ABC News: Lead Homicide Investigator Did Not Buy George Zimmerman's Story

Jacob Sullum | 3.27.2012 7:20 PM

ABC News has more details about George Zimmerman's description of the fight that ended with Trayvon Martin's death. Zimmerman reportedly told police "he was heading back to his truck when Martin knocked him down with a punch to his nose, jumped on him, repeatedly banged his head on the ground, [and] then tried to grab Zimmerman's gun." This is the first confirmation I've seen that Zimmerman claimed Martin tried to grab his gun, which makes Zimmerman's claim that he feared for his life more plausible. But even if we believe everything Zimmerman said, it is still possible that Martin was responding to what he perceived as a potentially deadly threat from Zimmerman. ABC News says Chris Serino, "the lead homicide investigator," did not buy Zimmerman's story and wanted to charge him with manslaughter but was overruled by the state attorney's office.

[via Julian Sanchez's Twitter feed]

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EDG reppin' LBC 13 years ago

I thought we already settled this?
1. Pontius Pilate 13 years ago
  
  Nope. Zimmerman is not a real cop.
  This totally complicates things.
  Not to mention the fact that he didn't shoot a dog.*
  
  *To our knowledge. Stay tuned.
Apatheist ?_?? 13 years ago

Wow some real bitch slaps from Scalia here:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03.....ot-stupid/

JUSTICE SCALIA: You could solve that problem by simply not requiring the insurance company to sell it to somebody who has a ? a condition that is going to require medical treatment, or at least not ? not require them to sell it to him at ? at a rate that he sells it to healthy people. But you don't want to do that.
1. Apatheist ?_?? 13 years ago
  
  Their argument is that government created a problem that only more government can solve. Fuck me it's so blatant.
2. Jeffersonian 13 years ago
  
  Add to that the undeniable fact that cost-shifting is rampant because of three federal causes - Medicare, Medicaid and EMTALA - and what you have is the federales claiming they need virtually unlimited power to undo the gigantic mess they've made by making the mess even larger.
  1. Proprietist 13 years ago
    
    However, the counter-argument is to imagine how expensive health insurance would be for everyone if it were covering people 65 and older. Technically those programs probably keep insurance prices down. The question is whether the taxes we pay make up for the difference?
Realist 13 years ago

"ABC News: Lead Homicide Investigator Did Not Buy George Zimmerman's Story"
So?
1. TELLMOFF 13 years ago
  
  If "Martin's response to what he perceived as a potentially deadly threat from Zimmerman" was to punch him, this kid was cranked-up on drugs.
R C Dean 13 years ago

The questions just multiply. How did Trayvon know there was a gun to grab for? Had Zimmerman already pulled it?

Or is Zimmerman's just-so story suffering from more embroidery?
1. Sevo 13 years ago
  
  There is exactly *one* living person who knows what went on, and that person has *every* incentive to justify his activities.
  That doesn't make him wrong, but it suggests that any of his statements need a large helping of salt.
  1. Anarchist 13 years ago
    
    There is exactly *one* living person who knows what went on
    
    Yup. All the better reason to have private police and juries and hangin' parties.
    Fo' the peepul's juztiz!
2. SIV 13 years ago
  
  Note the sequence:
  
  "he was heading back to his truck when1 Martin knocked him down with a punch to his nose,2 jumped on him,3 repeatedly banged his head on the ground, [and] then4 tried to grab Zimmerman's gun."
  
  From the above hearsay it appears the gone didn't make an appearance until well into the assault.
  1. SIV 13 years ago
    
    "the gun"
  2. Sudden 13 years ago
    
    Yeah, one would think it unlikely that someone would engage in fisticuffs with a man armed with a pistol.
    
    Do we have any idea what the gun used in this case was?
    1. SIV 13 years ago
      
      Reportedly a 9mm auto pistol.
    2. Mensan 13 years ago
      
      Kel-Tek PF-9
      1. SIV 13 years ago
        
        He's lucky it didn't misfire!
        
        R 13 years ago
        
        It did apparently jam, though it's unclear as to exactly why.
        
        brendan 13 years ago
        
        It jammed because it's a Kel-tec.
  3. TELLMOFF 13 years ago
    
    This isn't hearsay. This is Zimmerman's testimony.
    1. Dan 13 years ago
      
      No. It is:
      
      1. A news report
      2. from an anonymous leaker
      3. about a police summary
      4. of Zimmerman's testimony.
      
      Heck, you'd need to get rid of half those steps to *improve* it to the level of "hearsay". 🙂
SIV 13 years ago

via Julian Sanchez's Twitter feed

You guys really need to stop relying on reporting from liberal pussies.
1. SIV 13 years ago
  
  HaHa! I didn't see the other link is Weigel. See my admonition above.
2. ? 13 years ago
  
  There are probably a handful of non-racist liberal pussies they could go to, if going to liberal pussies is what they think they're obliged to do (and obviously they do think that).
  
  But Sullum seems to really like Sanchez's wetback-derangement stories.
3. Proprietist 13 years ago
  
  Yeah, Reason, you should only get your sources from red-blooded conservatives on SIV's team, not civil libertarians.
From the Desk of Me 13 years ago

Manslaughter sounds like a win-win.
Realist 13 years ago

How about a recent picture or does "Reason" have an agenda?
1. HeroicMulatto 13 years ago
  
  An actual recent picture or the fake one?
  1. Realist 13 years ago
    
    You know which one asshole. It was posted by someone in response to your bullshit from the last article.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012.....von-photo/
    
    It's the one your lefty dickwad friends had to apolgize for.
    1. HeroicMulatto 13 years ago
      
      You know which one asshole.
      
      Feisty are we? Sorry your sacred cows are getting slaughtered. Just relax and enjoy the steak.
      
      So what's the point? I don't see too much that's different in the picture except he's a little older.
      
      It's the one your lefty dickwad friends had to apolgize for.
      
      You have no idea who my friends are, nor whether they are "lefty" and/or dickwads. Besides, what is there to apologize for in the picture?
      1. Meh. 13 years ago
        
        Don't you get it? He's bigger, blacker, and meaner in the picture Realist linked to.
        
        HeroicMulatto 13 years ago
        
        Don't you get it? He's bigger, blacker, and meaner in the picture Realist linked to.
        
        Ah. I see. I guess it's like comparing a picture of a baby tiger to an adult one. How silly of me!
        
        JeremyR 13 years ago
        
        Or just older. He was 17, not 12 as shown in most of the pictures the media uses.
        
        He doesn't look particularly fierce in the later one, indeed, he can't even grow a mustache. But it is closer to reality...
        
        Clovis 13 years ago
        
        There are always certain steps followed when a youth dies.
        
        1. Photo at 10 years old in Sunday best.
        2. Youth was well-loved in the community.
        3. Posthumous promotion to honor student.
        
        Sidd Finch 13 years ago
        
        He was turning his life around.
        
        SIV 13 years ago
        
        Never be "turning your life around". Surest way to end up dead in a Churches Fried Chicken* parking lot. I learned this from watching Channel 2 news back home in the ATL.
        
        *(Don't think you're safe "turning your life around" at Mrs Winners either)
        
        hh485 13 years ago
        
        4. Was planning to attend college.
        
        Dan 13 years ago
        
        He's "blacker" in the new picture? How do you figure?
Alice Bowie 13 years ago

I wish the cops did a better investigation and had published all of these things that have been dripping out for a month now.

Perhaps if they came straight out with everything, Martin's father would not have gone on the Al Shapten show.

Black people are going to be real real upset once the obvious happens here.

Whether morally right or wrong, Zimmerman did nothing illegal.

What gets me is that i the cops will arrest me for a $5 bag of weed but are forbidden to arrest or prosecute me once i make a statement to bubba the southern cop after shooting a minor.
1. NBPP 13 years ago
  
  Life be cheap in da gated hood.
2. Realist 13 years ago
  
  Right....you sound very impartial.
TheZeitgeist 13 years ago

My guess is - and it's a total guess here - Zimmerman knew that family from his 'patrols' and was irate this el negro (the Dad) was shacked up with a white chick (his fiance) in his neighborhood. Don't know if fiance is white chick, but I'd bet money she is from media absence (black chicks hate that shit more than anybody...doesn't help Al Sharpton cohesion at all).

And Zim's the kid who was Hall Monitor in high school - loves being Mr. Buttinsky in everyone's business. Probably couldn't be real cop so he plays one in his neighborhood. Bet that gun was burning hole in his pocket to wave it around like $100 in a tween's jeans at the mall.

So he gets Buttinsky with this kid, makes melodrama (you know how cop-types are...same psychology here) then lil' fattie finds his ass getting beat and blows Trayvon away to save himself from losing a fight he started.

That's my two cents.
1. Realist 13 years ago
  
  Shit you pull out of your ass ain't worth two cents.
  1. TheZeitgeist 13 years ago
    
    Its still likely.
2. HeroicMulatto 13 years ago
  
  My guess is - and it's a total guess here - Zimmerman knew that family from his 'patrols' and was irate this el negro (the Dad) was shacked up with a white chick (his fiance) in his neighborhood.
  
  HUH? Zimmerman is from a multi-racial Hispanic family, with family members who are Black. According to said family members, he's never had any problem with them.
  
  There is enough that's reprehensible about Zimmerman's actions that one doesn't need to make up bullshit.
  1. TheZeitgeist 13 years ago
    
    Like I said, a total guess. But something was driving an insecurity or some-such in Zimmerman. It always does with characters like that.
3. JeremyR 13 years ago
  
  Actual scenario:
  
  Wannabe Thug meets Wannabe Cop. All too predictable result.
  1. shamalam 13 years ago
    
    Yep.
  2. SIV 13 years ago
    
    Trayvon's thug career was cut short and Zimmerman will never get a law enforcement job. WIN! WIN!
    1. TheZeitgeist 13 years ago
      
      +1
4. shamalam 13 years ago
  
  So, you have two guesses:
  
  1. Zimmer had a grudge against Trayvon's father (El Negro).
  2. Trayvon's father was "shacked up" with a white chick.
  
  and your implication:
  Zimmer was a racist and resented Trayvon because of 1 and 2, above.
  
  That's a whole lot of guesswork! I think you should proceed straight to the grand jury with all that evidence.
Sidd Finch 13 years ago

But even if we believe everything Zimmerman said, it is still possible that Martin was responding to what he perceived as a potentially deadly threat from Zimmerman.

As my TV has informed me thousands of times, Zimmerman suspected Martin of being up to no good because he's black. Is it not just as likely that Martin perceived Zimmerman a "potentially deadly threat" because he's mestizo?
1. peter A 13 years ago
  
  Exactly. I've watched enough "Breaking Bad" to realize that Mexicans are trying to kill me.
  1. Sidd Finch 13 years ago
    
    Perhaps you should watch less "Breaking Bad." It's apparently making you retarded.
    1. Proprietist 13 years ago
      
      I think he was being sarcastic.
The Real Mary Stack 13 years ago

Hi everybody!
shrike 13 years ago

Are you thinking what we're thinking?
1. Realist 13 years ago
  
  No!
F Hart 13 years ago

He said, she said. Or should I say, he said, he said, again.

Zimmerman broke one of the cardinal 'rules' of Neighborhood watch, actually two.

1) Never approach a suspicious person

2) Never carry a gun, even if it is legal.

So, that makes Zimmy at the very least, negligent in his "duties". Extreme negligence that results in the death of another can be considered criminally negligent homicide.

Was his negligence extreme? I don't know. Sounds like something a jury should decide.

http://www.local10.com/news/Po.....index.html
1. wareagle 13 years ago
  
  I never got the part about his being armed, either. Yes, I know he had a concealed carry permit, but carrying was never a part of community watch. It's about, um, watching. So far, two things that seem incontrovertible:
  1) this did not have to happen
  2) this will not end well
  1. hh485 13 years ago
    
    3) a whole lotta jackasses will try as hard as they can to use Trayvon's death for their own purposes
2. NickM 13 years ago
  
  The "rules" of Neighborhood Watch programs are established for the self-protection of the watcher. They don't create any duty toward anyone else.
  
  That makes you, at the very least, clueless and wrong.
3. shamalam 13 years ago
  
  I don't think "neighborhood watch" is mentioned in the law at all.
4. Dan 13 years ago
  
  The idea that carrying a gun automatically qualifies as "negligence" has no legal or rational basis.
  1. Cyto 13 years ago
    
    Confronting someone unknown, alone, at night for dubious reasons while carrying a gun is pretty much the definition of negligence. His actions created the situation that ended in the kid's death.
    
    You don't need malice, racism or any other evil intent to end up here. Just bad judgement on the part of Zimmerman in exiting the car and following the kid on foot while carrying a weapon. Although it sounds like a mistake that many on HnR might make in their own neighborhood, the fact that it ended in someone getting killed raises the stakes of the error from "damn, that was pretty dumb; why the hell did you do that?" to "Nice job, you just committed manslaughter."
    
    He'd have been better off carrying a nice camera and staying in the car.
    1. nomad 13 years ago
      
      Confronting someone unknown, alone, at night for dubious reasons while carrying a gun is pretty much the definition of negligence.
      
      There is nothing dubious, criminal or negligent about watching or following a stranger in one's own neighborhood, or even asking the stranger who he is and what he is doing. Being aware of the comings and goings of strangers is probably the most effective means of reducing crime in a neighborhood, particularly if the bad guys know they are being watched. If Zimmerman used force or threats of force, that would be illegal. But there is no evidence that Zimmerman did initiate the conflict via force or threats.
      
      Unless you can show that Zimmerman used force or threats of force, then Zimmerman was neither negligent nor guilty of manslaughter.
      
      BTW, the fact that he was (legally) carrying a concealed gun seems pretty much irrelevant.
Tone Are 13 years ago

George Zimmerman :: The New White
http://mybrotherman.wordpress......new-white/
1. wareagle 13 years ago
  
  see story from Miami above. So glad race hustlers like you are getting involved. But keep talking about the need for "a conversation" because a non-black shooting a black happens so often.
  1. Realist 13 years ago
    
    Exactly, blacks don't need to worry about being shot by whites. Blacks need to worry about being shot by blacks.
bagoh20 13 years ago

What, you couldn't find a photo of Martin as an infant with his teddy bear under a painting of Jesus. If you can't be fair about it put a photo of chicks wrestling. At least that would have something to do with this story.
IceTrey 13 years ago

Martin punched Zimmerman in the nose from behind? Exactly how does that work?
1. Dan 13 years ago
  
  And in which part of the description does it say Zimmerman was punched from behind?
  
  Go ahead and re-read the article; we'll wait.
  1. DesigNate 13 years ago
    
    In like, 4 different threads I read today someone mentioned Martin attacking Zimmerman from behind.
Occupy Trayvon 13 years ago

The protestors need a good mob-inciting slogan.

How about No blood for Skittles?
East Bay Jay 13 years ago

Once those baby blue Skittles came out this was inevitable.
Johnny Watts 13 years ago

Someone just always has to emerge form a crack and make a big ole "Black Thang" out of it!

http://www.Anon-Works.tk

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ABC News: Lead Homicide Investigator Did Not Buy George Zimmerman's Story

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