Hawthorne.

[Brian Macker]

Pepper spray would be useless the dog was in mid lunge with open mouth ready to bite.

[The Fatman]

Suck that cock Brian, it tastes good don't it? You like when the Big-Blue splooges in your mouth don't you?

[Cyrano]

Wait, you say we gave the government monopoly control over policing, and it's abusing its power? I'm shocked!

[Salvatore]

Well maybe your dog needs to learn how to stop resisting and take a course in officer safety!

[Apple]

Well, you warned me and I watched it anyway. I'm actually glad I did, although I suppose I might have a couple nightmares tonight. Fuck.

[Irish]

Wait. What did the guy do to get cuffed? Was he filming the cops with a cell phone?

[juris imprudent]

That is first degree failure to lick boot. He's just lucky they didn't shoot him in a cross-fire.

[Brian Macker]

Watch the video. He instigated an interaction with them and his tone wasn't like he was offering donuts.

[GroverinCA]

Yes, watch your tone and submit. Stop resisting!

Please suck on cop teat somewhere else, Brian.

[The Fatman]

Yes, Yes, Suck that cop when he uses the big-boy voice. Cover in fear and lick those jack-boots Brian. You must eat nothing but cop-cock every day.

[Free Society]

Yeah he instigated it by breaking no law in existence. His tone alone was enough to earn the dog a brutally sad death.

[RBS]

I just had to watch the video. Now I'm fucking pissed.

[Luddite]

Fucking pigs. Chickenshits behind a badge. No better than a gang of thugs and incompetents.

[SeaCaptain(Yokeltarian)]

"he just shot the dog, man!"

[Zombie Jimbo]

Not that lightening the mood is really called forn after this hideous story, but its the only handy cop thread I could attach it to:

http://delcotimes.com/articles.....224416.txt

[Otto Partz]

As a dog owner, I am sickened again by another cowardly, trigger-happy cop with no respect or common fucking sense or even concern for his fellow officers. Just makes me hate cowards like this.

[SeaCaptain(Yokeltarian)]

You don't have to be a dog owner to be sickened by this; those bullets were paid for by the taxpayer.

[Brian Macker]

Huh, he just prevented his fellow officers from being mauled by a dog.

[The Fatman]

Slurp, Slurp, SSSSlurp. Get it all in Brian. That will show them all what a big man you are.

[Free Society]

I had him pegged as more of a salad tosser, but I'm sure Brian doesn't discriminate.

[Dave Krueger]

I hope that cop rests comfortably in the knowledge that a creature of far more significance in the universe than he will ever be, is dead.

[Starbrander]

You Have The Right To Film Police....They Just Murdered A Dog While Violating The Guys Rights

[Nathan Cox]

The comments on this board make me sad.

One: I'm highly doubtful that this guy was arrested for filming if for no other reason than the fact that the guy right across the street who was also filming was not arrested. All of this talk is conjecture presented as fact until someone can produce an actual arrest record.

Don't present conjecture as fact, all that does is make it seem like you have no actual position to stand behind aside from being intentionally obtuse.

Two: Unless you have actually been attacked by a dog, you should refrain from comment. I am a dog lover; I own two now and have owned several in my life. However, I have also been attacked by dogs intent on ending my life on the streets. Dogs are incredibly dangerous animals, and most humans do not give them the credit they deserve.

A bite from that dog would shatter bone, mangle flesh, and possibly (if not likely) leave permanent nerve damage. As a dog lover I can say without hesitation that had the dog jumped at me the way it did at the officer, and I had a firearm in my possession, I would have fired. The guy didn't start shooting as soon as the dog was in range, he started firing after it lunged at his hand. This is perfectly reasonable, though unfortunate.

The only person to blame here, if anyone is to blame at all, is the dog owner for failing to properly restrain his dog. End of story.

[RightNut]

Then maybe don't read the fucking comments you fucking slaver.

One. The guy was asking police questions unlike the people across the street, and he was being much more obvious in his filming.

Two. What type of retard logic is that. That's just another way of saying you don't want people who disagree with you to speak. Their was what 6 police officers outside at that point, and they couldn't find a way to restrain one dog? Or you know what they could have done, UNCUFFED THE GUY THEY ILLEGALLY ARRESTED AND LET HIM LOCK HIS DOG IN THE CAR.

The only person to blame here, is the cops for arresting someone for something that is completely legal, and slaver fucks like you who jump to cops defense no matter the circumstances.

We already have met our quota for cop apologist on this site. Get the fuck out.

[Brian Macker]

He is sad you are so irrational. Which you demonstrated in spades.

[sgs]

I find his post totally lucid and coherent.

You're the one saying it's ok to kill dogs when their owners are doing nothing wrong.

[VG Zaytsev]

I think a lot of people, like Nathan Cox, use the he must have done something to deserve being arrested as a psychological defense to avoid the fact that they live in a police state, where anyone can be arrested for any and no reason.

They have been propagandized their whole lives, from grad school to the present week, to believe that we are the government, that America is a free country and that the police are their friends and public servants.

[Brian Macker]

Bullshit, he gave a reason. In fact, it couldn't be the filming because he no longer was doing it and others still were. In fact, he is the one who prepared for the altercation by putting the dog away,and stopping the filming. He is responsible for getting the dog killed by not securing it properly. Everyone knows a dog can jump out an open window.

[VG Zaytsev]

So putting the dog away and stopping his filming was provactive to the cops.

Huh, huh,

You just proved my point about the US being a police state then.

[Brian Macker]

No, he was harassing them. He pulled up to an active hostage situation with his windows down and radio blaring, they tell him to shut off the radio, he, get's out of his car with his dog (WTF) and starts yelling at the cops causing more trouble. The bystanders even point out that he didn't turn off his radio (as he was instructed). The people who took the video are laughing at his insanity, but you think it is reasonable. This dog owner was irresponsible.

[Free Society]

the cops approached him with hostile intent. Not the other way around.

[Brian Macker]

Well if enforcing valid laws that fit the rules of no first initiation of force count as hostile. The dog owner should not have initiated his trespass of blaring his radio, and stopping to harass the cops with his large dog in tow.

[Brian Macker]

Your reaction is reasonable and the article was an utter fabrication. In fact he was arrested when he wasn't even filming, and went out of his way to interact with the police.

[VG Zaytsev]

It's pretty clear the cops were walking over to him when he was putting the dog in the car and likely telling him to come over to them.

Maybe he should have pretended that he couldn't hear them and GTFO of there. In which case there's a better than even chance that the cops would have pursued him as a fleeing suspect.

[Brian Macker]

Pretty clear he wasn't even filming before they started his way and he was screaming at them a long time before that.

[GroverinCA]

Because screaming is illegal.

You're a power worshiper who belongs in a different, much more authoritarian country, Brian.

[The Fatman]

Keep sucking Brian, you'll prove your worth to your Overlords yet. Make sure to swallow that load so they KNOW you love them.

[Luddite]

Funny that, I've had screaming contests (you know, 1st amendment and all that - course, you probably don't give a shit about such things) with policemen (not cops or pigs, because these people actually have a brain between their ears and aren't afraid to use it), and yet those encounters have never resulted in detention, arrest, or any other manner of "problem". And certainly not in anything getting shot / tasered / billy clubbed, whatever.

I guess that's what happens when you have intelligent people doing their jobs, instead of pseudo-neanderthals with the mental capacity of a flea doing the job. Go figure.

You see, when adults disagree, they tend to get heated about the situation (depending on the particular adults in question), which usually leads to an increase in voice volume. Yet somehow, it doesn't always devolve into an exertion of force from one party to the other. This is called an argument. Look it up, you might learn something.

[Brian Macker]

Read the police report, and listen to the bystanders to see that their comments criticiIng this jerk fit the report. The report is consistent with the video and the dog owner was causing trouble at a serious crime scene while it was in progress. They told him to stop prior to this. When it was over they came by to deal with him.

No you are NOT allowed to blare your radio and scream at the police while they are trying to handle a hostage situation. You guys are a bunch of unreasonable cop hating jerks, just like the guy in the video who got his dog killed. Dogs deserve better owners than this wife beating asshole.

[The Fatman]

Oh no, another cop-sucker to join Brian. Jeebus we are getting an orgy of cop-suckers.

[The Fatman]

I think you misspelled your name Nathan. Shouldn't it be Cocks. As in Cop-Cocks. It's what you like to suck right?

[Estela]

Only sane comment I've read. It really is sad. What so know the cop has to take the chance of a dog attacking him? Have you geniuses thought about how much money it would cost the city to have an injured officer?
Pay his salary, hospital bills, physical therapy. What if the dog attacks someone else or even the owner?
You can love dogs all you want but facts are facts. The dog did lunge at the officers hand. The dog did show aggression and didn't allow the officer to grab the leash.
You all are seriously suggesting that the cop should have let the dog bit him? Seriously?!?!

[Brian Macker]

"Reason" magazine seems to be popular with the unreasonable. Read the police report. Turns out this dog owning jerk was interfering in a hostage situation by blaring his radio, and was asked to shut it off. He had no business in the area and was driving by, noticed the active crime scene and then injected himself into the situation. None of the other people fiddling did that.

[deeyui]

Der Grund f?r diese lange Wartezeit ist, dass jeder Handtasche von nur ein Experte Handwerker erstellt. Aber die Leute immer noch auf der Warteliste sein und ?ffnen Hermes Kelly bag ihre Geldbeutel f?r die Taschen. Hermes Taschen haben unendlichen Charme der Tat.

Heutzutage ist der Anstieg von gef?lschten Industrie wird immer mehr und mehr schnell. Die Auswirkungen von Falschgeld hat jeden Winkel der Welt erreicht und viele Mode-Unternehmen wie Luis Vuitton, Gucci, Prada und Hermes beteiligt. Da Handtaschen von Hermes exklusiven Kreationen sind, gibt es einige Leute, die die Vorteile sind von der gro?en Nachfrage nach diesen Designer-Taschen. Hermes taschen

[PRX]

you know who else had a sense of fashion?

[buybuydandavis]

I guess all the brave guys willing to deal with dogs without killing them are delivering mail for the Post Office.

[Brian Macker]

I started watching the video fully expecting to be outraged. The description in the article does not match events. At the time of the altercation the bystander had stopped filming and put his dog in the car in obvious preparation for confronting the police. He starts verbally harassing the police, and as they approach he offers his arms behind his back for an arrest. At that point it is the dog that jumps out the window and attacks the police. The dog gets shot as it leaps up on it's hind legs to bite.

[Bryan C]

Putting your dog in your car after walking your dog = "obvious preparation for confronting the police"

Walking toward cops as they walk toward you = "confronting the police"

Speaking in a raised tone of voice with fellow citizens employed to protect and serve = "verbally harassing the police"

Let's simplify this. A dude is out walking his dog while filming some neighborhood drama with his phone. Two guys walk over to him, looking to talk. He puts his dog in his car and meets the two guys halfway on the public sidewalk. They speak to each other. The two guys grab the man. The man's dog leaps to his owner's defense. The two men shoot the dog and drag the owner away. The End.

But no outrage? Remarkable.

[Brian Macker]

He was not arrested for videoing, and that was the first of many lies. He in fact was breaking the law by blaring his radio at a crime scene (and likely noise ordinances). He stooped his car to harrass the cops at a hostage scene.

[The Fatman]

SLURP, SLURP, SLURP. Man you are a cop-sucking machine. Did you get a grant from DOJ to develop your skills so highly?

[Brendan]

Yep, you're a piece of shit Brian. We get it.

Nobody does creative writing, spin, and/or pure fiction better than the police and their supporters.

For a group that isn't that particularly smart, they've gotten pretty good at spinning a good yarn.

[sgs]

"I started watching the video fully expecting to be outraged."

By the attempt to shine light on cops breaking laws no doubt.

[Otto Partz]

The old breed didn't shoot dogs. Many of today's cops are full on pussies.

[Monty Crisco]

Well, I'm with Brian Statist-Cocksucker Mackey on this one. That dog TOTALLY deserved it. HE MADE AN OFFENSIVE MOVE, DIDN'T YOU SEE?!?!?
Let's face facts you fucking libertarian pussies: When you have four squad cars and eight cops sitting around hasslin and handcuffing people for shooting their mouths off, it's time for a doggy execution. And the fact that the guy was offering NO resistance whatsoever was a RUSE that the officers WISELY saw through - HE WAS SETTING THEM UP FOR A CHEAP SHOT!!! THE DOG WAS THE CHEAP SHOT!! THE DOG WAS THE GUY ON THE GRASSY KNOLL!!! But they didn't let him get away with that plan. No sir. They made *hee, hee* DOGGONE sure that he DIDN'T!!
Laugh with me, DUNPHY SOCKPUPPET!!!
BTW, you fucking tards - the NSA is NOT the IRS...
Just sayin'...

[timbo]

Cops are power hungry turds who have been canonized since 911. There have been numerous examples of them shooting dogs for no reason. If this dog was coming at me I might be scared too, but I would go to jail for having that gun on me to defend myself in the first place. That POS could have reacted by pushing the black guy in front of him rather than shooting the dog. The cop appears to be another stupid power hungry pig. He should be fired for arresting someone for doing nothing. Loud music in a car does not justify arrest.

[DenverJay]

Random thoughts/ almost a stream of conscious thing:
It has been getting worse and worse for many decades now. There are several reasons, I think. One obvious reason is the WOD. When you tell someone they are a "warrior" they are gonna act like a warrior. Another cause is entertainment media. Cop shows and movies convince both cops and citizens that tough guy, no shit-taking, loose cannons are the good guys. Then of course, our Federal government giving the boys military grade toys to play with. There were many asshole cops in past generations as well, but they weren't any better armed than the citizens around them, and fear is a great way to make people civil.
I have a small idea, but not sure if it is worth a damn: Most police chiefs are appointed, while sheriffs are elected. I wonder if sheriffs deputies, as a group, are less thugish than police officers? Personally, I haven't noticed much difference, probably because the people who vote for the Sheriff are all under the impression that the cops are the good guys, want a tough law and order guy, etc., see above. Interestingly enough, the group of LEOs who have always treated me the best was the State Patrol, but that may just be coincidence, since its been only a few times, and always concerning vehicular stuff on the Interstate.

[DenverJay]

Oh and I forgot to mention patrol cars. When cops walk a beat, they lose the feeling of safety that a patrol car gives, as well as putting them in a situation where they are forced to interact with the rest of society, instead of just being in the LEO echo chamber all day; only talking to other cops (or suspects), and only talking in "copese", which is the stupidest language ever invented, where you can't just say what you mean, but have to make it sound official, closely related to "bureaucratese".

[Estela]

Playing loud music is illegal. I don't know their exact noise ordinance but people are not allowed to park their cars and play loud music. You can play loud music inside your house and (in my town) between 7 and 10 pm, 12 on weekends. Anything else, you need a permit.
If they asked the man to turned down the music, why didn't he comply? Besides breaking the noise ordinance, he was obstructing the cop's work. They were in a hostage situation. If I were in a hostage situation, I would appreciate it if people let the cops do their job. There were plenty of other people filming, and nobody else got in trouble.
This guy was yelling, parading his dog, playing his loud music! At that moment, the street was a police scene. What was the point of him calling the cop's attention like that? The guy is a douche and his actions got his dog killed. A douche and an idiot, he couldn't even think of pulling up the windows.

[Brian Macker]

Yep, the police report on this is consistent with both the video and what you have said. Irrational ad hominems by cop haters not withstanding. Expect to be abused and threatened by the children now. That is if it isn't past their bed time.

[Anvil]

Rosby's actions led to the situation that got his dog killed, therefore Rosby indirectly killed his dog.

However, I do not condone the actions of the officer who shot the dog, since the situation did not require use of deadly force.

[myaskyler9]

until I saw the draft four $7371, I did not believe ...that...my mother in law could actually bringing home money part time on their laptop.. there moms best frend has been doing this for under twentey months and a short time ago cleared the debts on their place and got a brand new Renault 5. go to, Go to site and open Home for details
http://WWW.JOBS31.COM

[Hyperion]

I'm pissed right along with you. I'm really, really tired of this fucking shit.

Not many outside of our own little group know much about it.

You know, I never thought about it, and actually I never realized before I started watching Brazilian TV with my wife. But I don't think people in other countries know very much about the USA, at all. They all think it is the great free country where there is no corruption and surely not anything like an abusive police state. Apparently they get their USA news from CNN or MSNBC news and repeat it to the letter. Which gets me all frustrated when I have to tell my wife the real scoop, every time.

If we had a way to get some of these stories, from here on Reason, in the foreign press, so as to shame the US government world wide, then maybe that would have an effect. I don't know.

[some guy]

The younger proggies might be paying more attention than you think. This video was the top story on Reddit for awhile last night. Reddit is a well known haven for young proggies. They seem to hate the police over there as much as they hate rich people and gun owners.

[Libertymike]

There were people in the USSR whom I met in late 1984, winter of 1985 and again in late spring, early summer of 1986 who knew more about the real Lincoln than almost all H&R posters know now about him.

In under 15 weeks total time in Soviet Russia, I encountered at least half a dozen folks who would be branded as "neo-confederate, brainwashed commies".

Of course, they knew that they lived in a police state. They lived it every day. They also knew that americans tended to be ignorant of such things as Sand Creek, the raping of the Shenandoah Valley, the gulag known as Fort Washington, that Czar Alexander II freed the serfs without engaging in a bloodbath like dishonest abe and that America was hardly a bastion of individual liberty and free enterprise.

People all over the world hate empires hell bent on perpetual warfare / welfare empire building.

[Hank Phillips]

You are right. The LP is illegal in Brazil where looter backlash against the US-backed prohibitionist dictatorship resulted in an Italian-fascist crony constitution banning citizens from having guns, jobs, businesses, water, roads--you name it. The LP petition was torn up and shitcanned on grounds there are already 32 looter parties here and the LP would be subsidized by law (remember Nixon?). So the cops see their gringo role models killing that poor dog and rush out to murder a few teenagers a cop from the other precinct has sent out to distribute confiscated stimulants or weed. That was some damn good journalism and makes me proud to have returned as a subscriber.

[Hyperion]

Do you share this shit with your wife? How does she react?

Yes. And after 4 years she has now come to realize that American is no longer the great land of the free that it once was. It took me nearly that long to convince her. The idea that the US is the great land of freedom is hard coded into foreigners, except for the ones who think we are the great Satan, like Pakistan. Our image around the world is mostly undeserved, because people only know what they see on TV.

[Bryan C]

"It sure has been fun watching the people with the signs in Egypt telling us to wake up to fact that our government is actively supporting a facist regime."

Sadly the "news" most people actually watch - like Good Morning America - doesn't even bother to mention uncomfortable facts like that.

[Hyperion]

Where did they learn these things? There wasn't any intertoobs back then.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Czar Alexander II freed the serfs without engaging in a bloodbath like dishonest abe

Well, absolute monarchs do have absolute power. Nevertheless, Alexander II had more than enough blood on his hands. You think the South had it tough? What did Alex do to the Poles who wanted to leave the Empire? And just like Lincoln's assassination reversed many of the gains made by Southern Blacks via the Freedman's Bureau, the assassination of Alexander II lead to the draconian rule of Alexander III who crushed all reform and lead Russia into further despotism.

[VG Zaytsev]

Oh god, another neo-confederate dumb fuck.

[sgs]

"who knew more about the real Lincoln than almost all H&R posters know now about him"

You're a fucking idiot.

[Irish]

Here's a better idea. Don't cuff a guy for fucking video taping you.

[juris imprudent]

But the whole point of the fucking job is to be toughcopdoingatoughjobjusttryingtogethomesafe.

[Thane-kin]

Baby steps, Irish. Baby steps.

[Libertymike]

Well, for the most part, per my experience, the typical Russian was just far better read than the typical American. They were also far more intellectually curious and they were just more literate and could recite more facts and figures than the typical American.

I met Russians who counted such books as Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee and All the President's Men and Common Sense and To Kill a Mockingbird and Democracy in America and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich in their libraries (rather, wall to wall book shelves in their not so commodious apartments).

There was a flourishing black market for everything from dollars to Dallas, including books, music and other intellectual property. I exchanged gifts, including books and magazines, with several Russians.

But, yeah, how did people learn anything pre-tubes?

[Libertymike]

HM:

This here anarchist is not, has not and will not, evah, evah, portray Alexander II as anarcho-free enterprise-individualism personified. I would not even nominate him for honorable mention as despot of the year.

However, the fact remains: to argue that Alexander II was a monarch and so its no fair to compare him with Lincoln regarding the fact that Lincoln, and not the czar, chose the bloodbath and that Lincoln, and not the czar, chose to wage total war in which hundreds of thousands of civilians were deliberately killed,is to concede the point.

Lincoln was not forced to make war; he freely and voluntarily undertook it. There were no armies headed to Washington should Lincoln not make war on the south. He was not personally facing danger should he refuse to make war. Thus, the argument that it was easier for Alexander II to forsake mass murder than Lincoln is just downright silly.

Let us not forget that just because Alexander II was a nasty, murderous tyrant, it does not thereby follow that we should sanitize the war crimes of Abe Lincoln.

[fatshortandbald]

Exactly. Paperboy at twelve AND a mailman in my early twenties. Dozens of dogs came at me and dozens of dogs I backed the fuck away from.

Never once bitten.

[Brian Macker]

So your job as paperboy entailed dog owners screaming at you while holding a large rottweiler? Did it also require you to cuff abusive customers while you talk with them about where you threw the paper?

The bystander was acting irrationally and in a harassing fashion. He was screaming at police while holding a large dog. Did he expect the officers to have a conversation with him while they are doing their jobs under such circumstances? Of course they are going to need to approach him to find out what he wants and with his demeanor cuff him. There is no evidence they were arresting him. Could have just been restraining him for the conversation he instigated in a hostile way. Who tries to interact with police by screaming while holding a large dog, especially at what appears to be a crime scene.

[Generic Stranger]

However, the fact remains: to argue that Alexander II was a monarch and so its no fair to compare him with Lincoln regarding the fact that Lincoln, and not the czar, chose the bloodbath and that Lincoln, and not the czar, chose to wage total war in which hundreds of thousands of civilians were deliberately killed,is to concede the point.

Yeah...no, I'm pretty sure the Confederates decided that when they attacked Fort Sumter.

[Mensan]

The Confederates wouldn't have attacked Fort Sumter if the US hadn't left an occupation force in place in a sovereign foreign nation after they were told to leave.

[Careless]

Man, a lot of stupid replying to LibertyMike, who's not exactly the hardest poster to eviscerate. The problem is that this is one of his stopped clock moments.

[The Fatman]

Why won't you die in a fire? What do I have to do to make this happen? Although it might be better if you actually choked to death on that cop-cock you like to suck soooo much.

[Brendan]

The job does not require them to cuff people for yelling things at them. They could have ignored him and continued on with their job.

[sgs]

"The bystander was acting irrationally and in a harassing fashion. He was screaming at police while holding a large dog"

SO, behaving legally.

"Did he expect the officers to have a conversation with him while they are doing their jobs under such circumstances? "

No, we expect them to leave us the fuck alone and stop illegally assaulting us when we don't break the law, and you've admitted this guy didn't break the law.

[Free Society]

^this