Obama's Power to Identify Combatants Is the Power of Life and Death
Writing in The New York Times today, University of Notre Dame law professor Mary Ellen O'Connell notes her cameo appearance in the Justice Department white paper summarizing the legal rationale for killing Americans whom President Obama identifies as enemy combatants:
I was struck to find my name on Page 4 of the white paper, which summarized my argument that "the conflict between the United States and Al Qaeda cannot lawfully extend to nations outside Afghanistan in which the level of hostilities is less intense or prolonged than in Afghanistan itself."
The lawyers dismissed my view, arguing that "there is little judicial or other authoritative precedent" on the issue, since the nation is fighting a "transnational, non-state actor" where the "principal theater of operations" is not in a country in conflict with America.
These are more than legal quibbles.
Indeed. The question of what counts as a combat zone is closely tied to the question of who counts as a combatant and is therefore eligible for death by drone. Within the United States, the Obama administration treats terrorism as a crime, meaning that suspected terrorists have the same rights as other criminal defendants, including the right not to be killed without due process of law. But according to the Justice Department, if the suspected terrorist happens to be located in another country—in Pakistan, Yemen, or Somalia, say—he is subject to summary execution. Since the Authorization for the Use of Military Force that Congress approved after 9/11 "does not set forth an express geographic limitation," the white paper suggests, the president has the authority to kill people he believes to be members of Al Qaeda or allied groups wherever they may be found. O'Connell's analysis, which she developed in response to the "Global War on Terror" concept championed by George W. Bush, goes to the heart of such claims:
In an armed conflict, in the zone of hostilities, combatants may be targeted without warning or detained without trial. Such treatment is unlawful against persons engaging in violence in the absence of armed conflict. Armed conflict occurs when organized armed groups exchange protracted, intense, armed hostilities. The groups must be associated with territory. In addition to the concept of armed conflict, the concept of conflict zone is important. Killing combatants or detaining them without trial until the end of hostilities is consistent with the principles of necessity and proportionality, as well as general human rights, when related to a zone of actual armed hostilities. Outside such a zone, however, authorities must attempt to arrest a suspect and only target to kill those who pose an immediate lethal threat and refuse to surrender. Those arrested outside a conflict zone should receive a speedy trial on the basis of the evidence that has led to the arrest. There must be an evidentiary basis to charge a person with a crime—much more evidence than supports the right to detain an enemy combatant captured on an actual battlefield in a zone of combat.
By contast, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) thinks combatant status is in the eye of the beholder—and that beholder is the president, no one else. "The process of being targeted I think is legal," Graham says, "and should reside in the commander in chief to determine who an enemy combatant is and what kind of force to use." Since the power to determine who is a combatant is the power of life and death, Graham is saying he trusts the president with an unlimited license to kill. If Obama decided tomorrow that Graham is a combatant and marked him for death, that would be A-OK in Graham's book.
Back in 2007, when Barack Obama was running for president, The Boston Globe asked him, "Does the Constitution permit a president to detain US citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants?" Obama's response:
No. I reject the Bush Administration's claim that the President has plenary authority under the Constitution to detain U.S. citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants.
Evidently, however, Obama does think the president has plenary authority to kill U.S. citizens, as long as he does not detain them first.
O'Connell's 2010 congressional testimony on "Lawful Use of Combat Drones" is here.
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Amazing how this information might have been relevant, oh say, about four months ago.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/medi.....city-drone
US news organisations are facing accusations of complicity after it emerged that they bowed to pressure from the Obama administration not to disclose the existence of a secret drone base in Saudi Arabia despite knowing about it for a year.
Amid renewed scrutiny over the Obama administration's secrecy over its targeted killing programme, media analysts and national security experts said the revelation that some newspapers had co-operated over the drone base had reopened the debate over the balance between freedom of information and national security.
On Tuesday, following Monday's disclosure by NBC of a leaked Justice Department white paper on the case for its controversial targeted killing programme, the Washington Post revealed it had previously refrained from publishing the base's location at the behest of the Obama administration over national security concerns.
The New York Times followed with its own story on the drone programme on Wednesday, and an op-ed explaining why it felt the time to publish was now.
Nope. No bias here.
Why would information about a secret drone base used to conduct illegal executions of US citizens be important to know a year ago anyways?
What, was there some kind of election or something going on?
You people.
Nope. No bias here.
Come on, I'm sure they would have shown the same deference to Bush.
Nah, it wouldn't have mattered.
Free Shit is what matters.
Jesus. I assume Glenn Greenwald had an aneurysm this morning.
Obama's Power to Identify Combatants Is the Power of Life and Death
Well, he has promised to, "Take a scalpel to the budget," in the past, as well as promising, "If you like your doctor, you can keep him,". Not to mention his repeated use of "surgical" whence referencing Drone Therapy. Clearly, this man thinks he is some sort of surgeon.
I submit he and Michelle have been watching Malice on loop.
Obamacare:
"If you like your doctor, you can keep him [in chains]"
Evidently, however, Obama does think the president has plenary authority to kill them.
Dead people don't file habeas corpus writs.
I actually think Obama's been exceptional at habeas corpus. After all, he's produced a lot of corpses.
He did mention something about, "Corpsemen," once.
..."Since the power to determine who is a combatant is the power of life and death, Graham is saying he trusts the president with an unlimited license to kill. If Obama decided tomorrow that Graham is a combatant and marked him for death, that would be A-OK in Graham's book."...
Someone needs to remind Graham that we fought a war to get out from under a monarchy.
I hope the people of South Carolina gut that pig at the polls.
I'd like to see that on a billboard.
Gut that Pig at the Polls!
To be fair, Obama thinks he's the King, not the President.
Obama thinks he's Elvis?!?
Yeah, and he's pissed Michelle won't let him eat fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches.
He's even more angry at Bruce Campbell.
He better not mess with Bruce. The man has slaughtered legions of undead, drones will be no match for him.
No matter, how can just stand there and not exact revenge? Those undead were his voters!
Yes, exactly.
Evidently, however, Obama does think the president has plenary authority to kill U.S. citizens, as long as he does not detain them first.
Obama doesn't think 'the president' has that authority - he only believes that he has that authority. Witness the fact that he rushed to come up with some sort of rules of engagement only when he thought Romney might possibly be the one in the Oval Office at this point. Romney and his ilk are mere mortals who need rules to live by - Obama is a God King, l'etat c'est moi.
And that's part of the problem with understanding the issue here - you keep thinking that there is some sort of principle involved and you are dealing with people who have no principles. There is no contradiction in principle, for example, in excusing Obama for doing the exact same things Bush was condemned for doing when you have no principles.
Armed conflict occurs when organized armed groups exchange protracted, intense, armed hostilities. The groups must be associated with territory. In addition to the concept of armed conflict, the concept of conflict zone is important. Killing combatants or detaining them without trial until the end of hostilities is consistent with the principles of necessity and proportionality, as well as general human rights, when related to a zone of actual armed hostilities. Outside such a zone, however, authorities must attempt to arrest a suspect and only target to kill those who pose an immediate lethal threat and refuse to surrender. Those arrested outside a conflict zone should receive a speedy trial on the basis of the evidence that has led to the arrest.
Seems to pretty well cover it in my opinion. And I don't buy any kind of arugumenet that the whole fucking globe is the zone of conflict.
Simpleton.
"I pardon you."
I remember when Dick Nixon had Jane Fonda killed for going to Hanoi and how the press ate up his justifications.
She actually did take up arms against the US in a war zone in a country fighting the US. So killing her would be justified under Obama's rules. I wonder what the leftys think of that?
Is there a time limit? If not, Obama could drone Jane Fonda, even though that happened years ago, right?
Seconded! She's a witch! She's a witch!
I'm not advocating her droning; I'm just suggesting that, by Obama's reasoning, she's a potential droning designee.
Hell, by Obama's reasoning, pretty much anyone, anywhere, is. All he has to do is say so.
there's no statute of limitations and the whole world is a conflict zone.
she needs to get her ass to Mars.
Mars has attacked the Earth many times.
The probes are just gathering information so we can nuke the planet into a cold, sterile desert filed with giant volcanoes and canyons and craters.
We find rocks they've bombarded us with all the time. Soon, revenge will be ours, when we alter their atmosphere to suit our needs.
Weaponized terraforming is my favorite way to kill Grox. Why waste Planet Busters?
Top Men have considered the case carefully and currently recommend against drone processing a significant donor to the Party in power.
Well, they do claim the right to arbitrarily dispense drone process, so I suppose they can do that.
No. I reject the Bush Administration's claim that the President has plenary authority under the Constitution to detain U.S. citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants.
If the media didn't have its collective head so firmly in Obama's lap, this would be repeated ad nauseum since Anwar Al-Awlaki's death.
I would disagree with her that enemy combatant ceases to be one outside of a defined combat zone. Nations have been arresting and hanging spies and saboteurs outside of combat zones for centuries. She is right in the sense that you lose the ability to shoot them on sight like you have in combat. You have to try to arrest them. And indeed the memo even admitted as much by saying drone strikes were only legal if capture was impossible.
It really is a question of semantics. The only way that capture of the person would ever be impossible would be if the country where they were were supporting and hosting them. In that case, that country is committing an act of war against the United States.
Think of it this way. Evil terrorist A is operating his evil terror organization out of Country A. The US goes to country A and says "hey evil terrorist is planning attacks against us and is a wanted fugitive. Turn him over now". Country A then says no "we like evil terrorist and think what he is doing is great". At that point country A is effectively attacking the United States and in drone striking evil terrorist, the US is committing an act of war against Country A. The warzone is now Country A.
But suppose country A says "yeah evil terrorist is over there, come get him". In that case, the US is doesn't have any justification for an act of war against country A and will have to go arrest evil terrorist. I don't think the US can just go and drone strike him because it is easier.
That is the key point here, capture. It seems to me that one of two things has to be true,
1. The country where the person is refuses to turn them over in which case we are at war with said country and the conflict zone moves to that country, or
2. The country cooperates and gives the US a chance to capture, in which case capture is possible and the drone strike is not legal.
You mean the way the US refused to turn Hal Banks over to Canada so that he could be prosecuted?
Hal Banks as far as I know was a criminal. He wasn't waging war against Canada but instead was escaping Canadian justice. But if Hal were spending his spare time in the US figuring out ways to kill Canadians, yes, that would have been an act of war by the US.
And for the record, we committed an act of war against the UK when we allowed Shin Fein and the IRA to fund raise in the US.
The precise word it used was "infeasible." And it's clear from both the paper and the actions of the US government that they aren't defining "infeasible" the way that you are, John. There have definitely been operations within friendly or allied countries with their consent, where the US has "go[ne] and drone str[uck] him because it is easier."
Pakistan, Yemen, other places, it has definitely been a case of the countries saying "yeah, go and get him." And we certainly haven't arrested him.
Me, I always felt that visible detention like Gitmo was a necessary evil because the inevitable alternative was either secret prisons or killing people to prevent capture.
I think so. But I would consider NW Pakistan to be part of the combat area. NW Pakistan is nothing but what Cambodia was to Vietnam. We are effectively at war in Pakistan.
But the drone strikes in Yemen? Probably not. And we are doing them because we do not want to mess with trying them.
And indeed the memo even admitted as much by saying drone strikes were only legal if capture was impossible.
The memo says no such thing.
Then what does it say?
The white paper says that if the three criteria are met it's legal, but that it's possible that drone strikes could be legal without meeting those criteria, that the memo doesn't want to get into that.
Difference between "if this then legal" and "only if this then legal."
Okay fair enough. Pardon me for giving them too much credit.
The memo claims that it only applies to the conflict with you-know-who and its henchmen. This is the same cowardly move that appellate courts make when they know that the broader implications of their opinion lead to bad results. They state that the opinion is "limited to these particular facts". The Supreme Court did this in Bush v. Gore. Opinions and legal policies that apply only in special circumstances are generally a sign that political expediency has perverted justice.
That is also true with memos that are not dated or signed like this. How scummy is that? Oh we don't know who wrote this.